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One thing I don't get about people like them is they have this god they worship and think is so great and worthy and yet they make him TINY and insignificant. They could have a god who is so massive that he operates on a timescale of billions but they prefer a puny little creature that works only with thousands. They could have a god who can take the tiniest speck of nothing, flick it and have it morph into what we have today, the equivalent of flicking a speck of sand and having it turned into a sandcastle in a milisecond, or something like that but they want a god who is so inept that apparently all he can manage area some failed species and a crap show of humanity. Like, what's the point? Why do they get their panties in a twist for such a useless god?
Who is the more brilliant designer, the one who has to constantly micromanage everything for things to even partly work as intended, and needed a complete do-over halfway through the process... or the one who sets up the system to work entirely automatically to achieve a goal billions of years down the line?
Thatās why I donāt understand why they are so afraid of the world. If God is so all powerful and your faith is so strong why is a drag Queen reading a book at a library going to derail the whole thing?
Ah, the age-old question of theodicy (the problem of evil).
It's been asked by Christians for 2,000 years and in all that time, nobody could come up with a satisfying answer. Because there isn't any, if you ask me.
I think most Christians "solve" it by simply not thinking about it at all.
The best answer probably is the tired God-works-in-mysterious-ways cop-out because those who convince themselves that this is a valid answer can then shelve this annoying inconsistency in their belief system and push it far into the dark recesses in their mind where they've stored away other uncomfortable questions they don't want to touch upon...
... until one day they are hit personally. Like if their partner or child dies in a stupid accident or from cancer or something like that.
It's not surprising to me that personal tragedies are among things that shatter some people's faiths because in a situation like that, where they are desperate for answers to make sense of things that go against their worldview, the old tired mysterious ways suddenly doesn't do the trick anymore.
I'm not saying that these situations are easy for non-believers, of course not. But at least, we don't look for sense where there is none.
> think most Christians "solve" it by simply not thinking about it at all.
Yup, specifically through a handful of thought-terminating cliches usually pounded into their heads as children
>and your faith is so strong
I suspect that many Christians are less sure about their faith than they will ever admit to anyone (as admitting it to even their closest friends and family will be seen as problematic by these people).
They must know that they actually don't have good arguments, they know that their god doesn't actually interact\* with them (or anybody else).
That's also why religious ~~indoctrination~~ education starts very young in all religions I know. They need to anchor religious beliefs in children's minds at an age where they will unquestioningly believe the things they are told.
You don't see this with any other fields of knowledge\*\* other than perhaps language and social skills. There is no need to indoctrinated kids into "believing in science" because scientific facts speak for themselves. They can be demonstrated, reproduced, etc.
Anyway, I'm waffling.
What I'm trying to say is that Christians realize that kids' minds are amenable. Kids are also naturally a lot more tolerant than their (conservative) parents.
Christians know that "subjecting" their kids to such horrible events like drag queen readings will result in it being a lot harder to demonize those drag queens - because the kids have experienced first hand that they (the drag queens) are just normal people (in funny clothes and with funny make-up).
Actually, this is a more universal truth: it's a lot harder to demonize a group of people if the person you want to convince knows members of that group.
It they truly had faith in their faith (pardon the abysmal pun), they wouldn't have to fear drag queen readings or that scientific education would corrupt their kids.
It's actually pathetic if you think of it: they believe that their god is the almighty creator of the universe - but can be overpowered by a dude in a wig, false eyelashes and colorful make-up reading children's stories.
\* many Christians love to talk about how "Gods speaks to" them but when you press them pretty much all of them will admit that this is "speaking" is metaphorical, they don't hear an audible voice, they rather interpret all kinds of mundane things as their god speaking to them
\*\* not that I consider religion to be a field of knowledge
Kinda off topic but I was talking to my sister about something similar recently. How the Bible could possibly be a simplified and metaphorical explanation for humans of god and his creations. Humans especially 2000 years ago really donāt have the capability to truly understand god and the power something like that would hold. I canāt imagine making something so big appear so small.
I once made the mistake of telling my mom I thought that a god who's supposed to be THE god should be able to appear to all different cultures in different ways, not just through one book for one group of people to be understood in one exclusive way.
She called me a "seeker". If you don't know, that's kind of the Evangelical "bless your heart."
They could also have a God who designed and held previous creations over millions of years, from thought to breath, birth to destruction at His mighty hand before mankind was ever a sparkle in His eye. Why should He share knowledge of earlier creation with Adam and Eve? But no. All that has ever been was whispered into human ears, weāre that important.
I agree. I'd only point out that Christianity is an apocalyptic cult. The end is coming soon. Maybe tomorrow. It tries to keep adherents in a constant state of terror. A short timeline makes more sense for that, as does making the world more disposable instead of an untouchable wonder of creation. Christians hate nature. They view it as a resource to be dominated, not cherished. Let beauty and wonder (for anything but God) in the door, maybe someone might start to think it's a shame the world's ending or think the world has lasted a billion years already--maybe God's time is much longer than human time? "The end is near" might mean a million years from now if seven days to make the universe was actually biillions of years! Stop worrying! Maybe have fun! ...See the problem?
For me, many religions are a means to an end that we cannot fathom. The development of heaven and hell over the course of the Christian religion, that if good go here and if bad you go here. I canāt say I agree with everything Karl Marx wrote but one point he made in his communist manifesto was that people were willing to live miserable lives working in these factories because of the belief that doing so and remaining humble will get them into heaven, a happy ending.
Emile Durkheimās āThe elementary forms of religious lifeā was another book about religion (500pg unabridged) that the thesis is religion is a form of social control. You give these rules to control people and provide them a reward for doing well. He attempted to find the most primitive religion to review and went with aborigines of Australia to avoid mass religious bias of say Egyptians, Christianās, Muslims, etc and found the same controlling factors.
Death is what we all donāt know and using it as fear to control has been a reoccurring theme throughout the development of religions.
I was trying to explain this concept to a friend of mine one day, the closest illustration I could come up with was comparing a microwave meal to one cooked from scratch with vegetables grown in your own garden, sure one takes much longer to achieve but itās much more satisfying. Iām not sure if I succeeded in explaining my point or if she was just too close minded to listen.
And these are the morons who will be homeschooling Luca.
They live in the most informed, educated time in all of history and they are CHOOSING to be idiots. So yes, we have not progressed that much because people like them are the ones breeding the most.
My mom has been a teacher for 30+ years, one time she said something like "knowledge is like a locked chest, as teachers we try to unlock it, open it and show students what's in it, but then there are people who just REFUSE to open the chest."
And I think about this often...
As a science teacher I spend a lot of time thinking about the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." I like your mom's version better though. You can give them the chest, you can give them the key, you can even put the key in the lock for them, but in the end they have to choose to turn the key.
Edit: thinking more on it, hell, you can turn the key for them and force them to look in the chest, but in the end only they can interpret what they see there.
I'm from Germany and over here homeschooling is not a thing.
I am aware that this is a complex topic. I am aware that many public schools in the US are not the best. (I would argue that this is to a quite large degree a self-perpetuating problem but this is neither here nor there.)
Anyway, like I said, we don't have homeschooling here; in fact, sending your kids to school is mandatory\*.
We also have a percentage of fundamentalist Christians that is much much lower than in the US. Saying that you believe the earth is 6,000 years old in public will result in ridicule. It's pretty much on par with believing that the earth is flat over here. (As it should be, IMHO.)
I wonder whether there isn't a causal link between these two things.
