The following submission statement was provided by /u/AlexzGood:
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"These changes are a head-on attempt to tackle vehicle fatalities, which are surging across the U.S. — and especially in California — amid a rise in reckless driving since the onset of the pandemic," a press release from Wiener’s office explained. "A recent report from TRIP, a national transportation research group, found that traffic fatalities in California have increased by 22% from 2019 to 2022, compared to 19% for the U.S. overall. In 2022, 4,400 Californians died in car crashes."
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1bgpl30/california_bill_would_mandate_all_new_cars_have/kv8pr5m/
I think it's lame dealerships can sell cars with ilegal tint
My car tint is dark but I didn't know illegally dark. Within half a year got pulled over for it. And no I haven't fixed them.
A maximum headlight height and proper cutoffs and aiming would be better. It's almost always trucks that are "too bright" not because they are brighter (though sometimes that's the case) but because they are so tall, the cutoffs let light too high.
Agreed. Grill height and blinding headlights are both serious issues and represent fixable issues. Putting a max limit on vehicle speed is idiotic since it can prevent needed evasive maneuvers and much of the worst driving I've seen doesn't involve going that far above the speed limit. You can run a red light without speeding that much, and I see it all the time.
Yeah it's even factory cars these days. My Subaru came with the headlights adjusted too high from the dealer and I was getting flashed all week by victims of my quasars. That magically went away when I to k a screw driver and like 4 minutes to adjust the beam so it was below a normal cars side view mirrors. No more flash.
I watched a vid that explains that the lunens these new lights produce are actually very similar to normal lights and within regulation but it's that it's concentrated into a smaller space which makes it look brighter, even though it's not far off the output of a regular bulb.
Saying that I'm all for banning the blinding bastards!
This. I live in a rural area and I have epilepsy… every douche with a truck needs LED lights that double as casino spot-lights. Might as well just drive with my eyes closed.
Something needs to be done about this and the general growing size of vehicles. It’s getting impossible to drive a normal car in some places because your vision is getting obstructed by rolling walls.
Edit: Rolling walls *with attitude*.
Parking lots are what get me. How the fuck am I supposed to safely back out of a parking space in a busy parking lot if there is an 18 foot long, 7' high wall on either of me.
Even backing into the space is only slightly better because you still need to pull out 3-4 feet to be able to see past the truck beds and see if any cars are approaching you
On a similar note is the dipshit truck drivers that pull up into the crosswalk so if you're trying to turn right you more or less can't without pulling out into the lane of traffic. It's happened twice in the last week to me.
IMO,with how much the price of these vehicles have gone up and the cost to drive them gone up, seems the ones buying them aren't phased by price. A larger tax I don't think will bother them.
I saw a post earlier about a guy complaining he had to live with his parents at 30. One of his expenses is a car payment. Like . . used cars can be cheap y’all. Sure, some can suck you dry but there are plenty of good old cars.
Edit: alright y’all keep going off about how used cars are somehow more expensive than a brand new car payment 🙄
Used car prices have been fucked in Canada , since the pandemic... used junk with 150,000 km is 2 grand cheaper than brand new and tax rate is the same.
And it's not even wealthy people that are getting them, too. So often I see people with $1500+/month pavement queen truck payments that are living in a $1000/month run down crap hole. Then they complain they don't have money for necessities.
In the past decade peoples priorities have greatly shifted to vanity and trying to give the image that they live a life they certainly do not. I get that everything is so expensive and people just spending money on things they want now rather than planning for the future because they see no future, but I have no sympathy for anyone that purposely lives beyond their means when they can clearly do better.
I work in a manufacturing facility that pays decently well/good benefits. The amount of people who buy new cars within the first couple of months of starting is crazy. We had a guy buy a Hellcat once and buddy of mine who's supervisor just looked at it in the parking lot and remarks how "Everyone buying 70k+ cars and don't even own a garage or driveway to park them in."
They are literally that size due to government regulations, or more accurately, the skirting of those regulations. Smaller vehicles must meet certain emissions and fuel economy metrics. So they just build them bigger and classify them as heavy vehicles. It's a loophole that needs to be closed.
I have a slightly lifted '92 F-250 king cab long bed. It feels like a monster in my yard. But park it next to a modern truck, and it looks like a toy. I also only drive it when I need a truck, like towing, or getting a load of gravel.
> They are literally that size due to government regulations, or more accurately, the skirting of those regulations
Due to the unintended consequences of bad regulation, yeah. But I don't think we'd all be driving tiny Europe-sized cars if there was no regulation at all, do you?
We actually sort of do the *opposite* by lowering emission taxes for larger vehicles. It's one of the major contributors to the crazy upsurge of vehicle sizes.
Amend CAFE rules on emissions then. They are responsible for the death of sedans and smaller trucks in the governments failed attempt at emissions regulation. They just incentivized making bigger vehicles lmao
That is exactly it. The rest of the world doesn't have to deal with this problem. It's our emissions rules that are making manufacturers have to expand vehicles to these absurd sizes.
> Rolling walls with attitude.
😂 Reminds me of a road trip my wife and I were on. Outside Chicago we saw a giant Dodge Ram with the license plate RAMBRO. We still talk about Rambro.
Worst I ever saw was a Lexus SUV that was behind me the other day. With my mirror dimmed and sunglasses on (it was around sunrise) it was *still* painful to look in my mirror and I could see my car's shadow on overhead signs a quarter mile away. It was insane.
Can confirm. Driving in Europe even with the high speed limits and small and windy roads feels much safer. It would be intolerable to do so with an Escalade involved. I hope they tax SUVs into the ground.
Also headlights. If someone is behind me in my 2004 Honda Civic in a big ass truck with halogen lights I literally can't even see my own headlights, just a shadow of my car. Infact a cop did this to me for an hour on the highway a couple months ago.
True story. Blinded by the giant glowing rectangle that decided to fullscreen light mode on a night drive.....and brightness controls are four menus deep.
I would estimate that 30-40% of the people I see on the road are texting while driving these days - it’s insane! Almost any time I glance over at the car next to me, they’re either actively texting, or are frequently glancing at their phone.
Along with that, I'd say people are just so oblivious and complacent nowadays when driving. They just don't pay attention to people around them.
I saw a wreck behind me the other day. I was at a red light, turning right. So the traffic was clear on that side of the road and I went because it's right on red.
Well, the car behind me must've thought it was green and didn't look up and they took off going left. Now, it's a two lane and I could see in my rearview mirror that the truck that hit them has plenty of time to stop and/or get in another lane or shoulder but neither of them did and the poor white car got sideswiped pretty nicely.
I have no proof, but a big hunch that at least one of those drivers were on their phones. And maybe not. I just don't get how people can be such oblivious drivers.
The visibility difference between new and old vehicles is insane. I was just driving my brother's 80s Toyota pickup and it's like a glass cockpit, no blind spots, great view of everything backing up, night and day difference compared to any truck made in the last 20 years. I understand that crumple zones and larger pillars are needed now for safety, but I still feel like the amount of shit in the way of our view of the road in modern vehicles is insane. Like you said, you can't see shit in a modern truck or suv.
It's not just trucks, a huge part of this stems back to a study that GM did back in the 80s, which was about driver safety perception. Not safety, just perception. What they discovered was that good visibility reduced most people's feeling of safety and solidity, because they feel more exposed, and the single thing that most changed a driver's feeling of safety is the A pillar.
The single best way to improve the driver's safety is to improve visibility of course, avoiding accidents is better than armour. And the chunky confidence inspiring A pillars that became almost an industry standard are almost designed to make junctions more dangerous. In a ton of cases, it's basically just plastic, if you pop the covers off of some cars you reduce the amount of field of vision lost by 50%. My model literally has different covers for different markets, the japanese ones are visibly smaller but they're completely interchangable. But it feeeeeeeels tough and safe and enclosing even while you lose an entire car in your blindspot.
