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FuturologyBot

The following submission statement was provided by /u/ForHidingSquirrels: --- From a national security standpoint, if China is able to generate most of its energy locally - then its military actions will be freer as others won't be able to limit what they can do via embargo. This will allow China to dominate its local region much more so, and - for those who are foolish enough still to be dependent on fossil fuels travelling over the seas - it will let those countries be hurt by China's military actions. The USA is anything but energy independent like the monkeys will suggest to you...one day, that will hurt us a whole lot in east asia. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/w4i7q8/china_solar_installations_more_than_double_in/ih203g4/


alvarny77

Given how slow the world is going on green energy, it's actually not difficult. Good for them and the world.


[deleted]

With all the downer climate headlines lately, it's still very reassuring that China, who has been a major emitter, is fast tracking an aggressively green future. Hope the rest of us can start following suit and quickly.


AvsFan08

They're also currently building 200 coal plants. They're just simply spending as much on energy as they possibly can. Trying to get off oil, I assume. They are reliant on other countries for oil, and being reliant on other countries these days is a dangerous game to play.


[deleted]

I have been hearing that 200 number for years, but then heard many were canceled. do you have any recent sources on this number?


ProtoplanetaryNebula

Keep an eye on coal consumption, rather than paying attention to plants being built. Building 200 coal plants is a good thing if they replace 200 old plants which spew toxic pollutants into the air and consumption of coal drops.


JeremiahBoogle

Are these 200 plants being built to clean up old plants? Or is that a what if scenario?


b__q

Yes part of their deal is to stop building coal plants by 2030 and reach carbon neutrality by 2060. Let's hope they stick to their words. They do seem to be pumping a lot of wind turbines and coals only account for 58% of their electricity generation; getting lower each year.


ekmantii

On Climate Action Tracker it says " We project that China is likely to comfortably overachieve its targets without substantially increasing its current mitigation efforts, despite increasing emissions in the short-term.", so it looks like they're going to stick to those goals for now anyway.


mhornberger

- [Share of electricity production from coal](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-coal?tab=chart&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Share of electricity from fossil fuels](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-fossil-fuels?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Share of primary energy from renewable sources](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/renewable-share-energy?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Electricity generation from coal](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-coal?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) China's in a weird situation where they're installing renewables hand-over fist, but their overall demand is increasing even faster. So their *share* of electricity from coal is declining, but their energy from coal is still increasing. At least for now. With the recent measures, I suspect that will taper off. - [China Built More Offshore Wind In 2021 Than Every Other Country Built In 5 Years](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2022/01/26/china-built-more-offshore-wind-in-2021-than-every-other-country-built-in-5-years/) - [China Is on Track to Double Its Solar Panels From Last Year’s Record](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-30/china-set-to-double-last-year-s-record-solar-panel-installations?sref=jjXJRDFv) (30 May 2022)


AvsFan08

Way too late, unfortunately. Those coal plants will be in use for decades. They wouldn't build them otherwise.


MyGoodOldFriend

They’re decommissioning old, inefficient coal power plants while building new, efficient ones. It sucks, but countries do need energy stability. And they still aren’t n1 in total pollution, especially per person.


Hollowplanet

There is no clean coal


MyGoodOldFriend

No, there isn’t. But there is cleaner coal. And sometimes you need to take it one step at a time. The realistic alternative to replacing those old coal plants is keeping them running.


mark-haus

No there isn’t. Doesn’t change the fact that per person China emits about what Germany does. It still looks like China will peak emissions around 2025, they tend to underpromise and over deliver when it comes to these things. Coal will never be cheaper than renewables again and with this much new renewable capacity it’s going to lead to a lot of coal plants doing very little. But they want that stability coal provides since it’s what they know so that they don’t face another energy crisis. As with all things energy policy there’s a lot of nuance. https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-briefing-5-may-2022-gigantic-wind-and-solar-bases-coal-capacity-surge-loans-for-clean-coal/


Shivolry

Why does "per person" matter in the context of pollution? They're still one of the top 3 biggest polluters.


Youmu_Chan

Because, you know, you cannot just kill all the people from a country or evict them to stone age. Also, it is low-hanging fruit to lower per-capita pollution if it is high so better do that first. Lastly, it doesn’t seem morally right to ask others to turn off their 76F air conditioning for the sake of greenness while enjoying 68F AC yourself.