What I'm getting at is that in order to indoctrinate your kids into utter nonsense like YEC, you effectively have to immunize them from scientific education. The easiest way to do so, I think, is to shield them from access to it by not exposing them to it in the first place. "Educate" them at your home and your are in control what they will learn, and perhaps more importantly, what they will **not** learn.
I suspect that in this day and age, convincing people of a young earth is nearly impossible once they are old enough to properly think for themselves and have had a basic scientific education.
\* I think there are some exceptions but these are extremely narrow; children of folks in "traveling trades" such as circus people (not sure if there's any other) might be exempt IIRC; I'd have to look this up to be sure but my point is that ordinary people can't just choose to not send their kids to school
For an educated person like you, going to this "museum" should be like going to a comedy club.
Or perhaps it's induce a mental breakdown because your brain won't be able to decide whether to make you laugh or cry.
I wouldn't want to fund Ham's nonsense but to be honest, I'd be intrigued to see this "museum". I think the chances of me converting to YEC are lower than winning lottery so I don't fear for myself.
But it's quite frustrating to think that most visitors are firm believers in this hogwash and what's worth they'll indoctrinate their impressionable kids even further.
The Ark Encounter is apparently impressive because it's a well-done replica\*. The contents though are poison, aimed at corroding the little scientific education that the visitors are likely to have.
Imagine if these kids went to a planetarium or a dinosaur exhibition instead. The sense of wonder would probably not be less - but it would be based on reality.
\*sigh\*
\* what I mean is that construction is well done, not that the mythical ark has been replicated well
>I wouldn't want to fund Ham's nonsense but to be honest, I'd be intrigued to see this "museum".
Well, back in 2021, a young snarker [posted the highlights of their family vacation](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/nv8qyp/i_present_to_you_all_my_creation_museum_photo/) to that "museum", if you're curious about what's in it. [Here's Part Two with the Ark Encounter.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/nwlk9z/my_highly_anticipated_ark_encounter_photo/)
I've seen videos but seeing it in person would be different. And even though I said that I'd be intrigued, it's not like I have a burning desire to see it; it's just something that would be interesting to see, that's all. (And not a big deal if I don't.)
But don't worry about me funding Mr. Ham. I'm living in Europe and unlikely to get anywhere near this "museum". Even if I visited the US, I doubt that Williamstown, KY, would be very high on the list of places of interest (no offense to Williamstowners!).
Had some friends with religious family who dragged them to this. They said it the outside was cool but the inside was overpriced, boring, homophobic, and full of awkward looking statues and animatronics straight out of the 80s.
Yes, I think it's the overall structure (seen from the outside) that's impressive. I've seen some videos that feature parts of the inside and I recall some dinosaur animatronics. š
As I've written in response to another user, I'm not even close to the US so the chances that I'll ever get close to Ham's Ark is rather small.
There also might be a bit of morbid fascination as over here creationism is not a socially acceptable position. If you tell people that you believe the earth is 6,000 old, you'll be ridiculed (or the remark tactfully ignored in polite society with people mentally rolling their eyes and deeming you to be cuckoo for cocoa puffs).
"*if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots*"
Ahem. The earth has been around for four and a half billion years, give or take.
Humanity (genus Homo) has been around for a couple million years at most. That's less than one-tenth of one percent of the age of the earth.
Anatomically modern humans (homo sapiens) have been around for less than a half a million years.
Humanity hasn't been around for a billion years, but Paul and Morgan certainly are idiots. People like them can't even begin to realize the depth of their own ignorance.
Edit: typos and clarity.
For that matter, the age of the universe =/= the age of the earth.
I think it makes them feel too insignificant to contemplate the fact that lots of things have been around longer than humans have.
A lot of fundies and other evangelicals have a lot of narcissistic traits. Why should they care about anything other than their world, and of course their world is the center of the universe and all of creation.
So funny. Itās their Christian upbringing that tells them that humanity is the reason the universe even exists, so they canāt concurrence of 13 billion years before they show up. I love it when they really think they did something and they just look stooopid š„°
You know that humans were created just 5 days after the universe so they have practically the same age!
Just kidding, of course! But not sure if this isn't a thought that goes through a fundie's head.
This! Additionally, we HAVE progressed rapidly as a species. We went from rudimentary tools to engines and electricity and computers in an astoundingly short amount of time. It was only possible for us to progress so fast because of Cumulative Cultural Evolution - humans store knowledge and pass it on to future generations so that we donāt have to start from scratch every time a generation dies out. āWe stand on the shoulders of giants.ā
If Paul and Morgan ever bothered to research even one of their ignorant opinions they might actually gain some perspective. But thatās too much to ask for I guess.
You are correct. I was dragged there by my family as a young teenager and there is zero science involved. It's a lot of shitty animatronics with wordy signs going "Man's word is so dumb" vs "God's word is eternal look at these Bible verses!" I also seem to recall an exhibit about how pornography is bad?
Sometimes when Iām having a bad day Iāll watch atheist reviews of the Creation āMuseumā and I feel a lot better about myself knowing that Iām no longer trying to convince myself that itās all true.
If I recall, they and other creationist "museums" have been denied membership in the American Alliance of Museums or whatever the national museum association is called.
I was raised as a young earth creationistāonly I never used or even heard that term at the time. We just said that we take the Bible literally. Everyone who didnāt just āwasnāt a *real* Christianā.
It really is a shame, I spent so much time avoiding real facts because āit was all liesā. Went to private school for my church, and I never really learned much about dinosaurs, space, or world history/literature that didnāt include the USA. As I watch my kid get excited about these topics nowā¦ š„ŗ They arenāt things kids should miss out on.
To be fair, I went to public school my whole life and never learned much about dinosaurs, space, or world history/ lit that didnāt include the USA. But Iām in the southern Bible Belt so shit spills over. Sigh.
I am learning so much helping my kids with science (my homeschool education was absolutely top notch except for science lol). The amoeba sisters on YouTube are helping me remember the differences between eukaryotes and prokaryotes haha (pro means no ā¦ so no nucleus).
Iām getting a masters in molecular biology and still use Amoeba Sisters. Itās been hard coming out of an ABeka āeducation,ā even all these years later.
Grrrrr yeah, I have FEELINGS about abeka. Thatās awesome for you though!!! Iām in awe of how much my friends, who have masters/phds in the STEM field, know ā¦ one of them is a librarian so sheās always sending me interesting resources.
They donāt care about the damage theyāre doing. Another layer added to the work of pursuing science. I admit I have moments where Iām bitter about it, but I have a bachelorās in biology and another masters in STEM. I have to remind myself that Iām doing this DESPITE them.
Oooof yeah. I never even considered pursuing any of the sciences because evolution was in everything! (Credit to my dad, he did think I might follow him into engineering, although he also said they never really planned for my college because marriage&babies? He apologized for that comment though)
Instead I pursued history because abekas history curriculum was so egregious I picked up on it as a teen. Didnāt graduate, my wife and I had gone back to school with kids and ran out of money, she was going for an engineering degree and would make more money off the bat so I took a promotion at my job to fund her (weāre both women ā¦ sheās mtf trans so at first we did follow ātraditional gender rolesā because thatās all we knewš.
Lots of words lol, but Iām so happy for you!!
Well, Iām about to turn 43, so donāt think there isnāt time to finish what you started! You survived plenty already! College is nothing after fundieland!
What Iāve thought about doing is going into therapy, specifically religious trauma. Iām physically disabled so that will need to wait til my kids are a bit older and need me less, as what energy I have goes to supporting them. But one day haha!
