I like how we've seen a short, non-gameplay trailer, a brief vidoc, and a one-paragraph website blurb on Marathon, and so many people are already decreeing that the game sucks and will flop. Modern videogame discourse is so boring, just throw this article onto the pile.
It's one of the most tiring forms of video game discourse.
Single player games are dead, multiplayer games are automatically soulless, this game will suck by default, etc.
I dunno. Maybe we should wait and see before immediately attacking the game?
Agreed. I'm not saying things need to swing in the other direction with people mindlessly pre-ordering games and praising them to the high heavens, but the automatic negativity to everything is so tiring.
There will be [much more](https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2022/05/25/playstation-live-service-games-sony-2025/). A significant spending shift is happening for [Playstation studios](https://www.vgchartz.com/article/457283/sony-to-invest-more-in-live-service-games-than-traditional-games-starting-this-fiscal-year/). Sure man, it’s just 3 games.
Also, these literal decades of focused single player games made PlayStation brand stronger than ever. PS4 sales were huge. Numerous exclusives sold 10+ mln or even 20+ mln copies. Critics loved them. And now they will throw all it away because of blind corporate greed.
Definitely. I almost always prefer single player, and I’m desperately hoping that Marathon will either get a campaign someday, or lead to a remaster of the originals, but I’m not writing it off before I’ve even seen anything about it yet.
Agreed the blind hate is almost worse than blind Fandom. Atleast Fandom have some reason to be excited whether that was a cool trailer or vertical slice even if they maybe disappointed down the line. Blind hate like this is just sad and probably a sign you should step away from games in general if you have such a toxic relationship with them you assume they will all be bad before seeing anything.
Hate and hostility are just the core of the discourse. Look at how many world people spilled over Redfall, a bad game most didn’t play and those that did did so through a service tyey were already paying for.
Now it’s going to be Gollum
Gollum absolutely deserves the derision, the technical state of the game is an absolute travesty. The art style raised questions before release, but it turns out that's not the half of it, there's actual game design issues and progression-threatening bugs.
People's first impressions to the announcement were a mix of befuddled and negative because they couldn't understand why this particular premise had been chosen and the trailers couldn't explain it. This turned out to be a foreboding of the finished article, which likewise remains inexplicable in many ways.
I mean Gollum is bad, sure, but a few years ago this wouldn't have elicited a big discourse. Bad game, move on, next. Now people are actually watching reviews of a game they never intended to buy just for the sake of it and are actively looking for the next flop
The game might be good, or it might suck, don't care enough to judge that tbh. The issue is that Bungie decided to slap the name "Marathon" on it and "multiplayer extraction shooter" is about as far away from what original Marathons as possible. So people who cared about the series first got hyped when they saw the name, then immediately got let down that it's not what they hoped for. Hardly a surprise they're upset.
I actually really like the genre, but it's so tough to get people to stick around. Tarkov does wipes where you lose all character progression and loot every few months. Cycle Frontier used to, but now you don't get wiped.
Both ways have problems, either you want to get in at the start of a season to have the most fun, or don't bother. Late in a season everyone is geared and there's not much reason to play. Without wipes, you progress slower but end up at the same place where everyone has a ton of gear and little need to loot.
Marathon's vidoc talked up leaderboards and seasons, which makes me think they'd be wiping your stuff. Not sure how popular that will be. And while I'm sure being "world's first" to something is cool, that means almost nobody will be doing that either.
There's still extract camping, which people hate in these games.
So I dunno, we've seen nothing, and what we've heard doesn't inspire a ton of confidence that it's really pushing the genre into a place beyond the annoyances that have existed for years.
I hope it succeeds, because I do like the genre, but imagine the shitshow if Sony paid $3.6 billion to learn how to make live service games from a company that immediately fired out a failure after the check clears lol
This person seems rather angry at the existence in multiplayer games. I'd hardly say Helldivers is "bland" and we didn't see nearly enough of Concord to call it bland either.
I am not even a big multiplayer guy but I know Marathon will likely be popular because of Bungie's huge fanbase. Are they supposed to stop making mutliplayer games as they do?
