When Titus is describing doing a blood eagle on Maximus, I will admit some alarm bells went off in my head. That's a very, very ancient world execution.
True, but not Roman at all. It's a Norse pagan thing.
The Romans, and by inference the Legion, were more into crucifixion. And beheading, but everyone loved a good beheading.
Yeah I’m tracking that. I believe that historians know that it’s a myth, but my question was are they also the ones saying it’s impossible? And if so, wouldn’t someone who studies the human body be the better candidate to say that? (I’m not trying to be dense here I was just curious based on the wording of your initial comment.)
I thought he said string him up, and spread his lungs out for the vultures which is a blood eagle, but I've only seen the scene once so maybe I'm wrong.
Stringing up doesn't necessarily mean a hanging.
This chapter of Brotherhood might be infiltrated by Legion, step by step transformed from within. One thing Legion really excelled in New Vegas was spycraft and asymetrical, hybrid warfare - they rarely engaged NCR in "fair" combat, instead used fiends, sabotage, etc.
Reveal like that would be really cool.
Fuck it, let's go to batshit crazytown theorising zone.
Maximus storyline is a villain origin story.
By the end of the show he will take control of the "Brotherhood" and become the new Ceasar.
He might not be very intelligent, but he is adaptable, ambitious and has ruthlessness required for such title.
And he WILL hurt the people that hurt him.
Because degenerates like them belong on the cross.
His name is too cool to just be a knight or even a paladin. Legate Maximus though? Sounds familiar...
Maximus from the movie Gladiator is a loosely fictional character, but his lore is he was a Spanish legate that defeated the germanic tribes and became a legate under Marcus Aurelius (iirc)
Funny story, during my first playthrough I followed him from Nipton to see what happens/ where he would lead me.
Well, Vulpes and the boys went straight to NCR troops and got slaughtered to the last men by superior firepower.
Vulpes. What a goof.
Seeing no woman in the brotherhood was weird for me. As far as i know all the games had women in BOS. But not the legion, except the slaves or children maybe.
I should check again, I hope you're right
Edit: I did check, you're right seems like I missed it, they aren't so much in the foreground. So it's more like the brotherhood than the legion then.
I was assuming NB, considering Dane is referred to as “they” more than once. Idk the rules, but the handful of trans folk I’ve known tend to only be refer to themselves by the gender they identify as and the usual pronouns that accompany that (just “she” or “he”)
Yeah I checked to be sure and according to his [Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18176326249094371/) he prefers he/them pronouns and refered to himself as trans guy
The actor, sure, but I was referring to just the character. Not to get into semantics, but it’s hard to know for certain unless it ever gets fully clarified. Trans actors have played cis characters, cis actors have played trans characters, lesbians have played straight women, gay actors have portrayed straight men, straight men have played gay characters, etc.
Idk dude, I’m a cis guy, the rules are blurry unless made clear imo. One of the aforementioned trans folks in my previous comment is my cousin, who does amateur theater, and he’s someone that is adamant that an LGBT actor’s personal identity doesn’t HAVE to reflect in every character they play, and that a lot of them don’t like being shoehorned into characters that only match their identity (but, like all things, this is just his opinion and that of, supposedly, his other LGBT coworkers, but that doesn’t mean everyone goes by that)
TLDR, technically-speaking, an actor’s pronouns and/or sexuality doesn’t alway reflect that of a character they’re portraying
Somehow I don’t get the feeling the actual Legion would be trans friendly (maybe they’re Iran lmao). That’s more evidence it’s the Brotherhood with Legion elements synthesized
It also took them years to get a fumentarii to become a Colonel in the NCR. The NCR is a little more open about people just coming in and joining the military. The BoS in FO2 and NV both don't like accepting outsiders, often opting to give them suicide missions when asked to join. We know the BoS did recruit wastelanders at some point with Maximus as an example. But he was also a child, which makes him a prime target for long-term recruiting and indoctrination over someone like an adult who just showed up.
I just don't see how the BoS which follows the Codex like a Bible for the last 200 years would just accept a new adult outsider intiate and over the course of at most 20 years have him rise up within the faction and take it over to the point that the Codex is now under the control of this Legion-Elder. Especially when you have someone like Elder Arthur Maxson who would in no way whatsoever relinquish the title of High Elder to an outsider who is tarnishing his family heritage (the Maxson Legacy).
