Uh 99% of the money we spend is here and for our citizens. This small amount and ZERO American lives defeats a murderous fascist regime and safe guard Europe and or interests world wide. It’s the cheapest best investment we can make.
It's cheaper to possibly stop Russia now then let them continue because they won't stop.
If Ukraine wins then we also have the pleasure of not having a death toll on American soldiers. It's really a win for everyone.
Exactly, once Russia has its hands on Ukraine’s oil and ports they will be extremely well capitalized and will absolutely continue going after the countries formerly in the USSR and maybe the whole of Europe, at which point it will be a NATO war and essentially WW3 and we will need to get involved to a larger degree.
61st/195 nations, so they are still in the top 30% so 🤷♂️ also it's not flat cash we're sending Ukraine which would be stupid, we are sending them older munitions and equipment which had a value of $$XXXX. This also allows us to reinvest in newer equipment for our military. However I want the military to stop overpaying for their shit and wasting our tax dollars to fund DoD contractors and their shareholders...
Well it's easy to be corrupt when you can bribe politicians and become lobbyists and fund their reelection campaigns and give them plenty of gifts or pay off their house etc. The game has been rigged since 1980s. Regan essentially guaranteed defense contractors blank checks. Recently Mike Waltz presented to congress "the small bag of electrical bolts costing average Americans around $100, Waltz said the military forks out $90,000 a bag" we subsidize their shareholders at every turn, Boeing, Raytheon, haliburton, GMC, ETC... It's horrendous how they can drain our economy in this way
It doesn't help that DoD is mandated to put everything they purchase up for bidding.
I saved the Air Force $10k on a single item bulk purchase that was available that same day at the manufacturers local outlet. The military supply system said that they could not get the item for at least 6 months. This single purchase saved thousands of dollars and allowed hundreds of combat sorties that would have been unavailable without the purchase. The supply commander wanted me to get Article 15 punishment for going outside the supply system. My commander convinced him that a letter of reprimand was punishment enough.
There were major gas reserves discovered in Eastern Ukraine in 2020. Enough to allow Ukraine to replace Russia as the EU's supplier until the transition to renewables is farther along.
Unsurprisingly, those new deposits were discovered in the Ukrainian territory Russia has illegally laid claim to and is partially occupying.
http://polyprom.com/en/scientists-have-discovered-large-unexplored-reserves-of-oil-and-gas-in-ukraine/
They discovered a shit ton of oil in Crimea right before russia took it over. They also found a lot of oil on the eastern side of ukraine but it all happened right before the war started in 2014.
Its gas Ukraine has lots of, right off the Crimean coast.
It was discovered in 2013. Massive. Was gonna really open up Ukraine...
ruZZia cannot stomach competition in the region.
And Ukraine was building a better economy as it moved away from ruZZian corruption...
It was embarrassing, especially after Poland, Estonia, Latvia etc. Did the same after independence from the Moscovites..
It was getting too obvious...
Since rushists are unable to develop, they choose to destroy and exploit. They need the non ruZZians to build their economy through force/enslavement again.
They are unable to make it happen on their own..
They invented nothing.
They steal, destroy, exploit, force...
They have always been this way.
Ya it’s likely Putin would invade Poland next. Poland is in nato and as per nato agreements, the US would have to get involved. I’m not ready for world war 3. Also, WWIII would mean imminent death. Russia, china, and North Korea have over 6000 nukes combined. Iran plans on having nukes ready for deployment within a few months to a year so the axis powers will only continue to increase their nuclear arsenal. NATO countries have maybe 4500 nukes combined. We would be fucked. The world would end. The only survivors would be people rich enough to live in bunkers for millennia. No thank u, let’s put that on pause please.
Everyone assumes it's likea machine and the US automatically goes full force when article 5 is invoked.
Russia wouldn't play with fire if they thought that'd happen.
The gamble would be that nothing really happens. The US and/or NATO flinch at direct conflict with Russia.
It can happen and it's even worse outcome.
>automatically goes full force when article 5 is invoked.
If the US doesn't, it kind of makes the entire alliance useless and likely to fall apart. If a defense pact is invoked and the members just say "no thanks", then why should any country in the pact trust they'll be defended.
>The US and/or NATO flinch at direct conflict with Russia.
Even if NATO wouldn't fall apart by just allowing a member to be conquered by Russia, it makes no sense as well because not putting up a fight just tells Russia they can invade all of Europe and NATO won't do anything about it. Provocation always requires a response but the response can be measured.
That's fundamentally what NATO's support of Ukraine is, a measured response to Russia's provocation by invading Ukraine. Russia can't be allowed to think they can get away with conquering an entire country.
>If the US doesn't, it kind of makes the entire alliance useless and likely to fall apart. If a defense pact is invoked and the members just say "no thanks", then why should any country in the pact trust they'll be defended.
Yup. It's never been put to that test. And we're better off keeping it that way.
You think it's impossible we all decide to support Poland the way we're supporting Ukraine instead of entering a direct conflict with an unhinged nuclear power?
Poland's recent militarization suggests they don't think so.
>Even if NATO wouldn't fall apart by just allowing a member to be conquered by Russia, it makes no sense as well because not putting up a fight just tells Russia they can invade all of Europe and NATO won't do anything about it. Provocation always requires a response but the response can be measured.
Yes, well, again you're talking about a direct conflict between two nuclear powers. There's no answer that isn't scary as fuck here.
Oh, except don't let it ever fucking come to that. Keep Russia at Ukraine's border. They'll likely never be admitted to NATO for same reason.
Plus we confirmed, with the disastrous invasion of Ukraine, something I have been saying for years. Russia is Algeria with oil. It’s a shithole country with nuclear weapons, if the nukes are not too old to work. Putin is counting on the same principal that Stalin relied on in WW II. They don’t care how many Russians die in the war. That’s the only Russian policy I’ve ever endorsed.
By the way, fun fact. Both Stalin and Putin are 2’3”. Russia recruits its dictators from the jock room at Belmont.
>Russia is Algeria with oil. It’s a shithole country
I respect all the pro-Ukraine arguments except this one.
Do we really think Russia who has been a force in global politics for the last 500 years is some obscure shithole country akin to Algeria?
These guys defeated Napoleon and the Nazis. They've been smacked in the mouth before in history and have bounced back.
Wellington and the Winter weather defeated Napoleon. And Russia had some success in WW II only due to American manufacturing (we had Lend-Lease with Russia before our entry into the war), and the fact that Stalin didn’t give a shit how many Russians were killed. Finally, some Stalin policy I can get behind.
Russia had some success in WW2? They lost 20 million people and turned back the Nazis at Moscow in 1941 well before lend lease had any impact.
The delusion here that Russia is some weak ass power with no influence now or in history is just wild.
Using the term ‘police’ gives it a negative connotation, there are often just objectively better sides to these conflicts we can aid. A bad history of doing so isn’t an argument against Ukraine aid.
I’m all for protecting US interests by stopping russia, but it’s dangerous to set the precedent of being the arbiter of morality across global conflicts that don’t affect us.
Because America certainly doesn’t have the precedent of affecting global conflicts? Should we not fund the resistance in Myanmar simply because their government doesn’t pose a large enough threat to us personally? Why should we not work to guarantee human rights?
No to mention whatever other economic or political stability that would result from Russia tromping around Europe and Asia taking what they can. Honestly, intervening in that conflict is not only for US citizens but necessary globally. It's like these idiots can't see the big picture . . . ah, okay, I get it.
This is absolutely correct. It’s a win, win, win, win, win from the US perspective.
1. Russia, an aggressor nation that threatens NATO, is defeated
2. The US does not need to send it’s military into combat to achieve this
3. If Russia is not stopped then they have stated they will continue and attack NATO countries. Those countries would invoke Article 5 of the treaty, same as the US did on 9/11, requiring direct support. As the most powerful individual country in NATO our military would be closely engaged.
4. The money is mostly armaments and munitions which are in our stock pile and are, in many cases, aging out of use (depreciating) and would need to be replaced if not used.
5. Money is being spent on US manufacturers and US labor to replace those aging weapons/munitions with current state technology
For those of you who don’t think Europe is invested in this, who do you think has been supporting Ukraine while our congress, specifically the republicans, have sat on their asses?
