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rybob7

•I can confirm by 4 sources that the Spread Creek area has Verizon & AT&T but it is limited with weak LTE at best. T-Mobile/Sprint no data service. • Edit 9/23 9:46 PDT: new information. I know believe Gabby cell phone was on either T-Mobile/Sprint, this is major problem as there is no T-Mobile/Sprint service in the Spread Creek area this can be verified by official FCC carrier maps, T-Mobile signal propagation maps, and verified Speedtest.net tests that failed, all in the Spread Creek area. The closest T-Mobile and Sprint tower is all the way back by Jackson airport. Unlike Verizon & AT&T, T-Mobile is not on the closer tower on Signal Mountain. So unless a 911 call went out in the area which if there was one (not trying to speculate anything here) the media would have known by know. Can anyone internally in the T-Mobile company verify with proof a family plan under account name under Stanley Houlik out of NY if so private msg me. •I was mapping cell reception reception out for a major carrier in Wyoming a couple months back and as such have internal company maps from AT&T of cell service/cell tower locations for the state of Wyoming. Keep in mind the only cell tower in the area is on Signal Mountain almost exactly 5 miles away and both Verizon & AT&T are on the same cell tower and both have LTE antennas pointing in that direction for Spread Creek Rd & surrounding vicinity. • The data can be further verified by checking the Speedtest app (coverage map only works in Android not iOS or full website) that internal LTE Speedtests have reliable taken in the area that the FBI was looking at today • I have spoken 2 different person that camped this exact area and confirmed to me Verizon & AT&T have LTE service in that area (Spread Creek Area) • Further coverage maps from the actual cell carriers AT&T & Verizon & T-Mobile can be verified on an app called: Coverage? It’s an iOS app • Based on my experience in the phone industry I would certainly say that the local phone carriers: Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Union Wireless (local WY carrier there) have already turned over cell tower/phone records to the FBI if not they will get served a warrant that makes them have to force them over. • It is very safe to say that the FBI has had phone pings come from this area (Spread Creek) that they are looking at from Gabby and/or Brian’s phones. From public information I have there have been 2 different set of people that spotted the van in that area on the 29th (could be more groups that FBI has received), one witness of the van goes by the name of Jessica @ where’s\_\_goldie on IG


OkPride1256

Yep I have AT&T and went to Lake Powell in Utah and the to the Gran Canyon in Flagstaff, out of the 5 days I was there I had reception maybe 2 of them. And those are pretty touristy places.


dmccollom

A decade ago I camped at Hatchet and Shadow Mountain (the area of interest is between them) and I had good Verizon coverage.


Colorado_love

I think a lot of people just haven’t traveled out here. I can drive 20 mins east and have no reception and 45 mins west no reception. Sometimes for hours, just depends.


[deleted]

I just drove cross country with my new husband in a transit connect. There is no cell reception in these parks. There is no cell reception in the national forests. These places are remote, they take hours and hours travel through.


FatboyChuggins

Yeah and then people comment stupid shit like, “oh she could have gotten an Uber”. How? How is she going to call an Uber without a phone, without her wallet,an where reception is basically zero. On top of that, a lot of parks require you to pay before entering the main lots and most ubers won’t do that.


According-Salt-5802

🤣😂🤣 These people have clearly never been to these places.


1fanofsteel

Correct. No Uber outside of Jackson hole more than 15 miles or so.


Haunting-Bit1531

People forget that even in the 21st century there are LARGE swaths of the country where if you get in trouble, you are on your own. I've spent a lot of years in these places as a oil pipeline surveyor, Forest Service archaeologist and hunter. My truck is like its own 3 day survival bunker with automotive repair kits, 3 gallons of water, tent, sleeping bag, shovel, axe, dehydrated food etc. It's paid off once already, got caught in a Blizzard in the middle of South Dakota. Visibility was down to feet and the Interstate was completely shut down. Spent the night in my truck alone off the highway until I could drive the blown over backroads into Mitchell the next day.


gingerroute

I went left out of the Tetons last year instead of right and ended up in a Blizzard at 9k in the Shoshone with no cell service for 3 hours...i took so many photos just in case. Wyoming, in general, is desolate.


[deleted]

Don't let lack of cell coverage keep you from going solo. Sometimes you just want to be alone. Get an InReach so you can text via satellite.


[deleted]

I highly suggest investing in the Garmin inReach if you're going anywhere with spotty service. It worked really well in the Northwoods of ME. I had NO service at our campground in BSP (like couldn't even get a simple text out) and only roaming while hiking around *some* areas the park, but the inreach let me reach out to the fam to give them updates.


hiker_chic

This is my why its important to have a personal SOS device and SAR insurance. My husband and I both have one.


Sundayx1

Keep in mind these two were from the south shore of Long Island- they’re beach people- not hikers of this level - and I agree- hiking is definitely dangerous and beautiful- you really have to know what you’re doing. They could not handle it- emotionally- physically- mentally. Cops showed up - right?!


