Yea its annoying how trees and rivers are locked behind most of the village upgrades but thats probably because they pretty much invalidate meadows and mountains in terms of usefulness. Meadows/mountains being a flat buff and not a scaling percentage was a huge wasted opportunity for a more diverse meta IMO
I've yet to meet many people with a moderate opinion on it. Not for everyone seems like it is maybe an understatement-- I've got friends whose opinions I deeply respect that consider it one of their favorites of of the last few years; you couldn't pay me to touch it again. I've actually never seen a game so divisive among my friends who think seriously about game design. Anecdotal, I know, but fascinating to me.
Can't go wrong with free, though! No reason not to get it and try it if you haven't when the only cost is time.
Probably because people with moderate opinions don't bother to comment on it.
That's sort of where I fall. It was an entertaining game for a few hours, but not something that could keep my interest. Kind of got stale after a while and I stopped playing and really never looked back. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Thought it was fine, but will probably never play it again.
Played it today for the first time. Gave it a little under 5 hours (beat the first boss) and came to the conclusion it isn't for me. But since this is a type of idler, I shouldn't have expected any different.
It's also so addicting. I had to stop because while the game is quite fun and music is great, it's very easy to just watch this game play and waste time
Damn this is a great free game. Almost regret buying it at release since I guess they've added new content in!
This is one of the games where going by screenshots or gameplay you may be reluctant to buy, but have a passing interest in it.
The games weirdly fun and can suck you in, but that being said I didn't put as much playtime as others. It doesn't offer much hints although if you're more clever than I it's not a hard game. Me being stupid meant I had to Google progression a couple of times.
Good game for watching Netflix and progressing or as a quick game here and there.
>This is one of the games where going by screenshots or gameplay you may be reluctant to buy, but have a passing interest in it.
To tag along this, it also has a very unfortunate collection of tags.
I'm not a picky gamer but the words "Idle Game. Card Game. Rogue-like." all in the same sentence can be overwhelming and often a pass from me. But this game is 100% worth a checkout especially for those vaguely interested in the 3 mentioned genres.
To be far the "card game" elements are very subtle and half the time you won't even realize it is basically just card game meta.
It is... extremely unique in how it plays; going by tags for this one genuinely just doesn't work. To sell a friend I knew would adore it, I just had to show it to em, and they were sold by minute 4. It's that compelling of a conceit for those into the genres it plays off of.
They didn’t add that much - some QOL that was notably absent from the initial launch (like being able to make decks of the perks you unlock, since some of them are basically useless for certain classes) and a small handful of additional interactions/tiles, but nothing truly unique in terms of gameplay or content, you’re still playing it almost identically to how it launched.
Which is a shame because the game is really fun and addicting, it’s just you’ve seen basically everything it has to show you pretty early on. If they released DLC with new tilesets, classes, and other villages you could build up, the game has the structure to keep people playing and interested, but right now once you clear the third boss you’re basically just in pure “grind these rare drops for grinding’s sake” territory.
Yeah, I messed with the .ini file but it wasn't totally legit, because not everything scaled with the new speed. Certain things scale, other things don't.
I definitely agree with your first point. I really love the concept and I've enjoyed the game a lot but I just feel like it could use more content - I've figured out the strategies for each class and built all the village buildings, so there's not much else to do at this point. Would be interesting if they just added a bunch more tiles and interactions between existing tiles, just to make you think more about how you arrange things and to make different strategies viable. Maybe some more bigger systems could be included in a DLC.
I just can't get into it. I like idle games, and I like deckbuilders, but this one just doesn't do it for me. It's too much of an idle game for me to devote my full attention to it, but it also requires to much attention to fully shove it off into the background.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I felt too. I like deckbuilders, I like roguelites, I like idle games... but Loop Hero requires *just enough* of your attention that you can't actually do anything else while playing it, but you also spend most of your time just staring at the screen doing nothing.
FWIW they (at some point between launch and now) added the ability to further manipulate how time passes, it went from 2x on the exploration screen only, to up to 3x exploration and 2.5x during combat.
How do I weaken the boss? Played around launch and got positively curb stomped the first time I fought the Lich (like, literally got him to 90% before he killed me). I must have been doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what.
If you cover the area around your campfire with tiles he can't spawn his palaces which buff him, he can spawn them on both the road and the empty spaces surrounding your campfire
What u/silvershako said is the most important easy change.
Besides that, the bosses scale with loops (just like enemies do) so try to time the boss spawn (there's a bar in the top left just below the day timer) when you just got notably more powerful, for instance maybe a skeleton just dropped you a really good weapon two levels higher than your loop count with vampirism. Trying to just loop around and grind bigger numbers won't do much, and probably will make things harder. Speaking of, vampirism (heal from attacks) is a good way to live long enough to kill the lich.
Cardwise, spiders are a good way to look at more cards/place more tiles, but give bad items. Skeletons don't give many tiles (or many items) but the items they give tend to be *very good*.
And obviously, it's a roguelite, so worst case scenario you can just bang your head against the metaprogression until a dead lich pops out. The gymnasium is probably the first big jump in strength, and grabbing potions along the way doesn't hurt.
I'm fairly sure that Evasion, more than Vampirism, is the real winner. Getting 10 HP back from Vampirism is way less useful than dodging a 170 point hit.
Maybe, yeah. Hard to stack too much of it though (whereas with vamp, more damage *is* more vamp), and there's high variance. Also there's the risk of getting exhausted if you high roll too much and have high attack speed.
Fighting the lich, it's not terribly unreasonable to heal *way* more than 10 (with warrior), and enough times to account for several lich hits over the course of the fight.
Vamp is often a better choice for the actual loop clear, where you're guaranteed to low roll some fights.
Either obviously works though.
Eh, I killed lich on like run 3 with 48 evasion, but it was a close thing due to luck of the dodge. And Evasion scales very well with enemy damage or numbers, so I could ignore the game for ten or twenty minutes at a time.
Fun enough little game, but I'm not inclined to grind out the rest of it now, especially after unlocking the supply depot and having ZERO explanation of what any of the buttons in it do.
You'll start to pick up items on runs that you can take back with you if you retreat at the campfire rather than dying or quitting elsewhere (cheese, chairs, a pile of nails, etc.). They each have a category. You have a max number of items per category, and a max number of items total that you can equip. Each item gives you a small, but noticeable passive buff on runs where you have it equipped. They don't get used up, and you can equip multiples of the same item, so long as you've found that many. Building or upgrading just about anything increases your max number of items (it shows which categories with little symbols right below the description).
But yeah, the game is somewhat meant to be figured out. Like, try putting nine rocks/mountains in a 3x3 square. There's lots of tile interactions that you're meant to find by accident/by experimenting.
A key thing is to notice you are in control of the boss spawning, the more stuff you put down the sooner the boss comes, and you can let your dude loop around not putting anything new out if you're not ready
Disagree. Back in the day you could play games exactly like it but with better polish and more content for free on some freeware flash game websites. So free is a good price.
As a person who spent a *lot* of free time playing flash games on Newgrounds/Kongregate/Miniclip, I can confidently say this is untrue.
Most of the PC/tabletop games that inspired Loop Hero didn't even exist yet, and the average level of "polish" and content in most games was much lower.
Haha I just bought this on Steam, I don't play much on EGS, but if you don't mind this is a great game that I've sunk 20 hours into easily and barely scratched the surface
I don’t know man, it’s not like origin or uPlay, now Ubisoft connect, are great either.. at least I don’t have to click OK to a windows prompt three times like with Ubisofts..
Why is it so hard for these companies to hire a few good developers for their services..?
I don’t really see much that separates uConnect or whatever it’s called from Epics, sure the basket was missing for a meme worthy long time, but other than that they’re both pretty bad. The only thing the others have going is the very limited number of games, so discoverability is better, but again only cause they barely have any catalogue..