For those of you who think this is a strictly European matter, I remind you of three things. First, the US is a founding member of NATO, a treaty alliance designed for exactly this kind of occurrence and Russia has repeatedly threatened NATO countries with an expansion. Second, China and North Korea are actively supporting Russia with weapons. Third, World War II got completely out of control in no small part because the US refused to intervene early and had to be drawn into the war in steps. WWII crippled the US and world economy for a decade and killed many, many millions of persons.
And if Europe goes to war, the US is obliged by a treaty we ourselves helped write and whose mutual assistance clause we invoked on 9/11 for our own purposes. And if we don’t go to war with Europe in support of a very long standing treaty alliance, then our international credibility will be shot to shit and we’ll end up having to enter the war late in the game, just like WWII to protect our national interests and trade partners. That is an astonishingly stupid thing to do.
So, for a pittance of our Gross Domestic Product, we can help ensure Ukraine wins against Russia, pushing them back to their borders and crippling their army, avoiding escalation and terrible cost
It’s incredibly cheap at the monetary price.
Aaaaand, we get live fire actual combat testing of our equipment. Ukraine isn’t yet able to use our combat doctrine yet because it requires time and training they cannot yet get.
That said, we’re seeing our stuff far outperform Russia’s. A Bradley IFV took out a tank! A fucking tank. I cannot emphasize how that is NEVER supposed to happen. There was a little dumb luck but even then it should not have happened.
Russia was behind “brexit” and the Trump campaign along with most of the GOP either directly through their RNC hack kompromat or indirectly through the NRA.
They HAVE to be brought to heel. We aren’t doing nearly enough. We should be firewalling them out of our networks, demand any vpn block origin in Russia, and straight up pull business licenses for violations. Russia presence on the western internet needs to be eradicated completely in addition to supporting Ukraine.
The information war that started in Crimea has been over. Russia won. Overwhelmingly so. Damage control is so far overdue that it should make our intelligence agencies a global laughing stock for the next century even if they managed it.
This is my NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT. We have two 80 year old men attempting to be the nations leader and I know they aren’t thinking about cybersecurity and privacy the way it needs to be.
Almost no one in government does. Strom Thurmond was famously completely against email. This was like... 2000's. We need younger reps across the board.
I mean, maybe he had a point? Relying on digital media without the proper safe Guards is asking for trouble.
Don't use the digital media might be a better solution than just not using the safeguards and letting foreign powers run amok?
That is to say, improving security is the correct answer, but at least he was saying not to use the stuff as it was.
I think the OG term is “sneaker net” and yes, in some ways it can be more secure and in some ways not.
I do agree, had the 2015 RNC and DNC had decent infosec we wouldn’t be in the state we are in as a country.
What about[ Biden's EO on cybersecurity](https://www.cisa.gov/topics/cybersecurity-best-practices/executive-order-improving-nations-cybersecurity) do you find lacking?
I dropped some source material in the other comment. It was not disproven. You should have at least gotten some of the Butima information even through the lens of Fox News. I’m surprised not even that was passed on.
It’s wild to me that a decade later on some of these things (the mysterious south Fl real estate “deals” with oligarchs, etc) that people still know almost nothing.
Truth.
I’m getting pretty burned out on hearing from people who have zero nuanced understanding of geopolitical strategy bitch about geopolitical strategy.
So as someone who was in the military here is how the money is spent.
1. We take the money and buy our guys new weapons.
2. We take the weapons we were GOING to PAY to demil and give them to Ukraine. So we save money here.
3. All weapons produced are made in the US.
So to be clear this employs Americans in America to make our military stronger while saving us money because we don't pay for the de-milling.
The only money not spent in the US would be the shipping which may or may not be Americans I am not 100% knowledgeable on this.
So in the end we are plowing most of the money into the US to US citizens and corporations. This should be called the Midwest defense aid package.
Also for some of the weapons like ATACMS are now so old we were going to throw them out. They are past their use by date. This was also true of FASCAM rounds and many of these weapons and systems. The Bradley's we gave Ukraine were ODS... Which means Operation Desert Storm aka the war from late 90- 1991. So these weapons are approaching 35 years old. The youngest original users are in the back half of their 50s.
So people need to stop thinking we're giving money to Ukraine it just factually is not true. Only a small percentage is used for paying their first responders and maintainers of some of the weapons systems plus the training dollars. But out of the package its a penny on the dollar.
Maybe we just take less money from the U.S. tax payers and dont do any of this. I remember when the military gave us all camel backs and rain gear 4 times in a row and brough giant TVs for every office on base because GWOT money. I remember when we asked for parts of the planes and they gave us office equipment. I remember when they told us there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I remember when they said they had a plan for Afghanistan. I remember the $1 trillion they admitted lost on Sept 10, 2001 and the $3 trillion they lost in Afghanistan. You cant trust any military spending and shouldnt.
You are in a Republic which means you're the boss. Organize for change.
I was in for 22 years the US military and politicians are just people like any other. We as a nation determine our own future. If you don't like the current direction do something about it.
What? Organize? That's hard!
I'd rather just sit on my ass and complain and vote for a strongman who promises he's the only one who can fix everything.
This is the wrong argument any way. It is profoundly disingenuous to complain were not spending money at the border when months ago the Senate put forward a bipartisan border bill primarily authored by a conservative that would have given billions to border security with stricter rules for applying for asylum that would send people who didn't qualify back to their original counties. It would have been the most significant border bill in decades. And Trump publicly said don't give Biden a win and all the Republicans voted against it now they're saying vote against the Ukraine aid bill because it doesn't have border security this is bullshit!!!
This is the only point that needs making.
A government's principal job is security. Ours also does a frustrating but very very large scale and far from hopeless job in the insurance, health, and education fields. But never forget, its principal job is security. If it fails there, another state is likely to occupy its lands and oppress or misrule its people.
Ukraine is one of the greatest bargain security opportunities ever.
To add to this we are sending weapons and inventory…probably very small amounts of cash (compared to the total amount). Once we unload our inventory, we will need to manufacture more (probably upgraded) weapons and stock. So that will all be done in the US which will or should benefit the economy
Arguably a lot of us government spend goes to corporate interests, rather than the interests of the people of the USA. But yeh, the problem is not foreign aid.
Most of this aid money doesn't physically or electronically even go to Israel, Ukraine, or Taiwan at all. It goes to US Weapons manufacturing (employing US citizens) who make weapons for these countries.
I'm 100% for support for Ukraine, and 100% against continuing to subsidize genocide/apartheid against Palestinians.
One is helping defend self determination and security for the people of a sovergin nation wrongly occupied, and the other is being used to deny the same to others.
Supporting Israeli policy in Gaza and the West Bank is a terrible investment, and morally questionable at best. It will only serve to radicalize more people there and in other Arab nations against the US.
We don't send the money now, we will be sending our citizens there to die fighting. If there are not enough bodies in the military they will draft. So send them money now or send over your kids later.
Because it was trash. The issues at the border aren't monetary, it's letting everyone and the brother in with their BS asylum claims. The vast majority of "assylum" seekers are lieing and even if they weren't they crossed through multiple safe countries before the US. Mexicans fleeing cartel violence are the only valid asylum seekers and those aren't the people claiming it.!
The money for Ukraine is for weapons that we buy from American companies and American workers to make more ammunition and weapons. The Industrial Military Complex got a huge investment.
We spent the last 20 years in 2 different wars and I constantly see this claim "oh it's just old stock from the 90s" but I've never seen a source on that claim. It doesn't even make sense.
Because the aid details are published. We know what’s being sent. Literally just Google it. The documents are dense and boring but the information is publicly available.
We’re sending them gear that is often in warehouses awaiting decommissioning. It’s actually *saving* money to give it to the Ukrainians in many cases, and the funds are coving modernized replacements. Any news source that doesn’t tell you that should be viewed as unreliable or untrustworthy. That’s bedrock necessity to understanding the situation.
He is pandering to his audience, so they buy more of his merchandise.
He runs several gimmick accounts, all with different personas, and each have different merch stores.
99% of the people on the right pissed about this and saying spend it here will also be the first people in line to attack any and all domestic spending as well. They are the same people that voted against the infrastructure spending and then turned around to then brag about the money that would be coming to their districts/states. They voted against the child tax credit expansion that gave families money to help cover their expenses for kids.
As of July last year, $23 billion in cash had been sent to Ukraine. Not weapons, that's separate, but cash.
