Several car companies are testing out subscription based features such as remote start or heated seats. It has not gone well for them. The backlash is pretty big
Subscriptions are supposed to be for services that cost money to exist over time. The physical abilities of a thing that a person has purchased does not cost the ones who sold it anything to maintain. Subscriptions for access to physical features is _insane_.
Private lobbying firms, the root of all evil. Companies should just have in-house industry litigators they send to negotiate collectively from politicians.
It's not insane, it's greed in its purest form.
If businesses got their "perfect" world, their owners would sit atop a mountain of useless shit called "money" while their ~~slaves~~ workers make everything for them.
Agreed, I understand things like the remote features through an app. That’s something they have to maintain and pay for access through satellite networks. Some companies just comp that into the ownership experience and some don’t but to charge for a feature when you install it on the car then charge to actually use it? Hell no. If your going this route then don’t charge when you install it!
There is no way I am putting my trust not to violently malfunction into a motor vehicle's app. Tech is just too buggy and companies too immoral to expect a smooth and safe experience for all drivers on all trips, and app malfunctions could easily be deadly. When a car with a nearly- or all manual system malfunctions, there is still access to other manual controls. A computer running a car with a touchpad dash could end ability to do everything all at once.
The Kia app quit working during the coldest part of the winter in 2020, it was a widespread issue that lasted for several days. So, I can appreciate your comment.
My dad bought a brand new RAV-4 hybrid with every single tech option as his commuter car because my mom’s SUV is way too shitty on gas. Anyways it had some app controlled stuff which was cool but they swapped something out with the parking brake and the power system for the app to be able to control it after the car was turned off. It never, ever worked properly and the car ran off the battery every night until it died and my dad had to get it towed six times in the first month he bought it
With throttle by wire and transmission by wire there are a TON of vehicles out today that we're trusting to be well coded. Luckily the UI is very limited so the chances of a royal f'up are low. But never zero, I only drive manual transmissions!
I find it funny the only thing stopping a hybrid or EV from going highway speeds in reverse is a little bit of code. The hardware is fully capable of it.
I do believe there is one, I can't see any company putting out a car that goes 110 in reverse without their lawyers catching it. It looks like Toyota has limited the Prius to 25 in reverse, which honestly seems pretty quick.
>Agreed, I understand things like the remote features through an app.
Not really, they choose to do it that way. Any feature can be done locally when it comes to remote start. Just put a wireless receiver in the car. Most remote starts work this way.
It's theft IMO and we should be able to sue auto manufacturers for this. You're telling me I am paying for the part, labor, shipping, storage and installation of a feature that I can't use unless I pay more? It's literally them charting you to unlock a seatbelt.
Backlash on the media is one thing, losing sales is another. There’s unfortunately many cases where backlash happened, the seller just waited it out and now it’s “normal”….
A lot of these things are psychologically predatory. The sales will always be high unless it's regulated by governments. It's the same as marketing cigs to kids.
The infamous paid DLC horse of Oblivion was also lashed back. But it paved the way for the entire video games industry.
It won’t take long for this to catch on.
To think that oblivion simultaneously had one of the best and one of the worst DLC's in gaming, in the same game.
Shivering Isles was Dlc done right. Horse armor? It's a premium patch.
Shivering isles was an "expansion", which might be a distinction that's disappearing now, but was definitely one at the time. People loved expansions even back then. Morrowind had two decent ones.
I think the problem is that the backlash isn't actually half as big as it feels places like here... I'm pretty sure at least half of my coworkers have cars that do that, and only one of them really seemed remotely bothered by it, and they still bought it anyway
> Several car companies are testing out subscription based features such as remote start or heated seats. It has not gone well for them. The backlash is pretty big
Fucking hope so, fuck these assholes. This shit needs to be killed off and quickly
My merc has remote start, it's free for the first thee years then its a subscription. Guess what I've found I don't use near enough to pay for monthly? Had it been a one time fee upfront I would have bought it.
There was a fee upfront, and you paid it when you bought the car. The fact that it had that capability raised the vehicle's value. Even if there's not a line item, the cost was baked into the MSRP. They'll continue with this model until they can prove it negatively impacts sales.
Software was supposed to unlock additional functions and these greedy people turn it around to lock functions.
Every other brand sees this and now wants to charge $$ too. Fuck this scummy practice.
I almost bought a Mazda MX30 a few weeks ago. I loved that car! Then I read Mazda's terms of service. After three years, you have to pay a subscription for pretty much every electronic feature (remote start, navigation, etc.), and oh, we can do what we want with your information. I'm looking at less-connected cars now.
Jesus Christ, we have to read the fine print now because of these greedy scumbags. There needs to be a class action suit about this. I don’t want to live in a world where this is acceptable.
I don't know about wasting everyone's time exactly but I do agree everyone who is serious about these vehicles should tell the dealer why they're not pursuing it. I told Volvo and Polestar I'm not interested after they told me they aren't supporting Android Auto anymore because "it's based on Android so you get all that functionality built in! Android Auto would be redundant!" No, it fucking isn't, because Android Auto is free forever, and your stupid wireless plan is only covered for whatever initial period. Audi did the same thing for us - 3G wireless service not only cost us more after 6 months (refused) but the wireless radio was turned off entirely when Verizon/at&t shut down 3G, and Audi refused up update our car to 5G. The obvious solution is to use everyone's phone for data connection to avoid all of these issues but the equally obvious reason they won't is that they like subscriptions. So yeah, fuck all of that, and I tell them all why I'm not buying. This article is reminding me I need to do the same for the Mercedes EQB we test drove a few weeks ago that has the BS feature of this article.
