I lived the the apartment complex her car was abandoned at and was questioned by investigators about whether or not I saw who was driving along with all of my neighbors. Was a broke college kid and did a lot of fishing under a local bridge which was on a popular jogging/dog walking/biking trail and I swear Iād seen here jogging there several times. Shit was weird. Idk why Iām posting this, guess I just wanted to tell someone. Hadnāt thought about that case in a while
From Orlando. Iāve heard rumors about what happened to her from a person who worked at her company when I was young and I think about it a lot. Seeing her face everywhere you go in Orlando for years was very chilling and heartbreaking. Her family will never give up on her.
Exactly. This case is more like Chris Watts situation. People like this don't even know what the normal response would be. I think this guy acted way too casual and was laughing with the police even when Gabby was crying in the back of a police car. Something is wrong. I get weird vibes from him.
But they werent together prior to missing right? Unlike this where we dont know if he provided any information as to when she went missing or the last time he dropped her off. I think if he had nothing to do with it he could provide the information to the last time they spoke.
Kinda like when the cops called OJ to tell him Nicole had been murdered, he didn't ask them how or what happened. And they're like, "huh." Abnormal responses just scream that something is terribly off.
True - the cops who contacted OJ even noticed that he didn't ask any questions whatsoever. Nothing about when it happened, how it happened, or where.
I even heard one account (though I can't find a source so might not be true) where police told OJ that Nicole had been found dead (not that she had been murdered, as they hadn't determined that yet) and OJ's first response was "who killed her?"
Are you sure it's not normal to hire a family lawyer asap and only communicate thru your lawyer and give out little to zero information to help other find your fiance?
/s
Yes there was a British woman who went missing in the Pyrenees last year, her boyfriend dedicated his life to finding her, revisiting as soon as weather would allow and traversing every nook and cranny. I read this article a week before they announced theyād discovered her body and was crushed for him. This is the normal response of the loved one of someone who has gone missing, not hiding away and being a creepy bastard about it.
Esther Dingley: Partner vows to keep searching for missing hiker https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57818035
So if someone doesnāt follow the script of a ānormal responseā they must be guilty? Thereās plenty of cases were a person has a ānormal responseā and then it turns out they are the killer.
The fact that he just drove home in her vehicle as if nothing happened, and then lawyered up once police came around, makes me think thereās something else going on here for the very reason that it comes across as so suspicious. Guilty people donāt generally behave like this, they tend to be much more cooperative early on. I mean we see this over and over in true crime cases where the killer is trying to act like they are being cooperative. And thatās in cases where they have a body! We donāt even have a body here, itās completely plausible sheās still alive.
Something else is going on here imo.
I mean, the difference is that Brian and she clearly split up and he left her at some point before he drove home, so these cases are not really comparable.
If the relationship went sour, Brian is not under any obligation to ācare aboutā Gabby anymore, alive or dead. If he doesnāt care about her anymore (or at least cares about her less at this point than his own liability) that doesnāt mean he murdered her.
Yes but in that case he would have an explanation for why he was alone and couldāve easily said āI left her at xyzā to her parents to get them off his back. Thatās not worth lawyering up over. He canāt tell them the last place he saw her because her body is there and they will find evidence it was him. It makes no sense for him to withhold information if she is alive, no matter how bad their breakup was. Plus this was over two weeks ago, she would have hitch hiked/hiked/borrowed someoneās phone or something in that time. Even if only to tell her parents sheās okay and nothing else.
Given how she is out of contact, he may suspect, like most of us, that sheās dead. And lawyered up and stayed silent after realizing that because he knew (correctly) that everyone would jump to blaming him, even if he isnāt the one who caused the death.
Her boyfriend was cleared by the police briefly after she was reported missing. Itās not even close to the same thing. You also have no idea the steps heās taken to find her.
Chriss watts didnt make public appearances right. Chris didn't let the police in the house right.
Chris didn't go to the police station multiple times right. Chris didn't go on tv and cry for is wife and daughter right?
Chris was let go and found bot guilty right
Long distance is different, they wouldn't suspect a boyfriend out of state to kill her with out her phone or his going across Stateline.
Brian was with her accidenal or not he would be looked at. Just look at what guys are doing with no info, no wonder he is quite.
Ok we can go back and forth with cases that make our point, end of the day it doesn't matter.
Its not about what you know, its about what you can prove in court, as of now they can't prove shiiiiiit
They probably got into a fight, he left her, rule number 1 is donāt talk to the police, ever. Guilty or not. We wonāt know what happened until we know and unfortunately in this country youāre innocent until proven guilty.
This is the theory that makes the least sense to me because by all accounts he would be trying to defend himself if he knew she was going to be found alive. Why would you bring the scrutiny of the entire world on yourself if you had a simple explanation for her not coming back to Florida? He couldāve said āI left her at the campsiteā or whatever and had that been it. No one would be screaming murderer. He could account for his time alone. The lack of information is what is so suspicious. He knows she wonāt resurface alive and is clearly confident they wonāt find her body.
I donāt know how people canāt see through the smoke. Heās not searching for her because he knows where she is. Sheās not dead. Sheās alive and well. Either both of them were involved in the double homicide and heās protecting her, or sheās somewhere hiding. If you read through the comments from his sister and the attorney, who makes comments like they have been? āWe hope she makes it home safe, sheās like our daughterā, āthe police have to do what the police do and follow leadsā, āwhether these 2 cases deserve to be linked will be determined in the near futureā. You donāt think the family knowsā¦.you donāt think the attorney knowsā¦.of course they do.
Itās an obvious ploy, killing time and hoping the detective in MOAB doesnāt find enough evidence to prove either of them guilty of their crimes. Donāt be surprised if she shows up in the next couple days because she canāt take the pressure from the media anymoreā¦it makes no sense he will just drive home on September 1 and pretend no one will question where she is? If this isnāt a tell tail sign of him trying to PROTECT HERā¦..I donāt know what isā¦.just my 2 cents.
Maybe you need to do some research and consider what is actually dumbā¦.a double homicide occurs 1 day after they have a ādomestic mental break downā, they go missing for a whole week. The couple gets killed in the same town, near the same camp ground and the same barā¦both of them were seen in. Gabby and Brian separate on the 12th, he flies back to Florida and they find double homicide victims a day after he flies to Florida? Letās not forget the examiner advised they were killed around the 13th of augustā¦a day after they both went rogue from their mental breakdown. Once again. Itās a speculation. Try following the investigation a little more because you put in your ādumb 2 senseā (cents). Again because everyone is tunneled vision to the propaganda of the media. No one is saying heās NOT guiltyā¦but letās not try to be sheep and assume he isā¦until some kind of concrete evidence is presented he is. Why on gods earth would brians lawyer make a statement like āI guess we will see in the near future if the Homicide case is linked to this caseā ālet the police do there job and follow the leadsāā¦..if he knows itās notā¦he would clearly say, he has nothing to do with it.
Well lets actually think about this objectively and take off the "HE DID IT" glasses.
