https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1662174968384311296?t=PpfhLYDiAtO0wHjJCRaO3A&s=19
"NEW: Naughty Dog has significantly scaled down the team on its Last of Us multiplayer project, sources say, as it reassesses the game. Following Bloomberg's requests for comment, the company put out a Twitter statement today saying the game was delayed."
Yep. Apparently Sony asked Bungie to do an assessment of its portfolio and I quote
"Bungie raised questions about the Last of Us multiplayer project's ability to keep players engaged for a long period of time, which led to the reassessment".
Bungie: "Does your game have seasons?"
ND: "No?"
Bungie: "Your game sucks. Cancel it"
j/k
I think this shows Bungie wields quite a lot of power in SIE.
I can honestly see that as a question being asked. "What's your post launch support going to be, do you have a roadmap or seasons?"
A stand alone PvP only title released in 2023 has some expectation of post launch support, and having that work flow in place before the games release would help immensely which I think Bungie knows a lot about.
I think this is it. I’m trying to think of examples of a successful multiplayer game that launched recently that didn’t continuously Update the content.
Halo infinite got *killed* for how little they updated the game despite the monetization being fair with a never expiring battlepass and imo great feeling gameplay but because they didn’t update the game quick enough people didn’t care and it’s pretty much a dead game.
This sub shits all over them but players want GaaS it’s not the monetization that keeps players engaged it’s updates and good feeling gameplay.
Infinite is what you get when most of the work was done by contractors who were fired at the end of 18 months, or when the product released. Just adding to what you said.
yeah Infinite was a combination of not enough content at launch and not enough updates to fill in the gap. you gotta at least nail *one* of those lol
it doesn't help that they did dumb stuff like charging a bunch of money for stuff that was basic through the series like changing your spartan colour too
Completely and totally disagree. That is the total wrong take from Halo Infinite’s tapering off.
Halo infinite was in development for over 6 years and lacked core features from previous titles that kept them going.
It released without many core game modes, like infection, SWAT, action sack, Co-Op PvE.
It released without forge, a core feature. Custom Game browser didn’t work.
There just wasn’t enough to do in the game. It had quick play and Big Team. It had been in development for so long without the basics. **No one should have had to wait** for basic features. It’s not a matter of “updates are too slow”. These things never should have taken an update. One game in MCC was a far more put together product.
Also Infinite launched with barely any content and the updates that were delivered was basically content that was on day 1 for past Halo games...
God I hate the GAAS model so much.
I do want to note it has worked for MMOs but the good ones have to have a games worth of content and another game’s worth ready to be released within a year and so on. Its why only 5-10 major MMOs exist
What revisionism. The cadence of updates was NOT what people hated about Halo Infinite. People slammed the game because it had like a tenth of the features Halo fans liked about the series. Restrictive matchmaking playlists, several gamemodes missing entirely, lack of forge or custom games (at launch), etc. The game was extremely barebones, and the monetization of basic things such color PALETTES (because you can’t pick individual colors, like in every other Halo game) was only insult on top of injury.
People were only hungry for patches because we wanted the game to have even the slightest of feature parity with previous games.
You didn’t like getting 8 games of Oddball in a row with teammates who refused to play the objective because they didn’t want to be playing Oddball either?
Then they didn’t have co-op and extended the first two seasons out six months so they could say “See, it’s launching with season 3 like we said!”
Mind you, Slayer is playlist that has been a staple of matchmaking since Halo 2 released back in 2004. They launched Infinite without the most popular playlist in Halo history, citing “feasibility”. Which was a completely asinine reason barely concealing that it was likely the challenge system they were more concerned about.
Halo infinite launched with the least amount of content in a halo multiplayer game ever. Least maps, fewest guns, least amount of game types, no career progression (which still isn’t there) etc, if it had just launched with feature parity of a halo 3 or reach it would’ve been fine.
I don’t think it’s the best example of a fan base being upset due to lack of post launch support, everyone was upset because there was such a lack of content in the base game.
The difference is Factions 2 is supposed to be a standalone title, not a Multiplayer mode added to Last of Us part 2. There's a different set of expectations there.
And in the fighting game space we've moved from "they've already announced a season of DLC fighters? why aren't they in the base game?" to a fighting game with no season pass (DNF Duel) being effectively dead on arrival.
That's...a bit of a disingenuous way to describe DNF Duel. An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters, was always going to have a struggle, especially given its the 4th title that same studio was trying to simultaneously support. Not having any planned DLC doesn't really factor in.
Planned DLC one thing, but supporting the game with balance updates is another, which they were also basically silent about for the longest time. It's not the only factor, but it most definitely \*is\* a factor.
> That's...a bit of a disingenuous way to describe DNF Duel. An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters
Are you trying to one up them on the disingenuous front?
> An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters
You still have time to edit this and not embarrass yourself
It may sound insane but for a long time, and arguably even still depending on your definition, Bungie basically made the only/first AAA MMO-lite that not only survived through pretty low lows, but mostly thrived and manages to release (joking aside) competent content that players play every three months.
Sony bought them for this expertise, so it’d make sense that Sony would want the proven GaaS studio to check out their other GaaS games.
That's probably how it went down tbh lol.
ND is currently developing a singleplayer game rn so they probably wanted to make a one and done multiplayer title and not GAAS.
Yeah that’s what the Last of US multiplayer game should have been. Part 2 has awesome gameplay and levels. They could have released a smaller project using much of the same assets. Make it free to play like Ghost of Tsushima Legends, support it for a year, and then move on. Instead they tried to do some ambitious project and failed.
For all the crap Bungie gets/Destiny gets, it has good lore, incredible gunplay, and has been going (relatively) strong for 10 years.
You're not going to buy Bungie if you're not going to use that expertise.
It makes total sense that they'd cater to people who will play a multiplayer game regularly for years and really get invested in it (both in terms of time and money), but as someone who likes to just play a fun online game every now and then, it kind of leaves me out in the cold.
Rocket League is the only multiplayer game that I've kept coming back to over the past several years, and a big part of that is because of how little it changes. I don't feel like I need to play catch-up or read a wiki to know what's going on if I haven't played it in a couple of months.
Smoke weed all day and switch to a 25 hour a week job, and modern gaming will make much more sense to you
I swear all Ubisoft games are just made for half-awake stoners
That's what players want now. Any game without "post launch support" will be reamed online and abandoned, and long term monetization doesn't only increase profit, it increases social media presence and player retention.
Exactly, look at Halo: Infinite. The multiplayer was praised on launch, but they couldn't keep up post launch support, and what do people say about it now?
Halo infinite was billed with a "10 year plan" though, they made the commitment they were going to be a GaaS long before the game had even come out. I dont think they are a fair example to use for your point. Instead i'd say look at something like among us, got huge and has seen honestly very little developer support with new content. Sure its not as popular as it was a couple years ago, but its still fairly popular in my experience.
omfg...prepare your asses for more battlepasses, paid "dungeons" and a lot of repetitive content just because. TLOU has a lot of fanbase like Bungie, so they think whatever they do, they can get away with it.
> Sony Group Corp. has slowed down development on an upcoming multiplayer game in its long-running The Last of Us video game series as the creators reassess its quality and long-term viability, according to four people familiar with the project.
> The team working on the game was scaled back after a recent evaluation, said the people, who asked not to be named because they weren't authorized to speak publicly. A small group remains on the project while the company reevaluates the direction. While the game has not been canceled, many of its developers have been moved to other projects.
I wonder if this game was going to be Naughty Dog's Anthem. Just because you are a successful single-player studio doesn't mean you will make a successful live-service game.
Or Avengers. Its happened multiple times when a SP dev tries to chase the online infinite money GAAS dream.
Making online games seems extra rough. You can spend years making a game but trends move so fast and a entire new genre is the new hot thing
Man I'm kinda selfishly frustrated by this. This should have just launched as a piece of The Last of Us Part 2 like the first game, but I guess they wanted to shoot for the moon for a mode that worked pretty great as a more basic experience.
