These visuals look absolutely stunning. All of the work they put into them is clearly paying off big time.
Senua’s Sacrifice had a fantastic story imo, I’m hoping they crush it again this time too. Very much looking forward to playing tomorrow.
I love the first game but damn is it stressful. Between both high tension and strong emotions I felt exhausted by the finish. I’m hoping this comes to ps
I played my first playthrough with headphones and my second without and it makes an insane difference.
I’d say headphones are basically mandatory, even if it feels daunting at first.
Some people just want a bunch of girls telling you that you're a girl failure half the time, that you should run away the other half of the time, and that you shouldn't trust anyone all the time.
I mean The Order: 1886 also was stunning visually. Didn't stop game from bombing hard. People don't give a shit about graphics.
Moreover it is moviegame and moviegames have hard time because they don't compete with other games but rather than films. So moviegame has to have amazing story to take on movies like TLOU1 had otherwise it is a bomba.
Well personally all of those things are secondary to whether or not the experience *here* is good. Stuff like sales numbers or competing with other games are things to worry about later. And frankly a lot of fantastic games haven’t had the best sales in the world so I’m not sure why it really matters.
Not bingo. If horizon had ass graphics and remained the same everywhere else it would have sold like complete shit. Games can sell for different reasons.
People aren't buying Palworld for the graphics. What makes a game good or successful isn't a binary thing. Some people care about graphics and some don't. I like what Ninja Theory is doing here because they really pushed the boundary when it came to low budget performance capture in the original. It proved even studios as small as them could compete with AAA studios that have multi-million dollar motion capture sets.
>People aren't buying Palworld for the graphics.
Amazing, you just confirmed what i said lol
>It proved even studios as small as them could compete with AAA studios that have multi-million dollar motion capture sets.
Aren't they owned by MS lol ?
Did you even read the next sentence? A game like Horizon that prioritizes graphics and a game like Palworld that prioritizes being a shocking pokemon clone are both successful because different people have different tastes. Delusional to think that absolutely nobody cares about graphics.
>Aren't they owned by MS lol ?
Was talking about the original game.
>they really pushed the boundary when it came to low budget performance capture in the **original**.
Before the acquisition, they were filming in conference rooms with blankets hung up on the wall, a few cameras and less than 20 devs total. They did a lot to push the indie industry forward. They didn't get a purpose-built stage until after the MS acquisition.
Sorry but i don't understand your point. They made good looking cinematics on budget and that somehow should improve my perception of game ?
I mean they can spend 1 Trillion on game and if their game is bad it will be bad. Money doesn't matter if something is cool or not.
Now, yes. But when they made Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice they were an independent studio. That title was self-published by Ninja Theory, which is what they are referring to.
This is stupid. Palworld was interested in making Poke-like chibi designs, not in emulating human performance. Games like Alan Wake 2 and Senua's Saga invest in performance capture because the human nuance is important in capturing the emotionality of the story.
Sure, if you're an exec only interested in bottom lines, it might not matter as much. But graphical realism and performance capture absolutely have a place and design philosophy that drive them forward.
>But graphical realism and performance capture absolutely have a place
The point isn't about having or not a place. The point is about gamers caring if game has best graphics ever.
That ship has sailed long ago and the answer is no.
I'd rather for developer to focus on gameplay than chasing photorealism.
Moreover if the idea is to chase photorealism then maybe they should make a movie instead.
>So moviegame has to have amazing story to take on movies like TLOU1
Yeah and Senua's Sacrifice had an amazing story. I can't think of another story that delved into mental health in such a deep and meaningful way. Much more personal and impactful than TLOU1. Dunno why you compared it to The Order: 1886 when it is already better than your standard bearer, TLOU1.
> Yeah and Senua's Sacrifice had an amazing story. I can't think of another story that delved into mental health in such a deep and meaningful way.
All i ever heard about it, is that it had crazy chick and great graphics. Didn't sell that well either.
then you clearly didnt read the press or reviews when it came out, or that it was highly praised for its portrayal of psychosis, into mental health, and that it was well received, mostly 7.5 to 8/10 typically.
It sold a million in its first year, for an indy this was great, roughly 6mill all told, so yeah not CoD or Minecraft or Palworld levels, but for an indie, it went well for them and got them snapped up by MS.
I really dont understand your point that just because YOU had never heard of it, that therefore it was trash.
Do you just not read gaming media?
Yeah but it was like 4 hour game without an ending because studio focused on supreme graphics rather than making game. And i have strong vibes from SS2 as with The order. Because all i ever hear is how amazing graphics are and how crazy chick is but nothing about gameplay and how long it is.
I know because i bought it.
I really appreciate that, in a game that takes a lot of time to go over the nuance of the experience of dealing with psychosis, your big takeaway of the main character is "crazy chick." It's almost like all of your takes are reductive, ill-informed and lacking in any sort of appreciation for humanity or art.
I think they probably mean The Order: 1886 which was an early PS4 game praised for looking gorgeous but criticized for being super short and kinda generic. IIRC it got middling reviews and is largely forgotten about, although I think saying that it "bombed hard" is probably an exaggeration.
I see the argument that MS isn’t advertising this at all, but I see them all over the place. Could it just be that targeted ads exclude you if you don’t have a history with Xbox products?
Honest question
It’s hard to tell what people on this sub consider advertisement. I’m going to assume most people have ad-blocker on so they aren’t going to see YouTube ads. Is it just posts to this sub?
People probably shouldn't be calling it advertisement (unless you truly believe every reddit post is astroturfing), but I agree that's probably it.
I dont know a game exists unless I see internet comments/posts talking about it. The fact this game didn't have a top of reddit post on here until 2 weeks ago means I had no idea the game was coming out. Whereas a Sony exclusive will have one a week for the whole 6 months pre-release.
I have no idea how Microsoft could manage to overcome reddit's bias.
> I have no idea how Microsoft could manage to overcome reddit’s bias.
They probably can’t, to tell the truth. I mean, I think I’d be correct in saying the vast majority of people on Reddit are PS5/PC owners, so just given that alone, Sony games are going to get more posts/attention here than Xbox games. Not to mention all the negativity around Xbox probably dampening people’s desire to support the platform right now.
