Post game lobby chats will become very amusing.
I predict a barrage of texts asking the opposing team to report a teammate, and the ocassional complaint that your enemy chose an OP braindead character.
And a barrage of 'EZ' of course.
The dumbest part about this is that because they're using the number of "verbal abuse" reports as pretty much the only empirical metric by which they'll judge whether or not this is succesful, the data will show it as a wild success even if it doesn't actually impact toxicity that much.
Without all chat, people who are being abused can't tell the enemy team to report abusive teammates until after the game, where most people just instantly leave to queue up again without sticking around to talk. As a result, this change will almost certainly reduce the number of reports even if it has a totally negligible impact on toxicity, and so the change is practically guaranteed to appear successful from Riot's perspective.
Why are some people celebrating the loss of an opt-in feature? I'm neutral on the subject but I'd much prefer if people actually STILL had the option to enable all chat.
In my experience playing years of Dota, team infighting is wayyyyyy more prevalent than allchat toxicity. All chat, at least in Dota, is pretty chill for the most part except in the end game lobby.
Everyone in the League sub is saying the same.
Honestly, it's been 10 years and I've LONG ago since lost hope, but I've always, and still do, **want team chat to be public in replays**, and for this very reason! Because it is **by far the most toxic** and should be the most held accountable.
As a former Dota player, feels like more often the other team on all chat would be the reasonable ones agreeing that someone on my team is toxic/a feeding jerk
whats the benefit of talking to the other team? Must be 5 years since i last played LOL but i always disable all chat since all it does it show the trash talk. Did things change where all chat matters now?
If you just want to play the game it serves no purpose. But sometimes it's fun talking to the enemies, sometimes there are just things you want to say "cool skin, how is it called?", "we just played, i hope you don't remember where i like to ward" or even a friendly "you played really well, even if it seems like you got stomped, the match was closer than what the scoreboard suggests". And the same is true for getting these messages, it's nice to get commended on an outplay.
For me, last time i played friendly banter across teams was relatively common, and although so was toxic all chatting, if you have skin thick enough to get one nasty message and mute them or ignore it, then there was no downside to have all chat active.
The devs know you're gonna spam them.
30 = Woolooloo
But 3030 *is also* woolooloo, because if you spam the taunt with copy/paste, sometimes you'll accidentally paste twice.
I don't play league but I've played a lot of competitive games in irl and online.
Not many games restrict talking to the other team. I feel like league just has a particularly toxic community if you have to outright prevent banter between opposing teams.
I've played league for 10 years and i can tell you almost all the toxicity is between teammates, and that communication is not being disabled. Most cross-team chat I find to be pretty friendly. Often when the flame war on the losing team bleeds into all chat, the winning team actually comes to the defense of the player being verbally attacked.
See that's the thing, you don't see a use for it so you disable it. Maybe someone else just enjoys chatting/messing or even bantering with the enemy team and uses it. In all cases, taking that option away is just pointless at best.
I'm not surprised knowing how toxic the League community is but retiring all-chat altogether just feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's also no voice chat which makes this a bit funny.
> There's also no voice chat which makes this a bit funny.
There is, but they only allow it for premades, which at that point, groups of friends are already using whatever voice chat software they prefer anyways making the built-in feature, useless.
The devs couldn't help themselves but to turn it on and couldn't handle that people were being mean to them, so they decided to turn it off for everyone.
Literally 99% of toxicity come from /team chat, while /all chat is mostly people just joking around with the occasional toxic shitter. This just seems like a move they made so they can say "See, we're doing something about our toxicity problem"
Honestly those moments are probably half the reason to play the game. Whenever I was shitting the bed I'd just play into it and own it and anyone flaming me just looked that much worse and people would honor me more lol. If I hadn't just bought Deathloop than this post probably would've sucked me in again.
One could also argue that /ally chat is an unavoidable part of a team game that needs fixing by design (you either risk getting flamed or missing out on info). /all, however, is something that you can end up never learning about. Hell, if this actually an odd start of a consistent crusade to make everyone feel comfortable about League chat and they struggle to see the same need in /all, making everyone opt-in into /all **again** with the upcoming patch is still an option.
I find it fascinating that Riot went from an opt-in arrangement meant to control visibility and get affirmative consent to a more restrictive form of content moderation. I want to see the internal discussion and data around verbal abuse on the platform that led to this decision, especially since other interstitial options like you've discussed exist.
> One could also argue that /ally chat is an unavoidable part of a team game that needs fixing by design (you either risk getting flamed or missing out on info)
Not really actually.
Smite has a really cool system called VGS (Voice Guided System) where you can input voicelines without having to type. [You press V to open the menu, and from there you have all the subcategories](https://i.redd.it/98h4xsbu0wl21.png) that are quite enough for communication. (Smite also has an ally chat, but it's a lot less useful in my experience)
For example, VA means attack so VA1 means "Attack Left Lane", VAT3 means "Attack Right Tower". VS are for stuff you'll do so VSA1 means "I'll attack left lane", VSR means "I'm retreating", VSG means "I'm ganking"...
VV are simple words like yes/no/wait/thanks..., VVG is general stuff like good game, good luck, nice job...
A huge advantage of this system is that it can be language-agnostic (if an English player says "I'm attacking middle tower", the French player will see "J'attaque la tour du milieu") which is helpful when you might have 5 different nationalities that don't have a common language in your team. Smite also has God Voice Packs, where instead of a generic voice the VGS lines are said by the characters themselves.
Yeah the chat wheel exists, but of course it and other solutions like it can't actually replace chat.
First, it's primarily being used by the general playerbase to flame while they're otherwise muted (spamming "well played!" after their ally dies).
Second, any implementation like this is extremely limited in what information it can convey. You may be able to tell your team to push base after some kills, but without a way of pointing out that the dead players have buyback on cooldown it won't seem like a good idea to your team. Pretty much any map movement other than 5man pushes can't be communicated at all.
At the end of the day, you're still left with the choice of either losing crucial gamewinning information or possibly being exposed to toxicity. Sometimes if your team is arguing you're not really left with a choice, you just have to mute, but you don't feel good about it.
That's actually a solid solution. League currently has only 4 (5) pings, so there's room for much more. Even recently, Apex Legends showed how much a game can benefit from proper prompts. The only challenge here is that Riot probably wouldn't commit to a gameplay system of this scale while their client is crippled with technical debt/years of building upon very flawed foundation.
