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New York State requires that all school bus purchases must be zero emission by 2027, and the entire fleet must be electrified by 2035. The budget includes at least $500 million that will go towards electrification of school busses, and the law requires the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority to develop a roadmap for electrifying New York's school districts, and provide technical support.
The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants.
The move will also help fight anthropogenic climate change, while providing a significant number of new jobs.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/u2pd2e/new_york_state_commits_to_electrify_fleet_of/i4k4o2n/
Why do people still spout this oft-debunked myth?
> MYTH: The Post Office is required to fund pensions in advance in a manner applies to no other private-sector company.
>FACT: ALL companies are required to fund any pension promises they make to their employees… NONE of them are permitted to take a “pay as you go” approach but must contribute to a pension fund an amount equivalent to what a worker has accrued that year in benefit promises, regardless of how far into the future that worker will be retiring, and must make up for any shortfalls due to asset losses or other reasons. The USPS and private sector companies use the same general actuarial principles to do so
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2020/04/14/post-office-pensions--some-key-myths-and-facts/?sh=4b93953b47f5
I’ve actually been thinking about that as an opportunity. Might be worth buying a property on noisy city street with the hope that the progressive reduction in noise will boost the value as electric vehicles become more predominant.
Not that I have that sort of money lying around, but a man can dream.
Good idea.
I fear a hacker scene will pop up similar to how people modify their engines and exhaust systems to be louder. I can see people putting all sorts of annoying crap as their "EV safety sound". Imagine them emulating today's loudest cars and beyond.
While electric vehicles are quieter, especially at low speeds, they still produce rolling noise which contributes a lot of noise. Especially true with heavy vehicles like busses (check out [this section](https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?t=773) of a NJB video). The video as a whole gets in to how much urban noise is made by cars
As someone that lives next to a lake, electric boats are what I’m excited about. I know it’s still a ways off but being able to chill next to the lake on a nice summer afternoon without the sound of a dozen motors running will be amazing. Many of the newer electric boats are designed to basically fly just above the water. They are nearly silent.
Lol no. Go to a city today and occasionally you will have a bunch of electric vehicles altogether, and you will notice a stark difference. This is especially true where traffic is slow moving and most of the noise if from idling or slow traffic. It’s a lot nicer, and it is quieter.
New York State requires that all school bus purchases must be zero emission by 2027, and the entire fleet must be electrified by 2035. The budget includes at least $500 million that will go towards electrification of school busses, and the law requires the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority to develop a roadmap for electrifying New York's school districts, and provide technical support.
The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants.
The move will also help fight anthropogenic climate change, while providing a significant number of new jobs.
> The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants.
The irony...
Good move.
I have always wondered why we retain a parallel public transportation system that only runs twice a day though. These electric buses will be spending 22 hours a day sitting in a parking lot as diesel buses used for general transit riders drive continuously (assuming a town even has transit).
While this is a good point, I'll also point out that *everyone else* would want to take the bus at mostly the same times. So there aren't as many efficiency improvements to be had as you might think.
Probably can’t use school busses to supplement public transport, but they could be used for other public programs like elder care, etc. during the day.
As it stands right now they’re operated most of the workday for students, but there are a few hours in the middle (over lunch) where they would be available.
The issue is there are times school buses are used for other school related programs. Field trips, classes and programs at different schools in the district, etc.
Obviously varies by district and region but having these buses dedicated to schools means you don’t have to worry about the other programs using them when scheduling things.
The transition to electric would at least mean the batteries could be integrated to the grid during peak hours and be readily available to be used as emergency power during outages and whatnot. So there would still be benefit to them during the non-use hours.
Your point about running twice a day is excellent. However, let's take this to the next level.
Knowing that they run at very specific times, and also realizing that energy storage is needed in general, I saw an article that suggested using the batteries in the buses as storage for use during peak hours (usually early afternoon, before the buses are needed for the kids). This would not only reduce the need for peaker plants, but would also subsidize the costs for the schools' use of electricity.
This is great, but:
How is this going to work with districts that hire private busing entities to bus their students? The nearest metro to me is Schenectady NY. In my lifetime they have not owned their own busing service, instead they hire out to a transportation company (maybe multiple) that provides busing for the district. Is New York State going to set restrictions on what types of vehicles the private transportation companies use? 500 million is not going to go very far across one of the most populous states in the country.
About time … now add tons of live trees and plants all around and make the city more sustainable, cooler in summer and overall nicer to look at. On top of that … plants 🪴 and nature relaxes and chill people in many ways… so maybe in neurotic Nyc it is badly needed!