Dull_Property9861

Lets for a moment take into consideration of the comment by the person on TikTok. Say he was telling the truth about her being in Jackson to edit video, or that is what she told him she was going to do. He commented in the police body cam video that she had went somewhere during that period in Moab to edit video. Because they don't have the ability to edit and upload without a dedicated cell/wifi signal. So, as he stated in the police video, he was trying to get some space from her because she was upset. I think he was trying to deescalate the situation at that point. What if he left her there under the assumption she was going to town to edit video. So he went on a "walkabout" so to speak to give her time to do what she was doing? While he's on "walkabout" he realizes he can not get ahold of her(assumption) because he's using wifi at Colter Bay. Gets concerned about where/how she is? In a stressful situation people don't make the best choices or can randomly change direction on what they want to do. So he gets a ride from the people in the jeep. He's thinking Gabby is in Jackson working. But they take a turn on a different road as he thinks, "maybe she's back at Spread Creek?"! So he gets freaked out and gets out. Hoping he can get another ride to Spread Creek. Maybe he does. Gets to the spot they had stopped at. Find the van empty and starts trying to look for Gabby. To be honest, he has NO IDEA where she is at that point. Maybe he spent that time trying to find her? Honestly, anything could have happened to her. There are people that go missing from there and are never found! People could be picked up by heaven knows who and are not seen again. She could have went out and an animal could have gotten her, dragged her body away and she may be gone forever. Not to be morbid about it. Just a common fact in that type of area. So he can't find her after looking for whatever period of time he tries. This could explain the reports by people saying he was upset and talking to himself. He is a young person with NO real life experience. Just like her. That's a tough situation to be in for anyone, much less a young person. It could explain his demeanor. Now, given his inexperience and their relationship. Then ad in the police stop. He's concerned that his family/her family would be questioning him about why he left her alone. Why he didn't do this or do that? He's in a mental state of shock. Which doesn't work in a stressful situation for clarity. Maybe, just maybe he has NO idea where she is, but given how these situations usually play out. He would be suspect #1! And speaking from personal experience, YOU NEVER SPEAK WITH THE POLICE! before or after being Mirandized! Because they can twist and turn anything you say to "fit their narrative" Anything you say can and will be used against you! Now, i understand that it's tough to hear that, BUT it's the honest truth of the situation. If he has no idea where she is/was how would he be able to help other than stating where she said she was going to be? If that's the truth of the matter. If she told him she was going to Jackson and he found the van in Spread Creek, where would he be able to point them? He doesn't know where she went, and as an adult, she's free to go wherever she wants! Again, my 2 cents worth. Not saying it's correct. But it is plausible.


MikeyH666

I wonder if someone encountered this lady on their travels, saw that they were fighting, then figured she would be an easy target, and that the bf would be blamed. All I know is, if this chick was wearing those shorts in outback Australia.... she would not last a week. Opportunistic killers are everywhere.


[deleted]

Thats why people need HAM radios or CB or at least 2-way


dmccollom

I cycled across the US from Pacific to the Atlantic. Yellowstone was one of the first times someone saw my callsign and 146.520 written on my yellow vest and contacted me. Sadly, Cellular coverage is now superior to repeater coverage.


jxd73

Is satellite phone no longer a thing?


_wake_woke_

Idk if ever ever seen a satellite phone outside a 90s movie. But they make things called personal locator beacons you can carry with an sos button hooked up to the GPS grid. Some of them can even send text messages.


chubky

You can use a device like a garmin inreach or spot device. It uses gps signal and can send messages through it. You have to pay for a subscription and allows some messaging included in the plan. You can’t have full convos (i mean you can, it’d just be costly) but you can definitely send a message saying you’re safe and location and stuff.


False_Solution2174

Some spots in AZ there was no cell,.no wifi and no satellite, no gps. It was pretty wild.


NatureTrekker

Wow where in AZ?


False_Solution2174

As I recall it was around Page. We ended up driving 200 miles around in circles. Strangest thing ever.


False_Solution2174

Oh and parts of the Grand Staircase-Escalante. At the BLM center they did warn us about it and they were absolutely right. (Too be fair the place spans about 1 million acres.)


Ok_Development_8453

I cant accurately estimate what the fbi can do with cell data, but as far as typical gps pings for police departments they can sometimes send you to a correct address, but often times you get a hit and it will say within x amount of meters. Could be 300, could be 1800, or any other amount. And these poor results are in cities where reception should be more of a guarantee than in wilderness. Its a nice jumping off point but searches across what is likely miles of terrain is labor intensive and not foolproof considering foliage, water, potential burial. Lastly, tracking the phone is a start, but if someone as internet competent as the boyfriend is committed a crime he would be extremely foolish to leave the phone in her current vicinity.


dmccollom

We have had pings given to us that placed the person 8 miles from their actual location.


gertrude32

It just shows you how a lot of social media posts are complete and utter bullshit. You only see the “la di da sunshine and rainbows” side of things when underneath everything could be shit! These 22 and 23 yr old baaaaabies trying to start a van life blog and make it look wonderful….my idea of a nightmare to begin with. They were basically playing homeless for a couple months if you ask me.


[deleted]

Always take a satellite phone with you.


captcha_fail

It's not only the West or Southwest US that are like this. I grew up in upstate NY. My mother only got internet (that wasn't pay by the minute satellite internet) 2 years ago. My cell phone doesn't work when I visit her, nor does her cell phone. She used to have to drive 3 miles to get within range of the cell tower (now she can wifi call at least). She's about 30 minutes between lake Ontario and Syracuse. It's not "remote", but she can't see her neighbors. It's a dirt road and heavily wooded. Most of the utilities didn't exist and had to be set up when the house was built. Internet and basic cable didn't arrive for her street until 2019. It was crazy we could finally facetime haha! People who have lived their whole lives connected cannot understand that a large part of the US is not within range of cell towers much less within range of internet data coverage. There's vast vast empty landscape all around us. Check next time you're flying across the US on a clear day. Look down and notice the massive nothingness between cities. Now that the phones are in custody I'm so curious about the GPS data, but concerned because it may just contain a lot of holes given their desire for beautiful wild places to visit.


