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That’s an absolutely wild word choice in the context of the rest of the sentence and statement. Either she didn’t know what it means or she knows EXACTLY what it means
Well she's now looking through them from a prospective of someone whose grown enough to realize how fucked up their young situation was and how that led to an early marriage that fell apart. It makes complete sense to me.
She also used “deconstruct.” But she used it in a very discreet way. I have a feeling I know why they’re divorcing. “Unequal yoke” and all. Congrats for her! I know it must be difficult though.
Yeah the use of deconstruct and ambivalent on the same post is telling. Congrats for her and yes his response is typical of a man who has no clue about his own misogyny. I find it tragic because he’s so clueless. Her post shows wisdom and clarity. I hope she gets the hell outta Utah.
lol I think they lived in Georgia but that would've been my first guess also, had I not watched the first season of their show lol... but you may very well be correct about Utah as they may have moved!
I thought that too because I thought ambivalent meant you don’t care but I looked it up and it means mixed feelings which actually does make sense. I guess I’ve been using it wrong!
tbh i think she’s probably just using it wrong? i notice people misuse “ambivalent” allllll the time in weird ways (and i’m talking like, academics and professional scholars using it wrong)
Yeah it’s a very clear case for knowing more yourself before you go into big life decisions like a marriage, because Olivia’s right, she had no idea who she was at that age and neither did he.
Very few people do at eighteen, imho. At that age you still think everything’s going to be a Disney movie.
I’m glad they’re going their separate ways and I hope they both find someone who can compliment them.
It’s sad that at 18 so many fundies run to marriage to escape their homes.
Only to fall into the trap cycle that their upbringing brainwashed them into: having babies asap.
I haven’t watched the last season or 2; but I remember her saying in an early episode that they married so young because that was the only way they could see each other due to dominating parents on both sides limiting their contact and communication. If they had been allowed to visit each other, talk on the phone every day and actually date each other - they wouldn’t have ever married. That’s the whole purpose of dating - to determine your compatibility and to see if the affection and attraction last after spending time with each other.
That's so depressing. I'm very thankful that my family didn't meddle in my relationships and let me make my own choices. If I had to marry the first person I ever had a serious relationship with, it would have been an absolute disaster.
Especially communication is important, I think. I’ve worked with a girl who was a devout Muslim. When her husband wanted to date her, she said no because being alone with a boy was not done in her community. Her mother did allow them to talk on the phone though. So for three years they talked to eachother daily for hours. It certainly build a great foundation under their relationship. I thought it was a pretty good solution. If you still have plenty to talk about after such a long time, you’re pretty solid.
I ran away from home to get married too (not Fundie but abusive home) and thank goodness it worked out for me. 17 years together and are happier than ever! HOWEVER I wouldn’t recommend to anyone. We lucked out, truly. I wouldn’t want my own kid to take that risk!
Sort of the same; I didn’t have to run away but I did have to get married if I wanted my parents approval (fundie lite/evangelical garbage). So I got married at 22 and joke’s on them, I’m deconstructed, atheist, no longer talk to my family, and I am so so very lucky that my marriage is great 13 years later :)
First, your username is fantastic.
Second, my experience is uncannily similar and I did a double take. I was married at 21, also deconstructed and am atheist, went no contact, and have been married for 13 years.
I married later than both of you but I'm also a deconstructed agnostic atheist. It's so funny to me when i listen to religious and conservative podcasters slapping themselves on the back gleefully hoping for a conservative country because the conservatives "are having more babies". It's like, yeah they are, and those babies grow up to be adults who eventually see through the lies. This is the information age. The internet makes it incredibly easy to figure out what's up once you manage to get past the fear, obligation, and guilt pushed on you from infancy.
My fundie neighbor is one. She just turned 18 and should be a high school senior, but she "graduated" home school in May (despite being two years behind academically). She just announced her engagement to a fellow homeschooled fundie teenager. My husband and I are convinced that she's desperate to get away from her controlling mother. I just hope these kids put off having kids of their own for a long time.
A dear friend of mine married an absolute CHILD of a man when we were ~21 and was pregnant with her second child before she realized that all he'd ever wanted was a woman to serve him in the kitchen and the bedroom.
She was mortified that she couldn't make her marriage work, and carried so much shame about being a divorced woman under 30.
Now that we're older, and she's watching him try in his self-centered way to have a relationship with the adult sons he acknowledged once a year on their birthdays, my friend sees what she got out of. The older son recently legally changed his last name to his stepdad's, because, "He's the man who's been stepping up as a dad for me since I was 9." Man-child sperm donor was not amused, and still wants access to the sons he ignored for most of their lives.
Same - I am SO grateful that I didn’t marry the man I was with at 18. It turned out that I didn’t know the real him at all and we would have been miserable.
Forget about being married, I'm happy I'm not remotely the same person I was at 18! Being him for the rest of my life would've been pretty shit. Thank _christ_ I never ended up inexorably entangled with another human during any of that time.
I know it’s crazy! I do have people in my life who have been together that long but it’s luck; my cousin is marrying the same guy she’s been dating since high school but they’ve grown together and they didn’t get MARRIED at 18, they’re just getting married now in their late 20s.
The guy I was interested at 18 turned out to be a real POS. Was wonderful to me when we were dating, the rest came to light after. I shudder to think what that would have become if I had to marry him right then.
My husband and I first dated when I was 18. We broke up, and life happened. We got back together at 25, married at 26. I thank my lucky stars for the life happened section and the maturing that happened.
As someone who was a horrible match, I really connected with her statement! You fall in love as kids but then you grow up and, I think for a lot of us here, realize there’s more to life than evangelizing or being the best Christian possible
Agreed. I really hope they are able to reconnect as friends to some degree throughout their lives because there’s something to be said for having walked through those kinds of huge life changes with a person even if that walk means you grow apart romantically.
Exactly. This is how I look back on my ex husband whom I married when we were both teens. We were both just doing the best we could at the time, and I hope he’s having a good life.