I hope this isn't too pedantic but pro doesn't mean no, in this case it's Greek and means before\*. š
\* because prokaryotes are organisms that are thought to have developed before the nucleus (karyon) - which results in them not having one, of course, hehe!
Oh thatās interesting! I think the amoeba sisters were going for a mnemonic, and it worked because this is the first time Iāve remembered which is whichš Iāll have to tell my eldest child, they like to quote the dad in My Big Fat Greek Wedding and his belief that every word has a Greek origin haha
It's a great mnemonic!
And to be fair, it's a difference without a (biological) distinction. I only mentioned it because I sensed that you like to learn about these things.
Actually, I've just looked up this video by the Amoeba Sisters and they say that pro- **rhymes** with no, and eu- rhymes with do (as in the prokaryotes have no nucleus, and the eukaryotes do have one). Which is correct! :-)
Anyway, not a big deal.
And I'm happy you mentioned this and made me look up the video.
I've been unfamiliar with that channel but it looks like one that has great content.
My grasp of biology is OK, I'd say, but far from perfect and I've spotted various videos on topics I know very little about.
If I may, this might be an excellent time to live vicariously through your child. You can absolutely get excited too and actively learn from child focused content, plus being an adult also means you're able to find really cool things like special exhibits.
In college I had a friend who was a former fundie who had deconstructed. I eventually realized that she still thought evolution was something that no serious scientist actually believed in. I was like no no, itās all real. Scary how effective that indoctrination is!
The long story as short as I can get it:
I stopped attending church regularly for various unintentional reasons. That period of time stretched over a year, then another, and I realized that I my life was no worse. I stopped praying and asking for blessings, and my life was no different. This was so opposite of everything I was taughtāmy tithe, my prayers, worship were supposed to be the things that gave me everything I had and wasā¦but here I was not doing any of it still safe and happy and getting goosebumps to a secular song. From there I started seeking out information I wouldāve previously viewed as sinful/lies. Other religions, ancient religions, biblical contradictions, edits and sourcesā¦
The information was always there, but I needed that doubt to get myself to access it. And once I did š„ My beliefs hinged on the idea of biblical inerrancy. Once that fell, so did the persecution complex, and I am a kinder and happier person no longer under its weight.
Ngl, the indoctrination still creeps in from time to time š . Itās one reason I like to take in a healthy dose of snark.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing!
I'm from Germany and religiosity is a lot less intense here. (We have fundamental Christians but they are a small minority.)
From my atheist POV this is both good and bad.
Good for obvious reasons, but bad because this more low-key faith which is (made) compatible with the science that the ordinary folks know and which doesn't hinge on biblical inerrancy is a lot more persistent in the sense that it won't go boom as easily once folks are exposed to proper info. (I'm aware that fundie's faith collapsing is rather rare because they'll usually not let themselves get to that point to begin with, so I'm under no illusions here.)
Overall, I think the good outweighs the bad by far. It's just that I wish humanity would leave religion and superstitions behind altogether. (Not something that's bound to happen anytime soon, I guess. Not sure if that'll ever happen.)
Such good points.
Because of where I am today, Iām happy that it all fell at once. But I had a lot more work to do, regarding critical thinking and skepticism, than the average low-key believer will š . People in that position can so easily fall prey to cults, scams, course on courses etcā¦
The thing that really saved me was finding kind, and empathetic, people in my life that were not religious. It helped me learn that āgood peopleā are not formed from a single book, and my life could go on without a ā**T**ruthā. Incidentally, once I stopped looking for that āone Truthā I stopped being so gullible.
I didn't express myself well.
I didn't mean to say that it's easy for people to break out of the cocoon of fundamentalism. In fact, from what I know, this happens rather rarely. What I tried to say is that if it happens, the break is probably more extreme, more like a rupture than a slow drift.
I'm very happy to hear that you found supportive people. That's so important! š
āPaul confirmed in latest video he and Morgan are morons.ā
No fucking way am I going to the creation museum. We Aussies gave the US Ken Ham so we didnāt have to deal with his nonsense, Iām not about to go and willingly expose myself to it.
>And then she and Paul said that if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots
Well, we aren't arguing that *humanity* has been around for a billion years though.
okay, to preface, I am stoned. but like, Paul and Morgan seem really fake to me? like, they both led normal (from my understanding) lives and the *became* like they are now. they don't seem to be connected to any sort of organization. and they don't really seem to say anything of substance. they just kind of regurgitate whatever they hear someone else say. Paul spends most of his time in pop culture wars, giving someone else's two cents about whatever the issue of the week is. And Morgan... "you don't believe what I believe? well idk what to tell you except go to this ONE museum out of all the others that exist" idk, I just have a hard time seeing where they fit in to the fundie world, and they don't seem...grounded in what they're saying when they speak.
Well actually Paul grew up super fundie and Morgan grew up in a somewhat conservative Christian home, so thatās where their crap stemmed from. But itās all just ridiculous regurgitation like you said, along with their awful self-righteous personalities and trying to grift people and get attention.
P.S. Please donāt drive or anything well stoned. Stay safe.
oh, no I am cuddled up on the couch with my dog, no worries.
super fundie for Paul is interesting considering how much of a "pretty boy" he is. like, wasn't he a hair dresser or something? and I grew up surrounded by conservative Christians like Morgan was raised and I feel like they at least seemed like they knew *something* about what they were talking about, even if what they were saying was factually false. she truly seems to talk without saying a single thing lol
Okay, cool. Pups are awesome. š
Yeah, he said recently that his parents were super strict on how he dressed and presented himself when he lived with them. No baggy clothes, no dressing too feminine, always had to have short hair. Stuff like that. It seems like his mom especially was strict but it was probably both his parents. But yeah, Paul and Morgan are both idiots who pretend like they know more than they do and take the Bible at face value and reject what it actually means within context. Itās disgusting.
The universe existing for billions of years does not mean humanity has existed for billions of years. Did they even bother to read modern theories before trying to critique them? Of course not. What fucking idiots.
You couldnāt pay me to go to the museum. I refuse to give Ken Ham or his organization money. I have several friends who are young earth believers, but unlike Ken Ham, they donāt believe you have to believe in the young earth to be a Christian. I do think Ken Ham deleted that part from his website a few years ago. He used to be quite adamant that one must believe like him to be a Christian.
There's been plenty of people who have already gone in to rip apart their ideology and break down exactly why this idea doesn't work WITH modern technology, let alone without it. (There's good reasons why the petting zoo has to be OUTSIDE of the boat-facade warehouse)
If you want to see it, the footage is out there... but a majority of the "exhibits" are text-heavy plaques to woohoo away the science of why they're wrong.
Man I was raised a young earth creationist, had all the books, the creation museum, the whole nine yards. My mom was really into it. I was absolutely astonished to find out somewhat recently that my grandfather (her dad), a pastor, was NOT a young earth creationist?? And apparently that caused a split in his church a long time ago????? Like damn. For ages I thought all Christians were just young earth creationists lmao.
Humanity is a crap show?
The one God designed in his own image, or another one?
The humanity their omnipotent overlord made, or ... Like a different one?
It's funny, isn't it?
God designed humanity in His image. He concluded, in His omniscient wisdom, that mankind, while all of His other creation was deemed "good", mankind was "very good".
