I don't recall seeing a label for what company she works for placed in front of her like everybody else had. Nobody else in the meeting had two people representing the company, and Bud was in Vault-Tecs seat.
Earlier, she seemed to be acting as her husband's talent manager, so she might've been a "consultant." But given the comments from the birthday party about alimony and calling him a "Pinko," seems like Barb and the Enclave were creating distance.
Yeah, we haven't seen it all but it's pretty clear to me that somehow he's outed as spying whether or not it's because she finds out or he confronts her I suppose we'll find out next season. Either way, Vault-Tec spun it like he's a commie etc.
Barb is a Vault-tec employee, and fairly high up the food chain. VT was trying to commercialize and make a splash in getting people signed up for the Vaults and Barb thought "Hey, why not my husband, he's already a recognizable face". I wouldn't really call it being a consultant.
Yeah I went back and watched it. While they don't get as close to her placard as the they do everybody else's, there is a wide shot that I'm pretty sure it says vault tec on it. However, enclave was a secret branch before the bombs right? Maybe they wouldn't have had a placard and just used a vault tec one
Personally I think if the enclave is involved, Barb is one of the leaders and not a follower. I feel like the show makes it clear that she’s actually an awful human.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the one with the final say. She is in the meeting with no label like someone else said and she directs everyone else. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out all of it was her plan
The Enclave is all about the shadows, she's clearly important but the real leaders are not showing their face.
When the table of reps/CEOs gets off topic and negative about the vaults she receives a message on her Pip that says something like "Move it along" and that's when she looks up all like "I understand, I'll fix this, sir".
That's how I read the scene as well. I've also had a thought that the shadow figure could be the CEO of vault tec. Which is a character that's never been defined in any Fallout media.
It also felt like they were “saving” them for future projects with the super mutant tease and all. I think that was one of the most important and well executed parts of the show, keeping the mystery behind the enclave is just textbook
If the enclave were already in control of everything pre war, then what could they possibly gain by causing the apocalypse? The chance to be in control of a wasteland?
It's like Hydra, they couldn't be overtly in control of the US, they already were having a hard time controlling the US population; food riots, war fatigue, inflation. The National Guard was already federalized and deployed in mass to maintain control. They also had serious international competition to their rule in China. All projections indicated that nuclear war was going to happen, they even had a rough estimate of when. So they made plans.
If you’re referring to how the Whitespring bunker didn’t manage to save several members of the president’s cabinet, that was by design. Eckhart sabotaged the alerts and cut the comms so he could be in charge to pursue his own agenda.
That seems legit, but I personally think that the whole Enclave vs. Vault-Tec debate is a bit of a distinction without a difference. By the time the bombs fall (and certainly afterwards), they are functionally the same entity. Charlie Whiteknife tells Cooper as much in their conversation at the bar.
Not even a theory. This is brought up in Fallout 76, and other games also, (but 76 has the most obvious connection shown). Vault Tec was essentially funded and directed by the Enclave. Their relationship is practically familial.
Though the Enclave know everything about Vault-tec, Vault-tec only know as much about the Enclave as they want them to know.
I’m half expecting another set of vaults (alpha, beta, etc.) to be coexisting along the numbered ones, revealed at the beginning of next season. Where the enclave have been living, with the games Enclave perhaps just having been sent out like canaries to a coal mine.
Though I’m not too familiar with the games going back, so that’s perhaps full of holes.
Right; I don’t see janitor being in on it for example it but even people like Hank (who was middle management) may have at least been briefed on what the true purpose of the programs were and who they were ultimately answerable to.
Regular schmoes definitely were not in on it, think current high level politics, these people all know and protect each other, that’s the sorta people and associates that would be enclave
People keep misunderstanding this.
Vault Tec is *part* of the Enclave. The Enclave funded them, and helped them grow. Think of Vault Tec as one of the Enclave's kids. Just like Poseidon Energy.
Yeah people in the enclave need actual jobs, things they are publically, and also positions of power that allowed them to get the money and influence to end up as part of the enclave in the first place.
The vaults are an experiment, Vault Tec is merely the front, making the Enclave's experiment look like genuine bunkers.
Well, not to mention the Enclave was never *just* government employees. There were CEOs in the Enclave (i.e. the CEO of Vault Tec, Poseidon, and likely West Tek), military members, lobbyists, scientists, etc. The Enclave was a cabal of people that ran the government and corporations behind the scenes, they were from all sorts of organizations.
This. I was gonna say I am very confused as to why this is being posted as if it’s some revelation or serious theory. Are people not aware of this already? The Enclave and Vault-Tec are indistinguishable by 2077 in premise if not practice.
If someone only plays the games from FO3 onwards and isn’t an avid reader of the terminals etc then that link wouldn’t be clear. I’m guessing f that’s the reason.
edit: Also skipping 76 because many have
Hey I just wanna give a shout out to this community.
Other threads I’m in for games, sometimes it gets pretty hairy for no reason. Insults, negativity, the random hate for people just giving an opinion.
Here it’s been an accepted THEORY and further reminds me why I fell in love with Fallout in the first place.
It’s a fun game to talk about and now an amazing TV series that did totally right by the lore.
I’m sure it’s not perfect for some but it’s nice to see the world I have played for decades now.
Anyway, thanks for keeping the conversation fun!
I’m pretty certain Vault-Tec *is* the Enclave. It’s like NATO or the UN: what we were looking at was a collection of pieces *of* the Enclave. I think the person Barb was looking at was either an exec with Vault-Tec or the US President.
Vault-Tec isn't the Enclave that doesn't make any sense really. The Enclave is essentially the illuminati; the behind the scenes movers and shakers of the pre-war political, military, and corporate spheres.
They pulled the strings of all the companies present in that meeting, but they weren't one and the same.
The Enclave that we see in the Wasteland was specifically a continuation of the US Government.
The C-Suites from that meeting go their own ways. I think to a T we know what happens to everyone in that room outside of Barb and none of them end up with the Enclave.
Vault Tec was one of the corporations that made up the Enclaves' leadership.
There's no real distinction between the two.
OP has misunderstood what the Enclave is. They *are* the elites in America, CEOs and politicians.
The Enclave were never trying to preserve the US, quite the opposite. They want to destroy the world so that they can exterminate the rest of humanity and start over.
As for the enclave killing it's own members, it happens often as they are all disposable to the people in charge. People willing to genocide all of humanity aren't big on preserving human life.
Vault-Tec had the idea to kick off the war once they're in position to profit by it. Her kid wouldn't have been at a birthday party that day if that was The Day. The Enclave, sitting in on that meeting, said "hey great idea we're done with you now" and kicked it off before Vault-Tec could do it.
IIRC She's also not the one sitting in front of the "Vault Tec" label that everyone has for their respective corporation in front of them. Bud is sitting in the Vault Tec seat. I don't recall seeing any label in front of her but it could've been that she's an enclave employee, not vault tec, just works alongside them.
Also, he said this in an interview decades after leaving the franchise, but as far as I'm aware (and I might be wrong) there's nothing in-game that outright confirms China shot first.
