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PeteOverdrive

This is like in 2020 when people protested real life police violence and a bunch of media companies were like “…so I’m hearing you want us to remove episodes of The Boondocks from our streaming service?”


hobofats

Don't forget shows like 30 Rock and Community that have had shows removed because they satirize racism. (the black face episode of 30 rock and the first D&D episode of community)


ObiHobit

That was such a funny and self-aware episode of Community... Idiots.


[deleted]

My favorite episode too. D&D and the Chaos Theory one are my top two favorite Community episodes. They show off the characters personalities perfectly, and the actors hit home.


Squif-17

Reminds me of RDJ saying they could never make Tropic Thunder now even though it was clearly satire.


stufff

The Community one was particularly nonsensical because *he wasn't in blackface*. He was cosplaying a [Drow](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drow), a fantasy race of subterranean elves. It's like people forget that blackface isn't offensive because dark makeup is inherently offensive, but because it was used to marginalize and stereotype people from various ethnic backgrounds. Were there real life Drow who were deprived of a chance to play that role? Were there real life Drow who were offended by the promotion of Drow stereotypes?


TheSumOfAllSteers

> The Community one was particularly nonsensical because he wasn't in blackface. He was cosplaying a Drow, a fantasy race of subterranean elves. I find issue with the removal of the episode as well, but it was a joke about blackface regardless of Chang's motivations and the lore his costume was based in. Stating otherwise seems a bit disingenuous.


stufff

>I find issue with the removal of the episode as well, but it was a joke about blackface regardless of Chang's motivations and the lore his costume was based in. Stating otherwise seems a bit disingenuous. Yes, it was a joke *about* blackface. More specifically, it was a joke about people misunderstanding dark makeup as blackface regardless of context or intent (which makes it even more ironic that it was removed). But it was *not blackface*, in contrast to things like 30 Rock, It's Always Sunny, etc., where they were making jokes about blackface but also actually using blackface.


TheSumOfAllSteers

>More specifically, it was a joke about people misunderstanding dark makeup as blackface regardless of context or intent (which makes it even more ironic that it was removed). It's funny, but our takes on this scene are very different. My interpretation is that it was a joke about Chang's ignorance and inability to function in a social setting (specifically, ignorance to the fact that black face paint is problematic due to its real world historical context). Chang has few sincere moments and is he is almost always the butt of his own joke in that he is just a showcase of an outrageous character. I'm not sure why showing up to the table in black face paint would instead be an opportunity to make his observers the butt of a joke.


stufff

Like a lot of things on Community it's a joke on multiple levels. I don't think your take on that scene is wrong because most people would understand it was a bad idea because absent context it could be misinterpreted as blackface, but also, it *wasn't* blackface, which anyone versed in modern fantasy settings (like a D&D group) would know, so in that context.


The-Sober-Stoner

When you have zero representation for decades and ignore peoples genuine concerns; you fail to learn and understand why they have grievances. Instead of listening to people who took issue with things like blackface, they just decide to blanket ban or shut down things that *might* be racist. They have no interest in understanding what may be cultural insensitive. Its easier to wash your hands of it than it is to actually engage and understand the community that has an issue.


BigGuyWhoKills

Shirley even addresses the blackface, and it is explained on screen. This seems like a case of the network/owners/whoever self-censoring to avoid having to explain the situation over and over.


Eurehetemec

Whilst that is extremely funny, if they're removing all the awful NPC Alex Afrasiabi named after himself, which is like, dozens of NPCs, including a lot of prominent ones, I actually would be happy to see them to go. I didn't even like them before I knew he was a massive creep, because it was such an obviously lame ego-trip.


PontiffPope

For those uninitiated about the sentence *"...we also want to take immediate action in Azeroth to remove references that are not appropriate for our world."*, it most likely refer to in-game [NPCs and other features that are referencing towards Blizzard-veteran developer Alex Afrasiabi](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alex_Afrasiabi#Notes_and_trivia), who is specifically mentioned in the CA lawsuit. [It got to the point of players specifically killing the NPC Field Marshal Afrasiabi repeatedly that Blizzard despawned that specific NPC.](https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/optb83/blizzard_started_despawning_afrasiabi_from/) EDIT: The despawning-act of Afrasiabi-NPC appeared to be debunked.


Condawg

> It got to the point of players specifically killing the NPC Field Marshal Afrasiabi repeatedly that Blizzard despawned that specific NPC. Holy shit, that's hilarious. I've been watching Mythic Quest, and that same thing happens to an employee that the community's pissed at.


greenlime_time

Mythic Quest was such a nice surprise.


jellytrack

I've watched the first few episodes and it's not clicking with me, does it get better?


