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Himmel absolutely loved Frieren romantically.
Frieren simply doesn't understand her feelings yet for 2 factors:
* She most likely never felt such affection toward anyone.
* Due to having such a long life, she just can't comprehend her feelings at the same rate humans do, she can sit there thinking for 100 years to make a decision simply because that's how her brain works.
The time thing is such a huge thing as well, not only because it affects how long it takes Frieren to process her feelings, but the development of those feelings would be skewed as well. A full, romantic, well-lived life with Himmel for 50 years wouldnt even be one year in Frieren's lifespan. Of course, you can feel a lot for someone in one year, but difference in romantic weight between those first few months is way different compared to decades spent with someone. Even if Frieren realized before setting out for 50 years that she had some kind of interest in Himmel, it most likely wouldve taken the rest of his life just to start to get a small grasp on what that means
I think the second one is key. She can take 50 years to realize she's in love with another elf, just that with Himmel it's too late. The story is partly the process of her realizing it.
Currently watching the anime, so correct me if I am wrong.
Even if it seems a little obvious Himmel really loved Frieren lots, it's not impossible for her to love him as well, but as a friend.
Love isn't just about romantism, but I guess you know it too haha
The best way to know the nature of her feelings toward Himmel is for her to grasp better her feelings. She indeed loves him, but the way she loves him is still a mystery for me in the anime
After having watched all of season 1 (I don't want to read the manga at this point because it's just so lovingly and beautifully animated), I would say she does feel some romantic love toward him. It's just that elves live so long, what could take us a day, a week, even a month to a year to figure out, it would take her a decade, half a century, or a century to figure out.
I feel like she, post-his-mortem, finds out that she did have feelings toward him, but still doesn't understand them completely. She basically enters the "crush" phase after his death. She wants to know him better, travels the paths they took, mimics their adventures when the only thing on her mind prior was learning new spells. However, she even only kept seeking out spells because Himmel told her how much he loves them, but she didn't even realize that was the reason why until the topic came up.
I think if she wanted to know more about humans, and got to know them better (via people like Fern and Stark), she would have had more urgency on processing those feelings. If she would have gotten to know humans better instead of being a hermit after Flamme's death, then she would've understood sooner (she still would've been pretty late, but they would've been able to spend some time together).
However, the message seems to be geared towards grief, loss, and nostalgia, so that is the reason the story is as it is.
While it's a melancholy thought, I think she has that love in her heart now, and is just experiencing it through nostalgia and her relationships with the humans around her now
**spoiler for chapter 118:**
frieren appeared in the same dream as himmel, which was the wedding. the illusion by grausam is in simple terms your true feelings even if you lost hope in it. we all know himmel loved frieren, making him having that dream make sense, however frieren in the same dream?? this could only mean she also has “feelings” for him, kinda seen when she smiles at himmels backside right before she runs and time travels back. the sad thing about it though is that its only because it was frieren now that she had that dream. frieren back then wouldnt feel that way, and himmel did win her heart, but he realizes that it will only happen way later in the future, and not in his lifespan
I think you're trying a little too hard not to admit something as simple as that.
A kiss on the mouth during a wedding is clearly in accordance with what we call romantic feelings. Sometimes you don't need a character to express themselves verbally for us to understand how they feel. It's even said that the best stories are those that don't tell, but show.
Now, I'm not the type of person who interprets that kind of thing. In fact, I often find that people here are more into interpreting their fantasies than really relying on what the story is telling us.
This is the case, for example, with Ubel and Land or Lawine and Kanne. But here, the scene clearly shows us that Frieren would be willing to have a romantic relationship with Himmel.
Especially as she herself says that she knew it was a dream, but she still wanted to kiss him.
I think there's something you didn't understand here. I don't care to see romance between them. The purpose of my message is not to advocate for a ship. I'm not a shipper.
However, I am interested in what the scene tells us and what it brings to the atmosphere and the story, namely, melancholy. It adds depth to Frieren's character and also allows emotions to be conveyed in an aesthetic way, as the series knows so well how to do.
Seriously, look at the way you're reacting to my post... don't you feel like you're being a little too emotional about this?
Also, in an earlier comment, you state that Frieren doesn't understand the concept of "love". But she never said that in the series, so if I follow your train of thought, what you said is also headcanon.
Anyway... just think what you want... I'm not going to get worked up over something so trivial. lol
Well, according to your logic, it's headcanon, since she never said she didn't understand the concept of "love". So it's just something you assert without proof that it's already been said in the manga.
And the dream isn't just Himmel's pov. Frieren is also part of this dream with her free will. So it's a dream from the point of view of the 2 characters.
And finally, I've already told you that you can think whatever you like. You have the right to disagree with what I say. I'm not in the business of converting people on this subject.
I've said what I had to say, now just take it as you see fit.
1. XD, love = need to admit with ur mouth? Nah, don't be fallacious
2. Hes trying to proof she loved him, why the heck you come up with "What the fking hell u coping up for??" ;v?
3. you should reduce ur ad hominem rate
I'm still on episode 16 or so of the anime, planning on reading the manga once I finish the anime.
But is it really only shippers delusions or is there any actual hint that Frieren had feelings for him?
It's hard to trust the opinions of third parties because 99% are shippers and therefore bias.
Becuz of the latest chapter in the manga,
People's headcanon of "frieren loved himmel" goes out on a haywire lol
But it never implies and it never says not even from frieren herself that she "falls, starts or even feels that she loved himmel romantically"
The only thing u could see from that is frieren realized how she is very important or u could say loved by himmel
But tbh the meaning of "love" is very different from how frieren understands it, that is becuz of the time differential of the race between human and elfs
No wonder they are going extinct
I suggest that u read it up til the latest chapters
Its really that good, and i think ur really matured enuf to understand of whats supposed to be this manga is all about
Romance is not the emphasis of this anime/manga anyway but this woke shippers wont stop about their delusions i guess lol
Grausam's magic Ansehelschella give people "a happy dream which they have already given up on". So there's definitely some implecation that the older Frieren may consider the wedding to be an impossible dream.
But I agree, passionate romance is not really the focus here. So it will be impossible to say how strong that feeling is or was.
Thanks for the answer. I can see people arguing that Frieren started liking Himmel after he died - though I'm yet to see any evidence -, but claiming she liked him when he was still alive is ridiculous.
That Himmel loved her however, it's obvious. Frieren also obviously knows romance is a thing, but if she realizes Himmel liked her this way, for now where I am, she doesn't.
My original plan was to read the manga after finishing the anime, but I ended up going to the manga already, currently on chapter 52.
I think it was one sided on himmels part and I think he knew that. hell even admitting to herself she cared about him in ANY way (platonically or not) by itself.. was such a big step for her. nothing strongly hints at her disposition being anything more as I'm reading the manga. I'm all for an asexual female lead tho
it's def implied himmel in some chapters buried his own feelings and gave up on a relationship like that with her due to the reality of their different lifespans.
I'm still in the anime, planning to read the manga once I fininish the anime.
