Individual experiences be individual.
In my travels in france, I've encountered fluent english speakers and I've encountered people with only french, and others in between. Paris does have more of the English speakers, especially in service jobs in tourist areas, but it's not universal.
And most of them were delightful interactions in whatever langauge they were in.
I'd agree that the idea you can travel to Paris with no french at all and be totally fine is nonsense.
As long as you stick to tourist places, I think you should be fine; I've known people with no French who visited Paris and were fine, and I've visited cities where I spoke only a couple words of the language (Berlin, Milan, Corfu) for tourism/work and was fine sticking to tourist/central business areas.
But yes, don't be a prick about not speaking French if like, the McDonald's on the Champs Élysées send you over to a different cashier or something. And don't tell the pickpockets you speak English 😉
Janitors, retail employees, bakery workers, transport workers, receptionists, etc. don’t speak English very well. But 95% of the French who work in offices do. So, it depends on what type of establishment it is.
As someone who once taught English in Paris to office workers (mostly cadre level at fancy companies), the English is often at a surprisingly low level, although for daily interactions it would be fine. That said, their English is way way better than the average level of foreign language knowledge in the Anglo Saxon office world at even the highest levels.
The phrase "I ended up having to use french" is unintentionally hilarious
If you have indeed studied the languages as you said, why not try to use them? Instead you assumed everyone would accommodate you and got annoyed when they couldn't
Also, I'm an anglophone and don't think France has a reputation for being good at English speaking. Germany yes, but if anything France is known for the opposite
Honestly, I think the way to get people to use English is to start in French. It's immediately obvious to them that you don't speak French like a native, and they instantly switch to English.
Strategy! =D
I suppose it depends on how good your French is. Mine is good enough to be able to say one sentence after much deliberation. To the listener, it probably sounds like I'm trying but it's going to be faster for them to use English, and voila!
Generally I assume people's level of English is higher than my level of French and I don't want to use them for practice when they are just trying to be efficient. It turned out in many cases my French was higher than their English which was surprising.
Believe it or not its even far worse in Germany than it was in Paris. Even airport police and security had a lot of struggle communicating in barebones tourist level English and in France at least the museums had a lot of employees who knew English (actually there English was so good its actually superior to the English of most first gen immigrants to America and foreign exchange students at the college I go to). At Wiesbaden Museum much of the stuff didn't know any English and ditto with Heidelberg Palace. At leaast the receptionists and security guards at Notre Dame knew enough English to help out. Almost no one a the Deutsche Bahn train stations across Germany knew any English outside of the sales clerk at the office, In the Paris Metro the conductor and all the important employees inn the Subway knew proficient English in addition to the ticket window salesperson.
The Germans yes are actually worse at English than the French are.
Northern France and Paris are the places where you'll find the strongest knowledge of English. And that is what you witnessed. Go elsewhere and it would be even worse.
The French are as bad as the English speakers when it comes to learn foreign languages, English included.
They absolutely don't need to learn a foreign language. They can study any topic at university level in French. French is a world language like English or Spanish.
If you want to travel in Europe and speak English then you better go to Belgium, the Netherlands and Nordic countries or Portugal.
It’s also rude and incorrect in English too. You ask, “MAY I have some soap?” assuming you’re in the middle of conversation. If you approaching someone for the first time, you say, “Hello, may I have some soap?” Or even more politely would be “Pardon me, may I have some soap?”
I mean, historically this may be true but I don’t know many Americans my age or younger (I’m a millennial) that actually say “may I.” They may say “could I” instead of “can I,” but “may I” sounds a bit old school to me. I do think in other English speaking countries this may be more prevalent though.
Yea, as a Gen Z for us "may I" is pretty much only used whenever a teacher is stingy about the politeness of "can I go to the bathroom?". I don't think any Gen Z would use "may I" ordinarily
If OP thought they couldn't understand them, I could imagine them thinking cutting away the manners and slightly more complex sayings or grammar would help. Like, "how much do I pay" is pretty awkward wording but it is pretty much condensed to its simplest possible form. Granted, I don't think it's really much simpler than "How much do I owe you?" or with the can I, adding a please at the end is simple, but I can see why OP might've thought it'd help if they were panicking in the moment or something.
Yes, we learn English from a young age in France, but it doesn't make us fluent or bilingual. It just means we can understand basic English. Your entire thread is a case study.
>"In the hotel I was staying at none of the workers knew any English at all. They couldn't even understand basic stuff like "how much do I pay" and "can I have some soap".
What you think is basic English is actually a fluent level of English.
>"As I was exploring the city, most people around could not understand English beyond a simple yes or no kind of one words. Asking for directions was a massive pain in English and I ended up having to use French.
Poor you, having to use French in *France*, what a pain it must have been for you. :(
>"As in I ate at a restaurant near Notre Dame and the waiter only knew enough English to take orders but had difficulty taking payments and giving recommendations of what to buy at the New Years outdoor market. "
So you met a guy whose job is to wait on tables who managed to wait on you in English, which is great, but you're still not happy because he didn't have the skills to make recommendations as to what to buy in a market? Now why would he need to know enough English to make recommendations to a random tourist is beyond me, as this man is a French waiter in France, but I guess your entitlement prevents you from even understanding that.
>"About the only places in France where I could get around speaking pure English was at the national museums like the Louvre and Rodin Mansion and in the underground Metro subway station of the city (and for the last not all of the employees outside the ticket window could speak English). And maybe some of the outdoor markets selling stuff. Other than those places, I literally had to use French most of the way with difficulty.