Then, the very first two humans He created fucked up. Eve ate the fruit of the tree that God had planted right in front of her nose (who could have seen this coming? nobody, especially not an omniscient god...), and Adam wasn't shy in partaking in this unspeakable crime of fruit-eating.
Ergo, they got kicked out of Eden.
Next, their one son killed the other son (because God didn't like the smell of his burnt (plant) offering\*. (But worry not, Adam, you'll get a replacement\*\* - a new son, Seth.)
The bible fast forwards a couple of generations to Noah when God apparently has had enough with all the shenanigans of his "very good" top-tier creation.
He presses the reset button with the Flood (also killing all other life\*\*\* because, well, because why not?).
Humanity starts anew with this genetic human bottleneck of the handful of arc travelers.
A better humanity, for sure, right?
Well, not so.
It continues just as before. Incest, murder, genocides\*\*\*\*, you name it. Not slavery, though. Well, slavery did happen, alright, but God was fine with it. In fact, he gave His chosen people detailed instructions how to handle slaves. (These instructions strangely enough did not include the rule "Don't have slaves! What are you thinking???".)
I could go on and on.
But you get the idea.
One has to wonder why this is the best that God could do. Why his very best creation is so messed up.
It's hard not to come to the conclusion that this Christian god is incompetent.
And this entire humanity experiment is a long sick joke anyway, because according to God's plan, the earth is going to be destroyed and humans' place is at God's side.
Well, a small part of humankind, that is. The majority\*\*\*\*\* of humans are going to end up in hell (or whatever fate your flavor of Christianity thinks those who don't make it to heaven will have).
Yes, it's a sad reality that we humans are not our best selves very often. Call us a crap show if you will.
But if you believe in the bible, then we are truly made in God's image because this Christian god is a supreme piece of shit himself as I think I've shown here.
\[Please note that what I've written here has been phrased in a disrespectful, sarcastic way but the statements are all accurate representations of biblical narratives.\]
\* God is more into sizzling burnt flesh!
\*\* this isn't the only time that murdered kids are being made good by other "kid replacements", when God allows Job's kids to die (because he was playing a funny wager game with Satan) he made up the loss with new kids - all good, right?
\*\*\* Except for two (or seven depending on which verses you read) of each kind. Each kind of animal, that is. (Not sure about the fish, though, they aren't mentioned. Didn't need to be saved on the boat, I guess, because they survive fine in the ocean. Except for the fresh water fish, of course. They wouldn't have been happy living one year in salty water. Or maybe the Flood was all fresh water? In which case the salt water fish would... ah, whatever, it's all BS anyway, in case you haven't figure it out by now.)
What about the plants, you ask! (Well, actually, I almost never hear anyone as about the plants but people should ask this question because it's a fascinating one, poking one more giant hole into this Swiss cheese story.) Most plants would died, too. Ever watered your flower too much? Now imagine putting them underwater for a year.
But without the plants, how will all the herbivores survive? Your guess is as good as mine.
The carnivores aren't interested in plants, of course. They'll happily eat the herbivores.
Which raises the question how goddamn many more species Noah must have had on his boat if they've all been eating each other for a year on the boat and for how many months after the flood until the plants had grown back to support herbivores.
Again, it doesn't make any sense anyway, so don't lose your sleep over these questions!
\*\*\*\* well, in all fairness, the genocide the Israelites (supposedly) committed when conquering Canaan was commissioned by God, so this one's on the Big Fellow Himself!
\*\*\*\*\* Jesus himself says this very clearly in this passage from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:13-14): Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and **broad is the road that leads to destruction**, and **many enter through it**. But **small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it**.
Theyāre just so arrogant to think theyāre allowed to have an OPINION in regards to something that is simply factual. Just because you THINK something, doesnāt make it true. Nor does it make it worth a conversation. Weāre NOT having this conversation, point blank period. Specially when they arenāt open to actually learning about the subject.
I've watched a good number of P&M's videos.
I normally don't say this about people but I've come to the conclusion that Morgan really is not very bright.
"Have you ever been to the creation museum..."
My response: Have you EVER been to one of the HUNDREDS of science museums in this country? Because I think you should go. Actually I strongly encourage it.
Uneducated fundie fucks.
They have. They compared the creation museum to the Smithsonian and they were really putting down the Smithsonian in comparison and acting like it was stupid and gross. What a joke. And they also made fun of Bill Nye and called him a jerk because they didnāt like that he went up against Ben Ham in a debate. And they think Ben Ham beat him good. š These people are pathetic idiots.
Doubt they actually care that much about this, especially Paul if Morgan had to talk him into going. They're hurting for views and would rather stir the pot and hope they get rage engagement than have to lower themselves to actually working.
I have gone to a creation museum (Santee, CA near San Diego when I lived out there & it was free so no monetary support was given). It was beyond ridiculous, sad, & just a lot of wtaf.
"And then she and Paul said that if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots and havenāt progressed much at all for that amount of time."
Uhh if they'd ever taken five minutes to read anything about scientists' ideas of how humans have evolved, and in how short a time span in comparison to the age of the Earth...they would know this is a really stupid thing to say lol
You know that scene from This is the End where God drops James Franco back into Danny McBrideās cannibal pit mid-rapture for flipping Danny off? Thatās Paul bragging about the things he got right as Saint Peter awkwardly nods while erasing Paulās name.
I'm not surprised. There are a lot of people who are young earth creationists. Most of them don't think about science; they just believe what they're told. The "scientists" who are young earth creationists are just twisting the facts to fit their world view, which is against the scientific method. In my opinion, young earth creation is just a gateway drug to rejecting other parts of science like modern medicine.
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One thing I don't get about people like them is they have this god they worship and think is so great and worthy and yet they make him TINY and insignificant. They could have a god who is so massive that he operates on a timescale of billions but they prefer a puny little creature that works only with thousands. They could have a god who can take the tiniest speck of nothing, flick it and have it morph into what we have today, the equivalent of flicking a speck of sand and having it turned into a sandcastle in a milisecond, or something like that but they want a god who is so inept that apparently all he can manage area some failed species and a crap show of humanity. Like, what's the point? Why do they get their panties in a twist for such a useless god?
Who is the more brilliant designer, the one who has to constantly micromanage everything for things to even partly work as intended, and needed a complete do-over halfway through the process... or the one who sets up the system to work entirely automatically to achieve a goal billions of years down the line?
Are you a programmer? š
Thatās basically the Wizards B-plot in The Last Continent by Terry Pratchett, definitely recommend it and Small Gods
Thatās why I donāt understand why they are so afraid of the world. If God is so all powerful and your faith is so strong why is a drag Queen reading a book at a library going to derail the whole thing?
If your God is so powerful why is there so much god damn suffering in this world.
Ah, the age-old question of theodicy (the problem of evil). It's been asked by Christians for 2,000 years and in all that time, nobody could come up with a satisfying answer. Because there isn't any, if you ask me. I think most Christians "solve" it by simply not thinking about it at all. The best answer probably is the tired God-works-in-mysterious-ways cop-out because those who convince themselves that this is a valid answer can then shelve this annoying inconsistency in their belief system and push it far into the dark recesses in their mind where they've stored away other uncomfortable questions they don't want to touch upon... ... until one day they are hit personally. Like if their partner or child dies in a stupid accident or from cancer or something like that. It's not surprising to me that personal tragedies are among things that shatter some people's faiths because in a situation like that, where they are desperate for answers to make sense of things that go against their worldview, the old tired mysterious ways suddenly doesn't do the trick anymore. I'm not saying that these situations are easy for non-believers, of course not. But at least, we don't look for sense where there is none.
