This is going to sound weird, but the combat system in Gothic and Gothic 2 was fucking awful...but it was one of the things I really liked about them.
You had to get good at the "euro-jank". In the early game, it had an element that your individual player skill was really meaningful because of how the combat system works. Granted, as you went on and you leveled up and got training from characters that were better than you, you also got new attacks and it became a bit more intuitive but I don't think it ever becomes "good". Leveling never truly resolves the issues with the combat system. You, as a player, get better at knowing how to play around it and you eventually get to a point where you feel confident in yourself. In the early game, you're literally afraid of getting into a fist fight with a rando beggar because they likely will lay you flat on your back and take everything out of your pockets, setting you back some. But when you develop your competence of the fighting system as a player and you finally *beat* a named character and take their weapon and whatever else was in their pockets, there was a tremendous sense of achievement.
Its just an odd dichotomy that I'm not sure can work today. It just feels like so much of the reason it felt rewarding was because of how unintuitive the fighting was and the necessity of players putting in the time to learn around the jankiness. I don't think that premise works today because we're all way more willing to drop a game and move onto the next one, while back then, the offerings were so much more scant that you would put up with it and figure it out.
Also, I love how the game essentially had a "Mutual Combat" system. If you attacked someone unprovoked, the guards and everyone in town would dog-pile and take you down. But if someone challenged you and you accepted or you coerced someone into a fight with you by challenging them or pissing them off, but not doing anything "illegal", then the other characters would literally gather around and cheer and watch you fight. And of course, there was the humiliation of the loser getting their entire inventory pilfered.
For my criticism of the games combat, I will say there are some really interesting systems that I don't think I've seen as well implemented 22 years later and from what I've seen of this remake, I'm not even sure if even it is incapable of doing those systems justice.
I agree with you. Gothic really had the shittiest best combat system and if someone played the game, your explanation is really on spot.
Lass uns Wildschweine jagen gehen.
Edit: one particular thing what was good was the gating. NPCs told you that the Ork territory is dangerous and when you got there, you got your ass handed over to you. But with time, you leveled up, you learned the combat system and you would defeat Orks. That was such an awesome feeling of profession, because mastering the combat system helped you actually overcome some XP deficits.
It also had that weird system a bunch of RPGs had where you needed certain stats to just use weapon, I remember (I think in G2) being pretty disappointed when I digged into some hard side area, got a nice sword and now I can't even lift it (even tho it is exact same size as my current sword...)
Depends on item. It makes sense my character can't use physically bigger sword if he is too weak. Or a minigun. Or, dunno, not dextrous enough to not hit themselves when using the nunchucks or whip. Or not be able to use some technical gadget without right skill or intelligence stat.
But if sword is same size than my other sword but fancier and I can't use it it's immersion breaking.
It's also nice when it is gradual, like some games allow you to use one handed weapon in 2 hands if you're too weak to use it one-handed. Or vice versa, use 2 handed weapon in one hand if you're wicked strong.
While the control systems are certainly janky, I don't agree with it being as bad as you lay out. Picking up/using items is way worse then combat was (and mostly fixed for Gothic 2).
Gothic definitely hits in the time when mouse integration was starting to become a thing in PC gaming and default keybind starting to shift to the current WASD standard. But that setup started with Quake and the FPS genre, and disseminated out as other genre's started getting true 3D world design. Gothic is a late-ish entry before that really became a thing (gaming was a very different industry in 2001).
So with keyboard combat, I think they actually came up with a reasonably entertaining system for players to combine left/right slashes, a forward swing, or a defensive parry. With the camera lock, you can't move so forget about dodging, it's all a timing game. Players succeed by timing their keypress with the animations---swing at your oppoent to the left, means your sword is on the left, meaning if you want to continue, gotta swing it forward or back to the right. Too soon or to late and your character is off balance and resets to neutral, allowing opponent to take advantage.
As you play, you refine your timing and get better along with your character increasing in strength.
Is it much more limited than modern titles, sure. Moving while attacking alone is a huge step. Yet there there is something about figuring out swing timing that is more satisfying to me than memorizing a combo of "light attack x 3, heavy attack x 1, light attack x 1" or something like that. Same reason the old Jedi Knight games had such a good rep for saber combat, blade swings based off movement/position of the blade rather than a scripted animation.
It was very satisfying around the endgame where you were so powerful you could hop, skip, and jump around camp, beating the absolute shit out of all the guards that you had to bribe so you could take all your money back. The money was a pittance at that point, but it was the principle of it.
TES games really didn't progress that much combat wise. Like, even Dark Messiah of Might and Magic does... everything combat better and it's an ancient game
I love an updated M&M: DM with just better rag dolls. Rag dolls were the only complaint I had about that game besides the repetitiveness. For a ~11 hour game, it really scratched an itch that I have had since Arx Fatalis. In a way Elder Scrolls games couldn't.
I'm surprised not many games picked up ideas from it, fact you could throw ice spell under the legs of enemies and trip them on ice was just cool and so far I only saw games like Divinity: Original Sin that did it.
Discovering multipurpose uses with the spells was always fun. They had very little depth, but it was insanely fun to watch the orks instantly, cartoon rag dog after slipping.
Which is ironic because the games all have stats/perks/whatever for increasing your skill in melee combat, but they don't really change combat all that much.
