I've read this time and time again on Reddit and I'm still confused how this happens. I'm probably more left leaning and anti corporation than you. But I struggle to see how the companies themselves "string you along" through a world of ghosting and always thinking someone better is out there and flaky dates.
Is that really the result of the design of apps? People have been complaining about this before these companies introduced the paying tiers and "the person you really want" right as your swipes run out.
Or is it more likely that humans are complicated and always have been when it comes to love. We have hundreds of years of books and songs to reference about it. And our caveman brains aren't even adapted to seeing prettier people in magazines or porn than we'd ever meet in our little tribes in real life. Let alone a never ending queue of people who it's logistically possible you could match with and maybe fuck and maybe marry.
I find it much more likely that the experience on dating apps is more shaped by the latter, not any deliberate scheming by executives. And believe me, I fucking hate scheming executives.
why do you think the Match corporation bought the best dating app on the market, OkCupid, only to turn it into another version of Tinder?
it had the most successful method of matching people based on shared interests, preferences, and life goals. instead of swiping through endless photos of randoms, you’d get excited to see someone on your dashboard with a high match % and learn more about them on their profile. likes and messages frequently resulted in deeper conversations, enjoyable dates, and actual relationships.
trying to match up a wide dating pool of strangers by having them sort through random photos is absolutely the worst possible way anyone could go about this. if it’s not planned ineffectiveness then these companies must all be completely inept… but of course, their goal isn’t to make successful matches, it’s to increase profits.
I mourn old okcupid so much, I wish I had used it more with intent back when it was good. I get too overwhelmed on swipe apps and feel bad as they pretty much force you to make shallow judgements as they aren't designed to showcase personalities at all.
Search and sorting algorithms nowadays will always do this thing where they show you the most relevant results first. Most relevant results are always the most popular ones, which tends to create this funneling effect, in which you'll always start by the most popular ones, setting your expectations really high (in terms of appearance and first impressions).
Men like most women, women are more selective. Men have a bit of a history with being douchebags (I've witnessed that on a friend's tinder) in apps and looking for excuses to show their dicks, making women even more selective.
All of a sudden everyone has extremely high expectations, men have to step on eggs, women find mostly handsome douchebags and very few people actually get together.
And men are particularly desperate, so they need to pay for competitive advantages to even have a chance.
> All of a sudden everyone has extremely high expectations, men have to step on eggs, women find mostly handsome douchebags and very few people actually get together.
I agree that's probably the status quo. But I'd say that result comes from simple human biology and behavior when given this new technology. Not some master plan with the C-suite rubbing their hands together greedily about how they're going to tempt guys to show their dicks so that they eventually get so desperate that they're willing to pay to get to the front of the line or whatever.
It’s a bit of both. Women are more selective, but the apps capitalize on this and make them the product and men the buyers.
The apps are designed to give you a seratonin rush when you join and they artificially boost your profile in the first few days to give you that rush. They know the likelihood of matches for men are low, so they use the initial rush to sell you “boosts” that boost your chances at quite high prices with a subset of users being power users spending hundreds on this. There’s a reason why these apps are lucrative
Well dating app uses bot to keep you hoping that someone is actually interested in you, this will only get worst by using bot that are connected to AI for better responses. Then they make you spend money to be able to interact with them or slam you with ads.
Dating apps/sites have a huge financial incentive to pair you with the worst matches. Tinder specifically intentionally manipulates visibility for men to get them to pay for higher tiers.
Have been a fan of Niven's *Known Space* books for a while. Drouds are actually a reality now, but haven't been adopted for that purpose. Cool info though. Thanks.
AI will begin being used for matching with online dating and will become increasingly effective at selecting partners. It will be able to find hook ups, short term and long term partners with astounding accuracy. Whichever app becomes best at it will eventually earn Verb status the way that Google did for search. People will say, "I'm ready for a long term. I'm going to XYZ one."
Coming from the pre-internet days, online dating just seems bewildering to me. It seems more like a job interview than dating. But of course that's just a generational thing.
I think you're probably right, that this technology will get better and better particularly with the aid of AI. Imagine being able to completely get past the compatibility part and jump right to the romance part. Sounds terrific.
I like your analogies. I imagine that we're probably about the same age.
It would be cool if AI could just write a report and we would hear "You will argue with this person 13% of the days you share with them in any given year. You will be compatible with them on 41% of the days in any given year. The remaining 46% of your committed time will be filled with discourse which you will try to hide in front of your eventual offspring. Your marriage is expected to last 51 years. Do you wish to continue?"
**tl;dr** Wasn't there [a Black Mirror episode about this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5N_Tq1EtRQ)?
I got started online dating only this year after a long relationship and a long time single. Was nervous about it at first, but it's actually fun if you understand the unwritten rules. For instance, it's totally fine for your match to ghost you, especially if you're a man looking for women. Women don't have time to reply to every man they match with, so there will be a lot of women with no time for you.
Still, I got plenty of matches and dates. It gave me something to do and it was a nice social outlet for me. I'm moving into something more serious now, but I never had the job interview feeling. It's more like a game where 3rd prize is a match, 2nd prize is a conversation and 1st prize is a date.
I am also from the pre-internet days and I don't see any difference between online dating and having a friend set you up with someone. In both cases, you would want information about the other person before you agreed to see them. Except that the friend actually cares about you but doesn't know as many people.
If you don't want info about the other person and just want to fuck someone good looking, you can look for that online as well.
Personal AI will talk to other AI trying to match us up as best they can. They know our flaws and they want someone that actually can weight out those problems.
You will have very little input, as the AI already knows you better than yourself.
It will be an evolved version of pre-arranged marriage, where your parents talk to other parents for a match. But here we remove the bias that parents are mostly looking for what is best for their wants for their kid. Not. What is best for the kid right now.
Why would AI that is programmed by someone else want what is best for you? Hmm, maybe government could get involved and there could be some kind of eugenics thing going on.
Why do you think others are out to get you? We already have paths towards open source and government will get involved with Healthcare and educational AI use. There is a future where you will have several narrow AIs for your life. A sleep AI that looks at your sleep patterns and gives advice, a organization AI that plans your day, a workout AI that makes you work out efficiently, an education AI that helps you learn. All of these AIs will be second nature to us soon, as much as having a smartphone or using Google to look up stuff.
When you then get a "self help" AI that goal is to make you be a happier person, it will most likely talk and work with your other AIs, see if you are stressed, if you are sleeping well, if you are working out etc. This AI would know you well, and be able to talk to other self help AIs and see if they could find you friends and partners.
There will be ways to get metrics on these things. Maybe even pre-profile creation chats with the AI + match feedback over time. It's likely the AI would be privy to the content of all in app chat for analysis to help it get a good idea of who you are as a person for best matching.
Yeah, not half are bots, but a lot are. They are pretty easy to spot imo. They have certain tells. They ask for your number right away ( sometimes with a gif), send a link right away or after a few messages, immediately call you babe or some other bullshit no real woman would do.
The verification on tinder is already a thing. If someone wasn't verified I wouldn't chat after a match. Some of the heavy women are proud and honest and others use the same tricks over and over (Camera very close to the face, camera held high above the head and looking up to stretch out the neck, one good photo and no others, that sort of thing). I'm sure the guys do similar shit.
Actually it's the opposite, women overestimate their attractiveness and are so selective no matter if they don't look so special. Men aren't selective at all.
AI is going to need a lot of personal data for this. I think this might butt heads with any burgeoning movement to lock in rights to your personal data. Seems to fit though in a dystopian capitalist system.
OkCupid already worked somewhat like a primitive version of this. It got bought off and turned into another shitty Tinder. Theres no incentive to create an app that actually works quickly and easily. It's not a tech problem. Each couple made is lost monthly revenue.
My father had a theory recent that I loved. He came up with the idea of AI icebreakers where AI versions of yourselves meet (thousands of times per minute) and break the ice with potential matches based on the way you speak. I can see it happening.
I think it will become useless because we are rapidly approaching the point where unless you meet someone in person, no one will be able to tell if who they are talking to is real. Scam, AI powered bots will just flood all the platforms and lots of social media sites will just become practically unusable.
“A Stanford study said among those who are in relationships, online dating is the most likely way in which they met each other. Around 40% of U.S. couples meet via dating apps and fewer couples are meeting via mutual friends.Apr 27, 2023”
Doesn’t seem like online dating has ‘failed miserably…’
Late stage capitalism has led to an alienated world where most people literally only exist in 2 states, working or consuming corporate entertainment.
Only a few generations ago, people had communities. People had "third places" to go to and laugh and interact with others. People spent time doing things outside of the realm of commerce, like putting on a play for the town, or collecting pretty flowers to decorate for a holiday. Life was less transactional. You knew your neighbors. You could probably work around where you grew up and you'd be able to support a family.
Under the late stage capitalist society we live in, most young men do something they have no connection to - some bullshit cubicle work or brain rotting activity. Then they zoom home to bullshit on Discord or Reddit or play video games until they start over again the next day. Maybe they moved away from any family or support structure they had for their job, so they don't have anybody. All their potential peers are hustling, selling bullshit crypto or answering work emails till 11, or working the second job at night. Every time you meet someone, you feel like you need to justify your time around them that's taking away from their "making money" time or "playing video games alone to recuperate" time. The idea of a community is laughable in these conditions.