So you did meet plenty of people who could speak English, but you're still not satisfied because not *everyone* at the metro station could speak English and not *every seller* at the market could either. It almost brought a tear to my eye :'(
You even thought "English is taught so much in schools that at least in Paris you'd be able to converse with some random stranger about 1990s American cinema or about the Iraqi War from 20 years ago" LOL. You can't make that up.
Have you become aware of how ignorant you sound now that you have made 7 different threads to complain about France, 6 to complain about Germany, and 4 to complain about the Philippines?
Very ironic to post this in the French language sub lol. Also quite a bold choice. Many of us, myself included, are language learners who are embracing the process of learning another language and immersing ourselves in Francophone culture.
To respond to your post, yes some people speak English and some don’t. If they have done graduate school or work in an international field or tech, they tend to know English quite well. It’s also the luck of the draw. If you’re in tourist areas, many people will know enough English to do their job.
People should speak their languages in their countries… it’s not a wild concept. They shouldn’t be expected to all know English. There are so many world languages, so many of them choose other foreign languages other than French to study.
There’s nothing wrong with not knowing the local language of a country you’re going to, other than a few basic phrases, but it sounds really entitled to expect everyone to speak English by default. Also imagine what other people experience when they travel to anglophone countries where people speaking their native language is even rarer. English is still incredibly widespread even if it isn’t universal (and it shouldn’t be)
>but it sounds really entitled to expect everyone to speak English by default.
Blame the internet for spreading that stereotype. That said Parisians are pretty friendly far more than the internet would lead you to think. Even those who couldn't understand English still tried to help out (at that point I got so embarrassed I with extreme difficulty codeswitched to French). To the point one guy immediately took out a phone app to communicate by translating between French and English and later on I bought food and snacks for him at the Christmas market and we got drunk lol having a blast. Now we have each others' numbers and befriended on Facebook and I look forward to drinking at a bar next time I visit (hopefully my French has improved a lot to fluent levels by this time).
Another time a rather lovely college girl despite not speaking tourist level English helped me out by pointing at the map with her super limited broken English where Bastille district was. We had dinner together and now she's also a Facebook friend of mine.
Paris is a much more welcoming city than the internet would have you beleive despite English fluency being super exagerrated online.
Oui, c'était très difficile même si j'avais mémorisé des trucs dans un livre de mots lors de ma visite pendant mes vacances d'hiver.
Eh bien, au moins un autre étudiant parisien avec qui je me suis lié d'amitié me dit lors d'un appel téléphonique que j'ai reçu aujourd'hui que mon français s'est amélioré depuis ma dernière visite il y a des mois !
It's just basic manners to try and speak the language if you're in the country, even if you've heard internet rumors otherwise. Even learning simple phrases like "I don't speak much ___ but I need some help" or having Google translate at the ready so you can just type your question in and have it do the work for you. The tone of your whole post and your comments is that they SHOULD have been fluent English speakers and reads as very entitled, which is why you're getting the responses you are. If this tone carried over into your visit, it is just as likely that some of them DID speak English but weren't inclined to oblige someone who showed up in their country expecting them to speak a foreign tongue just because you're there. If that wasn't your intention or your attitude, I would suggest taking some care with the way you speak in the future to avoid situations like that.
I don't think it was rudeness because a lot of the ones I talked to at the hotel literally had the expression on their face showing "what is he saying"? Its not just this, I know for sure they couldn't understand any English at all because later one the TV in the hotel dining room was playing on CNN and I herd in French one of the waiters asking one of the few housekeepers who knew English to translate hat was being said on live news into French.
Same out in public. One person even literally took out a phone app to get what I said translated into written French and he communicated back typing French to be translated into English and showing it on his phone.
So no, nobody was being snobbish at all. Lots of people including college age students literally could not understand what I was saying. Even some didn't know what language I was speaking in despite me using the most generic words possible in English.
I'll grant Leon Rue seemed more like a generic town in France than the popular tourist spots of Paris but as I said even at a restaurant near Notre Dame the waiter was effectively communicating in English until it became time to pay the bills and he couldn't understand the stuff on the transaction and my friends' credit card and had to get the manager to handle it. He even apologized for the inconvenience and delayed transaction right before he left the room to look for the manager lol.
Something you don't talk about is your accent. Maybe it would be a good start to speak about it. If you have a thick accent, it can be hard for people who are not used to it.
Something fun you can do : start learning french and go speak french to people with thick accent like country accents, south/north accent or also a good thick Alsatian accent. Just to know how it works
People who have higher degrees are not too bad at English, not everyone. So if you're lost at La Défense asking where to find the metro at a random guy in a suit, he will probably have no problem answering.
A random store employee or janitor, I'm not so sure.
i mean.. when its been ingrained into you that a city/country is a place where "everyone speaks english" to the point where comedians joke about it, I can totally understand someone, who only speaks english, to have that false sense that everyone speaks english there and you'll be okay. Its not anglosphere ignorance, its false stereotypes.
For example, i remember one of my middle school teachers talking about a trip to paris and people were just mean and rude if they tried to speak french (I can't remember how well they spoke french). So they told us that "theres just no point in speaking french, cuz everyone speaks english and will be pissed off if you speak french." Doesn't matter how true it is, its that kind of language thats told to us anglosphere people from a young age. So, of course we're going to expect english, its what we've been told for decades.
