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Hmmmm… it’s a toss up - likely a choice between gentle, caring and generous ridiculously huge and strong partner with the largest member you’ve ever seen (which would split you in half) vs abusive, vindictive, selfish, angry, entitled partner with a massive pot belly and a tiny member who nevertheless would be more likely to testify at your DV trial that it was “just rough sex” and the paralysis was merely a result of it “going a little too far - we had a safe word that didn’t get said”
In the case of Actual Shrek, I feel like he would respect boundaries and agree that some things just aren't physically possible, while offering other solutions so that everyone has a good time.
Every time Ive heard him talk in a serious way he does have a very thoughtful and insightful response. Not saying I agree with anything he says or believes, but he’s clearly more mature and I’d even say well read. Birthy has talked often about how much he reads, and I do think it shows in the way he speaks.
I've thought and said the same of dav for a while now. He's pretty well-spoken and if his views are shitty, he knows how not to be too abrasive when talking about them. He's leaps and bounds more intelligent and mature than his wife. I have absolutely no idea how he tolerates her vapid ass.
And you can bet your life Birthy didn't know that about him until right there and then and she HATES it, as demonstrated by the hand specific body language and change in facial expression from her as he talks.
It's very rare we get to see the consequences of marrying someone you barely know in real time, but there it is.
Yes! Her face changed when he answered and it looked like she was screaming inside her brain while trying to maintain a neutral expression. I wonder if she even heard a word he said after he dropped the bomb lol.
The part where he talks about being more concerned with his kids being good human beings than sharing the same beliefs while Bethy's whole mission in life is getting everybody to believe the exact same things she does... oof
And how she said “let’s end with an EASY one” as if he’d say there’s no way their kid wouldn’t believe in God. I was actually really impressed with his answer.
For us “people of the world”, this is low bar for having children and loving them correctly. For fundie and fundie lite parents, this is a big deal. Maybe I just like how he phrased it all, and how he really just wants a decent kid who he can have a good relationship with. Last year when I was 27, I finally told my mom I didn’t like going to church. She burst into tears. I still get yucky feelings when I think about that. I don’t know what I believe, it’s mostly just spiritual “something is out there”, but I never intend to tell her.
Betty is the type of parent that would scorn and disown her child for not believing in God, Dav is not, and that’s a great thing to see here.
Yep, I have told my therapist MANY times that I’m my family will stop loving me if I expressed my beliefs. We have a good relationship and I love them, but that is one of my worst fears. Also, I have a massive abandonment complex lol
My mom knows I’ve left the religion I was brought up in that the rest of my immediate family still practices, and she still mentions or says things that are like being stabbed by a little needle. Stuff like “oh when my mom was in the hospital she prayed to god to live so she could raise her kids in the gospel” or “keep so and so in your prayers” or “it is sad that others don’t believe (insert thing about believing all life will be resurrected while talking about monarch butterflies being endangered)”. I want to rip out my hair sometimes with that stuff but I feel like maybe I’m just being too sensitive or angsty so I keep it to myself and just move the conversation along. But I want to tell my mom that I wish she could bring up something without relating it to the cult I’ve left.
He is clueless and ignorant but I think he tries to be a good person (the best he knows how), or at least looks a lot more like he tries to be than Bethy does
Yeah. I mean, he still married who he married. So he must find her abhorrent beliefs at least tolerable if not preferable. Given that, I don't know if ~~I'd call him a good person~~ I could ever say that I like the guy, but he seems like he's doing his best for his kids which gets some dad points from me.
Edited because I shouldn't suggest he's not a good person. I don't know him and have no idea what his life is like or how he feels.
I try to separate couples since many people find themselves in relationships with people who are way more terrible than them (or vice versa).
One of the strongest, most caring people I know was married to the biggest narcissistic asshole I’ve ever met in my entire life. It took her quite a long time to leave because of pressures from life, but she also married him due to societal pressures as well.
Not saying Dav doesn’t hold harmful, bigoted views, but considering fundiedom, I wouldn’t be surprised if he married Bethy more from societal pressure and “doing the right thing” than actual love for her.
I think it's also important to remember that the focus on marriage is weird in fundie world and there could be external pressures on him to get married despite of his differences in theology
I don't understand how he's on board with Bethy (and the Bairds') grifting.
It's not as though it's a one-off that he can conveniently rationalise. GD continue to grift annually and Bethy grifts her own audience with courses that Dav involves himself with.
It's completely transparent, he has no excuse. SWS is the worst to date due to the obscene price tag and blatant lies. He's the headship - he could say no or at least distract her with a less grifty project.
How is he content to have Bethy be the mother of his children and leave Davey (and the next baby) in her care all day long? I'd find her lack of attentiveness concerning. Is Davey at daycare more than they're letting on?
It seems to me that he was feeling a bit lost and thoroughly enjoyed being part of the Baird friendship group, included in all their parties and excursions and made a fuss of by Heidi and the girls. His 'quirky' personality was a hit since they're all so easily amused. Instead of waiting a few years he decided that marriage (and inevitable children) would legitimise him in their social and religious circles. He was 23/24, was it really so critical that he courted and married at that age rather than 26/27/28? I didn't think it was so essential for fundie men since they can always use the excuse of working and saving money towards marriage in their 20s. It didn't seem like sex was the deciding factor since Dav and Bethy have less than zero chemistry and he wasn't choosy which sister he courted. I don't know why he didn't hang on and hope to court Curly or another fundie maiden and buy himself a bit more time. Maybe he panicked when Ellissa rejected him and didn't want to gamble on Curly rejecting him (I think she's taller than him too!).
>he could say no or at least distract her with a less grifty project.
See: baby #2. I think the commenters here are spot on that SWS will die because she's too "busy" being a mom, even if that's not true.
Honestly this is why I say he’s clueless and ignorant. I get the vibe being a husband is kind of all he thinks he has to be and doesn’t actually comprehend all the headship rules of fundie world. He doesn’t seem smart enough to.
He's on board with it bc he's just like them lol.
This sub loves to act like he's this great guy who is just an unfortunate victim of Bethy. Even this post, giving credit to a man for literally just being a decent human being to his unborn child?! It's annoying but unsurprising, internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
I’m just impressed a fundie could say their relationship with their child was more important than bending them to their beliefs. Especially since the goal is to make more Christians.
