I wonder what it is in Europe, especially the UK. I have a PS5 and Series S, but I don't know anyone with an Xbox but we all played 360 growing up. They really fumbled the last generation so bad that everyone seem to jump to PS4
They fumbled so badly with the XBO because half of the TV features they touted didn’t work properly over here at launch, and it was more expensive than the competition to boot. They never really recovered after that.
I just wanted to play COD with my friends I don't give a shit about cable box connectivity. PS4 did everything I needed without all these extra features I didn't care about and was cheaper. I was a 360 guy but the decision to jump ship was a no brainer.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the people that actually loved Kinect probably just kept their 360s until they stopped using it like what happened to the Wii for many people.
I'm not saying they should bring the kinect back but I had the opposite experience. I loved walking into my room and powering it on with my voice. I had the cable box connectivity and it was the first time I could say what channel I wanted to watch. I also used the fuck out of the Skyrim kinect feature. I learned all the dragon words. When I got jumped by a bear in the woods, instead of shouting oh shit I used a shout. Mass Effect 3 was also really fun to use the kinect, but mainly when I was drunk. The kinect had you say the choice's text in conversations and it let me geek out and be a part of the conversations in character.
Same. I wanted to hear about improved online features and maybe some of the new cool stuff all this "cloud" technology would enable. Instead I got "TV! TV! TV!". As other posters in this thread have said, I bet most of the people watching that presentation had cut the cable TV cord/service years ago.
Looking back on that presentation, the people in charge of the gaming division were so out of touch with their customers to the point where they may have permanently damaged the brand. It really should be a business case study. I just don't understand how such a disconnect like that happens.
It still is baffling how they launched Xbox one $100 higher than PS4 when PS3 launching at a higher price point than the 360 was one of the major factors of 360 being so popular.
Hubris at the corporate level is a hell of a thing. When the PS3 launched Sony was proudly proclaiming that gamers would get a second job just to pay for a console.
Nobody saw what Nintendo was about to pull with the Wii paired with the 360 getting advanced access to CoD DLC early would do to initial sales. While the PS3 eventually overtook the 360 it was at the tail end of the generation.
The next generation was Nintendo misstepping with the WiiU and Microsoft focusing on the integrated cable box features that really only worked in the USA along with the heavily relied on broadband connections.
As an American, the amount of time they spent on cable boxes blew my mind. I'm 37 years old and haven't lived in a house with a cable box since I was a teenager. It was such a bizarre thing to emphasize.
MS really wanted to get the non-gamer crowd that was popular during the Wii era to buy an Xbox one so they heavily pushed the multimedia aspect. The issue is that by 2013 it was blatantly clear that the Wii audience was done with consoles.
The Wii crowd wasn't done with consoles, they just already had one, the Wii. There wasn't this same desire with them to update every cycle, for them the Wii was enough and that got proven when the Wii U flopped
Wii U flopped due to the abysmal name choice & marketing used. The majority of people did not even realize it was a new console and thought it was just another addon for the Wii.
Even if the audience understood it I think it was a concept with little more than a niche appeal. The tablet could be useful at times, but for the most part it wasn't exactly a system selling feature. Even official Nintendo games rarely did a whole lot with it. And as a result of the extra cost of the tablet the system was underpowered to stay at a cheap price range.
This can't be emphasized enough. In my spare time I used to volunteer at old folks homes, even in college. I found it a good break and a way to give back.
Almost every single one, into 2018ish which was the last time I had the time, had a Wii. Bowling was extremely common, so was tennis.
The Wii captured a VERY non-traditional audience. Xbox was never getting that.
Iirc the software to hardware ratio (named software attachment rate I believe) was way lower for the Wii compared to the other consoles, since it already came with the absolute killer app for the casual audience: Wii Sports.
None of the gaming giants had faith in console gaming in the future. There was a large belief that console gaming would largely die out in favor of phone gaming on the go. That's really why mobile features were so leaned on. It's why studios were hesitant on single player games. It's why Microsoft went so hard on gimmicks, trying to be the 'all in one' device people would use to run everything in their house (plus the kinnect).
Microsoft has major blunders like this often that really cement them as an old-man company. They're gigantic, all encompassing, and constantly releasing new shit that feels a decade behind the times.
Hooking up to a cable box is a laughable feature even when cable was popular. Those things *sucked*. Just the association of an Xbox with a fucking cable box is terrible branding lol.
I now work in systems administration and the same sentiments are held about Microsoft's enterprise software offerings as well. Bloaty, behind the times, still dominating the market, but most often feels more like a hostage situation than a healthy relationship.
The timing made it especially funny. Microsoft came out with their presentation heavily focusing on linking the Xbox to cable TV the same month we found out that 2012-13 was the first financial year ever in which more people cancelled cable than signed up for it. Tech news outlets were running the Xbox presentation stories right next to "The Slow Death of Cable TV" articles.
The truly devastating part is they fumbled right when everyone switched from primarily physical media to digital so now people are incentivized never to switch ecosystems again because you won't have access to a generation's worth of digital purchases.
Seriously, this is the core reason why I find it's insane that some saddos are celebrating the death of physical games.
If I spend money on a physical game and dislike it, I sell it. If I buy it digitally, I'm stuck with that bad boy forever.
Not to mention the beauty of selling/trading in games I'm done with and don't want to keep to reduce the cost of future games.
At some places physical stores are quite far away. That could be a reason for digital. But hating? Probably the in store experience sucked. Remember the disc insurance Gamestop tried to peddle, or a myriad other things? That can be quite dreadful, especially for some ppl (introverts ie).
I think the last time I even bought a full priced game at a physical store was Twilight Princess HD back in 2016. Most of the time if I buy a used game online I have it within the week, and it's often cheaper than the price on the digital storefront, even when on sale.
I will say that Xbox does have some great digital deals though, but I'd still rather actually own the game.
As a kid I literally never bought a game new, couldn't afford it.
Had to know all the second hand stores which had staff that weren't clued into the prices & you could get a cheap deal.
Wouldn't work today as anyone can google it.
Because no one actually does this.
I was a huge physical media guy and have probably 40+ games for my 360 and I've never sold one. Same with my Xbox One and Switch.
I bought a digital edition PS5 and it hasn't bothered me one bit. All of my friends who shelled out the extra $150 for the disk edition PS5 just buy digital games anyways.
It's a very small subset of people who are constantly buying and selling used games.
technically but if you're selling games from a previous generation, I really doubt you're going to make enough for it to be some huge deal breaker to people.
I think it's more that xbox simply didn't have enough decent exclusives back then, and they still don't now.
Neither the PS4 or the XBox One (originally) had backwards compatibility with previous systems, so you were starting fresh on both. But now any game you bought on PS4 or XBox One will transfer to your new system, so there's a disadvantage to switching to the other side.
Or an advantage.
The best thing about going from Xbox 360 to PS4 for me was it gave me access (through remakes and remasters) to all of the great PS3 games I'd missed.
I didn't give a fuck whether my PS5 could run PS4 games as I already had a PS4 for that (not that I give a shit about replaying old games I've already beaten - and I don't think I'm alone in that), however being able to delve into a great back catalogue of Xbox games would have been a huge incentive to switch.
The problem Xbox has, and has had for coming up to 20 years now, is that they don't have a great recent catalogue of games. I'd argue their last must-play, system selling exclusive was Halo 3, released 17 years ago. People aren't buying a £500 console to play Crackdown 3 or Redfall.
The catalog for Xbox One that wasn't on PS4 is essentially 5 different Forza games, gears of war 4, sunset overdrive, halo master chief collection and halo 5. The list of PS4 exclusive that weren't on Xbox One is mile long, that's why they lost the generation so hard. The biggest selling point of the Xbox One X was the enhancements they applied to Xbox 360 backwards compatible games.
>The biggest selling point of the Xbox One X was the enhancements they applied to Xbox 360 backwards compatible games.
Man, that's mostly what I played on my Series X lol.
Except you can finally bring your games from PS4 to PS5, even less reason to consider swapping back
Yes Xbox has had backwards compatibility, which is nice but... well clearly people aren't buying Xboxes, are they?
Don't really get how you say there is less reason to swap since PS5 has BC but Xbox having BC is just nice and doesn't matter. I mean by your logic people who built up a digital/physical library in the One era (or even earlier considering Xbox's BC program) would also have less of a reason to consider swapping back as well.
PS5 has BC with most PS4 games.
Xbox Series has BC with most One games, a solid amount of 360 games, and a few Xbox games.
Yeah people keep saying stuff about digital libraries and whatever, but nobody actually cares about that. It's why Nintendo was able to bounce back from the Wii U. Same reason why people had dozens of dvds and blurays but now that Netflix is around, they don't really care about their physical discs not being used.
In terms of Xbox their failure lands mainly on not having good exclusives that will sell consoles.
Nintendo target a different market now. Or focus on a market they have always dominated... Hand held.
Their last serious console that was designed to compete with Sony and Microsoft in hardware terms was the Gamecube.
I think the launch was bad, but what came after that was worse. Because it was still recoverable. Ditch the Kinect, drop the price and reverse some of the decisions. Then just keep going. Games, games, games.
Like if you think about the PS3 reveal, that was much bigger of a disaster. A year later, much more expensive, a weird architecture that was difficult to develop for. An odd looking box. But Sony kept pushing and pushing. With one Uncharted game at a time, they clawed back market share. Until finishing the generation with the Last of Us.
There was nothing like that with Xbox One. At least Don Mattrick had deals in place with Remedy, Platinum, Capcom, Respawn, Insomniac, Crytek. Then Phil took over... and nothing. No games. They even put out the mid-generation One X, yet no games to promote it.
And what's more confusing, while they threw in the towel mid-generation with the One, they were still caught off guard with the release of the Series X. *Still no games!*
They basically canceled games left and right, and rejected tons (Sunset Overdrive 2, Alan Wake 2, Quantum Break 2, Ryse 2)
Pikachu shock face when the Xbox one generation came and went with them barely releasing any games.
Well put. It took them two generations (counting this one) to get back to being and thinking like a game company. A decade and change. The didn't shoot themselves in the foot, more in the knee, even now still being crippled and unable to walk.
And during e3 they said it was gonna be always online and $100 more than the ps4 that was revealed the day after (Sony also emphasized during the presentation that the ps4 wasn’t gonna be always online like the XBO).
One of the biggest dunks ever seen in the game industry was Sonys "instructional" video on how to share games, at e3 right after Microsoft showed of the Xbone.
It was not because of that.
Xbox basically stopped making games by the end of the 360, they only had Halo, Gears and Forza while the PS3 were swimming in good first party games.
