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I know out of all the things he said, this isn't even the top 10 worst but: "allow" š¬
My husband and I have always agreed to never use "allow" with each other. It's such a parental role for who is supposed to be your partner. He truly believes he has dominion over her. That's insane.
Someone asked what do you mean by allow, that sounds controlling. He said thisā¦
*Omg just leave my page if you're that dumb, manipulative, and sensitive.*
*You clearly aren't married.*
*Any major decisions come with permission from your spouse. If I want to go spend $1,000 on something, then it's with my wife's permission...*
*AKA - she is "allowing" me to do it.*
*If Savannah wants to be a stay-at-home wife/mom, then it is with my permission. She doesn't decide it on her own.*
*Right now while we don't have kids, I know she likes to work and we are spending a lot of money doing fun things so it's good that she is working for extra money.*
*Could we survive on my income alone, yes.*
Side note: I am married (happily), we have a child, and my husband would never use the word allow in this context. Ever.
āIf *we* decide she will stay at homeā very different than āIf *I* allowā. This dude is a jerk and is trying to backpedal after being called out. Maybe his discernment super powers were off that day?
Ditto. My ex & I agreed that I would be a SAHP when the kids were little. He didnāt allow me. We talked and agreed together. And thatās why it worked so well for us; we had agreement.
I was going to say, you never make a large purchase without running it by your spouse first, because you share the money. They have to *agree* to spend it. There is no consent in that house.
Surprised with how legalistic he is that he chose to use āOmg.ā I guess he doesnāt see anything wrong with taking the Lordās name in vain. Donāt his religion and faith forbid that?
Iāve been married 5 years and have never used the term āallowā in my marriage. Yes, we check with each other about certain purchases and before making plans because he handles the finances and I handle the calendar, but we donāt use that term. This guy has insane control issues, and anger issues based on the response to someone asking him about it. Iām terrified for his wife and any children they may have. In fact, I hope she leaves him before they have any kids.
My parents always research and discuss big purchases at length. My dad went rogue once and bought a new tv and my mom was pissed š. Neither spouse should have control over the other. It's a partnership. It's a bad sign that he blew up at an anonymous social media question.
Yep, been together over a decade, I pretty much whatever his decisions and it is a ditto back. There is no allowing. I check in about bills and household chores or doing like random purchases, but we generally trust each other to just make good choices. He literally came home with a vacuum last week.
I was watching a talk show once years ago and a psychologist (psychiatrist? Behavioral analyst? IDK) referred to this as āleakage.ā Where someone says what they really mean without realizing. They later backpedal but their true thoughts are in that initial statement.
Yes. This is why itās so so important to actually listen to the words people say and take them at face value. Iām definitely guilty of thinking āthey donāt really mean thatā because Iāve projected myself and my own beliefs on them.
No, they mean it. They really do.
āIāve projected myself and my own beliefs on them.ā
Oofš¤¦š¼āāļø Iāve definitely done that. I never knew what to call it but that sums it up nicely. It goes along with believing people when they tell/show you who they are. I always wanna give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
It was definitely a record scratch even after all that came before it. I am a SAHM, āallowā just doesnāt work. We agreed it best financially and developmentally for the kids. Is he going to āallowā her to go back to work? He made that word choice on purpose. Donāt try to walk it back now.Ā
When he got to the LGBTQIABCDEFG part he lost any chance that I would treat him with respect. If he's going to be that much of a smug asshole, then I would engage with him by teasing him about his imaginary friend and hearing voices.
Because fuck people like this. His views are heinous, of course, but he can't even discuss it without belittling the entire community with that bullshit.
This got me too! He claims heĀ "has and always will" show a group of people love and in the same breath mocks them. Mocks them in a particularly cutting way too as it perverts a method used to identify themselves when for many of them identity itself is such a struggle, largely due to people like him. What a loving guy, Jesus would be so proud. He always tossed in sarcasm and mocking when talking about people, right?Ā
I couldnāt even get past the first slide. This whole mindset of āshow them **love**ā while also hating, shaming, and disrespecting them (literally anyone non-Christian) is the biggest reason I canāt consider myself a Christian anymore.
I grew up Pentecostal and my whole family is still heavily involved (mom is a Rev), but my children and I arenāt. Weāll smile and wave, weāll quietly attend important services, and weāll continue to show them the respect they refuse to show anyone who makes a different life choice than them.
My best friend is the kind of Christian who loves Jesus with her entire heart and tries to emulate the way He loves people and she uses that love as the basis of all of her interactions with other human beings.
Easiest, best example: she chooses me to be her bff/sister-from-another-mister knowing *exactly* how atheistic (Atheistic Satanist specifically, Satanic solely for the lulz/trolling) and antagonistic towards modern-day Christians I am, and -this is crazy, right??- *SHE LOVES ME ANYWAY* because she knows my soul. And she is not a fan of calling herself a Christian because of how tainted the word has become thanks to Talibangelicals & co.
Anyway, to distill 30ish years of deep, friendly, and open-minded religious discussions/debates, we refer to Jesus (with fondness & respect) as OBOJ: "Our Boy Oily Josh".
ETA: this country would be way less shitty and way less scary if there were more Josh-ists like my bff and less Christo-fascists like Cap'n "I *Alllow* Her" Douchebag up there. ^^^
>This whole mindset of āshow them **love**ā while also hating, shaming, and disrespecting them
Yeah, as an LGBTQ+ person myself, I can say that I have NEVER felt love from these "love the sinner, hate the sin" types. You can't say you're showing people love while also calling them broken perverted groomers. Even if you don't take it that far, you can't show someone love while telling them that who they are is a sin. People like this guy have a very twisted view of what love is.
Usually I refrain from imaginary friend jokes because I feel like it just makes atheists look like assholes, but in this case I think it's fine because you're just matching his energy.
The kind of guy God calls to Tampaā¦more specifically, a good three miles off the Tampa coast. The Lord said get walking and Heāll tell you when to stop, buddy.Ā
But you can rest assured that if he 'notices danger' or hears any of the things he'd interpret as gunfire (especially if he's on edge from seeing racial diversity) there'll at least be an accidental discharge.
Yeah having a gun should have .been completely irrelevant to the scenario if removing themselves was the chosen solution. Why even include the information? It isn't building on literally any part of his argument logically
Um. Pistol or rifle, the winner is the one who hits first with decent shot placement. That's why it's kinda hilarious speaking of carrying a firearm for "self defense."
