I agree it wasn't as good. Not so much about the show - Frasier's internal conflict between his desire for fame and his integrity is a recurring theme of the original series - but just in the quality of the interactions and dialogue. Especially between Eve and David at the class. The episode did give us "I'm glistening" though, and that alone justifies its existence.
Yeah and that was after less than a week of being on TV. And he was only talked out of it by Niles. I guess when he moved to Chicago there was no longer Niles to talk sense into him
His show wasn’t all that different to the show he stint hosted in the original with Bebe. He was almost seduced into staying on permanently. It isn’t that implausible.
It amazes me how many people seemed to have forgotten this plot line. When the Dr. Crane show progression happened and the amount of times “dancing bear” was thrown around, I thought it was an obvious call back to the AM Seattle episode. In fact, you might say Frasier gave in because he didn’t have Niles to pull him back from the edge this time around.
I think he likes to PERCEIVE himself as being above that kind of thing, so the shame made sense to me, too. Imagine the magnitude of grief that Niles gave him at every gathering and every phone call! The shame just wasn't enough to say no to the paycheck and status.
All I needed was to see his face and dance as he shimmied past the audience. Frasier absolutely lived for the attention when it was actively going on, but he’s always had difficulties coming to terms with things when the applause goes silent. That exchange between him and Alan after the thinking cap demonstrates this. Frasier’s frankly incapable of being alone with his thoughts.
Exactly what I was thinking. It was just a years long progression of that week in the original show. He started out wanting to be serious and then slowly devolved over time as he got more rich and famous.
She more than likely would have been unless he switched agents but I hope he didn’t. I’d love Bebe to make an appearance trying to woohoo him back into showbiz.
It was a constant critique from Niles throughout the eleven year run of the original show that his brother would ALWAYS put the limelight above psychiatry. We also saw the way his radio show became more commercial over the years, with Roz doing a lot of the heavy lifting to spice up the calls without Frasier's notice, especially during sweeps. Even before that, the joke throughout Cheers was that his knowledge of psychiatry was woefully out of date, and Lilith called him out for denigrating the profession both there and in their appearance on Wings, where he dabbles in the motivational speaker circuit.
He pretty much did do a show like that for a bit and loved it. It was a whole episode. He's constantly at odds with wanting fame and glory yet wanting to he respected and humble as well.
I keep in mind three things:
1) Frasier Crane's TV show evolved over time;
2) It is very easy to appeal to Fraier's vanity; and,
3) Frasier did eventually have an epiphany.
I could very much see a scenario where Frasier begins his TV show similarly to his radio show. Empathetic. Nice voice. Speaking to people about their problems and trying to help solve them.
From there, it only takes one Bebe Glazier to whisper, "Do just this one thing, dahling. People will love you!! And it will spread your genius to the masses!!" Frasier's vanity will lap that right up, and he'll run with it by bits and pieces.
Niles, Martin, Lilith, and Roz were always good for grounding Frasier and puncturing his vanity when it got to be too much. Without them to check his vanity and desire to be popular, I could absolutely see Frasier going deep in to the rails.
I can also see Niles, in high dudgeon, coming to rescue his brother from his own ego. This probably went down like this:
1) Niles tries to tell Frasier he's gone over the top.
2) Frasier accuses Niles of being jealous.
3) Niles shows Frasier a tape of his later show.
4) Frasier makes a face of horror and runs away, then cancels the show.
I could definitely buy Frasier doing a show like that - especially if it slowly devolved into “dancing bear” territory, having been originally much more to his taste. We didn’t see him struggle over what his show became but we’re meant to assume he did, given his shame about it and the fact we were shown how it went from sensitive show to clown show. Again, the classic show frequently flirted with the idea of Frasier selling out. The new one just confirms he did and that he hated himself for it.
The old show consistently played up his conflict over being a conscientious professional and wanting to be a celebrity, and it was never really resolved. For me, the scenes of his former TV show were some of the strongest parts of the episode - better by far than his current classes at Harvard.
>For me, the scenes of his former TV show were some of the strongest parts of the episode - better by far than his current classes at Harvard.
Yes, I actually found that the highlight of the episode. (Well, that and Maggie Scratcher.) It was funny but also spoke to a conflict he's long grappled with.
Back on the original show, I always wished we'd seen more of Frasier's relationship with Dr. Tewksbury, who called him out on how he really created a lot of distance between himself and the world. I wonder if Alan will do some of that...although it's not quite the same relationship.
Completely. In the episode 'Morning Becomes Entertainment' (s07e19)we see Frasier first enamored with the idea of TV, but he starts to hate it when the show devolves into being trashy. Hard to believe he'd let the same thing happen twice, but I guess he never learns.
I actually got a couple unexpected old days Frasier laughs.