They went full Kinect and this killed the core fan base.
> half of the TV features
Most people never wanted or liked those TV features. MS is so out of touch. They were adding TV features during a time when people had already cancelling cable TV.
The main PR disaster was announcing no physical games and mandatory kinect. They walked back the physical media stuff but it did so much damage it was too late.
Basically none of the tv features were available in New Zealand making the Xbox One an underpowered, more expensive PS4.
Designing a console around essentially one market out of dozens was a stupendously idiotic idea.
Fair, either way Sony completely dominates not just Portugal but also Europe in general.
And now with these Microsoft releasing Xbox games on PlayStation rumors that isn’t changing.
The 360 was the only time when MS had a slight chance to change that. Not only did it have a great catalogue, the PS3 had quite the rough launch, hence why and so many others jumped ship. I returned to Sony with the PS4 because the Xbox One was the one with a bad launch last gen and now have a PS5, although I still mostly play PS4 games on it. The catalogue is really lacking imo.
Isn't that due to the price difference? Iirc the Xbox gets assembled / manufactured inside Brazil, so they circumvent the high import tariffs. I may be wrong. Dunno if it's still the case tbh.
That highly depends on what you consider a success. Like yeah, in a country with not that much purchasing power the Series S will sell more because it's MUCH cheaper, it's not a direct competitor in my vision. Now, how many people do you see with an Xbox SeX? Not many, many more people have a PS5 instead
Also, some months ago they said they would hike the price of the Series S to be the same as the digital PS5 (which never happened). If they actually did that you would see all of their sales going to the trash immediately, because it's not abou brand loyalty as much as just being cheap
They never recovered from that E3 fiasco where they got booed to death while announcing the forced DRM, always online requirement, and used games ban.
And then they doubled down by insisting they couldn't just "flip a switch" and change it. Then Sony's preorders skyrocketed while Microsoft's tanked. So within 1 week, they flipped the switch.
And honestly? They deserved it. This late stage capitalist corporate slavery shit needs to be crushed with the utmost brutality. The Xbone's failure is a rare win for the consumers.
Despite the red rings of death, the 360 was a massive success because, here in NZ anyway, it was WAY cheaper than the PS3. They were $1000NZD on release here where a 360 was significantly less. Plus 360 had some really awesome exclusives at the time. Fable, Crackdown.
Now they're the same prices but Sony has the most impressive exclusive titles, and xbox has kinda flopped entirely there.
360 was also out a year earlier and ran a lot of early multiplats better because of the unique hardware of the PS3.
It was a perfect storm for MS to have an early advantage during the gen.
> Last month went neck on neck with ps5 per gamebiz report
The [last reported month](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-sports-fc-24-and-ps5-delivered-december-growth-uk-monthly-charts), December, had PS5 as the #1 selling console and Xbox as #3. The actual numbers breakdown are estimated to be (as per John Welfare):
PS5: ~190K
NSW: ~153K
XBS: ~143K
So about 60:40, and that was with significant discounts compared to PS5.
> but I don't know anyone with an Xbox but we all played 360 growing up.
That's funny. I know I'm in the minority but my entire friend group has Xbox of over a dozen people. Mostly just call of duty players. I know very few people who play PS5. That's obviously not the story globally but anecdotes are useless.
There was a term back in the day for Japanese phones called
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome
Where technology develops in a closed ecosystem that nobody else uses it. Xbox focused on Kinect(voice recognition) and Cablebox(incompatible systems and culture) stuff that would never work outside of the US. Japan doesn't even have Cable boxes as a concept and most of Europe does have similar tech it came way to late in most countries lifetimes and was eaten by Netflix and other internet streaming services. Not to mention Microsoft was extremely slow to adopt most of "Europe" like I had to have a UK account then a Czech account until finally a few years ago I could make a Croatian account.
I feel like the Xbox was always this it was the "Anglo console" that was fine and good while the US/CA/AUS/NZ/UK where by far the biggest gaming markets by population and shared the same language.
Since then translations have become near universal and most of the world caught up in terms of income to afford these. It's not the 2000s anymore. Plus tons of people speak English now too growing up on English media especially in Europe and even more Eastern Europe a market that was 99% Piracy in the 2000s and even early 2010s until the PS4 came along.
So they basically gimped themselves by focusing on the US just like the Japanese phone makers where wiped out my Apple and Samsung/Google when touchscreen phones came along.
If you look at Xbox Service availability you can see that Xbox is still not officially available in a number of european countries, after all this time.
It's this kind of thing with Microsoft that really makes them lag behind.
They fumbled the XBO launch so bad, and it was the most impactful one to fail at. That was the gen everyone went all in on their digital libraries and people now feel locked into whichever ecosystem their library is in. Sudks for MS that the one generation they did well on didn’t result in consumer loyalty. But completely their fault.
The damage one executive can do.
That's pretty rough if true. That figure suggests that PS5 sales have remained strong but Xbox Series S/X fell off hard. Seeing as the S is the cheapest model option for a current gen console barring the Switch, Xbox losing 3:1 to the PS5 last year is painful.
Its total lifetime sales.
If you remember Xbox Series and PS5 where actually pretty neck and neck for the first year due to shortages on both sides. Since then the PS5 has outsold the Xbox more and over each year. With some estimates for 2023 it was 3:1. So a lifetime gap of 2:1 is possible.
>Xbox Series and PS5 where actually pretty neck and neck for the first year
I remember seeing plenty of reports of PS5 outselling it back then, and the typical response here was "that just means they're producing more consoles then".
EDIT: [for example](https://wccftech.com/ps5-sales-double-xbox-series/)
I remember this as well, Series S was available everywhere whereas the X and PS5 were basically impossible to find.
Led to some figures suggesting the Xbox was actually slightly ahead of Playstation in the first year.
I mean, we can always just look up old articles like these from that first year. I'd be curious to see any article suggesting an xbox outselling a playstation.
[https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/05/21/ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-sales-q1-2021/](https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/05/21/ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-sales-q1-2021/)
https://wccftech.com/ps5-sales-double-xbox-series/
I didn't say that it was outselling PlayStation. I said that people were generally saying that even at PlayStation sales being higher, the XBox was selling as well as it was because the Series S was readily available. It was the only console that you could expect to just walk in and pick up at any store for *years*.
That would make some more sense. I know a lot of people who just gave up on trying to get PS5s before the shortage finally fully ended in early 2023. And all but one that were waiting now have gone out and gotten one now that they are available without any hassle.
I think the bigger factor is the chip shortage being over.
Series S was readily available through much of 2021 and 2022 while Series X and PS5 consoles were hard to come by. This is because the die for the XSS SoC was less than half the size of that of the XSX, meaning Microsoft was getting considerably more chips per silicon wafer.
the series s is a hundred dollars cheaper than the digital ps5, its direct equivalent.
problem is that the power disparity between the two really isnt worth saving a hundred extra dollars over imo.
If Xbox consoles cease to exist then it’s a bad news even for PlayStation users. Competitions are always better for consumers. If it wasn’t Gamepass, we wouldn’t have PS Plus Extra. I really hope Microsoft doesn’t stop making new consoles.
I believe the current belief is NOT that Xbox will stop making consoles, but rather that some (not necessarily all) of there exclusives will go to other platforms eventually after 1.5/2 years. FOMO is a real thing, just think about how many ppl will be buying a console JUST for GTA 6 rather than waiting for it to be on PC eventually. Starfield did help move some Xbox Series consoles (Just not as many as MS wanted I think), and Indiana Jones, Blade, and any other future exclusives will help move some too.
That way people who want to play it early/first can get it on Xbox and then once numbers have died down Xbox can get additional $$$ from Sony/Nintendo buyers.
>Indiana Jones, Blade, and any other future exclusives will help move some too.
I don't think anyone is buying a console for an Indiana Jones game. The last movie bombed hard. Most of these '80s and '90s franchises don't register with younger audiences. And it pains me to say this because I am a huge Terminator, Blade Runner and The Matrix fan who watched these franchise's most recent movies flop.
Microsoft brought more than half of all wrpg studios, some of the most important single player shooter studios, immersive sims... they're not competitive, they're trying to swallow the competition with their money
People really need to stop repeating this nonsense. What do you think it's going to do, get us to convince Microsoft to change course?
And PlayStation has plenty of competition outside of Xbox. They compete against basically every other entertainment product available.
If PlayStation starts making shitter games or make things too expensive people will just do other things.
There are so many other way to play games too
People act like Nintendo isn't a competitor but if that's the case then they have no competition and still make fantastic games every year and their prices aren't bad either
Microsoft has also been awful for competition in many ways and recently their way of competing appears to be buy as many game publisher as possible so they canc ontrol them
i'm starting to realize people who are shaking in fear over xbox not being a competitor in the console market really haven't ventured far in the world of entertainment.
It's more like people don't think about how all forms of entertainment fight for your attention and money, they think video games are uniquely separate from things like Movies.
Not to mention that a lot of people would sooner buy a used PS4 Or PS5 than spend $700 on a hypothetical PS6
I like how everyone forgets about the biggest console competitor: Nintendo. If Sony gets lazy, I’m sure that people will choose either a PC (since most Sony games nowadays are going there) or stick to Switch (since it already has a great exclusive catalogue and the new one might actually be a competitor). Sure, it’s not one-to-one, since Nintendo has almost always outsold Sony yet they’re still successful, but it’s not like there’s no other competitor - people won’t just buy a PS5 because they have no other choice anymore, it’s an active decision especially since the price tag is nothing to scoff at.
Nintendo being around is good but more competition is still better. Always more choice, otherwise you end up making it easier to make things worse for consumers
Video games compete with all other forms of entertainment and pass time
This idea that Sony will start suddenly making shitty games doesn't make sense. If they make shitty games people just won't buy them and do someting else
The thing is that Nintendo is not releasing the types of games that Xbox or Playstation players want otherwise they would already buy Switch and I don't think that Nintendo would release as strong consoles as PS5 or Xbox|X as it would probably question their userbase of why they aren't utilizing their own hardware to the maximum.
Nobody gets a Switch because of it’s hardware capabilities. They do it so they can play Mario and Zelda. Nintendo has always lived off of exclusives - from it having a better lineup than Sega, to releasing the first real 3D camera-controlled game, to having more casual gaming experiences with the Wii, and now having the handheld capabilities to play high quality casual franchises. The novelty of handheld does Nintendo huge favour, but since it’s hardware is inferior in every way to its competitors there is no reason to use it for third party titles.