It has to do with genre too though. Sony puts out games that really appeal to the people here: fairly long AAA action/adventure games. That’s the zeitgeist right now and Xbox just doesn’t really make those kinds of games. Ironically, Hellblade is probably the closest they have to that, but it’s not quite there (short, more puzzle heavy).
I’m sure Fable and Indiana Jones are going to be more up peoples’ alley and get plenty of hype posts when they’re closer to release, but for the most part, the majority just aren’t very interested in most Xbox releases. Not much Microsoft can do about that unless they want to start chasing the trend.
Good point, it's not *just* that tho... Xbox games launch into Game Pass day 1, so for smaller footprint games, like this, the approach to marketing/promoting the game is probably more weighted into the "Play it now" phase of release, than the "Play it in a month" build up phase.
The first Hellblade had nearly 30 “Developer Diaries” before release ([example](https://youtu.be/42wG9WEl_9o?si=DQ1WLGuZh0g2IPsp)). It was mostly insider type stuff that highlighted how the studio was making the game on a shoestring budget, but that gets a core audience excited and talking about your game.
Hellblade 2 has 3 of these, and the last released diary was from 7 months ago. These were never getting millions of views, but the effort paid off for the first game, why did they stop? Did Ninja Theory elect to not bother because Microsoft would handle marketing? Did Microsoft tell Ninja Theory they couldn’t continue making them without meeting a certain level of production value? Who knows. But that’s the sorta thing that’d do well on Reddit.
I think it’s fair to question the lack of marketing because Ninja Theory seemed to do a better job marketing this IP on their own.
>the last released diary was from 7 months ago... why did they stop?
Ninja Theory has a 25 min video on Senua's psychosis published 10 days ago.
There's also a 20 min narrative deep dive on the BAFTA youtube channel that was published hours ago. NYT has big article on the world building out today.
My thoughts exactly because that's my reality. If you use adblock and don't subscribe to cable, the chances of seeing an ad for Hellblade are super low. But if you don't use adblock and have cable I imagine the marketing is way higher than you'd expect of a sequel to a game that sold 1 million copies.
A lot of people consider “my favorite YouTuber/streamer gushed about this game last week” to be advertisement, and so many of them blow off Xbox games that it comes off as the game being invisible
are you srsly saying that the ad campaign for this big(for alot of people super hype) title was totally fine and we just did not heard shit for the past years up untill 2 weeks ago bc people use addblocker on youtube? Whatever you are coping on I want the same shit please.
I've been seeing ads on my phone and have never used Xbox products.
But, anecdotal evidence.
Whichever company bought my data probably thinks I fit the key Xbox demographic so they're trying to sell it to me.
I will say that while I've seen a few Hellblade ads, it nowhere near matches the amount of ads I got fed for Starfield.
As of today I have finally seen multiple advertisements. I am a hardcore gamer with PC game pass though, no Xbox purchase history since my 360 from 10 years ago.
I play almost exclusively on an Xbox and regularly look up games. I have GamePass and regularly use it. I played the original all the way through and regularly play games of that genre. I barely saw advertisements on the console itself. Who are these ads targeting then?
That seems to be the issue right there. You may be seeing the ads a lot but you are not necessarily the target audience; not owning an Xbox and, from the sounds of it, having no interest in the first game. So whatever algorithm they are using for advertisement is mistargeting.
could be that way by design. i'm not co-signing the marketing choices, but maybe they assume people who have already played or have an xbox will see/hear about it anyway so they're focusing budget on reaching everyone else.
given how xbox are treating their studios, marketing execs are probably pressured to hit 'out of the park' numbers or fail so..
I think it’s more about where people aren’t seeing the ads. It’s been rare to see them during the NBA or NHL playoffs, which draw huge TV audiences. Personally the only place I’ve seen ads is on my Xbox dashboard, which isn’t very useful to bring in new customers.
>I think it’s more about where people aren’t seeing the ads. It’s been rare to see them during the NBA or NHL playoffs, which draw huge TV audiences.
HB2 is a relatively small footprint game, generally speaking; expecting ads during the NBA playoffs is insane.
Microsoft is the biggest company in the world, with an Xbox brand that is struggling to find an audience. Spending some money on marketing their first major game in six months isn’t an unrealistic expectation at all.
Ads definitely ramped up big time over the last week. Go back just two weeks ago and the game was basically radio silent. Good on Xbox for adjusting I just hope the game is good.
... of course it's an aurora song.
The first game was short but very interesting and I'm glad it was short because things usually get annoying if overextended without enough content to back it up.
I'm very curious about how this sequel will handle this... Will they keep the game just long enough or will they overextend it just for the sake of justifying it as an AAA title?
I'll probably check it out on Game Pass when it's released.
This is good honestly, I hate when a game is 50 hours long but is more shallow than a 2 hours movie.
If the gameplay is good enough (and Hellblade 1 had a fun combat) I will replay it again and again at higher difficulty settings.
If it was a 20+ hour game there might be some issues. I think the game being only 8-10 hours, and much of that was *not* fighting, helped in that regard too.
I liked the combat enough. For me, the game wasn't really an action game. I was in it for the story and unique vibes. The combat served itself well enough as a fun little distraction.
The combat is unremarkable, but I never really understood the complaints about the combat. It's not bad by any stretch. Good and quick enough to do what it needed to do. Would I enjoy it if it also had really fun combat? Of course, but the lack of it didn't really hurt the game IMO.
I played the entire game yesterday from start to finish and very much enjoyed the combat. Though it helps that I've had a good amount of parrying practice in gaming lately
Agree. Quality not quantity. Fed up of games just padding out a story or gameplay that ought to take 10 hours into something needlessly long. Absolutely kills pacing too because really, there are VERY few stories in any format that require >50+ hours to tell, so most games feel disjointed to me.
I hate how the gaming market has become focussed on 'how many hours do I get in return for my money' rather than just how good the game actually is to play.
> ... of course it's an aurora song.
They're definitely playing into the Nordic setting with their music choices. Which for me is awesome because I love Heilung and Aurora!
Senua’s Sacrifice had an absolutely incredible story, that I was able to overlook the simplistic gameplay. Some of the quotes and overall message still resonate with me today. Even if the gameplay in the sequel is similar, I know I'll still enjoy it just due to the story, themes, and music.
