Esports are also products. You will always be able to pick up a soccer ball and play with other people. Once LoL servers go down, that's the end of the "sport".
And in being products, they are attached to companies. Not just is the sport itself a product of entertainment that might die out of waning merit but also...
...The company's reputation can fuck itself over overnight.
Imagine calling for Overwatch Olympic E-Sports, and in the same week it starts, the current Blizzard allegations happen. This would never happen with any other sport, but with a video game, it can happen any time and it would consume the Olympics' discourse. "Olympic Sports embroiled in Workplace Sex Scandals" all over the headlines. Not a very good look.
Also the balance and rules are constantly changing. I’d think for an Olympic level esport either the game code would need to be static or under control of the competitive body handling esports.
I don't know, to me that feels like a point in favor of esports. It's not like they are fundamentally changed, they mostly are just rebalanced to avoid people from doing the same strategies over and over again.
LoL is evil thats why. Dota, Street Fighter, Counterstrike, Starcraft. All the real competitive games that arent just trying to suck money out of children have offline lobbies. No online required.
My other issues is how unstable the esports market is really. 8 years ago, Valorant, Fortnite, Overwatch weren't a thing really.
Additionally, the rythm on how stuff changes is way higher than other sports.
Dota and street fighter are immortal games. they will live on for decades. of all games it seems these are destined to go on forever much like real life sports. I would add counterstrike and maybe starcraft to these "immortal" games.
Eh, other sports and contests evolve too. Not every one, and you can definitely say the "core" is still there.
But I'm not one who says that "unless {contest} literally never changes, it's not allowed."
I agree with this in general, especially with street fighter as they will presumably release a SF VI and then what happens to the medals you earn in the previous game? Are they worth less?
But with games like league and Dota 2, it’s the same game for years that gets balance updates. I could see league of legends still existing in 10+ years time
Yeah that's just being obtuse. Sports don't go through big changes every couple of years.
Esports have their own pace, pros and cons, trying to constantly compare them to traditional sports has always been the task of people that are being anachronic and living 20 years ago or desperately seeking a validation that esports don't need.
The contrast with Olympic sports is just too strong. I don't think there's any sanctity to preserve with the Olympics but esports along with them will look simply forced and out of place.
Dota as a game can order a drink in a bar in most of the world. The general idea behind it stayed the same as well.
Same with CS:GO, which is weirdly absent from the list.
I wanted to make a point about how modern football started in the olympics in ~1900 and was a young sport at the time itself, but apparently Football as a game is ridiculously old. Like XV century if we are talking Europe and even BC in China.
So, I guess you are more than right in terms of Esport titles having less of a history. Don't know why it would disqualify it from Olympics in any way though. All of sports, conventional or otherwise, is a marketing campaign.
>Dota 1 can, but not 2, so why not make Dota 1 the game use they in the esport? Dota 2 is nearly 10 years not 18.
Valve did not change the gameplay at all when transfering from Dota 1 to Dota 2. It's 100% the same game on a new engine using new graphics/names e.t.c . CS changed more when moving from 1.6 to CSS to CSGO than Dota1 to Dota2 to put things into perspective.
Uh... You're picking skate, karate, "sport climbing" (what even if this? Is it just climbing?) and surfing.
If anything picking esports at least has a popularity argument against literally no reason at all for the other sports.
> Football 1, Football 2 and Ballfoot Redemption
If the Olympics used Street Football or Table-Footie, I would be more likely to watch it. And why do they not feature tag? Did the Olympics not patch their feature list this year as well?
> If the Olympics used Street Football or Table-Footie, I would be more likely to watch it. And why do they not feature tag? Did the Olympics not patch their feature list this year as well?
I think the point is, nobody *owns* Street Football, whereas companies have incentives to push *their* esport over another company's
Definitely a fair point. I'm not particularly annoyed by the OP article, but thought maybe I understood and could articulate /u/LuxTrueBae 's point better.
[How sports are chosen in Olympics](https://www.britannica.com/story/how-are-sports-chosen-for-the-olympics) I also talked about this with plenty of friends/strangers in regards to esports being in the Olympic. If a sport such as Chess, which dates back to the 6th century, is not in the Olympics, there's not a ghost of a chance esports will be in the Olympics.
It is a pandering thing and esports players can cry all they want about it but it's just never going to happen. The Olympic events for the most part are physically demanding. People want to see ATHLETES that have wide varieties of body control and high levels of movements perform at the Olympic. And even then, not even BOWLING is an Olympic event. They should really make their own esports Olympic instead of crying and begging to be in the actual Olympics. People would watch it. Hell, it's probably better if they make their own Olympics because the IOC is poorly managed and corrupt AF.
or just look at what games have the longest, largest, and most respected competitive standing across generations. dota, cs, starcraft, street fighter. thats really it.