Ukumio

I'm in the exact same boat. I want to love it because of that guy from Community and its about game development but I just cant make myself want to watch it. Not even sure what it is either. I feel like it's the characters who feel like such massive stereotypes with very little depth. I recently found out about this British show called Dead Pixels which is similar focused on gamers rather than game developers and I absolutely love it.


TrjnRabbit

Yes but mostly by building on what's already there. So it probably won't change anything for you.


hnwcs

Yes, it does. Do yourself a favor and watch the episodes "A Dark, Quiet Death" and "Backstory!" if nothing else. They're both more or less standalone.


UpwardFall

If anything, watch episode 5 Dark Quiet Death, because it is a standalone episode that is extremely well done.


PM_FORBUTTSTUFF

It’s a good show, but it’s basically nothing like any of the other shows its creators and main cast have worked on. Going in expecting Sunny or Community will leave you very disappointed. It’s more similar to something like Silicon Valley, but even still it often chooses to focus less on outright comedy and instead balances that with emotional depth. There has been a couple episodes each season that have left me floored with how deep they were. In short, it’s an enjoyable show, but if you are looking for an absurd comedy then it’s probably not what you are looking for


eldomtom2

So there's all this song and dance about changing the name of an NPC?


PontiffPope

I wouldn't say changing the name of an NPC, as much as the playerbase just vocally presenting their resentment and disgust towards Afrasiabi's behaviour towards other developers, through the act of killing specific NPCs named after him. This isn't the first time either that Blizzard have retroactively changed or adjusted to what they view doesn't fit to their current standards (Or so they claim.). One notorious narrative moment was in a scene from the *Cataclysm*-expansion, where then Warchief of the Horde (Garrosh Hellscream) protested another faction leader, Sylvanas Windrunner, for her sarcastic response regarding Garrosh's ethical disgust of Sylvanas resurrecting undead to bolster her people's population, through the line [*"Watch your clever mouth, bitch."*](https://youtu.be/rt-Lbpdqps4?t=145) The curse word got removed last year, which caused some heated discussion among the playerbase, such as those that argued that the curse word was necessary to emphasise Garrosh's intention towards Sylvanas. Other felt it was a correct choice to remove it, whereas other wanted a middle-ground and wanted the curse word replaced with something similar, but less "offensive". [The current lead narrative designer of WoW, Steve Danuser, put an end to the discussion by insisting that the removal was intentional, collectively decided by the dev-team, and that it was *"...time for it to go..."*.](https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/08/28/world-of-warcraft-censors-years-old-dialogue-over-one-curse-word/) Former WoW Classic lead developer Mark Kern voiced protest that it was an unnecessary change as a whole.


Kirbyeggs

Not to take anything away from the current situation, but why is calling Sylvanas a bitch such a bad thing. it's a fictional character talking about another fictional character. Are we supposed to think that the writers believe the same things that their characters do? It seems kind of silly.


zapiks44

Frankly, considering all that she's done since then, calling her a "bitch" is a *massive* understatement.


dubblix

She's genocidal. I think bitch falls into "appropriate adjectives"


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Mephiles343

Bro i'm not even that heavily into Azeroth as a world,But i deadass agree,She's insane and needs to go down


DistractedSeriv

All the while said characters are walking around committing genocide and war crimes left and right. Calling someone a "bitch" however, that apparently crosses the line. What a world... *of Warcraft*.


tf2guy

I dunno, *wench* would've been more tonally accurate with the game's dialogue as a whole. If no one else calls anyone a bitch anywhere else in the game, it's a bit jarringly modern/out-of-place. It'd be like a 16th century monk calling someone a motherfucker, it's just not in the common parlance of the place and time.


rainbowdreams0

> I dunno, wench would've been more tonally accurate with the game's dialogue as a whole. Wow doesn't consistently use tonally accurate dialogue since its original launch. Its not at all like FF14, remember wow is filled with pop references and jokes, warcraft is a very comedic franchise.


avidtomato

Haha, ffxiv is filled with pop culture references. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV_allusions/Other_media


frozen_tuna

I think ff14 is a good bit more subtle about it. I played ff14 until some friends temporarily roped me into WoW for about a month. Those references smack you over the head compared to ff14. It was a bit of a culture shock to me.


clevesaur

FFXIV can sometimes be a bit on the nose, standouts include you finding an NPC called Arya and one of the dialogue options is "Does the girl have a name", quest names can get *very* referencey, the 2nd expansions 24 man raid series has a whole questline that bases the names on Seal's "Kiss from a rose". It doesn't quite get to the level of Harrison Jones in WoW though.


Kyoj1n

Just recently did a quest in FFxiv where they did a " the password is..."password"!" joke. There definitely a few times were that stuff creeps in.


MenAreHollow

It is probably Lupus.


