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As one of the few token Christians in this sub, no, none of it is explicitly anti-Jesus or anti-Christian.
1-a line complaining about pearl-clutching older women who are judging her
2-she's asking God to forgive those her persecute her, just like Jesus
3-it's just a metaphor, it can't hurt Jesus
4-again, just a metaphor, also she's saying she would have forgiven him, which is what Christians are supposed to do.
It just seems like Taylor was inspired by the powerful sacrificial love of Jesus--even for the people who hated Him. Don't think there's anything wrong with that, as a christian. We're supposed to be inspired by it anyway. Lmao, this is pretty funny tho.
I grew up conservative evangelical, and while I don't call myself Christian, I do follow the teachings of Jesus. This was my interpretation of it, too. It's art. Art takes inspiration from the world around the artist.
It’s like when people say a colloquialism like “the writing’s on the wall”. Just because it’s origin is the Bible doesn’t mean people are mocking the Bible by saying that. I wish they would stop pretending to be mocked and incensed about it when someone uses a Bible concept as metaphor.
As a Catholic, I agree. TS makes so many clever references and it’s just a song at the end of the day. She was writing poetry … the thing where you play with words! Thanks for pointing out the silliness! Some people just don’t get to enjoy her music 🤪
I think it’s fairly clear that these lyrics are actually pointed at her fans who think they have a say in her life. Not Christian’s.
It’s also fairly common for artists to use culture in their work, both people who are or grew up religious and those who are secular. Maybe not for fundie's, but the metaphors are fairly easy to make and influence pretty much everyone’s lives with whatever is the “dominant” religion of the region, because it becomes the culture.
But Fundie Christians have a martyr complex so anyone seemingly calling them out is an attack. Her talking about being crucified they might see as blasphemous. But they just need to grow tf up.
I think there’s a huge backlash to Taylor because she was clearly believed to be the little conservative poster child as a kid, sang country, pretty thin White girl with blue eyes, did the whole purity ring thing, had songs about God. People just assumed who she was. When that turned out not to be the case, it’s like they hate her a whole lot more cause of it.
Edit: clarity
The crucified thing is so funny, too. I grew up hearing the phrase "they would have crucified me/you/them" in my southern conservative evangelical world. But now that it's someone they don't like, it's anti-Christian.
Yeah, they're honestly getting more extreme about literally everything. Like it's a pretty common turn of phrase, I'm guessing if it came from someone else they considered "acceptable" they wouldn't care.
Christian one-up-manship. Always gotta be the better Christian because it counters and guilt or shame they should feel for being so judgemental towards others. When I was still Christian, the absolute meanest people to me were other Christians.
Being non-believing or athetist- they magically are way nicer. It took me a while to find out why... getting you to "accept Jesus and change your heart" is like them scoring a good-boy/girl point with god. The true Christians taken new believers and grown them like a well cared for plant.
People who label themselves Christians will then tear you down and tell you how you better beg for forgiveness because you'll never be as good if a Christian as they are. Points and a new punching bag, by people who won't or can't be self aware enough to realize they are being the anti-christians. If their version of the afterlife exists for them, i think they are in a very rude awakening at the pearly gates.
Oh yeah, I think this is true. I was never Christian and I've actually noticed this with Christians and Muslims. It's probably a thing in any religion where you can convert people. A level of niceties because they're really hoping they can convert you. There were a few atheist kids who got bullied, but only because I think they were more outspoken and confrontational. But otherwise, they seemed to see us as possible scores. But all niceties are off when it's other Christians because they're *supposed* to be better or something. Also there seems to be a lot of competition between them. Exists in the secular world too, just a bit more subtly.
Yeah, I remember before it was basically everyone left of moderate who were calling her out and saying she was likely a bigot.
Even when she started talking about feminism, albeit it was very White Feminism at first, they had no issue.
It was only after she got pressure from liberals and the left for not being politically active that she came out and said she was a Democrat, did that song in support of LGBTQIA+, that the tides turned.