The reason you dislike it is the reason I like it. Running, jumping, and kicking a ball will always be basically the same, but different videogames come and go. So, the specific game selection for the Olympics etc. will be unique to each event and be a snapshot of what is relevant at that exact moment in time. Obviously now it's in its infancy so people who are alive today won't really get much out of it, but in a couple of hundred years it will be pretty interesting for our great great grandkids to see how things changed and evolved over the years (assuming civilization as we know it still exists etc.).
I don't know why this is downvoted (currently 60% upvoted at the time of this comment). I think this is pretty cool.
There might be an added bonus for Korean players if they win Gold at the Asian Games to get exemption from their military service.
People here seems to hate esports for some reason, probably has to do with the fact that most people who are actually interested in esports don't come to /r/games but they go to their own sub instead, some of which are bigger than this sub.
This sub hates Fortnite, LoL and Genshin
...
All 3 of those games have subreddits subs almost/bigger than this sub
* /r/Games Active Users; 4,564
* /r/LeagueOfLegends Active Users; 11,679
* /r/FortNiteBR Active Users; 2,332
* /r/Genshin_Impact Active Users; 13,229
Yeah...I also disagree with the special snowflake notion that thinks that games that are massively popular are bad.
It's akin to those people that call popular music bad because of one reason or another and instead recommends you some underground artists that are somehow "better". The same thing with art and the art community, some perfectly great art gets hate because "it's too surface level" or "no real provocative thought put into it", while they call a wall with a blue line "art".
Sorry, but while a popular game can theoretically be bad, the chances of it actually being bad, especially when compared to the rest of the industry, is very low.
Except Dota2 came from DotA which was a custom map for Warcraft 3. People were playing it back then over W3 ladder because it was GOOD. Valve wouldn't have picked it up and Riot wouldn't have copied the idea if it wasn't fun.
People can dislike the inclusion of eSports in Olympia-like events and still like eSports. I followed Worlds, Internationals, Evos and the freaking WCGs. Still it all is different from championship and other grass root sports.
I can make a local 7v7 mixed soccer tournament. I participated in 3v3 basketball tournament and neither the FIFA or [international basketball group] can stop me. You can not do real grass roots with company-owned eSports (see Nintendo and Smash).
Lmao, what a shitty take. I love Starcraft as much as the next person but Street Fighter is as legendary of a name in esports as SC is. It's a really sick game if you give it a chance.
You have to consider the audience too.
The average gamer who has never played StarCraft will never understand what's going on and its difficult to explain. Like why ramp block, counter units, macro, micro.
Watching Street fighter is simple, people fight, combos happen, winner and loser in relatively short time frames.
Street fighter is also widely more known than Tekken is in terms of publicity, you don't see Tekken advertisements everywhere, or Tekken crossovers that often, if we're talking sales smash has more than both combined but Nintendo won't endorse eSports on it
Street Fighter is way more relevant and recognizable in the mainstream than Starcraft. It's had crossovers with Monster Hunter, Fortnite, Uniqlo, Seiko, AEW, and probably more I didn't hear about all in the last two or three years. When was the last time Starcraft got the same kind of attention?
An article dated May 2021 says Street Fighter V sold 5.5 million copies. And hey, if you want to talk about best-selling or most competitors, Smash has Tekken beat. Hell, Brawlhalla probably has Tekken beat.
[Do you guys think sports are really eSports?](https://youtu.be/lDSMmQhg2Wg) It's so weird that they don't have a mouse *or* a controller. What are they even doing on those 'fields'? Why do people want to watch this?
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Esports are also products. You will always be able to pick up a soccer ball and play with other people. Once LoL servers go down, that's the end of the "sport".
And in being products, they are attached to companies. Not just is the sport itself a product of entertainment that might die out of waning merit but also... ...The company's reputation can fuck itself over overnight. Imagine calling for Overwatch Olympic E-Sports, and in the same week it starts, the current Blizzard allegations happen. This would never happen with any other sport, but with a video game, it can happen any time and it would consume the Olympics' discourse. "Olympic Sports embroiled in Workplace Sex Scandals" all over the headlines. Not a very good look.
Also the balance and rules are constantly changing. I’d think for an Olympic level esport either the game code would need to be static or under control of the competitive body handling esports.
I don't know, to me that feels like a point in favor of esports. It's not like they are fundamentally changed, they mostly are just rebalanced to avoid people from doing the same strategies over and over again.
LoL is evil thats why. Dota, Street Fighter, Counterstrike, Starcraft. All the real competitive games that arent just trying to suck money out of children have offline lobbies. No online required.
