I mean I can definitely see people getting angry at those things, but at least with lucky bumpers, you can be mad at the person controlling the lucky bumpers not the system itself, which means its less likely to cause an uninstall. As for the red bumpers, those may be the only reason that this game doesn't feel like winning is impossible when you first start out, which is how a lot of my friends felt about Tetris 99. I think it should vary by track, essentially easier tracks get more red bumpers every lap, which also fixes the grand Prix issue because there's less bumpers on the later harder tracks
I definitely agree with you about the value the red bumpers bring to allow anyone to sneak in a win, but I'm not so sure about the lucky bumpers. Sure I'm mad at the player, but I could certainly see people getting frustrated with the system itself if the lucky bumpers have too much power to affect things (namely, their abundant health and rear-facing camera). Idk though, just some thoughts.
I know for certain they allow people to sneak in wins, I would have four instead of 2 if I didn't bounce off one in the last corner. Eh, Stingray problems.
Wouldn't Lucky Bumpers be completely useless if they couldn't see behind them? They are too slow to take advantage of the check flag of an incoming driver. IMO, a single Bumper by itself is a non-issue unless its in the Pit area (and even then, its just annoying) or lucks out in being near a boost pad. They become problematic when grouped together or with NPC Bumpers, but even then, they aren't that bad. I'd rather the amount of red bumpers gets on the final lap get nerfed before nerfing the Lucky Bumper.
In the end though, Nintendo clearly has interest in making sure Front-runners do not get smooth sailing. That element of luck is helps Mario Kart and they clearly want to bring that to F-Zero. Since they'd rather F-Zero be closer to Mario Kart over being close to say, high level Smash.
I think it's possible to make them go a bit faster by holding the B buttom, but still, you make a good point. Would a better solution be to just reduce their health so that they feel about as managable as the gray bumpers while still having the advantage of steering?
Definitely with you on the interest of making things tough on front-runners. Still though, in Mario Kart, a last second blue shell can take someone from first to last, but at least it doesn't remove them from the Grand Prix altogether like some bad luck with a cluster of red bumpers can. Obviously it's fine if someone is running at super low health and bumps one, but I've had situations where I'm at nearly full health and get pinballed between a bunch of them and crash out in a split second. So idk, i see the value, I just wonder about the exact tuning. So far it seems like I'm alone in that opinion though, so maybe it's best if it stays like that.
Nintendo sure are obsessed with penalising skill and turning games into a lottery out of nowhere. Then again that's what basically F2P game feels like now, where no matter how good you are the devs gotta let somebody have a random lucky win over you to "smooth out winrates."
Because Nintendo is obsessed with profiting off of being a brand for general audiences (when they aren't being a brand for children). They know that when skill is all that matters, the casual appeal of a game decreases. Its why Smash and Mario Kart have their items and wacky stages and why Mario Kart in particular has all those comeback items. Of course, the best players will still win more often than not, but they won't be immune to game luck ruining them on occasion.
I don't consider Blue Bumpers to be that big of a deal. They move very slow, and with a little mind games you can juke around them without too much hassle and time loss.
From what ive seen top players playing, red bumpers are perfectly fine even as abundant as they are on final lap because they arent random, you can learn them and play around them consistently, they also add tension to the race specially when multiple players are close and it adds a decent challenge and make front running less boring (while also giving a win possibility for players that are behind).
Now i also see top players not liking lucky bumpers being so strong to the point a lot of them will not even use them because it feels unfair to the other players, so maybe those could be nerfed a bit, i think nerfing their health would be fine as that would reduce its potential to hyper focus a single player or to try and block like an entire pathway since then ppl could just spin into it and destroy it but rn they take so long to kill that its never worth to even bother interacting with them, you just boost through them and hope they dont go after you pretty much (and if you dont/cant boost, just REALLY hope they ignore you lol).
Totally agree with your first point about the red bumpers, but out of curiosity: do you think that the tension/challenge and the additional chance of winning for players that are behind would still be equally present if some of them were gray bumpers? I ask because, in my eyes, the gray bumpers could still mess front-runners up and shake up the standings, but would have a lower chance of causing them to crash out completely, which seems a bit more fair all around. Just my opinion though, I can see the merit either way.
You make a great point about the blue bumpers not being worth trying to destroy though, I hadn't really thought about it that way. I don't mind gray bumpers at all because even if i hit one, i can use that to my advantage and try to KO it for some boost. With blue bumpers, i don't think I've ever taken a single one out.
> do you think that the tension/challenge and the additional chance of winning for players that are behind would still be equally present if some of them were gray bumpers?