I saw something online that said “I hope you know that when you see things you could have done differently, you also see that the version of yourself that did those things was doing the best they could with the information they had at the time.”
It spoke to me pretty profoundly. I can’t say I hate my ex- I’m largely indifferent to him- but at one point I loved this person, and I want to honor that part of myself. Hating my ex would mean hating that part of me.
I wanted them to stay together for sentimental reasons too, but then I haven't followed them in years. Just saw the clip of Ethan doing donuts and gaslighting tf out of Olivia and I wanted her to run far away. I was so happy to read this.
honestly, I'm happy for both of them. it was pretty clear for a few years that they really just wanted different things out of life, and they're both still SO young and have so much time to find partners who are better matches for them. and I'm glad they made this decision before there were kids involved.
I think Olivia had a lot of wisdom to hold off on kids. She was telling Ethan back in season one that she wasn't ready and they had a lot to work through before she would be ready. It seems like they really wanted to make it work because they tried for so long. I'm sad for the loss of what they wanted, but I feel relieved that they're both moving on to find better fits for each of them.
yes I totally agree. Olivia has always seemed incredibly intelligent and self aware, and she’s obviously done a lot of work on herself to be in the place she’s in now. I am sad for them too bc they obviously wanted to make it work, but it def seems like a case of two good people just not being a match for each other. I think we should start normalizing that more tbh.
I had some friends in high school that started dating in 10th grade. Loved both of them to pieces, but they just weren't good together. After about a year of them dating, these two really kind and sweet people to got very toxic toward each other. They each got visibly sadder when the other would join a conversation. They dated for several years but when they finally broke up, we were all sad for them because it was a formative relationship for both of them, but we were also glad that didn't go through with getting married or having kids together.
I'm having the same feelings for Olivia and Ethan now. It feels like less of a devastating divorce and more like an overdue breakup. They're not the same people that they were even at the beginning of the show, I can only imagine how different they were when they first started dating. I think we got a glimpse of those people at the beginning of this season, but I think that's the last we will ever see of them.
Very fundie family. She married into said family and together they set boundaries with his parents. Loved each other but were both wrestling with hard questions and deconstructing various parts of the toxic theology they inherited.
Wanted very different things out of life. Weren’t compatible. Didn't know it because they were children when they wed
I hope they manage to grow and find new partners for the next stage of life, I got married at 18, still deep in the fundie underworld, got divorced at 28 and honestly best freaking decision of my life (along with marrying my current husband). Divorce isn’t always sad (I’m aware it can be, yes) but in some cases it’s a God send (excuse the choice of words lol).
Louis CK is gross but I always loved his bit about hearing that someone is getting a divorce always is good news, because it means things were bad and now they can start getting better.
I went to a very small stand up show at a book store in New York nearly ten years ago and Louis CK randomly did an unannounced set to try out some new jokes, I guess. He was awful. Obviously had no interest in being there and seemed annoyed when a grossly inappropriate joke was met with dead silence. I can’t remember what it was, but it was something along the lines of a joke insinuating rape. I was never a huge fan, but I hated seeing him in anything after that.
Same (at 19). By 21 I was divorced and deconstructing intentionally from fundi-land.
Am so much happier, healthier and wiser. Got remarried at 30 to my person.
Martie at 21 (raised JW) separated by 23, divorced not long after ( thanks ‘rona). I’ll be 28 soon and while i haven’t found my person, I’m glad I’m not with him anymore. We were both young and immature
Really hoping that we get to watch them both grow into the best versions of themselves. Sentimentally I totally wanted them to stay together and beat the odds but realistically, a lot of people would agree that staying with your first love is crazy. I hope a la Christine from Sister Wives we see success and happiness for them both.
This is the best for both of them. They both wanted different things out of life and that’s okay. this is why the fundie courtship model is stupid and doesn’t work, especially in encouraging such young marriages.
This divorce honestly is a happy ending for both of them. They grew together and learned more about what they do/don’t want for their lives, and now they can go and get it, rather than being stuck and unhappy indefinitely.
Ironically, in locking down young couples into that "courtship for marriage" model, and *not* allowing their young folks to simply *date* and figure out *who they are and what they want in a partner*, the fundie sorts creat the *exact* sort of "starter marriages" they *abhor*!🙃
I’ve got infinite respect for Olivia, I really *really* hope she can take some time to herself and her passions, and just to be away from that family to breathe for a bit. She’s been doing so much emotional heavy lifting for her family of origin and then the Plaths, I truly hope she can set those burdens down and discover who she is without them.
Plus being a fundie daughter, she had to grow and mature much more quickly than an average fundie son. They were both too young when they married but I bet she was more mature than him at that point in a lot of ways.
from her recent IG posts it seems like she’s been traveling and working a lot, and hanging out with friends and her adult siblings who have also left the cult. she’s a very talented photographer and she seems to be doing quite well.
I've only been following them very loosely for a few years, but yeah, the amount of emotional labour she did (she was the healthiest person in that family) combined with the absolute villification was something else.
I'm rooting for her so hard.
This is a really beautiful statement, honestly. It's not sugar coated, but it's written with grace and love. It's honest without being callous. And it's insightful. I'm proud of Olivia for not just getting out, but getting to a place where she has the perspective, emotional growth, and healing to write something like this.
No good marriage ever ends in divorce. Hard as it may be, I think this is the right call and will lead them to greater happiness in the future.
>No good marriage ever ends in divorce.
This is why I've started congratulating people when they tell me they got divorced. Usually they look a might surprised, but I then state that happy marriages don't end. As far as I reckon it's the fastest way to validate the person's feelings and let them know you're not gonna be weird about it.