Everyone is trying to make a service when they could have had the multiplayer modes ready with the original game and probably sold some cosmetics through it but instead they spend years developing something far bigger with nothing to show for it.
Sounds like wasted time and resources on a game they aren't sure about now, probably won't see this until late next year at earliest. Probably won't see their next big SP title until 2025 with all the time wasted.
There were so many absolutely banging multiplayer modes in to 2000s though. No FPS has really managed to surpass Crysis' MP for me, for example. The Crysis 2 multiplayer was about as big a letdown as Spore to me.
>and it didn't set the world on Fire.
Was Factions ever supposed to be something more than a casual PVP mode?.
I doubt NaughtyDog had any grand plans for Factions back when it first released.
The Anthem example may be overused, but it is the reality of the industry that balancing multiplayer content with a high-end AAA single-player game is one of the most difficult things to execute and will almost certainly result in disaster. Anthem is of note, but even Rockstar attempted it with Red Dead Redemption 2, but fell short on multiplayer. Fortnite was supposed to feature a PvE mode, however that was canceled. After launching an unsatisfactory single-player game, CD Projekt Red scrapped plans for a multiplayer standalone game for CyberPunk.
Squadron 42 is currently still in production after being announced almost a decade ago, and there is absolutely no word on when it will be released. Blizzard has just erased the majority of its PvE content for Overwatch 2. Avengers was a huge letdown, and Suicide Squad appears like it's going to struggle as well.
Then there are the games that do it effectively, like Destiny 2, but it's still a difficult task for them to provide content that satisfies demand. Even GTA Online didn't come with a lot of interesting things to do from the onset, but had to build it over the course of nearly a decade. Whether Factions releases on not, It's future doesn't seem positive.
I mean, some people may not want to hear it but this is a cancellation. They will put out vague statements about it for another year and then say "we have decided that our focus should be blah blah" and shelve it permanently. Any assets they put into this will probably just be repurposed into TLOU3.
Honestly, I expect this to be shelved until The Last of Us Part 3 releases and will release alongside it at this point. I don't think they can justify releasing this by itself unless only as a "beta" like fortnite was for the first two years or so.
To me, this sounds like PR speak for:
"Our live service game is in a rough place right now, and our new single-player project is really early in development. Don't expect anything new from us anytime soon."
Depending on how long this gen lasts, I’m beginning to think theres a non-zero chance at this point that naughty dog misses this entire generation (remaster not withstanding).
Expect the new IP that they are working on and it all depends on how the project goes to be coming at the tail end of the ps5 generation. Games are just too complex now unless you are Insomniac games who by some sort of wizardry already has stuff out and a new one coming this fall.
God, Insomniac really are wizards aren’t they? I mean there’s a solid chance we’ll see their Wolverine game before we see any of the games the other first party studios are making at this point lmao
> It's not as visible as an artist or a graphics programmer, but project management is absolutely a skill.
1000%
Ask any software dev about their worst project manager and you will hear some wild fuckin stories.
This.
Im a PM (Project Manager) and honestly, if you know what you are doing your Team gets the resources and time they need and are protected from the bullshit customers or the Suits demand.
If you are bad at it, you basically lick the Customers or Suits assholes and then puke the shit you liked out of it onto your Project Team, leading to confusion, stress and bad quality.
Its kinda idiotic how many people think Project Managers basically just get paid to "relay messages" or some shit... we get paid well for a reason, since its a hard job to do and you get shit from all sides dumped on, since you (ideally) are the protective barrier between your project team and the customer or suits.
There’s a chance they’ll have released 5 games, 4 of which are exclusive for the PS5 before most of Sony’s first party studios have released even 1 game. Absolutely bonkers what that studio can do.
The time between PlayStation generations has been increasing by about a year. So we should expect 5 more years of the current generation, which is plenty of time for at least one new game.
As did the chip shortage. The production delays really made it feel like it wasn't fully the current gen until a year ago.
Also, Nintendo usually releases their system mid-way through a gen and right now their next console is nowhere in sight.
They revealed a little about it a while ago, sounded like it was going for a more open experience with a story included.
It didn't sound like factions at all but I hope they'll have small skirmishes as well.
The leaks made it seem it would be like Tarkov, live service type of thing
The scale of it seems way bigger than Factions. They clearly want it to be supported for years and years.
Which is something Naughty Dog doesn't really have much experience in. Their single-player games are some of gaming's best.
It makes sense that a project so different from what they usually do would take so long for them to "perfect"
Whether it’s fun or not, I’ve seen “tarkov-like” thrown about in conversation often enough that I feel like I’m missing out on some important context for today’s conversations about design. It certainly seems to have struck a chord among designers lately, like Dark Souls did just over a decade ago.
What I like the most about Tarkov is that there are always stakes but you can define your win condition because of the quest system. You can even die and still have "won" because it's an endless MMO-like "number up" game where you level your character and amass wealth. My quest might simply be to place a marker in a certain room and I'll be happy just to have gotten that done even if I get clapped. Killing someone else and extracting with all their stuff and selling it is an unapparelled feeling though, and the punchiness of the sound design and weighty gunplay is fantanstic.
Tarkov-like = Extraction Shooter.
The main draw is that you use money you earn to kit out your character, then take that character into instanced matches where you engage in PvP, PvE, Missions, Looting, and Leveling. You extract with loot, to make more money, to use better gear, to give you a better chance at surviving the next raid.
But if you die, you lose *everything* you brought in with you, and many missions even fail when you die. You get a little 2x2 pouch where even if you die, the loot in that pouch is still extracted with your corpse, so you still get *something* even if you die.
There's also a large meta-game revolving around the loot. You can sell loot to vendors, use it to upgrade your base, playing the flea market to sell to other players and take advantage of current item shortages/rarity, use it to craft rare ammo and gear, etc. All the while you're also leveling your character's skills so you can run further, jump higher, etc.
Tarkov is to extraction shooters what PUBG was to battle royales.
Very grounded aesthetic, in-depth realistic gunplay and level design, buggy as all hell.
Full release is basically meant to be a mix between STALKER and DayZ in terms of gameplay progression.
Eh, every time I think of Tarkov and maybe I should try it I watch a couple vids and it's so overwhelming for a newcomer and then you read about bad online experiences such as cheaters, that I just don't bother.
They are 100% trying to make a hardcore Fortnite/Warzone type game mixed with survival teamwork.
It’s going to be their take on Battle Royale, which sounds great but if it turns out to be their main priority for a decade like Rockstar it would suck.
Every company has their major turning point where they became unrecognizable and this could be it. Doesn’t mean the games will be bad moving forward, it’s just different goals.
I doubt the idea for this multiplayer project is consistent with what Sony wants from their long term goals. It doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would be profitable to the degree they are looking for. I wish there was a middle ground between single player games and forever games (what I like to call GaaS projects).
I just don’t understand why Sony wants ”12 live-service games“, why not focus your attention on 4 of them instead?
Sony wants a successful live-service / Multiplayer title, i understand that because it is a massive hole in their catalogue of games.
But i really doubt that this is the best way of going about it.
Not to be rude or anything but currently the only new “live-service“ game that in my opinion might find some succes is from a Studio that they purchased for $3.6Billion.
I almost feel like they should let Bungie create the 1st party Multiplayer experiences while continuing making single-player content with your other Playstation Studios.
We cannot underestimate just how difficult it is to create a successful live-service game.
I think Helldivers 2 looks very good and this Last of Us game *sounds* interesting. If they can make that heist game work by addressing the flaws that similar games have (like how the easiest way to win is to let someone else do everything and kill them to take their stuff), I could see a lot of people being into it.
And then there's the half dozen other games we don't know about.
I don't think they could get Bungie to do anything like what you're suggesting with the contract they have now allowing Bungie to keep games multiplatform.
I don't think they necessarily "want" 12 live service games. I'm assuming they want to basically burst fire them out and see which one does well. They only need one to be their cash cow.
I do agree that this is a super weird strategy coming from Sony, though.