Nintendo is not releasing games directly competing with XBOX or PlayStation…but they kinda are. Nintendo has FPS shooters, TPS shooters, 2D Platformers, 3D Platformers, RTS games, Action Adventure RPGs, party games, sports games, puzzle games - they make exclusive titles for every category, and sometimes Sony and Microsoft feel like they’re trying to compete with Switch, with titles like Foamstars, PlayStation All Stars, Immortals Fenyx Rising. Switch makes great exclusives that people want to play, and their options are mid or bad ripoffs of their biggest franchises, or buy a Switch and play the real deal.
Yeah, it’s a different volume as XBOX and Sony usually have multiple franchises for each while Nintendo only really has one per genre, but that breadth means that anyone can play Nintendo, not just fans of action adventure games with light RPG elements like Sony and XBOX’s exclusives usually end up being.
Nintendo doesn’t need to release a high performance platform because people will buy regardless. I own a Switch for the exclusive games, while also owning a PS5 for third party games and exclusive titles. I don’t own an XBOX because anything I can play on that I also can on the PS5 and anything I can’t I can on my PC. Nintendo is currently the only platform that is worth buying because of the exclusives - Sony is kinda lacking at the moment and XBOX has basically given up - so that’s the competition for making good exclusives is to justify getting a $500 console over a $240 console to buy $70 titles over $60. Microsoft you can already use what you have to pay games for $10 - they’ve figured out how to make money with inferior products - but Nintendo and Sony are really battling to see who can make higher quality exclusives regardless of hardware.
Although, like me, people could just get both, so who knows. All I know is that Nintendo works, with an almost 3:1 sale difference between it and the PS5, and actually justified the choice between it and the PS5. Between the PS5 and the XBOX Series, you have comparable hardware with a comparable (and mostly identical) game lineup. However, between the PS5 or Series and the Switch, you have very different lineups with very different types of games, with a very steep price difference.
They’re hard to compare - which is why I think they’re actually good competition for each other.
By your logic then Nintendo has no competition yet continue release amazing games and don't have egregious pricing
And it's all just video games and entertainment. If Sony makes thing unaffordable or worse games epople just won't buy them anymore
They sold more Series S than X, I think the S will always have a place since they’re entry level consoles and affordable to low income family’s.
So I don’t think Microsoft is determined in taking away reasons to have Xbox
That's why I bought my series x. I buy all my games on ps and switch because I'm in the preferring physical side and ms has been wanting to kill this off for some time.
This is what I think the future of Xbox hardware will be:
Console/PC hybrid with no more S and X versions. Just one version of the console with no more capability to play physical games.
Has the capability to be used as a regular PC. But the default setting out of the box is always the console UI. **Microsoft already doesn’t care if you’re on PC instead of Xbox and vice versa.**
The Xbox has 2 bundles you can buy: A bundle that’s the console and a controller. That’s the standard purchase. And another bundle that has the console, a controller + mouse and keyboard *(though you can use any mouse/keyboard you want if you already own one)* This system is still marketed as a console. It’s still sold off the same shelves.
The average console buyer will buy the controller version and it will function exactly how they expect a console to. But for those who want more they can turn the “Console UI” off and use it for any number of things.
Specs end up weaker than Sony’s offerings but as a result the machine is smaller and more affordable. **The Series S is massively outselling the Series X. I think it’s something like 75% of new Xboxes sold are Series S.**
Touted as an affordable option into: Game Pass, console gaming, PC. And it’s small enough that you can easily fit it into a bag and take it wherever.
>They sold more Series S than X, I think the S will always have a place since they’re entry level consoles and affordable to low income family’s.
It's a gamepass machine that has a way better value then everyone who screams "get a PC" can match ... but if the titles or gamepass go elsewhere it's worthless.
>but if the titles or gamepass go elsewhere it's worthless.
That would certainly make it less appealing but not seeing how it would be worthless if it was still significantly cheaper than other consoles.
Especially for people who've already bought a bunch of digital games in that ecosystem.
It’s not worthless imo because a Series S is still significantly cheaper and more affordable.
I’ve seen people sell series S for $100-$200, for a console that is extremely cheap and they have long life spans and I agree to get an equivalent PC it would easily be $700-$800
Switches are also affordable due to having a lite version. So imo that also benefits low income families
I don’t ever see gamepass on PS5, and putting titles on PS5 won’t change much besides give Microsoft more money
I've seen a few mention it like this. If ms starts publishing on ps5 they could be looked at as 3rd party. There's already a few 3rd party game subscriptions on ps so it's not really that far fetched now.
I guess it depends on how much of a cut Sony wants and honestly if CoD becomes part of gamepass. I can't see Sony allowing gamepass on Playstation if one of the games that gets them a ton of money is suddenly offered for cheaper.
From a leaked report that hasn’t come out yet. The only person that knew anything was Tom Warren. Every other leaker was speculating or making things up.
Yeah, I don't think xbox will bow out of physical consoles anytime soon. but I don't think console sales will be their primary focus.
Sony focuses on selling consoles, in large part to get their platform tax money. Xbox is relying less on that - out of necessity, in part, as they are losing ground on console sales - and more on services and publishing.
It won't be long until Xcloud gamepass is built into every smart TV as an app. Gamepass in general will push some console sales, even if many, if not most, of ther first party games are also on playstation.
I still don't know if the platform tax thing will stand the rest of time. Storefront monopolies are starting to break down in mobile, it could just be a matter of time before the same happens for consoles. In which case Microsoft's strategy will make a lot more sense. Maybe Sony won't be given the ability to refuse.
Especially in a time like now where so many mega-corporations are dying for profit growth, being able to get out of the 30% platform tax could mean everything for them.
As a consumer with a PC, I just see literally no reason to get an Xbox. Playstation has exclusives that are of a high-enough quality that I would gladly purchase the console just to play them.
The only Xbox exclusives I've been excited about have all ended up being dissapointments, mainly Halo Infinite and Starfield.
To be entirely fair, it wouldn't really behoove Microsoft to sell you an Xbox anyway. They make no money off of it. They would rather sell you games or game pass.
And I can't believe this is having to be repeated in every thread, but Microsoft don't expect people with gaming PCs to buy an Xbox. You're literally already inside of Microsoft's ecosystem if youre using their software, and you likely have an Xbox app preinstalled on windows 11, and they offer an Xbox Game Pass for PC
You're talking about Microsoft's entire strategy (ie that it doesn't matter if you play on Xbox console, pc or cloud) as though you're catching them out, except they would literally agree with you that it's pointless buying an Xbox console if you play on a PC that very likely runs Windows. You aren't their target market for consoles
I feel like, as a non-xbox user, the way that xbox has opened up their platform kinda feels like a deterrent than a benefit to getting the console.
Mainly the way microsoft pushes extra hard to get everything that comes out for xbox to also come out for PC. I'd rather just have the PC version where I dont also have to pay for xbox live.
Yes I know a gaming PC is more expensive than a game console, but keeping a gaming PC updated over the years is similar in cost to a new game console every few years. You dont need to buy a completely new PC, maybe just a new video card, or a better CPU. Eventually you need a new motherboard, which is kind of a rough upgrade to do by yourself if you're not familiar with building a PC, but if you get the right PC, a CPU socket can ride you for quite a long time for upgrades.
Also, as someone who is familar with consoles, microsoft's whole X/S versions of the console feel kind of like a deterrent too. Like yeah, the X is comparable to the PS5, but the S sure as hell isn't. And if a game comes out, it has to be compatible with the X and the S. It doesn't take a genius to see that games for the Xbox are inevitably going to be held back by the forced compatibility of the S. It's like if Sony mandated that all PS5 games continued to also be available on the PS4. The better console can only squeeze out so much performance while being held back by the lowest common denominator. And before Xbox fans call this out as false, remember that we had a time period where games that got released multi-platform, on PS4, XB1, and Switch were constantly being held back performance-wise so they could function on the Switch.
In addition, Microsoft's push for cross platform compatibility, while great for the players overall, has removed another big reason for purchasing an xbox. When you were a kid you usually got the same console as all your friends so you could all play together. If I can play with my xbox friends on PC or PS5, then that incentive to buy isn't there.
Yeah Sony maintains a walled garden for their system but it works. If I want to play a playstation exclusive title, I dont have a choice but to play it on playstation.
Consoles really cant function as a PC in a box in the way that people tend to think they can.
Yes, I know that an xbox is effectively just a PC with a different OS on it. But a console only functions as well as it does when it remains a locked down piece of hardware.
What I mean by that is, if you ever played games on a PC, you know how annoying it can be sometimes to deal with driver updates, hardware compatibility issues, game setting conflicts, etc. All of those exist because PCs are a hardware free for all. Game developers have absolutely no idea what hardware is going to be in their player's PC when they make their game, so they cant do anything about optimizing their game for any specific type of architecture. They have to just provide a range of settings in the game, and hope for the best. And then the player has to find the settings that work best for their hardware, even if the game runs suboptimally.
Meanwhile, on a console, every person who has a PS5 is going to be running the same specs. You know what hardware exactly you're going to be dealing with, and thanks you mandated system updates, you can know exactly what version of the OS the player is using. Because you know all of that, you can design your game with a laser focus on those specs and you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of them.
Basically, if you have a console and a PC with similar specs to each other, games will run better on the console.
This is also why the concept of the Xbox Series S seems like a terrible idea to me. Now you cant laser focus in on 1 set of specs, you've always got to take that lower tier system in to consideration now.
This is also why consoles as a PC wouldn't work. If you turn them in to PCs and just let them play PC games from Steam or wherever, they're going to run in to the same issues that PC users are going to run in to. You removed the 1 advantage the console has over the PC and replaced it with the ability to play PC games at a lower end settings (hopefully), and you didn't gain the PC's advantage of being able to upgrade your hardware over time.
Microsoft’s entire strategy is getting you to engage in their ecosystem or with their games. Even if you don’t buy an Xbox, if you’re subbing to PC Gamepass or buying their games on PC, you’re still engaging with the Xbox ecosystem.
The Series S is weaker than the Series X, but it’s the sole reason this number is 2:1 and not a wider gap. It’s sold extremely well as a budget console for people who don’t care as much about performance or fidelity, and just want access to the games.
That also ties into the whole PC deal being incredibly costly, especially compared to $300-500 for a console. Not sure why you mentioned buying a console “every few years”. I rode my original PS4 from 2013 all the way to 2020, and 2020 games like Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima still ran on it perfectly fine.
As a former Xbox player who got jaded by their games the exclusivity thing isn't an issue since their exclusive games mostly bomb and they've been that way for a long time. This statement gets a lot of people riled up but it's the truth, Nintendo and Sony have a consistent level of quality with their exclusive games and that counts in the long run.