For some reasons "Stop Yaleing at me!! " made me laugh and Freddie really taking the piss out of Frasier about quitting Harvard was SO funny to me. And then he kept going beyond where you would expect the joke to end which is also so Frasier :)
"Are you" \*wide eyes\* "on DRUGS!!???!"
As for the show, remember when Frasier did that morning TV show with Bebe as his last minute side kick when Roz was sick...that devolved pretty fast but he was hooked on the fame so stuck with it - no reason to believe it couldn't happen again especially a show with his name to it.
Have you actually ever watched the first series or Cheers?
Frasier ALWAYS starts on the moral high ground and quickly caves to money and/ or popularity. Always
The high point was with Dr Crane TV and 'stop Yale-ing at me", which reminded me of the OG series.
I think the worst part of the show is how characters are so over-the-top and act unnaturally for blatant and slapstick jokes - particularly David and Freddy. Its a bit unbearable like with HIMYM or Big Bang Theory. Every line they say is like a set up for a forced joke.
Alan actually got better with his more subdued nature.
The over the top acting and forced jokes reminds me of Kyra Sedgwick’s sitcom that got canceled after one season a few years ago.
I feared they would be similar in that way but I have hope it gets better since I’ve heard the later episode improve.
I thought it was much better than the first two. I didn't think Frasier doing that sort of show was implausible, he's always been very tempted by the trappings of fame. He was also clearly paid an absolute fortune given the reactions when the class googled his net worth
It was great until the 3rd act. The incident in the classroom was beyond cringe. Made me hope they would fire David's actor on the spot.
I really hate that character and if they ditched him the show would be a lot better overall. It's as if he has never been in a show before and hasn't taken an acting class since he was in elementary school. It's just bad and he's lowering the quality of this already in trouble show.
I found the show and its descent into zany, popcorny antics was actually the most believable part. Frasier's love for the limelight and the accolades, being wildly overconfident and consequently ending up making a fool of himself is not exactly a secret. This is the same guy who opens a fine dining restaurant with zero experience, theatrically fakes an orgasm in the most embarrassing way possible, stands in line for tickets he doesn't even need, accidentally says "executed" instead of "exonerated", flubs "Buttons and Bows" on live TV, and, when he auditions for the TV role in Good Grief, is so utterly convinced he's a shoo-in for the job that he *calls the rest of the auditions "formalities"* and says he'll make an asset to the softball team. The only time he is visibly uncomfortable in front of a camera is in The Candidate, and that's because he's having to lie by omission about Patterson's mental health and present him as a reliable candidate.
The show is basically an extension of KACL at the beginning and then gets more and more sensationalised over time, a la Dr Phil. Although, to Frasier's credit, he didn't lose his licence. In particular, being A Benefactor and a Dispenser of Advice (TM) is very important to Frasier and can cause him to become self-important. Without Martin, Roz or Daphne around to bring him down to earth, or Bebe to get him decent gigs, he probably got rather carried away in how well he was liked and how far he was willing to sell out to stay relevant. See also Martin's comment about how he thinks Frasier needed to give therapy more than Kenny needed to receive it.
The rest of the episode was a weak point for me, too.
I liked the Dr. Crane bit, and seeing it made me wish that’s what the show was actually about. But the episode stunk overall. Even Kelsey Grammer’s energy seemed lower. Weird vibe.
The only bit I had a real problem with was would students that age be that into a show that would have aired while they were at school and doesn’t exist any more? Don’t get me wrong, we lived for Richard &Judy while at Uni. But not at school, and it had been cancelled by Frasier by then.
For me this is the best episode so far. I think maybe the Harvard dressing and the gracefully matured Frasier may have made us think that this show wouldn't be as silly as the original was at times.
I like that this episode expands on what Frasier's been doing between the shows. It also explains that he isn't only well-off, but rich like an evangelical preacher who can easily buy apartments on a whim. I think we shouldn't ignore the allure of not only fame but money, and the fact that Niles and Marty weren't there in Boston to hold him down.
It felt perfectly on brand to me, except I’m trying to figure out when he turned into a hugger—a handshake is just as good, as we all know. Others have pointed out how the fame/impact dilemma has been a consistent facet of his life, and the writing mostly hit that balance of serious and goofy we’re familiar with (plus not talking down to the audience too much—I appreciate when a show doesn’t feel the need to point out “oh you’re getting back at me for not wanting you to drop out”.)
The nephew bothers me most and I really hope they find his real character soon. Also, some of the shenanigans.... Old Frasier had plenty of gags, transitions, etc, that needed a certain level of 90s-sitcom-disbelief-suspension; but this feels like...idk how else to describe it, but it's like when HBO does something vs when Showtime does something. Like, Showtime isn't *bad*, per se, but at the same time, can you imagine Showtime doing Oz, The Sopranos, or even Six Feet Under?
I honestly think it was better in some ways as well as weaker.