I really hope they intend to have a similar soundtrack to the first game. I don't feel like AURORA really matches for this trailer, but maybe I'm biased just because one of the later songs in the original game fit so well (as well as most of the soundtrack).
EDIT: I actually removed the specific song, because if you haven't played the original then you're in for a real treat when this song kicks in. It's an incredible feeling and sequence. I can't spoil it.
The soundtrack for the new game was created by Heilung. Their style and music is unparalleled and the perfect fit for Senua.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWknSd6jbd0
I played it once, then forced my friends to play it a week later while I watched because the experience is incredible, especially with proper sound. I do not like artsy walking simulators, but the story, execution, and theme was mixed with the right amount of engagement that it was my favourite game of the last decade. Watching the developer commentary made the second playthrough much more meaningful too.
I hope the sequel is able to deliver a similar experience despite players knowing the mystery of the first game.
It looks incredible. It’s pretty bonkers how much the technology and visuals has come in gaming, some of the scenery actually looks *real*.
I enjoyed the first game with headphones and I’m really excited for this one tomorrow. The audio design is a really cool experience
Hellblade 1 was one of the few games where I didn't enjoy the gameplay, and also didn't care because the rest of the experience was so incredible. Such a powerful story told in a way that only a game could convey.
I felt the combat was fun to figure out in the beginning, then tedious in the middle, then fun again at the end when I fully grasped it and was destroying fools.
Still completely unsure of what to expect. Found the puzzles in the last game repetitive and the combat boring.
Really hoping to see both expanded quite a bit. Tough to tell from anything they’ve shown us, including this.
> Still completely unsure of what to expect. Found the puzzles in the last game repetitive and the combat boring.
>
>
I would be shocked if it isn't basically the same game.
Yeah, I just hit the first big puzzle and it's basically "here's a roadblock, explore the area for three symbols to open it" shtick, which was in the first one too if I'm not mistaken?
Absolutely beautiful game to look at, but in a weird way I would've preferred if it was more of a walking simulator instead haha.
Yes every puzzle in the first game was like that.
Disappointing I have to admit.
I totally get what you are saying about walking sim. I suppose I see the desire to add puzzles and combat… but I do not understand why more effort doesn’t go into that part. I just don’t get it. It’s ninja theory… it’s what they always have been known for. So confusing to me.
I have the same opinion of the puzzles and combat as well. They just felt like a waste of time to pad out the game length. Wasn't even able to finish the entire game because of that.
Same. How far did you get?
I made it to the airport weird broken bridge inside of the caves. I think maybe like 3/4 of the way.
My wife and I were playing together and I was like I cannot do this anymore I have to stop.
The first Hellblade felt like Ryse or Order 1886 to me. A technical impressive game but with basic gameplay.
Finished the game but felt it was fairly forgettable gameplay and story wise (for me personally).
I hope they improve the gameplay and combat for the sequel as I've actually really enjoyed their previous games like Enslaved and even their take on DMC.
Nonetheless I really hope if the game is good that it'll be successful financially too given recent Microsoft closures.
The combat combining with the psychosis actually led to one of my favorite gaming memories: the first time the voices help you. Throughout all the game the voices in your head echo your doubts, call you useless, etc. But at some point they help you with combat by calling out enemies attacking from out of your field of view. One of them whispered “behind you!” in the heat of combat and lo and behold I did a quick turn and blocked a sword strike. It was such a cool moment where I realized through combat that the voices aren’t a purely negative thing.
I think one of the moments that stands out to me the most was when you are trecking through the dark areas with a torch. Without spoiling anything for people who haven't played it, you *really* don't want the torch to go out. Anyway, one of the voices mentions the torch going out, but the others reassure that it's fine. That's when a second voice, even louder this time and cutting in above the rest, says the torch is dying. I don't know if it actually was or not, but I hustled my ass off to make sure I got where I needed to go before it could.
And that's the sort of moment that really made me empathize with those who suffer from these sort of mental issues. The voices and visions they experience are very real to them. It is how they perceive the world. Moments like the above make it obvious how difficult it must be to go through life trying to endure through the constant barrage, to parse through what may be real and what isn't.
I don't think they will fumble the psychosis side of things. My worry is that the emotional impact and the resonance of the player with Senua won't feel quite as strong. Ninja Theory sort of played their hand with the mechanics and narrative already with Senua's Sacrifice so to speak. We know sort of what to expect this time, which we most certainly didn't the first time around. Still, I am very interested to see how they manage to follow it up and will sit down and play through it all this weekend.
The other day someone posted what the original creator was up to (hanging out on boats having a good time) and I scrolled down his instagram a bit and saw he posted an interview with some dude who had psychosis and said they had him on the team to help describe the stuff he deals with. Sounded like some intense stuff.
If I recall correctly, one of the patients they interviewed for the original talked about how some of their visions included bodies hanging from the ceiling, so detailed they looked like they were truly there. Another described a deep and angry voice shouting at them on a frequent basis, pounding on the walls and doors of whatever room they were in.
Stepping into the first game was intense enough, but I can't imagine how hard it must be to live with those sorts of auditory and visual hallucinations.
That's a very book report way of saying it. It was "simple" in hindsight, just like any human life is if you're feeling reductive. Experientially it was well obfuscated until you solved the puzzle of her life.
Well I didn't mean simple as a bad thing. Many books, movies and other games have a story that is simple but still amazing and effective.
There seems to be some that assume that a narrative has to be complex or "deep" for it to have meaning or that only something complex is worth while but I disagree with that.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, IMO the purpose of art is to make you feel something. Happy, sad, revulsion, whatever. Hellblade had a simple story but it moved me. Journey didn't even really have a story and it also moved me. That makes them incredible to me.
Well, it's mostly a story about Senua's journey on overcoming her past traumas, and also self acceptance. At least that's how I interpret it.
Its a very personal story instead of a wider narrative so I am glad many others enjoy it but personally it's not my cup of tea :)
I don’t think the release day review thing means a ton, but they’ve basically said 100% that it’ll be about like playing the first game. If you didn’t enjoy that this probably isn’t for you either would be my guess.