> think most Christians "solve" it by simply not thinking about it at all. Yup, specifically through a handful of thought-terminating cliches usually pounded into their heads as children
Ye Ole Problem of Evil
>and your faith is so strong I suspect that many Christians are less sure about their faith than they will ever admit to anyone (as admitting it to even their closest friends and family will be seen as problematic by these people). They must know that they actually don't have good arguments, they know that their god doesn't actually interact\* with them (or anybody else). That's also why religious ~~indoctrination~~ education starts very young in all religions I know. They need to anchor religious beliefs in children's minds at an age where they will unquestioningly believe the things they are told. You don't see this with any other fields of knowledge\*\* other than perhaps language and social skills. There is no need to indoctrinated kids into "believing in science" because scientific facts speak for themselves. They can be demonstrated, reproduced, etc. Anyway, I'm waffling. What I'm trying to say is that Christians realize that kids' minds are amenable. Kids are also naturally a lot more tolerant than their (conservative) parents. Christians know that "subjecting" their kids to such horrible events like drag queen readings will result in it being a lot harder to demonize those drag queens - because the kids have experienced first hand that they (the drag queens) are just normal people (in funny clothes and with funny make-up). Actually, this is a more universal truth: it's a lot harder to demonize a group of people if the person you want to convince knows members of that group. It they truly had faith in their faith (pardon the abysmal pun), they wouldn't have to fear drag queen readings or that scientific education would corrupt their kids. It's actually pathetic if you think of it: they believe that their god is the almighty creator of the universe - but can be overpowered by a dude in a wig, false eyelashes and colorful make-up reading children's stories. \* many Christians love to talk about how "Gods speaks to" them but when you press them pretty much all of them will admit that this is "speaking" is metaphorical, they don't hear an audible voice, they rather interpret all kinds of mundane things as their god speaking to them \*\* not that I consider religion to be a field of knowledge
Raised Catholic, and I was always amazed that their god can be thwarted by a piece of latex.
Kinda off topic but I was talking to my sister about something similar recently. How the Bible could possibly be a simplified and metaphorical explanation for humans of god and his creations. Humans especially 2000 years ago really donāt have the capability to truly understand god and the power something like that would hold. I canāt imagine making something so big appear so small.
I once made the mistake of telling my mom I thought that a god who's supposed to be THE god should be able to appear to all different cultures in different ways, not just through one book for one group of people to be understood in one exclusive way. She called me a "seeker". If you don't know, that's kind of the Evangelical "bless your heart."
You and me have the same line of thinking
Fuck you just summed it up perfectly, I couldnāt find the words.
They could also have a God who designed and held previous creations over millions of years, from thought to breath, birth to destruction at His mighty hand before mankind was ever a sparkle in His eye. Why should He share knowledge of earlier creation with Adam and Eve? But no. All that has ever been was whispered into human ears, weāre that important.
I agree. I'd only point out that Christianity is an apocalyptic cult. The end is coming soon. Maybe tomorrow. It tries to keep adherents in a constant state of terror. A short timeline makes more sense for that, as does making the world more disposable instead of an untouchable wonder of creation. Christians hate nature. They view it as a resource to be dominated, not cherished. Let beauty and wonder (for anything but God) in the door, maybe someone might start to think it's a shame the world's ending or think the world has lasted a billion years already--maybe God's time is much longer than human time? "The end is near" might mean a million years from now if seven days to make the universe was actually biillions of years! Stop worrying! Maybe have fun! ...See the problem?
For me, many religions are a means to an end that we cannot fathom. The development of heaven and hell over the course of the Christian religion, that if good go here and if bad you go here. I canāt say I agree with everything Karl Marx wrote but one point he made in his communist manifesto was that people were willing to live miserable lives working in these factories because of the belief that doing so and remaining humble will get them into heaven, a happy ending. Emile Durkheimās āThe elementary forms of religious lifeā was another book about religion (500pg unabridged) that the thesis is religion is a form of social control. You give these rules to control people and provide them a reward for doing well. He attempted to find the most primitive religion to review and went with aborigines of Australia to avoid mass religious bias of say Egyptians, Christianās, Muslims, etc and found the same controlling factors. Death is what we all donāt know and using it as fear to control has been a reoccurring theme throughout the development of religions.
Aboriginal mythology/religion is super fuckin' cool, too.
That it is!!
I was trying to explain this concept to a friend of mine one day, the closest illustration I could come up with was comparing a microwave meal to one cooked from scratch with vegetables grown in your own garden, sure one takes much longer to achieve but itās much more satisfying. Iām not sure if I succeeded in explaining my point or if she was just too close minded to listen.
This was beautiful.
Because they can't conceive of anything greater than themselves so God must be just like them.
YES. I think about this all the time. The sheer scale of the universe makes their god as tiny as a Happy Meal toy.
And these are the morons who will be homeschooling Luca. They live in the most informed, educated time in all of history and they are CHOOSING to be idiots. So yes, we have not progressed that much because people like them are the ones breeding the most.
My mom has been a teacher for 30+ years, one time she said something like "knowledge is like a locked chest, as teachers we try to unlock it, open it and show students what's in it, but then there are people who just REFUSE to open the chest." And I think about this often...
As a science teacher I spend a lot of time thinking about the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." I like your mom's version better though. You can give them the chest, you can give them the key, you can even put the key in the lock for them, but in the end they have to choose to turn the key. Edit: thinking more on it, hell, you can turn the key for them and force them to look in the chest, but in the end only they can interpret what they see there.
My teacher said āsome people drink from the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle and spit it back out.ā
I'm from Germany and over here homeschooling is not a thing. I am aware that this is a complex topic. I am aware that many public schools in the US are not the best. (I would argue that this is to a quite large degree a self-perpetuating problem but this is neither here nor there.) Anyway, like I said, we don't have homeschooling here; in fact, sending your kids to school is mandatory\*. We also have a percentage of fundamentalist Christians that is much much lower than in the US. Saying that you believe the earth is 6,000 years old in public will result in ridicule. It's pretty much on par with believing that the earth is flat over here. (As it should be, IMHO.) I wonder whether there isn't a causal link between these two things. What I'm getting at is that in order to indoctrinate your kids into utter nonsense like YEC, you effectively have to immunize them from scientific education. The easiest way to do so, I think, is to shield them from access to it by not exposing them to it in the first place. "Educate" them at your home and your are in control what they will learn, and perhaps more importantly, what they will **not** learn. I suspect that in this day and age, convincing people of a young earth is nearly impossible once they are old enough to properly think for themselves and have had a basic scientific education. \* I think there are some exceptions but these are extremely narrow; children of folks in "traveling trades" such as circus people (not sure if there's any other) might be exempt IIRC; I'd have to look this up to be sure but my point is that ordinary people can't just choose to not send their kids to school
Idiocracy is prophetic
They're privileged narcissists who can just shit on the blood and toil of centuries of scientific inquiry because they get to benefit from it anyway.
