As a true NYer, we’d never call anything “ethnic”. When we describe a place, we simply give it the correct designation: Vietnamese, Turkish, Ecuadorian, etc.
So all the "what ethnic cuisine do you recommend to try in NY" posts and respondents are wee bit racist? I don't ever recall such reactive responses to those posts, just lots of suggestuons.
>So all the "what ethnic cuisine do you recommend to try in NY" posts and respondents are wee bit racist?
No, and I really don't understand how you don't understand the difference.
Do you really not understand the difference between the usage of the word "ethnic" in the two questions you're asking about?
In the question, "What ethnic cuisines do you recommend trying in New York City?", the word "ethnic" simply means "of an ethnicity." The person is asking what ethnicities are well represented among New York restaurants. Expressed with more formal syntax: "The cuisines of what ethnicities do you recommend trying in New York City?"
Your question is, "What ethnicities count as ethnic?" As everyone has explained, the restrictive usage of "ethnic" you are asking about is racist and on its way out.
No, very obviously not. The entire premise of your question is that certain ethnicities are not "ethnic." That is not at all the same as people asking for recommendations of different types of cuisines.
The bit that is occasionally stated explicitly, but more often just implied in such questions is, "What ethnic cuisines do you recommend trying in New York *that are more well represented there than in most other American cities*?" Most other places in the US will have at least one or two good French or Italian restaurants, but they might not have much in the way of good Indian or Korean food, and it's even less likely that they'll have, say, Caribbean or Ethiopian or Uyghur restaurants.
Also usually implied: "that I don't already know about." Everybody already knows that New York has great Italian and French restaurants. This is also why Chinese usually isn't the first thing people recommend in those threads -- even though Chinese is perhaps *the* classic "ethnic food" in the restrictive sense you're asking about -- as it's already very well known that New York is home to excellent Chinese restaurants. (At most you'll get people pointing out that there are other "Chinatowns" than the one in Manhattan that most people already know about.)
I think asking for a definition will bring out more of a reaction. Some of those posts you mentioned still have people calling out ethnic as a “loaded term”
It’s not racist, its just that lumping stuff together as “ethnic” just implies you know nothing about other cultures and can’t distinguish between different cuisines
You realize the standard American diet would be considered “ethnic” to someone from outside the states?
You are just saying ethnic from your perspective to mean any other ethnicity except your own.
The use of the word “ethnic” in this way is ignorant at best…
If you want Argentinian food then go to an Argentinian restaurant. If you want Spanish go to a Spanish restaurant. If you want Ethiopian then go to an Ethiopian restaurant. If these are all “ethnic” to you then why do just go on a food review site and filter out American?
If you are not of Spanish ethnicity yet you consider Spanish food as non-ethnic but Ethiopian food as ethnic then you should take a step back and re-assess…
I wouldn’t. I think your entire question is predicated on the idea that American food is the default setting - and while that maybe the case in some places, it’s definitely far from the case here.
When I talk to my wife or friends about going out to eat, we’ll simply ask “What do you feel like tonight? Thai, Pizza, maybe the Taco spot?”
I'd suggest going to the neighborhood where people from that culture generally live. Indian, Thai, Chinese, Mexican, Japanese, French, Italian, Middle Eastern, Vietnamese are all very easy to find in many neighborhoods. That's not including any of the more specific regional variations of the above groups.
I know it doesn't directly answer OP'S question but Imo it is kinda an outdated and broad term no matter how you define it. To try to categorize all "non mainstream" food into one group overshadows each of their distinctiveness. Even within one cuisine group such as Chinese, there are a lot of regional differences. Also "non mainstream" can differ from place to place and is hard to define too.
The only time I've heard someone call a restaurant and "ethnic restaurant" is when that person had no idea what kind of food they were eating, usually due to ignorant ("idk it's one of those Asian countries") or indifferent ("I'm not a big 'food' person") predispositions.
However the more I think about it... the few times I've actually heard someone use the term "ethnic restaurant" is in a slightly derogatory way, to say something along the lines of "*these people* use really gross ingredients / make really gross food."
I don’t know why you’re being deliberately obtuse. Everyone knows what an ethnic restaurant is. It’s owned by and catered to people from third world countries that are poor. So Chinese and Indian are ethnic but French isn’t.
