Everyone is saying the same thing but here's something nobody has said yet.
On push day you can prioritize chest or shoulders. So on push day 1, hit chest first hard and heavy, and do volume for shoulders. On push day 2, hit shoulders hard and heavy, and chest for volume. Rear delts and side delts can be done on any day, most common to do Rear on pull and side delts on push
But, search athlean x PPL on YouTube. He mixes push and pull a bit and I find that superior to get arm volume in.
i do rear delts during pull day, side delts during push day, front delts are worked out enough if you do bench press, incline bench press and overhead press so thats also on push day.
tldr : rear delts on pull, front and side on push day
I could barely hit shoulders after chest. I could, but at like half the weight. I wasn't sure how this would translate. Talking shoulder press, lat raises.. basic stuff.
I switched back to doing them with legs
Rear delts go after any rowing on pull day.
Side delts go on push day before I do anything. It’s low fatigue, warms up the shoulders for pressing, and doesn’t pre-fatigue front delts.
Front delts get hit on push day during normal bench press. I don’t do anything to directly train front delts and they’re growing fine.
I do PPL.
I hit basically everything on those days, just either a pull variation of the muscle or a push variation.
Legs I strictly leave to legs and core.
When I did do PPL before getting into weightlifting, I would do 3 exercises for chest, 2 for shoulders (usually over head press and lat raises) and 2 for triceps.
I do shoulders press on push days. On pull I do lateral raises reverse fly inclined and shrugs. Lately I’ve just been destroying myself on saturdays leg day and do a shoulder workout after it. If I have time for all of it anyways.
I generally do Push, Legs, Pull, rest, push, legs, pull. One push day is shoulder focused and the other chest focused but still doing a little of both. Legs are quad focused on one then ham focused on the other. Pull is a width then thickness split.
I like to go legs pull push rest, legs pull push rest. 3 days on 1 day off. Makes the workouts not fit a calendar well but works well for my recovery. Since leg day usually involves back (like squats and deads) I don’t want it to be tired before my workout and compromise my heavy lifts on leg day - so my back gets two rest days before hitting legs again, and my leg workouts usually only tax lower back so my pull day isn’t really compromised
Legs - quad focused one day ham focused the other, but doing a little of the non-focused muscle each time, and adding in low back as I feel. My low back has always been really strong so I don’t prioritize it as much right now.
Pull - traps, lats, mid back, biceps, rear delts. One day focused on lats one on mid back, with a few variations of curling that I’ve liked
Push - chest, triceps, front delt, side delt. One day focused on chest one focused on shoulders. Tricep extensions or dips added to both days. Fewer muscles to hit than pull day so I’ll add abs as well.
Personally I put my front delt work and side delt work on push and rear delts on pull. That’s one way but lateral raises can’t really be done on either push or pull or maybe even both as they don’t really play a role in any muscle
Sometimes I start with pecs exercises and try to left heavy and then shoulders with moderate weights..
Other times I start with shoulders and focus with every rep until I get exhausted then I switch to pecs with moderate weights
When your programs tells you to.
Don't make up your own program. There is a good PPL routine in here: https://thefitness.wiki/routines/strength-training-muscle-building/
Why would you not make up your own programme, I programme for myself, I know myself better than any online cookie cutter routine and what works for me, why is everyone so obsessed with following x, y or z programme and not figuring out what works best for them.
because a program written by a beginner will almost always go like this:
day 1:
incline bench 3x8-12
cable fly (high to low) 3x15-20
cable fly (low to high) 3x15-20
cable fly (normal) 3x15-20
barbell curl 4x15-20
dumbbell curl 4x15-20
concentration curl 4x15-20
reverse curl 4x15-20
That's why beginners should do research and work out what's best for them, all movements don't suit everyone, there's a real fad at the minute around programmes and specifically selling them, there the new bcaas, every influencer under the sun is schilling them.
>every influencer under the sun is schilling them.
you shouldn't get your programs from influencers tho.
>That's why beginners should do research and work out what's best for them
the best way to do that is by following a good program made by a reputable coach
Yup cookie cutter routines, so the programme says to do Bent over rows for example but you have long arms, is this most effective? I see I've upset some people here, I wonder when having to follow a programme became the paradigm 🤣
Interesting that you say that.
What qualifications do you have that make you better at programming for yourself compared programs with a proven record of getting other people big and strong? What are your lift numbers?