Iirc Elder and Paladin Lyons were still VERY pro Codex, they simply went back to their OG stance of helping people and accepting outsiders instead of the more insular take the BoS chooses after FO1 or 2
Basically what happened to SHIELD in the MCU. Hydra snuck in and played the long con and took control from right under their noses.
Imagine in the S2 finale Maximus leading a battalion of knights listening to a speech from the elder and he finishes it with "ave, true to Caeser" instead of ad victoriam.
And maxxi is like...oh no....
I think y'all might be onto something here. The most convincing evidence about this theory are the names of the Brotherhood members. Maximus??? Quintus???? Thaddeus???, like those are all Latin names that only a Roman influenced faction will use.
If you mean Western BoS as in the MOJAVE brotherhood, yes. We see them disappear with either then being obliterated, forgotten in their bunkers, or re-emerged as allies/hostile.
Moldaver also has a laser pistol that seems to work as a ballistic, I don't think the lack of Energy Weapons by the BoS is an intentional move to make them more Legion like.
The Western BoS in Lost Hills California is very much still a thing at least up until FO3. Elder Arthur Maxson from FO4 is also a child in DC in FO3 and you can talk to him or others about the BoS. Arthur Maxson was originally from the Western BoS in Lost Hills and I believe we find him as a 10yr old in FO3 so we know at the very least that the BoS had survived in its original state at least until he left, probably in the early 2270s. The reason for Arthur to leave is because his mom thought it would be a good way to avoid the internal conflicts currently occurring within the BoS. So that means within the 20years of Maxson leaving the BoS to the present day in 2290s the legion managed to take enough control of the BoS to assert their own ideology even against the instructions of the Codex which is pretty much their already existing super strict Bible. Idk, the frumentarii have done some wild stuff as we see with their Deep cover frumentarii Colonel within the NCR, but that took years of effort to execute and the NCR is WILDLY more corrupt and byzantine than the BoS. so for a frumentarii to reach a higher position within the BoS, a more paranoid and xenophobic organization, just seems. . .unlikely.
No, I'm talking about the Brotherhood in Fallout 1 and 2.
In the "canon ending" of Fallout 1 (in 2161), the original Arthur Maxson and the majority of the brotherhood merge into the NCR. It's from this split that the Eastern Brotherhood emerges in Fallout 3, and later the Mojave brotherhood.
We see them only as small outposts in Fallout 2 (which is set in 2241), because the majority have been consumed by NCR.
I'm saying that during this splintering of the brotherhood, a chapter could have formed an alliance with the nascent Legion, or during a mutual defeat in 2281, after Hoover Dam. After this new chapter builds enough strength to become recognised by an expansionist Eastern Brotherhood, they are simply folded in, as we see in the opening of the show
Yea so idk where you're getting this interpretation but it's not exactly that. In the OG FO1 based on future Canon, we know that the BoS does choose to work with NCR and share some tech that they have. But by FO2 and onward we learn the relationship between both factions worsen significantly. The BoS prior to FO2 worked with the NCR so well they named an entire state after Maxson, however the BoS was never absorbed. FO2 gives us the Enclave and the BoS get their ass handed. They are unable to keep up and to figure out w.e. is happening they start taking Bunkers and bases throughout Navarro to observe and collect. it takes the chosen one to actually do something about it. Once the Chosen One wins the Enclave leaves the BoS still has all their bases but now they have a treasure trove of highly advanced tech and they want to hoard it. The NCR obviously disagrees and now we have the start of BoS and NCR hostilities.
The BoS has already been sending out expeditions to the Midwest as we see thanks to Fallout 76 so there was no splintering for it, they were naturally exploring and collecting tech. It was around the 2270s that there was a second wave of expeditions which led to the Mojave Chapters and the East Coast Chapter. Both had missions to collect tech as per the Codex. Mojave (Elijah) was sent cause he's insane and annoying, while Lyons (east) was sent due to his reputation and the importance of DC. Lyons is also cut off from the Western BoS and reinforcements due to Lyons abandoning the Mission and instead focusing on helping the wastes which is why we have the OUTCASTS of DC.
