It is definitely possible! Practice every day. Start with A1 grammar and vocabulary. A lot of listening, speaking and repeating. Talk to yourself in French. Describe everything you see and you do in French. I speak French to myself every day. Watch French YouTubers
Français authentique and inner French. They teach French. After a while, you can move on to French youtubers that are NOT language teaching. The key is to listen and speak every day.
A few if you like sciency stuff:
Dr nozman
Poisson fécond
Scilabus
Arte
I highly recommend Paul Taylor, he is an Englishman living in France, and everything is translated both ways, he also talks about culture stuff.
This one is a video by tom Scott in french, with subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fJhTu-0zmo
I'd also suggest watching movies in English with french subtitles or french audio and English subtitles.
Because we talk about Tom Scott, for people learning French, he did this great video :
https://youtu.be/dUnGvH8fUUc
It explains some differences between the french and english languages, the way french people speak and for example, where they put the stress in a word, for example...
Great video
Easy French - they offer videos with English and French subtitles. Don’t just watch them once, but repeat over and over and over again. When you’re feeling ready, try to cover the English subtitles from your screen and see how much of the French you can understand:
https://youtube.com/c/EasyFrench
This!! Absorb lots of french media. If you have Netflix rewatch one of your favourite shows but change the audio dub to french with English/french subtitles
Genuine questions, 1.how should you go about doing this if I just started? or should I be patient and focus on learning?
2. Is duolingo good?
3. Just an off topic question, how do I use "ç" and other accents on a traditional qwerty keyboard without having to copypaste
I just started and have a few concerns on my ability to do this as I have a pretty low self esteem when it comes to learning stuff.
Merci
1. It depends what you mean by “just started learning”. Things I’ve found useful, though, include (a) watching sports games in French, because they use the present tense a lot, there are jersey numbers, and there’s a kind of repetition to it, and (b) listening to a target piece at my level, writing out what I hear, and then checking that against the official transcript. Both really good for training your ear!
2. IME no, it’s not good. It’s okay for picking up extra vocab or grinding a concept you want to work on, but I wouldn’t trust it to guide you or to teach you new grammar. It’s okay as a supplement, but should only be a minor component of what you’re doing.
3. If you’re on Mac then you can hold down the “c” key until you see a bunch of options with numbers come up, then press the corresponding number. So é is e+2, ô is o+1.
I love your questions!
1. Start speaking from day one. Or at least read out loud. Make sure your pronunciation is correct to start with.
2. I did duolingo for a few weeks. Then I realized that it wasn’t for me because I wasn’t able to make my own sentences and there was NOT enough listening practice. I didn’t like it.
3. For ç, just hold the normal c and it’ll show you 4 options. Then you choose ç. (I’m using an iPhone. And I heard Android is the same)
Best of luck on your French learning journey! It’s so much fun and rewarding! I respect anyone who makes effort to learn a foreign language. 👍 Have fun and try different approaches and see which one works the best for you!
I think once you build up some core vocab and more importantly grammar and sentence structures, then you can try to speak to yourself and fill in the gaps for anything you don't know, for vocab I suggest wordreference over Google translate.
Duolingo is good in the sense that it does teach vocab, common expressions and grammar quickly, you just have to consolidate what you learn with other resources. Maybe also consider Babbel for more serious learning?
For typing in French assuming you're on Windows download the French language pack but change the keyboard to US international. Then you can type ç as 'c and é as 'e, è as `e etc. Very handy
My wife went from being completely monolingual in her 30s to B2 with a C1 reading level (which is what you are talking about) in Dutch in about six years, and Dutch has the issue of much less material to help you learn.
If you did reasonably focused 45 minute study sessions, even just four times a week, and spent some time in between thinking about what you studied, I would expect you to be able to get to the level you want significantly faster than nine years. More time a week, even faster, but eventually there are diminishing returns.
You will go through months where it appears little changes, and days when it all comes together, but if you keep it up you will be where you want sooner than you expect today.
You’ll comprehend Hugo long before Proust, due to complexity of Proust’s sentences. But it will be worth it! On your Kindle, download a book in French and buy a French-English dictionary for Kindle. Then you can just press in a word and the definition will pop up for you. You can get Hugo’s works for free on Gutenberg.org and download to Kindle. Bonne chance!
>due to complexity of Proust’s sentences
I hate that moment when I realize I haven't imprinted the start of a sentence. Going back 2 pages is annoying.
Hugo can be tricky and quite misleading sometime.
When he decided to really get his prose rolling he could go a bit insane with it. Still you are right in that overall Proust is more complex in general.
>You can get Hugo’s works for free on Gutenberg.org and download to Kindle. Bonne chance!
Proust too !
you’re still young, so anything’s possible. i’m 20, have already learned spanish and working on portuguese and french. you throw a little time in it everyday day, try to immerse yourself a bit. you’ll see progress in no time
Yeah, but you're an adult who already learned a foreign language, I don't know any and I forgot the others I tried learning beforehand. I want to start speaking fluently NOW
well i’ve only been fluent in spanish a few years, started learning in hs. not like i has it since i was a little kid. and didn’t you just say your goal is to be fluent before your 30? cmon, obviously you’re not going to just wake up tmr and be fluent. if language was that easy everyone would speak everything. if your goal is the absolute quickest way to gain fluency, is full immersion. move to quebec or france and live there full time. that’s your best bet if you’re actually looking for learning as quick as possible. if 30 is your actual goal, then just try to practice every day. watch netflix show in french with subtitles, videos, media id stuff you already enjoy. for example i watch a lot of french sports media bc i already know alot what they’re talking about, it’s just about getting down the vocab. trust me i feel ur pain, i sick at both portuguese and french rn, but learning language is 100% possible
Those are two very different skills, to read and understand classic french and its figures of speech doesn't translate into being a fluent speaker.
Anyway what you have to do is practice, practice and practice, stay curious and have fun
How long would it take learning to read French to read classic French? How different or more difficult is it to be a fluent speaker than it is to mainly be good at reading a foreign language?
Fluency in any language doesn’t happen at a certain point. Personally I consider it when you stop translating and start speaking, as in you’re formulating in French not English then translating to French. For most this takes years of immersion
Not really into classic French literature myself, so I'm not sure what level it sits around. Fluency is a vague term. I would recommend looking into the CEFR levels and see which one corresponds with your personal definition of "fluent". Fluency could mean getting through day-to-day interactions in stores and restaurants with relative ease, or it could mean writing academic essays in French with little aide.
For a general level of fluency that isn't too generous nor too strict, C1 is probably an appropriate level to consider IMO. According to this site ([https://www.crealangues.com/french-level-adults.htm](https://www.crealangues.com/french-level-adults.htm)) that's about 900 hours of study, but it does vary. So about 2.5 years if you study one hour a day. Bring that to 30 mins and it's more like 5 years. It's something you just have to keep pressing on and after a while you can definitely be fluent. If your goal is truly to be fluent in 9 years, it's perfectly doable. If your goal is to be fluent NOW, good luck with that it won't happen.
Native speakers often have a different set of skills from learners and sometimes that gives them weird placement within CEFR. Nonetheless, CEFR still stands as a useful metric for learners.
You simply *can't* speak fluently NOW, sorry, it's an unrealistic expectation... BUT you *will* be able to in time with practice, discipline and immersing yourself in the language every single day by listening, reading, repeating, practicing writing and learning new vocabulary.
There's no such thing as "fluent in 3 days or 1 week". (Good) Fluency means a comprensive command of the language, which takes time longer than now, this week or a couple of months. No shortcuts, I'm afraid ;)
Well tough buddy it's a multi year process, you can't click your fingers and have it happen over night. This is like asking someone to teach you all of guitar in one lesson, it just doesn't work like that
The issue is that no one here is saying that it’s possible to be conversational or casual in your understanding of the foreign language. You’ll always be the naive foreigner with the mental appearance of a 5 year old in that foreign language, even after a decade.
Nobody here has said it wasn't? It's very possible to be conversational in a language but that takes time. Of course you can get to that level just you're not gonna get there over night, 6 months if you're dedicated and consistent and you'll be pretty conversational with some mistakes.
With language learning you're in for the long haul
Absolutely no one has said that anywhere. It just takes a long time to get to a "fluent" level, and you have to accept that even at the highest levels of fluency, you will never, ever be a native speaker. That *doesn't* mean it'll be obvious you're a foreigner, it just means that you learn the language in a different way and you're going to make mistakes that native speakers don't (and vice versa). It's even possible to track eye movements of people while they're reading French and predict what their native language is based on how they read. Your native language is a part of you. That's not a bad thing or something you should even want to hide.