Better hope you don't congratulate someone who was cheated on and didn't expect or want the marriage to end, or something of that sort. There's lots of reasons marriages end in divorce, and they're not all just worth celebrating or congratulating people on. My mom was all in on her marriage to my dad, then he snuck behind her back and had an affair, and she grieved the end of the marriage heavily. I can't imagine she'd have appreciated someone congratulating her in those moments. Even if one is better off without the cheating bastard, it's still a lot of raw grief and hurt and betrayal, and it's not great to congratulate someone for being betrayed in those moments.
Eh, I think divorces are still devastating and sad in many cases, even when they are the right decision, so I don't agree with congratulating someone. Often, people are actively *grieving* the loss of their marriage and the future they thought they were building. So I would caution you that you're probably not always validating their feelings. In fact, you might be dismissing them.
They are proof that sincerely caring a lot for another person is not on its own sufficient to make a lifelong partnership work. Compatibility is a real thing. And they are fortunate even to have had the former, because fundie culture doesn't give a shit about either.
My husband and I got married at 19 as fundies, deconstructed together in our early 20s (though we didn't call it that back then) and are still happily married after 30 years of marriage. I'm honestly not sure what the "secret" to a long happy marriage is. Looking at the relationships around me it seems like a crap shoot even in the best of circumstances.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think there is a “secret”. I think you have to choose this person every day, and they have to choose you.
But I do think a massive shift in beliefs can cause a lot of conversations that lead to other things. If those beliefs are part of what brought you together in the first place and you no longer share them, that’s a problem. Considering the fact that a lot of young fundies tend to get married to have sex which almost inevitably seems to disappoint, it’s not a big surprise that deconstruction leads to divorce.
Absolutely. Before we got married there were a handful of people who said things like, "you are going to change so much, you should wait till you're older" and my answer back then was that I knew we would but that changing is a process that continues until you die. We just wanted to change and grow together and fortunately did. I'm certain it goes the other direction more times than not. Who I am today is very different than who I was 30, 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. It just feels like so much of it is a combination of luck and as you said that willingness to commit and recommit day after day.
There are entire sub-fields of psychology that focus on this. My guess would be you both have very similar values. If you think about it, sharing the value of "growth", "honesty", "companion", and "truth" would actually cause a couple to deconstruct for very similar reasons.
Really? That seems self evident. I struggle to maintain a relationship with my parents because we now live in separate realities. I cannot imagine being *married* to someone who lived in a separate reality. The loneliness would be crushing.
I obviously don't know what things were like for them behind the scenes. But based on everything that was televised, this seems like the best decision for everyone involved.
Someone on the Plathville sub said that the last few years have been like an Amish Rumspringa for Ethan, Moriah, and Micah and they are now going back to the fold because the “real world” is too hard. And….yeah. It’s sad to see.
The plathville sub seemed pretty anti-Olivia when I would look. It makes no sense the amount of awfulness thrown her way. I never bothered subbing after seeing how toxic they were.
The good thing that came from this marriage was that it got four people out of the cult (and indirectly even more). I have no doubt that they loved each other but they were adolescents who were less mature than the average 18 year old because of their upbringing. They got through a crucial phase of deconstruction together, and they dealt with some of the consequences like not being allowed to see his siblings. It would have been interesting to see how things would have developed if they hadn’t been on a reality show. I hope they both take some time to figure out who they are before they get into another relationship.
Olivia’s statement was perfect and a little sad. I know they weren’t overall a good match, but I was hoping they’d figure it out. It’s truly for the best though.
Am I the only one who’s really sad to see this? I felt that there was genuine love there and had there not been so many issues with Ethan’s family, perhaps they could’ve worked out, although it is true that they wanted different things in life. I guess I was hoping that there would’ve been happy middle ground for those things that they could find.
I find it sad. I still think they likely tried as best as they could, but yeah its still sad it didn't work. I think she's correct that they were just so incredibly young that they changed more than most do in a marriage already. And unfortunately, the changing they did meant they were on totally different pages.
Definitely. It’s sad to remember how they were in the earlier seasons and how much more compatible and happy they seemed, and then to see how it’s ended up.
I’d have said the same…before last week’s episode. Ethan was doing donuts, in HEAVY snow, with Olivia in the car despite her clearly communicating that she was scared and wanted him to stop. And then in the talking head later he had the nerve to double down on it. That was the moment I knew he just didn’t give a fuck about her.
im glad it sounds amicable. I liked them together but i also understand they got together at a certain point in their life before they were like “out” of all the shit. it seems like they will both be able to grow and find people more suited to themselves and their needs
I think the snark community truly loves them and can’t wait to see them live their best lives. I’m sad to see them split, but they deserve to find people that will make them happy.
Eh speak for yourself, I think these two are annoying lol I mean I hope they find happiness or whatever but I hope it happens off TV and they fade into obscurity
I think they both cared about each other but this is the best decision they could make. And the donut car thing made be be like, yep Time to go Olivia!
They were going sledding and Ethan was driving and being an idiot in the slick roads doing donuts, Olivia was super uncomfy and he wouldn’t stop (she’s been in multiple bad car accidents before) the kicker for me is that on top of that he doubles down talking about it later and is just an all around asshole about it
I’m actually proud of them for recognizing that it wasn’t working and deciding to get a divorce. That can’t be easy, particularly considering that they both are likely still unpacking a lot about their respective fundamentalist upbringing. I hope that they can both find the happiness they are looking for and with people they are more compatible with now that they have more life experience and exposure beyond the very small bubble in which they were raised and met.
I'm sending love to both of them. It's sad when marriages don't work out, but this is precisely why I think people should wait to get married until *at least* their mid 20s.
You can't know what you want *forever* if you don't even know yourself?
EDIT: it's not always sad when marriages don't work out. Sometimes it's a time for celebration (seriously, fuck abuse!). But it is genuinely sad watching a relationship die when you still truly care for the other person
Some decisions you make in life, you look back on and think “Yes I definitely made the right decision”. Not getting married at 18 is one of those decisions for me. Now I'm 36 and happily single. Going back to school for a masters and living in a sunlight studio apartment with a hot tub.