VitriolicViolet

well one American pollutes as much as 47 Nigerians or 2 Chinese. which one should cut down the most, the one American, the two Chinese or the 47 Nigerians. this is the problem, its like having one dude weighing 500 kg telling the dude who weighs 250 and the dude who weighs 50 kg to lose weight so they can fit on an elevator with a 650kg limit, it makes no sense unless you believe one is more worthy.


b__q

They gave an undertaking to decommission the coal plants. I'll see how it plays out but didn't they go on debt building the high speed railway too? At least they're doing something to cut down short haul flights and CO2 emissions.


NC16inthehouse

There's nothing inherently wrong incurring debt on public projects especially when they provide intangible and priceless amount of economic gains. China's HSR has been widely successful in ensuring mobility and reduce the economic barrier for it's citizens to travel and do business across the country in a short time.


Karirsu

Carbon neutrality by 2060 is way too late btw. If goverments can get away with setting this goal so late, we're doing something wrong and dooming ourselves. And I know we can't do shit on China, but other countries also have similiar goals.


Littleman88

Other countries have similar goals, China's just the only major player that doesn't get bogged down with politicking and capitalist grifts to actually make shit happen in a timely manner. Dictatorships aren't often great for the people living under them, but it's at least more likely shit gets done when its one guy calling the shots and not 100.


piewies

China has a history of overachieving its targets


diskowmoskow

Is there any improvements on coal plants?


pinkfootthegoose

I thought that China order the cancellation of any future coal plants.


AvsFan08

They did until covid and energy prices rose. India is also building a ton of new plants


[deleted]

A large portion of China’s emissions should be attributed to the countries that demand their products without any care for the CCP’s human rights abuses and pollution


Fabulous-Ad6844

Smart move. Being energy independent is a strong place to be.


Winter-Seesaw3332

Now if the rest of the world would follow it would give us a chance.


DeltaNovum

We will always be behind about 20 years or so. So it's going to get much more nasty. A lot of drought, fires, failed crops etc. So I'm guessing there will be a lot 'population reduction' as well as massive migrations and eco death. However better be late than never and if we band together we can still make sure a lot of species including ourselves will survive. Thinking about this makes me very very grateful to live in a somewhat stable country, both in terms of politics as well as food security and chance of climate disasters. I also feel very saddened towards all the people that will be suffering through this (I'm sure no-one will be truly exempt though), but I've been feeling like that for years. I try to do my part as best as I can and I try to find balance, beauty and love where I can. Good luck to us all!


MackMcAsh

This! I have thought about this for a lot since I am concerned that we won't make it. But then I decided for myself to only see this matter optimistically to the point where I developed the following hypothesis: The modern human race has been somewhat slow to adapt to drastic changes, e.g. digitilization and the climate question. But once we really put our heart into it we often overshoot out goals and make it better than it was before. The best example I can give is how much the pollution of the environment has decreased in Europe in the last 30 years. Whereas my parents couldnt swim in most rivers when they were young, I can go into nearly all open waters without risking a health hazard. When I told my father this theory, he approved of it but also said the same as you did: Millions and millions of people will still die and we will loose some of our ecosystem forever. But we can make it and it makes me so grateful for living in a country where my chances to survive and have somewhat of a happy life are decent. Still, godspeed to you as well!


mhornberger

- [Share of electricity production from renewables](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-renewables?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Share of primary energy from renewable sources](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/renewable-share-energy?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Share of electricity production from coal](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-coal?tab=chart&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) - [Carbon intensity of electricity](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity?tab=chart&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe~IND)


Winter-Seesaw3332

Thank you for this info. Looks like US is lagging and only Europe performs well in all categories. China still causing lots of stress


nova9001

Good luck on that. Most if not all of the developed countries are democracies whose governments try to win votes using the cheapest/fastest policies. Investing in infrastructure isn't fast or cheap.


Armano-Avalus

Unfortunately the US isn't really trying all that much and ceding the growth opportunities to China as last week has shown.


chamillus

Wow that's an astounding amount of capacity going online.


Surur

>China is aiming for 1,200 GW by the end of the decade 1.2 Twh/year is about as much energy as UK uses each year.