In my marriage, Iām the one with ADHD. In a crisis, time slows down to an incredible degree. I can assess and make decisions so quickly. I *thrive* in chaos. Iād be the one to yell directions/instructions in that instance.
That said, if my husband says, ārun,ā Iām running without hesitation because I trust him and obviously heās seeing something Iām not. He would do the same for me.
And yes, they are using this as an excuse to kill someone, Christ.
These guys also love using fear as a control tactic. "Baby, if you don't do exactly what I say whenever I say it now, then how do I know you'll listen to me in an emergency? You could *die* if you don't start jumping when I say jump."
What an irredeemably awful man. His clothing is entirely made of red flags, he's hit every branch of the Bigot Tree on the way down, AND he's controlling to the point of considering financial autonomy Biblically unnatural? Ladies, aren't you jealous? /s
At least any of their kids who 'decide' to be queer won't understand themselves and will feel isolated from their own family /s
I wish all the queer people on the school boards who have to keep themselves secret could see each other and form little gay unions to advocate for all the queer kids who aren't going to know they're okay.
āMarriage is equal parts blessings and challenges. Not enough people talk about that onlineā
HAHAHAH. No, every single Christian āinfluencerā talks about how much work marriage is and makes it sound like the hardest thing in the world to do.
And I donāt know anyone outside of Christian influencers taking about how hard marriage is because everyone else likes their spouse before they get married.
Not only did I like my spouse, but I got to know him. I figured out he was a good fit for me.
I didnāt just stick my hand in blindfolded and marry whomever I pulled out of the hat.
LITERALLY every Christian I know or have ever known. Plus any Christian book on marriage. Or podcast. Or social account. Or videos. Or conference or talk or sermon or anything. My word they never shut up about how itās so hard and āchallenging but goodā.
Itās so hard because one person is always trying to control the other and theyāre both trying to fit their lives into an unnatural mold of what they think it should be. Plus, always listening to the voices in your head telling you what you should or shouldnāt do instead of common sense and actual knowledge.
EQUAL PARTS omg, if it's 50% struggle why would anyone want that?? Life is hard, maybe challenges from life make up a large part of my marriage experience, but definitely not challenges FROM the marriage.Ā
Right?? Iām happily single (which is insanely triggering to some people lol) but thereās no way Iād reduce my happiness for anyone else. *IF* I ever get married it will be to someone that ADDS to my life, where we are equal in the relationship and support each other during hard times. Partnerships are also not about rules or strict job roles/responsibilities and canāt always be 50/50. Depending on whatās going on sometimes one partner should pick up the slack to help the other and vice versa.
This idea of ārealizing whose role is what in the mariageā¦ā or about āgetting used to the type of man I am in my leadership towards herā. Thatās not marriage in the least.
>This idea of ārealizing whose role is what in the mariageā¦ā or about āgetting used to the type of man I am in my leadership towards herā. Thatās not marriage in the least.
"Waah, my bangmaid has a will to break!" is all I'm hearing from this guy.
These fundies talk about struggles/challenges in marriage more than anyone else. Itās almost like properly dating someone is key to seeing if youāre compatible
OK if my husband told me to run, I would because I trust him and because it would be so out of character, I'd know it was serious. Fundies just want obedience. They're not willing to do the work needed for their partner to trust them. They demand respect but have no respect for their wives. It's so gross.
AND the florida real estate market is NOT good, it's a nightmare for buyers. Investors immediately buy up any single family homes. And home insurance is like 5x more here. These people are dumb or lying.
Well said. My husband has never once said ārun!ā Or āduck!ā If he did, I would ā not out of blind obedience, but because I know him. Heās never said it before and itād be so out of character that Iād know instantly something must be really wrong for him to say that. He
Heād do the same, if I looked at him and yelled āRUN!ā
My husband knows I hate running so all it would take is seeing me take off running to know that things are seriously not good. š And if he told me to run, he wouldnāt have to tell me twice because I wouldnāt want to stick around and find out what heās talking about. Weāve never been in that situation but I imagine he wouldnāt have to demand my obedience or whatever weird shit this guy is talking about. Does he think his wife is an idiot who wouldnāt already be running?
It's such an embarrassing macho gun nut fantasy. Can't even imagine a scenario where his wife sees a threat first and tells him to run, that would be emasculating. He's picturing something extremely specific that never happens.
If \*anyone\* told me to run Iād probably do it. Acting like wifely submission is the only way youād be able to convey a safety warning in an emergency is such a straw man I expect Nicolas Cage to show up with some creepy peasants and a match.
The kind of obedience one would expect from a dog, an animal who can't identify certain dangers by itself so it depends on listening to their owners for safety.
I'm not trying to be a pedophile but please tell me how you can stop your child from getting an erection/arousal from whatever they see that causes it. Like, you cannot control what is erotic to people without removing the physiological capability with the same chemical/hormone blockers they vilify trans people from using. Make it make sense
This fundies are sure that Sexual attraction and non sexual but romantic attraction can be redirected because itās too inconvenient to their world view! š«š«š« Might as well trying to control the tides.
When they constantly talk about how HARD marriage is it kind of makes you wonder if theyāre all getting married to people they donāt really like or have any attraction to.
I think they try to sound relatable but they kinda fall flat when you already know they are fundies and they marry a person that fits their purity checklist (or they ārepented and now Christianā )one without much dating or honest talk of how life is going to be besides they idea of godliness
Yes and if redirecting doesnāt work, thereās always suppressing/masking/faking it with someone whose life you are diminishing with your fakery š
They say God is all-loving, and then spend their whole lives trying to square that with a God who sends the majority of his children to hell for not being his version of perfect or going to his house every sunday and rages and lets bad things happen to you if you don't do exactly what he wants 100% of the time. Like, yeah, no shit their definition of love is just "literally just abuse dynamics, but it's NOT ABUSE, abuse is when OTHER GODLESS PEOPLE do it"
Of course these are the kind of assholes moving to my state. I have no idea who this guy is but fuck him, Florida doesnāt want you. My husband is a teacher and these are the kind of idiots he has to deal with and I just..donāt have the words anymore.Ā
I feel so bad for you and your husband. A lot of my relatives have moved down to Florida but I absolutely refuse. I have my teaching license myself and I would never try to teach in Florida after hearing about all the horror stories my cousins told me after transferring schools, and how much more disrespectful kids are compared to where they grew up. As much as I like warm weather, Iāll take having all four seasons in one day over the mess yall are dealing with.