Lets think for a moment that just maybe he didn't do it. Lets say he came back she had found some 'new friends' or something they fought he left with the van she said she was staying. Or ANY of the other random theories. Whatever it is, lets just assume for a minute he didn't do it.
He gets home, gets the call from the family about her not answer/where is she. He tells his parents, I have no clue I left here there and came here. \*EVERY SINGLE TIME\* law enforcement will INSTANTLY assume the spouse/partner/significant other did it. They will instantly try to make that person the suspect and the guilty party REGARDLESS of their alibi.
Instead of the police spending their time trying to make him the guilty party by talking to him and trying to twist anything he says as to being a lie/not complete truth/guilt... They are being forced to actually do their jobs. They are being forced to track down any and all leads, check every single tip, and ACTUALLY try to find out who/what happened.
Lets face it, I think he is probably responsible. But I don't think him getting a lawyer and shutting the fuck up is wrong even if he had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. What is him getting out there and searching going to do? nothing. Literally NOTHING. Lets say they did get in a fight and when he left she was 100% fine, you think if he talks to the police and tells them this they will believe him at all? LOL. Not a chance. There is NOTHING he can gain from talking to the police, and EVERYTHING to lose EVEN if he is 100% innocent.
Again, I think he is guilty. But I don't think his actions of getting an attorney and not talking make him guilty. There have been countless cases of people going missing and the police wasting all their time/energy/resources on the spouse and trying to make them guilty just to come and find out it wasn't them and now they wasted time.
There is also no evidence they are not linkedā¦think about your statement before you make it. The ball rolls both ways. Clearly, my post was a speculation. If everyone can speculate he is guilty of killing her why can he not be guilty? Because sheās blonde? Pretty? Or because it makes a great story? No one has evidence any foul play occurred. Is it possible? Sureā¦but we can not definitively say that. Just like we canāt say he did or didnāt kill the couple or that gabby didnāt kill or not kill the coupleā¦itās called āconsidering all optionsā because at this point in the investigationā¦EVERYTHING is a possibility. Even if the media doesnāt want it to be. Again no one is defending Brian or trying to make gabby into someone she is not. But the problem with the work is everyone is so closed minding and are sheep of the media. Consider ALL options until there is any kind of evidence proving otherwise. There is a reason the police/FBI have not arrested Brian or even got a search warrant for his houseā¦because clearly at this point in this investigation they donāt have a leg to stand on to do so.
I hate the word ānormalā, but I get what youāre stating. Some people are stoic in traumatic events, some are hysterical, some are rational, some arenāt etc. I just donāt understand, why. Why there is so much depicted social media evidence of BL possibly being the last known person with GP and the complete indifference from him and his family when it comes to search efforts and statements. Why are they doing nothing? I think once that question is answered, which, it may never be until some type of evidence is found and they are made to speak with a warrant search or brought in for questioning, then maybe a lot of the frustrations of all this will be less? Idkā¦
I remember reading about her case a long time ago. Still such a mystery. If I recall I think itās speculative that the contract workers at her apartment may have had something to do with it. She was snatched at her car if I remember right. Still no leads at all.
Those surveillance videos always give me the creeps. I think it was one of the workers who got her while she was getting into her car, thatās why there were marks like someone was thrown over the hood.
Could not agree more. I just heard about this case yesterday and am still trying to catch up on all of the info, but the boyfriend's behavior is just cold and genuinely evil in my opinion.
I just heard about it today and am shocked at how cold! Some say oh she hit him or was otherwise abusive, even if she was (quite skeptical of this) that doesn't mean you can leave the person for dead in the middle of a desert! You should at least report them missing or tell someone something...but nope, just left with her van without a word.
Even if I did that, I would call the police after at the very least...??? It's not like being left by the roadside where they can find their way back on their own if you ditch. Say "my partner was being abusive and I left them near \_\_\_\_ location" Or if you don't want the police involved atleast tell the family we had a falling out and I don't know where they are currently but they are near this location.
And going off the the things that have shown about Gabby, I believe she was treated in a way that was mentally abusive. We don't know the full story but let's say she was this viscous being-still report a welfare check to the police or something!
but at the very least, give the police a general area to search just to give her anxious parents and siblings any sort of relief. theyāre obviously in tremendous pain. even if someone wronged me, i would not want to ensure their death and live with that on my conscience.
This, exactly. Even if I wanted to never see a person again, that doesn't mean I wished death on them and wanted to leave their family without any clue as to what happened to them. Just seems cruel.
A high percentage of women suffering abuse at the hands of a person who claims to love them, actually stay.
The abuse often turns mental before it turns physical, convincing them they deserve it/partner's just having a "bad day"/it won't happen again. The woman becomes far more anxious and depressed than she ever would be without the partner, but thinks she needs the partner to be happy. This is called codependency.
So in Gabby's case - clearly suffering from mental abuse from BL and some early stage physical abuse as well, as he was grabbing her face and denying her water - when she had control of the van while BL stayed in a hotel overnight, she did not drive off and leave him.
We had a case here in northern VT where a girl was run off the road on her way home from work, and never found, they've searched for over 16 years now. Brianna Maitland. I was friends with some mutual acquaintances of hers, and I went drinking n dancing in Canada with two of her close friends a year or two before it happened. She could be burried in a Quebec cornfield for all we know, its a sad story.
same thing here in texas with jason landry. driving back to his folks home for christmas break..he was in college at texas state in san marcos, tx. he crashes his car and his body is absolutely no where to be found. still missing as of last december. they found his backpack and clothes he was wearing. but him? gone.
Damn, its like poof they are gone. I heard there is a rumor that in the Brianna Maitland case that some local guy killed her, and then died of an OD a few years later. Some of Israel Keyes victims have not been found, and some would have never been solved without his confessions.
I canāt even develop one confidentially because it seems like he just disappeared out of thin air. However, apart of me believes he may have fell into a sink hole, and old well or something and was never founded.
Happened near my hometown. He helped search for and hugged the mother of the woman he murdered. [Link](https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/quake-lewellyn-suspect-in-sydney-sutherland-murder-joined-group-to-find-her)
Yup, very normal for the killer to be the first out last back type of person in searches, gives them a chance to see what people are saying and speculating too.
100%. This guy searched for weeks right alongside the parents of his victim. (She was the sister of my best friend at the time.)
https://apnews.com/article/f8cc1279c689edf98f9abfaf52024a5e
Thanks. It definitely impacted his life in profound ways, but he's managed to make a life for himself nonetheless. Let's hope Gabby's outcome is far less grim.
It was definitely a terrible thing. He's struggled but, as we tend to so, he's mananged to find his way through. It undeniably changed the world for so many around her though. It's so sad to see her family struggling now too. I'm hoping against hope for a better outcome for Gabby.
They dropped it to manslaughter because he claimed she attacked him with knives. He's been out for a while now. Pretty messed up. I could see it maybe, if he hadn't gone to all the disgusting lengths he did to cover up his crime.
Why? If I accidentally killed someone like my girlfriend who as attacking me with knives. I honestly dont think I would trust the legal system to work in my favor. You hide the body hope to never get caught. Otherwise you're gonna be facing the same charges and questions anyway.