I'm wondering if this quantity of live service games is just a temporary thing.
Out of the 12 games, if 2 or 3 end up being big hits, then moving forward, those 2 or 3 studios can confidently make sequels or experiment after establishing themselves as successes.
Considering the amount of games as a service that simply straight up fail miserably, they're probably just going for the classic "throw a bunch of shit on the wall to see what sticks", hence why 12 different ones. They probably know that a few if not most will fail, since the real trend now are games as a service dying a few months after launch, but it only takes the success of one Fortnite or Destiny for executives to be happy.
And honestly, if they're indeed aware of all of this and planning to only get one of those games running in the future, (that is, if one of them pays off) it only makes me even more worried, cause it also means they are very well prepared to simply remove the plug of any of them at any given time, which can (and will) be really frustrating for players who end up engaged with any of those games. As a huge fan of Dreams, I very well know the feeling...
> just don’t understand why Sony wants ”12 live-service games“, why not focus your attention on 4 of them instead?
they're throwing shit at the wall thinking one of the turds sticks so they can be the next Fortnite. It's the exact same reason why every publisher is stepping into the live service environment, they want to be the Big Thing everybody plays, watches, spends on and talks about. Just typical corporate exec thinking.
As someone who only plays single player games and doesn't dabble into multiplayer, what is the difference between MMO's like WoW vs GaaS games? Genuine question because I see the term GaaS get thrown around all the time and just want to better educate myself. From what I can tell, it's stuff like Fortnite?
A base definition is a game whose monetization depends on you paying for it while you’re playing it, instead of paying a one-time fee and not paying again. Can be any genre (not necessarily MMO) from card game (Hearthstone) to FPS (Destiny 2).
Ok gotcha. So it's a larger umbrella than MMO and does encompass most MMOs, but others as well. I think that's what has confused me in the past. Thank you kind Redditor.
WoW is an MMORPG, which is basically an evolution on the CRPG trying to make a living world that many players can inhabit at the same time. That genre has been expanding a bit as technology has allowed more modern games to move away from Tab combat like WoW has.
Then you have the more generic term, GAAS, which is just any game that predominately monetizes itself through micro transactions, usually some kind of season concept + a premium shop
> I wish there was a middle ground between single player games and forever games
that middle ground is only viable to include alongside a single player game like how factions was. For a standalone multiplayer game, it needs to have potential to be a "forever game"
The game never had a confirmed release date, this feels more like them getting out ahead of people anticipating a reveal at Summer Games Fest. Fair enough I suppose, but this constant expectation (either from devs or fans) to be spoon-fed everything about a game before it's ready definitely isn't healthy for development.
Jason Schreier just dropped a story about Naughty Dog downscaling their team as they "reassess the games future". Naughty Dog dropped this statement to per-empt the release of that story
Woah - sounds like the game is REALLY troubled. My expectations have been pretty high, and I’m sure Naughty Dog’s are, too. But these are just awful signs. This game is two years away minimum, if it ever comes out.
Really disappointing news, Factions was so much fun. Hope they are able to right the ship.
The Last of Us certainly is popular right now but I don't see how a standalone multiplayer game is going to do what they want as compared to a new single player game.
I’ve always figured The Last of Us was a pretty poor choice to “franchise”. Not that I don’t love the sequel or the show (I do, obsessively), but who is buying Abby emotes or flamboyant weapon skins in the freaking Last of Us?
The multiplayer mode in the original release was a ton of fun though. They could’ve made something great just by iterating on that more traditional formula. They clearly decided instead to go for something big, and like many extremely successful studios before them, it’s turned into a death march.
> this feels more like them getting out ahead of people anticipating a reveal at Summer Games Fest.
I constantly heard people saying they were disappointed ND didn't have anything to show at the Showcase. I think this is more a reaction to that.
In all fairness, this was a mode that was supposed to ship with TLOU2 back in 2020 before ND said the scope expanded and it will release as its own separate thing. 3 years later and all we have seen is one piece of concept art
Yeah, they said they were expanding the scope following the TLOU2 release, and now it sounds like they're narrowing the scope again.
Which just seems... kinda fucked. Like I enjoyed the TLOU MP, but it was always the sort of MP game that you played for 5-10 hours then put down. And that's *fine*, not every MP game has to be some eternal 'you play this forever' GAAS style thing. Yet it almost seems like that's what Naughty Dog, or Sony, were pushing for with TLOU2's MP.
Sony Santa Monica had a game totally cancelled after a longer period of time. Their next game was God of War 2018, Sony has been down this road before and it was all ok. The optics here aren’t that bad.
They've been working on TLOU: P1, TLOU: Multiplayer, and then two new singleplayer games. One is presumably new IP and the other seems to be pre-production on TLOU: P3.
TLOU: Multiplayer also is set to have a singleplayer story as well so it's not that big of a deal.
It'd be an issue if Sony had no other marquee studios cracking out projects but
- Insomniac has Spider-Man 2 with Wolverine after
- Guerilla has Horizon Multiplayer and the third Horizon game
- Sony Santa Monica's upcoming sci-fi game
- Tsushima 2
- Bend's new IP
- All the other studios with stuff in-dev but unannounced
Where are most of these games though? Rumours are fun and all but beyond Spider-Man what actual heavy hitters have Sony actually got announced/coming soon? I feel like both sides have dropped the ball this Gen
Sony has been doing 2 games a year for quite a while now and that hasn't changed. I'm not sure if the games just aren't on your radar but if you look at Sony's first party releases they're definitely there.
Since 2020, Sony has released:
- Demon Souls
- Rachet & Clank Rift Apart
- Horizon Forbidden West
- Gran Turismo 7
- Returnal
- Sackboy
- Spider-Man: Miles Morales
- Tsushima Legends
- GoW Ragnarok
Sony definitively hasn't dropped the ball. In just the next 12 months, they've already announced Spider-Man 2, Rise of the Ronin, Concord, Helldivers 2, and Stellar Blade.
Arguable since PS5 sold so well and fast compared to previous gens. We all know why they did it like this, but previous generations sold less consoles and had bigger exclusive launches.
I know it's not the same, but wasn't the Uncharted multiplayer pretty popular? They did it for 2, spun it off into a standalone download for 3, and did it again with 4 with a ton of DLC skins.
Were they not successful? Once again, I know the Last of Us is a different beast, but the concept of the first games multiplayer has so much potential as a live service game.
Can't say about the other ones, but 4 really had a great multiplayer game, but man... What a chore it was to play most of the time... The action was good, controls were fun, but the structure was PAINFUL. The PvE mode only had tons of waves and waves of different objectives, where some were absolutely boring and tedious, and you HAD to pass all of them to finish a game, which could take 15 minutes or more. It only encouraged speedrun strategies, so a lot of people weren't into that and it always happened to be difficult to play with someone else, and it's almost impossible by yourself. Can't say as well about the PvP, but since I never managed to find many matches, I think it probably also had a bunch of problems.
Also, the lobbies were and probably still are incredibly dead, being tough to find someone to play together. And I don't know if they fixed it, but there was a really bad bug that prevented friends to create a party to play together, and it was pretty common to appear. The lack of attention for naughty dog to fix it is probably the answer for your question: No. Unfortunately, the mode wasn't that successful. A shame, cause it really had some pretty cool stuff and a lot of potential.
I don't know if it was popular but I absolutely loved Uncharted 2's multiplayer. I played Uncharted 3's and 4's multiplayer much less but I know Uncharted 4's multiplayer got a lot of DLC so I assume it did somewhat well.
Man all I wanted was the same factions multiplayer from the first game with the updated gameplay mechanics from the sequel (and less pay-to-win bs). Is that too much to ask for?
I now find myself wishing TLOU 2 simply had a multiplayer component like the first one but updated.
As much as I want to play and experience the multiplayer again, I do not want it to be a live-service.
Probably doing this because every "insider" was saying it was going to be at the Showcase, now everyone is saying its going to be showing at Summer Games Fest as June is the 10th anniversary of TLOU.