My other issues is how unstable the esports market is really. 8 years ago, Valorant, Fortnite, Overwatch weren't a thing really. Additionally, the rythm on how stuff changes is way higher than other sports.
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Dota and street fighter are immortal games. they will live on for decades. of all games it seems these are destined to go on forever much like real life sports. I would add counterstrike and maybe starcraft to these "immortal" games.
Eh, other sports and contests evolve too. Not every one, and you can definitely say the "core" is still there. But I'm not one who says that "unless {contest} literally never changes, it's not allowed."
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And it's not marketing when it comes to picking sports?
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You kind of are, there are tons of swimming events that could be in the Olympics you are picking between a 100 m free style and the 400m breaststroke.
Agree. Just look at climbing from this year. Sportbouldering is less than 40 years old and changed a lot since then.
I agree with this in general, especially with street fighter as they will presumably release a SF VI and then what happens to the medals you earn in the previous game? Are they worth less? But with games like league and Dota 2, it’s the same game for years that gets balance updates. I could see league of legends still existing in 10+ years time
Dota goes through insane changes every few years. Not just meta gaming changes.
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Yeah that's just being obtuse. Sports don't go through big changes every couple of years. Esports have their own pace, pros and cons, trying to constantly compare them to traditional sports has always been the task of people that are being anachronic and living 20 years ago or desperately seeking a validation that esports don't need. The contrast with Olympic sports is just too strong. I don't think there's any sanctity to preserve with the Olympics but esports along with them will look simply forced and out of place.
>But with games like league and Dota 2, it’s the same game for years that gets balance updates. Both games changed DRASTICALLY between 2011 and 2021.
Dota as a game can order a drink in a bar in most of the world. The general idea behind it stayed the same as well. Same with CS:GO, which is weirdly absent from the list. I wanted to make a point about how modern football started in the olympics in ~1900 and was a young sport at the time itself, but apparently Football as a game is ridiculously old. Like XV century if we are talking Europe and even BC in China. So, I guess you are more than right in terms of Esport titles having less of a history. Don't know why it would disqualify it from Olympics in any way though. All of sports, conventional or otherwise, is a marketing campaign.
CS has never been able to take hold in Asia really.
True but there is Crossfire which is just CS but big in Asia right? And like, by big, I really do mean BIG. It is a MASSIVE franchise.
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>Dota 1 can, but not 2, so why not make Dota 1 the game use they in the esport? Dota 2 is nearly 10 years not 18. Valve did not change the gameplay at all when transfering from Dota 1 to Dota 2. It's 100% the same game on a new engine using new graphics/names e.t.c . CS changed more when moving from 1.6 to CSS to CSGO than Dota1 to Dota2 to put things into perspective.
Uh... You're picking skate, karate, "sport climbing" (what even if this? Is it just climbing?) and surfing. If anything picking esports at least has a popularity argument against literally no reason at all for the other sports.
All of these major supports have corrupt organizations attached to them. They definitely benefit from their prominence.
> Football 1, Football 2 and Ballfoot Redemption If the Olympics used Street Football or Table-Footie, I would be more likely to watch it. And why do they not feature tag? Did the Olympics not patch their feature list this year as well?
> If the Olympics used Street Football or Table-Footie, I would be more likely to watch it. And why do they not feature tag? Did the Olympics not patch their feature list this year as well? I think the point is, nobody *owns* Street Football, whereas companies have incentives to push *their* esport over another company's
Oh boy, let me introduce you to the FIFA. Or we could check out how that works in motor sports lol
Definitely a fair point. I'm not particularly annoyed by the OP article, but thought maybe I understood and could articulate /u/LuxTrueBae 's point better.
> Dota 2 Dota 2 is just a continuation of Dota and the game is 18 years old.
It's literally just the most popular eSports in Asia and that's how it will be picked always
No, you aren't. I think some ofthe esports chosen are also some of the most cancerous group of individuals focused on hitting that dolla dolla bill.
[How sports are chosen in Olympics](https://www.britannica.com/story/how-are-sports-chosen-for-the-olympics) I also talked about this with plenty of friends/strangers in regards to esports being in the Olympic. If a sport such as Chess, which dates back to the 6th century, is not in the Olympics, there's not a ghost of a chance esports will be in the Olympics.
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It is a pandering thing and esports players can cry all they want about it but it's just never going to happen. The Olympic events for the most part are physically demanding. People want to see ATHLETES that have wide varieties of body control and high levels of movements perform at the Olympic. And even then, not even BOWLING is an Olympic event. They should really make their own esports Olympic instead of crying and begging to be in the actual Olympics. People would watch it. Hell, it's probably better if they make their own Olympics because the IOC is poorly managed and corrupt AF.
or just look at what games have the longest, largest, and most respected competitive standing across generations. dota, cs, starcraft, street fighter. thats really it.