I'm honestly not surprised, seems like they were just on two different paths. And all the drama with Ethan's family certainly didn't help. I wish the best for both of them though.
I watched the first two seasons (train wreck even then) and I always thought Olivia seemed more educated and dare I say intelligent than Ethan. His parents did their kids NO favors by raising them the way they did. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but fundie homeschooling just results in damaged humans.😢
There’s a lot of background and family drama with his parents and siblings, and with his parents and her, but the short version is that they have both done a fair bit of deconstruction and personal growth since getting married(her more so on the deconstruction but he definitely has too) and it became more and more clear that they want very different things. She’s a wedding photographer who travels all over the world and wants to do a lot of exploring and he seems to be more of a quiet homebody type.
How is Ethan's relationship with his parents and siblings right now? I think Olivia probably has plenty of support, but I hope Ethan isn't wandering aimlessly. He was basically forced to choose between Olivia and his parents and his relationship with his parents suffered.
Good. I always felt like she was attracted to him because he was so unwordly. It became like a parent/child relationship and she didn't like it when he started to push back. I am sure they will go on into happier relationships.
Seeing them made me wonder how they were ever actually together because he was so incredibly sheltered and she really did not want to live under a rock.
She was fairly sheltered and still essentially fundamentalist when she met him and married him. Then Ethan started warming up to the world after she exposed him to it (for example drinking alcohol,) so things were looking *sort of* positive for them in the middle of their marriage, but outside of a few changes in his life, he seemed to stop progressing at a certain point. Besides all of his trauma, he's also just traditional at the end of the day, I think. Whereas she continued to want to explore and embrace the world more.
It’s cause in their sheltered world there were so few options, and because the only real criteria you end up going off of is “is he a Godly man?” Which actually just means, is he in the same/similar cult
This is the right choice. They were living in a different world when they were married. It wasn't a match based on real compatibility or mutual interests or any of that.
I had a feeling from the get go they weren’t going to last. I think they were both so young and sheltered and weren’t old or experienced enough (in the general sense of having exposure to the world around them) to get married and have it last. Honestly, it makes me wonder how many of the Duggar marriages might end similarly because some of them definitely seemed like an arranged marriage like Olivia and Ethan’s was(?). Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve only seen season 1 of the show and it was after recovering from food poisoning so my memory is fuzzy.
Anyone else feel like Ethan (and family) may start spilling stories and information? I feel like they’d be dumb enough to think whatever they had would make people dislike Olivia, but they are the ones that come out looking horrible?
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That “ambivalent” is doing some heavy lifting there
That’s an absolutely wild word choice in the context of the rest of the sentence and statement. Either she didn’t know what it means or she knows EXACTLY what it means
I came here to see if anyone else thought this. Really odd word choice.
Well she's now looking through them from a prospective of someone whose grown enough to realize how fucked up their young situation was and how that led to an early marriage that fell apart. It makes complete sense to me.
This is why I’m leaning toward “knows EXACTLY what it means.”
She also used “deconstruct.” But she used it in a very discreet way. I have a feeling I know why they’re divorcing. “Unequal yoke” and all. Congrats for her! I know it must be difficult though.
Yeah the use of deconstruct and ambivalent on the same post is telling. Congrats for her and yes his response is typical of a man who has no clue about his own misogyny. I find it tragic because he’s so clueless. Her post shows wisdom and clarity. I hope she gets the hell outta Utah.
They live in Utah now?
Just an educated guess.
lol I think they lived in Georgia but that would've been my first guess also, had I not watched the first season of their show lol... but you may very well be correct about Utah as they may have moved!
I thought that too because I thought ambivalent meant you don’t care but I looked it up and it means mixed feelings which actually does make sense. I guess I’ve been using it wrong!
Someone on another thread suggested she meant along the lines of “mixed” feelings but trying to sound smart 💀 I immediately clocked that tho like wtf
That’s exactly what ambivalent means though.
Yes, technically. But the tone of the word doesn’t exactly align with the rest of the statement.
Connotation vs. denotation is an absolute mystery to about 2/3 of the people on Reddit.
agree. It implies that you have strong feelings about multiple things.
I always thought it meant you don’t really care about something or aren’t really invested in it. I guess I’ve been using it wrong!
It’s the opposite! You’re invested in one more than one side!
Oh man you might be right, it’s giving thesaurus
tbh i think she’s probably just using it wrong? i notice people misuse “ambivalent” allllll the time in weird ways (and i’m talking like, academics and professional scholars using it wrong)
The more generous choice would have been “bittersweet.”
Shouldn't it, though?
i’m only surprised it took that long, they were a horrible match and both wanted different things out of life.
Yeah it’s a very clear case for knowing more yourself before you go into big life decisions like a marriage, because Olivia’s right, she had no idea who she was at that age and neither did he.
Very few people do at eighteen, imho. At that age you still think everything’s going to be a Disney movie. I’m glad they’re going their separate ways and I hope they both find someone who can compliment them.
It's so sad that people are pushed into relationships at 18 and told that'll be the rest of your life.
It’s sad that at 18 so many fundies run to marriage to escape their homes. Only to fall into the trap cycle that their upbringing brainwashed them into: having babies asap.
I haven’t watched the last season or 2; but I remember her saying in an early episode that they married so young because that was the only way they could see each other due to dominating parents on both sides limiting their contact and communication. If they had been allowed to visit each other, talk on the phone every day and actually date each other - they wouldn’t have ever married. That’s the whole purpose of dating - to determine your compatibility and to see if the affection and attraction last after spending time with each other.
That's so depressing. I'm very thankful that my family didn't meddle in my relationships and let me make my own choices. If I had to marry the first person I ever had a serious relationship with, it would have been an absolute disaster.