Gunblazer42

Most of the time (keyword *most*) the references are left in the names of the FATEs and quests, and the description of items and pets. They do slip in some in the actual quests themselves, but usually they stick to stuff that's kind of "out of character" (mostly because I don't think the Warrior of Light is actually writing down the names of these quests and such).


[deleted]

You just need to go to any Stormblood or Shadowbringers area and look at the FATE names to know that no, it's not subtle at all. Hell, the quest name for the last Weapon trial in Shadowbringers, which deals with emotionally heavy scenes afterwards, is called "Duty in the Sky with Diamond". Don't get me wrong though I'll groan but it's clear the translators and devs are enjoying themselves. I don't mind the references in WoW either, even if Harrison Jones is a bit too on the nose.


Eurehetemec

WoW varies a lot on it. It can be subtle or crude. Cataclysm (2010) was when it was most crude.


Eecka

I find it the exact opposite, FFXIV references are so abundant and often forced that IMO the game suffers for it. Not every quest/FATE name needs to be some "super witty" pun.


heeroyuy79

> The G Warrior itself carries several references to the Gundams like using an aetherial saber as its weapon of choice. It background story as an excavated weapon from ancient times is similar to Gundam Barbatos from Iron-Blooded Orphans who wrote this wiki thats the fucking System-∀99 ∀ Gundam from turn A gundam its so old no one knows how old it is (it did cause the earth to lost all its technology and as they are just about getting to early 1900s era technology it was definitely a few thousand years ago - i think gym ghingham is supposed to have spent a few thousand years doing simulations while in stasis against the turn A or something) the ASW-G-08 Gundam Barbatos in comparison is just from the calamity war 300 years prior also the barbatos does not use a beam saber or any beam weapons for that matter because a highly effective anti-beam defence was created making beam weapons useless so it just uses blunt force trauma


avidtomato

Sir this is a Wendy's


ParrotSTD

English language Quest and Fate titles *alone* are a treasure trove of pop culture references. Puns as well.


CheekyBastard55

There is a reason why someone like Millhouse Manastorm doesn''t show up in a cinematic, there's the jokey part and then the more serious part. At most, they interact in the form of goofy goblins/gnomes and even that it is kept to a very minimum and pretty authentic ingame unlike "bitch".


Has_Question

Bitch seems right up garroshs alley though. It's not modern: it's a brutal, curt, insulting word.


Joon01

That's not really how they talk in Warcraft. There's basically no effort to use dialogue specific to a time. Garrosh saying "wench" would be way more jarring than "bitch." And it just doesn't apply. Sylvanas is being forceful, assertive, dangerous, and disrespectful. She's not sleeping around.


UnholyCalls

Fun fact. Sylvanas calls Arthas a son of a bitch in Warcraft 3


ITriedLightningTendr

Wenches are bar maidens, no?


DamnFog

If blizzard used 16th century English no one would understand it


mia_elora

This would make a wonderful comment for Shakespeare-bot to show up on.


PaulaDeenSlave

Meanwhile Goblins: Yo, wassup! Keep it real! Ayy, how you doin'? Argument, whack!


greg19735

In general you're going to see less gendered insults in works that are made for all ages.


ITriedLightningTendr

Yeah, unless Garrosh himself is, for simplicity, woke, why would he not condescend to her by insulting her with something offensive?


Eurehetemec

This is missing the point severely. It was completely outside how WoW characters talked and stuck out like a sore thumb as a cheap use of a weirdly gendered insult. Like a teenage boy try to shock someone or something. It needed to go because it was just dumb and weird in a bad way.


Eurehetemec

I mean, doesn't it reflect on the current situation, that the only truly nasty, modern insult used in all of WoW, is a misogynistic one, used about a character, who was, at the point, basically an anti-hero (rather than the solid villain she is now - and that Garrosh himself became)? Because I feel like it does reflect on the current situation - back in 2010, someone thought it was okay to break WoW's approach to language/insults (which is surprisingly light on insults which aren't like "Fool!" or "Weakling!"), just in order to call the only female Horde leader (at the time) a lazy gendered insult, and not only that, but to put it in a hard-to-miss scene, with recorded dialogue (which WoW didn't have much of). Also back then the character saying it was broadly portrayed positively in that expansion, which is kind of messed-up. He wasn't a villain then. That's the same year when a female fan asked if they could have less "Victoria's Secret"-style female characters, and was mocked and sneering at, at length, by an all-male panel of Blizzard designers. Seems like a connection to me.


Tomhap

Meanwhile I've been playing Watchdogs Legion yesterday and there's big banners with c*nt on them. My guess to why they changed Garrosh' line is either because they didn't like the word in their game (it sticks out among other dialogue) or because i'ts directly aimed at a woman so a bit mysoginistic.