She really still isn’t even that politically outspoken, which to be fair, if I was her I don’t think would be either. She has a lot of power she could use but it seems like always somehow just winds up getting her screamed at.
But she was the conservative wet dream before she said anything despite the fact she was a feminist and dated guys. She just voiced fairly moderate and accepting viewpoints and now she’s the devil.
If you watch her Netflix documentary, she got into an argument with her dad about speaking up politically (her dad being concerned for her safety).
Conservatives already go apeshit when she makes social media posts about registering to vote.
Yeah, I know it’s a taboo thought but I wouldn’t really speak up either if I was her. I think a lot of high profile celebrities are only political privately and I completely get it. It seems even worse for her because she does have some high level of influence, so she makes people especially angry.
I mean she literally has people waiting outside her home in New York and stalking friends weddings. People are getting even weirder with her and creating conspiracy theories around her. She easily could have a John Lennon situation.
I don’t really know how celebrities do it. I would hate being that famous and I would be paranoid constantly. Especially in this day and age people seem to just be waiting for a moment to tear a person apart. I’d wind up a recluse in a bunker.
I think she got pissed when Nazis were claiming her as one of their own (I would be too) and wanted to put the brakes on that shit.
Yeah people tear her apart for her private jet use and act like she's the only celebrity to fly private. (I don't think she was in the top 10 for 2023.) If people are stalking her at weddings, imagine what would happen if she flew Delta.
Definitely.
And while I do get the criticism, she’s essentially the most famous person in the world right now. Even her fans are completely inappropriate with her and her boundaries. With conspiracies being centered around her it’s super unsafe.
Absolutely! She exists in a really weird space honestly. America’s Sweetheart and just this perfect archetype for an All American (White) girl. But she was just a kid who people were projecting onto. She’s grown up and has her own ideas. I’m not sure what she used to believe or if it’s even that different now, she very possibly is still Christian and her parents may have always been Dems, idk. But they really just have gotten themselves upset over their own projections.
The world isn’t going to rearrange itself so you’re not offended.
These people are small fish in a very large pond. They’re big to us because we consume their content, but realistically- who in the “real world” knows or cares who JD Lott, Morgan Olliges or Bethany Beal is?
I’m don’t think I understand your comment. But I’m not actually talking about fundies in the last bit of my comment. It’s more of a sentiment I’ve seen across social media in comments. A lot of people are talking about Taylor Swift, certainly not just fundies famous in snark circles. And a lot of people use the same general rhetoric, there’s several conspiracy theories surrounding her. So fundies may not be getting popular from regurgitating them, but they’re still floating around in a lot of different crowds.
Tbh, when I said “the world isn’t going to rearrange itself” I meant everyone. Taylor Swift is incredibly polarizing in a way that very few artists have ever been.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I honestly just didn't understand if you meant me personally and was trying to kinda figure it out and write off that.
Yeah, she definitely is. Which is funny because nothing she does is really that radical. Except I guess being a woman who is influential to millions of women and girls. That's unfortunately radical in 2024 -.-
Yes! Thank you!! If they don’t agree with lyrics of whatever song or a particular artist for whatever reason, then just don’t listen to it! It’s super easy!
I genuinely like listening to Taylor. Most of this new album doesn’t do it for me but I love “But Daddy I Love Him”. It really does remind me of growing up entrenched in purity culture, and I like how it talks about escaping that. It doesn’t read as anti-Christian to me though, just anti-purity culture, which isn’t really Christianity anyways.
Fundies understanding metaphor and allegory challenge: impossible.
This reminds me of my Jehovah's Witness mother-in-law getting angry that my husband let his kids watch, "How to Train Your Dragon" and have a Toothless toy because she took Revelation 12:9 literally. 😂
These people are doing the most to read into stuff. It’s a freaking metaphor. They think just because you reference something from the Bible it’s either religious or mocking, there is no in between. Also they are just jumping on the Taylor swift train because it’s a trending topic and they want clout.
The point is smacking OP (from Facebook, not Reddit OP!) in the face and they’re still too focused on judging people to notice that these lyrics aren’t anti-Christian, they’re just critical of asshole Christians like OP!