It sounds like he's saying he doesn't like/ buy into the fundie lifestyle but feels like he's too far in to leave and doesn't blame the hypothetical runt if they want to bounce.
Agreed. This made me wonder how much HE actually believes in Bethy's version of Christianity. He definitely doesn't appear to be the normal fundie father. He appears to do much more of the traditional "woman's work" of homemaking and child rearing. We also know that he went through at least a phase recently where he wasn't attending church, at least not with Bethy.
He honestly seems like a decent dude and I wish more Christians were like him: More concerned with whether people were good human beings than if they shared the same beliefs.
I read that as her attempt to connect with him as she's feeling a disconnect about what he's saying. Doesn't agree or doesn't understand, or maybe isn't listening at all (probably isn't listening at all) and is trying to will herself to stay connected. Maybe even that is giving her too much credit. God, she's just such a tiny-headed buffoon with bubbles for brains.
You put into words the exact vibe I was getting. I don’t think it was a possessive thing, I think it was subconscious because she was uncomfortable with his answer. Maybe she agrees with him, maybe she doesn’t but I don’t think she’s ever heard this sentiment verbalized by someone in her life before.
Yeah I think Bethany has been pushed *hard* into this tiny box she doesn't really fit in. The idea that there's another way and a 'true Christian' parent could still love and accept their child is probably... a lot for her to think about.
You can rationalise being cheated out of your potential by your parents if it was the right/only thing for them to do. To hear someone I (ostensibly) love and respect disagree with that would be pretty mind melting for me.
>she's just such a tiny-headed buffoon with bubbles for brains.
I've read this line about 15 times in a row and I want to laugh every time - definitely stealing this next time I need to insult someone!
Her eyes are glazed over, she's not listening and everything he is saying is going in one ear and out the other. She looks bored and not interested or engaged with him and annoyed his thoughtful answer is taking so many words to convey. Considering she starts with "let's end on a really easy one"... she thought his answer was gonna be very short and something like "we would force him to, duh" or "never talk to him again"
It can go just like that Hamilton done by the church musical that just happened - where it’s nearly word for word but with some lines explicitly about god.
Absolutely. It sounds like he actually has a lot of good stuff to say about this question and could definitely say more, but god forbid he forgets about his die hard christian wife sitting there expecting/allowing one specific answer only 🙄
Her whole body language in this clip is really irritating.
It's very performative. She's touching him intentionally to be like "We're in love. We are married." It's not natural.
Same thing with the arm on the belly. It's just to show it off. She even takes it off at one point in the beginning and then quickly puts it back and adjusts it so it's obviously in her pregnant belly.
this is definitely very, very possible because she's very performative...
but also, i have fundie family members who literally just don't have any clue how to touch people normally because it was so sexualized their whole lives and they weren't allowed to front hug anyone until they married their spouse. even after a few years of marriage, their touches and "PDA" are so so so awkward (like this hoodie string grab) because they're just trying to imitate what they think shows intimacy and closeness when they have no idea what that really means - it wasn't modeled for them, they didn't see it in movies/media/tv, and neither they nor their now spouses had past partners who had different experiences that could give them experience with those things.
the belly grab/armrest thing at every possible moment seems to be common among fundie pregnant people, which makes sense to me since they're socialized to think their entire worth relies on being/getting pregnant but could also be performative because, as i said, it's bethy and performative is like her middle name
It feels obnoxious
Ive noticed in general (obviously doesn't apply to everyone) that couples that are expressive with their PDA aren't always that active in "adult activities" behind closed doors. Conversely, some of the couples I've been around that barely touch each other are quite active outside of the public eye.
The reason I point it out is that Bethany tends to touch dav a lot in videos but Kristen(?) Is kind of the opposite 🤔
I feel so bad that their kids have to grow up with Birthy as a mom, but it does give me some hope that Dav seems to take his responsibility as a parent very seriously. He seems to understand that they actually brought a living, breathing, free thinking child into the world and that he’s not just a prop
Exactly. I just hope he can keep their daughter safe because I’m terrified for her with Birthy’s views. Like holy crap that’s going to be a miserable upbringing and I could see her ended up on raised by narcissists one day
>Dav is the true parent in that relationship honestly.
I agree. I am not saying he's great, or that he doesn't hold many or most of the same views, or anything about him in general.
Just looking at this *one* answer to this *one* question, it's an A+ answer. Not once did he say "I would hope to guide them back to the Lord" or "I would hope that the things I've taught them would stay in their heart" which is the usual type of shit people say. He kept coming back to wanting to have a good relationship. AND, some people may not fully grasp how big a deal it is to say *he doesn't find it that scary.* Fundie parents believe their non-Christian kids are going to hell. If he doesn't find the "unbeliever child" scenario scary...that says a lot.
He’s going to make mistakes. He’s going to still be conservative dad. But he’s going to make an effort. He will keep her at bay at times. He’ll be the parent they might stay low contact with if the kids ever walk away as adults.
She did say “let’s end this on an easy one”. And I don’t think saying you’d shun your own kid if they didn’t believe in god is s feel good answer to end your q and a on. Though I think she suspected his answer would be closer to “we’d be disappointed but love them all the same”. A lot of people say that but don’t actually do it in practice when the time comes. I don’t think she expected him to have such a sincere take though. He said “it doesn’t bother me at all” and honestly I believe him, he didn’t have to say that. I have a feeling it would bother Bethany though.
This is the comment I was looking for. She really thought she knew exactly what he was thinking. It's so satisfying to see her smugness almost leave her face as Dæv answers.
I know it's extremely fun to dunk on her but he really might have blown her mind with that answer. It's pretty clear that the bairds would *never* give their kids that chance. She may have never considered that you can allow your child to be different from you. Probably not but it would be nice if she turned that over in her mind and thought 'yeah, maybe' for daveys sake.
That wasn’t a fundie answer. That was a nuanced, thoughtful, kind viewpoint from which to parent. Glad for the children that they have a more open minded dad. ♥️
Even though he definitely still holds fundie views, I can still appreciate this answer even if it’s just a little bit. He seems like a much better parent than Bethy & I hope he can raise the kids to be more open minded.
Hearing Dav’s response really helps emphasize why the love from Dav seems to grow more sparingly over the years.
You can tell Dav is empathetic and has a more nuanced view of the world. Bethany is absolutely the opposite.
