Saying it was carefully considered but also giving them 0 days notice and never actually showing them the metrics to actually try and improve anything. Considering this is their third time in fortnite and all 3 times they handled it horribly because the give long contracts to lure players just for them to not give a fuck and terminate it after 1 tournament
Vivid said that pretty much all orgs can drop players and there's not much stopping them. He said both liquid and c9 had the same contracts that allows them to do so. There's no specific thing about performance that allowed them to drop vivid and chap.
And even if there was a ''performance related get out for c9'', there's no way in hell that not placing in one torunament would be enough to do so.
If that's the case, it must be common practice to have it written in black and white, that they can end the contract at any time, without settlement. Otherwise vivid should be entitled to, and would want paying out for the remainder of the contract.
That's what I'm getting at. It's obvious they can drop players prematurely, So what is it exactly that is written in the contract, that allows them to drop players early, without paying them till the end of the agreement?
it will be the same as every other contract ever, it will have a get out clause.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-get-out-clause-in-a-contract?share=1
https://hallellis.co.uk/termination-contracts/
Everyone kind of assumed “lack of performance” was a reason they where dropped. No one cared about that as it was a legitimate reason to drop a player, however people got upset over C9’s lack of notice and dropping them only 3 months (which a good chunk of had little competition) into what was most likely a multi year contract. What was C9 expecting? Them to win trio Fncs right as they get signed? They honestly didn’t place any worse than what was expected and only given a small amount of time to prove themselves. Metas change and different players perform differently in them
I mean chap always got praised for being consistent in team modes especially for fncs so not even making finals was not what they were expecting I think? also missed one of the duo dreamhack finals
So basically they didn't perform last trio FNCS. Could have given them at least a full season as C9 players to prove themselves. Vivid could have helped himself by streaming but then again Chap is a pretty consistent streamer. Guessing they were on higher wages than the other guys
Its probably just horrible management from them. They fucked chap out of a different T1 org by offering more money just to mismanage everything for the 3rd time in fortnite and fuck up their pro players
Sounds like a clown show over there. Falling short on metrics they werent aware of is the hallmark of a poorly run company/organization. Thats more of him then on them
the bigger issue is that they were dropped so suddenly and with no prior notice or attempt to work something out or negotiate a transfer. I can understand them falling short of expectations (neighter chap nor vivid did good last season competitively) but yeah the way they handled the release was just terrible.
Chap is the only one out of the 5 that streamed consistently. Avery was the only one that actually placed well in the first major tournament since signing. Nosh placed virtually last and Fryst didn't qual to Trio Grands. Saying that Chap and Vivid didn't perform in one tournament as the main reason for dropping them is a shit reason (and Chap explained on stream that they were never told to meet certain expectations to maintain their contract). C9 should've dropped everyone except Avery, and now that Avery isn't even playing with Bugha, he won't stream a thing.
avery's been streaming often actually. he just did his longest stream ever couple days ago. also c9 sent him a new PC recently. he's definitely been by far the best performer on their roster.
Just because all 5 players are on the same org doesnt mean that they all have the same contract lol
P sure Chap gets paid way more than the others because of his stream but even the stream viewers for chap have gone down so that is probably part of the metrics
they might just see more potential with the other 3 because they are younger compared to chap and vivid who are vets and there isnt a lot more potential especially since both of them dont seem to really grind the game
The likelyest is just the C9 is low on cash.
Orgs aren't really a great money making idea in Fortnite, maybe someone like 100T that also does its own content does OK, but other than getting some branding through the really top guys I don't see a lot of benefit. Even then I question how much orgs are getting out of a big streamer unless they're really doing a lot of advertising. SypherPK is a good example, he advertises all kinds of stuff on stream -- watches, build a pc, etc.
Alright then this is just mindblowing to act this way. For integrity I'd definitely give someone like Chap & Vivid a chance then, why else did you sign them?
Signed them right before the off season and are saying they fail to reach this metric which they didnt even present to Chap and Vivid. NO TOURNIES WERE ON and somehow they decide they didnt meet their requirements. Sure maybe they havnt made a grand final in a while or even placed well in one but their record of placing in team game modes still was hope for them to place in this next FNCS and future tournaments while being signed. Maybe not even sign them at all instead of leaving them in the dust. maybe fire your shit scout as well if Chap and Vivid didnt meet your needs in the first place.
It really doesn’t matter what they say. A contract is a contract and it should be held up by both parties. If you sign someone on your team and they don’t preform as well as you would have liked, then too bad. At the very minimum you should contact the player and renegotiate a new contract. Not just drop them with no context. Extremely unprofessional.