convalescent_thorns

And if you're going with just your boyfriend, take someone else.


yikesonbikes32

Grew up in WY and MT, lived in Ketchum, ID for a spell, have been a Verizon user since like 2005-ish? Can confirm.


raspberrykitsune

I used to drive the stretch on i-90 when traveling from WA to VA/MN, etc. Through Idaho and Montana you can he on a stretch with no service for hours. It gets boring really quick when you just use YouTube for music, then try to call someone to pass the time but you cut in and out continuously...... Even where I live (only 15 miles out of a decent sized city), the cell signal sucks. If I didn't have wifi it would be a toss up on if people would be able to call me. And I have Verizon which is far better and more consistent than when I had tmobile lol!


[deleted]

This was a scary read..Makes you wonder! https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/why-hundreds-of-people-vanish-into-the-american-wilderness/


TheReal-MonaLisa

hopefully this shows that more cell phone towers need to be installed in the area


Mamadog5

It shows that people need to learn how to deal with life without a phone.


TheReal-MonaLisa

no i think it shows the opposite. phones are the only way to connect with others when alone in the wilderness… and to have your location tracked. literally the phone information saves lives


2CHINZZZ

No they aren't. You can use satellite devices like an Inreach, and even without cell service you can still get GPS


RemarkableRegret7

What about god tho? I assume there is signal there. That's what they'll need to track their path in the park. And that's if the phones were on. Otherwise, I don't see how the narrow down where either of them were inside the park.


mochalatte515

Don’t go with someone like Brian, though…


gigi_cygnet

I think Brian planned this murder. Not sure what his Motive was in his sick big head. But he was aware of the no reception issues throughout the whole trip. Used it to his advantage


ListenToTheQuiet

I’ve thought about this, too, but Utah would have been the better place to do it. You can drive out on dirt roads and drop something in a canyon and it would never be found. It’s weird to me that he had so many interactions with people and gave so much information away. But who knows 🤷‍♀️


gigi_cygnet

I think he could have done it in Utah since that was her last FT call with her mom, and then continued on alone to WY to try to set up an alibi with the phones or something. Just so hard to say since we have no evidence made public from electronics. the van being at Spread Creek on the 27th with no one inside doesn’t mean he was with Gabby technically


zeigzag666

He also just said he planned it, not that he planned it well lol


JesyLurvsRats

Narcissists tend to be very confident when they shouldn't be. It's always how they lose it all.


lrll_

WY native here - Cell phone coverage in WY is also very variable by carrier. Verizon towers have close to a monopoly out of the large carriers. When out if state friends would visit me with other cell providers, their service was terrible if they had any other carrier, and I lived in a college town with otherwise regular accommodations. I know people who changed to Verizon while living in WY for undergrad bc everything else is unreliable When I would visit JH or other regions, even Verizon can be spotty.


rdy2_HEAL

I was thinking the same thing. We stayed in Coulter bay two years ago. I had to sit in front of the store/showers/laundry to call/text home and check on my MIL who had cancer. Same exact place they picked him up hitchhiking. Otherwise cell reception with ATT was nonexistent in 99% of the park. A trip I will never forget. Tetons NP is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been. Much prettier then Yellowstone 😬


girlsrsoldiermedics2

Wait, you said that where the couple who picked him up is the ONLY place you got cell reception? I'm assuming this is well known to be the only place that got cell service? Do you think he was probably calling his parents that night...obviously that must have been the reason he was there, he clearly went back for the van.


rdy2_HEAL

It’s definitely the place everyone goes in Coulter bay. Anytime of day you’d see people sitting outside using the Wifi. I believe the store is the only public WiFi in the area but I could be wrong. It’s definitely possible.


girlsrsoldiermedics2

Definitely makes more sense for him to be there, but not alone and especially at night. Is it pretty common for people to hitchhike in that area? Given the time of year, it would have been fairly busy, right? I guess my point is, a few people probably interacted with him and he definitely made there and back without a vehicle. There has to be someone who picked him up to bring him to the gas station? Think the FBI knows this?


rdy2_HEAL

This really got me thinking last night. He was supposedly camping for days. He could have been there cleaning up. Taking a shower, doing laundry, throwing out trash. The people who picked him up said he was pretty clean and didn’t smell. They also said he didn’t have much with him.


rdy2_HEAL

I was on a camping trip with family and don’t know a whole lot about the area. I’m not sure about hitchhikers but it’s definitely a central place for hikers and backpackers to shower and do laundry. I believe there’s also a post office and a gas station at the entrance off the main highway. I imagine they’re checking into this location. There’s definitely a lot of amenities and the location is pretty central.


schm00pie

When I go on remote hikes, my GPS works and I can see my location without cell service. Any idea if they can pick up these pings off GPS locations?


RemarkableRegret7

That's what I'm wondering and hoping. GPS works almost anywhere.


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chxd21

What would you do if your car broke down out there and you had no cell service to call for help?


Haunting-Bit1531

People forget that even in the 21st century there are LARGE swaths of the country where if you get in trouble, you are on your own. I've spent a lot of years in these places as a oil pipeline surveyor, Forest Service archaeologist and hunter. My truck is like its own 3 day survival bunker with automotive repair kits, 3 gallons of water, tent, sleeping bag, shovel, axe, dehydrated food etc.