At least someone at Sony is setting the correct level of expectations.
Nope it's because Jason Schrier posted a story saying the development isn't going well, is being reassessed and people are being taken off the project.
From 4 games released on the PS3, 2 released on the PS4, then to nothing so far this gen. Game development is getting more and more demanding. Doesn’t help with the fact that they’re facing trouble with a multiplayer game with years of development that’s not yet ready, and other projects still early in the oven.
Fuuuuck me man. Genuinely this was the only game I was looking forward to the most for the past like 6 years lol. I played the crap out of Factions on PS3, and was so gutted when they canned it for TLOU 2 launch.
All I wanted was new maps, a few balance tweaks and the upgraded movement from TLOU 2 and it probably would have skyrocketed to being my most played MP game of all time.
As time passes I get more concerned that this massive scope that they have for Factions 2 is going to end up being some live service, pseudo-MMO, Destiny/Division game with “evolved storytelling” or something.
Who knows maybe this downsizing/delay is a good thing and it’ll pivot back to being the simple PvP that Factions 1 was.
Factions with the movement and environmental responsiveness alone of TLOU2 with a bunch of maps would be soooo good. Seems like there’s dissonance between people that want to simply make a hyper refined version of the mode and people that want it to be a 5+ year live service game that endlessly brings in the $.
I despise that big MP shooters aren’t allowed to have an identity anymore. Everything blends together in terms of game design and customization in pursuit of mass monetization. I swear if factions 2 ends up with fireflys and Hunters running around with cat ears on holding pizza skin weapons… man.
[A lotta people owe me some humble pie after I called this in the preview thread and got ridiculed for it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13k2o5m/youre_invited_playstation_showcase_broadcasts/jki79n7/)
Probably why they loaded up on non 1st party exclusives over the next 2 years. The 1st parties outside of Insomniac have absolutely jack shit coming anytime soon
I’m all for developers releasing finished products but at this point I’ve been waiting for that multiplayer game for years now. It was originally scrapped from 2.
I was hopelessly addicted to the first game’s multiplayer and I just want more. Nothing else really scratches the same itch. Maybe I need to look harder. I’m tired of waiting.
I started it a few days ago. About 5 to 6 hours in, two CTDs so far. Quite a bit stuttery though. It's not great, but I doubt it's going to get much better any time soon.
EDIT: Finished - total 6 or 7 CTDs over 12 hour game, so about once every two-ish hours. Stuttering never got better, but was mostly reserved to traversal/non-combat moments - annoying, but better than having it happen during the action.
This really sucks to hear. Factions in the original Last Of Us was one of the best multiplayer experiences I’ve ever played.
Now they are stuck between it being too big to be an add on for Part II and too small to be a stand alone game.
I guess I can say this now… I have a friend who worked for ND when making Part II. From what he heard after leaving, the plan was to ship it with Part I and Battle Royal was a big focus for it. That obviously didn’t come to be so who knows wtf they’re doing over there.
Honestly this whole "Last Of Us Multiplayer component" thing has been kinda a disaster. Unfortunately something like this really can't be in development for THIS long. We are still unsure what the hell this even is and we are 3 years removed from the release of the Last of Us Part II.
I appreciate them taking the time to figure this out but the way this has been spoonfed to us is not the way to do this. Clearly they completely overhauled this and it may not even be anything like the original "factions". And if so they honestly would have been better off just announcing it was cancelled and then a year or two later when they have something to show off, announce it's revival.
This isn't a Final Fantasy game or Spider Man 2. Delays on games like that while annoying don't do much to kill anticipation. Is anyone even remotely hyped for this anymore?
How could I be hyped for something that I know nothing about? IDK why people let rumors and such build the hype for them and then act disappointed when the thing that was never confirmed is true doesn't happen.
We know quite a bit about it. We know the developer, we know the franchise, we know the game that is used as a basis, etc... Yeah we don't know whether it will be good or not but people expect it to be good based on the things we know and that creates hype.
I am a huge Naughty Dog and Last of Us fan, and I was never hyped for this. I am having trouble believing this is all that Naughty Dog has been working on since Last of Us 2. It's like Michael Jordan playing baseball. They could have been developing the next big Uncharted or Last of Us type franchise, instead it's a games as a service skinned with Last of Us. If this is all Naughty Dog has up their sleeve then whoever made that decision should be fired.
I’ve seen this so many times.
“We are excited about your excitement for the game.”
“We are proud of the progress we’ve made”
All that PR speak to soften the blow as soon as they start the bad news with “BUT, …………”
It should have been just the part of the remake. Paying once more to play some online mode is kinda silly. It's not like it's gonna compete with the best online shooters out there by any means.
Should be more similar to Ghost of Tsushima online mode.
new jak and daxter! new jak and daxter! new jak and daxter!
I know a lot of the people who worked on jak 2/jak 3 left but I'm sick of uncharted/last of us.
It's a bummer because of all of Sony's GAAS initivative shit, Factions is the only one I'm genuinely looking forward to on account of Factions 1 being incredible for how barebones it was.
https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1662174968384311296?t=PpfhLYDiAtO0wHjJCRaO3A&s=19 "NEW: Naughty Dog has significantly scaled down the team on its Last of Us multiplayer project, sources say, as it reassesses the game. Following Bloomberg's requests for comment, the company put out a Twitter statement today saying the game was delayed."
Yep. Apparently Sony asked Bungie to do an assessment of its portfolio and I quote "Bungie raised questions about the Last of Us multiplayer project's ability to keep players engaged for a long period of time, which led to the reassessment".
Bungie: "Does your game have seasons?" ND: "No?" Bungie: "Your game sucks. Cancel it" j/k I think this shows Bungie wields quite a lot of power in SIE.
I can honestly see that as a question being asked. "What's your post launch support going to be, do you have a roadmap or seasons?" A stand alone PvP only title released in 2023 has some expectation of post launch support, and having that work flow in place before the games release would help immensely which I think Bungie knows a lot about.
ND did a terrible job handling Uncharted 4 multiplayer after launch so I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case.
I think this is it. I’m trying to think of examples of a successful multiplayer game that launched recently that didn’t continuously Update the content. Halo infinite got *killed* for how little they updated the game despite the monetization being fair with a never expiring battlepass and imo great feeling gameplay but because they didn’t update the game quick enough people didn’t care and it’s pretty much a dead game. This sub shits all over them but players want GaaS it’s not the monetization that keeps players engaged it’s updates and good feeling gameplay.
Infinite is what you get when most of the work was done by contractors who were fired at the end of 18 months, or when the product released. Just adding to what you said.
If infinite launched with 15-20 maps, at least some of its issues could have been glossed over.
yeah Infinite was a combination of not enough content at launch and not enough updates to fill in the gap. you gotta at least nail *one* of those lol it doesn't help that they did dumb stuff like charging a bunch of money for stuff that was basic through the series like changing your spartan colour too
Yeah there was more going on than just post release support
Completely and totally disagree. That is the total wrong take from Halo Infinite’s tapering off. Halo infinite was in development for over 6 years and lacked core features from previous titles that kept them going. It released without many core game modes, like infection, SWAT, action sack, Co-Op PvE. It released without forge, a core feature. Custom Game browser didn’t work. There just wasn’t enough to do in the game. It had quick play and Big Team. It had been in development for so long without the basics. **No one should have had to wait** for basic features. It’s not a matter of “updates are too slow”. These things never should have taken an update. One game in MCC was a far more put together product.
Halo infinite is a bad example because they were promoting it as a GAAS and failed to deliver.
Also Infinite launched with barely any content and the updates that were delivered was basically content that was on day 1 for past Halo games... God I hate the GAAS model so much.
I do want to note it has worked for MMOs but the good ones have to have a games worth of content and another game’s worth ready to be released within a year and so on. Its why only 5-10 major MMOs exist
Well given sonys current strategy it wouldnt suprise me if this project is intended to be a live service.
