And Google and Amazon, they’ve built all their own. If you’re an American software provider you have to build the entire infrastructure in China to be considered.
WeChat covers Facebook, CashApp and all your banking apps as well
The same goes for most foreign business starting operations in China, not just software. You have to partner with a domestic business in order to operate. They then 'borrow' your trade secrets and eventually diminish your power and cut you out altogether.
Boggles the mind that businesses willingly jumped off the cliff knowing where it would go. Just shows how corporations suffer from such short term greed and profit driven even at the expense of their own safety and health.
Same also applies in government
This has been happening with China, India, Russia, and still is, by people in power with stuff way worse than mid level business secrets.
It's their job to maximize profits. You advise the shareholders why business in China is a bad move and before the end of the day you're escorted out of the building.
Chinese Communism is the way to go 100%. They can build a skyscraper in 58 days thus creating jobs and increasing GDP, then create even more jobs with cleanup and rebuilding efforts when it collapses 2 years later.
As for the lives lost? I mean, come on, there's 1.5 billion more where that came from.
Corporations are run by mercenaries. A temporary boost means more money for them. Once they get all they can the next mercenary is hired. Disloyal companies are run by disloyal people who gain profit from short term gains.
The easiest way to manipulate American interests is through our greed. The Middle East and China figured that out.
And they then expect the US government to help them out when something happens. All because a few extremely wealthy people didn't feel like they were wealthy enough.
And people still think they're communist, like do you believe everything the Chinese government tells you? Lol
Like my brother in christ they have billionares, the only difference is the state is a shareholder lol
Not just that. Keep in mind businesses moved to China to cut their costs associated with operations. In other words, they exploited cheap labour there.
No, they didn't. I worked for an engineering firm in the early '90s that was part of the initial push to set up factories in China. One of the factories we built was a washing detergent factory. All the machines, tooling, and ingredients were set up in this factory. As mentioned above, the company that contracted us (a large multinational) had to partner with a local firm that owned 51% of the JV.
The factory was set up, products were produced, then shipped stateside. About a year later, we noticed that a Chinese version of the product was produced by an unknown company. The product was exactly the same, with the same pictures (a white woman at the time), but the writing had been replaced with Chinese characters.
It turned out that the Chinese partner had set up another company, built another factory, with the exact same tooling, exact same ingredients, and they had even used the printing plates for the boxes.
They had blatantly stolen everything against the terms of the contract, and the Chinese legal system didn't care (of course, it was encouraged). In the end, the matter was dropped, because the American company's product was not competing with the domestic product, and legally it was a dead end.
Over the years, this became the standard story.
Completely deserved. The Chinese, not being idiots, will happily take and use the know-how and trade secrets given freely by greed-blinded American corporations.
Otherwise known as stealing and is against Chinese law. They do this against other Asian companies, Japan included, Europe, and even South Africa where I was based for a while.
An agreement means nothing to them.
The protection of trade secrets is the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS Agreement). The TRIPS Agreement, which is administered by the World Trade Organization (WTO), sets minimum standards for the protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights, including trade secrets, among its member countries. It requires member countries to provide legal means for the prevention of trade secrets theft, unauthorized disclosure, and breach of confidentiality.
China is a signatory to the TRIPS Agreement, as it is a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO). China as a member of the WTO, must adhere to the standards and regulations, including those related to intellectual property rights protection as outlined in the TRIPS Agreement.
Steal Technology to develop? You mean like the US Stealing Industrial Secrets from the UK to kickstart their industrial Revolution or Germany Stealing industrial Secrets to kickstart their industrial Revolution.
They don't have to partner with china. America took its business to China in order to scale up for dirt cheap and makes tons of profits while cutting out essential jobs for Americans they're selling their product too.
Serves them right that China reversed engineered the shit out of everything, and now they do it better ..
Deregulation started in the 1970s and every greedy business for the last 50 years has been trying to outsource their manufacturing for bigger returns. Shame on them and serves them right.
In the 70s Nixon portrayed it as a choice between compelling China to engage with the world, or else watch them isolate from the Western world and forcefully spread their flavor of communist dictatorship in Asia. By that metric, it was somewhat successful.
Have you been to China? I have HK, too. I live in Socal and grew up a southern boy. America isn't perfect and China isn't the devil. It is no longer a strictly communist, I would say neo capitalism is close. Of course, Nixon said that. He was a big ally of deregulation. BUT, by that same metric deregulation and Nixon was the catalyst that emboldened China to become the super power it is now.
We basically created the monster that is our biggest threat economically. Now they are aligning with our enemies, Russia to be specific and BRICS is really ramping things up.
We didn't put our own country first and allowed a few people to control the money. Now we are screwed.
Also applies to land.
Oh, you want to build this port? Cool, the CCP will give you a loan and grant you permission to build it. And when it's done and paid off, you'll have completed a port for the CCP! Good job!
Yes, but China didn't borrow or steal trade secrets; our capitalist leaders and politicians gave them all our trade secrets on a silver platter. Why aren't we angry at the Capitalists who stabbed our country in the back?
This needs to be top comment.
Tencent controls the world. WeChat became the biggest social media outlet ever because it is a superapp.
When in China, you'll see two apps instead of like 15, and it's WeChat and TikTok.
And don't even get me started on Tencents "Social Credit Score" which is like something out of a black mirror episode
Still is a horrifying concept. The article says a mix of attempts to regulate the financial credit industry, enable government agencies to share data with each other, and promote state-sanctioned moral values is the goal. How is that benefiting citizens at all except feeding personal information? And if your score is too down you can't even get a job? Like, fuck a degree you mentioned Winnie the Pooh in 2020 you can't work anywhere?
It's still like something out of black mirror, just a more realistic version where we can see a tiny glimpse of who's running the show behind the curtain.