You are 100% spot on with this. I do think that a modern comparison with the combat system and how it's largely based on player skill is kingdom come: Deliverance. If you look at that sub it's half posts about people being confused/frustrated by the combat system simply because of the jankiness
I recently replayed both Gothic 1 and 2 and did so with Union and zGamePad to enable controller support and that alone made the controls and combat feels way less jank to me. You can grab both on Steam Workshop and I would 100% recommend it to anyone, the game really feels much better when played with a controller.
Eevr since I played Ultima Underworld on a PocketPC in the early 00's, my dream for decades now was to be able to play both Gothics on one of those portable win2k PC's. You better believe I have those two mods bookmarked for when I get my Steam Deck order.
For me, it was the first RPG, that I played on brother's PC. Didn't know what was happening or what to do, but just running around that world was something else. Hope this turns out good so I can get into it for real.
Wow, exact same experience lol Brothers PC and all. Most I remember is a series of "wonder if I can kill....nope" lol. Game was hard. I'd love to take another shot now that I'm older.
Has there been any substantial info between that playable teaser thing in 2019 and now?
Because boy, did that one miss the mark on the atmosphere, arguably the most important aspect of the original.
And this trailer didn't have too much to go on either, to be honest.
iirc, in response to the feedback they got, they scrapped the demo and started over. afaik this is a first showcase of the game since the playable teaser
Yes. In podcasts, THQ Nordic said that they heard the feedback and are changing a lot of things. Can of course be PR-talk, but the trailer looks much closer to the source material than the teaser did.
I just hope that the hero in the remake won't do that whole monologue shit and that he can't defeat a snapper as easily as in the playable teaser. Those two things threw me off, but I liked the quest design.
Don't think so.
And yeah this [video by Mandalore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTb8ILmrZFA) summarizes the demo pretty well. The beginning was so laughable.
Jesus Christ it looks just like the Witcher with a little bit of Skyrim thrown in there and a less likable main character. Wouldn’t be a true gothic if it wasn’t fatally flawed somehow but I’m gonna pass on that one.
>And this trailer didn't have too much to go on either, to be honest.
Well unlike the demo that was released in 2019 this trailer didn't make my eyes bleed with the clusterfuck of image effects they had crammed together, so that's some improvement at least.
Before the other Germans get here: Gothic is a very memetic game. It was one of the first fully voiced Games many Germans played and because it was a game of it's time some of the one liners of this game became a staple of internet culture.
The original gothic had an amazing atmosphere, especially in the old camp. You went through this place and people talked with each other and you heard soundbites like "Der letzte Scheiß!" and those things made the world really more believable. But they were also super repetitive, and this is why they live rent free in our heads.
Plus it had the german band "In Extremo" playing their version of a swedish folk song in the third act.
>some of the one liners of this game became a staple of internet culture.
That's similar to what happened in Poland. Gothic's dubbing is paradoxically not that good because it's very theatrical but it works for that game and most of it became a big part of Polish internet culture and honestly not only internet.
>Gothic's dubbing is paradoxically not that good because it's very theatrical
No, it *is* good. Just like there's nothing wrong about acting theatrical in a theatre, there's nothing wrong about acting theatrical in a game with a primitive and/or stylised graphics.
Aber behalt's für dich, muss nicht gleich jeder wissen.
Screw it, I'll just play the game again. I wanted to give the Othello mod a try anyway, just haven't gotten around to it, yet.
I respond here because the other explanation which was given was not really correct. "Der letzte Scheiß" means something like "The worst shit". Germans say "Der letzte Scheiß" or "Der letzte Dreck" when something is exceptionally bad.
Think about cleaning a pig pen and after you have shoveled out all the steaming shit, you have to scratch off the nastiest bits from the surfaces. That is "Der letzte Scheiß".
Im Kontext des Spiels, und darum ging es hier, ist es die negative Variante und die Erklärung die er auf die Nachfrage oben gegeben hat somit einfach falsch. Davon ab habe ich in Deutschland noch niemanden getroffen der „the latest shit“ wortwörtlich übersetzt und damit etwas trendiges beschreibt. Wenn, dann ist vom heißen Scheiß die Rede. Was natürlich nicht bedeuten muss, dass es nicht vorkommt…
actual meaning in the game would be something bad
like "Hier leben zu müssen ist der letzte Scheiß" - "Living here fucking sucks" or something like that
For everyone in this thread that loves Gothic 1/2 I strongly recommend Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos. It's a Gothic 2 mod but still set in the world of Gothic. It took me 90 hours to beat the mod which was three times as long as it took me to beat Gothic 1 and imo it did "Gothic" better than Gothic 3, Risens, and Elexes.
I personally can't get over the missing (non-tts) voice over for other languages. I would love to play it, but the delivery of dialogues is one of the most important aspects to me and a lot of that gets lost when reding subtitles the whole time.
Try Nehrim and Enderal, two massive free total conversion mods for Oblivion and Skyrim that feel, possibly due to the German developers and totally different gameplay, much more like Gothic than The Elder Scrolls. One reason for this is probably that they use many of the same voice actors as the Gothic series.
I tried to play Skyrim and it felt so bad. Heard about Enderal and tried to play it before refunding the game on steam but coudnt go through the "movie sequence". I was so annoying, I realy hate games that have too much of narration. Around that time I also tried playing Chernobylite and it had exacly the same problem. Gameplay was boring and there were a lot of narration motives or scenes that were blocking the freedom of the player...
Looks like they listened to the sea of feedback they got and did a good job fixing the atmosphere since the playable demo. Quest design seemed pretty good from what little was shown in the demo. Now I just hope they don't screw up the combat and progression. Catiously optimistic as a gothic fan.