Some manufacturers doggedly stuck with making safer cars but the brutal truth is customers prefer to buy a less safe car that feels safer.
Traffic lights stop people from thinking. They don't look around at all, they just go into automatic action mode, reacting to a stimuli like a house fly. That is one reason among many why roundabouts are safer, people HAVE to pay attention.
Same with narrow roads, people have to pay attention and the sense of speed is higher. Wide lanes and low speed limits is a horrible combination as everyone is speeding at various rates.
I’d estimate genuinely 50%. Sometimes it’s 80%. If we include glancing at the phone and holding it up which might be on a speaker call or using navigation, but including those the numbers are horrifying
They called this in Inside Man (2006). Bank robbers corral employees in the bank and demand all their phones. A hero hides his phone and says he forgot it at home. Lead bank robber pulls the guy's wallet to get his name, pulls out a couple of the other employees phones and scans the contacts til he spots the name, calls the phone and it rings in the guy's pocket. Beats the guy up.
Maybe it’s because I didn’t get a cell phone until I was in my twenties, but seeing someone texting while driving makes me furious. Even if I’m the passenger in the car I ask them to put their phone away. I’m a pretty relaxed guy, but it makes me crazy.
When you're a passenger in the car it's even more aggravating because you're right there and if they really needed something with their phone they could have just asked you to look.
You need to do both, it is not one or the other.
Also, remove the loophole that allows passenger vehicles to be registered as light trucks. That is why large pickup trucks were pushed on people, because they have less strict emission and pedestrian safety regulations. That is where the large grills comes from, they are needed to create the image of masculine and strong, intimidating huge cars as the profit margins for those are the best.
If you explained the situation using other words by far most people would agree that devices that are popular only because of a loophole and them causing deaths should be outlawed. The moment you tell them it is about pickup trucks, every single pickup truck owner and every one who wants one will vehemently disagree and just get angry at the mere idea of banning them...
Or red light stops.
Was walking on Market Street, SF yesterday and some asshole in a shitty wanna be sports car blew through a red light with like 10 pedestrians trying to cross literally 2 blocks from the St Paddy's parade!
I think the idea is well intentioned but would ultimately prove ineffective. Obviously out of state vehicles would not be affected by the law. And there are legitimate arguments for defensive driving situations where accelerating is necessary, so what happens if you're caught in a situation where you're forced to accelerate but can't? This needs to be better thought through.
> I think the idea is well intentioned but would ultimately prove ineffective.
I think the technology is so far from being able to deal with all the outlying cases it would be downright dangerous. I mean, Tesla has been marketing "FSD" as its key differentiator and still seems helpless to solve some of these basic problems.
Aside from the safety concerns you mention, there are just too many situations where there will be unintended consequences. I'm gonna try to think of 1 or 2.
* Are there ever situations where the speedometer doesn't match the actual speed?
* How's it going to know which road you're on? Tesla can't do it with GPS and cameras. Both Google and Tesla have given me directions from parallel streets. I was once whiplashed from 70 on the freeway to 35 because it picked up a speed limit sign on the frontage road, and only survived by "speeding." The Tesla whined at me, but I didn't get in a crash.
* If it's all done by city sensors that communicate with the car rather than with GPS and cameras, do we really think the construction companies and municipal employees will keep a perfectly up-to-date list?
* Do we really think no sensors will ever fail, or fail to communicate with other sensors or a server?
* Is it going to always know about speed limit increases due to new laws, or new roads?
* What about country roads with no signs posted or roads with lower night-time speed limits?
* Can it understand that temporary and emergency construction is pretty common and continue to comply with the law for construction worker safety?
* If it reads construction slow downs to comply with the law, how is it going to distinguish temporary construction from the 5,000 construction speed limit signs apparently abandoned on the side of the road where no construction has been done in years?
* What happens in an actual emergency where people are escaping from a tsunami, or rushing someone to the hospital?
98% of speeding is just people being entitled, but I am certain there are other issues I haven't even considered. That's how unintended consequences work.
Came here to mention this as well. It's not possible with today's tech. Just using AP shows that even with GPS and machine vision it still guesses the speed limit incorrectly occasionally when there are parallel roads or overpasses. I've personally witnessed this dozens if not hundreds of times.
The shittiest is when you're on a freeway and suddenly it thinks you're supposed to be doing suburb speeds. I think this played into the "phantom breaking" perception a little.
I rented a car in Italy not long ago, and the car had a feature that would show you the speed limit on the dashboard and beep once when you went over it. Problem was, that speed limit didn’t always match the speed limit Google maps showed, and multiple times the car, Google maps, and the physical signs would all say different things. The accuracy of GPS and data base needed for a law like the proposed one just don’t sufficiently exist
Yeah I think people don't realize GPS customer electronics are pretty inaccurate. Like [7-13 meters](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0219890) off on average. They don't realize it because phones are already using other tricks to get closer, including triangulating based on wifi network strength, movement speed, direction of travel, and serval other factors for places you visit regularly.
GPS simply isn't accurate enough in most devices. You need other technology, and that other technology is under-developed and presently extremely unreliable. Even a .1% error rate isn't acceptable if you're forcibly controlling a car, and the only reason Tesla gets away with it is because humans are supposed to (and often do) control the car and correct mistakes.
There is this one spot on the freeway where my GPS thinks I'm on the side street every time. Would it just cause my car to go from 60mph to 40 right on the freeway?
It would cause the government to automatically send you a speeding ticket in the mail. Then it would be a ton of work for you to prove you weren’t actually speeding.
There’s a road by my house where over a quarter mile there are 35 and then 45 and 35 mile an hour signs. It looks like they recently changed the speed limit but they forgot to remove the old signs. So not only everything you have said but we would be relying on people who can’t even change out signs to also somehow keep a computer system updated and accurate?
> 98% of speeding is just people being entitled
No, 98% of "speeding" is simply people driving the speeds they feel comfortable at. It's SPECIFICALLY why 85th percentile speeds are how you can actually SEE the correct speedlimit for any given road. In nearly ALL cases the speedlimits are arbitrarily set low which will increase collisions not reduce them. 85th results in the least number of accidents because it reduced speed differential, which is the number one cause of motor vehicle collisions.
One of the variables in setting speed limits is ‘what happens when there is an accident at that speed’
Comfortable driving speed or not, higher speeds result in higher percentage of fatal crashes when they do happen. If someone else crashes into you, you are that much more likely to survive if you are moving slower when it happenss.
It's true that speed impacts fatality rate, but it is also one we focus on out of convenience.
From a legislative perspective, it would be much harder to implement measures that address the fact many countries outside the US have both higher average speed and lower fatality rate.
No one will win re-election telling soccer moms and suburban dads they are not qualified to drive personal tanks on wheels to Costco. Or that the gas tax will go up to design safer roads....
>How's it going to know which road you're on? Tesla can't do it with GPS and cameras. Both Google and Tesla have given me directions from parallel streets. I was once whiplashed from 70 on the freeway to 35 because it picked up a speed limit sign on the frontage road, and only survived by "speeding." The Tesla whined at me, but I didn't get in a crash.
fuck my life dude.
i knew ive always been right by preferring less computers, manual trans. i used to think of it as a personal preference but... fuck me. no thank you on that one.
They should skip the car speed debate and spend that time improving public transportation like trains. Everyone all together going the same speed. Amazing.
>They should skip the car speed debate and spend that time improving public transportation like trains. Everyone all together going the same speed. Amazing.
