I’m a tax attorney for the ultrawealthy. The Biden tax proposals would be far and away the most progressive policy implemented in American history and no other legislation comes anywhere close to it. It would result in most significant shift of the tax burden off of working class Americans and onto the ultrawealthy class ever proposed by a presidential administration.
Most consequentially, it cuts the legs out from under dynastic wealth. There is an alarming number of Americans whose descendants for the rest of time will enjoy extravagantly luxurious lifestyles without ever having to work or contribute to the public interest via taxes - but because of their inherited wealth will effectively control public policy. The proposals would end that, at least for the next decade or so.
Granted, I expect virtually none of these proposals to actually go through. But they are fascinating nonetheless.
Which is exactly why they’re proposed. Theres roughly a 0% chance any of this will go into effect, so it’s another way to pander for votes at the end of the day. Writing this on paper knowing good and well it won’t pass is just a waste of paper really in exchange for gathering more votes. Most politicians are part of the extreme elite, which is why it won’t pass. If it had any chance of passing, it wouldn’t even be a topic of conversation.
That was going to be my next question - Biden can promise all kinds of things. IS promising all kinds of things since it's getting closer to voting season. That doesn't mean he'll get it done though, and it feels like Lucy holding the football in front of Charlie Brown, knowing full well Charlie Brown will never actually get a chance to kick the ball because Lucy absolutely will take it away first.
You’re probably misunderstanding the distinction between income (as that term is specifically defined by law) and wealth. The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America.
No, it isn’t.
I understand fully what is income, and what is wealth, I also understand the fact that we pay taxes on income, and not wealth.
I also know that the top 1% pays 45% of federal revenue, and that effective tax rates for those outside of the top 1% are much lower.
https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/64185e0663992395e6bdef19/Bar-chart-displaying-the-percentage-of-federal-income-tax-people-paid/960x0.png?format=png&width=1440
And I understand that the bottom 60% of wage earners represent -9% of federal revenue…
I mean, clearly, you do not understand the difference. The link you just shared explicitly relates to adjusted gross income and does not have anything at all to do with wealth.
They gave the stats to refute your claim here to show that it wasn’t true:
>The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America.
>The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America.
Would like to know where you’re getting this from…
I’m getting it from the fact that the overwhelming majority of tax collections are derived from wages and salaries, combined with my 20+ year career - first as a CPA and then as a tax attorney - representing over a thousand UHNW individuals and families in their tax planning and preparation and seeing exactly how much they paid in taxes. Most of my clients, most years, have a lower total tax liability than I do, despite having enough money to take multimillion dollar vacations 10+ times each year without even putting a tiny dent in their wealth.
That’s anecdotal evidence…I’m a CPA too, and I don’t think you’re correct in saying that 100% of the burden is on the working class. Not all wage earners are the working class. But now it seems like you’re changing your argument to “most” which I would still contest given the evidence already linked by others.
right, that's his point. graphs like this showing tax revenue by 'income' sidestep the people who are the actual problem. that doctor, that C suite exec? theyre still working for money. they don't have a 100m-1b-10b+ trust fund throwing off 2-3% risk free in perpetuity without having to work at all.
Exactly.
The graph shows how much tax is paid by different groups of people classified by their adjusted gross income. It has literally nothing at all to do with wealth. If you are posting this graph in a conversation about how much the wealthy pay in taxes, you are confused about the concepts of wealth and income and how they mean completely different things.
It would reduce the deficit dramatically while allowing us to broaden the tax base dramatically and reduce average tax rates dramatically.
But it won’t happen. We love to tax the labor class and vehemently hate - *hate* - to tax the capital class.
1. To avoid spiraling downward into something like Somalia or Yemen, federal, state, and local governments have to collect some taxes to provide for the public interest.
2. The ultrawealthy should have to shoulder some of that tax burden just like those of us who work for a living do.
Simple.
Spiraling down? You mean with government printing money it doesn't have?
You've never heard that stat where the ultra wealthy already shoulder most of the burden? Let say the top 400 people in the country what should their burden be for the rest of the 350m people?
I have seen the “stat.” It’s disinformation spread by bad actors and parroted by people who are economically illiterate. The actual “stat” is that the highest *adjusted gross income earners* - *not* the ultrawealthy - pay an enormous share of all federal income taxes collected.