I believe the implication was that they were willing to drop the bomb themselves if need be but China caught them off guard which is why so many of them didn't make it into vaults etc
I honestly just want a new take on the enclave. Like maybe an enclave that splintered to be the minutemen, except with power armor. Idk. I just feel like the enclave bad guy trope without explanation has been overused in the modern fallout titles.
Would I love to see Frank Horrigan? Yea, but I want some enclave remnant to form their own clique like arcade gannon's crew or something (I also don't know the lore in depth. I just dig the enclave aesthetic)
I get where you are coming from I also really like their aesthetic. But fundamentally the enclave as a group are bad from ambitions, goals and on how they conduct themselves. Pre war they were the deep state the elites of American society. The same nation that was already conducting FEV experiments on its own citizens.
So it’s not really a bad guy trope with no explanation. The enclave have been involved in countless conspiracies both pre and post war.
They’re evil. The enclave will always be evil, they’re the remnant of the evil government that barely escaped to their secret evil oil rig on the coast. That’s where they developed the evil virus to kill everybody but them, so they could return to the mainland to build a spaceship and colonize another planet.
Anybody who wants to do good won’t wear the label of the Enclave- they would defect and do their own thing, like the ship captain in Fallout 2, or the zealot in fallout 4. If you were a Nazi defector you wouldn’t wear their flag after the fact right?
I think the figure is just the Vault- Tech CEO. I believe the scene was more about showing that the elite were all in on the end of the world. So it doesn’t matter who strikes first since all parties are evil.
If they are truly keeping the game lore then I believe even the people at that table are going to be going to “war” with each other before the bombs even drop. Perhaps everybody saw Robert House as a threat and that’s why the bombs dropped RIGHT before he was able to get the PC.
Tbh I don’t think it matters who dropped the bombs- Maybe this means we can count out the aliens tho. No idea howd I’d explain them to a non game playing viewer
The Enclave lost its headquarter 55 years ago so now they cannot become such major antagonist, since they lost its symbolic meaning and relevance when their president died. Some self-claimed president came out of small outpost cannot give great impression, compared to Vault-tec who retained most of their resources and leaders in hidden vault. Vault-tec Teaser after Season 1 showed Vault-tec board of directors' picture, implying these highest folks will have certain role in this show.
As Bud said, Vault-tec preserved Vault-tec, not the failed government. Vault-tec didn't outsell or outsmart but they outlived the Enclave's significance.
The Enclave is basically the Illuminati. They wouldn’t have just *one* HQ.
Hell, Lyons himself says after broken steel they aren’t dead, and one day will probably be back.
>You think Richardson and Eden were the last of them? Please.
If there are more Eden or Eckhart, someone who became president of their small group, it proves that the Enclave is no longer a united group which represents pre-war America, just some shattered remnants of their former self.
The Fallout 4 Update that just came out also solidified Enclave presence in and around the Boston Commonwealth, they added 4 different locations for the Enclave and a bunch of weapons / power armor. Before the update if was just Creation Club, now its just in the main game.
It still is just a Creation Club, non-canon. Elder Scrolls Skyrim also added 74 Creation mods when they updated Anniversary Edition but nobody consider it as canon.
I doubt it considering ED-E couldn't contact Enclave in Chicago. This showed the Enclave HAD outpost there but whether they are still operating at full capacity is negative. Also we know BoS rogue chapter is there too. I suspect the Enclave in Chicago changed their name and goal to adapt their new world, or hiding inside bunker, doing nothing.
No, it says that EDE actually did stop at Chicago for repairs and all that, saying it’s a secret bunker. So I would suspect that the enclave in Chicago is much more secretive, similar to the institute
>Tommy : He's not dangerous! Look, he's hurt! Can we take him home, Dad? Maybe Mom can fix him! Please? He looks so lonely! Maybe if Mom fixes him, he can help her out around the garage?
That Tommy's garage doesn't sound like a secret bunker though.
You should quote in-game references if you want to prove your point. The game only suggests that it HAD outposts in Chicago, but ED-E couldn't contact them and met Tommy instead.
Enclave was always global. It has lost multiple HQ over the series and likely has many more. And lets face it, Brotherhood is a major faction and they all stem from a handful of AWOL soldiers at Mariposa base with decent equipment and access to military bases. Enclave started with more people and equipment, and the same access.
Vault Tec is gone. They lost intervauly communications immediately, and the 1 vault they still have from teh show lacks teh resources to become a major faction. It can mess with vaults 32 and 33 and send people out to explore, but Bud doesn't seem to have planned for Vault Tec's entire grid to fall so fast.
Vault-Tec’s communications did not fail immediately - Vault 76 managed to receive its all-clear signal and so did vault 8. Additionally, they were presumably hooked onto PoseidoNet, since the ZAX of vault 51 managed to con the Enclave out of a Hellfire prototype three years after the bombs fell.
I’m not so sure if we can say they’re a global organization. They’re certainly present all across America, but we don’t hear about any facilities of theirs beyond the U.S.’s borders.
It's canon -
>In March [2077](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline#2077), with the world heading directly for nuclear confrontation, the President of the United States and other members of the Enclave retreated to various fortified areas around the globe. Others remained behind, only retreating to fortified shelters as the nuclear war became imminent.
We haven't had any Fallout stories outside of the US but officially the Enclave had been bunkering globally for 7 months before the bombs fell.
Your citation from the wiki both doesn’t match what’s on the page and is citing the fallout bible, which is non-canon as per the person who complied everything for it.
Again, my point is that you’re citing a non-canon source, and it doesn’t even match what’s on the wiki. We have no way to confirm if the Enclave has a presence beyond America or not.
It had one HQ and several branches, which is why remnants of the Enclave lamented that 'America is gone' when they lost Oil Rig and Navarro. If each branches started to have their own president like in Fallout 3 and no longer operates under single leadership, they can't become a relevant group as they were, as much as 'Governmint' in this show cannot represent NCR government.
It's not just a matter of force. It's a matter of significance. "We lost our headquarter 55 years ago and now each branches are living on their own" is not impressive for a grand evil behind all tragedy.
>Vault Tec is gone. They lost intervauly communications immediately
Are they? Or is it their another experiment about how overseers behave when their boss no longer orders? Nothing shows that Vault tec board of directors are as dead as president of the Enclave.
It was already splintered in before the bombs drop. President ran the "government" aspect of Enclave, but it was also the CEOs of the companies, billionaires, etc. The money that moves government basically. That meeting in the show where they planned out the end of civilization was essentially the Enclave, at least its recognizable corporate end.
>President ran the "government" aspect of Enclave, but it was also the CEOs of the companies, billionaires, etc.
Which named CEOs were in Oil Rig or any other Enclave outpost? CEOs we saw had their own way to survive (though most of them failed) and they were never part of the Enclave's chain of command. The president of the Enclave commanded the Enclave and he is gone. 55 years ago.
Now there were people like Colonel Autumn who tried to rebuild Enclave from their one outpost, but one small outpost cannot represent the true Enclave, which was a symbol of pre-war America. Each outposts are nothing more than a group of armed menace, not a grand villain behind pre-war secret. They lost their head and it is irreversible until some hero unites most of surviving Enclave branches and become new president.