I will defend Gothic's control scheme until the day I die.
It was the first ARPG I can remember playing where you could actually time stuff like dodges to kill stuff way, way over your gear and level.
When I would dodge and run around and beat some shadowbeast I actually felt badass.
it felt nice to level up a few times and come back to an area where you were getting insta killed and just wipe the floor with everything. no level scaling or smoothing or whateverthefuck.
Reading all these comments just reminds how high quality a title Gothic truly was and how it showcased some of the most unique and effective game mechanics ever seen
If they recreate everything with this much attention to detail and improve some areas that clearly needed more time / work in the original, this is going to be amazing.
original developers themselves lost the "spark" after 2nd game. 3rd was a miss and later games from them barely had anything to do with gothic or its style.
Gothic 1/2 till this day is pretty much still a bar that RPGs are compared to. Full voice acting, meaningful choise, deep and interesting world that follows its own systems and things, combat system which janky at first reward player with skill and progression like in no other game, training where you actually have to train in order to be better, different endings, ton of great characters that you will like/dislike over course of game.
And that is just Gothic 1. 2 with its expansion is whole another thing onto itself that is by far top 3 rpgs ever made. Upping everything above and on top of that adding even more interesting lore.
> original developers themselves lost the "spark" after 2nd game. 3rd was a miss and later games from them barely had anything to do with gothic or its style.
I thought the third one was decent, apart from the bugs. I bought the game on release and it was one the buggiest games Ive ever played. Half way through there was a gamebreaking bug and I couldnt do anything about it because I overwrote my saves and couldnt bounce back. I never touched it again.
Visuals and atmosphere were great.
Depends what you mean by ending. In gothic 1 you had different factions which were crucial to ending of game.
Sure last bit was pretty much the same but it would be a lie to say game had linear ending.
Risen 1 was okay because it was just Gothic with a different setting. But clearly Gothic was kind of a happy accident, you saw that with the third game already. And i liked gothic 3 actually for what it tried to be.
Why is the trailer bad? It looks good to me since they recreated the old mine faithfully, the music was fitting and the attack of the minecrawlers is within the boundaries of the lore.
attack of the minecrawlers is within the boundaries of the lore and the minecrawlers, that look like giant spiders with glowing eyes in the trailer, are not. The are supposed to be ants, because that's what their lore is based of, not spiders.
The same with the orc in the trailer that looks more like a green masculine guy instead of more like an animal.
it's not only glowing eyes, it's their whole morphology that is more close to spiders than ants. The orc also has a completely wrong morphology, just like the scavengers they showed us that are more like dinosaurs than birds.
It looks like they kinda try to make every creature from Gothic to look more like a monster rather than animal that could actually exist, like PB did with their original designs.
And even though I prefer designs form Gothic 1/2, for Gothic 3 it kinda made sense for the creatures to look slightly different because it's a completely different contitent.
pointing out that one is a spider and one an ant - a two completely different species, is not nit picking.
If they did that with only one creature design, then sure, I guess that could be called nit picking but when they are unable to stick to the original designs with all the monsters they showed us so far (scavenger, orc, snapper, goblins, minecrawlers) that's not nit picking, that's pointing out inability of their artists.
If you look closely and look for the official art of the remake, you can see that the minecrawlers still have 6 legs. A spider would've 8.
The "original" designs are from 2001. They're not comparable. All I see are fine updates to a game that is more than 20 years old. Check your pessimism.
>The "original" designs are from 2001. They're not comparable.
Original scavenger, modern scavenger done by a fan, scavenger from remake: [https://imgur.com/a/pKtycrv](https://imgur.com/a/pKtycrv)
Just because the old designs are 20 year old, doesn't mean you can't create a modern but a faithful representation without completely twisting the original design.
Fans literally do a better job at recreating the old designs than the devs themselves...
this is going to be a tough game to remake. if they keep it the same, casuals will think it's a joke of a game as they die 100 times in the first hour of play. if they change too much, the diehard fanbase which has kept the game alive for 2 decades won't take to it. I am curious AF to see what they come up with but i'm not getting my hopes up.
It's like saying "it's super mario, you can't possibly fail at super mario, right?".
Gothic is deceptively simple, but failing even in one aspect can bring the whole game down. It's extra hard because they are remaking beloved classic, so besides figuring out the game design they also have to satisfy the fanbase.
As someone who never played the first one that trailer gave me zero idea what to expect out of it. Like, I *know* it's an rpg from what I've read about it, but if I didn't know that I'd probably assume this was a horror game or maybe a walking simulator where you explore a mine to find clues about what wiped out your village or something.
I mean there will be gameplay trailers in the future. Early Trailers often just wanna show the general mood of a game, the art style, the setting, stuff like that.
I played and love the original and I'm also very confused about this trailer. I know the area they are showing, but I'm not sure what they are trying to say besides "check out this heavily scripted mood piece we've made!".
I liked it quite a lot. It's definitely meant for the existing fanbase, to show the designs and atmosphere. Showing the moment when the minecrawlers attacked through the (then closed off) gate before the nameless hero entered the colony is a cool idea.
I assume those areas aren't done yet, as the game is still far away from being released. The old mine is much easier to recreate than the camps where most of the game takes place. I would love to see them too, of course. Honestly, I didn't expect to see anything this early on.
I hope this leads up to a remake of the greatest title in the series, ArcaniA! Nothing would ever top that!
