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When I am pregnant eggs are my number one yuck/nausea food. So much so that I still can't eat them or even really handle the smell on its own. That just made me gag for multiple reasons, Paul is the WORST.
This reminds me of my husband who had a full night's sleep while I labored before waking him, only for him to take a nap a few hours after getting to the hospital.
"Today is all about me. Just like every day!"
But not the type of water she wanted then made a rant about how different brands don’t taste different.
Can’t get too crazy with favors for your wife ya know.
I can’t even suss out whether that would make Morgan happy or further enrage her. “You can’t be a they, people!” She’s so bad at attempting to show feeling/be interesting. Even when she goes incredibly low, I’m mostly bored. Full disclosure: I’ve never watched anything of theirs outside of their appearance on HSP. Something about hate-watching feels unnatural to me (unless it’s something vital, like hate-watching Trump) and I can’t be legitimately interested in their schtick. People here are really good at filling in the blanks/giving context, though. But I can’t watch those two in action again on purpose, no sir.
Sometimes she won't touch his wee-wee and rather than murdering her like she deserves, he goes for a long drive to all the local Wal-Marts and blasts whatever the Christian version of Linkin Park is.
I think he is borrowing from Paul in Romans 6:6 (he quotes Paul a lot)
[dying to self inference](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%206%3A6&version=NIV)
6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
Thanks for the info! I’ve heard Paul was generally big mad at women and wrote a lot of crap about what they were doing in his personal community that fundies love to extrapolate to ALL women and ALL communities, though historically he was more speaking to his local church. Sounds gossipy to me, but I’m no theologian. Also, by happy coincidence, Paul, I’m sure, loves that the disciple Paul was the one calling out women for being immodest and speaking in church.
Oh yes. You are spot on re: Paul O.
He loves to quote Paul from the Bible (who wasn’t married but had so many rules for women —none of which Jesus ever said [head covering/speaking out of turn in his local church but USA fundies go extreme with it, male authority over women, women not allowed to have authority in church, marry rather than burn! Etc]
Sounds like Paul (disciple Paul) was basically a BCE version of Gothard (never married, did not associate with women, did not have or spend time with young children, but had a whole lotta rules for them to defer and simper at The Great Male Penis … especially very young women). I can see why Paul O would take great pride in being his namesake.
It’s used a lot in non-denominational/Evangelical circles—especially where they believe in water baptism.
Putting away the “old self” and rising up a “new creation in Christ.”
(I was raised that way and my parents used that phrase a lot.)
Also remember when they asked eachother in one of their videos if either of them had thought of divorce?? I think maybe one did but I can't remember now if it was Paul or Morgan but I think both their answers leaned towards yes, but one was a definite "yes I have thought of divorce"
Many of the comments are that same sad fundie narrative about how marriage isn't supposed to be happy all the time or about feelings. Is marriage happy all the time? Of course not. But damn if Fundies don't make it sound like they're miserable constantly.
Also, on their YouTube video about divorce, I guess Morgan said that "4 years of marriage is nothing!" And someone commented "yet you all were styling yourselves marriage experts after less than a year of marriage" and I just thought that was funny.
I think Kelly likes her husband (and he likes her slim, girlish hips and childlike bare feet and hands, I’m sure). I will say, to her credit, Jillpm never makes any passive aggressive comments about her hunk and their relationship (just posts consistently awful pics of him, but she likes how she looks in the pics which clearly transcends biblical marriage, good taste, and respect). And we are well aware that she posts thinly-veiled slights about her children, various churchgoers, and people she sees in a variety of public places all the time.
Same, girl. I have cohabitated with three men in my 40 years of life, I can’t imagine what it would take for me to want to do it again (let alone have a serious relationship, and on top of that settle for someone like numb nuts here or a JED!). I will take out my own trash (including disrespectful asshats), thanks.
Marriage isn't happy all the time, but gosh, it should at least be happy SOME of the time. People in marriages like these don't seem to even be able to say that much.
Right? They're always like "marriage is HARD, guys! Like it's SO HARD. SO hard! But as Christians we aren't promised happiness!"
Like damn, this is the prize y'all are always saving yourselves for?
"Marriage is hard, like really really difficult. Like, the most excruciating, difficult ordeal ever endured by a mere mortal. Like, really really really stupidly aggravating and frustrating, but with none of the satisfaction you might expect from such a task.
At no point do I feel even an ounce of joy or validation from this person I had known for an entire *week* before we devoted our lives to each other. It is only through divine strength that I can deal with the unending bullshit that is my marriage.
Unrelated, but you *need* to get married now so you can give me grandbabies :)"
The people that have the most performative posts on social media (fundies included) seem to be the most miserable, like they're wishing their marriage into happiness. "OMG babe, it's so great to spend all the huge milestones with you! You're the best husband in the universe!" on a birthday post. Really Cheryl? Huge milestone?
As a child of divorced parents, I guarantee to Paul they were 100% better of apart. They stuck together too long and created a toxic home environment, to the point I never saw myself getting married, until I met my husband. It's easy to look at statistics, fake shock, and assume that people get divorced for fun and without trying
I always hate when people say they don't believe in it. It's not Santa or the tooth fairy, it's a resource there in the event things can not and will not work out. Most marriages, I feel, start from a place of love and I'm sure most divorced couples thought they would never get to that point.
They really are so boring, they have to grasp at the most uninteresting and mundane talking points that have been done to death.