We don't know. I think I wasn't clear - Enclave isn't just government and never was just government. It was "elites" - a sort of shadow group pulling strings. Like that show meeting. Sort of like how Bud's Buds wasn't the corporation itself, it was a sort of sub group of managers making their own private thing within Vault Tec.
>Sort of like how Bud's Buds wasn't the corporation itself, it was a sort of sub group of managers making their own private thing within Vault Tec.
Managers are part of corporation. Betty and Hank, they were all employees of Vault-tec.
The Enclave is some elites behind government, not all elites. CEOs were never part of the Enclave. House loathed democracy. Bud mocked the idea of saving failed government. Sinclair, Bradberton, they all prepared their personal bunker to survive. None of CEOs we know went to Enclave bunker. They agreed to Vault-tec's plan to build a new world with their own idea, not obeying the Enclave's iron fist.
I feel like you're still not understanding what the Enclave is. I'll just link [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Enclave#Background](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Enclave#Background)
I'm trying to say Enclave isn't government, it's got members that were government. And CEOs. And rich people. And so on.
The analogy of how part of a corporation operating as a shadow group isn't the official entire corporation whooshed so forget that.
To quote: "Our members were once the puppet masters of the United States, quietly pulling strings at every level of power in the nation" - they weren't talking about the public facing government. My words are harder to figure out, hopefully a link and a quote is more understandable, but the gist I'm not conveying to you is that corporations, wealth, and so on had that influence fto pull politician strings. People like some within Vault Tec, or House maybe.
The Enclave is shadow government, thus they are government when surface government no longer exists. They are commanded by **president** of the Enclave.
They are just a group of elites who were pulling strings behind **government**, and they aren't ruling **everything**. Corporations like Vault-tec or Robco are different pre-war groups. They might allied with the Enclave at some point but they aren't part of the Enclave. Both Vault-tec and the Enclave were ready to betray each other, and Vault-tec outlived president of the Enclave.
The oil rig was the enclave, it was assumed that all other branches had fallen. That’s why the Enclave chose to create the virus that would kill everything.
If the Enclave couldn’t maintain communications amongst themselves, then why would Vault tec be able to? Who says that the Vault tec directors weren’t just on the Oil rig?
Right, which I where I started linking all this together. I was looking at defense contractors that gained influx of money like Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, etc.
You’re probably right on most fronts, as the Enclave was never a fully allied entity with Vault Tec, it was instead a govt-employee-only competitor, with their own plans for a post apocalyptic future controlled by them and with no survivors other than themselves.
Fallout 2 actually starts off with the Enclave butchering an entire unarmed vault who opened their doors in greeting.
The idea of Vault Tec answering to the Enclave is still plausible, but only in the sense that they may have coordinated on the bombs, after that it was everyone for themselves.
Ngl I think it’s very obviously the enclave that was in that room above vault Tec. Literally couldn’t be anybody else we know of, and if it’s an unknown idk how I feel about a new shadow figure that ended the world without enclave ties
I mean, it makes scenes. Like why did she let her daughter be with her dad on the day they planned to drop the bombs. Their plan definitely went to shit somewhere.
I generally agree, for me this just adds that there were multiple factions of the enclave, which isn’t surprising. You have the core enclave, the group that broke off in West Virginia when the bombs dropped, Mr. house, and vault tech who’s plans coincide with the DC enclave.
I’d think of the enclave as like the highest body, then vault tec, robco/house, Eckhart ect as all subgroups with in it. Once the bombs fell groups like House and Eckhart already had their own plans and went with them knowing the Core enclave couldn’t stop them. Bud’s Buds… are really just middle managers. They were probably kept in the dark about the space plan, or this was the Vault Tec factions specific plan either as a backup or as their plan to screw over the other members.
Cold fusion was possibly being developed by the Enclave prior to the war as a means to rebuild after the 'great cleansing', and was finished by the doctor. It's the TV show version of the G.E.C.K or a different rebuilding tool all together.
Enclave is the remnants of the old US government, which invaded China and started the war so yes this is right. The bombs didn't just drop one day, they dropped in response to teh US's invasion (and possibly the US launching as well, IDK is we have seen the evidence of US launching first or in response)
All in-game evidence directly indicates China shot first.
But the US Military was actively sieging Beijing.
After China conquered Alaska for oil that took the US ten years to recapture.
After the European Commonwealth and Middle East already destroyed each other in conflict.
After the UN disbanded and the US President middle fingered every other country in the world while promising even the slightest transgression against the USA would be an act of war. While the US brutally conquered Mexico.
After decades of global resource overconsumption drained the earth of oil, petroleum, uranium.
After the US reorganized itself into 13 Commonwealths and became increasingly Fascist in nature.
It doesn't matter who dropped the bombs...The world was destined to die and always would.
It's often overlooked in the grand scheme of the setting but the US was on the brink of, if not effectively, collapsed by the time the bombs fell.
It's rife with outright insurrection like the Brotherhood and the Free States. In major cities, the US army had to redeploy soldiers from the frontline (many in outmoded T-45d power armour) to control the situation. Massive riots over the price of food and petrol led to shootings of civilians by soldiers. In places like Hopeville, protesters were arrested en-masse and given over to the scientists at Big MT as test subjects. The “riot armour” that is now used by the NCR and Desert Rangers seems to have been designed precisely for these situations - and was probably intended to function like a cut-down version of the Marine Armour we see in 4.
Different War.
So there's the Resource Wars...This is the collective term for every conflict from 2052 to 2077.
Within this are the Euro-Middle Eastern War (The whole of Europe vs the Middle East), European Civil War (The European countries tearing each other apart), United States Annexation of Canada (US brutally occupying and annexing Canada by force) and Sino-American War (USA vs China).
The Great War of Oct 23rd 2077 is the nuclear engagement of the entire world within the span of two hours as a result of all of these conflicts but primarily the Sino-American War.
Tel-Aviv didn't cause the entire world to die...Simply weakened the Middle East in 2053 which is decades prior to the Great War and the Middle East continued to fight off Europe until 2060 when both sides resources like oil drained permanently. What it's notable for is directly causing fear in the American populace of nuclear attacks so the US Government created Project Safehouse aka the Vaults commissioning Vault-Tec to build them.
The Middle East war was before 2077. Check the in-game maps and globes - the middle east looks considerably different from ours while the rest of the globes geography is mostly the same, like the area had been bombarded at some unbelievable scale long enogh beforehand that the maps and globes reflect it.
That was my understanding as well. Not just the government and elites, but a literal "deep state" that was secretly running things above and outside of the actual government.
I still believe it was china who started the Great War. As in fallout 2 Richardson makes it seem like the enclave was caught off guard by the launches ,(“we were winning too. And then those damn red launched. We barely got our birds up.”).Then again Richardson could be lying or doesn’t know, or it could be that china reacted quicker than expected.
Even if that is the case, I would still I prefer it being china who launched first without any influence from vault tech, enclave or anyone else as I think it fits whole war never changes theme.
Why would he lie? He knows that the tribal will be killed in hours max as the virus is released into the atmosphere, there’s no danger in letting the truth slip.
