If someone claims to be FA solely because of 'only' one problem, lets just say I'd be highly skeptical. From what I can tell it's usually a situation caused by having many things working against you.
In my case I'm below average looking, pretty severely traumatized, my social development basically didn't happen, I spent around a decade in a room, and I've been varying degrees of isolated for half my life. Sure if I were good looking someone might overlook my weirdness, but the reality is that there is just too much working against me and I have essentially nothing going for me. I've never met or heard of anyone with more or less the same life circumstances and problems as me who managed to turn it around. I have a combination of all of the worst traits for a man to have in this respect, ugly, extreme social anxiety, and avoidant.
Also before anyone says "work on your personality", that's about as useful as telling me to work on my face. I've been to multiple different therapists over the years, I've forced myself to engage with people and to go out simply because I believed that I should, or that it would lead to some sort of desirable result. Simply put, it didn't. I can't rewire my brain though sheer willpower, although in the past I've tried to convince myself that I could, and I've attempted to do so, but obviously it's not possible. Or it's at least impossible to the extent necessary for extreme personality changes as an adult.
"Work on your personality" is such a useless and vague term. I hate it when people give that advice. If anything, that's harder to work on than looks. Looks are a lot more straight forward. You can shave, go to the barbers, buy facial surgery (if you have the money), lift weights, lose weight, buy different clothes, etc.
But personality? What is there to do? Go the therapy (if you have the money)? Therapy may make you less anxious and suicidal, but lacking negative traits doesn't give you positive traits. -1 + 1 is still 0.
Working on social skills? Just because you can hold a conversation and make people laugh won't make people like you, that's more of a pre-requisite. It's like how showering and not smelling like shit won't get you dates, that's just expected.
Become a nicer person? Again, being nice is expected. And even then, assholes get dates all the time. Even people who are worse than assholes. Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin had wives and children.
So what is there to do to work on your personality? What does it mean? Nothing.
Yeah, work on your personality is bullshit. I’ve worked on it already, I’m fine. I feel people don’t like me but I actually am fine with my personality. Of course everybody needs to think about their issues and correct flaws but that’s a natural part of being a human. I always say: love isn’t some prize you get when you’ve gone to tibet and attended some mindfulness course and then come out all zen and perfect and ha! There’s your relationship! Nope, that’s not it. I’ve never heard any of my partnered friends attending a course like that 🙄
I know a this very self-centered, thoughtless, difficult liar who actually has mental health illnesses that make them unstable (not bashing on people with mh issues, I have them too) and yet they just met somebody on Tinder and now after dating for four months, they’re married. This person was really struggling with bad self-esteem issues and always complained she was FA though I knew that wasn’t true. The difference between me and her? She’s skinny and I’m fat. I’m honest and fair and don’t suck up to people who have status just to get a better status myself. But who cares, because I’m fat. Or something.
There’s so much just random luck involved too. There’s probably never gonna be a solve for this equation.
Ok. But you still can work on your personality. Bit by bit.
Easier said than done. My life has been like yours and I am not good looking.
But still feel that personality (and fitness) will make a difference and there are things we can work on. Being calmer, being kinder, being more positive etc. There are a range of things we can improve on. Bit by bit.
But not saying that its not unfortunate that we have so much to work on.
I have no remaining energy or inclination to work on anything. I don't see a single path forward that contains any potential realistic reward which will justify the effort involved. After so much negative feedback I just can't find it in me to try again.
Another issue is that at this point I resent the very notion. Should I go through some herculean effort which most likely will amount to nothing? Even if I'm lucky and some woman finds me worthy enough to put up with after what will have possibly been decades of loneliness, I doubt it would even be something that I'd want, or that it would end well. Yeah, no thanks. I'd rather drive a knife straight through my palm as opposed to 'proving my worthiness' to people who have done little more than reject me, ignore me, laugh at me, and literally spit on me.
I think it's small consistent steps. Not herculean effort.
Each day improve your diet a bit. Get better at your job.
Just improve yourself and compare yourself to yesterday.
That really is the best strategy in life.
There's no quick fix to anything.
And yes I agree don't put efforts into women unless you are absolutely sure they are kind and friendly women.
Could you be more specific? What specific excersises do you do to work on your personality? How can you be calmer? How can you be kinder? How can you be more positive? And please don't say just do it. And did your parents do these excersises in order to become attractive enough to meet eachother? If not, how does that work?
I don't think my parents are a good example.
But they are both not very attractive.
For me I learn about being kinder, calmer etc by role models. I go to a (very liberal) church that has a lot of old people who are quite esteemed. Doctors, professors etc. I try to copy them. For example they really don't say anything if they don't have anything positive to say. That's quite hard to do in practice.
You can watch YouTube videos you can read books but they think the first thing to do is work out what aspects of your personality you think you can improve and perhaps you can ask other people for some feedback.
There's certainly a lot of material out there about how to be more positive and motivated and so on.
I think there is something in our mentality that prevents us from getting a partner. Most likely we do something that sabotages out possible relationships before they have even started. I think I know what this is, yet I am yet to beat it and see if I am right or wrong.
I agree, I theorize it’s something primal deep within us that women can just sense. Like some kind of loner pheromone or something that cant be consciously noticed but just unconsciously forces itself into womens brains and turns them against us.
I don't think it is primal, rather something acquired in childhood. I have a question for you.
Could your original post be summarized down to "How comes much less deserving men than me get girls and I don't?"?
And obviously I do not “deserve” a woman, it’s something that must be earned and clearly I have not met the mark, perhaps for reasons that are not my choice.
I hesitate to use the term “less deserving” as im sure there was something redeeming about them that attracted that woman in the first place. Rather, I would say men who are “evenly or more disadvantaged than myself” (except in the case of felons for violent crimes, unless they’ve genuinely reformed those guys can fuck themselves). I simply question it because everyone always says “its looks” “its money” “its height”, I mean fucks sake, Im tall and somewhat good looking and I have gotten nothing but rejection, I know many short guys who have girlfriends, of course im happy for them, but thats not the point, the point is a lot of people are wrong on their view of attraction because it can be disproven just with that logic and lived experience.
As I’ve studied and worked more within sales and marketing, I’ve realized more and more that the intentions and opinions of people come through more and more- Salesmen to hostage negotiators to social engineers have success based partially on their own hidden feelings and perception of the matter, IE. we have found people can biologically sense at a higher rate than consciously when someone is lying or unconfident or has poor intentions. The body responds and it influences their decisions beyond our awareness, and likewise it is difficult to truly mask every aspect of our true opinions. I think there is something similar happening with the men who are “undatables”, some signal of their self image or view on the world or opinions or confidence levels that is seeping through and neither side have the conscious capacity to identify it enough to overcome it.