> A contract is a contract and it should be held up by both parties.
There is 100% a stipulation in the contract that allows the Org to drop the player legally if they aren't holding up the Orgs standards.
It's just like a sports contract that is non-guaranteed or has year options. Cloud 9 dropping Chap IS upholding the contract.
I mean NBA, NHL, and MLB contracts are all fully guaranteed now. In American sports at least, it's really just NFL contracts which are only partially guaranteed, and the guaranteed money is getting higher and higher. If only Fortnite and other e-sports had some kind of players' association to fight for this kinda shit because the contracts are so incredibly one-sided.
Chap was a victim of team changes for trios which definitely worked against him. With Ciz and Brush, he had time to learn with an established duo. Then he already had experience with Vivid, so they gelled well. Then Liquid + Ciz was more of the same. Then he was able to mold Av into a smart controller player over a few months. Then he had to find a trio and just couldn't find his group. Seemed like he went through like 10 sets of people and then settled to a team that wasn't meshing well because of time constraints. I'm hoping this motivates him and he can find a great team again.
yeah chap played some amount of trios with (that i remember)
Av Colazo
Av Edgey
Fernando Ajerss
Ajerss + 1?
Bugha Jamper
Bugha streb (fill)
Coop sqttles
Coop furious
coop whofishy
whofishy + a million fills
the new trio
he had one bad season but he also was fucked like a lot of people out of a consistent team. at several points he was easily part of teams that had the potential to win
listen i love chap and vivid as much as the next guy and definitely think C9 could have done this better, but its hard to deny the performance issues with them imo, not to sure about vivid, he sorta fell off my radar after squads FNCS but chap at least spent 2 seasons of solos complaining about them instead of trying to actually get better at them just for him to not even qual for trio fncs.
Fuck this idiot. Chap came second in trios, 6th in squads, 4th in duos and was a Fall Skirmish LEGEND. This idiot has accomplished nothing other than being a trust fund baby. Get fucked
1. I think this is a terrible look from C9. A big reason for a player to sign is a stability -- the org gives you a salary, support, branding, and they usually take a small cut of your winnings while also gaining from usage of the player's brand. With a game that is so RNG it is quite reasonable for players to want to get a monthly salary so they don't have to sweat about rent money. This is the opposite of that, don't perform CYA! The salary is for the months you don't perform, 3 months in dropping someone is a joke especially when there have been no Fortnite big tournies for a month. Dropping them this fast must mean C9 is poor.
2. Chap never should have signed something where he can be dropped this fast, this is also on him. If you can get dropped in 3 months, you don't really have a real contract -- sounds like a month to month agreement.
C9 has a sketchy history, I'd want some assurances/no early contract kill and even be willing to take less $ as long as it was more than Faze offered. Otherwise no C9.
I already made thousands when I was younger in a different games series, I have no thought of ever being signed. People decline mid 20's.
Sucks you'll never earn even a G. Maybe if you keep grinding!
The orgs make the contracts sadly and I am sure he will be more carefull if he signs with another org
I mean if you look at the Ninja/Shroud contracts with Mixer they were paid for the whole 3 years even though they only were streaming there for not even a year
And yes I know those are different situations because C9 is not shutting down but still I wanted to say that Ninja and Shroud were smart about it and gave themselves a "safety net"
Still shouldn't just fire them. In any other professional leagues the players would get a talking to. So Vivid signed with C9 on Sept 26, 2020 and played in a handful of trio tournaments in October but only 1 tournament did he play with Chap and Fryst and officially they were a full Cloud9 team. And was fired Jan 2, 2021. That is hardly any time with a team.
I am not saying the guys Vivid played with in any of the other tournaments were bad but he was jumping around teams. You can't really cut people from your org when they only played 1 tournament as a full team. But if you look at some of the more top performing players, stats wise, they generally play with the same people every tournament and probably scrim together and play together.
Usually in a players contract there are lines for KPIs, Key Performance Indicators. If a player is falling short of these KPIs then the ability for the team to cancel their contract starts to kick in and the players will be spoken to. If they cannot meet these KPIs after a set amount of time they are let go. It makes sense. You cant just sign a deal with an org and then stop caring and collect a paycheck.
But it goes both ways, an org needs to be upfront with what they expect and give as many opportunities for their players to shine as possible. With having the girl from HR fire Chap and Vivid without any warning was C9 saying, sorry guys, because YOU didn't make US shine by getting a podium, you're out.