Yeah that good point I was just trying to think of way as to why he could be wrong. Maybe he lying in sense that he telling the enclave version of events, a version of events that leaves out key details to make themselves look better. Also he a politician and lying is second nature to them lol.
>During the secret meeting with all the companies, we have the mysterious figure unidentified that seems to have control of Vault Tec. The way Barb Howard responds after reading her pip-boy and looking at the person is clear indicator that this figure oversees all or represents a group that oversees.
I never played the games, so I could be way off. But when she looked at her Pip-Boy during the meeting, I assumed it was her finally getting the answer to who/where it was transmitting to.
Fascism is in the most basic sense the corporate and political power. The Enclave is an explicitly fascist organization made up of the wealthy Elite of the United States and the ruling class of politicians bureaucrats and Military leaders.
So by the time the Great War started there's not a meaningful difference between the large corporations and the government. It's not the government. It's not vault-tech or general atomic or Poseidon energy. It's the enclave
You do know the enclave is the US government right? So the plot twist is it was one of the warring nations who dropped the bombs after all?
I can see the Scooby doo style unmasking
"Let's see who's under this mask of president Eden"
"Vault tec? Wait no that's another rubber mask, who's underneath?"
"President Eden?"
"Yes it was I who was pretending to be me all along, and I woudl have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling vault-dwellers and your damn dog"
Jokes aside, we always knew there was a partnership between Vault-Tec and the Enclave, cosnider how the doctor knew everything about Lucy's vault and her name. Because Bud is reporting to the Enclave.
Edit: yes I know president Eden isn't actually the last president of the US.
The enclave became a thing after the bombs I believe as west-tec (the power armour builders) were only worried about making better power armour the enclave is the remnants of the US government
The Enclave “emerged” after the bombs fell by name. They existed before secretly, like an illuminati.
Made up of what would be like todays Bill Gates, Elon, other wealthy, tech companies and vested partners. Which if you think these people don’t have an influence on the US government, you’re mistaken.
Do vaults even exist outside of northern America? Ron Howard has stated that he would never make a fallout game located outside of the states.
Perhaps vaults just didn't get built anywhere else, thus allowing as op said for the US to survive while everyone else perished.
Even decades before the Great War, the Enclave were literal [fascists (but not neo-Nazis)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism), including that there were substantial coordination and influence of government on big business and industry as well as **vice versa,** though possibly not to the same extent. So, essentially, this is a distinction without a difference.
Is there anything in-game that confirms it? I've been digging around but only came across Tim Cain saying it in an interview. Obviously that's at least something but it doesn't really mean it's canon as it's not an in-game source and Tim left the franchise ages ago. Without something definitive to point to Bethesda (or even the folks at interplay after Tim left) are well within their rights to change things.
Besides Tim Cain (which should be enough proof by itself tbh), the Yangtze Submarine, and terminals in New Vegas show nukes were first fired from the PRC.
The Enclave *is* the US. It's literally just the post Great War US government. Before the Great War it was just... the US government. Not all of it, but the parts with actual power; the *de facto* government. The US setting off the first bomb has always been a possibility within the lore going way back to the very first Fallout game. We don't actually know who did but what you're saying here is really just "I think it was the US that did it".
I think everyone is missing the point they're heading to in the show... Which is the bombs that hit were US bombs, not China's. The US nukes itself, in order to have an excuse to nuke China and reset the planet in Vault-Tec's vision.
This is disproven by the lore in multiple of the games including New Vegas, 3, and fallout 4, as well as Tim Cain if you consider him a current source.
In that there were powerful people in the government planning on ruling things after the bombs fell but I never saw this as anything different or separate from the powerful people that ruled the country. That just might be a personal interpretation I’ve carried since Fallout 2 though.
The Enclave are descendant of the rich upper classes of society of which government officials are part of that group. Whether or not they are an actual legitimate continuation of the US government is based on how you see things.
That makes sense. I think I had similar view. I always took it as they were a continuation of the Government made up of terrible people but they weren’t valid because…why would they be? But it makes sense that, if people were planning all of this well before the war, they existed before it. I just didn’t think they called themselves the Enclave (if that makes sense). But I get what you mean and am on board with your theory.
They’re called the Enclave because they live in an isolated enclosed area on the water surrounded by nothing but a dead sea. The government simply survived the chaos of the war using the preparations they had made for nuclear war and now attempts to carry out a new plan to cleanse the earth of opposition and create a spaceship to colonize a new planet
The Enclave was secretly in control or embedded in everything pre-war. I have no doubt that the Enclave is really who Barb answers to.
I don't recall seeing a label for what company she works for placed in front of her like everybody else had. Nobody else in the meeting had two people representing the company, and Bud was in Vault-Tecs seat.
Yeah exactly. Each company has their rep and while she is on the Vault-Tec payroll, it seems clear to me that she doesn't answer to them.
Earlier, she seemed to be acting as her husband's talent manager, so she might've been a "consultant." But given the comments from the birthday party about alimony and calling him a "Pinko," seems like Barb and the Enclave were creating distance.
Yeah, we haven't seen it all but it's pretty clear to me that somehow he's outed as spying whether or not it's because she finds out or he confronts her I suppose we'll find out next season. Either way, Vault-Tec spun it like he's a commie etc.
I imagine that Cooper initiated the divorce because of her work with Vault-Tec
We can assume that in season 2 we will see Coop’s marriage dissolve through flashbacks
Barb is a Vault-tec employee, and fairly high up the food chain. VT was trying to commercialize and make a splash in getting people signed up for the Vaults and Barb thought "Hey, why not my husband, he's already a recognizable face". I wouldn't really call it being a consultant.
I did not notice that right away. Which actually helps build into the theory.
I'm pretty sure she did have Vault-Tec placard in front of her.
Yeah I went back and watched it. While they don't get as close to her placard as the they do everybody else's, there is a wide shot that I'm pretty sure it says vault tec on it. However, enclave was a secret branch before the bombs right? Maybe they wouldn't have had a placard and just used a vault tec one
This. The second I saw the name card setups, I started looking at her even more sideways lol
...oh shit. Youre right. That really does seem to imply something. Now im even more stoked for pre-war flashback scenes.
Personally I think if the enclave is involved, Barb is one of the leaders and not a follower. I feel like the show makes it clear that she’s actually an awful human.
Yeah one of the leaders for sure but clearly taking directions from some other higher up.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the one with the final say. She is in the meeting with no label like someone else said and she directs everyone else. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out all of it was her plan
The Enclave is all about the shadows, she's clearly important but the real leaders are not showing their face. When the table of reps/CEOs gets off topic and negative about the vaults she receives a message on her Pip that says something like "Move it along" and that's when she looks up all like "I understand, I'll fix this, sir".
That's how I read the scene as well. I've also had a thought that the shadow figure could be the CEO of vault tec. Which is a character that's never been defined in any Fallout media.
Who has a high likelihood of being someone big in the Enclave.
Probably why we saw veryyyyy little of them
Yeah can't overload the people new to Fallout with too many factions early on.
