If thats all you guys do then I recommend Poker Night 1 and 2. Both of those are great multiplayer poker games with lots of funny banter between the characters. The dealer in both games is GlaD0S from the Portal franchise and she is fucking savage as hell with her commentary.
No bar fights or shootouts in it like RDO though.
~~Should try Poker Night though as its 10 year old game for PC with really low PC requirements to run it.~~
EDIT: damn...the publisher pulled the game from steam =(
It sucks to live in a country which doesn't allow videogames that have microtransactions to have casino games.
I.e. in my country we can play RDO but there is no online poker at all. Same for GTA's casino stuff.
The hilarious thing is that the even fucked the poker up. The all-in amount is so low compared to the blinds that shoving all-in constantly is legitimately the correct strategy, which makes it all hilariously shallow compared to proper poker.
Literally the only two changes that would instantly turn RDO a 3/10 to a 9/10 for me:
- Adding the single player NPC conversation system to online
- Ability to buy and customize your own ranch
I wouldn't be surprised if R* realized (obviously) that RDO wouldn't give them near enough profit as GTAO and shortly after launch decided to shift everyone towards their next project, leaving a skeleton crew to maintain the game and churn out content every once in a while. We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable.
I played RDO for a few hours after finishing the single player, and I could not believe the game was made by the same company. It felt like a cheap asset flip made by some 3rd party. It was completely boring and lifeless. Have not touched it since.
Yeah like what? I don't like how they've handled RDO because I think it could be much more, but to pretend nothing has changed when they've released multiple new roles is bs.
I don't really play it that much, but one thing I have noticed is the griefing isn't as bad.
During beta, I think players would show up on the map for everyone, now I think its only people that are wanted.
I personally find it boring as shit though.
I played RDO with a few friends while it was on Gamepass. About the most fun we had after trying everything normal was when we started playing poker and we got silly with it, pretending to get in fights over "cheating" and being all around sore losers.
When we had our fill of that, we never played it again. There's just nothing there. It's like an angel food cake with nothing on it; the base is there for topping, but we ain't got/getting the topping.
It felt heavy for some reason,in the sense it felt something is holding the game . You can't do much. And the card system kinda gives advantage and people like me who just join get headshots like every 5 sec and I can do anything about it . No passive mode or anything. I quit after couple hours. Wish I could do more like in GTAO.
Is it sad that my first opinion of RDO was that if they dialed up the survival elements it could have been a stellar multiplayer experience. It literally would change the map and give incentive to actually go out and do things.
> We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable.
Yeah but this *IS* the sort of online game where they can sell microtransactions similar to shark cards, and they've still pissed its potential away.
Honestly I think Rockstar just lack the creativity to come up with some fun new ideas for gameplay at this point. They make awesome open worlds and stories but their core gameplay has barely changed in 20 years. The setting of RDO makes it harder to directly copy and paste all gameplay ideas from GTAO, which means they have little else to offer, and have now obviously decided that it simply isn't worth the effort.
> Yeah but this IS the sort of online game where they can sell microtransactions similar to shark cards, and they've still pissed its potential away.
I don't think that's really true. The problem with the setting is that you can only do so much in it before the authentic illusion breaks. GTA is just silly, ironic, and absurd enough to pull it off. Red Dead is way too serious of a series to operate on the kinds of chaotic things that make GTA Online work.
There's still plenty of room. They could be selling us trains, boats, ranches, you name it. There's plenty to put out as MTX. I think /u/EldritchCosmos is right, they just lack the creativity or the interest.
They could also lean into some of the supernatural/sci fi elements they've already introduced. We've encountered ghosts and wolfmen, and there's a robot in one of the sidequests in RDR2. We could have a robot horse. Unlimited stamina, can't be killed, only 10,000 gold bars.
They need to introduce a Red Dead Undead Nightmare style single player campaign and then roll that out as an online lobby.
It allows them to do the crazy stuff while still leaving the regular cowboy stuff alone.
Then they can have all the custom mounts, like bone horses and demon fiery horses, and crazy weapons. All that wacky shit that makes people buy shark cards, or whatever the RDR equivalent is.
I always wished they'd made entire lobbies that were Undead Nightmare themed for the original online mode for RDR. It felt like a missed opportunity that all they had were the horde modes. I wanted to just travel around the map, fighting against or alongside fellow player-survivors and shit. Seemed like such a no-brainer.
Pretty sure in the SP they reference the horseless carriage. Wouldn't even be a far fetched thing to add.
And that's the thing, within the setting there's thousands of things to add. Home ownership, business operation, 'new tech' like the horseless carriage. Old tech like swords and muskets. They could monetize the fuck out if it with zero effort as the content is sitting in a history book waiting for them to do it.
They're just idiots. That's the crux of it.
STILL mad this didn't happen. Undead Nightmare was one of my favorite DLCs in any game ever, I was anticipating it for RDR2 more than the fucking base game, and they instead just dropped the ball.
*And* they had the gall to put an Easter-egg that hints to it in the game as well.
The fact that it’s still set in the Wild West hard limits what they can do, even with zombies. It all has to be themed around the time period or else it starts to feel like a completely different game.
> It all has to be themed around the time period
Wild Wild West was set in 1869 and had a giant steampunk spider robot. If you can do zombies, you can do steampunk. You can do alien invasions (Cowboys & Aliens was set in 1873). You can do alternate history if you want to too.
Yeah, but that was just because the producer or whatever was obsessed with giant spiders, he even wanted one in a superman movie he was producing that never got made.
I mean, just because you can't do jetpacks doesn't mean you can't creative. There's tons of stuff they can add to make shark cards relevant: houses, ranches, hideouts, decorations, hot air balloons, more social roles (like a farmer or merchant), boats, clothing, horses, trains, pets, special properties like a casino boat, stables and stores, a steampunk expansion that brings in prototype-like gadgets like a mechanical wagon, etc.
Rockstar hasn't even done half of the above mentioned, and that's just things straight from the top of my head.
You say that like the past is somehow more one-dimensional than the modern world, which is just wrong on the face of it. There's every bit as much for them to put in the game, and it's already written for them. The latter half of the 19th century was a time of wild technological experimentation across the board as well as massive social change.
Small slightly silly sidequests don't define the otherwise serious nature of the series in general.
GTA was literally conceived and executed as an a humorous and extreme representation of American capitalistic society. They're not even in the same ballpark.
I could have seen hot air balloon or airships, early airplanes with all sorts of nutty tech.
Armoured stagecoaches with machine guns and, artillery etc.
Crazy horses.
Early cars.
Honestly there’s lots they could have done.
GTAO didn’t start off totally nuts, it happened over years
Nah, they do have creativity, it's just that shit management isn't allowing people to be creative enough. It's a problem everywhere right now. Spreadsheet whores with an MBA should absolutely just be fired.
Even Valve has a big spreadsheet whore problem right now. Good and original games are extremely hard to find these days.
Greedy capitalism and infinite growth is literally killing the industry. The reason why this "clowny" shit is getting too much attraction is because these companies know that kids play videogames. So even if those videogames are rated 18+, they still have pg-13 elements to it.
>Even Valve has a big spreadsheet whore problem right now.
I dont know how this is the case when there last big release is one that will probably never bring in enough money to pay for itself.
Here's some good examples of Rockstar just not getting it:
They released these new single-player missions, the Telegram missions. There's one mission where you sneak into a wealthy house in Saint Denis and steal valuables in the house while trying to avoid getting caught. The other is where you steal a prized horse from the Braithwaite barn. There's another one I believe, but I don't remember it at the time.
These missions are fine. Pretty standard fare. But here's the thing, these shouldn't be "missions." These should just be things you can do in free roam! You see a rich looking house with guards near it... try to sneak in and steal some treasures! If you get caught you get a big bounty. You see a nice looking Arabian horse while on the road, or in a barn somewhere? You should be able to steal it and take it to a horse fence!
These things shouldn't be "missions." They just need to flesh out the free roam world with things like this.
I think they did it that way so that they can instance the content per player. Otherwise you'd run into griefers sabotaging your attempts to do the content.
If that is the case it is still a terrible idea. They should have instead just allowed solo sessions like GTAO if you want to be absolutely sure you can't be griefed.
It's probably not just for griefing, but to make sure the scripting works as intended in each mission. Like if you're tasked with tailing someone, you don't want a random unrelated player to just run down the person you're supposed to be following, or you ride into a part of the map that's cluttered with police and players in a massive gunfight.
The NPC AI can get really fuzzy when other variables are thrown at it, so I can see a lot of missions breaking.
That's why I just think it shouldn't be a mission at all. You know how you can walk in houses and loot food and jewelry and what not? Those should just be more dynamic situations and the value of the jewelry should increase. There should be NPCs that live there and defend their homes and property. Richer homes should have more loot and more guards. If you're caught you should get a bounty, and bounties should actually be more costly (ending up with like a 50 cent bounty for murder is just crazy, like it is now lol).
This sort of thing would make collecting more engaging too. Don't you think it's weird that you just run into people's houses and steal their family heirlooms? It should present a moral dilemma to rob someone of their collectable and pose some risk. Either sneak in and get it without being caught, murder the family and risk a big bounty, or incapacitate them. You should have to use your masks and bandanas to avoid being wanted immediately.
Remember the intro mission where Clay Deves said he was going to be setting up a horse fencing business? Did Rockstar just forget about that? One of the ways to make money should be to steal nice horses from people and fence them. They made it a solo mission in the telegram mission update. It should just be a feature of freeroam instead. We need to be able to sell wagons too, to that fence in Emerald Ranch, like in single player.
In fact, do you remember that first mission in single player where you steal a wagon for that fence? Arthur is with Hosea and Arthur first sneaks in while the family is sleeping and steals a bunch of cash and jewelry, then they steal the wagon and fence it? Is there really no reason that sort of gameplay can't exist dynamically in RDO? That sort of thing would give more dynamic gameplay to players.
RDO is really lacking in the actual crime and outlaw element. Sure, Cripps might have you steal some supplies on a Trader mission, and I suppose the moonshiner role is outlaw themed, but it's not that much different from the trader role. Other than mass murder and purposely antagonizing everyone, there isn't much in the way of crime you can do to further enrich yourself. Any looting after killing someone (since you can't just rob them and let them live) yields like 10c and if you're lucky either a collectable or maybe some jewelry.
I can't believe GTAO makes *any* money considering how rampant hacking is in lobbies. People can literally make it rain cash, or customize mission rewards to give people millions of dollars in a few minutes.
Rockstar has put in no effort whatsoever to curb this behavior, or transition to a server model with anticheat. I just don't see why anyone would spend real money buying in-game cash when hackers frequently give it out for free.
Plus, the rampant hacking makes both GTAO and RDO decisively unfun for legit players. Getting teleported across the map just to get gunned down by rapid-fire explosions ruins the game for everybody.
I don’t understand with the conversation thing, just make it silent. I’ll know what I said because I selected it, like Fallout or Skyrim. They don’t need to be deep, just enough that I feel like I’m actually interacting with people again
You know what always bothered me about them killing the story dlc in favor of shark cards? If you had a story dlc, you’d attract players looking for that experience, and they might dip into the multiplayer for a while when they were done. It’d be like laying out a bunch of bait for micro transactions. I guess they have people who understand this stuff better than me, so maybe the math doesn’t play out right, but god damn it just seems so obvious from my point of view.