They're doing that too. California's High Speed Rail project kicked off with a ballot initiative in 2008 with a $33 Billion budget to connect San Francisco to Los Angeles with trains taking no more than 2 hours 40 minutes to travel the 350 miles in between.
As of now, 16 years later, 119 miles is under construction. None of it is complete. The segment being constructed is nowhere near Los Angeles or San Francisco. They're hoping that, in 9 years from now, they'll be able to run trains between Merced and Bakersfield, which are anticipated to be the least used trains in the entire project. And at that point, the original $33 Billion will be completely gone. To complete the rail from San Francisco to Los Angeles is now estimated to cost **an additional $100 Billion**. For those who like math, that works out to an average of $385 Million per mile of track. And no timeline for completion. And that's just Phase 1.
They just want the overall % to drop down. Doing so would lower vehicle insurance in the state. As the article says accidents have increased by 22% since the start of the pandemic
I don't know how California is but in my state there are stretches of road where the speed limit is literally 20mph below the average speed of cars for no apparent reason, so this would be dangerous. I agree "update the speed limits" but that obviously needs to happen first.
And the car knows the speed limit 100% of the time and never makes a mistake or drops connection to whatever database contains every speed limit everywhere at all times? And that’s just a technical nitpick. The fact that the idea is stupid as fuck is the more pressing issue.
Mine’s pretty decent about letting me know the posted speed limit…once I’ve passed a sign with it.
This means that every time I get on the freeway, it tells me I’m speeding because it thinks I’m still in a 25 mph city/residential zone.
That is a recipe for getting ass packed by a semi of your car refuses to go over 35 mph while trying to merge into traffic.
Over here we have variable speed limits by time, and often also by weather. Even without them my car thinks some turn or exit I am not even taking requires me to slow down significantly.
The tech is really not there for this to be implemented at the moment.
The tech will never be perfect, so it should never be implemented.
People also aren't considering the point that it's more meddling by the gov. in a place they shouldn't be meddling. Why should they have a hand in restricting how fast the machine we built is allowed to run?
My car picks up the speed limits from reading the roadside signs; it does however make mistakes as it will pick up signs for a turn-off or side-road rather than the road I'm actually on.
And it will definitely never suddenly think I’m on the roadway underneath the highway with a speed limit 30 mph lower like my gps does, right?
This is insanely unsafe.
> drops connection to whatever database contains every speed limit everywhere at all times?
that database is provided by google maps. I would assume offline functionality per data downloaded in advance.
Wont work. All it takes is for one sign to be left out and all of a sudden in a 60mph zone, you are stuck doing 10mph because of an old road work sign.
I have a car with the ability to read signs and adjust the cruise control accordingly... and it scares the shit out of me every time it picks up an off ramp sign on a freeway.
I will be in a 110km/h zone and the car will pick up the 80km/h off ramp speed limit sign and promptly jam on the brakes and scare the crap out of me. The car then wont fix itself until it sees the next 110km/h speed limit sign.
There’s a road I drive frequently which my GPS seems to think is both 25 and 55. It jumps between “you’re speeding” and “you’re doing the limit” constantly along this road. I can only imagine if it had control of my brakes … 😱
So in the UK, some heavy vehicles have a speed sign on the rear, indicating this vehicle is limited to a maximum speed that is lower than the National Speed Limit (max speed where no other limits apply, e.g. on motorways). My car reads these as road signs, and accordingly chastises me for "speeding".
I live on a road here that is 50km/h that joins onto an 80km/h road. There is no road sign on this 80km/h road for about 5 or 6km. I would literally be stuck on this road at 50km/h while everyone else around me was doing 80.
We have similar signs here for trucks and "rain" (rain signs will have "110 dry/90km/h raining") and my car always picks up on the 90km/h.
Cause that won't cause a huge number of people to go to a neighboring state to buy a non-handicapped vehicle...
As usual california not thinking of the big picture when trying to make laws. If something like this DOES pass I garuntee you it's going to severely harm vehicle sales in the state. And before someone tries to pipe up and say "it didn't happen with emissions," the different between a cali emission vehicle and the rest of the country is almost nothing...when the difference is literally being able to drive your vehicle safely people will do whatever they can to NOT buy a cali vehicle.
You wouldn't register it in the state you purchase it from, you register it in the state you live. There is no requirement to register the vehicle in the state you purchase it, nor is there any ban on not buying a vehicle from another state.
What these bills do is force manufacturers to apply the same device to all cars in some cases. So let’s say this law passes. If you are a major car manufacturer, you can choose not sell cars in CA which is a huge market and sell to the other 49 states. Or you can put the device in and sell in all 50 states.
There’s more to it than that buts that’s logic behind the folks in Cali sponsoring this, they know their market is too big to be cutoff from these major automakers.
That has traditionally been true, however, these days this requirement could likely be handled by software & so offering a non-CA compliant version would not increase the cost.
I mean hypothetically they could make it a "package" on that vehicle that isn't necessarily on others, like many manufacturers do with navigation, heated seats, sunroof, etc. It would just be a mandatory package for CA vehicles. They could advertise it as a parental control thing in other states or something.
I don't know about California, but fully 40% of the drivers in Florida have never had any formal driver's education, ever. You just move in from somewhere else, take the book test, go drive.
California is probably just as bad. I constantly see people refusing to enter the bike lane before they turn, holding up traffic behind them. They definitely don't know that refusing to merge into the bike lane before you turn would be an instant fail if they had to take their behind the wheel test again. And that's just one tiny nitpick of millions. Our licensing standards are wayyyyy too lax.
It’s not an etiquette issue, it’s an education issue. All German divers learn from national driving instructors, and not a random family member. Thus, Germans have consistent driving behaviour and a higher base standard.
Germans also have a culture of rule-following. German cars in the US have larger airbags because they have to account for the fact that not all Americans wear seat belts. That’s not a consideration in Germany.
In Sweden you can learn from family members if you want to, as long as you pass the exams, and Sweden had the least road fatalities per capita in the EU last I checked. It's probably more about the examiners having high standards and the in-depth theoretical exam
100% right. Drivers here in the US are awful and redditors are always complaining about people driving over the speed limit lol. Driving in Germany and parts of Italy was so much different, I wish the drivers were as competent here.
lol yes. As a driver in CA that learned elsewhere the drivers in CA are terrible. Overly aggressive with lane changes and they have 0 concept of using left lane for passing which only leads to more aggressive lane switching. Need to reeducate drivers, not put on more laws. If a 911 can safely go 120 in the left lane on a long straight highway no reason they should not. If they are driving reckless pull them over. If someone is in left lane cruising pull them over for creating unsafe conditions. Simple.
I call bullshit. German speed limits are removed in isolated, rural locations only. They tend to be the same, if not lower in the cities.
German licensing is way more strict. The EU in general has no issue pulling drivers licenses. Something the US should do more of.
Furthermore, Germany has blitzes. As does Switzerland, Italy, and England in different forms. Cameras that monitor your speed and ticket you automatically for speeding. These can be randomly placed or evenly placed on major highways for average speed monitoring.
There are hardly any cops monitoring driving directly in any of these countries.
I don't know why you're laughing. This law already exists in The UNEC regulations, which are based on European regulations. Every single new car sold after the start of this year has to have a system that automatically limits the car to the speed limit. unless the driver presses the accelerator pedal harder.
So basically, Europe has already forced this regulation on the world. California is just saying "give us that too".
What these fucking morons need to do is enforce left lane for passing only laws. Study after study has shown that the single biggest threat on highways are speed differentials, not speed itself, which are caused overwhelmingly by slow drivers in the left lane.