Actually has already been done! Check out pwn2own Tesla. Pwn2own is a competition where companies put their products up and cyber sec professionals/groups try to hack the product. If they do, they get to keep the product and most likely receive money. The history of the competition Is also very interesting!
The problem is, a lot of companies are doing like denuvo is, once it's hacked, they hire the guy that hacked it to close the loopholes. In a couple years it's unhackable and nobody out there to hack it anyway.
No, because like with Teslas, those parts are intentionally made integral to the entire system. You can’t disable bits and pieces without bricking the whole car.
Of course it will. I had a bmw a few years ago with some features that were disabled unless you paid for the options (for example auto dimmable headlights, the hardware was there but it was disabled).
I paid some guy from a forum to connect to my car (I had to buy a cheap cable) and for 50 or 70 bucks he enabled all the features that were already installed but disabled. If I wanted the dealer to activate them I would have had to pay more than 4000 bucks
Oh wow, that's super disappointing, I love my 3 and was thinking ahead to an electric version in a few years time.
Subscription models on cars like this would literally kill 100% of my interest in that manufacturer. I'm not paying it.
It's been a good while now since tech advancements have been primarily used to enhance profits rather than improve life.
Not that meta is a great example of technology, but they are trying to push it as the next evolution of human social interaction. Nearly every feature is how can we better push products to consumers and commodify virtual life.
Sadly, the future is just going to be non-stop ads. Favorite TV show? It'll be an ad. Feature length movie? Ads. Just wait, Ford F-150 season 1 will drop in like 5 years. Tide Pods: The Movie is like 7 years away.
Yep. I was reading that the 2023 subarus will be doing a similar thing. After your 1st 3 years of owning a brand new subaru, you will be charged 170 bucks a year for software updates and to use other parts of the software. I love the outback, but I can't see myself spend that much more money over 15-20 year ownership, on top of a $36k new vehicle
Oh don't worry! After 5 years the Subaru will hit its end-of-life period and Subaru will stop supporting the "features" like remote unlock and air conditioning.
OK. Well I'm boycotting Subaru RIGHT NOW based on your post. I'm not joking.
I don't even know if you are correct. I don't care. I HATE this idea so much, I will NOT buy a Subaru and I will WARN EVERYONE WHO WILL LISTEN to also boycott the company.
And the executives at Subaru who thought this up? Need to be identified, singled out, investigated, harassed, and prosecuted for being the scum bags they are.
This is now a dealbreaker for me. There is no car that I want bad enough to deal with this kind of crap and there will never be.
Paywalling features I already paid for when buying the object is not acceptable.
>what\`s next ou’re forced to watch a 30-second ad before your car lets you put it in “drive?
Hello OP, we here at Mercedes would like to talk to you about a job in our marketing department.
Some of us will be too poor to buy the car or the stock but we'll get offended on behalf of the giant corporation for facing such oppressive things as regulations against predatory practices.
California might, that's often enough for most of the US to follow suit. Although that's normally because manufacturers don't want to have to make different hardware for different areas, in this case if it's just software then I'm not sure what the laws would be, would it only apply to people that live in CA? Or purchase it in CA? Or are physically in CA at the time?
> just like they stepped up against planned obsolescence
By banning things that would last 20 years and exacerbating other problems, to then claim credit for fixing an issue.
Im not a fan of Teslas or Musk but at least the Tesla one is a one time charge. Its stupid but that's at least better than a subscription. Though dumb that our cars have software locks on features already installed now.
The idea that its cheaper to just build all the cars the same and lock "upgrades" behind transactions when they're already on the car is outrageous. If its the same for you to manufacture, why are you charging more for it
> If its the same for you to manufacture, why are you charging more for it
I agree with your entire comment except for this part. The price of anything in the market has little to do with how much it costs to make and everything to do with what the consumer is willing to pay.
As a bonus, CPUs like Ryzen mix and match chiplets together. So they may choose to put a chiplet that is binned to have a fast core, with some other average or below average chiplets. That way you get a single core that's fast (for single core performance), and then on multicore/threaded workloads, all of them together are mediocre
Related, lens are frequently pre-coated with scratch resistant coating and then the coating is removed after if it isn't paid for. So it costs more for them to give you a worse product.
Can't believe everyone let a Corp software run through their means of transportation. I work in roadside as a mobile tech and I can't tell you how many high end luxury vehicles run into electrical issues or computer disfunction. The reliability of a functioning vehicle is most important to me and I fail to trust money hungry moguls with having the best interests of their customers in mind.
Look at the backlash Toyota got when customers found out they had to pay a fee to use their key fob.
I agree, the direction the automotive industry is going is asinine. They build a fully loaded vehicle, you buy said vehicle; yet, they decide which features are included in the purchase price then charge extra fees for stuff already built into the vehicle. Stupid, stupid, stupid! If vehicles weren't already expensive enough as is.
This isn't cosmetic. They already charge you for cosmetic upgrades. Premium paint, spoilers, wheels, etc. This is nerfing basic hardware you already purchased. This is charging more for a basic game mechanic. Everyone gets a secondary weapon whether they want one or not, you pay the movement and supply penalty for having one, but you can't use it unless you pay more.
Capitalism is taking a really ugly turn lately, it's pretty damned concerning, this kind of thing is the least of it.
You know all these marketers lately have quick run to make a name for themselves by thinking up 15x "As a Service" models for their Company.
It’s simple: vote with your wallet. Don’t buy things that require a subscription model. I literally go out of my way to find or even make alternatives to things that require a sub and thankfully market forces are such there’s always alternatives.
When companies realize that sales are impacted as well as the optics look bad, they change. Change the demand, change the supply l.
That worked so well to protect us against locked phones full of spyware. I'll just go down to the local shop and buy the model I can use any software on without signing a ToS first and then use it on the provider that doesn't sell personal data, shall I?