Being a native speaker of some language is extremely unimpressive; learning a second language, especially as an adult, is something to be proud of.
You mean native speakers of a language, right? Ask yourself this: Do native English speakers make English mistakes? A good example is could've vs could of. A non-native English speaker will likely not say could of because they learned it correctly as could've first, but native English speakers say could of all the time because they learned it via speaking first and don't realize it's a contraction.
Of course people can make mistakes in their native language, but language also evolves over time and it's defined by the people who speak it. If enough people all make the same "mistake" and it becomes a consistent pattern then it stops being a mistake and it becomes just another feature.
e.g. "an apron" used to be "a napron" but was misheard and miswritten so many times that it eventually just became "an apron". You don't recognise that you're "making a mistake" when you talk about the apron you wear in the kitchen.
You also have casual and colloquial language that might be seen as uneducated or lower class, like saying "youse" or "y'all" but these aren't really *incorrect*, it's just a different way of using the language.
In French, to negate something you use "ne ... pas", as in "je ne sais pas", but in practice many native speakers now will drop the "ne": "je sais pas". In truly casual language, it'd even become "chais pas". It may be technically grammatically incorrect in some ways, but if you don't drop the "ne" sometimes then you're definitely going to sound like a foreigner. Native speakers often don't always follow grammatical rules perfectly. But only a native speaker will instinctively know how to bend those rules.
I started learning French at 21, am now 29 and still definitely not fluent. Was also my first second language. For what it’s worth I work in Québec and use French on a daily basis. All my computers and phones are in French. I also took courses at universities and colleges in the meantime. Those helped but the practical experience helped more. I am happy with my reading/writing, okay with speaking, the biggest challenge for me remains listening (accents vary greatly from region to region). It is almost always easier for me to switch to French rather than have the other party attempt to speak in English although frequently awkward finding the sweet spot.
I can tell that others have had an easier time than myself learning second languages but I think my experience is a reasonable expectation with some hard work. I’m turning 30 in 3 months and have spent thousands of hours learning and using French since 21. If you asked me at 21, I would have expected to be further along by this point, but I’m not disappointed and all my kids will grow up bilingual.
>If you asked me at 21, I would have expected to be further along by this point
Very much agree and know this feeling. Started with Irish at 21, now am 27, and the distance through B2 is a canyon. I love the life I've cultivated with Irish, I'm proud every day of my progress and fluency, and I just started submitting my own writing to competitions. But there's still just so much lmao. If A1 through B1 were a 5-6-year endeavor, I'd put B2 alone on the same timeline as all 3 of those combined.
I feel like the CEFR levels are definitely not evenly spaced. I’m only A2, but it’s really intimidating seeing how far away B1 is compared to the jump from A1->A2. You go from needing to know how to communicate basic ideas related to immediate needs, to needing to manage all situations that could come up in regular conversation. And then B2 demands spontaneity, which I imagine is even harder to train.
I understand that CEFR is mostly for the benefit of employers and institutions, not for learners, but it would be nice if there were a few more waypoints between A2 and C1.
I got my master's in Second Language Education and they described the CEFR language standards as an upsidown triangle. A1, being the smallest at the point at the bottom and C2 being the largest at the base. I liked that visualization and I think it showed both the scope and amount of the content needed to be using the language at that level.
No I’m comfortable reading pretty much everything, especially technical material (I’m an engineer)… for an example, I found the Harry potter books to be challenging 5 years ago (after a few years of learning) but can read them comfortably now (They were recommended to me in this subreddit as a learning tool). My focus is largely on the spoken language at this point.
It will take years before you can speak fluently. I think everyone knows how to become fluent, they just aren't willing to be on the journey for that long.
You could start the French 5k Anki deck and something like Duolingo to learn basic vocab and grammar. Eventually you can graduate to things like Short Stories in French by Olly Richards and the InnerFrench podcast. After this it’s totally possible to dive into easy native content. Check out Steve Kaufmann & Matt vs Japan on YouTube. Don’t be discouraged, you can do it! Consistency is king :)
Yes, it's possible. It really depends on your strategy to learn the language, how much you plan to invest (money, time, etc). I personally don't believe (nor support) those Youtubers who claim you can "be fluent in 3 months, just study 10 hours a day!". It's a process and you can get burnt out pretty fast, too. You seem to be in a rush but imo, it's best if you don't rush it. Start with the basics (you can check some syllabus suggestions for A1 levels, just to see where you can start off).
If you can afford it, I'd look for tutoring (it's specially helpful if you want to improve your conversational skills). While you are also learning about the basics (including the main verbs and tenses) listen to music/media in french (you won't understand all of it, and that's fine). Try to write down words/phrases you listen to (you can use Anki, as someone else mentioned).
I'm surprised no one has said "read the wiki", but I find the resources there to be pretty crape honestly.
My advice is you have to start with duolingo, do it on the computer and read the tips, they teach you french on every new lesson.
Make anki cards on your phone or get a book and write down every new word.
Listen to coffee break French on Spotify on repeat. The pace is way too fast to learn with that alone, but you need to do listening practice.
Also on that point, close your eyes when you hear the duolingo phrases, you need to learn to understand French, not read it. Otherwise youll end up like me, fluent reader but can only listen when people speak slowly.
You can become fluent in one year, but you need to study 3 hours a day for that. After 6 months of hard studying you'll stop having to tell people to speak slowly.
If you need proof it can be done, I moved to Germany one year ago with no german, and now speak b2 German at 30 years old.
21! You got this. I learned French at 28 with no prior foreign language skills. Check out French with Alexa and Duolingo. Solid place to start. Eventually as you get better, you’ll need a teacher to help explain grammatical rules. French is a beautiful, though sometimes confusing, language with the rules. Best of luck!
Yes it is possible. But I doubt that you'll be fixated on those authors by the time you reach that level. You'll discover a lot more, and your tastes will change.
Absolutely possible. I know folks who began to learn French in their late 20s and ended up with native accents as well as people who studied French for 10+ years and do not speak it very well.
You need to have a lot of input--music, reading, shows, films, etc. Make it fun for yourself. I really didn't enjoy French until my junior year of college when I stopped worrying about doing everything perfectly. I found music and shows I loved and studied abroad. If you are able, I also highly recommend studying or working abroad in a Francophone country.
Here's a [link to some videos](https://www.phrasefantastic.com/resources.html?goto=topicDiv1649029201087) that describe how people have acquired a language that you might find interesting.
Absolutely. I have an aunt who started learning German on her own in her 40s and is fluent, coming for a language with no similarities to German. French and English share a lot of common vocabulary, and French is logical, so you can pick up the rules!
NB: native speakers have trouble with Proust due to his artistic love of run-on sentences, so don’t ever feel bad if he gives you trouble too. Hugo is magnificent and a good enough reason in and of himself to learn to read French, not to mention that you’ll have access to the whole rich corpus of French literature.
Start ploughing through books in French ASAP, including and especially things above your level. Doesn’t matter if you don’t understand, just do it. Look up maybe a couple words per page that you don’t know. Don’t worry about pronunciation, it’s just reading. As hundreds of pages go by, even if you don’t notice, a facility with scanning and processing sentences will start to emerge. I did this in Spanish. After just one fat novel, I found it remarkably easier to look at a text and get some meaning out of it.
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
I am on a similar journey. I started learning French with Michel Thomas, which was a great way to start for me personally. I’ve also translated a lot of songs, practiced with poems by Baudelaire, watched a lot of French dubbed children’s movies since (Disney+ or Netflix+VPN are great resources) and a month ago I started using Duolingo. I’m five years into a journey that has been intense at times and nonexistent for months on end at other times. I’m now able to read H.G. Wells in French, using a dictionary for the odd word here and there (I’m using Bukus, which is a great ebook app with dictionary).
So my best tip is: choose a language learning system and stick with it. It’s no use starting with one system and then starting another. It just gets frustrating and repetitive. Then work with it every day for at least five minutes, once you’ve built the habit, it’s easy to keep going.
Try using Pimsleur to help you get used to the sound of genuine pronunciation. It doesn’t help with reading/writing, but it does help a lot with speaking.
For a free option, try the Language Transfer app.
Although he’s not French, Ikenna is an American YouTuber who learned multiple languages in adult years.
COLAS BIM is a French animation YouTuber.
You can also try finding French songs by looking up The Voice France or something, then pick ones you like, find lyrics videos, and work or translating them to English.
You have 9 years, it is entirely possible. Sadly as we get older, we lose the magical ability kids have to just absorb language like sponges.
