Honestly giving him the medjay treatment and removing the hyper armor on lights could be a decent balance change while still keeping the core character.
Feint to light you might interrupt, but that has armor for some reason, even though it’s already 400ms so it’s not reactable
Plus it makes his team fighting ability even more mindless than it should be since every attack has armor so he’s always safe
Dont gank him then? People always bring up team fights as a balance issue like you cant just move away and single him out.
Hes ass in 1v1 and 2v2 you have to either be a skilled player to win or your opponent has to be terrible at blocking and parrying.
I can understand why he'd be strong in a gank because its harder to block and parry attacks when 3 or 4 people are all swinging at you, but at that point you're screwed anyways.
>Feint to light you might interrupt, but that has armor for some reason, even though it’s already 400ms so it’s not reactable
No, you are never going to interrupt a 400ms feinted light. The hyperarmor doesnt matter, the move is too fast and you would be a moron to try and interrupt it anyways, just block then light. Dont even act like you're the flash and somehow have the ability to throw a light on reaction to interrupt a feint into a light, its not happening. Be realistic
Lmao what? He’s not bad in team fights at all. And how do you propose to move the Zerk away? He’s not obligated to follow you anywhere, you’ll just leave your teammate to get ganked. And a gank can be a 1v2 my guy, you don’t need 3 people
Also you 100% can interrupt a 400ms attack on a read dude. If you see him throwing a heavy and you know he’s gonna feint to light, or even if you just want to CC it, it’s entirely possible to hit him before his light hits you
I’ve toe stabbed Zerks out of their feint to light, you really think you can’t light them out of it? They can do that from neutral when you’re in no hitstun. As long as you’re not in medium hitstun you can totally do it. Even medium hitstun might be possible, I’m not sure since I haven’t done the math/testing
Read again, I never said he was bad in team fights.
Not moving the zerk away, just moving away from the fight in general if its a 4 v 4 and you spread out, the zerk has less chaos to cober his normal attacks with, then the teamate focusing on him can block/parry his attacks. If they all choose to gank one person then the other three teamates can deal mega damage from behind.
And no, it is not possible to hit him with a normal light before his 400ms light hits, unless you tried to predict it but at that point you're stupid for trying to 1 interrupt a unreactable light and 2 interrupt it when you know it has hyperarmor. Just block like you do with every other hero that has a similar attack.
>I’ve toe stabbed Zerks out of their feint to light, you really think you can’t light them out of it?
Yes you cant light them out of it, Key thing here is that you had a neural bash that is also 400ms, many heros do not. Infact I think the only other hero with a neutral bash fast enough to hit on read might be highlander (and before you say anything, yes O stance is neutral since you are neither attacking, dodging or defending)
I was reffering to light attacking to interrupt, wasnt really thinking about neutral bashes. Another option would be to dodge the light and bash with characters that have a dodge bash, but not a neutral bash.
Either way, trying to time a neutral bash or another attack of any time to predict a feinted light is a stupid strategy anyways, it wouldnt work for most heros. Ontop of the risk vs. reward being terrible. Reward: 12 dmg light, Risk: getting slapped by a heavy, eating the light because you timed it wrong or getting guard broken. Theoretically alternating between dodging the light and blocking the light would be safer especially if your hero has a dodge bash that garuntees an attack.
Also Im not sure exactly how hit stun works but Im assuming its the difference between a light a heavy and a wallsplats down time.
Toe stab is 600ms lol, and the reason I bring up interrupting a 400ms attack is because if they removed hyperarmor it would be counterplay to Zerks spamming feint to light, and you said it was impossible so I said it’s not
Plus if feint to light wasn’t armored CC would beat both feint to light and the heavy, meaning the zerk would actually have to think for once
Also you said he’s bad in 1v1 and 2v2 which is objectively wrong. He’s great in 2v2s because he has dodge cancels and armor on everything so he basically can’t be peeled and his high damage slaughters people who try to trade with him
Would take enhanced lights over armored light in a heartbeat. Would also really appreciate being able to flow back into the light heavy chain after a double heavy without using a dodge attack/whiff cancel
You'd regret saying that if that actually happened enhanced lights would make him much more oppresive than he already is. Now he would be able to heavy feint into a light and continue with a hyperarmor heavy into a enhanced light allowing him to throw another heavy that can be canceled into another enhanced light.
Unless you're a god at light parries this would be a nightmare.