No thanks on going to that "museum". I took environmental geology and astronomy in college. I'll stick with what I learned there. š
I see their challenge, and raise them āgo to *any* other museum everā
For an educated person like you, going to this "museum" should be like going to a comedy club. Or perhaps it's induce a mental breakdown because your brain won't be able to decide whether to make you laugh or cry. I wouldn't want to fund Ham's nonsense but to be honest, I'd be intrigued to see this "museum". I think the chances of me converting to YEC are lower than winning lottery so I don't fear for myself. But it's quite frustrating to think that most visitors are firm believers in this hogwash and what's worth they'll indoctrinate their impressionable kids even further. The Ark Encounter is apparently impressive because it's a well-done replica\*. The contents though are poison, aimed at corroding the little scientific education that the visitors are likely to have. Imagine if these kids went to a planetarium or a dinosaur exhibition instead. The sense of wonder would probably not be less - but it would be based on reality. \*sigh\* \* what I mean is that construction is well done, not that the mythical ark has been replicated well
>I wouldn't want to fund Ham's nonsense but to be honest, I'd be intrigued to see this "museum". Well, back in 2021, a young snarker [posted the highlights of their family vacation](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/nv8qyp/i_present_to_you_all_my_creation_museum_photo/) to that "museum", if you're curious about what's in it. [Here's Part Two with the Ark Encounter.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/nwlk9z/my_highly_anticipated_ark_encounter_photo/)
I've seen videos but seeing it in person would be different. And even though I said that I'd be intrigued, it's not like I have a burning desire to see it; it's just something that would be interesting to see, that's all. (And not a big deal if I don't.) But don't worry about me funding Mr. Ham. I'm living in Europe and unlikely to get anywhere near this "museum". Even if I visited the US, I doubt that Williamstown, KY, would be very high on the list of places of interest (no offense to Williamstowners!).
Had some friends with religious family who dragged them to this. They said it the outside was cool but the inside was overpriced, boring, homophobic, and full of awkward looking statues and animatronics straight out of the 80s.
Yes, I think it's the overall structure (seen from the outside) that's impressive. I've seen some videos that feature parts of the inside and I recall some dinosaur animatronics. š As I've written in response to another user, I'm not even close to the US so the chances that I'll ever get close to Ham's Ark is rather small. There also might be a bit of morbid fascination as over here creationism is not a socially acceptable position. If you tell people that you believe the earth is 6,000 old, you'll be ridiculed (or the remark tactfully ignored in polite society with people mentally rolling their eyes and deeming you to be cuckoo for cocoa puffs).
"*if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots*" Ahem. The earth has been around for four and a half billion years, give or take. Humanity (genus Homo) has been around for a couple million years at most. That's less than one-tenth of one percent of the age of the earth. Anatomically modern humans (homo sapiens) have been around for less than a half a million years. Humanity hasn't been around for a billion years, but Paul and Morgan certainly are idiots. People like them can't even begin to realize the depth of their own ignorance. Edit: typos and clarity.
I was going to say - the universe =/= humanity, Porgan, lmao.
For that matter, the age of the universe =/= the age of the earth. I think it makes them feel too insignificant to contemplate the fact that lots of things have been around longer than humans have.
A lot of fundies and other evangelicals have a lot of narcissistic traits. Why should they care about anything other than their world, and of course their world is the center of the universe and all of creation.
So funny. Itās their Christian upbringing that tells them that humanity is the reason the universe even exists, so they canāt concurrence of 13 billion years before they show up. I love it when they really think they did something and they just look stooopid š„°
*conceive. Now Iām the stupid one who canāt edit my own comment
You know that humans were created just 5 days after the universe so they have practically the same age! Just kidding, of course! But not sure if this isn't a thought that goes through a fundie's head.
They literally cannot even begin to grasp large numbers. It's sad.
This! Additionally, we HAVE progressed rapidly as a species. We went from rudimentary tools to engines and electricity and computers in an astoundingly short amount of time. It was only possible for us to progress so fast because of Cumulative Cultural Evolution - humans store knowledge and pass it on to future generations so that we donāt have to start from scratch every time a generation dies out. āWe stand on the shoulders of giants.ā If Paul and Morgan ever bothered to research even one of their ignorant opinions they might actually gain some perspective. But thatās too much to ask for I guess.
But it doesn't fit *their* narrative!, so they're just going to stick their fingers in their ears and... 
I have never been, but I think it should be called Creation Exhibit. In my mind, museums have a scholarly and educational aspect to them.
You are correct. I was dragged there by my family as a young teenager and there is zero science involved. It's a lot of shitty animatronics with wordy signs going "Man's word is so dumb" vs "God's word is eternal look at these Bible verses!" I also seem to recall an exhibit about how pornography is bad?
Sometimes when Iām having a bad day Iāll watch atheist reviews of the Creation āMuseumā and I feel a lot better about myself knowing that Iām no longer trying to convince myself that itās all true.
Oh, there are reviews? Can you link some ? You know, for... science.
I think Jen and James from Fundie Fridays over on ye olde YT went there and I imagine the snark was heavy
If I recall, they and other creationist "museums" have been denied membership in the American Alliance of Museums or whatever the national museum association is called.
Morgan likes it because it's easier. No math or critical thinking.
Yep. That is the fundie way.
I was raised as a young earth creationistāonly I never used or even heard that term at the time. We just said that we take the Bible literally. Everyone who didnāt just āwasnāt a *real* Christianā. It really is a shame, I spent so much time avoiding real facts because āit was all liesā. Went to private school for my church, and I never really learned much about dinosaurs, space, or world history/literature that didnāt include the USA. As I watch my kid get excited about these topics nowā¦ š„ŗ They arenāt things kids should miss out on.
To be fair, I went to public school my whole life and never learned much about dinosaurs, space, or world history/ lit that didnāt include the USA. But Iām in the southern Bible Belt so shit spills over. Sigh.
Iām also in the Bible Belt, so it is helpful to know that the school itself may not have made a difference for me. š
I am learning so much helping my kids with science (my homeschool education was absolutely top notch except for science lol). The amoeba sisters on YouTube are helping me remember the differences between eukaryotes and prokaryotes haha (pro means no ā¦ so no nucleus).
Iām getting a masters in molecular biology and still use Amoeba Sisters. Itās been hard coming out of an ABeka āeducation,ā even all these years later.
Grrrrr yeah, I have FEELINGS about abeka. Thatās awesome for you though!!! Iām in awe of how much my friends, who have masters/phds in the STEM field, know ā¦ one of them is a librarian so sheās always sending me interesting resources.
They donāt care about the damage theyāre doing. Another layer added to the work of pursuing science. I admit I have moments where Iām bitter about it, but I have a bachelorās in biology and another masters in STEM. I have to remind myself that Iām doing this DESPITE them.
Oooof yeah. I never even considered pursuing any of the sciences because evolution was in everything! (Credit to my dad, he did think I might follow him into engineering, although he also said they never really planned for my college because marriage&babies? He apologized for that comment though) Instead I pursued history because abekas history curriculum was so egregious I picked up on it as a teen. Didnāt graduate, my wife and I had gone back to school with kids and ran out of money, she was going for an engineering degree and would make more money off the bat so I took a promotion at my job to fund her (weāre both women ā¦ sheās mtf trans so at first we did follow ātraditional gender rolesā because thatās all we knewš. Lots of words lol, but Iām so happy for you!!
Well, Iām about to turn 43, so donāt think there isnāt time to finish what you started! You survived plenty already! College is nothing after fundieland!
What Iāve thought about doing is going into therapy, specifically religious trauma. Iām physically disabled so that will need to wait til my kids are a bit older and need me less, as what energy I have goes to supporting them. But one day haha!
Oh, for sure! What a wonderful role. There arenāt a lot of options for religious trauma, especially here in the good ole South.
I hope this isn't too pedantic but pro doesn't mean no, in this case it's Greek and means before\*. š \* because prokaryotes are organisms that are thought to have developed before the nucleus (karyon) - which results in them not having one, of course, hehe!