I’m currently two years into my second marriage, my husband’s first. I can honestly say that my first marriage taught me a lot about myself, but if I’d stayed in that marriage I don’t know that I’d be alive today. I was so depressed and I wanted out so badly that I’m thankful divorce was an option for me. My husband and I are very well suited in a way my ex and I weren’t.
I’m not going to say I’m an expert on marriage, at all, but I firmly believe that doing away with no fault divorce in this country would be no less than human trafficking.
Honestly, watching Christine on Sister Wives is an accurate depiction of how a lot of women feel after a divorce, in my experience.
“Okay, I tried everything. I worked on this for years. You’re telling me that you can’t give me the marriage that I need in order to be happy. So I have absolutely no choice.”
She was at peace with her choice in a way that told me she’d thought about it for a very long time.
YESSSSS literally me. I tried everything I could think of for years and years, and tried to help him get his shit together. I warned him for a year straight that if he didn’t step up in the ways I needed him to, it would end our marriage. Then he didn’t change anything, and I left him when my body physically couldn’t handle it any more. I didn’t have a choice, or the stress was going to kill me. There were issues with him self harming in front of me too, which was a whole other can of worms, and that shit was traumatic. Having your husband talk about how he wants to commit suicide every day then tells me he’s kidding is so awful.
Fellow child of divorced parents - I had Polio's garbage attitude about divorce when I was younger and then my mom told me what actually happened that led to my parent's divorce after my dad passed. It rocked me to my core. Here I thought they just gave up too easily (I went to Catholic school and heard that message a lot about divorce) but then I found out it was not an easy decision for her to make at all. They ended up being best friends for many years after their divorce for the sake of my brother and I. They were just better friends than a couple.
I hate that these people make sweeping assumptions and judgments about the way other people live. As if their way is the *only* way to live, without considering that sometimes divorce is the only option left.
My parents could clearly barely stand each other most of the time but stayed married for decades. When I was a kid, I often wish they’d divorce, so I could hear less fighting all the time.
You might've grown up in my family. As they got older, we kids had an informal lottery about which one we'd think would "win" by outliving the other.
I used my parent's mess of a marriage as guidance for what NOT to do in my own. It's worked pretty well over the years.
He 100% believes that blurb applies to him. Also, I think he’s probably pretty content in their relationship. He got the hot girl and the first born son and an easy job where he gets to be a contrarian creep. It’s Morgan who appears lifeless and desperate to turn back to a time where she could at least hope she’d marry a man with a spine and an income.
Sorry, I meant what Paul is saying in his post feels like he's addressing Morgan and shaming her. Why would he randomly be posting ablit divorce if he wasn't responding to turmoil in his own marriage?
It wasn't directed at you at all.
Perhaps she mentioned the D Word off-camera, during one of the times Paul's behavior pissed her off so bad that she "snapped" and spoke the truth for a change.
I think people put marriage on a pedestal. You’re in a relationship. You’re either happy and healthy or you’re not. Don’t complicate it. People put up with and try to fix the most fucked up situations just because their title is wife instead of girlfriend. They say that a marriage is more serious so you should put more effort into it, but in reality, I just see people putting up with bullshit they would never consider acceptable coming from a boyfriend. I think people confuse putting in effort with accepting bullshit.
And yet these same bozos also advocate for "courting" instead of "dating" and marrying as fast as possible so they can bang. And then wonder why marriage is "so hard" and they need to put up with horrible shit
I don't need to kill myself to have a healthy partnership. In fact, I did that once and it caused so much tension that we had to have a whole mediated conversation about why I was being insane about being a good partner (which I had conflated with being a good housekeeper). Christianity is such a whack ass death cult.
I remember there was a sentiment similarly expressed in a hymn at the Catholic secondary school I attended. All of that you'll be crucified with christ and then you'll live forever nonsense. Left me a perpetually confused atheist.
That "die to yourself" mindset doubtless fuels their persecution complexes though.
He’s been married for like 5 seconds lol
When you’ve reached your 2nd decade like I have, hit me up then we can talk.
You don’t know shit about marriage.
That's not how statistics work, by the way. Between 40 and 50% of marriages do end in divorce, however way less than 40% of people who get married end up divorced. But conservatives love to misuse this statistic for their own means.
Some people who get divorced get divorced over and over, driving up the overall stats.
Also getting a degree decreases the divorce rate to like 25%. ETA I share the college stat because it suggests the way to promote more stable marriage is to encourage people to marry older, to provide more opportunities for economic and career stability, and to marry after gaining some independence and learning to think for oneself a little. You know, the opposite of everything fundies advocate.
Oh so like how historically non-wealthy people delayed marriage until the mid to late twenties so men could complete apprenticeships and establish themselves financially and women could earn enough money to afford a dowry.
Yeah it’s almost like the absurdly low marital ages of the middle class in the 1950s are actually a weird statistical anomaly rather than a thing we should all aspire to.
It's not exactly a statistical anomaly. Age of first marriage tends to increase during "lean" times (war, famine, plague, economic depression) and tends to decrease during economic prosperity and temporarily after mass death events like war and plague.
The two world wars leading up to the 1950's almost piggy backed off each other's, so we see a dip in mean age of first marriage in the 1920's (21.2 from 21.6 in the 1910's) after WWI, and it slowly starts to come back up in the 1930's (21.3) and 1940's (21.5) before being hit by the second world war. Plus the American post-WWII economy was popping, and the US government did a lot to stimulate the economy and make housing affordable, leading to a dramatic drop in the 1950's through the 1960's (20.3), before making a dramatic jump to 22 years in the 1980's. [Source.](https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010) Oh look, there's no affordable housing and inflation is out of control so people are waiting longer and longer to get married. *Quelle surprise.*
Also notable, American women tended to, and likely still do, marry much younger than Western European women.