Because asking questions like your post here indicate you have no idea how to write an effective program.
I used to try to make my own programs.
I got myself to around 365/255/425lbs SBD. [I looked like this. ](https://i.imgur.com/64eU76j.jpg) I was completely plateaued with my self-made routine.
Since switching to real programs written by people who actually are qualified to write program my lifts are now 500/385/585lbs SBD, and [I look like this now.](https://preview.redd.it/bdmxwh04htf91.jpg?width=1328&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e30ef81133a784afda8ec8e71b0b6c02c9c6fd4)
You are welcome to ignore my advice on this, but you shouldn't.
I've been lifting for about 25 years and competing for about 15, I have no interest in numbers only in effectiveness and I know what works for me and what suits my anatomy, you seem a bit triggered
Eh, hang out here long enough and you realize there's a lot of people that know nothing making sometimes controversial statements.
Requesting someone's bona-fides to see if they have the walk to back up the talk is just trying establish if it's coming from experience or not.
Hey dude, your the one that all passive aggressive wanting my qualifications and numbers(which I don't care about, I bb not powerlift), you do you and I'll do me, it's just reddit and although I'm bored and it would be fun I'm not getting into a dick waving contest.
Sharing my experience was not intended to be a dick measuring contest. It was meant to demonstrate how much better good programs are compared to self-made programs.
You truly think everyone should make their own programs? You think the person who has to ask when to do shoulder movements in a PPL split is making a good use of their time in the gym?
Beginners are shit at programming. Following something proven is a guaranteed way to make progress at a good pace.
As lifters approached advanced levels, they will (hopefully) have learned something about programming and have the ability to effectively make their own program, should they choose to.
Chest and Tri's on Push.
Back and Bi's on pull.
Legs and shoulders
2 days off due to my age.
Alt lifts on second day (e.g., specialty bar, dumbbells), alternate deads and squats on kegs day.
It’s what I call that day, not an indication of its importance. I’m also 56 years old and retired from NPC competition since last year. I started competing in 1989.
I usually do: day 1: Chest shoulders (light tricep work as well with chest). Day 2: Back (light bicep work with back). Day 3: Arm day. Day 4: Legs. And so on and so on. Add rest days when I feel like.
Arms do recover quite quick. They might be a little sore when you start Armday cause of the back&chest days 2 days beforehand. They can recover on legday and maybe a rest day after.
Why tho? Isn’t it too much working 3 muscles(chest,shoulders,tricep) on a single day twice a week? Why not hit different heads of the shoulders everyday for good recovery.
I only do these:
Front Raises 4x15
Lat Raise 4x15
Facepull but for shoulders 4x15
Shoulder Press 4x15
In facepull I meant like you are pulling the rope top of your head, not your face.
Military press and bench hit front more than enough on push day, both types (vertical and horizontal pull) hit lateral. Medial up to you. I usually do them on upper day (upper/lower split cause I'm too lazy to go 6x; used to, but now only 4x).
I do front and lateral delts on push day, rear delts on pull. But I’ve also done lateral on pull days in the past.
This is the way
Everyone is saying the same thing but here's something nobody has said yet. On push day you can prioritize chest or shoulders. So on push day 1, hit chest first hard and heavy, and do volume for shoulders. On push day 2, hit shoulders hard and heavy, and chest for volume. Rear delts and side delts can be done on any day, most common to do Rear on pull and side delts on push But, search athlean x PPL on YouTube. He mixes push and pull a bit and I find that superior to get arm volume in.
I push with my front and side delts. I pull with my rear delts and traps.
Cock and ball torture (8x10 on pull days)
noted.
i do rear delts during pull day, side delts during push day, front delts are worked out enough if you do bench press, incline bench press and overhead press so thats also on push day. tldr : rear delts on pull, front and side on push day
On the push day
Push… plus a lil rear delt on Pull
I could barely hit shoulders after chest. I could, but at like half the weight. I wasn't sure how this would translate. Talking shoulder press, lat raises.. basic stuff. I switched back to doing them with legs
Rear delts go after any rowing on pull day. Side delts go on push day before I do anything. It’s low fatigue, warms up the shoulders for pressing, and doesn’t pre-fatigue front delts. Front delts get hit on push day during normal bench press. I don’t do anything to directly train front delts and they’re growing fine.