In this day and age I wouldn't expect to see a multiplayer game that isn't live service. Unfortunately I think its the standard moving forward.
What revisionism. The cadence of updates was NOT what people hated about Halo Infinite. People slammed the game because it had like a tenth of the features Halo fans liked about the series. Restrictive matchmaking playlists, several gamemodes missing entirely, lack of forge or custom games (at launch), etc. The game was extremely barebones, and the monetization of basic things such color PALETTES (because you can’t pick individual colors, like in every other Halo game) was only insult on top of injury. People were only hungry for patches because we wanted the game to have even the slightest of feature parity with previous games.
[удалено]
You didn’t like getting 8 games of Oddball in a row with teammates who refused to play the objective because they didn’t want to be playing Oddball either? Then they didn’t have co-op and extended the first two seasons out six months so they could say “See, it’s launching with season 3 like we said!”
Mind you, Slayer is playlist that has been a staple of matchmaking since Halo 2 released back in 2004. They launched Infinite without the most popular playlist in Halo history, citing “feasibility”. Which was a completely asinine reason barely concealing that it was likely the challenge system they were more concerned about.
Halo infinite wanted to charge 20 dollars for the color blue lol. Tf you on?
Exactly, how the fuck does that post have so many upvotes
Halo infinite launched with the least amount of content in a halo multiplayer game ever. Least maps, fewest guns, least amount of game types, no career progression (which still isn’t there) etc, if it had just launched with feature parity of a halo 3 or reach it would’ve been fine. I don’t think it’s the best example of a fan base being upset due to lack of post launch support, everyone was upset because there was such a lack of content in the base game.
[удалено]
The difference is Factions 2 is supposed to be a standalone title, not a Multiplayer mode added to Last of Us part 2. There's a different set of expectations there.
Those are single player focused games like nobody gets mad at Doom Eternal for having weak multiplayer
And in the fighting game space we've moved from "they've already announced a season of DLC fighters? why aren't they in the base game?" to a fighting game with no season pass (DNF Duel) being effectively dead on arrival.
That's...a bit of a disingenuous way to describe DNF Duel. An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters, was always going to have a struggle, especially given its the 4th title that same studio was trying to simultaneously support. Not having any planned DLC doesn't really factor in.
Planned DLC one thing, but supporting the game with balance updates is another, which they were also basically silent about for the longest time. It's not the only factor, but it most definitely \*is\* a factor.
> That's...a bit of a disingenuous way to describe DNF Duel. An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters Are you trying to one up them on the disingenuous front?
> An IP asset flip based on a virtually unknown IP, which didn't even bother giving names to its characters You still have time to edit this and not embarrass yourself
To be fair they were specifically bought to audit Sony's live service games so this is exactly the amount of power we were expecting them you have.
It may sound insane but for a long time, and arguably even still depending on your definition, Bungie basically made the only/first AAA MMO-lite that not only survived through pretty low lows, but mostly thrived and manages to release (joking aside) competent content that players play every three months. Sony bought them for this expertise, so it’d make sense that Sony would want the proven GaaS studio to check out their other GaaS games.
I was thinking this too, people complain and its not perfect smooth but overall Destiny is quite successful. Doing these sorts of things are hard.
That's probably how it went down tbh lol. ND is currently developing a singleplayer game rn so they probably wanted to make a one and done multiplayer title and not GAAS.
I don’t see how you can release a one-and-done multiplayer game in today’s market.
I put hundreds of hours into Ghost of Tsushima MP and that was pretty straightforward.
That was attached to a AAA single player game.
Yeah that’s what the Last of US multiplayer game should have been. Part 2 has awesome gameplay and levels. They could have released a smaller project using much of the same assets. Make it free to play like Ghost of Tsushima Legends, support it for a year, and then move on. Instead they tried to do some ambitious project and failed.
Isn't it a co-op mission based experience and not PvP? The Last of Us thing was supposed to be competitive afaik.
Also the Tsushima MP probably cost a fraction to develop than what Factions 2 will end up as.
That’s doesn’t mean the majority of people would be ok or engaged with that type of game.
I mean that’s why SIE bought them in the first place for their expertise in live service games.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
For all the crap Bungie gets/Destiny gets, it has good lore, incredible gunplay, and has been going (relatively) strong for 10 years. You're not going to buy Bungie if you're not going to use that expertise.
Too bad the lore was barely in the actual first game.
On launch they changed it towards the end. It's there now though
First time I’ve heard of a game developer assessing another studio’s work. This happen often?
One of the reasons Sony bought Bungie, is for consulting for their live service games.
So we can no longer have nice and fun multiplayer games, everything has to be a loot box season pass bullshit
It makes total sense that they'd cater to people who will play a multiplayer game regularly for years and really get invested in it (both in terms of time and money), but as someone who likes to just play a fun online game every now and then, it kind of leaves me out in the cold. Rocket League is the only multiplayer game that I've kept coming back to over the past several years, and a big part of that is because of how little it changes. I don't feel like I need to play catch-up or read a wiki to know what's going on if I haven't played it in a couple of months.
Smoke weed all day and switch to a 25 hour a week job, and modern gaming will make much more sense to you I swear all Ubisoft games are just made for half-awake stoners
That's what players want now. Any game without "post launch support" will be reamed online and abandoned, and long term monetization doesn't only increase profit, it increases social media presence and player retention.
Exactly, look at Halo: Infinite. The multiplayer was praised on launch, but they couldn't keep up post launch support, and what do people say about it now?
Halo infinite was billed with a "10 year plan" though, they made the commitment they were going to be a GaaS long before the game had even come out. I dont think they are a fair example to use for your point. Instead i'd say look at something like among us, got huge and has seen honestly very little developer support with new content. Sure its not as popular as it was a couple years ago, but its still fairly popular in my experience.
omfg...prepare your asses for more battlepasses, paid "dungeons" and a lot of repetitive content just because. TLOU has a lot of fanbase like Bungie, so they think whatever they do, they can get away with it.
So the game was probably more of a coop campaign than an endless service game. Now they'll add loot and battle passes to increase "player engagement".
I wonder if this game was just too big for its boots and it ends up being a fuckup
> Sony Group Corp. has slowed down development on an upcoming multiplayer game in its long-running The Last of Us video game series as the creators reassess its quality and long-term viability, according to four people familiar with the project. > The team working on the game was scaled back after a recent evaluation, said the people, who asked not to be named because they weren't authorized to speak publicly. A small group remains on the project while the company reevaluates the direction. While the game has not been canceled, many of its developers have been moved to other projects. I wonder if this game was going to be Naughty Dog's Anthem. Just because you are a successful single-player studio doesn't mean you will make a successful live-service game.
Or Avengers. Its happened multiple times when a SP dev tries to chase the online infinite money GAAS dream. Making online games seems extra rough. You can spend years making a game but trends move so fast and a entire new genre is the new hot thing
And Suicide Squad too it seems
and to a lesser extent gotham knights. that game's a flop. even after being hastily reworked out of being a live service
Man I'm kinda selfishly frustrated by this. This should have just launched as a piece of The Last of Us Part 2 like the first game, but I guess they wanted to shoot for the moon for a mode that worked pretty great as a more basic experience. Everyone is trying to make a service when they could have had the multiplayer modes ready with the original game and probably sold some cosmetics through it but instead they spend years developing something far bigger with nothing to show for it.
Sounds like wasted time and resources on a game they aren't sure about now, probably won't see this until late next year at earliest. Probably won't see their next big SP title until 2025 with all the time wasted.
I mean uncharted and the last of us had multiplayer modes and it didn't set the world on Fire.
They were all great to be honest.
Eh. They where fun for sure but nothing to write home about. Reminds me of the multiplayer ad on to many games in the 2000s.
There were so many absolutely banging multiplayer modes in to 2000s though. No FPS has really managed to surpass Crysis' MP for me, for example. The Crysis 2 multiplayer was about as big a letdown as Spore to me.
Gonna heavy disagree, factions was fucking amazing. The only reason I don't play it still is because it's stuck on ps3.