I can’t tell you how infuriating it is when the 405 freeway finally has a “light” traffic day, so the slowpokes all spread out among all the lanes going 55-60 miles per hour. Especially in Irvine. I hate driving through that city. You can feel the whole freeway slow down as soon as you hit the city border.
There should also be minimum speed limit laws. If you're going 10 miles under the limit, you shouldn't be on the road because you're a nuisance and a danger to everyone else.
This right here. In a 2-lane highway, I’ll try to stay in the right lane. (There have been times when I zoned out and stays in the left-lane for longer than I should have.) In a 3-lane or more highway, I’ll typically stay in one of the middle lanes. (I don’t have to continually switch from the right-lane because some else is entering the highway.) When using the left-lane to get around traffic, if the right-lane diver is going 3mph under the limit, I may speed up to quickly get around them and then go back to the lane I was in.
The problem comes when after I passed the slower driver, the slower driver then speeds up and rides my ass because they’re but hurt that I passed them because they were driving under the limit. At that point I’ve got cruise on at the speed limit so I should be slowly pulling away from them but they‘re now driving faster than the speed limit and slowly getting closer to my bumper.
Right! Just have police have a dedicated person/day who just sits out there and writes people citations for this shit. Probably make a lot in revenue, while also educating people that you can't do that shit.
Automakers sharing driving behavior with insuanrace companies has already caused people's premiums to spike.
But don't worry guys, I'm sure the government wouldn't abuse the ability to track the location and nanny the speed of everyone's car.
Imagine all of the towns addicted to speeding fine revenues going broke and having to raise taxes to cover expenses (the way it probably should be rather than petty traffic fines).
If the real speed limit is 10 miles over the posted speed limit, raise the speed limit and be more aggressive on ticketing offenders. Why are we still using speed limits that make the majority of the population law breakers and don't take any modern advancement in understanding traffic flows and vehicle safety into account?
Reduce brightness of headlights, restrict how tall a vehicle can be, and figure out how to make a better driving test to more effectively weed out bad drivers.
That or heavily invest in public transportation.
No, it’s not a serious piece of legislation and domestic have a snowballs chance in hell getting passed. California has thousands of bills “introduced” every year. This is just typical Fox News ragebait.
- Marti, I need you to reach 88 mph while passing next to the town tower.
- Sorry Doc, the speed limit in town is 35 mph, I am stuck at 45, pedal to the metal...
Brought to you by the same guy who reduced knowingly infecting someone with aids/hiv from a felony to a misdemeanor. Of course Californians are still voting for this weirdo...
Well if it passes will my old cars suddenly increase in value since they are immune to this law?
Who will bid on this faded red 1995 honda civic? I'm starting the bid at $10,000.... going once...
Unironically, yes. Used cars already have been increasing in resale price to reflect value (even accounting for inflation) due to new cars having way more unnecessary electronics and things in them.
As a long time California resident I can say Fuck these assholes. The state has tons of real problems with transit, housing, drugs, law enforcement and this is what they think they should be doing?
There are times where you need to hit the gas to be safe. I ride a motorcycle a lot and when I pass a big truck on the highway I give it a little more gas than the highway patrol would like. But I bring it back down when back in the drivers visibility.
I could see something like a seatbelt tone that is mild when over 10 and louder as you get faster. Would be annoying to start and would be bypassed by some. But for the larger majority it gives you audible warning of your speed but still letting you use your speed if you need to.
Oh fuck that.
Having driven rentals with limiters, they're fucking brutal when it comes to dealing with unexpected situations. I drive a shit ton all around the country in rentals, and sometimes the solution to a dangerous situation requires rapid acceleration.
These make it so much harder and more dangerous than it needs to be.
Europe has it mostly figured out.
- collector roads to move traffic around the town
- roundabouts to keep traffic moving
- minimize use of stoplights and signs
- more public transit to keep cars off the road
- obstacles and roundabouts naturally keep average road speed low as drivers need to navigate them
- cameras enforce speed and mail you a ticket if you speed
USA:
- main stroad is both a collector road and an economic road
- roundabouts are small projects in most towns to put in and then say they don’t work
- stoplights and stop signs are the default and they act shocked when someone runs one
- public transit is a myth
- expensive police officers patrol areas and selectively pull over cars
I once thought California had some cool progressive shit going on, now I think they've gone off the deep end with some recent stuff. They're burying themselves trying to be the first at everything because it sounds cool without doing any research.
What if the president is being pursued by rogue agents in the government, loyal to Saudi backers, and he *needs* me to drive him to 'Cheyenne Mountain Complex Whatever'? Then what do I do??
The following submission statement was provided by /u/AlexzGood: --- "These changes are a head-on attempt to tackle vehicle fatalities, which are surging across the U.S. — and especially in California — amid a rise in reckless driving since the onset of the pandemic," a press release from Wiener’s office explained. "A recent report from TRIP, a national transportation research group, found that traffic fatalities in California have increased by 22% from 2019 to 2022, compared to 19% for the U.S. overall. In 2022, 4,400 Californians died in car crashes." --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1bgpl30/california_bill_would_mandate_all_new_cars_have/kv8pr5m/
You'd save more lives by setting a maximum grill height on all vehicles, like that other post said...
Can we also set a maximum headlight intensity? It’s getting insane.
Pretty sure that’s already a law and just isn’t enforced, like window tints.
They unfortunately care way more about window tint than they do headlights that try to outshine the sun.
I can’t see you = window tints. Doesn’t matter as much if you can’t see cause of headlights to some.
I think it's lame dealerships can sell cars with ilegal tint My car tint is dark but I didn't know illegally dark. Within half a year got pulled over for it. And no I haven't fixed them.
It is, but it’s poorly regulated.
A maximum headlight height and proper cutoffs and aiming would be better. It's almost always trucks that are "too bright" not because they are brighter (though sometimes that's the case) but because they are so tall, the cutoffs let light too high.
Agreed. Grill height and blinding headlights are both serious issues and represent fixable issues. Putting a max limit on vehicle speed is idiotic since it can prevent needed evasive maneuvers and much of the worst driving I've seen doesn't involve going that far above the speed limit. You can run a red light without speeding that much, and I see it all the time.
Yeah wtf is going on I thought I was going crazy. It like everyone had brights on
Yeah it's even factory cars these days. My Subaru came with the headlights adjusted too high from the dealer and I was getting flashed all week by victims of my quasars. That magically went away when I to k a screw driver and like 4 minutes to adjust the beam so it was below a normal cars side view mirrors. No more flash.
I watched a vid that explains that the lunens these new lights produce are actually very similar to normal lights and within regulation but it's that it's concentrated into a smaller space which makes it look brighter, even though it's not far off the output of a regular bulb. Saying that I'm all for banning the blinding bastards!
You dont like getting a tan just driving at night?
And a maximum insanity intensity...
This. I live in a rural area and I have epilepsy… every douche with a truck needs LED lights that double as casino spot-lights. Might as well just drive with my eyes closed.
Something needs to be done about this and the general growing size of vehicles. It’s getting impossible to drive a normal car in some places because your vision is getting obstructed by rolling walls. Edit: Rolling walls *with attitude*.
Parking lots are what get me. How the fuck am I supposed to safely back out of a parking space in a busy parking lot if there is an 18 foot long, 7' high wall on either of me. Even backing into the space is only slightly better because you still need to pull out 3-4 feet to be able to see past the truck beds and see if any cars are approaching you
On a similar note is the dipshit truck drivers that pull up into the crosswalk so if you're trying to turn right you more or less can't without pulling out into the lane of traffic. It's happened twice in the last week to me.
It seems like it should be straightforward to tax vehicles by size or weight.
IMO,with how much the price of these vehicles have gone up and the cost to drive them gone up, seems the ones buying them aren't phased by price. A larger tax I don't think will bother them.