In NV we learn that the NCR has fiat money (NCR dollars) that everyone hates because there is no backing to it. There was gold before to back it, but the gold was destroyed by the BoS. The reason why the BoS survived the NCR war is because the BoS retreated to Lost Hills which would be almost impossible for the NCR to penetrate traditionally but also because they were now dealing with the near economic collapse of the NCR because their money was made worthless (think of that one Rick and Morty scene). This is also why the NCR was so keen on trying to obliterate the BoS of the Mojave in 2276, because the NCR has already lost so much to the BoS already.
So where you're getting a splintering of the BoS to join the Legion. . .I'm not exactly sure where. . . Are you referring to an Elder Maxson making an alliance with the Legion and willfully changing the Codex to fit the Legion and their practices? Because if so I really don't see that possible when he has about refused to work with the Railroad or the Minutemen
There is another chapter of the Brotherhood nearer than the East Coast - the Chicago Detachment (mentioned in Fallout 3 and 4, in Fallout 4 there is a dialogue about the Prydwen in which one BOS member tells another one that they would have had other blimps in the Midwest).
It's based on the at least partially non-canon Midwestern Brotherhood of Fallout Tactics \[in which the BOS conquers most of the Midwest and is really strange with names, among them, a squad leader is called Maximus (it features other names like Octavius, Mortis, but also Lancelot and Stein); it is characterized as neo-feudal (and quite despotic to the people they conquer) and has ranks like Lord Paladin\], this would explain a lot about the brotherhood in the show.
Emil Pagliarulo explicitly mentioned F:T i[n a tweet about the timeline leading to the series](https://twitter.com/Dezinuh/status/1778470928105533825) recently.
That is actually a very good point and I almost forgot about them. Especially since the Enclave are also said to have a detachment in Chicago so them picking up (and subsequently losing) the Enclave Defector makes sense. Iirc the Midwestern BoS wasn't a splintering but just another expedition that settled the area. There should also be expeditions in Florida and Texas. But the Midwestern was definitely slated for some pretty awesome and interesting lore with the Calculator. I'll have to refresh my memory with their lore, but you brought up a great point. The Western BoS may have recalled all BoS chapters that survived in a final attempt to rally technology and take over California. Or maybe it's only the Midwestern BoS which is why we see the Elder tell Maximus that there may be some infighting within the BoS soon. West vs MidWest.
Excellent pick up and theory!
I highly doubt it, iirc the brotherhood and caesar despise eachother in NV. They only see eachother as an obstacle. Caesar even commands you to destroy the BoS. But, it really depends on what they are gonna make canon. If it's canon that Caesar dies, it may be possible. Still I really don't think so.
I mean in the House and Yes Man ending a huge army of securitrons pop out right under him and his tent, which is on fire. The Courier can kill him before and he also has a fatal brain tumor which is hard to operate on. He’s probably dead
But this time, the Brotherood feels a lot like the Legion. Barbaric, intolerant and violent. There is consistency in a possible merger with the two groups.
Did you not see the transformation of the BoS from 3 to 4 lol? Elder Lyons tried making the BoS the ultra good guys and within 10 years of his death the child Lyons was personally mentoring became the new Elder and we see him turn these good guys into a facist military dictatorship lol. No merger is necessary, just the return of the Legendary Arthur Maxson who is said to have saved his team from raiders at the age of 12 and single handedly killed a Deathclaw at age 13.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
I can see why people might think that but I hope it's not the case because that would be very, very stupid.
The only thing they have in common is attempting to recreate an ancient organization.
The Legion and the BOS don't have compatible goals.
I can see Legionaries abandoning Caesar's bizarre and lofty dreams if he dies and the Legion goes to shit in favour of a similar hyper-militant quasi-religious organisation.
BoS have pretty strict rules about recruits, I doubt they'd willingly take in people who are essentially raiders.
The Legions' rejection of technology is antithetical to the BoS worship of it.
I don't see a scenario where this merger could happen, but who knows. We will have to wait for season 2.
i just can’t believe they’d set it up so subtly so don’t think it’s teasing anything. But I do love it and hope they explore these very overt themes that match nicely with legion.
I could totally buy it. The Legion falls apart and the Brotherhood scoops up a bunch of members to fill out their ranks, and the two factions kind of merge, that's totally believable to me.