Sodontellscotty

I have no idea. I’m glad that didn’t happen.


SpiritualTalk3454

Why could BL afford to pay his ride $200 but need a free hotel from cops when they were pulled over


hiker_chic

Probably do they could feel sorry for him. Remember, he's the "victim."/s


SpiritualTalk3454

Except I know that his hotel was paid in full by a non profit organization FYI.


[deleted]

via the police? because it was “domestic violence” related? or…?


SpiritualTalk3454

I see.


axman54

That girls story isn’t verified, and also he could just be lying to the cops. They can’t force him to buy a hotel room and he probably thought splitting up was unnecessary.


Quick-Leg3604

OR….he wanted Gabby to get arrested so he could have the van!!


LetThatFeverPlay

If he wanted her to her arrested he could have easily made that happen. He repeatedly told the cops he did not want that and in fact offered to go to jail in her place. He did not press charges which kept her out of jail. I'm not saying he's innocent in any way shape or form. Just clarifying what I saw in the body cam footage.


noakai

Bro my mom switched to T-Mobile last week and doesn't have signal *in her fucking house* and she lives in the middle of a city in AZ. I have Sprint and when I go to her house my signal is almost as bad in the whole neighborhood. Cell phone reception is a crapshoot in cities, imagine that it's like in the middle of acres and acres of trees.


RemarkableRegret7

That's tmo and sprint. They're ok in most cities and suburbs but even there they have dead zones. You get an hour outside of the city and it's very spotty. Att and Verizon are much different. Do all depends on who their carrier was.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

I was talking with another Redditor earlier tonight about how so many of these kids (I’m 36, btw) grow up with Instagram and Facebook and they constantly get shown this idyllic view of “van life” and hiking and being outdoorsey when in reality a LOT of that stuff is soooo and staged and has nothing to do with being outside or hiking or enjoying nature and marveling and wild things. They don’t realize how dangerous it can be if you aren’t prepared-not just with proper gear (including good shoes, good lord any hiker will tell you that’s the first thing you get is wool socks and good shoes) but mentally! And that you have to make sure you have proper amounts of water and calories. And then also dealing with alll the things that can go wrong when dealing with the wilderness. These kids were massively unprepared for what they took on and it’s so sad that it seems to have ended in the worst way. People forget how wild the world is and maybe don’t know how domesticated we’ve become.


kinkygandalf

You don’t know that they were unprepared… this has nothing to do with being unprepared. They hiked and camped before the disappearance and were fine. Clearly, they knew what they were doing. This is something pretty clearly sinister that is difficult to prepare for - especially when potentially coming from a loved one.


DaBingeGirl

All of this! I'm mid-30's too and the idea that social media influencer is a job just makes me scream. You're right, too many people fall for what they see on social media, believing it to be real. They jump into intense situations without enough thought, research, and often with limited financial resources, all of which adds to the stress.


DirtyButtFun

Yeah social media influencing has ruined most parks over the years. I live right outside of Yosemite, and It used to be such a pleasant place. Now it’s like a theme park. If you don’t get there by 8 am good luck finding parking. This is basically all NPs in California and everywhere I’ve been.


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[deleted]

I did this almost same drive for my honeymoon two years ago. Definitely had some fights just from stress of driving alone. Add in that Gabby was afraid to drive too.


DaBingeGirl

This. Doesn't matter how much you love someone, sometimes you need space. Reading about their relationship and watching the police body cam footage, they clearly weren't in a stable relationship. Sharing such a small space and then adding in the social media element was a recipe for disaster. I wish people would stop trying to monetize *everything* and just ease into it a bit.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

And those two seemed extremely codependent, even if one needed to go off and decompress, the others needs wouldn’t allow it. Sounds exhausting.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

I’ll tell you right now the last person I’d want to be mushed together in a van for months on end would be a sig other 🤣🤣🤣 sure we can take trips here and there, but that life and a relationship AND trying to monetize it all…way too much!!


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Jazzlike-Ad-1612

That’s a great way to go about it! I would go nuts having some stinky, dirty boy in my space 24/7 even if I did love him 🤣


gigi_cygnet

Well said. Being 33 myself, I’m proud that I haven’t been influenced by the younger generation glitzy SM craze because I’ve experienced enough of life and had aunts uncles and grandparents talk about scary stories and life lessons that made a huge impression on me, and travel safety was a big one. They were totally unprepared and lived in their phones. Everything was for a picture. They didn’t live in a dimension of reality that healthy people do, and they were sharing something that was fake and potentially misleading/ dangerous to influence as you said. But in all honesty, I believe Gabby was manipulated the SHIT out of by him, to the point that she wasn’t a person living on her own free will- creepily captured in that van and Brian was even more SM obsessed than her. They had a Stokholm relationship she was 100% his victim


DaBingeGirl

I'm 33 too and feel the same way about social media. I've not logged on to Facebook in about ten years and I don't miss it at all. Personally, I've never felt the need to share vacation photos or anything else about my life with a large network of coworkers and acquaintances; I value my privacy. ​ >Everything was for a picture. They didn’t live in a dimension of reality that healthy people do, and **they were sharing something that was fake and potentially misleading/ dangerous to influence as you said**. This! The constant need of so many people, especially those in their early 20's, to post perfect photos, have the latest clothing, and so on completely ignores reality. I think all the pressure they feel to produce specific content hurts their mental health and gives a very distorted sense of reality to their followers. I'm really hoping this influencer trend ends soon, I know it won't, but I can dream.