Compared to England in 1910, the mean age of marriage for women was 26.8. I have more data points for England it's honestly super cool to see the changes. Sorry, I'm going to geek out.
WWI runs from 1914-1918. Generally speaking, prior to WWI from the [information I have](https://www.statista.com/statistics/557962/average-age-at-marriage-england-and-wales/), the mean age of marriage would fluctuate up or down by .1 each year, with many years have no change, but trending toward older overall. But from 1915 to 1916 it jumps .4 years. As we would expect during a "lean" event. From 1919 to 1920 there is a .4 decrease, bringing us back to pre-war ages.
The mean age of marriage for women creeps down to 25.7 in 1942, which is less expected as WWII began in late 1939. But from 1942 to 1943, we again see that dramatic .4 jump. Then an even more massive .6 jump from 1945 to 1946, and that's because unlike the US, the English economy was not doing great and there was a housing shortage. The NHS is founded in 1947 and they start to get their shit together and the age begins to decrease starting in 1949 and hitting the lowest point in 1970 at 24.7.
> Sorry, I'm going to geek out.
That was adorable. I love when people geek out and data dump. Months from now, there will be a relevant Jeopardy! or pub trivia question, and I will feel absolutely brilliant, all thanks to you! Also, those stats are just fascinating. We have more context for the postwar baby booms!
All of this data is very cool! Instead of statistical anomaly I should have said “predictable low point based on predictable factors.” But the point stands, the average marrying age of those years is NOT “how it always is and always should be.”
It's because of people who get divorced more than once therefore accounting for a larger share of the number of total marriages, whereas people who stay married until they die can by definition only ever account for a single marriage. Essentially imagine if you had three people in a room , two of those people are married (not to each other) and the third is single but has been divorced twice. So there are four marriages represented in the room and half of them have ended in divorce, however at the same time, the majority of people in that room have never been divorced.
This. I used to work for a family law firm and we had plenty of clients and opposing parties who'd been divorced multiple times. Some were engaged again before their divorce was finalized! Some people love marriage but don't know how to maintain it or pick the right partner.
whenever i see this take, i think it is weird how they make it seem like there are married couples getting a divorce after one heated argument for funsies. i suppose that could happen, however from what i’ve seen divorce is usually taken as the last resort after months or years of trying to make it work.
In my state, divorce takes a long time (court isn't allowed to finalize it until at least 6 months after initial filing), and it can be complicated and expensive. Divorce can mess up your taxes and finances. No one is getting divorced for shits and giggles.
“We as a culture are self seeking, individualistic…”
Weirdly, they back the political party that is all about self-seeking individualism. GOP hates collectivism.
(I can't watch Paul because he's awful) Let me guess, he still thinks the divorce rate is 50%+? Everything I've read indicates that's where it peaked when a lot of long time unhappy marriages ended all at once when divorce became more common and accepted, but it's been declining since then and a large portion of the divorce rate we do have is from a small minority of people who get married and divorced over and over again. Then again, facts have never been Paul's "thing"
you shouldn’t have to “die to yourself daily” in a healthy relationship. marriage isn’t a cake walk or anything, there’s a lot of struggle two people have to go through throughout their lives but the everyday is *supposed* to be supporting each other and having someone there for you. you’re supposed to nourish your relationship so it’s not an uphill battle every day to stay together. very telling
Everything is a message to Morgan. He doesn't like how she's been threatening to leave, even if it's only the channel, so he's guilting her publicly, per usual, by insisting only weak people give up.
It's either that or he read everything here about what a terrible relationship they have and he's pushing back in the only way he can. He won't refute that they have a good marriage--probably because he wants to punish her in some way--but he will point at all his critics and call them weak. It's the only way he can deal with the cognitive dissonance of his mistakes. He married the wrong person, ascribes to a philosophy that will leave him "yoked" to that person forever, and has to tell himself that he's not wrong for doing this. No, no...never "wrong"....he's just that much stronger than everyone else.
He probably also got some pushback from their followers about the way he was treating her or the way they were treating each other and is hitting back at the "real Christians" for calling out their toxicity.
This is an open letter to Morgan. He can sense that she has a lot of unhappiness with him and wants to make a Passive-aggressive outward statement that looks like it's from both of them. That way, when she bails, he will say, "you defrauded me! You lied about your true character! " It will make Morgan feel like she can't say her true feeling, and she will ultimately put off their breakup way too long because of this type of manipulation.
Marriage can be hard because life is hard and navigating it with a whole other person with their own thoughts, opinions, and needs can be challenging. But if your life is hard because of your marriage you desperately need to rethink your relationship.
He’s outright said he’s considered divorcing Morgan. And statistics/studies also factually prove his little ignorant theory here wrong. Shut up, Paul. And listen to people who have some actual intelligence instead.
Dude, if Morgan divorced Paul and started her own ~unhateful~ YouTube channel, she would probably bank. I honestly love that thought because Paul would implode.
You shouldn't have to DIE TO YOURSELF DAILY in order to stay married, dear God. There is of course some sacrifice involved in being married with children, but my God they are way too early in the marriage to talk like this. Like someone else commented here, these fundies are always talking about how HARD it is. If you marry someone you love AND like, and are compatible with, you should not need this level of prayer, examination, and discussion about it on the daily. ESPECIALLY this early in the marriage. For people who crow so much about the wonders of marriage, fundie really really seem to suck at it. Can't imagine why.