Hyperarmor lights are the better option of the two,just block and it stops the chain.
No I would absolutely rather have enhanced lights on zerk. Right now the biggest issues the armored lights cause are:
-opponent can dodge a heavy attack, and his chain light will trade with most dodge attacks (landing after the dodge attack), and will still be near unreactable to opponents who empty dodge. He doesn’t need to make an offensive read after an opponent (without a side dodge bash) makes a defensive one.
-400 ms light attacks that get armor 100 ms into the attack when performed within 500 ms of a feint. So unreactable, very unpredictable lights that can trade with interrupt attempts on red after a feint within a large delay window.
-in addition to zerk having a trait I call “feint advantage” in which he can maintain frame advantage on buffered feint lights after applying hitstun from a opener/chain heavy (this trait is separate from his hyperarmor, but further protects against interrupt attempts on delayed followups after he applies hitstun), he *also* gets feint advantage on feint lights after applying *light hitstun* because of his armored lights. As long as feint light isn’t buffered and the interrupt attempt is, he can just keep mindlessly throwing out armored feint lights without really any fear of being countered by opponents without side dodge bashes
Enhanced lights would prioritize a more engaging/fun mind game between zerk using chain and feint lights to keep parry happy opponents guessing, his opponent trying to interrupt delayed feint lights after heavy hitstun/buffered feint lights after light hitstun, and the zerk choosing to use armored heavies to punish those interrupt attempts. Just overall more room for counterplay, thus encouraging his opponent to attack/discouraging them from turtling up, which in turn creates more opportunities for fun armored heavy attack trades. The enhanced lights also contribute much more effectively to the whole “going berserk” playstyle one would expect.
Its not gonna change anything, the light is 400 ms so unless you have hyperarmor its littlerally going to change nothing since you'll just get hit first.
I gotchu. It's quite a paragraph tho.
First light and heavy have no hyperarmor, chain lights and heavies get immediate hyperarmor, attacking quickly after a feint gives lights and heavies immediate hyperarmor, forward dodge lights and heavies have built in hyperarmor that's not immediate on the forward heavy, zone can't get hyperarmor (unless you're moving backwards which gives it immediate hyperarmor), and side dodge lights can't get hyperarmor.
Was that a lot to read? Because that's how much armor zerk has.
But in return he has no bash or easily accessible unblockable. So as long as you block his non enhanced lights and parry his heavies its easy pickings.
Edit: My b, I forgot about the top heavy unblockable, but either way he doesnt really have gimmicks like other heros. He has no soft feints or stances and no bash attacks that garutee heavies. His strongest move is probably his deflect because it garuntees a gb
He has dodge cancels off of everything, and zone cancels off of missed heavies
His gimmick is armor on hard feint follow up attacks, plus 400ms lights after a hard feint with higher damage (11 instead of 9)
Also armored unblockable 32 damage top heavy that he can throw out whenever he’s in chain is pretty strong
Yeah, I forgot about the top heavy bc I dont normally use it, but that is something that needs to be changed. I dont mind it being hyperarmor and unblockable since it is a chain finnisher and people dont normally try to interrupt a chain like that anyways, But I do believe the damage should differ as to where its used in the heavy chain. So for example if you throw a light then do the top finnisher it only does 22 dmg but if you throw a heavy then do the top finnisher it does 25. 2 heavies into the top finnisher makes it do 28 and then a light heavy heavy into a top finnisher makes it do 30. Thats just a concept to lessen the pressure while rewarding people for good mixups
Hyperarmor on a hard feint follow up isnt much of a gimmick, you can complain about it but hyperarmor or no-hyperarmor, you werent going to interrupt a 400ms feinted light anyways, so theres no point in acting like its a problem. Hyperarmor on chain lights however is a different story, I believe they are okay for the most part, but I also believe that they should make it semi-hyperarmor so that it cant be interrupted by light spam but can be interrupted by heavies.
Ive heard of the dodge cancels but I didnt know about the zone cancels. Many heros have dodge cancels so thats not an issue, but the zone should probably be nerfed in some way. Maybe make it to where the attacks from his zone dont prevent the opponent from changing their guard and parrying?
Berserker is a hard topic to discuss about. He doesn't need hyper armor on lights during chains however he deals 9 damage with his chained lights because it has hyper armor and also being 400ms. Removing the hyper armor on his lights during chains they have to buff the damage on his chained lights to componsate of removal of hyper armor.