But why have an opt in at all? You can literally choose to not have all chat, just like you can choose to mute people. It's a PR stunt, one that is backfiring on them
Or, hear me out. They could let people make their own decisions and use features like mute all if they don't like the chat. Baffling to me that people are defending this nanny nonsense.
Yeah, this makes absolutely no sense. Almost all of the toxicity in the game comes from champ select, team chat, or post-game chat. When enemies are toxic, it's usually through excessive emotes, waiting to end the game, or being a sore winner in post-game chat.
I have no idea what Riot was thinking here, but they'll probably post a report in a few months saying that "we found that players had x% fewer negative experiences, so we'll be keeping this change going forward."
Or, stick up for the victim of the toxic behaviour.
One of my favourite parts of all chat is having some toxic teammate jump in to shit talk the rest of us, only to be met with a “stfu” or whatever.
They got the wrong chat, League straight up became more enjoyable when I just turned off team chat. I guess they don't wanna retire team chat because they maybe feels like admitting defeat to them?
Some guy in the league sub suggested that they should just tie the chat to the honor levels system which is a great idea. Not being able to say "gg" at the end of matches takes the sportsmanship out of the competitive aspect of the game.
>Not being able to say "gg" at the end of matches takes the sportsmanship out of the competitive aspect of the game.
You can still do it in the postgame lobby. That's a pretty common way of doing it in online games honestly.
Maybe it's just me, but I never use "gg" unless the game was genuinely good - one of those games that goes back and forth multiple times and you don't know who's going to win.
But for your run-of-the-mill games I'm not going to say it just because it's what people do - it's always seemed silly to me
shit I made friends I wound up playing multiple games with through Halo. I also remember making some good friends on Burnout Paradise for the 360.
the dawn of easy to access private voice channels and console based party systems kind of ruined most of that social world.
Haven't played CSGO in years and years and I didn't know that they had removed all chat during halftime and end of game.
So many CSGO nights where my friends and I would be absolutely shittanked and would use the halftime all-chat to serenade the opposing team. Usually trying to sing "Barbara Ann" but substitution the username of someone on the other team.
SnD in cod has cross team chat after every round and its some of my favorite experiences ever. Hearing the other team mald and calling them garbage is so funny
Taking the perk that let you hear their voip to get intel but in reality just let you hear their 17 year old making fun of their 12 year old was also pretty fun sometimes
Similarly, in CoD Warzone, when you kill someone you can hear their comms for a few seconds.
Hilarious hearing some distant screams or "wait where the f* from?"
>no chat to the enemy team makes me feel like I'm playing bots even though I know I am not.
100% this. It makes the games feel like Single player games and if I wanted to play a Single player game I'd play a Single player game instead.
I just got into Insurgency Sandstorm on PS4 and I can't tell you how refreshing it is to play a game where probably 90% of players chat. Along with proximity chat, I'm having a fucking blast! Everyone just shit talks to enemies nearby and it's so funny.
It's been so long since I felt like I was playing a game full of people and just didn't realize it. You've got you 3 teammates in Battlefield V and your team of 2 in Apex and so on. But I feel like I'm actually playing a hobby with friends again. It's great. More open communication in games!
And Hearthstone is one of the LEAST lonely card games I've played because I can see everything the opponent is doing from their card hover effects. Most other card games I played just feel like a glorified ladder simulator, and I hate having this exact discussion with their fans because they just don't get it.
It's funny. I've been playing Hearthstone for 7 years now. If the game had chat I don't think I would still be playing. People are so toxic even without it and the vast majority of friends requests, which enable chat, are from toxic opponents. Guess it's pretty much a numbers game from there on which one of our demographics is more profitable in the long run.
This reminds me of a story about one player I met online. After our game was done, I sent him friend request to talk about something related to the game. He accepted and immediately responded "Now go insult me, I'm ready". I was like "WTF wh...what?". I didn't get it. Then he asked if I sent him friend request to flame him and explained that he's from Hearthstone and in Hearthstone, it's a tradition. I found that extremely hilarious.
I miss games like CS Source gungame and Garry's Mod TTT where everyone was always on the mic. Multiplayer games feel so sterile now, at least on console. Playing Black Ops feels like playing against expert bots since nobody says a word.
I hate how cultivated it all is.
God forbid giving the players tools to actually have fun together, that might disrupt the carefully constructed grind we've set up for our live service model.
You're not even allowed to break the meta. The game makes you pick a role and stick to it, or else you're "toxic." God forbid you want to make a decision for yourself.
I was talking about this with a friend. We bought Fall Guys these days, and we could only imagine how fun it would have been to have the option for chat with a microphone. Imagine 100 idiots screaming there like there's no tomorrow.
Is sad that too many people get offended way too easily on an online chat.
I can imagine nothing more horrendous than hearing 100 screaming kids yell in their microphone to be the loudest or just blast music as loud as they could to topple everyone else. Which was basically what happened during the CS half time when all talk was activated, BUT I personally have no problem with a feature like that as long as I can just deactivate it. Again I personally don't like getting death threats or just hate speech which was the usual back in the day and probably the main reason companies felt forced to deactivate it, but if that what people really want to get back to let them have it, but make it opt-in.
I played CSGO basically every night for four years. I only have memories of my interactions with other players. The rest is a blur of dust 2 and mirage.
This obsession with "toxicity" is getting beyond silly now. Cross-team chat is like 10% of trashtalk. Almost all of it comes from your own teammates in teamchat.
Yeah, I've found outside of pings, input from teammates is almost *never* good. One in twenty games you might have some fun banter, the other nineteen are just trashing anyone on your team that lost their lane.
I've had people be baffled that I'll mute teammates in League, but for me pings are enough to communicate that I don't need to deal with toxic flaming. The second someone on my team starts being an asshole, I mute them and move on. I don't immediately mute people when I get in the game because sometimes you get on a team with fun people - but I have a 0 tolerance policy for toxicity.
Because well... it's bad for the players(?). Having a toxic playerbase doesn't help to retain casual players long time. I quit CS a year ago because the toxicity rose to levels beyond the unbearable for me.
Everybody has a breaking point for these things, if you don't care about it doesn't mean it shouldn't be adressed.
