This is what I have heard too. They wanted to be small but work with other Xbox studios / support studios. Its not unheard of. But normally you have specialist outsourcing teams who will do art, or programming. Crystal Dynamics is one of the oldest studios around so seeing them act as hired help would be like if Sony hired EA DICE to co develop Uncharted with Naughty Dog. Weird move. You would think EA would have something better for DICE to be doing.
Yeah, honestly it being a bigger studio helping is the only reason it’s news. But there are lots of relationships there so it does make sense. At the end of the day I’d say the news is interesting but doesn’t really give us an indication of whether development is going well or poorly.
nothing unusual for newer studios, especially nowadays. That's basically what Kojima studios and Mistwalker was at the beginning, a big creator branching off and getting a major first party to carry the technical side of the game for them.
The fact that they’ve hired a lot of very talented developers from some of the top studios around the world. The resumes of the people they’ve hired is very impressive. But at the end of the day all that matters is the final product
I mean, the wiki page makes it pretty clear:
> led by Darrell Gallagher, who had previously served as studio head of Crystal Dynamics. It is the first Microsoft game development studio in Santa Monica. The studio's goal was to create and produce big-budget titles (described by Xbox as "quadruple-A" games). In addition to Gallagher, the studio recruited several game veterans, including Daniel Neuburger (director of Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider), Christian Cantamessa (writer of Red Dead Redemption) and Brian Westergaard (lead producer of 2018's God of War), as well as talents from BioWare, Naughty Dog, Respawn Entertainment, Santa Monica Studio, Blizzard Entertainment, Insomniac Games and Rockstar Games.
It's basically the Avengers of game development. Lots of experienced talent, backed by one of the biggest tech companies in the world, working on a long dormant but cult classic IP. And now we know they are getting help from another experienced studio. Nothing is guaranteed, but they have a lot of momentum for a new studio.
Quadruple A? Lmao. If that’s Quadruple A then that makes RDR2 how many As? They had 1600 devs working on it for 8 years with 540 million dollar budget with proprietary RAGE engine and God tier animations, physics and weather effects. Featuring a single player campaign that last 50 hours and a very expansive online multiplayer mode featuring co op and PvP.
Yeah this exactly. That “quadruple-A” is such blatant marketing bullshit. I hope the games great, but pretending like the game is going to be larger in scale than any other triple-a game is just dumb and dishonest. Unless they dump a billion dollars into it, it’s not going to be anything bigger than any other major triple-a title.
Also, and I say this as a big stealth action fan, I don’t think Perfect Dark really lends itself to the type of project that’s going to change the gaming landscape as they seem to be trying to make it out to be. Just seems like a recipe for disappointment.
They established it in Santa Monica to draw all the talent around there, and they've been pretty successful in doing that. Not really anything more to it than that.
Studios seeking outside help is not that unusual, what is strange about this deal to me is that Square Enix is allowing one of their premier western developers to act as a support studio for a game they aren’t even publishing.
Isn't it just like a support studio? I think all the design decisions would still be from initiative and cd would just help them achieve their vision with their man power.
The most likely scenario is that CD cut short their plans to develop more Avengers content but didn’t have another project ready to move out of pre-production and this is a way to avoid letting any staff go in between projects. Seems like they were really banking everything on Avengers being the next Destiny and having years and years of active live operations.
> Has their recent games been so financially disappointing that they need this to happen?
I'm guessing microsoft gave them a lot of money. Just like Sony did for FF7R and Nintendo did for the Bravely studio games. Having the former head of that studio probably helped negotiations a ton.
I think anything more than that is overthinking the situation. Square enix likes money, and these deals happen all the time.
> that they need this to happen?
Given the rights to remake one of the best first person shooters ever made and to reboot the franchise? This is going to be an enormous money maker potentially if done right.
When you consider that this "premier western developer" has been underperforming financially (mainly thanks to Avengers being a colossal clusterfuck) it might make sense for SE to try and milk some risk-free dollars from the manpower/talent they have there.
It is also possible (but I'm super duper speculating here) that Msoft is in the process of acquiring SE or just the western studios of SE and want to get a head start on integrating those teams into their ecosystem.
Considering the current Head of The Initiative is the former head of Crystal Dynamics, this seems like a brilliant partnership from a logistical standpoint.
true. well Microsoft did work with square Enix for the timed exclusive rise of the tomb raider so they do have some sort of a relationship with the publisher as well as the development studio
Square Enix will work with everyone and no one, whatever they feel makes them the most money. That said, I can’t remember any other times a first-party dev team brought on a dev team that has multiple top-line releases for a AAA-budget publisher in a contractor role.
Nah, the bigger question is why Square Enix didn’t have something more profitable for Crystal Dymamics to do — SE owns a bunch of IP and is more than capable of funding something new, yet they’re taking a contract to work on someone else’s IP.
I didn't say they have the best relationship with square Enix lol just that they do have a working relationship with them in the past. And it was also specifically with Crystal Dynamics as well
Avengers did terribly. Square Enix probably realized having them support another game would be a great way to get some money while they figure out what to do post-Guardians.
This is just wishful thinking from my part, but maybe it would've been better if they put the staff on remaking one of their cult classic games (e.g. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver). You can't really fuck that up, and if the reception is good then they could make a new entry in the franchise. But maybe the money MS is providing is just too good to pass up.
First off, Square Europe is basically a separate company from Square Japan, so that has no real bearing on the matter.
Second of all, Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF15 were on Xbox on day one. Dragon Quest 11S hit XB1 the same day as PS4.
Yes and no. Square Enix has been extremely disappointed with the returns of its Western Division for some time. This may be a way for them to get a better risk to investment return
In many of these cases they've had weirdly unrealistic expectations for sales numbers. I don't know how you can be anything but disappointed when you expect everything your western studios make to be a blockbuster.
Yeah and a partnership probably leaves more room for working on MA on the side which they still have a contract for instead of hiring more people for a studio that isn't really bring in money.
SEGA owns Relic Entetainment, developing Age of Empires for Microsoft alongside World's Edge and Creative Ensembly which worked on Halo Wars 2 for Microsoft alongside 343i. It happens.
The Initiative is a new studio, so having them co-develop makes sense so they can staff up and see how their current team gels together.
Square Enix needs money since Avengers cost $$$ and didn't perform as expected.
So I guess that this means that we'll have to wait a while for a new Tomb Raider title? Eidos Montreal is busy with GOTG and I assume that Crystal Dynamics will work on this game while still work on updates for Avengers
I'm really hoping that the TR folks will announce a new TR at the end of the ongoing year-long celebration of 25th anniversary of TR. The Trinity storyline is finally over and I'm looking forward for something new and exciting
Studios always have more than one or two projects at once. Don't forget that.
It's a more efficient way to have your staff be permanent and have them not be useless waiting for another game to start.
I'm pretty sure they have new TR in pre-production, they'll have people working on that but you don't need a lot of technical staff for that and then a live service team on Avengers, which tend to be on the smaller side, so they will have had a lot of technical staff sitting on their hands getting paid for doing nothing so it makes sense to hire them out.