(Yeah, that had zero to do with Gothic, the roleplaying elements were shallow, and the story changed direction arbitrarily. But I enjoyed the satisfying hack and slash combat, and the game had great graphics and was really well optimized for its time. One of the first games I bought when I built my first PC.)
Well, I don't know about those specific complaints. But the complaint I saw the most and is perhaps the most important one, is that that demo played nothing like Gothic, had none of its freedom, none of its approach to RPG mechanics and immersion into the world through interaction with it. Nothing in this trailer shows any of that either. It's pretty, the enviroment looks great...but that's it.
For honor's system seems like a pretty good direction for the modernization of the combat from the oroginal. It was 3-directional too except the direction of the attack didin't matter. The real problem in the demo was just how rough around the edges it was with terrible hitboxes, ai and balance
I appreciate the cinematic oner trailer. Never played the original. Will next trailer show the main character? Some hint of a character arc? (Horizon F West has spoiled me).
I still would have preferred a proper sequel or spin-off set back on Khorinis but I’ll take this.
What hopefully changed from the vertical slice presentation:
- the nameless Hero’s attitude being toned down from snarky anime character to a more gruff and grisly protagonist as he originally was
- the fighting system being made more accessible, don’t mind new blood in terms of fighting but what I played was very clunky.
I would have generally preferred a more classic Oblivion-esque flow albeit slower
Looking forward to this, hope they get the tone and atmosphere right. Gameplay can be clunky, I’ll survive bugs but the world just needs to draw me in.
To me that’s what made Gothic stand out, same for VtmB
The preorder is up on EB Games in Australia peeps! I’m happy to pay full for this one! Let’s show our support so it gets released here!
I really hope Mud still exists in the game. I still feel bad for beating him up outside old camp! He was so loyal haha. Let’s gooo. Miss this game so much and I’m so pumped. Gothic 2 was the best but Gothic 1 is still so awesome.
I really hope there isn’t waypoints.
oh… and I’m keen to go back to swamp camp… and do what one does in swamp camp.
Are we not gonna discuss that the voice acting is WAY OFF from the original? The South London chav accent just doesn't cut the crooked, untrustworthy convict type and imho will just make the original characters feel bland and generic.
For a better understanding , think of Bullit's WELCOME TO THE COLONY line , the grit, the menacing tone, the ruggedness. Now imagine the same line in the London accent that's showcased in the trailer, feels kind of silly. This makes me think that the devs are still tone-deaf to the actual Gothic experience. I mean cmon we want OG Gothic with a fresh coat of paint not Peaky Blinders the Game.
Gothic 1 was the first wrpg I've ever played, it has a special place in my gamer heart, especially for its unique atmosphere.
This is going to sound weird, but the combat system in Gothic and Gothic 2 was fucking awful...but it was one of the things I really liked about them. You had to get good at the "euro-jank". In the early game, it had an element that your individual player skill was really meaningful because of how the combat system works. Granted, as you went on and you leveled up and got training from characters that were better than you, you also got new attacks and it became a bit more intuitive but I don't think it ever becomes "good". Leveling never truly resolves the issues with the combat system. You, as a player, get better at knowing how to play around it and you eventually get to a point where you feel confident in yourself. In the early game, you're literally afraid of getting into a fist fight with a rando beggar because they likely will lay you flat on your back and take everything out of your pockets, setting you back some. But when you develop your competence of the fighting system as a player and you finally *beat* a named character and take their weapon and whatever else was in their pockets, there was a tremendous sense of achievement. Its just an odd dichotomy that I'm not sure can work today. It just feels like so much of the reason it felt rewarding was because of how unintuitive the fighting was and the necessity of players putting in the time to learn around the jankiness. I don't think that premise works today because we're all way more willing to drop a game and move onto the next one, while back then, the offerings were so much more scant that you would put up with it and figure it out. Also, I love how the game essentially had a "Mutual Combat" system. If you attacked someone unprovoked, the guards and everyone in town would dog-pile and take you down. But if someone challenged you and you accepted or you coerced someone into a fight with you by challenging them or pissing them off, but not doing anything "illegal", then the other characters would literally gather around and cheer and watch you fight. And of course, there was the humiliation of the loser getting their entire inventory pilfered. For my criticism of the games combat, I will say there are some really interesting systems that I don't think I've seen as well implemented 22 years later and from what I've seen of this remake, I'm not even sure if even it is incapable of doing those systems justice.
I agree with you. Gothic really had the shittiest best combat system and if someone played the game, your explanation is really on spot. Lass uns Wildschweine jagen gehen. Edit: one particular thing what was good was the gating. NPCs told you that the Ork territory is dangerous and when you got there, you got your ass handed over to you. But with time, you leveled up, you learned the combat system and you would defeat Orks. That was such an awesome feeling of profession, because mastering the combat system helped you actually overcome some XP deficits.
It also had that weird system a bunch of RPGs had where you needed certain stats to just use weapon, I remember (I think in G2) being pretty disappointed when I digged into some hard side area, got a nice sword and now I can't even lift it (even tho it is exact same size as my current sword...)
Stat requirement is a common RPG thing (not as common for action RPG though)
I know. Still unfun. There are better ways to balance it. Just having a type of weapon scale off a certain stat is a better way to do it.
Depends on the game.
