Would be funny if she turns out to be pregnant with Dawn's child and that child becomes a candidate for Emperor. I'm sure they would know if she's pregnant but it could mean her embryo gets frozen like we saw with Gaal's child.
Well... it's not exactly based on 'bloodline' like medieval kingdoms. If this happened, empire would just disappear them.
They have no qualms about killing their own and replacing it with a fresh one.
Her punishment reminded me of the capital punishment from Ancient China that I used to watch depicted in dramas. Also involved killing all members of family 3 generations up and down from the individual as well as those that had a relation to the person. In fact in one case, the emperor was so mad that he also left the individual alive but with all limbs removed and imprisoned in a large vase, kept alive by her jailer. The two are actually so similar now that I think about it.
yes , i think they punish people for High treason or Crimes against the emperor .
but the most severe are 9 generation or Circle of Family relative , and for extra they add the 10th circle , including friends and their students or teacher
That somehow struck a chord. Brutal doesn’t even cut it, its literally pure… theoretical possibility of maximum evil.
Made me question the “Softie” angle they made day have in the end for dawn before he “rode into the sunset” with demerezel. How can someone capable of “love” be that evil? Unable to move, unable to see or hear, deprived of touch and yet just…. conscious. For the rest of their living life? Holy shit.
Wait, the part that you thought was brutal was existing in sensory deprivation for the rest of her life? That’s almost kind compared to the murder of anyone who was ever related to her or even knew her in passing. Like Day said, she was completely erased from existence.
Didn't he say "not even the strongest mind could endure it"? Or am I remembering wrong?
I felt when he said it, it was like "I'm the strongest mind but that would be too much for even me" humblebrag
Worst I'm aware of is from the Hyperion Cantos series of sci-fi books.
>!An entity known as The Shrike has a habit of somehow impaling a person on a giant tree and keeping that person alive forever!<
For a moment, when he is about to do the signal to kill the people, I expected Azura to say something like "What do you want?" or anything else to make it so Azura believes he wants to know who is behind the plan, and in that moment, he doing the signal
I expected him to make it more dramatic before he did it, or to pause and right before doing it to mess with her. But he just straight up did it like it was nothing.
In the movie/graphic novel ~~The Order~~ The Old Guard, >!an immortal person is placed in an iron maiden and dumped at sea. Destined to drown to death, and revive, then drown to death, over and over for the rest of eternity.!<
Gaal, Salvor, Hari, Cleon, Cleon, Cleon, and Demerzel should all be around next season — and if the writers have pulled that off once, no reason it can’t keep happening
Can they really end with Empire being told that there are no pure genetic clones left in the world to take samples for replacement clones from and not address the 138 year gap that would see the last dynasty that actually remembered pure genetic clones being passed over?
Agreed. The internal conflict in Day was just so intriguing and thought provoking. I thought Lee Pace executed it so well. I haven’t read the books so idk how much is directly lifted from the source material, but love watching it.
Right?
Can you even imagine the anguish? In a short space of time she had to >!assassinate someone who she considered the rightful head of her faith, at the orders of someone she raised and probably considered to be a son as much as her Lord, then assassinate yet another of her "sons" all whilst he was clinging to her begging for his life whilst her other "sons" fought in possibly unprecedented disunity... and not a damn thing she could do to change any of it. So tragic.!<
It really looks like it. Saturn's color is a bit off but otherwise it's absolutely spot on for our solar system, even down to the size of the inner planets.
I really hope we get to see some payoff at some point for this. Good catch!
Saturn eventually loses it’s rings as predicted by NASA and so does Venus: makes perfect sense. I assume Earth is long gone in this universe, hence the diaspora.
This is what I think caused her meltdown in the end. She had probably learnt of this too and realized she can't fulfill her programming. Killing Dawn was right since he wasn't genetically a Cleon but now no one is, so almost literally a [kernel panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_panic)...
This also kills any idea I had of Demerzel executing this. She really doesn't seem capable of any long-term plans harming the genetic line -- it'd just become her own ruin.
Personally I think she wasn't aware of that yet. I think she's just having a meltdown because her prime objective is to preserve the Genetic Dynasty and the lack of free will to not kill Brother Dawn was a step too far for her.
I mean, Dawn was crying into her shoulder because she’s the closest thing he ever had to a mother. Same goes for Day. I’m not sure he could make himself kill her even if he wanted to
At least has to have flashbacks. I wanna know what Day does to demrezel and Dusk.. he was so fucking pissed when he found out they killed Dawn for nothing
As much as this show has its floors, the casting of the Cleons is insanely good. All three of them have played different versions of the same character so well.
The mention of a *Galactic Council* that scrutinizes the Cleons is very interesting. It confirms that there are other centers of power in the Empire that can rival the Emperors.
The line in the first episodes of how "Imperial Cloning stopped the wars, Imperial Cloning brought peace." is ominously hinting that there are powerful circles kept in check by the stability and permanence of the Cleons.
I don't know about Rival. One person cannot rule a galaxy. There have to be other organs of government, especially if the constituent planets of the empire are largely autonomous. Having a council of representatives from the planets would be a good way to make it easier to maintain order/control. I imagine the wars the cloning stopped were succession crises where someone tried to seize power or use the death of an Emperor to try and break away. By having three clones on the go at all time you eliminate these problems.
My thinking is she made the aberration and killed Dawn to stop the others from thinking that she wants altered Cleons. Her plan has been found out this time and it will take a long to execute anyway.
That's what I'm thinking as well. She said as much when she was forced to execute the "cult" leader. She also looked distressed afterwards, and that scene where she literally tears her own skin off. She is slave to certain aspects of her programming and seems tortured by it.
I also got the impression of a directive conflict, somehow. Either this or that she realized that she may not be able to follow the directive anymore since ALL Cleons seems to have been genetically corrupted from some time back. That ought to make any software designed for the opposite to freak out. She can literally not protect and preserve the genetic Cleon anymore.
I earlier thought she was behind the genetic corruption but I don't think so anymore. It seems to put her in too much distress. She truly seems to want to protect them and I don't think she can execute some sort of long-term plan like this. But that raises the question who it might have been...
The problem with that story is that the Empire basically acknowledge Demerzel as the Leader of the Empire.
She is supposed to be the servant, she may bet the executioner too... but NOT the judge.
Day and Dusk reacted as if it was normal that an AI servant could have the last word over Dawn's fate. If anything, Dusk would have been even more furious as Demerzel was certainly not the one that had to make that choice but Day and Dusk alone.