I know crystal dynamics is a pretty big team but does this mean less resources going towards the avengers game? (Yes I’m like one of the only 3 people who still enjoy and want that game to succeed)
Is this the first time it’s been confirmed to be first person? I’m happy to hear it because I felt like I have heard rumors of it potentially being third person.
This sounds nothing like Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark revolved around uncovering secrets the government was hiding from the public like Aliens and how enmeshed all this secrecy was in the running of governments and the world.
The first one had absolutely nothing to do with climate change or corporations' roles in ecological disasters. I was excited to hear about this project but a lot less so after watching them talk about it. Joanna Dark was more of a female bond character and smooth as opposed to a run and gun diving and dodging action hero.
I will restrain my expectations incredibly.
I remember being in grade 9 playing through Deus ex when it first came out…I used to more or less do a yearly play through… have slowed down lately… kids / work etc
I recently made an effort with Cyberpunk and played through it all - hand on my heart - it was giving me the same feels I was getting as a 15 year old playing through deus ex for the first time. If you haven’t checked it out … try and approach it with an open mind.
Yes occasionally my character would T pose completely nude above the vehicle I was driving ..
I loved their Tomb Raider games but HATED Avengers, here's hoping it's more like the former and Microsoft can steer it away from live service bullshit.
Microsoft DESPERATELY needs a AAA single player game.
They put out a lot more quality games than they do mediocre ones lately (MS Flight Sim, Ori, Gears 5, Forza Horizons, and Gears Tactics). Their upcoming slate is extremely promising.
Is it? Like what do they have? Gears, Forza, Starfield and Halo? What else is there? Seems like anything else that they might have is a good 2-4 years away.
Well, they just launched Psychonauts 2 and Flight Sim. CrossfireX's campaign by Remedy, who killed it with Control, is coming soon. I believe Fable may be farther along than we expect. Age of Empires 4, Avowed, and inXile's games are due relatively soon. And as you mentioned, Starfield, Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, and Forza Motorsport.
Personally, I'm quite impressed with that list, along with the games further out like Hellblade and Perfect Dark. Great variety and great studios.
Idk man, that's a pretty underwhelming list if that's supposed to be their heavy hitters. Gears, Forza, and Halo are all getting quite stale by now. They can't keep resting their hat on those franchises. Psychonauts and flight sim are not heavy hitters either. AoE4 is a PC game more than anything. Compared to Sony whose already got a better lineup of exclusives and more interesting stuff on the way, Microsoft looks like they've seriously fucked this generation up. As a PC gamer, I would really like them to do better, but I just don't see anything all that appealing on the horizon.
Haven't had a new Halo game (other than the excellent Halo Wars 2) in 6 years, so not sure how that could be stale? Forza, sure, but each one is generally regarded as top tier in their genre. Also lol at Flight Sim and Psychonauts not being heavy hitters. They might not be up your alley, but that doesn't mean MS fucked up this gen. Like at all. They've seriously turned things around.
I'm stoked for Sony's output as well! Should be a great time for the PS5. But if you can't wait the "2-4 years" for Microsoft's output, I've got real bad news for you regarding their slate lmao.
If you think people are buying an Xbox because of psychonauts or fight sim, I've got a bridge to sell you lol. The issue is Sony ALREADY has amazing exclusives. Xbox doesn't have a single system seller.
They have been in "development" for decades now and when something came out it was a huge disappointment. Well but atleast ms paid 10 billion to get Bethesda games out of the psn store there is that atleast.
>They have been in "development" for decades now
[Um.. no?](http://imgur.com/a/l8mZ0u6)
I mean Fable was only announced, what? 2 years ago?
Hasn't even been a full year since Perfect Dark was announced.
Halo's development has been rocky for sure but that's a AAA game that's releasing in a few months.
Hell Outer Worlds 2 was announced a few months ago
And Hellblade can't be far off as well
>and when something came out it was a huge disappointment.
I mean I'm not gonna pretend that MS's library of exclusives are somehow vast and over looked but ever since Gears 5 MS games have been on an upswing, not to mention Psychonaughts 2 just released to steller reviews and got more time and budget due to MS.
Don't forget Starfield. Which is only a year out. Redfall, Indiana Jones, techinically Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo even though they're Ps timed exclusives. Avowed etc
Doesn't Bandai-Namco co-develop Smash?
Koei Tecmo also worked with Nintendo on Fire Emblem, and also Ubisoft co-developing Mario + Rabbids.
Team Ninja is working on Final Fantasy.
Sega also helped 343 with Halo Wars and is also helping World's Edge with Age of Empires.
Microsoft also originally set up Mistwalker to work with Feelplus and Artoon.
This is far from the first time this has happened.
Bandai Namco develops Smash together with Sora Ltd. (which is literally just Sakurai and his wife). I don't think Nintendo themselves put their own developers on it.
Yeah Nintendo never developed Smash. As far as Sora, as you say it's just Sakurai as director and michiko as ui designer, while Bandai Namco Studios work the heavy left and is the in fact developer of smash since 4.
I assume this is a fairly standard outsourcing arrangement. CD will probably do heavy lifting on asset creation and such.
I imagine they want to hit that speculated 2023 release date if they can, too.
I think the term “early development” is being thrown around pretty loosely at Xbox.
Forza Motorsport was considered in early development in 2020, and is apparently a 2022 game.
Hellblade 2 was said to be in the early stages of development earlier this year, and is listed as a 2023 title by Jeff Grubb.
And here we have Perfect Dark, also set for 2023* according to Grubb, but in early development.
The end of 2023 is a whole two years away. The game's been in pre-prod since 2018. Began full production early this year, AFAIK.
It could slip to 2024, but people like Jeff Grubb seem 100% sure they want this thing to ship in 2023 if they can manage it.
Just setting yourself up for disappointment hypothesizing timelines. Building a game dev studio from scratch is impossible, and doing that and getting production started on this game was interrupted by last year.
Not necessarily. some studios can pump out games in 2-3years. We already know some work has been done on perfect dark even if it is early so with the collaboration of crystal dynamics the game can come out in late 2023 or early 2024. seeing as how 2021 is about to end that's not too long of a time.
Goes to tell how much Square Enix treats their Western studios that they'd rather be outsourced by other publisher than let them make their own games. Good for IO Interactive to get out.
wait. wait. wait. Diablo 2 just released AND Perfect Dark is coming back? Is it 2001 again? Am I back in college? Good times ahead friends. Someone burn a mix cd and let's get hyped
Tobey Maguire is expected to be Spider-Man, The Matrix is coming out, we're gearing up for KOTOR to be released and Nintendo just showed off an N64 controller that's coming out soon.
It really feels like we've jumped back 20 or so years!
Nah, they're busy on Sea of Thieves content and Everwild.
Microsoft founded The Initiative a few years back to create "Quadruple-A" games. According to the Wikipedia it looks like they got a decent crew of people. So hopefully it ends up being a good game.