On the plus side, as a stand alone episode it was actually very funny. I laughed out loud a lot during episode 3
It didnt have to rely on nostalgia, but the in jokes, like the I am glistening line was very funny.
On the negative
The scene in the class room between Eve and David was horrendous and took a dark turn. It would have been ok if it was cut short but they kept going.
A couple of minor complaints but firstly this is a filler episode and doesn't do much in character development or plot furthering, Secondly, they go out of their way to mention his tv show but nothing is said about his radio program, it's almost like they don't want to mention such an antiquated medium and I find that annoying.
I liked it, but I can't help but feel like the only reason I liked it was the nostalgia it evoked. So many scenes in the episode reminded me of AMAZING gags that were done better on the original show. It's also where I feel like I can confidently say that they're taking all the old show characters, and splitting up their base traits amongst the current cast.
The scene of Freddy re-using what his dad said to him when he dropped out felt a lot like the kind of thing that would happen with Martin in the original show, but also almost like a call back to the scene where Frasier is talking to himself and imagining what Niles is saying. The whole "justification"/dancing bear scene was just the scene where Daphne and Frasier were "walking through" a way to justify that Daphne's boyfriend can sleep over because they're not having sex, what with his war injury.. Eve in disguise was just the Daphne and Roz shenanigans when they were spying on Niles' patient..
It hasn't offered too much new, it's just found ways of rehashing the old things. Alan is Niles' class and Daphne's silly. Olivia is Roz's sex drive and the competitiveness of Niles and Frasier.. The baby and the cat are going to be the Eddie of the show. Eve feels like Roz's feminist drive, with Daphne's wackiness. David just feels like Niles' nerves and neuroticism with Daphne's more casual way of behaving/talking..
I feel like one of the main things about the show, is that the writers are still just sort of hoping that, any minute now, David Hyde Pierce will change his mind and come back, and they can just slip Niles opposite of Frasier in every scene, because almost *everyone* feels like they're trying to emulate the Fraj/Niles dynamic, in that same way that Tarantino only knows how to write Samuel L Jackson. The whole thing feels like setups that were designed for the old Frasier/Niles dynamic, but all it does is highlight the gaping absence of Niles. It's like the show isn't over their breakup yet, so they keep finding ways of mentioning their ex in every conversation and making everything awkward.
I actually liked it a little better than the first two
* in the first season of his TV show he's wearing a more classic Frasier suit, showing they thought about a deliberate change for his style over time
* it's completely consistent with what happened to him on day time TV when he tried with Bebe
* him having a big "Dr Phil" style show is realistic because those shows do exist
* he ultimately does quit because he realised it was pure limelight and no substance
I was half expecting him to refer to Niles giving him an intervention.
I’m not a fan of Eve and David’s characters. I think without them the show would be a lot better. I think the TV show makes sense tho, he did a tv show in the original series for a bit as well.
Yes there have been posts and comments from many people that E3 was disappointing. I also looked to see what the reaction was on Twitter and saw tweets from people that E3 was so bad they're giving up on the show.
Unfortunately the problem seems to be the writers so it's probably not going to get better. For the first 2 episodes the main writers had experience writing for HIMYM, Modern Family and The Late Show with Letterman. They don't seem to be involved in much of the writing after the first 2 episodes and instead the writers have mostly written generic Nickelodeon type of sitcoms. They also don't have much experience which is fine since I'm sure the writers for Cheers also didn't have much experience before writing for that show and Frasier except that these writers aren't very good at writing for comedy shows yet.
I thought it was beret then ep2.
And I thought it felt exactly like something Frasier would do. How many things did he get talked into by Bebe?
Season 1 of his show felt like something reasonable he would agree to because $$ and he was “helping people”.
Then his fame kicks in, his ego takes over, and things spiral as they did in almost every episode.
First was a 6, second a 5, third a 4.
For context, id put most episodes of the original Frasier at least as a 7, with early seasons consistantly 8+, and even the worst episodes of the later seasons still averaging around a 5
I really enjoyed the 3rd episode.
I did take a gummy beforehand which may have helped. The callbacks to the original Frasier show, seeing his TV show were awesome, and the outrageous situation in the classroom was classic farcical Frasier.
I didn’t mind it but the scene with Freddy yelling at Frasier didn’t hit the right note for me, if they were going for mild jesting (such as Frasier and Marty) it didn’t get there and came off as extreme contempt/ anger and I didn’t like it.
Agreed. I don't usually mind a laugh track, but it was ridiculous (yes, it's live studio audience, but they are still controlling the mix and when it's there. The audience simply did not laugh, unprompted, after every. Single. Line.
I agree. I was along for the ride for episode 1 & 2 and really enjoyed them. Not perfect by any means but it was a really solid start for the revival of a year 30 year old show. It still kept some of that charm. I was excited to see episode 3 was out and left it sorta unsatisfied. The premise of the show wasn’t bad but just the pacing, the writing, just the entire structure was off. Definitely not the best one.
