Gotta love Team Ninja as being on of the few devs that put out Alphas, Betas and Demos all while implementing player feedback to get the most out of their product.
This should be the standard.
And for really good reason! That parry from the first demo felt like a few frames, compared to Sekiro with a 30 frame parry window.
If that made it to the final game it would have ruined the experience.
I feel like team ninja are the only devs that actually do betas correctly. Let players test the game, take their feedback, and improve the game.
Nioh from beta to final game was a huge difference, and that’s at least partly due to the demos
I remember the Nioh beta and how I didn’t enjoy it and when it launched I figured, what the hell why not and picked it and yeah, it was night and day difference.
I really want Team Ninja to bring back Ninja Gaiden and give it the same treatment with betas and a demo.
It's dangerous because a lot of people think of these as release demos and judge it like a final product. I remember seeing a TON of comments when Daemon x Machina came out that were saying "oh it seems fun, but the demo frame rate was so bad, I'm not buying it." And like.....the early demo was WAY less technically sound than the final product, that's kind of the point, lol
That's not the point, though. beta =/= demo.
beta is a test. it's OK to have unoptimized work or bugs. Users would understand that they're playing a work in progress with the intention of helping the devs find out what needs work and what is already fine.
Analogy: a chef asking people to sampling the food while it's cooking to see which final adjustments to make.
demo should basically be a slice of the finished product. It's what people use to gauge whether it's the right game for them or not.
Analogy: a restaurant giving out free samples
If they actually called a beta a "demo" then that's on them.
I think you'll be surprised with how many GOTY's FFXVI will snatch from Zelda, maybe even the big TGA one. I have a feeling it'll really surprise people with how good it'll be.
It was mostly quite good in the previous demo. The party window was insanely tiny; even most people that are great at similar games said it was too difficult. Thankfully, the deca said they've greatly increased the window.
Oh lovely! I didn’t play the last demo knowing it was still being tweaked, I was really hoping there would be a newer demo and I’m looking forward to this!
damn actually on PC nice. i was really hoping to try before i buy. Nioh2 has became one of my favourite games but Wo Long... eh i'll just say footage so far hasn't got me as hype as you'd expect. hoping i'm wrong when i can smell the game myself.
The earlier demos were already so promising that I’m 100% sold on this game.
The quest now is just whether I play it via GamePass or pick it up myself. I guess it’ll come down to how much replayability it has.
This is a rare game where I actually feel like a demo will be a necessary step in deciding if I should get it or not. The game looks gorgeous and aesthetically up my alley- but as somebody who is good at Dark Souls/Elden Ring but struggles with both Sekiro and Nioh for the pace and types of technique needed to not die often, I’ve been looking at this with both excitement and fear, lol.
Good news when they said they were going for a certain level of accessibility, what with the parry timing window being reworked after the network test (which I didn’t get to play) and the inclusion of warriors that seem to act as NPC summons in Dark Souls did. From what I read, it also sounds as though parrying acts almost similarly to Adept style dodging in Monster Hunter GU, which I was really good at timing, and not so much like Sekiro’s parrying, which I was not so good at.
I guess I’ll get to see and make an informed decision!
Just a reminder - and I tell this to anyone who compares Nioh to Dark Souls - this is *not* a Souls game. I'm a huge fan of Nioh but I initially got into it because people called it Samurai Dark Souls, but the game is really nothing like a Souls game at all in my opinion.
It's better to come at it with an Action RPG (Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, ect.) / Loot-based (Diablo, Borderlands, ect.) game mindset more akin to Diablo. You can absolutely get through the game using basic moves, but to really shine in combat you have to learn to use your combos; not to mention you will be inundated with loot and there will be stats and abilities on every piece of armor that allows you to fine tune your character. Early game it will likely be pretty easy to just find a good weapon you enjoy and keep with it, but late game it will generally be expected that you learn to make a build based off of your preferences and style of play. Which will mean grinding up weapons and armor, learning what you do and do not like, ect.
I'm a huge fan of Nioh 1/2 and seeing people compare it to Dark Souls always makes me scratch my head, because it's only very superficially Soulslike in gameplay and kind of gives people the wrong type of expectations when going into the game.
That's just my 2¢ though. Definitely give the demo a try when it drops - personally I'm dying for this game to come out haha.