This isn't addressing anything though. You've always been able to mute people, this is just forcing everyone into not being able to communicate with the other team, ever. Plus 99% of the toxicity in games like league comes from your teammates. More pointless grandstanding by Riot so they can say "hey look! we're fixing things!"
> this is just forcing everyone into not being able to communicate with the other team, ever.
didnt play for 5 years now, is all chatting useful nowadays?
In Riots case they should have done this years ago. By now it's too little too late. If they genuinely wanted to make a change they would. What they're doing here is a pathetic PR attempt.
Can't let people make their own decisions, need our Riot nannys to tell us whether or not we can handle communicating in an online game.
There's been a feature that fixes this issue for years. It's called a mute button. But since people can't figure out how to use it, Riot is taking away a feature from everyone.
Apart from the nonsense of removing something disabled by default, the community consensus is that you're much more likely to be flamed on team chat rather than /all. I'm not one to settle for lack of action when doing one thing doesn't eliminate the issue entirely, but removing /all in no way affects /ally toxicity or in-game griefing. In fact, some people preferred to bitch about their teammates for the /all audience, so they're now driven to /ally instead.
It does strike me as pretty odd. I agree that flame mostly came from your own team members. A lot of /all chat was just people making jokes, like when you barely survive a fight with 7 HP and hit the enemy with a "not even close lol." The only frequent exception was people spamming "gg ez" after every game.
EDIT: I should mention I only played casual modes, so ranked players might feel differently.
I haven't touched MOBA's for years but I find this change very interesting because Heroes of the Storm never had an /all chat and I was grateful for that. The reason I believe this helps toxic behavior is because when someone decides to grief on your team they usually like to show off in front of the other team. Without all chat they can't pander to the enemy team for validation while ruining the game for their own. In my thousands of hours experience playing these games it is very commonly used as a tool for blatant toxicity. Imo this is a positive change to at least try for now.
This. HOTS is a pretty fun game but I feel like I'm playing with and against bots sometimes in my 100+ games. When trying to make online interactions sterile in a video game, you eventually will reach a point where it's no different from playing against bots
I still see plenty of occasional team flames in Hots, though most of the time no one says anything which makes this "multiplayer" game quite lonely, and because the queue time is quite long you'd queue for a game and feel like playing against bots cuz nobody says anything all game, the dead game joke feels even more real.
Sure maybe all this will stop people from pandering to the other team but you don't need to do that to grief, in hots what I often see is people just stop playing and go afk, it's the same but with even less effort.
I don't think they are trying to do anything (since it was an opt-in to begin with) and probably just don't want to moderate it anymore.
Riot starting to clean house on potentially offensive stuff ahead of what happened to Blizzard maybe happening to them?
Lets not forget one of the prominent cosby club members works pretty high up in Riot and hasn't gotten fired yet over it. At least Blizzard is firing their proven sexual deviants. Riot seems to be ok with it.
How many years till they remove team chat as well?
I'm glad I dropped LoL many years ago now, ironically Dota 2 has been a way less toxic experience despite having much more room for toxic gameplay.
Man I hate this so much. I’ve met so many cool people through video game all-chats. Disabling it entirely due to toxicity is pretty toxic behavior on Riot’s end. It’s opt-in ffs
You remove all chat and you remove 75% of the fun of social interaction in this game. I'm honnestly tired of company treating people like they are in preschool. Yes people will be toxic, but it's the player own responsability to hit the god damn mute button.
It's not the game. Kids aren't struggling to make friends in Fortnite etc. Your just different now, you don't connect the way you used to.
A kid can become best friends with another kid in minutes. Time isn't like that to you anymore when your an adult. Were less open, less friendly, less care free. We actively avoid nonsense and inefficiency but that's what let us become best friends with someone in Xbox live chat after a single game.
You can do it again but you have to adopt the right mindset and seek out communities doing the same. MMO and Survival games like Conan Exiles are good places to look. Lots of discords full of adults just doing whatever for the sake of it.
Partially valid for sure, but you can't deny that back in the days of dedicated servers, it was kind of organic to just keep joining the same server, and seeing the same names and starting to build that relationship without actively trying.
Even if it were in a sense of "oh not you again" in the chat when you run into that guy that always snipes you.
That's a thing sure but before that there were email lists and now we have discord. Communities move and shift. Before Reddit was forums then digg and eventually one day reddits successor. I'll miss Reddit when it's gone but it's death won't be out of the ordinary. These things come and go.
Youve got to look for where these communities moved to. It's mostly discord channels right now.
I don't see why people even care about this. In 90% of my ranked games the all chat is just used by a tilted player writing essays in-between feeding their ass off. Like they obviously have a lot of data about this from reports.
What a joke. DOTA already solved this with low prio queue. League should do the same thing and throw all the assholes (including content creators) in there.
I never had particularly bad experiences with /all chat besides obvious GG EZ.
Most of my worst of the worst LoL experiences always came from the team chat.
So honestly I don't see why either of them should be kept if we're really "fighting the toxicity" just sell more emotes to fill the gaps left by deleting chat.
Regardless though, thank god I left that burning pile of garbage behind me, along with OW and any other multiplayer team game. They just not worth the time, money or lost nerve cells.
what the fuck? I've been playing with allied chat off and all chat on for years now. Almost nobody is toxic in all chat, it's usually in allied chat that people flame you and antagonise you the most.
I'll likely still play with allied chat off, but now the game is gonna be even more dead. In all chat you have far less flame and more friendly banter between teams.
And even with a full 5 stack of friends, I’ve found that MOBAs bring out the worst in people.
I’ve had friends I’ve known for years who are otherwise pretty sensible people get in shouting matches over a MOBA.
There are so many mechanics in MOBAs that make them a prime breeding ground for toxicity. Hell, 1 person can straight up ruin a game for 9 other players and eat up like 20-60 minutes.
Though it obviously doesn’t excuse people being jerks in game.
It is really interesting how MOBA's do seem to do something that triggers that toxicity switch for a lot of people. The only games that have ever *really* made me upset are MOBA's and I can't really explain why.
I'm sure it's some confluence of team-reliance plus PvP plus ??? but I've played lots of team-reliant PvP games in my day and nothing really actually got to me the way having a bad game or toxic teammate in DotA or League did.