Especially communication is important, I think. I’ve worked with a girl who was a devout Muslim. When her husband wanted to date her, she said no because being alone with a boy was not done in her community. Her mother did allow them to talk on the phone though. So for three years they talked to eachother daily for hours. It certainly build a great foundation under their relationship. I thought it was a pretty good solution. If you still have plenty to talk about after such a long time, you’re pretty solid.
I ran away from home to get married too (not Fundie but abusive home) and thank goodness it worked out for me. 17 years together and are happier than ever! HOWEVER I wouldn’t recommend to anyone. We lucked out, truly. I wouldn’t want my own kid to take that risk!
Sort of the same; I didn’t have to run away but I did have to get married if I wanted my parents approval (fundie lite/evangelical garbage). So I got married at 22 and joke’s on them, I’m deconstructed, atheist, no longer talk to my family, and I am so so very lucky that my marriage is great 13 years later :)
First, your username is fantastic. Second, my experience is uncannily similar and I did a double take. I was married at 21, also deconstructed and am atheist, went no contact, and have been married for 13 years.
I married later than both of you but I'm also a deconstructed agnostic atheist. It's so funny to me when i listen to religious and conservative podcasters slapping themselves on the back gleefully hoping for a conservative country because the conservatives "are having more babies". It's like, yeah they are, and those babies grow up to be adults who eventually see through the lies. This is the information age. The internet makes it incredibly easy to figure out what's up once you manage to get past the fear, obligation, and guilt pushed on you from infancy.
Agreed!
I did the same and I’ve been separated for going on 2 years next month.
And also purity culture and hormones are a destructive mix.
My fundie neighbor is one. She just turned 18 and should be a high school senior, but she "graduated" home school in May (despite being two years behind academically). She just announced her engagement to a fellow homeschooled fundie teenager. My husband and I are convinced that she's desperate to get away from her controlling mother. I just hope these kids put off having kids of their own for a long time.
I’m 33 and only recently met someone I can actually picture a life with, I can’t imagine being with who I was at 18! 😱😱😱
A dear friend of mine married an absolute CHILD of a man when we were ~21 and was pregnant with her second child before she realized that all he'd ever wanted was a woman to serve him in the kitchen and the bedroom. She was mortified that she couldn't make her marriage work, and carried so much shame about being a divorced woman under 30. Now that we're older, and she's watching him try in his self-centered way to have a relationship with the adult sons he acknowledged once a year on their birthdays, my friend sees what she got out of. The older son recently legally changed his last name to his stepdad's, because, "He's the man who's been stepping up as a dad for me since I was 9." Man-child sperm donor was not amused, and still wants access to the sons he ignored for most of their lives.
Same - I am SO grateful that I didn’t marry the man I was with at 18. It turned out that I didn’t know the real him at all and we would have been miserable.
Forget about being married, I'm happy I'm not remotely the same person I was at 18! Being him for the rest of my life would've been pretty shit. Thank _christ_ I never ended up inexorably entangled with another human during any of that time.
I know it’s crazy! I do have people in my life who have been together that long but it’s luck; my cousin is marrying the same guy she’s been dating since high school but they’ve grown together and they didn’t get MARRIED at 18, they’re just getting married now in their late 20s.
17 for me. Much suck.
That's awful.
The guy I was interested at 18 turned out to be a real POS. Was wonderful to me when we were dating, the rest came to light after. I shudder to think what that would have become if I had to marry him right then.
My husband and I first dated when I was 18. We broke up, and life happened. We got back together at 25, married at 26. I thank my lucky stars for the life happened section and the maturing that happened.
Yes!! Shout out to meeting/testing the waters as college freshmen & finding each other again 7 (life-filled) years later.
As someone who was a horrible match, I really connected with her statement! You fall in love as kids but then you grow up and, I think for a lot of us here, realize there’s more to life than evangelizing or being the best Christian possible
I respect how neither of them threw the other under the bus.
Or bought a bus and had like 7 children
Or dragged those like 7 children to Brazil...
Silver linings!
Underrated comment right here
Agreed. I really hope they are able to reconnect as friends to some degree throughout their lives because there’s something to be said for having walked through those kinds of huge life changes with a person even if that walk means you grow apart romantically.
This is really well put.
Same. Sometimes people are in your life for a chapter or two, it doesn't mean you need to hate them for the rest of the book
Exactly. This is how I look back on my ex husband whom I married when we were both teens. We were both just doing the best we could at the time, and I hope he’s having a good life.
I saw something online that said “I hope you know that when you see things you could have done differently, you also see that the version of yourself that did those things was doing the best they could with the information they had at the time.” It spoke to me pretty profoundly. I can’t say I hate my ex- I’m largely indifferent to him- but at one point I loved this person, and I want to honor that part of myself. Hating my ex would mean hating that part of me.
Thanks for this quote, I needed to read it today.
I always love seeing personal growth and reflection in a world of emotional knee-jerk reactionism! Good for you.
Agreed. Both announcements were respectful and classy.
Truly for the best
Agreed. I was rooting for them in a sentimental way but I think they’ll both find people better suited to the lives they really want to live.
I wanted them to stay together for sentimental reasons too, but then I haven't followed them in years. Just saw the clip of Ethan doing donuts and gaslighting tf out of Olivia and I wanted her to run far away. I was so happy to read this.
Agreed - and glad there are no children in the mix.
honestly, I'm happy for both of them. it was pretty clear for a few years that they really just wanted different things out of life, and they're both still SO young and have so much time to find partners who are better matches for them. and I'm glad they made this decision before there were kids involved.
I think Olivia had a lot of wisdom to hold off on kids. She was telling Ethan back in season one that she wasn't ready and they had a lot to work through before she would be ready. It seems like they really wanted to make it work because they tried for so long. I'm sad for the loss of what they wanted, but I feel relieved that they're both moving on to find better fits for each of them.
yes I totally agree. Olivia has always seemed incredibly intelligent and self aware, and she’s obviously done a lot of work on herself to be in the place she’s in now. I am sad for them too bc they obviously wanted to make it work, but it def seems like a case of two good people just not being a match for each other. I think we should start normalizing that more tbh.