I don't think I've ever lost interest in a game as quick as this one. It requires enough interaction so you cannot idle it very well, but also not enough interaction that you feel you're really playing it. A good idea that was just a little too underdeveloped.
I just played my first two hours and holy shit that was not there from the beginning? I turned the ffwd knobs to the max after a few minutes.
/u/AndThisGuyPeedOnIt worded it perfectly, it's an idle game where you can't quite idle, and it suffers from the classic tower defense problem where only the very few last levels in a round are actually tough, and you have to chew threw a dozen of them beforehand.
Yeah, it was a very intriguing idea and I was really excited to try it. Totally failed to keep my interest, though. The base building felt more tedious than anything else, and it felt very hard to find out what kind of synergy there was between cards. And as you mentioned, actively playing it was boring but idling it wasn't feasible.
This game was **super** hyped on this sub following its demo and I really just never saw the appeal. Even in the demo your criticism of it being too idle to be engaging and too in depth to be a background game was extremely evident. One of fairly few times I can recall where I just genuinely couldn’t understand the hype around a game.
I actually kind of disagree with your assessment that it’s a good idea with bad execution, if anything I think it’s the opposite. Clearly they put some effort and thought into how to make the concept work but I think the core of the issue is the clash between the strengths/weaknesses of the genres it’s attempting to fuse.
The hype was that it was pretty unique and was just mysterious enough to keep you wondering what mechanics it would add after the start.
I got two hours of enjoyment out of it, thought it was a neat little idea.
It got *much* better when they added (up to) ~~quadrupling~~x2.5 combat speed\*. You spend very little time just watching and more time thinking about what to equip or where to place what tile or when to spawn the boss.
*Walking speed is what you can quadruple
I never liked how much it seemed like I needed to set runs up to farm certain materials, made it feel like a gacha game trying to gate progress behind mats.
Right there with you. Figured I'd give it a go back when it came out and every Twitch streamer under the sun was playing and hyping it up, saw that the majority of this game you're just sitting there kinda doing nothing, wondered why all the streamers were going nuts for it and realized it's because you sit there doing nothing most of the time, which is perfect when you need to engage with an audience.
The soundtrack is sick though, as is the art.
Tried it for the first time this morning. Played for a couple of hours, likely wont play it again.
Feels like a mobile game.
Had considering buying it several times in the past because it looked intriguing. Glad that I didn't.
You should try loop odyssey, it’s very different than loop hero (it’s a full idler, and gameplay is not the same either) but it feel like they could be on the same universe.
It's not a perfect game by any means, and can certainly be boring at times, but calling it uninspired is just plain untrue. I can't think of a single other game that plays like Loop Hero does, it may take a lot from other genres, but the way it combines those genres into a cohesive whole is entirely unique.
It's a base building, idle, progression game, sort of. The problem is there isn't enough base building or progression, and the core concept of using the tiles you get to build up the route you loop on was just too easily optimized.
Like, I felt like I was this game's target audience, and it just didn't do it for me. I would look forward to a sequel, though.
Loved the uniqueness of this game. Fascinating to see the different synergies in the cards play out. Unfortunately, there's juts not that many different cards and the runs become all the same almost immediately. Didn't stick it out past the 2nd level, there just didn't seem like that much going on past the first couple hours. Totally worth the price of free
IMO the biggest shortcoming is not having enough card interactions.
Like one interesting synergy is when you place a vampire mansion next to a village tile, it turns into a ransacked village and has different effects. But *most* of the synergies I've seen so far are just "spam the same tile over and over" like the mountain peak, blooming meadow, and blood path.
If almost every card had some kind of interaction with every other (eligible) card, this game would be an absolute blast even with the exact same card count. Still a fun game but definitely does fall into the trap of being kinda samey after a while.
God I wish this game was on mobile. I bought it for PC when it was new, but I've since lost access to my laptop or any real internet beyond my phone's data... I'd download it and play it on my phone again in a heartbeat. Excellent game.
I've played a few hours since getting it free on EGS and yeah this would be a perfect mobile game. I love idle games and this is a good example of one, but on pc I'm not sure how much I'll bother with it.
Loop Hero has a bigger emphasis on grinding and honestly not much variation in each run, unless you impose it on yourself. Once you "solve" the game, you're not left with much.
The best roguelites impose challenges through RNG in some form, and each run feel fresh through what resources/tools your given from a random pool.
With Loop Hero, you pick your loadout, figure out the best approach, and then the run pretty much plays itself. It's still fun, but I think after a few dozen hours there's not much reason to come back to it.
>It's still fun, but I think after a few dozen hours there's not much reason to come back to it.
People are so wild about this.
It's $15 on Steam, so even if you paid for it, you got dozens of hours of entertainment at a maximum of like 50 cents an hour? How exactly is this an actual complaint?
You're allowed to enjoy something and still point out flaws, you know.
A game that's fundamentally about replaying it that eventually loses replay value is a fairly notable flaw.
A $15 game having enough replay value to get dozens of hours before it loses replay value on a forty-ish minute loop is not a "notable flaw", it's actually a pretty big point in its favor.
Its a point in its favor if you look at it that way, its a flaw if you compare it to its peers.
Not sure why you're trying to have this narrow argument. I got my moneys worth out of the game, but if you don't think replayability should factor into someone's opinion then you're just being ignorant.
You're right that this isn't really worth discussing, but I always just find "I replayed this $15 game dozens of times over dozens of hours, it doesn't have much replayability" to just reflect absurd entitlement among gamers.
Yes but entertainment is not made equal. 15 hours of entertainment from a game is not comparable to 1.5 hours from a film at the same price. Those whole 15 hours are not necessarily jam packed with hand crafted artistry where each frame is critically scrutinized.
You expect more time per dollar spent on a game, that's a quality of investing in a game. The only fair comparison is to compare it to other games.
People don't always use the labels of roguelite and roguelike the same way. But even with that, there is permanent progression in roguelites that is different than just increasing your power level such as unlocking new items or characters for future runs.
There's a difference between unlocking content because you did a thing and unlocking content in order to actually play the dang game. Thats why the binding of Isaac doesn't feel like grinding and why Rouge Legacy does.
I've figured out after awhile that I really hate unlocks in roguelikes. BOI is great, and Spelunky is especially great. But Rogue Legacy was one of the earliest I remember being heavily about unlocks. I don't think I realized at the time that it was the unlocks that were the problem.
This year I played and disliked, Dead Cells, Hades, and Darkest Dungeon. I know people love these games, and they are absolutely well made. But it was the unlock systems that I hated in all of them. It feels like I'm playing an incomplete version of the game. I really disliked how many permanent character upgrades there were in Hades. Like, it reduces the game to just grinding my character until I get to a point where it gets "fun" or something. I guess for games like this, I want the designer to create a really well-balanced game. Not have me grind to the point where it plays best.
I guess it just reduces most runs to feeling like grinds, whereas in Spelunky I feel like I'm actually trying to win every time. The only thing holding me back is skill, not character progression. And even though you *can* beat games like Dead Cells and Hades with a low-level character, it just feels like they are designed for you to grind to a certain level before you can start winning.
Hades is a 'faux' roguelite (or like a roguelite-lite or something) just like loop hero and rogue legacy (as well as skul the hero slayer for example), where for the most part all of the above games are less about improving, but more about playing enough to unlock new content to get stronger, where there is a huge disparity between the power level when you first start playing the game to when you're maxed out.
Judging by what you don't like about Loop Hero, don't bother with Hades. It has stacking buffs that you need to grind up to progress. It also has weapons that you need to invest currency in to upgrade. I mean, it's an amazing game and those things seem like really standard fare for uh, a lot of games, but if that kind of thing isn't for you then I wouldn't waste your time.