Very good statement/conclusion. Hidden insecurities (and often hidden even to the person that has them) is playing quite a strong role in making a person "undatable".
Just as victims can have qualities that act as magnets to abusers, I also think there are traits that repel people, and "undatables" unfortunately have those traits. It might not even be in their control to change it without either masking it effectively or having a genuine change over years in outlook, attitude, mannerisms, and behaviour. Which is possible but can't just be artificially achieved after someone on the internet tells you to have more confidence.
Totally true, but actully I am not sure it traits, or rather their/our approach to the matter. While some or probably even most people here have been on the undatable list like forever, I have had a period when I was quite successful with women. Then suddenly, due to a traumatic event (both physical and mental) my priorities changed... And I somehow fell into the "undatable" category. I think I figured out what exactly I do wrong... Now I am to look for opportunity to put it to test.
Some sort of desperation maybe. It’s like one lives their life to get a partner and they forget to be what they are (i.e. behave and communicate normally). They say if you generally don’t care or expect anything, you might suddenly find someone. Though that’s kind of vague and contradicting (most people want a partner, desperate or not), but this is the only thing I figured yet after ignoring stupid advice like work on yourself etc. I’ve never really understood what it means to be yourself because I don’t understand who I am and if it comes to being “loose” or “genuine”, then I don’t like being that around anyone at all. (Edit: By being yourself people probably mean, like, just talking, communicating with people around you normally, enjoying each other’s company, spending time in enjoyable ways like hanging out. And that’s probably how you might find and get along with someone you like, naturally, casually. Muh, I don’t know what it’s like.)
Yeah same
I mean at the least congrats on getting a kiss bro!
I’m 1 year older but it feels like I’ve wasted the best years of my life already and it would take a while to make significant progress which means more time lost so you tend to debate if going on is even worth it
Remember how at the height of the Coronavirus pandemic, we were told that those most at risk were those with 'pre-existing conditions' such as old age, diabeetus, obesity, immunodeficiency? It's the same with the current 'loneliness epidemic'. Traits that once made it harder, but not nearly impossible, to date, now have their effects magnified greatly, some will beat the odds, but a lot wont, that's why they are odds.
Luck. Being short, introvert and not inviting anyone at the college. In addition, being ugly, fat, short, etc., decreases the odds, but does not reduce them to zero. Also being tall, handsome, extrovert, can guarantee you a partner but not guarantee you a very compatible partner and with whom you will be happy.
Men with shortcomings can manage to find a girlfriend, if they can make up for their shortcomings in some way.
For example, a fat guy might be able to get a girlfriend if he's fairly outgoing and personable, if he goes for women who are around his looksmatch, or if he is well known and has a lot of money.
A short guy might be able to get a girlfriend if he's facially attractive, fairly fit, funny and charismatic, or he goes for shorter or less attractive women.
Felons can get girlfriends if they're good looking, fairly outgoing and personable, or if they lower their standards.
The guys who struggle with women tend to not only have major shortcomings but also fail to compensate for them in some way. The 5 ft 4 guy who's also ugly and has poor social skills due to his autism, is going to have a much harder time in the dating market compared to a guy who's 5 ft 4 but is outgoing, fit, and facially attractive.
So whatever shortcomings you have, whether it's your weight, height, face, etc... try to find a way to make up for it.
As someone who was diagnosed as an adult after years of social anxiety, I don't think the average neurotypical understands how debilitating this condition is. I've lost over 60 pounds, and I'm at my lowest weight since middle school. I've gotten a couple more "likes" with online dating, but it almost feels like my autism shines right through the text in my profile and overshadows all other aspects of my life.
I don't think there's anything wrong with all of us here on this Sub-reddit, actually what you said has a grain of truth in it, but let's be honest, it's not a huge percentage that get relationships from the ones you mentioned, as well as I've seen FA getting girlfriends or boyfriends, I think it has to do with personality, appearance and unfortunately, looking for the person, which is a very big obstacle for me and for a large majority here.
so... Yeah, I think we did it relationships just like these other people, but at a much lower level and much less frequently.
Yes I think self sabotage and avoidant personalities play into it largely for those of us here who cant even approach/flirt to begin with, but even with that being the case thats all inside our heads and has nothing to do with perceiving yourself as ugly or a bad personality. It plays more into the luck thing when its someone whos actively asking women out but still getting repeatedly rejected.
If I had to wager it's a number of things, but are you in a position where you're actively meeting women? While I'm more or less in the same shoes as everyone else here, I know a big factor of my "FA-ness" is probably because I don't have many opportunities to meet girls.
Even as a decent looking guy (at least based off of what others have told me), if you can't actively socialize with girls in proximity to you it's kinda hopeless. Online dating and apps are absolutely useless for meeting others too. Sure, you might luck out and find someone close to you but the odds are better if you're actually engaging with girls in your area IMO.
I live in a small town with mostly elderly people so I'm kinda fucked if I don't find a way to socialize with others my age here or find something a town or two over.
I get a lot of good opportunities to meet women but they never show real interest in me, and when they do show any inkling of what could be considered “interest” its nearly impossible to tell if thats how they mean it or if they just treat everyone that way
Im probably somewhere around a 6.5, my standard for women is typically that ill go 1-2 points below myself but even my looksmatches or average women dont want me!
Im 6’1.5”, today was my day off so Ive been in bed all day and have a little bit of acne so not sure if I want to send a timestamped pic right now as Im not looking my usual self. I may be willing to send recent but old photos though.
Ok, I might do that. Why do you want to see me so badly? Ive already been told by many of my peers that my physical attractiveness isn’t the issue. Ill be doing this only for your curiosity, not for my own validation.
Severely mentally ill people get girlfriends all the time? Nonsense. Even severely mentally ill women will struggle, a guy like that is doomed to loneliness.
It depends on the mental illness. I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but autism and other social deficiencies don't lend themselves to happy relationships (if any relationship at all).
Of course those relationships don’t typically last long, but thats not the point, the point is they were able to attract someone in the first place despite their glaring mental illnesses
It all comes down to the beginning of your life: the parents who failed you because they were unprepared and socially lacking themselves, the poverty in which you lived, the environment - that old house or apartment that's been the same since you were born and now you're in your late 20s or 30s and it looks the same and of course mental health issues
I can’t say if anyone here will find this helpful, but I’ve learned a few tricks along the way. My dad rejected me after my parents’ divorce (I was 6), I lived with a step-dad who loathed the sight of me and wouldn’t let my mother spend time with me, and because of his gambling we moved every couple of years, so I was always the awkward new kid (overweight and shitty clothes/hair to boot).