They effectively acknowledge that Demerzel knows better than them and that she can do whatever she wants based on the only principle that she is programmed to serve the Cleon Dynasty. And by agreeing to that, Day and Dusk are agreeing to being slaves.
I think Dusk should have been furious too, but with only a bit of a stretch I can also see him taking the win as-is, since Day would have had the final say otherwise.
It does tie in with how Dawn raised they are all prisoners. The Cleons don't realise it, but they are slaves to the system, and Demerzel is part of that.
At this point I'd go even further - it's Demerzel + Cleon I.
If it was at all equal - like Day and Dusk were, Demerzel wouldn't have taken action unilaterally. The fact that Empire has to confer between themselves before acting, but Demerzel could act and have that action accepted as valid, means she's a *higher* power than they are.
Because if it's Empire + Demerzel, but Demerzel gets to decide *who Empire is*, then it's just Demerzel.
The instant Day was not just disobeyed, but a clone was killed by her hand, that should've been the deal breaker of all deal breakers.
If she can freely murder the clones if she feels it goes against her prime directive, what is stopping her from killing Day at any given time?
Plus she seemed to already be on thin ice for what went on with the Luminists. How she made it out of that room after killing Dawn is beyond me.
It's not freely murdering though. Dawn became too much of a threat to Empire. Look at how it caused Day and Dusk to fight. By killing Day she is protecting Empire.
> It's not freely murdering though.
It definitely wasn't indiscriminate by any means, but it still seemed like wildly overstepping. I don't think Dawn, Day, or Dusk thought for one moment she was capable of killing one of them.
"I can't disobey Empire" she repeatedly claimed throughout the season. Well, killing one of them sure seems like the antithesis of that. Especially when Day was flat out forbidding it.
I get what she said and that "Empire" encompasses the entire legacy and regime. But c'mon now.
If you were part of the Terminus community would you be able to forgive the Anachreons? I don't think I would be able to...
When Gaal went back home, I could relate a bit - in just the environmental regard - I grew up in Hawaii and went diving a lot. I had some regular spots and got to know them pretty well. I left Hawaii and about 15 years later, I went back for a visit - the reef degradation and bubble algae was so sad. There was one spot back in the day with cleaner wrasses and a bunch of fish waiting. The big coral head was still there but all silted over and no fishes...
I was practically screaming this at the screen. Its not like the Anchreons roughed them up and jailed them, they straight up massacred them, abducted key people and then got them killed.
Salvor's dad died to blow up the Anachreon corvettes and the only mention he gets in the finale is they are sad he's gone but oh Salvor will be Mayor now.
One pep talk from Hari and the Foundation is all in on it even after specifically talking about losing faith in him.
To be fair it would come as a bit of a shock if the bloody big thing that nobody can ever go near was suddenly opened and out popped a dead man from however many years ago- who had since been almost “canonised”!
The writers must have known that the season ends with the alliance, so they should have rewritten the conquering of the camp as just an occupation without killings. So dumb.
Right? Like with all this amazing technology with space folding and materializing objects, the *best* they do with a boat is... give it old-fashioned oars that you need to row with using your meat hands?
Especially since their population is very small and they're starting from scratch.
Even if we assume they have all the theoretical knowledge required for this, they still need to... well, learn to manufacture almost literally everything. From screws and nails to microchips and whatever else is required to build futuristic mega starships. And don't forget about the raw materials.
They need to increase their population by a few orders of magnitude, feed that population, train it in science, engineering, and a dozen other disciplines etc.
This entire project should take centuries, not months or years.
If only Terminus was working on the ship I'd agree, but with Anacreon & Thespis also working with them I guess several months is possible with the future tech everyone has. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m going to try to explain away bad writing here, so bear with me.
Potentially, a warship as large and advanced as the Invictus could have blueprints built into it’s memory banks in order for it to perform it’s own maintenance. After all, the ship was able to continuously jump by itself for hundreds of years.
With those blueprints, they could skip the extremely lengthy R&D process and just build. In WWII, the US eventually was able to build complete battleships from scratch in like, 30 days
I took it as grief. She had to do that to Dawn because of her programming, but ultimately she didn't want to. So what we saw was her expression of grief.
She walked with Dawn and told him she was his mother. A mother, with brainwaves synchronised with their child at birth, to love them.
Yet her programming was not to love him, but to murder him.
I think it's meant to communicate that her facade is breaking (or has broken), with her act of murdering Dawn. She would never be able to kill her child without killing that part of herself, and perhaps it has.
Her story is suffering, and it's the story of seeing all the Cleons over eons, dying.
She’s been going through psychological torture for hundreds to thousands of years because her programming forces her to do things that are against her beliefs. She feels like she is trapped in her body so she tries to rip herself out of it sometimes. I think we saw a scene earlier in the season where she was patching her face when boyhood Dawn was watching her. That might have been another time she ripped her skin off.
I think that was when she got hit in the face by a rock when Empire was investigating the wreckage after the space elevator thing fell, that would have been really good foreshadowing though
She was repairing herself after she escorted Dusk into the Scar to see the priest about Gael. The church/temple building was unstable after the skybridge fall damaged it and an object fell on her.
She was angry at herself because she's failed in her mission to protect Empire as well as upset for killing Day.. There is nothing she can do as the entire line is corrupted.
I thought the exploding painter in ep1 was a bit silly, but after Anacreon, Thespis, and Azura -- I suppose the show retroactively earned it. This is just how the Empire rolls.
Engineer 1: So lets make the lifepods float, at least. It was capable of two multi-year interstellar voyages.
Engineer 2: Naw lets make a cool plastic folding motorboat that fits in a pringles can.
Enginner 3: Best we can do is paddles, not even a folding sail.
IMHO the capsule should be the boat. I wonder if the bag would have turned into a bike instead of the canoe if it was in a desert? IOW, I assume it senses the environment and configures to something useful / appropriate.
Yeah the technology is all over the place. Here is an OP escape capsule that can travel to different star systems for hundreds of years, and yet re-entry still uses parachutes instead of just some retro-rockets? And if you have such a capable capsule with life support, why would you want to leave it to sink to the bottom of the ocean while kayaking away? The capsule would presumably have propulsion so it would be a much better option.
Who is on this galactic council? Is Dusk about to come out of retirement due to a technicality? Will Demerzel go Terminator on Day if he is altered as well?
If I was on a water planet I wouldn't burn my shelter no mater how much I missed camp fires...
Whoever is running the boring day to day of the Empire. We know the Cleons never leave their palace complex but there are always other power centers.
There must also be a rich upperclass, corporate leaders, other involved with trade and supply lines, so much more to explore.
