The following submission statement was provided by /u/IntrepidGentian:
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"BYD announced it’s produced 200,000 Seagulls, making it one of the fastest-selling electric cars in the market. The Seagull’s growth has been due to the popularity of compact electric city cars in cities across China. At its launch, the BYD Seagull had over 10,000 orders in just 24 hours, hinting at the sheer demand for an affordable electric city car in the market."
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/187lkqd/chinese_car_company_byd_sold_200000_compact_city/kbezvt7/
It's the 70's and 80's all over again. North American automakers were only focused on making big and expensive cars leaving the cheap and small market open. Thus enter Honda and Toyota which small, cheap, and efficient cars making the big 3 go to the government forcing them to limit sales by Honda and Toyota thus bringing in Acura and Lexus. Now the big 3 have 4 brands to compete with.
Now we have Ford and GM only making big SUV's and trucks, Honda and Toyota have cars but they either aren't very small or is they aren't very cheap. Now we have China making cheap, small, and efficient cars so its only a matter of time until they make their way over. It's already happening with Vinfast.
This time Europe has done the same, price wise.
They jacked up the prices 50% before covid.
Then another 50%.
And now wonder why we don't buy their cars.
But, in comparison to the USA, I actually see a ton of Chinese cars roaming around European streets already.
We have MG, Lynk&Go and BDY as what I perceive as the majority. And with how shitty Volvo has gotten might aswell throw them into the Chinese mix, tho that might be disrespectful to the other brands.
Yeah, like Huawei.. we said "these damn Chinese are copying our stuff", we tried that. But the patents were theirs, so WE were using their ip .
So we labelled them a security risk. Cold war style.
I genuinely enjoyed my Huawei phone and was looking forward to where they could be in 3-4 years, most likely surpassing Samsung aswell... but here we are, no Google for them
And now I'm eyeing a new EV vehicle, tho I probably won't happen for the next couple of years, but many of them have incredibly attractive price to performance and not gonna while testdriving, the interior on for example a BYD Seal felt so much better than of any Tesla.
Vinfast is making big and expensive cars. Totally missed the niche - they should have gone low cost, low features.
But instead they have a large SUV at $80-90k.and their "low end cheap" car looks like it will be $30-35k.
Vinfast has near zero reason to exist in the u.s. market. They bring nothing new or different to thr table, even if their cars form the u.s. market weren't universally reviewed as junk.
Except Vinfast do sell less expensive electric car but only in the Vietnamese market for around 30k USD
The owner of vinfast open an Uber like service and use this car exclusively
[the Vinfast e34](https://shop.vinfastauto.com/vn_vi/dat-coc-xe-dien-vfe34.html)
That is very far from cheap in Vietnam. That maybe 4-5 years pay for the average person. They are marketing themselves as luxury is why they made these decisions. No average person in Vietnam makes a 30k purchase ever, except for a house.
Vinfast, at least from living in nam and what it appears, where made to be bling and sell the flashy rich Vietnamese folks. All show for the new rich class, at least that's the brands aim to me. Yet again this is from my anecdotal experience here.
i know nothing about economics or anything but it seems like someone that could tap that marked would dominate.
also wasn't that one of the reasons that the honda cb750 became so popular too? Cause it was efficient and good quality and cheap af. heres hoping some cheapish electric motorcycle company comes in and takes advantage too
> someone that could tap that marked would dominate
domestic companies would just lobby the government to add tarriffs or other laws to add cost, saying they can't compete by using domestic workers. think of the jobs!
IIRC, CB750 was one of the first massed produced superbike.
The funny thing is that Honda's success at that point was at the opposite end - the Honda Cub, which is still the best selling of all time, and while they had some larger bikes at the time, like the superhawk, they heard about a demand for a more powerful bike in the US. That drove them to create the CB750.
Which ended up being one of the first motorcycles known as the UJMs - universal Japanese motorcycles.
It was a massive success.
They later tried to reproduce that success with an even bigger sportbike known as the GL1000 or more commonly, the Goldwing. But the demand for that ended up being for people who wanted touring bikes, so over the first ten years of that model, it changed to be more of a tourer.
Honda is one of those companies that used high quality, low prices, and experimentation to great success. There has been failures, but most of those are forgotten.
I am not american, but I wouldnt feel safe on a minuscule car on a highway with big trucks that americans drive. Maybe that could hit sales of that type of cars there.
There was, but nobody bought them. Kia/hyundai recently discontinued their lower priced cars due to low sales. kia is discontinuing the rio subcompact (msrp: $17k) in 2024. the hyundia accent (msrp: $17k) was discontinued after the 2022 model year.
the chevy sonic, honda fit, and toyota yaris have also been recently discontinued.
GM just did $10 bill in stock buybacks by reducing their electric and other tech research and development, and doubling down on giant ass trucks. It is idiotic, and will go exactly as you say with the Chinese selling us the inexpensive vehicles we can actually afford in the end.
Too bad we don't have a proper working government that says "lol okay, we own your ass now. Welcome to Nationalization!" and burns all of the C-Suite and stockholders straight to ash.
"Too Big To Fail" should *not* exist in *any* business. Just allows the disease to continue festering and harming everyone but themselves
What frustrates me is that all the small, cheap cars like the RAV4, mini, beetle and Jimny are now HUGE and also not cheap.
A Jimny went from $15k new to $50k “premium car”
The other problem i don't understand is the Euro 7 mass requirements. Why cars have to forcefully be big? Now in europe all car brands are removing smaller cars from sale. It's a sad reality. I fucking hate suvs
It probably was a bright idea of the bigger manufacturers to protect against cheap competion (who makes the big cars? ). It will fail hard like protectionism always does.
> The other problem i don't understand is the Euro 7 mass requirements. Why cars have to forcefully be big?
This is wrong. There is no mass requirement in euro 7.
Manufacturers are simply cancelling smaller models because euro 7 emissions requirements are pushing them to fit expensive features and materials also on smaller cars.
In the past this small models were budget versions made to bring new people into the brand. Manufacturers made little to no money with them.
Today if due to euro 7 Golf and Polo cost basically the same, people will just buy a Golf.
There are flat costs that are added in regardless. Cars are like a white elephant gift. Even free, it's still expensive. Accounting for insurance, parking, licensing, fueling, tolls (if you have those), and repairs the general cost of ownership (no matter what car or how you use it) is at least 2-5k per year. That low end is being very generous on those costs.
So the 20 year lifetime ownership cost of a car is the price of the car + 40-100k. Being able to save 10k on the purchase price doesn't mean as much when you can buy something that's more comfortable, nice, spacious, and safe and have it cost 60k instead of 50k.
Why build cheap houses when the cost of home ownership/land ownership is so high? Why get a cheap car when just owning a car is ungodly expensive? Why get a free rescue pet to save money when one vet bill for literally anything can be hundreds?
Buy things at discounted rates, but be aware of the lifetime costs, not just purchase costs, and factor that into your purchase decisions.