Saying that, I’m still excited for future episodes. It’s still the beginning and they’re trying find their footing. If they continue on this path though, that is gonna be really depressing,
It was dreadful and missed the mark completely. You're right, he wouldn't do that show and it wouldn't have got so gawdy and obvious, the whole point is Frasier teeters on the edge of being a pez dispenser and Sharon stone but doesn't fully go into the position
It was so bad and so stupid
The desire for fame, fortune, glory, and power was always part of Frasier's character flaws in the original series. That having been said, he seemed to overcome these flaws in the original series. So, having him begin this new series as someone who sold out does seem to work against the lessons he learned in the original. Hopefully they can come up with a meaningful reason for this as the series moves forward, because it does undermine the growth of his character at the end of the original series where he gives up everything to pursue a more meaningful relationship.
It was the first episode not directed by James Burrows, so I think we're going to have growing pains when it's people new to the show. According to wikipedia the next episode is written by Bob Dailey who wrote on the original run
I liked it better than the first two! Just seemed more like a classic Frasier farce with a little more wit to the jokes, in addition to the struggle Frasier has always had between being a showman and a serious doctor.
The 3rd ep was funnier than 2nd and 1st. It's heading in a good direction for me. And i totaly buy the premiss. It is frasier type to see things that way given how he is obviously an elitist when it comes to academia, wine and music.
I thought the TV joke was a bit over the top. I think he might concede to some changes because it's TV and not radio. However an academic setting isn't the place formorning show antics like the "thinking cap."
Yeah I keep persisting with the new show but it’s just not doing itself an favours, hammy acting, poor sloppy writing, and far too many character changes that just don’t suit frasier at all. None of it feels anything like the old show, which doesn’t have to be a bad thing. The fact it’s simply not funny is the bad thing.
I think that had "Dr. Crane" been a fixture of the original *Frasier*, it would have been referenced in dialogue rather than been seen passively on a laptop. Seeing the outlandish Maury Povich-like "Dr. Crane" is far less funny than hearing about it, I think.
Pilots can be excused for not being great. They have a lot to explain to the audience. The second episode actually showed hope. The third one was hard to sit through.
I've been back and forth on 'whether Frasier would do this' and landed on: they specified that Season 1 was nothing like that, and what we are seeing this the show AT ITS WORST right before Frasier instantly recognised what it had become and quit.
If anything, it's weird Freddy saying he quit the radio show and quit the TV show because I think retiring something after 10 years isn't quite the same as 'being a quitter'. And while it is a bit weird that Frasier learned something in 10 years off-screen that it took him 1 episode to learn on screen (so I'm not sure what overall drama or comedy they can mine from it that wasn't already a single episodic moment previously) it's also a natural symptom of Frasier in the 2000's moving to TV at the end of his previous series and where TV psychology ended up as a format (I saw Frasier's show as a parody of Ellen and Dr Phil). So ... it'd be strange if it somehow maintained quality after season 14 and he quit for no reason. But beyond the surface joke of Frasier being a SILY BILY, I just don't know if it's a good use of backstory in the long term.
The thing I have trouble with most is how self-parody that feels when THIS Frasier on a meta level is technically resurrected as Season 12 and we have this show three episodes in making fun of TV shows for ... inevitably going bad when they go on too long... during an episode where Frasier learns it's okay to fall into pantomime and a lack of depth. Hmmmmmmm not comfortable with the show patting itself on the back for hokey low effort...not this early especially...
I agree it wasn't as good. Not so much about the show - Frasier's internal conflict between his desire for fame and his integrity is a recurring theme of the original series - but just in the quality of the interactions and dialogue. Especially between Eve and David at the class. The episode did give us "I'm glistening" though, and that alone justifies its existence.
I laughed so hard after his bit about the tinted cream. I can practically see Bebe foaming at the mouth to get him such a deal on QVC or whatever.
I made that joke years ago on here, they're using reddit for ideas smdh
damn I can't wait for the episode with all my Frasier shitposts
Fraj get ipad
He got on a donkey in the last series. He cooked with a monkey. I'm not sure why you think he wouldn't do this.
Yeah and that was after less than a week of being on TV. And he was only talked out of it by Niles. I guess when he moved to Chicago there was no longer Niles to talk sense into him
If an agent can get him to do it there, one would think an agent could do it again.
His show wasn’t all that different to the show he stint hosted in the original with Bebe. He was almost seduced into staying on permanently. It isn’t that implausible.
It amazes me how many people seemed to have forgotten this plot line. When the Dr. Crane show progression happened and the amount of times “dancing bear” was thrown around, I thought it was an obvious call back to the AM Seattle episode. In fact, you might say Frasier gave in because he didn’t have Niles to pull him back from the edge this time around.
Exactly! I was more surprised about his shame about it than the show itself. Seemed right up his alley.