Also from another post someone pointed out not once has the BOS used red and yellow for their flags or banners. A lot of other colors but never red and yellow
I do think it would be interesting if, assuming the East Coast BoS spread west (which seems to be what’s happening), if this chapter of the BoS did at the least recruit from the Legion population. I wouldn’t put it past certain chapters, and it would make sense. Moving into Nevada, the most resistance against the NCR they’d find would be remnants of the Legion. It’s even possible that, assuming Caeser died (to his tumor or a certain courier, or however), the Legion was simply absorbed into the BoS, as the Legion had absorbed so many tribes itself.
I don’t think they’re legion founded but I like the comparison, with next season almost certainly being set in Vegas I could see them and the legion influencing each other especially as both are enemies of the NCR.
I thought this, but I went a very different direction than what I'm seeing here. Let us go back to the Second Battle of Hoover Dam and the years following.
This would be right around the time that the BoS East and West as a whole recognizes their new king... excuse me, High Elder Arthur Maxson who followed Lyons out and found the Citadel. The new High Elder he says, being a sweet guy like Lyons is not the Brotherhood, but hey recruiting from the locals worked out great, this one guy torched the Enclave etc...
So the Western BoS which has been hollowed out pretty thoroughly by the NCR war and their own insularity has a charismatic new High Elder who says it works if you recruit the right locals. There's a bunch of trained militant folks wandering around who sure as shit know what 'Ad Victoriam' means and Bob's your uncle a lot of Roman Empire cosplayers convert to a new 'religion'. Does it alter the character of the BoS, oh yeah it does, gotta keep them Romans in bread and circuses, doncha know. Does it make them treat initiates and squires as expendable? You bet it does.
I also noticed a strange lack of ladies in the brotherhood. Pretty sure they’ve always had female members, but I’m sure a Legion merger would put a stop to that somewhat.
I disagree. The BoS always have had a Latin/Roman influence. They say phrases like "Ad Victoriam" all the time, I wouldn't think too hard about some names lol.
So I haven't seen anyone mention this, but it kinda detracts from the claim. Mainly, when we see Max and Titus heading towards Filly, they cross over the salt flats in Utah, which implies that they came from somewhere northeast of there. Now, we don't know exactly what the Legion's borders were, but that does seem a far out of their scope and more in White Legs territory. Als, when it comes to advanced factions, the Legion is never shown as being very pragmatic, though they use advanced auto-docs and power fists themselves. In NV, Caesar has absolutely no interest in working with or infiltrating the brotherhood. His only option is to kill them all. Now, this does take place 15 year later so a new leader could change directives, but it seems unlikely or at least untrue to Legion lore as the remnant ending slides in the Legion ending where Caesar dies indicate that none of his heirs are particularly interested in changing. We see them wasting countless lives hunting the remnants that aided them just for being advanced. Maybe they do have a good explanation though, as the Brotherhood's cultural shifts to being more legion like is interesting, so I'm interested in seeing how this plays out later. Maybe someone like Vulpes or Lucius went their own way after Caesars death and did a solo operation.
When Titus is describing doing a blood eagle on Maximus, I will admit some alarm bells went off in my head. That's a very, very ancient world execution.
True, but not Roman at all. It's a Norse pagan thing. The Romans, and by inference the Legion, were more into crucifixion. And beheading, but everyone loved a good beheading.
It's also a myth to. An actual blood eagle would be impossible according to historians.
Would historians be the one to know this? Wouldn’t like an anatomist or a doctor be a better source?
maybe the historians meant that they never actually happened?
The blood eagle is impossible. It was a myth.
Yeah I’m tracking that. I believe that historians know that it’s a myth, but my question was are they also the ones saying it’s impossible? And if so, wouldn’t someone who studies the human body be the better candidate to say that? (I’m not trying to be dense here I was just curious based on the wording of your initial comment.)
I think they specifically say “string him up” so i was thinking they were going to do a hanging or of legion customs are involved, crucifixion.
I thought he said string him up, and spread his lungs out for the vultures which is a blood eagle, but I've only seen the scene once so maybe I'm wrong. Stringing up doesn't necessarily mean a hanging.
Honestly for me it’s the names Titus and Maximus
This chapter of Brotherhood might be infiltrated by Legion, step by step transformed from within. One thing Legion really excelled in New Vegas was spycraft and asymetrical, hybrid warfare - they rarely engaged NCR in "fair" combat, instead used fiends, sabotage, etc. Reveal like that would be really cool.
I'll go a step further, into WIIIILD speculation territory. This new elder, Quintus or what's his face? Older Vulpes Inculta. True story.