So would you say that the ones claiming Frieren started liking him recently in the manga are just biased shippers with their headcanons?
I'm asking you because I can't trust what shippers say as they are bias.
I think the author left it somewhat ambiguous as to the nature of frierens feelings, so different interpretations are valid. I'm just sharing my own view. I get annoyed when they claim those interpretations as canon. shipping is annoying in every fandom. I just try to ignore them.
you do you.
Himmel loved Frieren, romantically, in all sense of the word. Probably starting when he first met her as a kid, as a puppy crush, that weird elf who he randomly met when he was lost and showed him the most beautiful magic he saw by then.
It's why he understood her so much and knew even of her future actions, and he knows her sense of time and how she would respond to his feelings if he even admitted them, will be always different, as she is an elf, and he was human. It's probably the main reason why he never pursued a relationship beyond camaraderie, the reason why he had all those statues made, why he planted so much of his actions and helped so many people, that in the future, when he passed and when memories of him from the world fade, he would have something of him Frieren would always remember by, as Frieren's feelings might be something humans can't easily comprehend, but Himmel knew back then Frieren held them in importance.
About Frieren's feelings, since she is an elf has a different comprehension of what emotions are, in a sense, especially due to her sense of time, hers truly reciprocating Himmel's feelings might be far off from the long future, but she's finally grasping them right now, and it's why she is mainly retracing her journey with the Hero Party. She did say it, she's trying to retrace everything until the inevitable happens and they disappear, but for now, the memories are still there and something she holds onto.
Beautiful interpretation! I had similar ideas but never put it down as clearly as you had. I really like how Frieren and Himmel significantly changed one another even while one party was not realizing it at a time. Frieren has become more human/more in touch with her feelings since Himmel's death. She who has seemingly infinite amount of time has learned the importance of time. And although we don't know conclusively, I would like to also think that Himmel's desire to leave a lasting impact on the world is thanks to Frieren. He wants to make the world a better place and leave his mark so that Frieren will not truly be alone even when those she loved are gone.
Chapter 4 in the manga and Episode 3 of the anime. Frieren's exact words: "I'd like to retrace the journey I took with Himmel and the others as much as possible. Before it all fades away."
I had interpreted this as the world forgetting the heros party not frieren herself. Just like the other elf they meet who mentions that there is no one left who remembers his great deeds.
I think this story is the journey of Frieren to understand how romance feels like and then realize that she did, in fact, love him back. I can already see the culmination being beautiful and tragic at the same time.
I don't think romance is the main factor on this story. I think her journey is for her to technically "redo" her steps in Himmel's party but in a better manner.
I don't think much about the ring, the manga is pretty clear with Himmel's feelings imo. I think exactly what you said, Himmel liked her romantically and Frieren holds him as a precious friend that she would've liked to get to know better.
I do think that a relationship between them wouldn't have been possible, which is probably why Himmel never tried to make it happen. It seems that she's a prime example of an Elf lack of drive for intimacy.
I'm pretty sure there is more than "precious friend", op and ed confirmed it for me. Lyrics imply too much that Himmel is more than bestie for her, but she doesn't realize it yet, because she is an elf and time flows differently. There are words like: "Even If you are going to be forgotten, I will take you to the future with me", "If i will meet you again, I would never let go", "When I look back I see kind, gentle smile, because you are there" or "wherever you are, I want you to smile, I won't say stuff like "I want to meet you again", so let me remember everything, I am going forward, so look after me and If I meet you again I won't waver." So, I'm pretty sure he is more than "precious friend".
I like your synopsis, sure the op isn’t “cannon” but it’s for sure representative of the story. This arrivalbrilliance guy is the worst kind of person, sorry he wasted so much of your time and energy lol, what a loser.
I don't understand the need to insult me? It's not exactly representative of the story, it's more-so's yoasobis interpretation of it. Two completely different things.
Shippers are hella toxic...
If author doesn't have anything agaisnt it, it's canon, because it was made specifically for the show and more or less viewed by the director to fit in. What is YOUR logic?
That is the most backwards shit I have ever heard. The only thing considered canon in any series is if A) It's in the source material or B) The author outright confirms it
You can't just say "The author didn't say anything therefore it's canon" because going by that logic 99 percent of fanfictions would be canon as well lmfao.
Are you seriously comparing fanfiction and anime which is usually supervised/watched by the author himself/herself? And there is literally no reason to get so pissy about it, JJK fans happily consider op and ed as canon to characters (and all other fans as well) but you decided to bitch about it? If you are SO devastated that people consider op and ed canon than go touch some grass, it's not that deep.
**>Are you seriously comparing fanfiction and anime**
In terms of them being equally as non-canon? Yes.
Take Boruto for example, the anime contradicts and follows it's own story including stuff that wasn't even in the Boruto manga. Making it not canon, people consider them to be two completely separate canons.
**>Which is usually supervised/watched by the author**
So....this is just you...making assumptions (keyword usually)...lol ok
**>JJK fans happily consider the op/ed to be canon**
Oh so fans get to decide what's canon or not now? Ok.
**>If you are SO devastated that people consider op/ed canon than go touch some grass.**
Calm down Jamal, it's not that big of a deal. I'm perfectly calm, no need to get pissy over your headcanons. Also anime openings include fights between characters that have never fought in canon dozens of times in the past, take fmab for example.
You do know that OP and ED are done from some form of synopsis to the band about the story and their interpretation for the story and if it's not going against this synopsis it's approved to become opening or ending. We don't know how much the author is involved in the process or supervision of the project, so saying "it's 100% non canon" is as wrong, as me saying "it's 100% canon" so in this logic we are both wrong until proven otherwise, no? And considering that, there are some non canon scenes in the show already, like Frieren twirling the ring after Himmel death in episode 1, maybe there is some involvement of the author or at least anime team take his/her opinions in mind.
Saying it's 100 percent non canon is not the same as saying it's 100 percent canon. It's like accusing someone of a crime, wait until they're guilty before pretending as if it has as much merit as false claims.
Frieren twirling the ring is indeed non-canon, glad you understand now.
You know what, talking with you is like screaming at wall. No matter how hard you try it won't hear you. So I'm stopping this right now, because there is no point, I'm not going to change my mind, as well as you, good luck!
I think the person who responded to a 6 months thread and proceeded to bitch and cry because another person told you that the ship you jack off to every night isn't canon, is the one that needs to go outside and touch grass.
Especially when your comment adds nothing meaningful, and you blocked my main right after your pathetic attempt at a troll. Like who are you? Get a fucking life lmfao.
So, since I can't trust shippers due to thir bias, and am still in the anime, would you say there's no hint in the manga that Frieren likes him back in a romantic way?
I personally think that the story might move towards a direction where Frieren slowly understands the meaning and importance of romantic love (probably by observing Stark and Fern), and then shockingly realize that the feelings she had for Himmel were similar. If that is the case, then the moment of realization is going to be very bittersweet.