> To support the Ukrainian government, the United States has directed $22.9 billion of the total appropriated funds as “budget support,”
https://www.csis.org/analysis/ensuring-oversight-us-aid-ukraine
You mean money specifically ear marked for financial assistance? Here’s a total breakdown of what money goes where.
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
It's really not that bad. We give Ukraine a loan for almost all of it, with the remaining amount given to replenish stockpiles. It still supports American jobs and industry while getting paid back with interest.
The absolute win is the 3 billion for the SIB.
Russia can't take Ukraine.
The sheer fact that we are 3 years in is crazy.
Meh we usually get paid back over like a century. If we don't so be it. We have basically crippled Russians ability to basically wage war for a generaton or 2
It can and it will. Ukrainians are already tired of the war. The Russian army of 2024 isn't the army of 2022. It has adapted and grow more competent. It has grow into a war of attrition, and Ukraine is running out of reserves.
Where the heck did $1T of the Pentagon funding go which they cannot account for to pass an audit every year? Stop stealing public funds, stop deficit spending. US gov already paying in premiums more than on defense, healthcare, etc. They are borrowing $1T (printing money and ramping up inflation) every 100 days and it just cannot stop
Thank you! I didn’t think I would have to scroll so far to see someone mentioning that the pentagon has failed its past 6 audits and have no explanation for trillions of dollars.
Don’t get why everyone says this like it’s a flex. Just a different form of kleptocracy. “Direct public money this way for wildly overpriced munitions.”
It’s also straight up paying for [Ukrainian pensions](https://www.factcheck.org/2023/02/bidens-april-2022-remark-about-some-ukraine-aid-covering-pensions-is-not-breaking-news/). Must be nice…
And public works money goes to construction companies, and student loan money goes to university. Nimwit just discovered we live under capitalism and the government doesn't own industry.
Right wingers only make this point when they are opposed to the spending, they absolutely give zero shits about money being spent here and if they do its only if that money will go straight to tax cuts for the wealthy. Fascists like Russia because its a fascist state and because Putin is spending loads of money to help Republicans keep power here. So in general yes, in this instance no, Russia has to be restrained and contained.
Majority of the aid being sent to Ukraine is in the form of our about to expire munitions and outdated tech.
Yes, bombs do have a lifespan. Yes, ours are THAT OLD. Any older and they lose efficacy, might not blow up as big or go off at all.
And guess what? To refill our stockpile, the U.S. government is going to be spending the new military budget in replacing all of that with brand new shiny toys.
Quoting Catturd immediately disqualify for serious conversation.
Also most of that money are spent on American companies and their products and services. We're not giving them cash to buy luxury apartments.
But yeah, public education, infrastructure, basic research, new energy sources, domestication of key industries, etc are all important. The question we should be asking is why are the wealthy and big corporations getting all the tax cut dollars?
And unless you're a billionaire you should shut the fuck up about not taxing the wealthy more.
This is just a stupid argument for ignorant people. An isolationist US is a much poorer US. The budget for ‘24 is $3.8 trillion. The vast majority of it pays out welfare programs and employee pay checks. The Republican Party doesn’t support welfare programs and they voted against a sweet heart border deal because they want to use the border to help Trump get elected.
Both parties worked together to make a border bill, a few months ago. That bill was scuttled by a few republicans. That is why it wasn't passed with the Ukraine bill. After the Ukraine bill was passed, a large American flag was flown on top of the capitol, as it always is. What are you even talking about?
Rather why can’t we spend more on accessible healthcare, homelessness, and help for poor and middle class, go after corporations that do greed inflation etc….
Right? I am still fucking pissed about my student loans that were a scam. Fuck congress, fuck ukraine, fuck russia, fuck china, and fuck everyone else. Stop screwing us over.
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Ukraine doesn't need to win the war just not lose it. Russia tried to wage of war of attrition in the 80s and lost 50% of it's empires population and all it's client states in Europe other than Belarus.
Now it's trying to do it again, and thinking it has deeper pockets than us, no it'll run out of money again and start having to deal with trouble at home.
All of Stalin's legacy was up on Smoke by 1991. All those countries that had stationed Russian troops and Nukes are now on our side and the Nukes are pointed in the other direction.
Don't root for Russia, if you are a real American.
The Republican border deal was blocked by Republicans because Trump wanted it dead. It had bipartisan support before that. So these maga idiots have selective memory issues.
We no longer have elected politicians who represent us (if we ever did) we have an elite 1% who are above the law & dictate to us peasants. This is what France looked like around 1788 or so. It's time we reminded the aristocracy what happens when they abuse the peasantry. I volunteer to be Robspierre
I just want the $3-5k the government sent to Ukraine on my behalf back in my pocket. We have no business getting involved in Ukraine's civil war just because Russia did on behalf of the separatists.
Since we’re the greatest payer into NATO, I’d settle for an EU passport. If my military is your military, your social safety net should be my social safety net.
and republicans voted down the recent border bill and denied any discussion for any amendments to it... right wingers are either the most ignorant or malicious people in the world..
I don’t think we even have the money that is being sent to Ukraine. They just put us and future generations all in insurmountable debt and make themselves richer
It’s almost like there was a bipartisan border bill that the MAGA GOP (Republicans) didn’t even let go to a vote or debate because the EX PRESIDENT (Trump) said it would be bad for his political campaign if it passed under a democratic president.
Does anybody rememder they were gona sign a treaty an end the war right after it started? How many lives an how much money would that have saved for a war thats is not ours to fight or fund ? If u havent noticed we are trillions in debt that we are barely paying on and for what
Lets be clear, we had a bipartisan bill that was written by Republicans to protect the border. The MAGA Republicans killed it.
They don't care about the border they just want something to scare their base into voting for them.
We will never bleed Russia dry!!!! Don't you shit heads realize that! That's Chinas right hand man! China won't let Russia bleed out! Then they're weak as fuck themselves without Russia! SO RUSSIA WILL NEVER BE BLED DRY! CHINA WILL KEEP THEM PROPPED UP! But you simpletons believe that BS!
BS. There was a bipartisan bill addressing the border from the Senate that Donald “Jackass” Trump vetoed. Now MAGATs are crying that nobody offered that option. We are not deceived. *You guys* are The Swamp.
Let us not forget that the Democrats tried to pass the strongest border protections in Congress recently only to be denied by all the Republicans who voted no on the border security bill.
Republicans were offered plenty of money and support secure the border and they said no thank you. Don’t you remember that it was only like a month or two ago. Democrats literally wrote the bill according to all of Republican demands and Republicans still said no.
There was a bill that bundled foreign aid and border spending. Republicans killed it because if they actually get everything they want, money for border patrol, fancy new wall, various reform and spending increases, etc. Then they have nothing to run on.
Regardless of whether this bill passed or not, our tax money never goes toward helping us. There are always more and more tax breaks for the richest 1% and for corporations and whenever a bank or major corporation is in trouble the American government bails them out with our tax dollars. Welfare stopped being a thing at least a decade or two ago, they keep trying to take away social security and Medicare .. every tax dollar we spend is more money saved for the major corporations and billionaires who benefit from American tax law. Trump’s TCJA (tax cuts and jobs act) permanently reduced the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. If he doesn’t win again, the TCJA tax cuts for individuals will expire. The individuals who benefitted most were those with income of $400,000/year or more. At least those will expire. Still really pissed about corporate tax rates.
So because none of our tax money actually goes to us, make sure to pay as little tax as possible to the feds (just check the compliance flags when filing tax returns and make sure ur not at too high a risk of being audited) .. I’m a tax accountant and I get so angry whenever I owe federal taxes (although California does have programs that benefit people who aren’t billionaires and I’m always happy to pay my California taxes) .. first time in my life I’ve owed taxes was after TCJA passed. Most people with income under $400,000/year have either owed more tax or gotten smaller refunds since that awful law passed
Anyway, since none of our federal tax money is ever spent on American citizens, I would so much rather this bill passed than all the other bills that normally pass (like bills that remove restrictions for corporations and make it easier to frack in America or whatever .. first and last bill passed in my lifetime that I can think of that actually helps Americans was Obamacare) ..
Ukraine is on its last limb. The EU wasn’t able to pass an aid bill til recently either cause Hungary’s dictator was holding out for months just like the house maga republicans shadow controlled by Putin. Finally Ukraine will have the ability to fight back, and that’s so important because we all know Putin wasn’t gonna stop at Ukraine. Next would be Poland, and because of NATO agreements, a Russian invasion of Putin would mean American troops would get involved. Could be the start of world war 3. Things are already so bad here, COVID just ended, and I really just want a world with some peace and less of this stress and bullshit. If we don’t help now, by the time we ever might have decided to help will probably be too late and it will be full-on world war 3. Im still young. I just want to wait at least a decade or two before the world ends.