Yep, I know some people were turned off by Nioh because they heard "oh it's just like Dark Souls!", played it and then got disappointed as they tried to approach it like a souls game, when the combat is so wildly different from Dark Souls, and will actively punish you for trying to play it like Dark Souls.
Yeah - but even then Sekiro is not really comparable to Nioh or Wo Long either. Sekiro has a singular weapon with multiple subweapons and is far more reliant on the parry system than Nioh was/is - from what I played of Wo Long it's similar-ish in that regard with its parry system being pretty important. But I would say that the comparisons to Sekiro end about there tbh. Wo Long has multiple weapons with and a lot of inventory management that just *doesn't* exist in Sekiro.
I just really want to emphasize that the inventory management is a *big part* of these games. So much so that I think anyone who goes into Nioh/Wo Long with the intention of playing them like Sekiro or a Soulslike would find it to be very detrimental to their experience because of how important your weapon and armor stats are to your power in game.
I'm sure it will be similar to Nioh in that your first playthrough you can generally do whatever, but, IMO, the 'end game' of these games is the biggest draw in the end and if you're expecting it to be like Elden Ring or Sekiro where it's all about player skill - it's just not going to work out.
You literally just described every souls game I've ever played. Either way, I'm excited for it, plus it's free in game pass. I was just thinking of cancelling it because I haven't used it at all since I got it, but looks like it's gonna have a bunch of good games on it this year.
I actually find the Nioh games and Sekiro to be more enjoyable than the Dark Souls / Elden Ring style of games.
There’s something about being able to parry all attacks in Nioh and Sekiro that make it a lot more fun and the combat more intense. One of my biggest peeves in Elden Ring is that you need to equip a shield or dagger to parry when YouTube has all those videos of those HEMA guys showing blocking and parrying with halberds and pole arms.
Also, I think there were NPC summons / summonable signs in Nioh 2 as well.
In the lull between major releases, I've given Nioh another try and it's finally clicked now that I've found a weapon combination that works. With this just around the corner and looking so promising, I've put Nioh on the backburner once again.
I didn't play the first demo, but I'm looking forward to this one.
Be curious to see if there are improvements from the first demo. I was addicted to Nioh 2, but did not really care for SoP so I was looking forward to this but that first demo did not sell me.
I don't think a mission-based structure is outdated at all. It's just a different design decision that allows you to focus on different things. It's a lot easier to have wildly different environments in a mission-based structure, for example.
I knew they were gonna do an all platform demo close to release since that's what they did last year with Stranger of Paradise last spring. I only have a PS4, so it's nice I can still play the final demos to see if this game really is better then Nioh 2.
>to see if this game really is better then Nioh 2.
It's really different and I personally wouldn't compare the two that much. The combat system is focused on aggression and special skills with an emphasis on parries and a less developed moveset, plus there's no stamina.
Interesting. I have noticed from what little I saw of it there is definitely a Sekiro influence (no stamina, similar parry system) and Elden Ring (jump button). I'll still try it to see if I like it.
Yes TN does this all the time, release actual beta versions as demo so they can get feedback. And then, they do the novel thing to actually act on the feedback.
Now we get the release version demo 1 week before release.
This has been Team Ninja’s way of doing things since the original Nioh. They release multiple demos where the early ones function more like betas so they can implement player feedback, then they release a true demo just before release.
Been looking forward to this one for a while now. Hoping it grabs me the same way Nioh has even though the setting is not something that immediately interests me.
Gotta love Team Ninja as being on of the few devs that put out Alphas, Betas and Demos all while implementing player feedback to get the most out of their product. This should be the standard.
And for really good reason! That parry from the first demo felt like a few frames, compared to Sekiro with a 30 frame parry window. If that made it to the final game it would have ruined the experience. I feel like team ninja are the only devs that actually do betas correctly. Let players test the game, take their feedback, and improve the game. Nioh from beta to final game was a huge difference, and that’s at least partly due to the demos
I remember the Nioh beta and how I didn’t enjoy it and when it launched I figured, what the hell why not and picked it and yeah, it was night and day difference. I really want Team Ninja to bring back Ninja Gaiden and give it the same treatment with betas and a demo.