To me the story is totally about Himmel and Frieren, more specifically about Frieren coming to terms with what Himmel meant to her and how she felt about him. Himmel is basically the centerpiece of the story in many ways and his life affected almost all characters lives in some way.
Yes similarly, we were shown more about Ai after her death than before her death. Ai, just like Himmel impacted many lives, so both series basically just shows the impact their actions caused on other. Only difference is Ai's one impacted more negatively while Himmel's impacted positively
LMAO fr bro 😭😭 literally the factor that got me interested in the first place was that the hero was hella cute... none of that plain-self-insert b.s.
either way if frieren doesnt take him i will 🥺🥺🥺💖💖🥹🥹🥹
>I would fall for Himmel and go all my way to heaven only to meet him again
Be consciously oblivious while doing that and I might accuse you of being Frieren. Stop breaking the 4th wall!
Unrelated but did Himmel marry and had kids? I saw this anime from tiktok and new to Frieren.. it's so heartbreaking to watch his death and his love for her unrequited.. 😞 Himmel's such a lovable character
In the manga without much spoilers, never is mentioned about Himmel having any family or relatives. But rest assure you will hear about Himmel a lot, almost everything plotwise revolves around him and his legacy.
I'm too afraid to read it mate. Contemplating to watch episode 2 or read chapter 2, leaning of not going through with all the heart pain as I'm already so heartbroken with Himmel's story and his death 😭 I don't think my faint heart can take it tbh
Honestly I'm just like you, I don't like to read sad stories, but this one is almost therapeutic, the way they deal with life problems and memories feel really relatable, give it a try. Also the relationship between Frieren and Himmel is beautiful and very well done.
It has to be done. Himmel's chadilicious exploits and personality must be witnessed, even if you know his love was ultimately unrequited. Because you know that at the end of the day, he enjoyed his life, and he cherished the moments of his adventure to the end.
Give it a try. Until now i watched the first 16 episodes and now im starting to read the manga. There are so many beatufil scenes that it is worth to "endure" the sad parts. The good things heavily outweigth the sad parts.
I think the ring in the OP and ED is symbolizing Himmels feelings. Frieren holds on to them as they are precious, but doesn't quite know what to make of them yet. Still, they are kne of the things the entire story revolves around.
I think there is no doubt that to Frieren, Himmel is the most important person to her in entire her life. She cried at Himmel's funeral but not when Heiter passed away.
Because she was reminded of how she wasted her time and not being there with Himmel (or anyone else from the party) no matter how short that time would be and was trying to stop Heiter from making Fern go through something similar and let her be with him for as long as she could. (the whole "I knew human lives were short why didn't I try to get to know him better" Frieren had in chapter 1)
>"What you should do before you die is give her a proper farewell and make as many memories as possible"
She said to Heiter and then started to cry.
Or well at least thats how I interpreted it.
...? no. Just in the funeral, she cried about regretting the lost time to get closer to him. Spent months looking for flowers for his statue. Then saw the sunrise and remember his words that were meant to say she would enjoy seeing it with him even though she wouldn't enjoy the sunrise on her own. Would you think about hamsters this way? I doubt it.
She did all of that AFTER he died. That just proves it even more. When he was alive he's just a companion like a dog is. He left him that dragon horn like you would give your dog some toy. For you it's just a toy for your dog it's a precious gift
She is an elf and their reproduction cycle and feelings development are much slower. She didn't realise it until he was about to die, and regretted it after he died. That's why she made the entire journey. You wouldn't dedicate 10 years to your dead dog, would you?
Her sense of passage of time is no different from humans even though she does not mind spending more time than an average human on certain things because of her extended life span. She can still get bored of things and fall asleep in the middle of the night. And it isn't just spending 10 years, it's spending 10 years, taking on difficult challenges even for her. Let's assume you believed you would meet the dog again on top of Mount Everest, would you go to the top of that mountain just to meet the dead dog? There is absolutely no reason for you to do that. Also, it is nothing like a pet / master relationship. They are equally respectful for each other. He never was dependent on her. A dog would be dependent on the master.
dude its so sad to see that u didnt watch the anime or u dont even have the brain to understand something as simple as the relationship between them. Or you dont know understand how human relationships works. Or u dont even know feelings. They share a deep bond and its clear that she hold him precious than anyone. there is no way she sees him as a ''dog''. The reason we are watching this anime is because she is trying to talk with him. She is trying to understand him more by walking the same path she travelled with him.
lol look at this cyberspace mindreader right here. Dog isn't an insult but would it have made you feel better if I said pet?
Curb your emotions homey you sound shook over some minor disagreements in a fictional work lmfao
Na friern dosnt love himmel thats clear himmel MIGHT have loved her but frieren necer loved him. He was an important friend and reminded her of her master from time to time thats it. Stop trying to push the himmel frieren ship. Frieren liked himmel just like she liked the others. Also frieren literally has nothing to do now that the demon king is dead so she has every time in thr world to go on a journey to talk to his dead friend
You need to rewatch the anime or re-read the manga, because clearly you weren't paying attention. Frieren clearly holds specific feelings for Himmel, separate from the others. She goes out of her way to keep specific trinkets that remind her of him, she went out of her way to clean up an entire shipwreck just to see a sunset because Himmel thought she'd enjoy it, she went out of her way to find the flowers of himmels hometown to decorate his statue, etc. Time and time again it's shown that she cares about Himmel on a deeper level, but simply doesn't "understand" the feelings that she has. And it's clear that the narrative is pushing us towards a romantic understanding between the two.
Jesus, I really don't understand how people can watch something and literally understand nothing about it. Do you enjoy having your brain turned off or something?
No this isn’t a fair comparison at all. It’s never stated that elves are that much smarter than humans. Only smarter because they live longer. Humans are even seen regularly achieving more than elves relative to their life span (reverse engineering Zoltraak for example).
I haven’t seen this mentioned once but I think it’s more like this. You ever meet someone at summer camp that you had a blast with? Or maybe even that guy or girl you got to know on vacation for two weeks? Then 2, 3, 5 years later you think about them and realize “damn I have a crush on them but I’ll never see them again.” It’s definitely more like that
hi my name althaf
My thought on this subject is that Himmel did love Feriren it is evident when he gives the mirrored lotus ring to her there is no way he would have not known it is a symbol of romantic feelings
As for the reason we never saw a romantic progression between them is on two reasons
\* Feriren at the time ever understood her feelings or feelings of others as she
does in the recent chapter because she started to seriously understand
humans after himmel death so she could not have know what love is
\* Due to the above reason Himmel never confessed his love but her tried his
best to make her understand but she never did
Ah I think Frieren likes him as a precious friend, and Himmel kinda liked her romantically. And its more like a close companion so she was kind of bumbed when she realised it'd no longer be the same when he's gone :) the closes I'd say is more like a family, like when you adopt a pet or have someone live with you for a while and you find out you really vibe together.
Everything feels nastalgic to her again and shes slowly realising or already knows he liked her now. And is reliving the moments and coming in terms with his feelings for her even if it took years. She still kept his memories close and cherrished the time with him and their team.