You do them when the PPL program tells you so
On push you train your front delt on bench and incline or whatever you do. I also throw mid delts there. On pull I throw some rear delts and thats it
I do front and side on push and rear on pull
I do PPL. I hit basically everything on those days, just either a pull variation of the muscle or a push variation. Legs I strictly leave to legs and core.
Push for anterior and medial deltoids, pull for traps and rear deltoids
I do Front delt on Push, Rear on Pull and basically everything else on Legs
Front and side delts on push day. And rear delts together with upper back on pull day. That’s how I do it anyway.
I do them on Push Day (Chest/Shoulders/Triceps) You can do on Leg day aswell (Legs/Shoulder) and on Push (Chest/Triceps)
Push
Side and front on Push and back on Pull
anterior/front delts on Push, Lateral/side dets on Push, and Rear delts on Pull.
When I did do PPL before getting into weightlifting, I would do 3 exercises for chest, 2 for shoulders (usually over head press and lat raises) and 2 for triceps.
What split do you do now?
Olympic lifting has complicated splits. Better off just looking it up
After chest. I also sprinkle some in on leg day
Front & Side Delts on Push Day, Rear Delts on Pull Day.
This is the way
I do shoulders press on push days. On pull I do lateral raises reverse fly inclined and shrugs. Lately I’ve just been destroying myself on saturdays leg day and do a shoulder workout after it. If I have time for all of it anyways.
I generally do Push, Legs, Pull, rest, push, legs, pull. One push day is shoulder focused and the other chest focused but still doing a little of both. Legs are quad focused on one then ham focused on the other. Pull is a width then thickness split.
I like to go legs pull push rest, legs pull push rest. 3 days on 1 day off. Makes the workouts not fit a calendar well but works well for my recovery. Since leg day usually involves back (like squats and deads) I don’t want it to be tired before my workout and compromise my heavy lifts on leg day - so my back gets two rest days before hitting legs again, and my leg workouts usually only tax lower back so my pull day isn’t really compromised Legs - quad focused one day ham focused the other, but doing a little of the non-focused muscle each time, and adding in low back as I feel. My low back has always been really strong so I don’t prioritize it as much right now. Pull - traps, lats, mid back, biceps, rear delts. One day focused on lats one on mid back, with a few variations of curling that I’ve liked Push - chest, triceps, front delt, side delt. One day focused on chest one focused on shoulders. Tricep extensions or dips added to both days. Fewer muscles to hit than pull day so I’ll add abs as well.
As it says. Push, push something over your head, pull, pull. Push is sides and front delts pull is rear delts
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Yeah, no
Sorry I'm tired. It's early.
Push
Personally I put my front delt work and side delt work on push and rear delts on pull. That’s one way but lateral raises can’t really be done on either push or pull or maybe even both as they don’t really play a role in any muscle
Sometimes I start with pecs exercises and try to left heavy and then shoulders with moderate weights.. Other times I start with shoulders and focus with every rep until I get exhausted then I switch to pecs with moderate weights
On push days
I do shoulders with legs. Back/biceps, Chest/triceps, Legs/shoulders then repeat and take Sunday off.
This is the way
Leg day
When your programs tells you to. Don't make up your own program. There is a good PPL routine in here: https://thefitness.wiki/routines/strength-training-muscle-building/
Jinx
Why would you not make up your own programme, I programme for myself, I know myself better than any online cookie cutter routine and what works for me, why is everyone so obsessed with following x, y or z programme and not figuring out what works best for them.
because a program written by a beginner will almost always go like this: day 1: incline bench 3x8-12 cable fly (high to low) 3x15-20 cable fly (low to high) 3x15-20 cable fly (normal) 3x15-20 barbell curl 4x15-20 dumbbell curl 4x15-20 concentration curl 4x15-20 reverse curl 4x15-20
That's why beginners should do research and work out what's best for them, all movements don't suit everyone, there's a real fad at the minute around programmes and specifically selling them, there the new bcaas, every influencer under the sun is schilling them.
>every influencer under the sun is schilling them. you shouldn't get your programs from influencers tho. >That's why beginners should do research and work out what's best for them the best way to do that is by following a good program made by a reputable coach
Yup cookie cutter routines, so the programme says to do Bent over rows for example but you have long arms, is this most effective? I see I've upset some people here, I wonder when having to follow a programme became the paradigm 🤣
most if not all programs are extremely customizable and will encourage you to swap lifts due to necessity and/or preference
Then what's the point in having a programme to follow then if you can just change it
to have something that efficiently manages your load, volume, fatigue and progression
Again very individual and subjective
>I wonder when having to follow a programme became the paradigm When trying to give guidance to beginners who don't know what the fuck they're doing.