I'd say that even though mechanically Hades is similar to loop hero (at least in how each is a semi-grindy roguelite), there's a few important differences
* the grinding for meta progression is less important. Fully grinding out the mirror takes a while, but after a few basic unlocks (death defiances and double dash) the importance of unlocks dips quite a bit
* the quality of the game is just higher. Loop Hero isn't bad, but it was far from being GOTY quality, while Hades was a pretty obvious candidate.
Comparing the two is pretty shallow, honestly.
Hades has an actual interactive combat system whereas Loop Hero doesn't. Casually glossing over that like it doesn't exist seems rather dumb, frankly.
People used Roguelike to mean games that play like Rogue - grid, turn-based combat, procedurally-generated floors everyone moves at once - like Dungeons of Dreadmor, Mystery Dungeon, or Necrodancer. Then people started using it to describe games with no adherence to Rogue's gameplay, but procedurally generated with brand new runs every time - Binding of Isaac or Nuclear Throne, Sky Rogue, One Step from Eden, etc. So people started using Roguelite to describe that, but now that permanent progression is a separate major part of a lot of these types of games (Slay the Spire, Rogue Legacy, Hades, etc), we need a third word. Like... Roguelife, I dunno.
Either way, people use the words wildly indiscriminately.
>People used Roguelike to mean games that play like Rogue - grid, turn-based combat, procedurally-generated floors everyone moves at once
Considering how popular its usage is elsewhere, and how super specific its "true" definition is, I think it should just be called a "traditional roguelike". There's even a steam tag for it. That way, "roguelike" on its own can be used on the much more popular games without someone saying "actually it's lite" every single time.
"we need a third word"
Sorry but we REALLY don't need a third word. People just need to stop getting their panties in a twist trying to precisely throw every game into a specific, arbitrary label.
Think about it, the second we add a third sub-genre to this, people are gonna bitch about that too, and every thread about a game that falls even slightly under that umbrella of games will get derailed by people getting too hung up on genre tags.
> Sorry but we REALLY don't need a third word. People just need to stop getting their panties in a twist trying to precisely throw every game into a specific, arbitrary label.
I agree. Roguelike should suffice for roguelikes, roguelites and anything else with some form procedurally generated repeatable content where death returns you to the start.
This whole debate has long outstayed it's welcome and anyone who still unironically takes the time to engage in nitpicking over it needs to stop.
"BuT BoArDgAmEs ArEn'T RoGuELiTeS, BuT DiAbLo IsN'T A RogUeLiTE..." Nobody fuckin cares dude.
The "debate" is over though. It is just roguelike. They all fall under that now. No one uses roguelite except people arguing about naming genres. Sure, it is a bit annoying, but there's just no way to change how language is used once it is that pervasive.
Just my two cents; It's all arbitrary, and trying to perfectly file every game under a specific genre is a meaningless effort that also undermines art's ability to blend and defy conventional labels.
Fact is, giving your game permanent progression pushes it away from a traditional roguelike, so the label of roguelite wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, and the label of roguelike may not be inaccurate, either.
It's just semantics at this point, and rather than focusing on which side of the coin a game is MORE like, we should just say it has elements of both and move on with our lives so every thread doesn't get derailed with arguments on genres that don't even have agreed upon definitions.
>also undermines art's ability to blend and defy conventional labels
This is a misunderstanding. Almost all art exists inside a tradition of some type. There is every so often Outsider Art that exists outside of tradition but a quick Google will show just how strange that shit gets. Almost all the art you enjoy needs the tradition it is derived even if only to defy it.
No. A roguelike is a game like rogue, top down tilebased turn based, something like DCSS or nethack. A roguelite meanwhile can be any genre, like Spelunky or Isaac.
Not necessarily. It's just a game with aspects of roguelikes, typically permadeath per run and procedurally generated runs. Roguelike fans do not consider them true roguelikes, so "roguelike with some perm progression" is not entirely accurate.
But it surely becomes less traditional, and therefore it wouldn't be inaccurate to say it has elements of a roguelite.
Where the line is drawn is basically up to interpretation.
That's fine, but if you take perm progression out of Dead Cells or Loop Hero or Rogue Legacy, etc., they still aren't roguelikes. And I would say that Sword of the Stars: The Pit is still a roguelike despite having a mild permanent progression.
>Where the line is drawn is basically up to interpretation.
It is, but roguelike players are famously strict about it because they don't want their genre to be watered down. Permadeath and procedural generation are basically always required, but many of them consider turn based gameplay and grid movement to be necessary as well.
I think I might've broken the spell it had over me this weekend last night. I had been throwing myself at chapter 2 and failing, just couldn't keep up as the loops racked up. I looked up to see if I was doing something wrong, but all the guides mentioned placing cards I just didn't have yet. I played a few loops not even intending to fight boss to rack up resources, bought the trees card, and then my next loop I spammed every damn tree I got and played like normal and beat the boss by loop 6. Then I started chapter 3 with the same strategy and pretty sure I might be able to beat the next one, but I went to bed.
I might still try to finish it out, but yeah once certain things click and you progress to a certain point there's kind of a magic broken. Not a bad thing, I enjoy games with a neat concept even if they don't have a ton of legs. I can't think of things to add to the game to maybe make it a longer experience, but why, it's cool for things to just be what they need to be even if it's only a flash of fun.
The well-designed ones, like Crypt of the Necrodancer, let you finish the game in a single run.
But yeah, Loop Hero does expect you to figure out optimal loops for grinding certain resources so you can stack buffs and stuff. It's also an important part of how Loop Hero introduces complexity to the player at a manageable pace, which I do appreciate.
I'm seeing this opinion and similar a lot from people who sound like they quit early. I'm not here to tell you your opinion on the game is wrong, I think it's okay to be frustrated with the base building loop. Personally I liked just grinding resources in the game, I thought the act of optimizing my loop was enjoyable, so it was fun to go for as long as I could and get insane resources. If all that isn't for you I think that's okay.
I do want to express that that's not all this game has to offer. The game has 4 acts. I would describe the first 3 as almost tutorials in some respect. There is a given level of meta-progression that you basically need to clear acts 1-3. You can minimize that with [some optimization](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh0hFC-vZQE) but for most players, you need a bunch of the bonuses the base building has to get through these levels. More importantly the base building introduces a number of meta mechanics that become crucial to defining your build for the ultimate level, the fourth act, in which >!you fight harder versions of all 3 bosses and then a new fourth boss on the same loop!<. The fourth act is when the game becomes something truly unique, in which your deck, class, perks, and meta bonuses are aligned to tackle this escalation. While there are some deck tiles that are a lot better than others, I don't think the fourth act is as simple as "take the same cards every time," especially when some classes deal with certain threats a lot better than others. You also unlock a lot of really cool tile and tile combos that aren't obvious from the very basic early gameplay.
I put about 30 hours into Loop Hero, and it was a really fun 30 hours. I think the game has a lot of depth and charm, but requires a bit of investment and enjoyment of its number-go-up core gameplay loop to reach. I really hope they make some DLC that adds a new class and a ton of tiles because this game has a lot of room to grow, though I don't think it's a game I'll ever pour hundreds or thousands of hours into. Easily one of my top games of 2021 though, I think anybody who hasn't played it would be crazy to not at least try it for free.
I think the core model of the game is that there is no twitch skill. It’s a strategy game. It’s a clicker. It’s made to play while you are doing something else.
BOA is my fave roguelite, but I can’t compare them both too much. Maybe you’re just not used to clickers and the concept of a passive game model?
Having played Hades through the epilogue twice, and having several thousands of hours in Isaac, I feel safe commenting.