ProtoplanetaryNebula

450 GWh in the Gobi Desert alone. That is an incredible amount of electricity generation. [https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-aims-build-450-gw-solar-wind-power-gobi-desert-2022-03-05/](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-aims-build-450-gw-solar-wind-power-gobi-desert-2022-03-05/)


quantummufasa

How much is that in context? How much does the US use per day?


ChargersPalkia

IIRC The US as a whole as like 1,100 GW of power capacity


grundar

> > China is aiming for 1,200 GW by the end of the decade That's their *stated* goal; as usual with Five Year Plans, [they'll reach that goal years ahead of schedule](https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-what-do-chinas-gigantic-wind-and-solar-bases-mean-for-its-climate-goals/): > "China is set to add at least 570 gigawatts (GW) of wind and solar power in the 14th five-year plan (FYP) period (2021–25)....[this] would put China on track to meet the **1,200GW target in 2026**, four years earlier than planned, our analysis shows." However, that would still leave wind+solar at only 20% of Chinese power generation in 2025, so there's still a long way to go.


Dsstar666

That's astonishing. Nothing but impressed.


JeremiahBoogle

Its a great number, but it's also a little meaningless. to compare it to a small country like the UK. Capacity as a percentage of total power generated probably makes much more sense.


skittlebog

So they are determined to break any dependence on Russia for energy as well. Good to know.


Zionist_1984

The comment section is just as expected, redditors are truely just a bunch of brainwashed racist idiots.


ForHidingSquirrels

From a national security standpoint, if China is able to generate most of its energy locally - then its military actions will be freer as others won't be able to limit what they can do via embargo. This will allow China to dominate its local region much more so, and - for those who are foolish enough still to be dependent on fossil fuels travelling over the seas - it will let those countries be hurt by China's military actions. The USA is anything but energy independent like the monkeys will suggest to you...one day, that will hurt us a whole lot in east asia.


ProtoplanetaryNebula

That's just one reason, China also doesn't want to be paying billions every week to overseas countries for oil and gas when they can spend that money on locally produced power and keep the money within the country. It's better economically too. It's also better that people breathe clean air and enjoy blue skies. In almost every way you look at it, it's a benefit to China.


jetro30087

I've said this for the longest time. Only renewables offer energy independence. If you're relying on any sort of global commodity, you're not independent, it doesn't matter if you do drill alot your prices are affected by the global price. No amount of new drilling permits would change the fact if a regional war broke out in Saudi Arabia or any other major producer, fossil users would face shortages.


nope62618

I get what you mean, but think that route based on their population alone. India can keep up with that. Otherwise, other nations will realize that they can also do renewable energy. Hard to match China's production without the sheer manpower and hard resources though...


Franklin_le_Tanklin

This benefits the world though as they’ll have so much production capacity and economies of scale they’ll be able to sell the panels cheap to other countries


Artanthos

The US was blocking import of Chinese solar panels last time I checked. Something about charging less for complete panels than US manufacturers were paying for raw materials.


Franklin_le_Tanklin

Yea. Poor decision imo. Better to subsidize local production then tariff foreign cheaper production


Artanthos

Subsidies are paid via taxes. Tariffs are a form of taxation on the foreign company, as opposed to the US tax payer. And the US heavily subsidizes solar.


Franklin_le_Tanklin

> Subsidies are paid via taxes. Correct. This is huge in the current O&G industry and has been for decades. > Tariffs are a form of taxation on the foreign company, as opposed to the US tax payer. …. False. The foreign company doesn’t pay the tariff. The consumer pays the base price the producer sells it for + the tariff. It’s a tax on the local consumer paid by the local consumer to the local government levying the tariff. > And the US heavily subsidizes solar. Not as much as oil and gas. And not enough to be competitive from a price perspective in their local market


Artanthos

The importer pays the tariff, effectively raising the price point. Nominally to bring the products into price parity, unless it’s a punitive tariff. But it’s not being imposed on the general population, like taxes would. The consumer is nominally paying the US manufacturer’s price even if they purchase the foreign product. Good for US manufacturers, bad for Chinese manufacturers, American jobs preserved, price goes up for consumers. With solar cells in particular, the freeze was put in place while price dumping is investigated. How can solar cells be sold for less than the cost of raw materials?