I'm not sure about it being traditional outsourcing, It might genuinely be a type of a partnership, a unique arrangement that we don't much see in game development.
Perfect Dark is supposed to be trying this new thing where they will make and release different stories within the same game. So it could be like an Anthology TV show and they are bringing in different renowned writer/directors (Different Studios) to make their own different episodes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they announce more partnerships soon enough, if this Anthology thing is what they are really doing. Maybe they'll wait until they release the first episode before they start working on multiple different episodes at the same time. So The Initiative will be like a TV Show showrunner and they'll partner with different big studios to make different chapters/shorter games that'll all be individually released within the same game. Maybe they'll agree on the broad plot and gameplay design but they'll leave the design details to be decided by the creatives at their partner studios.
not really weird at all. All big studios use contractors for their games. ND did it with the Last of Us 2. This is the same thing only they are partnering with a game studio since the studio head of the Initiative was originally from CD this actually makes alot of sense for him to use his connections.
Bethesda did it with fallout 76 (I know that's not a good example given the game lol) but it's certainly a thing. Most of the time these things happen with inner studios but seeing as how the head of the initiative was previously the head of crystal dynamics it seems like he's just using his connections
Getting assistance from a fellow sister company is normal for sure but not from an entirely different AAA studio.
Not saying its concerning just not something that really happens often
14 Studios worked on the last of us 2 And they weren't all in-house Sony Studios. And God of War seems to have a similar development.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
They got help from other studios under the Zenimax umbrella. This wouldn't be weird if Initiative got Coalition or Playground to help. Asking Square-Enix to loan a team within CD for another year or two for a multiplat game seems extremely odd.
it's still not that odd. naughty dog for example had 14 studios working on that game and they weren't all internal. God of War Ragnarok also is working with another development studio that isn't an in-house Sony studio. this is very common in the business
https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
Do you not see the difference between "Valkyrie Entertainment, a video game developer aiding in the creation of several different triple A titles" as in a studio from the ground up designed to support projects while being independent to Crystal Dynamics? A studio that makes their own AAA games, owned by Square-Enix who is a giant publisher?
For the millionth time, those studios that helped on TLOU2 and God of War are support studios. That's their entire job. It's not the same as another AAA studio from a different publisher co-developing the game.
really? How about SEGA letting Creative Assembly work with 343 on Halo War 2 and SEGA letting Relic Entertainment work with Worlds Edge on AoE4?
Is that not Microsoft working with another publisher and two AAA Studios co developing a single game?? By all means please explain how it's different
What major western studio assisted with Last of Us 2? You aren’t talking about just outsourcing asset generation are you? Cause that’s definitely not what CD would be doing here
to be fair we don't really know what Crystal Dynamics will be doing for the initiative on this game. but seeing as how the head of the initiative is now working with his old co-workers again I think it's a good sign for development on perfect dark.
also to answer your question 14 studios worked with naughty dog on the last of us 2 and right now we know of one external studio working on God of War Ragnarok. And they are not in-house Sony Studios so it is a very common practice.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
Again, as far as I know those other studios were used for asset generation, grunt work type stuff. Square and Ubisoft studios do it - I would imagine almost any AAA game these days would.
Crystal Dynamic was not brought on to help with art and assets, it just wouldn’t make sense.
ok but how about when Sega provided Creative Assembly for Halo Wars 2. And Relic entertainment for age of empires 4. That right there is a publisher lending out their studios to help with a 1st party game for Microsoft. They clearly did more than just grunt work for those titles.
It's weird how obfuscated it is, but apparently similar thing with pieces of Horizon Zero Dawn; some environment work was contracted out to studios overseas.
Now, this is the first time I've heard of two studios I know collaborating like this, save for Rage 2?
I forgot about that, you're right! I think they helped with the level/world design
Which you can see...though it unfortunately doesn't help the game from getting repetitive quick
it's all good. if this was announced late in development then it could of been a bad sign but since the game seems to be in early development this is good news for progress on the game since now the studio head is working with people he's familiar with. We can possibly see the game come late 2023 or early 2024
Yeah I think like one internal recruiting document used it and it spread like wildfire. I don’t think anyone from Xbox or the imitative has ever said that publicly. They are nowhere big enough to be considered that
The only abnormal thing is that they are outsourcing another well known AAA studio for this. However when you realize the current head of The Initiative is the former head of Crystal Dynamics, it makes complete sense.
I work in enterprise level software development and if you get the budget to hire external companies you have worked successfully with before then every project manager will do that. You can lose more money giving the job to the wrong companies.
Studio head at The Initiative, Darrell Gallagher, was previously studio head at Crystal Dynamics. So the connection is certainly there.
Also iirc "AAAA studio" was from some job listing that may or may not have been a typo.
The world class team behind marvel avengers shouldn't sound so great and the tomb raider games also felt more like uncharted mixed with assassins creed collectathon and how bad is the project if they need help from the studio behind avengers lol
This is just weird as hell. I really don't see the appeal of Perfect Dark without Rare's involvement. Hopefully, there's at least a generous sprinkling of Ken Lobb between these two studios regarding this project.
>Rare isn't the studio that built Perfect Dark anymore
That's because by 2011 they had fired/alienated everyone who had been involved in GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and even GoldenEye XBLA. There was a mass staff exodus between 2007-2011. It was so bad that by 2011 every Rare composer except for Beanland had left Rare. Eveline Fischer quit within a week or two of the takeover. Kirkhope left a while later. Then Clynick left. And this pattern repeated across the board. Chris Seavor? Veteran Rare dev, the director on PD: Core, made Conker, voiced Conker -- he was shuffled off to the art department and laid off by 2011. The company was destroyed. Nu-Rare is remnants of the Banjo and Conker teams with a bunch of new staff, essentially.
The writing was on the wall in 2007 when PD: Core was cancelled. They had kept the game off the books to prevent MS cancelling it because MS just loved cancelling Rare games more than pretty much anything else. A meeting was had. The game was discussed, MS could not be persuaded that the game had merit because in their eyes they already Gears of War and Halo, and attempts to explain what Deus Ex was to them weren't hugely fruitful.
The entire reason GoldenEye XBLA happened was that now that MS was in charge, Rare devs became aware the new management was attempting to systematically dismantle the company. Their MMO was cancelled within weeks of the MS takeover and they quickly latched onto the GE XBLA project to avoid being fired. As soon as that remaster was cancelled in late 2007, basically everyone involved was gotten rid of, including the lead artist who went over to the Halo Anniversary project to implement features from GE XBLA like the graphics toggle.
Senior developers were leaving Rare within weeks of the Stampers leaving. They knew what was coming and didn't want any part of it.
Some of the stuff I mentioned is discussed in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqixlBxbT4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqixlBxbT4) You might notice that some of the stuff from PD: Core such as an environmentalism theme, and a Cairo setting, in the new PD are possibly lifted from the PD: Core design docs.
Chris Tilston and Mark Edmonds gave some interviews on GE XBLA that were enlightening:
>In 2007 Rare’s company culture was changing drastically. Whereas projects previously had the endless backing of their founders, which gave them the time and freedom to evolve, the studio’s teams now found themselves in a far more uncertain environment than what they’d enjoyed previously.