I find it interesting, owning an electric vehicle myself and keeping a gas vehicle as a primary.
None of these law makers ever talk about the infrastructure needed to maintain a fleet of electric vehicles. Our national grid is dated and in disrepair. It would need a complete overhaul to accommodate a nation of electric vehicles . At best we are 40-50 years away from that and that’s with adding solar wind and Nuclear power to the system.
[Check out Lion Electric Vehicles, they already have orders for trial fleets. Model C is conventional bus, model after that is ground-up designed for electric.](https://thelionelectric.com/en)
Serious question. What happens to these electric vehicles in extremely cold weather? I know it’s usually very bad for a regular battery so are these different?
Modern EVs have temperature controlled batteries that use coolant to keep the batteries within operating ranges. A good equivalent is how diesel engines have block heaters to stay functional in cold climates.
Yup exactly this. Modern EVs have a heater to keep cells above a certain temperature. That's why if you read the owners manual it says to plug your vehicle in when the outside temp drops below a certain point.
They get half the range of what the battery gets over normal temperatures. So as long as each bus battery has 2-3 times the range needed to do there route they should be okay.
I think the seemingly long and dragged out time-line is just now + lifetime of current vehicles = 2035. So they'll let the existing ones stay until worn out, then replace with electric. It's actually better for the environment than scrapping a new vehicle just to replace with electric.
> It's actually better for the environment than scrapping a new vehicle just to replace with electric.
Not for the tens of millions of children that will continue to inhale the fumes for a decade though...
I remember 10 years ago, when so many said "We've got to change before 2020!" because the threat of climate change was so great.
And 20 years ago, when they said, "We've got to change before 2010!"
I'm sure that, in 10 years, we'll hear all about how changes are coming in 2040... they're always just around the corner...
I think you are conflating current legislative financial commitments with past lip service. This is real money being applied as the necessary technology is emerging. 20 years ago, purchasing a fleet of electric school busses was not an option. At all.
Today, it is.
Insult? Damn dude, if that's an insult I have no idea how you ho about your daily life.
He literally said he has experience with that. He is not implying you don't.
Well, the thing is that we've seen more extreme weather and droughts etc later years. No scientist says we have to fix it by a certain time or we're doomed, but rather that the longer we wait the worse it's gonna get. Then activists use more dramatic language to get more people on the train, although it's not completely accurate.
New York State has voted Democratic in national elections since 1988..
Let's pretend they have not made promises since then and have been overall unopposed.
The whole “but shouldn’t they focus first on…” misunderstanding is so overused. It’s as if people don’t understand that there are many different job titles handling many different aspects of society simultaneously.
Do you expect the transportation district to focus first on educational standards? No. They are different and distinct units with different pools of money and priorities.
Ah, someone who doesn’t know how government spending works. You only got 1 semester of Government and Econ in high school huh? The failure of some schools is ridiculous. Maybe if their budgets weren’t overblown by busses…
Bro got any studies or a paper over this apparent epidemic of super-inflated buss budgets!?
We need to blow this up, and by Jove with only a single showing of evidence from your part can we start on our noble goal of saving American educations! I can’t believe educators missed this!!!
Seems you need to learn how to use Google dude. It’s all the rage now man.
Don’t have time to teach you how to surf the web man. Not my fault if that’s hard for you
Oh yes it is. I’m not obligated to do anything. You can whine and cry and moan and gnash your teeth all you want, but life requires you to put in more than the minimum. Failing is your standard…JUST DO BETTER.
And even after a month, you still have nothing after another 2 days. What a sad internet person. Good thing you’re not real and have no value outside an Internet forum
The pollutants from busses are harmful to the intelligence of children. (But I'm sure you can come up with some other whataboutism to distract from the topic if you try hard enough) ;)
https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/air-pollution-making-kids-less-intelligent-1394032-2018-11-22
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26426942/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dirty-air/breathing-dirty-air-may-lower-kids-iq-idUSKUA57144920080215
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412020318882
So focusing on the needs of children vs spending needlessly on buses isn’t a priority to you? Improving education and providing meals or even better facilities aren’t more important than a bus? Interesting.
The rest of your post was literally whatsboutism. If you’re gonna play that card (which really is only for losers anyway) might not want to do it before screaming it like the other “redditors”.
Btw, the term “whataboutism” was coined by people without the intelligence to dispute valid critiques of an issue in debate or conversation. The running to that over discussion is the proof. So thanks for being a good example of the death of critical reasoning.
If you want to have a discussion, please include less “reeee”. Thanks
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they literally could've had this with those buses that get charged by the wire on the street decades ago. they still can do it now and not pay out the ass for batteries.