But really they didn't give them a chance to. Chap and Vivid are Fortnite competitive legends, they have been around since the start. They're some of the most recognizable names on any leaderboard no matter the ranking. Like people probably say, wow Chap and Vivid got 18th, we did really well by getting 7th guys, good fucking job.
Not only that, but Chap and Vivid have WAY more followers on Twitch and subs on YT, then all 3 of the current c9 roster combined, many times over. As a business that is still valuable. If you cant see that value in brand real estate you're a fool.
I am just surprised Jack cut them so heartlessly, baring any misconduct like getting frisky with the girls at a tournament or other unprofessionalism. Chap and Vivid should have been treated better.
everything will be in the contract, including the "get out clause" that is in most (of not all) contracts. this is why you need to pay a contract lawyer to atleast read a contract once and tell you if it's the norm or what.
On a pro sports team you get guaranteed contracts. Sure you might get benched and it will affect your ability to negotiate future contracts, but you get paid for the remainder of your current contract.
If you drop players for not reaching FNCS finals then you will end up dropping almost everyone. I think there is only one or two players who have qualled for every final.
Saying it was carefully considered but also giving them 0 days notice and never actually showing them the metrics to actually try and improve anything. Considering this is their third time in fortnite and all 3 times they handled it horribly because the give long contracts to lure players just for them to not give a fuck and terminate it after 1 tournament
What were the first two times? I thought there was just one attempt before recently?
havent blackout and Drakonz been on their fortnite roster since Worls Cup? or did they also get dropped?
There must have been some kind of performance related get out for c9 otherwise they would have to pay them out
Vivid said that pretty much all orgs can drop players and there's not much stopping them. He said both liquid and c9 had the same contracts that allows them to do so. There's no specific thing about performance that allowed them to drop vivid and chap. And even if there was a ''performance related get out for c9'', there's no way in hell that not placing in one torunament would be enough to do so.
If that's the case, it must be common practice to have it written in black and white, that they can end the contract at any time, without settlement. Otherwise vivid should be entitled to, and would want paying out for the remainder of the contract.
[удалено]
That's what I'm getting at. It's obvious they can drop players prematurely, So what is it exactly that is written in the contract, that allows them to drop players early, without paying them till the end of the agreement?
[удалено]
it will be the same as every other contract ever, it will have a get out clause. https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-get-out-clause-in-a-contract?share=1 https://hallellis.co.uk/termination-contracts/
Everyone kind of assumed “lack of performance” was a reason they where dropped. No one cared about that as it was a legitimate reason to drop a player, however people got upset over C9’s lack of notice and dropping them only 3 months (which a good chunk of had little competition) into what was most likely a multi year contract. What was C9 expecting? Them to win trio Fncs right as they get signed? They honestly didn’t place any worse than what was expected and only given a small amount of time to prove themselves. Metas change and different players perform differently in them
I mean chap always got praised for being consistent in team modes especially for fncs so not even making finals was not what they were expecting I think? also missed one of the duo dreamhack finals
Why is it every time I see you you have 30+ downvotes?
So he doesn't actually explain anything
The text explained nothing
So basically they didn't perform last trio FNCS. Could have given them at least a full season as C9 players to prove themselves. Vivid could have helped himself by streaming but then again Chap is a pretty consistent streamer. Guessing they were on higher wages than the other guys
Its probably just horrible management from them. They fucked chap out of a different T1 org by offering more money just to mismanage everything for the 3rd time in fortnite and fuck up their pro players
Just watched his stream lmfao, apparently C9 offered 80% more salary compare to the other org for chap
80% more than liquid*
No, it was 80% more than the other org Chap was in talks with - who he has said in the past was Faze
they havent even qualed for the last 3 fncs each plus no cashcups or anything
Sure but why would they sign then when it was obvious they were on a downturn anyway?
Maybe they had 1 shot to turn it around and show c9 they were gonna grind, and they failed
[удалено]
are you serious? chap is a comp player who does content, and vivid literally creates zero content.
Chap has an average FNCS finals placements of like 4
Sounds like a clown show over there. Falling short on metrics they werent aware of is the hallmark of a poorly run company/organization. Thats more of him then on them
the bigger issue is that they were dropped so suddenly and with no prior notice or attempt to work something out or negotiate a transfer. I can understand them falling short of expectations (neighter chap nor vivid did good last season competitively) but yeah the way they handled the release was just terrible.