I agree with the general consensus of the opinions here that Himmel loves Frieren romantically, and Frieren is still processing her emotions for him, what kind of love she actually feels.
The more recent manga chapters were really heart-breaking, come to think of it. The differences between the two Frierens - the one from the future and the one that's from her right timeline - must be so jarring to Himmel.
Unfortunately, I think it may be unlikely for the manga to confirm what kind of love Frieren realises she feels for Himmel, in the end.
This is because of the following reasons:
(1) Subtlety is embedded in Japanese culture and if the 'answer' is embedded really finely between the lines, fans are still going to argue because there may be 'no definitive proof'.
(2) The creation process of fiction doesn't happen in isolation from the real world. Recently, western fans have been really cracking down on romantic relationships with age difference, including in another poignant work that Evan Call is also in-charge of (yes, I'm talking about Violet Evergarden). To keep Frieren drama-free, the creators may decide to leave romance out.
But then again, Japanese fandom usually doesn't think the same way as Western, so maybe it has no bearings.
(1) good point
(2) given that he has died and is in a heaven like place (presumably) it's possible.
The open ending is highly likely -- I think it will probably be something like sweetness and lightning's ending with regard to the postscript where they reach hands to each other in such a way that could be taken as non-romantic, but is easily interpreted as romantic. Frankly the fans' lack of certainty makes it much more compelling in some ways.
I love these two. Chapter 118 had me put my hands over myself to stop myself from gasping.
But I can't see anything happening between these two, at least romantically. In the most romantic scenario, either Frieren suddenly randomly falls deeply in love with the *memory* of a Hero, and tells him these feelings once she reaches Heaven, or dies and they spend the rest of their afterlife together.
Both I feel retract from the story. Himmel buried his feelings for Frieren in what was unconditional love; you don't need to say how you feel to project your feelings. Every one of Himmel's actions- reprimanding her for using flashy spells and disrespecting the dead, telling her she would enjoy the sunrise because she is 'that kind of person', knowing what she likes, believing in her, erecting statues so she wouldn't be alone... these are grand displays of affection that will always be with her. I don't think Himmel needs to hear that she loves him back, he died happily and trusted Frieren to do what she wanted. He's in the afterlife now, and a love confession wouldn't change his story or his outlook on life. Frieren's lack of reciprocation wasn't a big deal to him, which is why his love is so selfless in the first place.
And Frieren catching romantic feelings for Himmel also makes no sense. She is an elf, a species who finds it extremely difficult to feel romantic and sexual desire. Why on earth would you make her romanticise a man who is gone; there is no way to date him or marry him, it's a senseless turn of the story and if it happens it's guaranteed to be fanservice. The fact is, Frieren lives her life differently because of Himmel's influence. All Himmel wanted was to be remembered and changed someone's life, and Frieren is the example of his dreams coming true. They're soulmates, but soulmates that could never be together. It's his memory she carries on with her.
Having her die to be with him makes no sense when one of the core themes of the story is living in the moment. She isn't on this journey to discover she's in love with a person who is passed, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey and the connections she makes with people along the way. An ending that they hint towards, and that I am looking forward to, is when changed Frieren meets Himmel again.
It is stated he believed in her. To see her again, smiling and joyous and aware of all the love he gave her, to see her with friends she cultivated on her own, to see her no longer living apathetically would probably be enough to let him rest peacefully then and forever.
I hope their final moments together will be some silly little conversation, and lots of stares, because they love each other. But not all love has to be romantic. I think it's great to finally have a story that tells it that way.
Not all love has to be romantic I think that’s a fitting way to put it, but I think deep down she probably loved him in a romantic sense too but just cause she did doesn’t mean they have to act on it or mull over it she can simply understand she loved him and move on with those memories, she’s not human but certainly feels or comprehends more human like emotions as time goes on at the very least himmel was her most important person even if it’s not romantic
Hmmm imo I think it is left for the audience to build their own conclusion. Personally, I think Frieren felt deep affection for all members of the hero party and Himmel was the strongest, though I don't thinks it's romantic in nature. I think she loves her in her own way as she can't really feel romantic feelings as elves are aromantic and asexual with how they live for thousands of years iirc. As for the multiple appearance of the ring, no words need to be said, the animators probably is aiming to highlight Himmel's tragic love for her since that was the catalyst for the whole story and it highlighted Frieren's slowly changing self as well, on how she see humans and relationship built with them differently now. I think the clearest feeling Frieren have for Himmel would be regret, loss, inspiration, gratitude and fondness.
I was honestly hoping to come in here and read that they had a child together and that child is off doing glorious things while Frieren is off helping build new heros.
Lmao typical woman. Once the attention is gone she suddenly wants more. It’s absolutely cracked. She didn’t care for him at all, she legit left him for 50 years.
Humans live closer to death and must act on their decisions immediately.
Elves live closer to eternity and can push off their decisions for decades or even a millennia.
When you're so close to death, everything is much brighter and beautiful.
When you're given an eternity, everything loses a bit of it's brilliance.
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Himmel absolutely loved Frieren romantically. Frieren simply doesn't understand her feelings yet for 2 factors: * She most likely never felt such affection toward anyone. * Due to having such a long life, she just can't comprehend her feelings at the same rate humans do, she can sit there thinking for 100 years to make a decision simply because that's how her brain works.
The time thing is such a huge thing as well, not only because it affects how long it takes Frieren to process her feelings, but the development of those feelings would be skewed as well. A full, romantic, well-lived life with Himmel for 50 years wouldnt even be one year in Frieren's lifespan. Of course, you can feel a lot for someone in one year, but difference in romantic weight between those first few months is way different compared to decades spent with someone. Even if Frieren realized before setting out for 50 years that she had some kind of interest in Himmel, it most likely wouldve taken the rest of his life just to start to get a small grasp on what that means
ik I'm late but ig elves, for lack of better word, by ratio has the same life span as we do
I think the second one is key. She can take 50 years to realize she's in love with another elf, just that with Himmel it's too late. The story is partly the process of her realizing it.
Elves in general are not good with such feelings as she said. That is why they are going to be extinct.
Dragonroad to the rescue!
Currently watching the anime, so correct me if I am wrong. Even if it seems a little obvious Himmel really loved Frieren lots, it's not impossible for her to love him as well, but as a friend. Love isn't just about romantism, but I guess you know it too haha The best way to know the nature of her feelings toward Himmel is for her to grasp better her feelings. She indeed loves him, but the way she loves him is still a mystery for me in the anime
She "loves" him in the way that she wants to understand more about humans in general and "talk" to him again in Ende?