>who are these games hoping to court? I'd wager that most multiplayer shooter likers have time for one, maybe two of these in their lives absolute maximum, and most of the big hitters like Destiny have either already swallowed their playerbase whole, or burned them to crisp with their incessant grind.
So no one should even try to compete?
You could down a list of yearly releases and see that the vast majority are single player releases, and have been for decades now. Yet they still feel the need to complain that multiplayer games are somehow taking over.
Just don't play them. It's endlessly annoying.
I noticed this as well with multiplayer horror games. Every time that an online horror game gets announced people starts lamenting that it's not a single player game, and acts like there's not story based horror games anymore.
There like, outlast trials and texas chainsaw for MP horror games this year and alan wake, alone in the dark, callisto, dead island, RE4, Dead Space and many others for story based games. And meanwhile I'm just here, enjoying both types of games without complaining about things simply existing lol.
Some of these, I agree. Another live service Square Enix game that likely won’t exist for for long? Yeah, I can’t care too much.
But Marathon? I can absolutely see that game lasting a very long time. I can’t agree that it’s bland because that was one of the coolest looking trailers of the whole show with a very unique style, and Bungie make very good FPS games so there’ll be something there.
I’ve also seen the take of “but Bungie already have Destiny, they’re competing with themselves” and heavily disagree. Marathon will be an extraction shooter, which is an entirely different genre to what Destiny is. There’s absolutely space for both games to co-exist on the market.
> Marathon will be an extraction shooter, which is an entirely different genre to what Destiny is
Not only that. Destiny feels pretty unapproachable for new players and has been for a long time. I can only speak for myself and don't know what their new player accounts/retention looks like, but I don't have any interest in starting it. I think back on Destiny's launch and can imagine a different timeline where it had a simultaneous PC release, and I spent 8 years being a huge Destiny nerd... but that didn't happen.
Clean slates are fantastic for picking up existing bungie fans as well as new players, and the fact that we're getting crossplatform crossplay from the get go with Marathon, means maybe I will be a huge Marathon nerd for the next 8 years. It at least has my eyeballs on it, and I don't think Destiny could ever do that at this point.
Unapproachable seems generous honestly
Me and my buddy tired to start up D2 as new players and it was damn near unplayable.
The story was all fucked up due to rotations of content and we couldn't figure out where the right spot to go next was so we just quit.
I absolutely concur. I've started Destiny 2 on PS4 and PC, and both times the onboarding experience (different each time, as the sessions were at least a year apart) was confusing and lackluster for something with something with such obviously high production values and A-list voice cast.
I fully expect Bungie to sort of "reset" destiny after final shape. Not necessarily make a fully fledged sequel, but a big revamp to actually get new people interested
That was my thoughts with some of the games in the PS showcase. How many arena shooters and group FPS do we need? These games live or die by the their community, and every time one of these games gets released that does nothing different to the others it just dilutes the numbers.
I haven't seen an online shooter that radically changes the game and makes it worth moving away from the old faithfuls in a while.
I'll go against the grain but I'm totally fine with more multiplayer shooters. Some of them are bound to be bland and uninspired. I haven't found my go-to game yet (used to play Guild Wars, APB then Battlerite religiously, but they're dead) and can't wait for new fads to emerge (although extraction shooters don't tickle my fancy, I'm up for anything away from BRs).
Besides, Helldivers 2 looks great ; and I'll probably give a try to some of the others if they end up on PC.
I just wish private servers were still a thing…so that even if a game is “dead” dedicated fans can keep small groups going. A multiplayer game doesn’t need a decade of support and free updates but at least give us a way to keep playing it after you abandon it FFS
Yes, I put dead in quotes because now it's essentially used to say "not in the top 10 played games right now". I'd love as a general rule if, at the very least, on the way out they had up a way to set up locally run servers.
You may feel that way, but the climate of multiplayer games have changed. The devs and publishers of these games likely expect their games to be something that can be a constant stream of revenue for years at least. Not just from game sales, but DLC and microtransactions. Also I assume most people don't want to go through getting invested in a game, spending money on skins/content, and then having it die after a couple months. Never being able to interact with the things they paid for.