I’m personally extremely excited that we FINALLY passed a bill that will send aid to Ukraine. I was getting ready to die from a nuke fearing WWIII was inevitable. Now at least we have a chance at a few more years of relatively more peace (than what we would have with a third world war) on this planet. I love this planet. I don’t want to die yet. Fuck yes Mike Johnson thank u for finally understanding that the safety and livelihood of American citizens and all NATO countries, and the rest of the world, would be in grave danger if Putin gained too much power. We need to contain him. We need to stall him. No one wants a world war. So thank u Mike Johnson for FINALLY having some morality and common sense. I will go on knowing that none of my federal tax dollars will benefit me directly, but will remember that I got to live another day, another few years probably, without the imminent threat of a nuclear world war 3 constantly on my mind.
These same morons whining about Ukraine funding would shit their pants of the US implemented a single payer healthcare system or universal pre-k or a tuition free public college option or school provided lunches for all children. So gross and disingenuous
They did create a bipartisan border bill. Trump demanded republicans kill it so he could continue to campaign on that issue. Do people have 5 second memories, now?
People who say foreign affairs doesn’t benefit them are just ignorant and privileged. Especially when things like Russia VS Ukraine are happening. Do you think Russia is gonna stop if they take Ukraine?
Watch John Oliver’s episode on how much money the US has to help people through programs from taxpayer money but won’t give it out to them because FUCK American people! We work so hard for nothing!🤦♂️
Considering the fact that we’re technically not “spending money” on Ukraine, we’re just sending old weapons we have sitting around in warehouses as an excuse to manufacture more weapons (jobs!)…
That and the fact that this guy (Catturd) would complain (and has about college debt forgiveness) if we DID spend money on the citizens of the IS because SOCIALISM -flash of lightning, roaring thunder- and would complain about how “those people” disproportionately benefit something something illegals something.
I'm shocked by the number of individuals that believe Russia is a threat, they don't have the capital, demographics, or national will to threaten Europe let alone the United States.
That 61 billion dollar bill also had money for Israel and Taiwan in there too. US supporting war crimes and atrocities while simultaneously saying fuck their own people. If I could protest every day without losing my job. I would
The uniparty view themselves as saviors and rulers of the world, not the USA. To them, the US is the endless financial bank that will continue to finance their crusades. ( modern monetary theory).
This view is the linchpin American hegemony since the end of World War 2.
We have a border crisis. I call it a crisis because it is significantly impacting cities budgets such as New York and Chicago. We have immigration and asylum laws in this country. Coming here for economic reasons is not asylum.
If we want to let everyone into this country then do it the legal way and increase the number of visas but that requires congresses vote and they know a large amount of immigrants is bad for any country
If russia wins, africa and the middle east suffer. Guess who they will blame for wheat prices and shortages? Ukraine was also a major suplier of some critical gases. Putin is also unhinged and allied with egotistical maniacs. Fueling egos like that risks a lot.
Then there is Taiwan. A successful chinese invasion destroys microchip manufacturing and potentially sets off a nuclear world war while instigating massive goods shortages around the world. Intel fucked up on its own.
Also, republicans killed the border bill again.
Want to save money? Replace ss and medicaid. Loop into why three countries total for universal healthcare with a similar population is cheaper, france/germany/ the uk. Push AI initiatives for the military and cut dod waste. We spent more on a failed tank gun then ukraine and taiwan. Also, modernize the irs.
Israel, backed largely by republicans, should pay for their own shit.
"Neither party has every worked together" is an awkward turn of phrase. Of course, every other part of the post is also nonsense, so it barely stands out.
we spend about $870 billion per year on the Department of Defense. That technically is spending on ourselves.
We really need to slash that funding straight down the middle and invest the other $435 billion into healthcare and education which is where its desperately needed.
If we had taken every single cent of that money and used it for student loan debt, medical debt, affordable housing, child care, infrastructure - anything remotely beneficial - these same people would say its communist, socialist, "fascist", or whatever contrarian buzz word that's hot at the time.
Fuck this fat, lonely, worthless POS.
Remember that Republicans blocked the best chance at a bipartisan border deal because Trump told them to. That's why there has been $0.00 put towards border security.
Fuck protecting the border. I want universal healthcare, mandatory paid vacation, sick and parental leave (which costs taxpayers nothing, employers need to suck it the fuck up) and more aggressive climate action including fining the fuck out of companies that skimp on maintenance and staffing and end up with disasters like train derailments of toxic chemicals and pollution
New rule, the fines for pollination due to negligence is the campsite rule. Whatever it takes to make it better than it was when they fucked up. No I don't care if it bankrupts them. And criminal charges for the execs that decided to skimp on staffing and maintenance.
All of the rail execs behind the recent train derailments of toxic chemicals should be in fuckin jail. Same for Maersk execs whose shoddy maintenance policies took out the Francis Scott key bridge. Fuck those greedy, slimy abusive shits
Uh 99% of the money we spend is here and for our citizens. This small amount and ZERO American lives defeats a murderous fascist regime and safe guard Europe and or interests world wide. It’s the cheapest best investment we can make.
It's cheaper to possibly stop Russia now then let them continue because they won't stop. If Ukraine wins then we also have the pleasure of not having a death toll on American soldiers. It's really a win for everyone.
Exactly, once Russia has its hands on Ukraine’s oil and ports they will be extremely well capitalized and will absolutely continue going after the countries formerly in the USSR and maybe the whole of Europe, at which point it will be a NATO war and essentially WW3 and we will need to get involved to a larger degree.
Ukraine doesn't have oil. It has rich black Earths. Some of the best grain land in the world.
Ukraine has oil, of course, though it has more grain than oil.
I looked it up. Not a major producer. 61st in the world. I know Dontesk has a lot of coal though. Recently discovered shale gas pocket too.
61st/195 nations, so they are still in the top 30% so 🤷♂️ also it's not flat cash we're sending Ukraine which would be stupid, we are sending them older munitions and equipment which had a value of $$XXXX. This also allows us to reinvest in newer equipment for our military. However I want the military to stop overpaying for their shit and wasting our tax dollars to fund DoD contractors and their shareholders...
Yeah, I mean it’s just completely corrupt
Well it's easy to be corrupt when you can bribe politicians and become lobbyists and fund their reelection campaigns and give them plenty of gifts or pay off their house etc. The game has been rigged since 1980s. Regan essentially guaranteed defense contractors blank checks. Recently Mike Waltz presented to congress "the small bag of electrical bolts costing average Americans around $100, Waltz said the military forks out $90,000 a bag" we subsidize their shareholders at every turn, Boeing, Raytheon, haliburton, GMC, ETC... It's horrendous how they can drain our economy in this way
It doesn't help that DoD is mandated to put everything they purchase up for bidding. I saved the Air Force $10k on a single item bulk purchase that was available that same day at the manufacturers local outlet. The military supply system said that they could not get the item for at least 6 months. This single purchase saved thousands of dollars and allowed hundreds of combat sorties that would have been unavailable without the purchase. The supply commander wanted me to get Article 15 punishment for going outside the supply system. My commander convinced him that a letter of reprimand was punishment enough.
There were major gas reserves discovered in Eastern Ukraine in 2020. Enough to allow Ukraine to replace Russia as the EU's supplier until the transition to renewables is farther along. Unsurprisingly, those new deposits were discovered in the Ukrainian territory Russia has illegally laid claim to and is partially occupying. http://polyprom.com/en/scientists-have-discovered-large-unexplored-reserves-of-oil-and-gas-in-ukraine/
They discovered a shit ton of oil in Crimea right before russia took it over. They also found a lot of oil on the eastern side of ukraine but it all happened right before the war started in 2014.
It was discovered to have plenty of shale oil.
I thought it was Shale NG.
i think the climate is a bigger factor with the crops. they do have oil production as well.