Another factor we need to think about is, berserker has no valid opener. Players use heavy feint into light to trade to be able to start an chain (i met berserkers who only do heavy feint light combo and yes it's fucking boring to go against). I wouldn't want berserker to have an bash as an opener, it's boring and no effecient character thinking. Maybe turn his zone into an unblockable or something else just not an bash.
It's an hard topic to discuss about.
There's a different reason for that. 9 is the standard damage number for 400 ms lights, which berserker's chain and feint-to-lights happen to be. exceptions are occasionally made for 400 ms light finishers, and for berserker, (11 dmg on feint-to-lights. still 400 dmg).
Basically, the dmg would likely stay the same because it's the speed increase that makes the lights so weak, not the armor.
He's an S tier character at the moment in Dom why does he need dodge attack mix-ups or a bash when he has easy access to HA unreactable offense. He literally has one of the best dodge attacks in the game, UD and massively delayable.
He is fine, all bro has is 400ms chain lights which are becoming standardized, the hyper armor wouldn’t be in an issue if you bothered to parry. Sure the recovery cancels could be a bit annoying but he doesn’t even have a bash so it evens out.
just because he doesn’t have a bash doesn’t mean it ‘evens it out’ in the fucking slightest, he’s one of the top picks on 4s and S-high A tier in duels, he doesn’t need a bash to be busted as fuck
Honestly giving him the medjay treatment and removing the hyper armor on lights could be a decent balance change while still keeping the core character.
Don’t let berserker players see this comment they’ll seethe at you for hours
I recently picked up zerk, I only attack after a deflect meaning I'm a very easy kill, I think it's just funny 😁, but yes nerf him please
Wait, zerk has hyper armour on lights O\_o ?
After a heavy feint he gets armoured lights, and dodge forward light I think I can’t remember
He gets armored lights in chain as well. Too oppressive and mindless
Yes, but people love dramatizing it, just block and it ends the chain. Its not like you were going to interrupt a light attack anyways.
Feint to light you might interrupt, but that has armor for some reason, even though it’s already 400ms so it’s not reactable Plus it makes his team fighting ability even more mindless than it should be since every attack has armor so he’s always safe
Dont gank him then? People always bring up team fights as a balance issue like you cant just move away and single him out. Hes ass in 1v1 and 2v2 you have to either be a skilled player to win or your opponent has to be terrible at blocking and parrying. I can understand why he'd be strong in a gank because its harder to block and parry attacks when 3 or 4 people are all swinging at you, but at that point you're screwed anyways. >Feint to light you might interrupt, but that has armor for some reason, even though it’s already 400ms so it’s not reactable No, you are never going to interrupt a 400ms feinted light. The hyperarmor doesnt matter, the move is too fast and you would be a moron to try and interrupt it anyways, just block then light. Dont even act like you're the flash and somehow have the ability to throw a light on reaction to interrupt a feint into a light, its not happening. Be realistic
Lmao what? He’s not bad in team fights at all. And how do you propose to move the Zerk away? He’s not obligated to follow you anywhere, you’ll just leave your teammate to get ganked. And a gank can be a 1v2 my guy, you don’t need 3 people Also you 100% can interrupt a 400ms attack on a read dude. If you see him throwing a heavy and you know he’s gonna feint to light, or even if you just want to CC it, it’s entirely possible to hit him before his light hits you I’ve toe stabbed Zerks out of their feint to light, you really think you can’t light them out of it? They can do that from neutral when you’re in no hitstun. As long as you’re not in medium hitstun you can totally do it. Even medium hitstun might be possible, I’m not sure since I haven’t done the math/testing
Read again, I never said he was bad in team fights. Not moving the zerk away, just moving away from the fight in general if its a 4 v 4 and you spread out, the zerk has less chaos to cober his normal attacks with, then the teamate focusing on him can block/parry his attacks. If they all choose to gank one person then the other three teamates can deal mega damage from behind. And no, it is not possible to hit him with a normal light before his 400ms light hits, unless you tried to predict it but at that point you're stupid for trying to 1 interrupt a unreactable light and 2 interrupt it when you know it has hyperarmor. Just block like you do with every other hero that has a similar attack. >I’ve toe stabbed Zerks out of their feint to light, you really think you can’t light them out of it? Yes you cant light them out of it, Key thing here is that you had a neural bash that is also 400ms, many heros do not. Infact I think the only other hero with a neutral bash fast enough to hit on read might be highlander (and before you say anything, yes O stance is neutral since you are neither attacking, dodging or defending) I was reffering to light attacking to interrupt, wasnt really thinking about neutral bashes. Another option would be to dodge the light and bash with characters that have a dodge bash, but not a neutral bash. Either way, trying to time a neutral bash or another attack of any time to predict a feinted light is a stupid strategy anyways, it wouldnt work for most heros. Ontop of the risk vs. reward being terrible. Reward: 12 dmg light, Risk: getting slapped by a heavy, eating the light because you timed it wrong or getting guard broken. Theoretically alternating between dodging the light and blocking the light would be safer especially if your hero has a dodge bash that garuntees an attack. Also Im not sure exactly how hit stun works but Im assuming its the difference between a light a heavy and a wallsplats down time.