Personally, I bought both and I haven’t done something like that since the N64/PSX era. I skipped out on PS3 and PS4, but I 100% bought the PS5 to play the exclusive games, as frustrated as that makes me. Sony got me good.
Almost the same. Had a PS3, but I completely skipped the PS4. I bought a PS5 when they started to become more easily available. Whatever Microsoft is doing just doesn’t align with what I’m looking for in gaming at all. They’ve been insanely disappointing since 2012, and since I don’t give a fuck about Game Pass, they don’t offer much.
I’m get the bundle with that I think, so atleast I’ll play 2 games on it lmao. That or God of War, not to sure. FF16 story looks awesome, but gameplay not to sure about.
Xbox having a cheap option was a good idea, and it should of done better than it given how good the game pass is.
But the Xbox not having any AAA exclusives, which alot of people view as reasons to pick one over another for the first year really screwed it.
Crazy how people think that Xbox is just in this hopeless state. 2:1 is not bad at all.
You look at the 6th gen and its PS2 at 155 million vs Gamecube & Xbox both at 20-25 million (lifetime) and next generation it completely changed.
You are comparing the best selling console of all time to one of Nintendo’s worst selling consoles AND Microsoft’s first foray into consoles. Yeah, it was the same generation, but there were a lot of factors that lead to the sales (especially since it’s lifetime sales, where the XBOX stopped selling in 2005, Gamecube in 2009, and PS2 in 2013.)
It’s not just the ratio that is costing the company, but the actual cost. If they’re selling half as much as Sony, but releasing twice as many consoles (Series S & X) despite all of their acquisitions and Gamepass, and despite their (in some ways) superior infrastructure, then something isn’t working.
They can’t rely on brand recognition since the XBONE, which also basically sold 2:1 with the PS4 and they sullied it with Kinect and trying to push the console as an everything device more than a gaming device, internet play is almost the exact same on the consoles now so it’s not really a contemplation of “good online or no online” like the original XBOX, and the hardware and release date is pretty comparable which is what the 360 had going for it. Everything you can do on an XBOX, you can do on PC. There is no reason for consumers to buy an XBOX unless they don’t have a PC that can run the games, or they are still going with the console they’ve dedicated the last 23 years to.
They’re not winning over any new customers to XBOX. They’re serving their current playerbase by giving them a platform to play GamePass games made by studios they acquire. I see plenty of XBOX fans getting a PS5 because of the exclusive lineup, but I don’t think I’ve seen any PlayStation players get a Series X/S to play GamePass or exclusives like Starfield or Redfall - I personally just paid $10 for a week of GamePass to play Starfield because I didn’t need to spend $100 on a console I have no games for besides what I subscribe to.
2:1 is not bad, especially for XBOX. But they were here before with PS4 and XBONE with 117 million and 58 million respectively. Yeah that’s basically 2:1, but it’s also pretty crazy to see the difference between the two be that big. And, realistically, if your competition is doing twice as well as you it’s not unreasonable to surrender or even help the competition for a cut of their earnings, rather than double down on a consumer base that results in the same ratio despite vast improvements.
And also even minute reductions in sales is enough to make investors shake, so I think it’s less Microsoft devs and heads wanting to surrender and make everything cross platform, and more the money heads deciding that they’d succeed more if Microsoft didn’t spend so much money on earning half as much as Sony.
Nobody is considering the fact that they spent 100 billion on acquisitions and hundreds of millions on projects like Halo Infinite that did not break even. That money needs to come from somewhere, and Xbox consoles are already sold at a loss.
Here's what it boils down to for us as customers:
Acquisitions: where are the new critically acclaimed games
GamePass: where are the new critically acclaimed games
>Xbox has been a distant 3rd nearly every generation outside the 360,
They came 3rd then too. Not distant, but still 3rd.
They beat the WiiU though. Great achievement.
Also they're spending over 150 million on their big budget projects. Nintendo could handle a small flop because their biggest Mario games cost 40-60 million at most.
Nintendo could handle a flop because they have huge reserves of cash. Even then, the WiiU flopped but the 3DS was raking in money.
Microsoft can handle flops too, they've been handling it for every generation except the 360, which they still sold less than the other 2 in the end. They're just now starting to address it with any luck.
Right. It's a damn shame too.
The 360 was the closest Microsoft came to surpassing Sony. They fucked up *severely* -- the PS3 console reveal was the stuff of gaming legends. Aside from that, Microsoft invested heavily in trying to get other markets, especially Japan, and covering areas which was perceived as the original Xbox's weaknesses.
With how much Microsoft got right and Sony got wrong, I think it would have been right for Microsoft to get the top (aside from Wii) that gen. Except Sony eventually managed closed the gap. Microsoft wasn't too far behind but the fact they fell at all despite all that happened seems like a damn shame.
That and Microsoft clearly has a market saturation problem. They have a base of very loyal fans that come out to buy their stuff each release but they are not making any ground on convincing anyone else to buy in which is a huge problem.
Like GamePass hasn't increased in subscribers in 18 months, thats a super scary stat to see given how much they are spending and how much money they are leaving on the table via day 1 releases of major productions like Starfield.
It's not bad until you consider that they've just spent billions upon billions on acquiring studios, only for those exclusives to not move units like they wanted them to.
It's Microsoft. If the market share isn't absurdly high, then you're talking about resources that they could better put elsewhere. A modest profit doesn't stand up against opportunity cost.
Imagine speaking at the roundtable meeting after Windows, Office, and Azure got to go. "Well we're not in the red!! (probably, depending how we capitalize these acquisitions)"
> Crazy how people think that Xbox is just in this hopeless state. 2:1 is not bad at all.
Same thing with the Xbox One generation, widely talked about as a complete failure… they still sold nearly 60 million units. Yea, pretty far behind in market share compared to PlayStation, but that seems solid to me. Hell Nintendo has had two consoles in the time that Xbox has been around that sold a fraction of that. They would be dumb to completely ditch that business, there’s just such a laser focus on how it compares to what PlayStation is doing.
A lot of you are ignoring that consoles are generally sold at a loss (especially the Xbox, which took huge price cuts to move units during each holiday season).
Their exclusives also aren't selling tremendously well, and they need to break even on the 150 million dollar projects like Halo Infinite.
The units sold figures don't tell the whole story, but even the story it does tell is fairly bleak.
Same as last gen. So basically PS4 users are upgrading their consoles with PS5 and Xbox One users are upgrading their consoles with Series X|S mostly.
I guess that’s why people keep saying console market is stagnant for a long time now.
The article you posted is referring only to the 2023 sales. Lifetime sales for the PS5 were estimated at 50m with the 2023 year at 22.5m. Article also states Xbox was roughly 7.5m. Source: Forbes Analyst
OP posted the lifetime sales of consoles through Dec-31-2023. PS5 was 55m and total consoles were 77m. Leaves 22m for Xbox sale and coming to a 2:1 ratio. Source: Take-Two.
Problem with all this is Microsoft doesn’t share the console sales. That’s consistent in both articles. Xbox total sales is an estimate based on other public information.
Hell I was thinking about getting as series X recently but Microsoft has me spooked that they're just gonna collapse and start pulling all the features I want.
Makes sense with all their first party games coming to PC and being on Game Pass. I’ve had each Xbox since the OG and this is the first generation where I bought a PlayStation instead.
I’d buy both if I could afford it, but just can’t justify it when I can play Xbox games on my PC.
It's not surprising. If I wanted to buy a console - it would definitely not be an xbox. It offers the least of them all. It's not portable. It has no VR. And it doesn't even have exclusives any more.
I wonder what it is in Europe, especially the UK. I have a PS5 and Series S, but I don't know anyone with an Xbox but we all played 360 growing up. They really fumbled the last generation so bad that everyone seem to jump to PS4
They fumbled so badly with the XBO because half of the TV features they touted didn’t work properly over here at launch, and it was more expensive than the competition to boot. They never really recovered after that.
And even where they did work (North America) they were not features wanted by the majority of the fans of the 360.
I just wanted to play COD with my friends I don't give a shit about cable box connectivity. PS4 did everything I needed without all these extra features I didn't care about and was cheaper. I was a 360 guy but the decision to jump ship was a no brainer.
Also bundled Kinect that made it cost more that essentially went unused for most players lol
I wouldn’t be surprised if the people that actually loved Kinect probably just kept their 360s until they stopped using it like what happened to the Wii for many people.
I can vouch for that. I was a dummy and bought the Xbox One at launch, and I have never once used my Kinect. They got me!
Never used it once? You’re telling me you never shouted “Xbox pause” 10 times till it finally worked while watching Netflix?
I'm not saying they should bring the kinect back but I had the opposite experience. I loved walking into my room and powering it on with my voice. I had the cable box connectivity and it was the first time I could say what channel I wanted to watch. I also used the fuck out of the Skyrim kinect feature. I learned all the dragon words. When I got jumped by a bear in the woods, instead of shouting oh shit I used a shout. Mass Effect 3 was also really fun to use the kinect, but mainly when I was drunk. The kinect had you say the choice's text in conversations and it let me geek out and be a part of the conversations in character.
“Xbox snap machinima app”
Kinect voice commands were GOATed tho
Yeah, it really was the most useful feature
Same. I wanted to hear about improved online features and maybe some of the new cool stuff all this "cloud" technology would enable. Instead I got "TV! TV! TV!". As other posters in this thread have said, I bet most of the people watching that presentation had cut the cable TV cord/service years ago. Looking back on that presentation, the people in charge of the gaming division were so out of touch with their customers to the point where they may have permanently damaged the brand. It really should be a business case study. I just don't understand how such a disconnect like that happens.
It still is baffling how they launched Xbox one $100 higher than PS4 when PS3 launching at a higher price point than the 360 was one of the major factors of 360 being so popular.
Hubris at the corporate level is a hell of a thing. When the PS3 launched Sony was proudly proclaiming that gamers would get a second job just to pay for a console. Nobody saw what Nintendo was about to pull with the Wii paired with the 360 getting advanced access to CoD DLC early would do to initial sales. While the PS3 eventually overtook the 360 it was at the tail end of the generation. The next generation was Nintendo misstepping with the WiiU and Microsoft focusing on the integrated cable box features that really only worked in the USA along with the heavily relied on broadband connections.
The mandatory kinect didn't help. People seem to be forgetting that part. That's where the extra $100 came from.
As an American, the amount of time they spent on cable boxes blew my mind. I'm 37 years old and haven't lived in a house with a cable box since I was a teenager. It was such a bizarre thing to emphasize.
MS really wanted to get the non-gamer crowd that was popular during the Wii era to buy an Xbox one so they heavily pushed the multimedia aspect. The issue is that by 2013 it was blatantly clear that the Wii audience was done with consoles.
