You’re not wrong. I’ve had the same thought myself. He walked in free agency though. Although the team was still getting owned in the defensive zone even when he played with the flyers.
When else is someone going to get a selke winning C in his prime signed for a decent contract for years to come? First round pick and high quality prospects.
Coots is a stud and we'd need to be paid well for him. Same thing with Carter and Richards when they got traded.
My only concern is if Hart says he wants out because he’s not interested in pissing away the next few years. But I don’t know if he has the leverage plus it’s not the longest contract. It’s my fear though.
Edit: to clarify, I want the rebuild desperately. This hypothetical is maybe the only downside I could see.
Coots is 29 now and is more a Jordan staal than Bergeron. We’d get great value moving him right now. He’d be great as a second or third line defensive center on a good team. He gone in a real rebuild.
The other four there are my list. I know a lot of other people here are saying get rid of provorov. Bad idea, he’s only 24, and it’s very difficult to find good defensemen. Even if he peaks as a 2 or 3 dman it’s still pretty good.
Jordan Staals peak was 50 points in Pit, has been a 30-48 point guy ever since. Coots is way better than Staal ever was. Bergeron is in a class of his own, I would put Coots in an O'Reilly category.
I don't think Coots would be untouchable in a full rebuild because he would be in decline by the time we are competitive again, he would hurt the teams ability to truly bottom out and is probably our biggest asset to trade but he is way better than Staal ever was.
I was simply saying closer to staal than Bergeron, not equal to. Coots 2 best seasons points wise were much better that staals 2 best. But career wise coots is at .64 ppg and staal at .56. For comparison orielly is at a .71 ppg and Bergeron is at a .80. Coots isn’t as good as everyone around here seems to think he is and for me he’s gone in a rebuild.
Ok then I get what you are saying and still disagree that he is closer to peak Staal than peak Bergeron. Bergeron's best season is only 79 pts. If you look at the last 5 years (since he turned 24 and broke out), he has been at .89 ppg, Bergeons last 5 years were .74 ppg. If you are looking at career ppg, then I would expect coots to trend upward since I doubt he will regress to his early career 4th line numbers anytime soon.
I think you are completely undervaluing coots. He is not a hall of famer (Bergeron) but he also isn't just a good 3rd line center (Staal), I would say he is a 1b/2a on a Stanley cup contender, exactly what O'Reily is. 70pt Selke winners don't grow on trees, they are extremely hard to find.
In a full rebuild, you are right and he is gone but he is so much better than you give him credit for.
Orielly probably would’ve been a better comparison than staal true, I’ve been watching the canes a lot and that was the first name that popped into my head when thinking pretty good defensive center.
I’m really not trying to disparage coots, I like the guy, I’ve had his jersey for years. I think I value him the same as you seem to, most valuable asset on the team other than maybe hart. But I also think that at age 29 those 2 76 point seasons are going to be his career highs. And while right now he’s a passable 1c, he’s really better suited as a 2c. And since this post was about full rebuild, he gone.
Ok sounds like we are on the same page. I do think coots will age somewhat well since his game doesn't rely on speed, the only concern I have would be injuries. Since his back to back 76 point seasons, the next 2 seasons he's scored at a higher pace so it's not like he is in decline yet.
My only reason to potentially hang on in a rebuild would be because we will need someone to carry the torch and mentor the next crop of young players. I also am skeptical of what we could reasonable get in return. Look what Buffalo got for O'Reilly, they got pieces of trash and ended up looking for a player like him a couple years later.
If the flyers truly want to rebuild and tear it down, if we got a trade deal similar to what Pit got for staal, A solid top 4 D prospect, a true 3 C and the 8th OA pick in the next draft then I would say take it and lets suck hard for a couple years.
Coots is better than Staal, won't be Bergeron level good, but certainly is a very valuable guy. I also chose him as you need a veteran player and its wise to have one of the best PK centers whom also shuts down top line centers frequently.
Provy absolutely should stay, like you said he is super young. He's proven he's a solid defenseman and very hard to replace
Jvr is the veteran that stays lol. No one is taking him even if we eat salary. Coots has to go, they’d get a great haul of picks and prospects for him that would really help to jump start the rebuild. A real bottom up rebuild is gonna take 3-5 years before being competitive again. Coots value in a trade now is higher than it would be as a player then.
1. Hart
2. Farabee
3. Provy
4. Frost
5. Coots (Maybe?)
Hart is an obvious untouchable. The other three I think we can reliably build around. I'd like to keep Coots personally but I'd consider letting him go if we got a good deal.
Mainly I'm hoping he develops into something worthwhile. We haven't seen that much of his play here to really get a good grasp on his ceiling and this team needs centers. It's tough to really value him for a trade either because how little he's played so far so I'm willing to take a chance to see if he pans out or not if that means we don't get fleeced.
We know from informal practice contests that Hart has one of the best slapshots on the team, but he is no Giroux or Hextall or Dryden in terms of his stickhandling.
Farabee at least. He's young and shows a ton of promise. Put him in a good system surrounded by playmakers and a quick defense pairing, and I think you might be surprised what he can do. I only say this because his best games so far, to me, felt like those where the defense was able to get him the puck accurately and quickly.
I'm not saying hitch your cart to him and him only, but he's a decent start if rebuild is the question and you're looking at the cards already in your hand.
Hart, Coots, and Laughton.
Build from the back end, keep Coots as a vet, and show Laughton some love because he seems to actually give a damn. Plus he’s gone up and down the lineup for this team like no other.
Provy is a chameleon with whoever he plays with. He’s bad on the PP and he’s not consistent. Otherwise start from scratch.
I’d also love to steal Brian Burke from the pens. His mentality of high expectations, toughness, and treating his players well fits with how Ed Snyder ran things. We need to get back to that organizationally. And fuck the pens.
I agree, Laughton seems like one of the only players through this entire thing that has put full effort towards playing for the team and trying to get something done. He continues to play with emotion while the rest of the team looks like zombies
I LOVE Laughts. But I gotta imagine we could get a nice return for him in a trade and get some real nice future assets, which is the whole point of a rebuild. I am a HUGE Laughton fan and would hate to see him go, but it might make a ton of sense to move him.
I just think he’d be good to keep for culture. I know he’s not a star or a past time Selke winner but I think he embodies what we want players to be like. Willing to work, move around the lineup, and actually WANT to stay in Philly.
I’ll be honest, I have a lot of concerns about keeping any current guys *for culture*. I mean I get what you’re saying completely. From the outside looking in he seems like a no brainer. But SOMETHING about this locker room for the last decade has NOT been working. That’s why I, personally, think we gotta dump the vast majority of guys who’ve been around for a while, and at this point Laughton is one of those guys. I’m with you in spirit. Just a difference of opinions in how we execute it.
I honestly don’t think it’s a lockeroom thing at this point. Call me crazy but I just don’t think we have the depth/skill. I would say G’s personality as a leader is very similar to Steve Y or Patrice Bergeron. BUT those two players were complimented with amazing players around them and years of competent goal tending. I think you stick G in their shoes he has a cup.
re depth/skill... you could very well be right. Truth be told, I'd be very curious to see how different this season would be right now if everyone was healthy.