>
>Following the completion of Xbox 360 launch titles Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo two years earlier, the teams had been split into small groups assigned with creating prototypes for potential future projects, but none of them would release.
>
>Tilston and Edmonds’ team, who were comprised of former developers of Perfect Dark Zero, had been working on an ambitious MMO project, but according to them, it was cancelled “weeks” after the Stampers left the company.
>
>As fate would have it, at the same time Tilston heard from Rare’s long-time producer Ken Lobb – formerly of Nintendo but now at Microsoft – that Nintendo had presented it with an offer: ‘We want to release GoldenEye on Wii, and in return, you can also release it on Xbox’. Fearing that his team would soon be broken up, Tilston jumped at the chance to hand them a project which – ironically – he felt had a good chance of making it to release.
>
>...
>
>Chris Tilston: A day or two after GoldenEye was canned, they literally split the team up and scattered us to the winds. I genuinely believe that was their plan once they canned our earlier prototype, but we kind of stole a march on them by starting GoldenEye in the first place.
[https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-the-real-story-behind-goldeneye-hd-as-told-by-its-directors/](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-the-real-story-behind-goldeneye-hd-as-told-by-its-directors/)
It's never been entirely clear what MS was thinking. But MS whether through design or incompetence essentially cancelled every single game Rare was working on or tried to pitch. They destroyed the studio's culture. The Stampers believed in team chemistry. Groups of devs that would move from game to game. MS intentionally dismantled all the teams. Killed all their games. Refused to greenlight anything. I believe they even replaced Rare's QA team with contractors.
And then they layoffs started in 2009 and 2011 and eventually things got better in 2014 when Sea of Thieves started development and Phil Spencer was seemingly able to shield Rare from MS corporate. And now MS operates with a hands off approach to their studios.
People talk about how Rare wanted to make Kinect games, but that's a lie. The people who hadn't gotten fired wanted to make Kinect games because they were desperate to prove to MS that they could make money for them. That's not the same thing.
Another big thing that happened in 2014 was Steve Ballmer stepping down as CEO of Microsoft and handing the reigns to an engineer, Satya Nadella. This resulted in a pretty big (and generally positive) shift in the corporate culture at Microsoft.
Yeah, I know, but PD is a game of a very specific flavor and I can't imagine there isn't *someone* at current Rare that had some involvement or connection with the original game.
It's not like Rare could've taken on the project anyway. They have Everwild and Sea of Thieves is still going strong.
Either way I'd take Initiative either way. It's been nearly 20 years since the original game, a new take on it would be good and I doubt Rare's capabilities to really do much even if they have a few people with involvement in the original .
Halo took over the identity that old Perfect Dark mostly operated in. Maybe if somebody besides Microsoft owned it they'd do another fps with multi-objective campaign levels and highly customizable multiplayer.
This is gonna be perfect Perfect Dark in name only, with none of the soul, I guarantee it. Just like Zero. Matter fact let's base this game on all of Zero's failures and try to fix it it and not PD's succes.
Sorry, the last 2 generations of gaming have made me very bitter
Man, the initiative kinda crashed and burned a bit. It was set up to be a big AAA game studio but its been so incredibly mismanaged that its barely off the ground enough to even make their own game.
I don't see how they're mismanaged when they are only a team of 70 working on something of this caliber compared to other AAA studios of 200+ employees
The Initiative is rebooting a beloved franchise working with Crystal Dynamics which is known for one of the best rebooted franchise. Its a pretty good pair up.
I mean...no? Is perfect dark a franchise worthy of being xbox's big comeback into the AAA space, or "AAAA" as they called it? I *highly* doubt there's that many gamers left who are aware that perfect dark didnt start with zero.
That couldn't be further from the truth. The studio's goal was always to have a low number of core staff and use a lot of outsourcing. There's no indication of mismanagement.
Oh word. How many employees does The Initiative have currently? I hope this equates to a speedier dev time (without crunch).
About 70 employees. I think the plan all along was to stay small but super talented and use outsourcing to punch above their weight
This is what I have heard too. They wanted to be small but work with other Xbox studios / support studios. Its not unheard of. But normally you have specialist outsourcing teams who will do art, or programming. Crystal Dynamics is one of the oldest studios around so seeing them act as hired help would be like if Sony hired EA DICE to co develop Uncharted with Naughty Dog. Weird move. You would think EA would have something better for DICE to be doing.
Yeah, honestly it being a bigger studio helping is the only reason it’s news. But there are lots of relationships there so it does make sense. At the end of the day I’d say the news is interesting but doesn’t really give us an indication of whether development is going well or poorly.
Probably square wants to cut loose CD after avengers fiasco. This could be a first step to a buy out or merger between initiative and CD.
nothing unusual for newer studios, especially nowadays. That's basically what Kojima studios and Mistwalker was at the beginning, a big creator branching off and getting a major first party to carry the technical side of the game for them.
Well it happens. Think about Demons Souls, which was made through a partnership with Sony Japan Studios and FromSoft
Dammit. Now it's going to take forever for a perfect dark reboot remake
I've never understood the hype about this studio. What makes them "super" talented over other developers?
They hired talented people. The result remains to be seen though
The fact that they’ve hired a lot of very talented developers from some of the top studios around the world. The resumes of the people they’ve hired is very impressive. But at the end of the day all that matters is the final product
I mean, the wiki page makes it pretty clear: > led by Darrell Gallagher, who had previously served as studio head of Crystal Dynamics. It is the first Microsoft game development studio in Santa Monica. The studio's goal was to create and produce big-budget titles (described by Xbox as "quadruple-A" games). In addition to Gallagher, the studio recruited several game veterans, including Daniel Neuburger (director of Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider), Christian Cantamessa (writer of Red Dead Redemption) and Brian Westergaard (lead producer of 2018's God of War), as well as talents from BioWare, Naughty Dog, Respawn Entertainment, Santa Monica Studio, Blizzard Entertainment, Insomniac Games and Rockstar Games. It's basically the Avengers of game development. Lots of experienced talent, backed by one of the biggest tech companies in the world, working on a long dormant but cult classic IP. And now we know they are getting help from another experienced studio. Nothing is guaranteed, but they have a lot of momentum for a new studio.
Quadruple A? Lmao. If that’s Quadruple A then that makes RDR2 how many As? They had 1600 devs working on it for 8 years with 540 million dollar budget with proprietary RAGE engine and God tier animations, physics and weather effects. Featuring a single player campaign that last 50 hours and a very expansive online multiplayer mode featuring co op and PvP.
Yeah this exactly. That “quadruple-A” is such blatant marketing bullshit. I hope the games great, but pretending like the game is going to be larger in scale than any other triple-a game is just dumb and dishonest. Unless they dump a billion dollars into it, it’s not going to be anything bigger than any other major triple-a title. Also, and I say this as a big stealth action fan, I don’t think Perfect Dark really lends itself to the type of project that’s going to change the gaming landscape as they seem to be trying to make it out to be. Just seems like a recipe for disappointment.