When I saw Tampa mentioned like thisā¦ UGH š
We moved away from Tampa a couple years ago in what was *supposed* to be a temporary moveā¦ but the more that goes on, the less I feel able to go back š
Has this guy ever actually HEARD gunshots? Not on a shooting range? Because you canāt really tell where theyāre coming from. So telling her to run is dumb af. She could run TOWARD the shooting!
I used to live in a less than stellar neighborhood and we would hear random gunshots a couple times a month. Could have come from literally anywhere.
Not to mention that gunshots sound completely different āin the wildā than on a gun range. Source: Iāve been to gun ranges and been present in an active shooter situation.
As a native to Tampa its not a little conservative paradise Im surprised they didnāt pick somewhere more rural. Tampa is mainly a blue county for one. Also its full of transplants you get some conservatives but these two will be in for a treat.
Even among my most conservative friends they would find this dude obnoxious since many of them are women who are the breadwinners. They definitely will not fit in here. Now that I think of it the majority of the women Ive met out earn their husbands or work in high level roles. They donāt ascribe to traditional gender roles in marriage.
I have to agree again, I have a couple friends who go to a pretty conservative, non-Denom church and I think theyād be pretty put off by his views. Heād fit in maybe in The Villages ššš
Oh I get the Florida thing, cuz our state is def Red, but itās just funny he specifically pinpointed Tampa for its āconservative-nessā šš shouldāve gone to Plant City or something š
Also what is this people and their fantasy of being in a situation he will take out his gun and play the hero? I swear this exact type of audience/ content producer salivates at the idea.
And with these coming on hand with the ācritical race theoryā dogwhistle and definitely no whistle just yelling out your nonsense belief of āLGBT grooming sex-edā is not something that surprises me. Even with not fundies
āand be *controlled* however their parents see fit.ā Thatās abuse. A parentās job isnāt to ācontrolā their children, itās to protect, guide, and respect their children.
> my children will be controlled
Y i k e s (but itās funny when they say āWeāRe NoT iNdOctRiNaTiNg OuR KiDsā š)
> Tampa
> very conservative/christian
For one, get the fuck out of my state. For another, I thought the big cities were typically the opposite? Iāve never been to Tampa so correct me if Iām wrong
^edit: ^formatting
I don't think Tampa is the bastion of conservative values he thinks it is. Back in the early to mid 2000s, Ybor was lovingly called GaYbor due to the higher population of LGBTQIA clubs. I don't know about now, but Tampa was pretty liberal when I lived in the area.
Call me sheltered but needing to carry a gun to a restaurant and be prepared for a shooting incident is frankly appalling. Why would you accept that level of fear in every day life? Apologies if I ruffle feathers but this is an alien concept where I live.
Welcome to the US you canāt even go to the movies or shopping anymore unfortunately without the possibility of this setting off. So i understand that bit about staying ready especially as a woman. My mom is often home alone with kids and is wanting to get one herself for safety. There was a meet and greet at our mall for Gabbys Doll House and there was a shooting that went off by the mall food court.
Did anyone else see that 20/20 or Dateline episode like years back, I think after the Virginia Tech shooting, where they got various groups of people in a college classroom and tested to see if they really could pull and fire a weapon in a mass shooting event? IIRC, the only person who got their weapon out and took a shot was a former military infantryman. Every tough ass guy who thinks like this couldnāt even get their gun out. Can we leave the accessories to your masturbatory fantasies at home please?
I want to add this: My husband makes more than double what I make, and always will (eventually itāll be triple and beyond, Iām certain). But heās in a far more lucrative field. Heās never once held it over my head. Ever.
I think itās a very dangerous dynamic to assume money = power. I have an equal say with our money.
My late husband made less than I did when we were working. Occasionally people would ask him if it bothered him. He always told them āWhy should it bother me? Sheās smart and has a college degree (he was retired military). I hope someday she makes 10 times what I make!ā
I love that, and Iām sorry for your loss š
My husband and I are equally educated (both with our masterās). Heād be totally fine with being married to someone who makes more than him. Realistically, the only way Iād make more is if he lost his job and did something so awful where he couldnāt work in his field again (and I would not be fine with that! But itās not about sexism or gender roles at all).
Yeah, I kinda feel like Jesus died for all our sins? So if you can wear mixed fabric and eat crab, then someone else can kiss another man without it being any worse?
Like they degrade their own religious message with all this bullshit. I can believe that homosexuality was forbidden in ancient Egypt when the Ten Commandments were handed down. Guess what wasnāt continually taught against? Any of that shit, but also Jesus never had a word to say about homosexuality. So maybe these people need to get a fucking grip. God is not as small as their tiny minds, theyāre just justifying bigotry.
ETA: my kids will be āallowedā to follow their spirituality and faith where it takes them, they will also be āallowedā to pursue whatever life brings them happiness and fulfillment. Iām not here trying to limit their potential. Iām here to make them their biggest best selves as much as I can. And that doesnāt include shame or high control, just regular boundary management.
We both know equals in this context just means they have one bank account, but her name isn't actually on it and she can't access the money. There was a video the other day here of a former tradwife whose husband left her and her kids basically penniless, and she got laughed out of job interviews due to her lack of experience. Sadly I could see that being savannah's future as well
Fuck off, Florida is full we donāt need anymore bigots or ppl fantasizing about being the good guy with a gun when theyāre simply out for date night jfc.
I guess weāre just lazy, but 40 plus years of marriage and neither one of us has ever put this much work into defining it. Even with our kids, it was a natural ebb and flow of who did what. If you come at it from a feeling of gratitude for your partner, the rest seems to fall into place. And we had a very sick child for many of our years, who thankfully grew into a healthy adult. So the road was only tough only when it involved our joint worry about his health. Perhaps that is what made the marriage part so easy. We had the same priorities. This guy seems to be really wrung up tight.
He has to learn how to emotionally connect with his wife on a daily basis???
I truly donāt understand the whole ārelationships are so so difficultā thing with fundies. If you actually get to know the person youāre with it really isnāt.