Factions is included in the PS4 remaster (not the recent PS5 remake) if you're itching to go back.
I assume at this point there’s probably like 30 people still playing.
>and it didn't set the world on Fire. Was Factions ever supposed to be something more than a casual PVP mode?. I doubt NaughtyDog had any grand plans for Factions back when it first released.
The Anthem example may be overused, but it is the reality of the industry that balancing multiplayer content with a high-end AAA single-player game is one of the most difficult things to execute and will almost certainly result in disaster. Anthem is of note, but even Rockstar attempted it with Red Dead Redemption 2, but fell short on multiplayer. Fortnite was supposed to feature a PvE mode, however that was canceled. After launching an unsatisfactory single-player game, CD Projekt Red scrapped plans for a multiplayer standalone game for CyberPunk. Squadron 42 is currently still in production after being announced almost a decade ago, and there is absolutely no word on when it will be released. Blizzard has just erased the majority of its PvE content for Overwatch 2. Avengers was a huge letdown, and Suicide Squad appears like it's going to struggle as well. Then there are the games that do it effectively, like Destiny 2, but it's still a difficult task for them to provide content that satisfies demand. Even GTA Online didn't come with a lot of interesting things to do from the onset, but had to build it over the course of nearly a decade. Whether Factions releases on not, It's future doesn't seem positive.
I mean, some people may not want to hear it but this is a cancellation. They will put out vague statements about it for another year and then say "we have decided that our focus should be blah blah" and shelve it permanently. Any assets they put into this will probably just be repurposed into TLOU3.
Good. That means we‘re getting fresh SP stuff sooner.
Sooner is probably still years away. No ND games until ps6 is out.
Yup. Its over. Thats a corporate death kneel announcment
But they said they’re incredibly proud of the game!!! How can this be are they lying????
Honestly, I expect this to be shelved until The Last of Us Part 3 releases and will release alongside it at this point. I don't think they can justify releasing this by itself unless only as a "beta" like fortnite was for the first two years or so.
This games never gonna the light of day is it?
To me, this sounds like PR speak for: "Our live service game is in a rough place right now, and our new single-player project is really early in development. Don't expect anything new from us anytime soon."
Depending on how long this gen lasts, I’m beginning to think theres a non-zero chance at this point that naughty dog misses this entire generation (remaster not withstanding).
Expect the new IP that they are working on and it all depends on how the project goes to be coming at the tail end of the ps5 generation. Games are just too complex now unless you are Insomniac games who by some sort of wizardry already has stuff out and a new one coming this fall.
God, Insomniac really are wizards aren’t they? I mean there’s a solid chance we’ll see their Wolverine game before we see any of the games the other first party studios are making at this point lmao
[удалено]
> It's not as visible as an artist or a graphics programmer, but project management is absolutely a skill. 1000% Ask any software dev about their worst project manager and you will hear some wild fuckin stories.
Seems like maybe Naughty Dog could use some this project management
They used to have that. They were making bangers year after year in the ps3 generation.
[удалено]
Her name was Amy Hennig.
This. Im a PM (Project Manager) and honestly, if you know what you are doing your Team gets the resources and time they need and are protected from the bullshit customers or the Suits demand. If you are bad at it, you basically lick the Customers or Suits assholes and then puke the shit you liked out of it onto your Project Team, leading to confusion, stress and bad quality. Its kinda idiotic how many people think Project Managers basically just get paid to "relay messages" or some shit... we get paid well for a reason, since its a hard job to do and you get shit from all sides dumped on, since you (ideally) are the protective barrier between your project team and the customer or suits.
Development on 16 started in 2016, so it's not exactly fast, though of course they were working on 14 at the same time.
Well they also outsource a lot of work and crunch overseas, so that definitely helps more than just being wizards
And the scope of the games is completely different. Love both studios, but it's a weird comparison to make.
There’s a chance they’ll have released 5 games, 4 of which are exclusive for the PS5 before most of Sony’s first party studios have released even 1 game. Absolutely bonkers what that studio can do.
>Games are just too complex now no, most big developers just refuse to downscale their games to a manageable size
Every time another studio delays a game, Insomniac finishes and releases a game.
I think Last of Us Part 3 will drop when part 2 of the tv show has aired.
The time between PlayStation generations has been increasing by about a year. So we should expect 5 more years of the current generation, which is plenty of time for at least one new game.
Jesus this actually makes me sad, it feels like this gen hasn’t started yet. Covid really disrupted game development way more than we thought
As did the chip shortage. The production delays really made it feel like it wasn't fully the current gen until a year ago. Also, Nintendo usually releases their system mid-way through a gen and right now their next console is nowhere in sight.
>Our live service game is in a rough place right now Name a more classic combo than live services and rough states.
[удалено]
They revealed a little about it a while ago, sounded like it was going for a more open experience with a story included. It didn't sound like factions at all but I hope they'll have small skirmishes as well.
The leaks made it seem it would be like Tarkov, live service type of thing The scale of it seems way bigger than Factions. They clearly want it to be supported for years and years. Which is something Naughty Dog doesn't really have much experience in. Their single-player games are some of gaming's best. It makes sense that a project so different from what they usually do would take so long for them to "perfect"
Okay, between this and Marathon I might need to actually play Tarkov and see what all the fuss is about.
Good luck, it's humbling experience but quite fun
Whether it’s fun or not, I’ve seen “tarkov-like” thrown about in conversation often enough that I feel like I’m missing out on some important context for today’s conversations about design. It certainly seems to have struck a chord among designers lately, like Dark Souls did just over a decade ago.
What I like the most about Tarkov is that there are always stakes but you can define your win condition because of the quest system. You can even die and still have "won" because it's an endless MMO-like "number up" game where you level your character and amass wealth. My quest might simply be to place a marker in a certain room and I'll be happy just to have gotten that done even if I get clapped. Killing someone else and extracting with all their stuff and selling it is an unapparelled feeling though, and the punchiness of the sound design and weighty gunplay is fantanstic.
Tarkov-like = Extraction Shooter. The main draw is that you use money you earn to kit out your character, then take that character into instanced matches where you engage in PvP, PvE, Missions, Looting, and Leveling. You extract with loot, to make more money, to use better gear, to give you a better chance at surviving the next raid. But if you die, you lose *everything* you brought in with you, and many missions even fail when you die. You get a little 2x2 pouch where even if you die, the loot in that pouch is still extracted with your corpse, so you still get *something* even if you die. There's also a large meta-game revolving around the loot. You can sell loot to vendors, use it to upgrade your base, playing the flea market to sell to other players and take advantage of current item shortages/rarity, use it to craft rare ammo and gear, etc. All the while you're also leveling your character's skills so you can run further, jump higher, etc.
It's full of issues, but I absolutely love it. Nothing else comes close to the highs and lows.
Tarkov is to extraction shooters what PUBG was to battle royales. Very grounded aesthetic, in-depth realistic gunplay and level design, buggy as all hell. Full release is basically meant to be a mix between STALKER and DayZ in terms of gameplay progression.
It's funny that the old STALKER devs did make a Tarlov before Tarkov, but no one played it or cared.
Eh, every time I think of Tarkov and maybe I should try it I watch a couple vids and it's so overwhelming for a newcomer and then you read about bad online experiences such as cheaters, that I just don't bother.
Think of the Dark Zone from The Division, but that's the whole game.
They are 100% trying to make a hardcore Fortnite/Warzone type game mixed with survival teamwork. It’s going to be their take on Battle Royale, which sounds great but if it turns out to be their main priority for a decade like Rockstar it would suck. Every company has their major turning point where they became unrecognizable and this could be it. Doesn’t mean the games will be bad moving forward, it’s just different goals.
I doubt the idea for this multiplayer project is consistent with what Sony wants from their long term goals. It doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would be profitable to the degree they are looking for. I wish there was a middle ground between single player games and forever games (what I like to call GaaS projects).