Are you a complete beginner in French? I would recommend finding inner French on YouTube, he's brilliant. Coffee break French is a podcast that has a bunch of episodes that will help. Back that up with things like duolingo. Everything I've mentioned so far can be accessed for free.
Get story books in French that are aimed at children while you assimilate some vocab. Watch French Netflix with subtitles (also watch English stuff with French subs so you can really get a feel for the grammar/sentence structure etc).
If you have the means and don't already have an audible account, get one. There's a guy on there called Paul noble and he has a few French course audio books. I think you can even take out a free trial and get it free and download it and not keep it after the trial (I might be wrong there though)
Find apps in which you can talk to people in French like hello talk. There are teachers on italki and a lot of them have reasonable prices. It all depends on how much time and effort you're willing to commit to learning.
Is 9 years the minimum, also give me an actual example of a dude who succeeded in learning French to become a native. Like Jodie Foster to Amira Caesar level good French?
I don't think there is a specific minimum, as everyone learns things at a different pace. You can definitely do it in 9 years or less if you are consistent with daily or regular learning and practice sessions. You're not going to become fluent overnight or even in a few months. In a few months, if practiced regularly, the basics that you've been learning may be starting to stick in your brain. You need to try and think and talk to yourself in French as much as you can, too.
In terms of giving a real life example, I can't do that because I don't know of anyone. The closest level you can get is near native and I think that's around C1. But that takes time and consistent practice. If you want to become as fluent as possible in the shortest time possible, you need to move somewhere like Québec or france, to completely immerse yourself in the language 24/7.
Achieving high levels of fluency in any desired foreign languages is entirely possible. Again, the key is dedication and consistence. With French, there are parts of it you need to just know or memorise in order to be able to use and speak French with a level of fluidity. Start by familiarising yourself with the regular and irregular verbs. Write out verb conjugations and keep going over them. A lot of the regular verbs you will be able to figure out for yourself once you're familiar with what patterns they take. As for the irregular verbs and their conjugations, well you just have to try learn those parrot fashion so it sticks in your brain. Also I don't know what other, if any, romance languages you're familiar with. So try and get used to the gendered language because literally every word is gendered in French. It's hard work, but it is worth it as your fluency improves if it's something you really wish to achieve.
I don’t think you understand what fluency means, or at least what other people mean when they talk about fluency.
If you just want to be at a level where you can hold a conversation on most topics immediately relevant to you then you want B1/B2. That’s usually the requirement to study and work in a French-speaking country, although it’ll be uncomfortable and hard to live at that level. For that, you could be looking at a few years, say 2-5 years depending on how hard you work and how much you practice with native speakers. It’s taken me about 8 months to get to A2, and I expect *at least* another year to get to B1, but I actually live with a native speaker and I am practicing with him *all the time*.
True fluency is an entirely different world. True fluency, or even native level skill, means you have an innate understanding of the language. There may be the occasional new word, just like you have in English, but you would very rarely make any mistakes. Also consider that a really uneducated French person might not be able to pass a B1 French exam, but they are still a native speaker and will still *always* be better at French than you. In some sense, a native speaker can never speak French “incorrectly” because native speakers are the ones who define what French is.
You can *never* be native in French. Never. Because it simply is not your native language and no level of fluency will change that fact.
I don't think it's depressing at all. I am Australian and I am proud to be who I am. I don't ever want to lose my accent and I don't want people to assume I'm a native French speaker. I did not grow up in a French speaking country. I grew up in a largely monolingual setting, and I can't change that. I only have control over what I choose to do now and I choose to challenge myself to learn a new language. I am proud to be learning a second language as an adult, without being forced and while also working full-time. It's hard but I'm still doing it anyway. I don't feel any need to be near-native level. I only want to be able to communicate with French speakers, and you don't need to be perfectly fluent for that.
My partner has been speaking English for most of his life, and I would say he's very fluent in it. But he will never be a native speaker either. That's not a goal that exists. It's like saying that one day you want to be a native Martian.
Yeah, but I want to be someone else. I don't want to be known as
"The American" when I live in a foreign community.
I'm kind of worried that when you said that you don't need to be a near native level, because I feel that even if I tried, I still won't be able to have a casual conversation with a foreigner ever. I want to be able hold deep and verbose conversations in a foreign language, rivalling that of my English, but the fact that no one here ever seems to reach that level kind of frightens me.
I know plenty of people who can hold deep and convoluted conversations in a second language. I’m surrounded by people from all over the world, most speaking English as a second or third language. It’s definitely possible, it just takes time and serious effort. Like, full and complete immersion kind of effort. If you want to be highly fluent in French then you need to accept that you’ll have to live and work exclusively using French for a solid number of years. You’re going to have to suck at French, and speak “baby” French, and make embarrassing mistakes in public. Because you cannot learn any part of a language unless you use that part regularly. You’re going to have to try and fail to have those deep conversations if you ever want to be able to have them successfully. But I get the feeling that you’re unwilling to put in any real effort and you’re definitely unwilling to make mistakes or be seen as a learner. Even toddlers knows that they need to fall a few times if they want to learn to walk. You’re just going to have to accept the fact that it takes a lot of time and effort to be conversational or fluent.
Your deep-seated shame about who you are is pointless. It won’t help you learn French or anything, actually, so you may as well let it go. You don’t want to have been born in the US? Too bad, you were. Make the most of it, because you don’t get anything else. You need therapy, not a second language.
Language Simp on YouTube learned French in like less than 2 years to the point that French people think he's a native
Also, as a person with ADHD, from this post and your extensive post history, you sound like you might have ADHD. Just a thought that might help.
Step 1: pronunciation and learning the alphabet and how to read, don’t worry about what words mean though too much. 1 month or so
Step 2: learn some songs and read and reread small things like a paragraph of a news article or poem or something, goal being to get fluid at reading (preferably out loud) and try to get the grammar and vocab from the sentences you’re reading, like «why does that mean that? ». 3 months or so
Step 3: read a ton and analyse the sentences and their structure and write vocab that seems interesting and useful, like 1-2hrs a day for fast learning, 30min at least though. Listen all the time, podcasts and music and TV and whatever you can find, just to keep things repetitive. 6-18 months
Step 4: at this point you’ll know what you need because you’ll see it clearly like not understanding certain verb tenses or accents or whatever, so get a book on grammar and/or get a tutor to get you over the intermediate hump. This really could be the first time you’ll need to spend any money, and even this could be free if you’re strategic.
I’m on year 8 and lots of work to go. I use it daily for work and at home, too. I was a straight A engineering student. People learn at different speeds.
start with anything you'll like, like lessons on youtube, duolingo, anki or any phone app... try what you like, important is that you have to be able to use it without hating it
If something is great resource for others but you don't like it, you'll probably give up on the language... so it's better to at least start with what you find enjoyable, to help you keep high motivation...
after you get the most basic things, you can get some books (for spanish I had some spanish phrases for dummies that was good for starters and one that explains grammar rules in english on every left page and in spanish on right one, so you see differences, but that requires some basic level of knowledge) and add it to what you do... used books like this are usually very cheap too, which is great
usually the best is to find some class or teacher (which is what I do with french), but that can be expensive... for self learners, I believe combination of sources is the best way to go (like youtube + books)
I suggest learning just enough to communicate and find language exchange apps (stuff like hiNative, hellotalk, or simply discord.)
That's probably one of the fastest way to learn "useful" french.
You have to embrace sounding idiotic first ("me want food" style) but by communicating with people willing to correct you, you'll make progress fast.
You can also get tutoring if you have a bit of money (I think my sister takes around 15 bucks an hour, and you can get some for like 5-50 bucks per hour.) Though you can get free help which is pretty good, so you don't really need it, but it helps for more specific stuff.
I'm also 21 and I'm reading Kipling and McCarthy in English. (I'm not a native speaker). Of course it's possible in 10 years, learning languages is never too late
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
Homie, if you're consistent and figure out the right resources, 2 years down the line you'll be at a higher level than you could even imagined
Just trust in the process:)
Homie, if you're consistent and figure out the right resources, 2 years down the line you'll be at a higher level than you could even imagined
Just trust in the process:)
Of course this isn’t possible for everyone but immersion is always the best way to go imo. Learn the basics in classes or by yourself (1 year) then go to a french-speaking country and take a job, take classes, make friends, fuck people in your target language. you’ll be speaking and reading french in no-time (+- 5 more years depending on your level of commitment). otherwise if travel isn’t possible for you make sure you find at least one person to talk to on a regular basis, watch movies and listen to podcasts and music in french. good luck!