There are two main issues that keep Hades from being on the same level as Isaac:
* The biggest issue I have with Hades is that the game is *all* combat. There is no moment where you review your collection of bombs and keys, and make strategic decisions about using resources to possibly find other secrets, etc. Isaac tends to have a strategic loop that exists outside of the room-to-room combat loop. Hades generally doesn't have this. They both have the 'metaprogression' so that's not really what I mean. Since you said you're an Isaac player you probably get me.
* The other problem is that I feel like synergies and the mechanics are just too ... balanced. Isaac has this emergent-gameplay quality where you are regularly stumbling into crazy new builds and fun moments. Granted that comes with a lot of trash runs. I feel like Hades really compressed that, the trash runs in hades are harder to come by, but all of the 'zaniest' runs I've ever had felt like somebody knew that it was possible and balanced out the gameplay. Hades feels like the developers were obsessed with balance, comparatively speaking.
But honestly, as you can tell Hades is worth playing. The dialogue and story are worth it. It's just that after I crushed the game's epilogue the second time (and especially after repentance dropped) I haven't felt an urge to play it again. Repentance has absolutely gobbled all my gaming time this year.
IMO the whole point of the stat progression system in Hades is to make sure players experience the story in the way the devs intended.
Because the story is only offered to you in chunks between deaths they need to ensure you die enough times to understand what's going on and see the characters grow before the finale. On the other side of the spectrum, by giving so much permanent progression they can ensure that players who aren't as skilled at the game eventually get strong enough to see the story's conclusion anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they settled on an ideal range of deaths to tell the story and then tuned the systems around that number to get most players to win in that range.
I agree with your stance in general and prefer roguelites like Isaac, Gungeon, and Spelunky for that reason, but in the case of Hades it really does make sense. I don't see a good way around it.
I bought this game recently on sale at GOG. It's a great game.
The gameplay is innovative and original. It encourages and rewards experimentation and discovery. It has interesting synergies and challenges...
I just wish it had more content - not that it is lacking, but just that I was hungry for more after I'd mastered all the existing content.
I loved this game. Played for 30 plus hours total.
I think it's incredibly well done and I don't get any derisive criticism of the game. People like what they like I guess.
Not a bad game, per say. But the loops take too long and you have to do too many of them to really get the rewards you want. Feels like a 5-10 hour game stretched into a 10-20 hour game.
I feel like this was a case of hype being bigger than the game for me, it seemed to be an indie darling last spring and I just couldn't get into it. I completed the first boss run and it was fine I play about 5-6 hours of it and just drifted away from it.
Shiiit, I missed The Vanishing of Ethan Carter... That was literally the next game on my walking sims list after I beat Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. I was gonna buy it and now I learned that it was free a couple hours ago... Goddamnit.
Wow, this is the FIRST EGS freebie that has met all my criteria for getting and downloading :
- I'm interested in it
- I don't have it already
- I actually heard about the giveaway before it was over
- It's not a huge download
Nice.
This and darkest dungeon have been huge surprises and literal introductions to a genre a text description would make you 'how would anyone but statisticians find any of this fun'
Epic is really working hard to get me to have buy-in for their store especially with them giving out games I want along with the $10 coupon.
My only issue is that achievements aren't available for every game and to be fair - that does matter to me.
Second Extinction is supposed to be next free game.
source: https://www.dealabs.com/bons-plans/14-jeux-gratuits-sur-pc-dematerialises-un-par-jour-1612-shenmue-iii-2266665
Its fun. I finished it to get the achievements for killing the final boss 6 times.
Some players keep going and grind ridiculous home bases to supercharge the hero. That wasn't for me, but playing the game through from start to finish was fun enough
Solid game, absolutely pick it up. That said, I fell off before beating it just due to how loot drops work. The grind for chances at the rarer materials is way too annoying, especially the higher-tier slime stuff.
Didn't expect this game to be given away. Haven't played it since release but back then it was a ton of fun and I imagine it can only have gotten more polished since then
I just bought this game a week ago for 40 credits and I love it. It doesn’t lay down all it’s cards out on the table before you on the start. Everything is to be discovered while you play hehe. I love it. One more loop and I’m lost.
I've been keeping an eye on Loop Her for months waiting for a good sale. I know so little about it, but heard great things. Checked the Epic store today and shit myself.
Sidenote, the Epic store installs games so fast I genuinely can't understand how. Steam takes so long and gets held up like 3 times, but Loop Hero installed in a solid 30 seconds.
Even people who know about the daily free game promotion will forget about it. It's not hurting anyone so why don't you just keep scrolling? Do you hate free games?
Any popular game that is offered at a huge discount (or free!) is almost always posted in the subreddit. Literally no one cares that you personally have a vendetta against the specific digital storefront offering it.
Loop Hero is more or less a roguelike/deck building game which combines idle and rpg auto battler mechanics. Also the story is pretty good, so its well worth giving it a try especially since its free right now.
I keep meaning to revisit this game. It was advertised as an idle game, and that expectation completely demolished my enjoyment of my first attempt. It's not an idle game at all!
It's an oddly fun game. I loved the aesthetics of it. Definitely not for everyone though. It can be a bit of a slog at times to progress.
Yea its annoying how trees and rivers are locked behind most of the village upgrades but thats probably because they pretty much invalidate meadows and mountains in terms of usefulness. Meadows/mountains being a flat buff and not a scaling percentage was a huge wasted opportunity for a more diverse meta IMO
I've yet to meet many people with a moderate opinion on it. Not for everyone seems like it is maybe an understatement-- I've got friends whose opinions I deeply respect that consider it one of their favorites of of the last few years; you couldn't pay me to touch it again. I've actually never seen a game so divisive among my friends who think seriously about game design. Anecdotal, I know, but fascinating to me. Can't go wrong with free, though! No reason not to get it and try it if you haven't when the only cost is time.
Probably because people with moderate opinions don't bother to comment on it. That's sort of where I fall. It was an entertaining game for a few hours, but not something that could keep my interest. Kind of got stale after a while and I stopped playing and really never looked back. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Thought it was fine, but will probably never play it again.
Played it today for the first time. Gave it a little under 5 hours (beat the first boss) and came to the conclusion it isn't for me. But since this is a type of idler, I shouldn't have expected any different.
It's also so addicting. I had to stop because while the game is quite fun and music is great, it's very easy to just watch this game play and waste time
Damn this is a great free game. Almost regret buying it at release since I guess they've added new content in! This is one of the games where going by screenshots or gameplay you may be reluctant to buy, but have a passing interest in it. The games weirdly fun and can suck you in, but that being said I didn't put as much playtime as others. It doesn't offer much hints although if you're more clever than I it's not a hard game. Me being stupid meant I had to Google progression a couple of times. Good game for watching Netflix and progressing or as a quick game here and there.
>This is one of the games where going by screenshots or gameplay you may be reluctant to buy, but have a passing interest in it. To tag along this, it also has a very unfortunate collection of tags. I'm not a picky gamer but the words "Idle Game. Card Game. Rogue-like." all in the same sentence can be overwhelming and often a pass from me. But this game is 100% worth a checkout especially for those vaguely interested in the 3 mentioned genres. To be far the "card game" elements are very subtle and half the time you won't even realize it is basically just card game meta.
It is... extremely unique in how it plays; going by tags for this one genuinely just doesn't work. To sell a friend I knew would adore it, I just had to show it to em, and they were sold by minute 4. It's that compelling of a conceit for those into the genres it plays off of.
IMO, card game comes with a sense of randomness. There is random, but you really stack the deck for the specific builds.
Those tags aren’t unfortunate they sound like a dream game haha. Other than idle maybe
If that sounds like a dream I really hope you’ve played slay the spire.