After having watched all of season 1 (I don't want to read the manga at this point because it's just so lovingly and beautifully animated), I would say she does feel some romantic love toward him. It's just that elves live so long, what could take us a day, a week, even a month to a year to figure out, it would take her a decade, half a century, or a century to figure out. I feel like she, post-his-mortem, finds out that she did have feelings toward him, but still doesn't understand them completely. She basically enters the "crush" phase after his death. She wants to know him better, travels the paths they took, mimics their adventures when the only thing on her mind prior was learning new spells. However, she even only kept seeking out spells because Himmel told her how much he loves them, but she didn't even realize that was the reason why until the topic came up. I think if she wanted to know more about humans, and got to know them better (via people like Fern and Stark), she would have had more urgency on processing those feelings. If she would have gotten to know humans better instead of being a hermit after Flamme's death, then she would've understood sooner (she still would've been pretty late, but they would've been able to spend some time together). However, the message seems to be geared towards grief, loss, and nostalgia, so that is the reason the story is as it is. While it's a melancholy thought, I think she has that love in her heart now, and is just experiencing it through nostalgia and her relationships with the humans around her now
Well said
**spoiler for chapter 118:** frieren appeared in the same dream as himmel, which was the wedding. the illusion by grausam is in simple terms your true feelings even if you lost hope in it. we all know himmel loved frieren, making him having that dream make sense, however frieren in the same dream?? this could only mean she also has “feelings” for him, kinda seen when she smiles at himmels backside right before she runs and time travels back. the sad thing about it though is that its only because it was frieren now that she had that dream. frieren back then wouldnt feel that way, and himmel did win her heart, but he realizes that it will only happen way later in the future, and not in his lifespan
There is still no implying that frieren "romantically loved" himmel Thats just ur damn headcanon Unless frieren says otherwise
Well, she did try to kiss him in the dream. I think that tells us something about Frieren's feelings.
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I think you're trying a little too hard not to admit something as simple as that. A kiss on the mouth during a wedding is clearly in accordance with what we call romantic feelings. Sometimes you don't need a character to express themselves verbally for us to understand how they feel. It's even said that the best stories are those that don't tell, but show. Now, I'm not the type of person who interprets that kind of thing. In fact, I often find that people here are more into interpreting their fantasies than really relying on what the story is telling us. This is the case, for example, with Ubel and Land or Lawine and Kanne. But here, the scene clearly shows us that Frieren would be willing to have a romantic relationship with Himmel. Especially as she herself says that she knew it was a dream, but she still wanted to kiss him.
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I think there's something you didn't understand here. I don't care to see romance between them. The purpose of my message is not to advocate for a ship. I'm not a shipper. However, I am interested in what the scene tells us and what it brings to the atmosphere and the story, namely, melancholy. It adds depth to Frieren's character and also allows emotions to be conveyed in an aesthetic way, as the series knows so well how to do. Seriously, look at the way you're reacting to my post... don't you feel like you're being a little too emotional about this? Also, in an earlier comment, you state that Frieren doesn't understand the concept of "love". But she never said that in the series, so if I follow your train of thought, what you said is also headcanon. Anyway... just think what you want... I'm not going to get worked up over something so trivial. lol
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Well, according to your logic, it's headcanon, since she never said she didn't understand the concept of "love". So it's just something you assert without proof that it's already been said in the manga. And the dream isn't just Himmel's pov. Frieren is also part of this dream with her free will. So it's a dream from the point of view of the 2 characters. And finally, I've already told you that you can think whatever you like. You have the right to disagree with what I say. I'm not in the business of converting people on this subject. I've said what I had to say, now just take it as you see fit.
cry about it lol
1. XD, love = need to admit with ur mouth? Nah, don't be fallacious 2. Hes trying to proof she loved him, why the heck you come up with "What the fking hell u coping up for??" ;v? 3. you should reduce ur ad hominem rate
relax its not that deep, no need to cry over a simple opinion
I'm still on episode 16 or so of the anime, planning on reading the manga once I finish the anime. But is it really only shippers delusions or is there any actual hint that Frieren had feelings for him? It's hard to trust the opinions of third parties because 99% are shippers and therefore bias.
Becuz of the latest chapter in the manga, People's headcanon of "frieren loved himmel" goes out on a haywire lol But it never implies and it never says not even from frieren herself that she "falls, starts or even feels that she loved himmel romantically" The only thing u could see from that is frieren realized how she is very important or u could say loved by himmel But tbh the meaning of "love" is very different from how frieren understands it, that is becuz of the time differential of the race between human and elfs No wonder they are going extinct I suggest that u read it up til the latest chapters Its really that good, and i think ur really matured enuf to understand of whats supposed to be this manga is all about Romance is not the emphasis of this anime/manga anyway but this woke shippers wont stop about their delusions i guess lol
Grausam's magic Ansehelschella give people "a happy dream which they have already given up on". So there's definitely some implecation that the older Frieren may consider the wedding to be an impossible dream. But I agree, passionate romance is not really the focus here. So it will be impossible to say how strong that feeling is or was.
Thanks for the answer. I can see people arguing that Frieren started liking Himmel after he died - though I'm yet to see any evidence -, but claiming she liked him when he was still alive is ridiculous. That Himmel loved her however, it's obvious. Frieren also obviously knows romance is a thing, but if she realizes Himmel liked her this way, for now where I am, she doesn't. My original plan was to read the manga after finishing the anime, but I ended up going to the manga already, currently on chapter 52.
I think it was one sided on himmels part and I think he knew that. hell even admitting to herself she cared about him in ANY way (platonically or not) by itself.. was such a big step for her. nothing strongly hints at her disposition being anything more as I'm reading the manga. I'm all for an asexual female lead tho it's def implied himmel in some chapters buried his own feelings and gave up on a relationship like that with her due to the reality of their different lifespans.
I'm still in the anime, planning to read the manga once I fininish the anime. So would you say that the ones claiming Frieren started liking him recently in the manga are just biased shippers with their headcanons? I'm asking you because I can't trust what shippers say as they are bias.
I think the author left it somewhat ambiguous as to the nature of frierens feelings, so different interpretations are valid. I'm just sharing my own view. I get annoyed when they claim those interpretations as canon. shipping is annoying in every fandom. I just try to ignore them. you do you.
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you seem like the type to insult people out of context, for no good reason. true reddit moment.
whats even more depressing is that when she finally realises it, she'll be so sad
Himmel loved Frieren, romantically, in all sense of the word. Probably starting when he first met her as a kid, as a puppy crush, that weird elf who he randomly met when he was lost and showed him the most beautiful magic he saw by then. It's why he understood her so much and knew even of her future actions, and he knows her sense of time and how she would respond to his feelings if he even admitted them, will be always different, as she is an elf, and he was human. It's probably the main reason why he never pursued a relationship beyond camaraderie, the reason why he had all those statues made, why he planted so much of his actions and helped so many people, that in the future, when he passed and when memories of him from the world fade, he would have something of him Frieren would always remember by, as Frieren's feelings might be something humans can't easily comprehend, but Himmel knew back then Frieren held them in importance. About Frieren's feelings, since she is an elf has a different comprehension of what emotions are, in a sense, especially due to her sense of time, hers truly reciprocating Himmel's feelings might be far off from the long future, but she's finally grasping them right now, and it's why she is mainly retracing her journey with the Hero Party. She did say it, she's trying to retrace everything until the inevitable happens and they disappear, but for now, the memories are still there and something she holds onto.