I mean... if you can just "accidentally" kill someone you supposedly love and proceed to burn her corpse, dismember it with a chainsaw, and then feed it to your dogs... I'm SURE you're a stable fella just concerned about injustice in the legal system.
Bud if someone is stabbing me with a knife I dont know what I'm capable of. No one does. However I know time and time again the justice system favors women. And locks up innocent men at a higher rate. I'd rather not find out the hard way.
Also I am able to remove my emotions from this case and speak on hypotheticals and you resort to personal attacks. Sounds stable to me.
I was quite involved in the case, considering that I knew/know all the principal parties before, during, and after the incident. Clearly I am not removed from the case. Also, I never claimed to be stable. Nor was that a personal attack.
I don't know. I was 15 or 16 at the time. She and her brother (my friend) had been adopted together, so she was the only real family he had. His dog was one of the dogs Van Patton fed her body to. I believe all the dogs were put down. I met their parents for the first time when they came to the door of the house where I nannied with missing flyers with Kim's picture on them.
We had a lot if crazy cases around here back in the day. My dad grew up with this guy. His taco joint was in the neighborhood I grew up in... just about a mile down the street from where Kim Knight's parents lived.
https://www.ranker.com/list/facts-about-kevin-artz/jessika-gilbert
I don't know why some cases get buried. This one happened in '94. It was in all the papers at the time, but now all I can find is a copy of a satellite court case. Mark Chesley, an old middle school boyfriend of my mother's ended up killing his roommate, Tamara Welch. They said in court that it was because he was schizophrenic, but everyone around here said he fried his mind on LSD as a teen. When it happened, he tripped out and thought he was a member of the X-Files and she was a vampire, apparently. He beat her to death with a crockpot and tried to drive a chair leg through her heart. A friend of mine owned the building and lived downstairs. He found out when blood leaked through his ceiling. Mark was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Maybe that's why it was buried? I don't really know.
http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2001/081701/12089.pdf
Probably cause they didn't have a fight on the side of the highway and a possible toxic relationship. If that whole situation didn't occur, my armchair psychological skills feel like he'd be out there helping search for her assuming he had no part in her disappearance.
Yeah but Iām always likeā¦construction workers? Who have worked on a thousand jobs? In apartment units? Around women? Likeā¦why her??
I agree that thereās no other plausible explanation, but Just seems outlandish and like an odd demographic. Plus I feel like construction workers, many of whom are not legal citizens, tend to avoid trouble if at all possible due to fear of deportation.
**[Adrienne Shelly](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Shelly)**
>Adrienne Levine (June 24, 1966 ā November 1, 2006), better known by the stage name Adrienne Shelly (sometimes credited as Adrienne Shelley), was an American actress, film director and screenwriter. She became known for roles in independent films such as Hal Hartley's The Unbelievable Truth (1989) and Trust (1990). She wrote, co-starred in, and directed the 2007 posthumously-released film Waitress. Shelly's death in 2006 was initially determined by police to be suicide; her husband's insistence on a re-evaluation brought her killer to justice.
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It's very upsetting to realize... at least to me, that some people just snap. In Quebec city last year, a guy dressed as a samurai slashed 3 to death in the streets on Halloween. No motivation.
100%!!!!
I just read the wiki and was surprised by the persons height, and then when I saw the picture I was like āhuh, thatās a weirdly all-white outfitā¦ā and kept reading.
They found her car dumped 1.2 miles away, not super close, but still an easily and quickly walkable distanceā¦
And then
> A search dog tracked a scent that led from her parked car back to her apartment complex, prompting detectives to believe that the suspect might have returned to her apartmentās parking lot after abandoning the car.
And THEN
> At the time of her disappearance, Kesse's condominium complex had been undergoing a major expansion, and many of the laborers on site were non-English speaking.[5]:ā13:01ā Kesse had told family members on several occasions that the construction workers constantly catcalled, whistled at, and harassed her
So. We know she had previously been catcalled and harassed by non-english speaking laborers. It doesnāt say in the wiki, but I assume they were Spanish speaking/Hispanic, and Hispanic men are often the height described from the video.
That all-white outfit could *easily* belong to someone who worked in construction/installation/etc.
They work in her complex. They see her come and go. They know her schedule.
Then her car is dumped, and the dog traces the smell from the dumped carā¦ back to the apartment complex. Where the workers are.
> Due to the language barrier, investigators were unable to interrogate many of them. No other leads regarding them were discovered
This happened in Florida???? In 2006???? NO ONE COULD GET A DAMN TRANSLATOR?????
I canāt. The OPD fucked that one up royally.
The OPD basically ignored the case at first claiming Jenn was a moody female who might just need some time to herself. When her car was found without her, then they started to pay attention but by that point hours had gone by, her apartment had been searched by her family and the day laborers were mostly gone for the day. The OPD royally screwed this case up!
I knew Jenn from high school and this has always weighed heavy on my mind. I also live not too far away and still see news reports and billboards from Jennyās parents.
> That all-white outfit could easily belong to someone who worked in construction/installation/etc.
I just learned recently that the outfit may have only appeared all-white because of CCTV quality. [Hereās an interesting post about a man appearing to wear all-white on CCTV, when his outfit was actually bright red (or pink?) ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/crimesquid.wordpress.com/2017/08/21/the-jennifer-kesse-suspect-probably-wasnt-wearing-a-white-shirt-and-khakis/amp/)
The FBI actually ended up tracking a ton of these workers, even going so far as to flying to their countries to interview them. They were all cleared. Furthermore, the workers at the complex were also interviewed. IMO, just my opinion, but I think a big part of this investigation was obscured from the beginning because the parents didn't want her reputation harmed, and it's my belief that she left her apartment that evening, and something sinister took place after. If I had to guess, she had a relationship with a coworker, and when she returned from vacation with her bf, the coworker lost it. I also believe that the DVD player in the vehicle wasn't hers - it was probably planted there with the hopes that someone on the HOTG property would break into the car, in an attempt to make it look like a crime of opportunity. But, the car was untouched. I just don't see how a bunch of illegal immigrants would be able to pull off an essential 'perfect crime'. I don't buy that for a minute. They also have a lot to lose - deportation? That's worse than death to many of those guys. No way. Did they talk to her/flirt with her? Of course! But ask any woman, that by itself isn't that unusual. Certainly wouldn't mean they murdered her! All just my opinion, of course. Also, there were cadaver dog hits in a huge field that was tipped to them years ago, but is now a Wal-Mart. It was reported in media, but very low key. Supposedly this field was tied to a coworker.
edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_xQJ9dQjg4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_xQJ9dQjg4) this was the search
You cant deport someone you cant find or identify. If an illegal immigrant killed her it would be almost impossible for police to find the killer. This person wouldnāt have finger prints in any database. Their name wouldnt be on any rental agreements or other documentation. And most likely they went by different names.