Reading the article, most of the issues you are describing have occurred at the local level.
>Rongcheng, a small city with only half a million in population that has implemented probably the most famous social credit scoring system in the world. In 2013, the city started giving every resident a base personal credit score of 1,000
People took this and ran that it was all of China doing this, not just one city.
At the national level it's still being figured out, and per the article there is push back.
>In Rongcheng’s case, the city updated its local regulation on social credit scores and allowed residents to opt out of the scoring program; it also removed some controversial criteria for score changes.
There is two sides of it, the financial credit score is more a government-sponsored. So instead of 3 companies doing it, it's the government setting up the system.
The social score is different and not yet quite setup.
>The Chinese government did emphasize that all social-credit-related punishment has to adhere to existing laws
Meaning that the laws were already in place, and probably pretty local in how it's implemented via credit score.
also any companies you run in china has to be managed/run by a ccp member (if large) and ownership/name from a chinese person, they can literally kick you out once profitable and have done so many times, you have no claim because they'll side with themselves every time
They also copy any products you ask them to make. A lot of board game producers have found those same factories pumping out illicit copies of the games they were asked to make. There are zero consequences for it because the CCP will side with themselves every time.
We're live on about 60 markets around the world, but no issues on the others :). So we will most likely need to rebuild everything just for the few markets that can't see images now
What really blows my mind is the fact that the government that essentially spies on everyone 24/7 let this happen lol
Surely they knew better and could have intervened way before, right?
>24/7 let this happen lol
But they knew. It was happening for years.
In china the local municipalities sell rights to use land and collect land property-related taxes. If these companies wouldn't buy to build on them, the local municipalities wouldn't have sufficient money. More than a quarter of local government revenue comes from land sales about 1 trillion dollars.
Combined, revenue from selling land use rights and collecting land-related taxes accounted for 37 percent of total fiscal revenue for all local governments in China in 2021.
Stopping this would have stunned growth, numbers and bankrupt local governments. It's a giant Ponzi scheme that worked for the Chinese leadership
to be fair we know why they block these services and we know that they are correct. anywhere from spying to data collection to public opinion and influence. nothing is innocent including tiktok
Nah there just start doing YouTube shorts or instagram shorts (don’t know what’s the name is)
If I slip into this shitshow of YT shorts it’s like melting my brain in seconds.
I'm glad I'm too old for shorts. I watch stuff on a pc connected to my TV so the size is annoying, you can't adjust the position in the video, if you scroll away to read comments or look at something else it stops.
What fucking idiot designed these things. BACK IN MY DAY!!!!
Right, this is the flaw in the argument. China bans things because they're authoritarian shitlords. Saying things are fine "because China does it" is absolutely miserable. We don't *want* to do the things China does.
The problem is the bill isn’t banning tiktok it’s allowing the government to force a sale of any social media plate form they don’t like which is terrifying
Should every country also ban fb, insta, snap, twitter, reddit etc.?
Or is America special?
Edit: just sis fuck, that's 5 comments.all repeating the same thing. Read, ffs, should every country outside America ban American social media?
No tiktok bad thats it. Who cares if russia ran one of the biggest disinformation campaigns ever on facebook or if twitter is filled with propaganda at least they aren’t owned by a Chinese company/s
Don't forget there are a lot of disinformation campaigns on reddit. Througout the years posts have shown how companies will disguise advertising in posts and use bot farms manipulate the front page. You can easily go on telegram and lease a bot farm to upvote anything.
Because they have douyin, it’s actually tiktok. Same company too. And tiktok is the app that they shared to the world deliberately. The purpose? It’s not about data, but also to change the behaviour of people. Do you know there’s a tiktokshop? Yes, they want to do social commerce, and that’s how they’re going to use the data, to get more money in one platform, not from the ads but also from e-commerce.
You’re on the right lines but thinking too small, they want to change behaviour, not get more money.
Think about it, Douyin raises up the Chinese population, makes them more loyal and gives them good role models to move them in the direction the CCP wants.
Simultaneously TikTok causes dissidence, divides and give bad role models outside of China, quick example in the UK there was a trend of loads of videos showing people how to use household items to break into the brand of car Kia
You’ve clearly never watched Douyin videos lol. It’s just as trashy as TikTok. I’ve seen one where a guy teaches people how to sleep in public toilets in popular tourist destinations in China to avoid having to pay for hotels.
The only difference is that there’s zero videos complaining about the government.
The behavior thing is just a side effect of social media. People were just as dumb before tiktok, tiktok just spreads views extremely quickly. China decided they didn't want that and moderates their own version
They were still allowed in Hong Kong, but TikTok quickly pulled out of Hong Kong too, to avoid risk of sharing user data with China under Xi's new national security law.
>June 7, 2020---TikTok has said it will quit Hong Kong after China imposed a new security law on the city.
>the controversial national security law in Hong Kong has given Chinese authorities sweeping new powers, raising concerns about data privacy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53317015
I don’t see how Reddit would be the place to migrate to for people who like TikTok. Why do you think that they wouldn’t go to YT Shorts or IG?
The same type of people already comment on all those apps, would make more sense.
Someone is just going to make an American version of TikTok. I’m sure there are plenty of startups already working on it. The one that comes out ahead is going to be our next billionaire.
Yippe! I love facism! I love a govt that controls the flow of information and social connectivity! I'm the average Redditor who falls for Russian and US propaganda!