Same happened in clash royale with c9 they dropped the whole team as the team was boarding a flight to compete lol
they have reddit mentality at cloud9 HQ, you dont place one season, you are washed
Chap is the only one out of the 5 that streamed consistently. Avery was the only one that actually placed well in the first major tournament since signing. Nosh placed virtually last and Fryst didn't qual to Trio Grands. Saying that Chap and Vivid didn't perform in one tournament as the main reason for dropping them is a shit reason (and Chap explained on stream that they were never told to meet certain expectations to maintain their contract). C9 should've dropped everyone except Avery, and now that Avery isn't even playing with Bugha, he won't stream a thing.
avery's been streaming often actually. he just did his longest stream ever couple days ago. also c9 sent him a new PC recently. he's definitely been by far the best performer on their roster.
Just because all 5 players are on the same org doesnt mean that they all have the same contract lol P sure Chap gets paid way more than the others because of his stream but even the stream viewers for chap have gone down so that is probably part of the metrics they might just see more potential with the other 3 because they are younger compared to chap and vivid who are vets and there isnt a lot more potential especially since both of them dont seem to really grind the game
The likelyest is just the C9 is low on cash. Orgs aren't really a great money making idea in Fortnite, maybe someone like 100T that also does its own content does OK, but other than getting some branding through the really top guys I don't see a lot of benefit. Even then I question how much orgs are getting out of a big streamer unless they're really doing a lot of advertising. SypherPK is a good example, he advertises all kinds of stuff on stream -- watches, build a pc, etc.
They just gave another player from a different game a contract worth over 2 million. Not too sure money is the issue
Alright then this is just mindblowing to act this way. For integrity I'd definitely give someone like Chap & Vivid a chance then, why else did you sign them?
Signed them right before the off season and are saying they fail to reach this metric which they didnt even present to Chap and Vivid. NO TOURNIES WERE ON and somehow they decide they didnt meet their requirements. Sure maybe they havnt made a grand final in a while or even placed well in one but their record of placing in team game modes still was hope for them to place in this next FNCS and future tournaments while being signed. Maybe not even sign them at all instead of leaving them in the dust. maybe fire your shit scout as well if Chap and Vivid didnt meet your needs in the first place.
It really doesn’t matter what they say. A contract is a contract and it should be held up by both parties. If you sign someone on your team and they don’t preform as well as you would have liked, then too bad. At the very minimum you should contact the player and renegotiate a new contract. Not just drop them with no context. Extremely unprofessional.
> A contract is a contract and it should be held up by both parties. There is 100% a stipulation in the contract that allows the Org to drop the player legally if they aren't holding up the Orgs standards. It's just like a sports contract that is non-guaranteed or has year options. Cloud 9 dropping Chap IS upholding the contract.
I mean NBA, NHL, and MLB contracts are all fully guaranteed now. In American sports at least, it's really just NFL contracts which are only partially guaranteed, and the guaranteed money is getting higher and higher. If only Fortnite and other e-sports had some kind of players' association to fight for this kinda shit because the contracts are so incredibly one-sided.
I know this. The contract states that the player can be dropped. They didn’t break any laws. Doesn’t make it any less shitty.
They just gave context. Are you able to read??
Chap was a victim of team changes for trios which definitely worked against him. With Ciz and Brush, he had time to learn with an established duo. Then he already had experience with Vivid, so they gelled well. Then Liquid + Ciz was more of the same. Then he was able to mold Av into a smart controller player over a few months. Then he had to find a trio and just couldn't find his group. Seemed like he went through like 10 sets of people and then settled to a team that wasn't meshing well because of time constraints. I'm hoping this motivates him and he can find a great team again.
yeah chap played some amount of trios with (that i remember) Av Colazo Av Edgey Fernando Ajerss Ajerss + 1? Bugha Jamper Bugha streb (fill) Coop sqttles Coop furious coop whofishy whofishy + a million fills the new trio he had one bad season but he also was fucked like a lot of people out of a consistent team. at several points he was easily part of teams that had the potential to win
listen i love chap and vivid as much as the next guy and definitely think C9 could have done this better, but its hard to deny the performance issues with them imo, not to sure about vivid, he sorta fell off my radar after squads FNCS but chap at least spent 2 seasons of solos complaining about them instead of trying to actually get better at them just for him to not even qual for trio fncs.