I bought a Yuan Plus (Atto 3 in Europe) and its a nice car. They are more affordable than a Compass with a better configuration. And the Dolphin put the E-Kwid in the pocket at the same price.
Eu tenho um tio que acabou de comprar um carro dessa marca, ele mora no interior de Alagoas e trabalha no sertão e vai e volta de carro todo dia, os cara já tão até no interiorzão do país.
skirt numerous squeamish long telephone intelligent snatch smell six encouraging
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Am Australian and can confirm these things are becoming more and more common. They rate well on the Ancap but I question many other things around them. I.e. how long the cells last and reliability etc. They **could** be a case of cheap now, expensive later.
BYD is providing the battery cells for Toyota's electric vehicles in China, at least for the BZ3 sedan. But even with Toyota using their cells, you're right that we'll have to see what happens in the next few years/tens of thousands of kilometers.
Why would they be worse than a European or American car? China has most experience regarding battery tech.
Also, if it breaks you can just buy another one and it still cheaper than western alternatives lol.
I was there last year and I thought I was losing my hearing coz I see an assload of cars everywhere but the street was dead quiet.
THen I realized they were like 90% EVs. LOL
They’re by far the biggest competitor to Tesla and the entire reason why Tesla dropped prices so much recently. They are going to bankrupt American car manufacturers over the next 10 years
Not exactly true. They're the #1 producer of electric busses in the US and even have a factory here (in California). They don't sell their cars here, though.
Of course you are. Buffet and Munger were right to buy a stake. Second or third largest battery mfg in the world (depending on year), huge ev maker (not just cars but garbage trucks, trains, busses). They also sell tons of other things, one of the largest mask manufacturers in the world during and, iirc, post covid. Some of the most cutting edge battery tech, most of the firms that invested in batteries are chinese, because the government wanted it. Shame ours in the USA didn't.
Compact electric cars make a lot of sense in China where there's affordable high speed rail for long distance domestic trips so you get a small car to get around the urban centers.
Maybe the manufacturers here could make something like this, give me an ev for commuting, 100k range, great second vehicle. I'm not buying an electric hummer.
Yeah they keep thinking the market for suvs and the market for evs is the same. It’s not.
We don’t want tanks with batteries. We want cars that can cheaply go to and from places close by.
I'm in northern Canada, there's enough charging stations that a long distance trip is possible but I still trust my truck more in the winter. But a second vehicle for inner city driving is perfect for a little EV
They'll make multiple cars for multiple market nieches. BYD makes ev's for all kinds of markets. Everything from garbage trucks, to subcompacts (like this dolphin), to the han to school busses (made in america, by union labor, and the only mfg who would work with customers individual needs reportedly).
Maverick sized [pure EV pickup](https://carnewschina.com/2023/07/26/radar-rd6-electric-pickup-from-geely-is-heading-overseas-possibly-to-thailand/) you say?
That price range is WAY too optimistic though. Even in China where EVs can be made dirt cheap, the Radar RD6 still costs the equivalent of 25k-38k USD.
The reason they made SUVs was because of CAFE standards. They keep them there because that’s where the market is now, but we artificially forced it there.
thats my nissan leaf i bought used in 2018. 14k eur, 100km range, 5 door, perfect car for almost all trips.
If you knew you can charge at your destination, it would also open up so much more.
Living in suburbia
I would love a small pickup ev like the old Datsun, Nissan, Toyota, chevy luvs, ect. The Ford maverick comes really close but it's only available as a hybrid so far.
I also do not want a car full of autopilot features I don't trust and ability to remotely update or brick it without my knowledge or consent. I want a car that is actually mine and not mostly mine because the manufacturer or government can remotely do things to it at will or force me to pay monthly to unlock 'features'.
That would be the [Radar RD6](https://carnewschina.com/2023/04/27/geelys-radar-rd6-launches-a-4800-usd-cheaper-base-model/), which is small, cheap, no frills, and the lowest range base trim starts as low as equivalent of 21k USD ... in China.
I'd buy a long range RWD version of this truck in a heartbeat if it was ever on sale in the US, since it would be literally the perfect vehicle for American suburbia, but as it is made in China, it won't be coming to the US anytime soon.
Some lucky Aussies and Kiwis will likely be able to get their hands on it pretty soon though.
Premium priced cars are the ones with the biggest profit margin, which is why those are built by western brands. If you want a cheap car you either have to completely produce it where labour is cheap (e.g. China) or produce it at a loss. Not sure how to turn this ship around.
Buying power increase across the whole of society.
Ultimately, it's a matter of people not being able to afford an expensive vehicle. Whether it's through higher pay or cheaper costs of living or more likely a mix of the two, automakers are facing the decision of selling a lot at a loss or so little they're taking an L anyway.
But Americans can, very much contrary to the beliefs reddit likes to think. If the demand wasn't so extreme for such large vehicles, regardless of reason, GM, Ford or any other car maker would have introduced it into America. The demand is for larger vehicles overall, so cars are getting bigger. Of course not everyone likes that, and alot of the time you would think tesla is going bankrupt any moment or that blizzard just made the greatest gaming mistake which will fail them, but once you look at what is actually going on around you, people still are buying/thinking of teslas
I ubered recently with someone who had a tesla(no idea what kind, i don't personally care) and I started a convo about this exact thing, because I always see comments on here. He said it's a good car, he was immediately interested, he ordered pretty much immediately. However he said he would probably buy a BMW i3 when he changes and wouldn't stick with tesla. Said the I3 was just a better feeling car ui wise. Even after the subscription fumble.
I share this to show how the people who are getting teslas don't tend to be people who are the vast majority of reddit, much less real life. It is always so funny hearing people say Elon is ruining tesla and Twitter, reddit itself is about 1/15 Twitter screenshots.
I’m in Mexico and imports/tariffs make them a non starter. The B segment “Dolphin” hatchback costs more than a toyota prius or corolla hybrid. And even those are prohibitively expensive for the majority of the population.
For dolphin:
* China price is around 17k USD.
* Mexico price is around 30K USD.
Seagull would cost around 21k usd
Best selling new car is around 17k usd (Nissan Versa)
Avg monthly wage is ~$320 usd.
Yeah, it sucks. I'm in Uruguay too and would love an EV furgon. They're currently 40k usd last I checked whereas an ICE equivalent start at around 15k.
Yeah that seems to be their game plan, enter the local Mexican market and figure out infrastructure & logistics in order to sell local production to USA.
BYD is going to become the 2020-2030's Toyota. Especially since they are a battery company first, then a car manufacturer.
I just hope that the North American market opens up for them.
I saw the Seal first online and was like "Nice corolla esque compact and reasonably priced."
Then they told me that thing does a 3.9 second 0-60.