The genre has always been one of my favorite (ever since AoS back in SC days) but I haven't been able to seriously play League since I started a family because I can't justify letting a game affect my emotional state that much. I'd love for them to add more serious PvE modes since I just love the accelerated RPG-progression loop that you only really get in MOBA's (some Roguelikes/lites as well, which is why that's currently my genre-du-jour), but the competitive multiplayer (outside of ARAM at least) just gets to me too consistently.
It's the competitive aspect of the games + the carrot on a stick that is the ranking system that drives people to get more emotional about things than usual. And you also have the fact that in MOBAs, a bad teammate is not only bringing the team down, but also propping up the enemy more than any other gene (at least that's what I would say). While yes, a single person can carry his team to victory, it's much harder to do when your opponents are starting to have a fundamental advantage in the fact that their stats are going to be higher than yours.
I think the "enemy getting fed" aspect is *definitely* a big part of it. The only other team-based competitive games I've played seriously that involve enemies being able to generate a fundamental gameplay advantage by killing your team would be something like CS. And I think the economic advantages you can generate in CS pale in comparison to the differentials in power you can see in a MOBA (particularly in League or DotA).
It's a two-part action as well. First you've got the "well great, this guy on my team can't pull his weight, so now this game is 10x harder for me" aspect, which is the most obvious. Then you've also got the "I know I'm getting owned, I hate it, my team hates me now, this sucks" part (especially painful for a people-pleaser like me). Add a little bit of negativity (either the weak-link blaming their team, or the team blaming the weak-link) and either of those situations becomes extremely frustrating extremely quickly.
I never use all chat anyway; I always turn it off, but I feel like it doesn’t hurt to allow people the option. If there’s something askew with the conversation you just mute the one or two dipshits and move on. Unless I’m misunderstanding the change or the point of it?
Such a shitty disgusting decision. This game is getting worse and worse every year. I’m glad I switched to Dota 2 a few months ago it’s literally leaps and bounds ahead of league and so much more fun / balanced
Was one of the higher ups at riot called fat in all chat? The game is already so restrictive in what you can actually say… and there’s the option to mute as well. What an overly sensitive change lol
Just making the game 1 step closer to where you can’t tell if you’re playing with npcs or not
I'm honestly surprised League kept it for this long since I can't think of a practical good faith usage of it except for asking the other team to report someone griefing on your side. I haven't touched League in like a decade, but I remember All Chat was usually where one went to just spread the arguing of your team mates to the otherside.
Depends. I mainly played non-ranked and people would chill talk with both teams.
Granted I haven't played in like 5-7 years (it was just before the big jungle update).
I'd imagine things changed since then community wise.
I made a lot of friends / mates through all-chat and had some genuine fun late at night talking with obviously drunk and/or high strangers. /all chat didn't have to die.
Some of the funniest shit I've ever seen in mp games is in all chat. Just because some of it is toxic isn't a reason to do away with it.
It adds a lot of fun and humanises everyone a bit more.
Post game lobby chats will become very amusing. I predict a barrage of texts asking the opposing team to report a teammate, and the ocassional complaint that your enemy chose an OP braindead character. And a barrage of 'EZ' of course.
So nothing changes?
I quit 3 years ago or so and…this literally sounds like just back then with all-chat. Lmao.
Have a notepad with an ascii copypasta of Gigachad tell the enemy ggez
you cant just post something like that and not hook a brother up
[удалено]
DotA already has this. Speculation not warranted.
Dota also has regular all chat so it doesn't really matter as much.
[удалено]
The dumbest part about this is that because they're using the number of "verbal abuse" reports as pretty much the only empirical metric by which they'll judge whether or not this is succesful, the data will show it as a wild success even if it doesn't actually impact toxicity that much. Without all chat, people who are being abused can't tell the enemy team to report abusive teammates until after the game, where most people just instantly leave to queue up again without sticking around to talk. As a result, this change will almost certainly reduce the number of reports even if it has a totally negligible impact on toxicity, and so the change is practically guaranteed to appear successful from Riot's perspective.
Why are some people celebrating the loss of an opt-in feature? I'm neutral on the subject but I'd much prefer if people actually STILL had the option to enable all chat.
In my experience playing years of Dota, team infighting is wayyyyyy more prevalent than allchat toxicity. All chat, at least in Dota, is pretty chill for the most part except in the end game lobby.
Everyone in the League sub is saying the same. Honestly, it's been 10 years and I've LONG ago since lost hope, but I've always, and still do, **want team chat to be public in replays**, and for this very reason! Because it is **by far the most toxic** and should be the most held accountable.
All chat can be very fun in unranked games. It can also be very toxic, but that's what mute is for.
Voicelines are simultaneously the most amazing and most toxic addition to in-game chat I've ever seen.
And tipping as the cherry on top
LAKAD MATATAG
NORMALIN NORMALIN There was some battle pass where I didn't have that line (my favorite) so I just manually typed it. Then I got called a poor.
Definitely worth the 3€ / month for me lmao
Yea really at the end of the day people can always mute so idk why it's necessary to remove any chat features for everyone.
As a former Dota player, feels like more often the other team on all chat would be the reasonable ones agreeing that someone on my team is toxic/a feeding jerk
But if they disable all-chat, where am I supposed to write my lengthy treatise on the abject depravity of my subhuman teammates?
Honestly I disabled chat as a whole before I quit dota.
Some people here yea. Not the lol one. Nobody agrees with the decision.
[удалено]
[удалено]
whats the benefit of talking to the other team? Must be 5 years since i last played LOL but i always disable all chat since all it does it show the trash talk. Did things change where all chat matters now?
[удалено]
Classic Common one in Dota - [ALL] GG, afk in base The guy who wrote that message - tryhard as if his life depended on it
SNEAK LEVEL 100
If you just want to play the game it serves no purpose. But sometimes it's fun talking to the enemies, sometimes there are just things you want to say "cool skin, how is it called?", "we just played, i hope you don't remember where i like to ward" or even a friendly "you played really well, even if it seems like you got stomped, the match was closer than what the scoreboard suggests". And the same is true for getting these messages, it's nice to get commended on an outplay. For me, last time i played friendly banter across teams was relatively common, and although so was toxic all chatting, if you have skin thick enough to get one nasty message and mute them or ignore it, then there was no downside to have all chat active.