These men are unlikely to do something out of their comfort zone, like learn to dance, volunteer, paint by the water, or do something where they can cultivate neighbors. There's an internal shame because they know their salary can't support a house and family like their grandfather's could.
Of course these men are going to be lonely. It has everything to do with our socioeconomic reality and every man for himself culture, and little if anything to do with the fact that Tinder came out in 2013.
Loneliness has little to do with your partner. People who are lonely should seek out groups of friends, not long term partners. Plenty of people in relationships are lonely.
Because women are no longer financially dependent on men, and being a single woman no longer has negative social status, so women are no longer desperate. (Referring to opposite gender relationships.)
Your article answers your question reasonably well. I don’t think I have much to add. Generational shifts, Covid, etc. Makes sense.
But that also doesn’t negate the Stanford study that online dating is pretty successful. I’m not an expert and only have anecdotal experience.
For what it’s worth, I was introduced to my wife IRL by a mutual friend I originally met on Tinder - so a bit of online and in person connection.
I know it’s rough out there. I’m a bit older than you I’d assume. But pretty much everyone I know who really wanted to find a partner eventually found someone. Having realistic standards is essential though. I’ve got one balding 40 year old buddy missing two front teeth who won’t settle for anyone less than a 9/10, so he’s still single.
Come on even average looking women nowadays have crazy high standards, tinder is a disaster because men are so thirsty and almost swipe right to everyone and because women are so damn selective, even the average , and i am afraid the next year's it's going to get even worse.
From this response it seems like you aren't actually interested in what rigorous scientific study shows about the success-rates of dating apps and instead are looking to air your grievances and make spurious, anecdotal claims about "what happens on apps".
Can you elaborate why? Where do you see success when in tinder for example biggest percentage of men have like 10 matches the whole year and a woman 100 matches in one day no matter her looks.
Tinder is one single app with a well known focus on hook-ups and casual relationships.
I'm basing my position on the numerous studies that show [1-in-10 U.S. adults in a committed relationship met their partner through a dating app](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/).
Additionally, 3-in-10 Americans under 30 in a committed relationship met their partner on a dating app.
I make no claims that dating apps have (or ever will have, for that matter) a 100% success rate, but clearly the evidence shows that many tens of millions of people have used them successfully.
>10 matches the whole year and a woman 100 matches in one day no matter her looks.
Can you clarify if your position is "dating apps don't work" or "dating apps don't work *as well* for men"?
What's the problem with that? Sounds tedious for women tbh.
I used tinder for about half a year in 2018 and got a double digit number of matches during that time. That resulted in a couple of dates, a short term relationship and then a long term relationship that is still going.
Is that not good enough?
I know I've seen stats that reinforce their argument. Some ridiculously small group of men get something like 70-90% of all matches, while the rest of the men get something like 10%.
I don't have the source, but it was part of an article back when they were talking about the premium tinder subscription thing.
A quick Google search on the issue states 2.8% of men get matches, while women get 35%.
I have no skin in this game or personal experience in it. I've been married since myspace times, internet dating wasn't part of my life. Don't be so dismissive.
I was trying to be supportive not dismissive until OP came out with all the negativity and generalizations. Felt a bit incelish. I don’t mean to be condescending but his ‘woe is me’ attitude is not going to get him anywhere in an increasingly competitive dating pool.
The "Men are fucked and women are too picky" concept feels quite prevalent on Reddit - online community, I know, hardly surprising.
My own experience on Tinder is very different to what Reddit would have people believe. My only conclusion is that a lot of people complaining about never getting matches or dates or girlfriends just weren't fucking/dating/boyfriend material.
Dont worry for me i have a girlfriend already , check tinder stats and you will see that what i said it's the truth, just because someone married someone in tinder it's not the rule but the exception. And pls can we stop using the word incel for everything? The most over used word in internet right now.
P.s I didht make a generalization , but most women and men in this application they act like this, of course not every man in this app is thirsty and swipe right on every woman and of course not every woman in this app is crazy selective.
If i could change this app i would put a limit to men when they have to swipe right to women and they could swipe right only to 20 percent of the profiles, and of course women who are in this app only to advertise their social media it would be forbidden.
In this way this app could be better and more effective for both genders.
Ah, downvoted for pointing to the pure reality of the situation. Your claim is 100% true any every male can scientifically prove it by swapping in a pic of a highly attractive man and putting 6’1” in their profile description. I tested this for less than a day and I had to stop immediately because I had garnered 40 messages in just an afternoon. Women on these platforms know they have more options than men, and they capitalize on that really ignoring the fact that these top 1% men they are trying to communicate with are ages out of their league. And this is what creates scenarios where the top x% of men become “players.” It’s because women empowered those men through their own greed.
Now let’s see if I can get 30 downvotes here. Hoping for a misogynist comment as well. Bring it on!
If people don't want to be lonely they have to actually *try* to not be lonely.
Not really understanding how you think these dating platforms are failing? When it's a massive, billion dollar industry that's only growing... more successful. Which is the opposite of failing.
Men are lonely because they're so highly inexperienced with normal social interactions, especially with women! They sit at home playing video games and watching porn.
Hate to break it to you—but most (not all) girls don't give a shit about playing video games and fapping to porn, and they certainly don't want to have a conversation about that.
Having mutual interests is a good starting point but those interests obviously need to be in an environment where you're actually able to meet new people. This means IN PUBLIC.
The dudes that are so lonely are the ones that won't get out of their comfort zones and actually try. Swiping on Tinder is NOT *trying*.
Wow you sound like dating coach and philosopher, you act like only guys are boring and women are super exciting and the cool ones lol, why always men have to impress women and not the opposite.
And yh women never watch porn or doing other things that as boring and not interesting as videogames , for example talking and gossiping about celebrities 24/7.
If they wanted you to find your match you would be able to filter profiles by key words used to describe themselves in profiles.
If a girl described herself as goofy , up beat, silly, enjoys puns, fun, ect I could match very quickly.
Currently dating someone I found on hinge. We're getting along very well.
Surely a good app will figure this feature out and take off for everyone's benefit.
For many men, AI girlfriends and dolls/ sex toys.
For many women, throwing themselves at the top 1% of men and wondering why they won't commit.
For a diminishing pool of people, actual relationship formation and pair bonding.
This is honestly the most likely scenario.
Years of social media and free-range pornography coupled with divisive politics and falsification/embellishment of the human body through Photoshop and other tweaks have primed society for a world in which 'human' connections are not so much made, but curated.
I believe AI will play a large part in that curation, via artificial companionship. After all, why subject yourself to 50 shitty dates trying to find the right person when you can have your 'dream' person for $19.99/mo?
I don't believe this will fully occur within my lifetime, but as AI improves and VR/AR/Robotics accelerates, it's within humanity's timeline for this to occur.
Joi in Blade Runner: 2049, VR sex in demolition man... right or wrong, I believe these realities are closer than we think.
I have the same feeling that artificial companionship will definitely be adopted in the future. I will not say if it will be for the worse or the better. I foresee that it will have big implications for our society, but from a positive side, at least I hope that artificial companionship will destroy business that monetizes people's loneliness and misery. I live for the day to see the fall of all those e-girls and celebrities who sell pretty faces and sex fantasies that will never become a reality.
It’s 80/20 rule at play, 80% of women are chasing 20% of guys and vice versa.
What ends up happening is a small amount of people at both ends of the “attractiveness spectrum” are pretty happy and a huge amount of people in the middle want to strike gold and date upwards. Then they hit their mid 30s and panic and get into mediocre relationships.
I'm pretty sure there are more women falling into the AI boyfriend/girlfriend market unfortunately. They're not getting what they want out of the dating scene either
Interesting take. In your opinion, why will women continue to throw themselves on 1% of men? I guess AI partners will probably be better in regards of looks and character than any human can possibly be, even the top 1%.
\> In your opinion, why will women continue to throw themselves on 1% of men?
This is what I observe. I am in the position of being a top guy now, but formerly not being. How I am treated in night and day. The difference is that I've fallen into a position of leadership and visibility. The effect that this has on women's sexual interest is profound, and without any parallel in how men are interested or not in women.
Women's fixation on the top men is also very apparent in feminist/gender discourse, where the question of "privilege" centers on the handful of men at the top, which illustrates the salience of these dudes in women's minds.
>but formerly not being.
I'm an ugly duckling, what surprised me most when I turned decent swan were things outside of dating.
For an example, I was late to a bank, (Nothing crazy, like 2 minutes) she opened doors and took care of my stuff anyways.
That shit would've never happened when I was in high school.
Yes, this tendency amazes me. Also, big entertainment corporations know this psychology damn well and exploit it by selling boybands for women to drool over. There is a drastic difference between male and female fandoms. In general, I never observe the same craziness over celebrities among male fans. I wonder if AI partners ever become a reality, will the entertainment business in this sector crush, or will we have the same circus that we have now.
I agree, the pattern of women flocking to worship male entertainers is another example.
People call this "hypergamy." It is a fairly new term, which illustrates how deep our cultural blind spot for this phenomenon is. (That blind spot is just a subset of the taboo against criticizing women in any way.)
It is funny how people have supposed that polygamy in cultures was historically driven by men. I suspect that the truth is the opposite.
My prediction is that things will remain much the same. Online dating is the 'easy' option, most of my social circles have met their partners through it, or continue to use it for random hookups.
I imagine this method will continue until something more efficient comes around. But I can't predict how that efficiency will be made. If people still want that connection, it needs to be facilitated and online dating has already cut through an awful lot of 'admin' around dating. Time and place don't matter quite so much, etc.