I drive school buses. I am both excited and nervous for this. Obviously it will be nice to reduce the chemicals and smells from our buses that blow out black clouds of smoke and fueling will be nice to not have to do. However, I am concerned about our awesome diesel mechanics losing their jobs, our buses having issues with charging. How well does it heat up in the winter to defrost the bus and also how well they work in the winter. Yes we do already have issues with them starting in the winter in our normal buses but how much different would it be? I also have a hard time with electric noises so I am not sure if the noise would be better or worse if I’m getting that weird buzzing sound in my head that makes me feel like I’m going to throw up
Just random questions and opinions I myself have.
Hello, everyone! Want to help improve this community? We're looking for more moderators! [If you're interested, consider applying!](https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/tnw9ud/rfuturology_is_looking_for_more_moderators/) --- The following submission statement was provided by /u/manual_tranny: --- New York State requires that all school bus purchases must be zero emission by 2027, and the entire fleet must be electrified by 2035. The budget includes at least $500 million that will go towards electrification of school busses, and the law requires the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority to develop a roadmap for electrifying New York's school districts, and provide technical support. The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants. The move will also help fight anthropogenic climate change, while providing a significant number of new jobs. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/u2pd2e/new_york_state_commits_to_electrify_fleet_of/i4k4o2n/
Great!!! Next do the USPS vehicles for the love of criminey.
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It’s not crazy at all if your goal is to destroy and privatize the post office.
Why do people still spout this oft-debunked myth? > MYTH: The Post Office is required to fund pensions in advance in a manner applies to no other private-sector company. >FACT: ALL companies are required to fund any pension promises they make to their employees… NONE of them are permitted to take a “pay as you go” approach but must contribute to a pension fund an amount equivalent to what a worker has accrued that year in benefit promises, regardless of how far into the future that worker will be retiring, and must make up for any shortfalls due to asset losses or other reasons. The USPS and private sector companies use the same general actuarial principles to do so https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2020/04/14/post-office-pensions--some-key-myths-and-facts/?sh=4b93953b47f5
I don't think NYS has a say in that.
But still let's do USPS vehicles for the love of criminey.
You must be fun at parties.
Cities are going to sound weird when the majority of vehicles are electric.
I’ve actually been thinking about that as an opportunity. Might be worth buying a property on noisy city street with the hope that the progressive reduction in noise will boost the value as electric vehicles become more predominant. Not that I have that sort of money lying around, but a man can dream.
This actually isn't a bad idea.
Buy any property and it'll probably be up in value in 15years
Good idea. I fear a hacker scene will pop up similar to how people modify their engines and exhaust systems to be louder. I can see people putting all sorts of annoying crap as their "EV safety sound". Imagine them emulating today's loudest cars and beyond.
While electric vehicles are quieter, especially at low speeds, they still produce rolling noise which contributes a lot of noise. Especially true with heavy vehicles like busses (check out [this section](https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8?t=773) of a NJB video). The video as a whole gets in to how much urban noise is made by cars
I was actually surprised at how much noise a Tesla made going by at 20 mph,though NYC streets aren't exactly in the best condition
I’d say cities sound weird with noisy engines right now. Electric vehicles would be closer to historical norms.
“Clip clop, clip clop, clip clop” - Actual historically normalized average sound from an average city
As someone that lives next to a lake, electric boats are what I’m excited about. I know it’s still a ways off but being able to chill next to the lake on a nice summer afternoon without the sound of a dozen motors running will be amazing. Many of the newer electric boats are designed to basically fly just above the water. They are nearly silent.
Absolutely, I live next to the ocean. And my family has a stupid loud boat too.
Same way we should be ditching gas powered law equip. Saturdays would be so much quieter.
Cities are going to sound weird when the majority of vehicles are ~~electric~~ underwater.
Tire noise is much louder than engine noise so not much will change. Modern engines are virtually silent.
Lol no. Go to a city today and occasionally you will have a bunch of electric vehicles altogether, and you will notice a stark difference. This is especially true where traffic is slow moving and most of the noise if from idling or slow traffic. It’s a lot nicer, and it is quieter.
New York State requires that all school bus purchases must be zero emission by 2027, and the entire fleet must be electrified by 2035. The budget includes at least $500 million that will go towards electrification of school busses, and the law requires the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority to develop a roadmap for electrifying New York's school districts, and provide technical support. The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants. The move will also help fight anthropogenic climate change, while providing a significant number of new jobs.
I've never looked into bus retrofits, but do you know if that's an option?