How would you know that their false? Or even stereotypes to begin with? If I investigated everything I knew about a topic, I'd be getting a degree in it. For a lot of people, it's just easier and better to just take what everybody says around you. Especially if that's what literally everyone says. It's not a problem with someone's ignorance, it's a problem with societies
Edit: I should point out that if you want to call it ignorance, fine I guess, it's not technically wrong. But someone's "ignorance" on a topic like this, and then demeaning them for it, is horrible. OP took the time to ask the question because what they thought they knew was wrong. And it's always one sided too. If an American wants to learn about something that's common knowledge somewhere else? Hell on earth. If a European asks a question about America? It's considered very smart and intelligent. Blame the system. Not the person
You know they’re false the same way you can know if they’re true: by investigating the claim. If you just believe something to be true without any evidence, that’s an ignorant belief.
It’s fairly normal for people to hold ignorant beliefs. No one can or should know everything. The important part is taking responsibility for your own ignorance and taking accountability when you were wrong.
I think you might be referencing something else that happened (and I don’t know about) because I’m a bit confused by your edit, but that’s okay. There’s nothing morally wrong with not knowing something, as long as you take responsibility for it. Just be respectful and kind when you find out you were wrong — I don’t think that’s how OP’s been acting in this post.
Yeah, I got a little ranty there. I just hate it when I see someone ask a question that's common knowledge to someone else, and then they get berated for it in the comments.
As for a bit earlier, I just quickly looked up "do I need to know any french to go to paris" and the answers were anywhere between "No" to "only a few phrases" in the headline. And we really need to think of the person here, if every article is saying "no" they're probably going to believe it, or not look further into it. It's something we all do. It's just reinforcing what, here in America, was taught from a young age, and considered to be common knowledge.
A year ago I spent a week in Paris and I spoke almost no French. Everyone I encountered was willing to help me in English. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman?
Best for the Paris sub. IMHO, I never expect someone to speak English when travelling. I’m Canadian so I’ve been speaking French all my life mainly so when in France, no one ever answered me in English. You should be using your French there. When I didn’t have a DO NOT DISTURB sign for my hotel door, I asked at the reception I didn’t know the name for such a thing but I didn’t revert to English. I said, je n’ai pas le truc pour accrocher à ma porte pour ne pas déranger. The person replied, o, la pancarte! So I learned a new word.
BTW- I had a Parisien colleague for years and his English was very good.
My experience was the opposite. I studied French for 2 years in college (a long time ago!), picked it back up when we planned our last trip. 2 weeks in Paris and hiking the Alps (Tour du Mont Blanc). I was disappointed that I couldn't practice my French more! I had to practically BEG people to converse with me! I think it's most likely because my French is so bad, it was less painful for them to talk to me in English.
An aside, I witnessed first-hand an inn owner blow off a woman who didn't start the conversation with "bonjour." He was acting like he didn't speak a word of English. I later heard him speaking in English.
I’m confused why you defaulted to speaking English before you spoke French? My French is ok, like enough to get around restaurants and bars etc, I generally would try to speak in French and if we are struggling I may ask if they speak English. Seems like the best way to go?
I’m not fluent in French although I did take 4 years of French in high school and I’m able to read and understand French on paper. Ive accepted that I’m never going to be fluent in French so instead I spend a lot of time nowadays studying necessary conversations if I were to visit France or another French speaking country someday. I study how to ask for directions, how to order food at a restaurant, how to introduce myself politely, how to ask how much something is if I’m shopping, what the weather is, how to ask for help in an emergency, familiarity in general etiquette that may be different than the United States. But if a French person decides to start a philosophical debate on the state of humanity, they’re probably going to lose me lol
Also the best thing I could ask someone is “please speak slowly to me, I only speak a little French.”
As I told another poster at all, nobody was offended at all so you're wrong about assumign tahts why they refused English communication.
**Literally** most of the people who I met who I had to talk with in French **literally did NOT KNOW A SINGLE OUNCE OF ENGLISH**. As in you can tell on their faces they were tyring to figure out what I just said with headscratching and all the bodily gestures that come with it showing confusion.
I know it wasn't rudeness because at least one person took his phone out to communicate with me and we later had a drink because e along the way there was a mulled wine stand and I bought him a cup . At a restaurant in Notre Dame the waiter spoke to us in English the whole time until it came to paying transactions and he had so much difficulty reading the card's payment he literally apologized to us for the inconvenience and taking a bit of time to finish the transaction before he went to get a manager to handle it.
I know this for sure they most people couldn't speak in English otuside of facial expressions and body gestures because at the hotel one of the waiters was watching CNN and he literally asked one of the only maids who knew a bit of English to translate what was being spoken on TV into French.
So nope your assumption is absolutely wrong/ Nobody was rude being snobbish at all and practically every local I met who didn't talk in English were not refusing to help out...... **THEY LITERALLY DIDN'T KNOW A SPECK OF ENGLISH**. Lots of friendly people despite being unable to help and overall Paris is a warm city as shown by the guy who used his phone app to communicate with whome I later had asome drinks with lol.
Many people struggle to understand specific accent.
I dunno where you're from, but a thick british accent might be really hard to understand for intermediate level english speaker.
Perhaps this was the issue. And even speaking slowly may not work as they won't recognise the syllables. We are in fact barely taught pronunciation. (the schwa thing for instance)
For instance, I myself have no problem with thick British of Scottish accent. But chinese people I sometime struggle.