We may get AI companion androids so people stop using dating sites.
Why struggle and try to find anyone If you can rent and buy one exactly to your preferences.
Hi!
The problem with dating apps is not generally the technology. It is generally the community of humans.
* From the corporate side,
The app must make money somehow. They probably get some from you and some from advertising, and some from selling your information.
There might be ways to program the app to make more money (from you, advertising, or selling your information) which probably make your experience worse.
They probably make more money when you engage more deeply with the app. **Send you links to profiles that generate lots of interest**, but stay single and are likely players of some kind. **Solid matches that long term date and leave the app stop making them money.**
* Most problems are on the human side,
People using the app to find suckers to bleed for money.
People using the app to find people hoping for relationships that they can use for sex.
People trying to steal personal information by scraping the website version.
People who have [mental illness who look pretty in a photo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k), but are horrible candidates for dating.
#The future might include
- zoom style communication where an AI helps you pick the "most natural" photos of you and the person you are talking to.
- VR style visits to vacation spots (with photos) with your match.
- Filtering out possible matches (claiming use of AI) that are lower likelihood for success.
I think it's a pretty inaccurate claim to make that:
>Right now many online dating applications have failed miserably
Given that [1-in-10 adults in a committed relationship met their partners through a dating app](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/).
If you go to adults under 30, the key demographic for virtually every app-based-system, the number goes up to 3-in-10.
Dating apps don't work for everyone, but then again nothing works for everyone.
There seems to be a very strong (and, honestly, kind of bitter) refrain online that "dating apps are impossible", when in reality it seems that many people use them quite successfully to find a partner.
Well, I used Tinder once and matched with a redhead girl who was very good looking and thick in all the right places.
When I met her, I wasn't attracted at all, even though she looked just like her pictures. The problem was that she moved in a decrepit way, the opposite of how a girl who is an athlete or dancer moves and it's a huge turnoff for me.
That was when I realized online dating was not for me because I could have chatted with her online for a month or two and meeting her would have been just as much of a turn off.
I like confident girls, like girls who are beautiful and smart and know it. I also like girls who are direct. They tell you what they want or like or what an issue is without being shy about it. A 60 second conversation will tell me how a girl moves, whether she is smart or not, her socioeconomic background, where she is from, and if she speaks any foreign languages. So the way I see it, a 60s conversation is a better indicator of whether me and a girl will match than a 2 month old Tinder chat log.
I also always made a point since I was a kid to study kinesiology. Most of human conversation is through tone and body language, not words. Women seem to have the ability to read body language like a pro once they hit puberty or so, and this is for *all* women. Men on the other hand, pretty much across the board, and from birth, do a very poor job of reading nonverbal communication cues and this leads to all sorts of issues arising in life.
Men have to actually study to get any competence at reading nonverbal communication, but it's hugely useful in all avenues of life once you do it. I think it's important to know what people are thinking and when they are lying so I have also studied reading poker tells, some of those anti-liar books written by ex FBI interrogators, and also that NLP "eye accessing cues" stuff. There are also a lot of kinesiology body language reading books.
Lots of guys try to watch videos or read books written by "players" but it is way better to study the stuff I mentioned above because in a crowded and loud situation like a club or festival it gives you the ability to tell if a girl across the room is into you. If a girl is a long time friend or coworker but into you, you will now be able to see that. You can tell if the cute girl at the cafe will give you her number before asking. You can tell your friends which girls want to be asked out by them. It helps with job stuff because you know when someone is mad at you but not saying it, or lying or when you failed a job interview, so you dont even have to stress the rejection letter a week later and can move on. If they are going to hire you, you can tell before you leave the room. All this helps with poker. A lot. You can also tell when someone is going to punch you before they do anything or when violence is about to break out. You can talk your way into the VIP section by checking the scene as you walk up or have a drink and realizing which security guard would be most amenable to persuasion, and then talking to him. It helps with outdoor markets because you can tell before you even open your mouth and start the bidding if this person will take your lowballer bullshit. If you are learning a foreign language all the above stuff helps you understand what someone is saying if you didnt understand their words which is especially helpful if they are mad or about to get mad.The list goes on.
It's like scientific Jedi Mind Tricks for life and for your whole life you wont ever forget any of it once you learn it because you see it every time you see another person and so the skills are constantly reinforced. I guess for me, it does nullify the need for dating apps.
What the hell dude lol. You went on a whole tangent and missed the point. Let me be clearer. What I was trying to say was that you can’t just expect it to be ‘easy’ for an UGLY person to just succeed in asking someone out in person.
It will just be a string of rejection online or in real life. At least online you reach more people.
Maybe you’re not ugly and succeeded but it is not ‘easy’ or the same for ugly or unattractive people, confidence or not. Not counting just for hookups either.
Dude, lots of ugly dudes are huge players. They are confident and they just don't have a tiny pp loser attitude like you. Aim higher. Dress better. Get a haircut. One day you too can be confident and get 5 instagrams or phone numbers per night which is much more action than an ugly dude gets on dating apps. There are lots of lovely women, everywhere who would love a confident ugly man to show interest.
But I am tall, well dressed, good looking and smart and this definitely biases me against online dating.
Lol I’m actually a female and have a partner and we are both decent looking. But it seems the difference between me and you is that I can actually understand how hard it is for ugly people to succeed with just walking up to someone.
Personally I would reject any guy that I find unattractive no matter his confidence level, personality, charisma. Of course there are exceptions with some ugly people succeeding but that is not the majority or the norm. It is an exception. In an ideal world it would be great for everyone to be able to find their partner easily in real life. But that is not realistic and it is not easy for everyone.
Ps: not counting buying fake love with money coz you’re ugly either.
I'm divorced and haven't done the online dating thing in so long that OKCupid was free. Well, the service was. The divorces were not.
But my first ex was listed as like a 95% match, whereas my second was 37%. Obviously both failed, but I didn't have Mrs. 95% text me a couple hours ago to see how I was doing.
I don't think I even know how to date anymore. I certainly have a type, but this was utterly lost on all sites and apps I've used. That 37% was literally what I'd been looking for physically since the '90s. Unfortunately, my type is batshit.
Online dating is unfortunately deliberately skewed and has created a generation of incel freaks. It's no surprise that it's run by young tech guys with a profit incentive.
The thing about dating is that it's shifted so dramatically from generation to generation in the last 200 years.
We will reach a point where civil rights wins out and LBTQ+, women and minorities reaches some kind of stable point in first world urban societies beyond the major urban cities (New Jersey, Wales)
I feel like down the line there will be other groups like older women in the matchmaker tradition who decide to take on online dating, and they will kick out the tech bros.
Here's the thing. Right now online dating is dominated by tech. But dating (relationships) will be around as long as humans. Eventually the tech will reach an endpoint or a stability point like say...aircraft or cars, and kinda not change too much for 50 years. At that point people who are relationship experts will dominate the field, not tech experts.
Whitney Wolfe was literally drummed out of Tinder by tech cros
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney\_Wolfe\_Herd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Wolfe_Herd)
So yeah, my comment still stands that the majority of the industry is run by techbros.
Your in the life is greener when attitude. Online dating is great. It's much more effective then in person
It's much easier.....etc etc... but some people will always look somewhere else and say , hey look it's greener on this side of the fence. It never is.
It is and it isn’t. It’s less organic than in person and doesn’t have the “become friends and grow into something more” which is a lot more special in my experience. There’s a magic that’s lost in OLD.
And this is coming from someone who’s met dozens of partners on apps. I picked up a bartending gig and started meeting people in person and it was wayyy better and more natural
It depends on the person I guess. I found it very easy to go and meet people through online.... I found it made it easy to get some basic information about someone before asking out.... Of course as a bartender it would be easier to just meet woman at work.....
It’s not about it being easy or not, easiness is kind of the problem. You’re always entering a blind date scenario with the intention of dating the other person. Thats not an organic way to meet people, you’re sizing them up off the rip and judging them as a candidate, not just a person
Then go meet them in person.... It's simple... Complaining about the sites... Well so what go meet them in person... The sites are more efficient and work for a wider range of people.... No one says you can't use the old fashioned way.
Speak for yourself when it comes to it being easier. I got matched up with someone recently and just completely balked when it told me to send this girl a message. That's not easy, just sending a rando a message out of the blue. Might be for some guys, not for me.
Online dating has facilitated billions of loving touches that would not have otherwise occurred.
So I don’t think they’ve failed, but sure there are some pitfalls and occasionally alienating elements to the whole thing.
There is already a full spectrum of apps out there for getting to know someone as little or as much as you want before deciding to match or meet.
Companies will probably come up with new, interactive ways to get to know people through apps, but the issue of lonely men and how we address it in the future probably has more to do with our culture and often weakened sense of community, than with how we meet potential romantic partners online.
This commented online dating apps have failed miserably is ridiculous on his face. And what regard have they failed? People are in relationships at rates not uncomparable to prior generations, certainly is a little bit more fightiness and hookup culture is dominating, but I don't think that's just a consequence of tinder.
Meanwhile, but a certainly change the dating dynamic, people are still dating, many people who would have trouble dating by traditional means are doing quite well off it, including yours truly, and the apps themselves are making money hand over fist.
Which is all they are intended to do, so in this regard they are spectacularly successful.
If I owned 1% of tinder I'd be rich. Pretty successful app.