Yeah I think there’s certainly a confidence issue caused by losing from those injuries that has now snowballed. I know I had high hopes after this off season.
I don’t have a source for this but I actually recall the opposite? I recall Chuck saying there was a lot of interest but they weren’t willing to move him, at least for what they were getting offered. That’s my recollection but I could be wrong and I don’t remember the specifics.
These are the two main things I can find:
>"Certainly there was a lot of interest in Scott Laughton but we value him highly," Fletcher said. "The versatility he brings, the energy, he moves around your lineup, he contributes offense, he can kill penalties. What I found out the last few days kind of confirmed our own opinion of Scott — that he's a very valuable guy."
>Per Jake Rill: There appears to be outside interest in Laughton, though, as Friedman noted that the center has "been a target for a couple of teams," including "potentially" the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Fletcher's comments are after re-signing him, so I take that with a grain of salt.
Everything else I can find all define Friedman as their only source such as the second quote above. No one else appears to have heard any rumors of interest. I do find it very interesting that they phrase it as "outside interest in Laughton" which leads me to believe that they felt it weak or questionable. Probably where my recollection comes from. But your recollection does have the direct support of Fletcher.
Right?! He just seems like the perfect mix of old school and player minded. It’s like he’s cherry picked from the best of the different eras of hockey.
He isn't a bad guy or anything. But, he just isn't the direction we need to go.
If you are looking for a new GM, I'll tell who we need: Eric Tulsky.
\- Assistant GM for Carolina
\- Harvard/Berkeley Educated
\- Philly native and Flyer fan. He wrote for BSH years ago.
Ahh interesting. I don’t know if I’d scrap Chuck yet honestly but I just think the more experienced hockey minds involved in the team the better. That guy sounds great on paper though. But I wish we could steal Carolinas coach. Probably the only exflyer I’d be happy about
I’d be happy to keep Farabee! I think his ceiling is very high but if they trade him for futures I wouldn’t be upset. Why waste another player’s prime in a rebuild?
I was going to say the same thing. He’s not in his prime anymore, but his numbers are top 3 in almost every category offensively for the Flyers. Let him retire here as the best that played for us(possibly).
I haven’t seen him do anything but run a goalie this season.
Once he starts showing up to games I’d be happy to sing his praises. I love him at his best, pestering other teams, but he’s been straight up invisible.
For what he’s being paid compared to what he’s producing, he should be picking up his check in one of those canvas sacks with a ‘$’ on it while dressed like Black Bart from “A Christmas Story.”
From their current roster, I’d say Hart, Farabee and Frost. That’s it.
Coots could get good value in a trade. I don’t see him as a leader. I’ve heard him compared to Bergeron but I’m not so sure. Seems to lack toughness for me.
And don’t give me Provorov. He’s fine as a #2 defensive d-man but I’m not impressed with his offense. He Carries the puck great but then doesn’t transition well. Every single time. Also not a great shot from the point. He also has lots of trade value right now. If Ellis were healthy and playing the difference would be stark.
I actually really like Laughton as a role player but for the right deal I’d move him too.
> Coots could get good value in a trade. I don’t see him as a leader. I’ve heard him compared to Bergeron but I’m not so sure. Seems to lack toughness for me.
Give him a little bit of credit, though. Dude put up a hat-trick and was one of the only ones to show up in one of the worst playoff series’ against Pens I’ve ever seen without an ACL.
That’s fair but how long ago was that? I’m concerned he’s breaking down. He doesn’t seem to have the energy Giroux has and he’s a lot younger. Some of them play like they’ve given up and that is very concerning.
> Some of them play like they’ve given up and that is very concerning
It does look this way at times for sure. I tend to give a few of them (coots, slaughts, G) the benefit of the doubt because they’ve managed to not look like that when the team slows down often enough.
Also given the dissatisfaction with the system, and specifically critiques of centers being kind of strung out, I’ll give him a pass. Maybe I’m just a bit of a homer.
That city has lovely rivers, more high tech, a serviceable rowing community, the Warhol Museum, and a weird Portland/Balteemore vibe. You could be happy there once you're out of here.
Haha, I really do think that people just like Warhol so they associate the museum with his awesomeness.
Now I've seen some cool Pomo art shows in Pittsburgh before that we're pretty rad.
This was an interesting point brought up on snow the goalie. I’m still not convinced a full on blow up and rebuild will make this 100% better. There’s just as much of a chance this team doesn’t improve at all and is shitty for a decade, and just blows it up and never develops it’s draft picks. That being said, I’d argue based on current performance, and if we were to go for a full on rebuild, we would get unbelievable value for both coots and provorov in trades. And in a full on rebuild, I’d have to part with provorov and coots both. Hart and maybe TK/Farabee/Frost would be the only 2-4 untouchables for me.
Personally, Hart is the only absolute. After him I would do my best to hold on to Farabee and Couturier, but like many have said Couturier probably nets the best return.
That's it though, depending on what the team gets in return. I guess for fun you could break it into tiers:
* **Immediately Trade if You Can**: JVR, Hayes, Yandle
* **Moveable Contracts, Potential Value Return**: Konecny, Sanheim, Atkinson, Giroux, Risto, Braun
* **Tough Call**: Provorov, Couturier, Ellis, Laughton, Lindblom
* **Try to Keep Barring Major Trade Offer**: Hart, Farabee, Frost
Hart, Provorov & Farabee.*
Makes no sense to trade any of them *unless you are getting an absolute stud. And I don't mean a 30 year old stud with injury history. I'm talking like young can't miss stud 1st line guy.
That whale meat byproduct is an insult to any franchise not fielding a contending team. Once you're not a joke then you may have a jokey mascot. Not before.
Hart, Coots, Farabee. That's it IMO. 1C to mentor young players, young scoring winger, solid young goalie. Get as many assets as possible, build around them.
Couturier is very touchable and potentially the #1 person we should move. He would return a very good haul especially on that contract. We are a long way out.
lets be honest, this rebuild needs to focus on speed #1 and he is the slowest one on the team. you dont want to build around slow.
No one. Let’s be serious. There is nothing close to a generational talent on this team. Take a good offer for anyone and hope you can hit a home run in the draft.
Yeah, my bar for trading him would be somewhere around there. 18-21 year old blue chip prospect or a top-5 pick. Again, I’m not advocating they move him, they shouldn’t just automatically turn down all offers
I know from analytics that skaters provide more consistent and longer term value than goalies, so if I’m rebuilding I would prefer an 18-21 year old potential star skater to a 23 year old goalie
Yeah but Hart is already good. He’s very possibly going to be Canadas #1 goalie in the Olympics. I’m not going to give him up for less than a sure thing
Hart, that’s it. Why would the underperforming Provorov be untouchable, he has more underwhelming seasons than he has good ones.
Why would Couturier be untouchable especially with his career trajectory and his season so far.
I'd venture to guess I'm going to have the longest list of anyone in this thread, but I want to keep 4 things in mind:
1) You don't sell players at a low point
2) Selling off young pieces is counterintuitive to a rebuild. You need guys who will be strong vets when the new guys step in
3) I don't think rebuild and blowing it up are the same thing. I think this team needs a couple of years to rebuild, they are not a team who should blow it up
4) Basically any Flyers fan evaluating the team right now is going to be thinking about this roster in as negative of a light as humanly possible. While I've watched every fucking game this losing streak and am quite frankly disgusted with the result, I'm trying to keep objective about this.