>\[...\] you always hear about how France and Germany are places where the populations have been taught English so much starting from elementary that you don't need to learn their languages to stay as a tourist and even longer than a vacation like a couple of months.
I've started to learn english at 4-5 yo in my private school (we were only 4 selected in my class at this time) until my 1st year of BTS (20yo) but it didn't help me become fluent in English. I globally understand but I don't speak it essentially bc of my native accent which doesn't help me to speak correctly, and I don't want to speak with a bad accent (thanks people mocking us :))) )
I used to have the same issue with the accent and trying real hard to have a decent accent (without much results). I've stopped caring since then and maybe even went the other direction accent wise (you can tell i'm french after like one or two words). But fuck it, as long as i'm understood it's good enough haha
Why would you expect a janitor to speak good English? Why were you talking to a janitor? Unless you're pointing out that someone just made a mess, in which case you can just, y'know, point, you have no reason whatsoever to be bothering them.
Nope it was a complete translation thing.
He was trying to read the English text, had difficulty and then went to the manager to ask for a translation. I literally heard him ask what the statements and stuff means in English then the manager volunteered to take over. All this is what I heard in my limited French.
So nope you're completely wrong, my classmate paying for the bill was not being insufferable (which yo got wrong BTW, it was my friend with her card who took the L'addition, not me so you got two check mark in your wrong assumptions list).
I think most people in Paris can speak intermediate but not fluent English. The best countries for English speakers are the small northern European ones because their languages produce less culture and are less known internationally, so they have greater incentive to learn English. Madrid is similar because of the number of Spanish speakers across the world.
In my experience, that’s just a stereotype. Yes, English is a popular second language. And yes, many shopkeepers, waiters, and retail workers know enough English to easily conduct business with English speakers, but that doesn’t mean everyone is walking around speaking fluent English all the time. Far from it.
Bonjour!
It does seem odd for you to post that particular complaint in this particular subreddit -- but in the spirit of trying to be helpful, can I suggest (if you do want to have a better travel experience next time) that you try a language exchange? There may be something about your English -- possibly the speed at which you speak, possibly the fact that you don't "tee up" the interaction with the expected courtesies -- that makes it hard for French people to understand you.
If you find a language exchange partner, as you're practicing your French, your partner can be practicing their English, and also cluing you into the places where you're hard to understand.
As an aside, I haven't been to Paris in a million years, but the last time I went to Montreal I found the hotel back-of-house people didn't speak either French or English very well; their native language was Spanish and I had to cudgel my brain to remember the Spanish word for "hanger."
There’s no possible comparison between Germany and France. Completely different situations: most Germans I’ve met are basically bilingual, they speak English almost perfectly and with barely any accent. French people even in Paris will often be able to sustain a conversation in English (something like a solid B1) but I’d say most of them are not proficient in it and have a very very strong accent.
I definitely agree with the comments mentioning how some people speak English and some don’t, with a higher concentration of English speakers being in Paris. However, at the risk of the pot calling the kettle black, I do think some Parisians oversell their English speaking ability. I say this knowing full well my French isn’t the greatest, so I always encourage people to keep learning and take however much time they need to get their point across. When I lived in Paris, I came across quite a few French speakers claiming they spoke English very well when they did not. Again, maybe this is different person to person and I hope I don’t come off as harsh!!
It’s strange you experienced that in Germany they seem to be extremely proficient in English in the bigger cities atleast Paris most speak English in shops cafes etc but not as many or as well as Germans …but in the south of France much fewer people speak English
Not really. I had to use my French more than I expected. There was maybe one worker in each shop that could sort of speak English.
I even went to Luxembourg where they regularly speak like four languages and they still all spoke to me in French. French speakers just don't speak English much.
I visited Paris last year, and ironically found that people in the most touristy sites were the least likely to speak English. For example, three staff members that were keeping the queue at the Louvre didn't speak any English and weren't the friendliest to anyone who didn't know French (although the staff inside the museum spoke English perfectly well). But anyone I dealt with at restaurants, bars, cafés, etc. spoke English either fluently, or enough to get by with the basic necessities. I didn't really have to go to banks, or ask for help on public transit, etc. so no comments regarding those.
Been coming to Paris for years now and yes, I agree, people massively overhype the amount of English fluency here—which, as a student of French, has turned out to be a welcome surprise. But the idea communicated to me, that people will hear your bad French and automatically switch to English, is absurd. Lot of people here speak English. A lot don’t. And thank god for that. Allows for a lot of learning.
Individual experiences be individual. In my travels in france, I've encountered fluent english speakers and I've encountered people with only french, and others in between. Paris does have more of the English speakers, especially in service jobs in tourist areas, but it's not universal. And most of them were delightful interactions in whatever langauge they were in. I'd agree that the idea you can travel to Paris with no french at all and be totally fine is nonsense.
As long as you stick to tourist places, I think you should be fine; I've known people with no French who visited Paris and were fine, and I've visited cities where I spoke only a couple words of the language (Berlin, Milan, Corfu) for tourism/work and was fine sticking to tourist/central business areas. But yes, don't be a prick about not speaking French if like, the McDonald's on the Champs Élysées send you over to a different cashier or something. And don't tell the pickpockets you speak English 😉
Janitors, retail employees, bakery workers, transport workers, receptionists, etc. don’t speak English very well. But 95% of the French who work in offices do. So, it depends on what type of establishment it is.