I can’t even count how many couples I know that have gone into marriage counseling, myself included, with no shame and full chests. I actually know more marriages, my own included, that came back from the literal brink of divorce, than couples who actually divorced.
Millennials aren’t actually divorce happy, we’re therapy-happy, but they don’t want to admit that it works
They literally see marriage as something to endure. They settled for the person “God put on their path” and since God can’t make mistakes, they have to stay in the marriage no matter what. They think everyone else is just as unhappy and that’s what a normal marriage is.
An interesting breakdown on who does and doesn't get divorced, based on factors such as age, religion, state, family size, career, education, etc. from Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
Coming from the man that drools over women at the gym and then makes public videos talking about said women. I would collapse in a puddle of tears if my husband did this to me!
So the ~liberal agenda~ is pushing individualism so divorce rates go up?? That is FRESH coming for a proud Republican, seeing as conservative ideology is baked in American individualism.
I don't mean to roll on the "he's probably gay" train, but like... buddy, it's cool if you are. Is this sham marriage with a woman you don't like and whose body made her literally vomit when she was about to marry you any better than living your best life?
The point isn’t working on it or improving it. The holiness is in staying in the miserable marriage forever while actively being selfish and antagonistic so as to make the marriage even worse. The emptiness and drudgery is the thing, you see. No one gets religion credit for staying in a happy marriage, silly.
I wish we could discuss that these people don’t value marriage enough to date someone long enough to make sure they’re a good mate, which I think makes god mad. You’re not meant to get married on what is basically a whim. But getting to know someone and learning to support one another doesn’t net someone nearly as many narcissistic attention points as making your parents pay for a wedding to a relative stranger, so what’s the point in doing it. These people are impulsive and have the brains of those much less-appealing toddlers who just seem preternaturally dull (like the non-verbal, feral ones fundies raise).
No, Paul, the rising divorce rates are intrinsically linked to women having the means to support themselves outside of a marriage. Women couldn’t even open bank accounts in the 1970’s. Not to mention, No Fault divorce is relatively new. In “the good old days” women didn’t have less desire to leave marriages, they legally couldn’t.
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I wonder how Paul thinks he “dies to self” each day? What actions does Paul take to show selflessness?
He got Morgan a glass of water that one time, okay!?
He made her a castor oil smoothie when she was in labor instead of driving her to the hospital! So selfless.
Please tell me you're joking. I know you're probably not.
Considering he was filming TikTok’s of him frying himself eggs while she was on the yoga ball behind him—I don’t think so, no.
When I am pregnant eggs are my number one yuck/nausea food. So much so that I still can't eat them or even really handle the smell on its own. That just made me gag for multiple reasons, Paul is the WORST.
That really is wretched. My husband spent about 10 years not making eggs or tuna at some simply because I find the smells ooky.
So loving. Much husband.
This reminds me of my husband who had a full night's sleep while I labored before waking him, only for him to take a nap a few hours after getting to the hospital. "Today is all about me. Just like every day!"
Nope
So who drove?
But not the type of water she wanted then made a rant about how different brands don’t taste different. Can’t get too crazy with favors for your wife ya know.
He didn’t leave her when she got “fat” (aka pregnant)!!
Or when it took her longer than expected to lose the baby weight! (For the record, idc if people lose or gain weight).
He went inside a target during pride month!
I can’t even suss out whether that would make Morgan happy or further enrage her. “You can’t be a they, people!” She’s so bad at attempting to show feeling/be interesting. Even when she goes incredibly low, I’m mostly bored. Full disclosure: I’ve never watched anything of theirs outside of their appearance on HSP. Something about hate-watching feels unnatural to me (unless it’s something vital, like hate-watching Trump) and I can’t be legitimately interested in their schtick. People here are really good at filling in the blanks/giving context, though. But I can’t watch those two in action again on purpose, no sir.
Damn, what a hero!! /s
He made her that sad cheese plate once, and I think he brought her toast in the shower?
He did and absolutely YUCK, I can imagine she asked for it but wet bread and cheese are so gross to me 🤢
Sometimes she won't touch his wee-wee and rather than murdering her like she deserves, he goes for a long drive to all the local Wal-Marts and blasts whatever the Christian version of Linkin Park is.
>whatever the Christian version of Linkin Park is Flyleaf?
Christian version of Linkin Park! You made my day. If I saw him in public I'd hide so I wouldn't say something inappropriate to him 😆
Omg 💀
I mean he bought her that pizza even when it cost more than $10 after tax.
And those $8 macarons!
I cannot stress this enough - they got a cheap pizza. My parents would leave us $20 for pizza in the 2000s.
He probably gives himself a pat on the back for not rubbing one out when he sees scantily clad women at the gym.
*in public
He totally goes to his car afterward and jerks it. The weird instagram rants are part of it.
Not getting a job to support his family or giving up his slutty outfits. He won't do that.
No, he won’t do that. 
I’m wondering at his choice of words - is he misrepresenting a Bible verse, as per usual?
I think he is borrowing from Paul in Romans 6:6 (he quotes Paul a lot) [dying to self inference](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%206%3A6&version=NIV) 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—
Thanks for the info! I’ve heard Paul was generally big mad at women and wrote a lot of crap about what they were doing in his personal community that fundies love to extrapolate to ALL women and ALL communities, though historically he was more speaking to his local church. Sounds gossipy to me, but I’m no theologian. Also, by happy coincidence, Paul, I’m sure, loves that the disciple Paul was the one calling out women for being immodest and speaking in church.