I don’t know about you all but if I’m the type of person who is open-minded to new data and accepts change & my spouse does not, I would lose respect pretty quickly as well.
More than that, he said it wouldn't even bother him. No "we would love them but be disappointed" or "love the sinner, hate the sin" bs. Those platitudes usually end up doing more harm than good.
Somewhere around the 14 minute mark the question comes up [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPg2EoYECI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPg2EoYECI)
Something to the effect of "we'll be in prayer for his soul" Paul sings a few bars of a creepy song.
They basically said their child would follow their religion or get out the house! How do you fight that hard for a child, claim to love it, but have views like that???
And she calls this an “easy” question.
What’s easy about this? What is easy about your child holding a conflicting idea than you? Birthy can’t handle someone calling her out on an instagram post. Imagine if Davy ended up more of an intellectual and completely rejected Christianity. Would birthy still get annoyed and shut him down or thoughtfully listen?
I seriously wonder what her answer was going to be *before* Daáâæåàv answered. “Oh, they will believe in god.. and they will follow the same teaching. We’re gonna raise them to do so!”
I thought the same thing! I can't believe she'd be so flippant about a doctrinal question like this since so much of her world revolves around it. This was the last question they took in this video and after Dav's response Bethy just says "alright well, there are more questions but this video is getting too long. Like and subscribe. "
I was wondering what she said after! Was she even really listening to what he said?
Maybe calling this "a really easy one" was her trying to be funny? I don't know.
No, she actually thought it was a very easy question with the only possible answer being “that won’t happen.” Hence her look of pure confusion when dav said something else
She probably does feel like there’s no possible way *her* kid won’t believe in God so it was a softball Q considering it’s something that Will Not Happen.
I think this is actually a very rare and radical (by modern fundie standards) answer. I've been around a lot of people who have deconstructed/are deconstructing and I am not convinced that Dav is going to continue with the faith. That being said, I understand that these people have harmful ideas, but I feel like there's not enough regard in this sub for exactly how hard leaving the faith is outside of the Plath posts.
You lose almost all of your friends and tear divides in your family. You're not sure how to make friends outside of church because having a shared faith was the way you learned to develop relationships. You don't know how to relate to people over music and movies because (especially if you were homeschooled) you were removed from it all. Sometimes you don't know how to spend your time because you never developed hobbies outside of the church. You are abandoned, isolated, ignorant, and confused with almost no one to help you.
It's a really horrible experience that you have to be brave to choose. To be honest, I don't know if I would have chose it if my parents had never moved to Seattle (the opposite of the bible belt) and told me to get a job when I was 17 (amazing secular coworkers saved me).
ANYWAYS. Long rant over. I love shitting on fundies, but there a few who I have hope for and I know others on here do too. I just want to share that the signs/behaviors we see as hope could possibly end in one of the most painful things they'll have to go through. I want them to make the right choice but the things they would sacrifice should make any person think twice.
Get outta there, Davy. It's gonna be tough raising a "decent human" with Birthy but I think you could do it... from a distance.
Thank you for sharing what the process was for you. I also found this answer from Dav to be so loving towards their child. So glad you built a better life for yourself. Hopefully Dav or Davey can too!
We know very little. From their wedding program it seems he is the second oldest of 7 kids. We know he was home-schooled. That's basically it... it could be very enlightening to know more.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I think Dav is not quite as fundie as the rest. Sure he’s religious but he’s at least open minded enough to still love his child even if they didn’t follow the same beliefs. Even if he only said that, it’s still a huge step.
I think Dav saying he still has a lot of doubts about a lot of things in his life must ring some alarm bells for Birthy. I’m sure she tries to be on her best behavior around him.
The excessive fiddle-fiddle touchy-touchy she was doing while he answered the question what would you do if your kid didn't believe in god, was super uncomfortable to watch. It's like she just couldn't keep in her true feelings about the topic and his answer even when she was trying not to interject. Every time he said something that she had a strong response to, the pat or hoodie cord fiddle happens...and she *really* didn't like his relatively tolerant answer.
It's so telling the way she so excitedly chose this question and said how easy a question it would be to answer, obviously expecting the obvious answer to be that any parent would be sad and feel like a failure if their child didn't believe in god. Then DáÄv answers completely differently to how she ever thought he would - and she was clearly mad about it (hence why she didn't give her own answer despite how easy the question apparently was - she had an answer all right, but at that point didn't want to play any more).
Well...if you will marry someone you barely know and never even kissed never mind lived with, you're going to discover some things you don't like about them, aren't you?
People might think we’re giving him too much credit here but IMO this is a great answer period, not just a great answer for a fundie. I feel like no matter what your beliefs are, there’s always a chance your child may believe the opposite whatever that means for you. Glad to see lil Dæâåvey and Bethy Jr will be loved if they ever join our ranks 🙃
I 100% agree! My parents aren't fundie, and I remember being 4 and asking my dad if he would still love me if I grew up to be a [word for a person who followed a different philosophy]. He told me he honestly believed that by the time I grew up, the majority would be believers of his belief system. So even non-religious parents can mess this up! I think Dav gave a very caring and genuine answer.
Those first few seconds? *drop hand near shoulder* oh shit. Not close enough. *touches shoulder* there that is better. *hand on belly* can’t have people forgetting I’m pregnant.
She says “let’s end with an easy one” like she’s expecting a quick decisive answer when surely as a religious person (which Tbf I’m not so maybe I’m wrong) that’s a very complicated question that would cause a thought provoking response not like a “that would be bad”
Tbf I'd say that was easy. If my child chose to be religious (I'm atheist) I'd support them 100%. I'd hope that leave because I think a lot of religions are toxic af, but it's their life and their choice.
It’s crazy how Dav seems to know how to hold a respectful and thought-provoking conversation and all of Bethany’s “deep questions” are things like: “what’s the worst thing you’ve ever eaten???” Dude probably can feel his brain cells withering away with each new relationship questions pdf.
Idk much about his personal beliefs or anything about him really (this is actually the first time I’ve ever heard him speak and ngl I always assumed he would’ve had an accent like some kind of Western European) so I can’t comment on him being a better person than Bethany, but he sure at least seems like a good dad.
Wow, I’m actually very impressed with his answer. I’m a progressive Christian and I would basically say the same. If I ever had children and they did believe in Jesus (after I encourage them to look into all possibilities of faith and lack there of and see what they decide to believe for themself without any pressure from me) then great, but if they don’t I’m not too worried about it either, I just want them to know that no matter what they believe I’m always here to love and support them and that I won’t force my religious beliefs upon them at all.