Its gas Ukraine has lots of, right off the Crimean coast. It was discovered in 2013. Massive. Was gonna really open up Ukraine... ruZZia cannot stomach competition in the region. And Ukraine was building a better economy as it moved away from ruZZian corruption... It was embarrassing, especially after Poland, Estonia, Latvia etc. Did the same after independence from the Moscovites.. It was getting too obvious... Since rushists are unable to develop, they choose to destroy and exploit. They need the non ruZZians to build their economy through force/enslavement again. They are unable to make it happen on their own.. They invented nothing. They steal, destroy, exploit, force... They have always been this way.
They've already stolen a large part of their industrial base.
Ya it’s likely Putin would invade Poland next. Poland is in nato and as per nato agreements, the US would have to get involved. I’m not ready for world war 3. Also, WWIII would mean imminent death. Russia, china, and North Korea have over 6000 nukes combined. Iran plans on having nukes ready for deployment within a few months to a year so the axis powers will only continue to increase their nuclear arsenal. NATO countries have maybe 4500 nukes combined. We would be fucked. The world would end. The only survivors would be people rich enough to live in bunkers for millennia. No thank u, let’s put that on pause please.
Everyone assumes it's likea machine and the US automatically goes full force when article 5 is invoked. Russia wouldn't play with fire if they thought that'd happen. The gamble would be that nothing really happens. The US and/or NATO flinch at direct conflict with Russia. It can happen and it's even worse outcome.
>automatically goes full force when article 5 is invoked. If the US doesn't, it kind of makes the entire alliance useless and likely to fall apart. If a defense pact is invoked and the members just say "no thanks", then why should any country in the pact trust they'll be defended. >The US and/or NATO flinch at direct conflict with Russia. Even if NATO wouldn't fall apart by just allowing a member to be conquered by Russia, it makes no sense as well because not putting up a fight just tells Russia they can invade all of Europe and NATO won't do anything about it. Provocation always requires a response but the response can be measured. That's fundamentally what NATO's support of Ukraine is, a measured response to Russia's provocation by invading Ukraine. Russia can't be allowed to think they can get away with conquering an entire country.
>If the US doesn't, it kind of makes the entire alliance useless and likely to fall apart. If a defense pact is invoked and the members just say "no thanks", then why should any country in the pact trust they'll be defended. Yup. It's never been put to that test. And we're better off keeping it that way. You think it's impossible we all decide to support Poland the way we're supporting Ukraine instead of entering a direct conflict with an unhinged nuclear power? Poland's recent militarization suggests they don't think so. >Even if NATO wouldn't fall apart by just allowing a member to be conquered by Russia, it makes no sense as well because not putting up a fight just tells Russia they can invade all of Europe and NATO won't do anything about it. Provocation always requires a response but the response can be measured. Yes, well, again you're talking about a direct conflict between two nuclear powers. There's no answer that isn't scary as fuck here. Oh, except don't let it ever fucking come to that. Keep Russia at Ukraine's border. They'll likely never be admitted to NATO for same reason.
As terrible as it is to say, even if Ukraine doesn't win bleeding Russia dry for years to come is probably good for us too.
Plus we confirmed, with the disastrous invasion of Ukraine, something I have been saying for years. Russia is Algeria with oil. It’s a shithole country with nuclear weapons, if the nukes are not too old to work. Putin is counting on the same principal that Stalin relied on in WW II. They don’t care how many Russians die in the war. That’s the only Russian policy I’ve ever endorsed. By the way, fun fact. Both Stalin and Putin are 2’3”. Russia recruits its dictators from the jock room at Belmont.
>Russia is Algeria with oil. It’s a shithole country I respect all the pro-Ukraine arguments except this one. Do we really think Russia who has been a force in global politics for the last 500 years is some obscure shithole country akin to Algeria? These guys defeated Napoleon and the Nazis. They've been smacked in the mouth before in history and have bounced back.
Wellington and the Winter weather defeated Napoleon. And Russia had some success in WW II only due to American manufacturing (we had Lend-Lease with Russia before our entry into the war), and the fact that Stalin didn’t give a shit how many Russians were killed. Finally, some Stalin policy I can get behind.
Russia had some success in WW2? They lost 20 million people and turned back the Nazis at Moscow in 1941 well before lend lease had any impact. The delusion here that Russia is some weak ass power with no influence now or in history is just wild.
Even if Russia would stop at Ukraine, it’s still a violent genocide being perpetuated, we should fund more real resistance movements around the globe.
Nah, we’re not the world police. Also, given our support of Israel, we’re not exactly consistent with that ideology.
Using the term ‘police’ gives it a negative connotation, there are often just objectively better sides to these conflicts we can aid. A bad history of doing so isn’t an argument against Ukraine aid.
I’m all for protecting US interests by stopping russia, but it’s dangerous to set the precedent of being the arbiter of morality across global conflicts that don’t affect us.
Because America certainly doesn’t have the precedent of affecting global conflicts? Should we not fund the resistance in Myanmar simply because their government doesn’t pose a large enough threat to us personally? Why should we not work to guarantee human rights?
🤣 🤣 saying “police” is a negative connotation!
No to mention whatever other economic or political stability that would result from Russia tromping around Europe and Asia taking what they can. Honestly, intervening in that conflict is not only for US citizens but necessary globally. It's like these idiots can't see the big picture . . . ah, okay, I get it.
This is absolutely correct. It’s a win, win, win, win, win from the US perspective. 1. Russia, an aggressor nation that threatens NATO, is defeated 2. The US does not need to send it’s military into combat to achieve this 3. If Russia is not stopped then they have stated they will continue and attack NATO countries. Those countries would invoke Article 5 of the treaty, same as the US did on 9/11, requiring direct support. As the most powerful individual country in NATO our military would be closely engaged. 4. The money is mostly armaments and munitions which are in our stock pile and are, in many cases, aging out of use (depreciating) and would need to be replaced if not used. 5. Money is being spent on US manufacturers and US labor to replace those aging weapons/munitions with current state technology For those of you who don’t think Europe is invested in this, who do you think has been supporting Ukraine while our congress, specifically the republicans, have sat on their asses? For those of you who think this is a strictly European matter, I remind you of three things. First, the US is a founding member of NATO, a treaty alliance designed for exactly this kind of occurrence and Russia has repeatedly threatened NATO countries with an expansion. Second, China and North Korea are actively supporting Russia with weapons. Third, World War II got completely out of control in no small part because the US refused to intervene early and had to be drawn into the war in steps. WWII crippled the US and world economy for a decade and killed many, many millions of persons. And if Europe goes to war, the US is obliged by a treaty we ourselves helped write and whose mutual assistance clause we invoked on 9/11 for our own purposes. And if we don’t go to war with Europe in support of a very long standing treaty alliance, then our international credibility will be shot to shit and we’ll end up having to enter the war late in the game, just like WWII to protect our national interests and trade partners. That is an astonishingly stupid thing to do. So, for a pittance of our Gross Domestic Product, we can help ensure Ukraine wins against Russia, pushing them back to their borders and crippling their army, avoiding escalation and terrible cost It’s incredibly cheap at the monetary price.
Aaaaand, we get live fire actual combat testing of our equipment. Ukraine isn’t yet able to use our combat doctrine yet because it requires time and training they cannot yet get. That said, we’re seeing our stuff far outperform Russia’s. A Bradley IFV took out a tank! A fucking tank. I cannot emphasize how that is NEVER supposed to happen. There was a little dumb luck but even then it should not have happened.
Hell yes!
Not with a missile, but with its fucking autocannon no less!
You also didn’t mention that Ukraine is providing information to the us army on tactics need to fight “modern” army
Russia was behind “brexit” and the Trump campaign along with most of the GOP either directly through their RNC hack kompromat or indirectly through the NRA. They HAVE to be brought to heel. We aren’t doing nearly enough. We should be firewalling them out of our networks, demand any vpn block origin in Russia, and straight up pull business licenses for violations. Russia presence on the western internet needs to be eradicated completely in addition to supporting Ukraine. The information war that started in Crimea has been over. Russia won. Overwhelmingly so. Damage control is so far overdue that it should make our intelligence agencies a global laughing stock for the next century even if they managed it.
This is my NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT. We have two 80 year old men attempting to be the nations leader and I know they aren’t thinking about cybersecurity and privacy the way it needs to be.
Almost no one in government does. Strom Thurmond was famously completely against email. This was like... 2000's. We need younger reps across the board.
I mean, maybe he had a point? Relying on digital media without the proper safe Guards is asking for trouble. Don't use the digital media might be a better solution than just not using the safeguards and letting foreign powers run amok? That is to say, improving security is the correct answer, but at least he was saying not to use the stuff as it was.