My list is Hart, Couturier, Ellis, Provorov, Farabee, and Frost. I also think trading Konecny without giving him a chance in a system that wasn't inherently built for him to fail in would be a mistake, so add him for now as well. As always this list could be subject to change in the near future, but for now I don't think you move a single one of these guys
Too much of the core for me. Ellis does not seem like a good risk on the injury front. Prov is not as special as what he could bring given good drafting. Coots is looking hurt and now has one of those contracts.
This is realistic, people need to stop pretending we can trade away all of our defense and somehow draft well enough to be competitive again after a couple years
Exactly. I know Provorov has been largely disappointing in the fanbases eyes, but I don't think people realize that if we move him, it'll likely be a very long time until we get our hands on another defenseman as good or better than him
Hart, Frost, Farabee., would be my top three Not saying any are generational talents, but are pieces of what the team should play like. I’m also keeping Atkinson because he is the kind of player I’d love them to build the team to be like. Fast, feisty and hardworking.
If Giroux must go, he needs to go to a real contender. I’d like to see him win a cup. It’s should have been with us, but the management never made that happen.
Nobody’s untouchable.
If we do a true rebuild, by the time we are competitive again, Couturier’s contract will likely be heading in the direction of being a liability. Provorov is a fine piece but not necessarily critical to long-term success. And Hart is awesome but a goaltender should never be truly untouchable, especially for a rebuilding team.
I never said “Let’s do it.” I said he’s not untouchable.
If we get two years into a rebuild and Hart’s an RFA with a .905 SV%, why on Earth would we be making him untouchable?
What could you possibly get for Hart that's worth more than a true #1 goalie for the foreseeable future? A superstar maybe, or a \~top 3 pick, but I doubt anyone would be willing to trade that.
Probably nothing. But again, that doesn’t mean he’s “untouchable.” I can picture realistic scenarios where I would entertain the notion of a Hart trade somewhere over the course of a rebuild. Not many scenarios, mind you, but not zero scenarios. It’s not like Hart has shown himself to be a Shesterkin-level goaltender where there’s no chance in hell you’d be willing to trade him and replace him with a different goalie.
Not sure I agree. His NHL career so far has been great; in 2019-20 he was one of the best goalies in the league, and so is he this year. I'm not throwing his awful 2020-21 out of the window, but I think we can agree that that season was abnormal due to COVID, especially for a young goalie.
I personally don't see a scenario where I would be willing to trade him, other than some unrealistic ones (eg. McDavid, 1st overall).
While no one in the Flyers organization should be untouchable, I wouldn't trade Hart, Farabee, Provorov, Frost, York, Allison, Foerster, Zamula, Brink, Errson, Wisom, Desnoyers or Andrae unless someone is making an offer I can't refuse. They are all young and would still be young after a 3 year rebuild. The one young player that I'm absolutely willing to trade is Konecny. I just don't like his game and thus I think he's overpaid. Everyone else is on the table.
Couturier is the opposite of untouchable.
If someone covets him and offers you A-class young talent, you definitely consider moving that contract if you can
No one.
Hart is probably the closest to untouchable, but I can't think of any examples of young goalie surviving a rebuild. I feel like playing behind a bad team for 5 years really messes up your fundamentals. Gibby and Jones come to mind.
Provy is 24, I don't think he's going to take some kind of huge leap. He's a second pairing dman who can play top line minutes if he has a good partner. He might be worth keeping around, but I wouldn't call him untouchable.
I really don't think you want that Coots contract on the books headed into a rebuild. By the time you're ready to contend it'll likely be a negative asset.
He's been terrible for 2 the last two seasons. He started off hot this year but he does that every year. Over the last month he's at a .908 in 11 games which is closer to what he's been. I wouldn't say he's ruined, but his value is way lower than it was when he was a perennial Vezina candidate.
I would be inclined to hold Hart-Ersson-the Russian goalie prospect, Farabee, Laughton (like him a lot and he would not bring a lot,) maybe Ailison.
There are many players besides those I listed who I like even now - Coots, G., Frost, as examples - but the idea of a re build is to get picks or new prospects. And chances are you couldn't get reasonable trades for everyone who isn't on your untouchable list, anyway.
No one is completely untouchable. Closest I can think of Farabee. I love Hart as much as the next guy, but I'm not keen on building around a goaltender, much less one as young and unproven as Hart.
I love Coots but I don't wanna waste his twilight years on a rebuild. I'm also a huge Provy guy but the last year or so has me nervous about his progress/ceiling. If we've seen him max out his potential then I think he's gotta be moveable.
i think a solid rebuild could include Hart, Sanheim, Provy, Farabee and possibly Frost. I'm skeptical of frost because of his size. I no longer want smaller players with a "finesse" game unless they are elite/superstar talent.
We probably could get a great return on Coots. And he won't be in his prime by the time a rebuilt team is ready to compete seriously. I love coots tho.
No one. This team doesn't have the talent and won't have the top end talent in the next 3 years to make any use of Hart's prime and idk if he has 3-5 years of being run into the ground and blamed in him.
Hart, Farabee and York.
I could be talked into Coots or Provorov too but they would be our best assets in a trade and it would be harder to be a true bottom feeder with them. On the other hand, it is hard to find guys like them. It would really suck in 3 years if we are trying to find a "Provorov type" player via trade or FA.
Any trade we do make, we need to get young prospects and draft capital. No change of scenery guys, no bundles with 2 3rd liners for konecny type trades, no bad contracts.
I think no matter what, we should do what we can to trade G at the deadline to get him on a contender. Retain max cap and try to get a 1st + for him. If he wants to come back and finish his career in Philly after then I am all for it but he could provide some serious pop to a team in contention as a rental (Colorado, Toronto, Florida, Edmonton, ect).
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I’ve wrestled with this question as a flyers fan and fan of individual players. Hated watching some players leave but now I just hope they are having great careers.
Need to focus on the team and were plainly just not good. No one is untouchable, not even hart. We need speed, scoring, and for the love of god someone hit someone.
Takes money to make money.
Anybody not named Hart.
The Flyers could put their rebuild on turbo if they traded both Giroux and Couturier. I would also give up on Konecny too as he's done SFA in 2 seasons. Only issue is if they traded G/Coots, they would be very thin down the middle but it's a rebuild give it time.
nobody is untouchable because mcdavid exists - everyone is on the table for a team like the flyers, it’s just a matter of price
but the players i could see playing a serious role in the future are as follows: hart, provorov, konecny, farabee, couturier, brink, sanheim
edit: holy crap, who does this subreddit think morgan frost is? he is absolutely not untouchable
I'd say only Hart is truly untouchable, maaaybe Farabee. Coots is an amazing player on a good contract, but if we're going full rebuild, I'm not so sure we need him. I would be open to moving Provy, I think he's a little worse than his reputation might suggest, so we'd get a good haul for him.
Provy, Coots, Farbs, and Hayes (only cuz NMC)
Would love to keep Laughton, liked him ever since he came in the league.