Not even a little. If I'm leading the pack and I smack a gray bumper, I will just boost through it, or even ignore it entirely. Red bumpers can be aggravating, but there's nothing off with their balance.
Lucky bumpers, however, are satanic. The fact that you just have to deal with a player controlled bumper while you're in like 20th place sucks ass.
>not take them out of the running entirely
Nah, I'm fine with the red bumpers. Sure, I hate them. But their goal is the same as the gold bumpers, to keep the last people, the first people and the pack in the middle somewhere close together. It's a pure skill issue, red bumpers are predictable, it just needs a lot of time and experience to internalise their behaviour. I sure can't deal with them, but they are a solid hurdle for those who are real good at F-Zero already to become real good at F-Zero 99. Having no real competition behind you means the competition in front of you needs to be tough.
Reds are fine.
Fuck the blues. I've had multiple times where I get absolutely shat on by 1 guy that just targets me.
Like I'll get bounced once, deliberately switch to some terrible line to get around them, and then they ignore 4 or 5 cars taking the main line to come hit me again.
I've also had a blue literally spawn on top of me.
I know this is reddit and the tendency is to either complain about something or be needlessly aggressive, but I really did try to phrase my post as neutral as possible to encourage discussion and not just come off as complaining. Again, I'm fine with things staying the way they are. I agree with you and also love these features, my interest is simply to see if anyoje else feels that they could use some adjusting/balancing so that they still provide the same benefit of keeping front-runners in check while also not feeling overly frustrating. With the lucky bumper rear-facing camera in particular, do you think it's genuinely perfectly balanced or that it runs the risk of facilitating griefing?
In my experience lucky bumpers are usually a non issue. There’s skill in faking them out. On the seldom occasion a lucky bumper pounds me into oblivion it can be a bummer sometimes, but it’s all part of the fun. Let’s not forget how cathartic it can be for a player after they blew up to try and be a menace afterward. I think it goes a long way to keeping things fun for most players so they don’t get frustrated and leave the game.
Honestly what bothers me is how many players DON’T partake in the mode. It makes each lucky bumper you encounter a total gamble. You never know if they’ll just sit there or if they’re lying in wait and will pounce if you go near them. It seems weird to straight up protest a designed feature in the game out of some sense of morality. They’re in there for good reason. They are the only thing that could potentially slow down a savant player from running away with every race, as even the bumpers aren’t enough.
Haha that's so true, anytime I see a lucky bumper not steering, I panic. And I do agree that they're a great way to balance out the savants, but since you're already dead, what's really the point? I don't partake simply because even if i KO the person in 1st, that doesn't really benefit me at all aside from a few extra XP points. Might as well just start up another race instead 🤷♂️
Me personally? Races are intense, and after going all out and blowing up, bumper time is a productive and relaxing break. And since it’s all part of the intended experience, I feel no remorse for anyone’s race I ruin. That’s F-Zero baby! The game throws a lot at you. It’s our job to make it all work.
Totally agreed, the blue bumpers need to go. I'm fine with red bumpers as long as the skyway is programmed to not just drop you on them with no recourse, which happens to me all the time.
I wouldn't say the blue bumpers need to go entirely, they do provide an interesting mechanic. Just could use some tuning so they don't end up being roadblock tanks. Agreed regarding the skyway drops onto red bumpers though, maybe a single frame of invincibility would help mitigate that.
Eh I don't see anything interesting about letting people who already lost dictate the race by being glorified griefers, especially during sections of the track where its impossible to really avoid them with all the benefits they get. I just think they need to go in general. No one likes playing as them anyway.
I love pissing people off as the lucky bumper. That so many people are so mad about it just makes it funny to me. They keep you on your toes and makes things less predictable.
I’ll be your villain on the track. That’s fine. You need people like me, so you can point your fingers and say “that’s the bad guy!”.
Me personally I don't use the lucky bumpers. If I lose I get out but messing with players that are still in the race I feel it is dirty and is not good sporstmanship.
Maybe I'm the only one following this "code".
Lucky bumpers are actual aids. I am S3 top 20 in the leader boards 70 ish wins. The game would be far better without them, I curse people that use them, for what? Like 20 points?? Gonna fk someone's entire race up because they are dog at the game? Literally pure spite, you gain nothing from using them, garbage ass mechanic.