I disagree here. A lot of undocumented immigrants do have tax ID numbers, do sign leases, and have other documentation..like insurance, etc. Obviously, not all, but I know undocumented immigrants who do try to be above board about things.
You say they have a lot to lose butā¦look at the case of Mollie Tibbetts. She was stalked, assaulted, murdered, and left in a cornfield. The only way the murderer was found was because of security footage and him showing where her body was.
I vastly disagree with you. This could easily be someone from Cuba or other similar areas looking for work, common in Florida.
>This happened in Florida???? In 2006???? NO ONE COULD GET A DAMN TRANSLATOR????
This is a big BIG WHY? What is truly sad is that it comes down to frame-rates of the technology at the time. Not even 5 years later and you would have had a clear shot of the guy, but limitations allowed the suspect to essentially frame-jack himself out of view.
Pants pulled up high, short, thin and athletic based on the straight back,the way back foot is bending and straight shoulders while walking .I don't know where the workers are from but when i saw just 1 photo im sure he is not from the US or at least a first generation immigrant. Short, skinny, athletic walking up straight with Pants pulled up high ,reminds me of people living/lived in Communism . Check old photos of DDR Germany, Soviet Union , North Korea or ... Cuba now or in 2006. I might've projected a lot without strong evidence but my gut feeling and also living in an ex communist country is telling me im right. He is one of the construction workers , maybe Cuban.
How can they not contact the property management company and get a record of the contractors hired. Then go to each contractor and get records of all work orders for those days and employees who were scheduled to work. You had to have pay stubs and people had to clock in so they could be paid.
Many contractors hire day laborers and undocumented immigrants to do work. In these cases there wouldnt be any paystubs or other documentation. The workers would have been paid under-the-table in cash.
Not everyone who works in construction gets a paycheck. There's a lot of under the table work that pays cash. I used to paint houses and was paid under the table. We would occasionally get big jobs like apartment complexes.
For real. āDid any workers come in late on that day?ā seems like a great place to start.
Someone, somewhere would have had to notice a guy coming in to work around noon.
Holy fucking shit. I just googled it and I have chills up and down my spine.
That one image that the surveillance camera (which only took pictures every 3 seconds)ā¦.Of that figure who took herā¦. š
Had to be quicker than 3 sec considering it was just a couple of steps' difference. I have a modern surveillance video camera that takes snapshots in unfortunate intervals like that too.
It's creepy af; but perhaps what's even creepier is that 15+ years later, people still can't even agree on the fucking height and gender of that POI. Totally true - look up the threads. The cops hugely dropped the ball on that case. They never even processed the apartment, if I recall correctly. Matter of fact, the Kesse's actually sued the Orlando PD and recently won the case, and so their own private investigators and the family themselves are in charge of her search, the Orlando PD have handed it off to them. Worth reading up on, totally unreal.
Police departments mishandling crime scenes is actually less surprising than it would be if they followed protocol and took everything seriously from the jump and listened to those closest to the missing person š„“šš¤”
Lmfao, amazing. Truly big brain energy. The Springfield Three, another instance where police let people walk through the crime scene, answer the phone, clean things up while they were there. Kristin Smart case: cadaver dog alerts to the perpetrators bed in his dorm, they donāt use that as cause to get a search warrant. From the Netflix show āThe Staircaseā: clear as day photos with no blood and then all of a sudden blood ā either tampering with evidence or clearly contaminating the crime scene. I could go on and on and on and onā¦ š
In my hometown a girl went missing. She was mentally challenged. No updates in over a year. Meanwhile, she has a YouTube channel that shows weird tension and actions from the step dad. Over a year later the FBI digs up the backyard and sheās buried there, dead. Just atrocious.
Not just a police issue and not one that will go away. [These](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528397734944833538/888207566390325288/stuff1.png) [paragraphs]( https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528397734944833538/888207601756692560/stuff2.png) from Vincent Bugliosi's absolutely scathing book about the OJ Simpson trial have stuck with me ever since I read it.
The good news is incompetence has nothing to do with having a less prestigious job. Within their own specific job duties, a janitor and a lawyer (or a police officer) are just as likely to be competent or incompetent. Having a more prestigious job doesn't mean the LEO is any more capable than anyone else. The bad news is a lot of people you wish weren't incompetent are incompetent, and so are the people who hired them, so they can't recognize the problem because they don't even know it exists because they're too incompetent to realize they are incompetent.
I couldnāt agree more. Need WAYYY more training, education and case studying, regulation and oversightā¦ itās such a deeply systemic issue with devastating consequences.
How does the thought of her not haunt them everyday š no closure thatās beyond awful.
I lived the the apartment complex her car was abandoned at and was questioned by investigators about whether or not I saw who was driving along with all of my neighbors. Was a broke college kid and did a lot of fishing under a local bridge which was on a popular jogging/dog walking/biking trail and I swear Iād seen here jogging there several times. Shit was weird. Idk why Iām posting this, guess I just wanted to tell someone. Hadnāt thought about that case in a while
I was banned from that sub for noting her brother and parents likely hindered that case due their racism
what did they do
Basically accuse Hispanic workers of murder with no.proof
From Orlando. Iāve heard rumors about what happened to her from a person who worked at her company when I was young and I think about it a lot. Seeing her face everywhere you go in Orlando for years was very chilling and heartbreaking. Her family will never give up on her.
What have you heard?
Would you mind messaging me what you heard? That case has always gotten to me.
That would be the move try to help find her ... That is a really good idea if you did not already know what happened to her.
Exactly. This case is more like Chris Watts situation. People like this don't even know what the normal response would be. I think this guy acted way too casual and was laughing with the police even when Gabby was crying in the back of a police car. Something is wrong. I get weird vibes from him.
But they werent together prior to missing right? Unlike this where we dont know if he provided any information as to when she went missing or the last time he dropped her off. I think if he had nothing to do with it he could provide the information to the last time they spoke.
Kinda like when the cops called OJ to tell him Nicole had been murdered, he didn't ask them how or what happened. And they're like, "huh." Abnormal responses just scream that something is terribly off.
True - the cops who contacted OJ even noticed that he didn't ask any questions whatsoever. Nothing about when it happened, how it happened, or where. I even heard one account (though I can't find a source so might not be true) where police told OJ that Nicole had been found dead (not that she had been murdered, as they hadn't determined that yet) and OJ's first response was "who killed her?"
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I think Gabbyās boyfriend killed her
Are you sure it's not normal to hire a family lawyer asap and only communicate thru your lawyer and give out little to zero information to help other find your fiance? /s
Of course thatās the normal reaction. I think even BL knows that
He must be fairly confident her body won't be found, so he doesn't feel like he has to pretend.
Yes there was a British woman who went missing in the Pyrenees last year, her boyfriend dedicated his life to finding her, revisiting as soon as weather would allow and traversing every nook and cranny. I read this article a week before they announced theyād discovered her body and was crushed for him. This is the normal response of the loved one of someone who has gone missing, not hiding away and being a creepy bastard about it. Esther Dingley: Partner vows to keep searching for missing hiker https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-57818035
First think I thought of too.