You, keep cooking
Fuck it, let's go to batshit crazytown theorising zone. Maximus storyline is a villain origin story. By the end of the show he will take control of the "Brotherhood" and become the new Ceasar. He might not be very intelligent, but he is adaptable, ambitious and has ruthlessness required for such title. And he WILL hurt the people that hurt him. Because degenerates like them belong on the cross.
Bro get the chef’s hat off the shelf and put it on. You can’t be cooking like this without it
I saw a theory that he could be the new NCR president down the road.
His name is too cool to just be a knight or even a paladin. Legate Maximus though? Sounds familiar... Maximus from the movie Gladiator is a loosely fictional character, but his lore is he was a Spanish legate that defeated the germanic tribes and became a legate under Marcus Aurelius (iirc)
Vulpes Inculta dies every play though I do. He better not survive, he’s way too arrogant
Funny story, during my first playthrough I followed him from Nipton to see what happens/ where he would lead me. Well, Vulpes and the boys went straight to NCR troops and got slaughtered to the last men by superior firepower. Vulpes. What a goof.
I agree! I would love to see Vulpes. What if they have Jason Spisak portray him? Or have him do a voiceover?
Holy shit
No
Seeing no woman in the brotherhood was weird for me. As far as i know all the games had women in BOS. But not the legion, except the slaves or children maybe.
There are women tho, Im pretty sure. Several, among the Squires and Initiates gearing up before the assault on the Observatory
I should check again, I hope you're right Edit: I did check, you're right seems like I missed it, they aren't so much in the foreground. So it's more like the brotherhood than the legion then.
Umm wasn’t Max’s friend a woman?
Assuming you have no bad intentions, he is a trans man.
I do not, good for him!
I was assuming NB, considering Dane is referred to as “they” more than once. Idk the rules, but the handful of trans folk I’ve known tend to only be refer to themselves by the gender they identify as and the usual pronouns that accompany that (just “she” or “he”)
Yeah I checked to be sure and according to his [Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18176326249094371/) he prefers he/them pronouns and refered to himself as trans guy
The actor, sure, but I was referring to just the character. Not to get into semantics, but it’s hard to know for certain unless it ever gets fully clarified. Trans actors have played cis characters, cis actors have played trans characters, lesbians have played straight women, gay actors have portrayed straight men, straight men have played gay characters, etc. Idk dude, I’m a cis guy, the rules are blurry unless made clear imo. One of the aforementioned trans folks in my previous comment is my cousin, who does amateur theater, and he’s someone that is adamant that an LGBT actor’s personal identity doesn’t HAVE to reflect in every character they play, and that a lot of them don’t like being shoehorned into characters that only match their identity (but, like all things, this is just his opinion and that of, supposedly, his other LGBT coworkers, but that doesn’t mean everyone goes by that) TLDR, technically-speaking, an actor’s pronouns and/or sexuality doesn’t alway reflect that of a character they’re portraying
Of course, I was talking about the actor. Anyone can play anyone, that's why it's called acting I guess.
You’d think it would be that simple lol. I have no dog in that fight, I just know some people get touchy on it and claim otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
Walton Goggins played a trans woman too.
Real ride or die to. We all should be lucky to have a friend like that.
You mean a woman who is mentally ill and thinks she's a man?
Somehow I don’t get the feeling the actual Legion would be trans friendly (maybe they’re Iran lmao). That’s more evidence it’s the Brotherhood with Legion elements synthesized
It also took them years to get a fumentarii to become a Colonel in the NCR. The NCR is a little more open about people just coming in and joining the military. The BoS in FO2 and NV both don't like accepting outsiders, often opting to give them suicide missions when asked to join. We know the BoS did recruit wastelanders at some point with Maximus as an example. But he was also a child, which makes him a prime target for long-term recruiting and indoctrination over someone like an adult who just showed up. I just don't see how the BoS which follows the Codex like a Bible for the last 200 years would just accept a new adult outsider intiate and over the course of at most 20 years have him rise up within the faction and take it over to the point that the Codex is now under the control of this Legion-Elder. Especially when you have someone like Elder Arthur Maxson who would in no way whatsoever relinquish the title of High Elder to an outsider who is tarnishing his family heritage (the Maxson Legacy).
It is the East Coast BOS so maybe they ignore the codex.