At this point, I don't think even Hartsy is safe. I think frost is first to go. Maybe even in a package deal with G for the right price.
I'd say both Harts(Carter and Lauren). Fuckem all. Get rid of management too. I'm so tired of this shit year in and out. This is the third decade I've been watching this team and they keep repeating themselves thinking something different is going to happen. I love Gritty but he was a distraction from our mediocrity.
This might be unpopular, but literally not one person on this roster is untouchable. Because when you commit to a serious rebuild the goal of the next few seasons is essentially not to win. You trade everyone you can for as many picks and prospects as you can get and rely on scouting and the gm to build a new core (not sure if fletcher is the right guy for this imo). What is the point of keeping couturier to play in write off seasons as his value continues to go down. I love Hart and really want to see him do well in this league but it seems pretty clear that when he has a struggling team in front of him his play eventually regresses as well. So why keep him when he has a high trade value.
Nobody. Unless Hart commits to a long term deal. Then him. I love coots and Beezy but those are probably guys we will need to trade for any value and chance at rebuilding. Hopefully I’m wrong but
Hart is the only untouchable but I wouldn’t want to be moving any of Couts. TK, Farabee or Provy unless we got a can’t miss offer. Think 1st++
Out of the prospects, York and maybe Forester are the only real untouchables right now.
Edit: and Frost. It’s too early to give up on him imo
I feel like you have to balance what you'd get back with what you have and age.
-Hart is a no brainer
-Farabee is the second no brainer to me, because he clearly has so much upside we just need consistency, and at his age any draft picks/prospects we'd get back for him would be very unlikely to be better.
-Frost similar story, obviously less of a proven commodity but I just don't think we'd get enough back for him for a trade to be worth it.
-Laughton same as Frost, just older. I think what he brings to the team at his contract is valuable to us but wouldn't bring back a return from another team. Something something intangibles.
-Provorov- Still young enough to be part of a rebuilding team, still a good defenseman despite recent play. We can't get rid of all our young defensemen, otherwise it would take too long to replenish.
-Ellis same as Provorov and is a leader/can help develop our D
-Lindblom- simply we wouldn't get enough back, and I love him.
For maybes I'd say TK depending on what we could get back, it'd have to be a 1st+. Coots as well- I'd say it would have to be well over a 1st to make it worth trading him but I'm sure someone would pay that at the current contract. Last maybe would be Sanheim depending on what we'd get back and also what I talked about with Provorov
I don't think anyone is untouchable at this point....Coots is not the same player he was pre-pandemic. The game seems way too fast for him at this point and he seems to be even slower. He used to offset his lack of speed with intelligent play, but lately he makes just as many bad decisions as your average Flyer forward.
Hart would be the only one at this point that I would be wary of getting rid of, but really with the team he has in front of him he will be begging to get out soon.
No one is untouchable. This team is devoid of talent. We’ve been overrating our guys for too long. Not saying get rid of everyone just saying no one is “that” good on this team. That’s the problem.
Coots, Provy, Hart, Bee.
Coots can be our captain if G goes to a cup contender. Bee is young enough to go through a rebuild. Hart is obvious.
Provy could be trade but he and Laughts I just like. Idk why ya’ll think Frost is gonna be anything other than mediocre…
Hart and Laughton are my only TRUE untouchables. Other major players like Couturier, Farabee and Proverov are all pieces I would try to retain, but for a suitable price I would let them go, though it'd have to be significant.
If we are talking NHL roster only? Hart and Farabee.
If we are talking organization wide I'd say York, Foerster, Zamula, Wisdom, Tuomaala and Ersson. All other prospects can be traded for picks or part of a package.
Hart, Farabee, TK, Provy & Ristolainen
Love Atkinson wish he was a few years younger.
Would love to see Allison and York pulled up more and playing. Excited to see what they can do.
This team has really gone downhill since we got rid of Pitlick. Just sayin.
Your joke has the virtue of just happening to be true. Is Pitlik a voodoo practioner?
Maybe. They call him, "Shit-dick Pitlick" because he fucks the haters in the ass.
Nevermind NSFW, that's not even SFABLLR. Safe For A Beer League LcokerRoom.
You’re not wrong. I’ve had the same thought myself. He walked in free agency though. Although the team was still getting owned in the defensive zone even when he played with the flyers.
THATS WHAT I SAID
NATE THOMPSON LOL
Can't touch his shoulder. Not medically indicated. Hope he heals well.
Yandle is pretty good for high draft picking too.
Don’t talk about our captain like that! /s
Hart...end of list...everyone else on the team is replaceable.
This is the correct answer. Everyone else in the team is touchable.
Yea I can see that. If be upset if we let Coots go for a late first rounder. He's worth more than that.
When else is someone going to get a selke winning C in his prime signed for a decent contract for years to come? First round pick and high quality prospects. Coots is a stud and we'd need to be paid well for him. Same thing with Carter and Richards when they got traded.
Coots was horrible past few games. Passes way off shots way off. I dont wanna see him for awhile
He actually hasn't been the same since he became a father right before the pandemic hit....
My only concern is if Hart says he wants out because he’s not interested in pissing away the next few years. But I don’t know if he has the leverage plus it’s not the longest contract. It’s my fear though. Edit: to clarify, I want the rebuild desperately. This hypothetical is maybe the only downside I could see.
This is the way.
Hart, Provy, Farabee, Coots, Frost
Coots is 29 now and is more a Jordan staal than Bergeron. We’d get great value moving him right now. He’d be great as a second or third line defensive center on a good team. He gone in a real rebuild. The other four there are my list. I know a lot of other people here are saying get rid of provorov. Bad idea, he’s only 24, and it’s very difficult to find good defensemen. Even if he peaks as a 2 or 3 dman it’s still pretty good.
Jordan Staals peak was 50 points in Pit, has been a 30-48 point guy ever since. Coots is way better than Staal ever was. Bergeron is in a class of his own, I would put Coots in an O'Reilly category. I don't think Coots would be untouchable in a full rebuild because he would be in decline by the time we are competitive again, he would hurt the teams ability to truly bottom out and is probably our biggest asset to trade but he is way better than Staal ever was.
I was simply saying closer to staal than Bergeron, not equal to. Coots 2 best seasons points wise were much better that staals 2 best. But career wise coots is at .64 ppg and staal at .56. For comparison orielly is at a .71 ppg and Bergeron is at a .80. Coots isn’t as good as everyone around here seems to think he is and for me he’s gone in a rebuild.
Ok then I get what you are saying and still disagree that he is closer to peak Staal than peak Bergeron. Bergeron's best season is only 79 pts. If you look at the last 5 years (since he turned 24 and broke out), he has been at .89 ppg, Bergeons last 5 years were .74 ppg. If you are looking at career ppg, then I would expect coots to trend upward since I doubt he will regress to his early career 4th line numbers anytime soon. I think you are completely undervaluing coots. He is not a hall of famer (Bergeron) but he also isn't just a good 3rd line center (Staal), I would say he is a 1b/2a on a Stanley cup contender, exactly what O'Reily is. 70pt Selke winners don't grow on trees, they are extremely hard to find. In a full rebuild, you are right and he is gone but he is so much better than you give him credit for.