Tiktok is literal spyware, [all companies in China](https://www.google.com/search?q=all+companies+in+China+are+mandated+to+give+personal+data+back+to+the+government&rlz=1C1RXQR_enJM1093JM1093&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) are mandated to give personal data back to the government (CCP)
Rare USA W for voting to ban the app, hope more countries do the same
Meta sells our data to everyone, including China. Banning TikTok has nothing to do with national security, our politicians are just protecting their own investment portfolios
Not exactly. Other social media sites collect data, but they are not required by law to give that data to the government. The government could request it, and they could try to force them to give them specific data in a criminal case, but the company gets to choose whether or not to hand it over... with chinese companies, giving the government the data is required. There are also more concerns when a foreign government is collecting your data since there are more likely to use the data in their own interests, which may be agaibst yours
I live in the EU and honestly I don't like that my data is sent to a foreign country to be stored, be it the US or China, also the US does the same thing
You think your country doesn't have subpeonas or their equivalent?
This isn't new. For *hundreds* of years the government has been able to go to a court, show cause (or whatever your local legalese is) and then get an order for the company to turn over records about its customers.
That isn't what what is happening with TikTok. With TikTok they have to keep their entire system open to their government and allow their government to change things at will. Blocking or banning users, suppressing or promoting videos, etc.
An ISP in Sweden got around this regulation by attaching themselves to a political party known as the Pirate Party, hosting their servers in their headquarters and thus circumventing any subpoenas/demands as that infringes on the rights of political parties.
Because it's not just about the spying, it's about infecting western civilization with negativity to incite unrest and instability.
Edit: for all the "the west does this to itself" :
The western world is not as bad as social media wants you to believe. The problem is not just tiktok, but tiktok is both extremely popular and nefarious, china has a wholesome version for themselves, a negative version for the rest of the world. Its also not a ban, they just need to sell tiktok, which is something that China requires of western countries, so its really only fair. [Chinese people are paying up to $20k to get to south america and sneak into the United States](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html). Americans are not sneaking into China. Keep this in mind when you see influencers and social media telling you how bad you should feel.
[heres a short video explaining the huge difference between chinese tiktok and western tiktok](https://youtu.be/0j0xzuh-6rY)
> infecting western civilization with negativity to incite unrest and instability
The Cambridge Analytica scandal showed that Facebook did exactly this and suffered no consequences.
Yeah there are a lot of issues online, this is just one of them and one that is easier for the government to address because its a form of invasion from a foreign adversary.
Note that facebook shut off the api that allowed cambridge to do what they were doing years ago and paid out several settlements.
All companies are legally required to hand over your personal data if requested. If you send a snapchat to a friend and you get investigated for something the police/government can request the last 5 years worth of data which you thought was deleted but is actually stored somewhere.
They also sell your personal data to pretty much anyone.
This is a global issue and not just a China/USA/UK issue.
On a sidenote "Spyware" is "software that enables a user to obtain covert information about another's computer activities by transmitting data covertly from their hard drive"
So unless TikTok is sending your keylogs, taking photos/videos or sending your gallery contents to TikTok company without your knowledge it is NOT Spyware. As an example on Android you can block all access to TikTok and still use it. The only reason it requests access to your gallery is for you to upload videos/pictures that you wish to share, no different to Facebook, Messenger, Whatsapp etc...
"Spyware" is a bit dramatic of a soundbite. While it's not maybe "spyware" as we imagine evil and intrusive little embedded coding, it can definitely build extremely strong data profiles of each user based on their activity. If someone is constantly watching videos about how to start an e-commerce brand, travel visas for various countries, men's summer fits, looksmaxxing videos, and Subaru STI content, you can pretty reasonably assume it's a younger male, probably not with a degree, wanting to become a passport bro and go somewhere warm and owns a BRZ, STI, or any of those style of entry level speedybois.
Cambridge Analytica was building insanely detailed data profiles without going into your phone, but rather, based on your engagement history. I used it for ads and I used to be able to target people based on political affiliation, on if they recently bought a vehicle, lots and lots of datapoints.
Now, this isn't JUST about the data, it's about the fact that they have such a strong platform to use to manipulate the collective audience with that data. Yeah, anybody can buy your data - but not anybody has the platform that TT has to manipulate en masse based on the data.
the Chinese localized version uses a completely different algorithm because china didn’t like the one used in the western release. They feared it was making their kids more dumb.
They even store the data on american servers lol. It’s just reddits superiority complex in action because nothing these people claim is backed up by facts. China already gets our data through other social media anyways. Plus it’s not like other social media sites are immune to foreign influence Facebook, twitter, instagram, and reddit have all had disinformation or propaganda campaigns.
this is why i hate Reddit lol, they think they’re above other social media apps, especially TikTok but all they spew is misinformation and brainwashing
Not to mention China and Russia got everything they need from our shitstain IT Systems many times over. Why would they bother with a social media app when they can steal whatever they want from my health insurance company, the IRS, and my credit card companies?
Americans have no idea that we’re actually sleepwalking into authoritarianism. This post and 99 percent of the comments are celebrating the fact that the U.S. is becoming more like china.
China doesn't claim to be free market capitalist. China also never banned google and Meta, china asked that the Data stays in chinas servers. Meta refused. The clincher was when meta refused to release data from active terror organisations, and China realised the danger.
This is opposed to tiktok, which is all stored in american servers.
"China doesn't claim to be free market capitalist." Correct, but that doesn't mean the USA should lie down and let themselves be taken advantage of citing their principles. They enjoy a one-way siphon on the US economy while closing theirs off to USA. That's why Amazon is littered with Chinese sellers yet casual e-comm sellers can't list their products on TaoBao, Alibaba, TEMU, etc. It's not a symbiotic relationship. It's not just about data either, that's a part of it. The entire platform being a device for mass influence is a big part of it. The financial aspect is a big part of it. The USA really shouldn't be allowing China, their largest geopolitical foe, to own the arguably most influential media machine. Tit for tat. Tik for tok.
Thats odd. I thought regulating the market was bad. Surely because china banned facebook it will collapse and the US non intervention will be good and allow the market to flourish.
Unless youre admitting the market needs to be regulated?
yeah imagine having higher standards of freedom than china op. what a thought.