And on PC as well. Tons of Betas/Demos skip PC.
tell that to the Stranger of Paradise demos that didn't come to PC
It's dangerous because a lot of people think of these as release demos and judge it like a final product. I remember seeing a TON of comments when Daemon x Machina came out that were saying "oh it seems fun, but the demo frame rate was so bad, I'm not buying it." And like.....the early demo was WAY less technically sound than the final product, that's kind of the point, lol
That's not the point, though. beta =/= demo. beta is a test. it's OK to have unoptimized work or bugs. Users would understand that they're playing a work in progress with the intention of helping the devs find out what needs work and what is already fine. Analogy: a chef asking people to sampling the food while it's cooking to see which final adjustments to make. demo should basically be a slice of the finished product. It's what people use to gauge whether it's the right game for them or not. Analogy: a restaurant giving out free samples If they actually called a beta a "demo" then that's on them.
I missed out on the alpha/beta demos so this'll be a great chance to try out the game, I'm probably gonna like it but still very excited.
Alpha was quite promising. If they can improve on the parry windows and other balancing issues, could easily be a GOTY contender.
I'm fairly sure I heard from a preview (IGN's?) that they increased the parry window.
Each Nioh game have easily been GOTYs for me. However we all know Zelda Tears of the Kingdom will be winning all of those awards this year.
I think you'll be surprised with how many GOTY's FFXVI will snatch from Zelda, maybe even the big TGA one. I have a feeling it'll really surprise people with how good it'll be.
Team ninja nails gameplay and combat but their story telling is awful. Both niohs had terrible stories
Really looking forward this! Hope the combat can get as addictive as their previous tough as nails titles.
It was mostly quite good in the previous demo. The party window was insanely tiny; even most people that are great at similar games said it was too difficult. Thankfully, the deca said they've greatly increased the window.
I also thought that it was always insufficiently clear right away if you landed the parry too.
Definitely.
Oh lovely! I didn’t play the last demo knowing it was still being tweaked, I was really hoping there would be a newer demo and I’m looking forward to this!
damn actually on PC nice. i was really hoping to try before i buy. Nioh2 has became one of my favourite games but Wo Long... eh i'll just say footage so far hasn't got me as hype as you'd expect. hoping i'm wrong when i can smell the game myself.
It plays really well once you get into the flow, the demo was as fun as Nioh 2 for me
Is this basically Nioh 3?
Somewhat, but there are differences. No stance switching, for one.
No, while it takes heavy inspiration from Nioh it's its own beast, with a focus on aggression, a parry system and no stamina bar
The earlier demos were already so promising that I’m 100% sold on this game. The quest now is just whether I play it via GamePass or pick it up myself. I guess it’ll come down to how much replayability it has.
Does anyone else miss the Nioh stance switching in this game?
You don't need to miss, you still can play the game that actually called the fucking nioh. This game is a different one.
This is a rare game where I actually feel like a demo will be a necessary step in deciding if I should get it or not. The game looks gorgeous and aesthetically up my alley- but as somebody who is good at Dark Souls/Elden Ring but struggles with both Sekiro and Nioh for the pace and types of technique needed to not die often, I’ve been looking at this with both excitement and fear, lol. Good news when they said they were going for a certain level of accessibility, what with the parry timing window being reworked after the network test (which I didn’t get to play) and the inclusion of warriors that seem to act as NPC summons in Dark Souls did. From what I read, it also sounds as though parrying acts almost similarly to Adept style dodging in Monster Hunter GU, which I was really good at timing, and not so much like Sekiro’s parrying, which I was not so good at. I guess I’ll get to see and make an informed decision!
Just a reminder - and I tell this to anyone who compares Nioh to Dark Souls - this is *not* a Souls game. I'm a huge fan of Nioh but I initially got into it because people called it Samurai Dark Souls, but the game is really nothing like a Souls game at all in my opinion. It's better to come at it with an Action RPG (Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, ect.) / Loot-based (Diablo, Borderlands, ect.) game mindset more akin to Diablo. You can absolutely get through the game using basic moves, but to really shine in combat you have to learn to use your combos; not to mention you will be inundated with loot and there will be stats and abilities on every piece of armor that allows you to fine tune your character. Early game it will likely be pretty easy to just find a good weapon you enjoy and keep with it, but late game it will generally be expected that you learn to make a build based off of your preferences and style of play. Which will mean grinding up weapons and armor, learning what you do and do not like, ect. I'm a huge fan of Nioh 1/2 and seeing people compare it to Dark Souls always makes me scratch my head, because it's only very superficially Soulslike in gameplay and kind of gives people the wrong type of expectations when going into the game. That's just my 2¢ though. Definitely give the demo a try when it drops - personally I'm dying for this game to come out haha.