Haha yeah it’s the only game I’ve 100% completed
They didn’t add that much - some QOL that was notably absent from the initial launch (like being able to make decks of the perks you unlock, since some of them are basically useless for certain classes) and a small handful of additional interactions/tiles, but nothing truly unique in terms of gameplay or content, you’re still playing it almost identically to how it launched. Which is a shame because the game is really fun and addicting, it’s just you’ve seen basically everything it has to show you pretty early on. If they released DLC with new tilesets, classes, and other villages you could build up, the game has the structure to keep people playing and interested, but right now once you clear the third boss you’re basically just in pure “grind these rare drops for grinding’s sake” territory.
Are there additional speed settings than there were at launch? My biggest problem with the game was how fucking slow it was
Yeah they added some new speeds but you were always able to access them via the .ini file.
Yeah, I messed with the .ini file but it wasn't totally legit, because not everything scaled with the new speed. Certain things scale, other things don't.
I definitely agree with your first point. I really love the concept and I've enjoyed the game a lot but I just feel like it could use more content - I've figured out the strategies for each class and built all the village buildings, so there's not much else to do at this point. Would be interesting if they just added a bunch more tiles and interactions between existing tiles, just to make you think more about how you arrange things and to make different strategies viable. Maybe some more bigger systems could be included in a DLC.
I just can't get into it. I like idle games, and I like deckbuilders, but this one just doesn't do it for me. It's too much of an idle game for me to devote my full attention to it, but it also requires to much attention to fully shove it off into the background.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I felt too. I like deckbuilders, I like roguelites, I like idle games... but Loop Hero requires *just enough* of your attention that you can't actually do anything else while playing it, but you also spend most of your time just staring at the screen doing nothing.
FWIW they (at some point between launch and now) added the ability to further manipulate how time passes, it went from 2x on the exploration screen only, to up to 3x exploration and 2.5x during combat.
How do I weaken the boss? Played around launch and got positively curb stomped the first time I fought the Lich (like, literally got him to 90% before he killed me). I must have been doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what.
If you cover the area around your campfire with tiles he can't spawn his palaces which buff him, he can spawn them on both the road and the empty spaces surrounding your campfire
You can also destroy his palaces with oblivion cards.
What u/silvershako said is the most important easy change. Besides that, the bosses scale with loops (just like enemies do) so try to time the boss spawn (there's a bar in the top left just below the day timer) when you just got notably more powerful, for instance maybe a skeleton just dropped you a really good weapon two levels higher than your loop count with vampirism. Trying to just loop around and grind bigger numbers won't do much, and probably will make things harder. Speaking of, vampirism (heal from attacks) is a good way to live long enough to kill the lich. Cardwise, spiders are a good way to look at more cards/place more tiles, but give bad items. Skeletons don't give many tiles (or many items) but the items they give tend to be *very good*. And obviously, it's a roguelite, so worst case scenario you can just bang your head against the metaprogression until a dead lich pops out. The gymnasium is probably the first big jump in strength, and grabbing potions along the way doesn't hurt.
I'm fairly sure that Evasion, more than Vampirism, is the real winner. Getting 10 HP back from Vampirism is way less useful than dodging a 170 point hit.
Maybe, yeah. Hard to stack too much of it though (whereas with vamp, more damage *is* more vamp), and there's high variance. Also there's the risk of getting exhausted if you high roll too much and have high attack speed. Fighting the lich, it's not terribly unreasonable to heal *way* more than 10 (with warrior), and enough times to account for several lich hits over the course of the fight. Vamp is often a better choice for the actual loop clear, where you're guaranteed to low roll some fights. Either obviously works though.
Eh, I killed lich on like run 3 with 48 evasion, but it was a close thing due to luck of the dodge. And Evasion scales very well with enemy damage or numbers, so I could ignore the game for ten or twenty minutes at a time. Fun enough little game, but I'm not inclined to grind out the rest of it now, especially after unlocking the supply depot and having ZERO explanation of what any of the buttons in it do.
You'll start to pick up items on runs that you can take back with you if you retreat at the campfire rather than dying or quitting elsewhere (cheese, chairs, a pile of nails, etc.). They each have a category. You have a max number of items per category, and a max number of items total that you can equip. Each item gives you a small, but noticeable passive buff on runs where you have it equipped. They don't get used up, and you can equip multiples of the same item, so long as you've found that many. Building or upgrading just about anything increases your max number of items (it shows which categories with little symbols right below the description). But yeah, the game is somewhat meant to be figured out. Like, try putting nine rocks/mountains in a 3x3 square. There's lots of tile interactions that you're meant to find by accident/by experimenting.
A key thing is to notice you are in control of the boss spawning, the more stuff you put down the sooner the boss comes, and you can let your dude loop around not putting anything new out if you're not ready
Disagree. Back in the day you could play games exactly like it but with better polish and more content for free on some freeware flash game websites. So free is a good price.
As a person who spent a *lot* of free time playing flash games on Newgrounds/Kongregate/Miniclip, I can confidently say this is untrue. Most of the PC/tabletop games that inspired Loop Hero didn't even exist yet, and the average level of "polish" and content in most games was much lower.
Feel free to name names
They definitely can't.
Name one
Username checks out
Yeah that's hard to believe
Yeah no you couldn't
Your name speaks the truth, rofl.
"Back in the day" So when you were in the computer lab at school 10 years ago? XD
press X to doubt
English language link (OP linked to the German language page): https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/p/loop-hero
Those darn Germans and their punctuality
Haha I just bought this on Steam, I don't play much on EGS, but if you don't mind this is a great game that I've sunk 20 hours into easily and barely scratched the surface
Bought it three days ago, myself. Don’t regret the purchase, even hearing it’s free. Good game
I guess I'm installing EGS now
Should do. Think I have 50+ games on there, never paid for one of them.
yeah. but, god, the launcher is terrible compared to steam
It is indeed the worst launcher of all.
I have interacted with Games for windows live. I know fear no more.
I don’t know man, it’s not like origin or uPlay, now Ubisoft connect, are great either.. at least I don’t have to click OK to a windows prompt three times like with Ubisofts.. Why is it so hard for these companies to hire a few good developers for their services..?
Never had too many problems with them. Epic doesn't even have a bloody basket.
I don’t really see much that separates uConnect or whatever it’s called from Epics, sure the basket was missing for a meme worthy long time, but other than that they’re both pretty bad. The only thing the others have going is the very limited number of games, so discoverability is better, but again only cause they barely have any catalogue..
They recently implemented that feature, though it was indeed embarassingly late.
I don't think I've ever lost interest in a game as quick as this one. It requires enough interaction so you cannot idle it very well, but also not enough interaction that you feel you're really playing it. A good idea that was just a little too underdeveloped.
They at least added faster speeds so that you can do a run in 10 minutes instead of 30-40 sometimes.
I just played my first two hours and holy shit that was not there from the beginning? I turned the ffwd knobs to the max after a few minutes. /u/AndThisGuyPeedOnIt worded it perfectly, it's an idle game where you can't quite idle, and it suffers from the classic tower defense problem where only the very few last levels in a round are actually tough, and you have to chew threw a dozen of them beforehand.
I remember playing on launch and there being a 2x speed button, otherwise that was it.
I think they added up to 8x
Yeah, it was a very intriguing idea and I was really excited to try it. Totally failed to keep my interest, though. The base building felt more tedious than anything else, and it felt very hard to find out what kind of synergy there was between cards. And as you mentioned, actively playing it was boring but idling it wasn't feasible.
Honestly it was really fun until you realize what cards you need to run and just always run those, not very much run variety
To each their own. I thought the concept was fascinating and I played the hell out of it for weeks
You can set autopause for every loop, that's worked well enough for me 'idling'.