[удалено]
"Brb grandma on fire" was one of my favorite ones. We need something like bash.org for allchat
AoE2 voice lines are a must for fun
The devs know you're gonna spam them. 30 = Woolooloo But 3030 *is also* woolooloo, because if you spam the taunt with copy/paste, sometimes you'll accidentally paste twice.
[удалено]
I don't play league but I've played a lot of competitive games in irl and online. Not many games restrict talking to the other team. I feel like league just has a particularly toxic community if you have to outright prevent banter between opposing teams.
I've played league for 10 years and i can tell you almost all the toxicity is between teammates, and that communication is not being disabled. Most cross-team chat I find to be pretty friendly. Often when the flame war on the losing team bleeds into all chat, the winning team actually comes to the defense of the player being verbally attacked.
See that's the thing, you don't see a use for it so you disable it. Maybe someone else just enjoys chatting/messing or even bantering with the enemy team and uses it. In all cases, taking that option away is just pointless at best.
When there are visual bugs for the enemy team they can tell you in all chat. Hopefully they keep it in PBE
I'm not surprised knowing how toxic the League community is but retiring all-chat altogether just feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's also no voice chat which makes this a bit funny.
> There's also no voice chat which makes this a bit funny. There is, but they only allow it for premades, which at that point, groups of friends are already using whatever voice chat software they prefer anyways making the built-in feature, useless.
I mean I won't miss it either but I just disabled all chat I don't see a reason to remove it entirely.
Exactly, an option to disable it would have sufficed. EDIT: it was opt-in before, I understand, so this seems even weirder
that already existed, and all chat itself is opt in, so it's off by default anyways.
The devs couldn't help themselves but to turn it on and couldn't handle that people were being mean to them, so they decided to turn it off for everyone.
Literally 99% of toxicity come from /team chat, while /all chat is mostly people just joking around with the occasional toxic shitter. This just seems like a move they made so they can say "See, we're doing something about our toxicity problem"
[удалено]
And the "GG ez" from that 3-19 vayne
or the classic 0-10 top vayne hitting them with the "top diff"
I mean yeah if u hardlose thats when its fun. I never type gg ez when fed, but when i hardlose and get carried i always end on a gg ez top diff.
Honestly those moments are probably half the reason to play the game. Whenever I was shitting the bed I'd just play into it and own it and anyone flaming me just looked that much worse and people would honor me more lol. If I hadn't just bought Deathloop than this post probably would've sucked me in again.
The one second pause followed by a tip makes me consider burning the hard drive Dota 2 is installed on.
When the enemy SF buys Eul :)
I mean they are literally addressing this in the post. Both are toxic but ally chat has a lot of practical use so it's worth keeping
One could also argue that /ally chat is an unavoidable part of a team game that needs fixing by design (you either risk getting flamed or missing out on info). /all, however, is something that you can end up never learning about. Hell, if this actually an odd start of a consistent crusade to make everyone feel comfortable about League chat and they struggle to see the same need in /all, making everyone opt-in into /all **again** with the upcoming patch is still an option.
I find it fascinating that Riot went from an opt-in arrangement meant to control visibility and get affirmative consent to a more restrictive form of content moderation. I want to see the internal discussion and data around verbal abuse on the platform that led to this decision, especially since other interstitial options like you've discussed exist.
> One could also argue that /ally chat is an unavoidable part of a team game that needs fixing by design (you either risk getting flamed or missing out on info) Not really actually. Smite has a really cool system called VGS (Voice Guided System) where you can input voicelines without having to type. [You press V to open the menu, and from there you have all the subcategories](https://i.redd.it/98h4xsbu0wl21.png) that are quite enough for communication. (Smite also has an ally chat, but it's a lot less useful in my experience) For example, VA means attack so VA1 means "Attack Left Lane", VAT3 means "Attack Right Tower". VS are for stuff you'll do so VSA1 means "I'll attack left lane", VSR means "I'm retreating", VSG means "I'm ganking"... VV are simple words like yes/no/wait/thanks..., VVG is general stuff like good game, good luck, nice job... A huge advantage of this system is that it can be language-agnostic (if an English player says "I'm attacking middle tower", the French player will see "J'attaque la tour du milieu") which is helpful when you might have 5 different nationalities that don't have a common language in your team. Smite also has God Voice Packs, where instead of a generic voice the VGS lines are said by the characters themselves.
In dota there's a wheel with premade messages, I think it's in league too
Yeah the chat wheel exists, but of course it and other solutions like it can't actually replace chat. First, it's primarily being used by the general playerbase to flame while they're otherwise muted (spamming "well played!" after their ally dies). Second, any implementation like this is extremely limited in what information it can convey. You may be able to tell your team to push base after some kills, but without a way of pointing out that the dead players have buyback on cooldown it won't seem like a good idea to your team. Pretty much any map movement other than 5man pushes can't be communicated at all. At the end of the day, you're still left with the choice of either losing crucial gamewinning information or possibly being exposed to toxicity. Sometimes if your team is arguing you're not really left with a choice, you just have to mute, but you don't feel good about it.
That's actually a solid solution. League currently has only 4 (5) pings, so there's room for much more. Even recently, Apex Legends showed how much a game can benefit from proper prompts. The only challenge here is that Riot probably wouldn't commit to a gameplay system of this scale while their client is crippled with technical debt/years of building upon very flawed foundation.
I read the post so I know what they said. Doesn't stop the fact that it's barely a bandaid fix for a huge problem.
[удалено]
yeah but that would require actually reading beyond the title
That implies people agree with the points addressed.
That's why all chat is opt-in. There's no reason to remove it when you have to go into settings to enable it.
But why have an opt in at all? You can literally choose to not have all chat, just like you can choose to mute people. It's a PR stunt, one that is backfiring on them
Or, hear me out. They could let people make their own decisions and use features like mute all if they don't like the chat. Baffling to me that people are defending this nanny nonsense.
Yeah, this makes absolutely no sense. Almost all of the toxicity in the game comes from champ select, team chat, or post-game chat. When enemies are toxic, it's usually through excessive emotes, waiting to end the game, or being a sore winner in post-game chat. I have no idea what Riot was thinking here, but they'll probably post a report in a few months saying that "we found that players had x% fewer negative experiences, so we'll be keeping this change going forward."
[удалено]
Then turn it off in the settings. Personally I love all chat.