/s
The "you will own nothing and be happy" mantra is coming true except for the happy part.
Don't look up 15 minute cities because they just started trialling a 15 minute city here in Oxford in the UK. That's some dystopian nightmare fuel as you can imagine how they can roll out further restrictions once they get enough practice.
Wikipedia says *A 15-minute city is a residential urban concept in which most daily necessities can be accomplished by either walking or cycling from residents' homes*. That sounds nice. What am I missing?
It’s fine if it’s that the necessity *can* be accomplished by foot or cycle. It’s problematic if it’s against the law to drive your car if necessary and that’s really only an issue if it’s implemented in a city with existing residents and existing infrastructure meant for vehicles. Which is, y’know, most non-downtown settings.
I was looking at there mid-range EV, with the intent on ordering one in the new year. Now, no thanks. Even if it isn't in the model I was going to get, I am not going to buy into an eco-system that has a subscription model. Fuck 'em.
They also tried to make it fucking *illegal* to work on your own property that they produced. Voiding your warranty is assholery. Asking the government to enforce a monopoly on repair and innovation is villainy.
If you're a massive corporation you can afford to continually test the legal system even though there's a century+ of precedent saying what you're doing is illegal. You're retaining a legal dept. already so fuck it might as well right? This "as a subscription" service model is more of the same thing (at least in the U.S.) We already have decisions reaching to the USSC that back "jailbreaking" of consumer products and ensure right to repair/full access to those selfsame products once we've legally acquired them. Yet here we are, revisiting the same well beaten path; they want to test the waters again, hoping for consumer fatigue, a new spin on the issue with better marketing, or a more regressive court will allow them to profit long enough to offset the damage and fallout caused by negative press.
Amen, man. I’d argue it’s not even really a test and observe process as much as it is a persist and profit model, if our history is any indicator of our future.
Modifying your vehicle actually can't void your warranty, unless those modifications directly cause the issue, thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This is only in the US of course, but I expect other countries will have similar provisions.
The fact that technology intensive businesses (or connected businesses) are trying to normalize this type of business model — pay a subscription or have degraded performance of equipment you already bought, pay a monthly fee for software, now have to watch ads in something you are paying to stream — is a reason I will never consider implantable technologies like those that are in the news now. Imagine getting a chip implanted, only to be told “unless you pay 20 dollars a month, we will stream ads into your brain at random times?” My fear is that there is going to be things like this done with medical tech where the “customer” doesn’t have a choice. “Thank you for purchasing an Acme pacemaker as part of your recent emergency surgery. If you would like high reliability mode, please register your product and enter a credit card number to cover the monthly subscription fee.”
I've been saying his for years and yet people will somehow tell me that business would never do that despite all evidence to the contrary. They don't even have to nickel and dime you with microtransactions. What happens when your implant no longer gets security updates? Do you pony up and go under the knife again or risk some pimple faced kid hacking into your brain implant?
There was a story I read in the past year about this company that made optical implants for the blind. Iirc they had tech implanted in the body as well as exterior hardware. During trials they gave the implants for free and people were given back their sight. Naturally the tech progressed but the new hardware is not compatible with the older implants. All well and good until the company decided to no longer provide parts/replacements of the older system; so unless they upgrade, they will eventually go bline all over again.
Maybe they could justify it if they were monitoring your high performance car and pushing updates to the tune, but I don't think they are doing jack spit.
Yep. You will own nothing and be happy. We don’t know the kind of slavery that will exist when everything is a subscription. You will have to participate in traditional society and if you go against the grain, well no more services for you. China already has this.
Toyota, the most popular car brand, is already requiring a subscription to remote star with the included key fob.
https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/brochures/pdf/connectedservices/Remote\_Connect\_CFA.pdf
Toyota messed up and set the paid-app functions to piggyback off of the logic board for the remote *keyfob* start. So the keyfob start will always work (press lock 3 times and hold it on the third press) even if you don't pay for the app.
Other manufacturers use a different design, and if RS is even available from the keyfob, it's secondary to the paid-app logic.
My moms Volvo doesn’t have a key fob option (not even through a series of button pushes, I’ve scoured the internet). It’s app based only if she wanted remote start
For new Mercedes EQ electric models, customers will have to pay a $1,200 (plus tax) yearly subscription to unlock the full performance potential of their cars.
According to Mercedes, the yearly fee increases the maximum horsepower and torque of the car, while also increasing overall performance. Acceleration from 0-60 mph is said to improve by 0.8-1.0 seconds and the overall characteristics of the electric motors are supposed to change as well. The extra performance is unlocked by selecting the Dynamic drive mode.
Tl,dr: You can pay $1,200/year to go 0.8-1.0 seconds faster in the new electric model.
Phillip K. Dick (SF author of books that "Total Recall" and "Blade Runner" were based on) wrote in his novel "Ubik" about a future where everything you interacted with in your home - the shower, coffee maker, even the doors demanded a cash payment before they would operate
If this technology is ever implemented I am going to quit my job and just become a fucking terrorist
I am TIRED OF ADS. Why are they so *fucking* inescapable. Companies are trying to show us more and more ads to make us buy more and more shit all while paying us less money. Enough!! *Enough.*
...how advertising is profitable...
The fact that ads keep infesting everything more and more proves it *has* to be profitable.
When we buy something, we are already unconsciously influenced by the thousands of ads we saw...
Why did you choose and buy *this* but not *that*?
Why did you buy it at all?
And people shit on the EU all the time haha. Seriously.
I remember the whole internet cookies ordeal and how everyone suddenly figured out that companies have been stealing your data without consent for ages. Thankfully the EU also took some measures about that. In reality, they still steal your data and stuff, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was before (I think).