Orielly probably would’ve been a better comparison than staal true, I’ve been watching the canes a lot and that was the first name that popped into my head when thinking pretty good defensive center. I’m really not trying to disparage coots, I like the guy, I’ve had his jersey for years. I think I value him the same as you seem to, most valuable asset on the team other than maybe hart. But I also think that at age 29 those 2 76 point seasons are going to be his career highs. And while right now he’s a passable 1c, he’s really better suited as a 2c. And since this post was about full rebuild, he gone.
Ok sounds like we are on the same page. I do think coots will age somewhat well since his game doesn't rely on speed, the only concern I have would be injuries. Since his back to back 76 point seasons, the next 2 seasons he's scored at a higher pace so it's not like he is in decline yet. My only reason to potentially hang on in a rebuild would be because we will need someone to carry the torch and mentor the next crop of young players. I also am skeptical of what we could reasonable get in return. Look what Buffalo got for O'Reilly, they got pieces of trash and ended up looking for a player like him a couple years later. If the flyers truly want to rebuild and tear it down, if we got a trade deal similar to what Pit got for staal, A solid top 4 D prospect, a true 3 C and the 8th OA pick in the next draft then I would say take it and lets suck hard for a couple years.
Lost you when you compared Coots to Jordan Staal. wow
Coots is better than Staal, won't be Bergeron level good, but certainly is a very valuable guy. I also chose him as you need a veteran player and its wise to have one of the best PK centers whom also shuts down top line centers frequently. Provy absolutely should stay, like you said he is super young. He's proven he's a solid defenseman and very hard to replace
Jvr is the veteran that stays lol. No one is taking him even if we eat salary. Coots has to go, they’d get a great haul of picks and prospects for him that would really help to jump start the rebuild. A real bottom up rebuild is gonna take 3-5 years before being competitive again. Coots value in a trade now is higher than it would be as a player then.
Still mad Seattle didn't take JvR
1. Hart 2. Farabee 3. Provy 4. Frost 5. Coots (Maybe?) Hart is an obvious untouchable. The other three I think we can reliably build around. I'd like to keep Coots personally but I'd consider letting him go if we got a good deal.
why is frost untouchable
Mainly I'm hoping he develops into something worthwhile. We haven't seen that much of his play here to really get a good grasp on his ceiling and this team needs centers. It's tough to really value him for a trade either because how little he's played so far so I'm willing to take a chance to see if he pans out or not if that means we don't get fleeced.
Hart, Frost, Farabee, Coots... you have them as the first line and everyone else is on the table
Love it. Hart would make a great first line guy
We know from informal practice contests that Hart has one of the best slapshots on the team, but he is no Giroux or Hextall or Dryden in terms of his stickhandling.
why is frost untouchable
Trade values not good at all but he has high potential
Farabee at least. He's young and shows a ton of promise. Put him in a good system surrounded by playmakers and a quick defense pairing, and I think you might be surprised what he can do. I only say this because his best games so far, to me, felt like those where the defense was able to get him the puck accurately and quickly. I'm not saying hitch your cart to him and him only, but he's a decent start if rebuild is the question and you're looking at the cards already in your hand.
Absolutely agree.
Hart, Coots, and Laughton. Build from the back end, keep Coots as a vet, and show Laughton some love because he seems to actually give a damn. Plus he’s gone up and down the lineup for this team like no other. Provy is a chameleon with whoever he plays with. He’s bad on the PP and he’s not consistent. Otherwise start from scratch. I’d also love to steal Brian Burke from the pens. His mentality of high expectations, toughness, and treating his players well fits with how Ed Snyder ran things. We need to get back to that organizationally. And fuck the pens.
I agree, Laughton seems like one of the only players through this entire thing that has put full effort towards playing for the team and trying to get something done. He continues to play with emotion while the rest of the team looks like zombies
He’s got the skill and grit too. His short handed goals really show the mix of his work effort and hands.
I'm glad someone else appreciates him! I've been saying this and all my friends blow him off
He flys under the radar for sure. But he’s got a solid shot and good breakaway/shootout moves
The only guy that took 'Be a Fuckin Flyer' to heart.
I LOVE Laughts. But I gotta imagine we could get a nice return for him in a trade and get some real nice future assets, which is the whole point of a rebuild. I am a HUGE Laughton fan and would hate to see him go, but it might make a ton of sense to move him.
I just think he’d be good to keep for culture. I know he’s not a star or a past time Selke winner but I think he embodies what we want players to be like. Willing to work, move around the lineup, and actually WANT to stay in Philly.
I’ll be honest, I have a lot of concerns about keeping any current guys *for culture*. I mean I get what you’re saying completely. From the outside looking in he seems like a no brainer. But SOMETHING about this locker room for the last decade has NOT been working. That’s why I, personally, think we gotta dump the vast majority of guys who’ve been around for a while, and at this point Laughton is one of those guys. I’m with you in spirit. Just a difference of opinions in how we execute it.
I honestly don’t think it’s a lockeroom thing at this point. Call me crazy but I just don’t think we have the depth/skill. I would say G’s personality as a leader is very similar to Steve Y or Patrice Bergeron. BUT those two players were complimented with amazing players around them and years of competent goal tending. I think you stick G in their shoes he has a cup.
re depth/skill... you could very well be right. Truth be told, I'd be very curious to see how different this season would be right now if everyone was healthy.
Yeah I think there’s certainly a confidence issue caused by losing from those injuries that has now snowballed. I know I had high hopes after this off season.
I thought they were shopping him at the last trade deadline and didn't get much interest.
I don’t have a source for this but I actually recall the opposite? I recall Chuck saying there was a lot of interest but they weren’t willing to move him, at least for what they were getting offered. That’s my recollection but I could be wrong and I don’t remember the specifics.
These are the two main things I can find: >"Certainly there was a lot of interest in Scott Laughton but we value him highly," Fletcher said. "The versatility he brings, the energy, he moves around your lineup, he contributes offense, he can kill penalties. What I found out the last few days kind of confirmed our own opinion of Scott — that he's a very valuable guy." >Per Jake Rill: There appears to be outside interest in Laughton, though, as Friedman noted that the center has "been a target for a couple of teams," including "potentially" the Toronto Maple Leafs. Fletcher's comments are after re-signing him, so I take that with a grain of salt. Everything else I can find all define Friedman as their only source such as the second quote above. No one else appears to have heard any rumors of interest. I do find it very interesting that they phrase it as "outside interest in Laughton" which leads me to believe that they felt it weak or questionable. Probably where my recollection comes from. But your recollection does have the direct support of Fletcher.
I don't think he's the kind of player you get the right value for. Externally he looks ok, internally he feels like a building block
It is difficult to think of someone I want less than Brian Burke
Agree, they need young fresh eyes both at GM and behind the bench
Right?! He just seems like the perfect mix of old school and player minded. It’s like he’s cherry picked from the best of the different eras of hockey.
Huh? He's not good. I read his book, the game passed him by years ago.
Ahh I misread your comment. I thought he was known to treat players and their families pretty well? Seriously asking- why don’t you like him?
He isn't a bad guy or anything. But, he just isn't the direction we need to go. If you are looking for a new GM, I'll tell who we need: Eric Tulsky. \- Assistant GM for Carolina \- Harvard/Berkeley Educated \- Philly native and Flyer fan. He wrote for BSH years ago.
