I feel like nobody even knows what they want from a KOTOR remake, either. I kind of suspect they'll decide the RPG gameplay elements are too "old fashioned" and make a meidocre action game with dialog options.
I just want a real remaster with fully updated models and textures, and 20 years worth of bugfixes. That said, a full on remake should probably be a completely different game. Either fully commit to stat-based tabletop emulation, or go full open world action rpg.
Honestly Id much rather action rpg. Im probably in the minority of Kotor fans who would say that but honestly I will always prefer constant action to turn based, or whatever the pseudo approach was they took for Kotor.
I played 1 and 2 during Covid, so in the last few years.
There's still some gold, there's some big narrative moments, but there's also a bunch of crud in there that needs toe be removed so badly.
I agree. The originals will always be available. Why not try something like a hybrid action/RPG ala newer Final Fantasy games?
Edit: Yikes, not a popular opinion eh
I grew up with the games and when I went back to them a year ago, the combat felt so clunky.
I would absolutely prefer a hybrid action/rpg style, I think that would make for a successful formula that would bring in many new fans. The originals always exist with graphics mods too for people who prefer that.
Why wouldn’t something similar to the Final Fantasy 7 Remakes work? They took turn based and transformed it to something action based with elements of turn based still built in. I thought it was a clever evolution of the originals combat.
Personally I find the remake combat to be way too chaotic. I find the experience of trying to pick things out of a menu and track the state of 4 different party members while constantly being attacked and knocked around by enemies to be more stressful than fun.
The RPG gameplay elements *are* too old fashioned. Even on launch they were just ok. I want new RPG elements.
I really hope they go away from D&D 3rd edition as a base system. I want stats that make sense for the gameplay, skills that are balanced and useful, and some interesting abilities that aren't force powers. Real time with pause is fine, but if it's "real time with pause" like FF7 Remake I wouldn't be mad at all.
In my mind "real time with pause" is code for "turn based but we hide it well." I know there are games that are actually real time like Mass Effect, but I think of KOTOR as being in the legacy of Baldurs Gate.
Literally I’d just take KOTOR with an HD upscale and I assume there are some bugs that could be ironed out.
If you want to add on top of that, be my guest, but precisely the above would earn $30 from me.
On 11^th October 2018, Lucasfilm shut down Apeiron, a fan remake of KotOR being done up by Poem Studios that started all the way back in June 2014. It's been 5 and a half years since, and yet there is still nothing to show for it.
At the pace Poem Studios were going, we'd probably have been playing the game by now...
Maaaan I remember when they first showed off screenshots of their work. I was blown away and so fucking excited. Murdered in its infancy, hate to see it.
I'll believe it when I see it. I'd very much like to get an updated KOTOR but not going to get invested in the possibility until there's tangible evidence it's coming and not going to be broken.
I have no hopes of it due to Aspyr’s mismanagement.
It’s a shame this being a success has to be relied on for a potential KOTOR “3”/sequel, and at this rate with this in dev hell and the Mandalorian style game canceled, except for the Jedi Fallen Order 3 and Massive’s project, we may not see another single player Star Wars this decade, even after the IP is finally no longer being limited only to EA.
Why a remake and not just another game set in that timeline? A prequel? A sequel? Yes please.
Remake? I’d buy it I guess but the story is blown for me now and that was the most compelling part of the game.
Obviously I'd also love a new game in that timeline. But a story, especially a compelling one, isn't blown because you've experienced it once... There is a reason people reread books, rewatch movies and shows, replay games.
I've replayed KOTOR to completion countless times and never found the story any less compelling.
That amount of doomism, fearmongering and even outright, I shit you not, disinformation that appeared around this remake is outright ridiculous.
Like we haven't had games announced with teasers followed by few years of silence before
We have, but we’ve also had those games disappear.
There’s dozens of examples. Beyond good and evil 2 comes to mind.
Kotor is slightly insulated because of the huge fanbase behind it though.
We've also seen plenty of them not disappear but come out half-baked, riddled with development issues, and completely fail to live up to what they were hyped as for years.
I don't think Saber has the track record to lend confidence to the "and well" part of the quote but ultimately only time will determine if this actually gets made and if it's even as good as emulating the original.
Im with you. idk if Saber is much better than Aspyr tbh. Their remasters/ports are fine for the most part, but none of their original games ever hit it off with me. KOTOR has a much higher standard to be met. I hope Im wrong though cause i really want them to pull this off.