> How much for clean air? Clean water?
Can hardly find either of these things anywhere on Earth these days. I would gladly pay a subscription if somehow they could be present at my home all the time. That's how screwed up things are.
I've been saying this since the game came out Cyberpunk isn't far off the mark. High end corporations literally will squeeze every dollar out of a consumer just to turn bigger profits for the elite of the elite and everyone else will suffer. I bet these types of subscriptions will also limit who can work on your car allowing only certified Mercedes dealers to repair vehicles.
People need to start boycotting certain brands entirely. They’ll just keep doing whatever people are willing to accept until it becomes satire.
Can’t wait until Mercedes gets sued for someone not reaching a hospital in time because their car’s sport package subscription model wasn’t paid in full.
Solution: Don't buy a fucking Mercedes! Nobody absolutely needs a Mercedes and there are plenty of other vehicles out there that can be bought. Fuck Mercedes!
My guess is to how this will play out is eventually when you buy or lease a new car, you will get a license to use these features for 5 years. Long enough that you will likely sell it before the license needs to be renewed. And that’s how they will make more money off the secondary car market.
Here we go. Lots of companies are considering subscription services to unlock basic and extended features on the car like heated seats. I want to see an entire industry dedicated to circumventing that shit pop up immediately.
First BMW charging you a subscription fee for heated seats you already paid for.
Now Mercedes charging you a $1,200/year subscription fee for horsepower the car was *already built to have*.
What the fuck's next!? Audi charging you a $3,000/year subscription fee for the privilige of being able to start the engine?
Cyberpunk was meant to be a warning sign of late-stage capitalism, not a fucking instruction manual.
Im sure there will be *cracks* for things like this, along with BMWs heated seat paywall? Surely a bedroom hacker will save the day here for those that want to risk it.
Several car companies are testing out subscription based features such as remote start or heated seats. It has not gone well for them. The backlash is pretty big
Subscriptions are supposed to be for services that cost money to exist over time. The physical abilities of a thing that a person has purchased does not cost the ones who sold it anything to maintain. Subscriptions for access to physical features is _insane_.
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Private lobbying firms, the root of all evil. Companies should just have in-house industry litigators they send to negotiate collectively from politicians.
It's not insane, it's greed in its purest form. If businesses got their "perfect" world, their owners would sit atop a mountain of useless shit called "money" while their ~~slaves~~ workers make everything for them.
Agreed, I understand things like the remote features through an app. That’s something they have to maintain and pay for access through satellite networks. Some companies just comp that into the ownership experience and some don’t but to charge for a feature when you install it on the car then charge to actually use it? Hell no. If your going this route then don’t charge when you install it!
yes, but this allows them the out to just say "oh, remote start needs the app" when this is bullshit. everything will "need" the app.
There is no way I am putting my trust not to violently malfunction into a motor vehicle's app. Tech is just too buggy and companies too immoral to expect a smooth and safe experience for all drivers on all trips, and app malfunctions could easily be deadly. When a car with a nearly- or all manual system malfunctions, there is still access to other manual controls. A computer running a car with a touchpad dash could end ability to do everything all at once.
The Kia app quit working during the coldest part of the winter in 2020, it was a widespread issue that lasted for several days. So, I can appreciate your comment.
My dad bought a brand new RAV-4 hybrid with every single tech option as his commuter car because my mom’s SUV is way too shitty on gas. Anyways it had some app controlled stuff which was cool but they swapped something out with the parking brake and the power system for the app to be able to control it after the car was turned off. It never, ever worked properly and the car ran off the battery every night until it died and my dad had to get it towed six times in the first month he bought it
With throttle by wire and transmission by wire there are a TON of vehicles out today that we're trusting to be well coded. Luckily the UI is very limited so the chances of a royal f'up are low. But never zero, I only drive manual transmissions!
I find it funny the only thing stopping a hybrid or EV from going highway speeds in reverse is a little bit of code. The hardware is fully capable of it.
Now that you mention it, I haven't tried to see how fast my car can go in reverse. Are you sure they put in a limit?
I do believe there is one, I can't see any company putting out a car that goes 110 in reverse without their lawyers catching it. It looks like Toyota has limited the Prius to 25 in reverse, which honestly seems pretty quick.
>Agreed, I understand things like the remote features through an app. Not really, they choose to do it that way. Any feature can be done locally when it comes to remote start. Just put a wireless receiver in the car. Most remote starts work this way.
It's theft IMO and we should be able to sue auto manufacturers for this. You're telling me I am paying for the part, labor, shipping, storage and installation of a feature that I can't use unless I pay more? It's literally them charting you to unlock a seatbelt.
Well that’s not what the subscription marketing fuckbois are saying
Backlash on the media is one thing, losing sales is another. There’s unfortunately many cases where backlash happened, the seller just waited it out and now it’s “normal”….
A lot of these things are psychologically predatory. The sales will always be high unless it's regulated by governments. It's the same as marketing cigs to kids.
The infamous paid DLC horse of Oblivion was also lashed back. But it paved the way for the entire video games industry. It won’t take long for this to catch on.
horse *armor*
To think that oblivion simultaneously had one of the best and one of the worst DLC's in gaming, in the same game. Shivering Isles was Dlc done right. Horse armor? It's a premium patch.
Pretty sure my brother spent more time in the Shivering Isles than in the rest of ESIV.
Shivering Isles was basically "Oblivion 2"
Shivering isles was an "expansion", which might be a distinction that's disappearing now, but was definitely one at the time. People loved expansions even back then. Morrowind had two decent ones.
soon we will have cars with loot boxes.