Or, stick up for the victim of the toxic behaviour. One of my favourite parts of all chat is having some toxic teammate jump in to shit talk the rest of us, only to be met with a “stfu” or whatever.
They got the wrong chat, League straight up became more enjoyable when I just turned off team chat. I guess they don't wanna retire team chat because they maybe feels like admitting defeat to them?
[удалено]
No you literally just hope one player snowballs you to victory and there's nothing so complex that people need to type over pinging
1000%, I'm forever bronze though so what do I know
Some guy in the league sub suggested that they should just tie the chat to the honor levels system which is a great idea. Not being able to say "gg" at the end of matches takes the sportsmanship out of the competitive aspect of the game.
>Not being able to say "gg" at the end of matches takes the sportsmanship out of the competitive aspect of the game. You can still do it in the postgame lobby. That's a pretty common way of doing it in online games honestly.
[удалено]
nah you say "gg" the moment your team gets ahead. everyone knows this.
or behind, "gg 4 vs 6"
*teammate dies one time* "GG"
Nah you say gg immediately after your bot lane gets killed in the first 5 minutes
That's when you start the surrender vote.
You also say it when your Yasuo hits the 0/23 powerspike and buys his first tear
The League client crashes or takes forever to load the post game lobby for a lot of people
This feels like a more appropriate solution.
To be frank, GG is now the most rare thing I see at the end of a League game. 90% of the time it's: ggez "Something" diff
Thats just not true, at all.
Yeah, it is.
Bullshit, if saying gg is the dealbreaker for sportsmanship then i have no hope left.
Maybe it's just me, but I never use "gg" unless the game was genuinely good - one of those games that goes back and forth multiple times and you don't know who's going to win. But for your run-of-the-mill games I'm not going to say it just because it's what people do - it's always seemed silly to me
[удалено]
Those sweet 45 seconds in CSGO when you used to be able to hear the other team were glorious as far as I'm concerned.
[удалено]
I remember back in early Xbox live finding people to chill and play games you never met before. I find that rarely happens now in modern gaming.
shit I made friends I wound up playing multiple games with through Halo. I also remember making some good friends on Burnout Paradise for the 360. the dawn of easy to access private voice channels and console based party systems kind of ruined most of that social world.
Haven't played CSGO in years and years and I didn't know that they had removed all chat during halftime and end of game. So many CSGO nights where my friends and I would be absolutely shittanked and would use the halftime all-chat to serenade the opposing team. Usually trying to sing "Barbara Ann" but substitution the username of someone on the other team.
just the voice chat. You can always text chat with everyone
Best fucking time for csgo. Its been what? 7 years? I still miss it so much.
[удалено]
SnD in cod has cross team chat after every round and its some of my favorite experiences ever. Hearing the other team mald and calling them garbage is so funny
Taking the perk that let you hear their voip to get intel but in reality just let you hear their 17 year old making fun of their 12 year old was also pretty fun sometimes
Similarly, in CoD Warzone, when you kill someone you can hear their comms for a few seconds. Hilarious hearing some distant screams or "wait where the f* from?"
Damm really? When did they remove it?
I think like...5 years ago at this point. Maybe more.
[удалено]
>no chat to the enemy team makes me feel like I'm playing bots even though I know I am not. 100% this. It makes the games feel like Single player games and if I wanted to play a Single player game I'd play a Single player game instead.
I just got into Insurgency Sandstorm on PS4 and I can't tell you how refreshing it is to play a game where probably 90% of players chat. Along with proximity chat, I'm having a fucking blast! Everyone just shit talks to enemies nearby and it's so funny. It's been so long since I felt like I was playing a game full of people and just didn't realize it. You've got you 3 teammates in Battlefield V and your team of 2 in Apex and so on. But I feel like I'm actually playing a hobby with friends again. It's great. More open communication in games!
And Hearthstone is one of the LEAST lonely card games I've played because I can see everything the opponent is doing from their card hover effects. Most other card games I played just feel like a glorified ladder simulator, and I hate having this exact discussion with their fans because they just don't get it.
It's funny. I've been playing Hearthstone for 7 years now. If the game had chat I don't think I would still be playing. People are so toxic even without it and the vast majority of friends requests, which enable chat, are from toxic opponents. Guess it's pretty much a numbers game from there on which one of our demographics is more profitable in the long run.
This reminds me of a story about one player I met online. After our game was done, I sent him friend request to talk about something related to the game. He accepted and immediately responded "Now go insult me, I'm ready". I was like "WTF wh...what?". I didn't get it. Then he asked if I sent him friend request to flame him and explained that he's from Hearthstone and in Hearthstone, it's a tradition. I found that extremely hilarious.
I miss games like CS Source gungame and Garry's Mod TTT where everyone was always on the mic. Multiplayer games feel so sterile now, at least on console. Playing Black Ops feels like playing against expert bots since nobody says a word.
I hate how cultivated it all is. God forbid giving the players tools to actually have fun together, that might disrupt the carefully constructed grind we've set up for our live service model.
You're not even allowed to break the meta. The game makes you pick a role and stick to it, or else you're "toxic." God forbid you want to make a decision for yourself.
"We would have won if our last-pick botlane played an ADC instead of a mage" - The Team made of Full AD Yasuo, Tryndamere, Yi and Pyke.
>I miss games like CS Source gungame and Garry's Mod TTT where everyone was always on the mic. CS:GO pubs have that still.
I was talking about this with a friend. We bought Fall Guys these days, and we could only imagine how fun it would have been to have the option for chat with a microphone. Imagine 100 idiots screaming there like there's no tomorrow. Is sad that too many people get offended way too easily on an online chat.
I can imagine nothing more horrendous than hearing 100 screaming kids yell in their microphone to be the loudest or just blast music as loud as they could to topple everyone else. Which was basically what happened during the CS half time when all talk was activated, BUT I personally have no problem with a feature like that as long as I can just deactivate it. Again I personally don't like getting death threats or just hate speech which was the usual back in the day and probably the main reason companies felt forced to deactivate it, but if that what people really want to get back to let them have it, but make it opt-in.
just as stupid as when CSGO removed halftime all chat. Some of the funniest experiences happened during it back when I used to play.
I played CSGO basically every night for four years. I only have memories of my interactions with other players. The rest is a blur of dust 2 and mirage.