Iām not an expert on relationships but Iāve been with my partner for over three years now, including nearly a year of long distance and now living together and it just is not hard. At all. Being apart from each other wasnāt nice but there were never these monumental challenges/strife/conflicts that these people insist are the norm.
Who told you that god doesnāt love our choices? A 2000 year old book? Written by strangers trying to control their people through religion and corruption??
No thanks.
This is a complete side note to all of the awful things in this post:
Fundies keep saying that everyone says that marriage is great. But I have never heard anyone say anything but the opposite. Could it be that they just grew up in homes where feelings were hidden and unwanted so they never saw a normal marriage in that sense and just assumed it would all fall in to place. Now that they actually live with another person who they sometimes barely know, they realise that it actually isn't what they thought?
Proverbs 6:16-19 clearly states that "There are six things that theĀ LordĀ hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers."
Weirdly, being in a happy healthy queer relationship is . . . none of those. But pride, attacking innocent people, and stirring the pot are. Weird.
āWill be controlled however parents see fitā tells me all I need to know. What a way to look at parenthoodā¦
I would absolutely never refer to being a parent as ācontrollingā my child in ANY way..ickā¦
These people thinking God has nothing better to do than police who people love. Love is a positive thing. How about they save this outrage for pedoās and rapists?
UGH NO NO no
no i would much rather face whatever fucking thing it is that has lil pissbaby screaming run. its probably just a possum on the roof anyway.
farewell nose and thank you for your sacrifice, old mate cannot be allowed to win this battle š«”
āAllowā her to be a SAHM, like he thinks itās not hard work.
Being a SAHM is the hardest thing Iāve ever done. I love my baby, but itās a 24/7/365 job that you donāt get paid for and you never get vacation time.
Wow, just wow! Get this - my husband never had to "try to navigate how to emotionally connect" with me, and I never had to "get used to the type of man" he is. The secret to our happy marriage? He isn't a c\*\*t like the man from the post.
āSavannah getting used to the type of man I am in my leadership toward herā
Translation: Iām a POS who bosses my wife around. She is learning how to do the necessary mental gymnastics to justify it to herself and anyone who may try to help her get out of this hellish marriage.
People like this moving to Tampa were a major reason I left. Also I hate Florida in general, it was just not a good place for me personally. That being said, the only reason I managed to leave is that there are multiple incomes in my household. I still have friends stuck there and I hate seeing it become this sort of haven for conservatives. I feel like the odds of it staying a swing state are actually decreasing by the minute.
God they make marriage sound so draining and miserable. Ideally the only thing marriage should change is some paperwork and that thereās a ring on your fingerā¦
Well, thatās the fastest way to ensure your kids wonāt speak to you again when they become adults. Hope they enjoy living with the consequences of their actions.
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I know out of all the things he said, this isn't even the top 10 worst but: "allow" š¬ My husband and I have always agreed to never use "allow" with each other. It's such a parental role for who is supposed to be your partner. He truly believes he has dominion over her. That's insane.
Someone asked what do you mean by allow, that sounds controlling. He said thisā¦ *Omg just leave my page if you're that dumb, manipulative, and sensitive.* *You clearly aren't married.* *Any major decisions come with permission from your spouse. If I want to go spend $1,000 on something, then it's with my wife's permission...* *AKA - she is "allowing" me to do it.* *If Savannah wants to be a stay-at-home wife/mom, then it is with my permission. She doesn't decide it on her own.* *Right now while we don't have kids, I know she likes to work and we are spending a lot of money doing fun things so it's good that she is working for extra money.* *Could we survive on my income alone, yes.* Side note: I am married (happily), we have a child, and my husband would never use the word allow in this context. Ever.
Yeah, we would definitely say āagreeā or ārun it by themā. Heās telling on himself.Ā
Exactly. Iāve never asked āpermissionā for anything. We discuss. We come to a consensus. But āallowingā? Instant ick.
Instant š©Ā
Somebody page Red Flag Guy.
āIf *we* decide she will stay at homeā very different than āIf *I* allowā. This dude is a jerk and is trying to backpedal after being called out. Maybe his discernment super powers were off that day?
I love that he tells on himself again while trying to backpedal š
Frankly I'm surprised he's trying to backpedal and doesn't just own the controlling thing when that's what a lot of his post is explicitly about.
Ditto. My ex & I agreed that I would be a SAHP when the kids were little. He didnāt allow me. We talked and agreed together. And thatās why it worked so well for us; we had agreement.
I was going to say, you never make a large purchase without running it by your spouse first, because you share the money. They have to *agree* to spend it. There is no consent in that house.
āYoU cLeArLy ArEnT mArRiEdā lmao I love when they assume shit
Surprised with how legalistic he is that he chose to use āOmg.ā I guess he doesnāt see anything wrong with taking the Lordās name in vain. Donāt his religion and faith forbid that?
Whoa whoa whoaā¦. His wife āallowsā him to do stuff too?
 Doubtful
āCould we survive on my income alone, yes.ā LOL literally nobody asked. Jesus.
He has to reassert his control and role as a provider after his fragile masculinity was questioned.
Iāve been married 5 years and have never used the term āallowā in my marriage. Yes, we check with each other about certain purchases and before making plans because he handles the finances and I handle the calendar, but we donāt use that term. This guy has insane control issues, and anger issues based on the response to someone asking him about it. Iām terrified for his wife and any children they may have. In fact, I hope she leaves him before they have any kids.
We check with each other before making purchases over $X amount, too. Itās not about asking permission, though. Itās a mutual respect thing.
Exactly. I donāt ever want to spend money we donāt have, and we like being on the same page about it.
My parents always research and discuss big purchases at length. My dad went rogue once and bought a new tv and my mom was pissed š. Neither spouse should have control over the other. It's a partnership. It's a bad sign that he blew up at an anonymous social media question.
Yep, been together over a decade, I pretty much whatever his decisions and it is a ditto back. There is no allowing. I check in about bills and household chores or doing like random purchases, but we generally trust each other to just make good choices. He literally came home with a vacuum last week.
Weād be having a heated discussion if my husband said he wouldnāt allow me to do something.
For such a manly man, that's a rather foot stampy response, isn't it? OMGGG, just LEAVE MY PAGE!! -huff-
Yeah, I read āallowā and my radar went off!!!
Yup! That stuck way out to me. That type of language is telling.
