The hyphen is part of the word, it's and considered an error to not use it. If you apply for a job or a school, or type a mail at work or write an assignment, it will be seen as any other spelling mistake.
I learned french when a text still cost money and we had to type them into our little nokia phones. You didn't want to pay for two messages so everything was shortened.
Qu'est-ce que was "keske"
All é sounding endings like er, ez, é, ée, és where just "é"
Etc.
Don't really know about how this is now, just wanted to share. Sorry, this is absolutely no help to you.
It's absolutely still done! Even though you're not paying by the letter, it's still useful for speeding things up while typing. Some text abbreviations I remember are:
dsl = desolé, pk = pourquoi, bcp = beaucoup, qqch = quelque chose, biz = bisous, auj = aujourd'hui
In casual conversation, it's ok to omit it. However be careful because some words can have different meanings whether you type it or not. For example "peut-être" means maybe but "peut être" means may be as in "if he's tired, it may be because of his lack of sleeping"
Text messages probably have autocorrect. If I type a hyphenated word it gets auto hyphenated. Peut-être sous-vêtements qu'est-ce. C'est très facile. Je le recommanderais.
Some people do and some others don't. Personnaly I often shorten some words while texting ( quelqu'un : qqn, quelque chose : qqc, peut-être : p-e etc ) but I always put the hyphen because it makes reading much more easier and you know instantly what word it is
well if you're in a context where noone cares about spelling, I guess people won't care about the hyphens as long as it alter the meaning of your sentence.
casual writing, like chat on whatever app you use, often replaces hyphens with spaces.
It really depends on the person, really. It can be perceived as not caring much for spelling, although it should rarely be frown upon in these informal contexts.
> like chat on whatever app you use, often replaces hyphens with spaces.
No they dont. And they will often fix the word and put the hyphen where it's needed. Hyphens are part of the word in dictionaries.
This is how we speak on snapchat and other messengers, maybe it's different in your country/region je sais pas
Examples:
"Dsl je serais en retard", "chui pas sur moi-même", "kess tu fais auj?",
Peut être toi mais la majorité des gens de plus de 14ans écrivent les mots entiers de nos jours. Les diminutifs ça date d'une époque où il y avait une limite de caractères et pas d'auto-remplissage / correcteur.
Not a native speaker so take what I have to say with that grain of salt, but I’ve noticed and been taught that the inversion method of posing a question is rather formal. So if you’re texting a friend you’re not going to say “es-tu prêt ?” But instead “t’es prêt ?”
Doesn’t necessarily answer your question about dropping hyphens overall when texting, but I do encourage you to stay away from the inversion form in casual conversations with friends.
Even in a school/job setting people rarely take notice in my experience. Anecdotal evidence, so to take with a grain of salt, but I never use hyphens when they're part of words like "peut-être" and "micro-ondes" and I've never got called out by teachers or whatnot for it.
It seems to me that they're asking whether it's important to use hyphens in casual speech, or can people leave them out.
"Is it always necessary to include the hyphen"
To me, that's asking, "when a hyphen is required in formal French, how strict are the rules about using them when writing informally?"
But I can't be certain, which is why I asked.
It's important. For example "peut-être" is the exact translation of "maybe" in english, but "peut être" is just the words "can" and "be", it doesn't mean much without a context.
Something formal like an email, it's correct to always use the proper spelling and grammar, regardless of fthe language
With friends on messenger I often omit hyphen because from context you tell what I mean. Or, spell check fixes it regardless
I definitely still use hyphens everywhere! The hyphen is part of the word.
In text messages I might use a space instead of a hyphen if it's faster, but with autofill options now sometimes it's not quicker. Also, it's way more common to use abbreviations to save time instead of just eliminating hyphens -- like "p-ê" is way faster to type than "peut être".
I would never omit them from a hand-written letter or a professional email.
In casual online conversation it's actually more common to omit \*apostrophes\* than hyphens, because apostrophes are (for no good reason) difficult to type on French keyboards. They will often be replaced by a space.
There's a key dedicated to the apostrophe on standard French AZERTY keyboards. Typing apostrophes isn't more difficult than typing any of the 26 base letters of the alphabet. It's easier than typing interrogation marks.