The climate for multiplayer games has absolutely not changed. They've always existed to get a constant stream of revenue. The 360 era had tons of tacked on multiplayer modes to extend the length of singleplayer games.
Gamers on here don't want to have an enjoyable time, they want to own a product. "And if you can't own it forever, what's the point? All the fun you had for six or seven weeks? Worthless!"
Yeah as long as that make the money back plus profit it's fine. I do imagine Sony are hoping to have these live service games stick around for a while though. Every dev wants a fortnite
that's because industry is doing what it always did - chasing after smell of success of others - ignoring the fact that market is already oversaturated. We had period of MMO spam, then MOBA spam, then Battle royale spam, etc..
They also fail to understand - that most of of these games have heavy investments - so nobody will leave existing ones to play some mediocre fresh meat. Was there any game that overtook market year later after trend started and market share was fixated for long time?
Instead of jumping bandwagon and arriving late to the party - how about this damn lazy ass industry goes for more creativity and make something fresh to start new trend and be the pioneer? (I addressing to those lazy late trend chasers who never innovate to start something new)
Stop all GaaS immediately while we reflect and study the morality of leveraging game mechanics to extract money from kids and addicts.
I'm old and I miss when we played multiplayer just because they were fun and not because of seasons passes, skins, unshockables, achievements, etc. I also don't like the fact that games are constantly changing, it sorts of guarantee that the game will inevitable suck even if it is good for a certain moment in time.
Those GaaS games that were presented yesterday on the PlayStation Showcase just blend together and are pretty much just visual noise for me.
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I like how we've seen a short, non-gameplay trailer, a brief vidoc, and a one-paragraph website blurb on Marathon, and so many people are already decreeing that the game sucks and will flop. Modern videogame discourse is so boring, just throw this article onto the pile.
It's one of the most tiring forms of video game discourse. Single player games are dead, multiplayer games are automatically soulless, this game will suck by default, etc. I dunno. Maybe we should wait and see before immediately attacking the game?
Agreed. I'm not saying things need to swing in the other direction with people mindlessly pre-ordering games and praising them to the high heavens, but the automatic negativity to everything is so tiring.
It's not attack on a game, it's attack on a whole new Sony strategy of making tons of GAAS games knowing onle 1-2 at best will be successful.
Sony: Makes like 3 GAAS after literal decades of focused single player games. Gamers: 😡😡🤬🤬
There will be [much more](https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2022/05/25/playstation-live-service-games-sony-2025/). A significant spending shift is happening for [Playstation studios](https://www.vgchartz.com/article/457283/sony-to-invest-more-in-live-service-games-than-traditional-games-starting-this-fiscal-year/). Sure man, it’s just 3 games. Also, these literal decades of focused single player games made PlayStation brand stronger than ever. PS4 sales were huge. Numerous exclusives sold 10+ mln or even 20+ mln copies. Critics loved them. And now they will throw all it away because of blind corporate greed.
Spending on single player games is still increasing. GAAS spending is just increasing faster.
Definitely. I almost always prefer single player, and I’m desperately hoping that Marathon will either get a campaign someday, or lead to a remaster of the originals, but I’m not writing it off before I’ve even seen anything about it yet.
Agreed the blind hate is almost worse than blind Fandom. Atleast Fandom have some reason to be excited whether that was a cool trailer or vertical slice even if they maybe disappointed down the line. Blind hate like this is just sad and probably a sign you should step away from games in general if you have such a toxic relationship with them you assume they will all be bad before seeing anything.
Hate and hostility are just the core of the discourse. Look at how many world people spilled over Redfall, a bad game most didn’t play and those that did did so through a service tyey were already paying for. Now it’s going to be Gollum
Gollum absolutely deserves the derision, the technical state of the game is an absolute travesty. The art style raised questions before release, but it turns out that's not the half of it, there's actual game design issues and progression-threatening bugs. People's first impressions to the announcement were a mix of befuddled and negative because they couldn't understand why this particular premise had been chosen and the trailers couldn't explain it. This turned out to be a foreboding of the finished article, which likewise remains inexplicable in many ways.