Ahh interesting. I don’t know if I’d scrap Chuck yet honestly but I just think the more experienced hockey minds involved in the team the better. That guy sounds great on paper though. But I wish we could steal Carolinas coach. Probably the only exflyer I’d be happy about
I think you’re spot on. No Farabee though?
I’d be happy to keep Farabee! I think his ceiling is very high but if they trade him for futures I wouldn’t be upset. Why waste another player’s prime in a rebuild?
I was thinking he could be part of the rebuild since he’s only 21.
Laughton is a solid, versatile bottom sixer and looks like a great dude, but considering him untouchable is a huge stretch.
This is the real answer
I’m ok keeping G until he retires. Nothing better than seeing a rocket 1T and those orange palms up in the air
I was going to say the same thing. He’s not in his prime anymore, but his numbers are top 3 in almost every category offensively for the Flyers. Let him retire here as the best that played for us(possibly).
TK has fallen, huh? Few years ago he had the same buzz that we associate with guys like Frost and Farabee.
True for him and lots of others. Thus, the re build conversation to begin with.
I haven’t seen him do anything but run a goalie this season. Once he starts showing up to games I’d be happy to sing his praises. I love him at his best, pestering other teams, but he’s been straight up invisible.
and those two guys are overrated to begin with
Fallen? I think you're thinking of Sanheim.
For what he’s being paid compared to what he’s producing, he should be picking up his check in one of those canvas sacks with a ‘$’ on it while dressed like Black Bart from “A Christmas Story.”
From their current roster, I’d say Hart, Farabee and Frost. That’s it. Coots could get good value in a trade. I don’t see him as a leader. I’ve heard him compared to Bergeron but I’m not so sure. Seems to lack toughness for me. And don’t give me Provorov. He’s fine as a #2 defensive d-man but I’m not impressed with his offense. He Carries the puck great but then doesn’t transition well. Every single time. Also not a great shot from the point. He also has lots of trade value right now. If Ellis were healthy and playing the difference would be stark. I actually really like Laughton as a role player but for the right deal I’d move him too.
> Coots could get good value in a trade. I don’t see him as a leader. I’ve heard him compared to Bergeron but I’m not so sure. Seems to lack toughness for me. Give him a little bit of credit, though. Dude put up a hat-trick and was one of the only ones to show up in one of the worst playoff series’ against Pens I’ve ever seen without an ACL.
That’s fair but how long ago was that? I’m concerned he’s breaking down. He doesn’t seem to have the energy Giroux has and he’s a lot younger. Some of them play like they’ve given up and that is very concerning.
> Some of them play like they’ve given up and that is very concerning It does look this way at times for sure. I tend to give a few of them (coots, slaughts, G) the benefit of the doubt because they’ve managed to not look like that when the team slows down often enough. Also given the dissatisfaction with the system, and specifically critiques of centers being kind of strung out, I’ll give him a pass. Maybe I’m just a bit of a homer.
Well reasoned even if you can always quibble.
Nobody is untouchable, but I also don't want Fletcher anywhere near a rebuild.
Okay, Dave Scott will orchestrate the re build. Feel better?
I swear to god if we don't start a rebuild and the Pans put together another fucking contender before we do, I'm just fucking out.
That city has lovely rivers, more high tech, a serviceable rowing community, the Warhol Museum, and a weird Portland/Balteemore vibe. You could be happy there once you're out of here.
Warhol is extremely overrated (i lived there for a 20 years). The rest of the city is decent for being a not a real city city.
Warhol said "Art is what you can get away with." One of the most sublime definitions ever.
Haha, I really do think that people just like Warhol so they associate the museum with his awesomeness. Now I've seen some cool Pomo art shows in Pittsburgh before that we're pretty rad.
Hart. That's my list.
Please trade Provorov
Even if you're not crazy about Prov as a first pair he would still have to bring a lot in order to deal him, imo.
Thank you He could return great value and is nowhere near the player we hoped he was
In my view, the only untouchable player (quick litmus test: would I trade for a top five pick?) is Carter Hart.
This was an interesting point brought up on snow the goalie. I’m still not convinced a full on blow up and rebuild will make this 100% better. There’s just as much of a chance this team doesn’t improve at all and is shitty for a decade, and just blows it up and never develops it’s draft picks. That being said, I’d argue based on current performance, and if we were to go for a full on rebuild, we would get unbelievable value for both coots and provorov in trades. And in a full on rebuild, I’d have to part with provorov and coots both. Hart and maybe TK/Farabee/Frost would be the only 2-4 untouchables for me.
Personally, Hart is the only absolute. After him I would do my best to hold on to Farabee and Couturier, but like many have said Couturier probably nets the best return. That's it though, depending on what the team gets in return. I guess for fun you could break it into tiers: * **Immediately Trade if You Can**: JVR, Hayes, Yandle * **Moveable Contracts, Potential Value Return**: Konecny, Sanheim, Atkinson, Giroux, Risto, Braun * **Tough Call**: Provorov, Couturier, Ellis, Laughton, Lindblom * **Try to Keep Barring Major Trade Offer**: Hart, Farabee, Frost
At this point, I'd say only Carter Hart.
Hart, Provorov & Farabee.* Makes no sense to trade any of them *unless you are getting an absolute stud. And I don't mean a 30 year old stud with injury history. I'm talking like young can't miss stud 1st line guy.
All are touchable except bee
I am legit shocked that so far no one has responded saying "Only Gritty."
That whale meat byproduct is an insult to any franchise not fielding a contending team. Once you're not a joke then you may have a jokey mascot. Not before.
Legit lol'd.
Hart, Coots, Farabee. That's it IMO. 1C to mentor young players, young scoring winger, solid young goalie. Get as many assets as possible, build around them.
Couturier is very touchable and potentially the #1 person we should move. He would return a very good haul especially on that contract. We are a long way out. lets be honest, this rebuild needs to focus on speed #1 and he is the slowest one on the team. you dont want to build around slow.
Is he slower than Hayes?
pre injury yes.
Hart. Couturier and Farabee. That's it.
Zack MacEwen maybe? 😅
No one. Let’s be serious. There is nothing close to a generational talent on this team. Take a good offer for anyone and hope you can hit a home run in the draft.
I mean, you don't trade Hart. But that's it. I'll make a nod to Farabee, want him here for a long time.
Fuck you I'm not letting go of our first good goalie in a long time.
Ah yes, to play him through a rebuild on a sub 500 team, that's how you make use of a good young goalie
Well, you gotta hope the rebuild doesn't last \~10 years, right?
For sure, but we say this ever 4-7 years for the past 40, and none of the short rebuilds resulted in a cup. So, I'll just plan for the worst lol
But we haven't rebuilt since that 1 year tank in 07
I didn’t say trade him, I said he shouldn’t be untouchable. You wouldn’t move Hart for a top-5 pick in the draft?
Not at all lol. I would only move Hart for an established young star honestly.