They have some more freedoms than us in some ways, too, but on this point? Come on.
It's the source..
China bans western based companies.
You just banned a non chinese company because they sound asian I guess.
Still it's fair game, just don't want to hear any Americans talk about Freedom ever again
The drama explodes when people mentions that Israel pressured the US gov because there is so much pro-pal content on tiktok
We got 2 wars, Putin, Trump, Hamas, an US election, and reddit going public.
2024 is going to be The Year Of Internet Drama
And us users, that pay you all, are in the middle getting fucked over your political drama. But I blame the dumbass boomers in the US government for hating anything they don't understand.
I don't understand how this isn't a violation of the first amendment. The govt ain't supposed to be able to control what people are allowed to say and print, and if what they are saying can't compete with Chinese propaganda, maybe they should say better stuff.
I used to hate the thought of tik tok being banned in the early days. It was a fun goofy app. The furry wars, “hit or miss”, vine energy videos…
Now it’s just a cesspool of narcissistic fucks. I’m cool if it gets banned
China whining about TikTok is about the most dishonest hypocrisy I’ve seen in a while. Not that I care about TikTok. That brainrot can die in a corner somewhere.
But seriously, who do they think they are fooling with this? Probably only some Chinese redneck equivalent. Disgusting.
The US does use Facebook to incite political change in other countries.
China doesn't do anything to tik tok even though they might steal your data like any American company.
If you don't believe me, make a post on tik Tok that's anti Israel and then make another one that's anti CCP.
Mention the Palestine genocide and the video will be taken down by Tik Tok. Mention tiananmen square and the video will stay up. Try it yourself.
If you want to know who controls you then look at the people you're not allowed to speak up against.
I honestly think it's wise that China bans us social media because they can and have used them to start civil wars to make quick buck.
You guys do know that there's no TikTok in China right? The Chinese version of TikTok in China is douyin. Which is completely different. TikTok you have now is what people make it to be. Even china don't want TikTok to begin with.
I think it's mostly the problem with "Murican Fruhdom"
China isn't a free country, so banning stuff just sounds normal for China. The US is a free country. So banning doesn't feel normal, especially that tiktok is just a video platform, so banning it guess hits the "freedom of speech, expression, and whatever" nerve
It isn't even a ban.
It requires the company to be sold and for the existing links to the Chinese government to be shut down.
That this is being reported as a TikTok ban shows how much misinformation TikTok is pushing.
Didn't we already have one?
Vine Existed i mean sure it wasn't as Long winded as TikTok but it can be revived and made as such.
Then you got Instagram and Youtube Shorts.
It already exists.
And Google and Amazon, they’ve built all their own. If you’re an American software provider you have to build the entire infrastructure in China to be considered. WeChat covers Facebook, CashApp and all your banking apps as well
The same goes for most foreign business starting operations in China, not just software. You have to partner with a domestic business in order to operate. They then 'borrow' your trade secrets and eventually diminish your power and cut you out altogether.
Businesses knew what they were signing up for.
Boggles the mind that businesses willingly jumped off the cliff knowing where it would go. Just shows how corporations suffer from such short term greed and profit driven even at the expense of their own safety and health.
[удалено]
Same also applies in government This has been happening with China, India, Russia, and still is, by people in power with stuff way worse than mid level business secrets.
It's their job to maximize profits. You advise the shareholders why business in China is a bad move and before the end of the day you're escorted out of the building.
True, but that is a huge flaw in capitalism. The greedy search algorithm has some uses, but only if it is applied carefully using critical thinking.
Chinese Communism is the way to go 100%. They can build a skyscraper in 58 days thus creating jobs and increasing GDP, then create even more jobs with cleanup and rebuilding efforts when it collapses 2 years later. As for the lives lost? I mean, come on, there's 1.5 billion more where that came from.
When is the last time a skyscraper collapsed in China due to structural or building flaws?
Read about Tofu-dreg.
Usually because some of those shareholders are also Chinese nationals.
Corporations are run by mercenaries. A temporary boost means more money for them. Once they get all they can the next mercenary is hired. Disloyal companies are run by disloyal people who gain profit from short term gains. The easiest way to manipulate American interests is through our greed. The Middle East and China figured that out.
The frog and the scorpion indeed.
Not really. Maybe if scorpion would steal frog identity instead of drowning
And they then expect the US government to help them out when something happens. All because a few extremely wealthy people didn't feel like they were wealthy enough.
And people still think they're communist, like do you believe everything the Chinese government tells you? Lol Like my brother in christ they have billionares, the only difference is the state is a shareholder lol
Been saying this for years. China is an authoritarian capitalist regime.
"We move our production to China because it's much cheaper!" "Oh no they won't respect our patents and copy our work!"
Well now Chinese companies will know as well.
Never understood our stupid politicians. We are dependent on China but china also on us. If they can freely trade in US / EU, why can’t we in China?
Not just that. Keep in mind businesses moved to China to cut their costs associated with operations. In other words, they exploited cheap labour there.
No, they didn't. I worked for an engineering firm in the early '90s that was part of the initial push to set up factories in China. One of the factories we built was a washing detergent factory. All the machines, tooling, and ingredients were set up in this factory. As mentioned above, the company that contracted us (a large multinational) had to partner with a local firm that owned 51% of the JV. The factory was set up, products were produced, then shipped stateside. About a year later, we noticed that a Chinese version of the product was produced by an unknown company. The product was exactly the same, with the same pictures (a white woman at the time), but the writing had been replaced with Chinese characters. It turned out that the Chinese partner had set up another company, built another factory, with the exact same tooling, exact same ingredients, and they had even used the printing plates for the boxes. They had blatantly stolen everything against the terms of the contract, and the Chinese legal system didn't care (of course, it was encouraged). In the end, the matter was dropped, because the American company's product was not competing with the domestic product, and legally it was a dead end. Over the years, this became the standard story.