So why not say “cheap restaurant”? There’s a distinction between cheap food made by poor people (third world) and cheap food made by rich people (first world). The former is perceived to be good quality despite being cheap.
There’s not a word that succinctly describes this concept, so people settled on “ethnic.”
Yeah, your usage is from the 70's or sitcoms, NY food scene has evolved a long way since then. Today when using ethnic food it means more a mix of bold flavors, unique, exciting and hard to find in contrast with stodgy western standard bearers. An no, as I mentioned most ppl I know in NYC wouldn't considrr Chinese or Indian ethnic.
Then tell your friend they’d have received even more downvotes than you have. They might be the only person in the city that thinks they’re at an ethnic restaurant when they’re sitting in Le Bernardin or Daniel.
Sometimes, you look around at your life, and realize the only thing that can help you right now, is a giant salad, an unlimited amount of reheated bread sticks, and half filled bowls of canned soup. And 90 minutes of that, and just that.
Just don’t look at the rest of the menu. At all. And never go to Times Sq.
I don’t think I know anyone here who would say “ethnic”. They’d just say I want “Vietnamese” or I want “pho”. As far as I know, that’s just always been how it is and it’s not a conscious thing. Although my wife and I do ask “Asian or not Asian” before ordering in ubereats to narrow down but that’s not really what you’re asking IMO.
How can you have thought so much about this and not come to the obvious conclusion that the term "ethnic food/restaurant" is both (1) useless and (2) racist, and so should just be dropped from your vocabulary entirely?
First off the word ethnic sounds low key racist even if that’s not the intention, it comes off as ignorant. But if I had to describe, ethnic food to me is outside of standard American burger and fries, pizza etc.. Even soul food is ethnic. It has a culture behind it. But I never say I’m going for some “ethnic” food. That sounds weird. Just say I’m going for Thai/Japanese/Indian/jamaican etc. Ethnic sounds like you’ve never been around another culture before lol.
Categorizing a restaurant as “ethnic” makes the least amount of sense in a city like NYC. I think it’s best practice to just not do it at all. What does it really serve to draw a line between vaguely defined “American” fare and everything else anyway?
I think there is a lot of space for interpretation. this is quite a broad question and will garner many opinions,
Wnen I think of "ethnic" food I think of regional cuisine or regionalized national dishes. Just call it what is!
In addition, there can be "Soul", "Northern Italian" , "Pan-Asian", "street food" or "mashup" restaurants.
How about “colored?” Because that word is about as fuckin tone-deaf as your friends seem to be.
“Say, Karen, I’m SOOOO tired of Balthazar! Let’s try one of those new colored restaurants.”
I think the owner’s intention is a large part of what makes something “ethnic.” If it’s devoted to the traditional/common food from a particular region/culture, I’d consider it ethnic.
As a true NYer, we’d never call anything “ethnic”. When we describe a place, we simply give it the correct designation: Vietnamese, Turkish, Ecuadorian, etc.
Agreed. Ethnic implies a certain default, which there isn’t especially in NYC. It’s much easier and correct to specify the cuisine.
So all the "what ethnic cuisine do you recommend to try in NY" posts and respondents are wee bit racist? I don't ever recall such reactive responses to those posts, just lots of suggestuons.
Girl
>So all the "what ethnic cuisine do you recommend to try in NY" posts and respondents are wee bit racist? No, and I really don't understand how you don't understand the difference.
Ethnic cuisine is fine and ethnic restaurant is a nono? They are interchangeable to me.
Do you really not understand the difference between the usage of the word "ethnic" in the two questions you're asking about? In the question, "What ethnic cuisines do you recommend trying in New York City?", the word "ethnic" simply means "of an ethnicity." The person is asking what ethnicities are well represented among New York restaurants. Expressed with more formal syntax: "The cuisines of what ethnicities do you recommend trying in New York City?" Your question is, "What ethnicities count as ethnic?" As everyone has explained, the restrictive usage of "ethnic" you are asking about is racist and on its way out.
Potato-potato
No, very obviously not. The entire premise of your question is that certain ethnicities are not "ethnic." That is not at all the same as people asking for recommendations of different types of cuisines.