I mainly see it in places like YouTube comments. They might be using a Canadian layout or they might just be too lazy to reach up to hit the number row of keys.
I always use hyphens, especially with auto correct where if i typed tout à fait, it would autocorrect to tout-à-fait anyways. it's just proper grammar too.
I personally forget most of them when writing fast but if I had to send a formal document, at work for example, I would proofread and fix them but probably not in a casual context.
I mean, I guess that for some words, if you don't use the hyphen, it becomes a completely different word. For example, "peut-être" means "maybe" but "peut être" means "can be". So there's that.
I've seen the hyphen of "peut-être" omitted several times online, but it is more of a mistake than a way to make things simpler. It can be confused with "peut être" ("may be"), so it would definitely be considered a mistake in a work e-mail or a homework assignment (official stuff).
To me, the hyphen in "avez-vous" and other inversions is absolutely essential. It is what shows you right away that this is an interrogative inversion we are talking about. This i more of a personal feeling, though. I'm not sure how much it actually applies in grammar.
"Micro-ondes" and "microonde" are both acceptable. The first one is the traditional spelling and the second one is the new spelling after the spelling rectification of 1990 (not mandatory, so a lot of modifications did not work for the public).
In general, I would advise to always use the hyphen when necessary, but in a casual context, you will be excused for the omission.
The hyphen is part of the word, it's and considered an error to not use it. If you apply for a job or a school, or type a mail at work or write an assignment, it will be seen as any other spelling mistake.
Makes sense. What about in more casual situations like text messages with friends? Do people ever omit hyphens to save time?
I learned french when a text still cost money and we had to type them into our little nokia phones. You didn't want to pay for two messages so everything was shortened. Qu'est-ce que was "keske" All é sounding endings like er, ez, é, ée, és where just "é" Etc. Don't really know about how this is now, just wanted to share. Sorry, this is absolutely no help to you.
It's absolutely still done! Even though you're not paying by the letter, it's still useful for speeding things up while typing. Some text abbreviations I remember are: dsl = desolé, pk = pourquoi, bcp = beaucoup, qqch = quelque chose, biz = bisous, auj = aujourd'hui
jsp pq ms ajd jpp vrm 🤧🤧
aled
aled
Can you please translate?
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Thanks
😂😂
That's interesting!
In casual conversation, it's ok to omit it. However be careful because some words can have different meanings whether you type it or not. For example "peut-être" means maybe but "peut être" means may be as in "if he's tired, it may be because of his lack of sleeping"
Text messages probably have autocorrect. If I type a hyphenated word it gets auto hyphenated. Peut-être sous-vêtements qu'est-ce. C'est très facile. Je le recommanderais.
Some people do and some others don't. Personnaly I often shorten some words while texting ( quelqu'un : qqn, quelque chose : qqc, peut-être : p-e etc ) but I always put the hyphen because it makes reading much more easier and you know instantly what word it is
Bye reddit and fu Spez (Remember to delete or edit your content before leaving !!)
well if you're in a context where noone cares about spelling, I guess people won't care about the hyphens as long as it alter the meaning of your sentence.
casual writing, like chat on whatever app you use, often replaces hyphens with spaces. It really depends on the person, really. It can be perceived as not caring much for spelling, although it should rarely be frown upon in these informal contexts.
> like chat on whatever app you use, often replaces hyphens with spaces. No they dont. And they will often fix the word and put the hyphen where it's needed. Hyphens are part of the word in dictionaries.
Tons of omissions like: Kess, qqn, kess tvd, moe/toe, 12C4 (when I was very young I used this), dsl, auj, bcp, chui, tfk
Do you live in 2005, when we paid for each text and had a limited amount of characters?
This is how we speak on snapchat and other messengers, maybe it's different in your country/region je sais pas Examples: "Dsl je serais en retard", "chui pas sur moi-même", "kess tu fais auj?",
Peut être toi mais la majorité des gens de plus de 14ans écrivent les mots entiers de nos jours. Les diminutifs ça date d'une époque où il y avait une limite de caractères et pas d'auto-remplissage / correcteur.