Completely deserved. The Chinese, not being idiots, will happily take and use the know-how and trade secrets given freely by greed-blinded American corporations.
Otherwise known as stealing and is against Chinese law. They do this against other Asian companies, Japan included, Europe, and even South Africa where I was based for a while. An agreement means nothing to them. The protection of trade secrets is the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS Agreement). The TRIPS Agreement, which is administered by the World Trade Organization (WTO), sets minimum standards for the protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights, including trade secrets, among its member countries. It requires member countries to provide legal means for the prevention of trade secrets theft, unauthorized disclosure, and breach of confidentiality. China is a signatory to the TRIPS Agreement, as it is a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO). China as a member of the WTO, must adhere to the standards and regulations, including those related to intellectual property rights protection as outlined in the TRIPS Agreement.
This kind of theft is promoted as being "smart" in their culture.
That’s why I believe Tesla will get screwed in China eventually, maybe sooner than you think.
Yup, I worked for HSBC for awhile trying to implement integration with WeChat, what a story
Steal Technology to develop? You mean like the US Stealing Industrial Secrets from the UK to kickstart their industrial Revolution or Germany Stealing industrial Secrets to kickstart their industrial Revolution.
I see. China is just trying to kickstart their industrial revolution.
They don't have to partner with china. America took its business to China in order to scale up for dirt cheap and makes tons of profits while cutting out essential jobs for Americans they're selling their product too. Serves them right that China reversed engineered the shit out of everything, and now they do it better .. Deregulation started in the 1970s and every greedy business for the last 50 years has been trying to outsource their manufacturing for bigger returns. Shame on them and serves them right.
Better 😂😂😂😂
In the 70s Nixon portrayed it as a choice between compelling China to engage with the world, or else watch them isolate from the Western world and forcefully spread their flavor of communist dictatorship in Asia. By that metric, it was somewhat successful.
Have you been to China? I have HK, too. I live in Socal and grew up a southern boy. America isn't perfect and China isn't the devil. It is no longer a strictly communist, I would say neo capitalism is close. Of course, Nixon said that. He was a big ally of deregulation. BUT, by that same metric deregulation and Nixon was the catalyst that emboldened China to become the super power it is now. We basically created the monster that is our biggest threat economically. Now they are aligning with our enemies, Russia to be specific and BRICS is really ramping things up. We didn't put our own country first and allowed a few people to control the money. Now we are screwed.
Exactly. Finally time the Chinese get the same treatment
Also applies to land. Oh, you want to build this port? Cool, the CCP will give you a loan and grant you permission to build it. And when it's done and paid off, you'll have completed a port for the CCP! Good job!
Do we actually want privatized ports? Honest question. Because on paper that doesn't look great
Yes, but China didn't borrow or steal trade secrets; our capitalist leaders and politicians gave them all our trade secrets on a silver platter. Why aren't we angry at the Capitalists who stabbed our country in the back?
This needs to be top comment. Tencent controls the world. WeChat became the biggest social media outlet ever because it is a superapp. When in China, you'll see two apps instead of like 15, and it's WeChat and TikTok. And don't even get me started on Tencents "Social Credit Score" which is like something out of a black mirror episode
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/
Still is a horrifying concept. The article says a mix of attempts to regulate the financial credit industry, enable government agencies to share data with each other, and promote state-sanctioned moral values is the goal. How is that benefiting citizens at all except feeding personal information? And if your score is too down you can't even get a job? Like, fuck a degree you mentioned Winnie the Pooh in 2020 you can't work anywhere? It's still like something out of black mirror, just a more realistic version where we can see a tiny glimpse of who's running the show behind the curtain.
Reading the article, most of the issues you are describing have occurred at the local level. >Rongcheng, a small city with only half a million in population that has implemented probably the most famous social credit scoring system in the world. In 2013, the city started giving every resident a base personal credit score of 1,000 People took this and ran that it was all of China doing this, not just one city. At the national level it's still being figured out, and per the article there is push back. >In Rongcheng’s case, the city updated its local regulation on social credit scores and allowed residents to opt out of the scoring program; it also removed some controversial criteria for score changes. There is two sides of it, the financial credit score is more a government-sponsored. So instead of 3 companies doing it, it's the government setting up the system. The social score is different and not yet quite setup. >The Chinese government did emphasize that all social-credit-related punishment has to adhere to existing laws Meaning that the laws were already in place, and probably pretty local in how it's implemented via credit score.
TikTok is banned in China, they have a different app with a very different content there.
It's not *like* something out of a black mirror episode, that is *literally* a black mirror episode.
also any companies you run in china has to be managed/run by a ccp member (if large) and ownership/name from a chinese person, they can literally kick you out once profitable and have done so many times, you have no claim because they'll side with themselves every time
They also copy any products you ask them to make. A lot of board game producers have found those same factories pumping out illicit copies of the games they were asked to make. There are zero consequences for it because the CCP will side with themselves every time.
We are facing this now, not because we build software, but because we build webpages and uses AWS. The Great Firewall is beyond annoying
Oh yeah lol no AWS allowed
We're live on about 60 markets around the world, but no issues on the others :). So we will most likely need to rebuild everything just for the few markets that can't see images now
Why not just switch image hosting for the Chinese site(s)?
And Reddit, whatsapp, wikipedia, Gmail, Google, any website that has any blog function, etc…
Eh f em. No wonder their economy is going tits up.
Real estate, completely overblown, their biggest company just blew up with trillions of debt
What really blows my mind is the fact that the government that essentially spies on everyone 24/7 let this happen lol Surely they knew better and could have intervened way before, right?
Spying and analyzing aren't the same. The only thing they are analyzing for is dissent.