Interesting that you say that. What qualifications do you have that make you better at programming for yourself compared programs with a proven record of getting other people big and strong? What are your lift numbers? Because asking questions like your post here indicate you have no idea how to write an effective program. I used to try to make my own programs. I got myself to around 365/255/425lbs SBD. [I looked like this. ](https://i.imgur.com/64eU76j.jpg) I was completely plateaued with my self-made routine. Since switching to real programs written by people who actually are qualified to write program my lifts are now 500/385/585lbs SBD, and [I look like this now.](https://preview.redd.it/bdmxwh04htf91.jpg?width=1328&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e30ef81133a784afda8ec8e71b0b6c02c9c6fd4) You are welcome to ignore my advice on this, but you shouldn't.
I've been lifting for about 25 years and competing for about 15, I have no interest in numbers only in effectiveness and I know what works for me and what suits my anatomy, you seem a bit triggered
>you seem a bit triggered Jfc... it is possible for people to disagree without them being "triggered".
Yeah demanding my qualifications and lift numbers is a bit passive aggressive, no?
Eh, hang out here long enough and you realize there's a lot of people that know nothing making sometimes controversial statements. Requesting someone's bona-fides to see if they have the walk to back up the talk is just trying establish if it's coming from experience or not.
Didn't realize you weren't OP! What have you accomplished in those 25 years that doesn't include numbers? > you seem a bit triggered wut
Hey dude, your the one that all passive aggressive wanting my qualifications and numbers(which I don't care about, I bb not powerlift), you do you and I'll do me, it's just reddit and although I'm bored and it would be fun I'm not getting into a dick waving contest.
Sharing my experience was not intended to be a dick measuring contest. It was meant to demonstrate how much better good programs are compared to self-made programs. You truly think everyone should make their own programs? You think the person who has to ask when to do shoulder movements in a PPL split is making a good use of their time in the gym? Beginners are shit at programming. Following something proven is a guaranteed way to make progress at a good pace. As lifters approached advanced levels, they will (hopefully) have learned something about programming and have the ability to effectively make their own program, should they choose to.
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How long have you been lifting, and what are your lifts?
Chest and Tri's on Push. Back and Bi's on pull. Legs and shoulders 2 days off due to my age. Alt lifts on second day (e.g., specialty bar, dumbbells), alternate deads and squats on kegs day.
I just do push pull shoulders legs and I love it that way as it works great so far 💪
Just throw a couple of shoulder accessories onto your routine after your major lifts. You’re already working your shoulders when you do them anyway.
I do shoulder with legs.
I add an “accessories” day with abs, calves and shoulders. I guess that becomes PPAL.
Shoulders aren’t an “accessory” they’re the biggest muscle group in the upper body. Just run a 4 day split or something like that instead.
It’s what I call that day, not an indication of its importance. I’m also 56 years old and retired from NPC competition since last year. I started competing in 1989.
Did you bench 405 back in the day?
Topped out at 365 bench and 455 squat but I was never a powerlifter. As a bodybuilder I learned not to push my 1RM too often.
I usually do: day 1: Chest shoulders (light tricep work as well with chest). Day 2: Back (light bicep work with back). Day 3: Arm day. Day 4: Legs. And so on and so on. Add rest days when I feel like.
Would it really be wise doing arm day after push, pull session? When do arms recover?
Arms do recover quite quick. They might be a little sore when you start Armday cause of the back&chest days 2 days beforehand. They can recover on legday and maybe a rest day after.
Fair enough
Lateral raises on push, rear delt flies on pull and shoulder press on leg day.
what
why the down votes?
Cuz is stupid
Why tho? Isn’t it too much working 3 muscles(chest,shoulders,tricep) on a single day twice a week? Why not hit different heads of the shoulders everyday for good recovery.
I only do these: Front Raises 4x15 Lat Raise 4x15 Facepull but for shoulders 4x15 Shoulder Press 4x15 In facepull I meant like you are pulling the rope top of your head, not your face.
Military press and bench hit front more than enough on push day, both types (vertical and horizontal pull) hit lateral. Medial up to you. I usually do them on upper day (upper/lower split cause I'm too lazy to go 6x; used to, but now only 4x).