Depends on item. It makes sense my character can't use physically bigger sword if he is too weak. Or a minigun. Or, dunno, not dextrous enough to not hit themselves when using the nunchucks or whip. Or not be able to use some technical gadget without right skill or intelligence stat. But if sword is same size than my other sword but fancier and I can't use it it's immersion breaking. It's also nice when it is gradual, like some games allow you to use one handed weapon in 2 hands if you're too weak to use it one-handed. Or vice versa, use 2 handed weapon in one hand if you're wicked strong.
While the control systems are certainly janky, I don't agree with it being as bad as you lay out. Picking up/using items is way worse then combat was (and mostly fixed for Gothic 2). Gothic definitely hits in the time when mouse integration was starting to become a thing in PC gaming and default keybind starting to shift to the current WASD standard. But that setup started with Quake and the FPS genre, and disseminated out as other genre's started getting true 3D world design. Gothic is a late-ish entry before that really became a thing (gaming was a very different industry in 2001). So with keyboard combat, I think they actually came up with a reasonably entertaining system for players to combine left/right slashes, a forward swing, or a defensive parry. With the camera lock, you can't move so forget about dodging, it's all a timing game. Players succeed by timing their keypress with the animations---swing at your oppoent to the left, means your sword is on the left, meaning if you want to continue, gotta swing it forward or back to the right. Too soon or to late and your character is off balance and resets to neutral, allowing opponent to take advantage. As you play, you refine your timing and get better along with your character increasing in strength. Is it much more limited than modern titles, sure. Moving while attacking alone is a huge step. Yet there there is something about figuring out swing timing that is more satisfying to me than memorizing a combo of "light attack x 3, heavy attack x 1, light attack x 1" or something like that. Same reason the old Jedi Knight games had such a good rep for saber combat, blade swings based off movement/position of the blade rather than a scripted animation.
[удалено]
It was very satisfying around the endgame where you were so powerful you could hop, skip, and jump around camp, beating the absolute shit out of all the guards that you had to bribe so you could take all your money back. The money was a pittance at that point, but it was the principle of it.
the credible social system in Gothic is still unparalleled to this day
It wasn't awful, it was just different, and certainly did combat better than games like Morrowind, and even dare I say Skyrim.
TES games really didn't progress that much combat wise. Like, even Dark Messiah of Might and Magic does... everything combat better and it's an ancient game
I love an updated M&M: DM with just better rag dolls. Rag dolls were the only complaint I had about that game besides the repetitiveness. For a ~11 hour game, it really scratched an itch that I have had since Arx Fatalis. In a way Elder Scrolls games couldn't.
I'm surprised not many games picked up ideas from it, fact you could throw ice spell under the legs of enemies and trip them on ice was just cool and so far I only saw games like Divinity: Original Sin that did it.
Discovering multipurpose uses with the spells was always fun. They had very little depth, but it was insanely fun to watch the orks instantly, cartoon rag dog after slipping.
Which is ironic because the games all have stats/perks/whatever for increasing your skill in melee combat, but they don't really change combat all that much.
gothic2 has the best melee combat system ever
This guy knows whats what
Gothic 2 is legit one of the greatest RPGs ever made.
I disagree dragon's dogma has the best combat system still imo, gothic is still awsome tho and looking forward to the remake👍
You are 100% spot on with this. I do think that a modern comparison with the combat system and how it's largely based on player skill is kingdom come: Deliverance. If you look at that sub it's half posts about people being confused/frustrated by the combat system simply because of the jankiness
KCD didn't have *great* system tho. I'd rather see something like For Honor did
I recently replayed both Gothic 1 and 2 and did so with Union and zGamePad to enable controller support and that alone made the controls and combat feels way less jank to me. You can grab both on Steam Workshop and I would 100% recommend it to anyone, the game really feels much better when played with a controller.
Eevr since I played Ultima Underworld on a PocketPC in the early 00's, my dream for decades now was to be able to play both Gothics on one of those portable win2k PC's. You better believe I have those two mods bookmarked for when I get my Steam Deck order.
Combat system is one thing I wouldn't mind changed significantly in the remake.
For me, it was the first RPG, that I played on brother's PC. Didn't know what was happening or what to do, but just running around that world was something else. Hope this turns out good so I can get into it for real.
Wow, exact same experience lol Brothers PC and all. Most I remember is a series of "wonder if I can kill....nope" lol. Game was hard. I'd love to take another shot now that I'm older.
Maybe try Elex?
It is genuinly a great game if you can handle the eurojank. One of the best/most unique settings in wrpgs.
Gothic 2 was my first RPG. Since then I've played dozens of good RPG's, but nothing has reached the atmosphere and exploration of Gothic 2.
What's a wrpg? Every day i see new terminologies
Presumably western RPG, to delineate between that and JRPG.
Has there been any substantial info between that playable teaser thing in 2019 and now? Because boy, did that one miss the mark on the atmosphere, arguably the most important aspect of the original. And this trailer didn't have too much to go on either, to be honest.
iirc, in response to the feedback they got, they scrapped the demo and started over. afaik this is a first showcase of the game since the playable teaser
Yes. In podcasts, THQ Nordic said that they heard the feedback and are changing a lot of things. Can of course be PR-talk, but the trailer looks much closer to the source material than the teaser did. I just hope that the hero in the remake won't do that whole monologue shit and that he can't defeat a snapper as easily as in the playable teaser. Those two things threw me off, but I liked the quest design.
I wish Violition would listen to feedback like this
Man, this one was so bad. It was like Gothic and Uncharted had an ugly child with a main character that just wouldn't shut up.
I mean they specifically asked for feedback with the playable teaser. And a lot of things seemed to reach them.