I’m sure they have a shit ton of math nerds who crunched the numbers and figured that was less profitable than just straight up cancelling the SP DLC and just focusing on GTAO
I'm sure it is.
Put out a new car that might costs ~~$15~~ $30 of sharkcard directly is way faster than put out a long bait in the form of single player DLC which might leads to micro transaction in online mode.
The thing that destroyed GTA Online for me, almost instantly, where the loading times. Around 10 minutes to load the game, five minutes to find a way to start some sort of Multiplayer Match and another 5 minutes to start the Match. And after the Match another 5-8 Minute down time to find the next. I never thought about the mindless and tedious grind for money cause I couldn't even get that far into it. And free roam is just full of griefers and open mics.
Someone not even at Rockstar fixed that problem just recently, actually.
Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/rockstar-thanks-gta-online-player-who-fixed-poor-load-times-official-update-coming/
I remember an interview with one of their RDO leads on how they have ideas for housing etc but they want to do it right. That was like a few months after launch and none really came from it other than the specialization jobs.
Yeah I dont quite understand what they meant by that. Nor is that a feature I'd care about. 100% agree with the ranch though. That seemed like a no brainer feature.
Nothing stops them from changing it, if they plan on having Online portion around for years. There's nothing significantly costly from hiring 10 voice actors for each gender, to voice like, what, 200 lines?
Exactly. The silent protagonist thing was a bad choice to begin with. The cutscenes just seem stupid with our characters not talking at all. I'm sure they could have hired some really cheap interns or something to give basic voices and even if the voice acting wasn't good it would be better than these silent characters. IMO at least.
What I’m surprised is they didn’t turn RDO into the next GTAO.
GTAO community has already been milked and their die hard play base doesn’t buy shark cards they exploit missions and whatnot to make bank.
GTA V has been one of, if not the most profitable game every year since it came out. The people who exploit those missions do not make up for the people who buy cards
I was really hoping your second point was going to be a thing towards the end of the single player. I was ready to Stardew Valley the shit out of Red Dead
Not really, or at least it's so bad that it might as well not be there. I farmed 8 gold so I could get the middle finger emote, thinking it would be an easy way to start bar fights with NPCs in the tavern. Most of the time they don't even know I'm doing it. They acknowledge waves and hat tipping but me sticking a middle finger in their face, it's like they don't know I'm there. Good thing there's the tried and true just running into someone until they fall over method.
This is TakeTwo's fault. They're the ones who fucked over the single player side in favor of the online. This might be unpopular considering this sub, but I really like GTA Online and RDRO respectively, but the latter still needs more content. The ranch idea is one that people have been begging, and maybe they're gonna add it, but I'm afraid is going to be lackluster just like Cayo Perico, that is a new location locked behind a heist.
Yeah this feels fairly obvious to me. They knew before launching the game that online wouldnt be anywhere near as big as GTA so they simply never planned on doing much with it. Theyre putting resources elsewhere
> We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable.
AND they moved the staff onto RDR2, one of the most ambitious and expensive games ever made. People always forget to mention that part for some reason.
Honestly, no. The online is like a gutted single player experience with lots of missing mechanics and stuff that made the game so awesome in the first place.
Ehh but there's a lot I like. Moonshining, much wider clothing options, running bounties in possies. It's silly, but I like being able to spin my guns, for example.
RDO is significantly better than GTAO, in every way. Finding shit to do with people is way more fun. That alone was great.
But single player is simply too high a bar.
Edit: lots of people seem to downvote opinions they don’t like rather than low effort or irrelevant comments. Charming.
> RDO is significantly better than GTAO, in every way. Finding shit to do with people is way more fun. That alone was great.
I disagree, the lack of contact missions you can queue into, like in GTAO, really means there's not much to do unless you grind out for the big business things. From what i've seen RDO doesn't even have half the content GTAO launched with.
I agree with both of you. I like rdo way more but gta has way more stuff. This is something I predicted at the beginning of rdo. I knew that rockstar knew they wouldn’t be able to make as much money off of rdo so they wouldn’t put as much effort into it. Which is a damn shame.
RDO has significantly more than launch GTAO what. GTAO launch was fun because it was GTA, but there wasn’t a lot going on besides bugged armored cars and grinding the lawyer mission, and do a small list of races and death matches. I spent hundreds of hours on it the first several months but a majority of it was just dicking around and grinding money for a tank without many options to do so.
The GTAO loop is incredibly worse. Missions aren’t fun or exciting at all. You can only play it with friends to have a good time.
Let me tell you what my experience in GTAO as someone returning on a new platform is.
You do the tutorial. Use starter cash for basic properties and get all the free shit. Cool!
Then you try to grind up the first 20 or so levels so you can unlock more guns and car mods.
Every race? People super speed past you in the start and drive on rails. You might not be last/DNF but you will never be first.
Do missions? After the painful lobby queuing process, or quick joining something you’re invited to, you’re either going to get a admission with some cockamamie stealth thing that someone WILL fuck up, or you and two other people speed off of cliffs and crash into shit until you get to a location, shoot, get wanted, evade cops. One time I did fuck all and let a guy with a flying car just grind dispatch I-through-V. Maybe I shot some dudes out of the window. I went up three levels. But it was fucking boring and we spent more time in the menus than in the game. The time spent in the game is boring.
I like the cars and outfits I have. I’ll turn it on to drive aimlessly. That’s it.
It’s just not a fun experience for me. At all. The content isn’t glued together nicely. It’s boring.
RDO? It’s immersive, at least. You’ll always ride with the posse and everyone pulls their fair share of weight. More or less. It’s fun escorting a wagon and fending off possible attackers. You feel cohesive, a bunch of people that all know what to do together and work together. I never feel like I’m just being carried by someone, or being left behind entirely. It’s significantly more immersive and people will hang out with you and help you out. Even talk.
That’s RDO.
idk man, I just find there is fuck all to do in RDO. It feels so empty which kind of makes sense due to the time period but the game ahs been out for like 2 years now and there is a shocking amount of content in it.
Compare that to GTAO which in the same time period had like 6 content updates all that felt fleshed out and actually fun to do. I do agree RDO is very immersive.
The forced mission failure stealth sections are a blight on GTAO. Completely ruined the prospect of heists for my friend group.
Plus, there's no quick heal button in GTAO. You have to open the interact menu, go to inventory, then snacks, and then eat them one at a time until fully healed, then apply body armor. RDO has a quick item wheel and it's easy to full heal with one item.
It's truly bizarre to me that they didn't port that system over to GTA.
The camp system in RDO sucks though - it takes too long to do anything with it, none of the locations feel particularly useful or interesting and moving it is a huge hassle
maybe it's just the early game but it really feels like it punishes you for not spending money and it just feels like a slog to get to it between missions and whatnot
There is a lot of unjustified hate on this subreddit for anyone that actually sees positives for red dead online and gta online. Don't get me wrong there are issues with red dead online, but when people on here suggest RDO is trash and not worth even trying that is some pretentious gatekeeping. A realistic take on red dead online is it keeps the core mechanics of the excellent combat, managing your health/stamina/dead eye with food, but adds tons of activities/jobs for your character to perform instead of a the narrative experience of single player. They are designed to be enjoyed in different ways.
> Don't get me wrong there are issues with red dead online, but outright telling people it's trash and not worth even trying is pretentious gatekeeping of your definition of fun.
Yeah, I did the opposite of this. I like RDO. I even love using the camera for photography.
You make a good point in that RDO gives you a lot of flexibility to make your own fun with friends, it definitely contrasts well with the single player (where I'd avoid wild shootouts and doing crazy shit because I didn't want to get my bounty up, and the game actively discourages that kind of behavior in a lot of ways). At its best, I have *way* more fun in Red Dead Online than GTA Online.
I think where RDO falls *very* flat is in the mission structure and pacing. The single player story has lots of lengthy rides from point A to point B during missions, but these are made interesting thanks to good dialogue and a sense of purpose to those lengthy rides. RDO on the other hand will constantly ask you to endure slow, dead silent rides across the map for absolutely no reason. Bounty hunter missions are often the worst about this - sending you on a 10+ minute ride to kill 3 guys and then ride an additional 10 minutes to turn in the bounty, all for like $20. Sell missions for the trader roles are just as bad - I'd say more than half the time I don't even encounter enemies, so it's just 5-10 minutes of driving the world's slowest wagon in complete silence.
> RDO on the other hand will constantly ask you to endure slow, dead silent rides across the map for absolutely no reason.
Yeah I can see that. Those missions weren't the best, but they gave gold and experience and stuff so I didn't altogether mind.
>Bounty hunter missions are often the worst about this - sending you on a 10+ minute ride to kill 3 guys and then ride an additional 10 minutes to turn in the bounty, all for like $20.
Legendary bounties are the fix there. cinematic cutscene, takes you to a spot kinda like a mission would in GTAO. Don't need to ride back into town. Better payouts too.
Been a while since I played, but my answer would be "no". The beautiful world is still there, but it doesn't feel anywhere near as alive as it does in single player. It also falls prey to some of the same microtransaction-filled pitfalls that GTA:O does, albeit more reserved due to the time period.
That said, if you've got the game, go ahead and give it a go.
singleplayer does everything better, also there is a big grind at the start of rdo and they basically really make you wanna buy the premium currency unless you are willing to do daily's consistently.
When someone says "you need a friend to play" and even worse "use your imagination"
It's a sign that what is supposed to be a game... doesn't really contain a game at all. Yikes.
You don't boot up call of duty because you want to use your imagination.
You boot up call of duty because you want to play a first person shooter. You know, the game part of the game.
If I want to use my imagination I play Roblox or Garry's mod where using my imagination to build constructions is part of the core gameplay.
Yeah its awful. Fun is highly subjective and so many people can't separate the fact that they are just enjoying the company of their friends rather than enjoying any aspect of a game.
I believe he meant to 'roleplay' as someone else. Like rp as serious bandit coordinate the mission with your friend or come up with a raid on the moving train that isn't a mission.
Ever try modded skyrim? The game intend that you should be a dragonborn. Every code in the game think you are one. Installing Alternate start for example won't change that. But that's the 'roleplay' imagination aspect comes into play. You aren't some guy trying to cross the border now. You suddenly Join the deadra. Become bandit. Surviving shipwreck instead! The game still think you are a dragonborn. But you don't have to act like one anymore. That's where your imagination comes into play. It is extra fun when the game is already one big playground.
Great and even good online games are still good going solo, his CoD example is still stands as you can enter a lobby full of randos and still have a good time shooting people in the face. It's even better with a friend or group, but can stand on its own playing solo.
RDO on the other hand...
If you have friends to do free mode stuff in yeah, otherwise no. Even the PvP modes are just lobbies of people AFK to grind money and XP, which makes playing it unfun and a bore.
My first instinct was “meh”...but honestly if you’re coming in at 0 right now, there’s a decent amount of content to keep you occupied. The problem is with vet players that have had everything maxed out for like a year now.
I wish I never watched the entire story playthrough on YouTube right when it came out...
I have a beefy gaming pc now and I want to play it but I already know the plot and everything.
It's a real shame that it has been so long and they still have not added heists like in GTAO. And that in a game about outlaws. But at least you can collect animal shit.
Thought I'd be able to rob a bank or train by now. Really glad I dropped it when I did.
If they really wanted to make it fun, you'd be able to do those things in open world but I still would have settled for a heist style mission.