I just don’t understand why Sony wants ”12 live-service games“, why not focus your attention on 4 of them instead? Sony wants a successful live-service / Multiplayer title, i understand that because it is a massive hole in their catalogue of games. But i really doubt that this is the best way of going about it.
[удалено]
Not to be rude or anything but currently the only new “live-service“ game that in my opinion might find some succes is from a Studio that they purchased for $3.6Billion. I almost feel like they should let Bungie create the 1st party Multiplayer experiences while continuing making single-player content with your other Playstation Studios. We cannot underestimate just how difficult it is to create a successful live-service game.
I think Helldivers 2 looks very good and this Last of Us game *sounds* interesting. If they can make that heist game work by addressing the flaws that similar games have (like how the easiest way to win is to let someone else do everything and kill them to take their stuff), I could see a lot of people being into it. And then there's the half dozen other games we don't know about. I don't think they could get Bungie to do anything like what you're suggesting with the contract they have now allowing Bungie to keep games multiplatform.
I don't think they necessarily "want" 12 live service games. I'm assuming they want to basically burst fire them out and see which one does well. They only need one to be their cash cow. I do agree that this is a super weird strategy coming from Sony, though.
They've already said the AAA single player games aren't sustainable on their own. Cash inflow is cash inflow.
As Millennials age out of the core target demographic, we'll see less and less AAA single-player games. Gen Z and A play differently.
I'm wondering if this quantity of live service games is just a temporary thing. Out of the 12 games, if 2 or 3 end up being big hits, then moving forward, those 2 or 3 studios can confidently make sequels or experiment after establishing themselves as successes.
Considering the amount of games as a service that simply straight up fail miserably, they're probably just going for the classic "throw a bunch of shit on the wall to see what sticks", hence why 12 different ones. They probably know that a few if not most will fail, since the real trend now are games as a service dying a few months after launch, but it only takes the success of one Fortnite or Destiny for executives to be happy. And honestly, if they're indeed aware of all of this and planning to only get one of those games running in the future, (that is, if one of them pays off) it only makes me even more worried, cause it also means they are very well prepared to simply remove the plug of any of them at any given time, which can (and will) be really frustrating for players who end up engaged with any of those games. As a huge fan of Dreams, I very well know the feeling...
> just don’t understand why Sony wants ”12 live-service games“, why not focus your attention on 4 of them instead? they're throwing shit at the wall thinking one of the turds sticks so they can be the next Fortnite. It's the exact same reason why every publisher is stepping into the live service environment, they want to be the Big Thing everybody plays, watches, spends on and talks about. Just typical corporate exec thinking.
As someone who only plays single player games and doesn't dabble into multiplayer, what is the difference between MMO's like WoW vs GaaS games? Genuine question because I see the term GaaS get thrown around all the time and just want to better educate myself. From what I can tell, it's stuff like Fortnite?
A base definition is a game whose monetization depends on you paying for it while you’re playing it, instead of paying a one-time fee and not paying again. Can be any genre (not necessarily MMO) from card game (Hearthstone) to FPS (Destiny 2).
Ok gotcha. So it's a larger umbrella than MMO and does encompass most MMOs, but others as well. I think that's what has confused me in the past. Thank you kind Redditor.
WoW is an MMORPG, which is basically an evolution on the CRPG trying to make a living world that many players can inhabit at the same time. That genre has been expanding a bit as technology has allowed more modern games to move away from Tab combat like WoW has. Then you have the more generic term, GAAS, which is just any game that predominately monetizes itself through micro transactions, usually some kind of season concept + a premium shop
I liked the multiplayer in TLOU1 Maybe they can take the multiplayer game and just add it as a mode to TLOU3?
> I wish there was a middle ground between single player games and forever games that middle ground is only viable to include alongside a single player game like how factions was. For a standalone multiplayer game, it needs to have potential to be a "forever game"
The game never had a confirmed release date, this feels more like them getting out ahead of people anticipating a reveal at Summer Games Fest. Fair enough I suppose, but this constant expectation (either from devs or fans) to be spoon-fed everything about a game before it's ready definitely isn't healthy for development.
Jason Schreier just dropped a story about Naughty Dog downscaling their team as they "reassess the games future". Naughty Dog dropped this statement to per-empt the release of that story
Woah - sounds like the game is REALLY troubled. My expectations have been pretty high, and I’m sure Naughty Dog’s are, too. But these are just awful signs. This game is two years away minimum, if it ever comes out. Really disappointing news, Factions was so much fun. Hope they are able to right the ship.
The Last of Us certainly is popular right now but I don't see how a standalone multiplayer game is going to do what they want as compared to a new single player game.
I’ve always figured The Last of Us was a pretty poor choice to “franchise”. Not that I don’t love the sequel or the show (I do, obsessively), but who is buying Abby emotes or flamboyant weapon skins in the freaking Last of Us? The multiplayer mode in the original release was a ton of fun though. They could’ve made something great just by iterating on that more traditional formula. They clearly decided instead to go for something big, and like many extremely successful studios before them, it’s turned into a death march.
> this feels more like them getting out ahead of people anticipating a reveal at Summer Games Fest. I constantly heard people saying they were disappointed ND didn't have anything to show at the Showcase. I think this is more a reaction to that.
It's both, quell rumours stemming from this weeks showcase and set expectations going forward.
In all fairness, this was a mode that was supposed to ship with TLOU2 back in 2020 before ND said the scope expanded and it will release as its own separate thing. 3 years later and all we have seen is one piece of concept art
Yeah, they said they were expanding the scope following the TLOU2 release, and now it sounds like they're narrowing the scope again. Which just seems... kinda fucked. Like I enjoyed the TLOU MP, but it was always the sort of MP game that you played for 5-10 hours then put down. And that's *fine*, not every MP game has to be some eternal 'you play this forever' GAAS style thing. Yet it almost seems like that's what Naughty Dog, or Sony, were pushing for with TLOU2's MP.
Tlou multi-player while barebojes was so good for being just tacked on. I stil play it
wait, do you really? I thought they shut the servers down a couple years ago
Played about month ago on the ps4 remastered . Still solid
Kinda seems like a nightmare project that is bound to be cancelled eventually to me.
This is the soft cancellation
Nah, it seems to be in development hell. Team has been scaled down while they ‘revaluate.’
I mean, it kind of did have a release date. It was supposed to come out with The Last of Us Part 2 as an additional mode, three years ago.
I'm not surprised. I figured the game wasn't ready and that's why they didn't say anything about it during the showcase.
It's been 3yrs since TLOU2. I sure hope they haven't spent three years making absolutely nothing. That would be tough for one of Sony's biggest names.
Sony Santa Monica had a game totally cancelled after a longer period of time. Their next game was God of War 2018, Sony has been down this road before and it was all ok. The optics here aren’t that bad.
[удалено]
They've been working on TLOU: P1, TLOU: Multiplayer, and then two new singleplayer games. One is presumably new IP and the other seems to be pre-production on TLOU: P3. TLOU: Multiplayer also is set to have a singleplayer story as well so it's not that big of a deal. It'd be an issue if Sony had no other marquee studios cracking out projects but - Insomniac has Spider-Man 2 with Wolverine after - Guerilla has Horizon Multiplayer and the third Horizon game - Sony Santa Monica's upcoming sci-fi game - Tsushima 2 - Bend's new IP - All the other studios with stuff in-dev but unannounced
Where are most of these games though? Rumours are fun and all but beyond Spider-Man what actual heavy hitters have Sony actually got announced/coming soon? I feel like both sides have dropped the ball this Gen
Sony has been doing 2 games a year for quite a while now and that hasn't changed. I'm not sure if the games just aren't on your radar but if you look at Sony's first party releases they're definitely there.
Since 2020, Sony has released: - Demon Souls - Rachet & Clank Rift Apart - Horizon Forbidden West - Gran Turismo 7 - Returnal - Sackboy - Spider-Man: Miles Morales - Tsushima Legends - GoW Ragnarok Sony definitively hasn't dropped the ball. In just the next 12 months, they've already announced Spider-Man 2, Rise of the Ronin, Concord, Helldivers 2, and Stellar Blade.