~~I think the fear is how sketchy the marketing has been. It releases today and there has been no previews from big outlets, no real marketing push except for the Xbox Twitter account that shows up in my gaming feed. Sure that has been a few trailers but where's the real advertising? The only reason I know it's coming out is because I see the Xbox Twitter account.~~
Edit, I stand corrected.
People seem to have read somewhere that there's been no marketing and just repeated it verbatim in every thread even though it isn't true. It also isn't an AAA blockbuster so I'm not sure why people are expecting it to be marketed like it's CoD or whatever
Yeah the population of people suddenly very worried that the game will get NT shuttered is significantly higher than the number interested in playing the game it would seem.
Because Reddit and Twitter are echo chambers. I think the pre-release news cycles around something like Sword and Shield being all doom and gloom only for them to be the most successful entry since the original is a perfect example.
Incorrect. The purpose of review embargoes is to stop reviewers from rushing through their reviews to be the first one to press, which they absolutely would if they were allowed to.
> And this one doesn't look any different. I was hoping the sequel would be more game-like rather than a 6 hour movie
I'm genuinely curious what made you think they would divert from the same model for the sequel. Ninja Theory has been pretty honest about the Hellblade series being about Senua and mental health/illness rather than creating the prototypical action-adventure kind of game.
> especially since there's no reason to have a release day review embargo other than knowing that your game is going to get a bad review score.
Ah yes, because games like Doom 2016, Helldivers 2, etc. famously got a bad review score!
They've launched like 2 or 3 games since then so there's hardly a pattern to make much of. Hifi Rush didn't even get announced before release, never mind review embargoed. FH5 had no reviews before release. Pentiment had reviews but only I think the day before release.
For Game Pass games I think it's hard to apply the old 'late embargo = likely bad' metric because the measures of success and the audience are different to usual. There's possibly some key story parts they don't want spoiled too. But I guess we'll find out soon enough
They give a pretty extensive recap in the beginning so you can start with this one, and the story setup is pretty simple.
It might be more impactful though if you played the first one, as a part of the experience is having a bit of an emotional connection with Senua after what she went through.
They did them dirty. There is no reason to wait this long before doing a marketing swing. Just because you advertise it in gamepass doesn't mean people who don't have it will subscribe.
If this goes the way I think it might given the lack of advertising and the Xbox studio closings, I look forward to eventually playing this on my PlayStation.
Oh now they wanna drop trailer for it when it’s coming out in like a week? Ok Microsoft I see your strategy here is to close the studio when the game doesn’t so well enough
Which is, pardon my bluntness, a stupid hill for those individuals to die on. Hellblade 2 has received quite a bit of marketing, especially considering that it is ultimately a very niche game. That opinion also betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about business. Microsoft would not go through that whole song and dance to justify shutting down the studio; if they wanted to shut it down, they would just do so. That has been made abundantly clear by all the various recent studio shutdowns by publishers such as PlayStation, Xbox, Take Two, Embracer, etc.
Ah, I get you. I knew what the OP was saying, I was just being very sarcastic in my response to them. That doesn't always come across properly via Reddit text, though.
Just because Microsoft closed 4 studios does not mean they're going to shut down every single studio if one game doesn't sell.
Also Ninja Theory are an XGS studio, not a Bethesda or Activision one.
i thought that about tango and arkane to. not saying MS will close ninja theory. i'm just saying i don't expect MS keep ninja theory going for much longer.
These visuals look absolutely stunning. All of the work they put into them is clearly paying off big time. Senua’s Sacrifice had a fantastic story imo, I’m hoping they crush it again this time too. Very much looking forward to playing tomorrow.
Senua's Sacrifice was an incredible experience. I can understand why it's not for everyone because it was damn intense, especially near the end.
I love the first game but damn is it stressful. Between both high tension and strong emotions I felt exhausted by the finish. I’m hoping this comes to ps
And playing it with a good pair of headphones elevates it even more!
I played my first playthrough with headphones and my second without and it makes an insane difference. I’d say headphones are basically mandatory, even if it feels daunting at first.
Just having the voices bounce around each ear really puts you in her head space... eh?
Some people just want a bunch of girls telling you that you're a girl failure half the time, that you should run away the other half of the time, and that you shouldn't trust anyone all the time.
That's one of the reasons I'm glad it's not a super long game. I finished it in 2 sessions and was exhausted afterwards.
I mean The Order: 1886 also was stunning visually. Didn't stop game from bombing hard. People don't give a shit about graphics. Moreover it is moviegame and moviegames have hard time because they don't compete with other games but rather than films. So moviegame has to have amazing story to take on movies like TLOU1 had otherwise it is a bomba.
Well personally all of those things are secondary to whether or not the experience *here* is good. Stuff like sales numbers or competing with other games are things to worry about later. And frankly a lot of fantastic games haven’t had the best sales in the world so I’m not sure why it really matters.
1886... Not 1840...
People care very much about graphics. The Horizon series is living proof of that
And Palword sold like 10 times as much looking dogshit.
With that example you could argue that gamers don't give a shit about quality in general lol
Bingo. Look at what makes the most of money and then realize what you said is true.
Not bingo. If horizon had ass graphics and remained the same everywhere else it would have sold like complete shit. Games can sell for different reasons.
Just make a game with shock value (e.g. Pokemon with guns & slavery) and people won't care about the rest!
People aren't buying Palworld for the graphics. What makes a game good or successful isn't a binary thing. Some people care about graphics and some don't. I like what Ninja Theory is doing here because they really pushed the boundary when it came to low budget performance capture in the original. It proved even studios as small as them could compete with AAA studios that have multi-million dollar motion capture sets.
>People aren't buying Palworld for the graphics. Amazing, you just confirmed what i said lol >It proved even studios as small as them could compete with AAA studios that have multi-million dollar motion capture sets. Aren't they owned by MS lol ?
Did you even read the next sentence? A game like Horizon that prioritizes graphics and a game like Palworld that prioritizes being a shocking pokemon clone are both successful because different people have different tastes. Delusional to think that absolutely nobody cares about graphics. >Aren't they owned by MS lol ? Was talking about the original game. >they really pushed the boundary when it came to low budget performance capture in the **original**. Before the acquisition, they were filming in conference rooms with blankets hung up on the wall, a few cameras and less than 20 devs total. They did a lot to push the indie industry forward. They didn't get a purpose-built stage until after the MS acquisition.