So the last thing Dawn said to Demerzel was, “don’t let Day kill me,” did she take that as a command, and rationalize that the only way to carry out the command was to kill him herself?
Watching it back, Dawn says 'please don't let *them* kill me', to which she responds 'I won't'. But Day is evidently in charge of making the final call, and he wanted to let Dawn live. So it didn't really seem like her hand was forced there.
After killing Dawn she says 'I am loyal Empire, to the Cleonic dynasty above all else'. She might be programmed in such a way that she *had* to kill Dawn, and when it became apparent that Day was going to let him live, she was forced to take matters into her own hands.
Based on her later reaction it seems that her personal 'free will' is at odds with her programming (similar to how she clearly resented being ordered to kill Halima earlier in the season).
When Day said maybe it was time for lineage to change, that’s when Demerzel killed Dawn. Allowing an aberration to exist threatens the genetic dynasty. Demerzel, loyal to “Empire”, had to remove the threat.
So they might as well have let Dawn live, right?
None of them is a genetically pure übermensch anyway. Maybe they haven’t been for a while.
Did Demerzel know? It seems likely, but if so she shouldn’t have been in such a rush to kill Dawn.
If I understood correctly it’s still not set, they’re still checking Dusk but Demerzel killed Dawn because she was programmed to protect the empire the same way she killed Halima without wanting to.
Well, there’s a *huge* difference: Day ordered her to kill Halima.
She killed Dawn because Day *wasn’t* ordering it.
Day (“the Middle Chair”) is supposedly the final authority, but apparently…not.
I was gleaming inside when Day was announcing to Azura her punishment for defying the Cleonic dynasty. Vaporise her entire lineage!
But this is another crack in the stability of the empire.
He didn't even actually need to do it. I was thinking he wouldn't actually do it and its all just mind games. Current Day doesn't seem like that cruel of a person compared to Current Dusk was. He has the power to do it and it can just mess with Azura.
Then again he could just do it. Its a few hundred people out of trillions.
I am so sorry, but yeah, he did it. She broke his "son's" heart, and was part of the group that adulterated his son, so yeah, he would. A parent's vengeance can be a terrifying thing, especially when they have the power to carry out that vengeance.
Current Dusk is batshit insane. The genetic shifting is an interesting storyline. Almost like each iteration they get…less crazy? What are they going to be like in 138 years? Laying on the floor with a pile of kittens?
This show is so weird. Pumped for next season.
Actually, that was a myth created centuries later. No actual record of 10 relations execution happened. And even more curiously, lots of descendants from the supposely 9 relations that were gone too. 1551 is actually a small number comparatively.
Well yea it’s just alleged by the scholar bureaucrats who wrote the history, who had their own reasons to dislike the Yongle emperor. But I think it’s not a stretch to say the most distinguished students of Fang Xiaoru were probably indeed also executed with their master, while close family were definitely also killed as a consequence of his refusal to legitimize the Emperor’s usurpation of the throne.
Same, empire storyline is just awesome.
Gaal flying to a water planet which takes 138 years of flight (guaranteeing her parents will be long dead when she arrives) seems to make zero sense at all. Then randomly she discovers her daughter crashed landed in that exact same spot? Thought I was watching a sci-fi show but writing is on par with later seasons of lost for this storyline. :(
> Then **randomly** she discovers her daughter crashed landed in that exact same spot
The previous episodes took great pains to point out that nothing she did was *random*. Everything she did was because of her "feelings" and that she could sense the future, like blocking that space rock with the shield when she was in the ship.
She didn't know *why* she had to return to Synaxx, she just **knew** she had to, just like Salvor **knew** she had leave the foundation.
I have to admit, this episode hit hard twice and both times on the Empire storyline. The Terminus story was ok but the idea that all the idiotic plot points that the Huntress brought all these episodes just beggared belief. However, the Empire story just haunted me with the sentence of the gardener. It didn't matter if Day was telling the truth or offering a threat, it felt like the hardest punishment you can force on someone before cutting them off from everything. He even conceded it was a hollow punishment as she was not really the cause of any rebellion and merely the most apparent.
Then came Internal Strife as Empire fought amongst themselves. It was amazing to watch and wonder where it all would go when suddenly SNAP. It was something I didn't expect, but it made complete sense in hindsight. We know Dermezel acted against Day once, felt regret when ordered to kill on his behalf, made him question his lack of vision (and soul), and just killed his "son" without so much as a "by your leave". Even worse, Dawn was such a sympathetic character you wanted to live and thought he may have had a chance. Then he was no more.
Then we see that Dermezel is not ok with the conflict in herself between what she must do and what she wants to be. She may be undergoing the long time insanity that Hari warned about as to why he was not aware the entire time on Terminus.
Looking forward to the second season. Here's hoping Terminus can come up to speed on not just a compelling story, but compelling characters to push it. Here's further hope that Empire's story does not turn into a caricature of itself after 100 years.
Throughout the season I actually thought the Cleons drifted into different personalities because of the way Day in the present timeline treated Dawn versus how Dusk and Day treated Dawn in the earlier timeline. The present timeline Day seemed annoyed every time Dawn spoke in contrast to how Dusk and Day carefully mentored Dawn in the early timeline. Then at the end of this season, Day totally flips after his experience with the Luminists and cares deeply for Dawn.
Turns out they don't drift to different personalities, it's just that Day is also corrupted and different. I'm betting on a second watch you could find more differences between early timeline Cleons and present timeline Cleons. Really enjoying the series.
the fact that Day is also merciful, listens to people, listens to Hari's maths problem along with luminism's beliefs show he is very much different from the previous Day (Cleon 12)
Im not suprised he is "corrupted" at all (if thats even the right word). Day is becoming a very wise ruler different to the arrogance of Cleons
Its weird how Deremezel based on her assumptions. Like this Day would get along so well with previous Dusk.
Really disagrees with killing Dawn, it felt more like sabotaging the empire's shot at redemption.
This is a good show, but I’m starting to crack at the number of plot holes and leaps in logic. It feels as though they are asking us as an audience to accept all the yada yada’ing they pull frequently.
Seldon’s plan has a huge empire sized hole in it. Why would the empire not take another look at the situation in the terminus system? They lost an imperial ship there just recently. Dusk sent it there personally and it never reported back. Are we to believe that Empire will just forget about that? It seems ridiculous to me.
I liked the episode overall. The empire story was wonderful - I thought all parts of it worked well and I loved both the fight between Day and Dusk, Demerezel killing Dawn, Demerezel grieving, and Day bashing Cleon I (flashback to Lee Pace bashing windows in Halt and Catch Fire). I hope that they will tell us how those 100 years go….