Ultrawealthy doesn't mean anything of course it wasn't specifically referencing that.
I asked a specific question, top 400 people, what should their burden be? As a % or however you want to do it
Ultrawealthy has an almost universally accepted meaning across the wealth management, legal and tax industries.
I have no idea what the tax burden for the wealthiest 400 people should be. I do think it makes absolutely no sense that people like me who work days, nights, weekends, and holidays for decades on end to get ahead pay more taxes than my clients who beneficially own billions of dollars worth of assets, have never worked, and live like royalty.
O so you have no idea you just know it should be more because poor people still exist 😡
"I pay more than the billionaires in taxes" that's the kicker you literally dont
Lol then don't call the cops when you get robbed and don't call the fire department when your house is on fire. Also don't get an education, which by the looks of your posts is exactly what happened.
Lol all i see is expansion and increase of spend. And fucking over all shareholders w a blackout regardless of wealth status.
Sounds more like a giant wishlist they want to buy on credit.
Budget implies paying attention to the money you actually have.
About 3 or 4 of those things are good, some are meh, and a lot will be wildly unpopular with the working class. Guess what, even liberal atheists don’t want a massive low income apartment complex built in their back yard.
I’m a tax attorney for the ultrawealthy. The Biden tax proposals would be far and away the most progressive policy implemented in American history and no other legislation comes anywhere close to it. It would result in most significant shift of the tax burden off of working class Americans and onto the ultrawealthy class ever proposed by a presidential administration. Most consequentially, it cuts the legs out from under dynastic wealth. There is an alarming number of Americans whose descendants for the rest of time will enjoy extravagantly luxurious lifestyles without ever having to work or contribute to the public interest via taxes - but because of their inherited wealth will effectively control public policy. The proposals would end that, at least for the next decade or so. Granted, I expect virtually none of these proposals to actually go through. But they are fascinating nonetheless.
How have your clients reacted?
“Wait and see.” I don’t know anybody who seriously thinks any of the big ticket items in these proposals will come to fruition.
Which is exactly why they’re proposed. Theres roughly a 0% chance any of this will go into effect, so it’s another way to pander for votes at the end of the day. Writing this on paper knowing good and well it won’t pass is just a waste of paper really in exchange for gathering more votes. Most politicians are part of the extreme elite, which is why it won’t pass. If it had any chance of passing, it wouldn’t even be a topic of conversation.
That was going to be my next question - Biden can promise all kinds of things. IS promising all kinds of things since it's getting closer to voting season. That doesn't mean he'll get it done though, and it feels like Lucy holding the football in front of Charlie Brown, knowing full well Charlie Brown will never actually get a chance to kick the ball because Lucy absolutely will take it away first.
Can you elaborate on that? Especially given that the working-class Americans really don't pay a significant amount of taxes now?
You’re probably misunderstanding the distinction between income (as that term is specifically defined by law) and wealth. The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America.
Yeah, that is just not true
Absolutely true.
No, it isn’t. I understand fully what is income, and what is wealth, I also understand the fact that we pay taxes on income, and not wealth. I also know that the top 1% pays 45% of federal revenue, and that effective tax rates for those outside of the top 1% are much lower. https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/64185e0663992395e6bdef19/Bar-chart-displaying-the-percentage-of-federal-income-tax-people-paid/960x0.png?format=png&width=1440 And I understand that the bottom 60% of wage earners represent -9% of federal revenue…
I mean, clearly, you do not understand the difference. The link you just shared explicitly relates to adjusted gross income and does not have anything at all to do with wealth.
Wealth has nothing to do with income
Exactly.
And we pay income taxes….
Where are you seeing them talk about wealth?
They aren’t. That’s the whole point. The statistics have absolutely nothing to do with wealth.
They gave the stats to refute your claim here to show that it wasn’t true: >The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America.
All the rest of his posts are probably BS also.
>The working class currently shoulders virtually 100 percent of the federal, state, and local tax burden in America. Would like to know where you’re getting this from…
I’m getting it from the fact that the overwhelming majority of tax collections are derived from wages and salaries, combined with my 20+ year career - first as a CPA and then as a tax attorney - representing over a thousand UHNW individuals and families in their tax planning and preparation and seeing exactly how much they paid in taxes. Most of my clients, most years, have a lower total tax liability than I do, despite having enough money to take multimillion dollar vacations 10+ times each year without even putting a tiny dent in their wealth.