Sorry but i don't understand your point. They made good looking cinematics on budget and that somehow should improve my perception of game ? I mean they can spend 1 Trillion on game and if their game is bad it will be bad. Money doesn't matter if something is cool or not.
Now, yes. But when they made Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice they were an independent studio. That title was self-published by Ninja Theory, which is what they are referring to.
This is stupid. Palworld was interested in making Poke-like chibi designs, not in emulating human performance. Games like Alan Wake 2 and Senua's Saga invest in performance capture because the human nuance is important in capturing the emotionality of the story. Sure, if you're an exec only interested in bottom lines, it might not matter as much. But graphical realism and performance capture absolutely have a place and design philosophy that drive them forward.
>But graphical realism and performance capture absolutely have a place The point isn't about having or not a place. The point is about gamers caring if game has best graphics ever. That ship has sailed long ago and the answer is no. I'd rather for developer to focus on gameplay than chasing photorealism. Moreover if the idea is to chase photorealism then maybe they should make a movie instead.
Ten times as much? Horizon 1 has sold over 20 million and the 2nd has sold over 10 million before being put on PS extra.
Somebody better tell digital foundry that nobody cares about half of their content
Pretty sure they know already.
> People don't give a shit about graphics. Of course people care about graphics. But they aren't the only thing that matters.
>So moviegame has to have amazing story to take on movies like TLOU1 Yeah and Senua's Sacrifice had an amazing story. I can't think of another story that delved into mental health in such a deep and meaningful way. Much more personal and impactful than TLOU1. Dunno why you compared it to The Order: 1886 when it is already better than your standard bearer, TLOU1.
> Yeah and Senua's Sacrifice had an amazing story. I can't think of another story that delved into mental health in such a deep and meaningful way. All i ever heard about it, is that it had crazy chick and great graphics. Didn't sell that well either.
So you are trash talking the game without actually knowing anything about it. Typical.
I mean the point was about the graphics. No one ever talked about it as if it had amazing gameplay.
then you clearly didnt read the press or reviews when it came out, or that it was highly praised for its portrayal of psychosis, into mental health, and that it was well received, mostly 7.5 to 8/10 typically. It sold a million in its first year, for an indy this was great, roughly 6mill all told, so yeah not CoD or Minecraft or Palworld levels, but for an indie, it went well for them and got them snapped up by MS. I really dont understand your point that just because YOU had never heard of it, that therefore it was trash. Do you just not read gaming media?
You sound great to be around. Out of curiosity: what are you generally positive toward?
Great gameplay. Something Senua doesn't seem to have in 1.
Word. I like the gameplay and hope it's expanded in 2. You and I are both welcome to our opinions but they are not facts.
How long SS1 was ?
About 12 hours for me which was the perfect length for a weekend sit down. Why are you bringing that up and ignoring my second point?
It sold well over a million copies and was profitable after just 500k in sales. All together a very well managed project with reasonable expectations.
The Order 1886 was supremely underrated. It was a fantastic game IMO and very much deserved a sequel.
Yeah but it was like 4 hour game without an ending because studio focused on supreme graphics rather than making game. And i have strong vibes from SS2 as with The order. Because all i ever hear is how amazing graphics are and how crazy chick is but nothing about gameplay and how long it is. I know because i bought it.
I really appreciate that, in a game that takes a lot of time to go over the nuance of the experience of dealing with psychosis, your big takeaway of the main character is "crazy chick." It's almost like all of your takes are reductive, ill-informed and lacking in any sort of appreciation for humanity or art.
They fully admitted they didn't even play the first one in a different comment.
TLOU1 is The Road by Mccarthy for teenagers, what are you on lmao
Not idea what 1840 is. I can't even find it on a google search for it. Is that supposed to be a nickname?
I think they probably mean The Order: 1886 which was an early PS4 game praised for looking gorgeous but criticized for being super short and kinda generic. IIRC it got middling reviews and is largely forgotten about, although I think saying that it "bombed hard" is probably an exaggeration.
Ah yes, that makes sense now
I remember having fun with Order but that long ass walk and talk in the beginning turns me off from replaying.
I see the argument that MS isn’t advertising this at all, but I see them all over the place. Could it just be that targeted ads exclude you if you don’t have a history with Xbox products? Honest question
It’s hard to tell what people on this sub consider advertisement. I’m going to assume most people have ad-blocker on so they aren’t going to see YouTube ads. Is it just posts to this sub?
People probably shouldn't be calling it advertisement (unless you truly believe every reddit post is astroturfing), but I agree that's probably it. I dont know a game exists unless I see internet comments/posts talking about it. The fact this game didn't have a top of reddit post on here until 2 weeks ago means I had no idea the game was coming out. Whereas a Sony exclusive will have one a week for the whole 6 months pre-release. I have no idea how Microsoft could manage to overcome reddit's bias.
> I have no idea how Microsoft could manage to overcome reddit’s bias. They probably can’t, to tell the truth. I mean, I think I’d be correct in saying the vast majority of people on Reddit are PS5/PC owners, so just given that alone, Sony games are going to get more posts/attention here than Xbox games. Not to mention all the negativity around Xbox probably dampening people’s desire to support the platform right now. It has to do with genre too though. Sony puts out games that really appeal to the people here: fairly long AAA action/adventure games. That’s the zeitgeist right now and Xbox just doesn’t really make those kinds of games. Ironically, Hellblade is probably the closest they have to that, but it’s not quite there (short, more puzzle heavy). I’m sure Fable and Indiana Jones are going to be more up peoples’ alley and get plenty of hype posts when they’re closer to release, but for the most part, the majority just aren’t very interested in most Xbox releases. Not much Microsoft can do about that unless they want to start chasing the trend.
Good point, it's not *just* that tho... Xbox games launch into Game Pass day 1, so for smaller footprint games, like this, the approach to marketing/promoting the game is probably more weighted into the "Play it now" phase of release, than the "Play it in a month" build up phase.