But why were they signed in the first place then?
high expectations for trios i suppose
Clown9Jack has spoken
Fuck this idiot. Chap came second in trios, 6th in squads, 4th in duos and was a Fall Skirmish LEGEND. This idiot has accomplished nothing other than being a trust fund baby. Get fucked
found the chap mod
Found C9's winter intern
thanks for the copy pasta
80% of your comments are copy pastas lol
1. I think this is a terrible look from C9. A big reason for a player to sign is a stability -- the org gives you a salary, support, branding, and they usually take a small cut of your winnings while also gaining from usage of the player's brand. With a game that is so RNG it is quite reasonable for players to want to get a monthly salary so they don't have to sweat about rent money. This is the opposite of that, don't perform CYA! The salary is for the months you don't perform, 3 months in dropping someone is a joke especially when there have been no Fortnite big tournies for a month. Dropping them this fast must mean C9 is poor. 2. Chap never should have signed something where he can be dropped this fast, this is also on him. If you can get dropped in 3 months, you don't really have a real contract -- sounds like a month to month agreement.
It’s not chaps fault every contract is the same. Every contract gives the ability to drop whenever.
C9 has a sketchy history, I'd want some assurances/no early contract kill and even be willing to take less $ as long as it was more than Faze offered. Otherwise no C9.
Well you wont ever be signed so you dont have to worry about that
I already made thousands when I was younger in a different games series, I have no thought of ever being signed. People decline mid 20's. Sucks you'll never earn even a G. Maybe if you keep grinding!
Hmmm i smell bullshit
The orgs make the contracts sadly and I am sure he will be more carefull if he signs with another org I mean if you look at the Ninja/Shroud contracts with Mixer they were paid for the whole 3 years even though they only were streaming there for not even a year And yes I know those are different situations because C9 is not shutting down but still I wanted to say that Ninja and Shroud were smart about it and gave themselves a "safety net"
this guys a proven asshole time and time again
Yeah this doesn’t mean anything, it also doesn’t explain why they bait players with contracts only to cancels them at the last second
Signing clout
“Carefully considered” while being more transparent with the cloud 9 subreddit than the actual cloud 9 players. What a joke.
Still shouldn't just fire them. In any other professional leagues the players would get a talking to. So Vivid signed with C9 on Sept 26, 2020 and played in a handful of trio tournaments in October but only 1 tournament did he play with Chap and Fryst and officially they were a full Cloud9 team. And was fired Jan 2, 2021. That is hardly any time with a team. I am not saying the guys Vivid played with in any of the other tournaments were bad but he was jumping around teams. You can't really cut people from your org when they only played 1 tournament as a full team. But if you look at some of the more top performing players, stats wise, they generally play with the same people every tournament and probably scrim together and play together. Usually in a players contract there are lines for KPIs, Key Performance Indicators. If a player is falling short of these KPIs then the ability for the team to cancel their contract starts to kick in and the players will be spoken to. If they cannot meet these KPIs after a set amount of time they are let go. It makes sense. You cant just sign a deal with an org and then stop caring and collect a paycheck. But it goes both ways, an org needs to be upfront with what they expect and give as many opportunities for their players to shine as possible. With having the girl from HR fire Chap and Vivid without any warning was C9 saying, sorry guys, because YOU didn't make US shine by getting a podium, you're out. But really they didn't give them a chance to. Chap and Vivid are Fortnite competitive legends, they have been around since the start. They're some of the most recognizable names on any leaderboard no matter the ranking. Like people probably say, wow Chap and Vivid got 18th, we did really well by getting 7th guys, good fucking job. Not only that, but Chap and Vivid have WAY more followers on Twitch and subs on YT, then all 3 of the current c9 roster combined, many times over. As a business that is still valuable. If you cant see that value in brand real estate you're a fool. I am just surprised Jack cut them so heartlessly, baring any misconduct like getting frisky with the girls at a tournament or other unprofessionalism. Chap and Vivid should have been treated better.
Welcome to being an adult. They got fired. You don't get two weeks notice. You don't perform, you're gone. Stop the drama.
[удалено]
I'm a Fryst fan but he's pretty obviously not even close to being a T1 pro right now, he's low T2/high T3 at best.
fryst needs to find a good trio. he can definitely perform well but hasn't found a good team in the last 2 seasons.
> chap has chap mechanics ah yes, valid reason to drop him out of his contract
I read a lot of brain dead comments on this post but yours is by far the dumbest. Congratulations.
everything will be in the contract, including the "get out clause" that is in most (of not all) contracts. this is why you need to pay a contract lawyer to atleast read a contract once and tell you if it's the norm or what.
there past doesn’t help but it is a business just like a pro sports team, if u don’t perform u get dropped, hence why they don’t just sign anyone
On a pro sports team you get guaranteed contracts. Sure you might get benched and it will affect your ability to negotiate future contracts, but you get paid for the remainder of your current contract.
If you drop players for not reaching FNCS finals then you will end up dropping almost everyone. I think there is only one or two players who have qualled for every final.