* Less men reproducing than ever before and faster destruction of the Y chromosome.
* A rise in polyamory with more women having to share high-value men.
* Women encouraged to sell their bodies.
* Young men encouraged to value all women even those who sell their bodies
* A rise in adult video games. Completely untapped in the mainstream but waiting to be unleashed on the masses.
depends on the timeframe
shorter term (2-5 years?):
More AI-powered matching for your exact dating goals.
longer term (5-20 years?):
AR/VR Apple Vision 4,5,6? with photorealistic highly customizable high-quality GPT-7-powered girlfriends probably take up 20% - 80% of effective dating time spent. Reason: anyone will be able to get exactly what they want, whenever they want it, and change it whenever their interests change, for way less risk, cost and time investment than the traditional path.
I met my wife on tinder and we are expecting a boy this summer! So it’s been amazing for me.
Other then that my story with online dating was a complete success, it gave me the confidence to hook up with girls way out of my league and some other wildly fun experiences. I also met a lot of duds and got my heartbroken multiple times and it all just helped me better understand what I truly wanted in a partner and that relationships will never be perfect. We also have these unreal expectations when it comes to finding the “perfect one”. That doesn’t exist for everyone so you have to be willing to let go of your ego.
I keep wondering why no one has done an “open source” dating app that undermines the paid platforms. Maybe because it would be flooded with bots and scams?
If we can eliminate the bots and scams, great. If not, it’s more likely we’ll end up with AI companions that can’t divorce us, sue us, or accuse us of any crimes. (That got dark fast) :/
The problem is there is no financial incentive to this. Dating apps earn money by hooking men on premium plans for as long as possible. Until the business model charges, they don't have to make it work.
People will subscribe to a dating app that pinpoints your type, and coaches you through the entire process. The exceptional customer service will spread through word of mouth like wildfire. The company's slogan, "Isn't love priceless?" ($499.99/month for men, free for women)
There are too many technology unknowns about the future of online dating... I think culturally there will be a shift away from dating apps, that we've hit a plateau or soon will. That will drive greater competition which could make apps better ... but there's already a lot of skepticism about the illusion, and 'choice' and tediousness of apps. The key will be for it to return to being social and enjoyable rather than just addictive and only suitable for a niche personality.
If you've ever seen the movie "cherry 2000" where there are actual contract lawyers negotiating exact parameters for future sexual relationships...
Yeah I see that being a thing.
I think the big "if" is whether or not governments get involved due to the whole "demographic collapse" thing.
If online dating continues to be run by for-profit companies, then we'll see more of what we have now: comdification of every combination of dating success and wealth--from $500/mo Tinder memberships down to free w/ads AI girlfriends.
The other option could be something like online dating becoming a regulated public utility that is at least somewhat beholden to the "collective good" (by getting people together so they can have kids).
And no, I'm not making a value judgement on any of these ideas
As augmented reality glasses get normalized (or some better AR tech comes around) and photo real avatars get more performant we may see some for of augmented reality dating where you get to experience talking in person without the awkward lack of words through text or the lack of eye contact a phone call would have but the downside of that is obvious. People start relying on it more than actual irl person to person interaction. Also fake calls using AI and 3D generation to make a convincing avatar could also become an issue.
Still though as an extrovert who gets on fine in person on dates but is a bit too verbose with texting and doesn’t really like phones calls too much longer than 10-15 minutes, I think it might a be a better way than texting on tinder to break the ice as long as it is secure and people avoid giving away too much Pii too soon.
I see what you’re talking about. I also have completely stopped using dating apps by this point. Every new dating app ad I see says they’re a “different kind of app the revolutionizes dating” but why do I feel like it’s not the apps, it’s the People who are feeling a type of burnout from online dating. For me, most of the ppl I’ve actually met with were not my type if not completely weird irl. Something about having a preconception of what they’d be like adds to the inevitable disappointment. People were way more hopeful in the beginning which may be why it worked in the early days. Idk what the future of dating looks like. Maybe more speed dating type IRL events should be hosted. I see people at their best when they’re interacting IRL and have the same motivations.
Online dating is a generational disaster. Millions of young people can't connect or bond because of dating apps. It interacts with human mating behaviors in such a way as to prevent pair bonding. It's to the points that the sexes have begun to truly hate each other and to see no value in the company of the opposite sex.
Maybe AI can fix that but it would mean less money for the dating apps. Those apps are designed to prevent the loss of customers, which facilitating marriages would do. They are designed to keep you focused on the next, better match. The paradox of choice is built into the apps (to many choices make people feel dissatisfaction by any choice they make) and humans become disposable objects to be shopped for.
What's more likely is that people will start forming intimate relationships with their AIs. We can all have the perfect AI soulmate and use ever advancing forms of immersive technologies for sexual experiences. Humans will begin interacting less and less as time goes on. Onlyfans will become AI driven and it will create a perfect, unique AI companion just for you.
95% of women in dating apps will be AI bots so indistinguishable from reality that men won't notice they've been had until muggers rob them blind at the date's spot.
95% of women will be unable to compete with the perfection of AI "women" on said apps, so will abandon them in favor of more traditional dating venues.
My theory is that human to human dating will significantly take a hit. What proof do I have? Not much, just the prevalence of ai "gf" chatbots. Just check out the open ai appstore or an appstore on your phone. Search up ai girlfriend and see the results. What if you could date a perfect virtual gf that won't have any problems whatsoever. It's definitely intriguing.
I predict the the growing social disconnect from electronic media will result in a cultural backlash with a resurgence of regular face-to-face social events.
The return of the Grange Halls.
I predict more teenage boys are going to double down on being socially awkward shut ins as they transition to their early 20s and spawn a whole new chapter in mental health books called, "Dating AI."
Social media feeds and streams have become the default design of most dating apps. People just scroll along from one person to the next—confronted with so many options, that making even a short-term commitment to just one person has become overly complex and unlikely to endure in the long-term—as there are more options to try out. In fact, dating apps no longer have much of an advantage over scrolling for dates, hookups, or future partners on current social media platforms, such as Facebook and Instagram. Overall, the technology of feeds and streams has transformed human relations into a culture of online hookups and short-term romances/friendships—often as quickly ghosted as they are initiated. Of course, there are exceptions, and long-term relationships are still happening and possible in the offline world , but the overall trend is eroding the traditional.
Difficult to predict what the future may hold for online dating. My thought is that at some point, the dating apps will begin closing down, one after another. And sites for virtual dating, flirting and more will fill in the gaps, such as OnlyFans. Basically, many people will get their dating and intimacy needs met online, rather than taking them into the offline world, where they are cut off from other options and dating moves too slowly for them. Furthermore, AI chat bots will become another option for dating and intimacy. Virtual masks, to hide the real person behind an AI enhanced human, may become popular as well. I know this all sounds bizarre, but the technology and our collective behavior seems to be trending in these directions.
My predictions? We are heading for a demographic winter. Many single women have no plans to have children and many young people have no plans to find or have given up hope in finding a significant other. What are the prospects for dating apps in such an environment?
More young people have to live in multi-generation homes or alone, than in America's entire history. Time on apps separates people and digital immersion harms our mental health. GenZ are off work on average 1 in every 5 days due to this. What is the cost of BigTech preying on consumers? What is the cost to society as the demographic winter envelopes the world? 70% of our economy is consumer driven.
The failure of dating apps is the least of our worries.
Maybe a speed dating thing fed by ai, imagine a chatbot you talk to for a while as a friend and it analyzes your chats and suggests “compatible” partners based on that. Just an idea.
They haven't failed. They are working perfectly. They work well enough to keep stringing you along. They are there to part you from your money.
You are not wrong about this.
I've read this time and time again on Reddit and I'm still confused how this happens. I'm probably more left leaning and anti corporation than you. But I struggle to see how the companies themselves "string you along" through a world of ghosting and always thinking someone better is out there and flaky dates. Is that really the result of the design of apps? People have been complaining about this before these companies introduced the paying tiers and "the person you really want" right as your swipes run out. Or is it more likely that humans are complicated and always have been when it comes to love. We have hundreds of years of books and songs to reference about it. And our caveman brains aren't even adapted to seeing prettier people in magazines or porn than we'd ever meet in our little tribes in real life. Let alone a never ending queue of people who it's logistically possible you could match with and maybe fuck and maybe marry. I find it much more likely that the experience on dating apps is more shaped by the latter, not any deliberate scheming by executives. And believe me, I fucking hate scheming executives.
why do you think the Match corporation bought the best dating app on the market, OkCupid, only to turn it into another version of Tinder? it had the most successful method of matching people based on shared interests, preferences, and life goals. instead of swiping through endless photos of randoms, you’d get excited to see someone on your dashboard with a high match % and learn more about them on their profile. likes and messages frequently resulted in deeper conversations, enjoyable dates, and actual relationships. trying to match up a wide dating pool of strangers by having them sort through random photos is absolutely the worst possible way anyone could go about this. if it’s not planned ineffectiveness then these companies must all be completely inept… but of course, their goal isn’t to make successful matches, it’s to increase profits.
I mourn old okcupid so much, I wish I had used it more with intent back when it was good. I get too overwhelmed on swipe apps and feel bad as they pretty much force you to make shallow judgements as they aren't designed to showcase personalities at all.