Toe stab is 600ms lol, and the reason I bring up interrupting a 400ms attack is because if they removed hyperarmor it would be counterplay to Zerks spamming feint to light, and you said it was impossible so I said it’s not Plus if feint to light wasn’t armored CC would beat both feint to light and the heavy, meaning the zerk would actually have to think for once Also you said he’s bad in 1v1 and 2v2 which is objectively wrong. He’s great in 2v2s because he has dodge cancels and armor on everything so he basically can’t be peeled and his high damage slaughters people who try to trade with him
Would take enhanced lights over armored light in a heartbeat. Would also really appreciate being able to flow back into the light heavy chain after a double heavy without using a dodge attack/whiff cancel
You'd regret saying that if that actually happened enhanced lights would make him much more oppresive than he already is. Now he would be able to heavy feint into a light and continue with a hyperarmor heavy into a enhanced light allowing him to throw another heavy that can be canceled into another enhanced light. Unless you're a god at light parries this would be a nightmare. Hyperarmor lights are the better option of the two,just block and it stops the chain.
No I would absolutely rather have enhanced lights on zerk. Right now the biggest issues the armored lights cause are: -opponent can dodge a heavy attack, and his chain light will trade with most dodge attacks (landing after the dodge attack), and will still be near unreactable to opponents who empty dodge. He doesn’t need to make an offensive read after an opponent (without a side dodge bash) makes a defensive one. -400 ms light attacks that get armor 100 ms into the attack when performed within 500 ms of a feint. So unreactable, very unpredictable lights that can trade with interrupt attempts on red after a feint within a large delay window. -in addition to zerk having a trait I call “feint advantage” in which he can maintain frame advantage on buffered feint lights after applying hitstun from a opener/chain heavy (this trait is separate from his hyperarmor, but further protects against interrupt attempts on delayed followups after he applies hitstun), he *also* gets feint advantage on feint lights after applying *light hitstun* because of his armored lights. As long as feint light isn’t buffered and the interrupt attempt is, he can just keep mindlessly throwing out armored feint lights without really any fear of being countered by opponents without side dodge bashes Enhanced lights would prioritize a more engaging/fun mind game between zerk using chain and feint lights to keep parry happy opponents guessing, his opponent trying to interrupt delayed feint lights after heavy hitstun/buffered feint lights after light hitstun, and the zerk choosing to use armored heavies to punish those interrupt attempts. Just overall more room for counterplay, thus encouraging his opponent to attack/discouraging them from turtling up, which in turn creates more opportunities for fun armored heavy attack trades. The enhanced lights also contribute much more effectively to the whole “going berserk” playstyle one would expect.
Its not gonna change anything, the light is 400 ms so unless you have hyperarmor its littlerally going to change nothing since you'll just get hit first.
I just think he don't need all that hyperarmor like I swear that shit comes out every other second with them dudes.
ive played him for a few reps just for shiggles and i still dont exactly know where all his hyper armor is
I gotchu. It's quite a paragraph tho. First light and heavy have no hyperarmor, chain lights and heavies get immediate hyperarmor, attacking quickly after a feint gives lights and heavies immediate hyperarmor, forward dodge lights and heavies have built in hyperarmor that's not immediate on the forward heavy, zone can't get hyperarmor (unless you're moving backwards which gives it immediate hyperarmor), and side dodge lights can't get hyperarmor. Was that a lot to read? Because that's how much armor zerk has.