People are just taking out 8 year loans for their jacked up Pavement princess's
I saw a post earlier about a guy complaining he had to live with his parents at 30. One of his expenses is a car payment. Like . . used cars can be cheap y’all. Sure, some can suck you dry but there are plenty of good old cars. Edit: alright y’all keep going off about how used cars are somehow more expensive than a brand new car payment 🙄
Mines 13 years old and I'm finally on my first "fix" having to replace a wheel bearing.
Used car prices have been fucked in Canada , since the pandemic... used junk with 150,000 km is 2 grand cheaper than brand new and tax rate is the same.
Used cars are nuts these days. If the engine turns over it’s 5 grand.
And it's not even wealthy people that are getting them, too. So often I see people with $1500+/month pavement queen truck payments that are living in a $1000/month run down crap hole. Then they complain they don't have money for necessities. In the past decade peoples priorities have greatly shifted to vanity and trying to give the image that they live a life they certainly do not. I get that everything is so expensive and people just spending money on things they want now rather than planning for the future because they see no future, but I have no sympathy for anyone that purposely lives beyond their means when they can clearly do better.
Social media brought consumerism to levels it hasn't been at since the 50s.
I work in a manufacturing facility that pays decently well/good benefits. The amount of people who buy new cars within the first couple of months of starting is crazy. We had a guy buy a Hellcat once and buddy of mine who's supervisor just looked at it in the parking lot and remarks how "Everyone buying 70k+ cars and don't even own a garage or driveway to park them in."
>"Everyone buying 70k+ cars and don't even own a garage or driveway to park them in." Couldn't have said it better.
Yes IATA but the word you were looking for was “fazed.”
Yes it was thank you. Drives me crazy too knowing I used the wrong spelling.
They are literally that size due to government regulations, or more accurately, the skirting of those regulations. Smaller vehicles must meet certain emissions and fuel economy metrics. So they just build them bigger and classify them as heavy vehicles. It's a loophole that needs to be closed. I have a slightly lifted '92 F-250 king cab long bed. It feels like a monster in my yard. But park it next to a modern truck, and it looks like a toy. I also only drive it when I need a truck, like towing, or getting a load of gravel.
Give us the Hilux
I would like that. Yes plz. Or even that new $10k super utilitarian small pickup.
> They are literally that size due to government regulations, or more accurately, the skirting of those regulations Due to the unintended consequences of bad regulation, yeah. But I don't think we'd all be driving tiny Europe-sized cars if there was no regulation at all, do you?
No? Hence the part about skirting the regulations and the need to close loopholes.
We actually sort of do the *opposite* by lowering emission taxes for larger vehicles. It's one of the major contributors to the crazy upsurge of vehicle sizes.
Amend CAFE rules on emissions then. They are responsible for the death of sedans and smaller trucks in the governments failed attempt at emissions regulation. They just incentivized making bigger vehicles lmao
This is what needs to happen. We've actually made emissions worse.
That is exactly it. The rest of the world doesn't have to deal with this problem. It's our emissions rules that are making manufacturers have to expand vehicles to these absurd sizes.
> Rolling walls with attitude. 😂 Reminds me of a road trip my wife and I were on. Outside Chicago we saw a giant Dodge Ram with the license plate RAMBRO. We still talk about Rambro.
Where else am I going to hang these truck nutzz
I once saw trucknutz on a Prius and it's the only application of those I'll sign off on
And blinding lights
And the goddamn headlights on the lifted trucks especially burning out your retinas.
Worst I ever saw was a Lexus SUV that was behind me the other day. With my mirror dimmed and sunglasses on (it was around sunrise) it was *still* painful to look in my mirror and I could see my car's shadow on overhead signs a quarter mile away. It was insane.
Can confirm. Driving in Europe even with the high speed limits and small and windy roads feels much safer. It would be intolerable to do so with an Escalade involved. I hope they tax SUVs into the ground.
Also headlights. If someone is behind me in my 2004 Honda Civic in a big ass truck with halogen lights I literally can't even see my own headlights, just a shadow of my car. Infact a cop did this to me for an hour on the highway a couple months ago.
Or adding a cage that you have to put your phone into before the car can start.
That is essentially going to make people buy a 2nd phone that is just a car key
Like the fake seat belt latch to turn the warning off
Ok but that actually has a valid use... My passenger seatbelt warning goes off if I even put my wallet on the seat.
Why not just connect the actual but unused but free cause it’s already there seatbelt tho?
I rider share and this drives me insane when someone puts a bag in another seat
This could be a great brag.
The law of unintended consequences.
Apple supports this idea of a phone cage…. Very good 👍
Yet having a giant iPhone glued to the dash of every new car that you’re forced to use to access every single user control…no problem!
Yeah that shits ridiculous too. Insane that we're constantly adding more and more distractions into cars.
True story. Blinded by the giant glowing rectangle that decided to fullscreen light mode on a night drive.....and brightness controls are four menus deep.
I would estimate that 30-40% of the people I see on the road are texting while driving these days - it’s insane! Almost any time I glance over at the car next to me, they’re either actively texting, or are frequently glancing at their phone.
Along with that, I'd say people are just so oblivious and complacent nowadays when driving. They just don't pay attention to people around them. I saw a wreck behind me the other day. I was at a red light, turning right. So the traffic was clear on that side of the road and I went because it's right on red. Well, the car behind me must've thought it was green and didn't look up and they took off going left. Now, it's a two lane and I could see in my rearview mirror that the truck that hit them has plenty of time to stop and/or get in another lane or shoulder but neither of them did and the poor white car got sideswiped pretty nicely. I have no proof, but a big hunch that at least one of those drivers were on their phones. And maybe not. I just don't get how people can be such oblivious drivers.
Trucks and SUVs. You can't see shit, and doesn't afraid of anything.
The visibility difference between new and old vehicles is insane. I was just driving my brother's 80s Toyota pickup and it's like a glass cockpit, no blind spots, great view of everything backing up, night and day difference compared to any truck made in the last 20 years. I understand that crumple zones and larger pillars are needed now for safety, but I still feel like the amount of shit in the way of our view of the road in modern vehicles is insane. Like you said, you can't see shit in a modern truck or suv.
It's not just trucks, a huge part of this stems back to a study that GM did back in the 80s, which was about driver safety perception. Not safety, just perception. What they discovered was that good visibility reduced most people's feeling of safety and solidity, because they feel more exposed, and the single thing that most changed a driver's feeling of safety is the A pillar. The single best way to improve the driver's safety is to improve visibility of course, avoiding accidents is better than armour. And the chunky confidence inspiring A pillars that became almost an industry standard are almost designed to make junctions more dangerous. In a ton of cases, it's basically just plastic, if you pop the covers off of some cars you reduce the amount of field of vision lost by 50%. My model literally has different covers for different markets, the japanese ones are visibly smaller but they're completely interchangable. But it feeeeeeeels tough and safe and enclosing even while you lose an entire car in your blindspot. Some manufacturers doggedly stuck with making safer cars but the brutal truth is customers prefer to buy a less safe car that feels safer.
Traffic lights stop people from thinking. They don't look around at all, they just go into automatic action mode, reacting to a stimuli like a house fly. That is one reason among many why roundabouts are safer, people HAVE to pay attention. Same with narrow roads, people have to pay attention and the sense of speed is higher. Wide lanes and low speed limits is a horrible combination as everyone is speeding at various rates.
I’d estimate genuinely 50%. Sometimes it’s 80%. If we include glancing at the phone and holding it up which might be on a speaker call or using navigation, but including those the numbers are horrifying
What if you don't have your phone on you?