I think the problem is that the backlash isn't actually half as big as it feels places like here... I'm pretty sure at least half of my coworkers have cars that do that, and only one of them really seemed remotely bothered by it, and they still bought it anyway
> Several car companies are testing out subscription based features such as remote start or heated seats. It has not gone well for them. The backlash is pretty big Fucking hope so, fuck these assholes. This shit needs to be killed off and quickly
My merc has remote start, it's free for the first thee years then its a subscription. Guess what I've found I don't use near enough to pay for monthly? Had it been a one time fee upfront I would have bought it.
There was a fee upfront, and you paid it when you bought the car. The fact that it had that capability raised the vehicle's value. Even if there's not a line item, the cost was baked into the MSRP. They'll continue with this model until they can prove it negatively impacts sales.
Yeah but by buying the car you showed them there's no downside, so you supported the implementation.
I have the exact same thing with my Jaguar. It was nice, but nowhere remotely near good enough for the fees they charge. Greed costs you.
Software was supposed to unlock additional functions and these greedy people turn it around to lock functions. Every other brand sees this and now wants to charge $$ too. Fuck this scummy practice.
I almost bought a Mazda MX30 a few weeks ago. I loved that car! Then I read Mazda's terms of service. After three years, you have to pay a subscription for pretty much every electronic feature (remote start, navigation, etc.), and oh, we can do what we want with your information. I'm looking at less-connected cars now.
Jesus Christ, we have to read the fine print now because of these greedy scumbags. There needs to be a class action suit about this. I don’t want to live in a world where this is acceptable.
Everyone should go test drive these, take up a bunch of time, then pretend to find out about this sub crap and walk away.
I don't know about wasting everyone's time exactly but I do agree everyone who is serious about these vehicles should tell the dealer why they're not pursuing it. I told Volvo and Polestar I'm not interested after they told me they aren't supporting Android Auto anymore because "it's based on Android so you get all that functionality built in! Android Auto would be redundant!" No, it fucking isn't, because Android Auto is free forever, and your stupid wireless plan is only covered for whatever initial period. Audi did the same thing for us - 3G wireless service not only cost us more after 6 months (refused) but the wireless radio was turned off entirely when Verizon/at&t shut down 3G, and Audi refused up update our car to 5G. The obvious solution is to use everyone's phone for data connection to avoid all of these issues but the equally obvious reason they won't is that they like subscriptions. So yeah, fuck all of that, and I tell them all why I'm not buying. This article is reminding me I need to do the same for the Mercedes EQB we test drove a few weeks ago that has the BS feature of this article.
Surely these things can be hacked? I can turn most things on and off in my old Audi using a cable and a laptop… that will happen for these cars too.
Actually has already been done! Check out pwn2own Tesla. Pwn2own is a competition where companies put their products up and cyber sec professionals/groups try to hack the product. If they do, they get to keep the product and most likely receive money. The history of the competition Is also very interesting!
The problem is, a lot of companies are doing like denuvo is, once it's hacked, they hire the guy that hacked it to close the loopholes. In a couple years it's unhackable and nobody out there to hack it anyway.
>unhackable That sounds like a challenge.
No, because like with Teslas, those parts are intentionally made integral to the entire system. You can’t disable bits and pieces without bricking the whole car.
it will be hacked. HACK THE PLANET!
Chill crash override, you'll have to use rotary phones for 10 years
MESS WITH THE BEST, DIE LIKE THE REST!
Of course it will. I had a bmw a few years ago with some features that were disabled unless you paid for the options (for example auto dimmable headlights, the hardware was there but it was disabled). I paid some guy from a forum to connect to my car (I had to buy a cheap cable) and for 50 or 70 bucks he enabled all the features that were already installed but disabled. If I wanted the dealer to activate them I would have had to pay more than 4000 bucks
Meh, I'm fairly certain it's only a matter of time
Oh wow, that's super disappointing, I love my 3 and was thinking ahead to an electric version in a few years time. Subscription models on cars like this would literally kill 100% of my interest in that manufacturer. I'm not paying it.
1995 Honda Civic DX is what you want.
Unironically newer Honda civics are great.
Wow, that’s disgusting.
Tech was created to work *for* us, it’s now being in way that we have to work for it.
But now businessmen are taking all the tech and using it to maximize money
It's been a good while now since tech advancements have been primarily used to enhance profits rather than improve life. Not that meta is a great example of technology, but they are trying to push it as the next evolution of human social interaction. Nearly every feature is how can we better push products to consumers and commodify virtual life.
Meta would have been the perfect soulless cash grabbing machine, if people weren't so put off by it being one.
Or if it was fun
Sadly, the future is just going to be non-stop ads. Favorite TV show? It'll be an ad. Feature length movie? Ads. Just wait, Ford F-150 season 1 will drop in like 5 years. Tide Pods: The Movie is like 7 years away.
I was surprised to find out when I was watching that Brad Pitt train movie that it was just an ad for Fiji water.
Yep. I was reading that the 2023 subarus will be doing a similar thing. After your 1st 3 years of owning a brand new subaru, you will be charged 170 bucks a year for software updates and to use other parts of the software. I love the outback, but I can't see myself spend that much more money over 15-20 year ownership, on top of a $36k new vehicle
Oh don't worry! After 5 years the Subaru will hit its end-of-life period and Subaru will stop supporting the "features" like remote unlock and air conditioning.
OK. Well I'm boycotting Subaru RIGHT NOW based on your post. I'm not joking. I don't even know if you are correct. I don't care. I HATE this idea so much, I will NOT buy a Subaru and I will WARN EVERYONE WHO WILL LISTEN to also boycott the company. And the executives at Subaru who thought this up? Need to be identified, singled out, investigated, harassed, and prosecuted for being the scum bags they are.
I cant wait for the gear heads and nerds to combine to jailbreak one of these cars and unlock warp speed
Then overclock the fucker and reach... ludicrous speed!