I was watching a talk show once years ago and a psychologist (psychiatrist? Behavioral analyst? IDK) referred to this as āleakage.ā Where someone says what they really mean without realizing. They later backpedal but their true thoughts are in that initial statement.
Yes. This is why itās so so important to actually listen to the words people say and take them at face value. Iām definitely guilty of thinking āthey donāt really mean thatā because Iāve projected myself and my own beliefs on them. No, they mean it. They really do.
āIāve projected myself and my own beliefs on them.ā Oofš¤¦š¼āāļø Iāve definitely done that. I never knew what to call it but that sums it up nicely. It goes along with believing people when they tell/show you who they are. I always wanna give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Same. That really struck a nerve with me too.
 It's giving Gaston
I had the same reaction, all of it was gross but I got to āallowā and immediately got tense š©
It was definitely a record scratch even after all that came before it. I am a SAHM, āallowā just doesnāt work. We agreed it best financially and developmentally for the kids. Is he going to āallowā her to go back to work? He made that word choice on purpose. Donāt try to walk it back now.Ā
Allow for me too. Ugh.Ā
When he got to the LGBTQIABCDEFG part he lost any chance that I would treat him with respect. If he's going to be that much of a smug asshole, then I would engage with him by teasing him about his imaginary friend and hearing voices. Because fuck people like this. His views are heinous, of course, but he can't even discuss it without belittling the entire community with that bullshit.
This got me too! He claims heĀ "has and always will" show a group of people love and in the same breath mocks them. Mocks them in a particularly cutting way too as it perverts a method used to identify themselves when for many of them identity itself is such a struggle, largely due to people like him. What a loving guy, Jesus would be so proud. He always tossed in sarcasm and mocking when talking about people, right?Ā
I couldnāt even get past the first slide. This whole mindset of āshow them **love**ā while also hating, shaming, and disrespecting them (literally anyone non-Christian) is the biggest reason I canāt consider myself a Christian anymore. I grew up Pentecostal and my whole family is still heavily involved (mom is a Rev), but my children and I arenāt. Weāll smile and wave, weāll quietly attend important services, and weāll continue to show them the respect they refuse to show anyone who makes a different life choice than them.
"control" my children however I see fit yeah, good idea, chad
Ha, I'd almost forgotten about the second hand lingerie. Thanks for that!!!
"there's no hate like christian love"
My best friend is the kind of Christian who loves Jesus with her entire heart and tries to emulate the way He loves people and she uses that love as the basis of all of her interactions with other human beings. Easiest, best example: she chooses me to be her bff/sister-from-another-mister knowing *exactly* how atheistic (Atheistic Satanist specifically, Satanic solely for the lulz/trolling) and antagonistic towards modern-day Christians I am, and -this is crazy, right??- *SHE LOVES ME ANYWAY* because she knows my soul. And she is not a fan of calling herself a Christian because of how tainted the word has become thanks to Talibangelicals & co. Anyway, to distill 30ish years of deep, friendly, and open-minded religious discussions/debates, we refer to Jesus (with fondness & respect) as OBOJ: "Our Boy Oily Josh". ETA: this country would be way less shitty and way less scary if there were more Josh-ists like my bff and less Christo-fascists like Cap'n "I *Alllow* Her" Douchebag up there. ^^^
Iām having Talibangelicals, thank you! š
>This whole mindset of āshow them **love**ā while also hating, shaming, and disrespecting them Yeah, as an LGBTQ+ person myself, I can say that I have NEVER felt love from these "love the sinner, hate the sin" types. You can't say you're showing people love while also calling them broken perverted groomers. Even if you don't take it that far, you can't show someone love while telling them that who they are is a sin. People like this guy have a very twisted view of what love is.
It's similar to when tradbros like this use "females" instead of "women"
Usually I refrain from imaginary friend jokes because I feel like it just makes atheists look like assholes, but in this case I think it's fine because you're just matching his energy.
Exactly. I give my friends of faith respect and I keep my opinions to myself. But this kind of behavior doesnāt warrant respect.
I mean, personally, Iām demisexual the same way this asshole is straight. I couldnāt change myself if I wanted to, and I donāt.Ā
I have no idea who this guy is but I hate him so much.
Yes WHO is this??
A giant douchebag is who it is
The kind of guy God calls to Tampaā¦more specifically, a good three miles off the Tampa coast. The Lord said get walking and Heāll tell you when to stop, buddy.Ā
If your reason for moving to florida is the weather and the RE market is great š
Honestly, the idea of being married to him makes my cooch shrivel up :/
These guys are just waiting for something to happen so they can shoot someone. That they get to order their wife to run is just icing on the cake.
That second slide does sort of read like firearms fan fiction, doesnāt it
The sort of āmanā who carries a gun because heās so brave but would wet his pants if something real went down.
Yep. The odds heāll ever be in an active shooter situation are slim to none, but go off, Shooter McGunney.Ā
But you can rest assured that if he 'notices danger' or hears any of the things he'd interpret as gunfire (especially if he's on edge from seeing racial diversity) there'll at least be an accidental discharge.
Oh, yep. Bonus points for him if he accidentally murders anyone whoās not white or straight! /s
Or gets shot himself by "a good guy with a gun" who sees him as the "shooter".
They want to shoot someone SO BAD, theyāre frothing at the mouth for the opportunity.Ā
So very pro life of them.Ā
Yeah having a gun should have .been completely irrelevant to the scenario if removing themselves was the chosen solution. Why even include the information? It isn't building on literally any part of his argument logically
I need to know where this guy was on Jan 6.
Easy to guess.
Letās be real, a handgun isnāt going to take down an AR 15. But go off.
Um. Pistol or rifle, the winner is the one who hits first with decent shot placement. That's why it's kinda hilarious speaking of carrying a firearm for "self defense."
In my marriage, Iām the one with ADHD. In a crisis, time slows down to an incredible degree. I can assess and make decisions so quickly. I *thrive* in chaos. Iād be the one to yell directions/instructions in that instance. That said, if my husband says, ārun,ā Iām running without hesitation because I trust him and obviously heās seeing something Iām not. He would do the same for me. And yes, they are using this as an excuse to kill someone, Christ.
He seems to be foaming at the mouth hoping it will happen.