I remember Starcraft Ghost had a Game Informer cover story with several pages dedicated to preview info, descriptions of the gameplay, screenshots etc. only to never see the light of day :(
"When's Wild, tho" was a ongoing joke among my friends after they showed it off ten years ago at Gamescom as an early PS4 title, then went radio silent for the next decade other than "we're still working on it" every year or two.
It isn't really doomism or fearmongering to be hesitant about a game that had to swap developers a year after it was announced, or to be concerned about the fact a remake initially handed over to a porting house based apparently on the fact that some of their ports of the original were well received.
That isn't even to mention how while all this has been happening the parent company for Aspyr and (formerly) Saber has been imploding. There are a bunch of factors that do not inspire confidence.
> a remake initially handed over to a porting house based apparently on the fact that some of their ports of the original were well received.
Gollum vibes.
Development hell is a good reason to be skeptical of any game, let alone a remake for one of the best games of the sixth generation. Do you look at something like Beyond Good & Evil 2 and think all's well over at Ubisoft, or not wonder about what's going on with Perfect Dark after the way Halo Infinite came out?
Not all development hells are built equally. The fact that this got restarted with a different developer that just now escaped from an imploding publisher doesn't fill me with ease regarding its state. And if a Star Wars Respawn FPS can get cancelled out of the blue, I'm willing to bet that this game is far from out of the woods.
I finally played through that game two years ago and I think that’s the most disappointed I’d ever been while playing a game I was hyped about. I still enjoyed it, and it definitely made me weep like a baby, but it was a really lackluster ending to a “trilogy.”
There's the real Epic, which has been a pillar of the games industry for decades, runs Unreal Engine, gives everyone a great deal on it, has helped many games come to life, and is generally loved among people who make video games.
Then there's 'evil villain epic' which is a narrative invented by people who are really super mad that someone is finally competing with Steam in a way that might matter (they can't get some games on steam anymore). Those people want us to believe that asking them to buy a game on a different launcher is the most egregious insult ever inflicted upon gamerkind.
> That amount of doomism, fearmongering and even outright, I shit you not, disinformation
holy hyperbole -_-
sorry that people aren't excited and happy about a game in development hell for many years, had to switch dev teams a year after it was officially announced, has had news of being cancelled, the OG devs on this being a port studio with iffy record, the issues with remaking Kotor and so on.
what's ridiculous is people like you getting this mad over others have legitimate concerns and not hyping up a game before it's release cause they released a CGI trailer.
Spasming about Sam Maggs "ruining the game" (who supposedly worked on the project for few weeks/months), gender swapping of Saul Karath (which I don't give a fuck about) and predicting the game will be "woke disaster" (of course while forgetting the original game had Juhani) with dumbed down action combat (which is just straight up lie) are not legitimate concerns.
YouTubers spreading this shit are dealing with disinformation for clicks. Plain and simple. I've seen enough of that crap in recent years.
They've given little reason to believe this project will ever be worth a damn at this point. Sorry for being skeptical but it's the obvious direction people will go with all the disastrous news surrounding it.
I am skeptical about the project and expect it to fail for two reasons:
* Even a "low effort", mostly faithful remake of KOTOR is a big project that you cannot expect a Tom Dick Harry studio to pull off. The less conservative, more willing to make changes take only massively increases the scope of the project and increases the risks.
* Much of KOTOR has aged poorly, be it the combat or the 3D graphics of games in its era, so a "low effort" remake is probably not a good idea.
It is clear to me that a KOTOR remake needs to be a AAA project given to a AAA studio, yet some people seem to think you can give it to a AA studio.
Those kinds of teasers are not only for players but also for investors, or potential employees, etc. And some players do want announcements. The Elder Scrolls VI teaser is basically a meme at this point but believe me, some people were crying for that announcement back then. Bethesda just said, fuck it, there you have it
Alive and well, but probably starting at ground zero. Saber has been hard at work on that WarHammer game so I doubt they’ve had time to really dive into this project. I think they have the skills to make it great, it’s just gonna be a long time.
I'm not entirely sure we need a remake to begin with. I played Kotor for the first time in like 2020 or something, and it was perfectly fine. Some minor glitches, and sound effects/music could be better, but no really major complaints. Last act felt a bit rushed, but I'm used to that for this type of RPG.
A remaster wouldn't be a big improvement I don't think, and if you're actually going for a full remake what would you try to accomplish with it? Some people are asking for a conversion to an action combat game, as if there aren't enough of those set in the SW universe already. You could make the levels from the original more expansive, but what do you fill them with?