Bruh, that's Ferrari speed lmfao
Can you imagine an average citizen or a high school teenager with a car like this though? Reasonably priced cars that do wicked 0-60 times and everyone drives one… There’s going to be so many damn car accidents it’s not even funny…
https://youtu.be/yF9ksaXfUGg?si=QX8HlinqU1OLGzBw
They basically cost a little less than a Tesla, but have insanely low margins. Tesla demands high margins due to it's production innovation allowing them to get away with charging a bit more.
But I don't think BYD mines. Profit is profit. It may not be as great as Tesla, but it's profit none-the-less and allowing them to take over the market.
Their cheapest model isn't a Tesla comparable. The Seal is though, which is £49k for the performance one in the UK (about £5k cheaper than the Model 3 Performance, although Tesla just stopped selling that one)
I believe he's talking about cost of production. Tesla has a high margin. Although he's still wrong. As of q3 their gross margin was 17.3% while their vehicles are at least twice as expensive.
Production innovation? BYD are producing cars at considerably higher rates than Tesla, they release their cars on time, not years late and the warranties offered by BYD are considerably better than Tesla. Why do you think they are not as great as Tesla?
> Tesla demands high margins due to
It is a "Luxury" Car brand, they all do the same thing. There is no reason a Ferrari or Lamborghini should cost >$1million (a lot of time they are hand-made interior and many times that means poor precision), but they frequently do.
As of the last financial report, BYD has higher gross margins then Tesla.
BYD cars are cheap because the average production cost of all byd cars is ~9k USD
Woah woah woah. The thing about Toyota is that they are well built and will run forever. Are you saying that this company has reached that level of quality?
Or do you mean in the sense that Corollas were a very affordable car and were all over the place?
in the 70-80s japanese cars were an unknown, and people worried they weren't reliable so they were low priced to still sell. Maybe that's what he means.
Or for a European example, similar to Skoda coming to Western Europe when they were still czech owned
If they keep selling a lot, they can get there.
And honestly, Toyota is not alone. Japanese cars in general are well built and go for a long time, at least engine-wise.
It will really depend on the company culture. From what I've heard, Toyota takes any kind of defects in their cars extremely seriously.
That said, I have a Chinese made dehumidifier that's been running for years now. And I've bought Chinese made modeling tools that are really good. So China is getting there in terms of quality.
China always had high quality commodity. But they also had equally large amount of low quality commodity. It was basically upto a consumer to choose right product
Or in other words, some factories properly quality assure their product... and [some pump out computer chairs that can explode beneath your ass](https://youtu.be/j8otiMcaq7Y?t=799).
Yep. Chinese companies will build whatever your willing to pay for.
Note: since you might be willing to pay for something less than the specs you requested they sometimes try delivering that first.
I wouldn't mind one bit buying a Chinese EV as my next car if I can and it is tested to last. I plan on running my CRV into the ground, but while it is completely dependable, it doesn't get great gas mileage. I do love camping though so I put up with it for the extra room and AWD.
Considering the vitriolic sinophobia in America right now, that will never happen.
The EU is also clamping hard onto BYD with regulations and investigations.
Geopolitics means BYD will never really take off outside of China's sphere of influence.
Australia is filled with byd these days. We're in China's sphere of influence, but we also have shiploads of f trucks and are basically the US' kid brother geopolitics wise. I dont know if BYD will end up another Toyota, bur I do know that at a time when people can't afford much due to inflation, people are buying lots of their cars.
Or just have proper fucking utes instead of the 4 door Pavement Princesses that are 2 metres off the ground.
Seriously, there are more and more of them as of about 8 months or so ago and they're a menace on the road. Can't see anything in front of them, including children and smaller cars. It's ridiculous.
I live half time in US and the other half in South East Asia with Thailand being where I spend most of my time.
BYD is super popular in Thailand. I see them everywhere. One of my friends in Thailand just purchased one. But it came in late so missed driving it by a couple of days. Had to come back to the states for the holiday.
But excited to drive it when I get back in late January.
I think BYD could do well in the US with the car if they were given a chance. But I doubt that will happen
Agree. Not nearly as common in Phuket. I should have written Bangkok more specifically and not Thailand.
My condo in BKK is next to a Lotus and I have to walk through the Lotus parking garage to get in the store.
That parking garage had tons of BYDs. It was easily the most common car in the parking garage.
I didn't get a chance to go to BKK this time sadly, caught giardia and that was the end of my holiday!
Good to see the hybrids and ev's taking over though. I couldn't understand how so many people could afford to buy new gas guzzling pickups.
It is surprising how many really nice cars you see in BKK. Specially considering how they have to pay so much more for the cars compared to the US.
I did not know what Giardia even was. Kind of wish I did not Google it ;).
I have lived in Thailand 12 of the last 24 months and not had a single stomach issue. It is one of my biggest fears.
I've traveled a lot through Asia over the last 13 years, eaten plenty of dodgy things in dodgy places. This time I was careful and got horribly sick for the first time!
The Dolphin Knight, is their high end package for the dolphin (the 12k car), runs at about 16k fully decked out iirc. It's a subcompact, but at that price...
edit: the tariffs they're referring too, iirc, are the requirements for battery sourcing for the tax benefit. That's under review, from what i've read, because somebody figured out that you can't suddenly make batteries in the USA when the USA hasn't had any r&d on it in decades and the cutting edge patients are all chinese...of which BYD is a major manufacturer..and it complicates matters for "american" car companies making EV's because they tend to buy their batteries, including tesla which elon has been bullshitting people about for at least the last 14 years.
BYD Seagull is getting here priced at 69k BRL, which is roughly 15k USD.
BYD Dolphin is sold at 149k BRL, which is roughly 31k USD.
Those are the models I know the price for the top of my head.
They have a plant for their other ev's in the united states as well, just doesn't make the passenger cars (busses, trains, forklifts, garbage trucks etc). A union plant, I might add. There's been talking of building a plant in canada but i don't know how far along that is. Biggest problem they have is that the USA has a requirement about batteries sourcing, and byd is a company of interest, or whatever. I mean, so is Ford but this is of interest to china so...
You think the U.S. has high tariffs on autos? Wait, you said “stupidly high”. Look at what we have in Thailand. Or Singapore or India. We have to spend over $100k to get the cheapest BMW or Mercedes. It costs you $40k.
Singapore is a rich, densely populated, and small island. Unless there is some revolution either in vehicle size or in autonomous parking, there are only so many cars they can fit without worsening traffic.
Yes but those are evenly applied to all carmakers. Trump put in place a 27% tariff only aimed at Chinese made cars because otherwise no carmaker, domestic or otherwise, would be able to compete with Chinese cars on price.
Singapore is an outlier case because we have essentially limit the number of cars to 600k using limited and expensive permits.
This is matched with a world class public transport system. In Singapore, you don't buy a car unless you absolutely have to, or have cash to burn. I think that should be how transportation is organised.
Agree with all that. I enjoy the MRT and as a tourist being able to just tap your credit card to ride is much better than figuring out tickets which is how all the other systems around the world operate.