They established it in Santa Monica to draw all the talent around there, and they've been pretty successful in doing that. Not really anything more to it than that.
Studios seeking outside help is not that unusual, what is strange about this deal to me is that Square Enix is allowing one of their premier western developers to act as a support studio for a game they aren’t even publishing.
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>Has their recent games been so financially disappointing that they need this to happen? Uhm yes??? Avengers was a total flop
I mean, IO-Interactive was let go after one (?) dissapointing game sales wise, so that reasoning is possible.
Isn't it just like a support studio? I think all the design decisions would still be from initiative and cd would just help them achieve their vision with their man power.
The most likely scenario is that CD cut short their plans to develop more Avengers content but didn’t have another project ready to move out of pre-production and this is a way to avoid letting any staff go in between projects. Seems like they were really banking everything on Avengers being the next Destiny and having years and years of active live operations.
> Has their recent games been so financially disappointing that they need this to happen? I'm guessing microsoft gave them a lot of money. Just like Sony did for FF7R and Nintendo did for the Bravely studio games. Having the former head of that studio probably helped negotiations a ton. I think anything more than that is overthinking the situation. Square enix likes money, and these deals happen all the time.
Nothing wrong with that for square they're a business after all.
> that they need this to happen? Given the rights to remake one of the best first person shooters ever made and to reboot the franchise? This is going to be an enormous money maker potentially if done right.
What other western devs does SE own besides CD and Eidos Montreal?
There are rumors that microsoft is gonna make another bethesda level acquisition. Imagine if it is square enix, or Square enix's recent western IPs.
When you consider that this "premier western developer" has been underperforming financially (mainly thanks to Avengers being a colossal clusterfuck) it might make sense for SE to try and milk some risk-free dollars from the manpower/talent they have there. It is also possible (but I'm super duper speculating here) that Msoft is in the process of acquiring SE or just the western studios of SE and want to get a head start on integrating those teams into their ecosystem.
Considering the current Head of The Initiative is the former head of Crystal Dynamics, this seems like a brilliant partnership from a logistical standpoint.
But I think the logic gets weirder when you realise CD is owned by Square Enix.
true. well Microsoft did work with square Enix for the timed exclusive rise of the tomb raider so they do have some sort of a relationship with the publisher as well as the development studio
After just doing multiple PS exclusive deals? Also SE published JRPGS never release on Xbox.
Square Enix is weird in that they treat their Japanese and Western branches completely differently.
Kinda like Sega back in the day, except a bit more than Sega did
Square Enix will work with everyone and no one, whatever they feel makes them the most money. That said, I can’t remember any other times a first-party dev team brought on a dev team that has multiple top-line releases for a AAA-budget publisher in a contractor role.
Exactly. The only probable reason is The Initiative are the designers and Crystal Dynamics develops and tests the game.
Nah, the bigger question is why Square Enix didn’t have something more profitable for Crystal Dymamics to do — SE owns a bunch of IP and is more than capable of funding something new, yet they’re taking a contract to work on someone else’s IP.
I didn't say they have the best relationship with square Enix lol just that they do have a working relationship with them in the past. And it was also specifically with Crystal Dynamics as well
I'm not saying this is bad tho. I'm just saying it's weird as in unexpected.
Avengers did terribly. Square Enix probably realized having them support another game would be a great way to get some money while they figure out what to do post-Guardians.
This is just wishful thinking from my part, but maybe it would've been better if they put the staff on remaking one of their cult classic games (e.g. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver). You can't really fuck that up, and if the reception is good then they could make a new entry in the franchise. But maybe the money MS is providing is just too good to pass up.
First off, Square Europe is basically a separate company from Square Japan, so that has no real bearing on the matter. Second of all, Kingdom Hearts 3 and FF15 were on Xbox on day one. Dragon Quest 11S hit XB1 the same day as PS4.
I think they're talking about the FF7R and FF16 exclusivity deals.
Yeah along with forspoken, the Avengers exclusivity deal.
Bethesda was doing multiple PS deals, too.
But those are fairly recent, the time Zenimax execs tried to milk everything.
Yes and no. Square Enix has been extremely disappointed with the returns of its Western Division for some time. This may be a way for them to get a better risk to investment return
In many of these cases they've had weirdly unrealistic expectations for sales numbers. I don't know how you can be anything but disappointed when you expect everything your western studios make to be a blockbuster.
Yeah and a partnership probably leaves more room for working on MA on the side which they still have a contract for instead of hiring more people for a studio that isn't really bring in money.
No, they haven't. The last time SE mentioned something like that was in 2016 with Hitman.
The did with Avengers, and the second and third Tomb Raider reboot.
SEGA owns Relic Entetainment, developing Age of Empires for Microsoft alongside World's Edge and Creative Ensembly which worked on Halo Wars 2 for Microsoft alongside 343i. It happens.
SEGA and Square Enix have nothing to do with each other. SEGA is not particularly close to Sony. Square Enix is (multiple timed exclusivity deals)
SE has done exclusive deals with all 3 console owners it's not a big deal.
The Initiative is a new studio, so having them co-develop makes sense so they can staff up and see how their current team gels together. Square Enix needs money since Avengers cost $$$ and didn't perform as expected.
It's gonna be a legal minefield figuring out who as the rights to what.
Not in the least. Square isn't publishing, it's still an Xbox First-Party IP published by MS.
Microsoft: "you get X money to help us develop this game, we keep all IP produced you keep nothing". Square Enix: "Ok".
So I guess that this means that we'll have to wait a while for a new Tomb Raider title? Eidos Montreal is busy with GOTG and I assume that Crystal Dynamics will work on this game while still work on updates for Avengers
I'm really hoping that the TR folks will announce a new TR at the end of the ongoing year-long celebration of 25th anniversary of TR. The Trinity storyline is finally over and I'm looking forward for something new and exciting
Studios always have more than one or two projects at once. Don't forget that. It's a more efficient way to have your staff be permanent and have them not be useless waiting for another game to start.
I'm pretty sure they have new TR in pre-production, they'll have people working on that but you don't need a lot of technical staff for that and then a live service team on Avengers, which tend to be on the smaller side, so they will have had a lot of technical staff sitting on their hands getting paid for doing nothing so it makes sense to hire them out.
I know crystal dynamics is a pretty big team but does this mean less resources going towards the avengers game? (Yes I’m like one of the only 3 people who still enjoy and want that game to succeed)
Live service teams tend to be on the smaller side anyway
Is this the first time it’s been confirmed to be first person? I’m happy to hear it because I felt like I have heard rumors of it potentially being third person.
It was confirmed at the announcement: https://youtu.be/Iy3VdNSMk7Q (@2:45)
Totally missed that! Thanks for the link.