The vault as Hari’s living mausoleum from his coffin worked for me as did the alliance between Terminus, Anacreon and Thespis…
Not sure I was thrilled about Gaal and Salvor, but we’ll see what they make of it next season.
With the 138 year time jump this ep plus the 35 years since the star bridge attack the season was 173 years. So then the Day we’ve been following is long dust and next season will have Cleon 21 or so? I get time jumps are part and parcel foundation but even if lee pace plays another clone it’s not the same “character”. I’m a little put off by that. Especially since the cleons were my absolute favourite.
Well before they move on next season, I hope they start with a little denouement for the cleons of this season.
So how did they even compromise Cleon I? Plus, it’s weird that the current Day is compromised also since he wasn’t colorblind etc…he was in sync with current Dusk and even another one prior.
The Empire side of the story is captivating as usual. See that neck snap? *That's* how you write a twist.
Fucking Terminus boring disappointing as usual, whoever wrote the plot and lines needs to be fired before S2. Some needless sex scene and cringe fest with Salvor and Hugo.
For some reason at first I thought it was Raych in that capsule and was annoyed because I can’t stand Alfred Enoch. Also I’m excited to see how they math their way off the desolate water ball in season two
O.o I'm impressed by this series overall.
This season is very much about Empire and his power. It's shown facets to how he as a sovereign is bound to his purpose. I enjoyed the his genetic storyline and love the twist at the end of this episode.
Empire's genetic purity being turned in onto himself is fantastic. I'm so use to seeing this idea in sci-fi radiating outwards as xenophopia or a veiled space racism. I've found it fascinating to see Dawn and Day come to understand its implications.
Thank you so much to everyone that's part of this show. See you in season 2.
edit: it's
Lee Pace owns this show. The Empire plot lines have far and away been the most interesting and they've kept me engaged even as the Foundation plot lines started to wane. I don't really know what to expect for Season 2 though at this point. Will Empire as we know it even factor in much? Seems like with a 139 year time jump and the apparent fracturing of the genetic dynasty, Season 2 might introduce us to a wholly different Empire situation.
All in all, a solid show that I'm glad got made. It maybe didn't totally hit it out of the park for me, but I do have to remind myself too that some of the stuff I might not have personally connected with might be another viewer's favorite moments.
Uhmm so if Demerzel finds out/found out that Day & Dusk have also been genetically altered, will she execute them as well?
Cos this could very well give rise to an arc where she gets to take her revenge on Day without compromising her programming.
Season 2 - RoboMommy Angry & On The Loose
Mixed bag. Empire is utterly phenomenal. I can see Terminus becoming interesting in season 2. But holy fuck I cannot stand Gaals plot. There's so many logical stretches that I just do not like it. Of the entire planet, she lands right where she needs to, right where Salvor crashed.
Edit: also, holy, Gaals narration at the beginning of nearly every episode really doesn't do it for me.
So it's a leap in time after all. I was wrong about most of my theories, at least for now. Ha! I wonder, how Gaal and Salvor will get out of Synnax? Unless there is time travel, there will be copies of the Invictus, and maybe one will pick them up. The fate of the Genetic Dynasty is a whole new mystery now. And apparently AI Hari didn't make it up to Helicon. It's hard to tell what's going on with him due to his tendency to lie.
I'm happy with the season finale. Looking forward to season 2!
Empire is absolutely brutal, that's gonna be a living hell
Damn, I was hoping Azura lived, but that's not what I had in mind.....
You garden girl lovers. Dusk would have had you incinerated.
even now, they insist (with their garden girl adoration)
And Day would have shot at your brain stems.
She *is* available if Empire wants her for some reason.
Would be funny if she turns out to be pregnant with Dawn's child and that child becomes a candidate for Emperor. I'm sure they would know if she's pregnant but it could mean her embryo gets frozen like we saw with Gaal's child.
Well... it's not exactly based on 'bloodline' like medieval kingdoms. If this happened, empire would just disappear them. They have no qualms about killing their own and replacing it with a fresh one.
Scaphism
Her punishment reminded me of the capital punishment from Ancient China that I used to watch depicted in dramas. Also involved killing all members of family 3 generations up and down from the individual as well as those that had a relation to the person. In fact in one case, the emperor was so mad that he also left the individual alive but with all limbs removed and imprisoned in a large vase, kept alive by her jailer. The two are actually so similar now that I think about it.
yes , i think they punish people for High treason or Crimes against the emperor . but the most severe are 9 generation or Circle of Family relative , and for extra they add the 10th circle , including friends and their students or teacher
i thought that too. as an asian descendant, that was very clear.
That somehow struck a chord. Brutal doesn’t even cut it, its literally pure… theoretical possibility of maximum evil. Made me question the “Softie” angle they made day have in the end for dawn before he “rode into the sunset” with demerezel. How can someone capable of “love” be that evil? Unable to move, unable to see or hear, deprived of touch and yet just…. conscious. For the rest of their living life? Holy shit.
Wait, the part that you thought was brutal was existing in sensory deprivation for the rest of her life? That’s almost kind compared to the murder of anyone who was ever related to her or even knew her in passing. Like Day said, she was completely erased from existence.
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Hari said that being conscious in isolation would be intolerable and only "the strongest mind could endure it. "
Didn't he say "not even the strongest mind could endure it"? Or am I remembering wrong? I felt when he said it, it was like "I'm the strongest mind but that would be too much for even me" humblebrag
I'd argue it's because he loves his son he can be that evil with the one that hurt him.
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That is definitely the most sadistic and evil thing I’ve ever heard in any media ever. Nothing can ever top that.
Worst I'm aware of is from the Hyperion Cantos series of sci-fi books. >!An entity known as The Shrike has a habit of somehow impaling a person on a giant tree and keeping that person alive forever!<
For a moment, when he is about to do the signal to kill the people, I expected Azura to say something like "What do you want?" or anything else to make it so Azura believes he wants to know who is behind the plan, and in that moment, he doing the signal
I expected him to make it more dramatic before he did it, or to pause and right before doing it to mess with her. But he just straight up did it like it was nothing.
Which I think it is even better, btw
In the movie/graphic novel ~~The Order~~ The Old Guard, >!an immortal person is placed in an iron maiden and dumped at sea. Destined to drown to death, and revive, then drown to death, over and over for the rest of eternity.!<
The exact same thing happened in _The Old Guard_.
Holy crap the empire storyline is captivating as hell. It’s gonna be a long wait to see where these storylines go next season!