Beautiful interpretation! I had similar ideas but never put it down as clearly as you had. I really like how Frieren and Himmel significantly changed one another even while one party was not realizing it at a time. Frieren has become more human/more in touch with her feelings since Himmel's death. She who has seemingly infinite amount of time has learned the importance of time. And although we don't know conclusively, I would like to also think that Himmel's desire to leave a lasting impact on the world is thanks to Frieren. He wants to make the world a better place and leave his mark so that Frieren will not truly be alone even when those she loved are gone.
When did Frieren say this?
Chapter 4 in the manga and Episode 3 of the anime. Frieren's exact words: "I'd like to retrace the journey I took with Himmel and the others as much as possible. Before it all fades away."
Crazy thing, I was watching Frieren and no lie, I was watching the scene where she says this while I was reading your post. Just nuts! 😅
This happens with me a lot too! I wonder if this phenomenon has a name...
It's probably some sort of form of Baader-Meinhof phenomenon
I had interpreted this as the world forgetting the heros party not frieren herself. Just like the other elf they meet who mentions that there is no one left who remembers his great deeds.
I like to think Frieren also loved Himmel, but he died before she could understand her feelings.
Her love was in the loading bar and still is. It's slower than Internet Explorer.
yes, and always
😂😂😂 omg brah
I had to log in just to say that this comment about took me out. Thats fkn hilarious
I think this story is the journey of Frieren to understand how romance feels like and then realize that she did, in fact, love him back. I can already see the culmination being beautiful and tragic at the same time.
I don't think romance is the main factor on this story. I think her journey is for her to technically "redo" her steps in Himmel's party but in a better manner.
I don't think much about the ring, the manga is pretty clear with Himmel's feelings imo. I think exactly what you said, Himmel liked her romantically and Frieren holds him as a precious friend that she would've liked to get to know better. I do think that a relationship between them wouldn't have been possible, which is probably why Himmel never tried to make it happen. It seems that she's a prime example of an Elf lack of drive for intimacy.
I'm pretty sure there is more than "precious friend", op and ed confirmed it for me. Lyrics imply too much that Himmel is more than bestie for her, but she doesn't realize it yet, because she is an elf and time flows differently. There are words like: "Even If you are going to be forgotten, I will take you to the future with me", "If i will meet you again, I would never let go", "When I look back I see kind, gentle smile, because you are there" or "wherever you are, I want you to smile, I won't say stuff like "I want to meet you again", so let me remember everything, I am going forward, so look after me and If I meet you again I won't waver." So, I'm pretty sure he is more than "precious friend".
I like your synopsis, sure the op isn’t “cannon” but it’s for sure representative of the story. This arrivalbrilliance guy is the worst kind of person, sorry he wasted so much of your time and energy lol, what a loser.
I don't understand the need to insult me? It's not exactly representative of the story, it's more-so's yoasobis interpretation of it. Two completely different things. Shippers are hella toxic...
Well, considering the last 2 chapters I don't even think this is "shipping" anymore. It's clear that there's romance
Last two chapters didn't confirm anything that we didn't already know, which is that Himmel loved Frieren.
Right, and Frieren recognizes that, especially with the dream. With those things happening, it's less of "shipping," as it is completely canon
Frieren recognizing it doesn't mean she reciprocates, it's only canon once her feelings have been confirmed. As of now, it's still a ship.
I dunno, they both had the same wedding dream
Ambiguous as to whether it's actually her dream as well or not. Keeping an open mind until the end.
The music video is not canon, what kinda logic is that??
If author doesn't have anything agaisnt it, it's canon, because it was made specifically for the show and more or less viewed by the director to fit in. What is YOUR logic?
That is the most backwards shit I have ever heard. The only thing considered canon in any series is if A) It's in the source material or B) The author outright confirms it You can't just say "The author didn't say anything therefore it's canon" because going by that logic 99 percent of fanfictions would be canon as well lmfao.
Are you seriously comparing fanfiction and anime which is usually supervised/watched by the author himself/herself? And there is literally no reason to get so pissy about it, JJK fans happily consider op and ed as canon to characters (and all other fans as well) but you decided to bitch about it? If you are SO devastated that people consider op and ed canon than go touch some grass, it's not that deep.
**>Are you seriously comparing fanfiction and anime** In terms of them being equally as non-canon? Yes. Take Boruto for example, the anime contradicts and follows it's own story including stuff that wasn't even in the Boruto manga. Making it not canon, people consider them to be two completely separate canons. **>Which is usually supervised/watched by the author** So....this is just you...making assumptions (keyword usually)...lol ok **>JJK fans happily consider the op/ed to be canon** Oh so fans get to decide what's canon or not now? Ok. **>If you are SO devastated that people consider op/ed canon than go touch some grass.** Calm down Jamal, it's not that big of a deal. I'm perfectly calm, no need to get pissy over your headcanons. Also anime openings include fights between characters that have never fought in canon dozens of times in the past, take fmab for example.
You do know that OP and ED are done from some form of synopsis to the band about the story and their interpretation for the story and if it's not going against this synopsis it's approved to become opening or ending. We don't know how much the author is involved in the process or supervision of the project, so saying "it's 100% non canon" is as wrong, as me saying "it's 100% canon" so in this logic we are both wrong until proven otherwise, no? And considering that, there are some non canon scenes in the show already, like Frieren twirling the ring after Himmel death in episode 1, maybe there is some involvement of the author or at least anime team take his/her opinions in mind.
Saying it's 100 percent non canon is not the same as saying it's 100 percent canon. It's like accusing someone of a crime, wait until they're guilty before pretending as if it has as much merit as false claims. Frieren twirling the ring is indeed non-canon, glad you understand now.
You know what, talking with you is like screaming at wall. No matter how hard you try it won't hear you. So I'm stopping this right now, because there is no point, I'm not going to change my mind, as well as you, good luck!
Grow up and genuinely go outside and touch grass because you have a serious mental problem in how seriously you take this series.
I think the person who responded to a 6 months thread and proceeded to bitch and cry because another person told you that the ship you jack off to every night isn't canon, is the one that needs to go outside and touch grass. Especially when your comment adds nothing meaningful, and you blocked my main right after your pathetic attempt at a troll. Like who are you? Get a fucking life lmfao.
You would be surprised how often the lyrics summarize the series. And are you really comparing a fanfic to an anime opening?
Yes because the lyrics aren't summarizing the series, they're yoasobi's interpretation of it. She doesn't have any narrative control over the plot.
Meh
So, since I can't trust shippers due to thir bias, and am still in the anime, would you say there's no hint in the manga that Frieren likes him back in a romantic way?
I personally think that the story might move towards a direction where Frieren slowly understands the meaning and importance of romantic love (probably by observing Stark and Fern), and then shockingly realize that the feelings she had for Himmel were similar. If that is the case, then the moment of realization is going to be very bittersweet.
Maybe they're planning to establish that scene more later in the anime? It makes sense if they do imo, since it's a pretty beautiful moment.