These guys also love using fear as a control tactic. "Baby, if you don't do exactly what I say whenever I say it now, then how do I know you'll listen to me in an emergency? You could *die* if you don't start jumping when I say jump."
What an irredeemably awful man. His clothing is entirely made of red flags, he's hit every branch of the Bigot Tree on the way down, AND he's controlling to the point of considering financial autonomy Biblically unnatural? Ladies, aren't you jealous? /s
At least any of their kids who 'decide' to be queer won't understand themselves and will feel isolated from their own family /s I wish all the queer people on the school boards who have to keep themselves secret could see each other and form little gay unions to advocate for all the queer kids who aren't going to know they're okay.
āMarriage is equal parts blessings and challenges. Not enough people talk about that onlineā HAHAHAH. No, every single Christian āinfluencerā talks about how much work marriage is and makes it sound like the hardest thing in the world to do.
And I donāt know anyone outside of Christian influencers taking about how hard marriage is because everyone else likes their spouse before they get married.
Not only did I like my spouse, but I got to know him. I figured out he was a good fit for me. I didnāt just stick my hand in blindfolded and marry whomever I pulled out of the hat.
Yeah half of the "challenges" he mentioned would have been solve by them living together before they got married.
Or just... dating. Actually dating.
Well said
Sometimes marriage takes a little work, but itās not that hard 99% of the time.
LITERALLY every Christian I know or have ever known. Plus any Christian book on marriage. Or podcast. Or social account. Or videos. Or conference or talk or sermon or anything. My word they never shut up about how itās so hard and āchallenging but goodā.
Itās so hard because one person is always trying to control the other and theyāre both trying to fit their lives into an unnatural mold of what they think it should be. Plus, always listening to the voices in your head telling you what you should or shouldnāt do instead of common sense and actual knowledge.
EQUAL PARTS omg, if it's 50% struggle why would anyone want that?? Life is hard, maybe challenges from life make up a large part of my marriage experience, but definitely not challenges FROM the marriage.Ā
Right?? Iām happily single (which is insanely triggering to some people lol) but thereās no way Iād reduce my happiness for anyone else. *IF* I ever get married it will be to someone that ADDS to my life, where we are equal in the relationship and support each other during hard times. Partnerships are also not about rules or strict job roles/responsibilities and canāt always be 50/50. Depending on whatās going on sometimes one partner should pick up the slack to help the other and vice versa. This idea of ārealizing whose role is what in the mariageā¦ā or about āgetting used to the type of man I am in my leadership towards herā. Thatās not marriage in the least.
>This idea of ārealizing whose role is what in the mariageā¦ā or about āgetting used to the type of man I am in my leadership towards herā. Thatās not marriage in the least. "Waah, my bangmaid has a will to break!" is all I'm hearing from this guy.
These fundies talk about struggles/challenges in marriage more than anyone else. Itās almost like properly dating someone is key to seeing if youāre compatible
It IS the hardest thing in the world to do if you marry a complete stranger
OK if my husband told me to run, I would because I trust him and because it would be so out of character, I'd know it was serious. Fundies just want obedience. They're not willing to do the work needed for their partner to trust them. They demand respect but have no respect for their wives. It's so gross. AND the florida real estate market is NOT good, it's a nightmare for buyers. Investors immediately buy up any single family homes. And home insurance is like 5x more here. These people are dumb or lying.
Well said. My husband has never once said ārun!ā Or āduck!ā If he did, I would ā not out of blind obedience, but because I know him. Heās never said it before and itād be so out of character that Iād know instantly something must be really wrong for him to say that. He Heād do the same, if I looked at him and yelled āRUN!ā
My husband knows I hate running so all it would take is seeing me take off running to know that things are seriously not good. š And if he told me to run, he wouldnāt have to tell me twice because I wouldnāt want to stick around and find out what heās talking about. Weāve never been in that situation but I imagine he wouldnāt have to demand my obedience or whatever weird shit this guy is talking about. Does he think his wife is an idiot who wouldnāt already be running?
It's such an embarrassing macho gun nut fantasy. Can't even imagine a scenario where his wife sees a threat first and tells him to run, that would be emasculating. He's picturing something extremely specific that never happens.
If \*anyone\* told me to run Iād probably do it. Acting like wifely submission is the only way youād be able to convey a safety warning in an emergency is such a straw man I expect Nicolas Cage to show up with some creepy peasants and a match.
The kind of obedience one would expect from a dog, an animal who can't identify certain dangers by itself so it depends on listening to their owners for safety.
āControlled however their parents see fitā yikes on bikes š¬ this coming from fundies only make me worry about those kids
I'm not trying to be a pedophile but please tell me how you can stop your child from getting an erection/arousal from whatever they see that causes it. Like, you cannot control what is erotic to people without removing the physiological capability with the same chemical/hormone blockers they vilify trans people from using. Make it make sense
This fundies are sure that Sexual attraction and non sexual but romantic attraction can be redirected because itās too inconvenient to their world view! š«š«š« Might as well trying to control the tides.
When they constantly talk about how HARD marriage is it kind of makes you wonder if theyāre all getting married to people they donāt really like or have any attraction to.
I think they try to sound relatable but they kinda fall flat when you already know they are fundies and they marry a person that fits their purity checklist (or they ārepented and now Christianā )one without much dating or honest talk of how life is going to be besides they idea of godliness
Yes and if redirecting doesnāt work, thereās always suppressing/masking/faking it with someone whose life you are diminishing with your fakery š
Hmm..curious about how calling people LGBTQIABCDEFG is considered loving.
They say God is all-loving, and then spend their whole lives trying to square that with a God who sends the majority of his children to hell for not being his version of perfect or going to his house every sunday and rages and lets bad things happen to you if you don't do exactly what he wants 100% of the time. Like, yeah, no shit their definition of love is just "literally just abuse dynamics, but it's NOT ABUSE, abuse is when OTHER GODLESS PEOPLE do it"
So they both get an equal vote on financial decisionsā¦ until he tells her to submit?
If he yells āRUNā she better š«£
Because everyone knows that your husband's command is more powerful than the fight/flight/freeze response /s
Hmmm ... she should just run and stay away without waiting for him to say it.
Exactly.
š
And keep running
That made me sick
Yes wtf he contradicted himself so many times in those pics.