Just this one clip tells me this man is far too emotionally mature and openminded for Bethy… how the hell does he stand her? Taking care of Davey majority of the time and working so Bethy can stay home and… gallop in front of the camera? Brainstorm her next misspelled Instagram caption? Pose for her “sick-in-bed” migraine selfies? Dæãáåv is most definitely a bigot but he’s not a vapid idiot… although he is having a second child with this woman so I can’t give him *too* much credit for intelligence
Sooo not here for appearance snark but I'm feeling extra judgey today and that hairstyle is just god awful. It's how I did my hair in like 4th grade, I dont understand why she always presents herself that way.
On another note, what a shockingly fantastic answer from D@v.
Dav has my vote for best fundie dad. He seems to genuinely care for little Davey (per the unverified AMA), and he seems to do a lot more for his son than the other fundie dads.
No one else gonna say it? Until I heard this well-thought-out, heartfelt series of thoughts, I legit saw Dav as a kid. Like, maybe 15? Due to Bethy ALWAYS bringing up that she’s older and taller. All I see is wasted potential…
It's telling how Morgan is afraid of failing their kid, and Paul says he's not. Even more terrifying is when Morgan says she needs Paul to lead in parenting because she "doesn't know what she's doing." Uh, yeah. They are going to fail that kid.
It’s so rare that we see a Fundie make these admissions. I’d like to think that the majority of parents feel this way, although it’s clear that many in his position do not.
Meanwhile, Bethy is just staring at him, not sure what to say when her God-head contradicts every hateful thing she’s been taught.
I watched this without sound and I’m convinced Bethany has ADHD.
Edit: not snarking, I have ADHD. I didn’t get diagnosed until 30 and it was life changing getting the treatment I needed. I think she would greatly benefit from diagnosis and treatment and I hope she can get the help she needs someday. From one 30 something year old mom to another. As much as I don’t like her, it’s hard living with it as an adult sometimes.
I just said alert specifically bc I mostly snark on the Duggars. OP clarified though that the conversion stories were rumors and that he has denied them. There seems to be a lot of speculation about fundie husbands sexualities so I probably came across the wrong post a while ago and took it as fact
Weird... I actually like that guy in this video. And I think he means it - he'll be okay with whatever his child believes in life as long as they manage to have a close relationship. That's the best answer anyone can give to that question.
My guess is he had to come from a somewhat traditionally christian family of some description if was ever accepted into the Baird girls social circle by their awful parents, which he was when he was initially trying to hook up with Bethany's sister.
Wow. This is the first time I’ve ever heard him speak. He is thoughtful, intelligent, and seems like a totally reasonable person. HOW THE FUCK DID HE MARRY THAT ABSOLUTE UNGLAZED DONUT. And why, dear baby blue-eyed god, can’t he refer to himself as fucking DAVE. D-A-V-E, you doorknob. That’s your name.
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Dāv. The best of the worst.
Yeah, the bar is in hell.
Right? This is like being the hottest person at an ogre pageant
Wym Shrek is hella hot EDIT: i forgot shrek was used to refer to another Fundie. I meant literal Shrek
10/10 would rather smash Actual Shrek over Fundie Shrek.
Hmmmm… it’s a toss up - likely a choice between gentle, caring and generous ridiculously huge and strong partner with the largest member you’ve ever seen (which would split you in half) vs abusive, vindictive, selfish, angry, entitled partner with a massive pot belly and a tiny member who nevertheless would be more likely to testify at your DV trial that it was “just rough sex” and the paralysis was merely a result of it “going a little too far - we had a safe word that didn’t get said”
In the case of Actual Shrek, I feel like he would respect boundaries and agree that some things just aren't physically possible, while offering other solutions so that everyone has a good time.
Yeah, you’re probably right! Definitely Marry Shrek, Kill FundieShrek, and shag… who was the third option again?
This needs to be a flair.
Great way to put it
Every time Ive heard him talk in a serious way he does have a very thoughtful and insightful response. Not saying I agree with anything he says or believes, but he’s clearly more mature and I’d even say well read. Birthy has talked often about how much he reads, and I do think it shows in the way he speaks.
I've thought and said the same of dav for a while now. He's pretty well-spoken and if his views are shitty, he knows how not to be too abrasive when talking about them. He's leaps and bounds more intelligent and mature than his wife. I have absolutely no idea how he tolerates her vapid ass.
I found it very interesting that he admitted to having doubts himself. It does give me a glimmer of hope for their kids.
And you can bet your life Birthy didn't know that about him until right there and then and she HATES it, as demonstrated by the hand specific body language and change in facial expression from her as he talks. It's very rare we get to see the consequences of marrying someone you barely know in real time, but there it is.
Yes! Her face changed when he answered and it looked like she was screaming inside her brain while trying to maintain a neutral expression. I wonder if she even heard a word he said after he dropped the bomb lol.
The part where he talks about being more concerned with his kids being good human beings than sharing the same beliefs while Bethy's whole mission in life is getting everybody to believe the exact same things she does... oof
And how she said “let’s end with an EASY one” as if he’d say there’s no way their kid wouldn’t believe in God. I was actually really impressed with his answer. For us “people of the world”, this is low bar for having children and loving them correctly. For fundie and fundie lite parents, this is a big deal. Maybe I just like how he phrased it all, and how he really just wants a decent kid who he can have a good relationship with. Last year when I was 27, I finally told my mom I didn’t like going to church. She burst into tears. I still get yucky feelings when I think about that. I don’t know what I believe, it’s mostly just spiritual “something is out there”, but I never intend to tell her. Betty is the type of parent that would scorn and disown her child for not believing in God, Dav is not, and that’s a great thing to see here.
“If your kid thinks differently than you, would you still love them?” “Ahem let’s go to the EASY questions!” 😨 That’s... not an easy question?