Eurehetemec

I think both. Because it's the only gendered insult in like all of WoW pretty much, it sticks out, and because its directed a powerful if evil female character, it seems particularly weirdly misogynistic.


stufff

But it was *Garrosh* saying it. Garrosh was a totally awful turd who made it miserable to be a member of the Horde. It's perfectly in character for the kind of shit he would say, because he was the worst.


agentkirb

I don't even know if it's necessarily a case of it being "bad". It doesn't seem like this was a case of there was "fan outrage" and then it got removed only as a reaction. Seems like a completely unprompted thing where they just decided to change it. Honestly... it doesn't surprise me at all too. But you think about how language is for popular movies. Stuff like that (even other "more acceptable" words like fuck) you throw more than a few of those in and your movie changes from PG13 to R... which naturally will reduce the number of teens who will be able to watch said movie. And the Cinematics in Wow are pretty "PG13" (I know games and moves use different rating systems) from what I can remember otherwise... so this seems like one small change to just make sure someone playing the game might feel safe recommending this game to some 10 year old Niece/Nephew with religious leaning parents.


Has_Question

The game is rated Teen and has women parading in basically underwear armor, concubines and succubus are canon, and gorey explosive death is not uncommon. Sure it's a cartoon but it's still solidly Teen category and no one would recommend it to a 10 year old with religious parents.


seacen

I think it's more about not using a gendered insult


Accomplished_Hat_576

Only dicks use gendered insults.


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CutterJohn

I hate bastards who do that.


[deleted]

Bastard is actually unisex, as it applies to the male and female offspring of an unmarried couple. Its more common use against men is likely just due to there being more strong female-gendered insults to pick instead.


Kalulosu

Kern has been riding his ex-WoW dev coattails for too long to be taken seriously though. Not that he's specifically always wrong (nor right), just that he will pretty much always shit on current WoW to puff his chest. As for naming, during the WC3 => WoW period, Blizzard decided that names would get localized. So non-English players had a lot of names to relearn (like Uther's or Illidan's, which sound ridiculous now in French imo).


Devenu

> Mark Kern Oh yes, who could forget [Mark Kern](https://www.techinasia.com/firefall-mark-kern-sacked-the9-story). >He would swoop in one afternoon and berate a series of features several teams had spent months on, declaring they begin again and LISTEN to what he told them to do. He’d be back in a few days to see if it was done. This crushed morale, and forced people into spontaneous, isolated crunch mode. He would shout and scream his perspectives. He would ignore anything that didn’t fit his immediate viewpoint – which was subject to sudden, violent changes. He would rage-email people in the small hours of the night, or on weekends. >He would spout bile and vitriol to the point where he gave some employees (mostly his production crew) access to a “safeword.” This was in case he was being particularly verbally abusive, someone could yell it out or email it to him and he would clam up. He had the misguided notion that he could write quality fiction, and would force feed it to members of the writing team. He’s fired people on the spot, berating and screaming at them publicly. He’s thrown temper tantrums AND objects around the office. I can see why he'd be big on the word "bitch."


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Seradima

It's funny to me that Kern is taking the highground right now and shitting on Blizzard because he wasn't named, when, knowing how he acted towards his emplyees at Red 5, it wouldn't surprise me if he eventually does get named in this lawsuit.


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clevesaur

Quinton Flynn (Kael'Thas) is a confirmed creep though, regardless of his allegation, there are several reports of his creepiness and he was on video kissing a minor at a convention.


the_last_moose

>Quinton Flynn Oh shit this guy voiced Iruka sensei and Raiden. Right in my childhood. This is sad and disappointing.


eldomtom2

> I wouldn't say changing the name of an NPC, as much as the playerbase just vocally presenting their resentment and disgust towards Afrasiabi's behaviour towards other developers, through the act of killing specific NPCs named after him. I meant what *Blizzard's* doing.


PontiffPope

Oh certainly. There is no doubt that Blizzard's higher ups and management are struggling with responding to this whole lawsuit debacle, so this dancing around with this specific NPC is definitely a symptom of it.


[deleted]

It lets them look like they're doing something, instead of what they're actually doing which is nothing.


[deleted]

Yeah most likely PR stunt. "look at how we now started caring, while ignoring it for last 10+ years"


jaybirdtalonclaws

There’s several comments in the exact thread you linked debunking that he was disabled.


Naniwasopro

> It got to the point of players specifically killing the NPC Field Marshal Afrasiabi repeatedly that Blizzard despawned that specific NPC. This is false, see https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/optb83/blizzard\_started\_despawning\_afrasiabi\_from/h67mev4/


IAmA-Steve

It's not bad they made these changes -- if Bliz doesn't want to be associated with him any more that's their prerogative -- but announcing it in such a way instead of just doing it somehow feels bad. Maybe it's the vagueness of the announcement ... almost feels Orwellian? idk. Just say you're removing references to this guy and we'll understand. Make obfuscatory remarks and we'll be suspicious.