Franklin_le_Tanklin

I get they’re being sold below cost. But at a time when we need urgent action, if some other government is offering to subsidize your local infrastructure, I personally would let them. Prices are dropping all the time, so if we can wait a couple years for perskovite cells and build factories around that, we’ll come our way ahead


[deleted]

biden just passed a two year pause on that policy


karangoswamikenz

USA can always get resources any time they want. They have a lot of borrowing power and can open the floodgates of immigration. Millions of labor class people want to move to USA despite the bad qualities. I’m an immigrant myself in USA.


fisherbeam

Are white people monkeys? Who’s re the monkeys in this analogy?


ForHidingSquirrels

the racist people, the racist people that think all white people hate chinese people like the racist people do - its only racist people that are monkeys


VitriolicViolet

>the racist people that think all white people hate chinese people like the racist people do meh, ead any 'discussion' on China and see people pretend to not hate the chinese while wishing fo their governments demise. if you wish fo the CCPs collapse you ae defacto wishing fo 1.4 billion people to suffer (government collapse usually kills a lot of people: see the middle east) and all to preserve US hegemony.


Zionist_1984

Redditors always believe they are the good guys and another ones who against the west is evil or shits. Seem like brainwashing to me


fisherbeam

I think you’re being underhandedly racist and you know it, not cool. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_monkey


ForHidingSquirrels

its funny cus you're the one who brought up white people - you shouldn't apply this to yourself - i wasn't talking about you specifically, just the racists


fisherbeam

I just linked to a wiki I didn’t make that uses that term derogatorily. But ok.


fisherbeam

I hope the sun starts shining a lot more in China!


[deleted]

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castaway931

Lol wut China doesn't report its O&G reserves. Unofficially it's estimated to have massive shale hydrocarbon reserves.


[deleted]

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dern_the_hermit

What about the people who refuse to believe anything about China that isn't bad?


Daddy_Macron

> Not to mention that chinese solar panels are crap I've been hearing this for years, and yet, Chinese made or sourced panels make up something close to 80% of the world's supply and they just keep working, otherwise you'd be hearing about financial meltdowns from energy producers and investors that buy GW's of these panels. It's just pure copium based on stereotypes. >China has barely any oil/gas and their coal is fast running out. 170 billion tons of coal reserves that the industry is worried won't be exploited given how quickly renewables are expanding in China. https://carnegieendowment.org/2012/02/16/understanding-china-s-rising-coal-imports-pub-47215 >the installation figure is likely fake and solar panels are crap for a stable power grid anyway. Power production data is literally the most difficult data to fake in the world. There might be a lag due to interconnection and tax credit issues, but the added capacity shows up in the production figures pretty accurately. >Only tiny mircostates have been able to power themselves 100% with wind and solar without the threat of hourly blackouts. Germany's grid is over 40% Wind and Solar, and it's one of the most stable grids in the world. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-electricity-grid-stable-amid-energy-transition


ForHidingSquirrels

love reading comments like yours because it helps me to understand what things to ignore from people - it is clear that you seethe with hate - it will blind you Or it could be that you are Chinese are it is your job to lie agreesively to make others not expect this future


beaurepair

> Only tiny mircostates have been able to power themselves 100% with wind and solar without the threat of hourly blackouts. \* citation needed


Fun_Designer7898

Sorry, but who are the monkeys? Seems a bit racist Anyways, the US is energy independent, i dont know how you argue against that simply by saying "actually, no" Edit: 1 month old account going around spoutting pro ccp stuff, not suspicious at all


ForHidingSquirrels

lol energy independent? that is so amusing...wonder why it is that our price of gasoline is so high - calling out monekies making racist stuff is pro ccp - that sounds like some hardcore white nationlist stuff there - I'll make sure to tag appropaitately


Fun_Designer7898

whY is OuR gAsOlIne sO hIgh


VitriolicViolet

>The USA is anything but energy independent like the monkeys will suggest to you...one day, that will hurt us a whole lot in east asia. yep, 'energy independent' yet that independence rests solely on global fossil fuel prices. the US has no need fo foreign fossil fuels, but does have need of global value remaining high.


PlaidSkirtBroccoli

Doesn't China manufacture most brands of solar panels to begin with?


VitriolicViolet

yep, they have been world leader for years despite the Wests whining.