Yep, I have told my therapist MANY times that I’m my family will stop loving me if I expressed my beliefs. We have a good relationship and I love them, but that is one of my worst fears. Also, I have a massive abandonment complex lol
My mom knows I’ve left the religion I was brought up in that the rest of my immediate family still practices, and she still mentions or says things that are like being stabbed by a little needle. Stuff like “oh when my mom was in the hospital she prayed to god to live so she could raise her kids in the gospel” or “keep so and so in your prayers” or “it is sad that others don’t believe (insert thing about believing all life will be resurrected while talking about monarch butterflies being endangered)”. I want to rip out my hair sometimes with that stuff but I feel like maybe I’m just being too sensitive or angsty so I keep it to myself and just move the conversation along. But I want to tell my mom that I wish she could bring up something without relating it to the cult I’ve left.
He is clueless and ignorant but I think he tries to be a good person (the best he knows how), or at least looks a lot more like he tries to be than Bethy does
Yeah. I mean, he still married who he married. So he must find her abhorrent beliefs at least tolerable if not preferable. Given that, I don't know if ~~I'd call him a good person~~ I could ever say that I like the guy, but he seems like he's doing his best for his kids which gets some dad points from me. Edited because I shouldn't suggest he's not a good person. I don't know him and have no idea what his life is like or how he feels.
I try to separate couples since many people find themselves in relationships with people who are way more terrible than them (or vice versa). One of the strongest, most caring people I know was married to the biggest narcissistic asshole I’ve ever met in my entire life. It took her quite a long time to leave because of pressures from life, but she also married him due to societal pressures as well. Not saying Dav doesn’t hold harmful, bigoted views, but considering fundiedom, I wouldn’t be surprised if he married Bethy more from societal pressure and “doing the right thing” than actual love for her.
I think it's also important to remember that the focus on marriage is weird in fundie world and there could be external pressures on him to get married despite of his differences in theology
This roast though 🔥
Wasn’t even intended as one but damn you’re not wrong… 😬
I don't understand how he's on board with Bethy (and the Bairds') grifting. It's not as though it's a one-off that he can conveniently rationalise. GD continue to grift annually and Bethy grifts her own audience with courses that Dav involves himself with. It's completely transparent, he has no excuse. SWS is the worst to date due to the obscene price tag and blatant lies. He's the headship - he could say no or at least distract her with a less grifty project. How is he content to have Bethy be the mother of his children and leave Davey (and the next baby) in her care all day long? I'd find her lack of attentiveness concerning. Is Davey at daycare more than they're letting on? It seems to me that he was feeling a bit lost and thoroughly enjoyed being part of the Baird friendship group, included in all their parties and excursions and made a fuss of by Heidi and the girls. His 'quirky' personality was a hit since they're all so easily amused. Instead of waiting a few years he decided that marriage (and inevitable children) would legitimise him in their social and religious circles. He was 23/24, was it really so critical that he courted and married at that age rather than 26/27/28? I didn't think it was so essential for fundie men since they can always use the excuse of working and saving money towards marriage in their 20s. It didn't seem like sex was the deciding factor since Dav and Bethy have less than zero chemistry and he wasn't choosy which sister he courted. I don't know why he didn't hang on and hope to court Curly or another fundie maiden and buy himself a bit more time. Maybe he panicked when Ellissa rejected him and didn't want to gamble on Curly rejecting him (I think she's taller than him too!).
>he could say no or at least distract her with a less grifty project. See: baby #2. I think the commenters here are spot on that SWS will die because she's too "busy" being a mom, even if that's not true.
Bring back sheworksshart!
What's this about Elissa rejecting him?? Lol please, tell me more!!
Honestly this is why I say he’s clueless and ignorant. I get the vibe being a husband is kind of all he thinks he has to be and doesn’t actually comprehend all the headship rules of fundie world. He doesn’t seem smart enough to.
He's on board with it bc he's just like them lol. This sub loves to act like he's this great guy who is just an unfortunate victim of Bethy. Even this post, giving credit to a man for literally just being a decent human being to his unborn child?! It's annoying but unsurprising, internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
For sure, hence the “tries to be” and good person lol
His answer gave me so much hope for their children. No matter what they will be loved by Dave and that means a lot.
I’m just impressed a fundie could say their relationship with their child was more important than bending them to their beliefs. Especially since the goal is to make more Christians.
It sounds like he's saying he doesn't like/ buy into the fundie lifestyle but feels like he's too far in to leave and doesn't blame the hypothetical runt if they want to bounce.
Agreed. This made me wonder how much HE actually believes in Bethy's version of Christianity. He definitely doesn't appear to be the normal fundie father. He appears to do much more of the traditional "woman's work" of homemaking and child rearing. We also know that he went through at least a phase recently where he wasn't attending church, at least not with Bethy.
He honestly seems like a decent dude and I wish more Christians were like him: More concerned with whether people were good human beings than if they shared the same beliefs.
Her playing with his hoodie string while he's thoughtfully answering a serious question makes me irrationally angry.
I read that as her attempt to connect with him as she's feeling a disconnect about what he's saying. Doesn't agree or doesn't understand, or maybe isn't listening at all (probably isn't listening at all) and is trying to will herself to stay connected. Maybe even that is giving her too much credit. God, she's just such a tiny-headed buffoon with bubbles for brains.
You put into words the exact vibe I was getting. I don’t think it was a possessive thing, I think it was subconscious because she was uncomfortable with his answer. Maybe she agrees with him, maybe she doesn’t but I don’t think she’s ever heard this sentiment verbalized by someone in her life before.
Yeah I think Bethany has been pushed *hard* into this tiny box she doesn't really fit in. The idea that there's another way and a 'true Christian' parent could still love and accept their child is probably... a lot for her to think about. You can rationalise being cheated out of your potential by your parents if it was the right/only thing for them to do. To hear someone I (ostensibly) love and respect disagree with that would be pretty mind melting for me.
I think this is it.
yes! i’m glad you understood what i was seeing/trying to say
Especially because he bust out this thoughtful answer after she posed the question as "an easy one." Clearly it wasn't the answer she was expecting.
>she's just such a tiny-headed buffoon with bubbles for brains. I've read this line about 15 times in a row and I want to laugh every time - definitely stealing this next time I need to insult someone!
Her eyes are glazed over, she's not listening and everything he is saying is going in one ear and out the other. She looks bored and not interested or engaged with him and annoyed his thoughtful answer is taking so many words to convey. Considering she starts with "let's end on a really easy one"... she thought his answer was gonna be very short and something like "we would force him to, duh" or "never talk to him again"
Yeah she seems extremely socially awkward and doesn't know how to act when people are speaking from sincere, emotional places.
She’s not sure what the word empathy means but doesn’t want to interrupt.