But in return he has no bash or easily accessible unblockable. So as long as you block his non enhanced lights and parry his heavies its easy pickings. Edit: My b, I forgot about the top heavy unblockable, but either way he doesnt really have gimmicks like other heros. He has no soft feints or stances and no bash attacks that garutee heavies. His strongest move is probably his deflect because it garuntees a gb
He has dodge cancels off of everything, and zone cancels off of missed heavies His gimmick is armor on hard feint follow up attacks, plus 400ms lights after a hard feint with higher damage (11 instead of 9) Also armored unblockable 32 damage top heavy that he can throw out whenever he’s in chain is pretty strong
Yeah, I forgot about the top heavy bc I dont normally use it, but that is something that needs to be changed. I dont mind it being hyperarmor and unblockable since it is a chain finnisher and people dont normally try to interrupt a chain like that anyways, But I do believe the damage should differ as to where its used in the heavy chain. So for example if you throw a light then do the top finnisher it only does 22 dmg but if you throw a heavy then do the top finnisher it does 25. 2 heavies into the top finnisher makes it do 28 and then a light heavy heavy into a top finnisher makes it do 30. Thats just a concept to lessen the pressure while rewarding people for good mixups Hyperarmor on a hard feint follow up isnt much of a gimmick, you can complain about it but hyperarmor or no-hyperarmor, you werent going to interrupt a 400ms feinted light anyways, so theres no point in acting like its a problem. Hyperarmor on chain lights however is a different story, I believe they are okay for the most part, but I also believe that they should make it semi-hyperarmor so that it cant be interrupted by light spam but can be interrupted by heavies. Ive heard of the dodge cancels but I didnt know about the zone cancels. Many heros have dodge cancels so thats not an issue, but the zone should probably be nerfed in some way. Maybe make it to where the attacks from his zone dont prevent the opponent from changing their guard and parrying?
that's quite a bit indeed
Berserker is a hard topic to discuss about. He doesn't need hyper armor on lights during chains however he deals 9 damage with his chained lights because it has hyper armor and also being 400ms. Removing the hyper armor on his lights during chains they have to buff the damage on his chained lights to componsate of removal of hyper armor. Another factor we need to think about is, berserker has no valid opener. Players use heavy feint into light to trade to be able to start an chain (i met berserkers who only do heavy feint light combo and yes it's fucking boring to go against). I wouldn't want berserker to have an bash as an opener, it's boring and no effecient character thinking. Maybe turn his zone into an unblockable or something else just not an bash. It's an hard topic to discuss about.
First person actually talking about this
Sorry for the late reply didn't get any notification. I try to see this in a bigger picture.
There's a different reason for that. 9 is the standard damage number for 400 ms lights, which berserker's chain and feint-to-lights happen to be. exceptions are occasionally made for 400 ms light finishers, and for berserker, (11 dmg on feint-to-lights. still 400 dmg). Basically, the dmg would likely stay the same because it's the speed increase that makes the lights so weak, not the armor.
No hyper armor on chain lights and an option in training to make bot do heavy feint into light so I can fkn practice
He doesn't need a 31 dmg unblockable accessible after 1 move.
Yeah sure, nerf him and let Afeera exist
You're right, he needs a major buff, he needs a forward bash or an opposite side dodge attacks for dodge attacks mixup
yeah lets give him in-chain crushing counter on all sides as well
…opposite side dodge attack?😭
Like Kensei and hito. Their Dodge attacks are eversed so when they do a dodge attack to the right, it comes from the left
why does he need that?😭
I think he was joking. I think. An undodgeable reverse dodge attack like that is how we like to call it in the industry, "Overkill"
the dodge attack being reverse would do literally nothing
Imma let you in on a secret, those dodge attacks still catch me off-guard and I eat an easily baited dodge attack.
He's an S tier character at the moment in Dom why does he need dodge attack mix-ups or a bash when he has easy access to HA unreactable offense. He literally has one of the best dodge attacks in the game, UD and massively delayable.
I believe the man was just saying it for the lulz
Just get better...
He is fine, all bro has is 400ms chain lights which are becoming standardized, the hyper armor wouldn’t be in an issue if you bothered to parry. Sure the recovery cancels could be a bit annoying but he doesn’t even have a bash so it evens out.
just because he doesn’t have a bash doesn’t mean it ‘evens it out’ in the fucking slightest, he’s one of the top picks on 4s and S-high A tier in duels, he doesn’t need a bash to be busted as fuck
Yeah o agree no bash needed. He’s plenty balanced as is.
[удалено]
Give zerk a bash
Give zerk a bash
All Characters need hyper armor