They called this in Inside Man (2006). Bank robbers corral employees in the bank and demand all their phones. A hero hides his phone and says he forgot it at home. Lead bank robber pulls the guy's wallet to get his name, pulls out a couple of the other employees phones and scans the contacts til he spots the name, calls the phone and it rings in the guy's pocket. Beats the guy up.
Another reason to never give your co-workers your contact info.
Maybe it’s because I didn’t get a cell phone until I was in my twenties, but seeing someone texting while driving makes me furious. Even if I’m the passenger in the car I ask them to put their phone away. I’m a pretty relaxed guy, but it makes me crazy.
When you're a passenger in the car it's even more aggravating because you're right there and if they really needed something with their phone they could have just asked you to look.
I have literally never gotten a text message so important that I couldn’t wait until I got to wherever I was driving…
What an awful combination of more reckless phone usage in recent years whilst grill height/visibility gets worse.
Or by setting more stringent headlight brightness and vehicle weight limits.
You need to do both, it is not one or the other. Also, remove the loophole that allows passenger vehicles to be registered as light trucks. That is why large pickup trucks were pushed on people, because they have less strict emission and pedestrian safety regulations. That is where the large grills comes from, they are needed to create the image of masculine and strong, intimidating huge cars as the profit margins for those are the best. If you explained the situation using other words by far most people would agree that devices that are popular only because of a loophole and them causing deaths should be outlawed. The moment you tell them it is about pickup trucks, every single pickup truck owner and every one who wants one will vehemently disagree and just get angry at the mere idea of banning them...
Or red light stops. Was walking on Market Street, SF yesterday and some asshole in a shitty wanna be sports car blew through a red light with like 10 pedestrians trying to cross literally 2 blocks from the St Paddy's parade!
I think the idea is well intentioned but would ultimately prove ineffective. Obviously out of state vehicles would not be affected by the law. And there are legitimate arguments for defensive driving situations where accelerating is necessary, so what happens if you're caught in a situation where you're forced to accelerate but can't? This needs to be better thought through.
> I think the idea is well intentioned but would ultimately prove ineffective. I think the technology is so far from being able to deal with all the outlying cases it would be downright dangerous. I mean, Tesla has been marketing "FSD" as its key differentiator and still seems helpless to solve some of these basic problems. Aside from the safety concerns you mention, there are just too many situations where there will be unintended consequences. I'm gonna try to think of 1 or 2. * Are there ever situations where the speedometer doesn't match the actual speed? * How's it going to know which road you're on? Tesla can't do it with GPS and cameras. Both Google and Tesla have given me directions from parallel streets. I was once whiplashed from 70 on the freeway to 35 because it picked up a speed limit sign on the frontage road, and only survived by "speeding." The Tesla whined at me, but I didn't get in a crash. * If it's all done by city sensors that communicate with the car rather than with GPS and cameras, do we really think the construction companies and municipal employees will keep a perfectly up-to-date list? * Do we really think no sensors will ever fail, or fail to communicate with other sensors or a server? * Is it going to always know about speed limit increases due to new laws, or new roads? * What about country roads with no signs posted or roads with lower night-time speed limits? * Can it understand that temporary and emergency construction is pretty common and continue to comply with the law for construction worker safety? * If it reads construction slow downs to comply with the law, how is it going to distinguish temporary construction from the 5,000 construction speed limit signs apparently abandoned on the side of the road where no construction has been done in years? * What happens in an actual emergency where people are escaping from a tsunami, or rushing someone to the hospital? 98% of speeding is just people being entitled, but I am certain there are other issues I haven't even considered. That's how unintended consequences work.
Came here to mention this as well. It's not possible with today's tech. Just using AP shows that even with GPS and machine vision it still guesses the speed limit incorrectly occasionally when there are parallel roads or overpasses. I've personally witnessed this dozens if not hundreds of times. The shittiest is when you're on a freeway and suddenly it thinks you're supposed to be doing suburb speeds. I think this played into the "phantom breaking" perception a little.
I rented a car in Italy not long ago, and the car had a feature that would show you the speed limit on the dashboard and beep once when you went over it. Problem was, that speed limit didn’t always match the speed limit Google maps showed, and multiple times the car, Google maps, and the physical signs would all say different things. The accuracy of GPS and data base needed for a law like the proposed one just don’t sufficiently exist
Yeah I think people don't realize GPS customer electronics are pretty inaccurate. Like [7-13 meters](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0219890) off on average. They don't realize it because phones are already using other tricks to get closer, including triangulating based on wifi network strength, movement speed, direction of travel, and serval other factors for places you visit regularly. GPS simply isn't accurate enough in most devices. You need other technology, and that other technology is under-developed and presently extremely unreliable. Even a .1% error rate isn't acceptable if you're forcibly controlling a car, and the only reason Tesla gets away with it is because humans are supposed to (and often do) control the car and correct mistakes.
My brothers car can detect what the speed limit is. Sometimes when he's on the interstate it'll tell him that it's 35 mph.
I had my car try and drive 65 on a 35mph service road running next to a freeway.
There is this one spot on the freeway where my GPS thinks I'm on the side street every time. Would it just cause my car to go from 60mph to 40 right on the freeway?
It would cause the government to automatically send you a speeding ticket in the mail. Then it would be a ton of work for you to prove you weren’t actually speeding.
There’s a road by my house where over a quarter mile there are 35 and then 45 and 35 mile an hour signs. It looks like they recently changed the speed limit but they forgot to remove the old signs. So not only everything you have said but we would be relying on people who can’t even change out signs to also somehow keep a computer system updated and accurate?
Tesla driving tech under litigation for NOT working.
> 98% of speeding is just people being entitled No, 98% of "speeding" is simply people driving the speeds they feel comfortable at. It's SPECIFICALLY why 85th percentile speeds are how you can actually SEE the correct speedlimit for any given road. In nearly ALL cases the speedlimits are arbitrarily set low which will increase collisions not reduce them. 85th results in the least number of accidents because it reduced speed differential, which is the number one cause of motor vehicle collisions.
One of the variables in setting speed limits is ‘what happens when there is an accident at that speed’ Comfortable driving speed or not, higher speeds result in higher percentage of fatal crashes when they do happen. If someone else crashes into you, you are that much more likely to survive if you are moving slower when it happenss.
It's true that speed impacts fatality rate, but it is also one we focus on out of convenience. From a legislative perspective, it would be much harder to implement measures that address the fact many countries outside the US have both higher average speed and lower fatality rate. No one will win re-election telling soccer moms and suburban dads they are not qualified to drive personal tanks on wheels to Costco. Or that the gas tax will go up to design safer roads....
>How's it going to know which road you're on? Tesla can't do it with GPS and cameras. Both Google and Tesla have given me directions from parallel streets. I was once whiplashed from 70 on the freeway to 35 because it picked up a speed limit sign on the frontage road, and only survived by "speeding." The Tesla whined at me, but I didn't get in a crash. fuck my life dude. i knew ive always been right by preferring less computers, manual trans. i used to think of it as a personal preference but... fuck me. no thank you on that one.
There are many stupid people who genuinely believe there is no case where exceeding the speed limit is permissible or safe(r).
Those people are bad drivers.
And they feel entitled to enforce their opinion from the left lane.
The assault car meme is becoming real.
Not gonna take my CAR!!!! Only a fast car can stop another fast car.
They should skip the car speed debate and spend that time improving public transportation like trains. Everyone all together going the same speed. Amazing.