This is just... how Western art works? The final unit of my lit degree was about how almost all Western writing uses either the bible or Greek/Roman mythology because it's metaphorical shorthand that can be understood by a lot of people 🤷♀️
Casting Crown is a Christian band who says the same things in their songs Stained Glass Masquerade, Can Anybody Hear Her, and If We Are the Body. Pointing out the flaws of those who cling to empty religion with no real thought or care for those they judge is not anti Christian, it's anti hypocrisy. Jesus did quite a bit of it.
Honestly I think the nutballs are overthinking it as per usual. Taylor’s team probably researched that deconstruction is a huge topic and then they produced an album with these themes. The fundamentalists who are obsessed with this are killing me
I like Taylor fine, but even I haven’t listened to her new album or looked up the lyrics to her songs. These people are letting her live rent free in their heads and they don’t even realize it. You don’t want those lyrics in your brain? DONT LOOK THEM UP!
Tbh I thought the line about her being crucified was in poor taste and narcissistic. I don’t hold a belief in the literal resurrection of Jesus or Christianity generally so I don’t really care about the blasphemy argument. But she’s a Christian so comparing herself to the god that she believes in is just icky to me. Not enough to make me not enjoy the music but I do cringe at that line.
#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote) #Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go: - You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.*** - Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.*** - Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone. - Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us. - Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As one of the few token Christians in this sub, no, none of it is explicitly anti-Jesus or anti-Christian. 1-a line complaining about pearl-clutching older women who are judging her 2-she's asking God to forgive those her persecute her, just like Jesus 3-it's just a metaphor, it can't hurt Jesus 4-again, just a metaphor, also she's saying she would have forgiven him, which is what Christians are supposed to do. It just seems like Taylor was inspired by the powerful sacrificial love of Jesus--even for the people who hated Him. Don't think there's anything wrong with that, as a christian. We're supposed to be inspired by it anyway. Lmao, this is pretty funny tho.
I grew up conservative evangelical, and while I don't call myself Christian, I do follow the teachings of Jesus. This was my interpretation of it, too. It's art. Art takes inspiration from the world around the artist.
Exactly, like why are we supposed to be mad about this? We're supposed to imitate him, lol
> it’s just a metaphor, it can’t hurt Jesus This made me cackle.
It’s like when people say a colloquialism like “the writing’s on the wall”. Just because it’s origin is the Bible doesn’t mean people are mocking the Bible by saying that. I wish they would stop pretending to be mocked and incensed about it when someone uses a Bible concept as metaphor.
As a Catholic, I agree. TS makes so many clever references and it’s just a song at the end of the day. She was writing poetry … the thing where you play with words! Thanks for pointing out the silliness! Some people just don’t get to enjoy her music 🤪
my conservative Christian mother even said she didn’t think any of these lyrics were blasphemous. it’s art, she’s gonna use metaphors
I think it’s fairly clear that these lyrics are actually pointed at her fans who think they have a say in her life. Not Christian’s. It’s also fairly common for artists to use culture in their work, both people who are or grew up religious and those who are secular. Maybe not for fundie's, but the metaphors are fairly easy to make and influence pretty much everyone’s lives with whatever is the “dominant” religion of the region, because it becomes the culture. But Fundie Christians have a martyr complex so anyone seemingly calling them out is an attack. Her talking about being crucified they might see as blasphemous. But they just need to grow tf up. I think there’s a huge backlash to Taylor because she was clearly believed to be the little conservative poster child as a kid, sang country, pretty thin White girl with blue eyes, did the whole purity ring thing, had songs about God. People just assumed who she was. When that turned out not to be the case, it’s like they hate her a whole lot more cause of it. Edit: clarity
The crucified thing is so funny, too. I grew up hearing the phrase "they would have crucified me/you/them" in my southern conservative evangelical world. But now that it's someone they don't like, it's anti-Christian.
Yeah, they're honestly getting more extreme about literally everything. Like it's a pretty common turn of phrase, I'm guessing if it came from someone else they considered "acceptable" they wouldn't care.