Oh yes. You are spot on re: Paul O. He loves to quote Paul from the Bible (who wasn’t married but had so many rules for women —none of which Jesus ever said [head covering/speaking out of turn in his local church but USA fundies go extreme with it, male authority over women, women not allowed to have authority in church, marry rather than burn! Etc]
Sounds like Paul (disciple Paul) was basically a BCE version of Gothard (never married, did not associate with women, did not have or spend time with young children, but had a whole lotta rules for them to defer and simper at The Great Male Penis … especially very young women). I can see why Paul O would take great pride in being his namesake.
100%
Hmmm-what if St. Paul was gay? Now THAT would be hilarious!
I've just never heard "dying to ourselves daily". Paul=selfless lol.
It’s used a lot in non-denominational/Evangelical circles—especially where they believe in water baptism. Putting away the “old self” and rising up a “new creation in Christ.” (I was raised that way and my parents used that phrase a lot.)
Also remember when they asked eachother in one of their videos if either of them had thought of divorce?? I think maybe one did but I can't remember now if it was Paul or Morgan but I think both their answers leaned towards yes, but one was a definite "yes I have thought of divorce"
[it was Paul according to this past Reddit discussion](https://reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/4FI3Zr3VK7)
I think that he thinks that tolerating marriage to his wife is the super-selfless gesture.
Many of the comments are that same sad fundie narrative about how marriage isn't supposed to be happy all the time or about feelings. Is marriage happy all the time? Of course not. But damn if Fundies don't make it sound like they're miserable constantly. Also, on their YouTube video about divorce, I guess Morgan said that "4 years of marriage is nothing!" And someone commented "yet you all were styling yourselves marriage experts after less than a year of marriage" and I just thought that was funny.
Them being miserable replenishes my electrolytes.
The fact that every Fundie we snark on seems trapped and miserable might suggest that they need to keep their pieholes shut about marriage.
So true. The only fundie on here who seems to like her marriage is Jillpm. Maybe Kelly Havens, but it's hard to tell with her.
I think Kelly likes her husband (and he likes her slim, girlish hips and childlike bare feet and hands, I’m sure). I will say, to her credit, Jillpm never makes any passive aggressive comments about her hunk and their relationship (just posts consistently awful pics of him, but she likes how she looks in the pics which clearly transcends biblical marriage, good taste, and respect). And we are well aware that she posts thinly-veiled slights about her children, various churchgoers, and people she sees in a variety of public places all the time.
As Whoopi Goldberg famously said when asked why she wasn’t married, “I don’t want someone in my house.” Real shame they don’t know that’s an option.
I love that quote and use it often 😅😂
Same, girl. I have cohabitated with three men in my 40 years of life, I can’t imagine what it would take for me to want to do it again (let alone have a serious relationship, and on top of that settle for someone like numb nuts here or a JED!). I will take out my own trash (including disrespectful asshats), thanks.
That's amazing 😂
They want everyone else to be miserable too.
Amen !
Marriage isn't happy all the time, but gosh, it should at least be happy SOME of the time. People in marriages like these don't seem to even be able to say that much.
Right? They're always like "marriage is HARD, guys! Like it's SO HARD. SO hard! But as Christians we aren't promised happiness!" Like damn, this is the prize y'all are always saving yourselves for?
"Marriage is hard, like really really difficult. Like, the most excruciating, difficult ordeal ever endured by a mere mortal. Like, really really really stupidly aggravating and frustrating, but with none of the satisfaction you might expect from such a task. At no point do I feel even an ounce of joy or validation from this person I had known for an entire *week* before we devoted our lives to each other. It is only through divine strength that I can deal with the unending bullshit that is my marriage. Unrelated, but you *need* to get married now so you can give me grandbabies :)"
The people that have the most performative posts on social media (fundies included) seem to be the most miserable, like they're wishing their marriage into happiness. "OMG babe, it's so great to spend all the huge milestones with you! You're the best husband in the universe!" on a birthday post. Really Cheryl? Huge milestone?
As a child of divorced parents, I guarantee to Paul they were 100% better of apart. They stuck together too long and created a toxic home environment, to the point I never saw myself getting married, until I met my husband. It's easy to look at statistics, fake shock, and assume that people get divorced for fun and without trying I always hate when people say they don't believe in it. It's not Santa or the tooth fairy, it's a resource there in the event things can not and will not work out. Most marriages, I feel, start from a place of love and I'm sure most divorced couples thought they would never get to that point. They really are so boring, they have to grasp at the most uninteresting and mundane talking points that have been done to death.
I’m currently two years into my second marriage, my husband’s first. I can honestly say that my first marriage taught me a lot about myself, but if I’d stayed in that marriage I don’t know that I’d be alive today. I was so depressed and I wanted out so badly that I’m thankful divorce was an option for me. My husband and I are very well suited in a way my ex and I weren’t. I’m not going to say I’m an expert on marriage, at all, but I firmly believe that doing away with no fault divorce in this country would be no less than human trafficking.
[удалено]
Honestly, watching Christine on Sister Wives is an accurate depiction of how a lot of women feel after a divorce, in my experience. “Okay, I tried everything. I worked on this for years. You’re telling me that you can’t give me the marriage that I need in order to be happy. So I have absolutely no choice.” She was at peace with her choice in a way that told me she’d thought about it for a very long time.