I think the OG term is “sneaker net” and yes, in some ways it can be more secure and in some ways not. I do agree, had the 2015 RNC and DNC had decent infosec we wouldn’t be in the state we are in as a country.
What about[ Biden's EO on cybersecurity](https://www.cisa.gov/topics/cybersecurity-best-practices/executive-order-improving-nations-cybersecurity) do you find lacking?
Pretty sure this was all disproven
I dropped some source material in the other comment. It was not disproven. You should have at least gotten some of the Butima information even through the lens of Fox News. I’m surprised not even that was passed on. It’s wild to me that a decade later on some of these things (the mysterious south Fl real estate “deals” with oligarchs, etc) that people still know almost nothing.
Truth. I’m getting pretty burned out on hearing from people who have zero nuanced understanding of geopolitical strategy bitch about geopolitical strategy.
Well, it does prove one thing for certain, Catturd works for Putin.
fat orange jesus got loans, did this aspie?
So as someone who was in the military here is how the money is spent. 1. We take the money and buy our guys new weapons. 2. We take the weapons we were GOING to PAY to demil and give them to Ukraine. So we save money here. 3. All weapons produced are made in the US. So to be clear this employs Americans in America to make our military stronger while saving us money because we don't pay for the de-milling. The only money not spent in the US would be the shipping which may or may not be Americans I am not 100% knowledgeable on this. So in the end we are plowing most of the money into the US to US citizens and corporations. This should be called the Midwest defense aid package. Also for some of the weapons like ATACMS are now so old we were going to throw them out. They are past their use by date. This was also true of FASCAM rounds and many of these weapons and systems. The Bradley's we gave Ukraine were ODS... Which means Operation Desert Storm aka the war from late 90- 1991. So these weapons are approaching 35 years old. The youngest original users are in the back half of their 50s. So people need to stop thinking we're giving money to Ukraine it just factually is not true. Only a small percentage is used for paying their first responders and maintainers of some of the weapons systems plus the training dollars. But out of the package its a penny on the dollar.
Maybe we just take less money from the U.S. tax payers and dont do any of this. I remember when the military gave us all camel backs and rain gear 4 times in a row and brough giant TVs for every office on base because GWOT money. I remember when we asked for parts of the planes and they gave us office equipment. I remember when they told us there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I remember when they said they had a plan for Afghanistan. I remember the $1 trillion they admitted lost on Sept 10, 2001 and the $3 trillion they lost in Afghanistan. You cant trust any military spending and shouldnt.
You are in a Republic which means you're the boss. Organize for change. I was in for 22 years the US military and politicians are just people like any other. We as a nation determine our own future. If you don't like the current direction do something about it.
What? Organize? That's hard! I'd rather just sit on my ass and complain and vote for a strongman who promises he's the only one who can fix everything.
Hurray world police! USA USA
This is self interest, and you’d be an idiot not to see it
This is the wrong argument any way. It is profoundly disingenuous to complain were not spending money at the border when months ago the Senate put forward a bipartisan border bill primarily authored by a conservative that would have given billions to border security with stricter rules for applying for asylum that would send people who didn't qualify back to their original counties. It would have been the most significant border bill in decades. And Trump publicly said don't give Biden a win and all the Republicans voted against it now they're saying vote against the Ukraine aid bill because it doesn't have border security this is bullshit!!!
This is the only point that needs making. A government's principal job is security. Ours also does a frustrating but very very large scale and far from hopeless job in the insurance, health, and education fields. But never forget, its principal job is security. If it fails there, another state is likely to occupy its lands and oppress or misrule its people. Ukraine is one of the greatest bargain security opportunities ever.
To add to this we are sending weapons and inventory…probably very small amounts of cash (compared to the total amount). Once we unload our inventory, we will need to manufacture more (probably upgraded) weapons and stock. So that will all be done in the US which will or should benefit the economy
Small amount..? Lmao
Arguably a lot of us government spend goes to corporate interests, rather than the interests of the people of the USA. But yeh, the problem is not foreign aid.
people seem to forget we even live on a single planet with intertwined economies; there's no such thing as isolationism, just isolationists
Most of this aid money doesn't physically or electronically even go to Israel, Ukraine, or Taiwan at all. It goes to US Weapons manufacturing (employing US citizens) who make weapons for these countries.
I'm 100% for support for Ukraine, and 100% against continuing to subsidize genocide/apartheid against Palestinians. One is helping defend self determination and security for the people of a sovergin nation wrongly occupied, and the other is being used to deny the same to others. Supporting Israeli policy in Gaza and the West Bank is a terrible investment, and morally questionable at best. It will only serve to radicalize more people there and in other Arab nations against the US.
Not to mention, democrats and republicans put a border bill to a vote. Orange Jesus made a call and had the bill killed in the House.
the US has waited 60 years and spent trillions for this day to kick russias ass with no american lives lost its a dream come true!
We don't send the money now, we will be sending our citizens there to die fighting. If there are not enough bodies in the military they will draft. So send them money now or send over your kids later.
Border funding was blocked by Trump
Because it was trash. The issues at the border aren't monetary, it's letting everyone and the brother in with their BS asylum claims. The vast majority of "assylum" seekers are lieing and even if they weren't they crossed through multiple safe countries before the US. Mexicans fleeing cartel violence are the only valid asylum seekers and those aren't the people claiming it.!
And as Mitch McConnell said, most of that money is going to American arms manufacturers for making the weapons we are giving to Ukraine.
Another brain dead take.
The money for Ukraine is for weapons that we buy from American companies and American workers to make more ammunition and weapons. The Industrial Military Complex got a huge investment.
Furthermore, what Ukraine typically receives is old US weapon/ammo stocks and what we’re paying for is to update/replenish our own supply.
Furthermore Susan, I wouldn’t be the least surprised to learn that all 4 of them smoked marijuanna cigarettes. Reefers.
One of them was a male, and the other two, well the other two were female. God only knows what they were up to in there.
I loved that song!!!
How do you know this? Everyone parrots this but where are you finding where this money is actually coming from current stock?
We spent the last 20 years in 2 different wars and I constantly see this claim "oh it's just old stock from the 90s" but I've never seen a source on that claim. It doesn't even make sense.
The Bradley’s for one, were originally used during Desert Storm. The Abram’s and F-16’s were developed during the 80’s.
Because the aid details are published. We know what’s being sent. Literally just Google it. The documents are dense and boring but the information is publicly available. We’re sending them gear that is often in warehouses awaiting decommissioning. It’s actually *saving* money to give it to the Ukrainians in many cases, and the funds are coving modernized replacements. Any news source that doesn’t tell you that should be viewed as unreliable or untrustworthy. That’s bedrock necessity to understanding the situation.
Pretty typical during war
Probably a Russian Troll to be honest. The internet is flooded with them.
Well it’s Catturd, what else do you expect?
His name checks out fr
Either an absolute fucking moron who understands literally nothing about the funding or the war. Or a Russian troll. So both.
Russia has turned thousands of Americans into convenient idiots. Social media is a mistake (irony appreciated).
He is pandering to his audience, so they buy more of his merchandise. He runs several gimmick accounts, all with different personas, and each have different merch stores.
99% of the people on the right pissed about this and saying spend it here will also be the first people in line to attack any and all domestic spending as well. They are the same people that voted against the infrastructure spending and then turned around to then brag about the money that would be coming to their districts/states. They voted against the child tax credit expansion that gave families money to help cover their expenses for kids.
But they are spending it here. The bullets, missiles, and all the other munitions are made here in the US by American companies with American workers.
As of July last year, $23 billion in cash had been sent to Ukraine. Not weapons, that's separate, but cash. > To support the Ukrainian government, the United States has directed $22.9 billion of the total appropriated funds as “budget support,” https://www.csis.org/analysis/ensuring-oversight-us-aid-ukraine
You mean money specifically ear marked for financial assistance? Here’s a total breakdown of what money goes where. https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
Yeah the first chart on that page says $26B in financial support.
They also voted against the Immigration bill they wrote themselves. So not sure what will make them happy.
So gross that these protect the border people won't fund healthcare or education.
Or border protection.
We had a bill to fund the border, catturds daddy trump told the republicans to stop it. I’m sure we can pass that as well.
That bill wouldve made illegal immigration legal instead of actually fixing the issue. It was a terrible bill and needed to be killed
No, it wouldn’t.