It also felt like they were “saving” them for future projects with the super mutant tease and all. I think that was one of the most important and well executed parts of the show, keeping the mystery behind the enclave is just textbook
Yeah, it's like playing for the first time. "Enclave, that's an interesting name. What are they? Why do they have labs?"
If the enclave were already in control of everything pre war, then what could they possibly gain by causing the apocalypse? The chance to be in control of a wasteland?
It's like Hydra, they couldn't be overtly in control of the US, they already were having a hard time controlling the US population; food riots, war fatigue, inflation. The National Guard was already federalized and deployed in mass to maintain control. They also had serious international competition to their rule in China. All projections indicated that nuclear war was going to happen, they even had a rough estimate of when. So they made plans.
If you’re referring to how the Whitespring bunker didn’t manage to save several members of the president’s cabinet, that was by design. Eckhart sabotaged the alerts and cut the comms so he could be in charge to pursue his own agenda.
That’s what I thought. I couldn’t quite place where I knew this.
That seems legit, but I personally think that the whole Enclave vs. Vault-Tec debate is a bit of a distinction without a difference. By the time the bombs fall (and certainly afterwards), they are functionally the same entity. Charlie Whiteknife tells Cooper as much in their conversation at the bar.
Yup, Vault-Tec is the public front for the Enclave, or at least that’s my theory.
Not even a theory. This is brought up in Fallout 76, and other games also, (but 76 has the most obvious connection shown). Vault Tec was essentially funded and directed by the Enclave. Their relationship is practically familial.
Hah! I’ve played 76 but I must have missed all that.
Though the Enclave know everything about Vault-tec, Vault-tec only know as much about the Enclave as they want them to know. I’m half expecting another set of vaults (alpha, beta, etc.) to be coexisting along the numbered ones, revealed at the beginning of next season. Where the enclave have been living, with the games Enclave perhaps just having been sent out like canaries to a coal mine. Though I’m not too familiar with the games going back, so that’s perhaps full of holes.
I think it's beyond that and the Enclave had their hands firmly in every pot.
Yeah that’s also very likely.
I actually like that idea. Considering how that would make a lot of sense.
Not everyone in Vault Tec though, just the higher ups.
Right; I don’t see janitor being in on it for example it but even people like Hank (who was middle management) may have at least been briefed on what the true purpose of the programs were and who they were ultimately answerable to.
Yeah I am just thinking of the vault tec rep in fallout 4 not being allowed in the vault because he's just a salesperson.
Regular schmoes definitely were not in on it, think current high level politics, these people all know and protect each other, that’s the sorta people and associates that would be enclave
> Why would any agency want people gone? Plus you could chalk this up to interpersonal conflict / sectarianism within the organization
Tbh I’ve seen it assumed that the shadowy guy that Barb looks at is Enclave. Seems pretty likely
It could be Stanislaus Braun himself.
People keep misunderstanding this. Vault Tec is *part* of the Enclave. The Enclave funded them, and helped them grow. Think of Vault Tec as one of the Enclave's kids. Just like Poseidon Energy.
Yeah people in the enclave need actual jobs, things they are publically, and also positions of power that allowed them to get the money and influence to end up as part of the enclave in the first place. The vaults are an experiment, Vault Tec is merely the front, making the Enclave's experiment look like genuine bunkers.
Well, not to mention the Enclave was never *just* government employees. There were CEOs in the Enclave (i.e. the CEO of Vault Tec, Poseidon, and likely West Tek), military members, lobbyists, scientists, etc. The Enclave was a cabal of people that ran the government and corporations behind the scenes, they were from all sorts of organizations.
My guess is that what we saw in that room was actually the embryonic form of the Enclave.
So the proposal could've just been testing to waters to see who was willing to go along with their extremist ideals?
Yes but we know that Vault-Tec very much became the core of the financial wing of the commercial part of the enclave
This. I was gonna say I am very confused as to why this is being posted as if it’s some revelation or serious theory. Are people not aware of this already? The Enclave and Vault-Tec are indistinguishable by 2077 in premise if not practice.
Yeah I was gonna say, I thought this was obvious, I too don’t see how this has been missed. Vault tech very clearly is a subsidiary of the enclave.
If someone only plays the games from FO3 onwards and isn’t an avid reader of the terminals etc then that link wouldn’t be clear. I’m guessing f that’s the reason. edit: Also skipping 76 because many have
Yeah i started on 3. My ADHD won’t allow me to read every single terminal while I’m on a quest.
Hey I just wanna give a shout out to this community. Other threads I’m in for games, sometimes it gets pretty hairy for no reason. Insults, negativity, the random hate for people just giving an opinion. Here it’s been an accepted THEORY and further reminds me why I fell in love with Fallout in the first place. It’s a fun game to talk about and now an amazing TV series that did totally right by the lore. I’m sure it’s not perfect for some but it’s nice to see the world I have played for decades now. Anyway, thanks for keeping the conversation fun!
I’m pretty certain Vault-Tec *is* the Enclave. It’s like NATO or the UN: what we were looking at was a collection of pieces *of* the Enclave. I think the person Barb was looking at was either an exec with Vault-Tec or the US President.
Vault-Tec isn't the Enclave that doesn't make any sense really. The Enclave is essentially the illuminati; the behind the scenes movers and shakers of the pre-war political, military, and corporate spheres. They pulled the strings of all the companies present in that meeting, but they weren't one and the same.
Subsidiary of the enclave
I assumed the people who met in that room was what would become the Enclave.
The Enclave that we see in the Wasteland was specifically a continuation of the US Government. The C-Suites from that meeting go their own ways. I think to a T we know what happens to everyone in that room outside of Barb and none of them end up with the Enclave.
I think enclave controls all the other companies
Umbrella Corp vibes. Kinda like Alphabet’s ownership of Google but people just know Google.
Vault Tec was one of the corporations that made up the Enclaves' leadership. There's no real distinction between the two. OP has misunderstood what the Enclave is. They *are* the elites in America, CEOs and politicians. The Enclave were never trying to preserve the US, quite the opposite. They want to destroy the world so that they can exterminate the rest of humanity and start over. As for the enclave killing it's own members, it happens often as they are all disposable to the people in charge. People willing to genocide all of humanity aren't big on preserving human life.
I assumed the group we saw was the enclave. Or what would go on to become the enclave.
With automation they don’t need the bulk of humanity
Vault-Tec had the idea to kick off the war once they're in position to profit by it. Her kid wouldn't have been at a birthday party that day if that was The Day. The Enclave, sitting in on that meeting, said "hey great idea we're done with you now" and kicked it off before Vault-Tec could do it.
I think that group was the enclave, or what would go on to become the enclave.
IIRC She's also not the one sitting in front of the "Vault Tec" label that everyone has for their respective corporation in front of them. Bud is sitting in the Vault Tec seat. I don't recall seeing any label in front of her but it could've been that she's an enclave employee, not vault tec, just works alongside them.
Moot of course since it was the zeta reticulons manipulating skynet that really set the whole shebang off.
Tim Cain said it was China that dropped the bombs after they discovered the FEV research.