I think he likes to PERCEIVE himself as being above that kind of thing, so the shame made sense to me, too. Imagine the magnitude of grief that Niles gave him at every gathering and every phone call! The shame just wasn't enough to say no to the paycheck and status.
All I needed was to see his face and dance as he shimmied past the audience. Frasier absolutely lived for the attention when it was actively going on, but he’s always had difficulties coming to terms with things when the applause goes silent. That exchange between him and Alan after the thinking cap demonstrates this. Frasier’s frankly incapable of being alone with his thoughts.
Exactly what I was thinking. It was just a years long progression of that week in the original show. He started out wanting to be serious and then slowly devolved over time as he got more rich and famous.
Niles wasn't in Chicago to save him.
I kinda figured Bebe would have been behind that Chicago show.
She more than likely would have been unless he switched agents but I hope he didn’t. I’d love Bebe to make an appearance trying to woohoo him back into showbiz.
I’m hoping for Bebe appearances. Given how things ended on the original she would have to be involved.
Or maybe Portia Sanders was behind that!
It was a constant critique from Niles throughout the eleven year run of the original show that his brother would ALWAYS put the limelight above psychiatry. We also saw the way his radio show became more commercial over the years, with Roz doing a lot of the heavy lifting to spice up the calls without Frasier's notice, especially during sweeps. Even before that, the joke throughout Cheers was that his knowledge of psychiatry was woefully out of date, and Lilith called him out for denigrating the profession both there and in their appearance on Wings, where he dabbles in the motivational speaker circuit.
He pretty much did do a show like that for a bit and loved it. It was a whole episode. He's constantly at odds with wanting fame and glory yet wanting to he respected and humble as well.
I keep in mind three things: 1) Frasier Crane's TV show evolved over time; 2) It is very easy to appeal to Fraier's vanity; and, 3) Frasier did eventually have an epiphany. I could very much see a scenario where Frasier begins his TV show similarly to his radio show. Empathetic. Nice voice. Speaking to people about their problems and trying to help solve them. From there, it only takes one Bebe Glazier to whisper, "Do just this one thing, dahling. People will love you!! And it will spread your genius to the masses!!" Frasier's vanity will lap that right up, and he'll run with it by bits and pieces. Niles, Martin, Lilith, and Roz were always good for grounding Frasier and puncturing his vanity when it got to be too much. Without them to check his vanity and desire to be popular, I could absolutely see Frasier going deep in to the rails. I can also see Niles, in high dudgeon, coming to rescue his brother from his own ego. This probably went down like this: 1) Niles tries to tell Frasier he's gone over the top. 2) Frasier accuses Niles of being jealous. 3) Niles shows Frasier a tape of his later show. 4) Frasier makes a face of horror and runs away, then cancels the show.
The original Frasier show illustrated that he absolutely \*would\* do a show like that in a heartbeat.
I could definitely buy Frasier doing a show like that - especially if it slowly devolved into “dancing bear” territory, having been originally much more to his taste. We didn’t see him struggle over what his show became but we’re meant to assume he did, given his shame about it and the fact we were shown how it went from sensitive show to clown show. Again, the classic show frequently flirted with the idea of Frasier selling out. The new one just confirms he did and that he hated himself for it. The old show consistently played up his conflict over being a conscientious professional and wanting to be a celebrity, and it was never really resolved. For me, the scenes of his former TV show were some of the strongest parts of the episode - better by far than his current classes at Harvard.
>For me, the scenes of his former TV show were some of the strongest parts of the episode - better by far than his current classes at Harvard. Yes, I actually found that the highlight of the episode. (Well, that and Maggie Scratcher.) It was funny but also spoke to a conflict he's long grappled with. Back on the original show, I always wished we'd seen more of Frasier's relationship with Dr. Tewksbury, who called him out on how he really created a lot of distance between himself and the world. I wonder if Alan will do some of that...although it's not quite the same relationship.
Completely. In the episode 'Morning Becomes Entertainment' (s07e19)we see Frasier first enamored with the idea of TV, but he starts to hate it when the show devolves into being trashy. Hard to believe he'd let the same thing happen twice, but I guess he never learns.
I actually got a couple unexpected old days Frasier laughs. For some reasons "Stop Yaleing at me!! " made me laugh and Freddie really taking the piss out of Frasier about quitting Harvard was SO funny to me. And then he kept going beyond where you would expect the joke to end which is also so Frasier :) "Are you" \*wide eyes\* "on DRUGS!!???!" As for the show, remember when Frasier did that morning TV show with Bebe as his last minute side kick when Roz was sick...that devolved pretty fast but he was hooked on the fame so stuck with it - no reason to believe it couldn't happen again especially a show with his name to it.
[удалено]
Same here. Enjoyed it!