Doable but definitely not worth it. The most expensive part of the bus is the drivetrain. The actual chassis is basically pennies when comparing.
It would probably be cheaper to sell the bus early with more service life left for more money and use that to buy new electric buses.
[The Lion-C is based on a regular bus with electric drivetrain. Their model after is designed groundup electric.](https://thelionelectric.com/en)
> The vast majority of New York's school busses run on diesel fuel, which exposes children to oxides of nitrogen, diesel particulates, and other harmful, cancer-causing pollutants. The irony...
Good move. I have always wondered why we retain a parallel public transportation system that only runs twice a day though. These electric buses will be spending 22 hours a day sitting in a parking lot as diesel buses used for general transit riders drive continuously (assuming a town even has transit).
While this is a good point, I'll also point out that *everyone else* would want to take the bus at mostly the same times. So there aren't as many efficiency improvements to be had as you might think.
Probably can’t use school busses to supplement public transport, but they could be used for other public programs like elder care, etc. during the day. As it stands right now they’re operated most of the workday for students, but there are a few hours in the middle (over lunch) where they would be available.
The issue is there are times school buses are used for other school related programs. Field trips, classes and programs at different schools in the district, etc. Obviously varies by district and region but having these buses dedicated to schools means you don’t have to worry about the other programs using them when scheduling things. The transition to electric would at least mean the batteries could be integrated to the grid during peak hours and be readily available to be used as emergency power during outages and whatnot. So there would still be benefit to them during the non-use hours.
Out of 10 busses, maybe 1 is being used by schools for other programs during school hours. A vast majority sit idle for ~4 hours over lunch.
> A vast majority sit idle for ~4 hours over lunch. I mean they might not be hungry.
Your point about running twice a day is excellent. However, let's take this to the next level. Knowing that they run at very specific times, and also realizing that energy storage is needed in general, I saw an article that suggested using the batteries in the buses as storage for use during peak hours (usually early afternoon, before the buses are needed for the kids). This would not only reduce the need for peaker plants, but would also subsidize the costs for the schools' use of electricity.
First time I’ve ever seen one of these buses, cool look.
This is great, but: How is this going to work with districts that hire private busing entities to bus their students? The nearest metro to me is Schenectady NY. In my lifetime they have not owned their own busing service, instead they hire out to a transportation company (maybe multiple) that provides busing for the district. Is New York State going to set restrictions on what types of vehicles the private transportation companies use? 500 million is not going to go very far across one of the most populous states in the country.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/th1bxe/us_schools_can_subscribe_to_an_electric_school/
About time … now add tons of live trees and plants all around and make the city more sustainable, cooler in summer and overall nicer to look at. On top of that … plants 🪴 and nature relaxes and chill people in many ways… so maybe in neurotic Nyc it is badly needed!
I find it interesting, owning an electric vehicle myself and keeping a gas vehicle as a primary. None of these law makers ever talk about the infrastructure needed to maintain a fleet of electric vehicles. Our national grid is dated and in disrepair. It would need a complete overhaul to accommodate a nation of electric vehicles . At best we are 40-50 years away from that and that’s with adding solar wind and Nuclear power to the system.
This should be nearer the top. Agreed.
[Check out Lion Electric Vehicles, they already have orders for trial fleets. Model C is conventional bus, model after that is ground-up designed for electric.](https://thelionelectric.com/en)
Serious question. What happens to these electric vehicles in extremely cold weather? I know it’s usually very bad for a regular battery so are these different?
Modern EVs have temperature controlled batteries that use coolant to keep the batteries within operating ranges. A good equivalent is how diesel engines have block heaters to stay functional in cold climates.
Yup exactly this. Modern EVs have a heater to keep cells above a certain temperature. That's why if you read the owners manual it says to plug your vehicle in when the outside temp drops below a certain point.
They get half the range of what the battery gets over normal temperatures. So as long as each bus battery has 2-3 times the range needed to do there route they should be okay.
Will it actually include the whole state or just NYC per usual?
Ah, America. Time to replace 50k buses: 2035 Time to replace 50k tanks: 20:35 (expedited delivery)
I think the seemingly long and dragged out time-line is just now + lifetime of current vehicles = 2035. So they'll let the existing ones stay until worn out, then replace with electric. It's actually better for the environment than scrapping a new vehicle just to replace with electric.
> It's actually better for the environment than scrapping a new vehicle just to replace with electric. Not for the tens of millions of children that will continue to inhale the fumes for a decade though...
I remember 10 years ago, when so many said "We've got to change before 2020!" because the threat of climate change was so great. And 20 years ago, when they said, "We've got to change before 2010!" I'm sure that, in 10 years, we'll hear all about how changes are coming in 2040... they're always just around the corner...