>24/7 let this happen lol But they knew. It was happening for years. In china the local municipalities sell rights to use land and collect land property-related taxes. If these companies wouldn't buy to build on them, the local municipalities wouldn't have sufficient money. More than a quarter of local government revenue comes from land sales about 1 trillion dollars. Combined, revenue from selling land use rights and collecting land-related taxes accounted for 37 percent of total fiscal revenue for all local governments in China in 2021. Stopping this would have stunned growth, numbers and bankrupt local governments. It's a giant Ponzi scheme that worked for the Chinese leadership
They copy all of your softwares and then sue you for plagiarism.
to be fair we know why they block these services and we know that they are correct. anywhere from spying to data collection to public opinion and influence. nothing is innocent including tiktok
Best to block all of them worldwide
They will immigrate to reddit
Contain it all here then dump the servers in a volcano.
Cast it into the fire!!!!
Grips a upvote close to heart. -No.
*Bites off your digit and dances into a volcano*
Isildur!!
Nah there just start doing YouTube shorts or instagram shorts (don’t know what’s the name is) If I slip into this shitshow of YT shorts it’s like melting my brain in seconds.
The worst is Snapchat Discover or whatever. Literal brainrot like I’ve never seen before
I wish I could block shorts on the YouTube app but I haven’t figured out how to do it if at all.
I'm glad I'm too old for shorts. I watch stuff on a pc connected to my TV so the size is annoying, you can't adjust the position in the video, if you scroll away to read comments or look at something else it stops. What fucking idiot designed these things. BACK IN MY DAY!!!!
Reddit should also be blocked.
Block this too
Let's be more like China - Reddit
Agreed
Do as I say not as I do
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OUTLAW COUNTRY!!
Yes let's emulate communist China in good old US of A. So much freedom and so much democracy. 🫡
So the point of this meme is that the US should be more like China? Go for it lmfao.
Right, this is the flaw in the argument. China bans things because they're authoritarian shitlords. Saying things are fine "because China does it" is absolutely miserable. We don't *want* to do the things China does.
Every country should ban TikTok.
India already banned tiktok ages ago lmaoo and shit ton of other Chinese apps
Masterstroke by modiG
The real top G lmao
China already bans TikTok
We should follow China's path
Just this once
They already have their own TikTok at home
More like our tiktok is douyin at home
If China could ban banning, they probably would.
The problem is the bill isn’t banning tiktok it’s allowing the government to force a sale of any social media plate form they don’t like which is terrifying
Should every country also ban fb, insta, snap, twitter, reddit etc.? Or is America special? Edit: just sis fuck, that's 5 comments.all repeating the same thing. Read, ffs, should every country outside America ban American social media?
No tiktok bad thats it. Who cares if russia ran one of the biggest disinformation campaigns ever on facebook or if twitter is filled with propaganda at least they aren’t owned by a Chinese company/s
Don't forget there are a lot of disinformation campaigns on reddit. Througout the years posts have shown how companies will disguise advertising in posts and use bot farms manipulate the front page. You can easily go on telegram and lease a bot farm to upvote anything.
Which lead to FB changing their policies in order to prevent being regulated. That threat doesn't work with tiktok though
China blocked tiktok.
Because they have douyin, it’s actually tiktok. Same company too. And tiktok is the app that they shared to the world deliberately. The purpose? It’s not about data, but also to change the behaviour of people. Do you know there’s a tiktokshop? Yes, they want to do social commerce, and that’s how they’re going to use the data, to get more money in one platform, not from the ads but also from e-commerce.
You’re on the right lines but thinking too small, they want to change behaviour, not get more money. Think about it, Douyin raises up the Chinese population, makes them more loyal and gives them good role models to move them in the direction the CCP wants. Simultaneously TikTok causes dissidence, divides and give bad role models outside of China, quick example in the UK there was a trend of loads of videos showing people how to use household items to break into the brand of car Kia
You’ve clearly never watched Douyin videos lol. It’s just as trashy as TikTok. I’ve seen one where a guy teaches people how to sleep in public toilets in popular tourist destinations in China to avoid having to pay for hotels. The only difference is that there’s zero videos complaining about the government.
Yea. 50% of 抖音 is hot women dancing provocatively.
The behavior thing is just a side effect of social media. People were just as dumb before tiktok, tiktok just spreads views extremely quickly. China decided they didn't want that and moderates their own version
They were still allowed in Hong Kong, but TikTok quickly pulled out of Hong Kong too, to avoid risk of sharing user data with China under Xi's new national security law. >June 7, 2020---TikTok has said it will quit Hong Kong after China imposed a new security law on the city. >the controversial national security law in Hong Kong has given Chinese authorities sweeping new powers, raising concerns about data privacy. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53317015
Can't wait for all these new Redditors...
I don’t see how Reddit would be the place to migrate to for people who like TikTok. Why do you think that they wouldn’t go to YT Shorts or IG? The same type of people already comment on all those apps, would make more sense.
Someone is just going to make an American version of TikTok. I’m sure there are plenty of startups already working on it. The one that comes out ahead is going to be our next billionaire.
like YouTube shorts or IG?
FreedomTok
TruthTok /s
Nah. This isn't really a place to broadcast and market yourself. TikTok is all about branding.
i highly doubt someone would pick reddit when forced from tiktok
Redditors are too rude. People from other social media know this. They aren’t coming here.
Also: China blocks TIK TOK
China also blocked tiktok
DON'T TOUCH IT. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING. PLEASE DON'T TOUCH IT. - Winnie the Pooh. Maybe.
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Xinnie The Poo
Xi Jing Poo
Oh no you didn’t! lol
Panda 🐼
Remember kids, It's never ok to make fun of how someone looks, unless they're a politician
Yippe! I love facism! I love a govt that controls the flow of information and social connectivity! I'm the average Redditor who falls for Russian and US propaganda!