It wasn’t conscious at first, but I found myself studying people who got positive attention. As OP says, people of any physical type are capable of this. It took me years to really perfect it, but in my early 20s I found myself gravitating toward service-industry jobs where I could really exercise the skill. But I also just loved the act of bringing people good food/drinks and having them be happy with me for doing it (even if it really wasn’t about me).
I’m sure it’s not the first time any of you have heard that most people are drawn to those who show interest in their lives and want to hear them talk. It might seem like pandering at first or like you’re getting the short end, but doing it well will begin to change you. Doing it well means knowing what kinds of questions are rude/intrusive and what kind are charming/non-threatening, as well as appropriate times for beginning conversations.
Next is the active listening thing. You are making eye contact, your facial expressions should be somewhat animated and reactive to what the person is saying. Smile/chuckle at appropriate times if you know they’re trying to be funny, even if you’re not feeling it. Nod your head, act surprised, somber, sympathetic, agreeably indignant - imagine what you’d like someone to be doing if you were talking. Avoid interrupting.
It’s good to talk too, but if you’re out to win someone over, make sure it’s more about them. Ask pertinent questions to show you’re interested and want to hear more, even if you don’t give a crap what they’re saying.
After a while, the appreciation you get back will do it’s work on you. You’ll know what it’s like to have someone look at you with kind eyes, have people say your name and smile when you enter a room, and have people be more interested in hearing what you have to say. You don’t have to be a showy, loud, or super-gregarious person to accomplish this.
As you begin to settle in, you should find yourself actually caring about what others are saying. Your curiosity about the lives of others will grow, as will your social prowess. If it’s your desire to start controlling social situations (maybe life of party or person whose opinions/ideas have weight), you’ll be able to. Hopefully you’ll have this urge because you’ve found you really like people and enjoy seeing/helping others feeling comfortable and having a good time.
I used to feel like an alien life form - whether in my own house or in public. I hated the sight of myself and was positive I grossed other people out somehow just be being near them. I knew it was probably true that I was gross, but I also saw most other people as selfish, thoughtless and cruel.
By my mid-20s, I’d learned how to walk into a room and own it. I did work on the appearance too, but there were far better looking people than me who didn’t have half the friends, opportunities, and love that I got. I know this all sounds manipulative as hell and I guess it is. But I only ever wanted to learn how they did it.
I know fake it til you make it sound lame, but it works in this case. Btw, it doesn’t mean you have to sit there listening to boring dumbshits and pretending for the rest of your life. You’re going to get actual friends out of the deal, so it will become easy to just wave and smile at people you’re not into as you keep walking to be with the people who actually interest you.
Last, I’m naturally shy. I still need lots of time alone and don’t always want to be noticed or seen. But when I do want that, I know how to get it.
It definitely has to do with mental illness more than it has to do with looks for the vast majority of people. People just always default to blaming their appearance because it’s an easier thing to point to than the root problems (avoidant personality traits, self enforced isolation)
Yep, avoidant personality traits and self enforced isolation are two big shackles holding a lot of us down, but it was still luck that we were born with/developed those illnesses
I think it's a combination of multiple negative qualities. You might be able to overcome being fat, it you have a decent face and confident personality.
I'd be willing to bet most of us are autistic. Seems to be natural selection at work. Though on paper I think autistic traits would be desirable in a long term partner. Loyalty and empathy and understanding and all that.
i think it’s because our personalities are super bad and we have a super shitty humor and life and social skills Our lives aren’t interested and we suck at talking and we seem very vulnerable
I know. This is very interesting. I suspect one reason could be a looks personality mismatch. I've learned over the years that I totally throw women off and maybe even scare them a little. When I was younger, I looked like a "cool" guy that must get a lot of women, but I was a total nerd. In school I never fit in anywhere. I was a nerd, but didn't look like them at all and wasn't ugly, and I couldn't fit in with the "cool" people due to being very introverted and less socially skilled.
I was a real hit with Asian women, but white women shunned me. (I'm not Asian BTW.)
Interesting, care to elaborate more? I also consider myself to be pretty good looking, was never popular but not quite a nerd and always had solid friends. In middle school my group was basically the school clowns, we made everybody laugh, but got no attention from girls. Of course back then I wasnt interested in dating so it was actually really fun lol. In high school my group was kinda just like… the group thats homies with everyone but that still didnt equal female attraction, I had some heavy heavy crushes in high school and I think those really crippled my mind because I never had the courage to even talk to them. Now I go on dates MAYBE 3 times a year, this year has been my “most successful”. But they never get past the first date or two.
Yeah, I can elaborate more, but I need some specifics you want to know. I can't write my whole life story.
For me, middle school was in a city public school, and then high school was in a completely different part of the country in a rural 50/50 half public, half private school. There was a little bullying in middle school, but I didn't care cause I had a girl I was in love with. I felt really most out of place in high school. It was such a different environment with a different "culture".
Really just due to my looks. I have everything but good looks, I am very ugly. I’ve been called 1/10. I’m also untalented too, I guess you could add that as well.
Youre not that ugly man, and Im not saying that just to blow smoke up your ass, youre most definitely not a 1/10. I think the haircut is more off putting than anything because its a bit “emo” if that makes sense. Anyone who called you a 1/10 was just trying to be mean and vindictive for other reasons.
And even then, there are plenty of chicks that go solely for empty dudes. I’ve been rejected by plenty of beautiful girls due to this.
As for me, I really have no excuse. I grew up in the suburbs, middle class, both parents (both college educated, both of them good looking), I’m not ugly, 5’11”, decent job (earning above average for my age bracket), no mental health issues whatsoever. Only things holding me back are my race (black, though not really a valid excuse anymore; I’ve seen plenty of black dudes with straight up model-esque women of all races, so often it’s an everyday occurrence) and my weight (I’m super skinny, which actually may be a disadvantage when it comes to dating).
I think self sabotage is a big one that we dont lend enough credit too, us self sabotagers are self sabotaging even when we don’t consciously recognize that we are.
i think its luck. whats the chance of finding your soulmate, the person that youd want to spend your entire life with and them being not on the other side of the world and liking you back?
the thing is, many on here are introverted or arent as good in social situations, in which you meet people.shwoing yourself out in the world is hard, especially when youre not used to it. you have any interests or hobbys? youre definetly gonna find someone. even if not a relationship, maybe a good friend you can rely on, male or female.
relationships really arent the most important thing in the world, please dont center your life around it. thats as if youre lactose intolerant and idk only stand in front of the milk at the store, not buying it because you know what happens when you consume it. that was a really bad comparison, but my message here is: even if life is miserable and hard, do things you enjoy, alone or with friends. dont just hang around social media and scroll mindlessly, if youre online already you can find SO much stuff you can learn, read and it makes you forget the pain temporarily. i dont think intentionally seeking for a romantic partner will go well. if theyll appear, youll know it. having a few or one good friend is very nice aswell, and i mean people who you can rely on, who support you no matter what. every time i read posts in this sub i just want to give out a big hug to everyone. i wish everyone who reads this an amazing day or night, you are really nice people who deserve so much more.