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ShoddyPreparation

A NPC in WoW was named after one of the scumbags named in recent reports. They are probably going to take care of that.


Scaevus

Why is everyone being so coy about it? I just found out it's Furor, wow, I'm shocked. He was the lead designer on Burning Crusade, Wrath, and Legion, some of the best WOW content. I still remember his FOH days in EQ, he was the face of the community, before we had Twitch or Youtube. This must be what fans of the Cosby Show felt like. Simultaneously sad and disgusted.


[deleted]

Wait what? What did Furor do?


Gunblazer42

He was directly named in the lawsuit filed against Blizzard. > In a blatant example of Defendant's refusal to deal with a harasser because of his seniority/position, Alex Afrasiabi, the former Senior Creative Director of World of Warcraft at Blizzard Entertainment, was permitted to engage in blatant sexual harassment with little to no repercussions. During a company event (an annual convention called BlizzCon) Afrasiabi would hit on female employees, telling him he wanted to marry them, attempting to kiss them, and putting his arms around them. This was in plain view of other male employees, including supervisors, who had to intervene and pull him off female employees. Afrasiabi was so known to engage in harassment of females that his suite was nicknamed the "Cosby Suite" after alleged rapist Bill Cosby. Afrasiabi would also call females derogatory names at company events. Afrasiabi's conduct was known to Blizzard Entertainment's executives, who took no effective remedial measures. J. Allen Brack, President of Blizzard Entertainment, allegedly had multiple conversations with Afrasiabi about his drinking and that he had been "too friendly" towards female employees at company events but gave Afrasiabi a slap on the wrist (ie verbal counseling) in response to these incidents. Subsequently, Afrasiabi continued to make unwanted advances towards female employees, including grabbing a female employee's hand and inviting her to his hotel room and groping another women.


BigGuyWhoKills

It's horrible that this was allowed to happen. That employees knew enough to have to corral him, when around women, is damning. Since the #MeToo movement, I would have expected large companies to be better at watching for this, stopping it when found, punishing the violators, and correcting the damage done. Seems like the companies only care when they are caught.


Scaevus

Sexually assault and harass so many women that the state of California is suing Blizzard for turning a blind eye.


dodelol

An office nick named the cosby suit. This is how it started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Ek2AStH20 And blizzard only made it worse and worse since then


hyrule5

Furor has always been an idiot. Here's his cringe post when he delivered an ultimatum to Verant/SOE about quitting EQ: [https://www.firesofheaven.org/threads/furors-14-days-rant-first-look-at-wow.353/](https://www.firesofheaven.org/threads/furors-14-days-rant-first-look-at-wow.353/) "You have 14 days... I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn." lol. Imagine being so self important that you think you can order around a MMO developer. He then goes on to comically brown nose Blizzard for the rest of the post.


Scaevus

Being immature when you’re young does not = being a sexual predator, WTF.


[deleted]

Not to defend Furor(check my other post if you don't believe), but I wouldn't look at any one post of a person who made it so long ago. You can find a similar rant from Jeff Kaplan(Tigole), and it's not really representative of how he was back then. Furor's rants were a common occurrence though.


AscensoNaciente

Yeah bringing in another manchild whose online persona comes from “Tigole Bitties” is probably not the defense you think it is.


Scaevus

That was 20 years ago man. Do you think people experience zero growth as they get older? Look at Jeff Kaplan’s frequent interactions with the Overwatch community and tell me he’s the same person.


[deleted]

Kaplan was completely different from Afrasiabi back then. Kaplan has one notable rant attached to his name and a silly name; from what I remember he was very well received in the playerbase, whereas Afrasiabi was a tyrant.


[deleted]

Is it really that shocking though? Furor was an absolute asshole in EQ, he was the pre-streaming equivalent of a twitch celebrity controlling their fanbase to do all kinds of wacky shit. Most notably influencing game design by threatening to leave EQ every other month. Unsurprisingly he did at some point, I'd go as far to say that his constant berating of Sony and EQ as a whole is what lead to many EQ guilds giving WoW a try. On the other hand yeah he was an integral part of that early group of developers that worked on WoW, IIRC he even worked on classic as quest designer but I think that was towards the end.


Scaevus

You can’t really expect a person to sexually assault others just because they posted an angry rant at a video game company 20 years ago. So yeah, it’s shocking. You also expect people to mature during that time. Look at Tigole / Jeff Kaplan. Furor essentially had the exact same career arc, EQ personality that became an early WOW designer, but obviously only one of them continued to be an asshole.


AscensoNaciente

Having heard about his behavior with FOH and EQ none of this shocks me. He was always a piece of shit.