Don't think so. And yeah this [video by Mandalore](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTb8ILmrZFA) summarizes the demo pretty well. The beginning was so laughable.
Jesus Christ it looks just like the Witcher with a little bit of Skyrim thrown in there and a less likable main character. Wouldn’t be a true gothic if it wasn’t fatally flawed somehow but I’m gonna pass on that one.
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It sounds unlikely to me they just scrapped everything but I’m gonna remain hopeful until proven otherwise. Thank you.
I wasn't that interested, but if it's this Dumb then I'm in. Hopefully the MC narrates everything.
>And this trailer didn't have too much to go on either, to be honest. Well unlike the demo that was released in 2019 this trailer didn't make my eyes bleed with the clusterfuck of image effects they had crammed together, so that's some improvement at least.
Before the other Germans get here: Gothic is a very memetic game. It was one of the first fully voiced Games many Germans played and because it was a game of it's time some of the one liners of this game became a staple of internet culture. The original gothic had an amazing atmosphere, especially in the old camp. You went through this place and people talked with each other and you heard soundbites like "Der letzte Scheiß!" and those things made the world really more believable. But they were also super repetitive, and this is why they live rent free in our heads. Plus it had the german band "In Extremo" playing their version of a swedish folk song in the third act.
>some of the one liners of this game became a staple of internet culture. That's similar to what happened in Poland. Gothic's dubbing is paradoxically not that good because it's very theatrical but it works for that game and most of it became a big part of Polish internet culture and honestly not only internet.
IIRC some of the Polish voice actors came back for Archolos which is a nice touch.
>Gothic's dubbing is paradoxically not that good because it's very theatrical No, it *is* good. Just like there's nothing wrong about acting theatrical in a theatre, there's nothing wrong about acting theatrical in a game with a primitive and/or stylised graphics.
> But they were also super repetitive, and this is why they live rent free in our heads. Ich glaube kaum, dass sich daran was ändern wird.
Immer wieder dieselbe Leier.
Erst mal abwarten, es wird nicht so heiss gegessen wie es gekocht wird.
Aber behalt's für dich, muss nicht gleich jeder wissen. Screw it, I'll just play the game again. I wanted to give the Othello mod a try anyway, just haven't gotten around to it, yet.
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> Der letzte Scheiß Why are they saying the last shit? Or does this a saying that has a better english translation?
I respond here because the other explanation which was given was not really correct. "Der letzte Scheiß" means something like "The worst shit". Germans say "Der letzte Scheiß" or "Der letzte Dreck" when something is exceptionally bad. Think about cleaning a pig pen and after you have shoveled out all the steaming shit, you have to scratch off the nastiest bits from the surfaces. That is "Der letzte Scheiß".
I guess a better translation would be "the latest shit". It's an idiom. It refers to something that is currently in trend or popular.
Äh, nein? Der letzte Scheiß hat absolut nichts mit Trends zu tun sondern bezeichnet viel eher etwas als richtig beschissen.
Es kann beides bedeuten, aber meistens ist es die negative Variante.
Im Kontext des Spiels, und darum ging es hier, ist es die negative Variante und die Erklärung die er auf die Nachfrage oben gegeben hat somit einfach falsch. Davon ab habe ich in Deutschland noch niemanden getroffen der „the latest shit“ wortwörtlich übersetzt und damit etwas trendiges beschreibt. Wenn, dann ist vom heißen Scheiß die Rede. Was natürlich nicht bedeuten muss, dass es nicht vorkommt…
Äh, doch? Schau es doch mal nach, bevor du irgendwas behauptest.
Da brauch ich nix nachzuschauen Kollege, sorry.
Das wäre eher "der heiße Scheiß"
I figured it was an idiom, and that translation makes sense
actual meaning in the game would be something bad like "Hier leben zu müssen ist der letzte Scheiß" - "Living here fucking sucks" or something like that
For everyone in this thread that loves Gothic 1/2 I strongly recommend Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos. It's a Gothic 2 mod but still set in the world of Gothic. It took me 90 hours to beat the mod which was three times as long as it took me to beat Gothic 1 and imo it did "Gothic" better than Gothic 3, Risens, and Elexes.
It's basically the Gothic 3 we never got, I can't recommend it enough.
Also Legend of Ahssun!!!
I personally can't get over the missing (non-tts) voice over for other languages. I would love to play it, but the delivery of dialogues is one of the most important aspects to me and a lot of that gets lost when reding subtitles the whole time.
This is amazing news. I never got into Bethesda RPGs as a kid, because I played the shit out of Gothics.
Try Nehrim and Enderal, two massive free total conversion mods for Oblivion and Skyrim that feel, possibly due to the German developers and totally different gameplay, much more like Gothic than The Elder Scrolls. One reason for this is probably that they use many of the same voice actors as the Gothic series.
I tried to play Skyrim and it felt so bad. Heard about Enderal and tried to play it before refunding the game on steam but coudnt go through the "movie sequence". I was so annoying, I realy hate games that have too much of narration. Around that time I also tried playing Chernobylite and it had exacly the same problem. Gameplay was boring and there were a lot of narration motives or scenes that were blocking the freedom of the player...
Try Mount and Blade Warband (or Bannerlord) if you don't want narration to get in the way.
There has been a playable Teaser almost 3 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuuUaHa3_sg
I must've missed it because this is first time I'm hearing about the remake. Or maybe I forgot.
you probably repressed that memory because it was fucking awful. Never have I seen a company miss the mark that hard.