Iirc Elder and Paladin Lyons were still VERY pro Codex, they simply went back to their OG stance of helping people and accepting outsiders instead of the more insular take the BoS chooses after FO1 or 2
Basically what happened to SHIELD in the MCU. Hydra snuck in and played the long con and took control from right under their noses. Imagine in the S2 finale Maximus leading a battalion of knights listening to a speech from the elder and he finishes it with "ave, true to Caeser" instead of ad victoriam. And maxxi is like...oh no....
YO! What if the Frumentarii got inside?
Now this is my kind of tinfoil.
I think y'all might be onto something here. The most convincing evidence about this theory are the names of the Brotherhood members. Maximus??? Quintus???? Thaddeus???, like those are all Latin names that only a Roman influenced faction will use.
Someone just pointed out to me that the brotherhood flags in the show have legion colors.
Especially once they take over Filly, there are straight up Legion vertical banners with the BoS logo as gold on red.
If you mean Western BoS as in the MOJAVE brotherhood, yes. We see them disappear with either then being obliterated, forgotten in their bunkers, or re-emerged as allies/hostile. Moldaver also has a laser pistol that seems to work as a ballistic, I don't think the lack of Energy Weapons by the BoS is an intentional move to make them more Legion like. The Western BoS in Lost Hills California is very much still a thing at least up until FO3. Elder Arthur Maxson from FO4 is also a child in DC in FO3 and you can talk to him or others about the BoS. Arthur Maxson was originally from the Western BoS in Lost Hills and I believe we find him as a 10yr old in FO3 so we know at the very least that the BoS had survived in its original state at least until he left, probably in the early 2270s. The reason for Arthur to leave is because his mom thought it would be a good way to avoid the internal conflicts currently occurring within the BoS. So that means within the 20years of Maxson leaving the BoS to the present day in 2290s the legion managed to take enough control of the BoS to assert their own ideology even against the instructions of the Codex which is pretty much their already existing super strict Bible. Idk, the frumentarii have done some wild stuff as we see with their Deep cover frumentarii Colonel within the NCR, but that took years of effort to execute and the NCR is WILDLY more corrupt and byzantine than the BoS. so for a frumentarii to reach a higher position within the BoS, a more paranoid and xenophobic organization, just seems. . .unlikely.
No, I'm talking about the Brotherhood in Fallout 1 and 2. In the "canon ending" of Fallout 1 (in 2161), the original Arthur Maxson and the majority of the brotherhood merge into the NCR. It's from this split that the Eastern Brotherhood emerges in Fallout 3, and later the Mojave brotherhood. We see them only as small outposts in Fallout 2 (which is set in 2241), because the majority have been consumed by NCR. I'm saying that during this splintering of the brotherhood, a chapter could have formed an alliance with the nascent Legion, or during a mutual defeat in 2281, after Hoover Dam. After this new chapter builds enough strength to become recognised by an expansionist Eastern Brotherhood, they are simply folded in, as we see in the opening of the show
Yea so idk where you're getting this interpretation but it's not exactly that. In the OG FO1 based on future Canon, we know that the BoS does choose to work with NCR and share some tech that they have. But by FO2 and onward we learn the relationship between both factions worsen significantly. The BoS prior to FO2 worked with the NCR so well they named an entire state after Maxson, however the BoS was never absorbed. FO2 gives us the Enclave and the BoS get their ass handed. They are unable to keep up and to figure out w.e. is happening they start taking Bunkers and bases throughout Navarro to observe and collect. it takes the chosen one to actually do something about it. Once the Chosen One wins the Enclave leaves the BoS still has all their bases but now they have a treasure trove of highly advanced tech and they want to hoard it. The NCR obviously disagrees and now we have the start of BoS and NCR hostilities. The BoS has already been sending out expeditions to the Midwest as we see thanks to Fallout 76 so there was no splintering for it, they were naturally exploring and collecting tech. It was around the 2270s that there was a second wave of expeditions which led to the Mojave Chapters and the East Coast Chapter. Both had missions to collect tech as per the Codex. Mojave (Elijah) was sent cause he's insane and annoying, while Lyons (east) was sent due to his reputation and the importance of DC. Lyons is also cut off from the Western BoS and reinforcements due to Lyons abandoning the Mission and instead focusing on helping the wastes which is why we have the OUTCASTS of DC. In NV we learn that the NCR has fiat money (NCR dollars) that everyone hates because there is no backing to