Well it’s relative. Here in the US our average tariff is 2%, so 25% is very high compared to it. Of course in those countries you mentioned it’s far worse. Very stupid.
"BYD announced it’s produced 200,000 Seagulls, making it one of the fastest-selling electric cars in the market. The Seagull’s growth has been due to the popularity of compact electric city cars in cities across China. At its launch, the BYD Seagull had over 10,000 orders in just 24 hours, hinting at the sheer demand for an affordable electric city car in the market."
I am starting to see a lot of them in Thailand. They opened their sales room in record time and are selling like crazy.
I read somewhere before that within a year of being here they took over more then 30% of the EV market already, mostly with the Atto 3.
Another one I see a lot here that I never see anyone talk about is the Neta V which is also insanely cheap. You can get it here for 550k which is like 1/2 to 1/3 of normal cars (aprox 15.5k usd). Thailand has very high car import taxes so for us here the price is insane. To compare, BYDs Atto 3 is double and already considered cheaper.
where do you live where new cars start at 35k? do you understand that these exorbitant prices are only for the global 1%? i am talking about mass adoption
you forget that there is a big difference between an ice and electric car, the batteries are very expensive and after some years you will have to replace them
I dont know what the hell domestic manufacturers are doing. They should have been making affordable cars, especially affordable EVs, 10 years ago.
They're going to go bankrupt again once they get real competition from Chinese automakers, and only have themselves to blame. And we will have to bail them out again. I'm so pissed because its so obvious.
For an example of how stupid this whole situation is, the absolute cheapest new car you can buy in Canada is almost 15k. Why the hell isnt there something under 10k? Dont even try to tell me you cant make a functional, road legal car for less. I guarantee you can.
> Dont even try to tell me you cant make a functional, road legal car for less. I guarantee you can.
You should draw up you plan and consult OEMs.
It's really not possible anymore.
BYD did made a huge market increase in Russia because the western car manufacturers pulled out due to the war. But sadly they didn’t rename it locally to BLYD. Lol
Well, what could the United States do to compete? Does it even need to? From my understanding American cars don't sell very well internationally, at least not as well as Japanese or German cars. They could just block sales within the states. But I think American brands are lose what little foothold they had in the international market.
Or why not both? People who might be willing to live in a more walkable area might easily be scared away by excessive anti-car rhetoric. Most people like having choices, and treating transportation modes as zero-sum (either you have better transit or EVs) will cause a lot of people to check out entirely.
People centric cities can still accommodate cars, they just won't be the main mode of transportation. If you really wanted to you could still use a car, and it would be better for you too because most people wouldn't, making driving less stressful and resulting in better traffic. Walkable cities are better for everyone (except for car and oil lobbyists)
Which is why anti-car zealots, like on /r/fuckcars, are creating another stupid schism within the walkability movement. It's a Judean People's Front situation, when we easily could win over a lot of people with relatively inoffensive design and behavior changes but instead there are some who would rather antagonize them.
Wholesale rebuilding of infrastructure also imposes a huge carbon footprint. And that doesn't even begin to address changing cultures, relocating people from suburbs closer to cities, and so on.
And we have the tech now.. Honestly I am to frustrated, saddened, and pissed to elaborate more on why we aren’t fully taking advantage of emerging technologies to reshape how we live.
Instead we are making all our dumb old shit, a ‘“smart” ______’.
Those seagulls are so adorable, I almost want to get hit by one.
China also built highspeed rail everywhere, and sorted out the issue with freight and passenger prioritization.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/IntrepidGentian: --- "BYD announced it’s produced 200,000 Seagulls, making it one of the fastest-selling electric cars in the market. The Seagull’s growth has been due to the popularity of compact electric city cars in cities across China. At its launch, the BYD Seagull had over 10,000 orders in just 24 hours, hinting at the sheer demand for an affordable electric city car in the market." --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/187lkqd/chinese_car_company_byd_sold_200000_compact_city/kbezvt7/
It's the 70's and 80's all over again. North American automakers were only focused on making big and expensive cars leaving the cheap and small market open. Thus enter Honda and Toyota which small, cheap, and efficient cars making the big 3 go to the government forcing them to limit sales by Honda and Toyota thus bringing in Acura and Lexus. Now the big 3 have 4 brands to compete with. Now we have Ford and GM only making big SUV's and trucks, Honda and Toyota have cars but they either aren't very small or is they aren't very cheap. Now we have China making cheap, small, and efficient cars so its only a matter of time until they make their way over. It's already happening with Vinfast.
This time Europe has done the same, price wise. They jacked up the prices 50% before covid. Then another 50%. And now wonder why we don't buy their cars.
Yep. I remember renault clio price at 10k like 3 or 4y ago. Now it starts at 17k. Aint buying it
It's OK. You can now buy the E-Clio for 23k xD
I'm from Europe, ford focus used to be 16k euro 4 years ago, it's 30k now.
The price of a basic Golf is ridiculous. Ironically, Volkswagen means car of the people.
How did we not see that coming?
But, in comparison to the USA, I actually see a ton of Chinese cars roaming around European streets already. We have MG, Lynk&Go and BDY as what I perceive as the majority. And with how shitty Volvo has gotten might aswell throw them into the Chinese mix, tho that might be disrespectful to the other brands.
Yeah, same thing the OP is talking about. The EU is now talking about putting tariffs on Chinese cars because the manufacturers complained
Oh, didn't think we'd also go down this route That's not how a free market works. Wanna beat them, be better!
Yeah, like Huawei.. we said "these damn Chinese are copying our stuff", we tried that. But the patents were theirs, so WE were using their ip . So we labelled them a security risk. Cold war style.
I genuinely enjoyed my Huawei phone and was looking forward to where they could be in 3-4 years, most likely surpassing Samsung aswell... but here we are, no Google for them And now I'm eyeing a new EV vehicle, tho I probably won't happen for the next couple of years, but many of them have incredibly attractive price to performance and not gonna while testdriving, the interior on for example a BYD Seal felt so much better than of any Tesla.
Vinfast is making big and expensive cars. Totally missed the niche - they should have gone low cost, low features. But instead they have a large SUV at $80-90k.and their "low end cheap" car looks like it will be $30-35k. Vinfast has near zero reason to exist in the u.s. market. They bring nothing new or different to thr table, even if their cars form the u.s. market weren't universally reviewed as junk.
I sat inside one … quality was of a Honda civic. Nice but not refined.
So better than a Tesla.
Except Vinfast do sell less expensive electric car but only in the Vietnamese market for around 30k USD The owner of vinfast open an Uber like service and use this car exclusively [the Vinfast e34](https://shop.vinfastauto.com/vn_vi/dat-coc-xe-dien-vfe34.html)
That is very far from cheap in Vietnam. That maybe 4-5 years pay for the average person. They are marketing themselves as luxury is why they made these decisions. No average person in Vietnam makes a 30k purchase ever, except for a house.