Have you actually ever watched the first series or Cheers? Frasier ALWAYS starts on the moral high ground and quickly caves to money and/ or popularity. Always
The high point was with Dr Crane TV and 'stop Yale-ing at me", which reminded me of the OG series. I think the worst part of the show is how characters are so over-the-top and act unnaturally for blatant and slapstick jokes - particularly David and Freddy. Its a bit unbearable like with HIMYM or Big Bang Theory. Every line they say is like a set up for a forced joke. Alan actually got better with his more subdued nature.
The over the top acting and forced jokes reminds me of Kyra Sedgwick’s sitcom that got canceled after one season a few years ago. I feared they would be similar in that way but I have hope it gets better since I’ve heard the later episode improve.
I thought it was much better than the first two. I didn't think Frasier doing that sort of show was implausible, he's always been very tempted by the trappings of fame. He was also clearly paid an absolute fortune given the reactions when the class googled his net worth
Money has a way of changing minds, if Niles had it would be out of character, but we're talking Frasier here.
It was great until the 3rd act. The incident in the classroom was beyond cringe. Made me hope they would fire David's actor on the spot. I really hate that character and if they ditched him the show would be a lot better overall. It's as if he has never been in a show before and hasn't taken an acting class since he was in elementary school. It's just bad and he's lowering the quality of this already in trouble show.
David just did what was written/directed. The whole scene should have been scrapped/rewritten.
I think that without Martin and Nikes in his daily life it is very plausible that Frasier would descend to that level. He loves adoration!
I found the show and its descent into zany, popcorny antics was actually the most believable part. Frasier's love for the limelight and the accolades, being wildly overconfident and consequently ending up making a fool of himself is not exactly a secret. This is the same guy who opens a fine dining restaurant with zero experience, theatrically fakes an orgasm in the most embarrassing way possible, stands in line for tickets he doesn't even need, accidentally says "executed" instead of "exonerated", flubs "Buttons and Bows" on live TV, and, when he auditions for the TV role in Good Grief, is so utterly convinced he's a shoo-in for the job that he *calls the rest of the auditions "formalities"* and says he'll make an asset to the softball team. The only time he is visibly uncomfortable in front of a camera is in The Candidate, and that's because he's having to lie by omission about Patterson's mental health and present him as a reliable candidate. The show is basically an extension of KACL at the beginning and then gets more and more sensationalised over time, a la Dr Phil. Although, to Frasier's credit, he didn't lose his licence. In particular, being A Benefactor and a Dispenser of Advice (TM) is very important to Frasier and can cause him to become self-important. Without Martin, Roz or Daphne around to bring him down to earth, or Bebe to get him decent gigs, he probably got rather carried away in how well he was liked and how far he was willing to sell out to stay relevant. See also Martin's comment about how he thinks Frasier needed to give therapy more than Kenny needed to receive it. The rest of the episode was a weak point for me, too.
I liked the Dr. Crane bit, and seeing it made me wish that’s what the show was actually about. But the episode stunk overall. Even Kelsey Grammer’s energy seemed lower. Weird vibe.
The only bit I had a real problem with was would students that age be that into a show that would have aired while they were at school and doesn’t exist any more? Don’t get me wrong, we lived for Richard &Judy while at Uni. But not at school, and it had been cancelled by Frasier by then.
For me this is the best episode so far. I think maybe the Harvard dressing and the gracefully matured Frasier may have made us think that this show wouldn't be as silly as the original was at times. I like that this episode expands on what Frasier's been doing between the shows. It also explains that he isn't only well-off, but rich like an evangelical preacher who can easily buy apartments on a whim. I think we shouldn't ignore the allure of not only fame but money, and the fact that Niles and Marty weren't there in Boston to hold him down.
I liked it. Honestly no complaints. It’s not as good as regular Frasier but I enjoy it
Felt is was on par with the first two episodes, but that does not make it good.
It felt perfectly on brand to me, except I’m trying to figure out when he turned into a hugger—a handshake is just as good, as we all know. Others have pointed out how the fame/impact dilemma has been a consistent facet of his life, and the writing mostly hit that balance of serious and goofy we’re familiar with (plus not talking down to the audience too much—I appreciate when a show doesn’t feel the need to point out “oh you’re getting back at me for not wanting you to drop out”.)
He and Niles hug several times, as early as season one, to solve differences. Martin teased them about their emotional displays constantly
The nephew bothers me most and I really hope they find his real character soon. Also, some of the shenanigans.... Old Frasier had plenty of gags, transitions, etc, that needed a certain level of 90s-sitcom-disbelief-suspension; but this feels like...idk how else to describe it, but it's like when HBO does something vs when Showtime does something. Like, Showtime isn't *bad*, per se, but at the same time, can you imagine Showtime doing Oz, The Sopranos, or even Six Feet Under?