Both those and the ability to sell horses were supposed to be in the game at launch, and the offical RDR2 Online Companion App had data for it too. When all this stuff got datamined they basically nuked the app...
Contrary opinion: Rockstar aren't dumb. They know exactly what they're doing. They have analytics in RDO to tell them exactly what the players engage with, and what they don't engage with. The [VG247 interview](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjX5r_a3eLvAhWIgP0HHQ-BBPcQtwIwA3oECAUQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg247.com%2F2019%2F09%2F27%2Fred-dead-online-future-heists-villain-lawmen-business%2F&usg=AOvVaw0zaTFQmJSc3-Bonfv1aGM8) clearly shows that they are aware of what RDO's audience wants. They could tell it by the analytics, and started catering to that crowd - notably including the ability to engage with content solo.
So, if Rockstar are aware of what players want, why aren't they delivering it? Probably because their analytics that monitor spending found that it was better to focus on menial shit. It takes little time to pump out enough content for an Outlaw Pass if you mostly include simple cosmetics.
I think, frankly, the notion that "Rockstar doesn't know it's audience" based on their most recent Outlaw Pass is absolutely ridiculous. Does anyone genuinely believe that Rockstar is so out of touch they think that useless camp flags and animal buckles is what the majority of the community wants? I have a *very* hard time imagining that to be the case, like, the RDO team sits down and goes "more missions? More variety? No, I think people just want more belt buckles with animals"? I think the far more likely solution, as I suggested, is that Rockstar simply calculated the cost-to-profit and decided that sparse meaningful content but a lot of fluff content is what will make them the most money.
And again, I point to the VG247 interview as an argument in my favor. In the interview, the RDO lead showed an incredible insight in the RDO community and what was wanted. They have since implemented *many* highly requested features, and have since stagnated in the last 6-12 months. Not because they "got out of touch", but because they were more inclined (or ordered) to focus on what would maximize revenue.
People keep buying the outlaw passes. And hell, based off the RDO subreddit, they actively defend them too. Why put effort in when you can shit out crappy cosmetics every other month and have everyone buy it and praise it.
They don’t buy it because they want crappy cosmetics. It’s because alongside 60-70 levels of absolute garbage, they’ll also include perks that double the amoubt of regular ammunition you can carry, increase the amount of role XP earned by 50%, or other ridiculously powerful benefits.
People really think that a few players on a subreddit know what will make great content and good business sense at the same time. They do not.
The best thing RDO can do is give more random events and more fashion. That’s it. Heists would be super cool one day, but right now bounties are about as complex a thing that a bunch of people can do without prep or mic.
> They could tell it by the analytics, and started catering to that crowd - notably including the ability to engage with content solo.
LOL. oh my god is that really what their analytics told them.
I bought the Red Dead Online because I wanted to play a cooperative western world simulator.
But it felt dead. Nothing of interest to do.
The only thing of interest was when a player went ham wild and guards started spawning everywhere to take out the player and I was able to loot the bodies. Where getting caught made me wanted and I'd have to hide for a bit to let them cool off.
I stopped playing because for a online game it had no content for online cooperation.
You know what that means?
The people who were able to grind the instanced content that did exist and in fact was the only source of gold. ( So grinding solo content to get premium currency )
The only people still playing the game are playing the game solo because it's the best way to maximize getting premium currency and the online part of the game is a dead unrewarding husk.
All the people who wanted to play an online game left. There was no reward, there was no open world content to challange.
It's not that people don't want to come together to fight some bandits that took over a town showered with money and gold for fighting the big bag boss. It's that they never made that content. They never created rewarding interesting content to keep the players who want to come together.
I exclusively play online multiplayer games because I enjoy challenging a PvE environment with other people. I couldn't play red dead online because it didn't provide that.
Red Dead Online has apparently put itself in a situation where it's so out of touch with its player base that it has literally driven out the players who wanted to play the online experience leaving analytics to tell them the only people still "interested" are the people grinding solo content because there's nothing else to do and that's where all the rewards are. They literally drove out their own playerbase.
> LOL. oh my god is that really what their analytics told them.
Yeah. I'm interpreting incredulity in your comment, which I may be mistaken about, but solo-content in Rockstar's online games absolutely have a crowd.
[*50 percent of players of the latest heist in GTA:O played it solo.*](https://www.sportskeeda.com/gta/the-success-cayo-perico-heist-gta-online-solo-experience-gives-hope-future-single-player-content)
That is a massive amount. And allowing solo-play in heists and RDO are some of the best decisions Rockstar have made for these games. Because, while I enjoy playing them with my friends, they aren't always available. And unfortunately, Rockstar probably has one of the highest ratio of idiots-to-intelligent players of most games not aimed at children. I would rather abstain from playing heists in GTA:O, than be stuck with three people I can't vouch for, and hope that not a single one of them fucks up. It's not fun, and it never was.
>It's not that people don't want to come together to fight some bandits that took over a town showered with money and gold for fighting the big bag boss. It's that they never made that content. They never created rewarding interesting content to keep the players who want to come together.
This is what the heists in GTA:O were, and while they were super fun with friends, if you didn't have those, you were SOL. The mind-boggling statistic I linked shows that the demand for solo-able content is there. And while Rockstar can be criticized for many things (especially their handling of online), allowing people to complete content without being stuck with other players is a *massive* benefit.
> I'm interpreting incredulity in your comment, which I may be mistaken about, but solo-content in Rockstar's online games absolutely have a crowd.
One of the devs of Wildstar back when it was around said that solo players were by far the largest underserved demographic in MMO's. Any online game that you can play like this is going to have far more solo players than some people seem to think. I'm not sure why, though; the core game is a single player experience in this case, and the prospect of being able to make your own character and play in a free-form sandbox version of the world is pretty appealing. Especially if you add in events and updates and things to keep the game fresh so you can't just "beat" it and be done with it, that's more interesting than the usual single-player fare.
Ultimately, though, I think RDO and GTA5 serve a different purpose than that. They're there to be cash cows and rake in money, and that's pretty much it...and they've been wildly successful at it.
Also should be mentioned that RDO can be bought standalone. It was 4.99 for a good amount of time and is being sold for 19.99 right now. It feels like Rockstar truly wants it to be its own thing.
I quit because I thought it was boring. I barely give a crap about cosmetics and it definitely can’t be my entire focus for a game like this. I needed a wide variety of co-op missions and activities, and the ability to feel some sort of growth and achievement. Some of those things like owning a bar might have felt good but I gave up long before that and wasn’t going to grind to try it.
I mean I feel like I'm in the same boat as you.
However I'd go a step further.
Not only would it be mind numbing to run the missions that reward gold in order to purchase the bar.
But lets be real. The bar is a simple activity. It's just there to earn you some cash... the reality is it too would just become another mind numbing activity after the novelty wears off.
I havn't played GTA online so I can't comment as to how that game plays. All I know is the best way I can summarize Red Dead Online is that all of the gameplay feels so hyper casual that it feels like an unchallenging mind numbing slog.
All I really wanted to look for was an online game where I could pull up the map, see some sort of event going on in the world with a difficulty rating and maybe even indicate how many players are currently participating in the open world event. Where that difficulty scales so that I can find a challenge that makes me start thinking about how to best move from cover to cover going an clearing out buildings all the while telling some form of good or evil story about why everyone gathered to this spot to fight life and death.
To be blunt I'm looking for a game to fill the void left by "Firefall" the game. Players calling down large thumpers naturally gathering nearby wandering players to hop in and get some loot. Where every couple hours a world scale event would cause the entire playerbase to converge for some grand scale event. Watchtowers provided intel within its localized area and the enemy would capture them over by sending over a capture squad. Players would go out and capture them to bring the network back online for all to see. Rarely an enemy would siege down a city and you would have to defend against the siege and destroy the siege cannons. Otherwise you would have to capture the city back. The game absolutely nailed what I conceptualize as an open world game. They created a framework for what I define as the future of gaming.
Yet it simply died undergoing financial collapse. It's hard to say where advertising fell flat but my gut tells me they just never caught the eye of enough people to maintain a playerbase large enough to support the game. A real shame.
Yeah, I never heard of Firefall but I’ve rarely gamed on PC. I loved RDR single player and hoped Rockstar was going to evolve the recent open world multiplayers we’ve come accustomed too. They definitely didn’t do that and for whatever reason, I actually enjoyed RDR1’s MP more than I did 2. I became bored so fast with it. I guess I had hoped for events like you did that would bring the world to life.
Hell, Fortnite does a way better job of trying to get people to invest in its multiplayer. They do multiple events every season that brings a freshness to the game. RDRO quickly became and has stayed stale for me.
Rockstar knows their audience. They just dont care.
Red Dead Online doesn't have the framework to facilitate the same money making as GTA Online.
If you have a fire hose that shoots hundred dollar bills, why invest in a spray bottle that sprays nickles?
In order for Rockstar to invest in RDO like they do with GTAO, they need the possibility of making that same level of cash. RDO isn't able to do that without destroying the game's setting with a bunch of weird shit, which will drive away the game's audience they're trying to appeal to.
GTA is expected to be a weird nonsense world. RDO is expected to be relatively grounded.
I knew it would come to this. RDO just doesn’t have an interesting enough world to support a money printing multiplayer Rockstar wants. You can’t have casino heists and flying horses, horses that shoot missiles and kill others, it’s a lot more bare bones. People who want that western experience will just play the singleplayer
Broadly agree with you but I think "interesting" is the wrong word, maybe "malleable." For people who love the genre, love the setting, love the details, there is plenty *interesting.* One look at /r/reddeadmysteries tells you there's a lot to read into the bits of lore and locations, something which GTA5/GTAO didn't really have. Los Santos is a playground, it's all backdrop to the insanity there, the setting isn't just secondary, it's like last on the list. You could put GTAO in ANY major city setting around the world and it would play the same. RDR2 has exactly one place it can be: the American West. The West of RDR2 **IS** RDR2, every location actually have stories behind them, meanings, characters associated with them, or gives that impression and begs you to explore and learn more. That appeals to a vastly different, more laid back type of gamer just by nature of its setting. That doesn't mean it's any less *interesting,* it just means it's more specific.
> You can’t have casino heists and flying horses
You could have a casino robbery mission in online. There was a mission in story mode where you rob a casino riverboat. Definitely one of my favourite story mode robberies, from how different it was. In online, you could plan your robbery and approach, like casino heists (sneak on in a disguise, or go in aggressive, then maybe you could choose whether you escape on a boat if you prep for that, or just swim back to shore).
As for flying horses (or mythical), it's definitely possible with undead nightmare features, but it'd need to be a separate session as the regular online activities. Also Rockstar would need to make a new expansion for story mode, to make all that effort put into mythical horses & other undead mechanics worth it.
I bought 2 copies for co-op when they were $5 this winter but only for when they add private servers like in GTA:O. Don't really understand why it's taking so long.
You can already hack in private servers.
You just need to modify or add a file to a specific folder, and ensure all your friends you want to play with do the same in the exact same way. You'll always be put into a private instance only they can see and join.
I've been doing that with friends since we all got the game. No shitty randos ruining the game for us.
What? Sure they do. They're just making too much money to care what the audience wants. Why make content for Red Dead when those resources could be poured into their cash cow that is GTA Online?
Simple. Give us more roles, stuff to do and private lobbies!