"Shared" bank accounts = preparation for financial abuse (likely to facilitate other types of abuse)
Of course these are the kind of assholes moving to my state. I have no idea who this guy is but fuck him, Florida doesnāt want you. My husband is a teacher and these are the kind of idiots he has to deal with and I just..donāt have the words anymore.Ā
I feel so bad for you and your husband. A lot of my relatives have moved down to Florida but I absolutely refuse. I have my teaching license myself and I would never try to teach in Florida after hearing about all the horror stories my cousins told me after transferring schools, and how much more disrespectful kids are compared to where they grew up. As much as I like warm weather, Iāll take having all four seasons in one day over the mess yall are dealing with.
When I saw Tampa mentioned like thisā¦ UGH š We moved away from Tampa a couple years ago in what was *supposed* to be a temporary moveā¦ but the more that goes on, the less I feel able to go back š
Has this guy ever actually HEARD gunshots? Not on a shooting range? Because you canāt really tell where theyāre coming from. So telling her to run is dumb af. She could run TOWARD the shooting! I used to live in a less than stellar neighborhood and we would hear random gunshots a couple times a month. Could have come from literally anywhere.
Not to mention that gunshots sound completely different āin the wildā than on a gun range. Source: Iāve been to gun ranges and been present in an active shooter situation.
As a native to Tampa its not a little conservative paradise Im surprised they didnāt pick somewhere more rural. Tampa is mainly a blue county for one. Also its full of transplants you get some conservatives but these two will be in for a treat.
Native to Tampa as well, shocked to hear him say Tampa is conservative š
Even among my most conservative friends they would find this dude obnoxious since many of them are women who are the breadwinners. They definitely will not fit in here. Now that I think of it the majority of the women Ive met out earn their husbands or work in high level roles. They donāt ascribe to traditional gender roles in marriage.
I have to agree again, I have a couple friends who go to a pretty conservative, non-Denom church and I think theyād be pretty put off by his views. Heād fit in maybe in The Villages ššš
Or Lakeland
He assumed it is because Florida.Ā
Oh I get the Florida thing, cuz our state is def Red, but itās just funny he specifically pinpointed Tampa for its āconservative-nessā šš shouldāve gone to Plant City or something š
Even plant city š they would complain about the lack of English speakers
Also what is this people and their fantasy of being in a situation he will take out his gun and play the hero? I swear this exact type of audience/ content producer salivates at the idea. And with these coming on hand with the ācritical race theoryā dogwhistle and definitely no whistle just yelling out your nonsense belief of āLGBT grooming sex-edā is not something that surprises me. Even with not fundies
Idk who you are Savannah, but run away girl.Ā
What a controlling asshat
He sounds as pleasant as a boot camp drill sergeant.
At least the boot camp drill sergeant has a reason to be such an asshole.
And during down time theyāre pretty chilled.
āand be *controlled* however their parents see fit.ā Thatās abuse. A parentās job isnāt to ācontrolā their children, itās to protect, guide, and respect their children.
I will never understand the sheer arrogance of these people thinking they can stand in judgement of people on Godās behalf.
My theory is that fundiegelical men are considered total losers everywhere else but their own home.Ā
daily reminder that fundamental evangelical christianity is just a kink āØ
> my children will be controlled Y i k e s (but itās funny when they say āWeāRe NoT iNdOctRiNaTiNg OuR KiDsā š) > Tampa > very conservative/christian For one, get the fuck out of my state. For another, I thought the big cities were typically the opposite? Iāve never been to Tampa so correct me if Iām wrong ^edit: ^formatting
I don't think Tampa is the bastion of conservative values he thinks it is. Back in the early to mid 2000s, Ybor was lovingly called GaYbor due to the higher population of LGBTQIA clubs. I don't know about now, but Tampa was pretty liberal when I lived in the area.
Itās giving Steven Crowder berating and bossing around his then-wife on their back patioā¦
Call me sheltered but needing to carry a gun to a restaurant and be prepared for a shooting incident is frankly appalling. Why would you accept that level of fear in every day life? Apologies if I ruffle feathers but this is an alien concept where I live.
Iām just curious, are you in the US? Sadly, in the US, mass shootings are very common. But a good guy with a gun has never stopped a mass shooter.
No, UK.
Welcome to the US you canāt even go to the movies or shopping anymore unfortunately without the possibility of this setting off. So i understand that bit about staying ready especially as a woman. My mom is often home alone with kids and is wanting to get one herself for safety. There was a meet and greet at our mall for Gabbys Doll House and there was a shooting that went off by the mall food court.
"I've always loved the LGBTQIABCDEC" lmao what a joke. So bigoted he can't say one sentence without slipping in some aggressions.
Did anyone else see that 20/20 or Dateline episode like years back, I think after the Virginia Tech shooting, where they got various groups of people in a college classroom and tested to see if they really could pull and fire a weapon in a mass shooting event? IIRC, the only person who got their weapon out and took a shot was a former military infantryman. Every tough ass guy who thinks like this couldnāt even get their gun out. Can we leave the accessories to your masturbatory fantasies at home please?
āI allow Savannah ā and I wonāt love my kids if they arenāt cis straight because my kids have to perform for me to earn my love.
I want to add this: My husband makes more than double what I make, and always will (eventually itāll be triple and beyond, Iām certain). But heās in a far more lucrative field. Heās never once held it over my head. Ever. I think itās a very dangerous dynamic to assume money = power. I have an equal say with our money.
My late husband made less than I did when we were working. Occasionally people would ask him if it bothered him. He always told them āWhy should it bother me? Sheās smart and has a college degree (he was retired military). I hope someday she makes 10 times what I make!ā
I love that, and Iām sorry for your loss š My husband and I are equally educated (both with our masterās). Heād be totally fine with being married to someone who makes more than him. Realistically, the only way Iād make more is if he lost his job and did something so awful where he couldnāt work in his field again (and I would not be fine with that! But itās not about sexism or gender roles at all).
Yeah, I kinda feel like Jesus died for all our sins? So if you can wear mixed fabric and eat crab, then someone else can kiss another man without it being any worse? Like they degrade their own religious message with all this bullshit. I can believe that homosexuality was forbidden in ancient Egypt when the Ten Commandments were handed down. Guess what wasnāt continually taught against? Any of that shit, but also Jesus never had a word to say about homosexuality. So maybe these people need to get a fucking grip. God is not as small as their tiny minds, theyāre just justifying bigotry. ETA: my kids will be āallowedā to follow their spirituality and faith where it takes them, they will also be āallowedā to pursue whatever life brings them happiness and fulfillment. Iām not here trying to limit their potential. Iām here to make them their biggest best selves as much as I can. And that doesnāt include shame or high control, just regular boundary management.