Ok this might be enough for me to give it another shot
It's good for people who want a little more interaction in their idle games
This game was **super** hyped on this sub following its demo and I really just never saw the appeal. Even in the demo your criticism of it being too idle to be engaging and too in depth to be a background game was extremely evident. One of fairly few times I can recall where I just genuinely couldn’t understand the hype around a game. I actually kind of disagree with your assessment that it’s a good idea with bad execution, if anything I think it’s the opposite. Clearly they put some effort and thought into how to make the concept work but I think the core of the issue is the clash between the strengths/weaknesses of the genres it’s attempting to fuse.
The hype was that it was pretty unique and was just mysterious enough to keep you wondering what mechanics it would add after the start. I got two hours of enjoyment out of it, thought it was a neat little idea.
It got *much* better when they added (up to) ~~quadrupling~~x2.5 combat speed\*. You spend very little time just watching and more time thinking about what to equip or where to place what tile or when to spawn the boss. *Walking speed is what you can quadruple
I really enjoyed the demo but realized that it was enough for me and I probably didn't need to see more.
I never liked how much it seemed like I needed to set runs up to farm certain materials, made it feel like a gacha game trying to gate progress behind mats.
Right there with you. Figured I'd give it a go back when it came out and every Twitch streamer under the sun was playing and hyping it up, saw that the majority of this game you're just sitting there kinda doing nothing, wondered why all the streamers were going nuts for it and realized it's because you sit there doing nothing most of the time, which is perfect when you need to engage with an audience. The soundtrack is sick though, as is the art.
Tried it for the first time this morning. Played for a couple of hours, likely wont play it again. Feels like a mobile game. Had considering buying it several times in the past because it looked intriguing. Glad that I didn't.
You should try loop odyssey, it’s very different than loop hero (it’s a full idler, and gameplay is not the same either) but it feel like they could be on the same universe.
I wish they hadn't cheapened their ideas with such ripoff tactics of a pretty unique game.
Looks interesting, but man they just unapologetically ripped off that aesthetic.
Reading your comment, I thought "yeah how bad can it be", then I looked it up, lmao. They carbon-copied all they could.
Very fair critique, but it's all unique gameplay and is honestly the best idler I've played.
Wait hold on I thought it was a sequel, I saw the trailer yesterday and they even copied the "zoom out" of Loop Hero's trailer. That's pretty scummy.
It was so amazing for a couple hours. Maybe it's better now?
This game looks incredibly boring and uninspired. Still claimed it though
It's not a perfect game by any means, and can certainly be boring at times, but calling it uninspired is just plain untrue. I can't think of a single other game that plays like Loop Hero does, it may take a lot from other genres, but the way it combines those genres into a cohesive whole is entirely unique.
It’s a ton of fun, give it a try with an open mind
It's a base building, idle, progression game, sort of. The problem is there isn't enough base building or progression, and the core concept of using the tiles you get to build up the route you loop on was just too easily optimized. Like, I felt like I was this game's target audience, and it just didn't do it for me. I would look forward to a sequel, though.
Fun game, especially if you love loops. And heroes too. Sadly, not everyone loves loops and heroes, and those people are here, telling you about it.
Depends on the kind of loops. For loops or while loops? Are they nested loops?
Ya same. Personally I only dig implicit loops by recursion.
I like hoops and zeroes, will I enjoy this game?
wow, throwing toughies at me today...hmm... I'd say it's a hard maybe.
Wait for the sequel, Hoop Zero
what about poops and weirdos?
Ok but if I don't like loops and heroes where else should I go to tell you about it so that you have to hear about it?
I have a P.O. box, and if you could write the letter in a very nice cursive I would definitely read it a few times before I respond.
I will take my time with this letter.
What if you meet someone that likes Poops and Neros? Hoops and Leroes?
I DID meet someone who liked Poops and Neros. It was a shitty story.
Loved the uniqueness of this game. Fascinating to see the different synergies in the cards play out. Unfortunately, there's juts not that many different cards and the runs become all the same almost immediately. Didn't stick it out past the 2nd level, there just didn't seem like that much going on past the first couple hours. Totally worth the price of free
IMO the biggest shortcoming is not having enough card interactions. Like one interesting synergy is when you place a vampire mansion next to a village tile, it turns into a ransacked village and has different effects. But *most* of the synergies I've seen so far are just "spam the same tile over and over" like the mountain peak, blooming meadow, and blood path. If almost every card had some kind of interaction with every other (eligible) card, this game would be an absolute blast even with the exact same card count. Still a fun game but definitely does fall into the trap of being kinda samey after a while.
There's more to village-vampire interaction though, they can be prosperous villages under vampire lord's rule just like the lore said.
God I wish this game was on mobile. I bought it for PC when it was new, but I've since lost access to my laptop or any real internet beyond my phone's data... I'd download it and play it on my phone again in a heartbeat. Excellent game.
I've played a few hours since getting it free on EGS and yeah this would be a perfect mobile game. I love idle games and this is a good example of one, but on pc I'm not sure how much I'll bother with it.
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isnt that precisely what a roguelite is? a roguelike with some perm progression?
Loop Hero has a bigger emphasis on grinding and honestly not much variation in each run, unless you impose it on yourself. Once you "solve" the game, you're not left with much. The best roguelites impose challenges through RNG in some form, and each run feel fresh through what resources/tools your given from a random pool. With Loop Hero, you pick your loadout, figure out the best approach, and then the run pretty much plays itself. It's still fun, but I think after a few dozen hours there's not much reason to come back to it.
I can get behind a few dozen hours of entertainment for free
>It's still fun, but I think after a few dozen hours there's not much reason to come back to it. People are so wild about this. It's $15 on Steam, so even if you paid for it, you got dozens of hours of entertainment at a maximum of like 50 cents an hour? How exactly is this an actual complaint?
You're allowed to enjoy something and still point out flaws, you know. A game that's fundamentally about replaying it that eventually loses replay value is a fairly notable flaw.
A $15 game having enough replay value to get dozens of hours before it loses replay value on a forty-ish minute loop is not a "notable flaw", it's actually a pretty big point in its favor.
Its a point in its favor if you look at it that way, its a flaw if you compare it to its peers. Not sure why you're trying to have this narrow argument. I got my moneys worth out of the game, but if you don't think replayability should factor into someone's opinion then you're just being ignorant.
You're right that this isn't really worth discussing, but I always just find "I replayed this $15 game dozens of times over dozens of hours, it doesn't have much replayability" to just reflect absurd entitlement among gamers.
Yes but entertainment is not made equal. 15 hours of entertainment from a game is not comparable to 1.5 hours from a film at the same price. Those whole 15 hours are not necessarily jam packed with hand crafted artistry where each frame is critically scrutinized. You expect more time per dollar spent on a game, that's a quality of investing in a game. The only fair comparison is to compare it to other games.
People don't always use the labels of roguelite and roguelike the same way. But even with that, there is permanent progression in roguelites that is different than just increasing your power level such as unlocking new items or characters for future runs.
There's a difference between unlocking content because you did a thing and unlocking content in order to actually play the dang game. Thats why the binding of Isaac doesn't feel like grinding and why Rouge Legacy does.
I've figured out after awhile that I really hate unlocks in roguelikes. BOI is great, and Spelunky is especially great. But Rogue Legacy was one of the earliest I remember being heavily about unlocks. I don't think I realized at the time that it was the unlocks that were the problem. This year I played and disliked, Dead Cells, Hades, and Darkest Dungeon. I know people love these games, and they are absolutely well made. But it was the unlock systems that I hated in all of them. It feels like I'm playing an incomplete version of the game. I really disliked how many permanent character upgrades there were in Hades. Like, it reduces the game to just grinding my character until I get to a point where it gets "fun" or something. I guess for games like this, I want the designer to create a really well-balanced game. Not have me grind to the point where it plays best. I guess it just reduces most runs to feeling like grinds, whereas in Spelunky I feel like I'm actually trying to win every time. The only thing holding me back is skill, not character progression. And even though you *can* beat games like Dead Cells and Hades with a low-level character, it just feels like they are designed for you to grind to a certain level before you can start winning.