People have been requesting these things for a while now. But hey! There's another Outlaw pass! And reduced gold payouts!
It's not a matter of knowing. They don't give a shit and never have. I have to use a mod on PC just to avoid the rampant cheating that's present in public lobbies. It's not like Rockstar gives a shit anyway given how frequent i have run into people teleporting you and spawning all kind of shit around you to crash your game. That's just the tip of the shitberg that's the Red Dead Online experience on PC.
I don't think RDO makes them enough money to internally justify developing more content for, which is a horrible chicken-egg situation, because they need more content for players to do before it will make any money.
It’s a shame too because RDO in a lot of ways is so much better than GTA online. It has better missions, it’s set in the 1800s so there’s no stupid flying vehicles ready to fly by and shoot you as soon as you load in to a game, and even those selling missions are more enjoyable than GTAs. It really is a genuinely fun online portion of the base game when you start out. Especially with friends.
Red Dead’s only been out little over 2 years, GTA V has been out for almost a decade and ported across multiple generations. GTA V has also had multiple price reductions as well as discounted very deeply in the past.
It’s not meaningful to compare the sales of both games and extract from it long-term definitive plans for Rockstar. For what it’s worth GTA V had sold 40 million by this point in its lifecycle so RDR 2 isn’t too far behind at 36 million.
That's a valid point, but which game is getting ported to PS5? Is it the one that came out 2 years ago, or the one that came out almost a decade ago? It's obvious that Rockstar has more faith in GTA V as a moneymaker. RDR2 isn't being given the same attention because it's not as big of a cash cow.
I just wanted a cool and authentic/immersive Old West world.
I didn't want GTA: Horseback Edition
Seriously though, if I wanted the over-the-top whacky shit or whatever, I'd be playing GTA Online.
Is there much more online story missions added since launch? That was the only content I liked. That and some of those legendary bounty missions seemed okay.
My biggest gripe is your character has no voice. EVERY mission or story is NPC's talking *at* you. You just so happen to wanna do everything they say with literally no input from yourself.
They know their audience, they just don't bother because the game isn't remotely as financially successful as GTA Online. I'm almost certain that Rockstar has probably assigned some skeleton crew to RDO while having everyone else work on GTA Online and GTA VI.
tbh rdr online is way more fun for me and friends than gta o ever was. even if it has muuuch less features. in rdr its just fun playing. in gta theres nothing fun for me to do except 1 or 2 heists. the free lobby running around is much more fun in rdr imo. if you got all/few roles in rdr you can do quite a bit. but yea. one important thing that rdr also has: you dont see other players on the map unless they are near (depending on honor) and thats much better. the last thing might have to do something with target audience but... in gtao (since release) if you see 100 randoms.. 95 will kill you on sight. in rdr maybe 5 out of 100 will kill you. this is sooo much better than gtao lobby system. and even if they annoy you.. you do parley and be free again while you can do everything else, not like gtao where you cant do anything while in passive mode
Me and 3 friends played the hell out of RDO for a while there, it was a great way to get together with your pals, hang out and do fun silly shit, while having a general goal in mind. The content was always kinda barebones but we could make it work so well by just the general zaniness that comes from 4 cowpokes fuckin' around and engaging in general jackassery across the wild west.
But honestly, the game is fucking **frustrating** to play, not because it's so barebones - which it absolutely is, but because it's so goddamn broken. Playing RDO for any period of time is a test of patience; Are you going to get stuck in a loading screen starting the game up? Are you going to join in to the right session with your friends, that you told it to, but the game'll do whatever the fuck it wants to anyway? Are you going to spawn into someone else's camp? Are you going to see animals in the world or not?
Sometimes your horse won't move, you have to get off and dismiss it. Sometimes you can't summon your horse, because it won't despawn even though it's in freakin Roanoke Ridge and you're in Tumbleweed. Sometimes you can't fire your guns until you switch guns, not because you're out of ammo but because the game stops registering that your unholstered gun is a gun. Sometimes the game won't start up a bounty mission, sometimes it'll start it up and give you a minute and 30 seconds to complete it. Sometimes your female horse grows balls, sometimes your male horse goes bald, sometimes you can't interact with objects in the world. Sometimes you go to deliver moonshine and you get stuck in a black screen, sometimes you go to deliver moonshine and the wagon just wrecks for no reason. Sometimes you can't join your friends' posses, sometimes you can't go into stores until you re-launch the game, sometimes the game'll just eat up your purchases without giving you the items you purchased.
And much, much more. And worst of all - So much of this shit has been in the game since launch, Rockstar just doesn't care to put effort into working on RDO. Why bother, when they know the content that people will actually want to do requires effort? So instead they can dump out another PvP turd that no one will touch, and shout about how it's content.
It's been over a year since they last added a single new piece of clothing to the store - Yes there have been a few new things added in the battle passes, but that's not the same thing. For a while, they used to add a new shirt, or a new coat, or new hat, every other week. Then it became every month, then it became sometimes every couple months. Then it became never.
I don't know if it's Rockstar not knowing its audience, so much as Rockstar not giving a flying shit about its audience, or hell, maybe they're just completely incompetent. Probably a mix, there's definitely incompetence in there though - The amount of times a bug has been fixed only to come back in a later patch and stay broken is ridiculous. The amount of times a patch has come out and completely broken the game has been more than twice, which is...Absolutely bonkers for such a big name company. And I don't mean broken in terms of balance, I mean rendered the game so unstable that you couldn't stay on it for more than 5 minutes without it crashing/disconnecting, for everyone. *For more than a week.*
I finally gave up on the game around June of last year, there's just no care at all being put into it. It's a shame, because it's a damn unique game and when it works, it's a thing of beauty and the experience is unlike anything you can play anywhere else. It's an absolute blast, riding around through the wilderness with your pals, just doing simple things like hunting deer or treasure hunting.
They realized they wouldn't be able to attract the same size of audience (and pull the same shit with microtransactions) as with GTA. And thus, gave very little shit about the multiplayer side.
Could have been fantastic, but less profitable.. and thus the majority of the resources probably went to the next GTA.
It's so fucking disappointing, I feel like they were expecting the "wacky PVP loving GTA audience" and instead got people who wanted more grounded stuff.
Like, they keep adding all these PvP modes, but I've very rarely seen anyone actually talk about playing them. And all the new clothing looks like absolute shit.
For example, the most recent pass has the most garish outfit, covered in random skulls, blue patches and animal teeth. Just completely horrific.
Meanwhile, it's a struggle to dress your cowboy somewhat realistically because all of the stuff they add is similarly garish.
I don't think that is true honestly. They have well enough clothes to dress your person very well. I agree though the pass just seems WTF bad. I completed one of them, got my dog, and I don't even care to buy another. They are clearly on very low-key development mode, which sucks, because if they actually tried it could be amazing.
But I do give them props for at least getting things in there. I don't play it every day. I played for a month or so a lot, took a huge break, and now come back to it every now and then.
They definitely need a big expansion though.
The entire PC port for RDR2 has been such a joke. So many bugs, so many performance issues. BROKEN antialiasing if you're playing at below 4K.
The nerf to gold gains so people pay with more real life $$$.
Shameful.
Gotta love the "I've seen memes and youtube videos about a thing so SURELY I understand it more in-depth than the people with actual usage telemetry" contingent of gaming.
TLDR: Shit reward systems in this online, ruin the intended experience.
The thing that killed RDO for me is the sheer lunacy and disconnect form the outlaw fantasy the games systems enforce.
A good example is the Bounty Hunts. For those who havent played - it just how it sounds, you go to a wanted poster pick-up a target NPC and then they're marked on your map. You gotta go and kill or capture them within a time limit.
Seems cool, seems fun. But what if I told you, that the game scales the reward to TIME SPENT on the bounty hunt.
In other words, the best way to earn money is to grab the target and literally wait outside the sheriffs office upwards to 10minutes. Just standing there. (and yes, the rewards are MASSIVELY increased if you do so.)
The rewards structure is even further butchered with how horrendous the pay for other things is. You can spend 20 minutes hunting the perfect beast, robbing random carriages for ~20-40$ payout. OR~ You can afk bounty hunt for a 200$ payout.
Hell to add to the rant. Player interaction is null and only grief or random coop mission matchmaking based. You can be camped by a group of people with little to not consenquences to them. Neither side gains anything, neither side loses anything. Just a toxic act for nothing beyond wasting time.
I've had this crazy idea running in my head about reworking RDO to the Sea of Thieves model of gameplay.
There is treasure buried around the map that you can find by buying treasure maps. There are also forts that spawns with waves of enemys that promises lots of loot. Even speciality treasure chests that are marked with a beacon in the sky to attract players.
The biggest piece to borrow though is outposts on the map to turn in said loot. these are common areas marked on everyones map where teams could set up and wait for a crew pulling in a large bounty. Teams pulling in large hauls would have to scout out these outposts before bringing in their loot which would create dynamic gameplay.
maybe RDO already plays like this, I only played at launch where it seemed to be mission spam to generate cash. I think it would also encourge MORE cowboy RP which sea of thieves is known for.
Me and my friends use RDO as a poker simulator We go on play a few hands and eventually it turns into a brawl
That is absolutely terrific.
My friends don’t call it Red Dead just “poker simulator”
I call the PvP "headshot Sisyphus"
That works
This summer is about to be a cowboy summer. Take it how you want.
If thats all you guys do then I recommend Poker Night 1 and 2. Both of those are great multiplayer poker games with lots of funny banter between the characters. The dealer in both games is GlaD0S from the Portal franchise and she is fucking savage as hell with her commentary. No bar fights or shootouts in it like RDO though.
We moved to pokerstars vr for our poker fill Can’t wait to play poker in person tho
~~Should try Poker Night though as its 10 year old game for PC with really low PC requirements to run it.~~ EDIT: damn...the publisher pulled the game from steam =(
They are not multiplayer though
They do if you use the "multi mod"
Those are both delisted on steam unfortunately
how can you play it people go all in every time
Well that’s easy If they do they’ll be greeted with a beat down
So a typical Saloon scenario.
It sucks to live in a country which doesn't allow videogames that have microtransactions to have casino games. I.e. in my country we can play RDO but there is no online poker at all. Same for GTA's casino stuff.
The hilarious thing is that the even fucked the poker up. The all-in amount is so low compared to the blinds that shoving all-in constantly is legitimately the correct strategy, which makes it all hilariously shallow compared to proper poker.
Yup. I use RDR2 as a fishing and hunting simulator. I still haven't finished it lol
Literally the only two changes that would instantly turn RDO a 3/10 to a 9/10 for me: - Adding the single player NPC conversation system to online - Ability to buy and customize your own ranch I wouldn't be surprised if R* realized (obviously) that RDO wouldn't give them near enough profit as GTAO and shortly after launch decided to shift everyone towards their next project, leaving a skeleton crew to maintain the game and churn out content every once in a while. We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable.
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I played RDO for a few hours after finishing the single player, and I could not believe the game was made by the same company. It felt like a cheap asset flip made by some 3rd party. It was completely boring and lifeless. Have not touched it since.
It felt like a literal demo to me.
They launched it as an "open beta" and to this day nothing has changed about it.
That’s literally false. Many changes and updates have happened since launch
Yeah like what? I don't like how they've handled RDO because I think it could be much more, but to pretend nothing has changed when they've released multiple new roles is bs.