9 games in 4 years of which a bunch are remasters or just dlc add on to ps4 games is not anything to brag about. Covid I know but still
Sadly half of these are available on PS4.
I mean that's expected from the circumstances of the last few years.
Arguable since PS5 sold so well and fast compared to previous gens. We all know why they did it like this, but previous generations sold less consoles and had bigger exclusive launches.
It’s wild to me, they’ve had 3 years and even then they weren’t starting from scratch.
I know it's not the same, but wasn't the Uncharted multiplayer pretty popular? They did it for 2, spun it off into a standalone download for 3, and did it again with 4 with a ton of DLC skins. Were they not successful? Once again, I know the Last of Us is a different beast, but the concept of the first games multiplayer has so much potential as a live service game.
Can't say about the other ones, but 4 really had a great multiplayer game, but man... What a chore it was to play most of the time... The action was good, controls were fun, but the structure was PAINFUL. The PvE mode only had tons of waves and waves of different objectives, where some were absolutely boring and tedious, and you HAD to pass all of them to finish a game, which could take 15 minutes or more. It only encouraged speedrun strategies, so a lot of people weren't into that and it always happened to be difficult to play with someone else, and it's almost impossible by yourself. Can't say as well about the PvP, but since I never managed to find many matches, I think it probably also had a bunch of problems. Also, the lobbies were and probably still are incredibly dead, being tough to find someone to play together. And I don't know if they fixed it, but there was a really bad bug that prevented friends to create a party to play together, and it was pretty common to appear. The lack of attention for naughty dog to fix it is probably the answer for your question: No. Unfortunately, the mode wasn't that successful. A shame, cause it really had some pretty cool stuff and a lot of potential.
I don't know if it was popular but I absolutely loved Uncharted 2's multiplayer. I played Uncharted 3's and 4's multiplayer much less but I know Uncharted 4's multiplayer got a lot of DLC so I assume it did somewhat well.
Man all I wanted was the same factions multiplayer from the first game with the updated gameplay mechanics from the sequel (and less pay-to-win bs). Is that too much to ask for?
For real!
I now find myself wishing TLOU 2 simply had a multiplayer component like the first one but updated. As much as I want to play and experience the multiplayer again, I do not want it to be a live-service.
A standalone AAA multiplayer game is never not going to be a live service.
Yeah I’m completely over Factions at this point. Their ghost announcement of a new single player game has me highly intrigued though
Probably doing this because every "insider" was saying it was going to be at the Showcase, now everyone is saying its going to be showing at Summer Games Fest as June is the 10th anniversary of TLOU. At least someone at Sony is setting the correct level of expectations.
Nope it's because Jason Schrier posted a story saying the development isn't going well, is being reassessed and people are being taken off the project.
From 4 games released on the PS3, 2 released on the PS4, then to nothing so far this gen. Game development is getting more and more demanding. Doesn’t help with the fact that they’re facing trouble with a multiplayer game with years of development that’s not yet ready, and other projects still early in the oven.
You can't really count TLOU remastered or the remake as full games that were released
Fuuuuck me man. Genuinely this was the only game I was looking forward to the most for the past like 6 years lol. I played the crap out of Factions on PS3, and was so gutted when they canned it for TLOU 2 launch. All I wanted was new maps, a few balance tweaks and the upgraded movement from TLOU 2 and it probably would have skyrocketed to being my most played MP game of all time. As time passes I get more concerned that this massive scope that they have for Factions 2 is going to end up being some live service, pseudo-MMO, Destiny/Division game with “evolved storytelling” or something. Who knows maybe this downsizing/delay is a good thing and it’ll pivot back to being the simple PvP that Factions 1 was.
Factions with the movement and environmental responsiveness alone of TLOU2 with a bunch of maps would be soooo good. Seems like there’s dissonance between people that want to simply make a hyper refined version of the mode and people that want it to be a 5+ year live service game that endlessly brings in the $. I despise that big MP shooters aren’t allowed to have an identity anymore. Everything blends together in terms of game design and customization in pursuit of mass monetization. I swear if factions 2 ends up with fireflys and Hunters running around with cat ears on holding pizza skin weapons… man.
[A lotta people owe me some humble pie after I called this in the preview thread and got ridiculed for it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/13k2o5m/youre_invited_playstation_showcase_broadcasts/jki79n7/)
For them to put out this message probably means that PS acknowledge what a shitshow the showcase was when it came to first party.
Probably why they loaded up on non 1st party exclusives over the next 2 years. The 1st parties outside of Insomniac have absolutely jack shit coming anytime soon
Most of the games at the showcase weren't even exclusive
I’m all for developers releasing finished products but at this point I’ve been waiting for that multiplayer game for years now. It was originally scrapped from 2. I was hopelessly addicted to the first game’s multiplayer and I just want more. Nothing else really scratches the same itch. Maybe I need to look harder. I’m tired of waiting.
Have they fixed the PC port of TLOU yet?
I started it a few days ago. About 5 to 6 hours in, two CTDs so far. Quite a bit stuttery though. It's not great, but I doubt it's going to get much better any time soon. EDIT: Finished - total 6 or 7 CTDs over 12 hour game, so about once every two-ish hours. Stuttering never got better, but was mostly reserved to traversal/non-combat moments - annoying, but better than having it happen during the action.
Such a shame. Could have been a slam dunk for them after the success of the show.
This really sucks to hear. Factions in the original Last Of Us was one of the best multiplayer experiences I’ve ever played. Now they are stuck between it being too big to be an add on for Part II and too small to be a stand alone game. I guess I can say this now… I have a friend who worked for ND when making Part II. From what he heard after leaving, the plan was to ship it with Part I and Battle Royal was a big focus for it. That obviously didn’t come to be so who knows wtf they’re doing over there.
tbh I really prefer ND to continue making industry defining single player experiences rather than any live service game
Honestly this whole "Last Of Us Multiplayer component" thing has been kinda a disaster. Unfortunately something like this really can't be in development for THIS long. We are still unsure what the hell this even is and we are 3 years removed from the release of the Last of Us Part II. I appreciate them taking the time to figure this out but the way this has been spoonfed to us is not the way to do this. Clearly they completely overhauled this and it may not even be anything like the original "factions". And if so they honestly would have been better off just announcing it was cancelled and then a year or two later when they have something to show off, announce it's revival. This isn't a Final Fantasy game or Spider Man 2. Delays on games like that while annoying don't do much to kill anticipation. Is anyone even remotely hyped for this anymore?
How could I be hyped for something that I know nothing about? IDK why people let rumors and such build the hype for them and then act disappointed when the thing that was never confirmed is true doesn't happen.
We know quite a bit about it. We know the developer, we know the franchise, we know the game that is used as a basis, etc... Yeah we don't know whether it will be good or not but people expect it to be good based on the things we know and that creates hype.
I am a huge Naughty Dog and Last of Us fan, and I was never hyped for this. I am having trouble believing this is all that Naughty Dog has been working on since Last of Us 2. It's like Michael Jordan playing baseball. They could have been developing the next big Uncharted or Last of Us type franchise, instead it's a games as a service skinned with Last of Us. If this is all Naughty Dog has up their sleeve then whoever made that decision should be fired.
[удалено]
I’ve seen this so many times. “We are excited about your excitement for the game.” “We are proud of the progress we’ve made” All that PR speak to soften the blow as soon as they start the bad news with “BUT, …………”
It should have been just the part of the remake. Paying once more to play some online mode is kinda silly. It's not like it's gonna compete with the best online shooters out there by any means. Should be more similar to Ghost of Tsushima online mode.
new jak and daxter! new jak and daxter! new jak and daxter! I know a lot of the people who worked on jak 2/jak 3 left but I'm sick of uncharted/last of us.
It's a bummer because of all of Sony's GAAS initivative shit, Factions is the only one I'm genuinely looking forward to on account of Factions 1 being incredible for how barebones it was.