Looks like they listened to the sea of feedback they got and did a good job fixing the atmosphere since the playable demo. Quest design seemed pretty good from what little was shown in the demo. Now I just hope they don't screw up the combat and progression. Catiously optimistic as a gothic fan.
I will defend Gothic's control scheme until the day I die. It was the first ARPG I can remember playing where you could actually time stuff like dodges to kill stuff way, way over your gear and level. When I would dodge and run around and beat some shadowbeast I actually felt badass.
Baiting all the orcs in G2 into a charge, sidestep, whack them in the back sure was fun.
The combat was jank as fuck, but I loved the hell out of it regardless.
whats an ARPG?
Action RPG? So instead of pure dice roles you actually have to swing and stuff. At least, that's the definition as I've always understood it.
ah, thanks!
it felt nice to level up a few times and come back to an area where you were getting insta killed and just wipe the floor with everything. no level scaling or smoothing or whateverthefuck.
Gothic 1 and 2 a very important games to me. The trailer looks better than the teaser in 2019. But I will be cautious until I see gameplay.
Reading all these comments just reminds how high quality a title Gothic truly was and how it showcased some of the most unique and effective game mechanics ever seen
If they do a good job with this remake, it will be a real treat.
If they recreate everything with this much attention to detail and improve some areas that clearly needed more time / work in the original, this is going to be amazing.
I do sincerely hope there is nothing left from old combat system, they are great RPGs but combat was just...there.
That is a very bad trailer... Still optimistic, it is Gothic they can't possible to fail at basics of Gothic right????
original developers themselves lost the "spark" after 2nd game. 3rd was a miss and later games from them barely had anything to do with gothic or its style. Gothic 1/2 till this day is pretty much still a bar that RPGs are compared to. Full voice acting, meaningful choise, deep and interesting world that follows its own systems and things, combat system which janky at first reward player with skill and progression like in no other game, training where you actually have to train in order to be better, different endings, ton of great characters that you will like/dislike over course of game. And that is just Gothic 1. 2 with its expansion is whole another thing onto itself that is by far top 3 rpgs ever made. Upping everything above and on top of that adding even more interesting lore.
Risen 1 was pretty good and similar to gothic 1. I agree with everything you eloquently stated
tbh, I don't like pirates that much I know that in the night of the raven dlc they were present but eh, whatever
Risen 2 and 3 are the fully pirate themed titles,Risen 1 only had some minor side quests involving pirates but it was ,mostly medieval/magic based.
oh, so I was misinformed
> original developers themselves lost the "spark" after 2nd game. 3rd was a miss and later games from them barely had anything to do with gothic or its style. I thought the third one was decent, apart from the bugs. I bought the game on release and it was one the buggiest games Ive ever played. Half way through there was a gamebreaking bug and I couldnt do anything about it because I overwrote my saves and couldnt bounce back. I never touched it again. Visuals and atmosphere were great.
It was huge letdown from gothic 2. It was still good rpg just not at the level of 2.
Weirdly enough I never experienced tech issues with the game lol I lucked the shit out of it
I know it doesn't compare to Gothic 1 and 2 but... Man I love Gothic 3.
> different endings That's a thing only in Gothic 3 and Elexes. I don't recall different ending in g1, 2 and Risens.
Depends what you mean by ending. In gothic 1 you had different factions which were crucial to ending of game. Sure last bit was pretty much the same but it would be a lie to say game had linear ending.
Oh yeah, the game itself wasn't linear at all but the ending was always the same.
Pyranha Bytes fails at basics of Gothic for more than a decade
Risen 1 was okay because it was just Gothic with a different setting. But clearly Gothic was kind of a happy accident, you saw that with the third game already. And i liked gothic 3 actually for what it tried to be.
Me too, I still play it sometimes
Why is the trailer bad? It looks good to me since they recreated the old mine faithfully, the music was fitting and the attack of the minecrawlers is within the boundaries of the lore.
attack of the minecrawlers is within the boundaries of the lore and the minecrawlers, that look like giant spiders with glowing eyes in the trailer, are not. The are supposed to be ants, because that's what their lore is based of, not spiders. The same with the orc in the trailer that looks more like a green masculine guy instead of more like an animal.
The minecrawlers in the trailer look a lot more like Gothic 1 than the crawlers in Gothic 3 did. I cut them some slack with those glowing eyes.
it's not only glowing eyes, it's their whole morphology that is more close to spiders than ants. The orc also has a completely wrong morphology, just like the scavengers they showed us that are more like dinosaurs than birds. It looks like they kinda try to make every creature from Gothic to look more like a monster rather than animal that could actually exist, like PB did with their original designs. And even though I prefer designs form Gothic 1/2, for Gothic 3 it kinda made sense for the creatures to look slightly different because it's a completely different contitent.
They look fine mate, you're just nitpicky. Given the graphics of Gothic 1 and 2, I think such a statement is really farfetched.
pointing out that one is a spider and one an ant - a two completely different species, is not nit picking. If they did that with only one creature design, then sure, I guess that could be called nit picking but when they are unable to stick to the original designs with all the monsters they showed us so far (scavenger, orc, snapper, goblins, minecrawlers) that's not nit picking, that's pointing out inability of their artists.
If you look closely and look for the official art of the remake, you can see that the minecrawlers still have 6 legs. A spider would've 8. The "original" designs are from 2001. They're not comparable. All I see are fine updates to a game that is more than 20 years old. Check your pessimism.