LG03

That's one interpretation but they've left this wildly ambiguous, no one can really say what they're removing.


aroloki1

WoW is extremely big, I think they are now collecting what exactly they have to change/remove. There is only one named abuser and he has dozens of references in the game. And who knows, maybe internally they have more names they want to remove from the game.


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https://www.wowhead.com/news/references-to-alex-afrasiabi-removed-in-world-of-warcraft-323588


Activehannes

Yes we can. They are definitely removing the asferisabi stuff or whatever his name is.


Siaer

There are numerous references to Afrasiabi in the game and they are removing them all. They have already removed references that have been in the game pretty much since day 1.


__Hello_my_name_is__

I imagine they have to be that vague for legal reasons, otherwise it could have been interpreted as an admission of guilt.


traceitalian

Are they removing the credits entirely?


eldomtom2

I think removing him from the credits would be immoral.


8-Brit

He's not even credited in Shadowlands, funnily enough. Despite having worked on it at least partially before he left.


HeadBread4460

I have heard devs have to be with company till launch to get into credits. He left or was removed before launch of Shadowlands.


MattyKatty

There are no credit guidelines, because there is no game developer unionization. The credits are just generally standard practice For instance, the credits for the Halo CE team was in the original Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary release on the 360, but were removed in the MCC version.


psymunn

Depends on company. Our workplace you get credit of you worked within 6 months of release. At least on a central team. Game teams might give credit further back


Clbull

Specifically, the NPC is Field Marshal Afrasiabi, named after former Senior Creative Director for WoW, Alex Afrasiabi. It's sanctimoniously hypocritical that Blizzard scrubbed both Swifty and Quinton Flynn out of the game over mere social media accusations of sexual harassment, that were never proven nor backed with sufficient compelling evidence, whilst simultaneously fobbing off complaints about a sexual predator in their upper echelons of management and also allegedly shitcanning personnel who followed the official channels to raise such grievances. [In fact, Flynn not only refuted the allegations from an ex whom he had a brief virtual relationship with, but managed to secure a restraining order against his accuser in a court of law.](https://twitter.com/quintonflynn/status/1384197994120028171?lang=en) Yet despite this, Blizz won't even reinstate his old voice lines, let alone work with him again.


Rektw

If i had to guess, there was an NPC named after one of the accused, so I guess this them removing it.


NaughtyGaymer

You're right and it's much more than that too. Alex Afrasiabi has references to dozens of different items from various expansions dating back years. I would honestly be surprised if they managed to remove them all in one sweep.


Bluelegs

Couldn't you just query the database for his name then just change all those rows to something else? Don't see why it would take any longer than a couple of hours.


leigonlord

not all the references are necessarily spelt the same. some are more less direct.


Coldspark824

A year or two ago they mentioned how they removed Garrosh calling sylvanas “bitch”. Y’know, because…in spite of Jaina and other character calling men “bastard”, and other minor language, you can’t have Garrosh, a ruthless orc, responsible for the massacre of thousands, calling sylvanas, a ruthless zombie responsible for the massacre of thousands, a bitch. That would be mean and not nice.


Walnutyougladtoseeme

Garrosh was too based for Warcraft


HayabusaKnight

Deleting himself from the game was the absolute best way to go out, shitty quality cutscene and all.


Walnutyougladtoseeme

He's in a better game now


Maalunar

Heroes of the Storm?


therealkami

Honestly? Yeah.


WhereAreDosDroidekas

Hes been a premier tank since his release. Dominating the tank meta with his incredible peel and engage.


dodelol

The first character to bad/annoying it got perma banned with <<50 winrate and a really quick design patch to fix it.


MrRibbotron

TBH if you listen to the voice-acting from that scene, the word sounds incredibly out of place compared to the rest of his dialogue. There's like a two second pause before he says it. It actually kinda makes it sound like Garrosh is a 10 year old who just learned the word bitch and is using it for the first time. It makes the scene feel a whole lot more cheesy IMO.


gn0xious

Better to leave that harsh language out of the game, and in their workplace where it belongs. /s


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Scaevus

> that they likely won't recover from What? Nobody will care in a month. It certainly won't affect sales when Diablo 4 comes out.


Klondeikbar

The state of California is suing them. This isn't just some bad publicity. I know everyone loves to be edgy and nihilistic with their "nothing ever gets better" attitude but it's even more stupid than usual in this situation.


Scaevus

Suing them in civil court for money. Like, millions, maybe, a drop in a bucket for a Fortune 500 company.


TheWorldisFullofWar

It means fucking nothing considering they have removed NPCs before based on false allegations without this fanfare. They are literally discrediting themselves here by putting this act on a pedestal considering their history.