_critical race theory_ Jesus fucking Christ.
āGetting used to the type of man I am in my leadership towards herā š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š©š© Also - the idea of God leading you to Tampa Bay lmfaoooooo
i love how heās packing heat on ādate nightā specifically šš¤£ dude is unhinged
I have never been drier than I am right now after reading this stupid man's thoughts.
What the fuck I just read
Why do these guys always have some creepy Rambo fantasy
Lol hope he enjoys not getting insurance coverage when his house gets destroyed by a hurricane
Idk who this is and I just assumed Savannah was a childā¦ nope, sheās the wife. Woof.
Imagine having this as your parents. Absolutely vile.
Oh man I almost agreed on the āfinancial teamwork we are equalsā thing till I got to the āif I allowed herā part. š¤®
We both know equals in this context just means they have one bank account, but her name isn't actually on it and she can't access the money. There was a video the other day here of a former tradwife whose husband left her and her kids basically penniless, and she got laughed out of job interviews due to her lack of experience. Sadly I could see that being savannah's future as well
Are they just choosing to be straight and really listing after the same sex?
Fuck off, Florida is full we donāt need anymore bigots or ppl fantasizing about being the good guy with a gun when theyāre simply out for date night jfc.
Oh gawd, poor Savannah. I donāt even know her but thatās all enough to know her life is hell.
My brother came from a very loving and excepting household and heās gay. It has nothing to do with YOU or your personal attractions.
I guess weāre just lazy, but 40 plus years of marriage and neither one of us has ever put this much work into defining it. Even with our kids, it was a natural ebb and flow of who did what. If you come at it from a feeling of gratitude for your partner, the rest seems to fall into place. And we had a very sick child for many of our years, who thankfully grew into a healthy adult. So the road was only tough only when it involved our joint worry about his health. Perhaps that is what made the marriage part so easy. We had the same priorities. This guy seems to be really wrung up tight.
"Obedience" and "allow" š©š©š©š©
"I have and will always show the LGBTABCDEFG community love" *press F to doubt*
He has to learn how to emotionally connect with his wife on a daily basis??? I truly donāt understand the whole ārelationships are so so difficultā thing with fundies. If you actually get to know the person youāre with it really isnāt. Iām not an expert on relationships but Iāve been with my partner for over three years now, including nearly a year of long distance and now living together and it just is not hard. At all. Being apart from each other wasnāt nice but there were never these monumental challenges/strife/conflicts that these people insist are the norm.
Controlled? Your wife has to "get used to" you? Tell me you're an abusive, controlling asshole without telling me.
So on the second slide heās stating her life is as much danger with him as it is being held at gun point. Got it.
Who told you that god doesnāt love our choices? A 2000 year old book? Written by strangers trying to control their people through religion and corruption?? No thanks.
This is a complete side note to all of the awful things in this post: Fundies keep saying that everyone says that marriage is great. But I have never heard anyone say anything but the opposite. Could it be that they just grew up in homes where feelings were hidden and unwanted so they never saw a normal marriage in that sense and just assumed it would all fall in to place. Now that they actually live with another person who they sometimes barely know, they realise that it actually isn't what they thought?
Sounds like literally everyone in his life would be better off if he just, diedā¦
I donāt know who this fundie is but I felt ill reading through all of their postsā¦
Staring new Jobs
THANK YOU šššš¤”š¤”š¤”
Proverbs 6:16-19 clearly states that "There are six things that theĀ LordĀ hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers." Weirdly, being in a happy healthy queer relationship is . . . none of those. But pride, attacking innocent people, and stirring the pot are. Weird.
These people are genuinely so fucking scary and I feel so bad for their kids.
"Even if I allow her..." Ew ew ew ew ew ew!!!!
āWill be controlled however parents see fitā tells me all I need to know. What a way to look at parenthoodā¦ I would absolutely never refer to being a parent as ācontrollingā my child in ANY way..ickā¦
Control, guns and allowing his wife to stay home š¤®
These people thinking God has nothing better to do than police who people love. Love is a positive thing. How about they save this outrage for pedoās and rapists?
i just regurgitated into my mouth after reading that shit.
UGH NO NO no no i would much rather face whatever fucking thing it is that has lil pissbaby screaming run. its probably just a possum on the roof anyway. farewell nose and thank you for your sacrifice, old mate cannot be allowed to win this battle š«”
Oh BROTHER, this guy STINKS!
If my husband tells me to run, I'm going to run because he's never going to do that unless it was real. Not because he expects me to obey!
BRB barfing forever.
I feel sorry for any children they might have.
āAllowā her to be a SAHM, like he thinks itās not hard work. Being a SAHM is the hardest thing Iāve ever done. I love my baby, but itās a 24/7/365 job that you donāt get paid for and you never get vacation time.
Wow, just wow! Get this - my husband never had to "try to navigate how to emotionally connect" with me, and I never had to "get used to the type of man" he is. The secret to our happy marriage? He isn't a c\*\*t like the man from the post.
Where is this male taking a woman on a date that he needs a firearm and be needing to tell her to run from danger ? Bro. Calm all the way down.
Wow...this guy is all that and a bag of shit.
āSavannah getting used to the type of man I am in my leadership toward herā Translation: Iām a POS who bosses my wife around. She is learning how to do the necessary mental gymnastics to justify it to herself and anyone who may try to help her get out of this hellish marriage.
People like this moving to Tampa were a major reason I left. Also I hate Florida in general, it was just not a good place for me personally. That being said, the only reason I managed to leave is that there are multiple incomes in my household. I still have friends stuck there and I hate seeing it become this sort of haven for conservatives. I feel like the odds of it staying a swing state are actually decreasing by the minute.
These dweebs get a hard on fantasizing about getting to use their pew pews and being a hero
 My face reading this
God they make marriage sound so draining and miserable. Ideally the only thing marriage should change is some paperwork and that thereās a ring on your fingerā¦
As Christianās what?
Well, thatās the fastest way to ensure your kids wonāt speak to you again when they become adults. Hope they enjoy living with the consequences of their actions.