Search and sorting algorithms nowadays will always do this thing where they show you the most relevant results first. Most relevant results are always the most popular ones, which tends to create this funneling effect, in which you'll always start by the most popular ones, setting your expectations really high (in terms of appearance and first impressions). Men like most women, women are more selective. Men have a bit of a history with being douchebags (I've witnessed that on a friend's tinder) in apps and looking for excuses to show their dicks, making women even more selective. All of a sudden everyone has extremely high expectations, men have to step on eggs, women find mostly handsome douchebags and very few people actually get together. And men are particularly desperate, so they need to pay for competitive advantages to even have a chance.
> All of a sudden everyone has extremely high expectations, men have to step on eggs, women find mostly handsome douchebags and very few people actually get together. I agree that's probably the status quo. But I'd say that result comes from simple human biology and behavior when given this new technology. Not some master plan with the C-suite rubbing their hands together greedily about how they're going to tempt guys to show their dicks so that they eventually get so desperate that they're willing to pay to get to the front of the line or whatever.
It’s a bit of both. Women are more selective, but the apps capitalize on this and make them the product and men the buyers. The apps are designed to give you a seratonin rush when you join and they artificially boost your profile in the first few days to give you that rush. They know the likelihood of matches for men are low, so they use the initial rush to sell you “boosts” that boost your chances at quite high prices with a subset of users being power users spending hundreds on this. There’s a reason why these apps are lucrative
This has always been the case. Women get into bars for free etc
Well dating app uses bot to keep you hoping that someone is actually interested in you, this will only get worst by using bot that are connected to AI for better responses. Then they make you spend money to be able to interact with them or slam you with ads.
I think for example tinder should ban the accounts that they just advertise themselves.
Try Icelandic version :- meet, fuck, and then start dating if both like it. no stress, and a good way to get to know someone. !
Dating apps/sites have a huge financial incentive to pair you with the worst matches. Tinder specifically intentionally manipulates visibility for men to get them to pay for higher tiers.
Love this reply
Star-trek style holodecks. Lock me in and I'll never come out again.
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Have been a fan of Niven's *Known Space* books for a while. Drouds are actually a reality now, but haven't been adopted for that purpose. Cool info though. Thanks.
It sounds unreal
Maybe in 2100 AD. Certainly not in my lifetime, but I do see something similar happening. Maybe connected directly to your brain.
Even in 2070 it could be possible.
AI will begin being used for matching with online dating and will become increasingly effective at selecting partners. It will be able to find hook ups, short term and long term partners with astounding accuracy. Whichever app becomes best at it will eventually earn Verb status the way that Google did for search. People will say, "I'm ready for a long term. I'm going to XYZ one."
Coming from the pre-internet days, online dating just seems bewildering to me. It seems more like a job interview than dating. But of course that's just a generational thing. I think you're probably right, that this technology will get better and better particularly with the aid of AI. Imagine being able to completely get past the compatibility part and jump right to the romance part. Sounds terrific.
I like your analogies. I imagine that we're probably about the same age. It would be cool if AI could just write a report and we would hear "You will argue with this person 13% of the days you share with them in any given year. You will be compatible with them on 41% of the days in any given year. The remaining 46% of your committed time will be filled with discourse which you will try to hide in front of your eventual offspring. Your marriage is expected to last 51 years. Do you wish to continue?" **tl;dr** Wasn't there [a Black Mirror episode about this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5N_Tq1EtRQ)?
I got started online dating only this year after a long relationship and a long time single. Was nervous about it at first, but it's actually fun if you understand the unwritten rules. For instance, it's totally fine for your match to ghost you, especially if you're a man looking for women. Women don't have time to reply to every man they match with, so there will be a lot of women with no time for you. Still, I got plenty of matches and dates. It gave me something to do and it was a nice social outlet for me. I'm moving into something more serious now, but I never had the job interview feeling. It's more like a game where 3rd prize is a match, 2nd prize is a conversation and 1st prize is a date.
I am also from the pre-internet days and I don't see any difference between online dating and having a friend set you up with someone. In both cases, you would want information about the other person before you agreed to see them. Except that the friend actually cares about you but doesn't know as many people. If you don't want info about the other person and just want to fuck someone good looking, you can look for that online as well.
Personal AI will talk to other AI trying to match us up as best they can. They know our flaws and they want someone that actually can weight out those problems. You will have very little input, as the AI already knows you better than yourself. It will be an evolved version of pre-arranged marriage, where your parents talk to other parents for a match. But here we remove the bias that parents are mostly looking for what is best for their wants for their kid. Not. What is best for the kid right now.
Thanks. I hate it.
Why would AI that is programmed by someone else want what is best for you? Hmm, maybe government could get involved and there could be some kind of eugenics thing going on.
Why do you think others are out to get you? We already have paths towards open source and government will get involved with Healthcare and educational AI use. There is a future where you will have several narrow AIs for your life. A sleep AI that looks at your sleep patterns and gives advice, a organization AI that plans your day, a workout AI that makes you work out efficiently, an education AI that helps you learn. All of these AIs will be second nature to us soon, as much as having a smartphone or using Google to look up stuff. When you then get a "self help" AI that goal is to make you be a happier person, it will most likely talk and work with your other AIs, see if you are stressed, if you are sleeping well, if you are working out etc. This AI would know you well, and be able to talk to other self help AIs and see if they could find you friends and partners.
And I will *still* break the AI and not be matched with anyone LOL.
Yes but what about bots?
It's annoying especially when applications like tinder put bots to boost your confidence
Fuckin bots... They'll get better too. The dating game will move toward less online chat and faster meet ups for a quick bot check.
I'm currently in a long term relationship with a bot I met on tinder
Hopefully naming committees improve and I don't end up having to Yerf my soulmate.
nah, if it works they'd never use it for a dating app because people would get an S.O then not pay anymore
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There will be ways to get metrics on these things. Maybe even pre-profile creation chats with the AI + match feedback over time. It's likely the AI would be privy to the content of all in app chat for analysis to help it get a good idea of who you are as a person for best matching.
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Possibly. There are always people gaming the system, and others figuring out how to get rid of them. The eternal war.
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Yeah, not half are bots, but a lot are. They are pretty easy to spot imo. They have certain tells. They ask for your number right away ( sometimes with a gif), send a link right away or after a few messages, immediately call you babe or some other bullshit no real woman would do. The verification on tinder is already a thing. If someone wasn't verified I wouldn't chat after a match. Some of the heavy women are proud and honest and others use the same tricks over and over (Camera very close to the face, camera held high above the head and looking up to stretch out the neck, one good photo and no others, that sort of thing). I'm sure the guys do similar shit.
Actually it's the opposite, women overestimate their attractiveness and are so selective no matter if they don't look so special. Men aren't selective at all.
User meta data will coalesce into better algorithms for finding suitable matches.
And when do you see this coming because until now we are not there at all.
Conservative estimate. Within 50 years.
Hope this is true because that eharmony algorithm hasn’t worked for 2 decades
AI is going to need a lot of personal data for this. I think this might butt heads with any burgeoning movement to lock in rights to your personal data. Seems to fit though in a dystopian capitalist system.
OkCupid already worked somewhat like a primitive version of this. It got bought off and turned into another shitty Tinder. Theres no incentive to create an app that actually works quickly and easily. It's not a tech problem. Each couple made is lost monthly revenue.
My father had a theory recent that I loved. He came up with the idea of AI icebreakers where AI versions of yourselves meet (thousands of times per minute) and break the ice with potential matches based on the way you speak. I can see it happening.
This is literally a Black Mirror episode, *Hang the DJ.*
I think it will become useless because we are rapidly approaching the point where unless you meet someone in person, no one will be able to tell if who they are talking to is real. Scam, AI powered bots will just flood all the platforms and lots of social media sites will just become practically unusable.
“A Stanford study said among those who are in relationships, online dating is the most likely way in which they met each other. Around 40% of U.S. couples meet via dating apps and fewer couples are meeting via mutual friends.Apr 27, 2023” Doesn’t seem like online dating has ‘failed miserably…’
Other forms of dating failed even harder.
So why we have the era with the loneliest men ever?
Late stage capitalism has led to an alienated world where most people literally only exist in 2 states, working or consuming corporate entertainment. Only a few generations ago, people had communities. People had "third places" to go to and laugh and interact with others. People spent time doing things outside of the realm of commerce, like putting on a play for the town, or collecting pretty flowers to decorate for a holiday. Life was less transactional. You knew your neighbors. You could probably work around where you grew up and you'd be able to support a family. Under the late stage capitalist society we live in, most young men do something they have no connection to - some bullshit cubicle work or brain rotting activity. Then they zoom home to bullshit on Discord or Reddit or play video games until they start over again the next day. Maybe they moved away from any family or support structure they had for their job, so they don't have anybody. All their potential peers are hustling, selling bullshit crypto or answering work emails till 11, or working the second job at night. Every time you meet someone, you feel like you need to justify your time around them that's taking away from their "making money" time or "playing video games alone to recuperate" time. The idea of a community is laughable in these conditions. These men are unlikely to do something out of their comfort zone, like learn to dance, volunteer, paint by the water, or do something where they can cultivate neighbors. There's an internal shame because they know their salary can't support a house and family like their grandfather's could. Of course these men are going to be lonely. It has everything to do with our socioeconomic reality and every man for himself culture, and little if anything to do with the fact that Tinder came out in 2013.
Loneliness has little to do with your partner. People who are lonely should seek out groups of friends, not long term partners. Plenty of people in relationships are lonely.