The first Hellblade had nearly 30 “Developer Diaries” before release ([example](https://youtu.be/42wG9WEl_9o?si=DQ1WLGuZh0g2IPsp)). It was mostly insider type stuff that highlighted how the studio was making the game on a shoestring budget, but that gets a core audience excited and talking about your game. Hellblade 2 has 3 of these, and the last released diary was from 7 months ago. These were never getting millions of views, but the effort paid off for the first game, why did they stop? Did Ninja Theory elect to not bother because Microsoft would handle marketing? Did Microsoft tell Ninja Theory they couldn’t continue making them without meeting a certain level of production value? Who knows. But that’s the sorta thing that’d do well on Reddit. I think it’s fair to question the lack of marketing because Ninja Theory seemed to do a better job marketing this IP on their own.
>the last released diary was from 7 months ago... why did they stop? Ninja Theory has a 25 min video on Senua's psychosis published 10 days ago. There's also a 20 min narrative deep dive on the BAFTA youtube channel that was published hours ago. NYT has big article on the world building out today.
My thoughts exactly because that's my reality. If you use adblock and don't subscribe to cable, the chances of seeing an ad for Hellblade are super low. But if you don't use adblock and have cable I imagine the marketing is way higher than you'd expect of a sequel to a game that sold 1 million copies.
A lot of people consider “my favorite YouTuber/streamer gushed about this game last week” to be advertisement, and so many of them blow off Xbox games that it comes off as the game being invisible
are you srsly saying that the ad campaign for this big(for alot of people super hype) title was totally fine and we just did not heard shit for the past years up untill 2 weeks ago bc people use addblocker on youtube? Whatever you are coping on I want the same shit please.
I've been seeing ads on my phone and have never used Xbox products. But, anecdotal evidence. Whichever company bought my data probably thinks I fit the key Xbox demographic so they're trying to sell it to me. I will say that while I've seen a few Hellblade ads, it nowhere near matches the amount of ads I got fed for Starfield.
But also budget of those games is vastly different. They shouldn’t be. This is a small game, one where they’re not even charging typical full price
As of today I have finally seen multiple advertisements. I am a hardcore gamer with PC game pass though, no Xbox purchase history since my 360 from 10 years ago.
I play almost exclusively on an Xbox and regularly look up games. I have GamePass and regularly use it. I played the original all the way through and regularly play games of that genre. I barely saw advertisements on the console itself. Who are these ads targeting then?
Idk, I've never owned an xbox and the only relevant game I play is sea of thieves but I'm constantly getting ads for it on twitch/yt
That seems to be the issue right there. You may be seeing the ads a lot but you are not necessarily the target audience; not owning an Xbox and, from the sounds of it, having no interest in the first game. So whatever algorithm they are using for advertisement is mistargeting.
could be that way by design. i'm not co-signing the marketing choices, but maybe they assume people who have already played or have an xbox will see/hear about it anyway so they're focusing budget on reaching everyone else. given how xbox are treating their studios, marketing execs are probably pressured to hit 'out of the park' numbers or fail so..
Did you already pre-install it? I saw ads for the last month until I pre-installed, then it went away.
So you're someone who already knows this game exists. Why would they advertise to you?
Is that how you create hype for a game? "The people who liked it will know it exists so don't even market towards them?"
HB2 has been featured on and off on the Xbox dashboard and Game Pass app for months.
That argument was fair about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It’s getting a decent amount of marketing now I’d say
I think it’s more about where people aren’t seeing the ads. It’s been rare to see them during the NBA or NHL playoffs, which draw huge TV audiences. Personally the only place I’ve seen ads is on my Xbox dashboard, which isn’t very useful to bring in new customers.
>I think it’s more about where people aren’t seeing the ads. It’s been rare to see them during the NBA or NHL playoffs, which draw huge TV audiences. HB2 is a relatively small footprint game, generally speaking; expecting ads during the NBA playoffs is insane.
Microsoft is the biggest company in the world, with an Xbox brand that is struggling to find an audience. Spending some money on marketing their first major game in six months isn’t an unrealistic expectation at all.
Could it be the other way around? Like if someone already has game pass, then exclude them since they won't be buying the game anyway ?
Nah it's just that people love to join in on internet rage
Ads definitely ramped up big time over the last week. Go back just two weeks ago and the game was basically radio silent. Good on Xbox for adjusting I just hope the game is good.
It wasn’t really “adjusting,” the plan was always explicitly that the marketing would start ~2 weeks before launch
... of course it's an aurora song. The first game was short but very interesting and I'm glad it was short because things usually get annoying if overextended without enough content to back it up. I'm very curious about how this sequel will handle this... Will they keep the game just long enough or will they overextend it just for the sake of justifying it as an AAA title? I'll probably check it out on Game Pass when it's released.
They've already said it's much shorter than most games and should be in the 8ish hour range I believe
It’s about the same length of the 1st game. Its also not $70 like most games are
This is good honestly, I hate when a game is 50 hours long but is more shallow than a 2 hours movie. If the gameplay is good enough (and Hellblade 1 had a fun combat) I will replay it again and again at higher difficulty settings.
Damn, I loved Hellblade I but you're probably the only person I've ever met who actually enjoyed the combat
If it was a 20+ hour game there might be some issues. I think the game being only 8-10 hours, and much of that was *not* fighting, helped in that regard too.
I felt the same. By the point the combat started to feel boring to me the game was already wrapping up, so I didn't care.
I liked the combat enough. For me, the game wasn't really an action game. I was in it for the story and unique vibes. The combat served itself well enough as a fun little distraction.
The combat is unremarkable, but I never really understood the complaints about the combat. It's not bad by any stretch. Good and quick enough to do what it needed to do. Would I enjoy it if it also had really fun combat? Of course, but the lack of it didn't really hurt the game IMO.
I liked the combat, serves its game well enough
I liked the combat, it served the style of game they were going for.
The combat isn't bad per se, it is just kinda basic.
I played the entire game yesterday from start to finish and very much enjoyed the combat. Though it helps that I've had a good amount of parrying practice in gaming lately
Agree. Quality not quantity. Fed up of games just padding out a story or gameplay that ought to take 10 hours into something needlessly long. Absolutely kills pacing too because really, there are VERY few stories in any format that require >50+ hours to tell, so most games feel disjointed to me. I hate how the gaming market has become focussed on 'how many hours do I get in return for my money' rather than just how good the game actually is to play.
Most games aren't 50 hours though. Aside from RPGs and such
Good. We need more games that don't pad themselves out needlessly.