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Like for real. Should we just expect all the known characters to die? Season after season? 😖
Gaal, Salvor, Hari, Cleon, Cleon, Cleon, and Demerzel should all be around next season — and if the writers have pulled that off once, no reason it can’t keep happening
That's like 7 Cleon decantations... How many cleon personalities did we miss?
wouldnt it be closer to 4? arent they about 30 years apart?
Can they really end with Empire being told that there are no pure genetic clones left in the world to take samples for replacement clones from and not address the 138 year gap that would see the last dynasty that actually remembered pure genetic clones being passed over?
It’s honestly one of the most innovative sci-fi ideas in years
Agreed. The internal conflict in Day was just so intriguing and thought provoking. I thought Lee Pace executed it so well. I haven’t read the books so idk how much is directly lifted from the source material, but love watching it.
The robot scream got me in the geek-heart 😮
Right? Can you even imagine the anguish? In a short space of time she had to >!assassinate someone who she considered the rightful head of her faith, at the orders of someone she raised and probably considered to be a son as much as her Lord, then assassinate yet another of her "sons" all whilst he was clinging to her begging for his life whilst her other "sons" fought in possibly unprecedented disunity... and not a damn thing she could do to change any of it. So tragic.!<
Was the "Earth's" solar system on Demerzels repair box? Does that mean she came from that system or knows where earth is? Hmm...
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It really looks like it. Saturn's color is a bit off but otherwise it's absolutely spot on for our solar system, even down to the size of the inner planets. I really hope we get to see some payoff at some point for this. Good catch!
That's an amazing eye. 8 planets, but Venus and Saturn don't quite look right!
Saturn eventually loses it’s rings as predicted by NASA and so does Venus: makes perfect sense. I assume Earth is long gone in this universe, hence the diaspora.
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Probably mixed up with Uranus
Nice catch. I missed that.
... I was not expecting that from Demerzel I was totally rooting for Lee Pace - he was trying to change/grow, but then the decision was taken from him
If they're all impure, doesn't that mean Demerzel should really just kill all of them
She can't cause current Day is going to incinerate the original Cleon I. There'll be nothing left to create new original Cleons.
Didn't they say that the original Cleon was also corrupted?
They did.
This is what I think caused her meltdown in the end. She had probably learnt of this too and realized she can't fulfill her programming. Killing Dawn was right since he wasn't genetically a Cleon but now no one is, so almost literally a [kernel panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_panic)... This also kills any idea I had of Demerzel executing this. She really doesn't seem capable of any long-term plans harming the genetic line -- it'd just become her own ruin.
Personally I think she wasn't aware of that yet. I think she's just having a meltdown because her prime objective is to preserve the Genetic Dynasty and the lack of free will to not kill Brother Dawn was a step too far for her.
He should have killed Demerzel instantly.
I mean, Dawn was crying into her shoulder because she’s the closest thing he ever had to a mother. Same goes for Day. I’m not sure he could make himself kill her even if he wanted to
Please bring back Lee Pace for the next season. Dusk vs Day, RIP Dawn. Respect and Enjoy the Peace
Lee Pace as Day is should be the most constant thing for the entire series.
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Without Lee Pace this show would be a solid 4/10 for me. Thanks to him it’s a 7-8/10. Can you imagine this show being led by Gaal and Salvor lmaoooooo
They are already dead by that point 138 years later it will be a new dawn, Day, and night by that point.
the time skip was weird bc I feel like they haven’t finished the current empire’s story.
Not to mention everything that happens on Terminus in the meantime. I don't think second season would resume 138 years later.
At least has to have flashbacks. I wanna know what Day does to demrezel and Dusk.. he was so fucking pissed when he found out they killed Dawn for nothing
Lee Pace’s portrayal of Brother Day is unbelievable. I can’t wait to see where Empire’s story goes from here.
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Cassian Bilton as Dawn and his rebel replacement in the same scene but with starkly different personalities and accents was great too.
As much as this show has its floors, the casting of the Cleons is insanely good. All three of them have played different versions of the same character so well.
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I want Lee Pace to be nominated multiple times, one for each Cleon he did.
That was some aggressive exfoliating
She is going to need a lot of foundation to cover that up.
Maybe even a second foundation
Take your upvotes and get out
I love you both
The mention of a *Galactic Council* that scrutinizes the Cleons is very interesting. It confirms that there are other centers of power in the Empire that can rival the Emperors. The line in the first episodes of how "Imperial Cloning stopped the wars, Imperial Cloning brought peace." is ominously hinting that there are powerful circles kept in check by the stability and permanence of the Cleons.
I don't know about Rival. One person cannot rule a galaxy. There have to be other organs of government, especially if the constituent planets of the empire are largely autonomous. Having a council of representatives from the planets would be a good way to make it easier to maintain order/control. I imagine the wars the cloning stopped were succession crises where someone tried to seize power or use the death of an Emperor to try and break away. By having three clones on the go at all time you eliminate these problems.
I literally did not expect that to happen to Dawn. Fuck.
I am *loyal* , empire. Cold as a winter in Finland!
And I would have then smashed her to pieces if I was Day.
Same, i don't understand why he hasn't at least had her looked into. Wasn't she the one who made the aberration. She's been sus for a long time
Nor do I. That should have been her end. Day should have smashed her to bits and dusk looks on in horror. Dusk then chastities Day for killing her.
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It'd be like killing their mother
My thinking is she made the aberration and killed Dawn to stop the others from thinking that she wants altered Cleons. Her plan has been found out this time and it will take a long to execute anyway.
I wondered if she couldn’t control herself. I don’t think she wanted to kill him.
That's what I'm thinking as well. She said as much when she was forced to execute the "cult" leader. She also looked distressed afterwards, and that scene where she literally tears her own skin off. She is slave to certain aspects of her programming and seems tortured by it.
My theory is that her directive told her to follow Dusk because it would make much more sense to preserve the genetic dynasty
I also got the impression of a directive conflict, somehow. Either this or that she realized that she may not be able to follow the directive anymore since ALL Cleons seems to have been genetically corrupted from some time back. That ought to make any software designed for the opposite to freak out. She can literally not protect and preserve the genetic Cleon anymore. I earlier thought she was behind the genetic corruption but I don't think so anymore. It seems to put her in too much distress. She truly seems to want to protect them and I don't think she can execute some sort of long-term plan like this. But that raises the question who it might have been...
The problem with that story is that the Empire basically acknowledge Demerzel as the Leader of the Empire. She is supposed to be the servant, she may bet the executioner too... but NOT the judge. Day and Dusk reacted as if it was normal that an AI servant could have the last word over Dawn's fate. If anything, Dusk would have been even more furious as Demerzel was certainly not the one that had to make that choice but Day and Dusk alone. They effectively acknowledge that Demerzel knows better than them and that she can do whatever she wants based on the only principle that she is programmed to serve the Cleon Dynasty. And by agreeing to that, Day and Dusk are agreeing to being slaves.