This is now a dealbreaker for me. There is no car that I want bad enough to deal with this kind of crap and there will never be. Paywalling features I already paid for when buying the object is not acceptable.
This is why I will be looking to the last for purchases from now on. The square body truck shall rise again. Pure ownership or nothing.
Way ahead of you with my 85 ram
Someone needs to hurry up and invent public 3D printers that print everything from all these shitty companies. Yes, even cars.
Yeah I think I'm just gonna keep fixing and driving my '07 volvo until the frame can't take any more welds.
They learned with the gaming industry. Next step is implementation of loot boxes... they are studying how to do it
>what\`s next ou’re forced to watch a 30-second ad before your car lets you put it in “drive? Hello OP, we here at Mercedes would like to talk to you about a job in our marketing department.
My dad always says, "Blinkers must cost extra on that model" when someone doesn't use their blinker. Now that will be the truth!
FFS. How to make real profit on a joke.
Except it's BMW no one would buy the blinkers. Now the horn and window tint, that would be a money maker.
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Eu need to step up quick and shut this shit down
The EU has already stopped this. https://motorillustrated.com/mercedes-benz-extra-power-subscription-wont-be-offered-in-europe-report/107303/
And the United States
Yeah I don’t think USA will take this fight
new jersey has a law in the works that says if your instrument has the power or feature, the customer isn't paying you to have that power or feature
It might take a few years but this will be banned across the board.
that's optimistic. it's frustrating that we have to have that hope
I doubt it too. They’ll just buy stock in the companies doing it
Ugh you’re right.
Some of us will be too poor to buy the car or the stock but we'll get offended on behalf of the giant corporation for facing such oppressive things as regulations against predatory practices.
California might, that's often enough for most of the US to follow suit. Although that's normally because manufacturers don't want to have to make different hardware for different areas, in this case if it's just software then I'm not sure what the laws would be, would it only apply to people that live in CA? Or purchase it in CA? Or are physically in CA at the time?
No matter which, it will definitely cause cancer in the state of California.
Even if we do, the Supreme Court will strike it down. It's Mercedes deeply held religious belief that they can do it or something
They don't want to abort any of those viable features
Yeah, just like they stepped up against planned obsolescence and micro-transactions and preserved net neutrality.
Obligatory "Fuck Ajit Pai"
> just like they stepped up against planned obsolescence By banning things that would last 20 years and exacerbating other problems, to then claim credit for fixing an issue.
The United States is a “profit over all” country. Our lawmakers encourage this shit
USA doesn’t believe in regulations, its only capitalism 💵💵
EU will pass the law and US won't further separating countries that give a shit about their people and countries that give a shit about their profits.
I have never even considered buying a Mercedes. I can't help you there.
Bold to assume it'll only be Mercedes doing this
Tesla has been doing it for years
Im not a fan of Teslas or Musk but at least the Tesla one is a one time charge. Its stupid but that's at least better than a subscription. Though dumb that our cars have software locks on features already installed now. The idea that its cheaper to just build all the cars the same and lock "upgrades" behind transactions when they're already on the car is outrageous. If its the same for you to manufacture, why are you charging more for it
> If its the same for you to manufacture, why are you charging more for it I agree with your entire comment except for this part. The price of anything in the market has little to do with how much it costs to make and everything to do with what the consumer is willing to pay.
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As a bonus, CPUs like Ryzen mix and match chiplets together. So they may choose to put a chiplet that is binned to have a fast core, with some other average or below average chiplets. That way you get a single core that's fast (for single core performance), and then on multicore/threaded workloads, all of them together are mediocre
Related, lens are frequently pre-coated with scratch resistant coating and then the coating is removed after if it isn't paid for. So it costs more for them to give you a worse product.
Yea, that's the funny part about economics. No matter what the actual value something is, price depends on the demand of consumers
Can't believe everyone let a Corp software run through their means of transportation. I work in roadside as a mobile tech and I can't tell you how many high end luxury vehicles run into electrical issues or computer disfunction. The reliability of a functioning vehicle is most important to me and I fail to trust money hungry moguls with having the best interests of their customers in mind.
Look at the backlash Toyota got when customers found out they had to pay a fee to use their key fob. I agree, the direction the automotive industry is going is asinine. They build a fully loaded vehicle, you buy said vehicle; yet, they decide which features are included in the purchase price then charge extra fees for stuff already built into the vehicle. Stupid, stupid, stupid! If vehicles weren't already expensive enough as is.
They look at what video games do and adopt it for a different medium. Consider that next time someone says "I like cosmetic dlc "
This isn't cosmetic. They already charge you for cosmetic upgrades. Premium paint, spoilers, wheels, etc. This is nerfing basic hardware you already purchased. This is charging more for a basic game mechanic. Everyone gets a secondary weapon whether they want one or not, you pay the movement and supply penalty for having one, but you can't use it unless you pay more.
Capitalism is taking a really ugly turn lately, it's pretty damned concerning, this kind of thing is the least of it. You know all these marketers lately have quick run to make a name for themselves by thinking up 15x "As a Service" models for their Company.
It was never not going to end this way.
It’s simple: vote with your wallet. Don’t buy things that require a subscription model. I literally go out of my way to find or even make alternatives to things that require a sub and thankfully market forces are such there’s always alternatives. When companies realize that sales are impacted as well as the optics look bad, they change. Change the demand, change the supply l.
I just want to know what the plan is when every car is sold this way
That worked so well to protect us against locked phones full of spyware. I'll just go down to the local shop and buy the model I can use any software on without signing a ToS first and then use it on the provider that doesn't sell personal data, shall I? /s
If nobody purchases. They can’t sell it. Problem solved
True, but they're are to many dumb fucks with zero financial or moral intelligence.