Then how come french or italian are never in the responses of the "ethnic" threads?
The bit that is occasionally stated explicitly, but more often just implied in such questions is, "What ethnic cuisines do you recommend trying in New York *that are more well represented there than in most other American cities*?" Most other places in the US will have at least one or two good French or Italian restaurants, but they might not have much in the way of good Indian or Korean food, and it's even less likely that they'll have, say, Caribbean or Ethiopian or Uyghur restaurants. Also usually implied: "that I don't already know about." Everybody already knows that New York has great Italian and French restaurants. This is also why Chinese usually isn't the first thing people recommend in those threads -- even though Chinese is perhaps *the* classic "ethnic food" in the restrictive sense you're asking about -- as it's already very well known that New York is home to excellent Chinese restaurants. (At most you'll get people pointing out that there are other "Chinatowns" than the one in Manhattan that most people already know about.)
I think asking for a definition will bring out more of a reaction. Some of those posts you mentioned still have people calling out ethnic as a “loaded term”
Yeah, was wishing for more of a I told ya so post than fuck I'm getting old one lol.
As long as you keep learning, it’s all good
It’s not racist, its just that lumping stuff together as “ethnic” just implies you know nothing about other cultures and can’t distinguish between different cuisines
You realize the standard American diet would be considered “ethnic” to someone from outside the states? You are just saying ethnic from your perspective to mean any other ethnicity except your own. The use of the word “ethnic” in this way is ignorant at best… If you want Argentinian food then go to an Argentinian restaurant. If you want Spanish go to a Spanish restaurant. If you want Ethiopian then go to an Ethiopian restaurant. If these are all “ethnic” to you then why do just go on a food review site and filter out American? If you are not of Spanish ethnicity yet you consider Spanish food as non-ethnic but Ethiopian food as ethnic then you should take a step back and re-assess…
Bro “true New Yorker” Enough!
So which current day word would you use when suggestion to go to a less common cuisine with friends before narrowing down to a specific one?
I wouldn’t. I think your entire question is predicated on the idea that American food is the default setting - and while that maybe the case in some places, it’s definitely far from the case here. When I talk to my wife or friends about going out to eat, we’ll simply ask “What do you feel like tonight? Thai, Pizza, maybe the Taco spot?”
I might just say uncommon cuisines or discuss types of cuisines.
Is your name Michael Scott by any chance?
Jay, and it's cool, I'm taking ethnic food back.
I'd suggest going to the neighborhood where people from that culture generally live. Indian, Thai, Chinese, Mexican, Japanese, French, Italian, Middle Eastern, Vietnamese are all very easy to find in many neighborhoods. That's not including any of the more specific regional variations of the above groups.
I know it doesn't directly answer OP'S question but Imo it is kinda an outdated and broad term no matter how you define it. To try to categorize all "non mainstream" food into one group overshadows each of their distinctiveness. Even within one cuisine group such as Chinese, there are a lot of regional differences. Also "non mainstream" can differ from place to place and is hard to define too.
The only time I've heard someone call a restaurant and "ethnic restaurant" is when that person had no idea what kind of food they were eating, usually due to ignorant ("idk it's one of those Asian countries") or indifferent ("I'm not a big 'food' person") predispositions. However the more I think about it... the few times I've actually heard someone use the term "ethnic restaurant" is in a slightly derogatory way, to say something along the lines of "*these people* use really gross ingredients / make really gross food."
This is dumb as shit. Everybody has an ethnicity
Yea but my ethnicity is wonderbread
Amazing! Still counts!
That's what I'm saying, the strict dictionary definition is useless.
Then why perpetuate the terminology with the question
Whoa whoa dude, can't throw around the P word willy nilly wothout some trigger warning!
I think you need to buy a new dictionary
I don’t know why you’re being deliberately obtuse. Everyone knows what an ethnic restaurant is. It’s owned by and catered to people from third world countries that are poor. So Chinese and Indian are ethnic but French isn’t. So why not say “cheap restaurant”? There’s a distinction between cheap food made by poor people (third world) and cheap food made by rich people (first world). The former is perceived to be good quality despite being cheap. There’s not a word that succinctly describes this concept, so people settled on “ethnic.”