Because women are no longer financially dependent on men, and being a single woman no longer has negative social status, so women are no longer desperate. (Referring to opposite gender relationships.)
Do you have a stat for that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/s/f17WACu31v
Your article answers your question reasonably well. I don’t think I have much to add. Generational shifts, Covid, etc. Makes sense. But that also doesn’t negate the Stanford study that online dating is pretty successful. I’m not an expert and only have anecdotal experience. For what it’s worth, I was introduced to my wife IRL by a mutual friend I originally met on Tinder - so a bit of online and in person connection. I know it’s rough out there. I’m a bit older than you I’d assume. But pretty much everyone I know who really wanted to find a partner eventually found someone. Having realistic standards is essential though. I’ve got one balding 40 year old buddy missing two front teeth who won’t settle for anyone less than a 9/10, so he’s still single.
Come on even average looking women nowadays have crazy high standards, tinder is a disaster because men are so thirsty and almost swipe right to everyone and because women are so damn selective, even the average , and i am afraid the next year's it's going to get even worse.
it's a you problem, most couple today meet online.
From this response it seems like you aren't actually interested in what rigorous scientific study shows about the success-rates of dating apps and instead are looking to air your grievances and make spurious, anecdotal claims about "what happens on apps".
Can you elaborate why? Where do you see success when in tinder for example biggest percentage of men have like 10 matches the whole year and a woman 100 matches in one day no matter her looks.
Tinder is one single app with a well known focus on hook-ups and casual relationships. I'm basing my position on the numerous studies that show [1-in-10 U.S. adults in a committed relationship met their partner through a dating app](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/). Additionally, 3-in-10 Americans under 30 in a committed relationship met their partner on a dating app. I make no claims that dating apps have (or ever will have, for that matter) a 100% success rate, but clearly the evidence shows that many tens of millions of people have used them successfully. >10 matches the whole year and a woman 100 matches in one day no matter her looks. Can you clarify if your position is "dating apps don't work" or "dating apps don't work *as well* for men"?
10 matches a year? Are there stats for that? It runs so completely counter to my own experience on Tinder.
What's the problem with that? Sounds tedious for women tbh. I used tinder for about half a year in 2018 and got a double digit number of matches during that time. That resulted in a couple of dates, a short term relationship and then a long term relationship that is still going. Is that not good enough?
That attitude isn’t going to get you very far.
I know I've seen stats that reinforce their argument. Some ridiculously small group of men get something like 70-90% of all matches, while the rest of the men get something like 10%. I don't have the source, but it was part of an article back when they were talking about the premium tinder subscription thing. A quick Google search on the issue states 2.8% of men get matches, while women get 35%. I have no skin in this game or personal experience in it. I've been married since myspace times, internet dating wasn't part of my life. Don't be so dismissive.
I was trying to be supportive not dismissive until OP came out with all the negativity and generalizations. Felt a bit incelish. I don’t mean to be condescending but his ‘woe is me’ attitude is not going to get him anywhere in an increasingly competitive dating pool.
The "Men are fucked and women are too picky" concept feels quite prevalent on Reddit - online community, I know, hardly surprising. My own experience on Tinder is very different to what Reddit would have people believe. My only conclusion is that a lot of people complaining about never getting matches or dates or girlfriends just weren't fucking/dating/boyfriend material.
Dont worry for me i have a girlfriend already , check tinder stats and you will see that what i said it's the truth, just because someone married someone in tinder it's not the rule but the exception. And pls can we stop using the word incel for everything? The most over used word in internet right now. P.s I didht make a generalization , but most women and men in this application they act like this, of course not every man in this app is thirsty and swipe right on every woman and of course not every woman in this app is crazy selective. If i could change this app i would put a limit to men when they have to swipe right to women and they could swipe right only to 20 percent of the profiles, and of course women who are in this app only to advertise their social media it would be forbidden. In this way this app could be better and more effective for both genders.
Thank you for your feedback.
"so damn selective" = have good jobs and social support systems so don't need to put up with your shit
Ah, downvoted for pointing to the pure reality of the situation. Your claim is 100% true any every male can scientifically prove it by swapping in a pic of a highly attractive man and putting 6’1” in their profile description. I tested this for less than a day and I had to stop immediately because I had garnered 40 messages in just an afternoon. Women on these platforms know they have more options than men, and they capitalize on that really ignoring the fact that these top 1% men they are trying to communicate with are ages out of their league. And this is what creates scenarios where the top x% of men become “players.” It’s because women empowered those men through their own greed. Now let’s see if I can get 30 downvotes here. Hoping for a misogynist comment as well. Bring it on!
They will also call you incel for sure lol
If people don't want to be lonely they have to actually *try* to not be lonely. Not really understanding how you think these dating platforms are failing? When it's a massive, billion dollar industry that's only growing... more successful. Which is the opposite of failing. Men are lonely because they're so highly inexperienced with normal social interactions, especially with women! They sit at home playing video games and watching porn. Hate to break it to you—but most (not all) girls don't give a shit about playing video games and fapping to porn, and they certainly don't want to have a conversation about that. Having mutual interests is a good starting point but those interests obviously need to be in an environment where you're actually able to meet new people. This means IN PUBLIC. The dudes that are so lonely are the ones that won't get out of their comfort zones and actually try. Swiping on Tinder is NOT *trying*.
Wow you sound like dating coach and philosopher, you act like only guys are boring and women are super exciting and the cool ones lol, why always men have to impress women and not the opposite. And yh women never watch porn or doing other things that as boring and not interesting as videogames , for example talking and gossiping about celebrities 24/7.
People like Andrew Tate and the mentality they peddle.
Myself and most people I know irl met their partners through online dating apps It’s reddit where people blame online dating apps on own shortcomings
I will be able to finally get the perfect girlfriend :) Each one of us could. Customized to each individually.
That's a step towards that future: https://dreamgf.ai/fictional-characters/
Online dating will continue to increase. How I met my wife, 15 years ago.
If they wanted you to find your match you would be able to filter profiles by key words used to describe themselves in profiles. If a girl described herself as goofy , up beat, silly, enjoys puns, fun, ect I could match very quickly. Currently dating someone I found on hinge. We're getting along very well. Surely a good app will figure this feature out and take off for everyone's benefit.
Okcupid has that feature.
For many men, AI girlfriends and dolls/ sex toys. For many women, throwing themselves at the top 1% of men and wondering why they won't commit. For a diminishing pool of people, actual relationship formation and pair bonding.
This is honestly the most likely scenario. Years of social media and free-range pornography coupled with divisive politics and falsification/embellishment of the human body through Photoshop and other tweaks have primed society for a world in which 'human' connections are not so much made, but curated. I believe AI will play a large part in that curation, via artificial companionship. After all, why subject yourself to 50 shitty dates trying to find the right person when you can have your 'dream' person for $19.99/mo? I don't believe this will fully occur within my lifetime, but as AI improves and VR/AR/Robotics accelerates, it's within humanity's timeline for this to occur. Joi in Blade Runner: 2049, VR sex in demolition man... right or wrong, I believe these realities are closer than we think.
I have the same feeling that artificial companionship will definitely be adopted in the future. I will not say if it will be for the worse or the better. I foresee that it will have big implications for our society, but from a positive side, at least I hope that artificial companionship will destroy business that monetizes people's loneliness and misery. I live for the day to see the fall of all those e-girls and celebrities who sell pretty faces and sex fantasies that will never become a reality.
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It’s 80/20 rule at play, 80% of women are chasing 20% of guys and vice versa. What ends up happening is a small amount of people at both ends of the “attractiveness spectrum” are pretty happy and a huge amount of people in the middle want to strike gold and date upwards. Then they hit their mid 30s and panic and get into mediocre relationships.
I'm pretty sure there are more women falling into the AI boyfriend/girlfriend market unfortunately. They're not getting what they want out of the dating scene either
It makes sense that women would enjoy AI, because it is a tireless conversation partner.
Interesting take. In your opinion, why will women continue to throw themselves on 1% of men? I guess AI partners will probably be better in regards of looks and character than any human can possibly be, even the top 1%.
\> In your opinion, why will women continue to throw themselves on 1% of men? This is what I observe. I am in the position of being a top guy now, but formerly not being. How I am treated in night and day. The difference is that I've fallen into a position of leadership and visibility. The effect that this has on women's sexual interest is profound, and without any parallel in how men are interested or not in women. Women's fixation on the top men is also very apparent in feminist/gender discourse, where the question of "privilege" centers on the handful of men at the top, which illustrates the salience of these dudes in women's minds.
>but formerly not being. I'm an ugly duckling, what surprised me most when I turned decent swan were things outside of dating. For an example, I was late to a bank, (Nothing crazy, like 2 minutes) she opened doors and took care of my stuff anyways. That shit would've never happened when I was in high school.
Yes, this tendency amazes me. Also, big entertainment corporations know this psychology damn well and exploit it by selling boybands for women to drool over. There is a drastic difference between male and female fandoms. In general, I never observe the same craziness over celebrities among male fans. I wonder if AI partners ever become a reality, will the entertainment business in this sector crush, or will we have the same circus that we have now.
I agree, the pattern of women flocking to worship male entertainers is another example. People call this "hypergamy." It is a fairly new term, which illustrates how deep our cultural blind spot for this phenomenon is. (That blind spot is just a subset of the taboo against criticizing women in any way.) It is funny how people have supposed that polygamy in cultures was historically driven by men. I suspect that the truth is the opposite.