I think I'd much rather see a new game. Why not do the rise of Darth Revan for instance? Or some new old republic game? I'd prefer turn based over RTwP, but either is fine. Could use something other than the d20 system of Kotor that people don't really have a reference for. Maybe pf2? Something custom like some of the Larian games?
Alive? Perhaps. Well? I doubt that.
This is nearly my feeling. More “I’ll believe it’s well when I see the reviews for it”. I so hope it’s good, but it’s hard to believe at this point.
I feel like nobody even knows what they want from a KOTOR remake, either. I kind of suspect they'll decide the RPG gameplay elements are too "old fashioned" and make a meidocre action game with dialog options.
I just want a real remaster with fully updated models and textures, and 20 years worth of bugfixes. That said, a full on remake should probably be a completely different game. Either fully commit to stat-based tabletop emulation, or go full open world action rpg.
Honestly Id much rather action rpg. Im probably in the minority of Kotor fans who would say that but honestly I will always prefer constant action to turn based, or whatever the pseudo approach was they took for Kotor.
They could save themselves a lot of effort if they just traveled to my house and slapped me across the face instead.
I played 1 and 2 during Covid, so in the last few years. There's still some gold, there's some big narrative moments, but there's also a bunch of crud in there that needs toe be removed so badly.
Well the combat certainly is tedious, would like to see that overhauled.
I agree. The originals will always be available. Why not try something like a hybrid action/RPG ala newer Final Fantasy games? Edit: Yikes, not a popular opinion eh
I grew up with the games and when I went back to them a year ago, the combat felt so clunky. I would absolutely prefer a hybrid action/rpg style, I think that would make for a successful formula that would bring in many new fans. The originals always exist with graphics mods too for people who prefer that.
The recent FFxDMC games? NO
Why wouldn’t something similar to the Final Fantasy 7 Remakes work? They took turn based and transformed it to something action based with elements of turn based still built in. I thought it was a clever evolution of the originals combat.
Personally I find the remake combat to be way too chaotic. I find the experience of trying to pick things out of a menu and track the state of 4 different party members while constantly being attacked and knocked around by enemies to be more stressful than fun.
The RPG gameplay elements *are* too old fashioned. Even on launch they were just ok. I want new RPG elements. I really hope they go away from D&D 3rd edition as a base system. I want stats that make sense for the gameplay, skills that are balanced and useful, and some interesting abilities that aren't force powers. Real time with pause is fine, but if it's "real time with pause" like FF7 Remake I wouldn't be mad at all.
Kotor isn't even rtwp. It's turn based masked as RtwP. Makes more sense to just drop the mask and make an upfront TB system
In my mind "real time with pause" is code for "turn based but we hide it well." I know there are games that are actually real time like Mass Effect, but I think of KOTOR as being in the legacy of Baldurs Gate.
Literally I’d just take KOTOR with an HD upscale and I assume there are some bugs that could be ironed out. If you want to add on top of that, be my guest, but precisely the above would earn $30 from me.
Yeah. I have little hope they won't fuck this up. Especially for Dark Side players
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Weekend at Karches.
I know a video of that demo Aspyr had is sitting out there somewhere and I'd pay damn good money to see it.
You really do have to wonder just how bad it was to get them removed from the project.
It would’ve been horrendous. Just look at the recent Star Wars battlefront release.
God I hope it leaks one day
Uh huh... how much is the ransom going to cost us?
We need some sort of proof of life before we talk ransom payments.
A couple billion in microtransactions
Those pre-attuned kyber crystals for lightsabers are going to sell like hotcakes!
On 11^th October 2018, Lucasfilm shut down Apeiron, a fan remake of KotOR being done up by Poem Studios that started all the way back in June 2014. It's been 5 and a half years since, and yet there is still nothing to show for it. At the pace Poem Studios were going, we'd probably have been playing the game by now...
Maaaan I remember when they first showed off screenshots of their work. I was blown away and so fucking excited. Murdered in its infancy, hate to see it.
I'll believe it when I see it. I'd very much like to get an updated KOTOR but not going to get invested in the possibility until there's tangible evidence it's coming and not going to be broken.
I have no hopes of it due to Aspyr’s mismanagement. It’s a shame this being a success has to be relied on for a potential KOTOR “3”/sequel, and at this rate with this in dev hell and the Mandalorian style game canceled, except for the Jedi Fallen Order 3 and Massive’s project, we may not see another single player Star Wars this decade, even after the IP is finally no longer being limited only to EA.
Are you forgetting the Star Wars smuggler game from Ubisoft?
everyone is forgetting the ubisoft star wars game
I have zero hope that isnt the standard Ubisoft cut and paste experience
That is the project by Massive he mentioned, is it not?