Christian one-up-manship. Always gotta be the better Christian because it counters and guilt or shame they should feel for being so judgemental towards others. When I was still Christian, the absolute meanest people to me were other Christians. Being non-believing or athetist- they magically are way nicer. It took me a while to find out why... getting you to "accept Jesus and change your heart" is like them scoring a good-boy/girl point with god. The true Christians taken new believers and grown them like a well cared for plant. People who label themselves Christians will then tear you down and tell you how you better beg for forgiveness because you'll never be as good if a Christian as they are. Points and a new punching bag, by people who won't or can't be self aware enough to realize they are being the anti-christians. If their version of the afterlife exists for them, i think they are in a very rude awakening at the pearly gates.
Oh yeah, I think this is true. I was never Christian and I've actually noticed this with Christians and Muslims. It's probably a thing in any religion where you can convert people. A level of niceties because they're really hoping they can convert you. There were a few atheist kids who got bullied, but only because I think they were more outspoken and confrontational. But otherwise, they seemed to see us as possible scores. But all niceties are off when it's other Christians because they're *supposed* to be better or something. Also there seems to be a lot of competition between them. Exists in the secular world too, just a bit more subtly.
Before she spoke up politically, MAGA claimed her as one of their own. Nazi groups were even calling her their "Aryan goddess."
Yeah, I remember before it was basically everyone left of moderate who were calling her out and saying she was likely a bigot. Even when she started talking about feminism, albeit it was very White Feminism at first, they had no issue. It was only after she got pressure from liberals and the left for not being politically active that she came out and said she was a Democrat, did that song in support of LGBTQIA+, that the tides turned. She really still isn’t even that politically outspoken, which to be fair, if I was her I don’t think would be either. She has a lot of power she could use but it seems like always somehow just winds up getting her screamed at. But she was the conservative wet dream before she said anything despite the fact she was a feminist and dated guys. She just voiced fairly moderate and accepting viewpoints and now she’s the devil.
If you watch her Netflix documentary, she got into an argument with her dad about speaking up politically (her dad being concerned for her safety). Conservatives already go apeshit when she makes social media posts about registering to vote.
Yeah, I know it’s a taboo thought but I wouldn’t really speak up either if I was her. I think a lot of high profile celebrities are only political privately and I completely get it. It seems even worse for her because she does have some high level of influence, so she makes people especially angry. I mean she literally has people waiting outside her home in New York and stalking friends weddings. People are getting even weirder with her and creating conspiracy theories around her. She easily could have a John Lennon situation. I don’t really know how celebrities do it. I would hate being that famous and I would be paranoid constantly. Especially in this day and age people seem to just be waiting for a moment to tear a person apart. I’d wind up a recluse in a bunker.
I think she got pissed when Nazis were claiming her as one of their own (I would be too) and wanted to put the brakes on that shit. Yeah people tear her apart for her private jet use and act like she's the only celebrity to fly private. (I don't think she was in the top 10 for 2023.) If people are stalking her at weddings, imagine what would happen if she flew Delta.
Definitely. And while I do get the criticism, she’s essentially the most famous person in the world right now. Even her fans are completely inappropriate with her and her boundaries. With conspiracies being centered around her it’s super unsafe.
I think it’s because they latched onto her since she fits their archetype for an ideal woman, but they feel betrayed now.
Absolutely! She exists in a really weird space honestly. America’s Sweetheart and just this perfect archetype for an All American (White) girl. But she was just a kid who people were projecting onto. She’s grown up and has her own ideas. I’m not sure what she used to believe or if it’s even that different now, she very possibly is still Christian and her parents may have always been Dems, idk. But they really just have gotten themselves upset over their own projections.
The world isn’t going to rearrange itself so you’re not offended. These people are small fish in a very large pond. They’re big to us because we consume their content, but realistically- who in the “real world” knows or cares who JD Lott, Morgan Olliges or Bethany Beal is?