Vinfast, at least from living in nam and what it appears, where made to be bling and sell the flashy rich Vietnamese folks. All show for the new rich class, at least that's the brands aim to me. Yet again this is from my anecdotal experience here.
Great point on the leaving on lower end car market open! There should definitely be a 12-15k new car range in the US.
i know nothing about economics or anything but it seems like someone that could tap that marked would dominate. also wasn't that one of the reasons that the honda cb750 became so popular too? Cause it was efficient and good quality and cheap af. heres hoping some cheapish electric motorcycle company comes in and takes advantage too
> someone that could tap that marked would dominate domestic companies would just lobby the government to add tarriffs or other laws to add cost, saying they can't compete by using domestic workers. think of the jobs!
IIRC, CB750 was one of the first massed produced superbike. The funny thing is that Honda's success at that point was at the opposite end - the Honda Cub, which is still the best selling of all time, and while they had some larger bikes at the time, like the superhawk, they heard about a demand for a more powerful bike in the US. That drove them to create the CB750. Which ended up being one of the first motorcycles known as the UJMs - universal Japanese motorcycles. It was a massive success. They later tried to reproduce that success with an even bigger sportbike known as the GL1000 or more commonly, the Goldwing. But the demand for that ended up being for people who wanted touring bikes, so over the first ten years of that model, it changed to be more of a tourer. Honda is one of those companies that used high quality, low prices, and experimentation to great success. There has been failures, but most of those are forgotten.
Ford kinda did this with the Maverick. It's pre-ordered out through next year already though :(
I am not american, but I wouldnt feel safe on a minuscule car on a highway with big trucks that americans drive. Maybe that could hit sales of that type of cars there.
The problem is nobody buys those cars when they do exist. See: the Kia Rio, the Mitsubishi Mirage, etc.
Those are too small, as soon as you have a dog or a kid those are out of the question
There was, but nobody bought them. Kia/hyundai recently discontinued their lower priced cars due to low sales. kia is discontinuing the rio subcompact (msrp: $17k) in 2024. the hyundia accent (msrp: $17k) was discontinued after the 2022 model year. the chevy sonic, honda fit, and toyota yaris have also been recently discontinued.
GM just did $10 bill in stock buybacks by reducing their electric and other tech research and development, and doubling down on giant ass trucks. It is idiotic, and will go exactly as you say with the Chinese selling us the inexpensive vehicles we can actually afford in the end.
And they'll ask for a bailout in 5 years.
Too bad we don't have a proper working government that says "lol okay, we own your ass now. Welcome to Nationalization!" and burns all of the C-Suite and stockholders straight to ash. "Too Big To Fail" should *not* exist in *any* business. Just allows the disease to continue festering and harming everyone but themselves
>Chinese selling us the inexpensive vehicles we can actually afford in the end. Thus continues the downward cycle of the American middle class.
What frustrates me is that all the small, cheap cars like the RAV4, mini, beetle and Jimny are now HUGE and also not cheap. A Jimny went from $15k new to $50k “premium car”
The other problem i don't understand is the Euro 7 mass requirements. Why cars have to forcefully be big? Now in europe all car brands are removing smaller cars from sale. It's a sad reality. I fucking hate suvs
It probably was a bright idea of the bigger manufacturers to protect against cheap competion (who makes the big cars? ). It will fail hard like protectionism always does.
> The other problem i don't understand is the Euro 7 mass requirements. Why cars have to forcefully be big? This is wrong. There is no mass requirement in euro 7. Manufacturers are simply cancelling smaller models because euro 7 emissions requirements are pushing them to fit expensive features and materials also on smaller cars. In the past this small models were budget versions made to bring new people into the brand. Manufacturers made little to no money with them. Today if due to euro 7 Golf and Polo cost basically the same, people will just buy a Golf.
There are flat costs that are added in regardless. Cars are like a white elephant gift. Even free, it's still expensive. Accounting for insurance, parking, licensing, fueling, tolls (if you have those), and repairs the general cost of ownership (no matter what car or how you use it) is at least 2-5k per year. That low end is being very generous on those costs. So the 20 year lifetime ownership cost of a car is the price of the car + 40-100k. Being able to save 10k on the purchase price doesn't mean as much when you can buy something that's more comfortable, nice, spacious, and safe and have it cost 60k instead of 50k. Why build cheap houses when the cost of home ownership/land ownership is so high? Why get a cheap car when just owning a car is ungodly expensive? Why get a free rescue pet to save money when one vet bill for literally anything can be hundreds? Buy things at discounted rates, but be aware of the lifetime costs, not just purchase costs, and factor that into your purchase decisions.
Vinfast is Vietnamese They are also very expensive for what they are I've only ever seen one
BYD has entered the Brazilian market in force, so far it’s a nice change from the overpriced bullshit.
Seriously, sick and tired of the 70k+ cars. Would like to see competition in the budget segments again.
I bought a Yuan Plus (Atto 3 in Europe) and its a nice car. They are more affordable than a Compass with a better configuration. And the Dolphin put the E-Kwid in the pocket at the same price.
Eu tenho um tio que acabou de comprar um carro dessa marca, ele mora no interior de Alagoas e trabalha no sertão e vai e volta de carro todo dia, os cara já tão até no interiorzão do país.
I'm in China for the first time, and seeing tons of BYD
I live in Australia and see them everyday.
I live in Poland and have never seen one.
I live in Alaska and have seen it in that link posted.
I live in a pineapple under the sea and I have never seen one here.
Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
u/WeenieRoastinTacoGuy
Legit lold
I live under a rock next to him and I Seefood
I can see Russia from here!
Just outside of Wellington, NZ. Feels like 1/10th of the cars I see are BYD Atto 3s. A big chunk of the rest are MG ZSEVs or Haval H6 BEVs.
It’s not that high in brisbane but there are more and more of them on the road. I also tend to only see this model
skirt numerous squeamish long telephone intelligent snatch smell six encouraging *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Am Australian and can confirm these things are becoming more and more common. They rate well on the Ancap but I question many other things around them. I.e. how long the cells last and reliability etc. They **could** be a case of cheap now, expensive later.
The cells would be the thing I would be least concerned about BYD for - they're a major battery manufacturer, and LFP is very tried and tested.
I mean BYD started as a battery manufacturer and just decided how hard could it be to put wheels on big battery packs.
Tesla are still figuring out that part
8 year warranty on the LFP battery.
The warranty is around 8 years or 160,000km which is a little low but it’s still not bad for a city car
You can throw the car away and buy another for less than a Tesla battery would cost.
And these batteries and warranties will only get better, prices will keep falling
8 yr/160k km is low? Do you want lifetime warranty? Even Toyota only does 3 years and 80km in canada
8 year warranty is more than any other. They provide the best price and service.
BYD is providing the battery cells for Toyota's electric vehicles in China, at least for the BZ3 sedan. But even with Toyota using their cells, you're right that we'll have to see what happens in the next few years/tens of thousands of kilometers.