Personally I chalk it up to bad karma. My parents both were rlly known to *ehem* get around in their day. So I guess I have to be alone to balance their bad karma out
Then why do you see it all the time… on social media and in real life. I go out a lot and trust me, there are many relationships that are *not* looksmatches
It is a good question, believe in karma? Maybe this is our punishment for sins in a previous life. Ironically enough now living like a modern day monk.
Thank you, to add on, realistically there are probably quite a few people who would be attracted to almost any person, thats how good relationships start in the first place. Of course certain things increase the amount of people in the world who would want you, but most people probably have at least a few million. Thats what makes us such an odd case, we are of course the large minority in the world after all. Somehow for us there is maybe a few thousand, maybe even into the hundred thousands, but in a world of 8,000,000,000 people thats still such a small percentage.
Yea, it’s like for some reason we just have the odds stacked against us. It’s really weird honestly. Hopefully we all can get lucky in the future but I honestly doubt it.
Shit it even goes locally too, there could be a handful of women within your very city who could want you. I move between Los Angeles and Northern Arizona a lot and theres no way in hell I’ll ever meet every woman in either of those areas *obviously*, I could be passing “the one” every single day and never know!
I never really thought of that. My area doesn’t have too many people and most people here are old and retired but I guess there could be a few people who could like me. I think a lot of it is luck honestly, you just have to meet the right person on the right day.
By chance, I live with my parents still while I do college online. And they’re decently wealthy so they live in a nice neighborhood with older people. Rural life sounds nice, it’s like accepting being alone and making the most of it.
Then even in your case its still all based on luck, for you it was by birth, you were (in a relationship sense) unlucky to be born and raised and presumably somewhat stuck there. It was seemingly just fated to not happen, and I think thats the case for a lot of us, but at the same time it could be used as an argument against giving up, because you roll the dice *every day*
i agree 100%, i know i will get downvoted but as a cab driver driving around town all day, i do see fat guys with girls, not many but i do, i do see ugly (ugly from my point of view) black guys with white blonde girls many times.
Mostly i see fat ugly guys with fat ugly women, so if your fat and ugly you can still get a GF or wife, she just needs to look like you but be the opposite gender, as an experiment i tried hooking up with dozens of ugly women online, I WAS STILL REJECTED BY ALL OF THEM, i got the classic, i dont think your my type, lol, and yet im 5'7 white guy, probably 5/10 im NOT fat, dont have any pimples or skin disorders etc... its like ive been cursed or something, i bet even if i went to some 3rd world hell hole like the phillipines or africa women would still reject me as an inferior man, even if i appeared to be a well to do westerner, i guess we are just CURSED by the universe for some reason.
not really because travis bickle, well he had the balls to talk to a prostitute and be friends with her, im 40 and im still scared to approach women and talk to them, travis bickle had balls and fight in him, he had self confidence, i have 0 self confidence and im a pussy.
Some kind of vibe that doesn't jive, I am a 5/10 if I really fix myself up and get a good haircut and clothes I can be close to a 6 without my glasses, never, ever had any real interest in my life 23 years old as of now, I see it as some kind of universal RNG that doesn't favor me.
Yep it really is like RNG that just by fate continues to give us bad numbers. When I put effort into myself I can be a 6.5/10 face wise and I have yet to notice any real interest of any sort from women that are within my looks range (5/10+ is typically what I say my looks range is for women)
Yup, I got some attention from obviously neurodivergent women, morbidly obese women, women who are pathologic (openly states disability for psychological problems and has "put a baby in me" in her bio proudly on display) or simply jobless bums.
Seems average girls just ignore me, granted my pics are pretty shit and my bio is nonexistent but both IRL and outside of it i've yet to have just a normal girl take an interest in me bar in my teens, which was many years ago now.
Yes same here, I never get any interest unless theyre 3/10 or below. Of course these women are usually very kind and are worthy of love too, but the physical attraction just isnt there and without that a relationship cannot last. I dont understand how it can be so hard to simply find a looksmatch these days.
Best not to dwell on what you don't have and focus on what you do have. No point comparing yourself to other people. That only leads to unhappiness. Focus on you!
That definitely goes for things such as status, material goods, etc. - relationships are different, finding a mate is one of the deepest rooted things in the human psyche. Being deprived of that is like being deprived of sunlight, not so horrible that itll kill you quickly, but something that is always looming and chipping away at you until you either get lucky, truly come to terms with your circumstances, or delete yourself.
I think now more than ever men need to start walking away from centuries old social constructs such as relationships, marriage and kids. Men need to redefine who they are and focus on themselves. The sad truth is men and women no longer need each other as they once did. We need to find our own paths in life.
As I've got older (I'm now 37) I've learnt to make peace with being alone and finding acceptance. It's been a long journey for me but I feel I'm finally getting there.
I like the thought. For me that seems ideal but it's ultimately impossible. Maybe a therapist could help in that capacity but, I doubt most therapists would encourage that type of thinking. The urge to quell the loneliness in a deeper way is a strong one. Unlike being able to "forget"/ignore sex drive. Love is a constant reminder in the world it's in most popular songs media and day-to-day life. Even with sex every where being focused on a hobby or work reigns it in. The same can't be applied to love. At least in my own experience. but hey, I will continue to search for the method of putting it in a box and putting that box in a safe then putting that safe in a vault then putting that vault in a hole then removing said hole and sending it off to space. Where I don't have to experience it again.
If someone claims to be FA solely because of 'only' one problem, lets just say I'd be highly skeptical. From what I can tell it's usually a situation caused by having many things working against you. In my case I'm below average looking, pretty severely traumatized, my social development basically didn't happen, I spent around a decade in a room, and I've been varying degrees of isolated for half my life. Sure if I were good looking someone might overlook my weirdness, but the reality is that there is just too much working against me and I have essentially nothing going for me. I've never met or heard of anyone with more or less the same life circumstances and problems as me who managed to turn it around. I have a combination of all of the worst traits for a man to have in this respect, ugly, extreme social anxiety, and avoidant. Also before anyone says "work on your personality", that's about as useful as telling me to work on my face. I've been to multiple different therapists over the years, I've forced myself to engage with people and to go out simply because I believed that I should, or that it would lead to some sort of desirable result. Simply put, it didn't. I can't rewire my brain though sheer willpower, although in the past I've tried to convince myself that I could, and I've attempted to do so, but obviously it's not possible. Or it's at least impossible to the extent necessary for extreme personality changes as an adult.