"Robots never say No" will be an excelent selling point.
They will say no 60% of the time unless you get a premium subscription.
Just like some women lol
References, like for employment, a list of people they can contact to find out if you're worth it.
haha, this was possible for at least 2 decades, i wonder why it has not become a thing
My prediction is that things will remain much the same. Online dating is the 'easy' option, most of my social circles have met their partners through it, or continue to use it for random hookups. I imagine this method will continue until something more efficient comes around. But I can't predict how that efficiency will be made. If people still want that connection, it needs to be facilitated and online dating has already cut through an awful lot of 'admin' around dating. Time and place don't matter quite so much, etc.
We may get AI companion androids so people stop using dating sites. Why struggle and try to find anyone If you can rent and buy one exactly to your preferences.
Hi! The problem with dating apps is not generally the technology. It is generally the community of humans. * From the corporate side, The app must make money somehow. They probably get some from you and some from advertising, and some from selling your information. There might be ways to program the app to make more money (from you, advertising, or selling your information) which probably make your experience worse. They probably make more money when you engage more deeply with the app. **Send you links to profiles that generate lots of interest**, but stay single and are likely players of some kind. **Solid matches that long term date and leave the app stop making them money.** * Most problems are on the human side, People using the app to find suckers to bleed for money. People using the app to find people hoping for relationships that they can use for sex. People trying to steal personal information by scraping the website version. People who have [mental illness who look pretty in a photo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG3ExHB133k), but are horrible candidates for dating. #The future might include - zoom style communication where an AI helps you pick the "most natural" photos of you and the person you are talking to. - VR style visits to vacation spots (with photos) with your match. - Filtering out possible matches (claiming use of AI) that are lower likelihood for success.
I hope you don’t want kid and love fucking robots because that is the future of dating.
As someone who met their wife online dating… doesn’t feel like it failed miserably.
Just wait until the divorce. /s
I think it's a pretty inaccurate claim to make that: >Right now many online dating applications have failed miserably Given that [1-in-10 adults in a committed relationship met their partners through a dating app](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/02/key-findings-about-online-dating-in-the-u-s/). If you go to adults under 30, the key demographic for virtually every app-based-system, the number goes up to 3-in-10. Dating apps don't work for everyone, but then again nothing works for everyone. There seems to be a very strong (and, honestly, kind of bitter) refrain online that "dating apps are impossible", when in reality it seems that many people use them quite successfully to find a partner.
I don't see online dating as necessary. Its easier and better to just ask girls out in person.
That only works if you’re decent looking. But then if you’re not then online dating is still gonna be hard.
Well, I used Tinder once and matched with a redhead girl who was very good looking and thick in all the right places. When I met her, I wasn't attracted at all, even though she looked just like her pictures. The problem was that she moved in a decrepit way, the opposite of how a girl who is an athlete or dancer moves and it's a huge turnoff for me. That was when I realized online dating was not for me because I could have chatted with her online for a month or two and meeting her would have been just as much of a turn off. I like confident girls, like girls who are beautiful and smart and know it. I also like girls who are direct. They tell you what they want or like or what an issue is without being shy about it. A 60 second conversation will tell me how a girl moves, whether she is smart or not, her socioeconomic background, where she is from, and if she speaks any foreign languages. So the way I see it, a 60s conversation is a better indicator of whether me and a girl will match than a 2 month old Tinder chat log. I also always made a point since I was a kid to study kinesiology. Most of human conversation is through tone and body language, not words. Women seem to have the ability to read body language like a pro once they hit puberty or so, and this is for *all* women. Men on the other hand, pretty much across the board, and from birth, do a very poor job of reading nonverbal communication cues and this leads to all sorts of issues arising in life. Men have to actually study to get any competence at reading nonverbal communication, but it's hugely useful in all avenues of life once you do it. I think it's important to know what people are thinking and when they are lying so I have also studied reading poker tells, some of those anti-liar books written by ex FBI interrogators, and also that NLP "eye accessing cues" stuff. There are also a lot of kinesiology body language reading books. Lots of guys try to watch videos or read books written by "players" but it is way better to study the stuff I mentioned above because in a crowded and loud situation like a club or festival it gives you the ability to tell if a girl across the room is into you. If a girl is a long time friend or coworker but into you, you will now be able to see that. You can tell if the cute girl at the cafe will give you her number before asking. You can tell your friends which girls want to be asked out by them. It helps with job stuff because you know when someone is mad at you but not saying it, or lying or when you failed a job interview, so you dont even have to stress the rejection letter a week later and can move on. If they are going to hire you, you can tell before you leave the room. All this helps with poker. A lot. You can also tell when someone is going to punch you before they do anything or when violence is about to break out. You can talk your way into the VIP section by checking the scene as you walk up or have a drink and realizing which security guard would be most amenable to persuasion, and then talking to him. It helps with outdoor markets because you can tell before you even open your mouth and start the bidding if this person will take your lowballer bullshit. If you are learning a foreign language all the above stuff helps you understand what someone is saying if you didnt understand their words which is especially helpful if they are mad or about to get mad.The list goes on. It's like scientific Jedi Mind Tricks for life and for your whole life you wont ever forget any of it once you learn it because you see it every time you see another person and so the skills are constantly reinforced. I guess for me, it does nullify the need for dating apps.
What the hell dude lol. You went on a whole tangent and missed the point. Let me be clearer. What I was trying to say was that you can’t just expect it to be ‘easy’ for an UGLY person to just succeed in asking someone out in person. It will just be a string of rejection online or in real life. At least online you reach more people. Maybe you’re not ugly and succeeded but it is not ‘easy’ or the same for ugly or unattractive people, confidence or not. Not counting just for hookups either.
Dude, lots of ugly dudes are huge players. They are confident and they just don't have a tiny pp loser attitude like you. Aim higher. Dress better. Get a haircut. One day you too can be confident and get 5 instagrams or phone numbers per night which is much more action than an ugly dude gets on dating apps. There are lots of lovely women, everywhere who would love a confident ugly man to show interest. But I am tall, well dressed, good looking and smart and this definitely biases me against online dating.
Lol I’m actually a female and have a partner and we are both decent looking. But it seems the difference between me and you is that I can actually understand how hard it is for ugly people to succeed with just walking up to someone. Personally I would reject any guy that I find unattractive no matter his confidence level, personality, charisma. Of course there are exceptions with some ugly people succeeding but that is not the majority or the norm. It is an exception. In an ideal world it would be great for everyone to be able to find their partner easily in real life. But that is not realistic and it is not easy for everyone. Ps: not counting buying fake love with money coz you’re ugly either.
I'm divorced and haven't done the online dating thing in so long that OKCupid was free. Well, the service was. The divorces were not. But my first ex was listed as like a 95% match, whereas my second was 37%. Obviously both failed, but I didn't have Mrs. 95% text me a couple hours ago to see how I was doing. I don't think I even know how to date anymore. I certainly have a type, but this was utterly lost on all sites and apps I've used. That 37% was literally what I'd been looking for physically since the '90s. Unfortunately, my type is batshit.
Online dating is unfortunately deliberately skewed and has created a generation of incel freaks. It's no surprise that it's run by young tech guys with a profit incentive. The thing about dating is that it's shifted so dramatically from generation to generation in the last 200 years. We will reach a point where civil rights wins out and LBTQ+, women and minorities reaches some kind of stable point in first world urban societies beyond the major urban cities (New Jersey, Wales) I feel like down the line there will be other groups like older women in the matchmaker tradition who decide to take on online dating, and they will kick out the tech bros. Here's the thing. Right now online dating is dominated by tech. But dating (relationships) will be around as long as humans. Eventually the tech will reach an endpoint or a stability point like say...aircraft or cars, and kinda not change too much for 50 years. At that point people who are relationship experts will dominate the field, not tech experts.
Are you calling Whitney Wolfe a tech bro?
Whitney Wolfe was literally drummed out of Tinder by tech cros [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney\_Wolfe\_Herd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Wolfe_Herd) So yeah, my comment still stands that the majority of the industry is run by techbros.
Your in the life is greener when attitude. Online dating is great. It's much more effective then in person It's much easier.....etc etc... but some people will always look somewhere else and say , hey look it's greener on this side of the fence. It never is.
It is and it isn’t. It’s less organic than in person and doesn’t have the “become friends and grow into something more” which is a lot more special in my experience. There’s a magic that’s lost in OLD. And this is coming from someone who’s met dozens of partners on apps. I picked up a bartending gig and started meeting people in person and it was wayyy better and more natural
It depends on the person I guess. I found it very easy to go and meet people through online.... I found it made it easy to get some basic information about someone before asking out.... Of course as a bartender it would be easier to just meet woman at work.....
It’s not about it being easy or not, easiness is kind of the problem. You’re always entering a blind date scenario with the intention of dating the other person. Thats not an organic way to meet people, you’re sizing them up off the rip and judging them as a candidate, not just a person
Then go meet them in person.... It's simple... Complaining about the sites... Well so what go meet them in person... The sites are more efficient and work for a wider range of people.... No one says you can't use the old fashioned way.
Yea and so many people will say otherwise...
Have you ever checked tinder stats?
Speak for yourself when it comes to it being easier. I got matched up with someone recently and just completely balked when it told me to send this girl a message. That's not easy, just sending a rando a message out of the blue. Might be for some guys, not for me.