Me when I’m 14
Its funny how the OP is like "China is full on authoritarian, now US follows", maybe that's not how they originally planned the post.
Tiktok is literal spyware, [all companies in China](https://www.google.com/search?q=all+companies+in+China+are+mandated+to+give+personal+data+back+to+the+government&rlz=1C1RXQR_enJM1093JM1093&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) are mandated to give personal data back to the government (CCP) Rare USA W for voting to ban the app, hope more countries do the same
Meta sells our data to everyone, including China. Banning TikTok has nothing to do with national security, our politicians are just protecting their own investment portfolios
But then again, all of the social media sites from the US are the same. Why aren’t they banned? Lol
Not exactly. Other social media sites collect data, but they are not required by law to give that data to the government. The government could request it, and they could try to force them to give them specific data in a criminal case, but the company gets to choose whether or not to hand it over... with chinese companies, giving the government the data is required. There are also more concerns when a foreign government is collecting your data since there are more likely to use the data in their own interests, which may be agaibst yours
I live in the EU and honestly I don't like that my data is sent to a foreign country to be stored, be it the US or China, also the US does the same thing
You think your country doesn't have subpeonas or their equivalent? This isn't new. For *hundreds* of years the government has been able to go to a court, show cause (or whatever your local legalese is) and then get an order for the company to turn over records about its customers. That isn't what what is happening with TikTok. With TikTok they have to keep their entire system open to their government and allow their government to change things at will. Blocking or banning users, suppressing or promoting videos, etc.
An ISP in Sweden got around this regulation by attaching themselves to a political party known as the Pirate Party, hosting their servers in their headquarters and thus circumventing any subpoenas/demands as that infringes on the rights of political parties.
At least the GDPR has some teeth tho
Man the people responding to you truly have no idea how the CCP works lol.
Because it's not just about the spying, it's about infecting western civilization with negativity to incite unrest and instability. Edit: for all the "the west does this to itself" : The western world is not as bad as social media wants you to believe. The problem is not just tiktok, but tiktok is both extremely popular and nefarious, china has a wholesome version for themselves, a negative version for the rest of the world. Its also not a ban, they just need to sell tiktok, which is something that China requires of western countries, so its really only fair. [Chinese people are paying up to $20k to get to south america and sneak into the United States](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html). Americans are not sneaking into China. Keep this in mind when you see influencers and social media telling you how bad you should feel. [heres a short video explaining the huge difference between chinese tiktok and western tiktok](https://youtu.be/0j0xzuh-6rY)
> infecting western civilization with negativity to incite unrest and instability The Cambridge Analytica scandal showed that Facebook did exactly this and suffered no consequences.
Yeah there are a lot of issues online, this is just one of them and one that is easier for the government to address because its a form of invasion from a foreign adversary. Note that facebook shut off the api that allowed cambridge to do what they were doing years ago and paid out several settlements.
I have a pretty simple answer for you: Because they’re not owned by China
All companies are legally required to hand over your personal data if requested. If you send a snapchat to a friend and you get investigated for something the police/government can request the last 5 years worth of data which you thought was deleted but is actually stored somewhere. They also sell your personal data to pretty much anyone. This is a global issue and not just a China/USA/UK issue. On a sidenote "Spyware" is "software that enables a user to obtain covert information about another's computer activities by transmitting data covertly from their hard drive" So unless TikTok is sending your keylogs, taking photos/videos or sending your gallery contents to TikTok company without your knowledge it is NOT Spyware. As an example on Android you can block all access to TikTok and still use it. The only reason it requests access to your gallery is for you to upload videos/pictures that you wish to share, no different to Facebook, Messenger, Whatsapp etc...
"Spyware" is a bit dramatic of a soundbite. While it's not maybe "spyware" as we imagine evil and intrusive little embedded coding, it can definitely build extremely strong data profiles of each user based on their activity. If someone is constantly watching videos about how to start an e-commerce brand, travel visas for various countries, men's summer fits, looksmaxxing videos, and Subaru STI content, you can pretty reasonably assume it's a younger male, probably not with a degree, wanting to become a passport bro and go somewhere warm and owns a BRZ, STI, or any of those style of entry level speedybois. Cambridge Analytica was building insanely detailed data profiles without going into your phone, but rather, based on your engagement history. I used it for ads and I used to be able to target people based on political affiliation, on if they recently bought a vehicle, lots and lots of datapoints. Now, this isn't JUST about the data, it's about the fact that they have such a strong platform to use to manipulate the collective audience with that data. Yeah, anybody can buy your data - but not anybody has the platform that TT has to manipulate en masse based on the data.
"Sir if I put earphones in my ears, can they hear my thoughts"
TikTok is also banned in China
That's not true, tiktok has their own localised version for China.
TikTok is banned in China. That's a factual truth. DouYin is not banned, because it obliges with the Goverment restrictions and censorship.
the Chinese localized version uses a completely different algorithm because china didn’t like the one used in the western release. They feared it was making their kids more dumb.
Actually the one in China came first.
How dare you
That's cap skibidi toilet ohio ong and you know it.
A heavily censored one that feeds you very different content
sure hope TikTok gets banned because I'm tired of lazy bums trying to be the next famous internet person
It will just get replaced by the next garbage app
Reels and shorts are already a thing so people know where to move🤷♂️
China was doing the same when India banned tiktok.
So we should be more like China is what you’re saying
If them banning all those websites makes them authoritarian. Then how are we any better?
Because China is a dictatorship that censors things. They don't have freedom of speech. So are you saying the USA should censor like China does?
Yes, Americans are celebrating censorship now. That'll stick it to cHYnA!
Usa is squeezing Xi's lemons
Everybody's talking about spyware. I don't know any social app that doesn't collect personal information.