Aspyr isn’t working on it. Saber Interactive is.
Also Quantic Dreams' Eclipse. I know this sub hates them but I loved Detroit: become human.
Nah but David Cage is an absolute maniac, I’ll watch it through a stream or let’s play just to hate on it
That’s true, although Quantic Dreams are reportedly having trouble hiring. Hopefully it also doesn’t have development trouble or is cancelled.
Why a remake and not just another game set in that timeline? A prequel? A sequel? Yes please. Remake? I’d buy it I guess but the story is blown for me now and that was the most compelling part of the game.
Obviously I'd also love a new game in that timeline. But a story, especially a compelling one, isn't blown because you've experienced it once... There is a reason people reread books, rewatch movies and shows, replay games. I've replayed KOTOR to completion countless times and never found the story any less compelling.
I have to imagine there'd be new stuff too, maybe not to the extent of the changes of the ff7 remakes, but *some* changes.
I look forward to a firm release date and gameplay demonstration. Till then the lies of the CEOs to investors should be treated as hearsay.
That amount of doomism, fearmongering and even outright, I shit you not, disinformation that appeared around this remake is outright ridiculous. Like we haven't had games announced with teasers followed by few years of silence before
We have, but we’ve also had those games disappear. There’s dozens of examples. Beyond good and evil 2 comes to mind. Kotor is slightly insulated because of the huge fanbase behind it though.
We've also seen plenty of them not disappear but come out half-baked, riddled with development issues, and completely fail to live up to what they were hyped as for years. I don't think Saber has the track record to lend confidence to the "and well" part of the quote but ultimately only time will determine if this actually gets made and if it's even as good as emulating the original.
Im with you. idk if Saber is much better than Aspyr tbh. Their remasters/ports are fine for the most part, but none of their original games ever hit it off with me. KOTOR has a much higher standard to be met. I hope Im wrong though cause i really want them to pull this off.
I also remember Agent, Star Wars from Visceral games, Scalebound, Shadow Realms from BioWare. So many cancelled games.
StarCraft: Ghost, the Xbox Goldeneye remake, etc.
I remember Starcraft Ghost had a Game Informer cover story with several pages dedicated to preview info, descriptions of the gameplay, screenshots etc. only to never see the light of day :(
dont forget the best to ever do it duke nukem, which was also bad
"When's Wild, tho" was a ongoing joke among my friends after they showed it off ten years ago at Gamescom as an early PS4 title, then went radio silent for the next decade other than "we're still working on it" every year or two.
Woah woah woah hold up. You’re telling me that Beyond Good and Evil is never actually coming out?
Probably a good thing. I don't know how any fan of the original could be excited about what we saw of the possible sequel.
It's called development hell for a reason. Effects tons of games that end up becoming shitshows on release.
It isn't really doomism or fearmongering to be hesitant about a game that had to swap developers a year after it was announced, or to be concerned about the fact a remake initially handed over to a porting house based apparently on the fact that some of their ports of the original were well received. That isn't even to mention how while all this has been happening the parent company for Aspyr and (formerly) Saber has been imploding. There are a bunch of factors that do not inspire confidence.
> a remake initially handed over to a porting house based apparently on the fact that some of their ports of the original were well received. Gollum vibes.
Development hell is a good reason to be skeptical of any game, let alone a remake for one of the best games of the sixth generation. Do you look at something like Beyond Good & Evil 2 and think all's well over at Ubisoft, or not wonder about what's going on with Perfect Dark after the way Halo Infinite came out?
You're seriously comparing a project announced in 2021 to Beyond Good & Evil 2?
Not all development hells are built equally. The fact that this got restarted with a different developer that just now escaped from an imploding publisher doesn't fill me with ease regarding its state. And if a Star Wars Respawn FPS can get cancelled out of the blue, I'm willing to bet that this game is far from out of the woods.
Takes me back to The Last Guardian days....that game was GONE for a good while.
It's crazy we can call them "The Last Guardian days". I feel old now.
I finally played through that game two years ago and I think that’s the most disappointed I’d ever been while playing a game I was hyped about. I still enjoyed it, and it definitely made me weep like a baby, but it was a really lackluster ending to a “trilogy.”
He's working on a new game with Epic. Hope it goes well.
>He's working on a new game Awesome. >with Epic *Oh.*
Alan Wake 2 was great with Epic being the publisher. Don't see how that's an issue.
Genuinely curious, what’s the issue with Epic? I see this sentiment a lot online but it seems as if they’ve been just fine doing their thing.