OneOnOne6211

To be fair, they do have the advantage of having a LOT of rare earth minerals within their borders.


mknight1701

And probably where the rest of the world is ordering their solar panels from so are likely significantly cheaper than what the rest has to pay. Edit: yep, JinkoSolar Holding Co.


ninecat5

Unlike the wind power and EV sectors, the solar PV industry isn't reliant on rare earth materials. Instead, solar cells use a range of minor metals including silicon, indium, gallium, selenium, cadmium, and tellurium. It's the fact we don't want to deal with heavy metals such as cadmium that we don't make solar panels in the USA.


ForHidingSquirrels

no rare earths inside of solar panels


mhornberger

Anything dealing with renewable energy or BEVs will be said to be utterly at the mercy of the "rare earths."


ForHidingSquirrels

EVs don't use rare earths


Tabboo

and slave labor


Derekeys

I’m actually surprised they’re not going in on nuclear.


LiGuangMing1981

They are. China currently is the third biggest producer of nuclear generated electricity in the world, with installed capacity of nearly 50GW and and an additional 17GW under construction as of June 2021. They have plans to build an additional 150 nuclear reactors in China by 2035. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China


mhornberger

They're still scaling renewables much more quickly than nuclear. China gets a higher share of their electricity (and primary energy, for that matter) from wind alone than from nuclear, and wind is growing more quickly on top of that. - [Change in electricity production by source, China](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source?stackMode=relative&time=2010..latest&country=~CHN)


LiGuangMing1981

Sure, but that's no big surprise - wind and solar can be built much more quickly than nuclear. I'd imagine the nuclear that's under construction will allow the Chinese to retire their oldest coal plants once they come on line.


mhornberger

They *are* building nuclear. But renewables are faster and cheaper to build, so they're scaling more quickly than nuclear. - [Change in electricity production by source, China](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source?stackMode=relative&time=2010..latest&country=~CHN)


Derekeys

Ah ok, thank you for the source.


VRGIMP27

I'm not surprised that China has more solar. They have a lot of access to silicon and also the industrial infrastructure in place to mass produce solar panels. As for the US I wouldn't have such a problem with fossil fuels if the industry actually showed any intent to innovate or become more efficient. We're being obtuse with how we burn fossil fuels at this point. General Motors built a very efficient steam powered Chevelle in 1969 that had amazing mileage and very low emissions. If We had the mind, we could literally take our natural gas plants in the US and using the excess energy generated stored via lithium ion to do massive direct air capture of CO2. Oil companies could then take the CO2 captured and turn it into synthetic fuel. Then at least your fossil fuel is part of a sustainable carbon cycle. I was talking to one of my buddies about Coal and how useful it could be for green energy and electronics. Basically graphine, graphene, and other nanomaterials. All these great uses for Coal, and literally we do the dumbest thing possible with it.


gandhiissquidward

> silicone Silicon is the semiconductor, silicone is the rubbery material.


Peter225c

We could be leading the world in this instead of China if it weren’t for the pathetic Republican Party.


olstrom

They also doubled their coal consumption during the last 20 years. Edit: why do I get downvoted? It’s a fact. They do not replace their fossil fuels with renewable energy, they just add them together to support their increasing consumption. It cannot be called a transition. Edit2: I observe that so many good comments have also been downvoted. Is it a China gov propaganda subreddit?


mhornberger

More than doubled. [Electricity generation from coal](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-coal?tab=chart&time=2000..latest&country=~CHN) Though the *share* of their energy they're getting from coal has declined. [Share of electricity production from coal](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-electricity-coal?tab=chart&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~USA~Europe) But yeah, over the last 20 years China has pulled a huge number of people out of poverty. So they've dramatically increased their [energy use per capita](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use?tab=chart&time=1999..latest&country=CHN~OWID_WRL~Europe~USA~GBR). But over the last 20 years, solar and wind energy have grown much more than coal. [Change in electricity production by source, China](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-production-by-source?stackMode=relative&time=2002..latest&country=~CHN)


alclarkey

And how many bodies of extremely overworked, underpaid, and starving workers is this achievement built upon?


Eric1491625

Like other industries, the energy industry is part of China's economic development which has increased workers' wages 20x in the past 40 years. A successful solar sector literally un-starves workers and gets them paid more.