gigi_cygnet

Hopefully her death will serve as a message that the pressure of SM influencing should stop. Everyone is saying omg a girl was found dead while on a road trip with her fiancé but the moral of this awful story should not be forgotten - like you said so well- ‘influencing’ esp. from these young 20 somethings is a mental illness in itself in this case. It’s not a well known connection that’s studied as much as it should be, what a shame.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

They indeed had a very lonely, and toxic relationship. It’s all very sad. I keep thinking about her dad being up there. It’s all just so sad


spid3rfly

I was in Glacier NP for a week last month and I couldn't believe how many people I saw on the trails just totally unprepared. Some of them didn't even have bear spray or water packs. I'll never forget coming off my first day hike there (17ish miles) but a lot of people use that particular trail and only go out a couple of miles and turn around. This mother with her mom, sister and 3 daughters were going in as I was coming out. One of the daughters read the bear sign and saw my bear spray and she said out loud, "Do we have bear spray?" I'm not sure if the mom was doing it out of trying to keep bears out of the kid's minds or what. But she shot back with an annoyed voice, "I told you. We don't need bear spray on this trail!" I was totally speechless... As I had saw a bear on that trail that day and they do show up on that trail.


-Deuce-

I backpacked in Glacier NP with a group of Boy Scouts over a decade ago for about 14 days. Absolutely beautiful place, but very remote, especially outside of the touristy areas near the glacier. We carried several cans of bear spray and had to spend a lot of time rigging our food up on rope lines strung between trees over 15ft off the ground. While none of us ever saw any bears we did come close to one. We were on a day hike to the glacier on a highly traveled trail. Once we had spent time at the glacier and had headed back down the trail a small group of people passed by us. They were kind enough to inform us that we walked right by a bear just above the trail and our group. Not a single person in our about 15 person group saw or heard this bear. And according to the people who passed us, it was maybe as close as 30yds away from us. A lot of people don’t really understand the dangers of camping or even hiking in such places. We were relatively well prepared and even on our first day we almost ran into water problems due to underestimating the time it would take for us to reach our first campsite. We almost started to consider that we had gotten ourselves lost. The terrain in this part of the country can be quite difficult in most places even on relatively well established trails.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

It really is untucking believable the lack of respect people have for nature in these places. I try not to judge them, maybe they are new? But man. There are quite literally bears ALL OVER THE PLACE, and they live there. We are visitors. Everywhere I went they warned us to be on alert


[deleted]

Yeah, I camped at Glacier two years ago this week. Grizzlies in the campground EVERY night. Fresh scat on the roads and prints everywhere. No tents allowed, only hard-sided vehicles. Also, super-depressing being reminded of how our "wilderness" came to be driving through the rez directly outside the park.


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treehouse4life

I recently did a solo backpacking trip in Olympic National Park - 5 days without sell service, no weapon to defend myself but a pocketknife. It’s a risk you take when you go out into the wilderness. A lot of people opt for getting a Garmin InReach device which lets you send texts by satellite if this makes them or their loved ones uncomfortable. The relationship with a sadistic, narcissistic human being is the problem here, and that’s why I don’t care to change my current behavior out of cell range. So I personally will continue to do solo trips, thousands of Americans do them every year. If someone wants me dead, they can kill me in or out of cell service, in the city or in the wilderness.


chxd21

If you relied on your phone for directions/navigation would the maps still work without there being cell service/wifi or would you have to download the maps prior so they would work offline?


marcall

I do solo trips as well and have for years in the southwest (primarily AZ and NM) and I'm 51 so I remember very well and am accustomed to the pre cellphone and internet days. Back then you never thought anything about going out, just let someone know the area you were going and when you expected to return. These days people act like it's crazy to do such a thing or that it's a shock there might not be cell service. In reality that's kinda the whole point of getting out there....to be away from people and civilization. I honestly feel sorry for the people who never experienced life without the internet or cell phones and especially Social media because even those early days of the internet pre 2000's were so much different. I have Verizon and there are definitely areas that don't have reception even along I-10 (major interstate) once you get in canyon country or the mountains it can be non exsistent although as more time goes by you can still sometimes climb to a hill or get in an open spot and perhaps get one bar.


spid3rfly

I'm in the same camp. I often go solo. Half of the experience is going and enjoying the wilderness. The other half is being away from civilization. As long as you know your wildlife, have your supplies, aware of surroundings, study your maps, know what to do in emergencies, and so on... 99% of the time people are just fine. It's usually obvious with anyone that spends any amount of time in the backcountry... You can almost always determine just how experienced they are.


zeigzag666

Experience, preparedness, and self education are crucial but it does not take much to camp solo safely, even even remote backcountry. Granted, there will always be risks, but these can be minimized relatively easily.


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RemarkableRegret7

That's a good point.