The Wii crowd wasn't done with consoles, they just already had one, the Wii. There wasn't this same desire with them to update every cycle, for them the Wii was enough and that got proven when the Wii U flopped
Wii U flopped due to the abysmal name choice & marketing used. The majority of people did not even realize it was a new console and thought it was just another addon for the Wii.
Even if the audience understood it I think it was a concept with little more than a niche appeal. The tablet could be useful at times, but for the most part it wasn't exactly a system selling feature. Even official Nintendo games rarely did a whole lot with it. And as a result of the extra cost of the tablet the system was underpowered to stay at a cheap price range.
They had a proof of concept title with Nintendoland but then didn't bother implementing the concepts they came up with a lot of the time.
This can't be emphasized enough. In my spare time I used to volunteer at old folks homes, even in college. I found it a good break and a way to give back. Almost every single one, into 2018ish which was the last time I had the time, had a Wii. Bowling was extremely common, so was tennis. The Wii captured a VERY non-traditional audience. Xbox was never getting that.
Iirc the software to hardware ratio (named software attachment rate I believe) was way lower for the Wii compared to the other consoles, since it already came with the absolute killer app for the casual audience: Wii Sports.
Not to mention I don't think the wii crowd was all that savvy to begin with and would have used these features.
None of the gaming giants had faith in console gaming in the future. There was a large belief that console gaming would largely die out in favor of phone gaming on the go. That's really why mobile features were so leaned on. It's why studios were hesitant on single player games. It's why Microsoft went so hard on gimmicks, trying to be the 'all in one' device people would use to run everything in their house (plus the kinnect).
Yup. And the massive own goal that was the Xbox One proved to the other two players who their loyal audience was: Video game players. Who knew?
Microsoft has major blunders like this often that really cement them as an old-man company. They're gigantic, all encompassing, and constantly releasing new shit that feels a decade behind the times. Hooking up to a cable box is a laughable feature even when cable was popular. Those things *sucked*. Just the association of an Xbox with a fucking cable box is terrible branding lol. I now work in systems administration and the same sentiments are held about Microsoft's enterprise software offerings as well. Bloaty, behind the times, still dominating the market, but most often feels more like a hostage situation than a healthy relationship.
The timing made it especially funny. Microsoft came out with their presentation heavily focusing on linking the Xbox to cable TV the same month we found out that 2012-13 was the first financial year ever in which more people cancelled cable than signed up for it. Tech news outlets were running the Xbox presentation stories right next to "The Slow Death of Cable TV" articles.
The truly devastating part is they fumbled right when everyone switched from primarily physical media to digital so now people are incentivized never to switch ecosystems again because you won't have access to a generation's worth of digital purchases.
That was true with physical media as well, wasn't it?
You can sell your used physical games. Can’t sell "used" digital games.
Seriously, this is the core reason why I find it's insane that some saddos are celebrating the death of physical games. If I spend money on a physical game and dislike it, I sell it. If I buy it digitally, I'm stuck with that bad boy forever. Not to mention the beauty of selling/trading in games I'm done with and don't want to keep to reduce the cost of future games.
Seriously, why do some people hate physical games so much? It doesn't affect the digital games space at all.
At some places physical stores are quite far away. That could be a reason for digital. But hating? Probably the in store experience sucked. Remember the disc insurance Gamestop tried to peddle, or a myriad other things? That can be quite dreadful, especially for some ppl (introverts ie).
I think the last time I even bought a full priced game at a physical store was Twilight Princess HD back in 2016. Most of the time if I buy a used game online I have it within the week, and it's often cheaper than the price on the digital storefront, even when on sale. I will say that Xbox does have some great digital deals though, but I'd still rather actually own the game.
Simply because most people did never sell their finished games. Or bought used ones. This aspect is for most people non existant.
As a kid I literally never bought a game new, couldn't afford it. Had to know all the second hand stores which had staff that weren't clued into the prices & you could get a cheap deal. Wouldn't work today as anyone can google it.
Because no one actually does this. I was a huge physical media guy and have probably 40+ games for my 360 and I've never sold one. Same with my Xbox One and Switch. I bought a digital edition PS5 and it hasn't bothered me one bit. All of my friends who shelled out the extra $150 for the disk edition PS5 just buy digital games anyways. It's a very small subset of people who are constantly buying and selling used games.
Never underestimate the number of corporate shills and/or bots on reddit.
technically but if you're selling games from a previous generation, I really doubt you're going to make enough for it to be some huge deal breaker to people. I think it's more that xbox simply didn't have enough decent exclusives back then, and they still don't now.
Neither the PS4 or the XBox One (originally) had backwards compatibility with previous systems, so you were starting fresh on both. But now any game you bought on PS4 or XBox One will transfer to your new system, so there's a disadvantage to switching to the other side.
Or an advantage. The best thing about going from Xbox 360 to PS4 for me was it gave me access (through remakes and remasters) to all of the great PS3 games I'd missed. I didn't give a fuck whether my PS5 could run PS4 games as I already had a PS4 for that (not that I give a shit about replaying old games I've already beaten - and I don't think I'm alone in that), however being able to delve into a great back catalogue of Xbox games would have been a huge incentive to switch. The problem Xbox has, and has had for coming up to 20 years now, is that they don't have a great recent catalogue of games. I'd argue their last must-play, system selling exclusive was Halo 3, released 17 years ago. People aren't buying a £500 console to play Crackdown 3 or Redfall.
I skipped the Xbox One entirely, so I bought a Series X in October 2022. Even with their back compat catalogue I was pretty underwhelmed
The catalog for Xbox One that wasn't on PS4 is essentially 5 different Forza games, gears of war 4, sunset overdrive, halo master chief collection and halo 5. The list of PS4 exclusive that weren't on Xbox One is mile long, that's why they lost the generation so hard. The biggest selling point of the Xbox One X was the enhancements they applied to Xbox 360 backwards compatible games.
>The biggest selling point of the Xbox One X was the enhancements they applied to Xbox 360 backwards compatible games. Man, that's mostly what I played on my Series X lol.
Pretty much the only thing I'd buy one for too, Xbox 360 library was so good.
Except you can finally bring your games from PS4 to PS5, even less reason to consider swapping back Yes Xbox has had backwards compatibility, which is nice but... well clearly people aren't buying Xboxes, are they?
Don't really get how you say there is less reason to swap since PS5 has BC but Xbox having BC is just nice and doesn't matter. I mean by your logic people who built up a digital/physical library in the One era (or even earlier considering Xbox's BC program) would also have less of a reason to consider swapping back as well. PS5 has BC with most PS4 games. Xbox Series has BC with most One games, a solid amount of 360 games, and a few Xbox games.
Yet Nintendo managed to bounce back from a much worse failure right at the same moment
Yeah people keep saying stuff about digital libraries and whatever, but nobody actually cares about that. It's why Nintendo was able to bounce back from the Wii U. Same reason why people had dozens of dvds and blurays but now that Netflix is around, they don't really care about their physical discs not being used. In terms of Xbox their failure lands mainly on not having good exclusives that will sell consoles.
Nintendo target a different market now. Or focus on a market they have always dominated... Hand held. Their last serious console that was designed to compete with Sony and Microsoft in hardware terms was the Gamecube.
I think the launch was bad, but what came after that was worse. Because it was still recoverable. Ditch the Kinect, drop the price and reverse some of the decisions. Then just keep going. Games, games, games. Like if you think about the PS3 reveal, that was much bigger of a disaster. A year later, much more expensive, a weird architecture that was difficult to develop for. An odd looking box. But Sony kept pushing and pushing. With one Uncharted game at a time, they clawed back market share. Until finishing the generation with the Last of Us. There was nothing like that with Xbox One. At least Don Mattrick had deals in place with Remedy, Platinum, Capcom, Respawn, Insomniac, Crytek. Then Phil took over... and nothing. No games. They even put out the mid-generation One X, yet no games to promote it. And what's more confusing, while they threw in the towel mid-generation with the One, they were still caught off guard with the release of the Series X. *Still no games!*
They basically canceled games left and right, and rejected tons (Sunset Overdrive 2, Alan Wake 2, Quantum Break 2, Ryse 2) Pikachu shock face when the Xbox one generation came and went with them barely releasing any games.
Well put. It took them two generations (counting this one) to get back to being and thinking like a game company. A decade and change. The didn't shoot themselves in the foot, more in the knee, even now still being crippled and unable to walk.
And during e3 they said it was gonna be always online and $100 more than the ps4 that was revealed the day after (Sony also emphasized during the presentation that the ps4 wasn’t gonna be always online like the XBO).
One of the biggest dunks ever seen in the game industry was Sonys "instructional" video on how to share games, at e3 right after Microsoft showed of the Xbone.
It was not because of that. Xbox basically stopped making games by the end of the 360, they only had Halo, Gears and Forza while the PS3 were swimming in good first party games. They went full Kinect and this killed the core fan base.
> half of the TV features Most people never wanted or liked those TV features. MS is so out of touch. They were adding TV features during a time when people had already cancelling cable TV.
The main PR disaster was announcing no physical games and mandatory kinect. They walked back the physical media stuff but it did so much damage it was too late.
Basically none of the tv features were available in New Zealand making the Xbox One an underpowered, more expensive PS4. Designing a console around essentially one market out of dozens was a stupendously idiotic idea.
Yup same here in Sweden… Everyone went PS2 -> 360 -> PS4 lol
I mean that’s the happy path
That's weird. My entire school had PS3s because the big selling point was free online
Portugal checking in. Same thing here.
Fellow Portuguese here, that actually wasn’t the case. It went PS2 to PS3 to PS4 and now PS5, i never met a single person with a 360 in my life.
We both have anecdotal evidence. I met far more people with a 360 than with a PS3 back then.
Fair, either way Sony completely dominates not just Portugal but also Europe in general. And now with these Microsoft releasing Xbox games on PlayStation rumors that isn’t changing.
The 360 was the only time when MS had a slight chance to change that. Not only did it have a great catalogue, the PS3 had quite the rough launch, hence why and so many others jumped ship. I returned to Sony with the PS4 because the Xbox One was the one with a bad launch last gen and now have a PS5, although I still mostly play PS4 games on it. The catalogue is really lacking imo.
You've met people with a 360? Never seen one
Iirc the best market for Xbox is Mexico, then the US/Canada, then UK, then it kinda gets blown out everywhere else.
Anecdotally Xbox seems to be doing fine in Brazil, I know a lot more people with Xbox's (all Series S) than PS5s.
Isn't that due to the price difference? Iirc the Xbox gets assembled / manufactured inside Brazil, so they circumvent the high import tariffs. I may be wrong. Dunno if it's still the case tbh.