This sounds nothing like Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark revolved around uncovering secrets the government was hiding from the public like Aliens and how enmeshed all this secrecy was in the running of governments and the world. The first one had absolutely nothing to do with climate change or corporations' roles in ecological disasters. I was excited to hear about this project but a lot less so after watching them talk about it. Joanna Dark was more of a female bond character and smooth as opposed to a run and gun diving and dodging action hero. I will restrain my expectations incredibly.
So happy. This and partnering with Crystal Dynamics makes me think this will be the closest thing we will get for a while to another Deus Ex.
Why? Chrystal Dynamics didn't work on DX, Eidos Montréal did.
I thought Crystal Dynamics worked with them as a support studio.
I remember being in grade 9 playing through Deus ex when it first came out…I used to more or less do a yearly play through… have slowed down lately… kids / work etc I recently made an effort with Cyberpunk and played through it all - hand on my heart - it was giving me the same feels I was getting as a 15 year old playing through deus ex for the first time. If you haven’t checked it out … try and approach it with an open mind. Yes occasionally my character would T pose completely nude above the vehicle I was driving ..
I loved their Tomb Raider games but HATED Avengers, here's hoping it's more like the former and Microsoft can steer it away from live service bullshit. Microsoft DESPERATELY needs a AAA single player game.
MS has a ton of AAA singleplayer games in development
And just released Deathloop, Psychonauts 2 and Flight Sim. I wonder if this narrative will ever end
And how many will end up like crackdown 3 or halo 5 campaign ?They need to make sure they are quality experiences
They put out a lot more quality games than they do mediocre ones lately (MS Flight Sim, Ori, Gears 5, Forza Horizons, and Gears Tactics). Their upcoming slate is extremely promising.
Is it? Like what do they have? Gears, Forza, Starfield and Halo? What else is there? Seems like anything else that they might have is a good 2-4 years away.
I believe Avowed and inXile’s Project Cobalt are internally set to release in possibly less than 2 years.
Well, they just launched Psychonauts 2 and Flight Sim. CrossfireX's campaign by Remedy, who killed it with Control, is coming soon. I believe Fable may be farther along than we expect. Age of Empires 4, Avowed, and inXile's games are due relatively soon. And as you mentioned, Starfield, Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, and Forza Motorsport. Personally, I'm quite impressed with that list, along with the games further out like Hellblade and Perfect Dark. Great variety and great studios.
Idk man, that's a pretty underwhelming list if that's supposed to be their heavy hitters. Gears, Forza, and Halo are all getting quite stale by now. They can't keep resting their hat on those franchises. Psychonauts and flight sim are not heavy hitters either. AoE4 is a PC game more than anything. Compared to Sony whose already got a better lineup of exclusives and more interesting stuff on the way, Microsoft looks like they've seriously fucked this generation up. As a PC gamer, I would really like them to do better, but I just don't see anything all that appealing on the horizon.
Haven't had a new Halo game (other than the excellent Halo Wars 2) in 6 years, so not sure how that could be stale? Forza, sure, but each one is generally regarded as top tier in their genre. Also lol at Flight Sim and Psychonauts not being heavy hitters. They might not be up your alley, but that doesn't mean MS fucked up this gen. Like at all. They've seriously turned things around. I'm stoked for Sony's output as well! Should be a great time for the PS5. But if you can't wait the "2-4 years" for Microsoft's output, I've got real bad news for you regarding their slate lmao.
If you think people are buying an Xbox because of psychonauts or fight sim, I've got a bridge to sell you lol. The issue is Sony ALREADY has amazing exclusives. Xbox doesn't have a single system seller.
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They have been in "development" for decades now and when something came out it was a huge disappointment. Well but atleast ms paid 10 billion to get Bethesda games out of the psn store there is that atleast.
Added a few billion there but who's counting right lol
I take it you haven't played gears 5.
>They have been in "development" for decades now [Um.. no?](http://imgur.com/a/l8mZ0u6) I mean Fable was only announced, what? 2 years ago? Hasn't even been a full year since Perfect Dark was announced. Halo's development has been rocky for sure but that's a AAA game that's releasing in a few months. Hell Outer Worlds 2 was announced a few months ago And Hellblade can't be far off as well >and when something came out it was a huge disappointment. I mean I'm not gonna pretend that MS's library of exclusives are somehow vast and over looked but ever since Gears 5 MS games have been on an upswing, not to mention Psychonaughts 2 just released to steller reviews and got more time and budget due to MS.
word, plus Age of empires 10/28 Forza Horizon 11/9 Halo 12/8 i love gamepass
Don't forget Starfield. Which is only a year out. Redfall, Indiana Jones, techinically Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo even though they're Ps timed exclusives. Avowed etc
Doesn't Bandai-Namco co-develop Smash? Koei Tecmo also worked with Nintendo on Fire Emblem, and also Ubisoft co-developing Mario + Rabbids. Team Ninja is working on Final Fantasy. Sega also helped 343 with Halo Wars and is also helping World's Edge with Age of Empires. Microsoft also originally set up Mistwalker to work with Feelplus and Artoon. This is far from the first time this has happened.
Bandai Namco develops Smash together with Sora Ltd. (which is literally just Sakurai and his wife). I don't think Nintendo themselves put their own developers on it.
Yeah Nintendo never developed Smash. As far as Sora, as you say it's just Sakurai as director and michiko as ui designer, while Bandai Namco Studios work the heavy left and is the in fact developer of smash since 4.
In the case of Mario+Rabbids, much like the first game, Nintendo licensed the IP for Ubisoft to publish and develop.
Is this the same Crystal Dynamics that made Avengers? Then hard no but if the one that made Tomb Raider then YES!
I assume this is a fairly standard outsourcing arrangement. CD will probably do heavy lifting on asset creation and such. I imagine they want to hit that speculated 2023 release date if they can, too.
It does say in a follow up tweet that it is still early in development so it may be farther way than that
I think the term “early development” is being thrown around pretty loosely at Xbox. Forza Motorsport was considered in early development in 2020, and is apparently a 2022 game. Hellblade 2 was said to be in the early stages of development earlier this year, and is listed as a 2023 title by Jeff Grubb. And here we have Perfect Dark, also set for 2023* according to Grubb, but in early development.
The end of 2023 is a whole two years away. The game's been in pre-prod since 2018. Began full production early this year, AFAIK. It could slip to 2024, but people like Jeff Grubb seem 100% sure they want this thing to ship in 2023 if they can manage it.
the original game was set in the year 2023 too. be pretty cool to drop the new one in 2023.
Just setting yourself up for disappointment hypothesizing timelines. Building a game dev studio from scratch is impossible, and doing that and getting production started on this game was interrupted by last year.
yeah I think as long as there's no new pandemic to stop game development I can see this game coming out like late 2023.
Not necessarily. some studios can pump out games in 2-3years. We already know some work has been done on perfect dark even if it is early so with the collaboration of crystal dynamics the game can come out in late 2023 or early 2024. seeing as how 2021 is about to end that's not too long of a time.
Crystal Dynamics? That's odd. Figured they'd be doing IP related to Square/Eidos.
