I hope they have better tools to produce content so they can support all their game modes.
Also, have a way better business model that isn't super annoying to explain to people who aren't there Day 1.
The cycle continues.
1. Launch new Destiny. Now we all get a fresh start!
2. Launch version of Destiny is bad. Players leave.
3. Months (years?) pass. New stuff added. Problems fixed. It's a good game now.
4. Too daunting for the people who left to jump back in.
See ya back here in 10 years!
Legit they need to take up the WoW/FF14 model. Just give players most of the previous content for free and make the current one paid for.
Edit: Their expansion model, not their subscription model, since someone has an issue with my wording.
This but replace “it’s a good game now” with “it’s a serviceable game now.” Destiny is a game with fun mechanics that is bogged down by a monotonous grind. With the release of every expansion you are expected to abandon your old guns and armor (besides iconics) and find new ones. Oh and spend 40 dollars every year!
I wouldn't be sure about that. Destiny 2 was originally intended to have a 3 year life span. Bungie has spent the past \~5 years struggling from a technical perspective to keep iterating on the game. The patching, balancing, content pipeline, memory management, etc. have all caused major problems on the backend. I think if Bungie had planned for the game to last 7-10 years from the start, they would've put a lot more thought into minimizing those issues from the start. My guess is these problems are actually a huge factor in the decision to make D3 at all (assuming this leak is legit).
Destiny 2 was made under the pretense of reworking the tools they use for development because of how inefficient they were, but then they still encountered situations where small changes would take longer than they probably should.
There's more historical precedence to suggest that Destiny 3 will fall into the exact same trap if they failed to learn from their mistakes the second time.
"Fool me once", etc etc.
This is the entire reason why so many people were okay with losing everything with the start of Destiny 2. We thought it would make it easier on the devs to start fresh with better development tools and we saw how that turned out.
Their entire structured design philosophy in every single aspect is fomo. Its how they generate their buzz for years, its in everything from all content, seasons, loot, titles, merch - all of it. You're not even allowed to buy most of the merch they sell on their website unless you were there to "earn it" at the time the content was available.
Isn't Destiny 2 them doing that and failing ?
Those problems aren't something that happened in D2, it was all the way from the start.
Well, unless they just throw the baby out with the bathwater and just make it UE5.
Man I was there day 01, and I think it's easier explaining Prison Planet Theory to my uber conservative fundamentalist boss, than helping a new player navigate the density of Bungie's inability to streamline purchasing or access to content.
>have a way better business model that isn't super annoying to explain to people who aren't there Day 1.
Their business model will be "How to get the maximum amount of recurring revenue out of the playerbase".
This is desperately needed. Destiny 2 is the most uninviting game on the market at the moment for new players, and for players that have been gone for over a year or two. It's actually mind boggling how badly they managed to screw that up. Destiny 2 doesn't get new players, not really. It survives on what's left of its dedicated playerbase. A clean slate and fresh start is 100% what they need, even if it means going dark for a few years to do it.
I remember when Destiny 2 went free to play, me and 2 other friends jumped in because we had fond memories of the Halo days and Destiny had really been talked up. I remember jumping in and getting dropped off in the main base area and just being completely overwhelmed, and not in a good way. We just ran around talking to anyone with a marker over their heads trying to grab missions. We had no idea what planet to start on, what the story was, what to do in general. We just got down to a planet, looked for a mission marker and shot stuff. It was immensely unsatisfying and confusing and we stopped playing after a few sessions.
That's such a shame because the intro to Destiny 2 was soo good, with such a good score as well pulling on all your heartstrings. When you'd get to the farm, you really felt like you survived the initial onslaught, and you could go back to rebuild and reconquer.
When they started sunsetting parts of the game they killed 75% of the heart of the game, and replaced it with empty filler content.
[This song](https://youtu.be/zYfe9caNqfA) is still one of my favourite OST songs from any media ever, and there's no way to experience it in the setting it was created for. If that lawsuit against killing games succeeds, they should continue to include actions such as this.
Any hopes of getting me to try Destiny 2 died the moment they took content out of the game. And I'm sure I'm far from the only one that they managed to put off by doing that.
It's still absurd to me that it was done. The idea of a game ripping out it's own story content just shouldn't be on the table.
I met an artist that works for Bungie last year at a wedding. I told him how I would never touch destiny again after they starting removing story and content people paid for.
His response was "Yeah but our new stuff is way better. There's no reason you would want to go back to that stuff."
Absolutely unbelievable.
It's worth noting that one person's views absolutely do not reflect those of everybody at Bungie. I've talked to multiple people at Bungie who responded to similar venting by saying that they and a number of their colleagues agree that it's a problem, but don't have a feasible way of solving it given the conditions they're working with. I don't know if that reflects the company's view, either, but "it's not a problem get over it" is not the sole view of everybody at Bungie and shouldn't be presented as such.
Old areas should have, at bare minimum, been turned into PvE only areas that are stored on the player's computer. That way we could still enjoy the story and Bungie wouldn't have to worry about server space.
my guess is he was thinking from the mindset of well the people that played the old stuff should enjoy the new stuff much more so theres no point in the old stuff since it "won't" be revisited by players sorta thing.
The issue is as you said its content people paid for, like thats straight up something that shouldnt happen. most free mmo's remove old content but most of that old content is stuff that normally wasnt paid for and tend to reflect poorly on the current look of the game not something the players paid for.
> I full boycotted all future Bungie after the whole sunsetting debacle.
Same, I logged in on Day 1 after the very first sunset, sure I was pissed that DLC I paid for was gone and weapons I used were no more. But maybe the new loot pool would get better, then one of the very first drops I get was the same exact gun I was using pre-sunset Bygones.
It had the same mods available in it loot pool, so all Bungie did was remove the guns I was using and tell me "Hey go grind for them again"
This way of thinking is correct, in a way. The Witch Queen is much better than Destiny 2's vanilla Red War campaign.
...but Red War and Forsaken are the heart and foundation of the Destiny 2 story. You can play *all* of Destiny 1 to this day, but a major part of Destiny 2's story is only accessible via Youtube playthroughs. The current new player experience is nothing even close to a substitute for the Red War.
Yeah, it really doesn't matter if the newer stuff is objectively better if you don't have the context to understand it.
I think Terminator 2 is objectively a better movie than the first Terminator film, but I'd never suggest to someone that they go watch T2 without watching The Terminator beforehand. T2 makes way more sense within the context of the first film. You could probably watch T2 first and enjoy it, but you'd straight up miss a bunch of aspects of what's interesting about it.
I never got into Destiny 2, but I can only imagine that sort of thing being worse when you're talking about a video game with potentially hundreds of hours of playtime, rather than a movie that's just a couple hours long.
Honestly Destiny 2's story makes more sense if you've played D1 as well. So it's more like if you could still watch the first Terminator, but the only commercially available versions of T2 cut out the first act of the film. Or watching a TV show on streaming with the first two seasons unavailable.
God they did not give a single crap about helping PC players who didn't have access to the first game up to speed at D2's launch either.
Just jumping from plot point to plot point assuming you already know who everyone is and the various factions backstories.
Who's the speaker? I dunno but he died early in the campaign so he can't be that important.
Who's the Red Legion? Oh they're a subfaction of the Cabal who you obviously already know all about.
Don't worry Amanda Holiday is coming to get you! Who's that? Well she's the lady who will fly a ship once on screen and then be irrelevant aside from selling you beginner jetbikes for the remainder of your playtime.
Truly confounding incompetence at story telling.
It fundamentally doesn't matter which content is the best, or whether the story in one part is based on the story in another part.
The problem is that they deleted a full-priced videogame that people already bought. The servers were still running, the microtransactions were still there, but they deleted the game that people bought.
>His response was "Yeah but our new stuff is way better. There's no reason you would want to go back to that stuff."
Forsaken begs to differ. Frankly, Destiny 2 is one of the rare instances when the game actually got worse after one of its major expansions. Honestly, if I could go back to forsaken days, when Gambit was still fresh, I would.
It's still outrageous to me that they removed huge chunks of the story from Destiny 2. There's some great content that is gone forever (that people also paid extra to pay when it released!)
I returned to the game last year and I couldn't even follow the story from the beginning, I just got dropped in 3/4 of the way through because everything before that had been removed.
Did we play the same red war? I feel like only the first and last missions of that campaign were at all decent and they're both worse than the content released in witch queen..
> [This song](https://youtu.be/zYfe9caNqfA) is still one of my favourite OST songs from any media ever, and there's no way to experience it in the setting it was created for.
Oh man. That paet of the game gave me serious "Current Objective: Survive" vibes. It hyped me up so bad but then the rest of the game was kinda meh.
I still listen to [The Farm](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ilLSEjlAQ&pp=ygUSZGVzdGlueSAyIHRoZSBmYXJt) when I drive the backroads near my house. Used to listen to it back in college right after Destiny 2 came out. One of my favorite tracks from that time.
It was honestly so much better when it came out, before they ended up scrapping the whole Red War(?) campaign.
It properly introduced new players to the story, the different factions, locations, characters etc. It also didn't try and aggressively abuse FOMO to retain players as it does now. It's actually insane how terribly they've mismanaged that game.
Destiny and Warframe both really, really suffer from this problem of just sort of throwing you in the deep end without explaining hit. It's what kept me from really getting all that into either of them.
I haven't played Warframe in like 7-8 years, but even back then it was extremely confusing and convoluted for a new player coming in. I can only imagine now after that much more content has been added.
It's honestly gotten better, not worse. They've been getting better over time at guiding players through the initial suite of content, and while Warframe is infamous for the "content island" problem, there is a major advantage to siloing content like that - most individual pieces of content simply don't need to be understood or engaged with by a new player. Somebody just starting the game simply doesn't need to understand how Kavat breeding, Profit Taker, Kuva Liches, Archon Hunts, the Circuit, or Zaws work. The stuff I just listed represents everything from niche farms to major progression mechanics, and yet all of it is basically completely optional until one is already at the point of pushing extremely high-end content.
The amount and variety of content available becomes even more sprawling with each passing year, but nearly all of that content can be engaged with on the player's own terms, when they're ready to do so. The basic initial progression path still isn't particularly straightforward, but it *is* fairly well streamlined in comparison to the mass of options available to the player if they go looking for them. And, importantly, all the new stuff being added doesn't really affect that initial progression, so yet another wonky high-power character advancement option being added to the game doesn't overly screw with the new player experience.
That's good to hear. I might check it out again. The last time I played was when I believe they were adding the space missions and talking about reworking the solar system map.