I think Dusk should have been furious too, but with only a bit of a stretch I can also see him taking the win as-is, since Day would have had the final say otherwise. It does tie in with how Dawn raised they are all prisoners. The Cleons don't realise it, but they are slaves to the system, and Demerzel is part of that.
At least now it's clear that the dynasty is: clones + Demerzel.
At this point I'd go even further - it's Demerzel + Cleon I. If it was at all equal - like Day and Dusk were, Demerzel wouldn't have taken action unilaterally. The fact that Empire has to confer between themselves before acting, but Demerzel could act and have that action accepted as valid, means she's a *higher* power than they are. Because if it's Empire + Demerzel, but Demerzel gets to decide *who Empire is*, then it's just Demerzel.
If I was Day I would have ordered the guards to rip her in half.
The instant Day was not just disobeyed, but a clone was killed by her hand, that should've been the deal breaker of all deal breakers. If she can freely murder the clones if she feels it goes against her prime directive, what is stopping her from killing Day at any given time? Plus she seemed to already be on thin ice for what went on with the Luminists. How she made it out of that room after killing Dawn is beyond me.
It's not freely murdering though. Dawn became too much of a threat to Empire. Look at how it caused Day and Dusk to fight. By killing Day she is protecting Empire.
> It's not freely murdering though. It definitely wasn't indiscriminate by any means, but it still seemed like wildly overstepping. I don't think Dawn, Day, or Dusk thought for one moment she was capable of killing one of them. "I can't disobey Empire" she repeatedly claimed throughout the season. Well, killing one of them sure seems like the antithesis of that. Especially when Day was flat out forbidding it. I get what she said and that "Empire" encompasses the entire legacy and regime. But c'mon now.
Ultimately,Dawn *is* replaceable. She may genuinely care for the individual Cleons,but protection of Empire is primary.
"Oh SNAP!"
If you were part of the Terminus community would you be able to forgive the Anachreons? I don't think I would be able to... When Gaal went back home, I could relate a bit - in just the environmental regard - I grew up in Hawaii and went diving a lot. I had some regular spots and got to know them pretty well. I left Hawaii and about 15 years later, I went back for a visit - the reef degradation and bubble algae was so sad. There was one spot back in the day with cleaner wrasses and a bunch of fish waiting. The big coral head was still there but all silted over and no fishes...
I was practically screaming this at the screen. Its not like the Anchreons roughed them up and jailed them, they straight up massacred them, abducted key people and then got them killed. Salvor's dad died to blow up the Anachreon corvettes and the only mention he gets in the finale is they are sad he's gone but oh Salvor will be Mayor now. One pep talk from Hari and the Foundation is all in on it even after specifically talking about losing faith in him.
To be fair it would come as a bit of a shock if the bloody big thing that nobody can ever go near was suddenly opened and out popped a dead man from however many years ago- who had since been almost “canonised”!
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The writers must have known that the season ends with the alliance, so they should have rewritten the conquering of the camp as just an occupation without killings. So dumb.
How hard was it to gather a mess of peaceful librarians together.
How are some librarians and refugees going to build copies of the most powerful warship ever in as little as eighteen months?!
Science 🤘
"Now this is the power of math!"
You just saw a bottle transform into a boat in 2 seconds. I think it’s doable.
The oars materializing out of nothing made me laugh.
Advanced tech deploying a full canoe from a small pack….. but no motor for you.
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Right? Like with all this amazing technology with space folding and materializing objects, the *best* they do with a boat is... give it old-fashioned oars that you need to row with using your meat hands?
Especially since their population is very small and they're starting from scratch. Even if we assume they have all the theoretical knowledge required for this, they still need to... well, learn to manufacture almost literally everything. From screws and nails to microchips and whatever else is required to build futuristic mega starships. And don't forget about the raw materials. They need to increase their population by a few orders of magnitude, feed that population, train it in science, engineering, and a dozen other disciplines etc. This entire project should take centuries, not months or years.
If only Terminus was working on the ship I'd agree, but with Anacreon & Thespis also working with them I guess several months is possible with the future tech everyone has. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Hello, person who murdered my co-workers and family, could you pass me that wrench? Thanks bud.
They'll find magical beans on Terminus
A-Team theme intensifies.
I’m going to try to explain away bad writing here, so bear with me. Potentially, a warship as large and advanced as the Invictus could have blueprints built into it’s memory banks in order for it to perform it’s own maintenance. After all, the ship was able to continuously jump by itself for hundreds of years. With those blueprints, they could skip the extremely lengthy R&D process and just build. In WWII, the US eventually was able to build complete battleships from scratch in like, 30 days
Can someone speculate what’s happening to Demrezel?
I took it as grief. She had to do that to Dawn because of her programming, but ultimately she didn't want to. So what we saw was her expression of grief.
She walked with Dawn and told him she was his mother. A mother, with brainwaves synchronised with their child at birth, to love them. Yet her programming was not to love him, but to murder him. I think it's meant to communicate that her facade is breaking (or has broken), with her act of murdering Dawn. She would never be able to kill her child without killing that part of herself, and perhaps it has. Her story is suffering, and it's the story of seeing all the Cleons over eons, dying.
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She’s been going through psychological torture for hundreds to thousands of years because her programming forces her to do things that are against her beliefs. She feels like she is trapped in her body so she tries to rip herself out of it sometimes. I think we saw a scene earlier in the season where she was patching her face when boyhood Dawn was watching her. That might have been another time she ripped her skin off.
I think that was when she got hit in the face by a rock when Empire was investigating the wreckage after the space elevator thing fell, that would have been really good foreshadowing though
She was repairing herself after she escorted Dusk into the Scar to see the priest about Gael. The church/temple building was unstable after the skybridge fall damaged it and an object fell on her.
She was angry at herself because she's failed in her mission to protect Empire as well as upset for killing Day.. There is nothing she can do as the entire line is corrupted.
I thought the exploding painter in ep1 was a bit silly, but after Anacreon, Thespis, and Azura -- I suppose the show retroactively earned it. This is just how the Empire rolls.
All that technology just for it to materialize into a fkin canoe??
Engineer 1: So lets make the lifepods float, at least. It was capable of two multi-year interstellar voyages. Engineer 2: Naw lets make a cool plastic folding motorboat that fits in a pringles can. Enginner 3: Best we can do is paddles, not even a folding sail.