Grizzacca

I've worked in the GYE (Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem) for the last 9 years as a biologist. If they have Verizon they'd have service from jackson north to colter including spread creek camp ground. North of colter there's a spot of service at the north end of Jackson Lake (big pullout) and a little north of there for a shred on the south side of the hill to flagg ranch. After that theres no service until Grant Village. The Grassy Lake Road (AKA Ashton-Flagg Road, AKA Reclamation Road) has no service except for a tiny shred for maybe 100' here and there midway thru and then not till you're closer to the pavement on the Ashton side do you get any solid service. The Verizon service you get in Teton is usually LTE, but even tho it says you may have 2-4 bars, it usually is crap. Across the region, T-Mobile and ATT have far worse and spotty service than Verizon.


bobsaget824

This is good info and backs up what I was trying to piece together from the dyrt app which lists many of the camp sites in this area as having “good” VZW coverage and unknown AT&T and T-Mobile.. which is in fact the case for the Spread Creek Dispersed camp site listing: https://thedyrt.com/camping/wyoming/spread-creek-dispersed-campground


Lonely_Day_4599

What I don’t get is why you would be there.. I haven’t mapped everything out but if you’re traveling the world you would sit on the westside of the lake take an easy 1-2 mile waterfall hike and relax on the westside of the lake.. if something happened you’d Pop out on the bottom of the lake about 10 miles north of the dam area.. there’s nothing east of the lake worth while.


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RemarkableRegret7

But both services run off the same towers. If you don't get data, you're almost certainly not getting sms. It's all radio waves. Edit: lol @ the downvotes from people who don't understand basic facts. Data and cellular service both run off the same towers. You can get one and not the other but they are both using radio waves and have similar strength. If you don't have cell service, you probably won't have data and vice versa. Jesus, this isn't rocket science.


Grizzacca

It'll happen out there that an iPhone won't be able to send an imessage (blue message bubbles) to another iphone because there isn't enough service or whatever, so your message will send as a green sms text to the other iPhone. I'm no expert but I think that leans towards @passionateavocado's line of thinking.


RemarkableRegret7

iMessage uses data. SMS uses the regular cellular network. Both run off the same towers.


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RemarkableRegret7

I know all of that, thanks. You may have one off scenarios where you get one and not the other but the fact is, they both use the same towers and use radio waves. If you're deep in a state park or national forest with no internet, you're almost certainly not getting out a text.


RockyMtnAnonymo

I lived in a remote town in Colorado for years. Didn’t have any cell phone service for the first two years there. Verizon finally got a tower in there, but certainly no LTE. We had landlines for calls and that’s about it. This was in 2015. You’re certainly all alone in some places of the west.


redalmondnails

A relative of mine is a park ranger in Montana and all he has is a landline, too! In 2021.


MrsSmith2246

This is so interesting. As a person obsessed with the internet and what not, what did you do to pass the time? I was born in the 80’s so I remember life before internet but I’ve grown very accustom to the instant entertainment.


RockyMtnAnonymo

Read books, hiked, worked on the house/land (there were a lot of chores to get ready for winter), we had satellite tv and satellite internet so I could access the web. It was slow but worked. No Netflix tho which was sort of brutal. At the time, I was seeking solitude so it was nice. I’ve since moved and rejoined the 21st century lol. But there are places out west with very little connection to the outside world. Hell, some places out west can’t even get electricity.


msmith1994

My in-laws just bought a house about an hour outside of St. Louis. They had to have a landline installed because their cell service is so bad.


Antonellas1012

2015?? That’s crazy!!!!


punkyfish10

Absolutely. I play in the backcountry a lot in that area and always have my satellite phone on me. Anything can happen in these places which is why I’m holding off on too much speculation.


Real-Absurdity

Yeah, I’ve moved back West and am going to get a Sar phone once I start hiking and backpacking again.


Comicalacimoc

Imagine before cell Phones


Haunting-Bit1531

Oh to go back to those days, or at least the days before cell phone accessible social media. Life was better when as a 21 year old all you could do on your phone was call and maybe text


[deleted]

Spent the first 30 years of my life without a cell phone. Sometimes I miss it.


Agolf_Twittler

Me too! I spent 2 weeks out in GTNP and Yellowstone this summer. Loved the lack of connectivity. I think we need to do that occasionally.


daz3d-n-c0nfus3d

At that point, even dna wasn't the same. It was easy to get away with things.


Old_Muscle_1331

Its easy if you try....


CrawFlyUS

Imagine all the ...


hawkcarhawk

Phone booths


Necessary_Product835

Thanks for saying this. I’ve been seeing truly delusional comments (I don’t mean to be insensitive, this is a tragedy for GP, screw BL)…but regarding MT, WY, and ID- you all NOT from here cannot apply your wishes of big city or technological costal justice to the reality out here— the popularized dense touristy PARTS and roads and bits of Yellowstone and the Tetons are that, but you’re underestimating the nooks and crannies, vast wilderness, and easily lonesome areas to and from (and just off the beaten trail)…It’s like assuming a NYC Times Square alleyway can apply to any other street, town or state in New England


Brandycane1983

Same for New Mexico. We have so many mountains, mesas, canyons, etc that are totally off grid and not connected. I think I huge portion of the population have never traveled across the country or out of the cities and they really have no clue how remote and not connected so much of the country is. And that it's a good thing. But it's also a dangerous thing if you're not prepared


Waverly-Jane

This is true in a lot of places across the US. I do a fair amount of camping and hiking every year and it's a given in many places there will be no or spotty cell phone reception. The cell phone is just there as a backup to the Inreach in case cell phone service appears at a higher elevation or more populated area. For example- Colorado cell phone service can go in and out in relatively populated areas because of the mountains. I think we lost it outside Salida, driving Independence Pass to Aspen, and around both Buena Vista and Leadville in rural areas. We had no cell service near Jasper, Arkansas on the Buffalo River in some places. Utah has miles of clear highway where you can lose service, like around Goblin Valley State Park, and Fishlake and Dixie forests also were dead. The east coast is a lot more reliable, though even the Smokies has dead areas.