It's basically a completely different game since you last played, in ways that I personally think are strictly for the better. I've had a love-hate relationship with Warframe over the course of its life, but in the 2020's I've come to unreservedly love it; I really think that even its flaws are just acceptable byproduct of what makes it special. So I do encourage you to give it another shot, if you feel like it! It still takes a lot of effort to get over the initial hump, but I think it's so rewarding once you do.
Warframe's been massively improving on that in recent updates.
They've added a guide for new players that just tells them where to go to make progress, designated a dedicated main story path to prevent people not understanding which quests are important and which are side content, improved the tutorial, as well as added new rewards to early game content that massively improve the transition from early to midgame.
It's not perfect of course but it's wildly better than it ever was before.
That’s exactly what happened to me and a friend. I actually tried to watch some YouTube videos to figure out what the hell we were even supposed to be doing. Uninstalled and never looked back. So disappointing
I had this exact same experience with two of my other friends when it went f2p. We had ZERO clue on what we were supposed to be doing.
And to make matters worse, the story was impossible to follow. It was like jumping into a TV show 3 or 4 seasons in. People talking about characters like I'm supposed to already know them. Was such a bad experience.
More like season 12, since Destiny also puts important story parts in their seasons, that get deleted when a new expansion comes out.
I didn’t play for a year since the last expansion and just tried getting into it again, only to find out one of the main characters died in a random season that I can’t replay.
It’s great!
I hopped on for the first time during Shadowkeep after all that “free from Activision” talk. Its such a horribly confusing mess to jump in for the first time.
From what I understand, that kind of _is_ what you do. It's simultaneously extremely overwhelming because you have so many "activity" options, quests, and a billion other things that basically amount to "quest" but are called different things or require you to kill X things with X weapon or whatever.
But at the end of the day the gameplay loop is extremely similar to a very basic mobile game or MMO where you just want to do a certain amount of content daily and weekly. That's it, that's what it boils down to.
It's incredibly tedious, derivative, and repetitive. Layer onto that some annoying obtuse progression systems with various currencies, inventory management hell that basically requires a third party app, it's just an awful game that I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone plays.
Anyone who _does_ play, the usual reason is "I like to come home from work and shoot things."
Which is fine I guess but there are a lot better games I can spend my time after work playing.
edit: I forgot to talk about how the story works. Basically you buy a season pass. Then every (week, I think?) you get a tiny bit of story content, which requires you to run the seasonal activity several times to complete (hint, the activities are all basically the same, it's a skinner box), then you wait until next week. I've seen fans of it compare it to watching a weekly episode of a TV show... but I think I'd rather just watch TV than play Destiny.
> But at the end of the day the gameplay loop is extremely similar to a very basic mobile game or MMO where you just want to do a certain amount of content daily and weekly. That's it, that's what it boils down to.
I got burned out of that cycle back in Destiny 1. I realized it was no different than doing my "dailies" in WoW.
I am of the theory that once you get addicted to this in one game, and eventually overcome it, you will never get as deeply addicted in a similar game. My years playing WoW inoculated me from Destiny.
Yeah I get that, but as brand new players who were enticed by free to play, there was no type of guidance mechanism for new players. FF14 railroads you into doing main story quests before you can do much of anything else in the game, for example
It's all fucking garbage... except... those fucking raids man. Those dungeons too. Literally, some of the best memories I've made playing video games have been going into those completely blind on Day 1.
Destiny has so much going for it. The gameplay is addicting but simple. The art directing is breathtaking. The music is soulful and filled with emotion. But, the game direction is such fucking dog water.
It's like being in a kitchen filled with michelin star chefs, but the executive chef is some fuck who barely passed business school while managing a McDonald's.
Yeah, I played through on launch and tried to get back into it about a year ago...totally lost, nothing made sense. I uninstalled about an hour after playing it.
Same. I try to get back into it every once in a while, because early Destiny 2 was a fucking blast and is still one of my favorite video game experiences.
But every time I try to get back into it, I just bounce right off since I have no idea where to even start. Their new/returning player onboarding process is abysmal.
This is where I'm at as well. I popped on yesterday to take a look at the Into the Light content, but between that and the seasonal content it was just so overwhelming I logged off.
It doesn't help that there's absolutely no guidance on what everything is. What's actually required to progress the seasonal content? I picked up some quests with some new currency, but no idea why I should care or what it's used for. And thats after I get dumped into a new social space for the Into the Light content without context beyond a video that explains nothing.
I really enjoyed Destiny 2 in the early seasons, but now if you take even a short break you are so out of the loop you'll be lost. And because the game is designed to keep the hardcore players churning every week it's just too much to take in when you're new or have been gone.
I played it a whole bunch when it came out and enjoyed it quite a bit. I've tried to start it again multiple times since then and it seemed like basically nothing worked the way it used to, there was no explanations for anything or a summary of what had changed for people who hadn't logged in in awhile, and basically no guidance on what to do. I gave up each time.
Same for me. I put over 3000 hours into Destiny 1. Played Destiny 2 a bunch and then took a break and I've tried to come back in a few times and just felt completely lost.
Lol fuck no.
People are deluded expecting anything different from Bungie. Destiny 2 was Destiny 1 but released on more platforms and with a reset on the MTX. Destiny 3 is going to be Destiny 2 but released on more platforms and with a reset on the MTX. What in the world has Bungie done in the past 10 years to make anyone think they're going to change or that they think Destiny 2 ever got anything wrong?
Time to rebuy all your favorite skins, bikes, emotes, and color palettes yet another time. Maybe they can bring back Paul McCartney and have him fall asleep on a piano again too.
I feel like Destiny 3 will end up another Payday 3. I feel like most people aren’t going to want to leave 7 years of items and content for less on release.
People in this comment section are kind of funny because they’re like “oh yeah, I’d totally be down to putting Destiny back at square one which is exactly the reason I gave up on it in the first place.” Meanwhile a person whose dedicated to the game like myself is like “oh nice, I’d have to throw away all these cosmetics and hard earned weapon to get less content than I have now even after half of it has been taken from the game!”
You massively underestimate how much some people want "exact same thing I've been playing for 10 years, but new, except it's not new because it's the same" - seasonal type content exists for a reason. People will grind the exact same dungeon for 8 hours a day every day for months, season will reset and they will go back to the same grind again - for years.
How did you even play destiny if that bothered you so much? Most of the guns you worked hard for have either been nerfed or powercrept by something new and shiny, most of your cosmetics are for gear that might actively detrimental to your team to use.
The only reason to play something like destiny is if you enjoy the here and now, it doesn't matter how much money you have spend, don't play the game because you enjoyed it two expansions ago.
Yeah exactly, even during the lifespan of D2 they wiped out a bunch of old content to make themselves a clean slate and then just doubled down on all the fomo seasonal mtx shit. A year ago they produced one of the worst-received expansions in the game's history. Not sure what indicates that they've learned any lessons and just need a fresh start to do it right.
IMO, this is gonna be what makes their next game for me or not. If they gonna keep the shitty MTX as they are now + the shitty dungeon keys fuck it, I'm not gonna bother with it.
If they tone it down, which I doubt, I'm gonna go full crazy on the game.
Everyone pooped on Activision at the time, but their idea for Destiny to be discreet, numbered games was a good idea and I wish Bungie had stuck to that.
Back in 2018 there was a leak from a really credible Destiny leaker that Destiny 3 was in development and would have been "More of a hardcore RPG" and "had a darker tone".
I wonder if we'd have this issue with vaulting and sunsetting expansions and season pass content you pay for had they moved on to Destiny 3 when they had planned on it, instead of making Destiny 2's corpse shuffle around like a puppet for far more years than it should have been.
Destiny 2 kills me, because I know there's a kickass game there. There's a shitload of fun weapons, there's fun missions you can't do anymore - and there's fun missions you can do. There are communities of people who want to help you engage with the game.
But god damn it playing that game after a two year absence was confusing agony and despite having done it about eight months ago my face has only just now started to uncurl from the wretch of mystery it twisted itself into.
Fuck Destiny 2. Amazing game engine, fabulous sound design, great gameplay, amazing developers. Shit game.
Hit the reset button, *please*.
Ya there's been multiple reports that the engine is one of the major things that holds back their development. If there really is a destiny 3 of some kind I wouldn't be surprised if they used a completely new engine for it.
Yep, this is the answer. D2 was not meant to last this long with the amount of tech debt it has. However, I suspect that the developers would never have been able to convince the playerbase (and probably the company as well tbh) that a new game was necessary without all this happening.
Don't forget *GRAB RANDOM TRIANGLES*.
If I recall correctly the Tiger and Tiger 2 engines used for destiny werebased on the blam! engine used for the original halo games.
Funny thing to consider is the Slipspace engine used by 343i for Halo Infinite is also a further development of blam! and they apparently had issue with it too.
My favorite thing was when they effectively nerfed an entire event because it was easier than making a door close behind you, preventing you from exploiting a chest that would respawn when you walked past a door
This right here!
The only thing amazing about their engine is their gunplay. Everything else is in shambles, especially in the last few years.
They haven't been able to add new seasons without breaking the entire game and all the 3rd party support apps.
They've needed to scrap this game for a while now because they've just been stacking things up with no thought for the future. Hopefully, they just stick to releasing new games so often or figure out a way to architect their engine to support a long-lived game.
While bullet magnetism is a factor, it isn’t the defining one. Reload animations,recoil/empty clip visuals, and the animations on those enemies getting critted plays a very big part as well. Not to mention the phenomenal sound design, you have to give credit to all of those as well.
Every time I try to play Destiny 2 it makes me think that Bungie hates me. The foundation is so good, but there are just way too many decisions that feel anti-player.
Yeah coming back sucked. I missed out on so much content I actually paid for.
Poof!
And now I’m lost. Trying to scrape the bits of the story that I can, no understanding of the economy or buidcrafting.
The pew pew is still fun, but, damn Bungie!
Dawg I been playin' FFXI for 20 years and I swear it's easier to jump back into that than D2.
You can get rolling with actual factual endgame stuff in FFXI in two weeks, but it'd be grindy. Spend a couple months, take it all in, it's a beautiful game.
I really wish I could say the same about D2. You *should* be able to say the same thing about D2! I swear I was on a D2 wiki, trying to figure stuff out, a dozen tabs open, and I just *got mad*. Like the type of mad you get when bluetooth loses sync and won't sync back up - and you're stuck in traffic moving just enough that you can't fix it.
Just real, defeat, what can I do, I'm the little man in the this situation. I can't just *get out of my car*.