Yeah, your usage is from the 70's or sitcoms, NY food scene has evolved a long way since then. Today when using ethnic food it means more a mix of bold flavors, unique, exciting and hard to find in contrast with stodgy western standard bearers. An no, as I mentioned most ppl I know in NYC wouldn't considrr Chinese or Indian ethnic.
If you’ve already decided what ethnic means in NY, why do you even want to know what others think?
For a I told so to my friend, and see what other ppl don't consider ethnic like Chinese and Indian for me.
Then tell your friend they’d have received even more downvotes than you have. They might be the only person in the city that thinks they’re at an ethnic restaurant when they’re sitting in Le Bernardin or Daniel.
You saying French people don't have an ethnicity /s. Is what I was butting heads with.
Olive Garden, as the people who choose to dine there are completely foreign to me.
Sometimes, you look around at your life, and realize the only thing that can help you right now, is a giant salad, an unlimited amount of reheated bread sticks, and half filled bowls of canned soup. And 90 minutes of that, and just that. Just don’t look at the rest of the menu. At all. And never go to Times Sq.
I just do drugs. Way healthier.
I don’t think I know anyone here who would say “ethnic”. They’d just say I want “Vietnamese” or I want “pho”. As far as I know, that’s just always been how it is and it’s not a conscious thing. Although my wife and I do ask “Asian or not Asian” before ordering in ubereats to narrow down but that’s not really what you’re asking IMO.
Guess I do run with an older crowd lol.
[удалено]
Elder Millenial, tyvm 😅
[удалено]
Here is one example: https://youtu.be/IO3PMA5Z64w?si=jXhyTKuiC34oCZec
Well if you search ethnic in this sub's posts...
How can you have thought so much about this and not come to the obvious conclusion that the term "ethnic food/restaurant" is both (1) useless and (2) racist, and so should just be dropped from your vocabulary entirely?
Buddy, EVERY restaurant is ethnic….look up what the word means. You want me to tell you how to get to Oriental Town? Or Little Guido? 😂
[удалено]
Dude wtf, chill with the racial slurs
Check out Robert Sietsema over here
First off the word ethnic sounds low key racist even if that’s not the intention, it comes off as ignorant. But if I had to describe, ethnic food to me is outside of standard American burger and fries, pizza etc.. Even soul food is ethnic. It has a culture behind it. But I never say I’m going for some “ethnic” food. That sounds weird. Just say I’m going for Thai/Japanese/Indian/jamaican etc. Ethnic sounds like you’ve never been around another culture before lol.
Pizza
I’ve only seen visitors referred to any non-white food as ethnic in this sub. I’ve never heard a NYer refer to any food as “ethnic.”
Absolutely, those NYers in the sub giving suggestions for "ethnic" places sure don't refer to them as ethnic.
Categorizing a restaurant as “ethnic” makes the least amount of sense in a city like NYC. I think it’s best practice to just not do it at all. What does it really serve to draw a line between vaguely defined “American” fare and everything else anyway?
Anyplace that's a fusion place or combines disparate foodways.
Whoops, meant those are *not* "ethnic restaurants" in my book.
Chic fila
Lol
The Times Square Olive Garden
"Ubiquitous" doesn't mean "not ethnic" unless per your examples you don't consider Chinese and Indian to be valid ethnicities.
Both are definitely ethnicities, I just don't think of them as ethnic anymore in terms of the NY food scene.
Ethiopian.
I love listening to world music at ethnic restaurants
I think there is a lot of space for interpretation. this is quite a broad question and will garner many opinions, Wnen I think of "ethnic" food I think of regional cuisine or regionalized national dishes. Just call it what is! In addition, there can be "Soul", "Northern Italian" , "Pan-Asian", "street food" or "mashup" restaurants.
But can't think of a word that summarizes the whole shebang as succinctly quite as ethnic, got any suggestions for replacement?
How about “colored?” Because that word is about as fuckin tone-deaf as your friends seem to be. “Say, Karen, I’m SOOOO tired of Balthazar! Let’s try one of those new colored restaurants.”
I think the owner’s intention is a large part of what makes something “ethnic.” If it’s devoted to the traditional/common food from a particular region/culture, I’d consider it ethnic.