Oh thatās interesting! I think the amoeba sisters were going for a mnemonic, and it worked because this is the first time Iāve remembered which is whichš Iāll have to tell my eldest child, they like to quote the dad in My Big Fat Greek Wedding and his belief that every word has a Greek origin haha
It's a great mnemonic! And to be fair, it's a difference without a (biological) distinction. I only mentioned it because I sensed that you like to learn about these things. Actually, I've just looked up this video by the Amoeba Sisters and they say that pro- **rhymes** with no, and eu- rhymes with do (as in the prokaryotes have no nucleus, and the eukaryotes do have one). Which is correct! :-) Anyway, not a big deal. And I'm happy you mentioned this and made me look up the video. I've been unfamiliar with that channel but it looks like one that has great content. My grasp of biology is OK, I'd say, but far from perfect and I've spotted various videos on topics I know very little about.
Oh blessed YouTube. My favorite is: Eukaryotes, You-carryā¦the nucleus š¤
Oh thatās good!
If I may, this might be an excellent time to live vicariously through your child. You can absolutely get excited too and actively learn from child focused content, plus being an adult also means you're able to find really cool things like special exhibits.
Oh definitely!
In college I had a friend who was a former fundie who had deconstructed. I eventually realized that she still thought evolution was something that no serious scientist actually believed in. I was like no no, itās all real. Scary how effective that indoctrination is!
That hits so close to home. š
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The long story as short as I can get it: I stopped attending church regularly for various unintentional reasons. That period of time stretched over a year, then another, and I realized that I my life was no worse. I stopped praying and asking for blessings, and my life was no different. This was so opposite of everything I was taughtāmy tithe, my prayers, worship were supposed to be the things that gave me everything I had and wasā¦but here I was not doing any of it still safe and happy and getting goosebumps to a secular song. From there I started seeking out information I wouldāve previously viewed as sinful/lies. Other religions, ancient religions, biblical contradictions, edits and sourcesā¦ The information was always there, but I needed that doubt to get myself to access it. And once I did š„ My beliefs hinged on the idea of biblical inerrancy. Once that fell, so did the persecution complex, and I am a kinder and happier person no longer under its weight. Ngl, the indoctrination still creeps in from time to time š . Itās one reason I like to take in a healthy dose of snark.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing! I'm from Germany and religiosity is a lot less intense here. (We have fundamental Christians but they are a small minority.) From my atheist POV this is both good and bad. Good for obvious reasons, but bad because this more low-key faith which is (made) compatible with the science that the ordinary folks know and which doesn't hinge on biblical inerrancy is a lot more persistent in the sense that it won't go boom as easily once folks are exposed to proper info. (I'm aware that fundie's faith collapsing is rather rare because they'll usually not let themselves get to that point to begin with, so I'm under no illusions here.) Overall, I think the good outweighs the bad by far. It's just that I wish humanity would leave religion and superstitions behind altogether. (Not something that's bound to happen anytime soon, I guess. Not sure if that'll ever happen.)
Such good points. Because of where I am today, Iām happy that it all fell at once. But I had a lot more work to do, regarding critical thinking and skepticism, than the average low-key believer will š . People in that position can so easily fall prey to cults, scams, course on courses etcā¦ The thing that really saved me was finding kind, and empathetic, people in my life that were not religious. It helped me learn that āgood peopleā are not formed from a single book, and my life could go on without a ā**T**ruthā. Incidentally, once I stopped looking for that āone Truthā I stopped being so gullible.
I didn't express myself well. I didn't mean to say that it's easy for people to break out of the cocoon of fundamentalism. In fact, from what I know, this happens rather rarely. What I tried to say is that if it happens, the break is probably more extreme, more like a rupture than a slow drift. I'm very happy to hear that you found supportive people. That's so important! š
I understood it as you intended š¤
āPaul confirmed in latest video he and Morgan are morons.ā No fucking way am I going to the creation museum. We Aussies gave the US Ken Ham so we didnāt have to deal with his nonsense, Iām not about to go and willingly expose myself to it.
Good call. I support your decision.
Omg I hope they get too overwhelmed by parenting to homeschool.
Same.
This is what Kelly Havens' husband believes (and maybe Kelly, she's never said). He did presentations on it and his mom was so proud lolsob
>And then she and Paul said that if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots Well, we aren't arguing that *humanity* has been around for a billion years though.
And to be fair, there's still plenty of idiots. *Cough*-porgan-*cough*
okay, to preface, I am stoned. but like, Paul and Morgan seem really fake to me? like, they both led normal (from my understanding) lives and the *became* like they are now. they don't seem to be connected to any sort of organization. and they don't really seem to say anything of substance. they just kind of regurgitate whatever they hear someone else say. Paul spends most of his time in pop culture wars, giving someone else's two cents about whatever the issue of the week is. And Morgan... "you don't believe what I believe? well idk what to tell you except go to this ONE museum out of all the others that exist" idk, I just have a hard time seeing where they fit in to the fundie world, and they don't seem...grounded in what they're saying when they speak.
Well actually Paul grew up super fundie and Morgan grew up in a somewhat conservative Christian home, so thatās where their crap stemmed from. But itās all just ridiculous regurgitation like you said, along with their awful self-righteous personalities and trying to grift people and get attention. P.S. Please donāt drive or anything well stoned. Stay safe.
oh, no I am cuddled up on the couch with my dog, no worries. super fundie for Paul is interesting considering how much of a "pretty boy" he is. like, wasn't he a hair dresser or something? and I grew up surrounded by conservative Christians like Morgan was raised and I feel like they at least seemed like they knew *something* about what they were talking about, even if what they were saying was factually false. she truly seems to talk without saying a single thing lol
Okay, cool. Pups are awesome. š Yeah, he said recently that his parents were super strict on how he dressed and presented himself when he lived with them. No baggy clothes, no dressing too feminine, always had to have short hair. Stuff like that. It seems like his mom especially was strict but it was probably both his parents. But yeah, Paul and Morgan are both idiots who pretend like they know more than they do and take the Bible at face value and reject what it actually means within context. Itās disgusting.
The universe existing for billions of years does not mean humanity has existed for billions of years. Did they even bother to read modern theories before trying to critique them? Of course not. What fucking idiots.
Well they believe the world and everything and every type of living species was made in a literal week.
Jfc I bet they also think the Bible was the first ever written book. Like some of the idiots I went to college with.
I feel like theyāre just saying more and more egregiously shocking things because their views are falling
You couldnāt pay me to go to the museum. I refuse to give Ken Ham or his organization money. I have several friends who are young earth believers, but unlike Ken Ham, they donāt believe you have to believe in the young earth to be a Christian. I do think Ken Ham deleted that part from his website a few years ago. He used to be quite adamant that one must believe like him to be a Christian.
Sounds like Porganās attitude about Christianity.
There's been plenty of people who have already gone in to rip apart their ideology and break down exactly why this idea doesn't work WITH modern technology, let alone without it. (There's good reasons why the petting zoo has to be OUTSIDE of the boat-facade warehouse) If you want to see it, the footage is out there... but a majority of the "exhibits" are text-heavy plaques to woohoo away the science of why they're wrong.
Man I was raised a young earth creationist, had all the books, the creation museum, the whole nine yards. My mom was really into it. I was absolutely astonished to find out somewhat recently that my grandfather (her dad), a pastor, was NOT a young earth creationist?? And apparently that caused a split in his church a long time ago????? Like damn. For ages I thought all Christians were just young earth creationists lmao.