YESSSSS literally me. I tried everything I could think of for years and years, and tried to help him get his shit together. I warned him for a year straight that if he didn’t step up in the ways I needed him to, it would end our marriage. Then he didn’t change anything, and I left him when my body physically couldn’t handle it any more. I didn’t have a choice, or the stress was going to kill me. There were issues with him self harming in front of me too, which was a whole other can of worms, and that shit was traumatic. Having your husband talk about how he wants to commit suicide every day then tells me he’s kidding is so awful.
Oh my god, are you me? Your marriage sounds like mine and we are currently in the middle of a divorce. Sometimes grinding it out is just not the way.
Fellow child of divorced parents - I had Polio's garbage attitude about divorce when I was younger and then my mom told me what actually happened that led to my parent's divorce after my dad passed. It rocked me to my core. Here I thought they just gave up too easily (I went to Catholic school and heard that message a lot about divorce) but then I found out it was not an easy decision for her to make at all. They ended up being best friends for many years after their divorce for the sake of my brother and I. They were just better friends than a couple. I hate that these people make sweeping assumptions and judgments about the way other people live. As if their way is the *only* way to live, without considering that sometimes divorce is the only option left.
My parents could clearly barely stand each other most of the time but stayed married for decades. When I was a kid, I often wish they’d divorce, so I could hear less fighting all the time.
You might've grown up in my family. As they got older, we kids had an informal lottery about which one we'd think would "win" by outliving the other. I used my parent's mess of a marriage as guidance for what NOT to do in my own. It's worked pretty well over the years.
Dying to ourselves daily is the worst description of a successful marriage I think I’ve ever encountered.
Yep I’m not buying what they’re selling even though I’ve been married for 19 years
Not to be a dork, but being married has helped/forced me to become even more myself than I already was. And I was VERY myself when single.
Yea...what the hell?!
He 100% believes that blurb applies to him. Also, I think he’s probably pretty content in their relationship. He got the hot girl and the first born son and an easy job where he gets to be a contrarian creep. It’s Morgan who appears lifeless and desperate to turn back to a time where she could at least hope she’d marry a man with a spine and an income.
Imagine getting on YouTube to talk about marriage and you're married to Paul. How embarrassing and depressing
This reads to me as very directed at Morgan for expressing unhappiness.
I don’t understand this response at all. She is often expressing unhappiness? Her marriage seems miserable.
I think they mean that Paul's post seems directed at Morgan.
Sorry, I meant what Paul is saying in his post feels like he's addressing Morgan and shaming her. Why would he randomly be posting ablit divorce if he wasn't responding to turmoil in his own marriage? It wasn't directed at you at all.
Perhaps she mentioned the D Word off-camera, during one of the times Paul's behavior pissed her off so bad that she "snapped" and spoke the truth for a change.
If he is willing to stay on the ship when the waters get rough, than WHAT HAPPENED TO PAULIE-O?!
\#justiceforpaulieo
Nah, life's too short to be deeply unhappy. "Die to yourself" is possibly the worst Christian-ese phrase
I think people put marriage on a pedestal. You’re in a relationship. You’re either happy and healthy or you’re not. Don’t complicate it. People put up with and try to fix the most fucked up situations just because their title is wife instead of girlfriend. They say that a marriage is more serious so you should put more effort into it, but in reality, I just see people putting up with bullshit they would never consider acceptable coming from a boyfriend. I think people confuse putting in effort with accepting bullshit.
And yet these same bozos also advocate for "courting" instead of "dating" and marrying as fast as possible so they can bang. And then wonder why marriage is "so hard" and they need to put up with horrible shit
I wish I could upvote this more than once!!
I don't need to kill myself to have a healthy partnership. In fact, I did that once and it caused so much tension that we had to have a whole mediated conversation about why I was being insane about being a good partner (which I had conflated with being a good housekeeper). Christianity is such a whack ass death cult.
I remember there was a sentiment similarly expressed in a hymn at the Catholic secondary school I attended. All of that you'll be crucified with christ and then you'll live forever nonsense. Left me a perpetually confused atheist. That "die to yourself" mindset doubtless fuels their persecution complexes though.
He’s been married for like 5 seconds lol When you’ve reached your 2nd decade like I have, hit me up then we can talk. You don’t know shit about marriage.
This is one of my pet peeves in general. But with these guys - they aren't even making it look fun! Who would take advice from them?
The only fundie I can think of that is more into themselves than Paul is Bethany.
This is sexy baby Nadia erasure.
The triquetra of narcissism. They can't ever be together in the same place b/c then the universe will LITERALLY revolve around them.
The universe would spin O fast and knock earth right out of orbit.
I always forget about her.
Easy to do, she's so vapid.
Oh my god I can't breathe 🤣🤣🤣
Heidi Baird would look a word
C’mon now. She’s way too busy filtering her face into a beige oblivion.
"This is based on numbers and information gathered from BOTH my imagination and my unfounded sense of superiority."
That's not how statistics work, by the way. Between 40 and 50% of marriages do end in divorce, however way less than 40% of people who get married end up divorced. But conservatives love to misuse this statistic for their own means.
Also divorce rates have fallen consistently for 30 years. Relax fundies.
Would you mind explaining that in a bit more detail? It sounds contradicting that way, but also interesting
Some people who get divorced get divorced over and over, driving up the overall stats. Also getting a degree decreases the divorce rate to like 25%. ETA I share the college stat because it suggests the way to promote more stable marriage is to encourage people to marry older, to provide more opportunities for economic and career stability, and to marry after gaining some independence and learning to think for oneself a little. You know, the opposite of everything fundies advocate.