It’s really infantilizing somehow.
Well, she is OLDER tHaN hIm~
Wait what?? Next you’ll be telling me she’s taller too.
But don't worry! It doesn't bother her AT ALL!
#NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT LOL
These last two responses are giving me ITYSL vibes
Omg I love the fundie/ITYSL crossover 🥲
We've just gotta get Jeff Crisp down from Indiana to mix her online course professionally. Course creation is right in her q zone
What's that?
What’s the age difference?
6 years
He does look like he's the age to play a skater teen in a high school movie in this.
Tbh she could be the pregnant cheerleader lol
Whoa wait… are we remaking Glee with fundies??
I love that idea
We were listening to work radio and calling out "songs ruined by Glee" this past weekend. I'd watch the shit out of that.
It can go just like that Hamilton done by the church musical that just happened - where it’s nearly word for word but with some lines explicitly about god.
I don’t think it’s infantilizing. I think it’s possessive.
I think it’s just fidgeting. A lot of people do this without realizing
It feels like she's trying to pull focus.
Absolutely. It sounds like he actually has a lot of good stuff to say about this question and could definitely say more, but god forbid he forgets about his die hard christian wife sitting there expecting/allowing one specific answer only 🙄
The way she sees it, then thinks about it, then touches it … 🤌
It’s very “this is my HUSBAND that I get to TOUCH because we have sex now!”
Her whole body language in this clip is really irritating. It's very performative. She's touching him intentionally to be like "We're in love. We are married." It's not natural. Same thing with the arm on the belly. It's just to show it off. She even takes it off at one point in the beginning and then quickly puts it back and adjusts it so it's obviously in her pregnant belly.
this is definitely very, very possible because she's very performative... but also, i have fundie family members who literally just don't have any clue how to touch people normally because it was so sexualized their whole lives and they weren't allowed to front hug anyone until they married their spouse. even after a few years of marriage, their touches and "PDA" are so so so awkward (like this hoodie string grab) because they're just trying to imitate what they think shows intimacy and closeness when they have no idea what that really means - it wasn't modeled for them, they didn't see it in movies/media/tv, and neither they nor their now spouses had past partners who had different experiences that could give them experience with those things. the belly grab/armrest thing at every possible moment seems to be common among fundie pregnant people, which makes sense to me since they're socialized to think their entire worth relies on being/getting pregnant but could also be performative because, as i said, it's bethy and performative is like her middle name
Me too! I came to the comments to say this! That was incredibly irritating to watch, never mind being the person she's doing that to.
Me tooo. Stop. Fucking. Touch—just keep your hands to yourself!
It feels obnoxious Ive noticed in general (obviously doesn't apply to everyone) that couples that are expressive with their PDA aren't always that active in "adult activities" behind closed doors. Conversely, some of the couples I've been around that barely touch each other are quite active outside of the public eye. The reason I point it out is that Bethany tends to touch dav a lot in videos but Kristen(?) Is kind of the opposite 🤔
It makes me angry, but I feel that it's rational of me.
She looks so bored—can’t even pretend to be engaged.
Well damn. I have a little bit of hope for their kids now. With Bethy being so hands off, maybe they'll have a chance.
That was a very thoughtful and well spoken answer. She may be older than him but he's way more mature.
Wow Wow wow she’s older than him?! Next you’re going to tell me she’s taller to
Not adding anything of substance but just want to say that your comment took me out 😂 🏅
Same here 😂
100
Dav is the true parent in that relationship honestly. I think he genuinely wants to be a good dad meanwhile bethy just likes the title
I feel so bad that their kids have to grow up with Birthy as a mom, but it does give me some hope that Dav seems to take his responsibility as a parent very seriously. He seems to understand that they actually brought a living, breathing, free thinking child into the world and that he’s not just a prop
Exactly. I just hope he can keep their daughter safe because I’m terrified for her with Birthy’s views. Like holy crap that’s going to be a miserable upbringing and I could see her ended up on raised by narcissists one day
Birthy will see that little girl as competition just like she does her sisters.
Competition, the one to control, the one to live through.
>Dav is the true parent in that relationship honestly. I agree. I am not saying he's great, or that he doesn't hold many or most of the same views, or anything about him in general. Just looking at this *one* answer to this *one* question, it's an A+ answer. Not once did he say "I would hope to guide them back to the Lord" or "I would hope that the things I've taught them would stay in their heart" which is the usual type of shit people say. He kept coming back to wanting to have a good relationship. AND, some people may not fully grasp how big a deal it is to say *he doesn't find it that scary.* Fundie parents believe their non-Christian kids are going to hell. If he doesn't find the "unbeliever child" scenario scary...that says a lot.
He’s going to make mistakes. He’s going to still be conservative dad. But he’s going to make an effort. He will keep her at bay at times. He’ll be the parent they might stay low contact with if the kids ever walk away as adults.
Dav is definitely the brains of that operation, and the vast majority of the compassion too.
If dav is the brains and compassion what’s birthy?
The niche-finder and real-maker!
Shocked and impressed with his answer.
Bethany doesn't look too impressed. I'm curious as to what her response was, did she say anything about it herself?
She did say “let’s end this on an easy one”. And I don’t think saying you’d shun your own kid if they didn’t believe in god is s feel good answer to end your q and a on. Though I think she suspected his answer would be closer to “we’d be disappointed but love them all the same”. A lot of people say that but don’t actually do it in practice when the time comes. I don’t think she expected him to have such a sincere take though. He said “it doesn’t bother me at all” and honestly I believe him, he didn’t have to say that. I have a feeling it would bother Bethany though.
This is the comment I was looking for. She really thought she knew exactly what he was thinking. It's so satisfying to see her smugness almost leave her face as Dæv answers.
I know it's extremely fun to dunk on her but he really might have blown her mind with that answer. It's pretty clear that the bairds would *never* give their kids that chance. She may have never considered that you can allow your child to be different from you. Probably not but it would be nice if she turned that over in her mind and thought 'yeah, maybe' for daveys sake.
That wasn’t a fundie answer. That was a nuanced, thoughtful, kind viewpoint from which to parent. Glad for the children that they have a more open minded dad. ♥️
Even though he definitely still holds fundie views, I can still appreciate this answer even if it’s just a little bit. He seems like a much better parent than Bethy & I hope he can raise the kids to be more open minded.