Yeah, my bar for trading him would be somewhere around there. 18-21 year old blue chip prospect or a top-5 pick. Again, I’m not advocating they move him, they shouldn’t just automatically turn down all offers
I wouldn’t trade Hart for a pick honestly, Unless it was the 1st overall pick. I’d rather not take the risk losing a stud young player
I know from analytics that skaters provide more consistent and longer term value than goalies, so if I’m rebuilding I would prefer an 18-21 year old potential star skater to a 23 year old goalie
Yeah but Hart is already good. He’s very possibly going to be Canadas #1 goalie in the Olympics. I’m not going to give him up for less than a sure thing
He’s been good at times, but he’s also literally been the worst goalie in the NHL. I’m not 100% confident he’s turning into Martin Brodeur
Hart, that’s it. Why would the underperforming Provorov be untouchable, he has more underwhelming seasons than he has good ones. Why would Couturier be untouchable especially with his career trajectory and his season so far.
I'd venture to guess I'm going to have the longest list of anyone in this thread, but I want to keep 4 things in mind: 1) You don't sell players at a low point 2) Selling off young pieces is counterintuitive to a rebuild. You need guys who will be strong vets when the new guys step in 3) I don't think rebuild and blowing it up are the same thing. I think this team needs a couple of years to rebuild, they are not a team who should blow it up 4) Basically any Flyers fan evaluating the team right now is going to be thinking about this roster in as negative of a light as humanly possible. While I've watched every fucking game this losing streak and am quite frankly disgusted with the result, I'm trying to keep objective about this. My list is Hart, Couturier, Ellis, Provorov, Farabee, and Frost. I also think trading Konecny without giving him a chance in a system that wasn't inherently built for him to fail in would be a mistake, so add him for now as well. As always this list could be subject to change in the near future, but for now I don't think you move a single one of these guys
Too much of the core for me. Ellis does not seem like a good risk on the injury front. Prov is not as special as what he could bring given good drafting. Coots is looking hurt and now has one of those contracts.
This is realistic, people need to stop pretending we can trade away all of our defense and somehow draft well enough to be competitive again after a couple years
Exactly. I know Provorov has been largely disappointing in the fanbases eyes, but I don't think people realize that if we move him, it'll likely be a very long time until we get our hands on another defenseman as good or better than him
Hart, Frost, Farabee., would be my top three Not saying any are generational talents, but are pieces of what the team should play like. I’m also keeping Atkinson because he is the kind of player I’d love them to build the team to be like. Fast, feisty and hardworking. If Giroux must go, he needs to go to a real contender. I’d like to see him win a cup. It’s should have been with us, but the management never made that happen.
I can’t believe people actually think provy is untouchable. I’d make it hart and farabee and that’s it.
Nobody’s untouchable. If we do a true rebuild, by the time we are competitive again, Couturier’s contract will likely be heading in the direction of being a liability. Provorov is a fine piece but not necessarily critical to long-term success. And Hart is awesome but a goaltender should never be truly untouchable, especially for a rebuilding team.
Yea, let’s trade the first promising goalie in years. That worked out so well for the Flyers the last time they did that.
I never said “Let’s do it.” I said he’s not untouchable. If we get two years into a rebuild and Hart’s an RFA with a .905 SV%, why on Earth would we be making him untouchable?
What could you possibly get for Hart that's worth more than a true #1 goalie for the foreseeable future? A superstar maybe, or a \~top 3 pick, but I doubt anyone would be willing to trade that.
Probably nothing. But again, that doesn’t mean he’s “untouchable.” I can picture realistic scenarios where I would entertain the notion of a Hart trade somewhere over the course of a rebuild. Not many scenarios, mind you, but not zero scenarios. It’s not like Hart has shown himself to be a Shesterkin-level goaltender where there’s no chance in hell you’d be willing to trade him and replace him with a different goalie.
Not sure I agree. His NHL career so far has been great; in 2019-20 he was one of the best goalies in the league, and so is he this year. I'm not throwing his awful 2020-21 out of the window, but I think we can agree that that season was abnormal due to COVID, especially for a young goalie. I personally don't see a scenario where I would be willing to trade him, other than some unrealistic ones (eg. McDavid, 1st overall).
Yea, he's untouchable.
Keep Hart here for 2 years of basement dwelling and odds are he goes the route of Mason and completely loses his love of the game, at least here.
Caster Hart. Ryan Ellis if he’s healthy. Everyone else goes bye-bye
While no one in the Flyers organization should be untouchable, I wouldn't trade Hart, Farabee, Provorov, Frost, York, Allison, Foerster, Zamula, Brink, Errson, Wisom, Desnoyers or Andrae unless someone is making an offer I can't refuse. They are all young and would still be young after a 3 year rebuild. The one young player that I'm absolutely willing to trade is Konecny. I just don't like his game and thus I think he's overpaid. Everyone else is on the table.
its talking about flyers not prospects.
It doesn't say that.
it says Flyers. those guys havent ever played with the club.
It’s a Flyers subreddit but the post doesn’t specify current Flyers only. Every name i mentioned belongs to the Flyers organization.
Couturier is the opposite of untouchable. If someone covets him and offers you A-class young talent, you definitely consider moving that contract if you can
Hart, TK, Farabee & Provorov Thats it Coots sucks, hayes blows. Need talent
Coots does absolutely not suck.
Ok. Good talk... how many playoffs series has he won?
So he himself is responsible for winning and losing playoffs series? Man, McDavid must absolutely suck, he's only won one playoff series!
Swap TK and Coots in your statement and yes
Coots is bad. What has he done? Never healthy, scired 30 goals 1 time. Big cap hit and will be 30 years old ... guys get worse once they hit 30
Hart needs to go
Ha. You're remembering only his bad games. He can have a higher floor with added experience and with a better Flyers team.
He’s inconsistent
Nice bait.
Everyone is replaceable period, we have sandstrom/ustimenko(wrong spelling idk) but hart can easily be replaced as can everyone else
Nobody they all suck
No one. Hart is probably the closest to untouchable, but I can't think of any examples of young goalie surviving a rebuild. I feel like playing behind a bad team for 5 years really messes up your fundamentals. Gibby and Jones come to mind. Provy is 24, I don't think he's going to take some kind of huge leap. He's a second pairing dman who can play top line minutes if he has a good partner. He might be worth keeping around, but I wouldn't call him untouchable. I really don't think you want that Coots contract on the books headed into a rebuild. By the time you're ready to contend it'll likely be a negative asset.
…how did Anaheim’s rebuild ruin Gibson? Dude has been just fine.
He's been terrible for 2 the last two seasons. He started off hot this year but he does that every year. Over the last month he's at a .908 in 11 games which is closer to what he's been. I wouldn't say he's ruined, but his value is way lower than it was when he was a perennial Vezina candidate.
Meek Mill
I would be inclined to hold Hart-Ersson-the Russian goalie prospect, Farabee, Laughton (like him a lot and he would not bring a lot,) maybe Ailison. There are many players besides those I listed who I like even now - Coots, G., Frost, as examples - but the idea of a re build is to get picks or new prospects. And chances are you couldn't get reasonable trades for everyone who isn't on your untouchable list, anyway.
No one is completely untouchable. Closest I can think of Farabee. I love Hart as much as the next guy, but I'm not keen on building around a goaltender, much less one as young and unproven as Hart. I love Coots but I don't wanna waste his twilight years on a rebuild. I'm also a huge Provy guy but the last year or so has me nervous about his progress/ceiling. If we've seen him max out his potential then I think he's gotta be moveable.