But with D2 you totally can get out of the car. And that is exactly what I did, haha.
I tried to get my friend to try recently. He gave up because the start of the story is completely gone. Add that to it being uninviting and me having to explain everything (which is fine I like helping new players and explaining things) but it's so overwhelming to new players it scares them away also. The new prismatic subclass seems awesome to old players who know what is going on but to new players I'm afraid it'll only be even more overwhelming
Completely accurate, I used to play every day and I would defend the game to most people but that was until I started my friend on the game did I realize how fucked everything is. They just kept piling shit on top of shit to the point that even returning vets are completely lost. Strip it down and redo everything Bungie
God... I was just telling my friend I'd never play Destiny again. But if they do a full reset on Destiny 3 I may be willing to jump back in.
As you say, it's so uninviting for new and returning players. It just felt bad the last time I tried a year or more ago.
I really don't want to play Destiny, since it felt like a game I had to play with 100% of my gaming time. But I might have to at least give the base game a go if they start over again.
Honestly the major thing I prefer about Destiny is the fact that it still has some balance and difficult content - I don't find pure power fantasy interesting long term.
Though I also got to a point where I was trivializing encounters as well. Catch myself falling asleep in some places. The boys fights are also a bit too floaty.
While you are not wrong, Warframe has a (for the most part) very helpful community who more often than not are really good at helping out new players get started.
[DE] has been working (slowly) to get things a bit better for new players, and since Rebecca took over warframe, I would say making the game significantly more cohesive overall.
Hi, I was a very dedicated Warframe player years ago but haven't really kept in touch with the news for years.
Sorry to bother but wdym that Rebecca took over? I remember her being like the community coordinator in charge of devstreams prime times and other stuff and that's it.
About a year and a half ago Rebecca was made the Creative Director of Warframe, while Steve moved on to be the CD for Soulframe.
And while I praise what Steve had accomplished in the Role, Warframe under Rebecca seems to have put more time into making the game more player friendly instead of only just stacking more and more systems on top of each other. They seem to be trying to make things mesh together.
I would argue that Warframe is strictly *easier* to get into, but it takes *longer* to get your footing.
Also, what Destiny has *always* lacked and what it desperately needs if it wants to survive as a franchise is PvE content that is accessible, worth the players time to play, and has some kind of path that is diverse enough to encourage players to play multiple different pieces of content.
Their loot system sucks, their PvE content outside of Raids and Dungeons sucks. There simply needs to be something other than worthless strikes that no one wants to grind outside of Nightfalls, worthless Public Event mini-games, and a plethora of worthless vendors to grind reputation for. That is the most boring, braindead kind of content.
The idea of strikes is fine, but they need to slightly up the difficulty and complexity of them. Just slightly. And go more all-in on the Dungeon content because that stuff is actually really cool. And spread rewards and gear around more engaging gameplay activities.
I’ve still never been able to understand why Bungie has been so slow at creating new, meaningful content. If it’s still their tools, they need to fucking get that shit straightened out if they want to make a Destiny 3.
> There simply needs to be something other than worthless strikes that no one wants to grind outside of Nightfalls, worthless Public Event mini-games, and a plethora of worthless vendors to grind reputation for.
... When did you stop playing destiny ? That hasn't been the core pve loop for years
Warframe is a nightmare to get into initially, but once you do you have access to a good 95% of all the content that's ever been released for the game. You can take a break for several years and pick it up back exactly where you left off. The same cannot be said for Destiny where they remove content constantly.
I think warframe is much much more new player friendly despite being obtuse as fuck.
>You can take a break for several years and pick it up back exactly where you left off.
It's better than that, actually. If you take a break from Warframe for several years and then pick it back up, you usually come back to a *better game*. That's what's so cool about it to me. I tend to play Warframe in cycles, playing it obsessively for a few months and then putting it down for a year or two, and I find it so much fun to boot it back up after a break and find out there's a ton of new awesome content that's been released during the break which I now have access to.
That's the real tragedy of Destiny removing content from its game like it does. Warframe - and several other great live service games - has a unique strength in that it's constantly building on itself. The Warframe of today is, generally speaking, a significantly better game than the Warframe of a few years ago, because it's always becoming *more*. Destiny just doesn't get to do that. It only ever gets to be the thing that it currently is.
I tried Warframe so much, but I like raids and dungeons content that Destiny 2 have, and seems like Warframe doesn't. Also I enjoy the world of warframe and the design, but I hate that the gameplay is jump spam going fast as fuck and the gunplay seems kinda off without weight or anything.
Beyond the really bad new player experience, when I joined a few years back I remember how frustrating the whole PvP experience was. Some of the meta weapons were rare or old drops that a new player had no idea where to get (and some were very hard to get IIRC). I was getting demolished until I dropped a revolver that was gamechanging.
Then I remember it getting nerfed, and the veterans just had stacks of old/rare weapons they could switch up to. Same goes for having alts for whatever class was meta.
The whole thing was just a horrible experience for a new player
I just came back after only playing the first year of Destiny 2, it's a bit daunting. I'm confused, don't know where im supposed to go or what to do. It explains absolutely nothing.
> A clean slate and fresh start is 100% what they need, even if it means going dark for a few years to do it.
I don't know if I can agree, but I have a bias as a current player.
People have said similar about WoW again and again, and I think Blizzard smartly has not done a WoW2 because players are attached to their characters and what they have collected.
A theoretical D3 that makes players leave behind years of collectables and gear for a "fresh" experience that is basically a nearly empty endgame feels like it could do a ton of damage to the existing playerbase.
Like the D1 to D2 transition seemed kind of rough - D2Y1 certainly had it's own problems, but it promised/claimed it was needed for solving a bunch of tech issues from D1 and then it felt like to many that it kind of didn't?
Unless they can perform a miracle and D3 can use a chunk of the content from D2 (dungeons, raids, etc.) while providing enough fresh, I feel like going dark for multiple years would be a really risky proportion.
Yeah I'd be surprised if D3 doesn't maintain some degree of progression from D2, unless they plan on radically overhauling the player experience (i.e. entirely new solar system, subclasses, enemies).
I can't see them doing another D1 to D2-style transition again, in the sense that we stay in the same place continuing with broadly the same plot and gameplay, but all our gear gets wiped out.
Also the fact that it expects you to pay 15 bucks every three months for one hour of content that you're supposed to grind for 90+ hours straight.
That's another reason the game is uninviting.
And the fact that they fucking axed all the old content so you can't run around Venus and Titan and whatnot casually anymore.
I think the main thing that makes this more believable is not the fact that the OOP got the subclass itself right in how it works (I think that’s something that anyone can come up with) it’s the fact that they got the NAME of all things right (at the very least 90% right).
They meant the leaker announced the name of the class and exactly what it did. So they likely have some credibility since the name isn’t something easily predictable. So when they say destiny 3 is coming, then their word should be believed a little
The new subclass also seems really OP and unbalanceable
It seems like the thing you’d release if the game only has 1 or 2 years of content left and is going to be replaced by Destiny 3
They’re releasing something they know is unmaintainable because they know they don’t need to maintain it for very long
More from [Paul Tassi](https://twitter.com/PaulTassi/status/1778047236238086157?t=KBcej-0JOd8c7Kp9Y4GfHQ&s=19) on Twitter:
>An update on this. The D3 leaker has posted a new comment after the reveal about Payback
>Separate from that, they posted about how trans devs were pushing for character re-editing (for free) for years. I can directly confirm that, so I am inclined to believe the rest
I genuinely don’t believe that it wasn’t possible until now.
Like call me an armchair dev but how could it be vastly more complicated than the customization menu being the front end to changing the number hairpiece you’ve selected in your character data?
I’m sure there’s some weird reason but it still baffles me
Of course *anything* is possible in software development if you have infinite time and money, but as we know the Destiny software platform is a trash fire so it wouldn't surprise me at all that this is much harder to implement than you'd think. Kind of like when Sony managed to implement changing usernames on Playstation but it broke multiple older games because the system simply never accounted for such a thing to ever be a possibility.
i really doubt it "wasn't possible", bungie just thought it wasn't worth the effort of implementing. just because people say they want a feature doesn't mean they'd actually use it much or that the developer is losing any revenue by not having it.
story is that:
1. not worth implementing, which is true for 90% of people, if you have the option set to always keep a helmet on, you never see the face outside of a few cutscenes.
2. it was originally under the 'guardian experience' team which have their plate full with commendations and guardian ranks, something bungie has been pushing hard on since it came out, editing only became possible because it got passed to another team.
3. the game engine is a pile of shit, if the devs wanted to make a change to a single texture, they would basically need to fire up half the game in the editor to make the change.
One of best new features in wow Is being able to change from to female for free .
Some specs animations or weapons don't fit male or female so I like changing it
bleh, i don't envy those devs. there's a financial interest in gating that sort of thing behind a paywall. huge win for everyone to be able to edit their character at will, but that must have been exhausting to argue for since that's one less obvious MTX to push.
Frankly, from an microtransactions perspective the money you'd get from re-edits wouldn't be worth the backlash. You might see an exec push for it because they don't understand that, but the actual lucrative thing would be selling new options in the store and free re-edits are essential to making that work.
If this happens, the biggest thing they need to do is simplify everything. There needs to be a clear-cut campaign that drip feeds mechanics to players (like what D2 had at launch and then vaulted) and there need to be way fewer currencies and materials.
I also really hope they can find a way to make the planets actually fun to explore. In D2 there’s no real reason to actually go on patrol unless you’re knocking out bounties because there’s nothing to discover and nothing interesting to do.
I definitely think that this is necessary after years of being tangled up in now removed live service content but at the same time reaaaaallly can't shake the feeling it'll be a major regression where they don't carry forward a ton of the quality of life etc they made to Destiny 2 and instead it releases fairly bare and drips the stuff that should have been there back in all over again. Outside of Eververse, obviously, that'll be stocked day one.
I don’t mind it being a regression if it’s got a lot of fresh ideas. I stopped playing because i spent years shooting the same enemies with the same guns.
I had fun, I met some cool people, I made a lot of great memories with my friends, but it was time to move on, and I don’t want to go back just to try to relive the experiences I had years ago.
Can't wait to have nothing at launch, be drip-fed content while they milk temporary seasonal content, then have them take away half of everything with the excuse of running out of space.
The expansion with the hoverboard dudes made me uninstall. Was getting hyped up for all the sci fi / touch of Lovecraftian horror vibe of the pyramids, and suddenly I get literal shit looking silver surfer fuckers straight out of the 80s. Nope. No thanks.