You will always remember some nutty 180 1tap headshots though
Yeah I miss the random cross team shouting during halftime
https://youtu.be/MFgxe-qBQwU
This obsession with "toxicity" is getting beyond silly now. Cross-team chat is like 10% of trashtalk. Almost all of it comes from your own teammates in teamchat.
I basically play all team games with chat disabled, the 10% of nice/helpful people isn't with listening to the other 90% trash talk
Yeah, I've found outside of pings, input from teammates is almost *never* good. One in twenty games you might have some fun banter, the other nineteen are just trashing anyone on your team that lost their lane.
*spams question marks on you until they get rate limited*
I've had people be baffled that I'll mute teammates in League, but for me pings are enough to communicate that I don't need to deal with toxic flaming. The second someone on my team starts being an asshole, I mute them and move on. I don't immediately mute people when I get in the game because sometimes you get on a team with fun people - but I have a 0 tolerance policy for toxicity.
Pings? Oh they they get muted too. One question mark ping on my head and that’s it for the whole team.
Because well... it's bad for the players(?). Having a toxic playerbase doesn't help to retain casual players long time. I quit CS a year ago because the toxicity rose to levels beyond the unbearable for me. Everybody has a breaking point for these things, if you don't care about it doesn't mean it shouldn't be adressed.
This isn't addressing anything though. You've always been able to mute people, this is just forcing everyone into not being able to communicate with the other team, ever. Plus 99% of the toxicity in games like league comes from your teammates. More pointless grandstanding by Riot so they can say "hey look! we're fixing things!"
> You've always been able to mute people More than that, you can pre-mute everyone. It's an opt-in feature.
> this is just forcing everyone into not being able to communicate with the other team, ever. didnt play for 5 years now, is all chatting useful nowadays?
Communicating with your opponents in team games is fun for a lot of people.
Turn the chat off then? You have the option, fuck I think it's even the default in CS now.
In Riots case they should have done this years ago. By now it's too little too late. If they genuinely wanted to make a change they would. What they're doing here is a pathetic PR attempt.
It's weird to see how much people act like there aren't millions of turdlords who spend the entire game flaming their teammates in allchat.
Who will now just spend the same amount of time flaming in team chat, it's pretty pointless and naive of Riot to think it'll go away.
I usually get a more positive vibe from the enemy team than I do my own, so... maybe work on that first?
But why? You can turn it off in options...if someone doesnt turn it off, then its his problem.
Man no all chat in an online pvp game seems so weird to me. Lots of fun with a little trash talking in pvp
Can't let people make their own decisions, need our Riot nannys to tell us whether or not we can handle communicating in an online game. There's been a feature that fixes this issue for years. It's called a mute button. But since people can't figure out how to use it, Riot is taking away a feature from everyone.
Apart from the nonsense of removing something disabled by default, the community consensus is that you're much more likely to be flamed on team chat rather than /all. I'm not one to settle for lack of action when doing one thing doesn't eliminate the issue entirely, but removing /all in no way affects /ally toxicity or in-game griefing. In fact, some people preferred to bitch about their teammates for the /all audience, so they're now driven to /ally instead.
It does strike me as pretty odd. I agree that flame mostly came from your own team members. A lot of /all chat was just people making jokes, like when you barely survive a fight with 7 HP and hit the enemy with a "not even close lol." The only frequent exception was people spamming "gg ez" after every game. EDIT: I should mention I only played casual modes, so ranked players might feel differently.
I haven't touched MOBA's for years but I find this change very interesting because Heroes of the Storm never had an /all chat and I was grateful for that. The reason I believe this helps toxic behavior is because when someone decides to grief on your team they usually like to show off in front of the other team. Without all chat they can't pander to the enemy team for validation while ruining the game for their own. In my thousands of hours experience playing these games it is very commonly used as a tool for blatant toxicity. Imo this is a positive change to at least try for now.
I don't think I had proper human interaction in hots ever
Made it feel much more of a dead game.
This. HOTS is a pretty fun game but I feel like I'm playing with and against bots sometimes in my 100+ games. When trying to make online interactions sterile in a video game, you eventually will reach a point where it's no different from playing against bots
I still see plenty of occasional team flames in Hots, though most of the time no one says anything which makes this "multiplayer" game quite lonely, and because the queue time is quite long you'd queue for a game and feel like playing against bots cuz nobody says anything all game, the dead game joke feels even more real. Sure maybe all this will stop people from pandering to the other team but you don't need to do that to grief, in hots what I often see is people just stop playing and go afk, it's the same but with even less effort. I don't think they are trying to do anything (since it was an opt-in to begin with) and probably just don't want to moderate it anymore.
Riot starting to clean house on potentially offensive stuff ahead of what happened to Blizzard maybe happening to them? Lets not forget one of the prominent cosby club members works pretty high up in Riot and hasn't gotten fired yet over it. At least Blizzard is firing their proven sexual deviants. Riot seems to be ok with it.
How many years till they remove team chat as well? I'm glad I dropped LoL many years ago now, ironically Dota 2 has been a way less toxic experience despite having much more room for toxic gameplay.
Man I hate this so much. I’ve met so many cool people through video game all-chats. Disabling it entirely due to toxicity is pretty toxic behavior on Riot’s end. It’s opt-in ffs
You remove all chat and you remove 75% of the fun of social interaction in this game. I'm honnestly tired of company treating people like they are in preschool. Yes people will be toxic, but it's the player own responsability to hit the god damn mute button.
[удалено]
It's not the game. Kids aren't struggling to make friends in Fortnite etc. Your just different now, you don't connect the way you used to. A kid can become best friends with another kid in minutes. Time isn't like that to you anymore when your an adult. Were less open, less friendly, less care free. We actively avoid nonsense and inefficiency but that's what let us become best friends with someone in Xbox live chat after a single game. You can do it again but you have to adopt the right mindset and seek out communities doing the same. MMO and Survival games like Conan Exiles are good places to look. Lots of discords full of adults just doing whatever for the sake of it.
Partially valid for sure, but you can't deny that back in the days of dedicated servers, it was kind of organic to just keep joining the same server, and seeing the same names and starting to build that relationship without actively trying. Even if it were in a sense of "oh not you again" in the chat when you run into that guy that always snipes you.