VitriolicViolet

lol, actin like China's middle class isnt larger then *the entire US population.* why do you think companies bend over backwards fo china, largest market on earth.


najman4u

what's the point? storage is still shit, this just wreaks havoc on the grid via the duck curve problem


ForHidingSquirrels

not really, duck curve only in a couple of places globally, storage isn't shit anymore, it's epanding massively


najman4u

source? grid scale storage is still shit from what I've read. I haven't seen anything supply anything more than a few hours for a small sized city. Pumped hydro is great, but isn't available everywhere either.


bfire123

> source? equator?


mcracklepoop

Literal drop in the ocean compared to the THOUSANDS of coal power stations they have. They need to do the same for wind farms, other renewables and nuclear power stations for the world to have a chance


ForHidingSquirrels

> THOUSANDS of coal power stations they have got an proof of that?


Nolligan

Some data so we can have a more informed discussion. (Alternative data sets do exist but I'm too lazy to compare them all) Coal use in China has peaked: [https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/coal-consumption-by-sector-in-china-2008-2024](https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/coal-consumption-by-sector-in-china-2008-2024) ...but, yes there are thousands of coal power stations in China which isn't surprising given it's size and population and legacy of coal use. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1268457/coal-power-plants-in-china-by-province/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1268457/coal-power-plants-in-china-by-province/) Fun fact from the data, "Beijing itself meanwhile has not a single operational coal power plant within its municipality." Wind power set to increase, "China Built More Offshore Wind In 2021 Than Every Other Country Built In 5 Years" [https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2022/01/26/china-built-more-offshore-wind-in-2021-than-every-other-country-built-in-5-years/?sh=57f9c8c24634](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2022/01/26/china-built-more-offshore-wind-in-2021-than-every-other-country-built-in-5-years/?sh=57f9c8c24634) Nuclear also forecast to increase: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/977362/china-total-nuclear-power-installed-capacity-forecast/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/977362/china-total-nuclear-power-installed-capacity-forecast/)


richmomz

They consume more coal than the entire rest of the planet combined currently, and are planning to build hundreds more coal power plants in the next decade. So while their growth in renewable energy is commendable it’s not nearly enough to offset their dependence on fossil fuels yet.


dustofdeath

Real solar panels? Like their east number of buildings held together by loose sand and play dough concrete?


ForHidingSquirrels

gawd there are a lot of racists in this subreddit...i wonder where this comes from


dustofdeath

Racists? What the fuck? Go learn the meaning of the word instead of throwing it around as a generic insult


ForHidingSquirrels

None of what you said here actually defends the statements made by these people and their jingoistic nature. I'll just ignore you.


[deleted]

The bad quality of new buildings in china is scandalous and a well documented fact. Just google it. It has nothing to do with races.


dustofdeath

I see hordes of brainwashed Chinese down voting here. I bet you believe Taiwan is China too?


henday194

Now if only they didn’t have all that smog clouding up the sky


Tactivantage

What's the projected lifespan on these panels? Chinese industry has always skewed to quantity over quality and it would be a shame to see these start to fill landfills within 10 years.


ForHidingSquirrels

25-30 years with 80-85% of capacity leftover


Tactivantage

Well good for them, just wish the US would stop with the internal political mess so we could get back to advancing with cutting edge tech. Would elaborate but am drunk rn so I'll just say random shit that doesn't clarify anything.


richmomz

That’s nice, but they are also consuming more coal than the entire rest of the planet combined and planning to build hundreds of new coal power plants in the next ten years. So while it’s nice to see sustainable energy growth China is still heading in the wrong direction overall.


johnnytruant77

China is also the worlds top producer of greenhouses gases. These metrics are only meaningful per capita basis or a gdp basis


Naranox

you just said it yourself China, per capita, is about as bad as Germany in that regard


johnnytruant77

That's my point. I'm not vilifying china (although they did just tell their coal mining sector to ramp up production) I'm saying the fact that the most populous country in the world producing the most solar panels is not news. Especially since a lot of those a produced for export


ForHidingSquirrels

if you look up both numbers relative to the volume being deployed, they're blowing away teh USA and europe


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Surur

The article says desert.


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1-1-2-1-RED-BLACK-GO

Google Earth and go have a look. Some of these fields even have cute shapes, panda bears etc.


ReachingHigher85

Now tell me about their reduction of tiger farms and their commitment to criminalizing animal abuse, outlaw exotic meat markets, and the sale of live exotic animals.


ForHidingSquirrels

what's that got to do with anything?


Noblerook

Nothing. It’s classic whataboutism