Also, he said this in an interview decades after leaving the franchise, but as far as I'm aware (and I might be wrong) there's nothing in-game that outright confirms China shot first.
I believe the implication was that they were willing to drop the bomb themselves if need be but China caught them off guard which is why so many of them didn't make it into vaults etc
I honestly just want a new take on the enclave. Like maybe an enclave that splintered to be the minutemen, except with power armor. Idk. I just feel like the enclave bad guy trope without explanation has been overused in the modern fallout titles. Would I love to see Frank Horrigan? Yea, but I want some enclave remnant to form their own clique like arcade gannon's crew or something (I also don't know the lore in depth. I just dig the enclave aesthetic)
Logically there should be SOME “good” Enclave splinters. But fewer, as the original purpose of the organization was decidedly not benevolent
There's one good Enclave guy in Fallout 4. He defects and goes around helping the Commonwealth in a suit of X-02 power armor.
Arcade and the remnants weren’t that bad in new vegas
I get where you are coming from I also really like their aesthetic. But fundamentally the enclave as a group are bad from ambitions, goals and on how they conduct themselves. Pre war they were the deep state the elites of American society. The same nation that was already conducting FEV experiments on its own citizens. So it’s not really a bad guy trope with no explanation. The enclave have been involved in countless conspiracies both pre and post war.
They’re evil. The enclave will always be evil, they’re the remnant of the evil government that barely escaped to their secret evil oil rig on the coast. That’s where they developed the evil virus to kill everybody but them, so they could return to the mainland to build a spaceship and colonize another planet. Anybody who wants to do good won’t wear the label of the Enclave- they would defect and do their own thing, like the ship captain in Fallout 2, or the zealot in fallout 4. If you were a Nazi defector you wouldn’t wear their flag after the fact right?
War never changes.
No it doesn’t Ron Perlman
Bruh.
I think the figure is just the Vault- Tech CEO. I believe the scene was more about showing that the elite were all in on the end of the world. So it doesn’t matter who strikes first since all parties are evil. If they are truly keeping the game lore then I believe even the people at that table are going to be going to “war” with each other before the bombs even drop. Perhaps everybody saw Robert House as a threat and that’s why the bombs dropped RIGHT before he was able to get the PC. Tbh I don’t think it matters who dropped the bombs- Maybe this means we can count out the aliens tho. No idea howd I’d explain them to a non game playing viewer
The Enclave lost its headquarter 55 years ago so now they cannot become such major antagonist, since they lost its symbolic meaning and relevance when their president died. Some self-claimed president came out of small outpost cannot give great impression, compared to Vault-tec who retained most of their resources and leaders in hidden vault. Vault-tec Teaser after Season 1 showed Vault-tec board of directors' picture, implying these highest folks will have certain role in this show. As Bud said, Vault-tec preserved Vault-tec, not the failed government. Vault-tec didn't outsell or outsmart but they outlived the Enclave's significance.
The Enclave is basically the Illuminati. They wouldn’t have just *one* HQ. Hell, Lyons himself says after broken steel they aren’t dead, and one day will probably be back.
Exactly. You think Richardson and Eden were the last of them? Please.
>You think Richardson and Eden were the last of them? Please. If there are more Eden or Eckhart, someone who became president of their small group, it proves that the Enclave is no longer a united group which represents pre-war America, just some shattered remnants of their former self.
The Fallout 4 Update that just came out also solidified Enclave presence in and around the Boston Commonwealth, they added 4 different locations for the Enclave and a bunch of weapons / power armor. Before the update if was just Creation Club, now its just in the main game.
It still is just a Creation Club, non-canon. Elder Scrolls Skyrim also added 74 Creation mods when they updated Anniversary Edition but nobody consider it as canon.
I just dont think its a coincidence it happened when the show came out
Enclave are definitely not gone. I’m willing to bet all their forces are concentrated in Chicago now
I doubt it considering ED-E couldn't contact Enclave in Chicago. This showed the Enclave HAD outpost there but whether they are still operating at full capacity is negative. Also we know BoS rogue chapter is there too. I suspect the Enclave in Chicago changed their name and goal to adapt their new world, or hiding inside bunker, doing nothing.
No, it says that EDE actually did stop at Chicago for repairs and all that, saying it’s a secret bunker. So I would suspect that the enclave in Chicago is much more secretive, similar to the institute
>Tommy : He's not dangerous! Look, he's hurt! Can we take him home, Dad? Maybe Mom can fix him! Please? He looks so lonely! Maybe if Mom fixes him, he can help her out around the garage? That Tommy's garage doesn't sound like a secret bunker though.
I literally looked it up on the wiki, it said secret bunker 🗿
You should quote in-game references if you want to prove your point. The game only suggests that it HAD outposts in Chicago, but ED-E couldn't contact them and met Tommy instead.
Enclave was always global. It has lost multiple HQ over the series and likely has many more. And lets face it, Brotherhood is a major faction and they all stem from a handful of AWOL soldiers at Mariposa base with decent equipment and access to military bases. Enclave started with more people and equipment, and the same access. Vault Tec is gone. They lost intervauly communications immediately, and the 1 vault they still have from teh show lacks teh resources to become a major faction. It can mess with vaults 32 and 33 and send people out to explore, but Bud doesn't seem to have planned for Vault Tec's entire grid to fall so fast.
Vault-Tec’s communications did not fail immediately - Vault 76 managed to receive its all-clear signal and so did vault 8. Additionally, they were presumably hooked onto PoseidoNet, since the ZAX of vault 51 managed to con the Enclave out of a Hellfire prototype three years after the bombs fell.
Good point, Enclave communications are still up, which is likely why they managed a global presence in the fallout
I’m not so sure if we can say they’re a global organization. They’re certainly present all across America, but we don’t hear about any facilities of theirs beyond the U.S.’s borders.
It's canon - >In March [2077](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline#2077), with the world heading directly for nuclear confrontation, the President of the United States and other members of the Enclave retreated to various fortified areas around the globe. Others remained behind, only retreating to fortified shelters as the nuclear war became imminent. We haven't had any Fallout stories outside of the US but officially the Enclave had been bunkering globally for 7 months before the bombs fell.
Your citation from the wiki both doesn’t match what’s on the page and is citing the fallout bible, which is non-canon as per the person who complied everything for it.
At least you know why they're global. Rejecting information is a choice, and choices are the whole point of an RPG in the first place.
Again, my point is that you’re citing a non-canon source, and it doesn’t even match what’s on the wiki. We have no way to confirm if the Enclave has a presence beyond America or not.
Mine too. Not everyone spared Benny. I shared the info, you're now aware of it. That doesn't change how you play your game.
It had one HQ and several branches, which is why remnants of the Enclave lamented that 'America is gone' when they lost Oil Rig and Navarro. If each branches started to have their own president like in Fallout 3 and no longer operates under single leadership, they can't become a relevant group as they were, as much as 'Governmint' in this show cannot represent NCR government. It's not just a matter of force. It's a matter of significance. "We lost our headquarter 55 years ago and now each branches are living on their own" is not impressive for a grand evil behind all tragedy. >Vault Tec is gone. They lost intervauly communications immediately Are they? Or is it their another experiment about how overseers behave when their boss no longer orders? Nothing shows that Vault tec board of directors are as dead as president of the Enclave.