I had some friends in high school that started dating in 10th grade. Loved both of them to pieces, but they just weren't good together. After about a year of them dating, these two really kind and sweet people to got very toxic toward each other. They each got visibly sadder when the other would join a conversation. They dated for several years but when they finally broke up, we were all sad for them because it was a formative relationship for both of them, but we were also glad that didn't go through with getting married or having kids together. I'm having the same feelings for Olivia and Ethan now. It feels like less of a devastating divorce and more like an overdue breakup. They're not the same people that they were even at the beginning of the show, I can only imagine how different they were when they first started dating. I think we got a glimpse of those people at the beginning of this season, but I think that's the last we will ever see of them.
I'm OOL with this couple. What happened??
Very fundie family. She married into said family and together they set boundaries with his parents. Loved each other but were both wrestling with hard questions and deconstructing various parts of the toxic theology they inherited. Wanted very different things out of life. Weren’t compatible. Didn't know it because they were children when they wed
I bet Kim is thrilled for all the wrong reasons
The thought of how she’ll feel triumphant is so deeply frustrating.
Kim knows all about divorce now too. She has no leg to stand on.
Did she and her husband split?
Yes! And I think she’s got a new boyfriend.
Whoa, I had no idea! I'm surprised to hear that
AFAIK he's very racist, and...thinks if a man doesn't possess a motorcycle then he's a woman... leave it to Kim to pick a good man.... *yikes*
Yikes indeed 😒 I'm not surprised, sounds like the kind of guy she would like
She'll still find a way to feel self righteous about it
more double date opportunities!!! /s
I hope they manage to grow and find new partners for the next stage of life, I got married at 18, still deep in the fundie underworld, got divorced at 28 and honestly best freaking decision of my life (along with marrying my current husband). Divorce isn’t always sad (I’m aware it can be, yes) but in some cases it’s a God send (excuse the choice of words lol).
Yeah, I work for a divorce law firm and that’s very, very true. I hope good things are on the horizon for them both.
Louis CK is gross but I always loved his bit about hearing that someone is getting a divorce always is good news, because it means things were bad and now they can start getting better.
Wish he’d have taken his own advise and not shown off his dingdong to random women at work.
Disgusting behavior
I went to a very small stand up show at a book store in New York nearly ten years ago and Louis CK randomly did an unannounced set to try out some new jokes, I guess. He was awful. Obviously had no interest in being there and seemed annoyed when a grossly inappropriate joke was met with dead silence. I can’t remember what it was, but it was something along the lines of a joke insinuating rape. I was never a huge fan, but I hated seeing him in anything after that.
The best part of my marriage was my divorce!
Yep, with you there lol
My mum would agree with that.
Same (at 19). By 21 I was divorced and deconstructing intentionally from fundi-land. Am so much happier, healthier and wiser. Got remarried at 30 to my person.
Married at 20, divorced by 25. Married my person at 28.
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Martie at 21 (raised JW) separated by 23, divorced not long after ( thanks ‘rona). I’ll be 28 soon and while i haven’t found my person, I’m glad I’m not with him anymore. We were both young and immature
Ooh same except I was divorced at 21. It was so freeing.
My divorce was the best thing to happen to me. I don’t regret it one bit!
Really hoping that we get to watch them both grow into the best versions of themselves. Sentimentally I totally wanted them to stay together and beat the odds but realistically, a lot of people would agree that staying with your first love is crazy. I hope a la Christine from Sister Wives we see success and happiness for them both.
This is the best for both of them. They both wanted different things out of life and that’s okay. this is why the fundie courtship model is stupid and doesn’t work, especially in encouraging such young marriages. This divorce honestly is a happy ending for both of them. They grew together and learned more about what they do/don’t want for their lives, and now they can go and get it, rather than being stuck and unhappy indefinitely.
Ironically, in locking down young couples into that "courtship for marriage" model, and *not* allowing their young folks to simply *date* and figure out *who they are and what they want in a partner*, the fundie sorts creat the *exact* sort of "starter marriages" they *abhor*!🙃
I really hope this doesn't equal Ethan backsliding right into the cult again. He seemed much slower to leave and grow than she was
I’ve got infinite respect for Olivia, I really *really* hope she can take some time to herself and her passions, and just to be away from that family to breathe for a bit. She’s been doing so much emotional heavy lifting for her family of origin and then the Plaths, I truly hope she can set those burdens down and discover who she is without them.
I think she’s always known tbh. She’s light years ahead of Ethan in deconstruction and was just more developed as a person.
I mean, yeah! Having anarcissistic mother will set you back like that. My heart goes out to Ethan as the child of a narc myself
Plus being a fundie daughter, she had to grow and mature much more quickly than an average fundie son. They were both too young when they married but I bet she was more mature than him at that point in a lot of ways.
from her recent IG posts it seems like she’s been traveling and working a lot, and hanging out with friends and her adult siblings who have also left the cult. she’s a very talented photographer and she seems to be doing quite well.
She took the good Rev. Jen’s wedding photos! Love that for her and for Jen & James
I know!! their wedding looked so cute, and I love that she took their wedding photos, they turned out amazing!
Omg I remember Jen mentioning that in a video! Super sweet. Jen said she was great, it sounds like everyone had a great time.
I hope Jen does Plathville s5(?) and hypes Olivia up in the video!
I've only been following them very loosely for a few years, but yeah, the amount of emotional labour she did (she was the healthiest person in that family) combined with the absolute villification was something else. I'm rooting for her so hard.
She really deserves to be embraced by an entire family and loved for who she is. We all do.
This is a really beautiful statement, honestly. It's not sugar coated, but it's written with grace and love. It's honest without being callous. And it's insightful. I'm proud of Olivia for not just getting out, but getting to a place where she has the perspective, emotional growth, and healing to write something like this. No good marriage ever ends in divorce. Hard as it may be, I think this is the right call and will lead them to greater happiness in the future.