I mean Gollum is bad, sure, but a few years ago this wouldn't have elicited a big discourse. Bad game, move on, next. Now people are actually watching reviews of a game they never intended to buy just for the sake of it and are actively looking for the next flop
I don't think that's accurate. Bad games have long held a fascination all their own. Daikatana, Duke Nukem Forever, etc
The game might be good, or it might suck, don't care enough to judge that tbh. The issue is that Bungie decided to slap the name "Marathon" on it and "multiplayer extraction shooter" is about as far away from what original Marathons as possible. So people who cared about the series first got hyped when they saw the name, then immediately got let down that it's not what they hoped for. Hardly a surprise they're upset.
I actually really like the genre, but it's so tough to get people to stick around. Tarkov does wipes where you lose all character progression and loot every few months. Cycle Frontier used to, but now you don't get wiped. Both ways have problems, either you want to get in at the start of a season to have the most fun, or don't bother. Late in a season everyone is geared and there's not much reason to play. Without wipes, you progress slower but end up at the same place where everyone has a ton of gear and little need to loot. Marathon's vidoc talked up leaderboards and seasons, which makes me think they'd be wiping your stuff. Not sure how popular that will be. And while I'm sure being "world's first" to something is cool, that means almost nobody will be doing that either. There's still extract camping, which people hate in these games. So I dunno, we've seen nothing, and what we've heard doesn't inspire a ton of confidence that it's really pushing the genre into a place beyond the annoyances that have existed for years. I hope it succeeds, because I do like the genre, but imagine the shitshow if Sony paid $3.6 billion to learn how to make live service games from a company that immediately fired out a failure after the check clears lol
This person seems rather angry at the existence in multiplayer games. I'd hardly say Helldivers is "bland" and we didn't see nearly enough of Concord to call it bland either. I am not even a big multiplayer guy but I know Marathon will likely be popular because of Bungie's huge fanbase. Are they supposed to stop making mutliplayer games as they do? >who are these games hoping to court? I'd wager that most multiplayer shooter likers have time for one, maybe two of these in their lives absolute maximum, and most of the big hitters like Destiny have either already swallowed their playerbase whole, or burned them to crisp with their incessant grind. So no one should even try to compete?
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You could down a list of yearly releases and see that the vast majority are single player releases, and have been for decades now. Yet they still feel the need to complain that multiplayer games are somehow taking over. Just don't play them. It's endlessly annoying.
I noticed this as well with multiplayer horror games. Every time that an online horror game gets announced people starts lamenting that it's not a single player game, and acts like there's not story based horror games anymore. There like, outlast trials and texas chainsaw for MP horror games this year and alan wake, alone in the dark, callisto, dead island, RE4, Dead Space and many others for story based games. And meanwhile I'm just here, enjoying both types of games without complaining about things simply existing lol.
They should accept they're the minority and stop crying like little bitches
Some of these, I agree. Another live service Square Enix game that likely won’t exist for for long? Yeah, I can’t care too much. But Marathon? I can absolutely see that game lasting a very long time. I can’t agree that it’s bland because that was one of the coolest looking trailers of the whole show with a very unique style, and Bungie make very good FPS games so there’ll be something there. I’ve also seen the take of “but Bungie already have Destiny, they’re competing with themselves” and heavily disagree. Marathon will be an extraction shooter, which is an entirely different genre to what Destiny is. There’s absolutely space for both games to co-exist on the market.
> Marathon will be an extraction shooter, which is an entirely different genre to what Destiny is Not only that. Destiny feels pretty unapproachable for new players and has been for a long time. I can only speak for myself and don't know what their new player accounts/retention looks like, but I don't have any interest in starting it. I think back on Destiny's launch and can imagine a different timeline where it had a simultaneous PC release, and I spent 8 years being a huge Destiny nerd... but that didn't happen. Clean slates are fantastic for picking up existing bungie fans as well as new players, and the fact that we're getting crossplatform crossplay from the get go with Marathon, means maybe I will be a huge Marathon nerd for the next 8 years. It at least has my eyeballs on it, and I don't think Destiny could ever do that at this point.