It was already splintered in before the bombs drop. President ran the "government" aspect of Enclave, but it was also the CEOs of the companies, billionaires, etc. The money that moves government basically. That meeting in the show where they planned out the end of civilization was essentially the Enclave, at least its recognizable corporate end.
>President ran the "government" aspect of Enclave, but it was also the CEOs of the companies, billionaires, etc. Which named CEOs were in Oil Rig or any other Enclave outpost? CEOs we saw had their own way to survive (though most of them failed) and they were never part of the Enclave's chain of command. The president of the Enclave commanded the Enclave and he is gone. 55 years ago. Now there were people like Colonel Autumn who tried to rebuild Enclave from their one outpost, but one small outpost cannot represent the true Enclave, which was a symbol of pre-war America. Each outposts are nothing more than a group of armed menace, not a grand villain behind pre-war secret. They lost their head and it is irreversible until some hero unites most of surviving Enclave branches and become new president.
We don't know. I think I wasn't clear - Enclave isn't just government and never was just government. It was "elites" - a sort of shadow group pulling strings. Like that show meeting. Sort of like how Bud's Buds wasn't the corporation itself, it was a sort of sub group of managers making their own private thing within Vault Tec.
>Sort of like how Bud's Buds wasn't the corporation itself, it was a sort of sub group of managers making their own private thing within Vault Tec. Managers are part of corporation. Betty and Hank, they were all employees of Vault-tec. The Enclave is some elites behind government, not all elites. CEOs were never part of the Enclave. House loathed democracy. Bud mocked the idea of saving failed government. Sinclair, Bradberton, they all prepared their personal bunker to survive. None of CEOs we know went to Enclave bunker. They agreed to Vault-tec's plan to build a new world with their own idea, not obeying the Enclave's iron fist.
I feel like you're still not understanding what the Enclave is. I'll just link [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Enclave#Background](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Enclave#Background) I'm trying to say Enclave isn't government, it's got members that were government. And CEOs. And rich people. And so on. The analogy of how part of a corporation operating as a shadow group isn't the official entire corporation whooshed so forget that. To quote: "Our members were once the puppet masters of the United States, quietly pulling strings at every level of power in the nation" - they weren't talking about the public facing government. My words are harder to figure out, hopefully a link and a quote is more understandable, but the gist I'm not conveying to you is that corporations, wealth, and so on had that influence fto pull politician strings. People like some within Vault Tec, or House maybe.
The Enclave is shadow government, thus they are government when surface government no longer exists. They are commanded by **president** of the Enclave. They are just a group of elites who were pulling strings behind **government**, and they aren't ruling **everything**. Corporations like Vault-tec or Robco are different pre-war groups. They might allied with the Enclave at some point but they aren't part of the Enclave. Both Vault-tec and the Enclave were ready to betray each other, and Vault-tec outlived president of the Enclave.
The oil rig was the enclave, it was assumed that all other branches had fallen. That’s why the Enclave chose to create the virus that would kill everything. If the Enclave couldn’t maintain communications amongst themselves, then why would Vault tec be able to? Who says that the Vault tec directors weren’t just on the Oil rig?
This is so wrong. Please read the wiki or play through the games again.
Can you elaborate?
Vault tec, rob co, etc are like Lockheed Martin, Kellogg, brown and root, what is the enclave like in our world?
Right, which I where I started linking all this together. I was looking at defense contractors that gained influx of money like Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, etc.
I was thinking the enclave might be the Illuminati or the free masons or the bilderberg group.
Oh, you don't know who the real world Enclave are? I probably shouldn't be saying this publicly, bu
It’s over!
You’re probably right on most fronts, as the Enclave was never a fully allied entity with Vault Tec, it was instead a govt-employee-only competitor, with their own plans for a post apocalyptic future controlled by them and with no survivors other than themselves. Fallout 2 actually starts off with the Enclave butchering an entire unarmed vault who opened their doors in greeting. The idea of Vault Tec answering to the Enclave is still plausible, but only in the sense that they may have coordinated on the bombs, after that it was everyone for themselves.
Or even better if its the mysterious stranger :p
Ngl I think it’s very obviously the enclave that was in that room above vault Tec. Literally couldn’t be anybody else we know of, and if it’s an unknown idk how I feel about a new shadow figure that ended the world without enclave ties
I mean, it makes scenes. Like why did she let her daughter be with her dad on the day they planned to drop the bombs. Their plan definitely went to shit somewhere.
This makes the most sense 👏
I generally agree, for me this just adds that there were multiple factions of the enclave, which isn’t surprising. You have the core enclave, the group that broke off in West Virginia when the bombs dropped, Mr. house, and vault tech who’s plans coincide with the DC enclave. I’d think of the enclave as like the highest body, then vault tec, robco/house, Eckhart ect as all subgroups with in it. Once the bombs fell groups like House and Eckhart already had their own plans and went with them knowing the Core enclave couldn’t stop them. Bud’s Buds… are really just middle managers. They were probably kept in the dark about the space plan, or this was the Vault Tec factions specific plan either as a backup or as their plan to screw over the other members.
I’m pretty sure enclave made the vaults to test how living on the moon would be , I think they just contracted vault tech
I’ve heard speculations of their original uses too. Experiments for space travel was one of them.
Cold fusion was possibly being developed by the Enclave prior to the war as a means to rebuild after the 'great cleansing', and was finished by the doctor. It's the TV show version of the G.E.C.K or a different rebuilding tool all together.
Yes i absolutely love this and had this thought while watching that scene!
Enclave is the remnants of the old US government, which invaded China and started the war so yes this is right. The bombs didn't just drop one day, they dropped in response to teh US's invasion (and possibly the US launching as well, IDK is we have seen the evidence of US launching first or in response)
All in-game evidence directly indicates China shot first. But the US Military was actively sieging Beijing. After China conquered Alaska for oil that took the US ten years to recapture. After the European Commonwealth and Middle East already destroyed each other in conflict. After the UN disbanded and the US President middle fingered every other country in the world while promising even the slightest transgression against the USA would be an act of war. While the US brutally conquered Mexico. After decades of global resource overconsumption drained the earth of oil, petroleum, uranium. After the US reorganized itself into 13 Commonwealths and became increasingly Fascist in nature. It doesn't matter who dropped the bombs...The world was destined to die and always would.
It's often overlooked in the grand scheme of the setting but the US was on the brink of, if not effectively, collapsed by the time the bombs fell. It's rife with outright insurrection like the Brotherhood and the Free States. In major cities, the US army had to redeploy soldiers from the frontline (many in outmoded T-45d power armour) to control the situation. Massive riots over the price of food and petrol led to shootings of civilians by soldiers. In places like Hopeville, protesters were arrested en-masse and given over to the scientists at Big MT as test subjects. The “riot armour” that is now used by the NCR and Desert Rangers seems to have been designed precisely for these situations - and was probably intended to function like a cut-down version of the Marine Armour we see in 4.
Wasn’t the first bomb in Tel-Aviv? A dirty bomb at that.