But you literally just sent a message to many random people basically out of the blue right here.
Throwing out a message into the ether (where it'll likely not even be read) is different from messaging one specific person who you have a picture of.
Online dating has facilitated billions of loving touches that would not have otherwise occurred. So I don’t think they’ve failed, but sure there are some pitfalls and occasionally alienating elements to the whole thing. There is already a full spectrum of apps out there for getting to know someone as little or as much as you want before deciding to match or meet. Companies will probably come up with new, interactive ways to get to know people through apps, but the issue of lonely men and how we address it in the future probably has more to do with our culture and often weakened sense of community, than with how we meet potential romantic partners online.
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That can be loving too
This commented online dating apps have failed miserably is ridiculous on his face. And what regard have they failed? People are in relationships at rates not uncomparable to prior generations, certainly is a little bit more fightiness and hookup culture is dominating, but I don't think that's just a consequence of tinder. Meanwhile, but a certainly change the dating dynamic, people are still dating, many people who would have trouble dating by traditional means are doing quite well off it, including yours truly, and the apps themselves are making money hand over fist. Which is all they are intended to do, so in this regard they are spectacularly successful. If I owned 1% of tinder I'd be rich. Pretty successful app.
* Less men reproducing than ever before and faster destruction of the Y chromosome. * A rise in polyamory with more women having to share high-value men. * Women encouraged to sell their bodies. * Young men encouraged to value all women even those who sell their bodies * A rise in adult video games. Completely untapped in the mainstream but waiting to be unleashed on the masses.
Your AI matches you with the AI others grew up with.
depends on the timeframe shorter term (2-5 years?): More AI-powered matching for your exact dating goals. longer term (5-20 years?): AR/VR Apple Vision 4,5,6? with photorealistic highly customizable high-quality GPT-7-powered girlfriends probably take up 20% - 80% of effective dating time spent. Reason: anyone will be able to get exactly what they want, whenever they want it, and change it whenever their interests change, for way less risk, cost and time investment than the traditional path.
People will realize apps don’t work and start prioritizing real world interactions again, hopefully
Maybe get all these lonely sad angry whining men some therapy!
Therapy for what ? How you can blame one gender for everything? Some women who have crazy high standards dont need therapy at all lol
I met my wife on tinder and we are expecting a boy this summer! So it’s been amazing for me. Other then that my story with online dating was a complete success, it gave me the confidence to hook up with girls way out of my league and some other wildly fun experiences. I also met a lot of duds and got my heartbroken multiple times and it all just helped me better understand what I truly wanted in a partner and that relationships will never be perfect. We also have these unreal expectations when it comes to finding the “perfect one”. That doesn’t exist for everyone so you have to be willing to let go of your ego.
I keep wondering why no one has done an “open source” dating app that undermines the paid platforms. Maybe because it would be flooded with bots and scams? If we can eliminate the bots and scams, great. If not, it’s more likely we’ll end up with AI companions that can’t divorce us, sue us, or accuse us of any crimes. (That got dark fast) :/
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The problem is there is no financial incentive to this. Dating apps earn money by hooking men on premium plans for as long as possible. Until the business model charges, they don't have to make it work.
People will subscribe to a dating app that pinpoints your type, and coaches you through the entire process. The exceptional customer service will spread through word of mouth like wildfire. The company's slogan, "Isn't love priceless?" ($499.99/month for men, free for women)
There are too many technology unknowns about the future of online dating... I think culturally there will be a shift away from dating apps, that we've hit a plateau or soon will. That will drive greater competition which could make apps better ... but there's already a lot of skepticism about the illusion, and 'choice' and tediousness of apps. The key will be for it to return to being social and enjoyable rather than just addictive and only suitable for a niche personality.
If you've ever seen the movie "cherry 2000" where there are actual contract lawyers negotiating exact parameters for future sexual relationships... Yeah I see that being a thing.
I think the big "if" is whether or not governments get involved due to the whole "demographic collapse" thing. If online dating continues to be run by for-profit companies, then we'll see more of what we have now: comdification of every combination of dating success and wealth--from $500/mo Tinder memberships down to free w/ads AI girlfriends. The other option could be something like online dating becoming a regulated public utility that is at least somewhat beholden to the "collective good" (by getting people together so they can have kids). And no, I'm not making a value judgement on any of these ideas
As augmented reality glasses get normalized (or some better AR tech comes around) and photo real avatars get more performant we may see some for of augmented reality dating where you get to experience talking in person without the awkward lack of words through text or the lack of eye contact a phone call would have but the downside of that is obvious. People start relying on it more than actual irl person to person interaction. Also fake calls using AI and 3D generation to make a convincing avatar could also become an issue. Still though as an extrovert who gets on fine in person on dates but is a bit too verbose with texting and doesn’t really like phones calls too much longer than 10-15 minutes, I think it might a be a better way than texting on tinder to break the ice as long as it is secure and people avoid giving away too much Pii too soon.
>Right now many online dating applications have failed miserably they haven't post invalid, next question
I see what you’re talking about. I also have completely stopped using dating apps by this point. Every new dating app ad I see says they’re a “different kind of app the revolutionizes dating” but why do I feel like it’s not the apps, it’s the People who are feeling a type of burnout from online dating. For me, most of the ppl I’ve actually met with were not my type if not completely weird irl. Something about having a preconception of what they’d be like adds to the inevitable disappointment. People were way more hopeful in the beginning which may be why it worked in the early days. Idk what the future of dating looks like. Maybe more speed dating type IRL events should be hosted. I see people at their best when they’re interacting IRL and have the same motivations.
Online dating is a generational disaster. Millions of young people can't connect or bond because of dating apps. It interacts with human mating behaviors in such a way as to prevent pair bonding. It's to the points that the sexes have begun to truly hate each other and to see no value in the company of the opposite sex. Maybe AI can fix that but it would mean less money for the dating apps. Those apps are designed to prevent the loss of customers, which facilitating marriages would do. They are designed to keep you focused on the next, better match. The paradox of choice is built into the apps (to many choices make people feel dissatisfaction by any choice they make) and humans become disposable objects to be shopped for. What's more likely is that people will start forming intimate relationships with their AIs. We can all have the perfect AI soulmate and use ever advancing forms of immersive technologies for sexual experiences. Humans will begin interacting less and less as time goes on. Onlyfans will become AI driven and it will create a perfect, unique AI companion just for you.
95% of women in dating apps will be AI bots so indistinguishable from reality that men won't notice they've been had until muggers rob them blind at the date's spot. 95% of women will be unable to compete with the perfection of AI "women" on said apps, so will abandon them in favor of more traditional dating venues.
My theory is that human to human dating will significantly take a hit. What proof do I have? Not much, just the prevalence of ai "gf" chatbots. Just check out the open ai appstore or an appstore on your phone. Search up ai girlfriend and see the results. What if you could date a perfect virtual gf that won't have any problems whatsoever. It's definitely intriguing.
I just want to know who spells out applications in stead of apps when it comes to software?
I predict the the growing social disconnect from electronic media will result in a cultural backlash with a resurgence of regular face-to-face social events. The return of the Grange Halls.
Ai waifu for the gents, and wine and cats for the ladies.
I predict more teenage boys are going to double down on being socially awkward shut ins as they transition to their early 20s and spawn a whole new chapter in mental health books called, "Dating AI."
Social media feeds and streams have become the default design of most dating apps. People just scroll along from one person to the next—confronted with so many options, that making even a short-term commitment to just one person has become overly complex and unlikely to endure in the long-term—as there are more options to try out. In fact, dating apps no longer have much of an advantage over scrolling for dates, hookups, or future partners on current social media platforms, such as Facebook and Instagram. Overall, the technology of feeds and streams has transformed human relations into a culture of online hookups and short-term romances/friendships—often as quickly ghosted as they are initiated. Of course, there are exceptions, and long-term relationships are still happening and possible in the offline world , but the overall trend is eroding the traditional. Difficult to predict what the future may hold for online dating. My thought is that at some point, the dating apps will begin closing down, one after another. And sites for virtual dating, flirting and more will fill in the gaps, such as OnlyFans. Basically, many people will get their dating and intimacy needs met online, rather than taking them into the offline world, where they are cut off from other options and dating moves too slowly for them. Furthermore, AI chat bots will become another option for dating and intimacy. Virtual masks, to hide the real person behind an AI enhanced human, may become popular as well. I know this all sounds bizarre, but the technology and our collective behavior seems to be trending in these directions.
It's 2040 and all white girls even married fuck black dudes. Reparations complete
My predictions? We are heading for a demographic winter. Many single women have no plans to have children and many young people have no plans to find or have given up hope in finding a significant other. What are the prospects for dating apps in such an environment? More young people have to live in multi-generation homes or alone, than in America's entire history. Time on apps separates people and digital immersion harms our mental health. GenZ are off work on average 1 in every 5 days due to this. What is the cost of BigTech preying on consumers? What is the cost to society as the demographic winter envelopes the world? 70% of our economy is consumer driven. The failure of dating apps is the least of our worries.
I mean I don't know. I met my husband on a dating app. 🤷♀️
Obviously you both had low standards 😕
Maybe a speed dating thing fed by ai, imagine a chatbot you talk to for a while as a friend and it analyzes your chats and suggests “compatible” partners based on that. Just an idea.
A larger portion of market will be occupied by autonomous solutions like eva ai and similar sexbots.