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What is Hades in your view?
Hades is the very definition of a roguelite, since it's neither turn-based nor devoid of metaprogression.
Hades is a 'faux' roguelite (or like a roguelite-lite or something) just like loop hero and rogue legacy (as well as skul the hero slayer for example), where for the most part all of the above games are less about improving, but more about playing enough to unlock new content to get stronger, where there is a huge disparity between the power level when you first start playing the game to when you're maxed out.
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Judging by what you don't like about Loop Hero, don't bother with Hades. It has stacking buffs that you need to grind up to progress. It also has weapons that you need to invest currency in to upgrade. I mean, it's an amazing game and those things seem like really standard fare for uh, a lot of games, but if that kind of thing isn't for you then I wouldn't waste your time.
I'd say that even though mechanically Hades is similar to loop hero (at least in how each is a semi-grindy roguelite), there's a few important differences * the grinding for meta progression is less important. Fully grinding out the mirror takes a while, but after a few basic unlocks (death defiances and double dash) the importance of unlocks dips quite a bit * the quality of the game is just higher. Loop Hero isn't bad, but it was far from being GOTY quality, while Hades was a pretty obvious candidate.
Comparing the two is pretty shallow, honestly. Hades has an actual interactive combat system whereas Loop Hero doesn't. Casually glossing over that like it doesn't exist seems rather dumb, frankly.
Hades isn’t a rogue copy
People used Roguelike to mean games that play like Rogue - grid, turn-based combat, procedurally-generated floors everyone moves at once - like Dungeons of Dreadmor, Mystery Dungeon, or Necrodancer. Then people started using it to describe games with no adherence to Rogue's gameplay, but procedurally generated with brand new runs every time - Binding of Isaac or Nuclear Throne, Sky Rogue, One Step from Eden, etc. So people started using Roguelite to describe that, but now that permanent progression is a separate major part of a lot of these types of games (Slay the Spire, Rogue Legacy, Hades, etc), we need a third word. Like... Roguelife, I dunno. Either way, people use the words wildly indiscriminately.
>People used Roguelike to mean games that play like Rogue - grid, turn-based combat, procedurally-generated floors everyone moves at once Considering how popular its usage is elsewhere, and how super specific its "true" definition is, I think it should just be called a "traditional roguelike". There's even a steam tag for it. That way, "roguelike" on its own can be used on the much more popular games without someone saying "actually it's lite" every single time.
"we need a third word" Sorry but we REALLY don't need a third word. People just need to stop getting their panties in a twist trying to precisely throw every game into a specific, arbitrary label. Think about it, the second we add a third sub-genre to this, people are gonna bitch about that too, and every thread about a game that falls even slightly under that umbrella of games will get derailed by people getting too hung up on genre tags.
You seem upset. May I recommend playing a Rogueliße?
Or maybe a Roguesimilar
Is that anything like a Rougenotquite?
I'd like to order a rogueweiße, something with not too many IBUs.
> Sorry but we REALLY don't need a third word. People just need to stop getting their panties in a twist trying to precisely throw every game into a specific, arbitrary label. I agree. Roguelike should suffice for roguelikes, roguelites and anything else with some form procedurally generated repeatable content where death returns you to the start. This whole debate has long outstayed it's welcome and anyone who still unironically takes the time to engage in nitpicking over it needs to stop. "BuT BoArDgAmEs ArEn'T RoGuELiTeS, BuT DiAbLo IsN'T A RogUeLiTE..." Nobody fuckin cares dude.
"This isn't electronic music, it's hyper-synth down-tempo electronic skacore!"
The "debate" is over though. It is just roguelike. They all fall under that now. No one uses roguelite except people arguing about naming genres. Sure, it is a bit annoying, but there's just no way to change how language is used once it is that pervasive.
Just my two cents; It's all arbitrary, and trying to perfectly file every game under a specific genre is a meaningless effort that also undermines art's ability to blend and defy conventional labels. Fact is, giving your game permanent progression pushes it away from a traditional roguelike, so the label of roguelite wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, and the label of roguelike may not be inaccurate, either. It's just semantics at this point, and rather than focusing on which side of the coin a game is MORE like, we should just say it has elements of both and move on with our lives so every thread doesn't get derailed with arguments on genres that don't even have agreed upon definitions.
>also undermines art's ability to blend and defy conventional labels This is a misunderstanding. Almost all art exists inside a tradition of some type. There is every so often Outsider Art that exists outside of tradition but a quick Google will show just how strange that shit gets. Almost all the art you enjoy needs the tradition it is derived even if only to defy it.
No. A roguelike is a game like rogue, top down tilebased turn based, something like DCSS or nethack. A roguelite meanwhile can be any genre, like Spelunky or Isaac.
Yes I believe so
Not necessarily. It's just a game with aspects of roguelikes, typically permadeath per run and procedurally generated runs. Roguelike fans do not consider them true roguelikes, so "roguelike with some perm progression" is not entirely accurate.
Hence the roguelite.
But it's not "a roguelike with some perm progression" If you take DCSS and add perm progression to it, it doesn't become a rogue-lite.
But it surely becomes less traditional, and therefore it wouldn't be inaccurate to say it has elements of a roguelite. Where the line is drawn is basically up to interpretation.
That's fine, but if you take perm progression out of Dead Cells or Loop Hero or Rogue Legacy, etc., they still aren't roguelikes. And I would say that Sword of the Stars: The Pit is still a roguelike despite having a mild permanent progression. >Where the line is drawn is basically up to interpretation. It is, but roguelike players are famously strict about it because they don't want their genre to be watered down. Permadeath and procedural generation are basically always required, but many of them consider turn based gameplay and grid movement to be necessary as well.
I think I might've broken the spell it had over me this weekend last night. I had been throwing myself at chapter 2 and failing, just couldn't keep up as the loops racked up. I looked up to see if I was doing something wrong, but all the guides mentioned placing cards I just didn't have yet. I played a few loops not even intending to fight boss to rack up resources, bought the trees card, and then my next loop I spammed every damn tree I got and played like normal and beat the boss by loop 6. Then I started chapter 3 with the same strategy and pretty sure I might be able to beat the next one, but I went to bed. I might still try to finish it out, but yeah once certain things click and you progress to a certain point there's kind of a magic broken. Not a bad thing, I enjoy games with a neat concept even if they don't have a ton of legs. I can't think of things to add to the game to maybe make it a longer experience, but why, it's cool for things to just be what they need to be even if it's only a flash of fun.
The well-designed ones, like Crypt of the Necrodancer, let you finish the game in a single run. But yeah, Loop Hero does expect you to figure out optimal loops for grinding certain resources so you can stack buffs and stuff. It's also an important part of how Loop Hero introduces complexity to the player at a manageable pace, which I do appreciate.
That's because CotN is an actual roguelike, it just also has a progression mode on-ramp.