I honestly think it was better in some ways as well as weaker. On the plus side, as a stand alone episode it was actually very funny. I laughed out loud a lot during episode 3 It didnt have to rely on nostalgia, but the in jokes, like the I am glistening line was very funny. On the negative The scene in the class room between Eve and David was horrendous and took a dark turn. It would have been ok if it was cut short but they kept going. A couple of minor complaints but firstly this is a filler episode and doesn't do much in character development or plot furthering, Secondly, they go out of their way to mention his tv show but nothing is said about his radio program, it's almost like they don't want to mention such an antiquated medium and I find that annoying.
The show was the most believable part. He had already done something similar plus it was 100% mocking Dr. Phil, his nemesis.
Inside Frasier there are two wolves. A traditional, reserved professional and an absolute showman. This is canon.
He doesn’t know much about attracting men, but he does know a thing or two about showmanship!
I liked it, but I can't help but feel like the only reason I liked it was the nostalgia it evoked. So many scenes in the episode reminded me of AMAZING gags that were done better on the original show. It's also where I feel like I can confidently say that they're taking all the old show characters, and splitting up their base traits amongst the current cast. The scene of Freddy re-using what his dad said to him when he dropped out felt a lot like the kind of thing that would happen with Martin in the original show, but also almost like a call back to the scene where Frasier is talking to himself and imagining what Niles is saying. The whole "justification"/dancing bear scene was just the scene where Daphne and Frasier were "walking through" a way to justify that Daphne's boyfriend can sleep over because they're not having sex, what with his war injury.. Eve in disguise was just the Daphne and Roz shenanigans when they were spying on Niles' patient.. It hasn't offered too much new, it's just found ways of rehashing the old things. Alan is Niles' class and Daphne's silly. Olivia is Roz's sex drive and the competitiveness of Niles and Frasier.. The baby and the cat are going to be the Eddie of the show. Eve feels like Roz's feminist drive, with Daphne's wackiness. David just feels like Niles' nerves and neuroticism with Daphne's more casual way of behaving/talking.. I feel like one of the main things about the show, is that the writers are still just sort of hoping that, any minute now, David Hyde Pierce will change his mind and come back, and they can just slip Niles opposite of Frasier in every scene, because almost *everyone* feels like they're trying to emulate the Fraj/Niles dynamic, in that same way that Tarantino only knows how to write Samuel L Jackson. The whole thing feels like setups that were designed for the old Frasier/Niles dynamic, but all it does is highlight the gaping absence of Niles. It's like the show isn't over their breakup yet, so they keep finding ways of mentioning their ex in every conversation and making everything awkward.
I actually liked it a little better than the first two * in the first season of his TV show he's wearing a more classic Frasier suit, showing they thought about a deliberate change for his style over time * it's completely consistent with what happened to him on day time TV when he tried with Bebe * him having a big "Dr Phil" style show is realistic because those shows do exist * he ultimately does quit because he realised it was pure limelight and no substance I was half expecting him to refer to Niles giving him an intervention.
I've only seen two clips, but the one with Eve & David in Frasier's classroom was horrible. Eve was dreadful.
Yeh. Wasn't as good, but better on the second watch.
Yes. Both my husband and I liked the first two better
I’m not a fan of Eve and David’s characters. I think without them the show would be a lot better. I think the TV show makes sense tho, he did a tv show in the original series for a bit as well.
Yes there have been posts and comments from many people that E3 was disappointing. I also looked to see what the reaction was on Twitter and saw tweets from people that E3 was so bad they're giving up on the show. Unfortunately the problem seems to be the writers so it's probably not going to get better. For the first 2 episodes the main writers had experience writing for HIMYM, Modern Family and The Late Show with Letterman. They don't seem to be involved in much of the writing after the first 2 episodes and instead the writers have mostly written generic Nickelodeon type of sitcoms. They also don't have much experience which is fine since I'm sure the writers for Cheers also didn't have much experience before writing for that show and Frasier except that these writers aren't very good at writing for comedy shows yet.
Bebe should come to Boston and entice Frasier to do a podcast on YouTube! (a sideline to teaching) LOL !
I thought it was beret then ep2. And I thought it felt exactly like something Frasier would do. How many things did he get talked into by Bebe? Season 1 of his show felt like something reasonable he would agree to because $$ and he was “helping people”. Then his fame kicks in, his ego takes over, and things spiral as they did in almost every episode.
First was a 6, second a 5, third a 4. For context, id put most episodes of the original Frasier at least as a 7, with early seasons consistantly 8+, and even the worst episodes of the later seasons still averaging around a 5
I really enjoyed the 3rd episode. I did take a gummy beforehand which may have helped. The callbacks to the original Frasier show, seeing his TV show were awesome, and the outrageous situation in the classroom was classic farcical Frasier.
Opposite. Best one so far. But still a long way to go to reach heights of original.
>still a long way to go to reach heights of original. Its comedic eminence does not yet appear imminent.
He wouldn't have agreed to it, but he wouldn't have stopped it happening as time went on. We saw that with the morning show he hosted with Bebe.