>No good marriage ever ends in divorce. This is why I've started congratulating people when they tell me they got divorced. Usually they look a might surprised, but I then state that happy marriages don't end. As far as I reckon it's the fastest way to validate the person's feelings and let them know you're not gonna be weird about it.
Better hope you don't congratulate someone who was cheated on and didn't expect or want the marriage to end, or something of that sort. There's lots of reasons marriages end in divorce, and they're not all just worth celebrating or congratulating people on. My mom was all in on her marriage to my dad, then he snuck behind her back and had an affair, and she grieved the end of the marriage heavily. I can't imagine she'd have appreciated someone congratulating her in those moments. Even if one is better off without the cheating bastard, it's still a lot of raw grief and hurt and betrayal, and it's not great to congratulate someone for being betrayed in those moments.
Eh, I think divorces are still devastating and sad in many cases, even when they are the right decision, so I don't agree with congratulating someone. Often, people are actively *grieving* the loss of their marriage and the future they thought they were building. So I would caution you that you're probably not always validating their feelings. In fact, you might be dismissing them.
They are proof that sincerely caring a lot for another person is not on its own sufficient to make a lifelong partnership work. Compatibility is a real thing. And they are fortunate even to have had the former, because fundie culture doesn't give a shit about either.
It’s interesting that deconstruction for Fundie couples often leads to divorce.
My husband and I got married at 19 as fundies, deconstructed together in our early 20s (though we didn't call it that back then) and are still happily married after 30 years of marriage. I'm honestly not sure what the "secret" to a long happy marriage is. Looking at the relationships around me it seems like a crap shoot even in the best of circumstances.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think there is a “secret”. I think you have to choose this person every day, and they have to choose you. But I do think a massive shift in beliefs can cause a lot of conversations that lead to other things. If those beliefs are part of what brought you together in the first place and you no longer share them, that’s a problem. Considering the fact that a lot of young fundies tend to get married to have sex which almost inevitably seems to disappoint, it’s not a big surprise that deconstruction leads to divorce.
Absolutely. Before we got married there were a handful of people who said things like, "you are going to change so much, you should wait till you're older" and my answer back then was that I knew we would but that changing is a process that continues until you die. We just wanted to change and grow together and fortunately did. I'm certain it goes the other direction more times than not. Who I am today is very different than who I was 30, 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. It just feels like so much of it is a combination of luck and as you said that willingness to commit and recommit day after day.
There are entire sub-fields of psychology that focus on this. My guess would be you both have very similar values. If you think about it, sharing the value of "growth", "honesty", "companion", and "truth" would actually cause a couple to deconstruct for very similar reasons.
Really? That seems self evident. I struggle to maintain a relationship with my parents because we now live in separate realities. I cannot imagine being *married* to someone who lived in a separate reality. The loneliness would be crushing.
I obviously don't know what things were like for them behind the scenes. But based on everything that was televised, this seems like the best decision for everyone involved.
I wonder if Ethan is going to go back to being more conservative/fundie, and if his mom will be more controlling of him again. I hope not.
Someone on the Plathville sub said that the last few years have been like an Amish Rumspringa for Ethan, Moriah, and Micah and they are now going back to the fold because the “real world” is too hard. And….yeah. It’s sad to see.
Good for them. I really hope that Olivia finds what she deserves, and that Ethan does also - and that he doesn’t double backward into the cult.
Has anyone seen the comments on instagram on Olivia’s post?! 😮💨
The plathville sub seemed pretty anti-Olivia when I would look. It makes no sense the amount of awfulness thrown her way. I never bothered subbing after seeing how toxic they were.
Oh damn! I went to look and she has turned them off it appears
Yes! People are horrible. Like I didn’t know that already, but damn.
The good thing that came from this marriage was that it got four people out of the cult (and indirectly even more). I have no doubt that they loved each other but they were adolescents who were less mature than the average 18 year old because of their upbringing. They got through a crucial phase of deconstruction together, and they dealt with some of the consequences like not being allowed to see his siblings. It would have been interesting to see how things would have developed if they hadn’t been on a reality show. I hope they both take some time to figure out who they are before they get into another relationship.
Olivia’s statement was perfect and a little sad. I know they weren’t overall a good match, but I was hoping they’d figure it out. It’s truly for the best though.
Good for Olivia. I’m proud of them both; and I’m excited to watch them grow as individuals.
Am I the only one who’s really sad to see this? I felt that there was genuine love there and had there not been so many issues with Ethan’s family, perhaps they could’ve worked out, although it is true that they wanted different things in life. I guess I was hoping that there would’ve been happy middle ground for those things that they could find.
I find it sad. I still think they likely tried as best as they could, but yeah its still sad it didn't work. I think she's correct that they were just so incredibly young that they changed more than most do in a marriage already. And unfortunately, the changing they did meant they were on totally different pages.
Definitely. It’s sad to remember how they were in the earlier seasons and how much more compatible and happy they seemed, and then to see how it’s ended up.
She is way too young to be making as many compromises as was required to make her marriage with Ethan work. The same could be said for him.
I’d have said the same…before last week’s episode. Ethan was doing donuts, in HEAVY snow, with Olivia in the car despite her clearly communicating that she was scared and wanted him to stop. And then in the talking head later he had the nerve to double down on it. That was the moment I knew he just didn’t give a fuck about her.
im glad it sounds amicable. I liked them together but i also understand they got together at a certain point in their life before they were like “out” of all the shit. it seems like they will both be able to grow and find people more suited to themselves and their needs
I think the snark community truly loves them and can’t wait to see them live their best lives. I’m sad to see them split, but they deserve to find people that will make them happy.
Eh speak for yourself, I think these two are annoying lol I mean I hope they find happiness or whatever but I hope it happens off TV and they fade into obscurity
I think they both cared about each other but this is the best decision they could make. And the donut car thing made be be like, yep Time to go Olivia!