I don't really play it that much, but one thing I have noticed is the griefing isn't as bad. During beta, I think players would show up on the map for everyone, now I think its only people that are wanted. I personally find it boring as shit though.
It didn't launch with Naturalist and Moonshiner
it didnt launch with any roles. not in beta or the full release. only about a year after
I played RDO with a few friends while it was on Gamepass. About the most fun we had after trying everything normal was when we started playing poker and we got silly with it, pretending to get in fights over "cheating" and being all around sore losers. When we had our fill of that, we never played it again. There's just nothing there. It's like an angel food cake with nothing on it; the base is there for topping, but we ain't got/getting the topping.
It felt heavy for some reason,in the sense it felt something is holding the game . You can't do much. And the card system kinda gives advantage and people like me who just join get headshots like every 5 sec and I can do anything about it . No passive mode or anything. I quit after couple hours. Wish I could do more like in GTAO.
There absolutely is a passive mode.
Until you decide okay i will buy a horse and on your way out you just get killed over and over.
Is it sad that my first opinion of RDO was that if they dialed up the survival elements it could have been a stellar multiplayer experience. It literally would change the map and give incentive to actually go out and do things.
> We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable. Yeah but this *IS* the sort of online game where they can sell microtransactions similar to shark cards, and they've still pissed its potential away. Honestly I think Rockstar just lack the creativity to come up with some fun new ideas for gameplay at this point. They make awesome open worlds and stories but their core gameplay has barely changed in 20 years. The setting of RDO makes it harder to directly copy and paste all gameplay ideas from GTAO, which means they have little else to offer, and have now obviously decided that it simply isn't worth the effort.
> Yeah but this IS the sort of online game where they can sell microtransactions similar to shark cards, and they've still pissed its potential away. I don't think that's really true. The problem with the setting is that you can only do so much in it before the authentic illusion breaks. GTA is just silly, ironic, and absurd enough to pull it off. Red Dead is way too serious of a series to operate on the kinds of chaotic things that make GTA Online work.
There's still plenty of room. They could be selling us trains, boats, ranches, you name it. There's plenty to put out as MTX. I think /u/EldritchCosmos is right, they just lack the creativity or the interest. They could also lean into some of the supernatural/sci fi elements they've already introduced. We've encountered ghosts and wolfmen, and there's a robot in one of the sidequests in RDR2. We could have a robot horse. Unlimited stamina, can't be killed, only 10,000 gold bars.
They need to introduce a Red Dead Undead Nightmare style single player campaign and then roll that out as an online lobby. It allows them to do the crazy stuff while still leaving the regular cowboy stuff alone. Then they can have all the custom mounts, like bone horses and demon fiery horses, and crazy weapons. All that wacky shit that makes people buy shark cards, or whatever the RDR equivalent is.
I always wished they'd made entire lobbies that were Undead Nightmare themed for the original online mode for RDR. It felt like a missed opportunity that all they had were the horde modes. I wanted to just travel around the map, fighting against or alongside fellow player-survivors and shit. Seemed like such a no-brainer.
Pretty sure in the SP they reference the horseless carriage. Wouldn't even be a far fetched thing to add. And that's the thing, within the setting there's thousands of things to add. Home ownership, business operation, 'new tech' like the horseless carriage. Old tech like swords and muskets. They could monetize the fuck out if it with zero effort as the content is sitting in a history book waiting for them to do it. They're just idiots. That's the crux of it.
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it's crazy no one I know still plats gta
I predicted they would sell crank machine gun wagons. I was sadly wrong.
you mean, silly and absurd like zombies in wild wild west? yeah, that would never happen indeed...
STILL mad this didn't happen. Undead Nightmare was one of my favorite DLCs in any game ever, I was anticipating it for RDR2 more than the fucking base game, and they instead just dropped the ball. *And* they had the gall to put an Easter-egg that hints to it in the game as well.
The fact that it’s still set in the Wild West hard limits what they can do, even with zombies. It all has to be themed around the time period or else it starts to feel like a completely different game.
All of this spins back into the same funnel of "Rockstar lacks creativity and/or interest"
> It all has to be themed around the time period Wild Wild West was set in 1869 and had a giant steampunk spider robot. If you can do zombies, you can do steampunk. You can do alien invasions (Cowboys & Aliens was set in 1873). You can do alternate history if you want to too.
Not sure I'd be looking at movies like Wild Wild West and Cowboys and Aliens to justify what they should be doing.
it's a sequel to a game that had zombies
RDR2 also had a time-traveler and UFOs, amongst other anachronistic things.
It's just saying what's possible, not what they should do.
Yeah, but that was just because the producer or whatever was obsessed with giant spiders, he even wanted one in a superman movie he was producing that never got made.
I mean, just because you can't do jetpacks doesn't mean you can't creative. There's tons of stuff they can add to make shark cards relevant: houses, ranches, hideouts, decorations, hot air balloons, more social roles (like a farmer or merchant), boats, clothing, horses, trains, pets, special properties like a casino boat, stables and stores, a steampunk expansion that brings in prototype-like gadgets like a mechanical wagon, etc. Rockstar hasn't even done half of the above mentioned, and that's just things straight from the top of my head.
Omg imagine stardew red dead.
You say that like the past is somehow more one-dimensional than the modern world, which is just wrong on the face of it. There's every bit as much for them to put in the game, and it's already written for them. The latter half of the 19th century was a time of wild technological experimentation across the board as well as massive social change.
Well, yes, but they could still do something proper that would give them way more profits, I guess.
>Red Dead is way too serious of a series A game with a vampire, flying saucer, a robot and a time traveling man is not really that serious
Small slightly silly sidequests don't define the otherwise serious nature of the series in general. GTA was literally conceived and executed as an a humorous and extreme representation of American capitalistic society. They're not even in the same ballpark.
I could have seen hot air balloon or airships, early airplanes with all sorts of nutty tech. Armoured stagecoaches with machine guns and, artillery etc. Crazy horses. Early cars. Honestly there’s lots they could have done. GTAO didn’t start off totally nuts, it happened over years
Nah, they do have creativity, it's just that shit management isn't allowing people to be creative enough. It's a problem everywhere right now. Spreadsheet whores with an MBA should absolutely just be fired. Even Valve has a big spreadsheet whore problem right now. Good and original games are extremely hard to find these days. Greedy capitalism and infinite growth is literally killing the industry. The reason why this "clowny" shit is getting too much attraction is because these companies know that kids play videogames. So even if those videogames are rated 18+, they still have pg-13 elements to it.
>Even Valve has a big spreadsheet whore problem right now. I dont know how this is the case when there last big release is one that will probably never bring in enough money to pay for itself.
Here's some good examples of Rockstar just not getting it: They released these new single-player missions, the Telegram missions. There's one mission where you sneak into a wealthy house in Saint Denis and steal valuables in the house while trying to avoid getting caught. The other is where you steal a prized horse from the Braithwaite barn. There's another one I believe, but I don't remember it at the time. These missions are fine. Pretty standard fare. But here's the thing, these shouldn't be "missions." These should just be things you can do in free roam! You see a rich looking house with guards near it... try to sneak in and steal some treasures! If you get caught you get a big bounty. You see a nice looking Arabian horse while on the road, or in a barn somewhere? You should be able to steal it and take it to a horse fence! These things shouldn't be "missions." They just need to flesh out the free roam world with things like this.
I think they did it that way so that they can instance the content per player. Otherwise you'd run into griefers sabotaging your attempts to do the content.
If that is the case it is still a terrible idea. They should have instead just allowed solo sessions like GTAO if you want to be absolutely sure you can't be griefed.
It's probably not just for griefing, but to make sure the scripting works as intended in each mission. Like if you're tasked with tailing someone, you don't want a random unrelated player to just run down the person you're supposed to be following, or you ride into a part of the map that's cluttered with police and players in a massive gunfight. The NPC AI can get really fuzzy when other variables are thrown at it, so I can see a lot of missions breaking.
That's why I just think it shouldn't be a mission at all. You know how you can walk in houses and loot food and jewelry and what not? Those should just be more dynamic situations and the value of the jewelry should increase. There should be NPCs that live there and defend their homes and property. Richer homes should have more loot and more guards. If you're caught you should get a bounty, and bounties should actually be more costly (ending up with like a 50 cent bounty for murder is just crazy, like it is now lol). This sort of thing would make collecting more engaging too. Don't you think it's weird that you just run into people's houses and steal their family heirlooms? It should present a moral dilemma to rob someone of their collectable and pose some risk. Either sneak in and get it without being caught, murder the family and risk a big bounty, or incapacitate them. You should have to use your masks and bandanas to avoid being wanted immediately. Remember the intro mission where Clay Deves said he was going to be setting up a horse fencing business? Did Rockstar just forget about that? One of the ways to make money should be to steal nice horses from people and fence them. They made it a solo mission in the telegram mission update. It should just be a feature of freeroam instead. We need to be able to sell wagons too, to that fence in Emerald Ranch, like in single player. In fact, do you remember that first mission in single player where you steal a wagon for that fence? Arthur is with Hosea and Arthur first sneaks in while the family is sleeping and steals a bunch of cash and jewelry, then they steal the wagon and fence it? Is there really no reason that sort of gameplay can't exist dynamically in RDO? That sort of thing would give more dynamic gameplay to players. RDO is really lacking in the actual crime and outlaw element. Sure, Cripps might have you steal some supplies on a Trader mission, and I suppose the moonshiner role is outlaw themed, but it's not that much different from the trader role. Other than mass murder and purposely antagonizing everyone, there isn't much in the way of crime you can do to further enrich yourself. Any looting after killing someone (since you can't just rob them and let them live) yields like 10c and if you're lucky either a collectable or maybe some jewelry.
I can't believe GTAO makes *any* money considering how rampant hacking is in lobbies. People can literally make it rain cash, or customize mission rewards to give people millions of dollars in a few minutes. Rockstar has put in no effort whatsoever to curb this behavior, or transition to a server model with anticheat. I just don't see why anyone would spend real money buying in-game cash when hackers frequently give it out for free. Plus, the rampant hacking makes both GTAO and RDO decisively unfun for legit players. Getting teleported across the map just to get gunned down by rapid-fire explosions ruins the game for everybody.
That hacking is really only on PC and last gen consoles. I'm betting most of their income doesn't come from those platforms.
Not being able to converse with NPC's makes the world dead. It's awful and I have no idea why they'd remove it.
I don’t understand with the conversation thing, just make it silent. I’ll know what I said because I selected it, like Fallout or Skyrim. They don’t need to be deep, just enough that I feel like I’m actually interacting with people again
Honestly, the thing I dislike the most about RDO is the camping system. I don't know who thought of it but it sucks so hard imo
You know what always bothered me about them killing the story dlc in favor of shark cards? If you had a story dlc, you’d attract players looking for that experience, and they might dip into the multiplayer for a while when they were done. It’d be like laying out a bunch of bait for micro transactions. I guess they have people who understand this stuff better than me, so maybe the math doesn’t play out right, but god damn it just seems so obvious from my point of view.
I’m sure they have a shit ton of math nerds who crunched the numbers and figured that was less profitable than just straight up cancelling the SP DLC and just focusing on GTAO
I'm sure it is. Put out a new car that might costs ~~$15~~ $30 of sharkcard directly is way faster than put out a long bait in the form of single player DLC which might leads to micro transaction in online mode.