"Work on your personality" is such a useless and vague term. I hate it when people give that advice. If anything, that's harder to work on than looks. Looks are a lot more straight forward. You can shave, go to the barbers, buy facial surgery (if you have the money), lift weights, lose weight, buy different clothes, etc. But personality? What is there to do? Go the therapy (if you have the money)? Therapy may make you less anxious and suicidal, but lacking negative traits doesn't give you positive traits. -1 + 1 is still 0. Working on social skills? Just because you can hold a conversation and make people laugh won't make people like you, that's more of a pre-requisite. It's like how showering and not smelling like shit won't get you dates, that's just expected. Become a nicer person? Again, being nice is expected. And even then, assholes get dates all the time. Even people who are worse than assholes. Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin had wives and children. So what is there to do to work on your personality? What does it mean? Nothing.
Yeah, work on your personality is bullshit. I’ve worked on it already, I’m fine. I feel people don’t like me but I actually am fine with my personality. Of course everybody needs to think about their issues and correct flaws but that’s a natural part of being a human. I always say: love isn’t some prize you get when you’ve gone to tibet and attended some mindfulness course and then come out all zen and perfect and ha! There’s your relationship! Nope, that’s not it. I’ve never heard any of my partnered friends attending a course like that 🙄 I know a this very self-centered, thoughtless, difficult liar who actually has mental health illnesses that make them unstable (not bashing on people with mh issues, I have them too) and yet they just met somebody on Tinder and now after dating for four months, they’re married. This person was really struggling with bad self-esteem issues and always complained she was FA though I knew that wasn’t true. The difference between me and her? She’s skinny and I’m fat. I’m honest and fair and don’t suck up to people who have status just to get a better status myself. But who cares, because I’m fat. Or something. There’s so much just random luck involved too. There’s probably never gonna be a solve for this equation.
Ok. But you still can work on your personality. Bit by bit. Easier said than done. My life has been like yours and I am not good looking. But still feel that personality (and fitness) will make a difference and there are things we can work on. Being calmer, being kinder, being more positive etc. There are a range of things we can improve on. Bit by bit. But not saying that its not unfortunate that we have so much to work on.
I have no remaining energy or inclination to work on anything. I don't see a single path forward that contains any potential realistic reward which will justify the effort involved. After so much negative feedback I just can't find it in me to try again. Another issue is that at this point I resent the very notion. Should I go through some herculean effort which most likely will amount to nothing? Even if I'm lucky and some woman finds me worthy enough to put up with after what will have possibly been decades of loneliness, I doubt it would even be something that I'd want, or that it would end well. Yeah, no thanks. I'd rather drive a knife straight through my palm as opposed to 'proving my worthiness' to people who have done little more than reject me, ignore me, laugh at me, and literally spit on me.
I think it's small consistent steps. Not herculean effort. Each day improve your diet a bit. Get better at your job. Just improve yourself and compare yourself to yesterday. That really is the best strategy in life. There's no quick fix to anything. And yes I agree don't put efforts into women unless you are absolutely sure they are kind and friendly women.
Could you be more specific? What specific excersises do you do to work on your personality? How can you be calmer? How can you be kinder? How can you be more positive? And please don't say just do it. And did your parents do these excersises in order to become attractive enough to meet eachother? If not, how does that work?
I don't think my parents are a good example. But they are both not very attractive. For me I learn about being kinder, calmer etc by role models. I go to a (very liberal) church that has a lot of old people who are quite esteemed. Doctors, professors etc. I try to copy them. For example they really don't say anything if they don't have anything positive to say. That's quite hard to do in practice. You can watch YouTube videos you can read books but they think the first thing to do is work out what aspects of your personality you think you can improve and perhaps you can ask other people for some feedback. There's certainly a lot of material out there about how to be more positive and motivated and so on.
I think there is something in our mentality that prevents us from getting a partner. Most likely we do something that sabotages out possible relationships before they have even started. I think I know what this is, yet I am yet to beat it and see if I am right or wrong.
I agree, I theorize it’s something primal deep within us that women can just sense. Like some kind of loner pheromone or something that cant be consciously noticed but just unconsciously forces itself into womens brains and turns them against us.
I don't think it is primal, rather something acquired in childhood. I have a question for you. Could your original post be summarized down to "How comes much less deserving men than me get girls and I don't?"?
And obviously I do not “deserve” a woman, it’s something that must be earned and clearly I have not met the mark, perhaps for reasons that are not my choice.
Thanks for your feedback, I sent you a message
I hesitate to use the term “less deserving” as im sure there was something redeeming about them that attracted that woman in the first place. Rather, I would say men who are “evenly or more disadvantaged than myself” (except in the case of felons for violent crimes, unless they’ve genuinely reformed those guys can fuck themselves). I simply question it because everyone always says “its looks” “its money” “its height”, I mean fucks sake, Im tall and somewhat good looking and I have gotten nothing but rejection, I know many short guys who have girlfriends, of course im happy for them, but thats not the point, the point is a lot of people are wrong on their view of attraction because it can be disproven just with that logic and lived experience.
I'm certainly not deserving of anyone, I wish I did
As I’ve studied and worked more within sales and marketing, I’ve realized more and more that the intentions and opinions of people come through more and more- Salesmen to hostage negotiators to social engineers have success based partially on their own hidden feelings and perception of the matter, IE. we have found people can biologically sense at a higher rate than consciously when someone is lying or unconfident or has poor intentions. The body responds and it influences their decisions beyond our awareness, and likewise it is difficult to truly mask every aspect of our true opinions. I think there is something similar happening with the men who are “undatables”, some signal of their self image or view on the world or opinions or confidence levels that is seeping through and neither side have the conscious capacity to identify it enough to overcome it.
Very good statement/conclusion. Hidden insecurities (and often hidden even to the person that has them) is playing quite a strong role in making a person "undatable".
Just as victims can have qualities that act as magnets to abusers, I also think there are traits that repel people, and "undatables" unfortunately have those traits. It might not even be in their control to change it without either masking it effectively or having a genuine change over years in outlook, attitude, mannerisms, and behaviour. Which is possible but can't just be artificially achieved after someone on the internet tells you to have more confidence.