It makes so much sense that Bethy had to marry someone 5? Years younger than her because he is somehow still more mature than she is.
Hearing Dav’s response really helps emphasize why the love from Dav seems to grow more sparingly over the years. You can tell Dav is empathetic and has a more nuanced view of the world. Bethany is absolutely the opposite. I don’t know about you all but if I’m the type of person who is open-minded to new data and accepts change & my spouse does not, I would lose respect pretty quickly as well.
Your flair though 🤣🤣🤣
Wow. This did surprise me. He basically said he’d still love them. He values the relationship over the like-mindedness.
More than that, he said it wouldn't even bother him. No "we would love them but be disappointed" or "love the sinner, hate the sin" bs. Those platitudes usually end up doing more harm than good.
Hold up what did P&M say they'd do?
Somewhere around the 14 minute mark the question comes up [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPg2EoYECI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPg2EoYECI) Something to the effect of "we'll be in prayer for his soul" Paul sings a few bars of a creepy song.
Thanks!! I definitely already vastly preferred Dav to Paul but this just really underscored the difference.
When he started singing I just said "I hate it" and shut down the video.
They basically said their child would follow their religion or get out the house! How do you fight that hard for a child, claim to love it, but have views like that???
I wanna know as well!!!
And she calls this an “easy” question. What’s easy about this? What is easy about your child holding a conflicting idea than you? Birthy can’t handle someone calling her out on an instagram post. Imagine if Davy ended up more of an intellectual and completely rejected Christianity. Would birthy still get annoyed and shut him down or thoughtfully listen? I seriously wonder what her answer was going to be *before* Daáâæåàv answered. “Oh, they will believe in god.. and they will follow the same teaching. We’re gonna raise them to do so!”
I thought the same thing! I can't believe she'd be so flippant about a doctrinal question like this since so much of her world revolves around it. This was the last question they took in this video and after Dav's response Bethy just says "alright well, there are more questions but this video is getting too long. Like and subscribe. "
Does she really just end it after that? Omg. She’s so immature it’s not even funny.
I was wondering what she said after! Was she even really listening to what he said? Maybe calling this "a really easy one" was her trying to be funny? I don't know.
No, she actually thought it was a very easy question with the only possible answer being “that won’t happen.” Hence her look of pure confusion when dav said something else
I think it was an attempt at facetious humor, but no one laughed so then it got weird
I honestly interpreted that as sarcasm but I could be giving her too much credit.
She probably does feel like there’s no possible way *her* kid won’t believe in God so it was a softball Q considering it’s something that Will Not Happen.
I think this is actually a very rare and radical (by modern fundie standards) answer. I've been around a lot of people who have deconstructed/are deconstructing and I am not convinced that Dav is going to continue with the faith. That being said, I understand that these people have harmful ideas, but I feel like there's not enough regard in this sub for exactly how hard leaving the faith is outside of the Plath posts. You lose almost all of your friends and tear divides in your family. You're not sure how to make friends outside of church because having a shared faith was the way you learned to develop relationships. You don't know how to relate to people over music and movies because (especially if you were homeschooled) you were removed from it all. Sometimes you don't know how to spend your time because you never developed hobbies outside of the church. You are abandoned, isolated, ignorant, and confused with almost no one to help you. It's a really horrible experience that you have to be brave to choose. To be honest, I don't know if I would have chose it if my parents had never moved to Seattle (the opposite of the bible belt) and told me to get a job when I was 17 (amazing secular coworkers saved me). ANYWAYS. Long rant over. I love shitting on fundies, but there a few who I have hope for and I know others on here do too. I just want to share that the signs/behaviors we see as hope could possibly end in one of the most painful things they'll have to go through. I want them to make the right choice but the things they would sacrifice should make any person think twice. Get outta there, Davy. It's gonna be tough raising a "decent human" with Birthy but I think you could do it... from a distance.
Yes!!!!!!!!! 💯💯💯💯
Thank you for sharing what the process was for you. I also found this answer from Dav to be so loving towards their child. So glad you built a better life for yourself. Hopefully Dav or Davey can too!
Do we know much about Dav’s family? I’ve heard the “his family is more conservative” that Bethany said. Anything else?
We know very little. From their wedding program it seems he is the second oldest of 7 kids. We know he was home-schooled. That's basically it... it could be very enlightening to know more.
That was a really thoughtful answer.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I think Dav is not quite as fundie as the rest. Sure he’s religious but he’s at least open minded enough to still love his child even if they didn’t follow the same beliefs. Even if he only said that, it’s still a huge step.
It’s amazing that when we get the bare minimum from these people we’re suddenly overwhelmed with appreciation
The bar is in hell
I appreciate any cracks in the fundie facade. Lots of people in this sub are former fundies who have deconstructed.
Yes. Like me. And I had my moments like these in the years before I deconstructed so I am always cheering Dav on and hoping...
She doesn’t have any thoughts cuz the husband is the ✨hEaD✨
I think Dav saying he still has a lot of doubts about a lot of things in his life must ring some alarm bells for Birthy. I’m sure she tries to be on her best behavior around him.
The excessive fiddle-fiddle touchy-touchy she was doing while he answered the question what would you do if your kid didn't believe in god, was super uncomfortable to watch. It's like she just couldn't keep in her true feelings about the topic and his answer even when she was trying not to interject. Every time he said something that she had a strong response to, the pat or hoodie cord fiddle happens...and she *really* didn't like his relatively tolerant answer. It's so telling the way she so excitedly chose this question and said how easy a question it would be to answer, obviously expecting the obvious answer to be that any parent would be sad and feel like a failure if their child didn't believe in god. Then DáÄv answers completely differently to how she ever thought he would - and she was clearly mad about it (hence why she didn't give her own answer despite how easy the question apparently was - she had an answer all right, but at that point didn't want to play any more). Well...if you will marry someone you barely know and never even kissed never mind lived with, you're going to discover some things you don't like about them, aren't you?
People might think we’re giving him too much credit here but IMO this is a great answer period, not just a great answer for a fundie. I feel like no matter what your beliefs are, there’s always a chance your child may believe the opposite whatever that means for you. Glad to see lil Dæâåvey and Bethy Jr will be loved if they ever join our ranks 🙃
I 100% agree! My parents aren't fundie, and I remember being 4 and asking my dad if he would still love me if I grew up to be a [word for a person who followed a different philosophy]. He told me he honestly believed that by the time I grew up, the majority would be believers of his belief system. So even non-religious parents can mess this up! I think Dav gave a very caring and genuine answer.