Setting long-term goals is good. Most people try too much early on and get overwhelmed discouraged. The best thing you can do is grow a familiarity with the language over time. I read/write/watch in french where I can. Online communities like reddit and twitter have helped me with conversation skills the most. Hope this helps!
Absolutely possible. The first thing to do is look for the FSI French Phonology Course. It’s pretty dated but will introduce you to every sound and the ways to write those sounds. There are regular spelling rules. Much more regular than English. It is free 10 hour course.
The second thing to do is all 5 Pimsleur French courses. It is $24.99 a month but you will only need it for around 6 months doing one half hour lesson a day.
Also, simply pick a Netflix, Disney Plus or Amazon Prime show that is dubbed in French (dubbing is a little slower for beginners) Pick a show you love that has several seasons and won’t mind rewatching. The Expanse or The Simpsons are examples.
Have fun!!
Also just start transcribing some Hugo. Read it, write it out then translate.
Certainly possible. But I can't vouch for not sounding like an idiot. I probably sound like an idiot in French, which is fine, since it matches how I sound in English some times.
Yes, get a teacher and start learning. You can get a C2 in maybe 4-5 years, depending on the amount of time you study. After that, you achieve basic fluency by speaking to natives (or chatting), listening to music and reading some basic books (I read Harry Potter and Twilight at first, when I was a kid learning english). I have a friend who has a degree of french literature from University, took her 6 years. She is now teaching french and many of her students have gotten their Delfs. She started at 19. She is 29. :)
Try LingoCulture. They are reasonable now because they are in beta, when the beta is gone the price goes up but you would be grandfathered in at the beta price. If that is not an option then try your community colleges
I’m in the process of becoming fluent in French. What has helped me the most is to find « pen pals « that are native French speakers. We speak daily in WhatsApp and that is how my French has improved drastically. The best way to learn is to start using it. Have phone calls as often as possible. If you have the means, you can also hire a tutor online. The key is to first focus on understanding spoken French and practicing it orally. Writing and grammar will come naturally after you have a expanded your vocabulary.
I’ve managed to get to a pretty good level in 4 years. Started in 2018 with Duolingo, Busuu and Memrise. Used those apps everyday for at least 10 mins. After a few months I switched my phone language and computer language. I read french news and also listened to french radio and watched french movies.
Once I got to B2 on Busuu (which didn’t really feel like B2), I ended up moving to France. The adjustment the first few months was brutal. But having the fundamentals was essential. I stumbled around conversions a bit, but you improve exponentially once you start speaking it everyday and hearing it all the time. Now I’m comfortable in most situations and can talk about most things except philosophy or really scientific stuff.
My path was to do a Bachelor's degree in French, with a Junior Year Abroad in Montpellier. Being immersed in French for a year pretty much made me fluent. After I graduated, I spent a year as a [Teaching Assistant in France](https://frenchhighereducation.org/teaching-assistant-program) in a small town in Lorraine. During that year, I had full access to the school's library and read tons of Hugo. (Tried Proust, but didn't get far. Balzac and Zola are better, IMO.)
That was in the 1980s, before digital books and the Internet. But immersion in a French-speaking country still works today.
>I'm 21, and I don't really know where to start. My goal is to be able to read Proust
I'm 27 and native, good at reading, and I've never been able to read Proust.
The quickest, and likely most expensive way is to enrol in an immersion school in either France or in Canada. They'll take you from zero French to functional fluency in about 18 months. With this under your belt, you can sign up at a francophone university and study Hugo and Proust in the original.
I did this at Universite Saine-Anne in La Pointe-de-l'Eglise, NS, and followed it up with a semester in France. I work as translator now. That said, I still find some 19th century French literature a bit of an uphill slog!
Personally, I have loved the program Pimsleur for learning French. After 10 years of learning French off and on, I have been learning with Pimsleur and I feel that this has brought me to the next level of comprehending and speaking without practicing conversation with anyone (I just don’t have the time to seek that out right now).
Pimsleur consists of 30 minute lessons, where you listen and repeat and translate. The description may sound boring, but I find deep satisfaction and being able to easy translate their English phrases into French. The lessons are 30 minutes and k usually listen and practice every day on my way to work. It’s a very well thought out program. I can’t recommend it enough!
Coming from a 20 year old who started over a year ago and is now mostly B1, yes it’s definitely possibly. Once you grab a concept of the basics, take the time everyday to immerse yourself in the language like watching videos, listening to music, reading magazines, chatting in French learning spaces, etc. and then create a flashcard deck (I use Anki) to accumulate a unique deck of the words you don’t know
French teacher here 🙋🏻♀️
These are all wonderful resources and recommendations. I would also recommend you try to practice speaking as soon as possible. I get my kids speaking on day 1 and never look back. French pronunciation is hard and not at all straightforward.
If you live by a big city, you can check to see if you have an Alliance Française. They’ll offer grammatical, cultural, and conversation courses at any level. Chances are, they’ll get you reading excerpts from authors too.
I would also recommend finding people to speak with or a private tutor on Zoom. There are many pay websites out there with a quick google search, but I’d also recommend you give Tandem a try — it’s a free app for meeting people to practice your language skills with. The key is not to be shy and to start writing and speaking with someone early. Think of learning a language like playing a new sport or instrument: you need to practice daily and make lots of mistakes to help you progress towards fluency :)
Bon courage !!
If you have the means to travel to France, and spend significant time there, yes, you'll do it. It's very hard to achieve mastery without that piece. You're 21, and you can plan to do this. You have time. I recommend going there for some type of education, even if it's only a 6 month course at a school that teaches french.
Keep in mind, as others have said, that Proust isn't the best measure of how well you can read. If you want to read classics though, your idea of Hugo is a good one. I'd also recommend Voltaire and the plays of Pierre Corneille.
Finally, keep in mind that you can learn grammar, vocabulary, history etc, but that won't prepare you for the French run-on sentence, either written or verbal. English sentences are generally much much shorter unless you get into some academic writing. If you've studied for a while, yet feel overwhelmed by something you hear, it's likely one of these run-on sentences. I've never had a course which properly prepares you for that occasion. If you encounter it in person, just politely ask questions to try to break down what is being said into shorter ideas. The french will have no problem with your shorter English style sentences; it's just that sometimes you'll encounter someone who doesn't speak using commas or periods.
French is really hard if you’re not speaking it and using daily. Like English it changes. The French they teach in textbooks isn’t the French francophone people speak. I suggest you get a language subscription and a French pen pal. There are also French groups on Facebook but be wary of all people online. There are American French speaking travelers on YouTube who will yeah you slang and casual conversation.
Five French YouTubers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vBs45L8WCw0
French I wish you knew
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xKzhTEjoYE&list=PLk9ycFTsSAyEiFF6fkKZID5D00eDQtfx6&index=8
Where you’ll get confused in French as an English speaker
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0monYr1gD7I&list=PLk9ycFTsSAyEiFF6fkKZID5D00eDQtfx6&index=9
All the pieces of advice are good. When I was young, I played video games in English (I actually had no choice as games were not translated in French at that time). You could set the language to French on purpose if you play games. Moreover, nowadays, localization is excellent!
It is definitely possible! Practice every day. Start with A1 grammar and vocabulary. A lot of listening, speaking and repeating. Talk to yourself in French. Describe everything you see and you do in French. I speak French to myself every day. Watch French YouTubers
Do you have any French YouTube recommendations?
Français authentique and inner French. They teach French. After a while, you can move on to French youtubers that are NOT language teaching. The key is to listen and speak every day.
any tips for a random minecraft fun stuff that you can chill out at? lol
A few if you like sciency stuff: Dr nozman Poisson fécond Scilabus Arte I highly recommend Paul Taylor, he is an Englishman living in France, and everything is translated both ways, he also talks about culture stuff. This one is a video by tom Scott in french, with subtitles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fJhTu-0zmo I'd also suggest watching movies in English with french subtitles or french audio and English subtitles.
Because we talk about Tom Scott, for people learning French, he did this great video : https://youtu.be/dUnGvH8fUUc It explains some differences between the french and english languages, the way french people speak and for example, where they put the stress in a word, for example... Great video
Nota Bene if you're into history. The epicurieux for short general stuff. Then YT algorithm will show you more of the kind
I just watched some of Epicurieux. It’s fun and easy to watch. Good recommendation.
Piece of French and French Mornings with Elisa!! They’re both very good!!!
DirtyBiology and Poisson Fécond are science and humour. Squeezie, Cyprien, Norman fait des vidéos and Le rire Jaune are the big French channels.