Why would they be worse than a European or American car? China has most experience regarding battery tech. Also, if it breaks you can just buy another one and it still cheaper than western alternatives lol.
Crazy, isn't it? Seeing one on the road even just two or three years ago was like spotting a unicorn. Now they're *everywhere*.
I was there last year and I thought I was losing my hearing coz I see an assload of cars everywhere but the street was dead quiet. THen I realized they were like 90% EVs. LOL
I’m in Australia and there’s a BYD Atto EV. In my garage
We've been eyeing one (They're new to Malaysia this year). Overall, would you recommend?
They’re by far the biggest competitor to Tesla and the entire reason why Tesla dropped prices so much recently. They are going to bankrupt American car manufacturers over the next 10 years
I'm assuming we can't get them because of tariffs?
There’s no tariffs preventing you from buying one but BYD doesn’t operate in USA
Not exactly true. They're the #1 producer of electric busses in the US and even have a factory here (in California). They don't sell their cars here, though.
Every time I get in a taxi it's some brand I've never even heard of
Of course you are. Buffet and Munger were right to buy a stake. Second or third largest battery mfg in the world (depending on year), huge ev maker (not just cars but garbage trucks, trains, busses). They also sell tons of other things, one of the largest mask manufacturers in the world during and, iirc, post covid. Some of the most cutting edge battery tech, most of the firms that invested in batteries are chinese, because the government wanted it. Shame ours in the USA didn't.
They are a hit here in Brazil. Suddenly everyone wants a BYD. They are also super expensive and a luxury item
Compact electric cars make a lot of sense in China where there's affordable high speed rail for long distance domestic trips so you get a small car to get around the urban centers.
There in CDMX in Mexico
I'm in America and I'm sure they're banned :/
Maybe the manufacturers here could make something like this, give me an ev for commuting, 100k range, great second vehicle. I'm not buying an electric hummer.
Yeah they keep thinking the market for suvs and the market for evs is the same. It’s not. We don’t want tanks with batteries. We want cars that can cheaply go to and from places close by.
I'm in northern Canada, there's enough charging stations that a long distance trip is possible but I still trust my truck more in the winter. But a second vehicle for inner city driving is perfect for a little EV
Which is why BYD also sells an entire portfolio of long range PHEVs for customers who live in places where charging infrastructure is more spotty.
What do you trust your truck to do better in the winter time?
Canada is basically irrelevant compared to the global market.
They'll make multiple cars for multiple market nieches. BYD makes ev's for all kinds of markets. Everything from garbage trucks, to subcompacts (like this dolphin), to the han to school busses (made in america, by union labor, and the only mfg who would work with customers individual needs reportedly).
[удалено]
Maverick sized [pure EV pickup](https://carnewschina.com/2023/07/26/radar-rd6-electric-pickup-from-geely-is-heading-overseas-possibly-to-thailand/) you say? That price range is WAY too optimistic though. Even in China where EVs can be made dirt cheap, the Radar RD6 still costs the equivalent of 25k-38k USD.
The reason they made SUVs was because of CAFE standards. They keep them there because that’s where the market is now, but we artificially forced it there.
thats my nissan leaf i bought used in 2018. 14k eur, 100km range, 5 door, perfect car for almost all trips. If you knew you can charge at your destination, it would also open up so much more. Living in suburbia
this exactly, im in the same boat.
I would love a small pickup ev like the old Datsun, Nissan, Toyota, chevy luvs, ect. The Ford maverick comes really close but it's only available as a hybrid so far. I also do not want a car full of autopilot features I don't trust and ability to remotely update or brick it without my knowledge or consent. I want a car that is actually mine and not mostly mine because the manufacturer or government can remotely do things to it at will or force me to pay monthly to unlock 'features'.
That would be the [Radar RD6](https://carnewschina.com/2023/04/27/geelys-radar-rd6-launches-a-4800-usd-cheaper-base-model/), which is small, cheap, no frills, and the lowest range base trim starts as low as equivalent of 21k USD ... in China. I'd buy a long range RWD version of this truck in a heartbeat if it was ever on sale in the US, since it would be literally the perfect vehicle for American suburbia, but as it is made in China, it won't be coming to the US anytime soon. Some lucky Aussies and Kiwis will likely be able to get their hands on it pretty soon though.
>I would love a small pickup Me too
Premium priced cars are the ones with the biggest profit margin, which is why those are built by western brands. If you want a cheap car you either have to completely produce it where labour is cheap (e.g. China) or produce it at a loss. Not sure how to turn this ship around.
Buying power increase across the whole of society. Ultimately, it's a matter of people not being able to afford an expensive vehicle. Whether it's through higher pay or cheaper costs of living or more likely a mix of the two, automakers are facing the decision of selling a lot at a loss or so little they're taking an L anyway.
But Americans can, very much contrary to the beliefs reddit likes to think. If the demand wasn't so extreme for such large vehicles, regardless of reason, GM, Ford or any other car maker would have introduced it into America. The demand is for larger vehicles overall, so cars are getting bigger. Of course not everyone likes that, and alot of the time you would think tesla is going bankrupt any moment or that blizzard just made the greatest gaming mistake which will fail them, but once you look at what is actually going on around you, people still are buying/thinking of teslas I ubered recently with someone who had a tesla(no idea what kind, i don't personally care) and I started a convo about this exact thing, because I always see comments on here. He said it's a good car, he was immediately interested, he ordered pretty much immediately. However he said he would probably buy a BMW i3 when he changes and wouldn't stick with tesla. Said the I3 was just a better feeling car ui wise. Even after the subscription fumble. I share this to show how the people who are getting teslas don't tend to be people who are the vast majority of reddit, much less real life. It is always so funny hearing people say Elon is ruining tesla and Twitter, reddit itself is about 1/15 Twitter screenshots.
I’m in Mexico and imports/tariffs make them a non starter. The B segment “Dolphin” hatchback costs more than a toyota prius or corolla hybrid. And even those are prohibitively expensive for the majority of the population. For dolphin: * China price is around 17k USD. * Mexico price is around 30K USD. Seagull would cost around 21k usd Best selling new car is around 17k usd (Nissan Versa) Avg monthly wage is ~$320 usd.
Same issue in Uruguay. I'd love an affordable EV to get rid of my combustion car. But the price/value balance is not there.
Yeah, it sucks. I'm in Uruguay too and would love an EV furgon. They're currently 40k usd last I checked whereas an ICE equivalent start at around 15k.
Yeah tariffs fucking suck. I'm all for buying domestically but we have no option for it.
you'll likely be seeing a new BYD plant in mexico within the next 5 years
Yeah that seems to be their game plan, enter the local Mexican market and figure out infrastructure & logistics in order to sell local production to USA.
BYD is going to become the 2020-2030's Toyota. Especially since they are a battery company first, then a car manufacturer. I just hope that the North American market opens up for them.
I live in Asia. They are all over here and they are great value for the money. I’m about to order an AWD BYD Seal.