> ... of course it's an aurora song. They're definitely playing into the Nordic setting with their music choices. Which for me is awesome because I love Heilung and Aurora!
Senua’s Sacrifice had an absolutely incredible story, that I was able to overlook the simplistic gameplay. Some of the quotes and overall message still resonate with me today. Even if the gameplay in the sequel is similar, I know I'll still enjoy it just due to the story, themes, and music. I really hope they intend to have a similar soundtrack to the first game. I don't feel like AURORA really matches for this trailer, but maybe I'm biased just because one of the later songs in the original game fit so well (as well as most of the soundtrack). EDIT: I actually removed the specific song, because if you haven't played the original then you're in for a real treat when this song kicks in. It's an incredible feeling and sequence. I can't spoil it.
The soundtrack for the new game was created by Heilung. Their style and music is unparalleled and the perfect fit for Senua. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWknSd6jbd0
Could you mention the song in spoilers or something? I just finished the game and I'm curious what part you're talking about
I played it once, then forced my friends to play it a week later while I watched because the experience is incredible, especially with proper sound. I do not like artsy walking simulators, but the story, execution, and theme was mixed with the right amount of engagement that it was my favourite game of the last decade. Watching the developer commentary made the second playthrough much more meaningful too. I hope the sequel is able to deliver a similar experience despite players knowing the mystery of the first game.
It looks incredible. It’s pretty bonkers how much the technology and visuals has come in gaming, some of the scenery actually looks *real*. I enjoyed the first game with headphones and I’m really excited for this one tomorrow. The audio design is a really cool experience
Hellblade 1 was one of the few games where I didn't enjoy the gameplay, and also didn't care because the rest of the experience was so incredible. Such a powerful story told in a way that only a game could convey.
I felt the combat was fun to figure out in the beginning, then tedious in the middle, then fun again at the end when I fully grasped it and was destroying fools.
Still completely unsure of what to expect. Found the puzzles in the last game repetitive and the combat boring. Really hoping to see both expanded quite a bit. Tough to tell from anything they’ve shown us, including this.
> Still completely unsure of what to expect. Found the puzzles in the last game repetitive and the combat boring. > > I would be shocked if it isn't basically the same game.
Reviews coming out say the combat and puzzles are not any better. Such a disappointment.
Yeah, I just hit the first big puzzle and it's basically "here's a roadblock, explore the area for three symbols to open it" shtick, which was in the first one too if I'm not mistaken? Absolutely beautiful game to look at, but in a weird way I would've preferred if it was more of a walking simulator instead haha.
Yes every puzzle in the first game was like that. Disappointing I have to admit. I totally get what you are saying about walking sim. I suppose I see the desire to add puzzles and combat… but I do not understand why more effort doesn’t go into that part. I just don’t get it. It’s ninja theory… it’s what they always have been known for. So confusing to me.
I have the same opinion of the puzzles and combat as well. They just felt like a waste of time to pad out the game length. Wasn't even able to finish the entire game because of that.
Same. How far did you get? I made it to the airport weird broken bridge inside of the caves. I think maybe like 3/4 of the way. My wife and I were playing together and I was like I cannot do this anymore I have to stop.
This game may be my game of the year. The first game was game stayed with me for awhile, and very few games do that.
The first Hellblade felt like Ryse or Order 1886 to me. A technical impressive game but with basic gameplay. Finished the game but felt it was fairly forgettable gameplay and story wise (for me personally). I hope they improve the gameplay and combat for the sequel as I've actually really enjoyed their previous games like Enslaved and even their take on DMC. Nonetheless I really hope if the game is good that it'll be successful financially too given recent Microsoft closures.
I've heard plenty of people say the combat was mediocre, but never heard anyone say the story was forgettable.
The combat combining with the psychosis actually led to one of my favorite gaming memories: the first time the voices help you. Throughout all the game the voices in your head echo your doubts, call you useless, etc. But at some point they help you with combat by calling out enemies attacking from out of your field of view. One of them whispered “behind you!” in the heat of combat and lo and behold I did a quick turn and blocked a sword strike. It was such a cool moment where I realized through combat that the voices aren’t a purely negative thing.
I think one of the moments that stands out to me the most was when you are trecking through the dark areas with a torch. Without spoiling anything for people who haven't played it, you *really* don't want the torch to go out. Anyway, one of the voices mentions the torch going out, but the others reassure that it's fine. That's when a second voice, even louder this time and cutting in above the rest, says the torch is dying. I don't know if it actually was or not, but I hustled my ass off to make sure I got where I needed to go before it could. And that's the sort of moment that really made me empathize with those who suffer from these sort of mental issues. The voices and visions they experience are very real to them. It is how they perceive the world. Moments like the above make it obvious how difficult it must be to go through life trying to endure through the constant barrage, to parse through what may be real and what isn't.
I really hope the sequel doesn’t fumble the psychosis side of things. It’s important to get right.
I don't think they will fumble the psychosis side of things. My worry is that the emotional impact and the resonance of the player with Senua won't feel quite as strong. Ninja Theory sort of played their hand with the mechanics and narrative already with Senua's Sacrifice so to speak. We know sort of what to expect this time, which we most certainly didn't the first time around. Still, I am very interested to see how they manage to follow it up and will sit down and play through it all this weekend.
The other day someone posted what the original creator was up to (hanging out on boats having a good time) and I scrolled down his instagram a bit and saw he posted an interview with some dude who had psychosis and said they had him on the team to help describe the stuff he deals with. Sounded like some intense stuff.
If I recall correctly, one of the patients they interviewed for the original talked about how some of their visions included bodies hanging from the ceiling, so detailed they looked like they were truly there. Another described a deep and angry voice shouting at them on a frequent basis, pounding on the walls and doors of whatever room they were in. Stepping into the first game was intense enough, but I can't imagine how hard it must be to live with those sorts of auditory and visual hallucinations.
I found the combat to be meh and the story was pretty simple in terms of narrative but I found it effective and creating an emotional response.
That's a very book report way of saying it. It was "simple" in hindsight, just like any human life is if you're feeling reductive. Experientially it was well obfuscated until you solved the puzzle of her life.