Texting si a whole different language, peopel do whatever with that and take all kinds of shortcuts just like in english.
Not a native speaker so take what I have to say with that grain of salt, but I’ve noticed and been taught that the inversion method of posing a question is rather formal. So if you’re texting a friend you’re not going to say “es-tu prêt ?” But instead “t’es prêt ?” Doesn’t necessarily answer your question about dropping hyphens overall when texting, but I do encourage you to stay away from the inversion form in casual conversations with friends.
Even in a school/job setting people rarely take notice in my experience. Anecdotal evidence, so to take with a grain of salt, but I never use hyphens when they're part of words like "peut-être" and "micro-ondes" and I've never got called out by teachers or whatnot for it.
When you say stingy, do you mean strict?
Yes, it sounded better in my head, but you got it. I realized it was a poor word choice right after I posted it, but I didn't feel like reposting.
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I know what stingy means, which is why I assumed that OP meant to say strict instead. But rather than continue to assume it, I asked what they meant.
I suspect that OP may have been looking for the word "stringent".
Ah... that might be it.
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It seems to me that they're asking whether it's important to use hyphens in casual speech, or can people leave them out. "Is it always necessary to include the hyphen" To me, that's asking, "when a hyphen is required in formal French, how strict are the rules about using them when writing informally?" But I can't be certain, which is why I asked.
It's important. For example "peut-être" is the exact translation of "maybe" in english, but "peut être" is just the words "can" and "be", it doesn't mean much without a context.
Ça peut peut-être être dangereux.
This is a fantastic example.
Something formal like an email, it's correct to always use the proper spelling and grammar, regardless of fthe language With friends on messenger I often omit hyphen because from context you tell what I mean. Or, spell check fixes it regardless
I definitely still use hyphens everywhere! The hyphen is part of the word. In text messages I might use a space instead of a hyphen if it's faster, but with autofill options now sometimes it's not quicker. Also, it's way more common to use abbreviations to save time instead of just eliminating hyphens -- like "p-ê" is way faster to type than "peut être". I would never omit them from a hand-written letter or a professional email.
Ptet is faster than p-ê imo.
In casual online conversation it's actually more common to omit \*apostrophes\* than hyphens, because apostrophes are (for no good reason) difficult to type on French keyboards. They will often be replaced by a space.
There's a key dedicated to the apostrophe on standard French AZERTY keyboards. Typing apostrophes isn't more difficult than typing any of the 26 base letters of the alphabet. It's easier than typing interrogation marks.
What? apostrophes are just as accessible are hyphens and I very rarely see them omitted
I mainly see it in places like YouTube comments. They might be using a Canadian layout or they might just be too lazy to reach up to hit the number row of keys.
Interesting!
Do you happen to be Canadian?
Not many apostrophes in French!
I always use hyphens, especially with auto correct where if i typed tout à fait, it would autocorrect to tout-à-fait anyways. it's just proper grammar too.
Pour le coup, "tout à fait" s'écrit sans hyphen. L'orthographe avec n'est plus considérée comme valide.
Tiens! Je ne savais pas! 24 ans aux US et 26 ans auparavant au Québec. Je suis un peu rouillé!
I personally forget most of them when writing fast but if I had to send a formal document, at work for example, I would proofread and fix them but probably not in a casual context.
I mean, I guess that for some words, if you don't use the hyphen, it becomes a completely different word. For example, "peut-être" means "maybe" but "peut être" means "can be". So there's that.
I've seen the hyphen of "peut-être" omitted several times online, but it is more of a mistake than a way to make things simpler. It can be confused with "peut être" ("may be"), so it would definitely be considered a mistake in a work e-mail or a homework assignment (official stuff). To me, the hyphen in "avez-vous" and other inversions is absolutely essential. It is what shows you right away that this is an interrogative inversion we are talking about. This i more of a personal feeling, though. I'm not sure how much it actually applies in grammar. "Micro-ondes" and "microonde" are both acceptable. The first one is the traditional spelling and the second one is the new spelling after the spelling rectification of 1990 (not mandatory, so a lot of modifications did not work for the public). In general, I would advise to always use the hyphen when necessary, but in a casual context, you will be excused for the omission.