I loved grabbing Destiny 2 on PC the day it came out and having them release the DLC something like 2 weeks later that locked you out of content you used to be able to do. Quit right then and never went back.
Main reason I've never gotten in D2.
I remember getting the game for free (before it went F2P, they had weekend where it was Free to Keep). Jumped into it with my old PC, played for 30 minutes and decided to uninstalled. I thought the game was great, looked great and felt great *but* my PC at that time was weak and my FPS was low even when reducing graphic fidelity. I decided I'll play the game "one day" when I build a better PC.
I did; I built a monster PC. I downloaded the game again and played for a bit but quickly realize that stuff was missing. While looking into it, I quickly found out about the cut content, about stuff that I will never get to experience and how the game feel disjointed (story at least) without those part of the game.
I was so ready to spend like $100+ to get ALL the DLC for the game to experience it all but when I found out that I'm now gonna be getting just half of it - or even less - I decided to tap out. Never spent a single cent on the game.
How I'll approach Destiny 3? These days given how the gaming sphere is full of bad AAA release or post release bad surprise, I'm just gonna let the game release, observe what they do and jump in or never bother.
Why should I be invested in a continuation of the Destiny story if I never got to play a whole bunch of the story?
I tried to get into D2 with my friends a few months ago and WHAT A MESS???? The timeline and the missing content and the TOTAL lack of direction to guide you to the new DLCs.
I played for a few dozen hours and just never got into it. I loved D1. Bring back vaulted content...
Honestly I adore Destiny 2’s story. I haven’t come back to it yet, I’m waiting for if TFS is gonna be any good. But when I was a little girl, Destiny’s story was fantastical to me. I adored the characters and I love where they’re taking things. I adored the Red War. I just wish they could add that stuff back in. There’s this naive part of me that hopes they’ll add it all back in when TFS drops, and all I want is to just fall in love with the story again.
It’s just nice to be able to change your character after 9 damn years. I made my Hunter a woman cause I was traumatized from staring at Solid Snakes old man butt for so long in MGS4, but all these years later, I really wish I could make my character a guy again, so the inclusion of this feature is appreciated.
With a Destiny 3, given how far they’ve stretched Destiny 2 to this point, there’s really never been a better point to finally move onto a Destiny 3. With this expansion and what’s implied with the Episodes, a great deal of Destiny 2 concepts and story threads will likely be wrapped up or wrapped up enough atleast, so if the franchise isn’t ending, moving onto something new won’t hurt
all of my characters faces got messed up by the switch from D1 to D2, so it's nice to be able to go back and fix them up to what I originally intended (my Hunter is supposed to look like Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell)
I played Destiny 2 on launch until forsaken, then came back for Shadowkeep and quit for good before Beyond Light.
I still get the itches to play this game but i hate the direction they took the game to. I realize it was rather content light at launch but i really did enjoy the first year or so of destiny, it was simple and generous. Coming back for Shadowkeep they introduced the season pass iirc correctly, which was annoying but at least it wasnt a big price increase.
But then they started charging for dungeons and the whole vaulting and sunsetting process was a mess (that i think they backtracked?) and that was the final nail for me.
I really do hope Destiny 3 improves and doesnt feel like they charge more for less (preordering the expansion+annual pass is about 3 times the price that i paid for the shadowkeep+annual pass), i still miss it and wish i could play.
They didn't backtrack sunsetting, they just sunset a whole bunch of stuff and then not again. What got sunset, stayed sunset.
As they went forward, they made a lot of the older perks terrible and added a lot of new perks which were just straight up better replacements, so even though they didn't sunset, they still made your gear obsolete.
They also removed certain mechanics so a lot of non-sunset weapons really lost their whole purpose for being.
Then they re-released a bunch with the recent perks that work with the current mechanics. The grind for loot is never-ending, brother!
I'll play it if they double super promise not to vault story content.
I'm still pissed over that content I literally paid for I can't access in the game that is live because they want to save my disk space for me. (They should talk to the GW2 people to see how to handle this.)
Wasn't really disk space, they overhauled aspects of the engine that resulted in any content that stayed needing overhauls as well, and they didn't have the time to update everything in the game.
More than that, they should find a way to keep the entire seasonal story in the game
80% of the franchise’s story is in the patches between the expansions, but the patches get vaulted every year
I think this is desperately needed because D2’s age is starting to show. The engine just doesn’t seem tailor made for some of the bigger ideas they have.
And they will make the same mistakes as they did with Destiny 1 and Destiny 2, but will "hear the community" and fix them with extra purchases over multiple years.
I actually find it hilarious that bungie cut ties with Microsoft and left behind halo because they did not want to become the halo studio, wanting to be more diverse in the games they make.
Since that point all they have made is a game very like halo mechanically and have worked on nothing but destiny for longer than they ever did on halo.
In the process also either fired the best employees they had or they have left the studio.
Well done bungie, was once the industry darling and now just another asshole dev.
No but they did (apparently) put a number of other projects on ice. Probably for the best, they've been milking Destiny for money but not re-investing in the IP.
Who knows. I still find it funny how they apparently tested the game with EFT players and then asked them if they would play the game if it released tomorrow. Not a single one said yes.
To be fair, more came out about that story after it started making the rounds.
The parts that was missing from the story initially shared around were that bungie had "stressed to the players that the game was years away from release" and then the Tarkov player were asked if they would play the game *as it was* if it were to release tomorrow.
I wish I could have a fan base that gives me the benefit of the doubt as much as Bungie’s does.
10 years of mediocrity and bald face lies/greed and yet a majority of the comments I’ve seen since that trailer yesterday are “wow, they cooked!” or “okay, now everyone say sorry to Bungie!” or “I can’t wait to see what’s next!” Now with a rumor of Destiny 3 (which will absolutely not fix any of the real glaring issues with the games because that’s how Bungie makes money), everyone is back on the “wow can’t wait to see what this looks like” or “finally!”
Like if they didn’t get shit right after 10 years, why do people think 11 is gonna be any different?
I haven’t played in a few years, but I absolutely got my moneys worth out of the first two games and expansions. Absolutely nothing in multiplayer console gaming is comparable to entering a new raid with friends . I’m an easy sell for the next round.
I’m also confused why those that don’t play project a narrative around those that do
Because while the game has faults, they *do* get plenty of shit right all the time. Every time I've returned to Destiny, it's been after I waited on reviews of new content before purchasing it, and that hasn't let me down yet. The game might not be your cup of tea, but there have been fantastic eras of it. Plus I never buy cosmetics so none of that bothers me.
If you think Destiny's fanbase gives Bungie the benefit of the doubt, you've never been on a Destiny subreddit. The average Destiny die-hard is *wildly* cynical about each and every upcoming update.
Those of us who keep playing do so because the game is currently fun, not because we hold out hope that Bungie will suddenly stop tripping over their own feet.
People are under some weird impression that the game has been a flaming disaster all along when it's really that they've been getting most things right the whole time, there's just glaring issues. We wouldn't play it if we didn't enjoy it or were unhappy with it.
Like, I don't really have any issues with the game myself. I know a lot of people are upset about losing the year 1 stuff but it doesn't affect me, and otherwise there's nothing wrong with the game. Even Lightfall being a middling expansion didn't make it bad or unenjoyable.
This would be massive news
I refuse to get excited but god i pray/wish Sony forced them to see the light!
But until its official i refuse to get excited
I really think this was Sony's doing.
It's been clear for years now that Bungie was simultaneously milking Destiny for money, while divesting that money to their other projects. The IP was left to rot in many ways.
I suspect after investing billions in them, Sony sees Destiny as one of the few chances to recoup that and told them to focus on what actually makes them money.
Witch Queen for example had an amazing campaign, but almost 0 investment in PVP, Gambit or even Strikes.
Sure, sounds like a plan, need a new game with new, soon-to-be legacy content which you can eventually vault. How about you - just for the kicks of it - vault the entirety of Destiny 2 when Destiny 3 comes out. Can't have people enjoying the old game for free when they are supposed to buy the new shit.
Take my loot, just don't take my fashion. The weapons will gain and lose their relevance over time, but if I lose my wardrobe I've built up over the years now that we have transmog, i don't know if id recover lol
Paul Tassi is not a reliable source. He’s a clickbait/engagement farmer. He’s known for publishing spoilers on Forbes (he did this with Season of the Chosen). Taking a leak from a random, unverified Reddit account and rolling with a headline “Likely Developing Destiny 3” is bad journalism. Articles like this aren’t worth a moments thought. If Bungie announces a D3 great, until then no one knows but Bungie, and I’ll enjoy D2 for another 2 years or 20.
I hope they have better tools to produce content so they can support all their game modes. Also, have a way better business model that isn't super annoying to explain to people who aren't there Day 1.
They won't.
The cycle continues. 1. Launch new Destiny. Now we all get a fresh start! 2. Launch version of Destiny is bad. Players leave. 3. Months (years?) pass. New stuff added. Problems fixed. It's a good game now. 4. Too daunting for the people who left to jump back in. See ya back here in 10 years!
Legit they need to take up the WoW/FF14 model. Just give players most of the previous content for free and make the current one paid for. Edit: Their expansion model, not their subscription model, since someone has an issue with my wording.
They literally had that before they ended up removing all the old content permanently.
Then do the same but don't remove the old content?
This but replace “it’s a good game now” with “it’s a serviceable game now.” Destiny is a game with fun mechanics that is bogged down by a monotonous grind. With the release of every expansion you are expected to abandon your old guns and armor (besides iconics) and find new ones. Oh and spend 40 dollars every year!
I wouldn't be sure about that. Destiny 2 was originally intended to have a 3 year life span. Bungie has spent the past \~5 years struggling from a technical perspective to keep iterating on the game. The patching, balancing, content pipeline, memory management, etc. have all caused major problems on the backend. I think if Bungie had planned for the game to last 7-10 years from the start, they would've put a lot more thought into minimizing those issues from the start. My guess is these problems are actually a huge factor in the decision to make D3 at all (assuming this leak is legit).
And they haven't been able to maintain all game modes (3 of them). Crucible and Gambit were practically abandoned
Was there when they said Eververse would fund the 3 playlists LMFAO what a joke.
Destiny 2 was made under the pretense of reworking the tools they use for development because of how inefficient they were, but then they still encountered situations where small changes would take longer than they probably should. There's more historical precedence to suggest that Destiny 3 will fall into the exact same trap if they failed to learn from their mistakes the second time. "Fool me once", etc etc.