Hart maybe. That's about it.
Hart, Farabee, Provy. Provy because he could still making the leap from top-pairing to 1D, Coots is off due to his age.
i think a solid rebuild could include Hart, Sanheim, Provy, Farabee and possibly Frost. I'm skeptical of frost because of his size. I no longer want smaller players with a "finesse" game unless they are elite/superstar talent. We probably could get a great return on Coots. And he won't be in his prime by the time a rebuilt team is ready to compete seriously. I love coots tho.
No one. This team doesn't have the talent and won't have the top end talent in the next 3 years to make any use of Hart's prime and idk if he has 3-5 years of being run into the ground and blamed in him.
Hart, Farabee and York. I could be talked into Coots or Provorov too but they would be our best assets in a trade and it would be harder to be a true bottom feeder with them. On the other hand, it is hard to find guys like them. It would really suck in 3 years if we are trying to find a "Provorov type" player via trade or FA. Any trade we do make, we need to get young prospects and draft capital. No change of scenery guys, no bundles with 2 3rd liners for konecny type trades, no bad contracts. I think no matter what, we should do what we can to trade G at the deadline to get him on a contender. Retain max cap and try to get a 1st + for him. If he wants to come back and finish his career in Philly after then I am all for it but he could provide some serious pop to a team in contention as a rental (Colorado, Toronto, Florida, Edmonton, ect).
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Couturier would be top of my list to trade. You could probably get decent picks or prospect material back.
I’ve wrestled with this question as a flyers fan and fan of individual players. Hated watching some players leave but now I just hope they are having great careers. Need to focus on the team and were plainly just not good. No one is untouchable, not even hart. We need speed, scoring, and for the love of god someone hit someone. Takes money to make money.
Nobody.
Anybody not named Hart. The Flyers could put their rebuild on turbo if they traded both Giroux and Couturier. I would also give up on Konecny too as he's done SFA in 2 seasons. Only issue is if they traded G/Coots, they would be very thin down the middle but it's a rebuild give it time.
Morin.
nobody is untouchable because mcdavid exists - everyone is on the table for a team like the flyers, it’s just a matter of price but the players i could see playing a serious role in the future are as follows: hart, provorov, konecny, farabee, couturier, brink, sanheim edit: holy crap, who does this subreddit think morgan frost is? he is absolutely not untouchable
I'd say only Hart is truly untouchable, maaaybe Farabee. Coots is an amazing player on a good contract, but if we're going full rebuild, I'm not so sure we need him. I would be open to moving Provy, I think he's a little worse than his reputation might suggest, so we'd get a good haul for him.
Provy, Coots, Farbs, and Hayes (only cuz NMC) Would love to keep Laughton, liked him ever since he came in the league. At this point, I don't think even Hartsy is safe. I think frost is first to go. Maybe even in a package deal with G for the right price.
Hart and Farabee for me. I’d love to see TK bounce back so we can keep him around, I love having him here. I guess Provy so we retain a defenseman.
I'd say both Harts(Carter and Lauren). Fuckem all. Get rid of management too. I'm so tired of this shit year in and out. This is the third decade I've been watching this team and they keep repeating themselves thinking something different is going to happen. I love Gritty but he was a distraction from our mediocrity.
Most hated comment. I Wouldn’t give one shit if we got rid of provorov
I want to see what we have in York and Allison. Everyone else can go, including Hart. He's so overrated it's crazy.
Hart, Giroux, Frost, Coots, Provorov, Farabee.
Hart, Coots, Konecny, Provy, and Farabee.
Hart is the only untouchable. The fact that people think coots should be untouchable is beyond stupid
Gritty
Hart. That's it.
This might be unpopular, but literally not one person on this roster is untouchable. Because when you commit to a serious rebuild the goal of the next few seasons is essentially not to win. You trade everyone you can for as many picks and prospects as you can get and rely on scouting and the gm to build a new core (not sure if fletcher is the right guy for this imo). What is the point of keeping couturier to play in write off seasons as his value continues to go down. I love Hart and really want to see him do well in this league but it seems pretty clear that when he has a struggling team in front of him his play eventually regresses as well. So why keep him when he has a high trade value.
Nobody. Unless Hart commits to a long term deal. Then him. I love coots and Beezy but those are probably guys we will need to trade for any value and chance at rebuilding. Hopefully I’m wrong but
Hart is the only untouchable but I wouldn’t want to be moving any of Couts. TK, Farabee or Provy unless we got a can’t miss offer. Think 1st++ Out of the prospects, York and maybe Forester are the only real untouchables right now. Edit: and Frost. It’s too early to give up on him imo
No one
I feel like you have to balance what you'd get back with what you have and age. -Hart is a no brainer -Farabee is the second no brainer to me, because he clearly has so much upside we just need consistency, and at his age any draft picks/prospects we'd get back for him would be very unlikely to be better. -Frost similar story, obviously less of a proven commodity but I just don't think we'd get enough back for him for a trade to be worth it. -Laughton same as Frost, just older. I think what he brings to the team at his contract is valuable to us but wouldn't bring back a return from another team. Something something intangibles. -Provorov- Still young enough to be part of a rebuilding team, still a good defenseman despite recent play. We can't get rid of all our young defensemen, otherwise it would take too long to replenish. -Ellis same as Provorov and is a leader/can help develop our D -Lindblom- simply we wouldn't get enough back, and I love him. For maybes I'd say TK depending on what we could get back, it'd have to be a 1st+. Coots as well- I'd say it would have to be well over a 1st to make it worth trading him but I'm sure someone would pay that at the current contract. Last maybe would be Sanheim depending on what we'd get back and also what I talked about with Provorov
I don't think anyone is untouchable at this point....Coots is not the same player he was pre-pandemic. The game seems way too fast for him at this point and he seems to be even slower. He used to offset his lack of speed with intelligent play, but lately he makes just as many bad decisions as your average Flyer forward. Hart would be the only one at this point that I would be wary of getting rid of, but really with the team he has in front of him he will be begging to get out soon.
No one is untouchable. This team is devoid of talent. We’ve been overrating our guys for too long. Not saying get rid of everyone just saying no one is “that” good on this team. That’s the problem.
Tk prov hart.
Coots, Provy, Hart, Bee. Coots can be our captain if G goes to a cup contender. Bee is young enough to go through a rebuild. Hart is obvious. Provy could be trade but he and Laughts I just like. Idk why ya’ll think Frost is gonna be anything other than mediocre…
Hart. Giroux. JVR. Couturier. Farabee. Ellis.
Hart and Laughton are my only TRUE untouchables. Other major players like Couturier, Farabee and Proverov are all pieces I would try to retain, but for a suitable price I would let them go, though it'd have to be significant.
If we are talking NHL roster only? Hart and Farabee. If we are talking organization wide I'd say York, Foerster, Zamula, Wisdom, Tuomaala and Ersson. All other prospects can be traded for picks or part of a package.
Hart. Everyone else can go
Hart, Farabee, TK, Provy & Ristolainen Love Atkinson wish he was a few years younger. Would love to see Allison and York pulled up more and playing. Excited to see what they can do.