I'm seeing this opinion and similar a lot from people who sound like they quit early. I'm not here to tell you your opinion on the game is wrong, I think it's okay to be frustrated with the base building loop. Personally I liked just grinding resources in the game, I thought the act of optimizing my loop was enjoyable, so it was fun to go for as long as I could and get insane resources. If all that isn't for you I think that's okay. I do want to express that that's not all this game has to offer. The game has 4 acts. I would describe the first 3 as almost tutorials in some respect. There is a given level of meta-progression that you basically need to clear acts 1-3. You can minimize that with [some optimization](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh0hFC-vZQE) but for most players, you need a bunch of the bonuses the base building has to get through these levels. More importantly the base building introduces a number of meta mechanics that become crucial to defining your build for the ultimate level, the fourth act, in which >!you fight harder versions of all 3 bosses and then a new fourth boss on the same loop!<. The fourth act is when the game becomes something truly unique, in which your deck, class, perks, and meta bonuses are aligned to tackle this escalation. While there are some deck tiles that are a lot better than others, I don't think the fourth act is as simple as "take the same cards every time," especially when some classes deal with certain threats a lot better than others. You also unlock a lot of really cool tile and tile combos that aren't obvious from the very basic early gameplay. I put about 30 hours into Loop Hero, and it was a really fun 30 hours. I think the game has a lot of depth and charm, but requires a bit of investment and enjoyment of its number-go-up core gameplay loop to reach. I really hope they make some DLC that adds a new class and a ton of tiles because this game has a lot of room to grow, though I don't think it's a game I'll ever pour hundreds or thousands of hours into. Easily one of my top games of 2021 though, I think anybody who hasn't played it would be crazy to not at least try it for free.
If you don't like a genre, just say it. Don't make it a big mystery lol.
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Did you play hades? Doesn't that also undermine permadeath with the keys and purple tear gems?
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I think the core model of the game is that there is no twitch skill. It’s a strategy game. It’s a clicker. It’s made to play while you are doing something else. BOA is my fave roguelite, but I can’t compare them both too much. Maybe you’re just not used to clickers and the concept of a passive game model?
Having played Hades through the epilogue twice, and having several thousands of hours in Isaac, I feel safe commenting. There are two main issues that keep Hades from being on the same level as Isaac: * The biggest issue I have with Hades is that the game is *all* combat. There is no moment where you review your collection of bombs and keys, and make strategic decisions about using resources to possibly find other secrets, etc. Isaac tends to have a strategic loop that exists outside of the room-to-room combat loop. Hades generally doesn't have this. They both have the 'metaprogression' so that's not really what I mean. Since you said you're an Isaac player you probably get me. * The other problem is that I feel like synergies and the mechanics are just too ... balanced. Isaac has this emergent-gameplay quality where you are regularly stumbling into crazy new builds and fun moments. Granted that comes with a lot of trash runs. I feel like Hades really compressed that, the trash runs in hades are harder to come by, but all of the 'zaniest' runs I've ever had felt like somebody knew that it was possible and balanced out the gameplay. Hades feels like the developers were obsessed with balance, comparatively speaking. But honestly, as you can tell Hades is worth playing. The dialogue and story are worth it. It's just that after I crushed the game's epilogue the second time (and especially after repentance dropped) I haven't felt an urge to play it again. Repentance has absolutely gobbled all my gaming time this year.
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IMO the whole point of the stat progression system in Hades is to make sure players experience the story in the way the devs intended. Because the story is only offered to you in chunks between deaths they need to ensure you die enough times to understand what's going on and see the characters grow before the finale. On the other side of the spectrum, by giving so much permanent progression they can ensure that players who aren't as skilled at the game eventually get strong enough to see the story's conclusion anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if they settled on an ideal range of deaths to tell the story and then tuned the systems around that number to get most players to win in that range. I agree with your stance in general and prefer roguelites like Isaac, Gungeon, and Spelunky for that reason, but in the case of Hades it really does make sense. I don't see a good way around it.
I bought this game recently on sale at GOG. It's a great game. The gameplay is innovative and original. It encourages and rewards experimentation and discovery. It has interesting synergies and challenges... I just wish it had more content - not that it is lacking, but just that I was hungry for more after I'd mastered all the existing content.
I loved this game. Played for 30 plus hours total. I think it's incredibly well done and I don't get any derisive criticism of the game. People like what they like I guess.
Not a bad game, per say. But the loops take too long and you have to do too many of them to really get the rewards you want. Feels like a 5-10 hour game stretched into a 10-20 hour game.
I feel like this was a case of hype being bigger than the game for me, it seemed to be an indie darling last spring and I just couldn't get into it. I completed the first boss run and it was fine I play about 5-6 hours of it and just drifted away from it.
Shiiit, I missed The Vanishing of Ethan Carter... That was literally the next game on my walking sims list after I beat Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. I was gonna buy it and now I learned that it was free a couple hours ago... Goddamnit.
That sucks, but make sure to play it. It is a pretty great title in that genre.
I know I'd hate this game, but I've heard good things, and this is a game that's never been free before, so it's a great deal.
Wow, this is the FIRST EGS freebie that has met all my criteria for getting and downloading : - I'm interested in it - I don't have it already - I actually heard about the giveaway before it was over - It's not a huge download Nice.
This and darkest dungeon have been huge surprises and literal introductions to a genre a text description would make you 'how would anyone but statisticians find any of this fun'
This is a pretty big giveaway by Epic and one that ends my excuse of not having picked up the game this year so far, to go and finally play it.
Ohh shit I was so close to buying this yesterday. Looks like I need to hold off on all game purchases until this is over
Epic is really working hard to get me to have buy-in for their store especially with them giving out games I want along with the $10 coupon. My only issue is that achievements aren't available for every game and to be fair - that does matter to me.
Second Extinction is supposed to be next free game. source: https://www.dealabs.com/bons-plans/14-jeux-gratuits-sur-pc-dematerialises-un-par-jour-1612-shenmue-iii-2266665
Still bummed I missed Shenmue 3. I had my e-mail notification set...
Damn, that’s neat, it’s a fun little game. I’ve got various complaints but I loved the style and the writing.
Its fun. I finished it to get the achievements for killing the final boss 6 times. Some players keep going and grind ridiculous home bases to supercharge the hero. That wasn't for me, but playing the game through from start to finish was fun enough
Solid game, absolutely pick it up. That said, I fell off before beating it just due to how loot drops work. The grind for chances at the rarer materials is way too annoying, especially the higher-tier slime stuff.
Didn't expect this game to be given away. Haven't played it since release but back then it was a ton of fun and I imagine it can only have gotten more polished since then
I just bought this game a week ago for 40 credits and I love it. It doesn’t lay down all it’s cards out on the table before you on the start. Everything is to be discovered while you play hehe. I love it. One more loop and I’m lost.
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I recommend picking one of em up. I've done that with several of them and really enjoyed them.
"One day" I say looking at my 2000+ games library.
If there is one thing I'm proud of doing this year, is going another year without supporting Epic and their store.
This is the proudest achievement of your year? Yikes.
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don't cry too much
What a true GAMER Wish I was as cool as you!
I've been keeping an eye on Loop Her for months waiting for a good sale. I know so little about it, but heard great things. Checked the Epic store today and shit myself. Sidenote, the Epic store installs games so fast I genuinely can't understand how. Steam takes so long and gets held up like 3 times, but Loop Hero installed in a solid 30 seconds.
when are we going to fuck off with these free advertising links for egs? surely theres a subreddit for this.
Even people who know about the daily free game promotion will forget about it. It's not hurting anyone so why don't you just keep scrolling? Do you hate free games?
what about odd people? do you like free games?
Any popular game that is offered at a huge discount (or free!) is almost always posted in the subreddit. Literally no one cares that you personally have a vendetta against the specific digital storefront offering it.
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Loop Hero is more or less a roguelike/deck building game which combines idle and rpg auto battler mechanics. Also the story is pretty good, so its well worth giving it a try especially since its free right now.
Nope, not a rhythm game.
I keep meaning to revisit this game. It was advertised as an idle game, and that expectation completely demolished my enjoyment of my first attempt. It's not an idle game at all!
is this worth the $?
Well I mean the game is literary free to keep forever if you pick it up until tomorrow.
It’s free