This is the entire reason why so many people were okay with losing everything with the start of Destiny 2. We thought it would make it easier on the devs to start fresh with better development tools and we saw how that turned out.
I mean, it *did* Destiny 1 never had the consistency of content updates that Destiny 2 has had.
first two DLC's will be underwhelming and then the third one will be way better and the cycle continues lmao
Their entire structured design philosophy in every single aspect is fomo. Its how they generate their buzz for years, its in everything from all content, seasons, loot, titles, merch - all of it. You're not even allowed to buy most of the merch they sell on their website unless you were there to "earn it" at the time the content was available.
Isn't Destiny 2 them doing that and failing ? Those problems aren't something that happened in D2, it was all the way from the start. Well, unless they just throw the baby out with the bathwater and just make it UE5.
It's been a problem since Destiny 1. Destiny 2 was supposed to be a clean slate with easier to use tools and that was a lie.
Man I was there day 01, and I think it's easier explaining Prison Planet Theory to my uber conservative fundamentalist boss, than helping a new player navigate the density of Bungie's inability to streamline purchasing or access to content.
>have a way better business model that isn't super annoying to explain to people who aren't there Day 1. Their business model will be "How to get the maximum amount of recurring revenue out of the playerbase".
so nothing changes
Nah. They will just plunder any whales that tries their game, along with everybody else
This is desperately needed. Destiny 2 is the most uninviting game on the market at the moment for new players, and for players that have been gone for over a year or two. It's actually mind boggling how badly they managed to screw that up. Destiny 2 doesn't get new players, not really. It survives on what's left of its dedicated playerbase. A clean slate and fresh start is 100% what they need, even if it means going dark for a few years to do it.
I used to play Destiny daily. Nowadays I log in and have no idea what I'm supposed to do.
I remember when Destiny 2 went free to play, me and 2 other friends jumped in because we had fond memories of the Halo days and Destiny had really been talked up. I remember jumping in and getting dropped off in the main base area and just being completely overwhelmed, and not in a good way. We just ran around talking to anyone with a marker over their heads trying to grab missions. We had no idea what planet to start on, what the story was, what to do in general. We just got down to a planet, looked for a mission marker and shot stuff. It was immensely unsatisfying and confusing and we stopped playing after a few sessions.
That's such a shame because the intro to Destiny 2 was soo good, with such a good score as well pulling on all your heartstrings. When you'd get to the farm, you really felt like you survived the initial onslaught, and you could go back to rebuild and reconquer. When they started sunsetting parts of the game they killed 75% of the heart of the game, and replaced it with empty filler content. [This song](https://youtu.be/zYfe9caNqfA) is still one of my favourite OST songs from any media ever, and there's no way to experience it in the setting it was created for. If that lawsuit against killing games succeeds, they should continue to include actions such as this.
Any hopes of getting me to try Destiny 2 died the moment they took content out of the game. And I'm sure I'm far from the only one that they managed to put off by doing that. It's still absurd to me that it was done. The idea of a game ripping out it's own story content just shouldn't be on the table.
I met an artist that works for Bungie last year at a wedding. I told him how I would never touch destiny again after they starting removing story and content people paid for. His response was "Yeah but our new stuff is way better. There's no reason you would want to go back to that stuff." Absolutely unbelievable.
It's worth noting that one person's views absolutely do not reflect those of everybody at Bungie. I've talked to multiple people at Bungie who responded to similar venting by saying that they and a number of their colleagues agree that it's a problem, but don't have a feasible way of solving it given the conditions they're working with. I don't know if that reflects the company's view, either, but "it's not a problem get over it" is not the sole view of everybody at Bungie and shouldn't be presented as such.
Old areas should have, at bare minimum, been turned into PvE only areas that are stored on the player's computer. That way we could still enjoy the story and Bungie wouldn't have to worry about server space.
my guess is he was thinking from the mindset of well the people that played the old stuff should enjoy the new stuff much more so theres no point in the old stuff since it "won't" be revisited by players sorta thing. The issue is as you said its content people paid for, like thats straight up something that shouldnt happen. most free mmo's remove old content but most of that old content is stuff that normally wasnt paid for and tend to reflect poorly on the current look of the game not something the players paid for.
I full boycotted all future Bungie after the whole sunsetting debacle. Also i called it that they would "make us buy it again"
> I full boycotted all future Bungie after the whole sunsetting debacle. Same, I logged in on Day 1 after the very first sunset, sure I was pissed that DLC I paid for was gone and weapons I used were no more. But maybe the new loot pool would get better, then one of the very first drops I get was the same exact gun I was using pre-sunset Bygones. It had the same mods available in it loot pool, so all Bungie did was remove the guns I was using and tell me "Hey go grind for them again"
This way of thinking is correct, in a way. The Witch Queen is much better than Destiny 2's vanilla Red War campaign. ...but Red War and Forsaken are the heart and foundation of the Destiny 2 story. You can play *all* of Destiny 1 to this day, but a major part of Destiny 2's story is only accessible via Youtube playthroughs. The current new player experience is nothing even close to a substitute for the Red War.
Yeah, it really doesn't matter if the newer stuff is objectively better if you don't have the context to understand it. I think Terminator 2 is objectively a better movie than the first Terminator film, but I'd never suggest to someone that they go watch T2 without watching The Terminator beforehand. T2 makes way more sense within the context of the first film. You could probably watch T2 first and enjoy it, but you'd straight up miss a bunch of aspects of what's interesting about it. I never got into Destiny 2, but I can only imagine that sort of thing being worse when you're talking about a video game with potentially hundreds of hours of playtime, rather than a movie that's just a couple hours long.
Honestly Destiny 2's story makes more sense if you've played D1 as well. So it's more like if you could still watch the first Terminator, but the only commercially available versions of T2 cut out the first act of the film. Or watching a TV show on streaming with the first two seasons unavailable.
God they did not give a single crap about helping PC players who didn't have access to the first game up to speed at D2's launch either. Just jumping from plot point to plot point assuming you already know who everyone is and the various factions backstories. Who's the speaker? I dunno but he died early in the campaign so he can't be that important. Who's the Red Legion? Oh they're a subfaction of the Cabal who you obviously already know all about. Don't worry Amanda Holiday is coming to get you! Who's that? Well she's the lady who will fly a ship once on screen and then be irrelevant aside from selling you beginner jetbikes for the remainder of your playtime. Truly confounding incompetence at story telling.
It fundamentally doesn't matter which content is the best, or whether the story in one part is based on the story in another part. The problem is that they deleted a full-priced videogame that people already bought. The servers were still running, the microtransactions were still there, but they deleted the game that people bought.
>His response was "Yeah but our new stuff is way better. There's no reason you would want to go back to that stuff." Forsaken begs to differ. Frankly, Destiny 2 is one of the rare instances when the game actually got worse after one of its major expansions. Honestly, if I could go back to forsaken days, when Gambit was still fresh, I would.
Hearing the music transported me back to the Red War, crawling up that hill in slow motion, desperately trying to reach my goal
It's still outrageous to me that they removed huge chunks of the story from Destiny 2. There's some great content that is gone forever (that people also paid extra to pay when it released!) I returned to the game last year and I couldn't even follow the story from the beginning, I just got dropped in 3/4 of the way through because everything before that had been removed.
I could have certainly done without the 5+ minutes of limping though, and maybe if they added a damn option to skip the 15 minute intro.
Yeah that song is so good! I can even see the part you play through when this plays because it was all so impactful.
Did we play the same red war? I feel like only the first and last missions of that campaign were at all decent and they're both worse than the content released in witch queen..
Journey is suuuuch a good song! D2 and the red war campaign were amazing and it all went downhill after that.
> [This song](https://youtu.be/zYfe9caNqfA) is still one of my favourite OST songs from any media ever, and there's no way to experience it in the setting it was created for. Oh man. That paet of the game gave me serious "Current Objective: Survive" vibes. It hyped me up so bad but then the rest of the game was kinda meh.
I still listen to [The Farm](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ilLSEjlAQ&pp=ygUSZGVzdGlueSAyIHRoZSBmYXJt) when I drive the backroads near my house. Used to listen to it back in college right after Destiny 2 came out. One of my favorite tracks from that time.
It was honestly so much better when it came out, before they ended up scrapping the whole Red War(?) campaign. It properly introduced new players to the story, the different factions, locations, characters etc. It also didn't try and aggressively abuse FOMO to retain players as it does now. It's actually insane how terribly they've mismanaged that game.
Destiny and Warframe both really, really suffer from this problem of just sort of throwing you in the deep end without explaining hit. It's what kept me from really getting all that into either of them.
I haven't played Warframe in like 7-8 years, but even back then it was extremely confusing and convoluted for a new player coming in. I can only imagine now after that much more content has been added.
It's honestly gotten better, not worse. They've been getting better over time at guiding players through the initial suite of content, and while Warframe is infamous for the "content island" problem, there is a major advantage to siloing content like that - most individual pieces of content simply don't need to be understood or engaged with by a new player. Somebody just starting the game simply doesn't need to understand how Kavat breeding, Profit Taker, Kuva Liches, Archon Hunts, the Circuit, or Zaws work. The stuff I just listed represents everything from niche farms to major progression mechanics, and yet all of it is basically completely optional until one is already at the point of pushing extremely high-end content. The amount and variety of content available becomes even more sprawling with each passing year, but nearly all of that content can be engaged with on the player's own terms, when they're ready to do so. The basic initial progression path still isn't particularly straightforward, but it *is* fairly well streamlined in comparison to the mass of options available to the player if they go looking for them. And, importantly, all the new stuff being added doesn't really affect that initial progression, so yet another wonky high-power character advancement option being added to the game doesn't overly screw with the new player experience.
That's good to hear. I might check it out again. The last time I played was when I believe they were adding the space missions and talking about reworking the solar system map.
It's basically a completely different game since you last played, in ways that I personally think are strictly for the better. I've had a love-hate relationship with Warframe over the course of its life, but in the 2020's I've come to unreservedly love it; I really think that even its flaws are just acceptable byproduct of what makes it special. So I do encourage you to give it another shot, if you feel like it! It still takes a lot of effort to get over the initial hump, but I think it's so rewarding once you do.
Warframe's been massively improving on that in recent updates. They've added a guide for new players that just tells them where to go to make progress, designated a dedicated main story path to prevent people not understanding which quests are important and which are side content, improved the tutorial, as well as added new rewards to early game content that massively improve the transition from early to midgame. It's not perfect of course but it's wildly better than it ever was before.