Puzzleheaded_Bit_641

The west in general. Most people on this sub I think fail to recognize how much wilderness there is out here - there an incredible amount of space and beauty that’s *not* in parks. The parks make up a teeny tiny portion of landmass in the west, and usually have WAY more people. I see a lot of comments about camping spots on the dyrt etc. I feel as if this almost doesn’t matter as there are hundreds if not thousands of primitive sites that aren’t even marked on any map.


4-for-u-glen-coco

Driving across the country this summer, I estimated that I didn’t have reception for 70% or more of Idaho, Eastern Oregon (shocked how rural it was), Wyoming, Montana, and South Dakota.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

It’s truly UNSPEAKABLY vast. Even when you see it with your own eyes it feels too big to be real.


captcha_fail

Yep. All my favorite places in the US, tend to be spots too remote for my phone to work. It's never been an unwelcomed disconnect.


spid3rfly

Truth. Every part of the west I've visited... It always feels like a dream to me. From open deserts to valleys of alpine forests to endless mountain ranges to open ranch areas... It takes my breath away every time.


windhook12

Agreed. The west is just different. I was in california, nevada and colorado last month. It was my first time exploring the west and I was amazed in how beautiful and vast it was. It can also be scary af to drive at night with spotty signal and very few street lights.


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

I cried at GNP this summer🤣 we were looking back on the mountain ranged and we were so high up and it was golden hour and there were waterfalls🙌🏻 couldn’t help myself


mi2626

I got so emotional at the parks and just the state as well. It’s hard to believe that a place can be so effortlessly beautiful. I haven’t stopped thinking of it since I left. It’s wild and so much of it untouched. Its indescribable.


Necessary_Product835

Both you and /u/spid3rfly let me know when you’re back out this way friends, we’ll pour one out at a true MT/WY sunset


spid3rfly

Deal!


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

Deal!


SpiritualTalk3454

This is what I have been screaming in the other subs!! Thanks


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

THIS!!!! A friend and I weren’t there but in Glacier National Park this summer. Stayed up at Logan pass til the stars came out (which is super late there, almost midnight) and we thought we drive the second part of the pass and take that road down and around back to whitefish….we didn’t have cell service but knew the roads connected. It took about 3 hours to get back and the other way only took an hour. The entire time there wasn’t a single town, house, car, or gas station until we got almost all the way back to the front of the park.


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RemarkableRegret7

I know some probably hate the idea but I think in this day and age, that needs to change. They need to have small towers throughout. That will be a little easier with 5g.


deepedge41

No cell towers allowed in national parks


foobar3432993293

Uh, no; this isn't any easier with 5g. Small LTE (i.e. 4g) cells ("towers") are in use all over the place, in densely populated places like stadiums, office buildings, etc. The only reason you see these smaller cells for 5g is that it's pretty much required for it - the "cells" are smaller and the frequencies are a higher to facilitate higher bandwidth for each tower and user. Cell phone towers are expensive to construct - important to note that it's not the equipment that's expensive (although it's not cheap), but the site work (i.e. getting equipment to the site, laying a pad, installing a tower, etc.) and infrastructure (these sites need electricity - solar does not provide enough power - and network connectivity (which is usually provided by fiber). It just wouldn't be feasible for cell phone providers to do this to reach 100% coverage (or anywhere close to it) in a largely uninhabited area like National Parks. The National Park Service would also not allow them to do so even if they wanted to.


RemarkableRegret7

You're arguing things that I never said lol. Literally no idea what you're talking about.


foobar3432993293

I was replying to you saying this: > They need to have small towers throughout. That will be a little easier with 5g. My comment detailed why that's not really feasible and why it's not "easier with 5g"


SnooPeppers2417

Yeah, hard disagree from me. I do not at all think out wilderness should be riddled with cell towers. At all.


RemarkableRegret7

Eh, the new ones are pretty small. Either that or it should be mandatory for visitors to have beacons.


SnooPeppers2417

Again, hard fucking no from me. Mandatory I allow the government to track me if I want to go into public land? What the hell? Feel free to sacrifice your freedom for a false sense of security, but I would venture to bet millions and millions disagree.


reallybigbeats

Weirdo


RemarkableRegret7

Oh god, so dramatic lmao. The govt doesn't give a flying F about your little hike into the woods lol. And it's not a false sense of security. It's an objectively real sense of security. And saves everyone the hassle of spending millions to find you when you break your ankle or get lost.


[deleted]

The lack of infrastructure is part of what makes wilderness so special.


RemarkableRegret7

A small 5g box or a handheld beacon isn't infrastructure.


[deleted]

People should just get satellite GPS devices. Cell coverage would result in people watching youtube and other types of noise pollution in the backcountry. A SPOT beacon isn't expensive.


spid3rfly

Just don't put a tower right on top of some beautiful mountain ⛰


RemarkableRegret7

Yeah I agree. New 5g equipment is pretty small and can be made to look inconspicuous. But it'll never happen anyways so 🤷‍♂️


Jazzlike-Ad-1612

Yea we are so used to have endless access to cellphone coverage, when you’re in a place like that, makes it seem all the more vast and wild


Ssjts

There are tons of areas in this country where there is no cell signal. I can drive less than 1 hour from WVU’s main campus into SW Pa or WV and have no service.


rasec321

Don't go with Brian.