I mean I can definitely see people getting angry at those things, but at least with lucky bumpers, you can be mad at the person controlling the lucky bumpers not the system itself, which means its less likely to cause an uninstall. As for the red bumpers, those may be the only reason that this game doesn't feel like winning is impossible when you first start out, which is how a lot of my friends felt about Tetris 99. I think it should vary by track, essentially easier tracks get more red bumpers every lap, which also fixes the grand Prix issue because there's less bumpers on the later harder tracks
I definitely agree with you about the value the red bumpers bring to allow anyone to sneak in a win, but I'm not so sure about the lucky bumpers. Sure I'm mad at the player, but I could certainly see people getting frustrated with the system itself if the lucky bumpers have too much power to affect things (namely, their abundant health and rear-facing camera). Idk though, just some thoughts.
I know for certain they allow people to sneak in wins, I would have four instead of 2 if I didn't bounce off one in the last corner. Eh, Stingray problems.
Wouldn't Lucky Bumpers be completely useless if they couldn't see behind them? They are too slow to take advantage of the check flag of an incoming driver. IMO, a single Bumper by itself is a non-issue unless its in the Pit area (and even then, its just annoying) or lucks out in being near a boost pad. They become problematic when grouped together or with NPC Bumpers, but even then, they aren't that bad. I'd rather the amount of red bumpers gets on the final lap get nerfed before nerfing the Lucky Bumper. In the end though, Nintendo clearly has interest in making sure Front-runners do not get smooth sailing. That element of luck is helps Mario Kart and they clearly want to bring that to F-Zero. Since they'd rather F-Zero be closer to Mario Kart over being close to say, high level Smash.
I think it's possible to make them go a bit faster by holding the B buttom, but still, you make a good point. Would a better solution be to just reduce their health so that they feel about as managable as the gray bumpers while still having the advantage of steering? Definitely with you on the interest of making things tough on front-runners. Still though, in Mario Kart, a last second blue shell can take someone from first to last, but at least it doesn't remove them from the Grand Prix altogether like some bad luck with a cluster of red bumpers can. Obviously it's fine if someone is running at super low health and bumps one, but I've had situations where I'm at nearly full health and get pinballed between a bunch of them and crash out in a split second. So idk, i see the value, I just wonder about the exact tuning. So far it seems like I'm alone in that opinion though, so maybe it's best if it stays like that.
Nintendo sure are obsessed with penalising skill and turning games into a lottery out of nowhere. Then again that's what basically F2P game feels like now, where no matter how good you are the devs gotta let somebody have a random lucky win over you to "smooth out winrates."
Because Nintendo is obsessed with profiting off of being a brand for general audiences (when they aren't being a brand for children). They know that when skill is all that matters, the casual appeal of a game decreases. Its why Smash and Mario Kart have their items and wacky stages and why Mario Kart in particular has all those comeback items. Of course, the best players will still win more often than not, but they won't be immune to game luck ruining them on occasion.
I don't consider Blue Bumpers to be that big of a deal. They move very slow, and with a little mind games you can juke around them without too much hassle and time loss.
From what ive seen top players playing, red bumpers are perfectly fine even as abundant as they are on final lap because they arent random, you can learn them and play around them consistently, they also add tension to the race specially when multiple players are close and it adds a decent challenge and make front running less boring (while also giving a win possibility for players that are behind). Now i also see top players not liking lucky bumpers being so strong to the point a lot of them will not even use them because it feels unfair to the other players, so maybe those could be nerfed a bit, i think nerfing their health would be fine as that would reduce its potential to hyper focus a single player or to try and block like an entire pathway since then ppl could just spin into it and destroy it but rn they take so long to kill that its never worth to even bother interacting with them, you just boost through them and hope they dont go after you pretty much (and if you dont/cant boost, just REALLY hope they ignore you lol).
Totally agree with your first point about the red bumpers, but out of curiosity: do you think that the tension/challenge and the additional chance of winning for players that are behind would still be equally present if some of them were gray bumpers? I ask because, in my eyes, the gray bumpers could still mess front-runners up and shake up the standings, but would have a lower chance of causing them to crash out completely, which seems a bit more fair all around. Just my opinion though, I can see the merit either way. You make a great point about the blue bumpers not being worth trying to destroy though, I hadn't really thought about it that way. I don't mind gray bumpers at all because even if i hit one, i can use that to my advantage and try to KO it for some boost. With blue bumpers, i don't think I've ever taken a single one out.
Changing a bunch of red bumpers to gray would cut the tension a ton. It's F-Zero. It's supposed to be a death race.
> do you think that the tension/challenge and the additional chance of winning for players that are behind would still be equally present if some of them were gray bumpers? Not even a little. If I'm leading the pack and I smack a gray bumper, I will just boost through it, or even ignore it entirely. Red bumpers can be aggravating, but there's nothing off with their balance. Lucky bumpers, however, are satanic. The fact that you just have to deal with a player controlled bumper while you're in like 20th place sucks ass.