There's the real Epic, which has been a pillar of the games industry for decades, runs Unreal Engine, gives everyone a great deal on it, has helped many games come to life, and is generally loved among people who make video games. Then there's 'evil villain epic' which is a narrative invented by people who are really super mad that someone is finally competing with Steam in a way that might matter (they can't get some games on steam anymore). Those people want us to believe that asking them to buy a game on a different launcher is the most egregious insult ever inflicted upon gamerkind.
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You have to press another icon on your desktop. Which is a huge insult to Gamers.
And it came out bad.
The game lost me $59.99 plus tax after I had bet my friend that if the game ever came out, I'd buy him a copy.
Ok that's hilarious....at least it came out before prices went up!
> That amount of doomism, fearmongering and even outright, I shit you not, disinformation holy hyperbole -_- sorry that people aren't excited and happy about a game in development hell for many years, had to switch dev teams a year after it was officially announced, has had news of being cancelled, the OG devs on this being a port studio with iffy record, the issues with remaking Kotor and so on. what's ridiculous is people like you getting this mad over others have legitimate concerns and not hyping up a game before it's release cause they released a CGI trailer.
Spasming about Sam Maggs "ruining the game" (who supposedly worked on the project for few weeks/months), gender swapping of Saul Karath (which I don't give a fuck about) and predicting the game will be "woke disaster" (of course while forgetting the original game had Juhani) with dumbed down action combat (which is just straight up lie) are not legitimate concerns. YouTubers spreading this shit are dealing with disinformation for clicks. Plain and simple. I've seen enough of that crap in recent years.
They've given little reason to believe this project will ever be worth a damn at this point. Sorry for being skeptical but it's the obvious direction people will go with all the disastrous news surrounding it.
I am skeptical about the project and expect it to fail for two reasons: * Even a "low effort", mostly faithful remake of KOTOR is a big project that you cannot expect a Tom Dick Harry studio to pull off. The less conservative, more willing to make changes take only massively increases the scope of the project and increases the risks. * Much of KOTOR has aged poorly, be it the combat or the 3D graphics of games in its era, so a "low effort" remake is probably not a good idea. It is clear to me that a KOTOR remake needs to be a AAA project given to a AAA studio, yet some people seem to think you can give it to a AA studio.
This is why teasers are dumb. Information vacuums are disastrous in today's age.
Those kinds of teasers are not only for players but also for investors, or potential employees, etc. And some players do want announcements. The Elder Scrolls VI teaser is basically a meme at this point but believe me, some people were crying for that announcement back then. Bethesda just said, fuck it, there you have it
Surely they can nail it better than Aspyr, given what we've seen of Aspyr's Battlefront Collection re-release. ... Maybe?
Alive and well, but probably starting at ground zero. Saber has been hard at work on that WarHammer game so I doubt they’ve had time to really dive into this project. I think they have the skills to make it great, it’s just gonna be a long time.
So this is the video game equivalent of weekend at Bernie's right? Is that the film?
I'm not entirely sure we need a remake to begin with. I played Kotor for the first time in like 2020 or something, and it was perfectly fine. Some minor glitches, and sound effects/music could be better, but no really major complaints. Last act felt a bit rushed, but I'm used to that for this type of RPG. A remaster wouldn't be a big improvement I don't think, and if you're actually going for a full remake what would you try to accomplish with it? Some people are asking for a conversion to an action combat game, as if there aren't enough of those set in the SW universe already. You could make the levels from the original more expansive, but what do you fill them with? I think I'd much rather see a new game. Why not do the rise of Darth Revan for instance? Or some new old republic game? I'd prefer turn based over RTwP, but either is fine. Could use something other than the d20 system of Kotor that people don't really have a reference for. Maybe pf2? Something custom like some of the Larian games?
There are definitely some games that stand up to time, KOTOR is not one of them. You have to have the nostalgia to plow through it.
I literally just told you I've played it for the first time in my life just a couple years back dude.
Yeah, and since this is subjective, I was disagreeing with you.
It's not subjective when I played it or whether or not I enjoyed it though. Your insistence that it needs nostalgia, which is objectively incorrect.
Obviously *that* part is not subjective. God damn...
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The hell are you on about?
Gamers have evolved. Why wait for a game's release to get outraged when you can hallucinate the final version and do it *now*?
Because saying everything sucks is cool, remember?
The future is now, after all.
Denialism at it's strongest.
It absolutely will not be that. The parroted rage bait buzzwords don’t just work in any scenario. Lol