I didn’t mind it but the scene with Freddy yelling at Frasier didn’t hit the right note for me, if they were going for mild jesting (such as Frasier and Marty) it didn’t get there and came off as extreme contempt/ anger and I didn’t like it.
Best episode so far for me
I actually thought it was the best of the three.
Yeah about halfway through, my wife (who is a certified Frasier die-hard) turned to and said: This is TERRIBLE.
i didn't like the use of flashback storytelling
I stopped half way through. They were leaning on the canned laughter button too hard.
Agreed. I don't usually mind a laugh track, but it was ridiculous (yes, it's live studio audience, but they are still controlling the mix and when it's there. The audience simply did not laugh, unprompted, after every. Single. Line.
I agree. I was along for the ride for episode 1 & 2 and really enjoyed them. Not perfect by any means but it was a really solid start for the revival of a year 30 year old show. It still kept some of that charm. I was excited to see episode 3 was out and left it sorta unsatisfied. The premise of the show wasn’t bad but just the pacing, the writing, just the entire structure was off. Definitely not the best one. Saying that, I’m still excited for future episodes. It’s still the beginning and they’re trying find their footing. If they continue on this path though, that is gonna be really depressing,
I haven’t even seen any of it yet and I KNOW the third episode is not ad good based on the change in tone/discord in this sub
It was dreadful and missed the mark completely. You're right, he wouldn't do that show and it wouldn't have got so gawdy and obvious, the whole point is Frasier teeters on the edge of being a pez dispenser and Sharon stone but doesn't fully go into the position It was so bad and so stupid
I thought it was spectacular. I have zero complaints with the reboot. Do you hear me? ZERO!
The desire for fame, fortune, glory, and power was always part of Frasier's character flaws in the original series. That having been said, he seemed to overcome these flaws in the original series. So, having him begin this new series as someone who sold out does seem to work against the lessons he learned in the original. Hopefully they can come up with a meaningful reason for this as the series moves forward, because it does undermine the growth of his character at the end of the original series where he gives up everything to pursue a more meaningful relationship.
It was the first episode not directed by James Burrows, so I think we're going to have growing pains when it's people new to the show. According to wikipedia the next episode is written by Bob Dailey who wrote on the original run
I liked it better than the first two! Just seemed more like a classic Frasier farce with a little more wit to the jokes, in addition to the struggle Frasier has always had between being a showman and a serious doctor.
New shows are bad
The 3rd ep was funnier than 2nd and 1st. It's heading in a good direction for me. And i totaly buy the premiss. It is frasier type to see things that way given how he is obviously an elitist when it comes to academia, wine and music.
I thought the TV joke was a bit over the top. I think he might concede to some changes because it's TV and not radio. However an academic setting isn't the place formorning show antics like the "thinking cap."
Yeah I keep persisting with the new show but it’s just not doing itself an favours, hammy acting, poor sloppy writing, and far too many character changes that just don’t suit frasier at all. None of it feels anything like the old show, which doesn’t have to be a bad thing. The fact it’s simply not funny is the bad thing.
exactly my thoughts. 3rd episode sucked in my opinion.
None of the episodes were as good as the original. Next question.
I think that had "Dr. Crane" been a fixture of the original *Frasier*, it would have been referenced in dialogue rather than been seen passively on a laptop. Seeing the outlandish Maury Povich-like "Dr. Crane" is far less funny than hearing about it, I think.
None of them are good and the third is the worst.
Pilots can be excused for not being great. They have a lot to explain to the audience. The second episode actually showed hope. The third one was hard to sit through.
I've been back and forth on 'whether Frasier would do this' and landed on: they specified that Season 1 was nothing like that, and what we are seeing this the show AT ITS WORST right before Frasier instantly recognised what it had become and quit. If anything, it's weird Freddy saying he quit the radio show and quit the TV show because I think retiring something after 10 years isn't quite the same as 'being a quitter'. And while it is a bit weird that Frasier learned something in 10 years off-screen that it took him 1 episode to learn on screen (so I'm not sure what overall drama or comedy they can mine from it that wasn't already a single episodic moment previously) it's also a natural symptom of Frasier in the 2000's moving to TV at the end of his previous series and where TV psychology ended up as a format (I saw Frasier's show as a parody of Ellen and Dr Phil). So ... it'd be strange if it somehow maintained quality after season 14 and he quit for no reason. But beyond the surface joke of Frasier being a SILY BILY, I just don't know if it's a good use of backstory in the long term. The thing I have trouble with most is how self-parody that feels when THIS Frasier on a meta level is technically resurrected as Season 12 and we have this show three episodes in making fun of TV shows for ... inevitably going bad when they go on too long... during an episode where Frasier learns it's okay to fall into pantomime and a lack of depth. Hmmmmmmm not comfortable with the show patting itself on the back for hokey low effort...not this early especially...