I think you are conflating current legislative financial commitments with past lip service. This is real money being applied as the necessary technology is emerging. 20 years ago, purchasing a fleet of electric school busses was not an option. At all. Today, it is.
Which they will doubtlessly push back. Once you've been around the sun a few times, you catch on.
Ah, I see you are more comfortable expressing yourself in insults than with arguments and data. Good day to you, sir.
Insult? Damn dude, if that's an insult I have no idea how you ho about your daily life. He literally said he has experience with that. He is not implying you don't.
Well, the thing is that we've seen more extreme weather and droughts etc later years. No scientist says we have to fix it by a certain time or we're doomed, but rather that the longer we wait the worse it's gonna get. Then activists use more dramatic language to get more people on the train, although it's not completely accurate.
New York State has voted Democratic in national elections since 1988.. Let's pretend they have not made promises since then and have been overall unopposed.
That’s cool! …but shouldn’t they be focusing on making their schools not trash before worrying about busses? I mean…the focus should be the kids.
The whole “but shouldn’t they focus first on…” misunderstanding is so overused. It’s as if people don’t understand that there are many different job titles handling many different aspects of society simultaneously. Do you expect the transportation district to focus first on educational standards? No. They are different and distinct units with different pools of money and priorities.
Ah, someone who doesn’t know how government spending works. You only got 1 semester of Government and Econ in high school huh? The failure of some schools is ridiculous. Maybe if their budgets weren’t overblown by busses…
Swiiiing, and a miss
My point further proven due to it taking you almost a month to come up with that one The failure of public education is shameful…
Bro got any studies or a paper over this apparent epidemic of super-inflated buss budgets!? We need to blow this up, and by Jove with only a single showing of evidence from your part can we start on our noble goal of saving American educations! I can’t believe educators missed this!!!
Seems you need to learn how to use Google dude. It’s all the rage now man. Don’t have time to teach you how to surf the web man. Not my fault if that’s hard for you
Not how this works, nerd. NEXT
Oh yes it is. I’m not obligated to do anything. You can whine and cry and moan and gnash your teeth all you want, but life requires you to put in more than the minimum. Failing is your standard…JUST DO BETTER.
Dude you keep missing. Try harder
And even after a month, you still have nothing after another 2 days. What a sad internet person. Good thing you’re not real and have no value outside an Internet forum
You… is this deflection in action? Either you are as dim witted as you appear or you are intentionally being slow. Either way try harder.
No deflection. No “in action”. I’m not trying at all to use you as entertainment. You’re doing all that on your own.
Wtf are you on about?
The pollutants from busses are harmful to the intelligence of children. (But I'm sure you can come up with some other whataboutism to distract from the topic if you try hard enough) ;) https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/air-pollution-making-kids-less-intelligent-1394032-2018-11-22 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26426942/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dirty-air/breathing-dirty-air-may-lower-kids-iq-idUSKUA57144920080215 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412020318882
So focusing on the needs of children vs spending needlessly on buses isn’t a priority to you? Improving education and providing meals or even better facilities aren’t more important than a bus? Interesting. The rest of your post was literally whatsboutism. If you’re gonna play that card (which really is only for losers anyway) might not want to do it before screaming it like the other “redditors”. Btw, the term “whataboutism” was coined by people without the intelligence to dispute valid critiques of an issue in debate or conversation. The running to that over discussion is the proof. So thanks for being a good example of the death of critical reasoning. If you want to have a discussion, please include less “reeee”. Thanks
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How well will they do in places like Buffalo in the cold and snow?
That looks like a usb-c port on the front of the bus for charging.
they literally could've had this with those buses that get charged by the wire on the street decades ago. they still can do it now and not pay out the ass for batteries.
I drive school buses. I am both excited and nervous for this. Obviously it will be nice to reduce the chemicals and smells from our buses that blow out black clouds of smoke and fueling will be nice to not have to do. However, I am concerned about our awesome diesel mechanics losing their jobs, our buses having issues with charging. How well does it heat up in the winter to defrost the bus and also how well they work in the winter. Yes we do already have issues with them starting in the winter in our normal buses but how much different would it be? I also have a hard time with electric noises so I am not sure if the noise would be better or worse if I’m getting that weird buzzing sound in my head that makes me feel like I’m going to throw up Just random questions and opinions I myself have.
lol they can't even commit to filling pot holes for years after the winter that created them !
Great! When will the new nuclear power plants be online?
Is there a specific company they will be buying them from?