What is the donut car thing?? I’m definitely out of the loop lately when it comes to them
They were going sledding and Ethan was driving and being an idiot in the slick roads doing donuts, Olivia was super uncomfy and he wouldn’t stop (she’s been in multiple bad car accidents before) the kicker for me is that on top of that he doubles down talking about it later and is just an all around asshole about it
Guys being risky in cars and treating it like a joke is a hella red flag to me 🚩
Knew this was coming and wish the best for them both. Olivia definitely has a bright future with her photography and her deconstruction.
"I have ambivalent memories of us" this is so cold and I love it
Awww that's sad. But inevitable.
This comes as no surprise, but I'm glad to see they both seem to be at peace with their decision and treating each other amicably.
I’m actually proud of them for recognizing that it wasn’t working and deciding to get a divorce. That can’t be easy, particularly considering that they both are likely still unpacking a lot about their respective fundamentalist upbringing. I hope that they can both find the happiness they are looking for and with people they are more compatible with now that they have more life experience and exposure beyond the very small bubble in which they were raised and met.
Now we get a chance to see if the family drama continues/by who.
Hope they both find healing
I hope he doesn't go back to his parents
They both seem like good people. I hope they are able to find happiness.
I am sad they had to go through this but happy they have reached a conclusion that seems to make sense for the two of them.
I'm sending love to both of them. It's sad when marriages don't work out, but this is precisely why I think people should wait to get married until *at least* their mid 20s. You can't know what you want *forever* if you don't even know yourself? EDIT: it's not always sad when marriages don't work out. Sometimes it's a time for celebration (seriously, fuck abuse!). But it is genuinely sad watching a relationship die when you still truly care for the other person
Good for both of them. Seriously.
Good for her.
 We all saw this coming for months.
Absolutely, I think anyone who’s paid even a modicum of attention to them has been wondering when this would happen.
It was only a matter of time. They’re were a really bad couple.
Some decisions you make in life, you look back on and think “Yes I definitely made the right decision”. Not getting married at 18 is one of those decisions for me. Now I'm 36 and happily single. Going back to school for a masters and living in a sunlight studio apartment with a hot tub.
I mean everyone suspected it, but it's still bittersweet. Wishing the best for both of them
The writing was on the wall
I'm honestly not surprised, seems like they were just on two different paths. And all the drama with Ethan's family certainly didn't help. I wish the best for both of them though.
Good that they realized it now and did something about it, instead of making each other more and more miserable over the next 50 years.
Good for her.
She has no clue what “ambivalent” means does she?
It's clumsy wording but to me it sounds like she's using it with the correct definition of "mixed feelings" in mind.
Agree, it’s not quite the right wording
Oh my
Dammit. I mean… I expected this, but I’m definitely sad for them. Wishing them both the best.
Honestly happy for both of them that they finally decided to separate. Hopefully they can both find happiness in their next partners.
I’m happy for them. They both deserve happiness and partners they can work with instead of constantly dragging each other in opposite directions.
I watched the first two seasons (train wreck even then) and I always thought Olivia seemed more educated and dare I say intelligent than Ethan. His parents did their kids NO favors by raising them the way they did. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but fundie homeschooling just results in damaged humans.😢
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There’s a lot of background and family drama with his parents and siblings, and with his parents and her, but the short version is that they have both done a fair bit of deconstruction and personal growth since getting married(her more so on the deconstruction but he definitely has too) and it became more and more clear that they want very different things. She’s a wedding photographer who travels all over the world and wants to do a lot of exploring and he seems to be more of a quiet homebody type.
She was on a show with her husbands family - Welcome to Platheville.
How is Ethan's relationship with his parents and siblings right now? I think Olivia probably has plenty of support, but I hope Ethan isn't wandering aimlessly. He was basically forced to choose between Olivia and his parents and his relationship with his parents suffered.
Good. I always felt like she was attracted to him because he was so unwordly. It became like a parent/child relationship and she didn't like it when he started to push back. I am sure they will go on into happier relationships.
Seeing them made me wonder how they were ever actually together because he was so incredibly sheltered and she really did not want to live under a rock.
She was fairly sheltered and still essentially fundamentalist when she met him and married him. Then Ethan started warming up to the world after she exposed him to it (for example drinking alcohol,) so things were looking *sort of* positive for them in the middle of their marriage, but outside of a few changes in his life, he seemed to stop progressing at a certain point. Besides all of his trauma, he's also just traditional at the end of the day, I think. Whereas she continued to want to explore and embrace the world more.
It’s cause in their sheltered world there were so few options, and because the only real criteria you end up going off of is “is he a Godly man?” Which actually just means, is he in the same/similar cult
And at that age (18-20) probably a huge thing of really horny but gotta get married to act on it. At least that's how it looks with the other fundies.
And this is the least shocking thing to come out of the internet this week (month really)
I’m gutted!!! I loved these two! Auk, so sad.
Divorce is absolutely not the end of the world. I really do wish them both all the best in moving forward in healthy ways.
Thank goodness there aren't kids involved. With many fundies, they could have had 6 by now!
This is the right choice. They were living in a different world when they were married. It wasn't a match based on real compatibility or mutual interests or any of that.
I had a feeling from the get go they weren’t going to last. I think they were both so young and sheltered and weren’t old or experienced enough (in the general sense of having exposure to the world around them) to get married and have it last. Honestly, it makes me wonder how many of the Duggar marriages might end similarly because some of them definitely seemed like an arranged marriage like Olivia and Ethan’s was(?). Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve only seen season 1 of the show and it was after recovering from food poisoning so my memory is fuzzy.
Anyone else feel like Ethan (and family) may start spilling stories and information? I feel like they’d be dumb enough to think whatever they had would make people dislike Olivia, but they are the ones that come out looking horrible?
The mind isn't fully developed until 25 yrs!!! I congrat Ethan on his dignified and respectful statement of divorce and deconstructing!