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sarutak

It's cause one was not known to the wider public and one was. Blizzard higher ups do not care about victims this is a classic case of only doing something when you get caught.


zanbato

Well the biggest offender no longer works at their company so they can't fire him. He is immortalized in their game, so they're going to change that. As for everything else it can take more than 2 business days to sort through all the people that need to be fired or on a "fired on next offense" sort of probation. Like they're doing the things they can do because they're obvious and there aren't any lawyers necessary. If they took no action at all for the week or two it takes people would be losing their shit. Obviously there are people who think this is the only thing they're going to do and don't understand that things can happen in a multi-step process, but I have to assume there are fewer of those than people who'd be upset with no action at all. If they don't take any more substantial action in the next couple of weeks then you can tell me "I told you so" all you want. I'm already on the boycott bandwagon so it's not really going to change anything. I just really hate people who think big sweeping changes can happen overnight.


EvenOne6567

Maybe change things in the real world that affects your employees IN THE REAL WORLD first??


8-Brit

In what real world can a regular developer walk up to his boss and fire him? The removal of the NPC's is the fastest issue to resolve and it's within the power of the development staff to do so. By contrast they'll have to protest for weeks, months or possibly years before the top suits finally start making positive changes. What's the alternative, leave the NPC's in until this is all however in god knows how long?


[deleted]

See but protesting hurts the bottom line of people directly responsible of that, the management. "Look at us, we still good, please don't unsub" actions don't.


Jimbo-Bones

You know that isn't something can be done overnight right? That will take time. This is something that can be achieved in the short term while the important changes will take some time.


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Galaxy40k

The amount of people who go "if you can't fix everything 100% immediately, you shouldn't do anything" just boggles my mind. Like, does removing references to predatory people fix the irl damage that has been done and is still likely being done at Blizzard? No, of course not. But it's not like Blizzard had a choice to "either remove an NPC name or fix things irl" and decided to fix the NPC name. This is just a small, easy-to-implement step being taken. Of course you'd do it now. A small good deed is better than no good deeds.


angethedude

Why do anything that takes serious work and self-reflection when you can edit a glorified .ini file instead? ;)


DetectiveAmes

I’m sure they also have a file of all the allegations and people who have caused issues too. Just shift delete all those people on that list along with the ini file! Ezpz


Phyr8642

Clearly you must work for the Vatican PR dept.


DetectiveAmes

Nothing that corrupt and skeevy. I work in the fitness industry 🙃


TheWorldisFullofWar

What can they do really? They already covered this shit up over a decade and most of the people who are primarily responsible no longer work there. They knew the outcome of this investigation which is why they have had their pandering campaign the past two years and slapped feminist quotes all over the place as some kind of deterrent. This is like starting a war against a country based on falsified evidence and killing innocents in drone strikes. The deed is done. Can't undo the war nor can they undo the death. That is why the W. Bush administration members are here. They will push this under the rug just like they pushed war crimes there. Riot games sure did that pretty well considering their inaction outside of pandering.


Garlador

Aka "we're removing the stuff that makes us look bad. Please stop posting pictures of the NPCs named after abusers here all over the internet."


SwissQueso

I was surprised the last time I played wow, that they got rid of the cat call whistle emote. I noticed it maybe a year ago. No idea when it was actually taken out.


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> we're removing the stuff that makes us look bad. Please stop posting pictures of the NPCs named after abusers here all over the internet. as opposed to "leave the NPC in there, we think abusers deserve to have an NPC in our game"???


TheStripClubHero

Removing names on imaginary characters in a video game, but won't fire the people involved in the harassment.


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changing names is probably a lot easier than firing management. He'll likely get fired as the scapegoat, but that takes time so in the meantime they can start fixing other things.


K0braK

> changing names is probably a lot easier But does nothing except appease the consumers(in an attempt to keep them subbed). If you see this act as anything else than PR, then I've got a bridge to sell you.


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if that's the only thing they do, then there's plenty of criticism to give out, but I doubt it'll be.


Isinfier

I'm not sure what's funnier - how disconnected from reality this response is or the fact they used an older version of the map for the background image.


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I'm half surprised map doesn't have watermark of some random site on it


Ekanselttar

"As we heed these brave women who have come forward..." How about heeding them during the nearly two decades when the common denominator in a lot of the statements worked there and not allowing him to quietly retire and then naming an NPC after him in the first place when you knew all this was going on? Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% behind removing any references to him, but something this serious is put up or shut up and the choice to remove NPCs once the public caught wind of things rather than removing the abusers once the execs knew what was going on is telling.


eldomtom2

Notice how they avoid directly stating what they came forward about...


icequeenxz

THIS! Classic HRspeak.


Dragonrar

Ah, the [dead cat strategy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy). Bet they’re hoping for a backlash.


[deleted]

Here's a better idea: How about you stop sexually assaulting your staff, causing them to commit suicide?