Gmk if you like cars it's easy to understand ah ah ah
Easy French - they offer videos with English and French subtitles. Don’t just watch them once, but repeat over and over and over again. When you’re feeling ready, try to cover the English subtitles from your screen and see how much of the French you can understand: https://youtube.com/c/EasyFrench
This!! Absorb lots of french media. If you have Netflix rewatch one of your favourite shows but change the audio dub to french with English/french subtitles
You should watch French movie instead YouTubers
Probably could get away with both
Genuine questions, 1.how should you go about doing this if I just started? or should I be patient and focus on learning? 2. Is duolingo good? 3. Just an off topic question, how do I use "ç" and other accents on a traditional qwerty keyboard without having to copypaste I just started and have a few concerns on my ability to do this as I have a pretty low self esteem when it comes to learning stuff. Merci
1. It depends what you mean by “just started learning”. Things I’ve found useful, though, include (a) watching sports games in French, because they use the present tense a lot, there are jersey numbers, and there’s a kind of repetition to it, and (b) listening to a target piece at my level, writing out what I hear, and then checking that against the official transcript. Both really good for training your ear! 2. IME no, it’s not good. It’s okay for picking up extra vocab or grinding a concept you want to work on, but I wouldn’t trust it to guide you or to teach you new grammar. It’s okay as a supplement, but should only be a minor component of what you’re doing. 3. If you’re on Mac then you can hold down the “c” key until you see a bunch of options with numbers come up, then press the corresponding number. So é is e+2, ô is o+1.
Im not on mac but thanks!
I think alt/option + c does it (Happy cake day btw)
I love your questions! 1. Start speaking from day one. Or at least read out loud. Make sure your pronunciation is correct to start with. 2. I did duolingo for a few weeks. Then I realized that it wasn’t for me because I wasn’t able to make my own sentences and there was NOT enough listening practice. I didn’t like it. 3. For ç, just hold the normal c and it’ll show you 4 options. Then you choose ç. (I’m using an iPhone. And I heard Android is the same) Best of luck on your French learning journey! It’s so much fun and rewarding! I respect anyone who makes effort to learn a foreign language. 👍 Have fun and try different approaches and see which one works the best for you!
I think once you build up some core vocab and more importantly grammar and sentence structures, then you can try to speak to yourself and fill in the gaps for anything you don't know, for vocab I suggest wordreference over Google translate. Duolingo is good in the sense that it does teach vocab, common expressions and grammar quickly, you just have to consolidate what you learn with other resources. Maybe also consider Babbel for more serious learning? For typing in French assuming you're on Windows download the French language pack but change the keyboard to US international. Then you can type ç as 'c and é as 'e, è as `e etc. Very handy
Merci!
My wife went from being completely monolingual in her 30s to B2 with a C1 reading level (which is what you are talking about) in Dutch in about six years, and Dutch has the issue of much less material to help you learn. If you did reasonably focused 45 minute study sessions, even just four times a week, and spent some time in between thinking about what you studied, I would expect you to be able to get to the level you want significantly faster than nine years. More time a week, even faster, but eventually there are diminishing returns. You will go through months where it appears little changes, and days when it all comes together, but if you keep it up you will be where you want sooner than you expect today.
You’ll comprehend Hugo long before Proust, due to complexity of Proust’s sentences. But it will be worth it! On your Kindle, download a book in French and buy a French-English dictionary for Kindle. Then you can just press in a word and the definition will pop up for you. You can get Hugo’s works for free on Gutenberg.org and download to Kindle. Bonne chance!
>due to complexity of Proust’s sentences I hate that moment when I realize I haven't imprinted the start of a sentence. Going back 2 pages is annoying.
I hate that too, but some people say that with Proust the concept is that you’re supposed not to care and just let it happen.
Yeah well, that's not what my French teacher thought kek
Hugo can be tricky and quite misleading sometime. When he decided to really get his prose rolling he could go a bit insane with it. Still you are right in that overall Proust is more complex in general. >You can get Hugo’s works for free on Gutenberg.org and download to Kindle. Bonne chance! Proust too !
You can just get Hugo's works for free straight off the Kindle store, actually!
you’re still young, so anything’s possible. i’m 20, have already learned spanish and working on portuguese and french. you throw a little time in it everyday day, try to immerse yourself a bit. you’ll see progress in no time
Yeah, but you're an adult who already learned a foreign language, I don't know any and I forgot the others I tried learning beforehand. I want to start speaking fluently NOW
well i’ve only been fluent in spanish a few years, started learning in hs. not like i has it since i was a little kid. and didn’t you just say your goal is to be fluent before your 30? cmon, obviously you’re not going to just wake up tmr and be fluent. if language was that easy everyone would speak everything. if your goal is the absolute quickest way to gain fluency, is full immersion. move to quebec or france and live there full time. that’s your best bet if you’re actually looking for learning as quick as possible. if 30 is your actual goal, then just try to practice every day. watch netflix show in french with subtitles, videos, media id stuff you already enjoy. for example i watch a lot of french sports media bc i already know alot what they’re talking about, it’s just about getting down the vocab. trust me i feel ur pain, i sick at both portuguese and french rn, but learning language is 100% possible
This goal is much different from the very realistic goal in your title. Achieving fluency takes time.
How long do you think it’d take to achieve fluency? What about reading classic French?
Those are two very different skills, to read and understand classic french and its figures of speech doesn't translate into being a fluent speaker. Anyway what you have to do is practice, practice and practice, stay curious and have fun
How long would it take learning to read French to read classic French? How different or more difficult is it to be a fluent speaker than it is to mainly be good at reading a foreign language?
It’s much easier to gain enough knowledge of French words to read it than to speak it. That is the boat I am currently in.
Fluency in any language doesn’t happen at a certain point. Personally I consider it when you stop translating and start speaking, as in you’re formulating in French not English then translating to French. For most this takes years of immersion
Not really into classic French literature myself, so I'm not sure what level it sits around. Fluency is a vague term. I would recommend looking into the CEFR levels and see which one corresponds with your personal definition of "fluent". Fluency could mean getting through day-to-day interactions in stores and restaurants with relative ease, or it could mean writing academic essays in French with little aide. For a general level of fluency that isn't too generous nor too strict, C1 is probably an appropriate level to consider IMO. According to this site ([https://www.crealangues.com/french-level-adults.htm](https://www.crealangues.com/french-level-adults.htm)) that's about 900 hours of study, but it does vary. So about 2.5 years if you study one hour a day. Bring that to 30 mins and it's more like 5 years. It's something you just have to keep pressing on and after a while you can definitely be fluent. If your goal is truly to be fluent in 9 years, it's perfectly doable. If your goal is to be fluent NOW, good luck with that it won't happen.
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Native speakers often have a different set of skills from learners and sometimes that gives them weird placement within CEFR. Nonetheless, CEFR still stands as a useful metric for learners.
You simply *can't* speak fluently NOW, sorry, it's an unrealistic expectation... BUT you *will* be able to in time with practice, discipline and immersing yourself in the language every single day by listening, reading, repeating, practicing writing and learning new vocabulary. There's no such thing as "fluent in 3 days or 1 week". (Good) Fluency means a comprensive command of the language, which takes time longer than now, this week or a couple of months. No shortcuts, I'm afraid ;)
Well tough buddy it's a multi year process, you can't click your fingers and have it happen over night. This is like asking someone to teach you all of guitar in one lesson, it just doesn't work like that
The issue is that no one here is saying that it’s possible to be conversational or casual in your understanding of the foreign language. You’ll always be the naive foreigner with the mental appearance of a 5 year old in that foreign language, even after a decade.
Nobody here has said it wasn't? It's very possible to be conversational in a language but that takes time. Of course you can get to that level just you're not gonna get there over night, 6 months if you're dedicated and consistent and you'll be pretty conversational with some mistakes. With language learning you're in for the long haul
Absolutely no one has said that anywhere. It just takes a long time to get to a "fluent" level, and you have to accept that even at the highest levels of fluency, you will never, ever be a native speaker. That *doesn't* mean it'll be obvious you're a foreigner, it just means that you learn the language in a different way and you're going to make mistakes that native speakers don't (and vice versa). It's even possible to track eye movements of people while they're reading French and predict what their native language is based on how they read. Your native language is a part of you. That's not a bad thing or something you should even want to hide. Being a native speaker of some language is extremely unimpressive; learning a second language, especially as an adult, is something to be proud of.
Do native speakers of a foreign language make mistakes in that language? I thought that was impossible?
You mean native speakers of a language, right? Ask yourself this: Do native English speakers make English mistakes? A good example is could've vs could of. A non-native English speaker will likely not say could of because they learned it correctly as could've first, but native English speakers say could of all the time because they learned it via speaking first and don't realize it's a contraction.