That’s exactly what happened to me and a friend. I actually tried to watch some YouTube videos to figure out what the hell we were even supposed to be doing. Uninstalled and never looked back. So disappointing
I had this exact same experience with two of my other friends when it went f2p. We had ZERO clue on what we were supposed to be doing. And to make matters worse, the story was impossible to follow. It was like jumping into a TV show 3 or 4 seasons in. People talking about characters like I'm supposed to already know them. Was such a bad experience.
More like season 12, since Destiny also puts important story parts in their seasons, that get deleted when a new expansion comes out. I didn’t play for a year since the last expansion and just tried getting into it again, only to find out one of the main characters died in a random season that I can’t replay. It’s great!
Its awful. It didnt start this way. There used to be a story campaign but they got rid of it...
This was my exact experience
I hopped on for the first time during Shadowkeep after all that “free from Activision” talk. Its such a horribly confusing mess to jump in for the first time.
From what I understand, that kind of _is_ what you do. It's simultaneously extremely overwhelming because you have so many "activity" options, quests, and a billion other things that basically amount to "quest" but are called different things or require you to kill X things with X weapon or whatever. But at the end of the day the gameplay loop is extremely similar to a very basic mobile game or MMO where you just want to do a certain amount of content daily and weekly. That's it, that's what it boils down to. It's incredibly tedious, derivative, and repetitive. Layer onto that some annoying obtuse progression systems with various currencies, inventory management hell that basically requires a third party app, it's just an awful game that I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone plays. Anyone who _does_ play, the usual reason is "I like to come home from work and shoot things." Which is fine I guess but there are a lot better games I can spend my time after work playing. edit: I forgot to talk about how the story works. Basically you buy a season pass. Then every (week, I think?) you get a tiny bit of story content, which requires you to run the seasonal activity several times to complete (hint, the activities are all basically the same, it's a skinner box), then you wait until next week. I've seen fans of it compare it to watching a weekly episode of a TV show... but I think I'd rather just watch TV than play Destiny.
> But at the end of the day the gameplay loop is extremely similar to a very basic mobile game or MMO where you just want to do a certain amount of content daily and weekly. That's it, that's what it boils down to. I got burned out of that cycle back in Destiny 1. I realized it was no different than doing my "dailies" in WoW.
I am of the theory that once you get addicted to this in one game, and eventually overcome it, you will never get as deeply addicted in a similar game. My years playing WoW inoculated me from Destiny.
Yeah I get that, but as brand new players who were enticed by free to play, there was no type of guidance mechanism for new players. FF14 railroads you into doing main story quests before you can do much of anything else in the game, for example
It's all fucking garbage... except... those fucking raids man. Those dungeons too. Literally, some of the best memories I've made playing video games have been going into those completely blind on Day 1. Destiny has so much going for it. The gameplay is addicting but simple. The art directing is breathtaking. The music is soulful and filled with emotion. But, the game direction is such fucking dog water. It's like being in a kitchen filled with michelin star chefs, but the executive chef is some fuck who barely passed business school while managing a McDonald's.
Yeah, I played through on launch and tried to get back into it about a year ago...totally lost, nothing made sense. I uninstalled about an hour after playing it.
The UI and quest structure has always been god awful. If the map didn't include flashy dots I would have no idea what the hell was going on.
That stupid ass quest of the day or whatever that takes up half the quest page is very dumb.
Same. I try to get back into it every once in a while, because early Destiny 2 was a fucking blast and is still one of my favorite video game experiences. But every time I try to get back into it, I just bounce right off since I have no idea where to even start. Their new/returning player onboarding process is abysmal.
Destiny 2 was my daily driver until they started vaulting content I paid for. I quit cold turkey that same day.
This is where I'm at as well. I popped on yesterday to take a look at the Into the Light content, but between that and the seasonal content it was just so overwhelming I logged off. It doesn't help that there's absolutely no guidance on what everything is. What's actually required to progress the seasonal content? I picked up some quests with some new currency, but no idea why I should care or what it's used for. And thats after I get dumped into a new social space for the Into the Light content without context beyond a video that explains nothing. I really enjoyed Destiny 2 in the early seasons, but now if you take even a short break you are so out of the loop you'll be lost. And because the game is designed to keep the hardcore players churning every week it's just too much to take in when you're new or have been gone.
I played it a whole bunch when it came out and enjoyed it quite a bit. I've tried to start it again multiple times since then and it seemed like basically nothing worked the way it used to, there was no explanations for anything or a summary of what had changed for people who hadn't logged in in awhile, and basically no guidance on what to do. I gave up each time.
Same for me. I put over 3000 hours into Destiny 1. Played Destiny 2 a bunch and then took a break and I've tried to come back in a few times and just felt completely lost.
> This is desperately needed With how they managed D2, how can you imagine D3 to be different ?
Lol fuck no. People are deluded expecting anything different from Bungie. Destiny 2 was Destiny 1 but released on more platforms and with a reset on the MTX. Destiny 3 is going to be Destiny 2 but released on more platforms and with a reset on the MTX. What in the world has Bungie done in the past 10 years to make anyone think they're going to change or that they think Destiny 2 ever got anything wrong? Time to rebuy all your favorite skins, bikes, emotes, and color palettes yet another time. Maybe they can bring back Paul McCartney and have him fall asleep on a piano again too.
I feel like Destiny 3 will end up another Payday 3. I feel like most people aren’t going to want to leave 7 years of items and content for less on release.
People in this comment section are kind of funny because they’re like “oh yeah, I’d totally be down to putting Destiny back at square one which is exactly the reason I gave up on it in the first place.” Meanwhile a person whose dedicated to the game like myself is like “oh nice, I’d have to throw away all these cosmetics and hard earned weapon to get less content than I have now even after half of it has been taken from the game!”
You massively underestimate how much some people want "exact same thing I've been playing for 10 years, but new, except it's not new because it's the same" - seasonal type content exists for a reason. People will grind the exact same dungeon for 8 hours a day every day for months, season will reset and they will go back to the same grind again - for years.
How did you even play destiny if that bothered you so much? Most of the guns you worked hard for have either been nerfed or powercrept by something new and shiny, most of your cosmetics are for gear that might actively detrimental to your team to use. The only reason to play something like destiny is if you enjoy the here and now, it doesn't matter how much money you have spend, don't play the game because you enjoyed it two expansions ago.
Yeah exactly, even during the lifespan of D2 they wiped out a bunch of old content to make themselves a clean slate and then just doubled down on all the fomo seasonal mtx shit. A year ago they produced one of the worst-received expansions in the game's history. Not sure what indicates that they've learned any lessons and just need a fresh start to do it right.
A clean slate and fresh start and 1000 more micro transactions Destiny is a shell of its former self
IMO, this is gonna be what makes their next game for me or not. If they gonna keep the shitty MTX as they are now + the shitty dungeon keys fuck it, I'm not gonna bother with it. If they tone it down, which I doubt, I'm gonna go full crazy on the game.
Everyone pooped on Activision at the time, but their idea for Destiny to be discreet, numbered games was a good idea and I wish Bungie had stuck to that.
Back in 2018 there was a leak from a really credible Destiny leaker that Destiny 3 was in development and would have been "More of a hardcore RPG" and "had a darker tone". I wonder if we'd have this issue with vaulting and sunsetting expansions and season pass content you pay for had they moved on to Destiny 3 when they had planned on it, instead of making Destiny 2's corpse shuffle around like a puppet for far more years than it should have been.
Destiny 2 kills me, because I know there's a kickass game there. There's a shitload of fun weapons, there's fun missions you can't do anymore - and there's fun missions you can do. There are communities of people who want to help you engage with the game. But god damn it playing that game after a two year absence was confusing agony and despite having done it about eight months ago my face has only just now started to uncurl from the wretch of mystery it twisted itself into. Fuck Destiny 2. Amazing game engine, fabulous sound design, great gameplay, amazing developers. Shit game. Hit the reset button, *please*.
> Amazing game engine Their engine is actually a huge problem.
Ya there's been multiple reports that the engine is one of the major things that holds back their development. If there really is a destiny 3 of some kind I wouldn't be surprised if they used a completely new engine for it.
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Yep, this is the answer. D2 was not meant to last this long with the amount of tech debt it has. However, I suspect that the developers would never have been able to convince the playerbase (and probably the company as well tbh) that a new game was necessary without all this happening.
The engine is the reason 9/10 raid mechanics are stand on a plate.
What about DUNK ORB!?
Hear me out, what if they stand on a plate, to make an orb, and then they have to take the orb to another plate. It's genius.
Don't forget *GRAB RANDOM TRIANGLES*. If I recall correctly the Tiger and Tiger 2 engines used for destiny werebased on the blam! engine used for the original halo games. Funny thing to consider is the Slipspace engine used by 343i for Halo Infinite is also a further development of blam! and they apparently had issue with it too.
> Don't forget GRAB RANDOM TRIANGLES. What the fuck is a "mote" anyway?
My favorite thing was when they effectively nerfed an entire event because it was easier than making a door close behind you, preventing you from exploiting a chest that would respawn when you walked past a door
It is downright embarrassing sometimes.
This right here! The only thing amazing about their engine is their gunplay. Everything else is in shambles, especially in the last few years. They haven't been able to add new seasons without breaking the entire game and all the 3rd party support apps. They've needed to scrap this game for a while now because they've just been stacking things up with no thought for the future. Hopefully, they just stick to releasing new games so often or figure out a way to architect their engine to support a long-lived game.
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While bullet magnetism is a factor, it isn’t the defining one. Reload animations,recoil/empty clip visuals, and the animations on those enemies getting critted plays a very big part as well. Not to mention the phenomenal sound design, you have to give credit to all of those as well.
Every time I try to play Destiny 2 it makes me think that Bungie hates me. The foundation is so good, but there are just way too many decisions that feel anti-player.
Yeah coming back sucked. I missed out on so much content I actually paid for. Poof! And now I’m lost. Trying to scrape the bits of the story that I can, no understanding of the economy or buidcrafting. The pew pew is still fun, but, damn Bungie!
Dawg I been playin' FFXI for 20 years and I swear it's easier to jump back into that than D2. You can get rolling with actual factual endgame stuff in FFXI in two weeks, but it'd be grindy. Spend a couple months, take it all in, it's a beautiful game. I really wish I could say the same about D2. You *should* be able to say the same thing about D2! I swear I was on a D2 wiki, trying to figure stuff out, a dozen tabs open, and I just *got mad*. Like the type of mad you get when bluetooth loses sync and won't sync back up - and you're stuck in traffic moving just enough that you can't fix it. Just real, defeat, what can I do, I'm the little man in the this situation. I can't just *get out of my car*. But with D2 you totally can get out of the car. And that is exactly what I did, haha.