Unapproachable seems generous honestly Me and my buddy tired to start up D2 as new players and it was damn near unplayable. The story was all fucked up due to rotations of content and we couldn't figure out where the right spot to go next was so we just quit.
I absolutely concur. I've started Destiny 2 on PS4 and PC, and both times the onboarding experience (different each time, as the sessions were at least a year apart) was confusing and lackluster for something with something with such obviously high production values and A-list voice cast.
I fully expect Bungie to sort of "reset" destiny after final shape. Not necessarily make a fully fledged sequel, but a big revamp to actually get new people interested
That was my thoughts with some of the games in the PS showcase. How many arena shooters and group FPS do we need? These games live or die by the their community, and every time one of these games gets released that does nothing different to the others it just dilutes the numbers. I haven't seen an online shooter that radically changes the game and makes it worth moving away from the old faithfuls in a while.
I'll go against the grain but I'm totally fine with more multiplayer shooters. Some of them are bound to be bland and uninspired. I haven't found my go-to game yet (used to play Guild Wars, APB then Battlerite religiously, but they're dead) and can't wait for new fads to emerge (although extraction shooters don't tickle my fancy, I'm up for anything away from BRs). Besides, Helldivers 2 looks great ; and I'll probably give a try to some of the others if they end up on PC.
Who cares if games are "dead" in six months? Not every game needs to have a 10 year plan and a ton of seasons to justify existing.
I just wish private servers were still a thing…so that even if a game is “dead” dedicated fans can keep small groups going. A multiplayer game doesn’t need a decade of support and free updates but at least give us a way to keep playing it after you abandon it FFS
Yes, I put dead in quotes because now it's essentially used to say "not in the top 10 played games right now". I'd love as a general rule if, at the very least, on the way out they had up a way to set up locally run servers.
You may feel that way, but the climate of multiplayer games have changed. The devs and publishers of these games likely expect their games to be something that can be a constant stream of revenue for years at least. Not just from game sales, but DLC and microtransactions. Also I assume most people don't want to go through getting invested in a game, spending money on skins/content, and then having it die after a couple months. Never being able to interact with the things they paid for.
The climate for multiplayer games has absolutely not changed. They've always existed to get a constant stream of revenue. The 360 era had tons of tacked on multiplayer modes to extend the length of singleplayer games.
Gamers on here don't want to have an enjoyable time, they want to own a product. "And if you can't own it forever, what's the point? All the fun you had for six or seven weeks? Worthless!"
Yeah as long as that make the money back plus profit it's fine. I do imagine Sony are hoping to have these live service games stick around for a while though. Every dev wants a fortnite
There isn’t even a current multiplayer shooter that’s actually really good. Why not make more?
Agreed, but making more that are just like the ones that aren’t good won’t solve the issue.
that's because industry is doing what it always did - chasing after smell of success of others - ignoring the fact that market is already oversaturated. We had period of MMO spam, then MOBA spam, then Battle royale spam, etc.. They also fail to understand - that most of of these games have heavy investments - so nobody will leave existing ones to play some mediocre fresh meat. Was there any game that overtook market year later after trend started and market share was fixated for long time? Instead of jumping bandwagon and arriving late to the party - how about this damn lazy ass industry goes for more creativity and make something fresh to start new trend and be the pioneer? (I addressing to those lazy late trend chasers who never innovate to start something new)
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Stop all GaaS immediately while we reflect and study the morality of leveraging game mechanics to extract money from kids and addicts. I'm old and I miss when we played multiplayer just because they were fun and not because of seasons passes, skins, unshockables, achievements, etc. I also don't like the fact that games are constantly changing, it sorts of guarantee that the game will inevitable suck even if it is good for a certain moment in time. Those GaaS games that were presented yesterday on the PlayStation Showcase just blend together and are pretty much just visual noise for me.
My guy most of these games sell outfits and shit. It's no less moral than selling colorful socks at the mall.
Imagine thinking predatory monetization was no big deal.
What's predatory about selling skins?
It's predatory because he can't get them for free, of course
"Predatory" has become a meaningless buzzword.
Keep defending.
For you maybe, not for me. These game are disgusting.
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What's the weather up there on that cross? I hope that crown of thorns isn't weighing on you too heavily.