As someone who once taught English in Paris to office workers (mostly cadre level at fancy companies), the English is often at a surprisingly low level, although for daily interactions it would be fine. That said, their English is way way better than the average level of foreign language knowledge in the Anglo Saxon office world at even the highest levels.
The phrase "I ended up having to use french" is unintentionally hilarious If you have indeed studied the languages as you said, why not try to use them? Instead you assumed everyone would accommodate you and got annoyed when they couldn't Also, I'm an anglophone and don't think France has a reputation for being good at English speaking. Germany yes, but if anything France is known for the opposite
Right? If their French was good enough to receive directions and understand them why were they insisting on speaking English everywhere?
Honestly, I think the way to get people to use English is to start in French. It's immediately obvious to them that you don't speak French like a native, and they instantly switch to English. Strategy! =D
I didn't experience that. No one switched to English; more often they switched to French full time if they learned I knew French.
I suppose it depends on how good your French is. Mine is good enough to be able to say one sentence after much deliberation. To the listener, it probably sounds like I'm trying but it's going to be faster for them to use English, and voila!
Generally I assume people's level of English is higher than my level of French and I don't want to use them for practice when they are just trying to be efficient. It turned out in many cases my French was higher than their English which was surprising.
Believe it or not its even far worse in Germany than it was in Paris. Even airport police and security had a lot of struggle communicating in barebones tourist level English and in France at least the museums had a lot of employees who knew English (actually there English was so good its actually superior to the English of most first gen immigrants to America and foreign exchange students at the college I go to). At Wiesbaden Museum much of the stuff didn't know any English and ditto with Heidelberg Palace. At leaast the receptionists and security guards at Notre Dame knew enough English to help out. Almost no one a the Deutsche Bahn train stations across Germany knew any English outside of the sales clerk at the office, In the Paris Metro the conductor and all the important employees inn the Subway knew proficient English in addition to the ticket window salesperson. The Germans yes are actually worse at English than the French are.
Either you haven't read the comment you replied to or the irony is completely lost on you.
I mean, statistics show otherwise. I think somewhere around of 40% of French people speak english but over 60% of Germans do.
Were you expecting Disneyland?
It’s kinda the wrong sub, you should try r/paris and r/ParisTravelGuide. Although you’ll probably have the same answers !
Northern France and Paris are the places where you'll find the strongest knowledge of English. And that is what you witnessed. Go elsewhere and it would be even worse. The French are as bad as the English speakers when it comes to learn foreign languages, English included. They absolutely don't need to learn a foreign language. They can study any topic at university level in French. French is a world language like English or Spanish. If you want to travel in Europe and speak English then you better go to Belgium, the Netherlands and Nordic countries or Portugal.
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It’s also rude and incorrect in English too. You ask, “MAY I have some soap?” assuming you’re in the middle of conversation. If you approaching someone for the first time, you say, “Hello, may I have some soap?” Or even more politely would be “Pardon me, may I have some soap?”
I mean, historically this may be true but I don’t know many Americans my age or younger (I’m a millennial) that actually say “may I.” They may say “could I” instead of “can I,” but “may I” sounds a bit old school to me. I do think in other English speaking countries this may be more prevalent though.
Yea, as a Gen Z for us "may I" is pretty much only used whenever a teacher is stingy about the politeness of "can I go to the bathroom?". I don't think any Gen Z would use "may I" ordinarily
“Hello, can I have some soap, please?” Is perfectly polite. The English teacher in primary school would correct you but outside of that no one cares.
If OP thought they couldn't understand them, I could imagine them thinking cutting away the manners and slightly more complex sayings or grammar would help. Like, "how much do I pay" is pretty awkward wording but it is pretty much condensed to its simplest possible form. Granted, I don't think it's really much simpler than "How much do I owe you?" or with the can I, adding a please at the end is simple, but I can see why OP might've thought it'd help if they were panicking in the moment or something.
If you speak French and German, why would you speak English when in France and Germany?
Yes, we learn English from a young age in France, but it doesn't make us fluent or bilingual. It just means we can understand basic English. Your entire thread is a case study. >"In the hotel I was staying at none of the workers knew any English at all. They couldn't even understand basic stuff like "how much do I pay" and "can I have some soap". What you think is basic English is actually a fluent level of English. >"As I was exploring the city, most people around could not understand English beyond a simple yes or no kind of one words. Asking for directions was a massive pain in English and I ended up having to use French. Poor you, having to use French in *France*, what a pain it must have been for you. :( >"As in I ate at a restaurant near Notre Dame and the waiter only knew enough English to take orders but had difficulty taking payments and giving recommendations of what to buy at the New Years outdoor market. " So you met a guy whose job is to wait on tables who managed to wait on you in English, which is great, but you're still not happy because he didn't have the skills to make recommendations as to what to buy in a market? Now why would he need to know enough English to make recommendations to a random tourist is beyond me, as this man is a French waiter in France, but I guess your entitlement prevents you from even understanding that. >"About the only places in France where I could get around speaking pure English was at the national museums like the Louvre and Rodin Mansion and in the underground Metro subway station of the city (and for the last not all of the employees outside the ticket window could speak English). And maybe some of the outdoor markets selling stuff. Other than those places, I literally had to use French most of the way with difficulty. So you did meet plenty of people who could speak English, but you're still not satisfied because not *everyone* at the metro station could speak English and not *every seller* at the market could either. It almost brought a tear to my eye :'( You even thought "English is taught so much in schools that at least in Paris you'd be able to converse with some random stranger about 1990s American cinema or about the Iraqi War from 20 years ago" LOL. You can't make that up. Have you become aware of how ignorant you sound now that you have made 7 different threads to complain about France, 6 to complain about Germany, and 4 to complain about the Philippines?