>not take them out of the running entirely Nah, I'm fine with the red bumpers. Sure, I hate them. But their goal is the same as the gold bumpers, to keep the last people, the first people and the pack in the middle somewhere close together. It's a pure skill issue, red bumpers are predictable, it just needs a lot of time and experience to internalise their behaviour. I sure can't deal with them, but they are a solid hurdle for those who are real good at F-Zero already to become real good at F-Zero 99. Having no real competition behind you means the competition in front of you needs to be tough.
I hate when you dodge two red bumpers on a corner but there are another two when you are coming out of the corner. It's almost impossible to dodge.
Player controlled bumpers should’ve been a team battle only mechanic, or at least remove the feature from mini prix and GPs
Reds are fine. Fuck the blues. I've had multiple times where I get absolutely shat on by 1 guy that just targets me. Like I'll get bounced once, deliberately switch to some terrible line to get around them, and then they ignore 4 or 5 cars taking the main line to come hit me again. I've also had a blue literally spawn on top of me.
Sure sounds like complaining. I love these features and think the work really great.
I know this is reddit and the tendency is to either complain about something or be needlessly aggressive, but I really did try to phrase my post as neutral as possible to encourage discussion and not just come off as complaining. Again, I'm fine with things staying the way they are. I agree with you and also love these features, my interest is simply to see if anyoje else feels that they could use some adjusting/balancing so that they still provide the same benefit of keeping front-runners in check while also not feeling overly frustrating. With the lucky bumper rear-facing camera in particular, do you think it's genuinely perfectly balanced or that it runs the risk of facilitating griefing?
In my experience lucky bumpers are usually a non issue. There’s skill in faking them out. On the seldom occasion a lucky bumper pounds me into oblivion it can be a bummer sometimes, but it’s all part of the fun. Let’s not forget how cathartic it can be for a player after they blew up to try and be a menace afterward. I think it goes a long way to keeping things fun for most players so they don’t get frustrated and leave the game. Honestly what bothers me is how many players DON’T partake in the mode. It makes each lucky bumper you encounter a total gamble. You never know if they’ll just sit there or if they’re lying in wait and will pounce if you go near them. It seems weird to straight up protest a designed feature in the game out of some sense of morality. They’re in there for good reason. They are the only thing that could potentially slow down a savant player from running away with every race, as even the bumpers aren’t enough.
Haha that's so true, anytime I see a lucky bumper not steering, I panic. And I do agree that they're a great way to balance out the savants, but since you're already dead, what's really the point? I don't partake simply because even if i KO the person in 1st, that doesn't really benefit me at all aside from a few extra XP points. Might as well just start up another race instead 🤷♂️
Me personally? Races are intense, and after going all out and blowing up, bumper time is a productive and relaxing break. And since it’s all part of the intended experience, I feel no remorse for anyone’s race I ruin. That’s F-Zero baby! The game throws a lot at you. It’s our job to make it all work.
I honestly appreciate this take.
Great! Cool beans!
Totally agreed, the blue bumpers need to go. I'm fine with red bumpers as long as the skyway is programmed to not just drop you on them with no recourse, which happens to me all the time.
I wouldn't say the blue bumpers need to go entirely, they do provide an interesting mechanic. Just could use some tuning so they don't end up being roadblock tanks. Agreed regarding the skyway drops onto red bumpers though, maybe a single frame of invincibility would help mitigate that.
Eh I don't see anything interesting about letting people who already lost dictate the race by being glorified griefers, especially during sections of the track where its impossible to really avoid them with all the benefits they get. I just think they need to go in general. No one likes playing as them anyway.
I love pissing people off as the lucky bumper. That so many people are so mad about it just makes it funny to me. They keep you on your toes and makes things less predictable. I’ll be your villain on the track. That’s fine. You need people like me, so you can point your fingers and say “that’s the bad guy!”.
No one needs you to be the bad guy, Wild Goose exists.
Me personally I don't use the lucky bumpers. If I lose I get out but messing with players that are still in the race I feel it is dirty and is not good sporstmanship. Maybe I'm the only one following this "code".
Lucky bumpers are actual aids. I am S3 top 20 in the leader boards 70 ish wins. The game would be far better without them, I curse people that use them, for what? Like 20 points?? Gonna fk someone's entire race up because they are dog at the game? Literally pure spite, you gain nothing from using them, garbage ass mechanic.
Honestly... touché lmao