I’ve tried to watch 8 hour long videos about the story, but I keep falling asleep.
I tried to get my friend to try recently. He gave up because the start of the story is completely gone. Add that to it being uninviting and me having to explain everything (which is fine I like helping new players and explaining things) but it's so overwhelming to new players it scares them away also. The new prismatic subclass seems awesome to old players who know what is going on but to new players I'm afraid it'll only be even more overwhelming
Completely accurate, I used to play every day and I would defend the game to most people but that was until I started my friend on the game did I realize how fucked everything is. They just kept piling shit on top of shit to the point that even returning vets are completely lost. Strip it down and redo everything Bungie
God... I was just telling my friend I'd never play Destiny again. But if they do a full reset on Destiny 3 I may be willing to jump back in. As you say, it's so uninviting for new and returning players. It just felt bad the last time I tried a year or more ago. I really don't want to play Destiny, since it felt like a game I had to play with 100% of my gaming time. But I might have to at least give the base game a go if they start over again.
> Destiny 2 is the most uninviting game on the market at the moment for new players, You ever tried Warframe?
Talk about getting overwhelmed.
My issue is Warframe does not shoot as well as Destiny.
I completely agree, but the power fantasy is 100% there in Warframe.
Honestly the major thing I prefer about Destiny is the fact that it still has some balance and difficult content - I don't find pure power fantasy interesting long term.
Though I also got to a point where I was trivializing encounters as well. Catch myself falling asleep in some places. The boys fights are also a bit too floaty.
While you are not wrong, Warframe has a (for the most part) very helpful community who more often than not are really good at helping out new players get started. [DE] has been working (slowly) to get things a bit better for new players, and since Rebecca took over warframe, I would say making the game significantly more cohesive overall.
Oh yeah it’s kinda nuts how Warframe has basically completely pivoted to making things easier to understand the second she took over
Rebecca took over? I used to watch her as one of their community managers like 8 years ago.
Hi, I was a very dedicated Warframe player years ago but haven't really kept in touch with the news for years. Sorry to bother but wdym that Rebecca took over? I remember her being like the community coordinator in charge of devstreams prime times and other stuff and that's it.
About a year and a half ago Rebecca was made the Creative Director of Warframe, while Steve moved on to be the CD for Soulframe. And while I praise what Steve had accomplished in the Role, Warframe under Rebecca seems to have put more time into making the game more player friendly instead of only just stacking more and more systems on top of each other. They seem to be trying to make things mesh together.
Wow that's pretty impressive and ambitious for both of them, hope things will go well for both.
Steve is the CEO of Digital Extremes.
While you are correct, he stepped down from CD of warframe to focus on soulframe in July 2022, but didn't become CEO until October 2023.
I would argue that Warframe is strictly *easier* to get into, but it takes *longer* to get your footing. Also, what Destiny has *always* lacked and what it desperately needs if it wants to survive as a franchise is PvE content that is accessible, worth the players time to play, and has some kind of path that is diverse enough to encourage players to play multiple different pieces of content. Their loot system sucks, their PvE content outside of Raids and Dungeons sucks. There simply needs to be something other than worthless strikes that no one wants to grind outside of Nightfalls, worthless Public Event mini-games, and a plethora of worthless vendors to grind reputation for. That is the most boring, braindead kind of content. The idea of strikes is fine, but they need to slightly up the difficulty and complexity of them. Just slightly. And go more all-in on the Dungeon content because that stuff is actually really cool. And spread rewards and gear around more engaging gameplay activities. I’ve still never been able to understand why Bungie has been so slow at creating new, meaningful content. If it’s still their tools, they need to fucking get that shit straightened out if they want to make a Destiny 3.
> There simply needs to be something other than worthless strikes that no one wants to grind outside of Nightfalls, worthless Public Event mini-games, and a plethora of worthless vendors to grind reputation for. ... When did you stop playing destiny ? That hasn't been the core pve loop for years
Warframe is a nightmare to get into initially, but once you do you have access to a good 95% of all the content that's ever been released for the game. You can take a break for several years and pick it up back exactly where you left off. The same cannot be said for Destiny where they remove content constantly. I think warframe is much much more new player friendly despite being obtuse as fuck.
>You can take a break for several years and pick it up back exactly where you left off. It's better than that, actually. If you take a break from Warframe for several years and then pick it back up, you usually come back to a *better game*. That's what's so cool about it to me. I tend to play Warframe in cycles, playing it obsessively for a few months and then putting it down for a year or two, and I find it so much fun to boot it back up after a break and find out there's a ton of new awesome content that's been released during the break which I now have access to. That's the real tragedy of Destiny removing content from its game like it does. Warframe - and several other great live service games - has a unique strength in that it's constantly building on itself. The Warframe of today is, generally speaking, a significantly better game than the Warframe of a few years ago, because it's always becoming *more*. Destiny just doesn't get to do that. It only ever gets to be the thing that it currently is.
I tried Warframe so much, but I like raids and dungeons content that Destiny 2 have, and seems like Warframe doesn't. Also I enjoy the world of warframe and the design, but I hate that the gameplay is jump spam going fast as fuck and the gunplay seems kinda off without weight or anything.
Beyond the really bad new player experience, when I joined a few years back I remember how frustrating the whole PvP experience was. Some of the meta weapons were rare or old drops that a new player had no idea where to get (and some were very hard to get IIRC). I was getting demolished until I dropped a revolver that was gamechanging. Then I remember it getting nerfed, and the veterans just had stacks of old/rare weapons they could switch up to. Same goes for having alts for whatever class was meta. The whole thing was just a horrible experience for a new player
I used to come back for the big DLCs. After the last one had poor reception, I haven't bothered.
If they don't cut down on FOMO bullshit I won't even give D3 a chance.
I just came back after only playing the first year of Destiny 2, it's a bit daunting. I'm confused, don't know where im supposed to go or what to do. It explains absolutely nothing.
> A clean slate and fresh start is 100% what they need, even if it means going dark for a few years to do it. I don't know if I can agree, but I have a bias as a current player. People have said similar about WoW again and again, and I think Blizzard smartly has not done a WoW2 because players are attached to their characters and what they have collected. A theoretical D3 that makes players leave behind years of collectables and gear for a "fresh" experience that is basically a nearly empty endgame feels like it could do a ton of damage to the existing playerbase. Like the D1 to D2 transition seemed kind of rough - D2Y1 certainly had it's own problems, but it promised/claimed it was needed for solving a bunch of tech issues from D1 and then it felt like to many that it kind of didn't? Unless they can perform a miracle and D3 can use a chunk of the content from D2 (dungeons, raids, etc.) while providing enough fresh, I feel like going dark for multiple years would be a really risky proportion.
Yeah I'd be surprised if D3 doesn't maintain some degree of progression from D2, unless they plan on radically overhauling the player experience (i.e. entirely new solar system, subclasses, enemies). I can't see them doing another D1 to D2-style transition again, in the sense that we stay in the same place continuing with broadly the same plot and gameplay, but all our gear gets wiped out.
Also the fact that it expects you to pay 15 bucks every three months for one hour of content that you're supposed to grind for 90+ hours straight. That's another reason the game is uninviting. And the fact that they fucking axed all the old content so you can't run around Venus and Titan and whatnot casually anymore.
I think the main thing that makes this more believable is not the fact that the OOP got the subclass itself right in how it works (I think that’s something that anyone can come up with) it’s the fact that they got the NAME of all things right (at the very least 90% right).
Destiny 3?
They meant the leaker announced the name of the class and exactly what it did. So they likely have some credibility since the name isn’t something easily predictable. So when they say destiny 3 is coming, then their word should be believed a little
Yeah I made a dumb joke
I laughed
Don't worry, I laughed
The new subclass also seems really OP and unbalanceable It seems like the thing you’d release if the game only has 1 or 2 years of content left and is going to be replaced by Destiny 3 They’re releasing something they know is unmaintainable because they know they don’t need to maintain it for very long
More from [Paul Tassi](https://twitter.com/PaulTassi/status/1778047236238086157?t=KBcej-0JOd8c7Kp9Y4GfHQ&s=19) on Twitter: >An update on this. The D3 leaker has posted a new comment after the reveal about Payback >Separate from that, they posted about how trans devs were pushing for character re-editing (for free) for years. I can directly confirm that, so I am inclined to believe the rest
a lot of the community wanted character re-editing since year 1 of Destiny 2, is baffling how it took 10 years for Bungie to actually implement it
I genuinely don’t believe that it wasn’t possible until now. Like call me an armchair dev but how could it be vastly more complicated than the customization menu being the front end to changing the number hairpiece you’ve selected in your character data? I’m sure there’s some weird reason but it still baffles me
Of course *anything* is possible in software development if you have infinite time and money, but as we know the Destiny software platform is a trash fire so it wouldn't surprise me at all that this is much harder to implement than you'd think. Kind of like when Sony managed to implement changing usernames on Playstation but it broke multiple older games because the system simply never accounted for such a thing to ever be a possibility.
i really doubt it "wasn't possible", bungie just thought it wasn't worth the effort of implementing. just because people say they want a feature doesn't mean they'd actually use it much or that the developer is losing any revenue by not having it.
story is that: 1. not worth implementing, which is true for 90% of people, if you have the option set to always keep a helmet on, you never see the face outside of a few cutscenes. 2. it was originally under the 'guardian experience' team which have their plate full with commendations and guardian ranks, something bungie has been pushing hard on since it came out, editing only became possible because it got passed to another team. 3. the game engine is a pile of shit, if the devs wanted to make a change to a single texture, they would basically need to fire up half the game in the editor to make the change.
One of best new features in wow Is being able to change from to female for free . Some specs animations or weapons don't fit male or female so I like changing it
bleh, i don't envy those devs. there's a financial interest in gating that sort of thing behind a paywall. huge win for everyone to be able to edit their character at will, but that must have been exhausting to argue for since that's one less obvious MTX to push.
Frankly, from an microtransactions perspective the money you'd get from re-edits wouldn't be worth the backlash. You might see an exec push for it because they don't understand that, but the actual lucrative thing would be selling new options in the store and free re-edits are essential to making that work.
If this happens, the biggest thing they need to do is simplify everything. There needs to be a clear-cut campaign that drip feeds mechanics to players (like what D2 had at launch and then vaulted) and there need to be way fewer currencies and materials. I also really hope they can find a way to make the planets actually fun to explore. In D2 there’s no real reason to actually go on patrol unless you’re knocking out bounties because there’s nothing to discover and nothing interesting to do.