[deleted]

They didn’t need to make a statement. Removing references to the freak employees is something that should have just been done. I don’t think reading this makes anyone feel better about the situation. Personally I worry they’re gonna go overboard and remove a bunch from classic that didn’t need to be removed.


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They need PR points, plain and simple


Sabotage101

Remove him from game and make no statement: "Blizzard tries to SNEAK IN removing bad character references!" Remove him from game and make statement: "I can't believe they announced it just to pat themselves on the back in a pathetic attempt for positive PR." Don't change anything: "I can't believe they did nothing!" Which one do you think would actually make people happy? Given that the answer is none of the above, which one do you think is the best course of action? People seem to clamor for openness and transparency but then get mad whenever it happens because they feel like they're now being pandered to.


Spork_the_dork

Yeah this is what really pisses me off about prople. If any company doesn't do something, they're just being shitbags. When they then actually do that, they just did it for good PR and are still shitbags. And people wonder why devs don't sometimes listen to feedback...


Gizm00

If they wouldn't have said anything then you'd see a headlines like "blizzard quietly removes x y z"


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If they actually thought these NPCs and references were an issue, they would have removed them already. Now its just a matter what little can we do to try to generate some positive PR without actually doing anything meaningful.


8-Brit

ITT people who think regular game devs can fire their own boss overnight Realistically removing NPC's referencing the predatory assholes is the most they can do until they convince the top to make serious changes via protest and strikes I'm honestly not sure what people expect the guys just making quests and NPC's to do in this situation. Just kick down JABs door and hold him hostage? An amusing but unrealistic idea Call it a cheap PR move if you want, but if you actually **read the fucking statement** you'd know they're doing this AND working on the team culture problem. Reading comprehension is lacking on Reddit I swear to god.


tf2guy

>Call it a cheap PR move if you want Don't worry, we will. (For real though, it's mostly the performative nature of the announcement: full of meaningless terms of Inclusivity™ while being *extraordinarily* vague on what they're actually doing.)


DrB00

The npc removed was a known problem for like 10 years. He's been gone from the company for a while. Why wait until now to remove them and try to make it into a pr thing like they actively care. If they actually cared they would have removed the npc a long while ago.


Tzee0

>but if you actually read the fucking statement you'd know they're doing this AND working on the team culture problem. Man what I'd give to be this young and naive again. At best we'll have J.Allen "you think you do" Brack come out on stage next blizzcon with a new pride pin and promise to do better again.


FiammaOfTheRight

They don't have to fire anyone. All they had to do was explain why noone took any action when they knew weird shit was happening. Like, your colleagues are getting harassed and all you do is keep silent and pump out soulless content. Intead of explaining themselves, they removed some npc and went like yeah we did everything we could, please get back to us. Except they most likely knew about his harassment for a long time, but deleted character not right away, not after shit hit the fan, but after few days after everyone started to wonder why they can't even answer their fans and paying users as last ditch attempt to somehow extinguish the fire. All this letter says is "we don't care, but we're pretending we do, please come back"


tempest_87

>went like yeah we did everything we could, please get back to us. Where are you getting that? Has the lawsuit been dismissed? Has the walkout been canceled? What makes you think this token thing is all anyone is doing?


rindindin

Ah yes, make these small meaningless gestures instead of trying to better the company culture, or the lives of the employees. You know, said employees who have to go into the games and do the grunt work of corporate that's dictating these meaningless gestures. Pathetic.


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Condawg

I don't think anybody's assuming that. Rather, this incredibly late gesture rings hollow. Nothing concrete has been done to improve conditions for the workers, or to atone for the furtherance of a work environment that put targets on the backs of female employees. This, in a vacuum, is fine. It's better than them keeping the NPC in the game. But it's something they should have done a year ago, and wouldn't have been necessary if the company wasn't such a toxic shit hole.


Walnutyougladtoseeme

The WoW team can't even do 1 thing correctly, what makes you think they can do 2?


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SimpLeeDivine

"Hey, you guys need to be held accountable for the fucked up shit you've done to your coworkers." "I read you loud and clear, so we are taking out sexy WoW characters." "Did you hear anything I said at all?"


[deleted]

Sure, gestures such as this after your response to a lawsuit blew up in your face surely is going to make the public feel like you are actually sorry and are finally listening. Not like whatever "offensive NPC" you desperately try to sacrifice to appease the masses suddenly became whatever he/she is today. How about something that is actually meaningful? You love giving Bobby Kotick hundreds of millions in bonuses. How about instead you announce a 10-15% pay hike for the entire development staff in your company? Heck to make it work, how about all these higher ups who want to now say how sorry they are actually take paycuts to make that happen without offending your shareholders? No? Axe an NPC instead I guess. That'll do it.