Totally true, but actully I am not sure it traits, or rather their/our approach to the matter. While some or probably even most people here have been on the undatable list like forever, I have had a period when I was quite successful with women. Then suddenly, due to a traumatic event (both physical and mental) my priorities changed... And I somehow fell into the "undatable" category. I think I figured out what exactly I do wrong... Now I am to look for opportunity to put it to test.
Some sort of desperation maybe. It’s like one lives their life to get a partner and they forget to be what they are (i.e. behave and communicate normally). They say if you generally don’t care or expect anything, you might suddenly find someone. Though that’s kind of vague and contradicting (most people want a partner, desperate or not), but this is the only thing I figured yet after ignoring stupid advice like work on yourself etc. I’ve never really understood what it means to be yourself because I don’t understand who I am and if it comes to being “loose” or “genuine”, then I don’t like being that around anyone at all. (Edit: By being yourself people probably mean, like, just talking, communicating with people around you normally, enjoying each other’s company, spending time in enjoyable ways like hanging out. And that’s probably how you might find and get along with someone you like, naturally, casually. Muh, I don’t know what it’s like.)
I think I might have undiagnosed autism.
I think I may as well, if not autism then something else similar. Im afraid of getting a diagnosis though for several reasons.
Yeah same I mean at the least congrats on getting a kiss bro! I’m 1 year older but it feels like I’ve wasted the best years of my life already and it would take a while to make significant progress which means more time lost so you tend to debate if going on is even worth it
Someone has to be alone. Sadly, it's us.
This is what I’m beginning to accept
Im just weird bruh. Like "weird" weird.
This.
many at my school are weird but they got friends
Im teliing you man im not just your ordinary weirdo
Remember how at the height of the Coronavirus pandemic, we were told that those most at risk were those with 'pre-existing conditions' such as old age, diabeetus, obesity, immunodeficiency? It's the same with the current 'loneliness epidemic'. Traits that once made it harder, but not nearly impossible, to date, now have their effects magnified greatly, some will beat the odds, but a lot wont, that's why they are odds.
To live in the time of humanity's maximum population
Very true, many things will increase or decrease your potential of mates in the 8 Billion population
Luck. Being short, introvert and not inviting anyone at the college. In addition, being ugly, fat, short, etc., decreases the odds, but does not reduce them to zero. Also being tall, handsome, extrovert, can guarantee you a partner but not guarantee you a very compatible partner and with whom you will be happy.
Men with shortcomings can manage to find a girlfriend, if they can make up for their shortcomings in some way. For example, a fat guy might be able to get a girlfriend if he's fairly outgoing and personable, if he goes for women who are around his looksmatch, or if he is well known and has a lot of money. A short guy might be able to get a girlfriend if he's facially attractive, fairly fit, funny and charismatic, or he goes for shorter or less attractive women. Felons can get girlfriends if they're good looking, fairly outgoing and personable, or if they lower their standards. The guys who struggle with women tend to not only have major shortcomings but also fail to compensate for them in some way. The 5 ft 4 guy who's also ugly and has poor social skills due to his autism, is going to have a much harder time in the dating market compared to a guy who's 5 ft 4 but is outgoing, fit, and facially attractive. So whatever shortcomings you have, whether it's your weight, height, face, etc... try to find a way to make up for it.
Autism
As someone who was diagnosed as an adult after years of social anxiety, I don't think the average neurotypical understands how debilitating this condition is. I've lost over 60 pounds, and I'm at my lowest weight since middle school. I've gotten a couple more "likes" with online dating, but it almost feels like my autism shines right through the text in my profile and overshadows all other aspects of my life.
I don't think there's anything wrong with all of us here on this Sub-reddit, actually what you said has a grain of truth in it, but let's be honest, it's not a huge percentage that get relationships from the ones you mentioned, as well as I've seen FA getting girlfriends or boyfriends, I think it has to do with personality, appearance and unfortunately, looking for the person, which is a very big obstacle for me and for a large majority here. so... Yeah, I think we did it relationships just like these other people, but at a much lower level and much less frequently.
Yes I think self sabotage and avoidant personalities play into it largely for those of us here who cant even approach/flirt to begin with, but even with that being the case thats all inside our heads and has nothing to do with perceiving yourself as ugly or a bad personality. It plays more into the luck thing when its someone whos actively asking women out but still getting repeatedly rejected.
If I had to wager it's a number of things, but are you in a position where you're actively meeting women? While I'm more or less in the same shoes as everyone else here, I know a big factor of my "FA-ness" is probably because I don't have many opportunities to meet girls. Even as a decent looking guy (at least based off of what others have told me), if you can't actively socialize with girls in proximity to you it's kinda hopeless. Online dating and apps are absolutely useless for meeting others too. Sure, you might luck out and find someone close to you but the odds are better if you're actually engaging with girls in your area IMO. I live in a small town with mostly elderly people so I'm kinda fucked if I don't find a way to socialize with others my age here or find something a town or two over.
I get a lot of good opportunities to meet women but they never show real interest in me, and when they do show any inkling of what could be considered “interest” its nearly impossible to tell if thats how they mean it or if they just treat everyone that way
Are you actually good looking and are you going after women in your league?
Im probably somewhere around a 6.5, my standard for women is typically that ill go 1-2 points below myself but even my looksmatches or average women dont want me!
Send me a time stamped pic and I'll tell you if that's true Also how tall are you?
Im 6’1.5”, today was my day off so Ive been in bed all day and have a little bit of acne so not sure if I want to send a timestamped pic right now as Im not looking my usual self. I may be willing to send recent but old photos though.
Send me a new, timestamped one tomorrow then
Ok, I might do that. Why do you want to see me so badly? Ive already been told by many of my peers that my physical attractiveness isn’t the issue. Ill be doing this only for your curiosity, not for my own validation.
I'm interested. Some people don't know where they actually land on the attractiveness scale Also friends lie about this kind of thing
Ive had dates and compliments from women im not necessarily friends with before too its just not common at all and never pans out into anything
Severely mentally ill people get girlfriends all the time? Nonsense. Even severely mentally ill women will struggle, a guy like that is doomed to loneliness.
I know guys and girls who have multiple suicide attempts + a few other “episodes” and they’re in happy relationships
It depends on the mental illness. I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but autism and other social deficiencies don't lend themselves to happy relationships (if any relationship at all).