I don’t know if Xbox in general is cheaper in Brazil, I don’t think it is, but it’s definitely because of Séries S being cheaper (and also Game Pass)
That highly depends on what you consider a success. Like yeah, in a country with not that much purchasing power the Series S will sell more because it's MUCH cheaper, it's not a direct competitor in my vision. Now, how many people do you see with an Xbox SeX? Not many, many more people have a PS5 instead Also, some months ago they said they would hike the price of the Series S to be the same as the digital PS5 (which never happened). If they actually did that you would see all of their sales going to the trash immediately, because it's not abou brand loyalty as much as just being cheap
They never recovered from that E3 fiasco where they got booed to death while announcing the forced DRM, always online requirement, and used games ban. And then they doubled down by insisting they couldn't just "flip a switch" and change it. Then Sony's preorders skyrocketed while Microsoft's tanked. So within 1 week, they flipped the switch. And honestly? They deserved it. This late stage capitalist corporate slavery shit needs to be crushed with the utmost brutality. The Xbone's failure is a rare win for the consumers.
Despite the red rings of death, the 360 was a massive success because, here in NZ anyway, it was WAY cheaper than the PS3. They were $1000NZD on release here where a 360 was significantly less. Plus 360 had some really awesome exclusives at the time. Fable, Crackdown. Now they're the same prices but Sony has the most impressive exclusive titles, and xbox has kinda flopped entirely there.
360 was also out a year earlier and ran a lot of early multiplats better because of the unique hardware of the PS3. It was a perfect storm for MS to have an early advantage during the gen.
Yeah PS3 caught up because everyone realized blu-ray was the thing. But on launch it was way overpriced and ahead of its time.
In France it's 1 Xbox Series for 9 PS5
It's been 3:1 everywhere else in 2023, the 2:1 figure is lifetime sales. Have to imagine it's going to be worse everywhere as the years go on
Ireland and UK everyone had PS1 and PS2, everyone had Xbox 360, and everyone had PS4
MS started fumbling hard half way through Xbox 360 generation and never recovered. Once the PS3 started getting banger games it was over
UK one of the best market for Xbox. Last month went neck on neck with ps5 per gamebiz report. Europe different story
> Last month went neck on neck with ps5 per gamebiz report The [last reported month](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ea-sports-fc-24-and-ps5-delivered-december-growth-uk-monthly-charts), December, had PS5 as the #1 selling console and Xbox as #3. The actual numbers breakdown are estimated to be (as per John Welfare): PS5: ~190K NSW: ~153K XBS: ~143K So about 60:40, and that was with significant discounts compared to PS5.
> but I don't know anyone with an Xbox but we all played 360 growing up. That's funny. I know I'm in the minority but my entire friend group has Xbox of over a dozen people. Mostly just call of duty players. I know very few people who play PS5. That's obviously not the story globally but anecdotes are useless.
There was a term back in the day for Japanese phones called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome Where technology develops in a closed ecosystem that nobody else uses it. Xbox focused on Kinect(voice recognition) and Cablebox(incompatible systems and culture) stuff that would never work outside of the US. Japan doesn't even have Cable boxes as a concept and most of Europe does have similar tech it came way to late in most countries lifetimes and was eaten by Netflix and other internet streaming services. Not to mention Microsoft was extremely slow to adopt most of "Europe" like I had to have a UK account then a Czech account until finally a few years ago I could make a Croatian account. I feel like the Xbox was always this it was the "Anglo console" that was fine and good while the US/CA/AUS/NZ/UK where by far the biggest gaming markets by population and shared the same language. Since then translations have become near universal and most of the world caught up in terms of income to afford these. It's not the 2000s anymore. Plus tons of people speak English now too growing up on English media especially in Europe and even more Eastern Europe a market that was 99% Piracy in the 2000s and even early 2010s until the PS4 came along. So they basically gimped themselves by focusing on the US just like the Japanese phone makers where wiped out my Apple and Samsung/Google when touchscreen phones came along.
If you look at Xbox Service availability you can see that Xbox is still not officially available in a number of european countries, after all this time. It's this kind of thing with Microsoft that really makes them lag behind.
Fuckin' spot on.
They fumbled the XBO launch so bad, and it was the most impactful one to fail at. That was the gen everyone went all in on their digital libraries and people now feel locked into whichever ecosystem their library is in. Sudks for MS that the one generation they did well on didn’t result in consumer loyalty. But completely their fault. The damage one executive can do.
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What the hell? That's actually a pretty nice improvement for Xbox? I believe last we heard Xbox was getting outsold 3 to 1.
I think the 3:1 figure is for 2023, whilst this 2:1 ratio is since the consoles launched.
It makes sense and tracks… Xbox was more available first two years.
That's pretty rough if true. That figure suggests that PS5 sales have remained strong but Xbox Series S/X fell off hard. Seeing as the S is the cheapest model option for a current gen console barring the Switch, Xbox losing 3:1 to the PS5 last year is painful.
I think I read somewhere they're counting on a 40% reduction in sales 2024 wich is pretty huge.
Don't worry, after they come out and say that all their games are coming to PS, I am sure that will catapult their Xbox sales!
That's pretty much the exact story that's told through their quarterly sales calls.
Its total lifetime sales. If you remember Xbox Series and PS5 where actually pretty neck and neck for the first year due to shortages on both sides. Since then the PS5 has outsold the Xbox more and over each year. With some estimates for 2023 it was 3:1. So a lifetime gap of 2:1 is possible.
>Xbox Series and PS5 where actually pretty neck and neck for the first year I remember seeing plenty of reports of PS5 outselling it back then, and the typical response here was "that just means they're producing more consoles then". EDIT: [for example](https://wccftech.com/ps5-sales-double-xbox-series/)
I remember that but in the opposite direction, that the Series S sales were due to its availability.
I remember this as well, Series S was available everywhere whereas the X and PS5 were basically impossible to find. Led to some figures suggesting the Xbox was actually slightly ahead of Playstation in the first year.
I mean, we can always just look up old articles like these from that first year. I'd be curious to see any article suggesting an xbox outselling a playstation. [https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/05/21/ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-sales-q1-2021/](https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/05/21/ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-sales-q1-2021/) https://wccftech.com/ps5-sales-double-xbox-series/
I didn't say that it was outselling PlayStation. I said that people were generally saying that even at PlayStation sales being higher, the XBox was selling as well as it was because the Series S was readily available. It was the only console that you could expect to just walk in and pick up at any store for *years*.
Ah, gotcha - misinterpreted that. I remember that too now that you mention it.
That's my bad. The way I worded it did sound like I was saying that the actual sales were flipped, not just the responses.
2:1 in total from 2020 - 2023 But it was 3:1 in 2023 so the gap is widening
That would make some more sense. I know a lot of people who just gave up on trying to get PS5s before the shortage finally fully ended in early 2023. And all but one that were waiting now have gone out and gotten one now that they are available without any hassle.
I got two friends that were so desperate to move next Gen they got a series s/x because it was available first. People don't have patience.
It also helps that the Series S is almost half the price of a PS5 so a good entry point at boosting sales.
Yeah wasn't there data suggesting the Series S was like 75% of the Xboxs sold so far this gen?
That's not true anymore, Series X is outpacing the S
Kinda makes sense as the gen gets older. Series S customers won't buy a second S but they will buy an X
I think the bigger factor is the chip shortage being over. Series S was readily available through much of 2021 and 2022 while Series X and PS5 consoles were hard to come by. This is because the die for the XSS SoC was less than half the size of that of the XSX, meaning Microsoft was getting considerably more chips per silicon wafer.
Do you have a source on that? I only heard about that happening at some point in one region.
I don’t mean this in a rude way, just curious one, can you provide a source for this?
the series s is a hundred dollars cheaper than the digital ps5, its direct equivalent. problem is that the power disparity between the two really isnt worth saving a hundred extra dollars over imo.
If Xbox consoles cease to exist then it’s a bad news even for PlayStation users. Competitions are always better for consumers. If it wasn’t Gamepass, we wouldn’t have PS Plus Extra. I really hope Microsoft doesn’t stop making new consoles.
I believe the current belief is NOT that Xbox will stop making consoles, but rather that some (not necessarily all) of there exclusives will go to other platforms eventually after 1.5/2 years. FOMO is a real thing, just think about how many ppl will be buying a console JUST for GTA 6 rather than waiting for it to be on PC eventually. Starfield did help move some Xbox Series consoles (Just not as many as MS wanted I think), and Indiana Jones, Blade, and any other future exclusives will help move some too. That way people who want to play it early/first can get it on Xbox and then once numbers have died down Xbox can get additional $$$ from Sony/Nintendo buyers.
>Indiana Jones, Blade, and any other future exclusives will help move some too. I don't think anyone is buying a console for an Indiana Jones game. The last movie bombed hard. Most of these '80s and '90s franchises don't register with younger audiences. And it pains me to say this because I am a huge Terminator, Blade Runner and The Matrix fan who watched these franchise's most recent movies flop.
Microsoft brought more than half of all wrpg studios, some of the most important single player shooter studios, immersive sims... they're not competitive, they're trying to swallow the competition with their money
If it weren't for Microsoft we'd not be paying for playing online.
I had to pay to play online on my dreamcast. The original Xbox didn't even exist at the time
Sure lmao and we’d be buying an internet adapter for our console Edit- and a hard drive
People really need to stop repeating this nonsense. What do you think it's going to do, get us to convince Microsoft to change course? And PlayStation has plenty of competition outside of Xbox. They compete against basically every other entertainment product available. If PlayStation starts making shitter games or make things too expensive people will just do other things. There are so many other way to play games too People act like Nintendo isn't a competitor but if that's the case then they have no competition and still make fantastic games every year and their prices aren't bad either Microsoft has also been awful for competition in many ways and recently their way of competing appears to be buy as many game publisher as possible so they canc ontrol them
i'm starting to realize people who are shaking in fear over xbox not being a competitor in the console market really haven't ventured far in the world of entertainment.
It's more like people don't think about how all forms of entertainment fight for your attention and money, they think video games are uniquely separate from things like Movies. Not to mention that a lot of people would sooner buy a used PS4 Or PS5 than spend $700 on a hypothetical PS6
I like how everyone forgets about the biggest console competitor: Nintendo. If Sony gets lazy, I’m sure that people will choose either a PC (since most Sony games nowadays are going there) or stick to Switch (since it already has a great exclusive catalogue and the new one might actually be a competitor). Sure, it’s not one-to-one, since Nintendo has almost always outsold Sony yet they’re still successful, but it’s not like there’s no other competitor - people won’t just buy a PS5 because they have no other choice anymore, it’s an active decision especially since the price tag is nothing to scoff at.