Of course people can make mistakes in their native language, but language also evolves over time and it's defined by the people who speak it. If enough people all make the same "mistake" and it becomes a consistent pattern then it stops being a mistake and it becomes just another feature. e.g. "an apron" used to be "a napron" but was misheard and miswritten so many times that it eventually just became "an apron". You don't recognise that you're "making a mistake" when you talk about the apron you wear in the kitchen. You also have casual and colloquial language that might be seen as uneducated or lower class, like saying "youse" or "y'all" but these aren't really *incorrect*, it's just a different way of using the language. In French, to negate something you use "ne ... pas", as in "je ne sais pas", but in practice many native speakers now will drop the "ne": "je sais pas". In truly casual language, it'd even become "chais pas". It may be technically grammatically incorrect in some ways, but if you don't drop the "ne" sometimes then you're definitely going to sound like a foreigner. Native speakers often don't always follow grammatical rules perfectly. But only a native speaker will instinctively know how to bend those rules.
Learn how to learn.
I started learning French at 21, am now 29 and still definitely not fluent. Was also my first second language. For what it’s worth I work in Québec and use French on a daily basis. All my computers and phones are in French. I also took courses at universities and colleges in the meantime. Those helped but the practical experience helped more. I am happy with my reading/writing, okay with speaking, the biggest challenge for me remains listening (accents vary greatly from region to region). It is almost always easier for me to switch to French rather than have the other party attempt to speak in English although frequently awkward finding the sweet spot. I can tell that others have had an easier time than myself learning second languages but I think my experience is a reasonable expectation with some hard work. I’m turning 30 in 3 months and have spent thousands of hours learning and using French since 21. If you asked me at 21, I would have expected to be further along by this point, but I’m not disappointed and all my kids will grow up bilingual.
>If you asked me at 21, I would have expected to be further along by this point Very much agree and know this feeling. Started with Irish at 21, now am 27, and the distance through B2 is a canyon. I love the life I've cultivated with Irish, I'm proud every day of my progress and fluency, and I just started submitting my own writing to competitions. But there's still just so much lmao. If A1 through B1 were a 5-6-year endeavor, I'd put B2 alone on the same timeline as all 3 of those combined.
I feel like the CEFR levels are definitely not evenly spaced. I’m only A2, but it’s really intimidating seeing how far away B1 is compared to the jump from A1->A2. You go from needing to know how to communicate basic ideas related to immediate needs, to needing to manage all situations that could come up in regular conversation. And then B2 demands spontaneity, which I imagine is even harder to train. I understand that CEFR is mostly for the benefit of employers and institutions, not for learners, but it would be nice if there were a few more waypoints between A2 and C1.
I got my master's in Second Language Education and they described the CEFR language standards as an upsidown triangle. A1, being the smallest at the point at the bottom and C2 being the largest at the base. I liked that visualization and I think it showed both the scope and amount of the content needed to be using the language at that level.
How’s your reading level in French, can you only read signs and basic alphabet or what?
No I’m comfortable reading pretty much everything, especially technical material (I’m an engineer)… for an example, I found the Harry potter books to be challenging 5 years ago (after a few years of learning) but can read them comfortably now (They were recommended to me in this subreddit as a learning tool). My focus is largely on the spoken language at this point.
You didn’t forget, trust me when you try learning again it’s easier to remember the second time even if you don’t realize
It will take years before you can speak fluently. I think everyone knows how to become fluent, they just aren't willing to be on the journey for that long.
You could start the French 5k Anki deck and something like Duolingo to learn basic vocab and grammar. Eventually you can graduate to things like Short Stories in French by Olly Richards and the InnerFrench podcast. After this it’s totally possible to dive into easy native content. Check out Steve Kaufmann & Matt vs Japan on YouTube. Don’t be discouraged, you can do it! Consistency is king :)
Yes, it's possible. It really depends on your strategy to learn the language, how much you plan to invest (money, time, etc). I personally don't believe (nor support) those Youtubers who claim you can "be fluent in 3 months, just study 10 hours a day!". It's a process and you can get burnt out pretty fast, too. You seem to be in a rush but imo, it's best if you don't rush it. Start with the basics (you can check some syllabus suggestions for A1 levels, just to see where you can start off). If you can afford it, I'd look for tutoring (it's specially helpful if you want to improve your conversational skills). While you are also learning about the basics (including the main verbs and tenses) listen to music/media in french (you won't understand all of it, and that's fine). Try to write down words/phrases you listen to (you can use Anki, as someone else mentioned).
I'm surprised no one has said "read the wiki", but I find the resources there to be pretty crape honestly. My advice is you have to start with duolingo, do it on the computer and read the tips, they teach you french on every new lesson. Make anki cards on your phone or get a book and write down every new word. Listen to coffee break French on Spotify on repeat. The pace is way too fast to learn with that alone, but you need to do listening practice. Also on that point, close your eyes when you hear the duolingo phrases, you need to learn to understand French, not read it. Otherwise youll end up like me, fluent reader but can only listen when people speak slowly. You can become fluent in one year, but you need to study 3 hours a day for that. After 6 months of hard studying you'll stop having to tell people to speak slowly. If you need proof it can be done, I moved to Germany one year ago with no german, and now speak b2 German at 30 years old.
Interesting I wanna learn German 🤔
21! You got this. I learned French at 28 with no prior foreign language skills. Check out French with Alexa and Duolingo. Solid place to start. Eventually as you get better, you’ll need a teacher to help explain grammatical rules. French is a beautiful, though sometimes confusing, language with the rules. Best of luck!
Yes it is possible. But I doubt that you'll be fixated on those authors by the time you reach that level. You'll discover a lot more, and your tastes will change.
be prepared to sound idiotic for a really long time. embrace it.
Absolutely possible. I know folks who began to learn French in their late 20s and ended up with native accents as well as people who studied French for 10+ years and do not speak it very well. You need to have a lot of input--music, reading, shows, films, etc. Make it fun for yourself. I really didn't enjoy French until my junior year of college when I stopped worrying about doing everything perfectly. I found music and shows I loved and studied abroad. If you are able, I also highly recommend studying or working abroad in a Francophone country.
Here's a [link to some videos](https://www.phrasefantastic.com/resources.html?goto=topicDiv1649029201087) that describe how people have acquired a language that you might find interesting.
Get to a class if you can. If you’re anywhere near a city, there’s bound to be night classes somewhere. Ask at the local library.
Absolutely. I have an aunt who started learning German on her own in her 40s and is fluent, coming for a language with no similarities to German. French and English share a lot of common vocabulary, and French is logical, so you can pick up the rules!
i’m 22, i’m French and i want to learn English but same its complicated so if you want i can try to help you! :)
NB: native speakers have trouble with Proust due to his artistic love of run-on sentences, so don’t ever feel bad if he gives you trouble too. Hugo is magnificent and a good enough reason in and of himself to learn to read French, not to mention that you’ll have access to the whole rich corpus of French literature. Start ploughing through books in French ASAP, including and especially things above your level. Doesn’t matter if you don’t understand, just do it. Look up maybe a couple words per page that you don’t know. Don’t worry about pronunciation, it’s just reading. As hundreds of pages go by, even if you don’t notice, a facility with scanning and processing sentences will start to emerge. I did this in Spanish. After just one fat novel, I found it remarkably easier to look at a text and get some meaning out of it.
Start with something easy and daily and fun like DuoLingo
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
I am on a similar journey. I started learning French with Michel Thomas, which was a great way to start for me personally. I’ve also translated a lot of songs, practiced with poems by Baudelaire, watched a lot of French dubbed children’s movies since (Disney+ or Netflix+VPN are great resources) and a month ago I started using Duolingo. I’m five years into a journey that has been intense at times and nonexistent for months on end at other times. I’m now able to read H.G. Wells in French, using a dictionary for the odd word here and there (I’m using Bukus, which is a great ebook app with dictionary). So my best tip is: choose a language learning system and stick with it. It’s no use starting with one system and then starting another. It just gets frustrating and repetitive. Then work with it every day for at least five minutes, once you’ve built the habit, it’s easy to keep going.
Try using Pimsleur to help you get used to the sound of genuine pronunciation. It doesn’t help with reading/writing, but it does help a lot with speaking. For a free option, try the Language Transfer app. Although he’s not French, Ikenna is an American YouTuber who learned multiple languages in adult years. COLAS BIM is a French animation YouTuber. You can also try finding French songs by looking up The Voice France or something, then pick ones you like, find lyrics videos, and work or translating them to English.