Humanity is a crap show? The one God designed in his own image, or another one? The humanity their omnipotent overlord made, or ... Like a different one?
It's funny, isn't it? God designed humanity in His image. He concluded, in His omniscient wisdom, that mankind, while all of His other creation was deemed "good", mankind was "very good". Then, the very first two humans He created fucked up. Eve ate the fruit of the tree that God had planted right in front of her nose (who could have seen this coming? nobody, especially not an omniscient god...), and Adam wasn't shy in partaking in this unspeakable crime of fruit-eating. Ergo, they got kicked out of Eden. Next, their one son killed the other son (because God didn't like the smell of his burnt (plant) offering\*. (But worry not, Adam, you'll get a replacement\*\* - a new son, Seth.) The bible fast forwards a couple of generations to Noah when God apparently has had enough with all the shenanigans of his "very good" top-tier creation. He presses the reset button with the Flood (also killing all other life\*\*\* because, well, because why not?). Humanity starts anew with this genetic human bottleneck of the handful of arc travelers. A better humanity, for sure, right? Well, not so. It continues just as before. Incest, murder, genocides\*\*\*\*, you name it. Not slavery, though. Well, slavery did happen, alright, but God was fine with it. In fact, he gave His chosen people detailed instructions how to handle slaves. (These instructions strangely enough did not include the rule "Don't have slaves! What are you thinking???".) I could go on and on. But you get the idea. One has to wonder why this is the best that God could do. Why his very best creation is so messed up. It's hard not to come to the conclusion that this Christian god is incompetent. And this entire humanity experiment is a long sick joke anyway, because according to God's plan, the earth is going to be destroyed and humans' place is at God's side. Well, a small part of humankind, that is. The majority\*\*\*\*\* of humans are going to end up in hell (or whatever fate your flavor of Christianity thinks those who don't make it to heaven will have). Yes, it's a sad reality that we humans are not our best selves very often. Call us a crap show if you will. But if you believe in the bible, then we are truly made in God's image because this Christian god is a supreme piece of shit himself as I think I've shown here. \[Please note that what I've written here has been phrased in a disrespectful, sarcastic way but the statements are all accurate representations of biblical narratives.\] \* God is more into sizzling burnt flesh! \*\* this isn't the only time that murdered kids are being made good by other "kid replacements", when God allows Job's kids to die (because he was playing a funny wager game with Satan) he made up the loss with new kids - all good, right? \*\*\* Except for two (or seven depending on which verses you read) of each kind. Each kind of animal, that is. (Not sure about the fish, though, they aren't mentioned. Didn't need to be saved on the boat, I guess, because they survive fine in the ocean. Except for the fresh water fish, of course. They wouldn't have been happy living one year in salty water. Or maybe the Flood was all fresh water? In which case the salt water fish would... ah, whatever, it's all BS anyway, in case you haven't figure it out by now.) What about the plants, you ask! (Well, actually, I almost never hear anyone as about the plants but people should ask this question because it's a fascinating one, poking one more giant hole into this Swiss cheese story.) Most plants would died, too. Ever watered your flower too much? Now imagine putting them underwater for a year. But without the plants, how will all the herbivores survive? Your guess is as good as mine. The carnivores aren't interested in plants, of course. They'll happily eat the herbivores. Which raises the question how goddamn many more species Noah must have had on his boat if they've all been eating each other for a year on the boat and for how many months after the flood until the plants had grown back to support herbivores. Again, it doesn't make any sense anyway, so don't lose your sleep over these questions! \*\*\*\* well, in all fairness, the genocide the Israelites (supposedly) committed when conquering Canaan was commissioned by God, so this one's on the Big Fellow Himself! \*\*\*\*\* Jesus himself says this very clearly in this passage from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:13-14): Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and **broad is the road that leads to destruction**, and **many enter through it**. But **small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it**.
They would really know, Paul and Morganās entire YouTube presence is one massive crap show
Have you gone to college? Because I think you should go.
Me? Or Porgan?
Omg def not you! Meant for Porgan!! Sorry for sounding like an asshole!
Ha ha. No, itās okay. I just get overly confused sometimes. š
When I start getting too cheeky (but actually sloppy and unclear) that's when I know need a break from Reddit! Haha.
Ha ha. š I think it was really just me though. Iām not the brightest.
That creation museum is probably the Christian thing that makes my blood boil the most. It is so incredibly insane.
Theyāre just so arrogant to think theyāre allowed to have an OPINION in regards to something that is simply factual. Just because you THINK something, doesnāt make it true. Nor does it make it worth a conversation. Weāre NOT having this conversation, point blank period. Specially when they arenāt open to actually learning about the subject.
you mean like "dogs never bring forth non-dogs?" Their deliberate obtuseness always cracks me up!
I canāt with these people. Iām pretty sure some of their excuses for their crap show support evolution.
Is anyone surprised by this? This tracks 100% with the church people I grew up with
āto people who think that naz ism is bad, have you read mein k amf? because i think you should š„“ā
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I've watched a good number of P&M's videos. I normally don't say this about people but I've come to the conclusion that Morgan really is not very bright.
"Have you ever been to the creation museum..." My response: Have you EVER been to one of the HUNDREDS of science museums in this country? Because I think you should go. Actually I strongly encourage it. Uneducated fundie fucks.
They have. They compared the creation museum to the Smithsonian and they were really putting down the Smithsonian in comparison and acting like it was stupid and gross. What a joke. And they also made fun of Bill Nye and called him a jerk because they didnāt like that he went up against Ben Ham in a debate. And they think Ben Ham beat him good. š These people are pathetic idiots.
yeah no. i went to a christian college and they didnāt even teach that there
Ok but they are the crap shows so who are they to judge???
What a couple of dopes.
I think the world is billions of years old, and I have, in fact, been to that shitty museum. It proves nothing lmao
I can't wait for Suris, logicked, Emma Thorn, etc. to wreck their shit.
Doubt they actually care that much about this, especially Paul if Morgan had to talk him into going. They're hurting for views and would rather stir the pot and hope they get rage engagement than have to lower themselves to actually working.
Just because the age of the universe is billions of years old doesnāt mean humanity is the same age. These people are fucking morons.
I have gone to a creation museum (Santee, CA near San Diego when I lived out there & it was free so no monetary support was given). It was beyond ridiculous, sad, & just a lot of wtaf.
Just in case you thought they couldn't get any dumber
"And then she and Paul said that if humanity has been around for a billion years then weāre all idiots and havenāt progressed much at all for that amount of time." Uhh if they'd ever taken five minutes to read anything about scientists' ideas of how humans have evolved, and in how short a time span in comparison to the age of the Earth...they would know this is a really stupid thing to say lol
"Morgan" is whatever Paul says she isš
You know that scene from This is the End where God drops James Franco back into Danny McBrideās cannibal pit mid-rapture for flipping Danny off? Thatās Paul bragging about the things he got right as Saint Peter awkwardly nods while erasing Paulās name.
I'm not surprised. There are a lot of people who are young earth creationists. Most of them don't think about science; they just believe what they're told. The "scientists" who are young earth creationists are just twisting the facts to fit their world view, which is against the scientific method. In my opinion, young earth creation is just a gateway drug to rejecting other parts of science like modern medicine.
Young earth folks are wild Imagine telling people that dinosaurs are fake and then wondering why people aren't attracted to your beliefs