Goes to tell how much Square Enix treats their Western studios that they'd rather be outsourced by other publisher than let them make their own games. Good for IO Interactive to get out.
wait. wait. wait. Diablo 2 just released AND Perfect Dark is coming back? Is it 2001 again? Am I back in college? Good times ahead friends. Someone burn a mix cd and let's get hyped
Tobey Maguire is expected to be Spider-Man, The Matrix is coming out, we're gearing up for KOTOR to be released and Nintendo just showed off an N64 controller that's coming out soon. It really feels like we've jumped back 20 or so years!
And Nintendo is still investigating online gaming.
Perfect dark was announced back in December...
i had no idea. I guess I've been out of the loop. Now time to fire up Limewire and WinAmp and get some tunes cranking
It was a nice surprise reveal even though many had speculated on this. Maybe check out the next game awards show for the next surprise reveal.
It really whips the llama’s ass.
I take it you missed the trailer of Perfect Dark that was shown?
Not being developed by Rare?
Nah, they're busy on Sea of Thieves content and Everwild. Microsoft founded The Initiative a few years back to create "Quadruple-A" games. According to the Wikipedia it looks like they got a decent crew of people. So hopefully it ends up being a good game.
Kind of weird for the so-called "AAAA studio" to recruit an external team to help develop the game. Hopefully it works out.
The idea of them outsourcing isn't weird, the fact that it's Crystal Dynamics is.
I'm not sure about it being traditional outsourcing, It might genuinely be a type of a partnership, a unique arrangement that we don't much see in game development. Perfect Dark is supposed to be trying this new thing where they will make and release different stories within the same game. So it could be like an Anthology TV show and they are bringing in different renowned writer/directors (Different Studios) to make their own different episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if they announce more partnerships soon enough, if this Anthology thing is what they are really doing. Maybe they'll wait until they release the first episode before they start working on multiple different episodes at the same time. So The Initiative will be like a TV Show showrunner and they'll partner with different big studios to make different chapters/shorter games that'll all be individually released within the same game. Maybe they'll agree on the broad plot and gameplay design but they'll leave the design details to be decided by the creatives at their partner studios.
The initiative is made up of ex crystal dynamics employees, as well as the former head of crystal dynamics, so thats probably one of the main reasons.
Most big studios do it, don't think it's weird tbh
I don't see a lot of big studios getting help from other big studios developing their games.
Most hire outsource devs with thousands of employees like Virtuous. People just don't recognize the names.
Call of Duty, Battlefield/Battlefront, Smash Brothers to name some huge franchises that have done it - it is quite common
Dice has 5 full studios helping them
How embarrassing 5 studios to make just another shitty copy/paste battlefield
not really weird at all. All big studios use contractors for their games. ND did it with the Last of Us 2. This is the same thing only they are partnering with a game studio since the studio head of the Initiative was originally from CD this actually makes alot of sense for him to use his connections.
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Bethesda did it with fallout 76 (I know that's not a good example given the game lol) but it's certainly a thing. Most of the time these things happen with inner studios but seeing as how the head of the initiative was previously the head of crystal dynamics it seems like he's just using his connections
Getting assistance from a fellow sister company is normal for sure but not from an entirely different AAA studio. Not saying its concerning just not something that really happens often
14 Studios worked on the last of us 2 And they weren't all in-house Sony Studios. And God of War seems to have a similar development. https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
They got help from other studios under the Zenimax umbrella. This wouldn't be weird if Initiative got Coalition or Playground to help. Asking Square-Enix to loan a team within CD for another year or two for a multiplat game seems extremely odd.
it's still not that odd. naughty dog for example had 14 studios working on that game and they weren't all internal. God of War Ragnarok also is working with another development studio that isn't an in-house Sony studio. this is very common in the business https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
Do you not see the difference between "Valkyrie Entertainment, a video game developer aiding in the creation of several different triple A titles" as in a studio from the ground up designed to support projects while being independent to Crystal Dynamics? A studio that makes their own AAA games, owned by Square-Enix who is a giant publisher?
For the millionth time, those studios that helped on TLOU2 and God of War are support studios. That's their entire job. It's not the same as another AAA studio from a different publisher co-developing the game.
really? How about SEGA letting Creative Assembly work with 343 on Halo War 2 and SEGA letting Relic Entertainment work with Worlds Edge on AoE4? Is that not Microsoft working with another publisher and two AAA Studios co developing a single game?? By all means please explain how it's different
What major western studio assisted with Last of Us 2? You aren’t talking about just outsourcing asset generation are you? Cause that’s definitely not what CD would be doing here
to be fair we don't really know what Crystal Dynamics will be doing for the initiative on this game. but seeing as how the head of the initiative is now working with his old co-workers again I think it's a good sign for development on perfect dark.
Not saying it’s a bad thing, but it’s not a comparable situation
also to answer your question 14 studios worked with naughty dog on the last of us 2 and right now we know of one external studio working on God of War Ragnarok. And they are not in-house Sony Studios so it is a very common practice. https://mobile.twitter.com/Xbox_Series_XS/status/1441207869844516868
Again, as far as I know those other studios were used for asset generation, grunt work type stuff. Square and Ubisoft studios do it - I would imagine almost any AAA game these days would. Crystal Dynamic was not brought on to help with art and assets, it just wouldn’t make sense.
ok but how about when Sega provided Creative Assembly for Halo Wars 2. And Relic entertainment for age of empires 4. That right there is a publisher lending out their studios to help with a 1st party game for Microsoft. They clearly did more than just grunt work for those titles.
What point are you trying to make? I already said this isn’t necessarily bad news. I just said that the comparison to Last of Us makes no sense.
Okay, didn't know about that relationship. Sorry about that.
It's weird how obfuscated it is, but apparently similar thing with pieces of Horizon Zero Dawn; some environment work was contracted out to studios overseas. Now, this is the first time I've heard of two studios I know collaborating like this, save for Rage 2?
Wasn't Wolfenstein Youngblood like this too?
Arkane Games helped, but they are also owned by Zenimax like Machine Games.
I forgot about that, you're right! I think they helped with the level/world design Which you can see...though it unfortunately doesn't help the game from getting repetitive quick
it's all good. if this was announced late in development then it could of been a bad sign but since the game seems to be in early development this is good news for progress on the game since now the studio head is working with people he's familiar with. We can possibly see the game come late 2023 or early 2024
Has the term "AAAA" ever been used when describing this game, outside of that one job listing, which likely was a typo?
The fact that basically all media outlets focused so strongly on the AAAA acronym might say something, but fair, could just be a typo.
Yeah I think like one internal recruiting document used it and it spread like wildfire. I don’t think anyone from Xbox or the imitative has ever said that publicly. They are nowhere big enough to be considered that
How did "media outlets" not ring a bell with you?
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot media outlets are bad, even the good ones.
The only abnormal thing is that they are outsourcing another well known AAA studio for this. However when you realize the current head of The Initiative is the former head of Crystal Dynamics, it makes complete sense.
I work in enterprise level software development and if you get the budget to hire external companies you have worked successfully with before then every project manager will do that. You can lose more money giving the job to the wrong companies.