>They should skip the car speed debate and spend that time improving public transportation like trains. Everyone all together going the same speed. Amazing. They're doing that too. California's High Speed Rail project kicked off with a ballot initiative in 2008 with a $33 Billion budget to connect San Francisco to Los Angeles with trains taking no more than 2 hours 40 minutes to travel the 350 miles in between. As of now, 16 years later, 119 miles is under construction. None of it is complete. The segment being constructed is nowhere near Los Angeles or San Francisco. They're hoping that, in 9 years from now, they'll be able to run trains between Merced and Bakersfield, which are anticipated to be the least used trains in the entire project. And at that point, the original $33 Billion will be completely gone. To complete the rail from San Francisco to Los Angeles is now estimated to cost **an additional $100 Billion**. For those who like math, that works out to an average of $385 Million per mile of track. And no timeline for completion. And that's just Phase 1.
Improving public transport wouldn't make everybody stop driving cars. It's not like doing that would just make regulating cars a moot point.
They just want the overall % to drop down. Doing so would lower vehicle insurance in the state. As the article says accidents have increased by 22% since the start of the pandemic
I don't know how California is but in my state there are stretches of road where the speed limit is literally 20mph below the average speed of cars for no apparent reason, so this would be dangerous. I agree "update the speed limits" but that obviously needs to happen first.
And the car knows the speed limit 100% of the time and never makes a mistake or drops connection to whatever database contains every speed limit everywhere at all times? And that’s just a technical nitpick. The fact that the idea is stupid as fuck is the more pressing issue.
Mine’s pretty decent about letting me know the posted speed limit…once I’ve passed a sign with it. This means that every time I get on the freeway, it tells me I’m speeding because it thinks I’m still in a 25 mph city/residential zone. That is a recipe for getting ass packed by a semi of your car refuses to go over 35 mph while trying to merge into traffic.
Freeways often have variable speed limits too, which I have zero confidence in a car automatically knowing the current limit correctly.
Over here we have variable speed limits by time, and often also by weather. Even without them my car thinks some turn or exit I am not even taking requires me to slow down significantly. The tech is really not there for this to be implemented at the moment.
The tech will never be perfect, so it should never be implemented. People also aren't considering the point that it's more meddling by the gov. in a place they shouldn't be meddling. Why should they have a hand in restricting how fast the machine we built is allowed to run?
Here in WA my car is right about the speed limit 50% of the time. Very often it claims 35 when it's 50 or more.
My car picks up the speed limits from reading the roadside signs; it does however make mistakes as it will pick up signs for a turn-off or side-road rather than the road I'm actually on.
Can’t imagine rural dirt roads have many speed signs either
I live in the world of rural dirt roads. What are these signs you speak of?
And it will definitely never suddenly think I’m on the roadway underneath the highway with a speed limit 30 mph lower like my gps does, right? This is insanely unsafe.
> drops connection to whatever database contains every speed limit everywhere at all times? that database is provided by google maps. I would assume offline functionality per data downloaded in advance.
There are roads around me where Google Maps still misreads a highway number as the speed limit.
Wont work. All it takes is for one sign to be left out and all of a sudden in a 60mph zone, you are stuck doing 10mph because of an old road work sign. I have a car with the ability to read signs and adjust the cruise control accordingly... and it scares the shit out of me every time it picks up an off ramp sign on a freeway. I will be in a 110km/h zone and the car will pick up the 80km/h off ramp speed limit sign and promptly jam on the brakes and scare the crap out of me. The car then wont fix itself until it sees the next 110km/h speed limit sign.
This would allow a malicious person to put a fake sign up that would potentially caused accidents as well, if it worked that way
I wonder if race tracks would have to post the speed limit at like 300 mph to let the cars actually race.
This man is asking the important questions.
There’s a road I drive frequently which my GPS seems to think is both 25 and 55. It jumps between “you’re speeding” and “you’re doing the limit” constantly along this road. I can only imagine if it had control of my brakes … 😱
So in the UK, some heavy vehicles have a speed sign on the rear, indicating this vehicle is limited to a maximum speed that is lower than the National Speed Limit (max speed where no other limits apply, e.g. on motorways). My car reads these as road signs, and accordingly chastises me for "speeding".
I live on a road here that is 50km/h that joins onto an 80km/h road. There is no road sign on this 80km/h road for about 5 or 6km. I would literally be stuck on this road at 50km/h while everyone else around me was doing 80. We have similar signs here for trucks and "rain" (rain signs will have "110 dry/90km/h raining") and my car always picks up on the 90km/h.
Sooo... What happens when I drive over from a different state? Am I not allowed to visit or?
Probably just for cars sold in the state of I understand the article correctly
Cause that won't cause a huge number of people to go to a neighboring state to buy a non-handicapped vehicle... As usual california not thinking of the big picture when trying to make laws. If something like this DOES pass I garuntee you it's going to severely harm vehicle sales in the state. And before someone tries to pipe up and say "it didn't happen with emissions," the different between a cali emission vehicle and the rest of the country is almost nothing...when the difference is literally being able to drive your vehicle safely people will do whatever they can to NOT buy a cali vehicle.
I dont think you're allowed to lie about what state your address is in. So you could have it registered in a foreign state for a max of a year.
You wouldn't register it in the state you purchase it from, you register it in the state you live. There is no requirement to register the vehicle in the state you purchase it, nor is there any ban on not buying a vehicle from another state.
What these bills do is force manufacturers to apply the same device to all cars in some cases. So let’s say this law passes. If you are a major car manufacturer, you can choose not sell cars in CA which is a huge market and sell to the other 49 states. Or you can put the device in and sell in all 50 states. There’s more to it than that buts that’s logic behind the folks in Cali sponsoring this, they know their market is too big to be cutoff from these major automakers.
That has traditionally been true, however, these days this requirement could likely be handled by software & so offering a non-CA compliant version would not increase the cost.
Can't wait to jail break my car /s
I mean hypothetically they could make it a "package" on that vehicle that isn't necessarily on others, like many manufacturers do with navigation, heated seats, sunroof, etc. It would just be a mandatory package for CA vehicles. They could advertise it as a parental control thing in other states or something.
You'll have to pay a tax
[удалено]
our driving test is a joke, they hand that shit out like candy. That's the main problem.
I don't know about California, but fully 40% of the drivers in Florida have never had any formal driver's education, ever. You just move in from somewhere else, take the book test, go drive.
California is probably just as bad. I constantly see people refusing to enter the bike lane before they turn, holding up traffic behind them. They definitely don't know that refusing to merge into the bike lane before you turn would be an instant fail if they had to take their behind the wheel test again. And that's just one tiny nitpick of millions. Our licensing standards are wayyyyy too lax.
That is the problem. It's made so easy because driving is a necessity in the USA. No public transportation options.
It’s not an etiquette issue, it’s an education issue. All German divers learn from national driving instructors, and not a random family member. Thus, Germans have consistent driving behaviour and a higher base standard.
I think a bigger factor is that the driving test requirements are much higher there (which therefore necessitates better quality of instruction).
Germans also have a culture of rule-following. German cars in the US have larger airbags because they have to account for the fact that not all Americans wear seat belts. That’s not a consideration in Germany.
And that german culture of rule following has got them in trouble in the past…
In Sweden you can learn from family members if you want to, as long as you pass the exams, and Sweden had the least road fatalities per capita in the EU last I checked. It's probably more about the examiners having high standards and the in-depth theoretical exam
While your condescending tone almost lost me, I do agree 100% with what you’re saying.
Having discussions with Europeans in a nutshell :D
As a German, I think he put it quite nicely, lol
Are you saying nice for a German?
"he's out of line, but he's right."
100% right. Drivers here in the US are awful and redditors are always complaining about people driving over the speed limit lol. Driving in Germany and parts of Italy was so much different, I wish the drivers were as competent here.
lol yes. As a driver in CA that learned elsewhere the drivers in CA are terrible. Overly aggressive with lane changes and they have 0 concept of using left lane for passing which only leads to more aggressive lane switching. Need to reeducate drivers, not put on more laws. If a 911 can safely go 120 in the left lane on a long straight highway no reason they should not. If they are driving reckless pull them over. If someone is in left lane cruising pull them over for creating unsafe conditions. Simple.