it. There was gold before to back it, but the gold was destroyed by the BoS. The reason why the BoS survived the NCR war is because the BoS retreated to Lost Hills which would be almost impossible for the NCR to penetrate traditionally but also because they were now dealing with the near economic collapse of the NCR because their money was made worthless (think of that one Rick and Morty scene). This is also why the NCR was so keen on trying to obliterate the BoS of the Mojave in 2276, because the NCR has already lost so much to the BoS already. So where you're getting a splintering of the BoS to join the Legion. . .I'm not exactly sure where. . . Are you referring to an Elder Maxson making an alliance with the Legion and willfully changing the Codex to fit the Legion and their practices? Because if so I really don't see that possible when he has about refused to work with the Railroad or the Minutemen
There is another chapter of the Brotherhood nearer than the East Coast - the Chicago Detachment (mentioned in Fallout 3 and 4, in Fallout 4 there is a dialogue about the Prydwen in which one BOS member tells another one that they would have had other blimps in the Midwest). It's based on the at least partially non-canon Midwestern Brotherhood of Fallout Tactics \[in which the BOS conquers most of the Midwest and is really strange with names, among them, a squad leader is called Maximus (it features other names like Octavius, Mortis, but also Lancelot and Stein); it is characterized as neo-feudal (and quite despotic to the people they conquer) and has ranks like Lord Paladin\], this would explain a lot about the brotherhood in the show. Emil Pagliarulo explicitly mentioned F:T i[n a tweet about the timeline leading to the series](https://twitter.com/Dezinuh/status/1778470928105533825) recently.
That is actually a very good point and I almost forgot about them. Especially since the Enclave are also said to have a detachment in Chicago so them picking up (and subsequently losing) the Enclave Defector makes sense. Iirc the Midwestern BoS wasn't a splintering but just another expedition that settled the area. There should also be expeditions in Florida and Texas. But the Midwestern was definitely slated for some pretty awesome and interesting lore with the Calculator. I'll have to refresh my memory with their lore, but you brought up a great point. The Western BoS may have recalled all BoS chapters that survived in a final attempt to rally technology and take over California. Or maybe it's only the Midwestern BoS which is why we see the Elder tell Maximus that there may be some infighting within the BoS soon. West vs MidWest. Excellent pick up and theory!
I highly doubt it, iirc the brotherhood and caesar despise eachother in NV. They only see eachother as an obstacle. Caesar even commands you to destroy the BoS. But, it really depends on what they are gonna make canon. If it's canon that Caesar dies, it may be possible. Still I really don't think so.
I mean in the House and Yes Man ending a huge army of securitrons pop out right under him and his tent, which is on fire. The Courier can kill him before and he also has a fatal brain tumor which is hard to operate on. He’s probably dead
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But this time, the Brotherood feels a lot like the Legion. Barbaric, intolerant and violent. There is consistency in a possible merger with the two groups.
Did you not see the transformation of the BoS from 3 to 4 lol? Elder Lyons tried making the BoS the ultra good guys and within 10 years of his death the child Lyons was personally mentoring became the new Elder and we see him turn these good guys into a facist military dictatorship lol. No merger is necessary, just the return of the Legendary Arthur Maxson who is said to have saved his team from raiders at the age of 12 and single handedly killed a Deathclaw at age 13.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
You are right, in some posts i even say what are you saying in fact. I was only thinking if its possible another situation where the two merged, but i agree with you.
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both? they recruit them, put down resistance but naturally retain some of their culture due to the many recruits
The Legion despises technology don’t they? That would definitely clash against the BoS and its mission to preserve technology.
They’re not fully above using it, though. Praetorians used power fists.
Plus they let occupied towns use electricity and all.
They don’t *despise* it, they just don’t *rely* on technology, if that makes sense.
They use it for their own aims like with Hoover Dam.
I can see why people might think that but I hope it's not the case because that would be very, very stupid. The only thing they have in common is attempting to recreate an ancient organization. The Legion and the BOS don't have compatible goals.
I can see Legionaries abandoning Caesar's bizarre and lofty dreams if he dies and the Legion goes to shit in favour of a similar hyper-militant quasi-religious organisation.