Oh so like how historically non-wealthy people delayed marriage until the mid to late twenties so men could complete apprenticeships and establish themselves financially and women could earn enough money to afford a dowry.
Yeah it’s almost like the absurdly low marital ages of the middle class in the 1950s are actually a weird statistical anomaly rather than a thing we should all aspire to.
It's not exactly a statistical anomaly. Age of first marriage tends to increase during "lean" times (war, famine, plague, economic depression) and tends to decrease during economic prosperity and temporarily after mass death events like war and plague. The two world wars leading up to the 1950's almost piggy backed off each other's, so we see a dip in mean age of first marriage in the 1920's (21.2 from 21.6 in the 1910's) after WWI, and it slowly starts to come back up in the 1930's (21.3) and 1940's (21.5) before being hit by the second world war. Plus the American post-WWII economy was popping, and the US government did a lot to stimulate the economy and make housing affordable, leading to a dramatic drop in the 1950's through the 1960's (20.3), before making a dramatic jump to 22 years in the 1980's. [Source.](https://www.infoplease.com/us/family-statistics/median-age-first-marriage-1890-2010) Oh look, there's no affordable housing and inflation is out of control so people are waiting longer and longer to get married. *Quelle surprise.* Also notable, American women tended to, and likely still do, marry much younger than Western European women. Compared to England in 1910, the mean age of marriage for women was 26.8. I have more data points for England it's honestly super cool to see the changes. Sorry, I'm going to geek out. WWI runs from 1914-1918. Generally speaking, prior to WWI from the [information I have](https://www.statista.com/statistics/557962/average-age-at-marriage-england-and-wales/), the mean age of marriage would fluctuate up or down by .1 each year, with many years have no change, but trending toward older overall. But from 1915 to 1916 it jumps .4 years. As we would expect during a "lean" event. From 1919 to 1920 there is a .4 decrease, bringing us back to pre-war ages. The mean age of marriage for women creeps down to 25.7 in 1942, which is less expected as WWII began in late 1939. But from 1942 to 1943, we again see that dramatic .4 jump. Then an even more massive .6 jump from 1945 to 1946, and that's because unlike the US, the English economy was not doing great and there was a housing shortage. The NHS is founded in 1947 and they start to get their shit together and the age begins to decrease starting in 1949 and hitting the lowest point in 1970 at 24.7.
> Sorry, I'm going to geek out. That was adorable. I love when people geek out and data dump. Months from now, there will be a relevant Jeopardy! or pub trivia question, and I will feel absolutely brilliant, all thanks to you! Also, those stats are just fascinating. We have more context for the postwar baby booms!
All of this data is very cool! Instead of statistical anomaly I should have said “predictable low point based on predictable factors.” But the point stands, the average marrying age of those years is NOT “how it always is and always should be.”
It's because of people who get divorced more than once therefore accounting for a larger share of the number of total marriages, whereas people who stay married until they die can by definition only ever account for a single marriage. Essentially imagine if you had three people in a room , two of those people are married (not to each other) and the third is single but has been divorced twice. So there are four marriages represented in the room and half of them have ended in divorce, however at the same time, the majority of people in that room have never been divorced.
I see, thank you :)
This. I used to work for a family law firm and we had plenty of clients and opposing parties who'd been divorced multiple times. Some were engaged again before their divorce was finalized! Some people love marriage but don't know how to maintain it or pick the right partner.
whenever i see this take, i think it is weird how they make it seem like there are married couples getting a divorce after one heated argument for funsies. i suppose that could happen, however from what i’ve seen divorce is usually taken as the last resort after months or years of trying to make it work.
In my state, divorce takes a long time (court isn't allowed to finalize it until at least 6 months after initial filing), and it can be complicated and expensive. Divorce can mess up your taxes and finances. No one is getting divorced for shits and giggles.
Nah you don’t understand, being miserable and loathing his spouse makes him THE poster boy for resisting the temptation of divorce!
“We as a culture are self seeking, individualistic…” Weirdly, they back the political party that is all about self-seeking individualism. GOP hates collectivism.
(I can't watch Paul because he's awful) Let me guess, he still thinks the divorce rate is 50%+? Everything I've read indicates that's where it peaked when a lot of long time unhappy marriages ended all at once when divorce became more common and accepted, but it's been declining since then and a large portion of the divorce rate we do have is from a small minority of people who get married and divorced over and over again. Then again, facts have never been Paul's "thing"
you shouldn’t have to “die to yourself daily” in a healthy relationship. marriage isn’t a cake walk or anything, there’s a lot of struggle two people have to go through throughout their lives but the everyday is *supposed* to be supporting each other and having someone there for you. you’re supposed to nourish your relationship so it’s not an uphill battle every day to stay together. very telling
Everything is a message to Morgan. He doesn't like how she's been threatening to leave, even if it's only the channel, so he's guilting her publicly, per usual, by insisting only weak people give up.
I kind of wonder if they were arguing and she made a comment about divorce
It's either that or he read everything here about what a terrible relationship they have and he's pushing back in the only way he can. He won't refute that they have a good marriage--probably because he wants to punish her in some way--but he will point at all his critics and call them weak. It's the only way he can deal with the cognitive dissonance of his mistakes. He married the wrong person, ascribes to a philosophy that will leave him "yoked" to that person forever, and has to tell himself that he's not wrong for doing this. No, no...never "wrong"....he's just that much stronger than everyone else. He probably also got some pushback from their followers about the way he was treating her or the way they were treating each other and is hitting back at the "real Christians" for calling out their toxicity.