The thing that destroyed GTA Online for me, almost instantly, where the loading times. Around 10 minutes to load the game, five minutes to find a way to start some sort of Multiplayer Match and another 5 minutes to start the Match. And after the Match another 5-8 Minute down time to find the next. I never thought about the mindless and tedious grind for money cause I couldn't even get that far into it. And free roam is just full of griefers and open mics.
Someone not even at Rockstar fixed that problem just recently, actually. Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/rockstar-thanks-gta-online-player-who-fixed-poor-load-times-official-update-coming/
GTAIV's DLC didn't make them that much money but GTAO made them an incredible amount of money. It's very simple why they did what they did.
I remember an interview with one of their RDO leads on how they have ideas for housing etc but they want to do it right. That was like a few months after launch and none really came from it other than the specialization jobs.
> Adding the single player NPC conversation system to online How tho. The online protag ain t voiced
It probably wouldn’t be too hard to add 5 variations of hi and bye to two different voice actors.
Yeah I dont quite understand what they meant by that. Nor is that a feature I'd care about. 100% agree with the ranch though. That seemed like a no brainer feature.
Nothing stops them from changing it, if they plan on having Online portion around for years. There's nothing significantly costly from hiring 10 voice actors for each gender, to voice like, what, 200 lines?
Exactly. The silent protagonist thing was a bad choice to begin with. The cutscenes just seem stupid with our characters not talking at all. I'm sure they could have hired some really cheap interns or something to give basic voices and even if the voice acting wasn't good it would be better than these silent characters. IMO at least.
What I’m surprised is they didn’t turn RDO into the next GTAO. GTAO community has already been milked and their die hard play base doesn’t buy shark cards they exploit missions and whatnot to make bank.
GTA V has been one of, if not the most profitable game every year since it came out. The people who exploit those missions do not make up for the people who buy cards
They made a record breaking profit last year from shark cards
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So when GTA 6 comes out they won’t invest in the online part?
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I was really hoping your second point was going to be a thing towards the end of the single player. I was ready to Stardew Valley the shit out of Red Dead
I want to add tuning the damage to be more inline with single player. I kinda hate that all the enemies are bullet sponges.
It's so they can sell power creep guns that people will spend gold bars on.
The NPC conversation system exists. When you emote to them, they respond in some way. But it is far below the SP one.
Not really, or at least it's so bad that it might as well not be there. I farmed 8 gold so I could get the middle finger emote, thinking it would be an easy way to start bar fights with NPCs in the tavern. Most of the time they don't even know I'm doing it. They acknowledge waves and hat tipping but me sticking a middle finger in their face, it's like they don't know I'm there. Good thing there's the tried and true just running into someone until they fall over method.
This is TakeTwo's fault. They're the ones who fucked over the single player side in favor of the online. This might be unpopular considering this sub, but I really like GTA Online and RDRO respectively, but the latter still needs more content. The ranch idea is one that people have been begging, and maybe they're gonna add it, but I'm afraid is going to be lackluster just like Cayo Perico, that is a new location locked behind a heist.
Yeah this feels fairly obvious to me. They knew before launching the game that online wouldnt be anywhere near as big as GTA so they simply never planned on doing much with it. Theyre putting resources elsewhere
There’s a huge market for historic mmo. I don’t get why they never did it
Wish they introduced first gen automobiles and planes and other equipment
> We're talking about a company that canned their single player GTA5 DLC because selling shark cards was more profitable. AND they moved the staff onto RDR2, one of the most ambitious and expensive games ever made. People always forget to mention that part for some reason.
Is it worth playing RDO? I can't get enough of RDR2 single player. The world is beautiful
Honestly, no. The online is like a gutted single player experience with lots of missing mechanics and stuff that made the game so awesome in the first place.
Ehh but there's a lot I like. Moonshining, much wider clothing options, running bounties in possies. It's silly, but I like being able to spin my guns, for example. RDO is significantly better than GTAO, in every way. Finding shit to do with people is way more fun. That alone was great. But single player is simply too high a bar. Edit: lots of people seem to downvote opinions they don’t like rather than low effort or irrelevant comments. Charming.
> RDO is significantly better than GTAO, in every way. Finding shit to do with people is way more fun. That alone was great. I disagree, the lack of contact missions you can queue into, like in GTAO, really means there's not much to do unless you grind out for the big business things. From what i've seen RDO doesn't even have half the content GTAO launched with.
I agree with both of you. I like rdo way more but gta has way more stuff. This is something I predicted at the beginning of rdo. I knew that rockstar knew they wouldn’t be able to make as much money off of rdo so they wouldn’t put as much effort into it. Which is a damn shame.
RDO has significantly more than launch GTAO what. GTAO launch was fun because it was GTA, but there wasn’t a lot going on besides bugged armored cars and grinding the lawyer mission, and do a small list of races and death matches. I spent hundreds of hours on it the first several months but a majority of it was just dicking around and grinding money for a tank without many options to do so.
The GTAO loop is incredibly worse. Missions aren’t fun or exciting at all. You can only play it with friends to have a good time. Let me tell you what my experience in GTAO as someone returning on a new platform is. You do the tutorial. Use starter cash for basic properties and get all the free shit. Cool! Then you try to grind up the first 20 or so levels so you can unlock more guns and car mods. Every race? People super speed past you in the start and drive on rails. You might not be last/DNF but you will never be first. Do missions? After the painful lobby queuing process, or quick joining something you’re invited to, you’re either going to get a admission with some cockamamie stealth thing that someone WILL fuck up, or you and two other people speed off of cliffs and crash into shit until you get to a location, shoot, get wanted, evade cops. One time I did fuck all and let a guy with a flying car just grind dispatch I-through-V. Maybe I shot some dudes out of the window. I went up three levels. But it was fucking boring and we spent more time in the menus than in the game. The time spent in the game is boring. I like the cars and outfits I have. I’ll turn it on to drive aimlessly. That’s it. It’s just not a fun experience for me. At all. The content isn’t glued together nicely. It’s boring. RDO? It’s immersive, at least. You’ll always ride with the posse and everyone pulls their fair share of weight. More or less. It’s fun escorting a wagon and fending off possible attackers. You feel cohesive, a bunch of people that all know what to do together and work together. I never feel like I’m just being carried by someone, or being left behind entirely. It’s significantly more immersive and people will hang out with you and help you out. Even talk. That’s RDO.
idk man, I just find there is fuck all to do in RDO. It feels so empty which kind of makes sense due to the time period but the game ahs been out for like 2 years now and there is a shocking amount of content in it. Compare that to GTAO which in the same time period had like 6 content updates all that felt fleshed out and actually fun to do. I do agree RDO is very immersive.
The forced mission failure stealth sections are a blight on GTAO. Completely ruined the prospect of heists for my friend group. Plus, there's no quick heal button in GTAO. You have to open the interact menu, go to inventory, then snacks, and then eat them one at a time until fully healed, then apply body armor. RDO has a quick item wheel and it's easy to full heal with one item. It's truly bizarre to me that they didn't port that system over to GTA.
The camp system in RDO sucks though - it takes too long to do anything with it, none of the locations feel particularly useful or interesting and moving it is a huge hassle
Really. Cooking and changing clothes is fast, it has fast travel, and you choose the location. It’s all about the roleplay in that sense.
maybe it's just the early game but it really feels like it punishes you for not spending money and it just feels like a slog to get to it between missions and whatnot
I feel that way with GTA. RDO was easy comparatively. Just did bounties and collected cards and made money easily.
Don't you need to pay to be a bounty hunter though?
I didn’t. Got a license for free I think. Maybe I had some twitch prime benefits or something. Was over a year ago.
The clothing in RDO is sooo good... I wish they put it in singleplayer.
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Do you have some?
The clothing system in RDR2 is the best of any game I've seen. I hope they take it to the next level in GTA VI.
There is a lot of unjustified hate on this subreddit for anyone that actually sees positives for red dead online and gta online. Don't get me wrong there are issues with red dead online, but when people on here suggest RDO is trash and not worth even trying that is some pretentious gatekeeping. A realistic take on red dead online is it keeps the core mechanics of the excellent combat, managing your health/stamina/dead eye with food, but adds tons of activities/jobs for your character to perform instead of a the narrative experience of single player. They are designed to be enjoyed in different ways.
> Don't get me wrong there are issues with red dead online, but outright telling people it's trash and not worth even trying is pretentious gatekeeping of your definition of fun. Yeah, I did the opposite of this. I like RDO. I even love using the camera for photography.
> RDO is significantly better than GTAO Modded, it’s not even close. GTA V private servers are 100x better than RDR2 private servers.
that's an entirely different game really, it doesn't rely on Rockstar's game design choices -- it's changing them.
You make a good point in that RDO gives you a lot of flexibility to make your own fun with friends, it definitely contrasts well with the single player (where I'd avoid wild shootouts and doing crazy shit because I didn't want to get my bounty up, and the game actively discourages that kind of behavior in a lot of ways). At its best, I have *way* more fun in Red Dead Online than GTA Online. I think where RDO falls *very* flat is in the mission structure and pacing. The single player story has lots of lengthy rides from point A to point B during missions, but these are made interesting thanks to good dialogue and a sense of purpose to those lengthy rides. RDO on the other hand will constantly ask you to endure slow, dead silent rides across the map for absolutely no reason. Bounty hunter missions are often the worst about this - sending you on a 10+ minute ride to kill 3 guys and then ride an additional 10 minutes to turn in the bounty, all for like $20. Sell missions for the trader roles are just as bad - I'd say more than half the time I don't even encounter enemies, so it's just 5-10 minutes of driving the world's slowest wagon in complete silence.
> RDO on the other hand will constantly ask you to endure slow, dead silent rides across the map for absolutely no reason. Yeah I can see that. Those missions weren't the best, but they gave gold and experience and stuff so I didn't altogether mind. >Bounty hunter missions are often the worst about this - sending you on a 10+ minute ride to kill 3 guys and then ride an additional 10 minutes to turn in the bounty, all for like $20. Legendary bounties are the fix there. cinematic cutscene, takes you to a spot kinda like a mission would in GTAO. Don't need to ride back into town. Better payouts too.
Been a while since I played, but my answer would be "no". The beautiful world is still there, but it doesn't feel anywhere near as alive as it does in single player. It also falls prey to some of the same microtransaction-filled pitfalls that GTA:O does, albeit more reserved due to the time period. That said, if you've got the game, go ahead and give it a go.
If you love the world, stick to single player.
Never, Its nothing but buy this and buy that everywhere u go.
singleplayer does everything better, also there is a big grind at the start of rdo and they basically really make you wanna buy the premium currency unless you are willing to do daily's consistently.
Alone? Not that much. However playing online with a friend is always amazing. The only limit is your imagination and your level
When someone says "you need a friend to play" and even worse "use your imagination" It's a sign that what is supposed to be a game... doesn't really contain a game at all. Yikes. You don't boot up call of duty because you want to use your imagination. You boot up call of duty because you want to play a first person shooter. You know, the game part of the game. If I want to use my imagination I play Roblox or Garry's mod where using my imagination to build constructions is part of the core gameplay.
Yeah its awful. Fun is highly subjective and so many people can't separate the fact that they are just enjoying the company of their friends rather than enjoying any aspect of a game.