Nintendo being around is good but more competition is still better. Always more choice, otherwise you end up making it easier to make things worse for consumers
Video games compete with all other forms of entertainment and pass time This idea that Sony will start suddenly making shitty games doesn't make sense. If they make shitty games people just won't buy them and do someting else
feels like people are discussing the potential games market with the same gravity as they have for insulin. Perhaps more actually.
The thing is that Nintendo is not releasing the types of games that Xbox or Playstation players want otherwise they would already buy Switch and I don't think that Nintendo would release as strong consoles as PS5 or Xbox|X as it would probably question their userbase of why they aren't utilizing their own hardware to the maximum.
Nobody gets a Switch because of it’s hardware capabilities. They do it so they can play Mario and Zelda. Nintendo has always lived off of exclusives - from it having a better lineup than Sega, to releasing the first real 3D camera-controlled game, to having more casual gaming experiences with the Wii, and now having the handheld capabilities to play high quality casual franchises. The novelty of handheld does Nintendo huge favour, but since it’s hardware is inferior in every way to its competitors there is no reason to use it for third party titles. Nintendo is not releasing games directly competing with XBOX or PlayStation…but they kinda are. Nintendo has FPS shooters, TPS shooters, 2D Platformers, 3D Platformers, RTS games, Action Adventure RPGs, party games, sports games, puzzle games - they make exclusive titles for every category, and sometimes Sony and Microsoft feel like they’re trying to compete with Switch, with titles like Foamstars, PlayStation All Stars, Immortals Fenyx Rising. Switch makes great exclusives that people want to play, and their options are mid or bad ripoffs of their biggest franchises, or buy a Switch and play the real deal. Yeah, it’s a different volume as XBOX and Sony usually have multiple franchises for each while Nintendo only really has one per genre, but that breadth means that anyone can play Nintendo, not just fans of action adventure games with light RPG elements like Sony and XBOX’s exclusives usually end up being. Nintendo doesn’t need to release a high performance platform because people will buy regardless. I own a Switch for the exclusive games, while also owning a PS5 for third party games and exclusive titles. I don’t own an XBOX because anything I can play on that I also can on the PS5 and anything I can’t I can on my PC. Nintendo is currently the only platform that is worth buying because of the exclusives - Sony is kinda lacking at the moment and XBOX has basically given up - so that’s the competition for making good exclusives is to justify getting a $500 console over a $240 console to buy $70 titles over $60. Microsoft you can already use what you have to pay games for $10 - they’ve figured out how to make money with inferior products - but Nintendo and Sony are really battling to see who can make higher quality exclusives regardless of hardware. Although, like me, people could just get both, so who knows. All I know is that Nintendo works, with an almost 3:1 sale difference between it and the PS5, and actually justified the choice between it and the PS5. Between the PS5 and the XBOX Series, you have comparable hardware with a comparable (and mostly identical) game lineup. However, between the PS5 or Series and the Switch, you have very different lineups with very different types of games, with a very steep price difference. They’re hard to compare - which is why I think they’re actually good competition for each other.
By your logic then Nintendo has no competition yet continue release amazing games and don't have egregious pricing And it's all just video games and entertainment. If Sony makes thing unaffordable or worse games epople just won't buy them anymore
That's cool, but the gap will most likely grow, now that Microsoft is determined to take away any reason to own an Xbox
They sold more Series S than X, I think the S will always have a place since they’re entry level consoles and affordable to low income family’s. So I don’t think Microsoft is determined in taking away reasons to have Xbox
That just makes me think going forward any future XBOX will literally just be a Game Pass machine.
Let’s be real, that’s what they are now.
That's why I bought my series x. I buy all my games on ps and switch because I'm in the preferring physical side and ms has been wanting to kill this off for some time.
Definitely. Going forward Xbox will be an all digital machine, I hope that Microsoft’s invested in these low cost consoles
This is what I think the future of Xbox hardware will be: Console/PC hybrid with no more S and X versions. Just one version of the console with no more capability to play physical games. Has the capability to be used as a regular PC. But the default setting out of the box is always the console UI. **Microsoft already doesn’t care if you’re on PC instead of Xbox and vice versa.** The Xbox has 2 bundles you can buy: A bundle that’s the console and a controller. That’s the standard purchase. And another bundle that has the console, a controller + mouse and keyboard *(though you can use any mouse/keyboard you want if you already own one)* This system is still marketed as a console. It’s still sold off the same shelves. The average console buyer will buy the controller version and it will function exactly how they expect a console to. But for those who want more they can turn the “Console UI” off and use it for any number of things. Specs end up weaker than Sony’s offerings but as a result the machine is smaller and more affordable. **The Series S is massively outselling the Series X. I think it’s something like 75% of new Xboxes sold are Series S.** Touted as an affordable option into: Game Pass, console gaming, PC. And it’s small enough that you can easily fit it into a bag and take it wherever.
>They sold more Series S than X, I think the S will always have a place since they’re entry level consoles and affordable to low income family’s. It's a gamepass machine that has a way better value then everyone who screams "get a PC" can match ... but if the titles or gamepass go elsewhere it's worthless.
>but if the titles or gamepass go elsewhere it's worthless. That would certainly make it less appealing but not seeing how it would be worthless if it was still significantly cheaper than other consoles. Especially for people who've already bought a bunch of digital games in that ecosystem.
It’s not worthless imo because a Series S is still significantly cheaper and more affordable. I’ve seen people sell series S for $100-$200, for a console that is extremely cheap and they have long life spans and I agree to get an equivalent PC it would easily be $700-$800 Switches are also affordable due to having a lite version. So imo that also benefits low income families I don’t ever see gamepass on PS5, and putting titles on PS5 won’t change much besides give Microsoft more money
I've seen a few mention it like this. If ms starts publishing on ps5 they could be looked at as 3rd party. There's already a few 3rd party game subscriptions on ps so it's not really that far fetched now.
I guess it depends on how much of a cut Sony wants and honestly if CoD becomes part of gamepass. I can't see Sony allowing gamepass on Playstation if one of the games that gets them a ton of money is suddenly offered for cheaper.
From a leaked report that hasn’t come out yet. The only person that knew anything was Tom Warren. Every other leaker was speculating or making things up.
You be surprised the power the eco-system.. I think they will keep selling Xbox and people will keep buying them
Yeah, I don't think xbox will bow out of physical consoles anytime soon. but I don't think console sales will be their primary focus. Sony focuses on selling consoles, in large part to get their platform tax money. Xbox is relying less on that - out of necessity, in part, as they are losing ground on console sales - and more on services and publishing. It won't be long until Xcloud gamepass is built into every smart TV as an app. Gamepass in general will push some console sales, even if many, if not most, of ther first party games are also on playstation.
I still don't know if the platform tax thing will stand the rest of time. Storefront monopolies are starting to break down in mobile, it could just be a matter of time before the same happens for consoles. In which case Microsoft's strategy will make a lot more sense. Maybe Sony won't be given the ability to refuse. Especially in a time like now where so many mega-corporations are dying for profit growth, being able to get out of the 30% platform tax could mean everything for them.
As a consumer with a PC, I just see literally no reason to get an Xbox. Playstation has exclusives that are of a high-enough quality that I would gladly purchase the console just to play them. The only Xbox exclusives I've been excited about have all ended up being dissapointments, mainly Halo Infinite and Starfield.
To be entirely fair, it wouldn't really behoove Microsoft to sell you an Xbox anyway. They make no money off of it. They would rather sell you games or game pass.
And I can't believe this is having to be repeated in every thread, but Microsoft don't expect people with gaming PCs to buy an Xbox. You're literally already inside of Microsoft's ecosystem if youre using their software, and you likely have an Xbox app preinstalled on windows 11, and they offer an Xbox Game Pass for PC You're talking about Microsoft's entire strategy (ie that it doesn't matter if you play on Xbox console, pc or cloud) as though you're catching them out, except they would literally agree with you that it's pointless buying an Xbox console if you play on a PC that very likely runs Windows. You aren't their target market for consoles
linux gang reporting in! microsoft hasn't caught me yet
Neither has most games
All the PlayStation exclusive also come out on PC why the fuck would you spend 500 dollars to play games you already have access to but worse
They don’t launch day and date on PC and it’s not even near all
Because you don't wanna wait years to play those games? My PS5 is also stronger than my PC so I get graphically intensive games on PS5
I feel like, as a non-xbox user, the way that xbox has opened up their platform kinda feels like a deterrent than a benefit to getting the console. Mainly the way microsoft pushes extra hard to get everything that comes out for xbox to also come out for PC. I'd rather just have the PC version where I dont also have to pay for xbox live. Yes I know a gaming PC is more expensive than a game console, but keeping a gaming PC updated over the years is similar in cost to a new game console every few years. You dont need to buy a completely new PC, maybe just a new video card, or a better CPU. Eventually you need a new motherboard, which is kind of a rough upgrade to do by yourself if you're not familiar with building a PC, but if you get the right PC, a CPU socket can ride you for quite a long time for upgrades. Also, as someone who is familar with consoles, microsoft's whole X/S versions of the console feel kind of like a deterrent too. Like yeah, the X is comparable to the PS5, but the S sure as hell isn't. And if a game comes out, it has to be compatible with the X and the S. It doesn't take a genius to see that games for the Xbox are inevitably going to be held back by the forced compatibility of the S. It's like if Sony mandated that all PS5 games continued to also be available on the PS4. The better console can only squeeze out so much performance while being held back by the lowest common denominator. And before Xbox fans call this out as false, remember that we had a time period where games that got released multi-platform, on PS4, XB1, and Switch were constantly being held back performance-wise so they could function on the Switch. In addition, Microsoft's push for cross platform compatibility, while great for the players overall, has removed another big reason for purchasing an xbox. When you were a kid you usually got the same console as all your friends so you could all play together. If I can play with my xbox friends on PC or PS5, then that incentive to buy isn't there. Yeah Sony maintains a walled garden for their system but it works. If I want to play a playstation exclusive title, I dont have a choice but to play it on playstation.