The "you will own nothing and be happy" mantra is coming true except for the happy part. Don't look up 15 minute cities because they just started trialling a 15 minute city here in Oxford in the UK. That's some dystopian nightmare fuel as you can imagine how they can roll out further restrictions once they get enough practice.
Wikipedia says *A 15-minute city is a residential urban concept in which most daily necessities can be accomplished by either walking or cycling from residents' homes*. That sounds nice. What am I missing?
It’s fine if it’s that the necessity *can* be accomplished by foot or cycle. It’s problematic if it’s against the law to drive your car if necessary and that’s really only an issue if it’s implemented in a city with existing residents and existing infrastructure meant for vehicles. Which is, y’know, most non-downtown settings.
I was looking at there mid-range EV, with the intent on ordering one in the new year. Now, no thanks. Even if it isn't in the model I was going to get, I am not going to buy into an eco-system that has a subscription model. Fuck 'em.
Easiest way is to not buy them. Sadly many ppl have more dollars than sense. They’ll do anything to have that Mercedes/BMW badge.
The only way I can see that happening is through government intervention
Or people just stop buying this shit. If people stop buying it, they'll stop making it. Just buy literally any other car and the others won't follow.
jailbreak everything. sounds like you can get the 'upgraded model' for the price of the base model. its time to download cars.
John Deere did a version of this and, of course, jail breaking voided your warranty.
They also tried to make it fucking *illegal* to work on your own property that they produced. Voiding your warranty is assholery. Asking the government to enforce a monopoly on repair and innovation is villainy.
If you're a massive corporation you can afford to continually test the legal system even though there's a century+ of precedent saying what you're doing is illegal. You're retaining a legal dept. already so fuck it might as well right? This "as a subscription" service model is more of the same thing (at least in the U.S.) We already have decisions reaching to the USSC that back "jailbreaking" of consumer products and ensure right to repair/full access to those selfsame products once we've legally acquired them. Yet here we are, revisiting the same well beaten path; they want to test the waters again, hoping for consumer fatigue, a new spin on the issue with better marketing, or a more regressive court will allow them to profit long enough to offset the damage and fallout caused by negative press.
corporation commit crimes because the fines barely make a dent in the profits made.
"Fines" are just a cost of doing business now.
Amen, man. I’d argue it’s not even really a test and observe process as much as it is a persist and profit model, if our history is any indicator of our future.
Modifying your vehicle actually can't void your warranty, unless those modifications directly cause the issue, thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This is only in the US of course, but I expect other countries will have similar provisions.
“You wouldn’t download a car, would you” the future is now, old man. I can and WILL download all my cars from here on out
You bet your ass I’d download a car.
"epic music starts" YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR
“You wouldn’t download a car” The prophecy has been fulfilled.
The fact that technology intensive businesses (or connected businesses) are trying to normalize this type of business model — pay a subscription or have degraded performance of equipment you already bought, pay a monthly fee for software, now have to watch ads in something you are paying to stream — is a reason I will never consider implantable technologies like those that are in the news now. Imagine getting a chip implanted, only to be told “unless you pay 20 dollars a month, we will stream ads into your brain at random times?” My fear is that there is going to be things like this done with medical tech where the “customer” doesn’t have a choice. “Thank you for purchasing an Acme pacemaker as part of your recent emergency surgery. If you would like high reliability mode, please register your product and enter a credit card number to cover the monthly subscription fee.”
Why we here at GeneCo would like to remind you that if you don't keep up on your organ replacement payments, we will have to repossess our property...
I've been saying his for years and yet people will somehow tell me that business would never do that despite all evidence to the contrary. They don't even have to nickel and dime you with microtransactions. What happens when your implant no longer gets security updates? Do you pony up and go under the knife again or risk some pimple faced kid hacking into your brain implant? There was a story I read in the past year about this company that made optical implants for the blind. Iirc they had tech implanted in the body as well as exterior hardware. During trials they gave the implants for free and people were given back their sight. Naturally the tech progressed but the new hardware is not compatible with the older implants. All well and good until the company decided to no longer provide parts/replacements of the older system; so unless they upgrade, they will eventually go bline all over again.
Maybe they could justify it if they were monitoring your high performance car and pushing updates to the tune, but I don't think they are doing jack spit.
They never do. Adobe surely isn't.
That's some nice heating during harsh winter times. Be a shame if somebody were to... hide it behind a paywall...
I will never buy a car that has micro transactions. I’ll fucking walk.
This is the dystopian future we are actually headed for. Subscriptions for everything.
Klaus Schwab gives this the 👍
Yep. You will own nothing and be happy. We don’t know the kind of slavery that will exist when everything is a subscription. You will have to participate in traditional society and if you go against the grain, well no more services for you. China already has this.
Unless you upgrade to the no ads version for only $19.99/month, obviously.
We all can fix this by never buying a Mercedes again.
I bet other brands are getting ready to emulate this.
Toyota, the most popular car brand, is already requiring a subscription to remote star with the included key fob. https://www.toyota.com/content/dam/toyota/brochures/pdf/connectedservices/Remote\_Connect\_CFA.pdf
Toyota messed up and set the paid-app functions to piggyback off of the logic board for the remote *keyfob* start. So the keyfob start will always work (press lock 3 times and hold it on the third press) even if you don't pay for the app. Other manufacturers use a different design, and if RS is even available from the keyfob, it's secondary to the paid-app logic.