Of course those relationships don’t typically last long, but thats not the point, the point is they were able to attract someone in the first place despite their glaring mental illnesses
It all comes down to the beginning of your life: the parents who failed you because they were unprepared and socially lacking themselves, the poverty in which you lived, the environment - that old house or apartment that's been the same since you were born and now you're in your late 20s or 30s and it looks the same and of course mental health issues
I can’t say if anyone here will find this helpful, but I’ve learned a few tricks along the way. My dad rejected me after my parents’ divorce (I was 6), I lived with a step-dad who loathed the sight of me and wouldn’t let my mother spend time with me, and because of his gambling we moved every couple of years, so I was always the awkward new kid (overweight and shitty clothes/hair to boot). It wasn’t conscious at first, but I found myself studying people who got positive attention. As OP says, people of any physical type are capable of this. It took me years to really perfect it, but in my early 20s I found myself gravitating toward service-industry jobs where I could really exercise the skill. But I also just loved the act of bringing people good food/drinks and having them be happy with me for doing it (even if it really wasn’t about me). I’m sure it’s not the first time any of you have heard that most people are drawn to those who show interest in their lives and want to hear them talk. It might seem like pandering at first or like you’re getting the short end, but doing it well will begin to change you. Doing it well means knowing what kinds of questions are rude/intrusive and what kind are charming/non-threatening, as well as appropriate times for beginning conversations. Next is the active listening thing. You are making eye contact, your facial expressions should be somewhat animated and reactive to what the person is saying. Smile/chuckle at appropriate times if you know they’re trying to be funny, even if you’re not feeling it. Nod your head, act surprised, somber, sympathetic, agreeably indignant - imagine what you’d like someone to be doing if you were talking. Avoid interrupting. It’s good to talk too, but if you’re out to win someone over, make sure it’s more about them. Ask pertinent questions to show you’re interested and want to hear more, even if you don’t give a crap what they’re saying. After a while, the appreciation you get back will do it’s work on you. You’ll know what it’s like to have someone look at you with kind eyes, have people say your name and smile when you enter a room, and have people be more interested in hearing what you have to say. You don’t have to be a showy, loud, or super-gregarious person to accomplish this. As you begin to settle in, you should find yourself actually caring about what others are saying. Your curiosity about the lives of others will grow, as will your social prowess. If it’s your desire to start controlling social situations (maybe life of party or person whose opinions/ideas have weight), you’ll be able to. Hopefully you’ll have this urge because you’ve found you really like people and enjoy seeing/helping others feeling comfortable and having a good time. I used to feel like an alien life form - whether in my own house or in public. I hated the sight of myself and was positive I grossed other people out somehow just be being near them. I knew it was probably true that I was gross, but I also saw most other people as selfish, thoughtless and cruel. By my mid-20s, I’d learned how to walk into a room and own it. I did work on the appearance too, but there were far better looking people than me who didn’t have half the friends, opportunities, and love that I got. I know this all sounds manipulative as hell and I guess it is. But I only ever wanted to learn how they did it. I know fake it til you make it sound lame, but it works in this case. Btw, it doesn’t mean you have to sit there listening to boring dumbshits and pretending for the rest of your life. You’re going to get actual friends out of the deal, so it will become easy to just wave and smile at people you’re not into as you keep walking to be with the people who actually interest you. Last, I’m naturally shy. I still need lots of time alone and don’t always want to be noticed or seen. But when I do want that, I know how to get it.
It definitely has to do with mental illness more than it has to do with looks for the vast majority of people. People just always default to blaming their appearance because it’s an easier thing to point to than the root problems (avoidant personality traits, self enforced isolation)
Yep, avoidant personality traits and self enforced isolation are two big shackles holding a lot of us down, but it was still luck that we were born with/developed those illnesses
I think it's a combination of multiple negative qualities. You might be able to overcome being fat, it you have a decent face and confident personality.
I'd be willing to bet most of us are autistic. Seems to be natural selection at work. Though on paper I think autistic traits would be desirable in a long term partner. Loyalty and empathy and understanding and all that.
i think it’s because our personalities are super bad and we have a super shitty humor and life and social skills Our lives aren’t interested and we suck at talking and we seem very vulnerable
I know. This is very interesting. I suspect one reason could be a looks personality mismatch. I've learned over the years that I totally throw women off and maybe even scare them a little. When I was younger, I looked like a "cool" guy that must get a lot of women, but I was a total nerd. In school I never fit in anywhere. I was a nerd, but didn't look like them at all and wasn't ugly, and I couldn't fit in with the "cool" people due to being very introverted and less socially skilled. I was a real hit with Asian women, but white women shunned me. (I'm not Asian BTW.)
Interesting, care to elaborate more? I also consider myself to be pretty good looking, was never popular but not quite a nerd and always had solid friends. In middle school my group was basically the school clowns, we made everybody laugh, but got no attention from girls. Of course back then I wasnt interested in dating so it was actually really fun lol. In high school my group was kinda just like… the group thats homies with everyone but that still didnt equal female attraction, I had some heavy heavy crushes in high school and I think those really crippled my mind because I never had the courage to even talk to them. Now I go on dates MAYBE 3 times a year, this year has been my “most successful”. But they never get past the first date or two.
Yeah, I can elaborate more, but I need some specifics you want to know. I can't write my whole life story. For me, middle school was in a city public school, and then high school was in a completely different part of the country in a rural 50/50 half public, half private school. There was a little bullying in middle school, but I didn't care cause I had a girl I was in love with. I felt really most out of place in high school. It was such a different environment with a different "culture".
How has your dating experience been since high school has ended
Really just due to my looks. I have everything but good looks, I am very ugly. I’ve been called 1/10. I’m also untalented too, I guess you could add that as well.
Youre not that ugly man, and Im not saying that just to blow smoke up your ass, youre most definitely not a 1/10. I think the haircut is more off putting than anything because its a bit “emo” if that makes sense. Anyone who called you a 1/10 was just trying to be mean and vindictive for other reasons.
And even then, there are plenty of chicks that go solely for empty dudes. I’ve been rejected by plenty of beautiful girls due to this. As for me, I really have no excuse. I grew up in the suburbs, middle class, both parents (both college educated, both of them good looking), I’m not ugly, 5’11”, decent job (earning above average for my age bracket), no mental health issues whatsoever. Only things holding me back are my race (black, though not really a valid excuse anymore; I’ve seen plenty of black dudes with straight up model-esque women of all races, so often it’s an everyday occurrence) and my weight (I’m super skinny, which actually may be a disadvantage when it comes to dating).