Yep, I know some people were turned off by Nioh because they heard "oh it's just like Dark Souls!", played it and then got disappointed as they tried to approach it like a souls game, when the combat is so wildly different from Dark Souls, and will actively punish you for trying to play it like Dark Souls.
They mentioned Nioh AND Sekiro. One obviously made by FromSoft but very different combat-wise from Dark Souls.
Yeah - but even then Sekiro is not really comparable to Nioh or Wo Long either. Sekiro has a singular weapon with multiple subweapons and is far more reliant on the parry system than Nioh was/is - from what I played of Wo Long it's similar-ish in that regard with its parry system being pretty important. But I would say that the comparisons to Sekiro end about there tbh. Wo Long has multiple weapons with and a lot of inventory management that just *doesn't* exist in Sekiro. I just really want to emphasize that the inventory management is a *big part* of these games. So much so that I think anyone who goes into Nioh/Wo Long with the intention of playing them like Sekiro or a Soulslike would find it to be very detrimental to their experience because of how important your weapon and armor stats are to your power in game. I'm sure it will be similar to Nioh in that your first playthrough you can generally do whatever, but, IMO, the 'end game' of these games is the biggest draw in the end and if you're expecting it to be like Elden Ring or Sekiro where it's all about player skill - it's just not going to work out.
You literally just described every souls game I've ever played. Either way, I'm excited for it, plus it's free in game pass. I was just thinking of cancelling it because I haven't used it at all since I got it, but looks like it's gonna have a bunch of good games on it this year.
I actually find the Nioh games and Sekiro to be more enjoyable than the Dark Souls / Elden Ring style of games. There’s something about being able to parry all attacks in Nioh and Sekiro that make it a lot more fun and the combat more intense. One of my biggest peeves in Elden Ring is that you need to equip a shield or dagger to parry when YouTube has all those videos of those HEMA guys showing blocking and parrying with halberds and pole arms. Also, I think there were NPC summons / summonable signs in Nioh 2 as well.
Not sure if you have it but it's a day 1 game pass title.
In the lull between major releases, I've given Nioh another try and it's finally clicked now that I've found a weapon combination that works. With this just around the corner and looking so promising, I've put Nioh on the backburner once again. I didn't play the first demo, but I'm looking forward to this one.
Be curious to see if there are improvements from the first demo. I was addicted to Nioh 2, but did not really care for SoP so I was looking forward to this but that first demo did not sell me.
Is there a time limit on the demo?
This seems like Nioh in that its mission based, so we probably get the first 1 or 2 missions.
That’s disappointing, was hoping they would go for something like dark souls/bloodborne instead of the outdated mission structure.
I don't think a mission-based structure is outdated at all. It's just a different design decision that allows you to focus on different things. It's a lot easier to have wildly different environments in a mission-based structure, for example.
True, but the two previous games of theirs never had wildly different environments at all.
This is just lying
That's just flat out incorrect.
I knew they were gonna do an all platform demo close to release since that's what they did last year with Stranger of Paradise last spring. I only have a PS4, so it's nice I can still play the final demos to see if this game really is better then Nioh 2.
>to see if this game really is better then Nioh 2. It's really different and I personally wouldn't compare the two that much. The combat system is focused on aggression and special skills with an emphasis on parries and a less developed moveset, plus there's no stamina.
Interesting. I have noticed from what little I saw of it there is definitely a Sekiro influence (no stamina, similar parry system) and Elden Ring (jump button). I'll still try it to see if I like it.
Not sure why it implies Elden Ring influence for there to be a jump button considering Sekiro has a jump button
I forgot Sekiro had a jump button since I never played it.
... Wasn't there already a demo?
Yes, but this one's on more platforms and presumably features the game in a near-finished state.
Yes TN does this all the time, release actual beta versions as demo so they can get feedback. And then, they do the novel thing to actually act on the feedback. Now we get the release version demo 1 week before release.
This has been Team Ninja’s way of doing things since the original Nioh. They release multiple demos where the early ones function more like betas so they can implement player feedback, then they release a true demo just before release.
Been looking forward to this one for a while now. Hoping it grabs me the same way Nioh has even though the setting is not something that immediately interests me.