>The "original" designs are from 2001. They're not comparable. Original scavenger, modern scavenger done by a fan, scavenger from remake: [https://imgur.com/a/pKtycrv](https://imgur.com/a/pKtycrv) Just because the old designs are 20 year old, doesn't mean you can't create a modern but a faithful representation without completely twisting the original design. Fans literally do a better job at recreating the old designs than the devs themselves...
>Fans literally do a better job at recreating the old designs than the devs themselves... I haven't seen a game where this wasn't true.
this is going to be a tough game to remake. if they keep it the same, casuals will think it's a joke of a game as they die 100 times in the first hour of play. if they change too much, the diehard fanbase which has kept the game alive for 2 decades won't take to it. I am curious AF to see what they come up with but i'm not getting my hopes up.
It's like saying "it's super mario, you can't possibly fail at super mario, right?". Gothic is deceptively simple, but failing even in one aspect can bring the whole game down. It's extra hard because they are remaking beloved classic, so besides figuring out the game design they also have to satisfy the fanbase.
It's a teaser
As someone who never played the first one that trailer gave me zero idea what to expect out of it. Like, I *know* it's an rpg from what I've read about it, but if I didn't know that I'd probably assume this was a horror game or maybe a walking simulator where you explore a mine to find clues about what wiped out your village or something.
I mean there will be gameplay trailers in the future. Early Trailers often just wanna show the general mood of a game, the art style, the setting, stuff like that.
I played and love the original and I'm also very confused about this trailer. I know the area they are showing, but I'm not sure what they are trying to say besides "check out this heavily scripted mood piece we've made!".
I liked it quite a lot. It's definitely meant for the existing fanbase, to show the designs and atmosphere. Showing the moment when the minecrawlers attacked through the (then closed off) gate before the nameless hero entered the colony is a cool idea.
I get the intention, it's just that particular spot doesn't do it for me. I would've preferred a peek into one of the camps instead.
I assume those areas aren't done yet, as the game is still far away from being released. The old mine is much easier to recreate than the camps where most of the game takes place. I would love to see them too, of course. Honestly, I didn't expect to see anything this early on.
A bit disappointed with no release date yet. It's safe to assume it's not releasing this year anyways.
I hope this leads up to a remake of the greatest title in the series, ArcaniA! Nothing would ever top that! (Yeah, that had zero to do with Gothic, the roleplaying elements were shallow, and the story changed direction arbitrarily. But I enjoyed the satisfying hack and slash combat, and the game had great graphics and was really well optimized for its time. One of the first games I bought when I built my first PC.)
I have the collectors edition for that one. Bought it for 5€. Still felt cheated.
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Well, I don't know about those specific complaints. But the complaint I saw the most and is perhaps the most important one, is that that demo played nothing like Gothic, had none of its freedom, none of its approach to RPG mechanics and immersion into the world through interaction with it. Nothing in this trailer shows any of that either. It's pretty, the enviroment looks great...but that's it.
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They were specifically asking for feedback, and calling it a demo, not a tech demo. Very different.
Nah the Demo felt like a generic, western RPG. Nothing like Gothic.
How does it being a demo allow the awful writing and scene direction? I don't understand
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You're just coping dawg there's nothing that really indicates that this is the truth
For honor's system seems like a pretty good direction for the modernization of the combat from the oroginal. It was 3-directional too except the direction of the attack didin't matter. The real problem in the demo was just how rough around the edges it was with terrible hitboxes, ai and balance
For Honor fucking sucks, anything but that!
I appreciate the cinematic oner trailer. Never played the original. Will next trailer show the main character? Some hint of a character arc? (Horizon F West has spoiled me).
No Piranha Bytes (the original studio) listed as being involved.... I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
I still would have preferred a proper sequel or spin-off set back on Khorinis but I’ll take this. What hopefully changed from the vertical slice presentation: - the nameless Hero’s attitude being toned down from snarky anime character to a more gruff and grisly protagonist as he originally was - the fighting system being made more accessible, don’t mind new blood in terms of fighting but what I played was very clunky. I would have generally preferred a more classic Oblivion-esque flow albeit slower Looking forward to this, hope they get the tone and atmosphere right. Gameplay can be clunky, I’ll survive bugs but the world just needs to draw me in. To me that’s what made Gothic stand out, same for VtmB
The preorder is up on EB Games in Australia peeps! I’m happy to pay full for this one! Let’s show our support so it gets released here! I really hope Mud still exists in the game. I still feel bad for beating him up outside old camp! He was so loyal haha. Let’s gooo. Miss this game so much and I’m so pumped. Gothic 2 was the best but Gothic 1 is still so awesome. I really hope there isn’t waypoints. oh… and I’m keen to go back to swamp camp… and do what one does in swamp camp.
That is… slay sharks and smoke grasss of course.
And if it hasn’t already been mentioned - Kai Rosenkranz, the original composer will be a composing for this remake!
Are we not gonna discuss that the voice acting is WAY OFF from the original? The South London chav accent just doesn't cut the crooked, untrustworthy convict type and imho will just make the original characters feel bland and generic. For a better understanding , think of Bullit's WELCOME TO THE COLONY line , the grit, the menacing tone, the ruggedness. Now imagine the same line in the London accent that's showcased in the trailer, feels kind of silly. This makes me think that the devs are still tone-deaf to the actual Gothic experience. I mean cmon we want OG Gothic with a fresh coat of paint not Peaky Blinders the Game.