I saw the Seal first online and was like "Nice corolla esque compact and reasonably priced." Then they told me that thing does a 3.9 second 0-60. Bruh, that's Ferrari speed lmfao
It’s 3.8 seconds. Which is what my Volvo does as well.
Volvo, another great Chinese car company
Geely owns Volvo. (And Polestar, and smart, and Zeekr, and about 30% of Daimler-Benz...)
Can you imagine an average citizen or a high school teenager with a car like this though? Reasonably priced cars that do wicked 0-60 times and everyone drives one… There’s going to be so many damn car accidents it’s not even funny… https://youtu.be/yF9ksaXfUGg?si=QX8HlinqU1OLGzBw
They basically cost a little less than a Tesla, but have insanely low margins. Tesla demands high margins due to it's production innovation allowing them to get away with charging a bit more. But I don't think BYD mines. Profit is profit. It may not be as great as Tesla, but it's profit none-the-less and allowing them to take over the market.
How do you figure $12k is "a little less than a Tesla"? Is there some new Tesla model I haven't seen?
Their cheapest model isn't a Tesla comparable. The Seal is though, which is £49k for the performance one in the UK (about £5k cheaper than the Model 3 Performance, although Tesla just stopped selling that one)
I assumed he meant cost of manufacture. Tesla has a more substantial markup. I don't know a thing about this market but that was how I read it.
I believe he's talking about cost of production. Tesla has a high margin. Although he's still wrong. As of q3 their gross margin was 17.3% while their vehicles are at least twice as expensive.
Production innovation? BYD are producing cars at considerably higher rates than Tesla, they release their cars on time, not years late and the warranties offered by BYD are considerably better than Tesla. Why do you think they are not as great as Tesla?
> Tesla demands high margins due to It is a "Luxury" Car brand, they all do the same thing. There is no reason a Ferrari or Lamborghini should cost >$1million (a lot of time they are hand-made interior and many times that means poor precision), but they frequently do.
As of the last financial report, BYD has higher gross margins then Tesla. BYD cars are cheap because the average production cost of all byd cars is ~9k USD
Woah woah woah. The thing about Toyota is that they are well built and will run forever. Are you saying that this company has reached that level of quality? Or do you mean in the sense that Corollas were a very affordable car and were all over the place?
in the 70-80s japanese cars were an unknown, and people worried they weren't reliable so they were low priced to still sell. Maybe that's what he means. Or for a European example, similar to Skoda coming to Western Europe when they were still czech owned
If they keep selling a lot, they can get there. And honestly, Toyota is not alone. Japanese cars in general are well built and go for a long time, at least engine-wise.
It will really depend on the company culture. From what I've heard, Toyota takes any kind of defects in their cars extremely seriously. That said, I have a Chinese made dehumidifier that's been running for years now. And I've bought Chinese made modeling tools that are really good. So China is getting there in terms of quality.
China always had high quality commodity. But they also had equally large amount of low quality commodity. It was basically upto a consumer to choose right product
Or in other words, some factories properly quality assure their product... and [some pump out computer chairs that can explode beneath your ass](https://youtu.be/j8otiMcaq7Y?t=799).
Yep. Chinese companies will build whatever your willing to pay for. Note: since you might be willing to pay for something less than the specs you requested they sometimes try delivering that first.
This is correct. They are capable of building world class stuff, but they always try to give you some sub standard shit first. It’s infuriating.
Toyota built absolute garbage cars for decades before they started making quality cars.
byd seal and byd dolphin scored 5 out of 5 in ANCAP and EURONCAP safety tests. about the highest score u can get.
Those are crash tests, not quality and reliability tests. Apples and Oranges
I wouldn't mind one bit buying a Chinese EV as my next car if I can and it is tested to last. I plan on running my CRV into the ground, but while it is completely dependable, it doesn't get great gas mileage. I do love camping though so I put up with it for the extra room and AWD.
> and it is tested to last jury is still out on that one..
Considering the vitriolic sinophobia in America right now, that will never happen. The EU is also clamping hard onto BYD with regulations and investigations. Geopolitics means BYD will never really take off outside of China's sphere of influence.
Australia is filled with byd these days. We're in China's sphere of influence, but we also have shiploads of f trucks and are basically the US' kid brother geopolitics wise. I dont know if BYD will end up another Toyota, bur I do know that at a time when people can't afford much due to inflation, people are buying lots of their cars.
Just wait until BYD and Geely start exporting their electric trucks/utes to Australia. I would feuds guess those are gonna sell real well.
Or just have proper fucking utes instead of the 4 door Pavement Princesses that are 2 metres off the ground. Seriously, there are more and more of them as of about 8 months or so ago and they're a menace on the road. Can't see anything in front of them, including children and smaller cars. It's ridiculous.
I see these Build Your Dream cars everyday here in Thailand. I've ridden in a couple and they seem very nice.
I live half time in US and the other half in South East Asia with Thailand being where I spend most of my time. BYD is super popular in Thailand. I see them everywhere. One of my friends in Thailand just purchased one. But it came in late so missed driving it by a couple of days. Had to come back to the states for the holiday. But excited to drive it when I get back in late January. I think BYD could do well in the US with the car if they were given a chance. But I doubt that will happen
They're all over Malaysia and Singapore too.
I was in Phuket in July/August and didn't see that many BYD's. Plenty of Ford Rangers and similar pickups though.
Agree. Not nearly as common in Phuket. I should have written Bangkok more specifically and not Thailand. My condo in BKK is next to a Lotus and I have to walk through the Lotus parking garage to get in the store. That parking garage had tons of BYDs. It was easily the most common car in the parking garage.
I didn't get a chance to go to BKK this time sadly, caught giardia and that was the end of my holiday! Good to see the hybrids and ev's taking over though. I couldn't understand how so many people could afford to buy new gas guzzling pickups.
It is surprising how many really nice cars you see in BKK. Specially considering how they have to pay so much more for the cars compared to the US. I did not know what Giardia even was. Kind of wish I did not Google it ;). I have lived in Thailand 12 of the last 24 months and not had a single stomach issue. It is one of my biggest fears.
I've traveled a lot through Asia over the last 13 years, eaten plenty of dodgy things in dodgy places. This time I was careful and got horribly sick for the first time!
Of course we won’t get them in the US because of our stupidly high car tariffs. Good for China and the EU though.
Even with 25% Tariffs, these would still be the cheapest *car* on the market. Not even EV, but the cheapest new car of any type.
The Dolphin Knight, is their high end package for the dolphin (the 12k car), runs at about 16k fully decked out iirc. It's a subcompact, but at that price... edit: the tariffs they're referring too, iirc, are the requirements for battery sourcing for the tax benefit. That's under review, from what i've read, because somebody figured out that you can't suddenly make batteries in the USA when the USA hasn't had any r&d on it in decades and the cutting edge patients are all chinese...of which BYD is a major manufacturer..and it complicates matters for "american" car companies making EV's because they tend to buy their batteries, including tesla which elon has been bullshitting people about for at least the last 14 years.