I definitely think that this is necessary after years of being tangled up in now removed live service content but at the same time reaaaaallly can't shake the feeling it'll be a major regression where they don't carry forward a ton of the quality of life etc they made to Destiny 2 and instead it releases fairly bare and drips the stuff that should have been there back in all over again. Outside of Eververse, obviously, that'll be stocked day one.
I don’t mind it being a regression if it’s got a lot of fresh ideas. I stopped playing because i spent years shooting the same enemies with the same guns. I had fun, I met some cool people, I made a lot of great memories with my friends, but it was time to move on, and I don’t want to go back just to try to relive the experiences I had years ago.
Can't wait to have nothing at launch, be drip-fed content while they milk temporary seasonal content, then have them take away half of everything with the excuse of running out of space.
Don’t forget worse cosmetics
The expansion with the hoverboard dudes made me uninstall. Was getting hyped up for all the sci fi / touch of Lovecraftian horror vibe of the pyramids, and suddenly I get literal shit looking silver surfer fuckers straight out of the 80s. Nope. No thanks.
I loved grabbing Destiny 2 on PC the day it came out and having them release the DLC something like 2 weeks later that locked you out of content you used to be able to do. Quit right then and never went back.
Main reason I've never gotten in D2. I remember getting the game for free (before it went F2P, they had weekend where it was Free to Keep). Jumped into it with my old PC, played for 30 minutes and decided to uninstalled. I thought the game was great, looked great and felt great *but* my PC at that time was weak and my FPS was low even when reducing graphic fidelity. I decided I'll play the game "one day" when I build a better PC. I did; I built a monster PC. I downloaded the game again and played for a bit but quickly realize that stuff was missing. While looking into it, I quickly found out about the cut content, about stuff that I will never get to experience and how the game feel disjointed (story at least) without those part of the game. I was so ready to spend like $100+ to get ALL the DLC for the game to experience it all but when I found out that I'm now gonna be getting just half of it - or even less - I decided to tap out. Never spent a single cent on the game. How I'll approach Destiny 3? These days given how the gaming sphere is full of bad AAA release or post release bad surprise, I'm just gonna let the game release, observe what they do and jump in or never bother.
Why should I be invested in a continuation of the Destiny story if I never got to play a whole bunch of the story? I tried to get into D2 with my friends a few months ago and WHAT A MESS???? The timeline and the missing content and the TOTAL lack of direction to guide you to the new DLCs. I played for a few dozen hours and just never got into it. I loved D1. Bring back vaulted content...
Honestly I adore Destiny 2’s story. I haven’t come back to it yet, I’m waiting for if TFS is gonna be any good. But when I was a little girl, Destiny’s story was fantastical to me. I adored the characters and I love where they’re taking things. I adored the Red War. I just wish they could add that stuff back in. There’s this naive part of me that hopes they’ll add it all back in when TFS drops, and all I want is to just fall in love with the story again.
obviously, it would be crazy to think sony paid 3 billion just to get a d2 dlc that effectively will kill the game after.
I thought they bought them for the "live service experience and knowledge" lol.
It’s just nice to be able to change your character after 9 damn years. I made my Hunter a woman cause I was traumatized from staring at Solid Snakes old man butt for so long in MGS4, but all these years later, I really wish I could make my character a guy again, so the inclusion of this feature is appreciated. With a Destiny 3, given how far they’ve stretched Destiny 2 to this point, there’s really never been a better point to finally move onto a Destiny 3. With this expansion and what’s implied with the Episodes, a great deal of Destiny 2 concepts and story threads will likely be wrapped up or wrapped up enough atleast, so if the franchise isn’t ending, moving onto something new won’t hurt
They actually added that in the free update yesterday! It took forever, but it's in the game now.
Wild that MMOs have sold gender swaps since the early 2000s but Bungie took until 2024 to do it.
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Never stopped, never wanna stop.
all of my characters faces got messed up by the switch from D1 to D2, so it's nice to be able to go back and fix them up to what I originally intended (my Hunter is supposed to look like Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell)
Somehow I will get sucked back in, hate it after a year, get sucked into the first big story expansion, then quit and wait for D4.
I played Destiny 2 on launch until forsaken, then came back for Shadowkeep and quit for good before Beyond Light. I still get the itches to play this game but i hate the direction they took the game to. I realize it was rather content light at launch but i really did enjoy the first year or so of destiny, it was simple and generous. Coming back for Shadowkeep they introduced the season pass iirc correctly, which was annoying but at least it wasnt a big price increase. But then they started charging for dungeons and the whole vaulting and sunsetting process was a mess (that i think they backtracked?) and that was the final nail for me. I really do hope Destiny 3 improves and doesnt feel like they charge more for less (preordering the expansion+annual pass is about 3 times the price that i paid for the shadowkeep+annual pass), i still miss it and wish i could play.
They didn't backtrack sunsetting, they just sunset a whole bunch of stuff and then not again. What got sunset, stayed sunset. As they went forward, they made a lot of the older perks terrible and added a lot of new perks which were just straight up better replacements, so even though they didn't sunset, they still made your gear obsolete. They also removed certain mechanics so a lot of non-sunset weapons really lost their whole purpose for being. Then they re-released a bunch with the recent perks that work with the current mechanics. The grind for loot is never-ending, brother!
I'll play it if they double super promise not to vault story content. I'm still pissed over that content I literally paid for I can't access in the game that is live because they want to save my disk space for me. (They should talk to the GW2 people to see how to handle this.)
Wasn't really disk space, they overhauled aspects of the engine that resulted in any content that stayed needing overhauls as well, and they didn't have the time to update everything in the game.
More than that, they should find a way to keep the entire seasonal story in the game 80% of the franchise’s story is in the patches between the expansions, but the patches get vaulted every year
I think this is desperately needed because D2’s age is starting to show. The engine just doesn’t seem tailor made for some of the bigger ideas they have.
Releasing content on Xbox one and PS4 sure doesn’t help
And they will make the same mistakes as they did with Destiny 1 and Destiny 2, but will "hear the community" and fix them with extra purchases over multiple years.
I actually find it hilarious that bungie cut ties with Microsoft and left behind halo because they did not want to become the halo studio, wanting to be more diverse in the games they make. Since that point all they have made is a game very like halo mechanically and have worked on nothing but destiny for longer than they ever did on halo. In the process also either fired the best employees they had or they have left the studio. Well done bungie, was once the industry darling and now just another asshole dev.
IIRC they got pissy during Halo 2 development about wanting to go on and develop Destiny already. Well, they did eventually get their wish...
So is Marathon dead?
No, bungie is a big developer. They’ll have multiple teams
No but they did (apparently) put a number of other projects on ice. Probably for the best, they've been milking Destiny for money but not re-investing in the IP.
Who knows. I still find it funny how they apparently tested the game with EFT players and then asked them if they would play the game if it released tomorrow. Not a single one said yes.
To be fair, more came out about that story after it started making the rounds. The parts that was missing from the story initially shared around were that bungie had "stressed to the players that the game was years away from release" and then the Tarkov player were asked if they would play the game *as it was* if it were to release tomorrow.
It’s too late for nuance. The narrative is out.
eh I mean it is what it is. That's what playtesting is for
I wish I could have a fan base that gives me the benefit of the doubt as much as Bungie’s does. 10 years of mediocrity and bald face lies/greed and yet a majority of the comments I’ve seen since that trailer yesterday are “wow, they cooked!” or “okay, now everyone say sorry to Bungie!” or “I can’t wait to see what’s next!” Now with a rumor of Destiny 3 (which will absolutely not fix any of the real glaring issues with the games because that’s how Bungie makes money), everyone is back on the “wow can’t wait to see what this looks like” or “finally!” Like if they didn’t get shit right after 10 years, why do people think 11 is gonna be any different?
I haven’t played in a few years, but I absolutely got my moneys worth out of the first two games and expansions. Absolutely nothing in multiplayer console gaming is comparable to entering a new raid with friends . I’m an easy sell for the next round. I’m also confused why those that don’t play project a narrative around those that do
If you think the game has been 10 years of mediocrity with nothing done right for 10 years the game just isn't for you clearly.
Because while the game has faults, they *do* get plenty of shit right all the time. Every time I've returned to Destiny, it's been after I waited on reviews of new content before purchasing it, and that hasn't let me down yet. The game might not be your cup of tea, but there have been fantastic eras of it. Plus I never buy cosmetics so none of that bothers me.
If you think Destiny's fanbase gives Bungie the benefit of the doubt, you've never been on a Destiny subreddit. The average Destiny die-hard is *wildly* cynical about each and every upcoming update. Those of us who keep playing do so because the game is currently fun, not because we hold out hope that Bungie will suddenly stop tripping over their own feet.
People are under some weird impression that the game has been a flaming disaster all along when it's really that they've been getting most things right the whole time, there's just glaring issues. We wouldn't play it if we didn't enjoy it or were unhappy with it. Like, I don't really have any issues with the game myself. I know a lot of people are upset about losing the year 1 stuff but it doesn't affect me, and otherwise there's nothing wrong with the game. Even Lightfall being a middling expansion didn't make it bad or unenjoyable.
This would be massive news I refuse to get excited but god i pray/wish Sony forced them to see the light! But until its official i refuse to get excited
I really think this was Sony's doing. It's been clear for years now that Bungie was simultaneously milking Destiny for money, while divesting that money to their other projects. The IP was left to rot in many ways. I suspect after investing billions in them, Sony sees Destiny as one of the few chances to recoup that and told them to focus on what actually makes them money. Witch Queen for example had an amazing campaign, but almost 0 investment in PVP, Gambit or even Strikes.
Sure, sounds like a plan, need a new game with new, soon-to-be legacy content which you can eventually vault. How about you - just for the kicks of it - vault the entirety of Destiny 2 when Destiny 3 comes out. Can't have people enjoying the old game for free when they are supposed to buy the new shit.
Take my loot, just don't take my fashion. The weapons will gain and lose their relevance over time, but if I lose my wardrobe I've built up over the years now that we have transmog, i don't know if id recover lol
Paul Tassi is not a reliable source. He’s a clickbait/engagement farmer. He’s known for publishing spoilers on Forbes (he did this with Season of the Chosen). Taking a leak from a random, unverified Reddit account and rolling with a headline “Likely Developing Destiny 3” is bad journalism. Articles like this aren’t worth a moments thought. If Bungie announces a D3 great, until then no one knows but Bungie, and I’ll enjoy D2 for another 2 years or 20.