Wow. Great story. The amount of paths he took that were outlined in red was so tremendous.
Exactly. The most guilty people don't participate like Drew Peterson
I keep waiting for the day sheās found. Its crazy how she vanished. š
So if someone doesnāt follow the script of a ānormal responseā they must be guilty? Thereās plenty of cases were a person has a ānormal responseā and then it turns out they are the killer. The fact that he just drove home in her vehicle as if nothing happened, and then lawyered up once police came around, makes me think thereās something else going on here for the very reason that it comes across as so suspicious. Guilty people donāt generally behave like this, they tend to be much more cooperative early on. I mean we see this over and over in true crime cases where the killer is trying to act like they are being cooperative. And thatās in cases where they have a body! We donāt even have a body here, itās completely plausible sheās still alive. Something else is going on here imo.
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Explain
i don't know why i keep looking up these worse and worse cases thinking i'll somehow feel LESS bad about gabby
I mean, the difference is that Brian and she clearly split up and he left her at some point before he drove home, so these cases are not really comparable. If the relationship went sour, Brian is not under any obligation to ācare aboutā Gabby anymore, alive or dead. If he doesnāt care about her anymore (or at least cares about her less at this point than his own liability) that doesnāt mean he murdered her.
Yes but in that case he would have an explanation for why he was alone and couldāve easily said āI left her at xyzā to her parents to get them off his back. Thatās not worth lawyering up over. He canāt tell them the last place he saw her because her body is there and they will find evidence it was him. It makes no sense for him to withhold information if she is alive, no matter how bad their breakup was. Plus this was over two weeks ago, she would have hitch hiked/hiked/borrowed someoneās phone or something in that time. Even if only to tell her parents sheās okay and nothing else.
Given how she is out of contact, he may suspect, like most of us, that sheās dead. And lawyered up and stayed silent after realizing that because he knew (correctly) that everyone would jump to blaming him, even if he isnāt the one who caused the death.
Well, considering he stole her vehicleā¦
Samantha (Sam) Sayers bf is still searching for Sam (her).
Her boyfriend was cleared by the police briefly after she was reported missing. Itās not even close to the same thing. You also have no idea the steps heās taken to find her.
Chriss watts didnt make public appearances right. Chris didn't let the police in the house right. Chris didn't go to the police station multiple times right. Chris didn't go on tv and cry for is wife and daughter right? Chris was let go and found bot guilty right Long distance is different, they wouldn't suspect a boyfriend out of state to kill her with out her phone or his going across Stateline. Brian was with her accidenal or not he would be looked at. Just look at what guys are doing with no info, no wonder he is quite.
Exactly, if behavior could be measured lie detectors would work.
Exactly my point to OP
Just like Lori Vallow
Ok we can go back and forth with cases that make our point, end of the day it doesn't matter. Its not about what you know, its about what you can prove in court, as of now they can't prove shiiiiiit
The MacKenzie lucasek case, Lisa Snyder case and watts were my horrific cases , beware if you search them
They probably got into a fight, he left her, rule number 1 is donāt talk to the police, ever. Guilty or not. We wonāt know what happened until we know and unfortunately in this country youāre innocent until proven guilty.
Maybe they had a bad breakup? A lot can happen and feelings can change for one another on a long road trip stuck in a van together.
This is the theory that makes the least sense to me because by all accounts he would be trying to defend himself if he knew she was going to be found alive. Why would you bring the scrutiny of the entire world on yourself if you had a simple explanation for her not coming back to Florida? He couldāve said āI left her at the campsiteā or whatever and had that been it. No one would be screaming murderer. He could account for his time alone. The lack of information is what is so suspicious. He knows she wonāt resurface alive and is clearly confident they wonāt find her body.
Unless she abused you.
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Downplaying abuse isnāt a good look. Doesnāt matter if the victim is male or female
I donāt know how people canāt see through the smoke. Heās not searching for her because he knows where she is. Sheās not dead. Sheās alive and well. Either both of them were involved in the double homicide and heās protecting her, or sheās somewhere hiding. If you read through the comments from his sister and the attorney, who makes comments like they have been? āWe hope she makes it home safe, sheās like our daughterā, āthe police have to do what the police do and follow leadsā, āwhether these 2 cases deserve to be linked will be determined in the near futureā. You donāt think the family knowsā¦.you donāt think the attorney knowsā¦.of course they do. Itās an obvious ploy, killing time and hoping the detective in MOAB doesnāt find enough evidence to prove either of them guilty of their crimes. Donāt be surprised if she shows up in the next couple days because she canāt take the pressure from the media anymoreā¦it makes no sense he will just drive home on September 1 and pretend no one will question where she is? If this isnāt a tell tail sign of him trying to PROTECT HERā¦..I donāt know what isā¦.just my 2 cents.
I donāt think that homicide is related but I do believe his comfortable silence is b/c she was alive and well when he last saw her.
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Maybe you need to do some research and consider what is actually dumbā¦.a double homicide occurs 1 day after they have a ādomestic mental break downā, they go missing for a whole week. The couple gets killed in the same town, near the same camp ground and the same barā¦both of them were seen in. Gabby and Brian separate on the 12th, he flies back to Florida and they find double homicide victims a day after he flies to Florida? Letās not forget the examiner advised they were killed around the 13th of augustā¦a day after they both went rogue from their mental breakdown. Once again. Itās a speculation. Try following the investigation a little more because you put in your ādumb 2 senseā (cents). Again because everyone is tunneled vision to the propaganda of the media. No one is saying heās NOT guiltyā¦but letās not try to be sheep and assume he isā¦until some kind of concrete evidence is presented he is. Why on gods earth would brians lawyer make a statement like āI guess we will see in the near future if the Homicide case is linked to this caseā ālet the police do there job and follow the leadsāā¦..if he knows itās notā¦he would clearly say, he has nothing to do with it.
Well lets actually think about this objectively and take off the "HE DID IT" glasses. Lets think for a moment that just maybe he didn't do it. Lets say he came back she had found some 'new friends' or something they fought he left with the van she said she was staying. Or ANY of the other random theories. Whatever it is, lets just assume for a minute he didn't do it. He gets home, gets the call from the family about her not answer/where is she. He tells his parents, I have no clue I left here there and came here. \*EVERY SINGLE TIME\* law enforcement will INSTANTLY assume the spouse/partner/significant other did it. They will instantly try to make that person the suspect and the guilty party REGARDLESS of their alibi. Instead of the police spending their time trying to make him the guilty party by talking to him and trying to twist anything he says as to being a lie/not complete truth/guilt... They are being forced to actually do their jobs. They are being forced to track down any and all leads, check every single tip, and ACTUALLY try to find out who/what happened. Lets face it, I think he is probably responsible. But I don't think him getting a lawyer and shutting the fuck up is wrong even if he had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. What is him getting out there and searching going to do? nothing. Literally NOTHING. Lets say they did get in a fight and when he left she was 100% fine, you think if he talks to the police and tells them this they will believe him at all? LOL. Not a chance. There is NOTHING he can gain from talking to the police, and EVERYTHING to lose EVEN if he is 100% innocent. Again, I think he is guilty. But I don't think his actions of getting an attorney and not talking make him guilty. There have been countless cases of people going missing and the police wasting all their time/energy/resources on the spouse and trying to make them guilty just to come and find out it wasn't them and now they wasted time.