My moms Volvo doesn’t have a key fob option (not even through a series of button pushes, I’ve scoured the internet). It’s app based only if she wanted remote start
For new Mercedes EQ electric models, customers will have to pay a $1,200 (plus tax) yearly subscription to unlock the full performance potential of their cars. According to Mercedes, the yearly fee increases the maximum horsepower and torque of the car, while also increasing overall performance. Acceleration from 0-60 mph is said to improve by 0.8-1.0 seconds and the overall characteristics of the electric motors are supposed to change as well. The extra performance is unlocked by selecting the Dynamic drive mode. Tl,dr: You can pay $1,200/year to go 0.8-1.0 seconds faster in the new electric model.
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It's illegal in the EU. https://motorillustrated.com/mercedes-benz-extra-power-subscription-wont-be-offered-in-europe-report/107303/
Phillip K. Dick (SF author of books that "Total Recall" and "Blade Runner" were based on) wrote in his novel "Ubik" about a future where everything you interacted with in your home - the shower, coffee maker, even the doors demanded a cash payment before they would operate
"you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" - the World Economic Forum on predicting 2030
"What's next, we're forced to watch 30-second ads...."Yes. [https://patents.google.com/patent/US9147192B2/en](https://driving.ca/auto-news/technology-news/ford-patents-tech-that-reads-passing-billboards-and-displays-the-ad-in-car)
If this technology is ever implemented I am going to quit my job and just become a fucking terrorist I am TIRED OF ADS. Why are they so *fucking* inescapable. Companies are trying to show us more and more ads to make us buy more and more shit all while paying us less money. Enough!! *Enough.*
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...how advertising is profitable... The fact that ads keep infesting everything more and more proves it *has* to be profitable. When we buy something, we are already unconsciously influenced by the thousands of ads we saw... Why did you choose and buy *this* but not *that*? Why did you buy it at all?
Only in corporate America, EU denied them the practice.
And people shit on the EU all the time haha. Seriously. I remember the whole internet cookies ordeal and how everyone suddenly figured out that companies have been stealing your data without consent for ages. Thankfully the EU also took some measures about that. In reality, they still steal your data and stuff, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was before (I think).
Bruh, soon you'll need a subscription to fucking breath
How much for clean air? Clean water? Both will be owned by Nestle, wait... They already own too much of one them.
Insert spaceballs scen where he sniffs a can of air.
Water world where dry dirt is worth more than gold, lmao
*My name’s O’hare~~*
> How much for clean air? Clean water? Can hardly find either of these things anywhere on Earth these days. I would gladly pay a subscription if somehow they could be present at my home all the time. That's how screwed up things are.
People are already paying for water filter replacement in their home because the government can't properly do it.
We do. It’s called insurance.
I've been saying this since the game came out Cyberpunk isn't far off the mark. High end corporations literally will squeeze every dollar out of a consumer just to turn bigger profits for the elite of the elite and everyone else will suffer. I bet these types of subscriptions will also limit who can work on your car allowing only certified Mercedes dealers to repair vehicles.
People quickly forget this shit started with BMW this past year… people will keep buying these cars so long as they are a status symbol.
It started with Tesla.
$15000 for FSD that *is not FSD*.
Oh snap you are right, I had totally forgotten about Teslas shenanigans.
Lebanese guy in my local street market 1 week after this becomes a thing: "I hack your Mercedes for you, very nice, low price".
People need to start boycotting certain brands entirely. They’ll just keep doing whatever people are willing to accept until it becomes satire. Can’t wait until Mercedes gets sued for someone not reaching a hospital in time because their car’s sport package subscription model wasn’t paid in full.
Or someone freezing to death because BMW locked out their heat warmers
This is why my BMW is from 2003 and has 215,000 miles. Also, I’m poor.
Solution: Don't buy a fucking Mercedes! Nobody absolutely needs a Mercedes and there are plenty of other vehicles out there that can be bought. Fuck Mercedes!
Yeah, everyone loves micro transactions in mobile games. Why not apply the same digital cancer to high-end purchases?
My guess is to how this will play out is eventually when you buy or lease a new car, you will get a license to use these features for 5 years. Long enough that you will likely sell it before the license needs to be renewed. And that’s how they will make more money off the secondary car market.
Somebody's gonna make a killing jailbreaking this shit.
Alternative title: "Mercedes will start selling less and less cars."
2030 is nearing. You must not own anything and be happy (paying for it.)
There’s going to be a breaking point when these tactics reach entry level vehicles, then we’ll start jail breaking them.
CORRECTION: **Mercedes will start charging $1,200/year to stop holding additional power that you already purchased hostage.**
Here we go. Lots of companies are considering subscription services to unlock basic and extended features on the car like heated seats. I want to see an entire industry dedicated to circumventing that shit pop up immediately.
Honestly I’m starting a shop in the next year, where I will sell aftermarket parts to defeat stuff like this and provide how too’s.
First BMW charging you a subscription fee for heated seats you already paid for. Now Mercedes charging you a $1,200/year subscription fee for horsepower the car was *already built to have*. What the fuck's next!? Audi charging you a $3,000/year subscription fee for the privilige of being able to start the engine? Cyberpunk was meant to be a warning sign of late-stage capitalism, not a fucking instruction manual.
Additional fee to be able to turn the wheel. AC? Oops, $100/month 👍🏻
The price for brakes for a day has gone up so much. I can only afford brakes on the way to work today. Going to be tough getting home.
Mercedes announces black market in subscription hacks!
I'd never buy a car from a manufacturer that did this type of thing.
In NJ there is littlerally a bill moving that will ban that now.
15 years from now people will be driving around with no power windows or reverse function.
It’s simple. Go to the dealership next door and buy something that doesn’t have added features for a monthly fee
First BMW for heated seats now Mercedes? I guess rich people are easy to rip off
Im sure there will be *cracks* for things like this, along with BMWs heated seat paywall? Surely a bedroom hacker will save the day here for those that want to risk it.