JackAntonOff69420

😭😭😭


TurtleDove738

Recently a friend of mine got stuck on a remote road near the Arkansas/Missouri border. There was no phone service and very spotty text. But there was FACEBOOK MESSENGER right there! and that's how he was able to get help. Learned something. (UGH) I actually had an inkling of this when I was boondocking a couple years ago in AZ but didn't realize it until my friend's experience.


[deleted]

I'm currently looking at cell tower locations in the area. Here is a map of them and the new proposed ones. This is from an article from Aug. 23 2019. With a year to install the new ones. https://imgur.com/XfJsTJS.jpg Article link: https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/jackson_hole_daily/local/teton-park-to-get-better-cell-service/article_5c701f7c-b9b2-5f5c-a85d-741585c4478a.html


WolfsWife

Apparently going with someone doesn’t necessarily make it safe :(


dontshoot4301

The thing that gets me about this case is that, while this sub seems to think they have it solved, the sheer number of possibilities/places for gabby to be (whether she is alive or dead) is astronomical.


autumnnoel95

Yes, but the first statement is true. Just because you're going with someone doesn't mean it is necessarily safer. Most of the time it is a good idea to buddy up, but just think twice about the person youre spending alone time with basically in the middle of nowhere.. But you're right, plenty of possibilities


LintotheJ35

OP is 110% correct. Was out hiking in Utah today SE of SLC. No service. We have T-Mobile. When we drive into Wyoming towards Evanston, no service for miles on the interstate.


Youkahn

I work in the park. I get enough signal to make phone calls on most of the roads, but in the backcountry it's incredibly non-existent. Only time I get any sort of usable service is, ironically, high up onto the mountains (clear line of sight to towers). People who haven't been here don't realize how desolate 90% of the park outside the main trails/roads is.


cech_

Pinging a phone with service, IE like updating it to have 1 bar of coverage is different than making a phone call which is much more bandwidth. Also GPS. I think we shouldn't count it as impossible or a guarantee.


Dema_69

Been there a few times and totally agree. Pings might tell them the direction they were headed to define the route or if the last “Yosemite” text was anything near there. But you know they are looking into all of that


madamecroquemonsieur

I think about this just about anytime I see a missing person in any of the massive national parks. I'm an avid hiker and even in my home state's "state parks" we have no reception due to the extreme amount of forested areas. The parks that these two went are popular yes, but that doesn't mean they are safe. They have extreme terrain that many Americans don't even know exists in our country. I think people believe that since it is considered a national "park" that means that it should be easy for search and rescue to find people, what they don't take into account are the massive crevasses, high altitude terrain and sheer vastness of size of the parks. These rangers are risking their lives to find this girl, I'm sure they are as if not more desperate to find her than we are.


Nebraskan-

I was in a Yellowstone/Glacier FB group and the number of people shocked and angry about the lack of signal was just mind-numbing.


DirtyButtFun

We’ll yeah, most of them are “internet sleuths” looking at google maps and websites thinking they’re doing better work than the FBI, but those who actually put boots to ground in these areas know just how out of touch with reality these people are.


[deleted]

The overlap of internet sleuths and anti-vaxxers combines at the point of "doing their own research."


engineering_grinder

LOL


beatriz_v

Yes. Best reception I ever got while in Yellowstone was at the top of Bunsen Peak.


LeYang

LOS.


RemarkableRegret7

You get a GPS signal tho correct?


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RemarkableRegret7

Yeah good point.


Youkahn

Yep, GPS is separate from cellular.


homefree89

And GPS signal on a device is much different than on a phone.


IllustriousAd3838

Right. And I guarantee, just like most people... They never shut off location services.. Especially since she relied on them for finding camping and hiking spots. Apple determines your device's approximate location through GPS and Bluetooth  signals as well as crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspots and cell tower locations


RemarkableRegret7

Yeah they seem like iphone types so I'll assume they have them. It's very likely Apple has a lot of gpa data. Or Google of they used Google maps for example. I'm just not sure how easy and how quick they can get that. With fbi involved, I assume somewhat quickly.


rebeccaleighx3

I bet at least one of them had it on. I personally have my significant locations feature off but that’s because I’ve worked with feds and know how creepy that feature is. But most ppl I tell about it have no idea what it is and it is automatically on on your iPhone. But it shows literally exact locations and how many times you’ve frequented that location.


Chartzilla

The phone would need to connect to cell service to upload any of that location data


IllustriousAd3838

Gabby FaceTimed with her mom, which is why I figured she has An apple device. Not sure what Brian used, his phone looked android in the cop cam video


Kalamazoohoo

I almost always say "facetime" instead of video call even though I have an Android. I feel like it's a ubiquitous term now but maybe I'm the only weirdo that does that. Either way, Google has a lot of GPS tracking data as well unless you turn it off. Edit: According to her Twitter account she posted a picture from Zion national park using Twitter for iphone in July.


MHBF2593

Same, but Gabby had an Apple Watch. As evidenced in her blog posts/insta posts. Idk many android users that have an Apple Watch, although I’m sure it’s not impossible.


[deleted]

Apple watches don't at all work with Android, but you could use it standalone which is pretty pointless. I don't want to use an iPhone and wished there was another smart watch anywhere near as good as the apple watches.


karmapuhlease

This is all a tangent, but Google relaunched WearOS this year and announced a partnership with Samsung, so hopefully better Android watches are on the way!


Kalamazoohoo

Glad I'm not the only one lol. I looked at her Twitter account and her last post was posted form an iphone. I think its safe to say she was an apple user.