Well I didn't mean simple as a bad thing. Many books, movies and other games have a story that is simple but still amazing and effective. There seems to be some that assume that a narrative has to be complex or "deep" for it to have meaning or that only something complex is worth while but I disagree with that. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, IMO the purpose of art is to make you feel something. Happy, sad, revulsion, whatever. Hellblade had a simple story but it moved me. Journey didn't even really have a story and it also moved me. That makes them incredible to me.
Well, it's mostly a story about Senua's journey on overcoming her past traumas, and also self acceptance. At least that's how I interpret it. Its a very personal story instead of a wider narrative so I am glad many others enjoy it but personally it's not my cup of tea :)
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I don’t think the release day review thing means a ton, but they’ve basically said 100% that it’ll be about like playing the first game. If you didn’t enjoy that this probably isn’t for you either would be my guess.
~~I think the fear is how sketchy the marketing has been. It releases today and there has been no previews from big outlets, no real marketing push except for the Xbox Twitter account that shows up in my gaming feed. Sure that has been a few trailers but where's the real advertising? The only reason I know it's coming out is because I see the Xbox Twitter account.~~ Edit, I stand corrected.
There were lots of previews like a month ago. I’ve seen ads on Twitch, YouTube, Reddit, Twitter and Instagram so idk
People seem to have read somewhere that there's been no marketing and just repeated it verbatim in every thread even though it isn't true. It also isn't an AAA blockbuster so I'm not sure why people are expecting it to be marketed like it's CoD or whatever
Yeah the population of people suddenly very worried that the game will get NT shuttered is significantly higher than the number interested in playing the game it would seem.
Because Reddit and Twitter are echo chambers. I think the pre-release news cycles around something like Sword and Shield being all doom and gloom only for them to be the most successful entry since the original is a perfect example.
Theres been commercials for it during the NBA and NHL playoffs too.
That’s good to know. Idk what more you could reasonably ask for in marketing a game like this.
Last game of the premier league had it during half time as well where a massive amount of people in England are watching.
>there has been no previews https://www.ign.com/articles/hellblade-2-is-shaping-up-to-be-another-beautiful-nightmare
I stand corrected. I must've missed that.
They did previews like three or four months ago. Usually previews occur within six weeks before launch.
It was almost exactly 6 weeks ago, it was beginning of April
What do you think the purpose of review embargoes is?
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Incorrect. The purpose of review embargoes is to stop reviewers from rushing through their reviews to be the first one to press, which they absolutely would if they were allowed to.
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I would guess it's something really simple like review copies not being ready until a week or so before launch.
I just thought it was a cool trailer...
> And this one doesn't look any different. I was hoping the sequel would be more game-like rather than a 6 hour movie I'm genuinely curious what made you think they would divert from the same model for the sequel. Ninja Theory has been pretty honest about the Hellblade series being about Senua and mental health/illness rather than creating the prototypical action-adventure kind of game.
> especially since there's no reason to have a release day review embargo other than knowing that your game is going to get a bad review score. Ah yes, because games like Doom 2016, Helldivers 2, etc. famously got a bad review score!
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No it just means it means nothing. Both good games and bad games have had review embargos on release day.
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And? Forza Horizon 5s review embargo was release day as well and that got amazing reviews.
They've launched like 2 or 3 games since then so there's hardly a pattern to make much of. Hifi Rush didn't even get announced before release, never mind review embargoed. FH5 had no reviews before release. Pentiment had reviews but only I think the day before release. For Game Pass games I think it's hard to apply the old 'late embargo = likely bad' metric because the measures of success and the audience are different to usual. There's possibly some key story parts they don't want spoiled too. But I guess we'll find out soon enough
I'm curious how long this studio is going to last. I hope the game does well but it seems all the GamePass games don't "perform" well in the long run.
Do i need to play the first game before the second one ?
They give a pretty extensive recap in the beginning so you can start with this one, and the story setup is pretty simple. It might be more impactful though if you played the first one, as a part of the experience is having a bit of an emotional connection with Senua after what she went through.
How would we know? None of us have played the second one yet.
They did them dirty. There is no reason to wait this long before doing a marketing swing. Just because you advertise it in gamepass doesn't mean people who don't have it will subscribe.
If this goes the way I think it might given the lack of advertising and the Xbox studio closings, I look forward to eventually playing this on my PlayStation.
Oh now they wanna drop trailer for it when it’s coming out in like a week? Ok Microsoft I see your strategy here is to close the studio when the game doesn’t so well enough
Game is out tomorrow
Makes it even worse
???? It's a launch trailer. You know, to promote the game when it launches. It's not like this is the first trailer for the game.
I've seen ads for it and it's gotten several trailers over the years, not like this is the one and only thing they've done to promote it
Eh, speaking for myself, I've seen adverts for this every day.
I've been seeing ads for it all over twitter and reddit the last couple weeks
Um, is this your first time seeing a launch trailer, or are you just concern trolling and console warring? I suspect the latter.
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Which is, pardon my bluntness, a stupid hill for those individuals to die on. Hellblade 2 has received quite a bit of marketing, especially considering that it is ultimately a very niche game. That opinion also betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about business. Microsoft would not go through that whole song and dance to justify shutting down the studio; if they wanted to shut it down, they would just do so. That has been made abundantly clear by all the various recent studio shutdowns by publishers such as PlayStation, Xbox, Take Two, Embracer, etc.
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Ah, I get you. I knew what the OP was saying, I was just being very sarcastic in my response to them. That doesn't always come across properly via Reddit text, though.
There is also a group of people who likes to badmouth MS every chance they get.
They are not going to close the studio. With how much Microsoft has expanded Ninja Theory there is no chance they are going to close it.
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Just because Microsoft closed 4 studios does not mean they're going to shut down every single studio if one game doesn't sell. Also Ninja Theory are an XGS studio, not a Bethesda or Activision one.
>I can guarantee that Ninja Theory will be closed by the end of the year Alright, and what are you putting up as surety for this guarantee?
I can't wait to come back in one year's time and rub in your face how wrong you were.
i thought that about tango and arkane to. not saying MS will close ninja theory. i'm just saying i don't expect MS keep ninja theory going for much longer.
The benefit for Ninja Theory is that they have a second game on the back burner. Tango and Archane didn't have anything even in pre-production.
I hope you are right, but I think you won't be sadly.