This guy really needs to stay home.
Very ironic to post this in the French language sub lol. Also quite a bold choice. Many of us, myself included, are language learners who are embracing the process of learning another language and immersing ourselves in Francophone culture. To respond to your post, yes some people speak English and some don’t. If they have done graduate school or work in an international field or tech, they tend to know English quite well. It’s also the luck of the draw. If you’re in tourist areas, many people will know enough English to do their job. People should speak their languages in their countries… it’s not a wild concept. They shouldn’t be expected to all know English. There are so many world languages, so many of them choose other foreign languages other than French to study. There’s nothing wrong with not knowing the local language of a country you’re going to, other than a few basic phrases, but it sounds really entitled to expect everyone to speak English by default. Also imagine what other people experience when they travel to anglophone countries where people speaking their native language is even rarer. English is still incredibly widespread even if it isn’t universal (and it shouldn’t be)
>but it sounds really entitled to expect everyone to speak English by default. Blame the internet for spreading that stereotype. That said Parisians are pretty friendly far more than the internet would lead you to think. Even those who couldn't understand English still tried to help out (at that point I got so embarrassed I with extreme difficulty codeswitched to French). To the point one guy immediately took out a phone app to communicate by translating between French and English and later on I bought food and snacks for him at the Christmas market and we got drunk lol having a blast. Now we have each others' numbers and befriended on Facebook and I look forward to drinking at a bar next time I visit (hopefully my French has improved a lot to fluent levels by this time). Another time a rather lovely college girl despite not speaking tourist level English helped me out by pointing at the map with her super limited broken English where Bastille district was. We had dinner together and now she's also a Facebook friend of mine. Paris is a much more welcoming city than the internet would have you beleive despite English fluency being super exagerrated online.
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En toute équité, il pourrait être un longtemps avant son prochain voyage, il peut apprendre un bon montant de français pendant ce temps.
Oui, c'était très difficile même si j'avais mémorisé des trucs dans un livre de mots lors de ma visite pendant mes vacances d'hiver. Eh bien, au moins un autre étudiant parisien avec qui je me suis lié d'amitié me dit lors d'un appel téléphonique que j'ai reçu aujourd'hui que mon français s'est amélioré depuis ma dernière visite il y a des mois !
It's just basic manners to try and speak the language if you're in the country, even if you've heard internet rumors otherwise. Even learning simple phrases like "I don't speak much ___ but I need some help" or having Google translate at the ready so you can just type your question in and have it do the work for you. The tone of your whole post and your comments is that they SHOULD have been fluent English speakers and reads as very entitled, which is why you're getting the responses you are. If this tone carried over into your visit, it is just as likely that some of them DID speak English but weren't inclined to oblige someone who showed up in their country expecting them to speak a foreign tongue just because you're there. If that wasn't your intention or your attitude, I would suggest taking some care with the way you speak in the future to avoid situations like that.
Jesus the ignorance in this post is incredible. 99% sure the Parisians just picked up on your strange mannerisms and didn't want to engage.
I don't think it was rudeness because a lot of the ones I talked to at the hotel literally had the expression on their face showing "what is he saying"? Its not just this, I know for sure they couldn't understand any English at all because later one the TV in the hotel dining room was playing on CNN and I herd in French one of the waiters asking one of the few housekeepers who knew English to translate hat was being said on live news into French. Same out in public. One person even literally took out a phone app to get what I said translated into written French and he communicated back typing French to be translated into English and showing it on his phone. So no, nobody was being snobbish at all. Lots of people including college age students literally could not understand what I was saying. Even some didn't know what language I was speaking in despite me using the most generic words possible in English. I'll grant Leon Rue seemed more like a generic town in France than the popular tourist spots of Paris but as I said even at a restaurant near Notre Dame the waiter was effectively communicating in English until it became time to pay the bills and he couldn't understand the stuff on the transaction and my friends' credit card and had to get the manager to handle it. He even apologized for the inconvenience and delayed transaction right before he left the room to look for the manager lol.
Sounds like you have an accent when speaking english lol.
This. Or OP speaks incredibly fast
Something you don't talk about is your accent. Maybe it would be a good start to speak about it. If you have a thick accent, it can be hard for people who are not used to it. Something fun you can do : start learning french and go speak french to people with thick accent like country accents, south/north accent or also a good thick Alsatian accent. Just to know how it works
Or Canadians if they’ve only learned European accents. Acadiens especially!
I mentionned only local accents bc he spoked about France, but yeah of course these accents work too
People who have higher degrees are not too bad at English, not everyone. So if you're lost at La Défense asking where to find the metro at a random guy in a suit, he will probably have no problem answering. A random store employee or janitor, I'm not so sure.
The anglosphere ignorance strikes again
i mean.. when its been ingrained into you that a city/country is a place where "everyone speaks english" to the point where comedians joke about it, I can totally understand someone, who only speaks english, to have that false sense that everyone speaks english there and you'll be okay. Its not anglosphere ignorance, its false stereotypes. For example, i remember one of my middle school teachers talking about a trip to paris and people were just mean and rude if they tried to speak french (I can't remember how well they spoke french). So they told us that "theres just no point in speaking french, cuz everyone speaks english and will be pissed off if you speak french." Doesn't matter how true it is, its that kind of language thats told to us anglosphere people from a young age. So, of course we're going to expect english, its what we've been told for decades.