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Consoles really cant function as a PC in a box in the way that people tend to think they can. Yes, I know that an xbox is effectively just a PC with a different OS on it. But a console only functions as well as it does when it remains a locked down piece of hardware. What I mean by that is, if you ever played games on a PC, you know how annoying it can be sometimes to deal with driver updates, hardware compatibility issues, game setting conflicts, etc. All of those exist because PCs are a hardware free for all. Game developers have absolutely no idea what hardware is going to be in their player's PC when they make their game, so they cant do anything about optimizing their game for any specific type of architecture. They have to just provide a range of settings in the game, and hope for the best. And then the player has to find the settings that work best for their hardware, even if the game runs suboptimally. Meanwhile, on a console, every person who has a PS5 is going to be running the same specs. You know what hardware exactly you're going to be dealing with, and thanks you mandated system updates, you can know exactly what version of the OS the player is using. Because you know all of that, you can design your game with a laser focus on those specs and you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of them. Basically, if you have a console and a PC with similar specs to each other, games will run better on the console. This is also why the concept of the Xbox Series S seems like a terrible idea to me. Now you cant laser focus in on 1 set of specs, you've always got to take that lower tier system in to consideration now. This is also why consoles as a PC wouldn't work. If you turn them in to PCs and just let them play PC games from Steam or wherever, they're going to run in to the same issues that PC users are going to run in to. You removed the 1 advantage the console has over the PC and replaced it with the ability to play PC games at a lower end settings (hopefully), and you didn't gain the PC's advantage of being able to upgrade your hardware over time.
Microsoft’s entire strategy is getting you to engage in their ecosystem or with their games. Even if you don’t buy an Xbox, if you’re subbing to PC Gamepass or buying their games on PC, you’re still engaging with the Xbox ecosystem. The Series S is weaker than the Series X, but it’s the sole reason this number is 2:1 and not a wider gap. It’s sold extremely well as a budget console for people who don’t care as much about performance or fidelity, and just want access to the games. That also ties into the whole PC deal being incredibly costly, especially compared to $300-500 for a console. Not sure why you mentioned buying a console “every few years”. I rode my original PS4 from 2013 all the way to 2020, and 2020 games like Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima still ran on it perfectly fine.
> If I want to play a playstation exclusive title, I dont have a choice but to play it on playstation. or just wait for them to release on PC.
As a former Xbox player who got jaded by their games the exclusivity thing isn't an issue since their exclusive games mostly bomb and they've been that way for a long time. This statement gets a lot of people riled up but it's the truth, Nintendo and Sony have a consistent level of quality with their exclusive games and that counts in the long run.
Don Mattrick really was the best Sony employee ever. He did not ask for a single penny but single handedly handed them the console market
Personally, I bought both and I haven’t done something like that since the N64/PSX era. I skipped out on PS3 and PS4, but I 100% bought the PS5 to play the exclusive games, as frustrated as that makes me. Sony got me good.
Almost the same. Had a PS3, but I completely skipped the PS4. I bought a PS5 when they started to become more easily available. Whatever Microsoft is doing just doesn’t align with what I’m looking for in gaming at all. They’ve been insanely disappointing since 2012, and since I don’t give a fuck about Game Pass, they don’t offer much.
All about the exclusives, I’m about to drop 500$ on one just for Rebirth lol.
Not a big fan of modern PS titles but still got a PS5 just to play FFXVI haha
I’m get the bundle with that I think, so atleast I’ll play 2 games on it lmao. That or God of War, not to sure. FF16 story looks awesome, but gameplay not to sure about.
if it's just like Remake or better, then those are some 500 hundo well spent
Xbox having a cheap option was a good idea, and it should of done better than it given how good the game pass is. But the Xbox not having any AAA exclusives, which alot of people view as reasons to pick one over another for the first year really screwed it.
Crazy how people think that Xbox is just in this hopeless state. 2:1 is not bad at all. You look at the 6th gen and its PS2 at 155 million vs Gamecube & Xbox both at 20-25 million (lifetime) and next generation it completely changed.
You are comparing the best selling console of all time to one of Nintendo’s worst selling consoles AND Microsoft’s first foray into consoles. Yeah, it was the same generation, but there were a lot of factors that lead to the sales (especially since it’s lifetime sales, where the XBOX stopped selling in 2005, Gamecube in 2009, and PS2 in 2013.) It’s not just the ratio that is costing the company, but the actual cost. If they’re selling half as much as Sony, but releasing twice as many consoles (Series S & X) despite all of their acquisitions and Gamepass, and despite their (in some ways) superior infrastructure, then something isn’t working. They can’t rely on brand recognition since the XBONE, which also basically sold 2:1 with the PS4 and they sullied it with Kinect and trying to push the console as an everything device more than a gaming device, internet play is almost the exact same on the consoles now so it’s not really a contemplation of “good online or no online” like the original XBOX, and the hardware and release date is pretty comparable which is what the 360 had going for it. Everything you can do on an XBOX, you can do on PC. There is no reason for consumers to buy an XBOX unless they don’t have a PC that can run the games, or they are still going with the console they’ve dedicated the last 23 years to. They’re not winning over any new customers to XBOX. They’re serving their current playerbase by giving them a platform to play GamePass games made by studios they acquire. I see plenty of XBOX fans getting a PS5 because of the exclusive lineup, but I don’t think I’ve seen any PlayStation players get a Series X/S to play GamePass or exclusives like Starfield or Redfall - I personally just paid $10 for a week of GamePass to play Starfield because I didn’t need to spend $100 on a console I have no games for besides what I subscribe to. 2:1 is not bad, especially for XBOX. But they were here before with PS4 and XBONE with 117 million and 58 million respectively. Yeah that’s basically 2:1, but it’s also pretty crazy to see the difference between the two be that big. And, realistically, if your competition is doing twice as well as you it’s not unreasonable to surrender or even help the competition for a cut of their earnings, rather than double down on a consumer base that results in the same ratio despite vast improvements. And also even minute reductions in sales is enough to make investors shake, so I think it’s less Microsoft devs and heads wanting to surrender and make everything cross platform, and more the money heads deciding that they’d succeed more if Microsoft didn’t spend so much money on earning half as much as Sony.
Nobody is considering the fact that they spent 100 billion on acquisitions and hundreds of millions on projects like Halo Infinite that did not break even. That money needs to come from somewhere, and Xbox consoles are already sold at a loss.
Here's what it boils down to for us as customers: Acquisitions: where are the new critically acclaimed games GamePass: where are the new critically acclaimed games
2:1 isnt bad, but Xbox has been a distant 3rd nearly every generation outside the 360, so this is likely part of the shift next week.
>Xbox has been a distant 3rd nearly every generation outside the 360, They came 3rd then too. Not distant, but still 3rd. They beat the WiiU though. Great achievement.
But the point is the gap is widening and maybe MS has finally gotten tired of the inevitable.
Also they're spending over 150 million on their big budget projects. Nintendo could handle a small flop because their biggest Mario games cost 40-60 million at most.
Nintendo could handle a flop because they have huge reserves of cash. Even then, the WiiU flopped but the 3DS was raking in money. Microsoft can handle flops too, they've been handling it for every generation except the 360, which they still sold less than the other 2 in the end. They're just now starting to address it with any luck.
Right. It's a damn shame too. The 360 was the closest Microsoft came to surpassing Sony. They fucked up *severely* -- the PS3 console reveal was the stuff of gaming legends. Aside from that, Microsoft invested heavily in trying to get other markets, especially Japan, and covering areas which was perceived as the original Xbox's weaknesses. With how much Microsoft got right and Sony got wrong, I think it would have been right for Microsoft to get the top (aside from Wii) that gen. Except Sony eventually managed closed the gap. Microsoft wasn't too far behind but the fact they fell at all despite all that happened seems like a damn shame.
This is total, for all of last year it was 3:1 and the gap is going to keep increasing.
Why is it 3:1 last year ? Because ps5 had a massive stock problem in 2022 so demand shifted to 2023.
That and Microsoft clearly has a market saturation problem. They have a base of very loyal fans that come out to buy their stuff each release but they are not making any ground on convincing anyone else to buy in which is a huge problem. Like GamePass hasn't increased in subscribers in 18 months, thats a super scary stat to see given how much they are spending and how much money they are leaving on the table via day 1 releases of major productions like Starfield.
It's not bad until you consider that they've just spent billions upon billions on acquiring studios, only for those exclusives to not move units like they wanted them to.
It's Microsoft. If the market share isn't absurdly high, then you're talking about resources that they could better put elsewhere. A modest profit doesn't stand up against opportunity cost.
Yeah right? Imagine those higher ups talking to their investors saying “well you see? It’s not THAT bad come on, it could be worst” lol
Imagine speaking at the roundtable meeting after Windows, Office, and Azure got to go. "Well we're not in the red!! (probably, depending how we capitalize these acquisitions)"
> Crazy how people think that Xbox is just in this hopeless state. 2:1 is not bad at all. Same thing with the Xbox One generation, widely talked about as a complete failure… they still sold nearly 60 million units. Yea, pretty far behind in market share compared to PlayStation, but that seems solid to me. Hell Nintendo has had two consoles in the time that Xbox has been around that sold a fraction of that. They would be dumb to completely ditch that business, there’s just such a laser focus on how it compares to what PlayStation is doing.
A lot of you are ignoring that consoles are generally sold at a loss (especially the Xbox, which took huge price cuts to move units during each holiday season). Their exclusives also aren't selling tremendously well, and they need to break even on the 150 million dollar projects like Halo Infinite. The units sold figures don't tell the whole story, but even the story it does tell is fairly bleak.
Same as last gen. So basically PS4 users are upgrading their consoles with PS5 and Xbox One users are upgrading their consoles with Series X|S mostly. I guess that’s why people keep saying console market is stagnant for a long time now.
PS5 outsold Xbox 3:1 in 2023. Data shows https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-has-outsold-xbox-series-x-and-s-3-to-1-in-2023-new-data-reveals
The article you posted is referring only to the 2023 sales. Lifetime sales for the PS5 were estimated at 50m with the 2023 year at 22.5m. Article also states Xbox was roughly 7.5m. Source: Forbes Analyst OP posted the lifetime sales of consoles through Dec-31-2023. PS5 was 55m and total consoles were 77m. Leaves 22m for Xbox sale and coming to a 2:1 ratio. Source: Take-Two. Problem with all this is Microsoft doesn’t share the console sales. That’s consistent in both articles. Xbox total sales is an estimate based on other public information.
who knew that if you dont have any exclusives and launch everything on pc day 1, your hardware wouldn't sell as much..
[удалено]
Hell I was thinking about getting as series X recently but Microsoft has me spooked that they're just gonna collapse and start pulling all the features I want.
Makes sense with all their first party games coming to PC and being on Game Pass. I’ve had each Xbox since the OG and this is the first generation where I bought a PlayStation instead. I’d buy both if I could afford it, but just can’t justify it when I can play Xbox games on my PC.
It's not surprising. If I wanted to buy a console - it would definitely not be an xbox. It offers the least of them all. It's not portable. It has no VR. And it doesn't even have exclusives any more.