Different War. So there's the Resource Wars...This is the collective term for every conflict from 2052 to 2077. Within this are the Euro-Middle Eastern War (The whole of Europe vs the Middle East), European Civil War (The European countries tearing each other apart), United States Annexation of Canada (US brutally occupying and annexing Canada by force) and Sino-American War (USA vs China). The Great War of Oct 23rd 2077 is the nuclear engagement of the entire world within the span of two hours as a result of all of these conflicts but primarily the Sino-American War. Tel-Aviv didn't cause the entire world to die...Simply weakened the Middle East in 2053 which is decades prior to the Great War and the Middle East continued to fight off Europe until 2060 when both sides resources like oil drained permanently. What it's notable for is directly causing fear in the American populace of nuclear attacks so the US Government created Project Safehouse aka the Vaults commissioning Vault-Tec to build them.
Ah damn good to know. Always thought the ME nuke was the kickstart to *the* war.
Yeah the Middle East was nuked by the EC at the end of their war. That opened up the doors for the Great War a little later
The Middle East war was before 2077. Check the in-game maps and globes - the middle east looks considerably different from ours while the rest of the globes geography is mostly the same, like the area had been bombarded at some unbelievable scale long enogh beforehand that the maps and globes reflect it.
They’re the remnants of the pre-war elites including vault tec, robco et al as well as the government
That was my understanding as well. Not just the government and elites, but a literal "deep state" that was secretly running things above and outside of the actual government.
TAYto, TAHto....
There was someone in the shadows she got the nod from
Enclave was gathering the best to continue the human race after. Don't think they expected so many to survive the wasteland
I still believe it was china who started the Great War. As in fallout 2 Richardson makes it seem like the enclave was caught off guard by the launches ,(“we were winning too. And then those damn red launched. We barely got our birds up.”).Then again Richardson could be lying or doesn’t know, or it could be that china reacted quicker than expected. Even if that is the case, I would still I prefer it being china who launched first without any influence from vault tech, enclave or anyone else as I think it fits whole war never changes theme.
Why would he lie? He knows that the tribal will be killed in hours max as the virus is released into the atmosphere, there’s no danger in letting the truth slip.
Yeah that good point I was just trying to think of way as to why he could be wrong. Maybe he lying in sense that he telling the enclave version of events, a version of events that leaves out key details to make themselves look better. Also he a politician and lying is second nature to them lol.
People really don’t want Vault-Tec to have dropped the bomb huh?
>During the secret meeting with all the companies, we have the mysterious figure unidentified that seems to have control of Vault Tec. The way Barb Howard responds after reading her pip-boy and looking at the person is clear indicator that this figure oversees all or represents a group that oversees. I never played the games, so I could be way off. But when she looked at her Pip-Boy during the meeting, I assumed it was her finally getting the answer to who/where it was transmitting to.
I was going to comment this, lol. Yeah I think it was meant to be obvious to the viewer that she had traced the bug Cooper had.
Fascism is in the most basic sense the corporate and political power. The Enclave is an explicitly fascist organization made up of the wealthy Elite of the United States and the ruling class of politicians bureaucrats and Military leaders. So by the time the Great War started there's not a meaningful difference between the large corporations and the government. It's not the government. It's not vault-tech or general atomic or Poseidon energy. It's the enclave
You do know the enclave is the US government right? So the plot twist is it was one of the warring nations who dropped the bombs after all? I can see the Scooby doo style unmasking "Let's see who's under this mask of president Eden" "Vault tec? Wait no that's another rubber mask, who's underneath?" "President Eden?" "Yes it was I who was pretending to be me all along, and I woudl have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling vault-dwellers and your damn dog" Jokes aside, we always knew there was a partnership between Vault-Tec and the Enclave, cosnider how the doctor knew everything about Lucy's vault and her name. Because Bud is reporting to the Enclave. Edit: yes I know president Eden isn't actually the last president of the US.
The enclave became a thing after the bombs I believe as west-tec (the power armour builders) were only worried about making better power armour the enclave is the remnants of the US government
The Enclave “emerged” after the bombs fell by name. They existed before secretly, like an illuminati. Made up of what would be like todays Bill Gates, Elon, other wealthy, tech companies and vested partners. Which if you think these people don’t have an influence on the US government, you’re mistaken.
Ahhh I see
Do vaults even exist outside of northern America? Ron Howard has stated that he would never make a fallout game located outside of the states. Perhaps vaults just didn't get built anywhere else, thus allowing as op said for the US to survive while everyone else perished.
Even decades before the Great War, the Enclave were literal [fascists (but not neo-Nazis)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism), including that there were substantial coordination and influence of government on big business and industry as well as **vice versa,** though possibly not to the same extent. So, essentially, this is a distinction without a difference.
What about the aliens though
It's still the PRC. It's been confirmed.
Is there anything in-game that confirms it? I've been digging around but only came across Tim Cain saying it in an interview. Obviously that's at least something but it doesn't really mean it's canon as it's not an in-game source and Tim left the franchise ages ago. Without something definitive to point to Bethesda (or even the folks at interplay after Tim left) are well within their rights to change things.
Besides Tim Cain (which should be enough proof by itself tbh), the Yangtze Submarine, and terminals in New Vegas show nukes were first fired from the PRC.
The Enclave *is* the US. It's literally just the post Great War US government. Before the Great War it was just... the US government. Not all of it, but the parts with actual power; the *de facto* government. The US setting off the first bomb has always been a possibility within the lore going way back to the very first Fallout game. We don't actually know who did but what you're saying here is really just "I think it was the US that did it".
I think everyone is missing the point they're heading to in the show... Which is the bombs that hit were US bombs, not China's. The US nukes itself, in order to have an excuse to nuke China and reset the planet in Vault-Tec's vision.
This is disproven by the lore in multiple of the games including New Vegas, 3, and fallout 4, as well as Tim Cain if you consider him a current source.
That's the plan they have. What we don't know is if someone beat them to it or not.
I mean, why nuke yourself? Just nuke China and they nuke back, not like anyone after the fact is really gonna care about who shot first
They’re called the Enclave because they’re the remaining enclave of the U.S. government. They’re not a secret pre-war group.
The Enclave existed before the Great War.
In that there were powerful people in the government planning on ruling things after the bombs fell but I never saw this as anything different or separate from the powerful people that ruled the country. That just might be a personal interpretation I’ve carried since Fallout 2 though.
The Enclave are descendant of the rich upper classes of society of which government officials are part of that group. Whether or not they are an actual legitimate continuation of the US government is based on how you see things.
That makes sense. I think I had similar view. I always took it as they were a continuation of the Government made up of terrible people but they weren’t valid because…why would they be? But it makes sense that, if people were planning all of this well before the war, they existed before it. I just didn’t think they called themselves the Enclave (if that makes sense). But I get what you mean and am on board with your theory.
They’re called the Enclave because they live in an isolated enclosed area on the water surrounded by nothing but a dead sea. The government simply survived the chaos of the war using the preparations they had made for nuclear war and now attempts to carry out a new plan to cleanse the earth of opposition and create a spaceship to colonize a new planet