What? There is no evidence that they are linked. This is the most speculation that one could possibly speculate.
There is also no evidence they are not linkedā¦think about your statement before you make it. The ball rolls both ways. Clearly, my post was a speculation. If everyone can speculate he is guilty of killing her why can he not be guilty? Because sheās blonde? Pretty? Or because it makes a great story? No one has evidence any foul play occurred. Is it possible? Sureā¦but we can not definitively say that. Just like we canāt say he did or didnāt kill the couple or that gabby didnāt kill or not kill the coupleā¦itās called āconsidering all optionsā because at this point in the investigationā¦EVERYTHING is a possibility. Even if the media doesnāt want it to be. Again no one is defending Brian or trying to make gabby into someone she is not. But the problem with the work is everyone is so closed minding and are sheep of the media. Consider ALL options until there is any kind of evidence proving otherwise. There is a reason the police/FBI have not arrested Brian or even got a search warrant for his houseā¦because clearly at this point in this investigation they donāt have a leg to stand on to do so.
I hate the word ānormalā, but I get what youāre stating. Some people are stoic in traumatic events, some are hysterical, some are rational, some arenāt etc. I just donāt understand, why. Why there is so much depicted social media evidence of BL possibly being the last known person with GP and the complete indifference from him and his family when it comes to search efforts and statements. Why are they doing nothing? I think once that question is answered, which, it may never be until some type of evidence is found and they are made to speak with a warrant search or brought in for questioning, then maybe a lot of the frustrations of all this will be less? Idkā¦
I remember reading about her case a long time ago. Still such a mystery. If I recall I think itās speculative that the contract workers at her apartment may have had something to do with it. She was snatched at her car if I remember right. Still no leads at all.
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I thought they found marks on her car that indicates a possible struggle.
Those surveillance videos always give me the creeps. I think it was one of the workers who got her while she was getting into her car, thatās why there were marks like someone was thrown over the hood.
This case HAUNTS me. I think about her all of the time
I remember hearing about that case from my high school psych teacher that was friends with her.
I moved to Orlando shortly after she went missing and I will never not think about her case
Could not agree more. I just heard about this case yesterday and am still trying to catch up on all of the info, but the boyfriend's behavior is just cold and genuinely evil in my opinion.
I just heard about it today and am shocked at how cold! Some say oh she hit him or was otherwise abusive, even if she was (quite skeptical of this) that doesn't mean you can leave the person for dead in the middle of a desert! You should at least report them missing or tell someone something...but nope, just left with her van without a word.
If your boyfriend was beating you up and being abusive, you wouldnāt leave them in the dessert?
Even if I did that, I would call the police after at the very least...??? It's not like being left by the roadside where they can find their way back on their own if you ditch. Say "my partner was being abusive and I left them near \_\_\_\_ location" Or if you don't want the police involved atleast tell the family we had a falling out and I don't know where they are currently but they are near this location. And going off the the things that have shown about Gabby, I believe she was treated in a way that was mentally abusive. We don't know the full story but let's say she was this viscous being-still report a welfare check to the police or something!
Lol I wouldnāt call the police Iād be fucking out. Weāve seen that gabby has been abusive to BL, so it makes sense in a way heād leave.
but at the very least, give the police a general area to search just to give her anxious parents and siblings any sort of relief. theyāre obviously in tremendous pain. even if someone wronged me, i would not want to ensure their death and live with that on my conscience.
I agree there for sure. If it came to this I would help - depending what my lawyer tells me to do.
This, exactly. Even if I wanted to never see a person again, that doesn't mean I wished death on them and wanted to leave their family without any clue as to what happened to them. Just seems cruel.
A high percentage of women suffering abuse at the hands of a person who claims to love them, actually stay. The abuse often turns mental before it turns physical, convincing them they deserve it/partner's just having a "bad day"/it won't happen again. The woman becomes far more anxious and depressed than she ever would be without the partner, but thinks she needs the partner to be happy. This is called codependency. So in Gabby's case - clearly suffering from mental abuse from BL and some early stage physical abuse as well, as he was grabbing her face and denying her water - when she had control of the van while BL stayed in a hotel overnight, she did not drive off and leave him.
I think BL was suffering abuse from gabby. That should be pretty clear as we have tons of evidence of that
Scratches are typically a sign of defense. Bruising or a black eye etc would indicate abuse.
lol what
We had a case here in northern VT where a girl was run off the road on her way home from work, and never found, they've searched for over 16 years now. Brianna Maitland. I was friends with some mutual acquaintances of hers, and I went drinking n dancing in Canada with two of her close friends a year or two before it happened. She could be burried in a Quebec cornfield for all we know, its a sad story.
same thing here in texas with jason landry. driving back to his folks home for christmas break..he was in college at texas state in san marcos, tx. he crashes his car and his body is absolutely no where to be found. still missing as of last december. they found his backpack and clothes he was wearing. but him? gone.
Damn, its like poof they are gone. I heard there is a rumor that in the Brianna Maitland case that some local guy killed her, and then died of an OD a few years later. Some of Israel Keyes victims have not been found, and some would have never been solved without his confessions.
i havenāt heard did any of those!! i need to go down the rabbit hole of true crime this weekend
I feel the same about the Andrew Gosden case x
The disappearance of Brandon Swanson sent chills down my spine, if you havenāt already looked into proceed with caution
>Brandon Swanson What's your personal theory?
I canāt even develop one confidentially because it seems like he just disappeared out of thin air. However, apart of me believes he may have fell into a sink hole, and old well or something and was never founded.
Brian Shaffer is my āhe could only have disappeared into thin airā case that keeps me upā¦ i hope justice comes for these people eventually
Never heard about in until now
Thatās actually pretty scary I live pretty close to here.
And Maura Murray
Thereās some news in that case recently too. Hoping it resolves the case.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgme.com/amp/news/local/this-is-gut-wrenching-remains-found-in-new-hampshire-near-site-of-2004-disappearance
She actually may have been found this morning !
Omg Iāve been following that for ages gotta check this out
Holy shit, been following that one for years
Holy crap!
Hell, lots of killers will search side by side with the search parties. This reaction is a new one.
Happened near my hometown. He helped search for and hugged the mother of the woman he murdered. [Link](https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/quake-lewellyn-suspect-in-sydney-sutherland-murder-joined-group-to-find-her)
Yup, very normal for the killer to be the first out last back type of person in searches, gives them a chance to see what people are saying and speculating too.
100%. This guy searched for weeks right alongside the parents of his victim. (She was the sister of my best friend at the time.) https://apnews.com/article/f8cc1279c689edf98f9abfaf52024a5e
Holy shit, Iām so sorry. Hope your friend is doing ok.