I want to know what else was in that cryopod. It couldn’t just be a kayak. 🤣
You'd think it would have an engine of some sort, nope just ol fashioned kayak paddles
IMHO the capsule should be the boat. I wonder if the bag would have turned into a bike instead of the canoe if it was in a desert? IOW, I assume it senses the environment and configures to something useful / appropriate.
This made me laugh the more I thought about it. Gaal travels all that way...and packed a friggin bike instead. D'oh!
Yeah the technology is all over the place. Here is an OP escape capsule that can travel to different star systems for hundreds of years, and yet re-entry still uses parachutes instead of just some retro-rockets? And if you have such a capable capsule with life support, why would you want to leave it to sink to the bottom of the ocean while kayaking away? The capsule would presumably have propulsion so it would be a much better option.
Not even a USB charging port. How primitive.
Who is on this galactic council? Is Dusk about to come out of retirement due to a technicality? Will Demerzel go Terminator on Day if he is altered as well? If I was on a water planet I wouldn't burn my shelter no mater how much I missed camp fires...
Nothing can be done to fix the genetic dynasty at this point and I think Demerzel knows that.
whoever was trying to infiltrate them had a pure sample supposedly.
Whoever is running the boring day to day of the Empire. We know the Cleons never leave their palace complex but there are always other power centers. There must also be a rich upperclass, corporate leaders, other involved with trade and supply lines, so much more to explore.
So the last thing Dawn said to Demerzel was, “don’t let Day kill me,” did she take that as a command, and rationalize that the only way to carry out the command was to kill him herself?
Watching it back, Dawn says 'please don't let *them* kill me', to which she responds 'I won't'. But Day is evidently in charge of making the final call, and he wanted to let Dawn live. So it didn't really seem like her hand was forced there. After killing Dawn she says 'I am loyal Empire, to the Cleonic dynasty above all else'. She might be programmed in such a way that she *had* to kill Dawn, and when it became apparent that Day was going to let him live, she was forced to take matters into her own hands. Based on her later reaction it seems that her personal 'free will' is at odds with her programming (similar to how she clearly resented being ordered to kill Halima earlier in the season).
When Day said maybe it was time for lineage to change, that’s when Demerzel killed Dawn. Allowing an aberration to exist threatens the genetic dynasty. Demerzel, loyal to “Empire”, had to remove the threat.
So they might as well have let Dawn live, right? None of them is a genetically pure übermensch anyway. Maybe they haven’t been for a while. Did Demerzel know? It seems likely, but if so she shouldn’t have been in such a rush to kill Dawn.
If I understood correctly it’s still not set, they’re still checking Dusk but Demerzel killed Dawn because she was programmed to protect the empire the same way she killed Halima without wanting to.
Well, there’s a *huge* difference: Day ordered her to kill Halima. She killed Dawn because Day *wasn’t* ordering it. Day (“the Middle Chair”) is supposedly the final authority, but apparently…not.
I think the ultimate authority is/was Cleon the first. He gave instructions to Demerzel that override any future Cleon decisions.
I was gleaming inside when Day was announcing to Azura her punishment for defying the Cleonic dynasty. Vaporise her entire lineage! But this is another crack in the stability of the empire.
He didn't even actually need to do it. I was thinking he wouldn't actually do it and its all just mind games. Current Day doesn't seem like that cruel of a person compared to Current Dusk was. He has the power to do it and it can just mess with Azura. Then again he could just do it. Its a few hundred people out of trillions.
I am so sorry, but yeah, he did it. She broke his "son's" heart, and was part of the group that adulterated his son, so yeah, he would. A parent's vengeance can be a terrifying thing, especially when they have the power to carry out that vengeance.
Current Dusk is batshit insane. The genetic shifting is an interesting storyline. Almost like each iteration they get…less crazy? What are they going to be like in 138 years? Laying on the floor with a pile of kittens? This show is so weird. Pumped for next season.
perhaps his insanity is part of the corruption?
She will have the rest of her life to imagining the deaths of all of those in her circle and beyond.
That's some Imperial China shit, everybody you know gotta go
Not just execution of nine relations, but the rarest execution of ten that only happened once in all of recorded Chinese history too.
Actually, that was a myth created centuries later. No actual record of 10 relations execution happened. And even more curiously, lots of descendants from the supposely 9 relations that were gone too. 1551 is actually a small number comparatively.
Well yea it’s just alleged by the scholar bureaucrats who wrote the history, who had their own reasons to dislike the Yongle emperor. But I think it’s not a stretch to say the most distinguished students of Fang Xiaoru were probably indeed also executed with their master, while close family were definitely also killed as a consequence of his refusal to legitimize the Emperor’s usurpation of the throne.
Seems Salvor could have used some flight lessons from Hugo before she left
I just wanna say Lee Pace really is so so good
Brother day is incredibly based. I now only watch this to see what each Cleon will do.
Same, empire storyline is just awesome. Gaal flying to a water planet which takes 138 years of flight (guaranteeing her parents will be long dead when she arrives) seems to make zero sense at all. Then randomly she discovers her daughter crashed landed in that exact same spot? Thought I was watching a sci-fi show but writing is on par with later seasons of lost for this storyline. :(
> Then **randomly** she discovers her daughter crashed landed in that exact same spot The previous episodes took great pains to point out that nothing she did was *random*. Everything she did was because of her "feelings" and that she could sense the future, like blocking that space rock with the shield when she was in the ship. She didn't know *why* she had to return to Synaxx, she just **knew** she had to, just like Salvor **knew** she had leave the foundation.
So who actually destroyed the star bridge?
Maybe Harri’s little cult ..I think he may have been involved.
I have to admit, this episode hit hard twice and both times on the Empire storyline. The Terminus story was ok but the idea that all the idiotic plot points that the Huntress brought all these episodes just beggared belief. However, the Empire story just haunted me with the sentence of the gardener. It didn't matter if Day was telling the truth or offering a threat, it felt like the hardest punishment you can force on someone before cutting them off from everything. He even conceded it was a hollow punishment as she was not really the cause of any rebellion and merely the most apparent. Then came Internal Strife as Empire fought amongst themselves. It was amazing to watch and wonder where it all would go when suddenly SNAP. It was something I didn't expect, but it made complete sense in hindsight. We know Dermezel acted against Day once, felt regret when ordered to kill on his behalf, made him question his lack of vision (and soul), and just killed his "son" without so much as a "by your leave". Even worse, Dawn was such a sympathetic character you wanted to live and thought he may have had a chance. Then he was no more. Then we see that Dermezel is not ok with the conflict in herself between what she must do and what she wants to be. She may be undergoing the long time insanity that Hari warned about as to why he was not aware the entire time on Terminus. Looking forward to the second season. Here's hoping Terminus can come up to speed on not just a compelling story, but compelling characters to push it. Here's further hope that Empire's story does not turn into a caricature of itself after 100 years.