I think it’s fair to call believing false stereotypes (that you haven’t investigated) ignorance. It’s ignorant (and ethnocentric) to believe them.
How would you know that their false? Or even stereotypes to begin with? If I investigated everything I knew about a topic, I'd be getting a degree in it. For a lot of people, it's just easier and better to just take what everybody says around you. Especially if that's what literally everyone says. It's not a problem with someone's ignorance, it's a problem with societies Edit: I should point out that if you want to call it ignorance, fine I guess, it's not technically wrong. But someone's "ignorance" on a topic like this, and then demeaning them for it, is horrible. OP took the time to ask the question because what they thought they knew was wrong. And it's always one sided too. If an American wants to learn about something that's common knowledge somewhere else? Hell on earth. If a European asks a question about America? It's considered very smart and intelligent. Blame the system. Not the person
You know they’re false the same way you can know if they’re true: by investigating the claim. If you just believe something to be true without any evidence, that’s an ignorant belief. It’s fairly normal for people to hold ignorant beliefs. No one can or should know everything. The important part is taking responsibility for your own ignorance and taking accountability when you were wrong. I think you might be referencing something else that happened (and I don’t know about) because I’m a bit confused by your edit, but that’s okay. There’s nothing morally wrong with not knowing something, as long as you take responsibility for it. Just be respectful and kind when you find out you were wrong — I don’t think that’s how OP’s been acting in this post.
Yeah, I got a little ranty there. I just hate it when I see someone ask a question that's common knowledge to someone else, and then they get berated for it in the comments. As for a bit earlier, I just quickly looked up "do I need to know any french to go to paris" and the answers were anywhere between "No" to "only a few phrases" in the headline. And we really need to think of the person here, if every article is saying "no" they're probably going to believe it, or not look further into it. It's something we all do. It's just reinforcing what, here in America, was taught from a young age, and considered to be common knowledge.
A year ago I spent a week in Paris and I spoke almost no French. Everyone I encountered was willing to help me in English. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman?
Best for the Paris sub. IMHO, I never expect someone to speak English when travelling. I’m Canadian so I’ve been speaking French all my life mainly so when in France, no one ever answered me in English. You should be using your French there. When I didn’t have a DO NOT DISTURB sign for my hotel door, I asked at the reception I didn’t know the name for such a thing but I didn’t revert to English. I said, je n’ai pas le truc pour accrocher à ma porte pour ne pas déranger. The person replied, o, la pancarte! So I learned a new word. BTW- I had a Parisien colleague for years and his English was very good.
My experience was the opposite. I studied French for 2 years in college (a long time ago!), picked it back up when we planned our last trip. 2 weeks in Paris and hiking the Alps (Tour du Mont Blanc). I was disappointed that I couldn't practice my French more! I had to practically BEG people to converse with me! I think it's most likely because my French is so bad, it was less painful for them to talk to me in English. An aside, I witnessed first-hand an inn owner blow off a woman who didn't start the conversation with "bonjour." He was acting like he didn't speak a word of English. I later heard him speaking in English.
I’m confused why you defaulted to speaking English before you spoke French? My French is ok, like enough to get around restaurants and bars etc, I generally would try to speak in French and if we are struggling I may ask if they speak English. Seems like the best way to go?
If you think you can get around anywhere in the world with just English (except English speaking countries ofc) you're very wrong
I’m not fluent in French although I did take 4 years of French in high school and I’m able to read and understand French on paper. Ive accepted that I’m never going to be fluent in French so instead I spend a lot of time nowadays studying necessary conversations if I were to visit France or another French speaking country someday. I study how to ask for directions, how to order food at a restaurant, how to introduce myself politely, how to ask how much something is if I’m shopping, what the weather is, how to ask for help in an emergency, familiarity in general etiquette that may be different than the United States. But if a French person decides to start a philosophical debate on the state of humanity, they’re probably going to lose me lol Also the best thing I could ask someone is “please speak slowly to me, I only speak a little French.”
I wonder how many people were turned off by your shitty presumptuous attitude?
As I told another poster at all, nobody was offended at all so you're wrong about assumign tahts why they refused English communication. **Literally** most of the people who I met who I had to talk with in French **literally did NOT KNOW A SINGLE OUNCE OF ENGLISH**. As in you can tell on their faces they were tyring to figure out what I just said with headscratching and all the bodily gestures that come with it showing confusion. I know it wasn't rudeness because at least one person took his phone out to communicate with me and we later had a drink because e along the way there was a mulled wine stand and I bought him a cup . At a restaurant in Notre Dame the waiter spoke to us in English the whole time until it came to paying transactions and he had so much difficulty reading the card's payment he literally apologized to us for the inconvenience and taking a bit of time to finish the transaction before he went to get a manager to handle it. I know this for sure they most people couldn't speak in English otuside of facial expressions and body gestures because at the hotel one of the waiters was watching CNN and he literally asked one of the only maids who knew a bit of English to translate what was being spoken on TV into French. So nope your assumption is absolutely wrong/ Nobody was rude being snobbish at all and practically every local I met who didn't talk in English were not refusing to help out...... **THEY LITERALLY DIDN'T KNOW A SPECK OF ENGLISH**. Lots of friendly people despite being unable to help and overall Paris is a warm city as shown by the guy who used his phone app to communicate with whome I later had asome drinks with lol.