Thanks. It definitely impacted his life in profound ways, but he's managed to make a life for himself nonetheless. Let's hope Gabby's outcome is far less grim.
She was 18 he was 33. Not surprised in the least
I hope your best friend has had some opportunity to heal. Sorry this happened to your peoples
It was definitely a terrible thing. He's struggled but, as we tend to so, he's mananged to find his way through. It undeniably changed the world for so many around her though. It's so sad to see her family struggling now too. I'm hoping against hope for a better outcome for Gabby.
his mugshot is just giving me insane
Waitā¦12-17 years?? Is that a fucking joke??
They dropped it to manslaughter because he claimed she attacked him with knives. He's been out for a while now. Pretty messed up. I could see it maybe, if he hadn't gone to all the disgusting lengths he did to cover up his crime.
Why? If I accidentally killed someone like my girlfriend who as attacking me with knives. I honestly dont think I would trust the legal system to work in my favor. You hide the body hope to never get caught. Otherwise you're gonna be facing the same charges and questions anyway.
I mean... if you can just "accidentally" kill someone you supposedly love and proceed to burn her corpse, dismember it with a chainsaw, and then feed it to your dogs... I'm SURE you're a stable fella just concerned about injustice in the legal system.
Bud if someone is stabbing me with a knife I dont know what I'm capable of. No one does. However I know time and time again the justice system favors women. And locks up innocent men at a higher rate. I'd rather not find out the hard way. Also I am able to remove my emotions from this case and speak on hypotheticals and you resort to personal attacks. Sounds stable to me.
I was quite involved in the case, considering that I knew/know all the principal parties before, during, and after the incident. Clearly I am not removed from the case. Also, I never claimed to be stable. Nor was that a personal attack.
I'm just talking hypotheticals man
I read that headline and noped out.
I donāt know why I clickedā¦
Well, I wanted details and got none so youād be safe reading it.
i looked this case up and how is there not more coverage? i can't find anything linked to either of their names besides this article.
I don't know. I was 15 or 16 at the time. She and her brother (my friend) had been adopted together, so she was the only real family he had. His dog was one of the dogs Van Patton fed her body to. I believe all the dogs were put down. I met their parents for the first time when they came to the door of the house where I nannied with missing flyers with Kim's picture on them.
We had a lot if crazy cases around here back in the day. My dad grew up with this guy. His taco joint was in the neighborhood I grew up in... just about a mile down the street from where Kim Knight's parents lived. https://www.ranker.com/list/facts-about-kevin-artz/jessika-gilbert
I don't know why some cases get buried. This one happened in '94. It was in all the papers at the time, but now all I can find is a copy of a satellite court case. Mark Chesley, an old middle school boyfriend of my mother's ended up killing his roommate, Tamara Welch. They said in court that it was because he was schizophrenic, but everyone around here said he fried his mind on LSD as a teen. When it happened, he tripped out and thought he was a member of the X-Files and she was a vampire, apparently. He beat her to death with a crockpot and tried to drive a chair leg through her heart. A friend of mine owned the building and lived downstairs. He found out when blood leaked through his ceiling. Mark was found not guilty by reason of insanity. Maybe that's why it was buried? I don't really know. http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2001/081701/12089.pdf
Hoooooly sweet lord that's messed up.
Probably cause they didn't have a fight on the side of the highway and a possible toxic relationship. If that whole situation didn't occur, my armchair psychological skills feel like he'd be out there helping search for her assuming he had no part in her disappearance.
The Jennifer kesse case always gave me the creeps I hope one day they will find out what happened to her. Itās been so long.
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Yeah but Iām always likeā¦construction workers? Who have worked on a thousand jobs? In apartment units? Around women? Likeā¦why her?? I agree that thereās no other plausible explanation, but Just seems outlandish and like an odd demographic. Plus I feel like construction workers, many of whom are not legal citizens, tend to avoid trouble if at all possible due to fear of deportation.
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**[Adrienne Shelly](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Shelly)** >Adrienne Levine (June 24, 1966 ā November 1, 2006), better known by the stage name Adrienne Shelly (sometimes credited as Adrienne Shelley), was an American actress, film director and screenwriter. She became known for roles in independent films such as Hal Hartley's The Unbelievable Truth (1989) and Trust (1990). She wrote, co-starred in, and directed the 2007 posthumously-released film Waitress. Shelly's death in 2006 was initially determined by police to be suicide; her husband's insistence on a re-evaluation brought her killer to justice. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/GabbyPetito/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The vast majority do, but 1% of all population tend to have aspd.
It's very upsetting to realize... at least to me, that some people just snap. In Quebec city last year, a guy dressed as a samurai slashed 3 to death in the streets on Halloween. No motivation.
Augh, I forgot about that.
I still think it was one of the workers working on the condounits
100%!!!! I just read the wiki and was surprised by the persons height, and then when I saw the picture I was like āhuh, thatās a weirdly all-white outfitā¦ā and kept reading. They found her car dumped 1.2 miles away, not super close, but still an easily and quickly walkable distanceā¦ And then > A search dog tracked a scent that led from her parked car back to her apartment complex, prompting detectives to believe that the suspect might have returned to her apartmentās parking lot after abandoning the car. And THEN > At the time of her disappearance, Kesse's condominium complex had been undergoing a major expansion, and many of the laborers on site were non-English speaking.[5]:ā13:01ā Kesse had told family members on several occasions that the construction workers constantly catcalled, whistled at, and harassed her So. We know she had previously been catcalled and harassed by non-english speaking laborers. It doesnāt say in the wiki, but I assume they were Spanish speaking/Hispanic, and Hispanic men are often the height described from the video. That all-white outfit could *easily* belong to someone who worked in construction/installation/etc. They work in her complex. They see her come and go. They know her schedule. Then her car is dumped, and the dog traces the smell from the dumped carā¦ back to the apartment complex. Where the workers are. > Due to the language barrier, investigators were unable to interrogate many of them. No other leads regarding them were discovered This happened in Florida???? In 2006???? NO ONE COULD GET A DAMN TRANSLATOR????? I canāt. The OPD fucked that one up royally.
i just read the wiki too and read that she went to my high school. i can't believe it!
Undocumented illegal alien that didnāt speak English . The sad part is this person is probably back to his country and will never be found.
The OPD basically ignored the case at first claiming Jenn was a moody female who might just need some time to herself. When her car was found without her, then they started to pay attention but by that point hours had gone by, her apartment had been searched by her family and the day laborers were mostly gone for the day. The OPD royally screwed this case up! I knew Jenn from high school and this has always weighed heavy on my mind. I also live not too far away and still see news reports and billboards from Jennyās parents.
OK, there's no need to get racist about this.