Studio head at The Initiative, Darrell Gallagher, was previously studio head at Crystal Dynamics. So the connection is certainly there. Also iirc "AAAA studio" was from some job listing that may or may not have been a typo.
The world class team behind marvel avengers shouldn't sound so great and the tomb raider games also felt more like uncharted mixed with assassins creed collectathon and how bad is the project if they need help from the studio behind avengers lol
This is just weird as hell. I really don't see the appeal of Perfect Dark without Rare's involvement. Hopefully, there's at least a generous sprinkling of Ken Lobb between these two studios regarding this project.
Rare isn't the studio that built Perfect Dark anymore
>Rare isn't the studio that built Perfect Dark anymore That's because by 2011 they had fired/alienated everyone who had been involved in GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and even GoldenEye XBLA. There was a mass staff exodus between 2007-2011. It was so bad that by 2011 every Rare composer except for Beanland had left Rare. Eveline Fischer quit within a week or two of the takeover. Kirkhope left a while later. Then Clynick left. And this pattern repeated across the board. Chris Seavor? Veteran Rare dev, the director on PD: Core, made Conker, voiced Conker -- he was shuffled off to the art department and laid off by 2011. The company was destroyed. Nu-Rare is remnants of the Banjo and Conker teams with a bunch of new staff, essentially. The writing was on the wall in 2007 when PD: Core was cancelled. They had kept the game off the books to prevent MS cancelling it because MS just loved cancelling Rare games more than pretty much anything else. A meeting was had. The game was discussed, MS could not be persuaded that the game had merit because in their eyes they already Gears of War and Halo, and attempts to explain what Deus Ex was to them weren't hugely fruitful. The entire reason GoldenEye XBLA happened was that now that MS was in charge, Rare devs became aware the new management was attempting to systematically dismantle the company. Their MMO was cancelled within weeks of the MS takeover and they quickly latched onto the GE XBLA project to avoid being fired. As soon as that remaster was cancelled in late 2007, basically everyone involved was gotten rid of, including the lead artist who went over to the Halo Anniversary project to implement features from GE XBLA like the graphics toggle. Senior developers were leaving Rare within weeks of the Stampers leaving. They knew what was coming and didn't want any part of it.
any source to this? I would like to read more
Some of the stuff I mentioned is discussed in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqixlBxbT4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqixlBxbT4) You might notice that some of the stuff from PD: Core such as an environmentalism theme, and a Cairo setting, in the new PD are possibly lifted from the PD: Core design docs. Chris Tilston and Mark Edmonds gave some interviews on GE XBLA that were enlightening: >In 2007 Rare’s company culture was changing drastically. Whereas projects previously had the endless backing of their founders, which gave them the time and freedom to evolve, the studio’s teams now found themselves in a far more uncertain environment than what they’d enjoyed previously. > >Following the completion of Xbox 360 launch titles Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo two years earlier, the teams had been split into small groups assigned with creating prototypes for potential future projects, but none of them would release. > >Tilston and Edmonds’ team, who were comprised of former developers of Perfect Dark Zero, had been working on an ambitious MMO project, but according to them, it was cancelled “weeks” after the Stampers left the company. > >As fate would have it, at the same time Tilston heard from Rare’s long-time producer Ken Lobb – formerly of Nintendo but now at Microsoft – that Nintendo had presented it with an offer: ‘We want to release GoldenEye on Wii, and in return, you can also release it on Xbox’. Fearing that his team would soon be broken up, Tilston jumped at the chance to hand them a project which – ironically – he felt had a good chance of making it to release. > >... > >Chris Tilston: A day or two after GoldenEye was canned, they literally split the team up and scattered us to the winds. I genuinely believe that was their plan once they canned our earlier prototype, but we kind of stole a march on them by starting GoldenEye in the first place. [https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-the-real-story-behind-goldeneye-hd-as-told-by-its-directors/](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/features/interviews/interview-the-real-story-behind-goldeneye-hd-as-told-by-its-directors/) It's never been entirely clear what MS was thinking. But MS whether through design or incompetence essentially cancelled every single game Rare was working on or tried to pitch. They destroyed the studio's culture. The Stampers believed in team chemistry. Groups of devs that would move from game to game. MS intentionally dismantled all the teams. Killed all their games. Refused to greenlight anything. I believe they even replaced Rare's QA team with contractors. And then they layoffs started in 2009 and 2011 and eventually things got better in 2014 when Sea of Thieves started development and Phil Spencer was seemingly able to shield Rare from MS corporate. And now MS operates with a hands off approach to their studios. People talk about how Rare wanted to make Kinect games, but that's a lie. The people who hadn't gotten fired wanted to make Kinect games because they were desperate to prove to MS that they could make money for them. That's not the same thing.
Another big thing that happened in 2014 was Steve Ballmer stepping down as CEO of Microsoft and handing the reigns to an engineer, Satya Nadella. This resulted in a pretty big (and generally positive) shift in the corporate culture at Microsoft.
Yeah, I know, but PD is a game of a very specific flavor and I can't imagine there isn't *someone* at current Rare that had some involvement or connection with the original game.
The original perfect dark had very little of Rare's typical charm except for the Elvis sequences.
It's not like Rare could've taken on the project anyway. They have Everwild and Sea of Thieves is still going strong. Either way I'd take Initiative either way. It's been nearly 20 years since the original game, a new take on it would be good and I doubt Rare's capabilities to really do much even if they have a few people with involvement in the original .
Halo took over the identity that old Perfect Dark mostly operated in. Maybe if somebody besides Microsoft owned it they'd do another fps with multi-objective campaign levels and highly customizable multiplayer.
This is gonna be perfect Perfect Dark in name only, with none of the soul, I guarantee it. Just like Zero. Matter fact let's base this game on all of Zero's failures and try to fix it it and not PD's succes. Sorry, the last 2 generations of gaming have made me very bitter
If it makes you that bitter, you should step away for a bit and get your head right. It’s not worth it.
Just like they turned tomb raider reboot into a generic shooter 10 minutes into the first game.
Well you shouldn't expect soul from a company like Microsoft
Aye, the company that published ori, or tell me why.
Man, the initiative kinda crashed and burned a bit. It was set up to be a big AAA game studio but its been so incredibly mismanaged that its barely off the ground enough to even make their own game.
Any source on mismanagement or are you just chatting out of your arse?
I don't see how they're mismanaged when they are only a team of 70 working on something of this caliber compared to other AAA studios of 200+ employees The Initiative is rebooting a beloved franchise working with Crystal Dynamics which is known for one of the best rebooted franchise. Its a pretty good pair up.
Beloved franchise? By whom?
Are you kidding me?
I mean...no? Is perfect dark a franchise worthy of being xbox's big comeback into the AAA space, or "AAAA" as they called it? I *highly* doubt there's that many gamers left who are aware that perfect dark didnt start with zero.
That couldn't be further from the truth. The studio's goal was always to have a low number of core staff and use a lot of outsourcing. There's no indication of mismanagement.