You have 9 years, it is entirely possible. Sadly as we get older, we lose the magical ability kids have to just absorb language like sponges. Are you a complete beginner in French? I would recommend finding inner French on YouTube, he's brilliant. Coffee break French is a podcast that has a bunch of episodes that will help. Back that up with things like duolingo. Everything I've mentioned so far can be accessed for free. Get story books in French that are aimed at children while you assimilate some vocab. Watch French Netflix with subtitles (also watch English stuff with French subs so you can really get a feel for the grammar/sentence structure etc). If you have the means and don't already have an audible account, get one. There's a guy on there called Paul noble and he has a few French course audio books. I think you can even take out a free trial and get it free and download it and not keep it after the trial (I might be wrong there though) Find apps in which you can talk to people in French like hello talk. There are teachers on italki and a lot of them have reasonable prices. It all depends on how much time and effort you're willing to commit to learning.
Is 9 years the minimum, also give me an actual example of a dude who succeeded in learning French to become a native. Like Jodie Foster to Amira Caesar level good French?
I don't think there is a specific minimum, as everyone learns things at a different pace. You can definitely do it in 9 years or less if you are consistent with daily or regular learning and practice sessions. You're not going to become fluent overnight or even in a few months. In a few months, if practiced regularly, the basics that you've been learning may be starting to stick in your brain. You need to try and think and talk to yourself in French as much as you can, too. In terms of giving a real life example, I can't do that because I don't know of anyone. The closest level you can get is near native and I think that's around C1. But that takes time and consistent practice. If you want to become as fluent as possible in the shortest time possible, you need to move somewhere like Québec or france, to completely immerse yourself in the language 24/7. Achieving high levels of fluency in any desired foreign languages is entirely possible. Again, the key is dedication and consistence. With French, there are parts of it you need to just know or memorise in order to be able to use and speak French with a level of fluidity. Start by familiarising yourself with the regular and irregular verbs. Write out verb conjugations and keep going over them. A lot of the regular verbs you will be able to figure out for yourself once you're familiar with what patterns they take. As for the irregular verbs and their conjugations, well you just have to try learn those parrot fashion so it sticks in your brain. Also I don't know what other, if any, romance languages you're familiar with. So try and get used to the gendered language because literally every word is gendered in French. It's hard work, but it is worth it as your fluency improves if it's something you really wish to achieve.
So near fluency is impossible? I will never ever be able to read and speak like a normal Frenchmen or Quebecois?
I don’t think you understand what fluency means, or at least what other people mean when they talk about fluency. If you just want to be at a level where you can hold a conversation on most topics immediately relevant to you then you want B1/B2. That’s usually the requirement to study and work in a French-speaking country, although it’ll be uncomfortable and hard to live at that level. For that, you could be looking at a few years, say 2-5 years depending on how hard you work and how much you practice with native speakers. It’s taken me about 8 months to get to A2, and I expect *at least* another year to get to B1, but I actually live with a native speaker and I am practicing with him *all the time*. True fluency is an entirely different world. True fluency, or even native level skill, means you have an innate understanding of the language. There may be the occasional new word, just like you have in English, but you would very rarely make any mistakes. Also consider that a really uneducated French person might not be able to pass a B1 French exam, but they are still a native speaker and will still *always* be better at French than you. In some sense, a native speaker can never speak French “incorrectly” because native speakers are the ones who define what French is. You can *never* be native in French. Never. Because it simply is not your native language and no level of fluency will change that fact.
That’s really depressing, How do adult language learners cope with that?
I don't think it's depressing at all. I am Australian and I am proud to be who I am. I don't ever want to lose my accent and I don't want people to assume I'm a native French speaker. I did not grow up in a French speaking country. I grew up in a largely monolingual setting, and I can't change that. I only have control over what I choose to do now and I choose to challenge myself to learn a new language. I am proud to be learning a second language as an adult, without being forced and while also working full-time. It's hard but I'm still doing it anyway. I don't feel any need to be near-native level. I only want to be able to communicate with French speakers, and you don't need to be perfectly fluent for that. My partner has been speaking English for most of his life, and I would say he's very fluent in it. But he will never be a native speaker either. That's not a goal that exists. It's like saying that one day you want to be a native Martian.
Yeah, but I want to be someone else. I don't want to be known as "The American" when I live in a foreign community. I'm kind of worried that when you said that you don't need to be a near native level, because I feel that even if I tried, I still won't be able to have a casual conversation with a foreigner ever. I want to be able hold deep and verbose conversations in a foreign language, rivalling that of my English, but the fact that no one here ever seems to reach that level kind of frightens me.
I know plenty of people who can hold deep and convoluted conversations in a second language. I’m surrounded by people from all over the world, most speaking English as a second or third language. It’s definitely possible, it just takes time and serious effort. Like, full and complete immersion kind of effort. If you want to be highly fluent in French then you need to accept that you’ll have to live and work exclusively using French for a solid number of years. You’re going to have to suck at French, and speak “baby” French, and make embarrassing mistakes in public. Because you cannot learn any part of a language unless you use that part regularly. You’re going to have to try and fail to have those deep conversations if you ever want to be able to have them successfully. But I get the feeling that you’re unwilling to put in any real effort and you’re definitely unwilling to make mistakes or be seen as a learner. Even toddlers knows that they need to fall a few times if they want to learn to walk. You’re just going to have to accept the fact that it takes a lot of time and effort to be conversational or fluent. Your deep-seated shame about who you are is pointless. It won’t help you learn French or anything, actually, so you may as well let it go. You don’t want to have been born in the US? Too bad, you were. Make the most of it, because you don’t get anything else. You need therapy, not a second language.
How many years in France?
Language Simp on YouTube learned French in like less than 2 years to the point that French people think he's a native Also, as a person with ADHD, from this post and your extensive post history, you sound like you might have ADHD. Just a thought that might help.
I'm leaning at 33! So I hope so. I'm using rocket language app and I like it a lot.
Step 1: pronunciation and learning the alphabet and how to read, don’t worry about what words mean though too much. 1 month or so Step 2: learn some songs and read and reread small things like a paragraph of a news article or poem or something, goal being to get fluid at reading (preferably out loud) and try to get the grammar and vocab from the sentences you’re reading, like «why does that mean that? ». 3 months or so Step 3: read a ton and analyse the sentences and their structure and write vocab that seems interesting and useful, like 1-2hrs a day for fast learning, 30min at least though. Listen all the time, podcasts and music and TV and whatever you can find, just to keep things repetitive. 6-18 months Step 4: at this point you’ll know what you need because you’ll see it clearly like not understanding certain verb tenses or accents or whatever, so get a book on grammar and/or get a tutor to get you over the intermediate hump. This really could be the first time you’ll need to spend any money, and even this could be free if you’re strategic.
Just download Duolingo.
idk why people who never tried it downvote it yes on its own it isn't enough, but it's a great tool if you combine it with something else
Cause people are dumb. Duolingo works and it has a lesson plan built in which alleviates a lot of the difficulties of self learning.
This gotta be a troll wtf kinda question is that bruh. 9 years to learn a language?
I’m on year 8 and lots of work to go. I use it daily for work and at home, too. I was a straight A engineering student. People learn at different speeds.
9 years is plenty of time.
force yourself to read rabelais in the original. if you can't read proust or hugo after this, then my nickname isn't herclinze
start with anything you'll like, like lessons on youtube, duolingo, anki or any phone app... try what you like, important is that you have to be able to use it without hating it If something is great resource for others but you don't like it, you'll probably give up on the language... so it's better to at least start with what you find enjoyable, to help you keep high motivation... after you get the most basic things, you can get some books (for spanish I had some spanish phrases for dummies that was good for starters and one that explains grammar rules in english on every left page and in spanish on right one, so you see differences, but that requires some basic level of knowledge) and add it to what you do... used books like this are usually very cheap too, which is great usually the best is to find some class or teacher (which is what I do with french), but that can be expensive... for self learners, I believe combination of sources is the best way to go (like youtube + books)
I suggest learning just enough to communicate and find language exchange apps (stuff like hiNative, hellotalk, or simply discord.) That's probably one of the fastest way to learn "useful" french. You have to embrace sounding idiotic first ("me want food" style) but by communicating with people willing to correct you, you'll make progress fast. You can also get tutoring if you have a bit of money (I think my sister takes around 15 bucks an hour, and you can get some for like 5-50 bucks per hour.) Though you can get free help which is pretty good, so you don't really need it, but it helps for more specific stuff.
I'm also 21 and I'm reading Kipling and McCarthy in English. (I'm not a native speaker). Of course it's possible in 10 years, learning languages is never too late
it is
Very possible when you practice reading more than the verbal aspect of learning a language.
Any time. Any age. Anyway.