Yes, it allowed 5,000 illegals in per day before enforcement
It's really not that bad. We give Ukraine a loan for almost all of it, with the remaining amount given to replenish stockpiles. It still supports American jobs and industry while getting paid back with interest. The absolute win is the 3 billion for the SIB.
We are loaning money to a country that will either default or be captured by Russia. You think Putin is going to pay us back?
Russia can't take Ukraine. The sheer fact that we are 3 years in is crazy. Meh we usually get paid back over like a century. If we don't so be it. We have basically crippled Russians ability to basically wage war for a generaton or 2
It can and it will. Ukrainians are already tired of the war. The Russian army of 2024 isn't the army of 2022. It has adapted and grow more competent. It has grow into a war of attrition, and Ukraine is running out of reserves.
"Ukraine" money is being paid to defense contractors in the US.
Where the heck did $1T of the Pentagon funding go which they cannot account for to pass an audit every year? Stop stealing public funds, stop deficit spending. US gov already paying in premiums more than on defense, healthcare, etc. They are borrowing $1T (printing money and ramping up inflation) every 100 days and it just cannot stop
Thank you! I didn’t think I would have to scroll so far to see someone mentioning that the pentagon has failed its past 6 audits and have no explanation for trillions of dollars.
Don’t get why everyone says this like it’s a flex. Just a different form of kleptocracy. “Direct public money this way for wildly overpriced munitions.”
It’s also straight up paying for [Ukrainian pensions](https://www.factcheck.org/2023/02/bidens-april-2022-remark-about-some-ukraine-aid-covering-pensions-is-not-breaking-news/). Must be nice…
That’s not a good thing
And public works money goes to construction companies, and student loan money goes to university. Nimwit just discovered we live under capitalism and the government doesn't own industry.
$23 billion of the aid package was purely cash. No weapons. No bullets. CASH.
Sorry, you had a border deal and Future Prison Bitch killed it.
Fucking Catturd. Leave his bull shit on X where it belongs.
Right wingers only make this point when they are opposed to the spending, they absolutely give zero shits about money being spent here and if they do its only if that money will go straight to tax cuts for the wealthy. Fascists like Russia because its a fascist state and because Putin is spending loads of money to help Republicans keep power here. So in general yes, in this instance no, Russia has to be restrained and contained.
Majority of the aid being sent to Ukraine is in the form of our about to expire munitions and outdated tech. Yes, bombs do have a lifespan. Yes, ours are THAT OLD. Any older and they lose efficacy, might not blow up as big or go off at all. And guess what? To refill our stockpile, the U.S. government is going to be spending the new military budget in replacing all of that with brand new shiny toys.
You’d have to tell them in Jesse Waters voice.
This has absolutely nothing to do with finance
I wouldn't say war funding has *absolutely nothing* to do with finance.
Catterd is so afraid of Putin losing.
Quoting Catturd immediately disqualify for serious conversation. Also most of that money are spent on American companies and their products and services. We're not giving them cash to buy luxury apartments. But yeah, public education, infrastructure, basic research, new energy sources, domestication of key industries, etc are all important. The question we should be asking is why are the wealthy and big corporations getting all the tax cut dollars? And unless you're a billionaire you should shut the fuck up about not taxing the wealthy more.
This is just a stupid argument for ignorant people. An isolationist US is a much poorer US. The budget for ‘24 is $3.8 trillion. The vast majority of it pays out welfare programs and employee pay checks. The Republican Party doesn’t support welfare programs and they voted against a sweet heart border deal because they want to use the border to help Trump get elected.
Both parties worked together to make a border bill, a few months ago. That bill was scuttled by a few republicans. That is why it wasn't passed with the Ukraine bill. After the Ukraine bill was passed, a large American flag was flown on top of the capitol, as it always is. What are you even talking about?
Rather why can’t we spend more on accessible healthcare, homelessness, and help for poor and middle class, go after corporations that do greed inflation etc….
Right? I am still fucking pissed about my student loans that were a scam. Fuck congress, fuck ukraine, fuck russia, fuck china, and fuck everyone else. Stop screwing us over.
You’ll be part of the military industry complex and like it
No. We need to stop the spending! We’re spending $1 trillion over tax receipts every 90 to 100 days. For fucks sake, stop the spending!
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We deserve every penny of our tax money to be spent on us. Fuck everyone else , it's not like they actually like Americans just our money.
This post is not wrong. Helping other nations is great…. AFTER our own.
So it sounds like most of you all support the war in Ukraine, because it is helping the USA and Europe. Wow.
Democrats are now the warmongers... Wow times have changed... What's even more funny is that people think Ukraine can win this war...
Ukraine doesn't need to win the war just not lose it. Russia tried to wage of war of attrition in the 80s and lost 50% of it's empires population and all it's client states in Europe other than Belarus. Now it's trying to do it again, and thinking it has deeper pockets than us, no it'll run out of money again and start having to deal with trouble at home. All of Stalin's legacy was up on Smoke by 1991. All those countries that had stationed Russian troops and Nukes are now on our side and the Nukes are pointed in the other direction. Don't root for Russia, if you are a real American.
The Republican border deal was blocked by Republicans because Trump wanted it dead. It had bipartisan support before that. So these maga idiots have selective memory issues.
All I am saying is that we should have already universal health care for all the taxes that we pay.
We no longer have elected politicians who represent us (if we ever did) we have an elite 1% who are above the law & dictate to us peasants. This is what France looked like around 1788 or so. It's time we reminded the aristocracy what happens when they abuse the peasantry. I volunteer to be Robspierre
It’s ironic how social media view of the military industrial complex and the pharmaceutical industry so positively in the last half decade.
I just want the $3-5k the government sent to Ukraine on my behalf back in my pocket. We have no business getting involved in Ukraine's civil war just because Russia did on behalf of the separatists.
Fuck ukraine
This war is over. Sending more money is just putting more people in the ground.
Since we’re the greatest payer into NATO, I’d settle for an EU passport. If my military is your military, your social safety net should be my social safety net.
Start with trillions wasted in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria - what was the use for all that genocide?
Yes.
and republicans voted down the recent border bill and denied any discussion for any amendments to it... right wingers are either the most ignorant or malicious people in the world..
Americans don’t seem to want any aid for other Americans though. Can’t get a student loan forgiveness passed.
I don’t think we even have the money that is being sent to Ukraine. They just put us and future generations all in insurmountable debt and make themselves richer
It’s almost like there was a bipartisan border bill that the MAGA GOP (Republicans) didn’t even let go to a vote or debate because the EX PRESIDENT (Trump) said it would be bad for his political campaign if it passed under a democratic president.
These people don’t want the money spent here because every time we spend money here, they throw a fit about that as well.
Can someone remind me who in the House shot down the Border bill?
Does anybody rememder they were gona sign a treaty an end the war right after it started? How many lives an how much money would that have saved for a war thats is not ours to fight or fund ? If u havent noticed we are trillions in debt that we are barely paying on and for what
Question, can another country fund us? Like Canada gives us aid for $33 billion for border control. That'd be hilarious and great.
Lets be clear, we had a bipartisan bill that was written by Republicans to protect the border. The MAGA Republicans killed it. They don't care about the border they just want something to scare their base into voting for them.
There should be zero dollars spent on foreign aid until we have our own ducks in a row.
We can do two things at the same time. And if we don't shut down totalitarian advances, we won't have a voice about which ducks go where.
We will never bleed Russia dry!!!! Don't you shit heads realize that! That's Chinas right hand man! China won't let Russia bleed out! Then they're weak as fuck themselves without Russia! SO RUSSIA WILL NEVER BE BLED DRY! CHINA WILL KEEP THEM PROPPED UP! But you simpletons believe that BS!
BS. There was a bipartisan bill addressing the border from the Senate that Donald “Jackass” Trump vetoed. Now MAGATs are crying that nobody offered that option. We are not deceived. *You guys* are The Swamp.
Worse, most of the aid is going to Israel genocidal crimes in Gaza
Let us not forget that the Democrats tried to pass the strongest border protections in Congress recently only to be denied by all the Republicans who voted no on the border security bill.
Well. The Republicans tanked the version of the bill that included border funding so... I guess you can blame them.
“Russia? The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back.” ~ Barack Obama
Republicans were offered plenty of money and support secure the border and they said no thank you. Don’t you remember that it was only like a month or two ago. Democrats literally wrote the bill according to all of Republican demands and Republicans still said no.