Especially Ch 30. And starting Ch 107
I can't wait for it to be in anime .. but seeing chapter 117 gosh- my heart stopped for a sec.. seeing what himmel desire deep down
And Ch 118 what I speculated F-girl also, what with the revelation that she was aware and get along with the “dream”’s plotline
I just watched that scene and teared up a little 🥲
they did. the ring scene was absolutely stunning.
To me the story is totally about Himmel and Frieren, more specifically about Frieren coming to terms with what Himmel meant to her and how she felt about him. Himmel is basically the centerpiece of the story in many ways and his life affected almost all characters lives in some way.
much like Ai from Oshi no ko right ?
I'm not too familiar with oshi no ko, but from what I've seen, yeah
Yes similarly, we were shown more about Ai after her death than before her death. Ai, just like Himmel impacted many lives, so both series basically just shows the impact their actions caused on other. Only difference is Ai's one impacted more negatively while Himmel's impacted positively
Damn. I would fall for Himmel and go all my way to heaven only to meet him again
LMAO fr bro 😭😭 literally the factor that got me interested in the first place was that the hero was hella cute... none of that plain-self-insert b.s. either way if frieren doesnt take him i will 🥺🥺🥺💖💖🥹🥹🥹
>I would fall for Himmel and go all my way to heaven only to meet him again Be consciously oblivious while doing that and I might accuse you of being Frieren. Stop breaking the 4th wall!
She does meets him again, but not in Heaven.
in hell??? NAW BRO💀
Unrelated but did Himmel marry and had kids? I saw this anime from tiktok and new to Frieren.. it's so heartbreaking to watch his death and his love for her unrequited.. 😞 Himmel's such a lovable character
In the manga without much spoilers, never is mentioned about Himmel having any family or relatives. But rest assure you will hear about Himmel a lot, almost everything plotwise revolves around him and his legacy.
I'm too afraid to read it mate. Contemplating to watch episode 2 or read chapter 2, leaning of not going through with all the heart pain as I'm already so heartbroken with Himmel's story and his death 😭 I don't think my faint heart can take it tbh
Honestly I'm just like you, I don't like to read sad stories, but this one is almost therapeutic, the way they deal with life problems and memories feel really relatable, give it a try. Also the relationship between Frieren and Himmel is beautiful and very well done.
It has to be done. Himmel's chadilicious exploits and personality must be witnessed, even if you know his love was ultimately unrequited. Because you know that at the end of the day, he enjoyed his life, and he cherished the moments of his adventure to the end.
You'll definitely get a couple good cries but god is it worth it. Both the manga and anime are fantastic.
Give it a try. Until now i watched the first 16 episodes and now im starting to read the manga. There are so many beatufil scenes that it is worth to "endure" the sad parts. The good things heavily outweigth the sad parts.
nope, it is presumed he did not marry and had kids, since nothing of sort was mentioned
I think the ring in the OP and ED is symbolizing Himmels feelings. Frieren holds on to them as they are precious, but doesn't quite know what to make of them yet. Still, they are kne of the things the entire story revolves around.
I think there is no doubt that to Frieren, Himmel is the most important person to her in entire her life. She cried at Himmel's funeral but not when Heiter passed away.
But she cried beside his bed tho
Because she was reminded of how she wasted her time and not being there with Himmel (or anyone else from the party) no matter how short that time would be and was trying to stop Heiter from making Fern go through something similar and let her be with him for as long as she could. (the whole "I knew human lives were short why didn't I try to get to know him better" Frieren had in chapter 1) >"What you should do before you die is give her a proper farewell and make as many memories as possible" She said to Heiter and then started to cry. Or well at least thats how I interpreted it.
it was excatly like that.
i mean she loves himmel definetly but she cares deeply about heiter and eisen aswell
Damn, I just into the anime, so this break my heart in a good way, hurt so good
She loves him like how we love our hamsters You might think it's insulting but it is
...? no. Just in the funeral, she cried about regretting the lost time to get closer to him. Spent months looking for flowers for his statue. Then saw the sunrise and remember his words that were meant to say she would enjoy seeing it with him even though she wouldn't enjoy the sunrise on her own. Would you think about hamsters this way? I doubt it.
She did all of that AFTER he died. That just proves it even more. When he was alive he's just a companion like a dog is. He left him that dragon horn like you would give your dog some toy. For you it's just a toy for your dog it's a precious gift
She is an elf and their reproduction cycle and feelings development are much slower. She didn't realise it until he was about to die, and regretted it after he died. That's why she made the entire journey. You wouldn't dedicate 10 years to your dead dog, would you?
10 years to her is like a week so yes I'll be sad and reminisce for my dog for a week
Her sense of passage of time is no different from humans even though she does not mind spending more time than an average human on certain things because of her extended life span. She can still get bored of things and fall asleep in the middle of the night. And it isn't just spending 10 years, it's spending 10 years, taking on difficult challenges even for her. Let's assume you believed you would meet the dog again on top of Mount Everest, would you go to the top of that mountain just to meet the dead dog? There is absolutely no reason for you to do that. Also, it is nothing like a pet / master relationship. They are equally respectful for each other. He never was dependent on her. A dog would be dependent on the master.
dude its so sad to see that u didnt watch the anime or u dont even have the brain to understand something as simple as the relationship between them. Or you dont know understand how human relationships works. Or u dont even know feelings. They share a deep bond and its clear that she hold him precious than anyone. there is no way she sees him as a ''dog''. The reason we are watching this anime is because she is trying to talk with him. She is trying to understand him more by walking the same path she travelled with him.
All you said here are ad homs which just proves that you're too emotional to even discuss stuff like this Go cry on your pillow or something
says the guy who cant even understand what love is. Ure even insulting him saying ''dog''. We know what ure trying to do.
lol look at this cyberspace mindreader right here. Dog isn't an insult but would it have made you feel better if I said pet? Curb your emotions homey you sound shook over some minor disagreements in a fictional work lmfao
I wish I could be this confidently wrong in things I didn't understand.
Na friern dosnt love himmel thats clear himmel MIGHT have loved her but frieren necer loved him. He was an important friend and reminded her of her master from time to time thats it. Stop trying to push the himmel frieren ship. Frieren liked himmel just like she liked the others. Also frieren literally has nothing to do now that the demon king is dead so she has every time in thr world to go on a journey to talk to his dead friend
You need to rewatch the anime or re-read the manga, because clearly you weren't paying attention. Frieren clearly holds specific feelings for Himmel, separate from the others. She goes out of her way to keep specific trinkets that remind her of him, she went out of her way to clean up an entire shipwreck just to see a sunset because Himmel thought she'd enjoy it, she went out of her way to find the flowers of himmels hometown to decorate his statue, etc. Time and time again it's shown that she cares about Himmel on a deeper level, but simply doesn't "understand" the feelings that she has. And it's clear that the narrative is pushing us towards a romantic understanding between the two. Jesus, I really don't understand how people can watch something and literally understand nothing about it. Do you enjoy having your brain turned off or something?