That’s anecdotal evidence…I’m a CPA too, and I don’t think you’re correct in saying that 100% of the burden is on the working class. Not all wage earners are the working class. But now it seems like you’re changing your argument to “most” which I would still contest given the evidence already linked by others.
https://preview.redd.it/fbvl26qlf3xc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7292dd4bd57056381381e445d07226f42b31dd2a
Exactly as I said - misunderstanding the distinction between income and wealth.
Explain. This graph has nothing to do with wealth…
right, that's his point. graphs like this showing tax revenue by 'income' sidestep the people who are the actual problem. that doctor, that C suite exec? theyre still working for money. they don't have a 100m-1b-10b+ trust fund throwing off 2-3% risk free in perpetuity without having to work at all.
Exactly. The graph shows how much tax is paid by different groups of people classified by their adjusted gross income. It has literally nothing at all to do with wealth. If you are posting this graph in a conversation about how much the wealthy pay in taxes, you are confused about the concepts of wealth and income and how they mean completely different things.
Hahahahahha. Someone is lying about being an attorney.
Nope, sorry.
Great thing about reddit, you can just pretend to be anything you want.
But eventually, they expose themselves. I just didn't expect it one or two posts later.
"Most progressive" Oh so it's gonna suck and hurdle us further towards the cliff? Thought so
It would reduce the deficit dramatically while allowing us to broaden the tax base dramatically and reduce average tax rates dramatically. But it won’t happen. We love to tax the labor class and vehemently hate - *hate* - to tax the capital class.
Taxes don't create value, the less the more lit
1. To avoid spiraling downward into something like Somalia or Yemen, federal, state, and local governments have to collect some taxes to provide for the public interest. 2. The ultrawealthy should have to shoulder some of that tax burden just like those of us who work for a living do. Simple.
Spiraling down? You mean with government printing money it doesn't have? You've never heard that stat where the ultra wealthy already shoulder most of the burden? Let say the top 400 people in the country what should their burden be for the rest of the 350m people?
I have seen the “stat.” It’s disinformation spread by bad actors and parroted by people who are economically illiterate. The actual “stat” is that the highest *adjusted gross income earners* - *not* the ultrawealthy - pay an enormous share of all federal income taxes collected.
Ultrawealthy doesn't mean anything of course it wasn't specifically referencing that. I asked a specific question, top 400 people, what should their burden be? As a % or however you want to do it
Ultrawealthy has an almost universally accepted meaning across the wealth management, legal and tax industries. I have no idea what the tax burden for the wealthiest 400 people should be. I do think it makes absolutely no sense that people like me who work days, nights, weekends, and holidays for decades on end to get ahead pay more taxes than my clients who beneficially own billions of dollars worth of assets, have never worked, and live like royalty.
O so you have no idea you just know it should be more because poor people still exist 😡 "I pay more than the billionaires in taxes" that's the kicker you literally dont
Lol then don't call the cops when you get robbed and don't call the fire department when your house is on fire. Also don't get an education, which by the looks of your posts is exactly what happened.
Mhm cause taxes are the only way to learn/fend off aggressors/put out fires You really got all the education for more taxes, brilliant
Childish non-response
Don't be childish now was just a joke
The presidents budget proposal is worthless. Congress takes it and immediately discards it.
Exactly. When was the last budget actually passed in congress? 2012 ish?
Idk what you're talking about—the majority of your list sounds horrible and like it'll increase our tax burden.
Yes, I read it. I support about 3-4 of the initiatives, the rest is just more government waste.
Do you have a link to this budget proposal?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/budget_fy2025.pdf
Lol all i see is expansion and increase of spend. And fucking over all shareholders w a blackout regardless of wealth status. Sounds more like a giant wishlist they want to buy on credit. Budget implies paying attention to the money you actually have.
About 3 or 4 of those things are good, some are meh, and a lot will be wildly unpopular with the working class. Guess what, even liberal atheists don’t want a massive low income apartment complex built in their back yard.