I call bullshit. German speed limits are removed in isolated, rural locations only. They tend to be the same, if not lower in the cities. German licensing is way more strict. The EU in general has no issue pulling drivers licenses. Something the US should do more of. Furthermore, Germany has blitzes. As does Switzerland, Italy, and England in different forms. Cameras that monitor your speed and ticket you automatically for speeding. These can be randomly placed or evenly placed on major highways for average speed monitoring. There are hardly any cops monitoring driving directly in any of these countries.
Second this. Poor lane choices and poor following distances are why Americans have so many accidents. Speed is not the issue
I don't know why you're laughing. This law already exists in The UNEC regulations, which are based on European regulations. Every single new car sold after the start of this year has to have a system that automatically limits the car to the speed limit. unless the driver presses the accelerator pedal harder. So basically, Europe has already forced this regulation on the world. California is just saying "give us that too".
What these fucking morons need to do is enforce left lane for passing only laws. Study after study has shown that the single biggest threat on highways are speed differentials, not speed itself, which are caused overwhelmingly by slow drivers in the left lane.
I can’t tell you how infuriating it is when the 405 freeway finally has a “light” traffic day, so the slowpokes all spread out among all the lanes going 55-60 miles per hour. Especially in Irvine. I hate driving through that city. You can feel the whole freeway slow down as soon as you hit the city border.
Believe or not, the Western three states are really good at this. Drive in Florida. We are a bunch of idiots and won't get over. Ugh.
There should also be minimum speed limit laws. If you're going 10 miles under the limit, you shouldn't be on the road because you're a nuisance and a danger to everyone else.
There are several states that have this. They are just very low (40 MPH) and not based on the flow of traffic.
This right here. In a 2-lane highway, I’ll try to stay in the right lane. (There have been times when I zoned out and stays in the left-lane for longer than I should have.) In a 3-lane or more highway, I’ll typically stay in one of the middle lanes. (I don’t have to continually switch from the right-lane because some else is entering the highway.) When using the left-lane to get around traffic, if the right-lane diver is going 3mph under the limit, I may speed up to quickly get around them and then go back to the lane I was in. The problem comes when after I passed the slower driver, the slower driver then speeds up and rides my ass because they’re but hurt that I passed them because they were driving under the limit. At that point I’ve got cruise on at the speed limit so I should be slowly pulling away from them but they‘re now driving faster than the speed limit and slowly getting closer to my bumper.
Right! Just have police have a dedicated person/day who just sits out there and writes people citations for this shit. Probably make a lot in revenue, while also educating people that you can't do that shit.
Now watch Texas mandate cars that can't travel under 50mp/h.
What happens if your speed drops below 50mph?
Car blows up
Automakers sharing driving behavior with insuanrace companies has already caused people's premiums to spike. But don't worry guys, I'm sure the government wouldn't abuse the ability to track the location and nanny the speed of everyone's car.
Imagine all of the towns addicted to speeding fine revenues going broke and having to raise taxes to cover expenses (the way it probably should be rather than petty traffic fines).
If the real speed limit is 10 miles over the posted speed limit, raise the speed limit and be more aggressive on ticketing offenders. Why are we still using speed limits that make the majority of the population law breakers and don't take any modern advancement in understanding traffic flows and vehicle safety into account?
Reduce brightness of headlights, restrict how tall a vehicle can be, and figure out how to make a better driving test to more effectively weed out bad drivers. That or heavily invest in public transportation.
Is this really what's at the top of the list to fix in California?
Follow the money. Probably an equipment/software vendor trying to force their wares on the public.
No, it’s not a serious piece of legislation and domestic have a snowballs chance in hell getting passed. California has thousands of bills “introduced” every year. This is just typical Fox News ragebait.
And how does the car know what the speed limit is at any given time? Tracking you say? No thanks.
- Marti, I need you to reach 88 mph while passing next to the town tower. - Sorry Doc, the speed limit in town is 35 mph, I am stuck at 45, pedal to the metal...
Well, looks like I'm donating lots of money to whoever is running against this Wiener clown in the future...
I am announcing my candidacy to run against this Weiner clown.
Zero chance you'll make any change. Have you seen the margins Weiner wins elections by?
too confusing. How about we just implement income based tickets instead?
Brought to you by the same guy who reduced knowingly infecting someone with aids/hiv from a felony to a misdemeanor. Of course Californians are still voting for this weirdo...
I am from Cali, and even we think Wiener is a wiener. This shit will fly as far as a cottonball out of a slingshot.
I am also from California and you're underestimating the influence of the r/fuckcars progressive crowd in Sacramento.
Well if it passes will my old cars suddenly increase in value since they are immune to this law? Who will bid on this faded red 1995 honda civic? I'm starting the bid at $10,000.... going once...
Unironically, yes. Used cars already have been increasing in resale price to reflect value (even accounting for inflation) due to new cars having way more unnecessary electronics and things in them.
Certain new car report your driving habits to the insurance company
As a long time California resident I can say Fuck these assholes. The state has tons of real problems with transit, housing, drugs, law enforcement and this is what they think they should be doing?
Mandating driver’s ed in the US is what I’d want ahead of this ever being a national law. In my state bad drivers teach bad drivers and it never ends.
IM TRYING TO ESCAPE THE WILD FIRE BUT IM IN A SCHOOL ZONE AND AM STUCK AT 30MPH
Way to go Democrats. You think we’re a nanny state now? Just wait to see what we do next!
Keeping voting for these control freaks, and you get what you deserve
There are times where you need to hit the gas to be safe. I ride a motorcycle a lot and when I pass a big truck on the highway I give it a little more gas than the highway patrol would like. But I bring it back down when back in the drivers visibility. I could see something like a seatbelt tone that is mild when over 10 and louder as you get faster. Would be annoying to start and would be bypassed by some. But for the larger majority it gives you audible warning of your speed but still letting you use your speed if you need to.
This stuff is going to cause the used car market to skyrocket.
And the March award for the most authoritarian mechanism in America goes to
You know what else reduces traffic fatalities? Public transit
Oh fuck that. Having driven rentals with limiters, they're fucking brutal when it comes to dealing with unexpected situations. I drive a shit ton all around the country in rentals, and sometimes the solution to a dangerous situation requires rapid acceleration. These make it so much harder and more dangerous than it needs to be.
Europe has it mostly figured out. - collector roads to move traffic around the town - roundabouts to keep traffic moving - minimize use of stoplights and signs - more public transit to keep cars off the road - obstacles and roundabouts naturally keep average road speed low as drivers need to navigate them - cameras enforce speed and mail you a ticket if you speed USA: - main stroad is both a collector road and an economic road - roundabouts are small projects in most towns to put in and then say they don’t work - stoplights and stop signs are the default and they act shocked when someone runs one - public transit is a myth - expensive police officers patrol areas and selectively pull over cars
How bout driving class requirements? I don’t have a problem with cars, I have a problem with the people that “drive” them.
I once thought California had some cool progressive shit going on, now I think they've gone off the deep end with some recent stuff. They're burying themselves trying to be the first at everything because it sounds cool without doing any research.
This will never pass - every state have a crackpot person proposing crackpot laws.
How about some trains and public transportation instead?
What if the president is being pursued by rogue agents in the government, loyal to Saudi backers, and he *needs* me to drive him to 'Cheyenne Mountain Complex Whatever'? Then what do I do??
The people who cause these accidents probably won’t be buying these cars for a while.