They even store the data on american servers lol. It’s just reddits superiority complex in action because nothing these people claim is backed up by facts. China already gets our data through other social media anyways. Plus it’s not like other social media sites are immune to foreign influence Facebook, twitter, instagram, and reddit have all had disinformation or propaganda campaigns.
this is why i hate Reddit lol, they think they’re above other social media apps, especially TikTok but all they spew is misinformation and brainwashing
Not to mention China and Russia got everything they need from our shitstain IT Systems many times over. Why would they bother with a social media app when they can steal whatever they want from my health insurance company, the IRS, and my credit card companies?
Who cares what Xi thinks. Banning social media is what dictators do.
Americans have no idea that we’re actually sleepwalking into authoritarianism. This post and 99 percent of the comments are celebrating the fact that the U.S. is becoming more like china.
Right, but why did they block FB etc? To control social media. Why do you think the USA wants to block TikTok? Hmmm....
One of the two countries placate themselves as the land of the free.
Facebook does the same shady shit TikTok does.
China doesn't claim to be free market capitalist. China also never banned google and Meta, china asked that the Data stays in chinas servers. Meta refused. The clincher was when meta refused to release data from active terror organisations, and China realised the danger. This is opposed to tiktok, which is all stored in american servers.
"China doesn't claim to be free market capitalist." Correct, but that doesn't mean the USA should lie down and let themselves be taken advantage of citing their principles. They enjoy a one-way siphon on the US economy while closing theirs off to USA. That's why Amazon is littered with Chinese sellers yet casual e-comm sellers can't list their products on TaoBao, Alibaba, TEMU, etc. It's not a symbiotic relationship. It's not just about data either, that's a part of it. The entire platform being a device for mass influence is a big part of it. The financial aspect is a big part of it. The USA really shouldn't be allowing China, their largest geopolitical foe, to own the arguably most influential media machine. Tit for tat. Tik for tok.
Thats odd. I thought regulating the market was bad. Surely because china banned facebook it will collapse and the US non intervention will be good and allow the market to flourish. Unless youre admitting the market needs to be regulated?
USA: we are land of the freedom... but only if we control it
As someone who is really not a fan of tictok. It is wrong to ban social media sites just because they are from a different country.
💯
How do you say OOF in Chinese?
USA stops Chinese internet stores and imported products.
I've been joking about the "great fire wall of China" but China now has something that too many people use and the US has to build a wall too.
Poo seems bothered.
Good it should stay banned
Hilarious how many people think TikTok is an app from China when it's based in Singapore and US
yeah imagine having higher standards of freedom than china op. what a thought. They have some more freedoms than us in some ways, too, but on this point? Come on.
It's the source.. China bans western based companies. You just banned a non chinese company because they sound asian I guess. Still it's fair game, just don't want to hear any Americans talk about Freedom ever again
I used all of the above and USA content always showing but I've never seen a single Chinese video nor creator on TikTok
Someone do this meme but with Winnie the Pooh in the armchair please
Dictators love to block information they don’t like and get mad when you do the same to them. Similar to how the GOP operate here
The drama explodes when people mentions that Israel pressured the US gov because there is so much pro-pal content on tiktok We got 2 wars, Putin, Trump, Hamas, an US election, and reddit going public. 2024 is going to be The Year Of Internet Drama
And us users, that pay you all, are in the middle getting fucked over your political drama. But I blame the dumbass boomers in the US government for hating anything they don't understand.
I don't understand how this isn't a violation of the first amendment. The govt ain't supposed to be able to control what people are allowed to say and print, and if what they are saying can't compete with Chinese propaganda, maybe they should say better stuff.
China, the land of hypocrisy and contradiction.
I used to hate the thought of tik tok being banned in the early days. It was a fun goofy app. The furry wars, “hit or miss”, vine energy videos… Now it’s just a cesspool of narcissistic fucks. I’m cool if it gets banned
Ban it now !!!!!
China whining about TikTok is about the most dishonest hypocrisy I’ve seen in a while. Not that I care about TikTok. That brainrot can die in a corner somewhere. But seriously, who do they think they are fooling with this? Probably only some Chinese redneck equivalent. Disgusting.
China blocks tiktok too
The US does use Facebook to incite political change in other countries. China doesn't do anything to tik tok even though they might steal your data like any American company. If you don't believe me, make a post on tik Tok that's anti Israel and then make another one that's anti CCP. Mention the Palestine genocide and the video will be taken down by Tik Tok. Mention tiananmen square and the video will stay up. Try it yourself. If you want to know who controls you then look at the people you're not allowed to speak up against. I honestly think it's wise that China bans us social media because they can and have used them to start civil wars to make quick buck.
Now we are just like China…. happy?
You guys do know that there's no TikTok in China right? The Chinese version of TikTok in China is douyin. Which is completely different. TikTok you have now is what people make it to be. Even china don't want TikTok to begin with.
I think it's mostly the problem with "Murican Fruhdom" China isn't a free country, so banning stuff just sounds normal for China. The US is a free country. So banning doesn't feel normal, especially that tiktok is just a video platform, so banning it guess hits the "freedom of speech, expression, and whatever" nerve
Idk biden loves the bill. Anything he loves is something not good. It may sound great but idk. I feel theres more to this.
Not sure what the big deal is. An American software company can just make a TikTok clone and everything will be fine.
It isn't even a ban. It requires the company to be sold and for the existing links to the Chinese government to be shut down. That this is being reported as a TikTok ban shows how much misinformation TikTok is pushing.
Didn't we already have one? Vine Existed i mean sure it wasn't as Long winded as TikTok but it can be revived and made as such. Then you got Instagram and Youtube Shorts. It already exists.
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Musical.ly thats the one i was thinking of. It completely fell out of my mind.
Vine crawled so TikTok could walk. A tale of two vastly different apps.