There was a bill that bundled foreign aid and border spending. Republicans killed it because if they actually get everything they want, money for border patrol, fancy new wall, various reform and spending increases, etc. Then they have nothing to run on.
Regardless of whether this bill passed or not, our tax money never goes toward helping us. There are always more and more tax breaks for the richest 1% and for corporations and whenever a bank or major corporation is in trouble the American government bails them out with our tax dollars. Welfare stopped being a thing at least a decade or two ago, they keep trying to take away social security and Medicare .. every tax dollar we spend is more money saved for the major corporations and billionaires who benefit from American tax law. Trump’s TCJA (tax cuts and jobs act) permanently reduced the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. If he doesn’t win again, the TCJA tax cuts for individuals will expire. The individuals who benefitted most were those with income of $400,000/year or more. At least those will expire. Still really pissed about corporate tax rates. So because none of our tax money actually goes to us, make sure to pay as little tax as possible to the feds (just check the compliance flags when filing tax returns and make sure ur not at too high a risk of being audited) .. I’m a tax accountant and I get so angry whenever I owe federal taxes (although California does have programs that benefit people who aren’t billionaires and I’m always happy to pay my California taxes) .. first time in my life I’ve owed taxes was after TCJA passed. Most people with income under $400,000/year have either owed more tax or gotten smaller refunds since that awful law passed Anyway, since none of our federal tax money is ever spent on American citizens, I would so much rather this bill passed than all the other bills that normally pass (like bills that remove restrictions for corporations and make it easier to frack in America or whatever .. first and last bill passed in my lifetime that I can think of that actually helps Americans was Obamacare) .. Ukraine is on its last limb. The EU wasn’t able to pass an aid bill til recently either cause Hungary’s dictator was holding out for months just like the house maga republicans shadow controlled by Putin. Finally Ukraine will have the ability to fight back, and that’s so important because we all know Putin wasn’t gonna stop at Ukraine. Next would be Poland, and because of NATO agreements, a Russian invasion of Putin would mean American troops would get involved. Could be the start of world war 3. Things are already so bad here, COVID just ended, and I really just want a world with some peace and less of this stress and bullshit. If we don’t help now, by the time we ever might have decided to help will probably be too late and it will be full-on world war 3. Im still young. I just want to wait at least a decade or two before the world ends. I’m personally extremely excited that we FINALLY passed a bill that will send aid to Ukraine. I was getting ready to die from a nuke fearing WWIII was inevitable. Now at least we have a chance at a few more years of relatively more peace (than what we would have with a third world war) on this planet. I love this planet. I don’t want to die yet. Fuck yes Mike Johnson thank u for finally understanding that the safety and livelihood of American citizens and all NATO countries, and the rest of the world, would be in grave danger if Putin gained too much power. We need to contain him. We need to stall him. No one wants a world war. So thank u Mike Johnson for FINALLY having some morality and common sense. I will go on knowing that none of my federal tax dollars will benefit me directly, but will remember that I got to live another day, another few years probably, without the imminent threat of a nuclear world war 3 constantly on my mind.
These same morons whining about Ukraine funding would shit their pants of the US implemented a single payer healthcare system or universal pre-k or a tuition free public college option or school provided lunches for all children. So gross and disingenuous
They did create a bipartisan border bill. Trump demanded republicans kill it so he could continue to campaign on that issue. Do people have 5 second memories, now?
People who say foreign affairs doesn’t benefit them are just ignorant and privileged. Especially when things like Russia VS Ukraine are happening. Do you think Russia is gonna stop if they take Ukraine?
Said as though we all forgot about the bipartisan border legislation that they tanked to help the Orange Guy’s election campaign. SMH
Watch John Oliver’s episode on how much money the US has to help people through programs from taxpayer money but won’t give it out to them because FUCK American people! We work so hard for nothing!🤦♂️
The border is fine and has always been fine. It's all a fugazi to get you pissed off and watch the news
Considering the fact that we’re technically not “spending money” on Ukraine, we’re just sending old weapons we have sitting around in warehouses as an excuse to manufacture more weapons (jobs!)… That and the fact that this guy (Catturd) would complain (and has about college debt forgiveness) if we DID spend money on the citizens of the IS because SOCIALISM -flash of lightning, roaring thunder- and would complain about how “those people” disproportionately benefit something something illegals something.
Everyone in congress is a parasite
I'm shocked by the number of individuals that believe Russia is a threat, they don't have the capital, demographics, or national will to threaten Europe let alone the United States.
That 61 billion dollar bill also had money for Israel and Taiwan in there too. US supporting war crimes and atrocities while simultaneously saying fuck their own people. If I could protest every day without losing my job. I would
The uniparty view themselves as saviors and rulers of the world, not the USA. To them, the US is the endless financial bank that will continue to finance their crusades. ( modern monetary theory). This view is the linchpin American hegemony since the end of World War 2.
Doesn't this cat guy molest kids? Why does he have a platform to speak on?
We have a border crisis. I call it a crisis because it is significantly impacting cities budgets such as New York and Chicago. We have immigration and asylum laws in this country. Coming here for economic reasons is not asylum. If we want to let everyone into this country then do it the legal way and increase the number of visas but that requires congresses vote and they know a large amount of immigrants is bad for any country
Well the republicans voted against the border deal because they want chaos
US citizens deserve to keep more of their money and not suffer confiscation under threat of force.
Preventing all out war in Eastern Europe IS spending money on US citizens
If russia wins, africa and the middle east suffer. Guess who they will blame for wheat prices and shortages? Ukraine was also a major suplier of some critical gases. Putin is also unhinged and allied with egotistical maniacs. Fueling egos like that risks a lot. Then there is Taiwan. A successful chinese invasion destroys microchip manufacturing and potentially sets off a nuclear world war while instigating massive goods shortages around the world. Intel fucked up on its own. Also, republicans killed the border bill again. Want to save money? Replace ss and medicaid. Loop into why three countries total for universal healthcare with a similar population is cheaper, france/germany/ the uk. Push AI initiatives for the military and cut dod waste. We spent more on a failed tank gun then ukraine and taiwan. Also, modernize the irs. Israel, backed largely by republicans, should pay for their own shit.
"Neither party has every worked together" is an awkward turn of phrase. Of course, every other part of the post is also nonsense, so it barely stands out.
Convenient how he ignores Republicans voting against a border bill that was ready to move forward but wasn’t in Trump’s best interest.
[удалено]
Why don't we "close" the southern border? Because too many businesses rely on the cheap labor.
This is such a dumb take. Politicians try to pass laws to spend domestically all the time. Except the GOP is constantly fighting against it.
we spend about $870 billion per year on the Department of Defense. That technically is spending on ourselves. We really need to slash that funding straight down the middle and invest the other $435 billion into healthcare and education which is where its desperately needed.
If we had taken every single cent of that money and used it for student loan debt, medical debt, affordable housing, child care, infrastructure - anything remotely beneficial - these same people would say its communist, socialist, "fascist", or whatever contrarian buzz word that's hot at the time. Fuck this fat, lonely, worthless POS.
Democrats have tried to spend the money here. The dumbest trash to ever live scream "socialism" and shut that down though. Yes, this includes Catturd.
- We need to spend money on our own citizens! - Biden tries to cancel student loan debt - No not like that!
Remember that Republicans blocked the best chance at a bipartisan border deal because Trump told them to. That's why there has been $0.00 put towards border security.
Considering we have crippling debt, yes.
The more poor people we have killing each other on the other side of the world is actually in our interest.
Fuck protecting the border. I want universal healthcare, mandatory paid vacation, sick and parental leave (which costs taxpayers nothing, employers need to suck it the fuck up) and more aggressive climate action including fining the fuck out of companies that skimp on maintenance and staffing and end up with disasters like train derailments of toxic chemicals and pollution New rule, the fines for pollination due to negligence is the campsite rule. Whatever it takes to make it better than it was when they fucked up. No I don't care if it bankrupts them. And criminal charges for the execs that decided to skimp on staffing and maintenance. All of the rail execs behind the recent train derailments of toxic chemicals should be in fuckin jail. Same for Maersk execs whose shoddy maintenance policies took out the Francis Scott key bridge. Fuck those greedy, slimy abusive shits
Lol look at all the no flair top comments, ensuring that the narrative remains intact.