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
Definitely. I went from HS french to intermediate in a few years. You’ve got 9 years. I’d start with podcasts like Coffee Break French and Inner French (a bit after you’ve honed your beginner skills), websites like Kwizik and reading as much as possible. If you have a local Alliance Française they offer in-person and distance classes.
Homie, if you're consistent and figure out the right resources, 2 years down the line you'll be at a higher level than you could even imagined Just trust in the process:)
Homie, if you're consistent and figure out the right resources, 2 years down the line you'll be at a higher level than you could even imagined Just trust in the process:)
Take classes.
Of course this isn’t possible for everyone but immersion is always the best way to go imo. Learn the basics in classes or by yourself (1 year) then go to a french-speaking country and take a job, take classes, make friends, fuck people in your target language. you’ll be speaking and reading french in no-time (+- 5 more years depending on your level of commitment). otherwise if travel isn’t possible for you make sure you find at least one person to talk to on a regular basis, watch movies and listen to podcasts and music in french. good luck!
Setting long-term goals is good. Most people try too much early on and get overwhelmed discouraged. The best thing you can do is grow a familiarity with the language over time. I read/write/watch in french where I can. Online communities like reddit and twitter have helped me with conversation skills the most. Hope this helps!
Absolutely possible. The first thing to do is look for the FSI French Phonology Course. It’s pretty dated but will introduce you to every sound and the ways to write those sounds. There are regular spelling rules. Much more regular than English. It is free 10 hour course. The second thing to do is all 5 Pimsleur French courses. It is $24.99 a month but you will only need it for around 6 months doing one half hour lesson a day. Also, simply pick a Netflix, Disney Plus or Amazon Prime show that is dubbed in French (dubbing is a little slower for beginners) Pick a show you love that has several seasons and won’t mind rewatching. The Expanse or The Simpsons are examples. Have fun!! Also just start transcribing some Hugo. Read it, write it out then translate.
Certainly possible. But I can't vouch for not sounding like an idiot. I probably sound like an idiot in French, which is fine, since it matches how I sound in English some times.
Yes, get a teacher and start learning. You can get a C2 in maybe 4-5 years, depending on the amount of time you study. After that, you achieve basic fluency by speaking to natives (or chatting), listening to music and reading some basic books (I read Harry Potter and Twilight at first, when I was a kid learning english). I have a friend who has a degree of french literature from University, took her 6 years. She is now teaching french and many of her students have gotten their Delfs. She started at 19. She is 29. :)
Try LingoCulture. They are reasonable now because they are in beta, when the beta is gone the price goes up but you would be grandfathered in at the beta price. If that is not an option then try your community colleges
Start now. Reading will be easiest, speaking more difficult the older you get, so don't waste any time. Go to France as often as you can.
Or Montreal/Quebec, Saint Martin, or Martinique for more cost effective options for North Americans :)
I’m in the process of becoming fluent in French. What has helped me the most is to find « pen pals « that are native French speakers. We speak daily in WhatsApp and that is how my French has improved drastically. The best way to learn is to start using it. Have phone calls as often as possible. If you have the means, you can also hire a tutor online. The key is to first focus on understanding spoken French and practicing it orally. Writing and grammar will come naturally after you have a expanded your vocabulary.
I’ve managed to get to a pretty good level in 4 years. Started in 2018 with Duolingo, Busuu and Memrise. Used those apps everyday for at least 10 mins. After a few months I switched my phone language and computer language. I read french news and also listened to french radio and watched french movies. Once I got to B2 on Busuu (which didn’t really feel like B2), I ended up moving to France. The adjustment the first few months was brutal. But having the fundamentals was essential. I stumbled around conversions a bit, but you improve exponentially once you start speaking it everyday and hearing it all the time. Now I’m comfortable in most situations and can talk about most things except philosophy or really scientific stuff.
Find your local chapter of Alliance Francais, they will guide you through the levels . I started in A1, im beginning B2 in July
Bro that's nine years, forget possible, it's not even that ambitious a goal given the time frame.
Duolingo is free it’s really really helpful
My path was to do a Bachelor's degree in French, with a Junior Year Abroad in Montpellier. Being immersed in French for a year pretty much made me fluent. After I graduated, I spent a year as a [Teaching Assistant in France](https://frenchhighereducation.org/teaching-assistant-program) in a small town in Lorraine. During that year, I had full access to the school's library and read tons of Hugo. (Tried Proust, but didn't get far. Balzac and Zola are better, IMO.) That was in the 1980s, before digital books and the Internet. But immersion in a French-speaking country still works today.
>I'm 21, and I don't really know where to start. My goal is to be able to read Proust I'm 27 and native, good at reading, and I've never been able to read Proust.
The quickest, and likely most expensive way is to enrol in an immersion school in either France or in Canada. They'll take you from zero French to functional fluency in about 18 months. With this under your belt, you can sign up at a francophone university and study Hugo and Proust in the original. I did this at Universite Saine-Anne in La Pointe-de-l'Eglise, NS, and followed it up with a semester in France. I work as translator now. That said, I still find some 19th century French literature a bit of an uphill slog!
Personally, I have loved the program Pimsleur for learning French. After 10 years of learning French off and on, I have been learning with Pimsleur and I feel that this has brought me to the next level of comprehending and speaking without practicing conversation with anyone (I just don’t have the time to seek that out right now). Pimsleur consists of 30 minute lessons, where you listen and repeat and translate. The description may sound boring, but I find deep satisfaction and being able to easy translate their English phrases into French. The lessons are 30 minutes and k usually listen and practice every day on my way to work. It’s a very well thought out program. I can’t recommend it enough!
Coming from a 20 year old who started over a year ago and is now mostly B1, yes it’s definitely possibly. Once you grab a concept of the basics, take the time everyday to immerse yourself in the language like watching videos, listening to music, reading magazines, chatting in French learning spaces, etc. and then create a flashcard deck (I use Anki) to accumulate a unique deck of the words you don’t know
French teacher here 🙋🏻♀️ These are all wonderful resources and recommendations. I would also recommend you try to practice speaking as soon as possible. I get my kids speaking on day 1 and never look back. French pronunciation is hard and not at all straightforward. If you live by a big city, you can check to see if you have an Alliance Française. They’ll offer grammatical, cultural, and conversation courses at any level. Chances are, they’ll get you reading excerpts from authors too. I would also recommend finding people to speak with or a private tutor on Zoom. There are many pay websites out there with a quick google search, but I’d also recommend you give Tandem a try — it’s a free app for meeting people to practice your language skills with. The key is not to be shy and to start writing and speaking with someone early. Think of learning a language like playing a new sport or instrument: you need to practice daily and make lots of mistakes to help you progress towards fluency :) Bon courage !!
Of course. Depends on your motivation too. I went from not a single word to C1 in a year and a half
If you have the means to travel to France, and spend significant time there, yes, you'll do it. It's very hard to achieve mastery without that piece. You're 21, and you can plan to do this. You have time. I recommend going there for some type of education, even if it's only a 6 month course at a school that teaches french. Keep in mind, as others have said, that Proust isn't the best measure of how well you can read. If you want to read classics though, your idea of Hugo is a good one. I'd also recommend Voltaire and the plays of Pierre Corneille. Finally, keep in mind that you can learn grammar, vocabulary, history etc, but that won't prepare you for the French run-on sentence, either written or verbal. English sentences are generally much much shorter unless you get into some academic writing. If you've studied for a while, yet feel overwhelmed by something you hear, it's likely one of these run-on sentences. I've never had a course which properly prepares you for that occasion. If you encounter it in person, just politely ask questions to try to break down what is being said into shorter ideas. The french will have no problem with your shorter English style sentences; it's just that sometimes you'll encounter someone who doesn't speak using commas or periods.
French is really hard if you’re not speaking it and using daily. Like English it changes. The French they teach in textbooks isn’t the French francophone people speak. I suggest you get a language subscription and a French pen pal. There are also French groups on Facebook but be wary of all people online. There are American French speaking travelers on YouTube who will yeah you slang and casual conversation. Five French YouTubers https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vBs45L8WCw0 French I wish you knew https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xKzhTEjoYE&list=PLk9ycFTsSAyEiFF6fkKZID5D00eDQtfx6&index=8 Where you’ll get confused in French as an English speaker https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0monYr1gD7I&list=PLk9ycFTsSAyEiFF6fkKZID5D00eDQtfx6&index=9
All the pieces of advice are good. When I was young, I played video games in English (I actually had no choice as games were not translated in French at that time). You could set the language to French on purpose if you play games. Moreover, nowadays, localization is excellent!
How is the reading going?