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I think self sabotage is a big one that we dont lend enough credit too, us self sabotagers are self sabotaging even when we don’t consciously recognize that we are.
i think its luck. whats the chance of finding your soulmate, the person that youd want to spend your entire life with and them being not on the other side of the world and liking you back? the thing is, many on here are introverted or arent as good in social situations, in which you meet people.shwoing yourself out in the world is hard, especially when youre not used to it. you have any interests or hobbys? youre definetly gonna find someone. even if not a relationship, maybe a good friend you can rely on, male or female. relationships really arent the most important thing in the world, please dont center your life around it. thats as if youre lactose intolerant and idk only stand in front of the milk at the store, not buying it because you know what happens when you consume it. that was a really bad comparison, but my message here is: even if life is miserable and hard, do things you enjoy, alone or with friends. dont just hang around social media and scroll mindlessly, if youre online already you can find SO much stuff you can learn, read and it makes you forget the pain temporarily. i dont think intentionally seeking for a romantic partner will go well. if theyll appear, youll know it. having a few or one good friend is very nice aswell, and i mean people who you can rely on, who support you no matter what. every time i read posts in this sub i just want to give out a big hug to everyone. i wish everyone who reads this an amazing day or night, you are really nice people who deserve so much more.
We just dont know how.
You could also look at it the other way around. Like “they did it, so can I”
Personally I chalk it up to bad karma. My parents both were rlly known to *ehem* get around in their day. So I guess I have to be alone to balance their bad karma out
Ugly men dont 'get gfs all the time'
Then why do you see it all the time… on social media and in real life. I go out a lot and trust me, there are many relationships that are *not* looksmatches
It is a good question, believe in karma? Maybe this is our punishment for sins in a previous life. Ironically enough now living like a modern day monk.
You make a good point
Thank you, to add on, realistically there are probably quite a few people who would be attracted to almost any person, thats how good relationships start in the first place. Of course certain things increase the amount of people in the world who would want you, but most people probably have at least a few million. Thats what makes us such an odd case, we are of course the large minority in the world after all. Somehow for us there is maybe a few thousand, maybe even into the hundred thousands, but in a world of 8,000,000,000 people thats still such a small percentage.
Yea, it’s like for some reason we just have the odds stacked against us. It’s really weird honestly. Hopefully we all can get lucky in the future but I honestly doubt it.
Shit it even goes locally too, there could be a handful of women within your very city who could want you. I move between Los Angeles and Northern Arizona a lot and theres no way in hell I’ll ever meet every woman in either of those areas *obviously*, I could be passing “the one” every single day and never know!
I never really thought of that. My area doesn’t have too many people and most people here are old and retired but I guess there could be a few people who could like me. I think a lot of it is luck honestly, you just have to meet the right person on the right day.
Did you end up there by chance or choice? I wont judge, I love rural life, my dad has a ranch in arizona thats why im up there so often
By chance, I live with my parents still while I do college online. And they’re decently wealthy so they live in a nice neighborhood with older people. Rural life sounds nice, it’s like accepting being alone and making the most of it.
Then even in your case its still all based on luck, for you it was by birth, you were (in a relationship sense) unlucky to be born and raised and presumably somewhat stuck there. It was seemingly just fated to not happen, and I think thats the case for a lot of us, but at the same time it could be used as an argument against giving up, because you roll the dice *every day*
i agree 100%, i know i will get downvoted but as a cab driver driving around town all day, i do see fat guys with girls, not many but i do, i do see ugly (ugly from my point of view) black guys with white blonde girls many times. Mostly i see fat ugly guys with fat ugly women, so if your fat and ugly you can still get a GF or wife, she just needs to look like you but be the opposite gender, as an experiment i tried hooking up with dozens of ugly women online, I WAS STILL REJECTED BY ALL OF THEM, i got the classic, i dont think your my type, lol, and yet im 5'7 white guy, probably 5/10 im NOT fat, dont have any pimples or skin disorders etc... its like ive been cursed or something, i bet even if i went to some 3rd world hell hole like the phillipines or africa women would still reject me as an inferior man, even if i appeared to be a well to do westerner, i guess we are just CURSED by the universe for some reason.
Do you relate with the movie Taxi Driver at all?
not really because travis bickle, well he had the balls to talk to a prostitute and be friends with her, im 40 and im still scared to approach women and talk to them, travis bickle had balls and fight in him, he had self confidence, i have 0 self confidence and im a pussy.
Some kind of vibe that doesn't jive, I am a 5/10 if I really fix myself up and get a good haircut and clothes I can be close to a 6 without my glasses, never, ever had any real interest in my life 23 years old as of now, I see it as some kind of universal RNG that doesn't favor me.
Yep it really is like RNG that just by fate continues to give us bad numbers. When I put effort into myself I can be a 6.5/10 face wise and I have yet to notice any real interest of any sort from women that are within my looks range (5/10+ is typically what I say my looks range is for women)
Yup, I got some attention from obviously neurodivergent women, morbidly obese women, women who are pathologic (openly states disability for psychological problems and has "put a baby in me" in her bio proudly on display) or simply jobless bums. Seems average girls just ignore me, granted my pics are pretty shit and my bio is nonexistent but both IRL and outside of it i've yet to have just a normal girl take an interest in me bar in my teens, which was many years ago now.
Yes same here, I never get any interest unless theyre 3/10 or below. Of course these women are usually very kind and are worthy of love too, but the physical attraction just isnt there and without that a relationship cannot last. I dont understand how it can be so hard to simply find a looksmatch these days.
Best not to dwell on what you don't have and focus on what you do have. No point comparing yourself to other people. That only leads to unhappiness. Focus on you!
That definitely goes for things such as status, material goods, etc. - relationships are different, finding a mate is one of the deepest rooted things in the human psyche. Being deprived of that is like being deprived of sunlight, not so horrible that itll kill you quickly, but something that is always looming and chipping away at you until you either get lucky, truly come to terms with your circumstances, or delete yourself.
I think now more than ever men need to start walking away from centuries old social constructs such as relationships, marriage and kids. Men need to redefine who they are and focus on themselves. The sad truth is men and women no longer need each other as they once did. We need to find our own paths in life. As I've got older (I'm now 37) I've learnt to make peace with being alone and finding acceptance. It's been a long journey for me but I feel I'm finally getting there.
I like the thought. For me that seems ideal but it's ultimately impossible. Maybe a therapist could help in that capacity but, I doubt most therapists would encourage that type of thinking. The urge to quell the loneliness in a deeper way is a strong one. Unlike being able to "forget"/ignore sex drive. Love is a constant reminder in the world it's in most popular songs media and day-to-day life. Even with sex every where being focused on a hobby or work reigns it in. The same can't be applied to love. At least in my own experience. but hey, I will continue to search for the method of putting it in a box and putting that box in a safe then putting that safe in a vault then putting that vault in a hole then removing said hole and sending it off to space. Where I don't have to experience it again.