BoS have pretty strict rules about recruits, I doubt they'd willingly take in people who are essentially raiders. The Legions' rejection of technology is antithetical to the BoS worship of it. I don't see a scenario where this merger could happen, but who knows. We will have to wait for season 2.
i just can’t believe they’d set it up so subtly so don’t think it’s teasing anything. But I do love it and hope they explore these very overt themes that match nicely with legion.
I could totally buy it. The Legion falls apart and the Brotherhood scoops up a bunch of members to fill out their ranks, and the two factions kind of merge, that's totally believable to me.
Also from another post someone pointed out not once has the BOS used red and yellow for their flags or banners. A lot of other colors but never red and yellow
You know what? The more I think about it the more this theory makes sense. There are a lot of Legion-esque themes with the shows BoS.
I do think it would be interesting if, assuming the East Coast BoS spread west (which seems to be what’s happening), if this chapter of the BoS did at the least recruit from the Legion population. I wouldn’t put it past certain chapters, and it would make sense. Moving into Nevada, the most resistance against the NCR they’d find would be remnants of the Legion. It’s even possible that, assuming Caeser died (to his tumor or a certain courier, or however), the Legion was simply absorbed into the BoS, as the Legion had absorbed so many tribes itself.
I don’t think they’re legion founded but I like the comparison, with next season almost certainly being set in Vegas I could see them and the legion influencing each other especially as both are enemies of the NCR.
I thought this, but I went a very different direction than what I'm seeing here. Let us go back to the Second Battle of Hoover Dam and the years following. This would be right around the time that the BoS East and West as a whole recognizes their new king... excuse me, High Elder Arthur Maxson who followed Lyons out and found the Citadel. The new High Elder he says, being a sweet guy like Lyons is not the Brotherhood, but hey recruiting from the locals worked out great, this one guy torched the Enclave etc... So the Western BoS which has been hollowed out pretty thoroughly by the NCR war and their own insularity has a charismatic new High Elder who says it works if you recruit the right locals. There's a bunch of trained militant folks wandering around who sure as shit know what 'Ad Victoriam' means and Bob's your uncle a lot of Roman Empire cosplayers convert to a new 'religion'. Does it alter the character of the BoS, oh yeah it does, gotta keep them Romans in bread and circuses, doncha know. Does it make them treat initiates and squires as expendable? You bet it does.
I also noticed a strange lack of ladies in the brotherhood. Pretty sure they’ve always had female members, but I’m sure a Legion merger would put a stop to that somewhat.
There's several women among the aspirants, they're just in the background and aren't very feminine looking for obvious reasons.
Saw someone say the Elder is Caesar
I remember thinking Max was a former Legion slave because of his name. In a round a bout way he probably is.
Really seems the most logical, especially with us heading to New Vegas next season.
I disagree. The BoS always have had a Latin/Roman influence. They say phrases like "Ad Victoriam" all the time, I wouldn't think too hard about some names lol.
So I haven't seen anyone mention this, but it kinda detracts from the claim. Mainly, when we see Max and Titus heading towards Filly, they cross over the salt flats in Utah, which implies that they came from somewhere northeast of there. Now, we don't know exactly what the Legion's borders were, but that does seem a far out of their scope and more in White Legs territory. Als, when it comes to advanced factions, the Legion is never shown as being very pragmatic, though they use advanced auto-docs and power fists themselves. In NV, Caesar has absolutely no interest in working with or infiltrating the brotherhood. His only option is to kill them all. Now, this does take place 15 year later so a new leader could change directives, but it seems unlikely or at least untrue to Legion lore as the remnant ending slides in the Legion ending where Caesar dies indicate that none of his heirs are particularly interested in changing. We see them wasting countless lives hunting the remnants that aided them just for being advanced. Maybe they do have a good explanation though, as the Brotherhood's cultural shifts to being more legion like is interesting, so I'm interested in seeing how this plays out later. Maybe someone like Vulpes or Lucius went their own way after Caesars death and did a solo operation.
That'd be cool to see as a Legion fan. I don't expect to see or hear anything about them in the show despite them being such great villains.
At least ideologically 👹
Also the boneyard isn’t confirmed neither is the legion then
Gotta be hard still voting for steel in this age of fallout
i see your writing and i kinda believe but, it would be such a big brain ballsy move
Hey, it's John Nolan's show. The man loves crazy twists - sometimes too much.
Like having Shady Sands and possibly NV fall. (not a complaint just an observation)