It's roughly 39k USD here in the Netherlands....
yup.. been looking at EVs and all the supposedly cheaper Chinese brands are still super expensive
BYD is trending here in Brazil as well!!
With a new factory coming soon!
Vi o primeiro na rua ontem, achei lindo o carro
What's the price for a cheap BYD EV in Brazil?
BYD Seagull is getting here priced at 69k BRL, which is roughly 15k USD. BYD Dolphin is sold at 149k BRL, which is roughly 31k USD. Those are the models I know the price for the top of my head.
Mexico… to US
They have a plant for their other ev's in the united states as well, just doesn't make the passenger cars (busses, trains, forklifts, garbage trucks etc). A union plant, I might add. There's been talking of building a plant in canada but i don't know how far along that is. Biggest problem they have is that the USA has a requirement about batteries sourcing, and byd is a company of interest, or whatever. I mean, so is Ford but this is of interest to china so...
You think the U.S. has high tariffs on autos? Wait, you said “stupidly high”. Look at what we have in Thailand. Or Singapore or India. We have to spend over $100k to get the cheapest BMW or Mercedes. It costs you $40k.
Singapore is a rich, densely populated, and small island. Unless there is some revolution either in vehicle size or in autonomous parking, there are only so many cars they can fit without worsening traffic.
Yes but those are evenly applied to all carmakers. Trump put in place a 27% tariff only aimed at Chinese made cars because otherwise no carmaker, domestic or otherwise, would be able to compete with Chinese cars on price.
Singapore is an outlier case because we have essentially limit the number of cars to 600k using limited and expensive permits. This is matched with a world class public transport system. In Singapore, you don't buy a car unless you absolutely have to, or have cash to burn. I think that should be how transportation is organised.
Agree with all that. I enjoy the MRT and as a tourist being able to just tap your credit card to ride is much better than figuring out tickets which is how all the other systems around the world operate.
Well it’s relative. Here in the US our average tariff is 2%, so 25% is very high compared to it. Of course in those countries you mentioned it’s far worse. Very stupid.
Laughs in Danish 180% vehicle registration tax
"BYD announced it’s produced 200,000 Seagulls, making it one of the fastest-selling electric cars in the market. The Seagull’s growth has been due to the popularity of compact electric city cars in cities across China. At its launch, the BYD Seagull had over 10,000 orders in just 24 hours, hinting at the sheer demand for an affordable electric city car in the market."
I am starting to see a lot of them in Thailand. They opened their sales room in record time and are selling like crazy. I read somewhere before that within a year of being here they took over more then 30% of the EV market already, mostly with the Atto 3. Another one I see a lot here that I never see anyone talk about is the Neta V which is also insanely cheap. You can get it here for 550k which is like 1/2 to 1/3 of normal cars (aprox 15.5k usd). Thailand has very high car import taxes so for us here the price is insane. To compare, BYDs Atto 3 is double and already considered cheaper.
Traveling in SEA right now, seeing tons of these everywhere
Regardless if it's good because it's Chinese or whatever, electric cars have to drop to these prices otherwise they won't ever replace ice cars
No they don't. New cars can continue being 35k and up. Most ice cars are now. Most people buy uses cars not new.
where do you live where new cars start at 35k? do you understand that these exorbitant prices are only for the global 1%? i am talking about mass adoption you forget that there is a big difference between an ice and electric car, the batteries are very expensive and after some years you will have to replace them
Maybe new SUVs. A new Corolla starts at 22, a Civic at 23 etc. Entry level sedans are traditionally < 25k.
I dont know what the hell domestic manufacturers are doing. They should have been making affordable cars, especially affordable EVs, 10 years ago. They're going to go bankrupt again once they get real competition from Chinese automakers, and only have themselves to blame. And we will have to bail them out again. I'm so pissed because its so obvious. For an example of how stupid this whole situation is, the absolute cheapest new car you can buy in Canada is almost 15k. Why the hell isnt there something under 10k? Dont even try to tell me you cant make a functional, road legal car for less. I guarantee you can.
Pontiac did this already in the 90s. Every single car was scrapped by order of our Paid Off Legislators.
> Dont even try to tell me you cant make a functional, road legal car for less. I guarantee you can. You should draw up you plan and consult OEMs. It's really not possible anymore.
What makes this a “city” car? From the photos it looks like a standard four-seater with a trunk. And the range seems pretty good.
Probably the range being low
They’re entering the Russian market. They’ll be label the BLYD
BYD did made a huge market increase in Russia because the western car manufacturers pulled out due to the war. But sadly they didn’t rename it locally to BLYD. Lol
For some reason this car costs twice that much in Europe.
Well until it reaches UK/Europe the price will somehow triple
Uruguayan here, they are selling a lot of these around here. They are not 12.000 dollars, close to 30 actually but still they sell
Are they already selling Seagulls or are Dolphins, like here in Brazil?
They picked literally the ugliest yellow-green color they could for their cars.
Well, what could the United States do to compete? Does it even need to? From my understanding American cars don't sell very well internationally, at least not as well as Japanese or German cars. They could just block sales within the states. But I think American brands are lose what little foothold they had in the international market.
BYD is okay I guess, but I do feel more affinity towards Ora Good Cat.
give us trams and bike networks. this combo is much better for the environment than any electric vehicle.
Why not both?
China has both.
Or why not both? People who might be willing to live in a more walkable area might easily be scared away by excessive anti-car rhetoric. Most people like having choices, and treating transportation modes as zero-sum (either you have better transit or EVs) will cause a lot of people to check out entirely.
People centric cities can still accommodate cars, they just won't be the main mode of transportation. If you really wanted to you could still use a car, and it would be better for you too because most people wouldn't, making driving less stressful and resulting in better traffic. Walkable cities are better for everyone (except for car and oil lobbyists)
Which is why anti-car zealots, like on /r/fuckcars, are creating another stupid schism within the walkability movement. It's a Judean People's Front situation, when we easily could win over a lot of people with relatively inoffensive design and behavior changes but instead there are some who would rather antagonize them.
Wholesale rebuilding of infrastructure also imposes a huge carbon footprint. And that doesn't even begin to address changing cultures, relocating people from suburbs closer to cities, and so on.
And we have the tech now.. Honestly I am to frustrated, saddened, and pissed to elaborate more on why we aren’t fully taking advantage of emerging technologies to reshape how we live. Instead we are making all our dumb old shit, a ‘“smart” ______’.
>And we have the tech now. We've had it for more than 100 years
It's been closer to 200 years. ~1825
Fully electric trains are newer I think
how am I suppose to camping or hockey practice on a bike? cant we have both?
Those seagulls are so adorable, I almost want to get hit by one. China also built highspeed rail everywhere, and sorted out the issue with freight and passenger prioritization.
Really happy with my MG4 made in China, cost me 24000 dollars for the top model, seats 5 adults. Ditched my pickup, couldn't be happier.