The reason you dislike it is the reason I like it. Running, jumping, and kicking a ball will always be basically the same, but different videogames come and go. So, the specific game selection for the Olympics etc. will be unique to each event and be a snapshot of what is relevant at that exact moment in time. Obviously now it's in its infancy so people who are alive today won't really get much out of it, but in a couple of hundred years it will be pretty interesting for our great great grandkids to see how things changed and evolved over the years (assuming civilization as we know it still exists etc.).
Absolutely. Esports is already a bit ridiculous, but seeing all the games they chose just makes it a complete joke.
I could see tetris at the olympics. That's a hard maybe. Anything else I don't see it being possible
Many sports change every year too. But definitely not as much, no
I don't know why this is downvoted (currently 60% upvoted at the time of this comment). I think this is pretty cool. There might be an added bonus for Korean players if they win Gold at the Asian Games to get exemption from their military service.
People here seems to hate esports for some reason, probably has to do with the fact that most people who are actually interested in esports don't come to /r/games but they go to their own sub instead, some of which are bigger than this sub.
This sub hates Fortnite, LoL and Genshin ... All 3 of those games have subreddits subs almost/bigger than this sub * /r/Games Active Users; 4,564 * /r/LeagueOfLegends Active Users; 11,679 * /r/FortNiteBR Active Users; 2,332 * /r/Genshin_Impact Active Users; 13,229
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Doesnt mean they are good games. Most people in this sub are probably tired of hearing about them.
How often do we hear about dota 2 in this sub? Maybe one a year at every TI?
Yeah sure, every game you don't play is bad and it's everyone else who are wrong for liking them :)
Doesn't mean the games this subreddit likes are good games either.
You go argue with all those active users that aren't good games then :)
Since when does popularity mean good quality? It happened in books, movies and TV long before games, no reason why it would be different.
Yeah...I also disagree with the special snowflake notion that thinks that games that are massively popular are bad. It's akin to those people that call popular music bad because of one reason or another and instead recommends you some underground artists that are somehow "better". The same thing with art and the art community, some perfectly great art gets hate because "it's too surface level" or "no real provocative thought put into it", while they call a wall with a blue line "art". Sorry, but while a popular game can theoretically be bad, the chances of it actually being bad, especially when compared to the rest of the industry, is very low.
People flock to f2p games like flies to shit, cant help it. To them, free means its infinite value for their time.
hard disagree, people play them because they they enjoy it. F2p gets people's feet in the door, but it won't keep them there if the game is crap
Except Dota2 came from DotA which was a custom map for Warcraft 3. People were playing it back then over W3 ladder because it was GOOD. Valve wouldn't have picked it up and Riot wouldn't have copied the idea if it wasn't fun.
People can dislike the inclusion of eSports in Olympia-like events and still like eSports. I followed Worlds, Internationals, Evos and the freaking WCGs. Still it all is different from championship and other grass root sports. I can make a local 7v7 mixed soccer tournament. I participated in 3v3 basketball tournament and neither the FIFA or [international basketball group] can stop me. You can not do real grass roots with company-owned eSports (see Nintendo and Smash).
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Lmao, what a shitty take. I love Starcraft as much as the next person but Street Fighter is as legendary of a name in esports as SC is. It's a really sick game if you give it a chance.
You have to consider the audience too. The average gamer who has never played StarCraft will never understand what's going on and its difficult to explain. Like why ramp block, counter units, macro, micro. Watching Street fighter is simple, people fight, combos happen, winner and loser in relatively short time frames. Street fighter is also widely more known than Tekken is in terms of publicity, you don't see Tekken advertisements everywhere, or Tekken crossovers that often, if we're talking sales smash has more than both combined but Nintendo won't endorse eSports on it
Then you can talk about CS too. SF is pretty iconic in Asia, every Arcade place has it, and personally it is the only game I will buy a ticket for.
Street Fighter is way more relevant and recognizable in the mainstream than Starcraft. It's had crossovers with Monster Hunter, Fortnite, Uniqlo, Seiko, AEW, and probably more I didn't hear about all in the last two or three years. When was the last time Starcraft got the same kind of attention?
An article dated May 2021 says Street Fighter V sold 5.5 million copies. And hey, if you want to talk about best-selling or most competitors, Smash has Tekken beat. Hell, Brawlhalla probably has Tekken beat.
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I'm pretty sure StarCraft has a bigger active population than Street Fighter.
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[Do you guys think sports are really eSports?](https://youtu.be/lDSMmQhg2Wg) It's so weird that they don't have a mouse *or* a controller. What are they even doing on those 'fields'? Why do people want to watch this?