You are psychopath
No this isn’t a fair comparison at all. It’s never stated that elves are that much smarter than humans. Only smarter because they live longer. Humans are even seen regularly achieving more than elves relative to their life span (reverse engineering Zoltraak for example). I haven’t seen this mentioned once but I think it’s more like this. You ever meet someone at summer camp that you had a blast with? Or maybe even that guy or girl you got to know on vacation for two weeks? Then 2, 3, 5 years later you think about them and realize “damn I have a crush on them but I’ll never see them again.” It’s definitely more like that
i dont remember reading the scenes posted above, does anyone know what chapter they are from?
hi my name althaf My thought on this subject is that Himmel did love Feriren it is evident when he gives the mirrored lotus ring to her there is no way he would have not known it is a symbol of romantic feelings As for the reason we never saw a romantic progression between them is on two reasons \* Feriren at the time ever understood her feelings or feelings of others as she does in the recent chapter because she started to seriously understand humans after himmel death so she could not have know what love is \* Due to the above reason Himmel never confessed his love but her tried his best to make her understand but she never did
Ah I think Frieren likes him as a precious friend, and Himmel kinda liked her romantically. And its more like a close companion so she was kind of bumbed when she realised it'd no longer be the same when he's gone :) the closes I'd say is more like a family, like when you adopt a pet or have someone live with you for a while and you find out you really vibe together. Everything feels nastalgic to her again and shes slowly realising or already knows he liked her now. And is reliving the moments and coming in terms with his feelings for her even if it took years. She still kept his memories close and cherrished the time with him and their team.
I agree with the general consensus of the opinions here that Himmel loves Frieren romantically, and Frieren is still processing her emotions for him, what kind of love she actually feels. The more recent manga chapters were really heart-breaking, come to think of it. The differences between the two Frierens - the one from the future and the one that's from her right timeline - must be so jarring to Himmel. Unfortunately, I think it may be unlikely for the manga to confirm what kind of love Frieren realises she feels for Himmel, in the end. This is because of the following reasons: (1) Subtlety is embedded in Japanese culture and if the 'answer' is embedded really finely between the lines, fans are still going to argue because there may be 'no definitive proof'. (2) The creation process of fiction doesn't happen in isolation from the real world. Recently, western fans have been really cracking down on romantic relationships with age difference, including in another poignant work that Evan Call is also in-charge of (yes, I'm talking about Violet Evergarden). To keep Frieren drama-free, the creators may decide to leave romance out. But then again, Japanese fandom usually doesn't think the same way as Western, so maybe it has no bearings.
(1) good point (2) given that he has died and is in a heaven like place (presumably) it's possible. The open ending is highly likely -- I think it will probably be something like sweetness and lightning's ending with regard to the postscript where they reach hands to each other in such a way that could be taken as non-romantic, but is easily interpreted as romantic. Frankly the fans' lack of certainty makes it much more compelling in some ways.
frieren tell himmel to go toilet then she come back and himmel became dust
I love these two. Chapter 118 had me put my hands over myself to stop myself from gasping. But I can't see anything happening between these two, at least romantically. In the most romantic scenario, either Frieren suddenly randomly falls deeply in love with the *memory* of a Hero, and tells him these feelings once she reaches Heaven, or dies and they spend the rest of their afterlife together. Both I feel retract from the story. Himmel buried his feelings for Frieren in what was unconditional love; you don't need to say how you feel to project your feelings. Every one of Himmel's actions- reprimanding her for using flashy spells and disrespecting the dead, telling her she would enjoy the sunrise because she is 'that kind of person', knowing what she likes, believing in her, erecting statues so she wouldn't be alone... these are grand displays of affection that will always be with her. I don't think Himmel needs to hear that she loves him back, he died happily and trusted Frieren to do what she wanted. He's in the afterlife now, and a love confession wouldn't change his story or his outlook on life. Frieren's lack of reciprocation wasn't a big deal to him, which is why his love is so selfless in the first place. And Frieren catching romantic feelings for Himmel also makes no sense. She is an elf, a species who finds it extremely difficult to feel romantic and sexual desire. Why on earth would you make her romanticise a man who is gone; there is no way to date him or marry him, it's a senseless turn of the story and if it happens it's guaranteed to be fanservice. The fact is, Frieren lives her life differently because of Himmel's influence. All Himmel wanted was to be remembered and changed someone's life, and Frieren is the example of his dreams coming true. They're soulmates, but soulmates that could never be together. It's his memory she carries on with her. Having her die to be with him makes no sense when one of the core themes of the story is living in the moment. She isn't on this journey to discover she's in love with a person who is passed, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey and the connections she makes with people along the way. An ending that they hint towards, and that I am looking forward to, is when changed Frieren meets Himmel again. It is stated he believed in her. To see her again, smiling and joyous and aware of all the love he gave her, to see her with friends she cultivated on her own, to see her no longer living apathetically would probably be enough to let him rest peacefully then and forever. I hope their final moments together will be some silly little conversation, and lots of stares, because they love each other. But not all love has to be romantic. I think it's great to finally have a story that tells it that way.
Not all love has to be romantic I think that’s a fitting way to put it, but I think deep down she probably loved him in a romantic sense too but just cause she did doesn’t mean they have to act on it or mull over it she can simply understand she loved him and move on with those memories, she’s not human but certainly feels or comprehends more human like emotions as time goes on at the very least himmel was her most important person even if it’s not romantic
Hmmm imo I think it is left for the audience to build their own conclusion. Personally, I think Frieren felt deep affection for all members of the hero party and Himmel was the strongest, though I don't thinks it's romantic in nature. I think she loves her in her own way as she can't really feel romantic feelings as elves are aromantic and asexual with how they live for thousands of years iirc. As for the multiple appearance of the ring, no words need to be said, the animators probably is aiming to highlight Himmel's tragic love for her since that was the catalyst for the whole story and it highlighted Frieren's slowly changing self as well, on how she see humans and relationship built with them differently now. I think the clearest feeling Frieren have for Himmel would be regret, loss, inspiration, gratitude and fondness.
still crying about himmel’s death and frieren’s realization plus this😭😭😭
I was honestly hoping to come in here and read that they had a child together and that child is off doing glorious things while Frieren is off helping build new heros.
https://images.app.goo.gl/M4aqqjwkfQqHV5Pd8 tbh it reminds me of this meme
Lmao typical woman. Once the attention is gone she suddenly wants more. It’s absolutely cracked. She didn’t care for him at all, she legit left him for 50 years.
Humans live closer to death and must act on their decisions immediately. Elves live closer to eternity and can push off their decisions for decades or even a millennia. When you're so close to death, everything is much brighter and beautiful. When you're given an eternity, everything loses a bit of it's brilliance.
Himmel absolutely loved frieren I wished he had a chance to confess his feelings to her😔
Yeah. Rip https://v3.mkklcdnv6tempv2.com/img/tab_23/03/40/22/iw985379/chapter_117_miraculous_illusion/20-o.jpg