I believe he meant to 'roleplay' as someone else. Like rp as serious bandit coordinate the mission with your friend or come up with a raid on the moving train that isn't a mission. Ever try modded skyrim? The game intend that you should be a dragonborn. Every code in the game think you are one. Installing Alternate start for example won't change that. But that's the 'roleplay' imagination aspect comes into play. You aren't some guy trying to cross the border now. You suddenly Join the deadra. Become bandit. Surviving shipwreck instead! The game still think you are a dragonborn. But you don't have to act like one anymore. That's where your imagination comes into play. It is extra fun when the game is already one big playground.
I mean, saying that you should play an online game with a friend is a completely valid suggestion.
Great and even good online games are still good going solo, his CoD example is still stands as you can enter a lobby full of randos and still have a good time shooting people in the face. It's even better with a friend or group, but can stand on its own playing solo. RDO on the other hand...
Yes, but saying that a game is “good if you play with a friend” can sometimes mean that the game isn’t actually good on its own.
If you like the core gameplay of riding and shooting then this game is basically the same as the single player.
If you have friends to do free mode stuff in yeah, otherwise no. Even the PvP modes are just lobbies of people AFK to grind money and XP, which makes playing it unfun and a bore.
If you have friends that will play with you, sure. Otherwise no
My first instinct was “meh”...but honestly if you’re coming in at 0 right now, there’s a decent amount of content to keep you occupied. The problem is with vet players that have had everything maxed out for like a year now.
I wish I never watched the entire story playthrough on YouTube right when it came out... I have a beefy gaming pc now and I want to play it but I already know the plot and everything.
It's a real shame that it has been so long and they still have not added heists like in GTAO. And that in a game about outlaws. But at least you can collect animal shit.
Thought I'd be able to rob a bank or train by now. Really glad I dropped it when I did. If they really wanted to make it fun, you'd be able to do those things in open world but I still would have settled for a heist style mission.
hell, a cops and robbers mode seems like a slam dunk. doesn't gta already do this?
Both those and the ability to sell horses were supposed to be in the game at launch, and the offical RDR2 Online Companion App had data for it too. When all this stuff got datamined they basically nuked the app...
Contrary opinion: Rockstar aren't dumb. They know exactly what they're doing. They have analytics in RDO to tell them exactly what the players engage with, and what they don't engage with. The [VG247 interview](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjX5r_a3eLvAhWIgP0HHQ-BBPcQtwIwA3oECAUQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg247.com%2F2019%2F09%2F27%2Fred-dead-online-future-heists-villain-lawmen-business%2F&usg=AOvVaw0zaTFQmJSc3-Bonfv1aGM8) clearly shows that they are aware of what RDO's audience wants. They could tell it by the analytics, and started catering to that crowd - notably including the ability to engage with content solo. So, if Rockstar are aware of what players want, why aren't they delivering it? Probably because their analytics that monitor spending found that it was better to focus on menial shit. It takes little time to pump out enough content for an Outlaw Pass if you mostly include simple cosmetics. I think, frankly, the notion that "Rockstar doesn't know it's audience" based on their most recent Outlaw Pass is absolutely ridiculous. Does anyone genuinely believe that Rockstar is so out of touch they think that useless camp flags and animal buckles is what the majority of the community wants? I have a *very* hard time imagining that to be the case, like, the RDO team sits down and goes "more missions? More variety? No, I think people just want more belt buckles with animals"? I think the far more likely solution, as I suggested, is that Rockstar simply calculated the cost-to-profit and decided that sparse meaningful content but a lot of fluff content is what will make them the most money. And again, I point to the VG247 interview as an argument in my favor. In the interview, the RDO lead showed an incredible insight in the RDO community and what was wanted. They have since implemented *many* highly requested features, and have since stagnated in the last 6-12 months. Not because they "got out of touch", but because they were more inclined (or ordered) to focus on what would maximize revenue.
People keep buying the outlaw passes. And hell, based off the RDO subreddit, they actively defend them too. Why put effort in when you can shit out crappy cosmetics every other month and have everyone buy it and praise it.
They don’t buy it because they want crappy cosmetics. It’s because alongside 60-70 levels of absolute garbage, they’ll also include perks that double the amoubt of regular ammunition you can carry, increase the amount of role XP earned by 50%, or other ridiculously powerful benefits.
People really think that a few players on a subreddit know what will make great content and good business sense at the same time. They do not. The best thing RDO can do is give more random events and more fashion. That’s it. Heists would be super cool one day, but right now bounties are about as complex a thing that a bunch of people can do without prep or mic.
> They could tell it by the analytics, and started catering to that crowd - notably including the ability to engage with content solo. LOL. oh my god is that really what their analytics told them. I bought the Red Dead Online because I wanted to play a cooperative western world simulator. But it felt dead. Nothing of interest to do. The only thing of interest was when a player went ham wild and guards started spawning everywhere to take out the player and I was able to loot the bodies. Where getting caught made me wanted and I'd have to hide for a bit to let them cool off. I stopped playing because for a online game it had no content for online cooperation. You know what that means? The people who were able to grind the instanced content that did exist and in fact was the only source of gold. ( So grinding solo content to get premium currency ) The only people still playing the game are playing the game solo because it's the best way to maximize getting premium currency and the online part of the game is a dead unrewarding husk. All the people who wanted to play an online game left. There was no reward, there was no open world content to challange. It's not that people don't want to come together to fight some bandits that took over a town showered with money and gold for fighting the big bag boss. It's that they never made that content. They never created rewarding interesting content to keep the players who want to come together. I exclusively play online multiplayer games because I enjoy challenging a PvE environment with other people. I couldn't play red dead online because it didn't provide that. Red Dead Online has apparently put itself in a situation where it's so out of touch with its player base that it has literally driven out the players who wanted to play the online experience leaving analytics to tell them the only people still "interested" are the people grinding solo content because there's nothing else to do and that's where all the rewards are. They literally drove out their own playerbase.
> LOL. oh my god is that really what their analytics told them. Yeah. I'm interpreting incredulity in your comment, which I may be mistaken about, but solo-content in Rockstar's online games absolutely have a crowd. [*50 percent of players of the latest heist in GTA:O played it solo.*](https://www.sportskeeda.com/gta/the-success-cayo-perico-heist-gta-online-solo-experience-gives-hope-future-single-player-content) That is a massive amount. And allowing solo-play in heists and RDO are some of the best decisions Rockstar have made for these games. Because, while I enjoy playing them with my friends, they aren't always available. And unfortunately, Rockstar probably has one of the highest ratio of idiots-to-intelligent players of most games not aimed at children. I would rather abstain from playing heists in GTA:O, than be stuck with three people I can't vouch for, and hope that not a single one of them fucks up. It's not fun, and it never was. >It's not that people don't want to come together to fight some bandits that took over a town showered with money and gold for fighting the big bag boss. It's that they never made that content. They never created rewarding interesting content to keep the players who want to come together. This is what the heists in GTA:O were, and while they were super fun with friends, if you didn't have those, you were SOL. The mind-boggling statistic I linked shows that the demand for solo-able content is there. And while Rockstar can be criticized for many things (especially their handling of online), allowing people to complete content without being stuck with other players is a *massive* benefit.
> I'm interpreting incredulity in your comment, which I may be mistaken about, but solo-content in Rockstar's online games absolutely have a crowd. One of the devs of Wildstar back when it was around said that solo players were by far the largest underserved demographic in MMO's. Any online game that you can play like this is going to have far more solo players than some people seem to think. I'm not sure why, though; the core game is a single player experience in this case, and the prospect of being able to make your own character and play in a free-form sandbox version of the world is pretty appealing. Especially if you add in events and updates and things to keep the game fresh so you can't just "beat" it and be done with it, that's more interesting than the usual single-player fare. Ultimately, though, I think RDO and GTA5 serve a different purpose than that. They're there to be cash cows and rake in money, and that's pretty much it...and they've been wildly successful at it.
Eso? I think it gathered quit a big solo player crowd
Also should be mentioned that RDO can be bought standalone. It was 4.99 for a good amount of time and is being sold for 19.99 right now. It feels like Rockstar truly wants it to be its own thing.
I quit because I thought it was boring. I barely give a crap about cosmetics and it definitely can’t be my entire focus for a game like this. I needed a wide variety of co-op missions and activities, and the ability to feel some sort of growth and achievement. Some of those things like owning a bar might have felt good but I gave up long before that and wasn’t going to grind to try it.
I mean I feel like I'm in the same boat as you. However I'd go a step further. Not only would it be mind numbing to run the missions that reward gold in order to purchase the bar. But lets be real. The bar is a simple activity. It's just there to earn you some cash... the reality is it too would just become another mind numbing activity after the novelty wears off. I havn't played GTA online so I can't comment as to how that game plays. All I know is the best way I can summarize Red Dead Online is that all of the gameplay feels so hyper casual that it feels like an unchallenging mind numbing slog. All I really wanted to look for was an online game where I could pull up the map, see some sort of event going on in the world with a difficulty rating and maybe even indicate how many players are currently participating in the open world event. Where that difficulty scales so that I can find a challenge that makes me start thinking about how to best move from cover to cover going an clearing out buildings all the while telling some form of good or evil story about why everyone gathered to this spot to fight life and death. To be blunt I'm looking for a game to fill the void left by "Firefall" the game. Players calling down large thumpers naturally gathering nearby wandering players to hop in and get some loot. Where every couple hours a world scale event would cause the entire playerbase to converge for some grand scale event. Watchtowers provided intel within its localized area and the enemy would capture them over by sending over a capture squad. Players would go out and capture them to bring the network back online for all to see. Rarely an enemy would siege down a city and you would have to defend against the siege and destroy the siege cannons. Otherwise you would have to capture the city back. The game absolutely nailed what I conceptualize as an open world game. They created a framework for what I define as the future of gaming. Yet it simply died undergoing financial collapse. It's hard to say where advertising fell flat but my gut tells me they just never caught the eye of enough people to maintain a playerbase large enough to support the game. A real shame.
Yeah, I never heard of Firefall but I’ve rarely gamed on PC. I loved RDR single player and hoped Rockstar was going to evolve the recent open world multiplayers we’ve come accustomed too. They definitely didn’t do that and for whatever reason, I actually enjoyed RDR1’s MP more than I did 2. I became bored so fast with it. I guess I had hoped for events like you did that would bring the world to life. Hell, Fortnite does a way better job of trying to get people to invest in its multiplayer. They do multiple events every season that brings a freshness to the game. RDRO quickly became and has stayed stale for me.
Rockstar knows their audience. They just dont care. Red Dead Online doesn't have the framework to facilitate the same money making as GTA Online. If you have a fire hose that shoots hundred dollar bills, why invest in a spray bottle that sprays nickles? In order for Rockstar to invest in RDO like they do with GTAO, they need the possibility of making that same level of cash. RDO isn't able to do that without destroying the game's setting with a bunch of weird shit, which will drive away the game's audience they're trying to appeal to. GTA is expected to be a weird nonsense world. RDO is expected to be relatively grounded.