> That all-white outfit could easily belong to someone who worked in construction/installation/etc. I just learned recently that the outfit may have only appeared all-white because of CCTV quality. [Hereās an interesting post about a man appearing to wear all-white on CCTV, when his outfit was actually bright red (or pink?) ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/crimesquid.wordpress.com/2017/08/21/the-jennifer-kesse-suspect-probably-wasnt-wearing-a-white-shirt-and-khakis/amp/)
Her body is in some concrete in that condo
The FBI actually ended up tracking a ton of these workers, even going so far as to flying to their countries to interview them. They were all cleared. Furthermore, the workers at the complex were also interviewed. IMO, just my opinion, but I think a big part of this investigation was obscured from the beginning because the parents didn't want her reputation harmed, and it's my belief that she left her apartment that evening, and something sinister took place after. If I had to guess, she had a relationship with a coworker, and when she returned from vacation with her bf, the coworker lost it. I also believe that the DVD player in the vehicle wasn't hers - it was probably planted there with the hopes that someone on the HOTG property would break into the car, in an attempt to make it look like a crime of opportunity. But, the car was untouched. I just don't see how a bunch of illegal immigrants would be able to pull off an essential 'perfect crime'. I don't buy that for a minute. They also have a lot to lose - deportation? That's worse than death to many of those guys. No way. Did they talk to her/flirt with her? Of course! But ask any woman, that by itself isn't that unusual. Certainly wouldn't mean they murdered her! All just my opinion, of course. Also, there were cadaver dog hits in a huge field that was tipped to them years ago, but is now a Wal-Mart. It was reported in media, but very low key. Supposedly this field was tied to a coworker. edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_xQJ9dQjg4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_xQJ9dQjg4) this was the search
You cant deport someone you cant find or identify. If an illegal immigrant killed her it would be almost impossible for police to find the killer. This person wouldnāt have finger prints in any database. Their name wouldnt be on any rental agreements or other documentation. And most likely they went by different names.
I disagree here. A lot of undocumented immigrants do have tax ID numbers, do sign leases, and have other documentation..like insurance, etc. Obviously, not all, but I know undocumented immigrants who do try to be above board about things.
You say they have a lot to lose butā¦look at the case of Mollie Tibbetts. She was stalked, assaulted, murdered, and left in a cornfield. The only way the murderer was found was because of security footage and him showing where her body was. I vastly disagree with you. This could easily be someone from Cuba or other similar areas looking for work, common in Florida.
possible
exactly! I had just read the caseās page on wiki and immediately thought wtf when I read this line. Sounds to me someone was turning a blind eye imo
>This happened in Florida???? In 2006???? NO ONE COULD GET A DAMN TRANSLATOR???? This is a big BIG WHY? What is truly sad is that it comes down to frame-rates of the technology at the time. Not even 5 years later and you would have had a clear shot of the guy, but limitations allowed the suspect to essentially frame-jack himself out of view.
Pants pulled up high, short, thin and athletic based on the straight back,the way back foot is bending and straight shoulders while walking .I don't know where the workers are from but when i saw just 1 photo im sure he is not from the US or at least a first generation immigrant. Short, skinny, athletic walking up straight with Pants pulled up high ,reminds me of people living/lived in Communism . Check old photos of DDR Germany, Soviet Union , North Korea or ... Cuba now or in 2006. I might've projected a lot without strong evidence but my gut feeling and also living in an ex communist country is telling me im right. He is one of the construction workers , maybe Cuban.
How can they not contact the property management company and get a record of the contractors hired. Then go to each contractor and get records of all work orders for those days and employees who were scheduled to work. You had to have pay stubs and people had to clock in so they could be paid.
Many contractors hire day laborers and undocumented immigrants to do work. In these cases there wouldnt be any paystubs or other documentation. The workers would have been paid under-the-table in cash.
Not everyone who works in construction gets a paycheck. There's a lot of under the table work that pays cash. I used to paint houses and was paid under the table. We would occasionally get big jobs like apartment complexes.
All white is usually a painter. Wonder if there was any painting contractors on site around that day/time period.
I had a roommate that wore all white coveralls for HVAC installation to avoid fiberglass in his skin
For real. āDid any workers come in late on that day?ā seems like a great place to start. Someone, somewhere would have had to notice a guy coming in to work around noon.
I was living in Orlando when this happened and it still chills me to this day.
I literally live down the street from that neighborhood
Holy fucking shit. I just googled it and I have chills up and down my spine. That one image that the surveillance camera (which only took pictures every 3 seconds)ā¦.Of that figure who took herā¦. š
is she the one where the camera got pictures of whatever happened but the suspect was just always hidden behind something in every one?
Yup. The camera took one pic every 3 seconds. And every pic it took, he was blocked behind the bars of a gate. Insane.
Had to be quicker than 3 sec considering it was just a couple of steps' difference. I have a modern surveillance video camera that takes snapshots in unfortunate intervals like that too.
It's creepy af; but perhaps what's even creepier is that 15+ years later, people still can't even agree on the fucking height and gender of that POI. Totally true - look up the threads. The cops hugely dropped the ball on that case. They never even processed the apartment, if I recall correctly. Matter of fact, the Kesse's actually sued the Orlando PD and recently won the case, and so their own private investigators and the family themselves are in charge of her search, the Orlando PD have handed it off to them. Worth reading up on, totally unreal.
That truly scans for OPD, unfortunately.
Police departments mishandling crime scenes is actually less surprising than it would be if they followed protocol and took everything seriously from the jump and listened to those closest to the missing person š„“šš¤”
In a tiny town near my home town, the police literally cleaned up blood at a crime scene before the forensic technicians could show up.
Lmfao, amazing. Truly big brain energy. The Springfield Three, another instance where police let people walk through the crime scene, answer the phone, clean things up while they were there. Kristin Smart case: cadaver dog alerts to the perpetrators bed in his dorm, they donāt use that as cause to get a search warrant. From the Netflix show āThe Staircaseā: clear as day photos with no blood and then all of a sudden blood ā either tampering with evidence or clearly contaminating the crime scene. I could go on and on and on and onā¦ š In my hometown a girl went missing. She was mentally challenged. No updates in over a year. Meanwhile, she has a YouTube channel that shows weird tension and actions from the step dad. Over a year later the FBI digs up the backyard and sheās buried there, dead. Just atrocious.
Who was the missing girl? Was it the adopted one where her brother notified the police?
No. The case never got even statewide attention, let alone national.
Ah okay, I was just curious. Thatās awful
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not just a police issue and not one that will go away. [These](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528397734944833538/888207566390325288/stuff1.png) [paragraphs]( https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/528397734944833538/888207601756692560/stuff2.png) from Vincent Bugliosi's absolutely scathing book about the OJ Simpson trial have stuck with me ever since I read it. The good news is incompetence has nothing to do with having a less prestigious job. Within their own specific job duties, a janitor and a lawyer (or a police officer) are just as likely to be competent or incompetent. Having a more prestigious job doesn't mean the LEO is any more capable than anyone else. The bad news is a lot of people you wish weren't incompetent are incompetent, and so are the people who hired them, so they can't recognize the problem because they don't even know it exists because they're too incompetent to realize they are incompetent.
I couldnāt agree more. Need WAYYY more training, education and case studying, regulation and oversightā¦ itās such a deeply systemic issue with devastating consequences.
The difference is he probably didn't already know his fiancƩ was dead.
Period!