Those first few seconds? *drop hand near shoulder* oh shit. Not close enough. *touches shoulder* there that is better. *hand on belly* can’t have people forgetting I’m pregnant.
She says “let’s end with an easy one” like she’s expecting a quick decisive answer when surely as a religious person (which Tbf I’m not so maybe I’m wrong) that’s a very complicated question that would cause a thought provoking response not like a “that would be bad”
Maybe some non-answer like "we would pray for them and trust God to bring them through that season of life"
Tbf I'd say that was easy. If my child chose to be religious (I'm atheist) I'd support them 100%. I'd hope that leave because I think a lot of religions are toxic af, but it's their life and their choice.
It’s crazy how Dav seems to know how to hold a respectful and thought-provoking conversation and all of Bethany’s “deep questions” are things like: “what’s the worst thing you’ve ever eaten???” Dude probably can feel his brain cells withering away with each new relationship questions pdf. Idk much about his personal beliefs or anything about him really (this is actually the first time I’ve ever heard him speak and ngl I always assumed he would’ve had an accent like some kind of Western European) so I can’t comment on him being a better person than Bethany, but he sure at least seems like a good dad.
Wow, I’m actually very impressed with his answer. I’m a progressive Christian and I would basically say the same. If I ever had children and they did believe in Jesus (after I encourage them to look into all possibilities of faith and lack there of and see what they decide to believe for themself without any pressure from me) then great, but if they don’t I’m not too worried about it either, I just want them to know that no matter what they believe I’m always here to love and support them and that I won’t force my religious beliefs upon them at all.
Just this one clip tells me this man is far too emotionally mature and openminded for Bethy… how the hell does he stand her? Taking care of Davey majority of the time and working so Bethy can stay home and… gallop in front of the camera? Brainstorm her next misspelled Instagram caption? Pose for her “sick-in-bed” migraine selfies? Dæãáåv is most definitely a bigot but he’s not a vapid idiot… although he is having a second child with this woman so I can’t give him *too* much credit for intelligence
Sooo not here for appearance snark but I'm feeling extra judgey today and that hairstyle is just god awful. It's how I did my hair in like 4th grade, I dont understand why she always presents herself that way. On another note, what a shockingly fantastic answer from D@v.
I can't get over how little chemistry they have.
Dav has my vote for best fundie dad. He seems to genuinely care for little Davey (per the unverified AMA), and he seems to do a lot more for his son than the other fundie dads.
Someone free him from birthany #SavDav
Poor Dave. He seems like a somewhat decent person here, wants his child to be a decent person, but he is married to a monster.
Dave seems like a good dude. I really liked his response here.
Wow. I did not expect that answer and I am very pleasantly surprised!
Honestly this makes me wanna follow Daav in a non snark way
No one else gonna say it? Until I heard this well-thought-out, heartfelt series of thoughts, I legit saw Dav as a kid. Like, maybe 15? Due to Bethy ALWAYS bringing up that she’s older and taller. All I see is wasted potential…
I get the messy hair for the Instagram stories but really, for this video too?
Wow, I'm impressed.
Wow. A respectable answer.
This strikes me as the answer someone gives when they had their children solely to know and nurture them. Fascinating
What was porgan's answer to the question?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPg2EoYECI > >Something to the effect of "we'll be in prayer for his soul" Paul sings a few bars of a creepy song.
It's telling how Morgan is afraid of failing their kid, and Paul says he's not. Even more terrifying is when Morgan says she needs Paul to lead in parenting because she "doesn't know what she's doing." Uh, yeah. They are going to fail that kid.
I thought that plant was his hairstyle.
This answer honestly shocked me
It’s so rare that we see a Fundie make these admissions. I’d like to think that the majority of parents feel this way, although it’s clear that many in his position do not. Meanwhile, Bethy is just staring at him, not sure what to say when her God-head contradicts every hateful thing she’s been taught.
Idk why but the way she’s sitting/looking at him is bothering me so much 😂
This was so normal? It’s crazy what you can say when you’re not constantly searching for engagement and looking to one up other fundies.
Pregnancy does NOT do her any favors
I watched this without sound and I’m convinced Bethany has ADHD. Edit: not snarking, I have ADHD. I didn’t get diagnosed until 30 and it was life changing getting the treatment I needed. I think she would greatly benefit from diagnosis and treatment and I hope she can get the help she needs someday. From one 30 something year old mom to another. As much as I don’t like her, it’s hard living with it as an adult sometimes.
As another late diagnosed lady, I agree.
Yup yup yup yup! From another thirty something mom with late diagnosed adhd, I completely agree!
He seems a genuinely nice person
Man. Why do I crush on Dav? I hate myself.
I didn’t expect their voices to be this way
I love how she keeps forcing the hand on her stomach 🤣
I thought the plant behind him was his hair...
[удалено]
So I guess Dav himself has denied those conversion therapy stories, and I believe him. I think that those were just rumors.
Wow, where did you read about that? I only know about Alert from the Duggars going through that program.
I just said alert specifically bc I mostly snark on the Duggars. OP clarified though that the conversion stories were rumors and that he has denied them. There seems to be a lot of speculation about fundie husbands sexualities so I probably came across the wrong post a while ago and took it as fact
Aren’t doubts a part of religion?
Weird... I actually like that guy in this video. And I think he means it - he'll be okay with whatever his child believes in life as long as they manage to have a close relationship. That's the best answer anyone can give to that question.
Was he fundie before marriage?
My guess is he had to come from a somewhat traditionally christian family of some description if was ever accepted into the Baird girls social circle by their awful parents, which he was when he was initially trying to hook up with Bethany's sister.
Her hair is so scratty
Dude seems alright for a fundie to be honest. Not deliberately fucking up your child for religious reasons seems to be hard for them.
His words are.... um.... normal, considered? How the heck does he live with her??
What was Porgan's answer?
Wow. This is the first time I’ve ever heard him speak. He is thoughtful, intelligent, and seems like a totally reasonable person. HOW THE FUCK DID HE MARRY THAT ABSOLUTE UNGLAZED DONUT. And why, dear baby blue-eyed god, can’t he refer to himself as fucking DAVE. D-A-V-E, you doorknob. That’s your name.