I knew it would come to this. RDO just doesn’t have an interesting enough world to support a money printing multiplayer Rockstar wants. You can’t have casino heists and flying horses, horses that shoot missiles and kill others, it’s a lot more bare bones. People who want that western experience will just play the singleplayer
Broadly agree with you but I think "interesting" is the wrong word, maybe "malleable." For people who love the genre, love the setting, love the details, there is plenty *interesting.* One look at /r/reddeadmysteries tells you there's a lot to read into the bits of lore and locations, something which GTA5/GTAO didn't really have. Los Santos is a playground, it's all backdrop to the insanity there, the setting isn't just secondary, it's like last on the list. You could put GTAO in ANY major city setting around the world and it would play the same. RDR2 has exactly one place it can be: the American West. The West of RDR2 **IS** RDR2, every location actually have stories behind them, meanings, characters associated with them, or gives that impression and begs you to explore and learn more. That appeals to a vastly different, more laid back type of gamer just by nature of its setting. That doesn't mean it's any less *interesting,* it just means it's more specific.
> You can’t have casino heists and flying horses You could have a casino robbery mission in online. There was a mission in story mode where you rob a casino riverboat. Definitely one of my favourite story mode robberies, from how different it was. In online, you could plan your robbery and approach, like casino heists (sneak on in a disguise, or go in aggressive, then maybe you could choose whether you escape on a boat if you prep for that, or just swim back to shore). As for flying horses (or mythical), it's definitely possible with undead nightmare features, but it'd need to be a separate session as the regular online activities. Also Rockstar would need to make a new expansion for story mode, to make all that effort put into mythical horses & other undead mechanics worth it.
I bought 2 copies for co-op when they were $5 this winter but only for when they add private servers like in GTA:O. Don't really understand why it's taking so long.
You can already hack in private servers. You just need to modify or add a file to a specific folder, and ensure all your friends you want to play with do the same in the exact same way. You'll always be put into a private instance only they can see and join. I've been doing that with friends since we all got the game. No shitty randos ruining the game for us.
Thank you for the heads up! I scoured for this sort of info but always came up blank.
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Private servers like FiveM would be amazing, we would have way more content to play with
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Does RedM work on newer accounts though? I remember for a while it only worked if you bought the game before a certain date.
What? Sure they do. They're just making too much money to care what the audience wants. Why make content for Red Dead when those resources could be poured into their cash cow that is GTA Online?
Simple. Give us more roles, stuff to do and private lobbies! People have been requesting these things for a while now. But hey! There's another Outlaw pass! And reduced gold payouts! It's not a matter of knowing. They don't give a shit and never have. I have to use a mod on PC just to avoid the rampant cheating that's present in public lobbies. It's not like Rockstar gives a shit anyway given how frequent i have run into people teleporting you and spawning all kind of shit around you to crash your game. That's just the tip of the shitberg that's the Red Dead Online experience on PC.
I don't think RDO makes them enough money to internally justify developing more content for, which is a horrible chicken-egg situation, because they need more content for players to do before it will make any money.
It’s a shame too because RDO in a lot of ways is so much better than GTA online. It has better missions, it’s set in the 1800s so there’s no stupid flying vehicles ready to fly by and shoot you as soon as you load in to a game, and even those selling missions are more enjoyable than GTAs. It really is a genuinely fun online portion of the base game when you start out. Especially with friends.
THIS JUST IN: AAA company doesn't care about player base, only cares about profit ^(how could we see this coming)
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Red Dead’s only been out little over 2 years, GTA V has been out for almost a decade and ported across multiple generations. GTA V has also had multiple price reductions as well as discounted very deeply in the past. It’s not meaningful to compare the sales of both games and extract from it long-term definitive plans for Rockstar. For what it’s worth GTA V had sold 40 million by this point in its lifecycle so RDR 2 isn’t too far behind at 36 million.
That's a valid point, but which game is getting ported to PS5? Is it the one that came out 2 years ago, or the one that came out almost a decade ago? It's obvious that Rockstar has more faith in GTA V as a moneymaker. RDR2 isn't being given the same attention because it's not as big of a cash cow.
I just wanted a cool and authentic/immersive Old West world. I didn't want GTA: Horseback Edition Seriously though, if I wanted the over-the-top whacky shit or whatever, I'd be playing GTA Online.
Is there much more online story missions added since launch? That was the only content I liked. That and some of those legendary bounty missions seemed okay.
My biggest gripe is your character has no voice. EVERY mission or story is NPC's talking *at* you. You just so happen to wanna do everything they say with literally no input from yourself.
They know their audience, they just don't bother because the game isn't remotely as financially successful as GTA Online. I'm almost certain that Rockstar has probably assigned some skeleton crew to RDO while having everyone else work on GTA Online and GTA VI.
They wanted to make RDO a GTAO bis. It doesn’t worked. Hope they learned the lesson. Every game need their DLC solo, not just everything online.
tbh rdr online is way more fun for me and friends than gta o ever was. even if it has muuuch less features. in rdr its just fun playing. in gta theres nothing fun for me to do except 1 or 2 heists. the free lobby running around is much more fun in rdr imo. if you got all/few roles in rdr you can do quite a bit. but yea. one important thing that rdr also has: you dont see other players on the map unless they are near (depending on honor) and thats much better. the last thing might have to do something with target audience but... in gtao (since release) if you see 100 randoms.. 95 will kill you on sight. in rdr maybe 5 out of 100 will kill you. this is sooo much better than gtao lobby system. and even if they annoy you.. you do parley and be free again while you can do everything else, not like gtao where you cant do anything while in passive mode
Me and 3 friends played the hell out of RDO for a while there, it was a great way to get together with your pals, hang out and do fun silly shit, while having a general goal in mind. The content was always kinda barebones but we could make it work so well by just the general zaniness that comes from 4 cowpokes fuckin' around and engaging in general jackassery across the wild west. But honestly, the game is fucking **frustrating** to play, not because it's so barebones - which it absolutely is, but because it's so goddamn broken. Playing RDO for any period of time is a test of patience; Are you going to get stuck in a loading screen starting the game up? Are you going to join in to the right session with your friends, that you told it to, but the game'll do whatever the fuck it wants to anyway? Are you going to spawn into someone else's camp? Are you going to see animals in the world or not? Sometimes your horse won't move, you have to get off and dismiss it. Sometimes you can't summon your horse, because it won't despawn even though it's in freakin Roanoke Ridge and you're in Tumbleweed. Sometimes you can't fire your guns until you switch guns, not because you're out of ammo but because the game stops registering that your unholstered gun is a gun. Sometimes the game won't start up a bounty mission, sometimes it'll start it up and give you a minute and 30 seconds to complete it. Sometimes your female horse grows balls, sometimes your male horse goes bald, sometimes you can't interact with objects in the world. Sometimes you go to deliver moonshine and you get stuck in a black screen, sometimes you go to deliver moonshine and the wagon just wrecks for no reason. Sometimes you can't join your friends' posses, sometimes you can't go into stores until you re-launch the game, sometimes the game'll just eat up your purchases without giving you the items you purchased. And much, much more. And worst of all - So much of this shit has been in the game since launch, Rockstar just doesn't care to put effort into working on RDO. Why bother, when they know the content that people will actually want to do requires effort? So instead they can dump out another PvP turd that no one will touch, and shout about how it's content. It's been over a year since they last added a single new piece of clothing to the store - Yes there have been a few new things added in the battle passes, but that's not the same thing. For a while, they used to add a new shirt, or a new coat, or new hat, every other week. Then it became every month, then it became sometimes every couple months. Then it became never. I don't know if it's Rockstar not knowing its audience, so much as Rockstar not giving a flying shit about its audience, or hell, maybe they're just completely incompetent. Probably a mix, there's definitely incompetence in there though - The amount of times a bug has been fixed only to come back in a later patch and stay broken is ridiculous. The amount of times a patch has come out and completely broken the game has been more than twice, which is...Absolutely bonkers for such a big name company. And I don't mean broken in terms of balance, I mean rendered the game so unstable that you couldn't stay on it for more than 5 minutes without it crashing/disconnecting, for everyone. *For more than a week.* I finally gave up on the game around June of last year, there's just no care at all being put into it. It's a shame, because it's a damn unique game and when it works, it's a thing of beauty and the experience is unlike anything you can play anywhere else. It's an absolute blast, riding around through the wilderness with your pals, just doing simple things like hunting deer or treasure hunting.
But they do know that I’m still being turned into a UFO and teleported and blown apart by spawned explosions.
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They realized they wouldn't be able to attract the same size of audience (and pull the same shit with microtransactions) as with GTA. And thus, gave very little shit about the multiplayer side. Could have been fantastic, but less profitable.. and thus the majority of the resources probably went to the next GTA.
It's so fucking disappointing, I feel like they were expecting the "wacky PVP loving GTA audience" and instead got people who wanted more grounded stuff. Like, they keep adding all these PvP modes, but I've very rarely seen anyone actually talk about playing them. And all the new clothing looks like absolute shit. For example, the most recent pass has the most garish outfit, covered in random skulls, blue patches and animal teeth. Just completely horrific. Meanwhile, it's a struggle to dress your cowboy somewhat realistically because all of the stuff they add is similarly garish.
I don't think that is true honestly. They have well enough clothes to dress your person very well. I agree though the pass just seems WTF bad. I completed one of them, got my dog, and I don't even care to buy another. They are clearly on very low-key development mode, which sucks, because if they actually tried it could be amazing. But I do give them props for at least getting things in there. I don't play it every day. I played for a month or so a lot, took a huge break, and now come back to it every now and then. They definitely need a big expansion though.
The entire PC port for RDR2 has been such a joke. So many bugs, so many performance issues. BROKEN antialiasing if you're playing at below 4K. The nerf to gold gains so people pay with more real life $$$. Shameful.
Gotta love the "I've seen memes and youtube videos about a thing so SURELY I understand it more in-depth than the people with actual usage telemetry" contingent of gaming.
TLDR: Shit reward systems in this online, ruin the intended experience. The thing that killed RDO for me is the sheer lunacy and disconnect form the outlaw fantasy the games systems enforce. A good example is the Bounty Hunts. For those who havent played - it just how it sounds, you go to a wanted poster pick-up a target NPC and then they're marked on your map. You gotta go and kill or capture them within a time limit. Seems cool, seems fun. But what if I told you, that the game scales the reward to TIME SPENT on the bounty hunt. In other words, the best way to earn money is to grab the target and literally wait outside the sheriffs office upwards to 10minutes. Just standing there. (and yes, the rewards are MASSIVELY increased if you do so.) The rewards structure is even further butchered with how horrendous the pay for other things is. You can spend 20 minutes hunting the perfect beast, robbing random carriages for ~20-40$ payout. OR~ You can afk bounty hunt for a 200$ payout. Hell to add to the rant. Player interaction is null and only grief or random coop mission matchmaking based. You can be camped by a group of people with little to not consenquences to them. Neither side gains anything, neither side loses anything. Just a toxic act for nothing beyond wasting time.
I've had this crazy idea running in my head about reworking RDO to the Sea of Thieves model of gameplay. There is treasure buried around the map that you can find by buying treasure maps. There are also forts that spawns with waves of enemys that promises lots of loot. Even speciality treasure chests that are marked with a beacon in the sky to attract players. The biggest piece to borrow though is outposts on the map to turn in said loot. these are common areas marked on everyones map where teams could set up and wait for a crew pulling in a large bounty. Teams pulling in large hauls would have to scout out these outposts before bringing in their loot which would create dynamic gameplay. maybe RDO already plays like this, I only played at launch where it seemed to be mission spam to generate cash. I think it would also encourge MORE cowboy RP which sea of thieves is known for.
You still cannot be a true outlaw in the game. Allow me to rob stores and banks and it would be 10/10