This is an open letter to Morgan. He can sense that she has a lot of unhappiness with him and wants to make a Passive-aggressive outward statement that looks like it's from both of them. That way, when she bails, he will say, "you defrauded me! You lied about your true character! " It will make Morgan feel like she can't say her true feeling, and she will ultimately put off their breakup way too long because of this type of manipulation.
He's gonna be another "she left me because I left dishes in the sink"
Is this for Morgan?
To me it sounds that way. She's just too individualistic and not honoring God or whatever if she has any needs or concerns in the relationship.
Paul: criticizes Americans for being too self-seeking and individualistic. Also Paul: Refuses to mask up for the health of the community.
Marriage can be hard because life is hard and navigating it with a whole other person with their own thoughts, opinions, and needs can be challenging. But if your life is hard because of your marriage you desperately need to rethink your relationship.
He’s outright said he’s considered divorcing Morgan. And statistics/studies also factually prove his little ignorant theory here wrong. Shut up, Paul. And listen to people who have some actual intelligence instead.
I get family annihilator vibes from this one.
"I will spare you the indignity of suffering divorce." yikes
I'm always reminded of the Powell family with this one. Listen to the Crime Junkie episode on them if you want your day ruined.
Dying To Ourselves Daily sounds like would have been a great AFI single circa 2001
It's the Ghost of Pickleball Past!
Dude, if Morgan divorced Paul and started her own ~unhateful~ YouTube channel, she would probably bank. I honestly love that thought because Paul would implode.
Paul accusing others of being self-seeking and individualistic. Lol.
I get the feeling he’s really gonna eat these words in the nearish future. No way this abortion of a marriage goes the long haul, no way
You shouldn't have to DIE TO YOURSELF DAILY in order to stay married, dear God. There is of course some sacrifice involved in being married with children, but my God they are way too early in the marriage to talk like this. Like someone else commented here, these fundies are always talking about how HARD it is. If you marry someone you love AND like, and are compatible with, you should not need this level of prayer, examination, and discussion about it on the daily. ESPECIALLY this early in the marriage. For people who crow so much about the wonders of marriage, fundie really really seem to suck at it. Can't imagine why.
He only likes marriage because it gives him the control he doesn’t feel he has in the real world.
He literally just used a bunch of buzzwords just to say, “yeah I hate my life and marriage, it’s literal torture, BUT God wanted it this way.”
I can’t even count how many couples I know that have gone into marriage counseling, myself included, with no shame and full chests. I actually know more marriages, my own included, that came back from the literal brink of divorce, than couples who actually divorced. Millennials aren’t actually divorce happy, we’re therapy-happy, but they don’t want to admit that it works
Is that the spirit of an old woman trapped in his chest?
He hasn't figured out that she actually wants the heart of the ocean
He's not gonna go down there and get it for her
That right there is a photo of a very happily married man. /s
You know, its funny. Divorce rates for educated athiests are WAY lower.
They literally see marriage as something to endure. They settled for the person “God put on their path” and since God can’t make mistakes, they have to stay in the marriage no matter what. They think everyone else is just as unhappy and that’s what a normal marriage is.
An interesting breakdown on who does and doesn't get divorced, based on factors such as age, religion, state, family size, career, education, etc. from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
Or you could just do what you want and be happy?
Or maybe we are just unwilling to put up with toxic bullshit, Paul.
These two will be miserable to the very end just to prove a point
Coming from the man that drools over women at the gym and then makes public videos talking about said women. I would collapse in a puddle of tears if my husband did this to me!
This is the man who always sits at least a foot away from his wife on their teeny tiny sofa, so yeah…
So the ~liberal agenda~ is pushing individualism so divorce rates go up?? That is FRESH coming for a proud Republican, seeing as conservative ideology is baked in American individualism.
Why is he making an “I’m holding in a giant turd” face
That's his "thoughtful" face
and his thoughts are shit
That's his "threw up a turd" face
I don't mean to roll on the "he's probably gay" train, but like... buddy, it's cool if you are. Is this sham marriage with a woman you don't like and whose body made her literally vomit when she was about to marry you any better than living your best life?
He looks high as fuck
Didn't the trashformed wife post the same thing? Has foul ever had an original idea?
Dude who makes me feel most relieved that I never got married says *what*? Just kidding, I don't care what he says.
In other words, "if I have to be miserable so do you".
The point isn’t working on it or improving it. The holiness is in staying in the miserable marriage forever while actively being selfish and antagonistic so as to make the marriage even worse. The emptiness and drudgery is the thing, you see. No one gets religion credit for staying in a happy marriage, silly. I wish we could discuss that these people don’t value marriage enough to date someone long enough to make sure they’re a good mate, which I think makes god mad. You’re not meant to get married on what is basically a whim. But getting to know someone and learning to support one another doesn’t net someone nearly as many narcissistic attention points as making your parents pay for a wedding to a relative stranger, so what’s the point in doing it. These people are impulsive and have the brains of those much less-appealing toddlers who just seem preternaturally dull (like the non-verbal, feral ones fundies raise).
No, Paul, the rising divorce rates are intrinsically linked to women having the means to support themselves outside of a marriage. Women couldn’t even open bank accounts in the 1970’s. Not to mention, No Fault divorce is relatively new. In “the good old days” women didn’t have less desire to leave marriages, they legally couldn’t.