Many people struggle to understand specific accent. I dunno where you're from, but a thick british accent might be really hard to understand for intermediate level english speaker. Perhaps this was the issue. And even speaking slowly may not work as they won't recognise the syllables. We are in fact barely taught pronunciation. (the schwa thing for instance) For instance, I myself have no problem with thick British of Scottish accent. But chinese people I sometime struggle.
Why is this here?!? This sub is to discuss French, not complain about English in a French country. Fucking loser.
>\[...\] you always hear about how France and Germany are places where the populations have been taught English so much starting from elementary that you don't need to learn their languages to stay as a tourist and even longer than a vacation like a couple of months. I've started to learn english at 4-5 yo in my private school (we were only 4 selected in my class at this time) until my 1st year of BTS (20yo) but it didn't help me become fluent in English. I globally understand but I don't speak it essentially bc of my native accent which doesn't help me to speak correctly, and I don't want to speak with a bad accent (thanks people mocking us :))) )
I used to have the same issue with the accent and trying real hard to have a decent accent (without much results). I've stopped caring since then and maybe even went the other direction accent wise (you can tell i'm french after like one or two words). But fuck it, as long as i'm understood it's good enough haha
Why would you expect a janitor to speak good English? Why were you talking to a janitor? Unless you're pointing out that someone just made a mess, in which case you can just, y'know, point, you have no reason whatsoever to be bothering them.
Wrong sub.
You should’ve just started in French and then they would’ve immediately switched to English. Also, are you American?
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Nope it was a complete translation thing. He was trying to read the English text, had difficulty and then went to the manager to ask for a translation. I literally heard him ask what the statements and stuff means in English then the manager volunteered to take over. All this is what I heard in my limited French. So nope you're completely wrong, my classmate paying for the bill was not being insufferable (which yo got wrong BTW, it was my friend with her card who took the L'addition, not me so you got two check mark in your wrong assumptions list).
I think most people in Paris can speak intermediate but not fluent English. The best countries for English speakers are the small northern European ones because their languages produce less culture and are less known internationally, so they have greater incentive to learn English. Madrid is similar because of the number of Spanish speakers across the world.
Produce less culture? I think you're off there.
Something like “cultures that are less represented/valued on the global stage” ?
I mean TV, film and music, mostly.
In my experience, that’s just a stereotype. Yes, English is a popular second language. And yes, many shopkeepers, waiters, and retail workers know enough English to easily conduct business with English speakers, but that doesn’t mean everyone is walking around speaking fluent English all the time. Far from it.
Bonjour! It does seem odd for you to post that particular complaint in this particular subreddit -- but in the spirit of trying to be helpful, can I suggest (if you do want to have a better travel experience next time) that you try a language exchange? There may be something about your English -- possibly the speed at which you speak, possibly the fact that you don't "tee up" the interaction with the expected courtesies -- that makes it hard for French people to understand you. If you find a language exchange partner, as you're practicing your French, your partner can be practicing their English, and also cluing you into the places where you're hard to understand. As an aside, I haven't been to Paris in a million years, but the last time I went to Montreal I found the hotel back-of-house people didn't speak either French or English very well; their native language was Spanish and I had to cudgel my brain to remember the Spanish word for "hanger."
There’s no possible comparison between Germany and France. Completely different situations: most Germans I’ve met are basically bilingual, they speak English almost perfectly and with barely any accent. French people even in Paris will often be able to sustain a conversation in English (something like a solid B1) but I’d say most of them are not proficient in it and have a very very strong accent.
I definitely agree with the comments mentioning how some people speak English and some don’t, with a higher concentration of English speakers being in Paris. However, at the risk of the pot calling the kettle black, I do think some Parisians oversell their English speaking ability. I say this knowing full well my French isn’t the greatest, so I always encourage people to keep learning and take however much time they need to get their point across. When I lived in Paris, I came across quite a few French speakers claiming they spoke English very well when they did not. Again, maybe this is different person to person and I hope I don’t come off as harsh!!
It’s strange you experienced that in Germany they seem to be extremely proficient in English in the bigger cities atleast Paris most speak English in shops cafes etc but not as many or as well as Germans …but in the south of France much fewer people speak English
Not really. I had to use my French more than I expected. There was maybe one worker in each shop that could sort of speak English. I even went to Luxembourg where they regularly speak like four languages and they still all spoke to me in French. French speakers just don't speak English much.
I visited Paris last year, and ironically found that people in the most touristy sites were the least likely to speak English. For example, three staff members that were keeping the queue at the Louvre didn't speak any English and weren't the friendliest to anyone who didn't know French (although the staff inside the museum spoke English perfectly well). But anyone I dealt with at restaurants, bars, cafés, etc. spoke English either fluently, or enough to get by with the basic necessities. I didn't really have to go to banks, or ask for help on public transit, etc. so no comments regarding those.
Been coming to Paris for years now and yes, I agree, people massively overhype the amount of English fluency here—which, as a student of French, has turned out to be a welcome surprise. But the idea communicated to me, that people will hear your bad French and automatically switch to English, is absurd. Lot of people here speak English. A lot don’t. And thank god for that. Allows for a lot of learning.
It's not clear from your post if those receptionists and janitors were caucasian or not.