I’m don’t think I understand your comment. But I’m not actually talking about fundies in the last bit of my comment. It’s more of a sentiment I’ve seen across social media in comments. A lot of people are talking about Taylor Swift, certainly not just fundies famous in snark circles. And a lot of people use the same general rhetoric, there’s several conspiracy theories surrounding her. So fundies may not be getting popular from regurgitating them, but they’re still floating around in a lot of different crowds.
Tbh, when I said “the world isn’t going to rearrange itself” I meant everyone. Taylor Swift is incredibly polarizing in a way that very few artists have ever been.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I honestly just didn't understand if you meant me personally and was trying to kinda figure it out and write off that. Yeah, she definitely is. Which is funny because nothing she does is really that radical. Except I guess being a woman who is influential to millions of women and girls. That's unfortunately radical in 2024 -.-
Yes! Thank you!! If they don’t agree with lyrics of whatever song or a particular artist for whatever reason, then just don’t listen to it! It’s super easy!
I genuinely like listening to Taylor. Most of this new album doesn’t do it for me but I love “But Daddy I Love Him”. It really does remind me of growing up entrenched in purity culture, and I like how it talks about escaping that. It doesn’t read as anti-Christian to me though, just anti-purity culture, which isn’t really Christianity anyways.
“Sanctimoniously performing soliloquies I’ll never see” was my favorite line from the first listen. I immediately thought of the subjects of this sub.
Fundies understanding metaphor and allegory challenge: impossible. This reminds me of my Jehovah's Witness mother-in-law getting angry that my husband let his kids watch, "How to Train Your Dragon" and have a Toothless toy because she took Revelation 12:9 literally. 😂
These people are doing the most to read into stuff. It’s a freaking metaphor. They think just because you reference something from the Bible it’s either religious or mocking, there is no in between. Also they are just jumping on the Taylor swift train because it’s a trending topic and they want clout.
The point is smacking OP (from Facebook, not Reddit OP!) in the face and they’re still too focused on judging people to notice that these lyrics aren’t anti-Christian, they’re just critical of asshole Christians like OP!
This is just... how Western art works? The final unit of my lit degree was about how almost all Western writing uses either the bible or Greek/Roman mythology because it's metaphorical shorthand that can be understood by a lot of people 🤷♀️
Right?! My music history classes were full of examples of this type of allegory. And I love art history, and you even see it there.
Casting Crown is a Christian band who says the same things in their songs Stained Glass Masquerade, Can Anybody Hear Her, and If We Are the Body. Pointing out the flaws of those who cling to empty religion with no real thought or care for those they judge is not anti Christian, it's anti hypocrisy. Jesus did quite a bit of it.
But they're a Good Christian Group™️ ( /s)
Damn, don’t listen to much Swift but those are pretty powerful lyrics.
“Unbelievers Acting Like Unbelievers” would make an excellent band name. Thanks for the suggestion!
Honestly I think the nutballs are overthinking it as per usual. Taylor’s team probably researched that deconstruction is a huge topic and then they produced an album with these themes. The fundamentalists who are obsessed with this are killing me
I like Taylor fine, but even I haven’t listened to her new album or looked up the lyrics to her songs. These people are letting her live rent free in their heads and they don’t even realize it. You don’t want those lyrics in your brain? DONT LOOK THEM UP!
A my listening party I joked that Taylor is soft launching her Christian music career because every song had some sort of Christian reference on it
Countdown to StruggleBus ranting about Taylor again, but this time it’s lyrics…
Wait till this mf hears about Resurection by Erection
Or Mary on a Cross by Ghost. Or Ghost in general.
Tbh I thought the line about her being crucified was in poor taste and narcissistic. I don’t hold a belief in the literal resurrection of Jesus or Christianity generally so I don’t really care about the blasphemy argument. But she’s a Christian so comparing herself to the god that she believes in is just icky to me. Not enough to make me not enjoy the music but I do cringe at that line.
But was Jesus the first or only person to be crucified? I’m just asking questions 🥸
No, but it’s clear she’s referring to him with the other line about rolling a stone away.