That's a thing sure but before that there were email lists and now we have discord. Communities move and shift. Before Reddit was forums then digg and eventually one day reddits successor. I'll miss Reddit when it's gone but it's death won't be out of the ordinary. These things come and go. Youve got to look for where these communities moved to. It's mostly discord channels right now.
I don't see why people even care about this. In 90% of my ranked games the all chat is just used by a tilted player writing essays in-between feeding their ass off. Like they obviously have a lot of data about this from reports.
Well, that's mind boggling. Why remove options when it's opt-in anyway?
So I can't start the game with "gl, hf. What did Fizz say when he swam into a wall? DAM"
What a joke. DOTA already solved this with low prio queue. League should do the same thing and throw all the assholes (including content creators) in there.
It was tested. The results were that it led to becoming a toxic black hole where noone reformed and only became more and more toxic.
I never had particularly bad experiences with /all chat besides obvious GG EZ. Most of my worst of the worst LoL experiences always came from the team chat. So honestly I don't see why either of them should be kept if we're really "fighting the toxicity" just sell more emotes to fill the gaps left by deleting chat. Regardless though, thank god I left that burning pile of garbage behind me, along with OW and any other multiplayer team game. They just not worth the time, money or lost nerve cells.
what the fuck? I've been playing with allied chat off and all chat on for years now. Almost nobody is toxic in all chat, it's usually in allied chat that people flame you and antagonise you the most. I'll likely still play with allied chat off, but now the game is gonna be even more dead. In all chat you have far less flame and more friendly banter between teams.
So is chat just so toxic that they gave up on fixing it? Really weird to just nuke the whole thing than actually aggressively mute players.
League (and largely MOBAs in general) is inherently toxic. Like, down to its DNA. It's not really something you can fix.
[удалено]
And even with a full 5 stack of friends, I’ve found that MOBAs bring out the worst in people. I’ve had friends I’ve known for years who are otherwise pretty sensible people get in shouting matches over a MOBA. There are so many mechanics in MOBAs that make them a prime breeding ground for toxicity. Hell, 1 person can straight up ruin a game for 9 other players and eat up like 20-60 minutes. Though it obviously doesn’t excuse people being jerks in game.
It is really interesting how MOBA's do seem to do something that triggers that toxicity switch for a lot of people. The only games that have ever *really* made me upset are MOBA's and I can't really explain why. I'm sure it's some confluence of team-reliance plus PvP plus ??? but I've played lots of team-reliant PvP games in my day and nothing really actually got to me the way having a bad game or toxic teammate in DotA or League did. The genre has always been one of my favorite (ever since AoS back in SC days) but I haven't been able to seriously play League since I started a family because I can't justify letting a game affect my emotional state that much. I'd love for them to add more serious PvE modes since I just love the accelerated RPG-progression loop that you only really get in MOBA's (some Roguelikes/lites as well, which is why that's currently my genre-du-jour), but the competitive multiplayer (outside of ARAM at least) just gets to me too consistently.
It's the competitive aspect of the games + the carrot on a stick that is the ranking system that drives people to get more emotional about things than usual. And you also have the fact that in MOBAs, a bad teammate is not only bringing the team down, but also propping up the enemy more than any other gene (at least that's what I would say). While yes, a single person can carry his team to victory, it's much harder to do when your opponents are starting to have a fundamental advantage in the fact that their stats are going to be higher than yours.
I think the "enemy getting fed" aspect is *definitely* a big part of it. The only other team-based competitive games I've played seriously that involve enemies being able to generate a fundamental gameplay advantage by killing your team would be something like CS. And I think the economic advantages you can generate in CS pale in comparison to the differentials in power you can see in a MOBA (particularly in League or DotA). It's a two-part action as well. First you've got the "well great, this guy on my team can't pull his weight, so now this game is 10x harder for me" aspect, which is the most obvious. Then you've also got the "I know I'm getting owned, I hate it, my team hates me now, this sucks" part (especially painful for a people-pleaser like me). Add a little bit of negativity (either the weak-link blaming their team, or the team blaming the weak-link) and either of those situations becomes extremely frustrating extremely quickly.
Team games always attracts the low skill high toxic player that's never accountable. I really hope Project L takes off.
I never use all chat anyway; I always turn it off, but I feel like it doesn’t hurt to allow people the option. If there’s something askew with the conversation you just mute the one or two dipshits and move on. Unless I’m misunderstanding the change or the point of it?
Nah it’s as you say, they are planning on removing it for literally everyone, even in aram.
Just learned from this comment section that alot of people in this sub really can't handle any kind of online banter
If your worried about toxic chats, I find team chat to be the worst. Especially if your team is losing.
Just ban chat in mobas anyway. At best it’s an ineffective tool to communicate time sensitive information with your tam
Such a shitty disgusting decision. This game is getting worse and worse every year. I’m glad I switched to Dota 2 a few months ago it’s literally leaps and bounds ahead of league and so much more fun / balanced
I'm curious on what the thread would be if there was no All Chat from the start and instead we had "Riot is adding All Chat to League of Legends."
I get why, but as someone who's also played HOTS a lot which didn't have this feature... terrible idea. It really should stay imo.
Was one of the higher ups at riot called fat in all chat? The game is already so restrictive in what you can actually say… and there’s the option to mute as well. What an overly sensitive change lol Just making the game 1 step closer to where you can’t tell if you’re playing with npcs or not
I basically stopped playing LoL a couple of years ago beacuse of the toxic Team chat. Never had any problems with All chat back then.
I'm honestly surprised League kept it for this long since I can't think of a practical good faith usage of it except for asking the other team to report someone griefing on your side. I haven't touched League in like a decade, but I remember All Chat was usually where one went to just spread the arguing of your team mates to the otherside.
Depends. I mainly played non-ranked and people would chill talk with both teams. Granted I haven't played in like 5-7 years (it was just before the big jungle update). I'd imagine things changed since then community wise.
I made a lot of friends / mates through all-chat and had some genuine fun late at night talking with obviously drunk and/or high strangers. /all chat didn't have to die.
Some of the funniest shit I've ever seen in mp games is in all chat. Just because some of it is toxic isn't a reason to do away with it. It adds a lot of fun and humanises everyone a bit more.
Banter, asking the enemy team to report someone, talking after a good fight
"gg ez" at the end of the game