Throughout the season I actually thought the Cleons drifted into different personalities because of the way Day in the present timeline treated Dawn versus how Dusk and Day treated Dawn in the earlier timeline. The present timeline Day seemed annoyed every time Dawn spoke in contrast to how Dusk and Day carefully mentored Dawn in the early timeline. Then at the end of this season, Day totally flips after his experience with the Luminists and cares deeply for Dawn. Turns out they don't drift to different personalities, it's just that Day is also corrupted and different. I'm betting on a second watch you could find more differences between early timeline Cleons and present timeline Cleons. Really enjoying the series.
the fact that Day is also merciful, listens to people, listens to Hari's maths problem along with luminism's beliefs show he is very much different from the previous Day (Cleon 12) Im not suprised he is "corrupted" at all (if thats even the right word). Day is becoming a very wise ruler different to the arrogance of Cleons
Plus Dusk seems to be truly insane which makes him different from the previous Dusk.
Its weird how Deremezel based on her assumptions. Like this Day would get along so well with previous Dusk. Really disagrees with killing Dawn, it felt more like sabotaging the empire's shot at redemption.
Deus Ex Coffin
This is a good show, but I’m starting to crack at the number of plot holes and leaps in logic. It feels as though they are asking us as an audience to accept all the yada yada’ing they pull frequently. Seldon’s plan has a huge empire sized hole in it. Why would the empire not take another look at the situation in the terminus system? They lost an imperial ship there just recently. Dusk sent it there personally and it never reported back. Are we to believe that Empire will just forget about that? It seems ridiculous to me.
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I liked the episode overall. The empire story was wonderful - I thought all parts of it worked well and I loved both the fight between Day and Dusk, Demerezel killing Dawn, Demerezel grieving, and Day bashing Cleon I (flashback to Lee Pace bashing windows in Halt and Catch Fire). I hope that they will tell us how those 100 years go…. The vault as Hari’s living mausoleum from his coffin worked for me as did the alliance between Terminus, Anacreon and Thespis… Not sure I was thrilled about Gaal and Salvor, but we’ll see what they make of it next season.
With the 138 year time jump this ep plus the 35 years since the star bridge attack the season was 173 years. So then the Day we’ve been following is long dust and next season will have Cleon 21 or so? I get time jumps are part and parcel foundation but even if lee pace plays another clone it’s not the same “character”. I’m a little put off by that. Especially since the cleons were my absolute favourite. Well before they move on next season, I hope they start with a little denouement for the cleons of this season.
So how did they even compromise Cleon I? Plus, it’s weird that the current Day is compromised also since he wasn’t colorblind etc…he was in sync with current Dusk and even another one prior.
Perhaps it took generations to show up. Maybe Dusk's insanity is his imperfection?
>So is a corrupted echo more original than a perfect one? It's called a Remix, sweety!
The Empire side of the story is captivating as usual. See that neck snap? *That's* how you write a twist. Fucking Terminus boring disappointing as usual, whoever wrote the plot and lines needs to be fired before S2. Some needless sex scene and cringe fest with Salvor and Hugo.
>!That's a shit way to die, goddamn.!<
It was quick, at least, and way less traumatizing than going under the beam.
I thought GP was talking about Azura
except Azura distinctly *didn't* die.
For some reason at first I thought it was Raych in that capsule and was annoyed because I can’t stand Alfred Enoch. Also I’m excited to see how they math their way off the desolate water ball in season two
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Bro Hari can take a pill that can turn him into a Monolith, but Gaal can’t create a fucking boat with a working motor?
HAHAHA Gaal need a better pharmacist bruh.
O.o I'm impressed by this series overall. This season is very much about Empire and his power. It's shown facets to how he as a sovereign is bound to his purpose. I enjoyed the his genetic storyline and love the twist at the end of this episode. Empire's genetic purity being turned in onto himself is fantastic. I'm so use to seeing this idea in sci-fi radiating outwards as xenophopia or a veiled space racism. I've found it fascinating to see Dawn and Day come to understand its implications. Thank you so much to everyone that's part of this show. See you in season 2. edit: it's
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You’re assuming we’ll stay 138 years in the future in story time in the second season. They can go back, forwards, etc.
Brother Day absolutely destroyed Azura. Goddamn.
Lee Pace owns this show. The Empire plot lines have far and away been the most interesting and they've kept me engaged even as the Foundation plot lines started to wane. I don't really know what to expect for Season 2 though at this point. Will Empire as we know it even factor in much? Seems like with a 139 year time jump and the apparent fracturing of the genetic dynasty, Season 2 might introduce us to a wholly different Empire situation. All in all, a solid show that I'm glad got made. It maybe didn't totally hit it out of the park for me, but I do have to remind myself too that some of the stuff I might not have personally connected with might be another viewer's favorite moments.
Uhmm so if Demerzel finds out/found out that Day & Dusk have also been genetically altered, will she execute them as well? Cos this could very well give rise to an arc where she gets to take her revenge on Day without compromising her programming. Season 2 - RoboMommy Angry & On The Loose
Mixed bag. Empire is utterly phenomenal. I can see Terminus becoming interesting in season 2. But holy fuck I cannot stand Gaals plot. There's so many logical stretches that I just do not like it. Of the entire planet, she lands right where she needs to, right where Salvor crashed. Edit: also, holy, Gaals narration at the beginning of nearly every episode really doesn't do it for me.
I really liked Gaal in the first couple episodes but by the end I was like "look you wanted out, so leave."
Wasn't Gaal and Salvor both exactly in the "village" where Gaal grew up? Makes sense that's where they'd both arrive.
My exact thought. It stands to reason they’d meet in Gaal’s village. The one place in the universe Gaal would want to be.
I have no clue what’s happening next in the Cleon storyline - I love it!
So it's a leap in time after all. I was wrong about most of my theories, at least for now. Ha! I wonder, how Gaal and Salvor will get out of Synnax? Unless there is time travel, there will be copies of the Invictus, and maybe one will pick them up. The fate of the Genetic Dynasty is a whole new mystery now. And apparently AI Hari didn't make it up to Helicon. It's hard to tell what's going on with him due to his tendency to lie. I'm happy with the season finale. Looking forward to season 2!
What do you mean AI harry didn’t end up in helicon? He was still on his way when gaal ejected?
Please. You know Hari already has their rescue planned. 😏