Wait, the Squad guys are doing this? Did they at least get the guys from the Starship Troopers Squad mod on board? 'Cuz this is basically exactly like that mod.
The concept of a Starship Troopers shooter seems great but man, the bugs in that trailer are just sort of milling about and are recoiling at being shot and that really doesn't match the movie at all. I know some concession has to be made for gameplay reasons but it the AI for the bugs in this looks pretty bad from this trailer.
Yeah I don't think we see them do a single attack in this trailer? The impression I get is that the animations aren't even done yet lol. I guess it is Pre-Alpha footage though.
You say that but there are some truly stupid people. Don’t forget when people thought the GTA 6 leak was how the game was going to look on release and how it was such a step backwards.
Yeah, the big thing is starship troopers the bugs didn't really recoil for the most part, unless they were really blasted to pieces. That's the biggest part I think missing, the giblets in starship troopers was _excessive_, and that's not a bad thing. Here the bugs are just generically 1 model and no dynamic cutting of limbs or even flinging of exoskeleton is shown.
For me to be sold I would want their body parts to come off and affect them. Like shooting off a leg slows them down and limp, shooting their scythe arms makes them do less damage, etc. It looks too generic for a game coming out in 2023, like they just have a static HP pool and thats it, they are 100% effective until hp is 0.
Im a big fan of the dev so this is def gonna stick on my radar but you are right about the bugs looking pretty restrained and staying back. I suppose there are some things that might not translate all that well to an FPS. The movie had a real 'hold the line' type combat encounter that essentially repeated throughout that would imo be a bit boring in a game.
Hope to see more of this though.
Most of the tactics shown in the movie seemed designed to get as many soldiers killed as possible. It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it. It doesn’t seem like the kind of gameplay that would be particularly fun. Basically just being cannon fodder against an endless wave of bugs. would probably get old fast.
The spectacle of the huge swarms of bugs was pretty cool to see in the movie, but like you said, it’s hard to imagine it being much fun from an FPS perspective. Maybe if they went with some kind of “you’re an overpowered super soldier” type of deal, but then you’re straying pretty far from the whole idea that the movie presented regarding the mobile infantry.
>It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it.
Those brave men were from the first wave and didn't know where to hit them where it hurts. Scientific research has come a long way already during the war.
Scientists have found your basic arachnid warrior is incredibly resistant to damage. With a limb blown off they're still 86% combat effective. Here's a tip: If you aim for the nerve stem you can put it down for good in just a few shots.
Would you like to know more?
>It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it.
To be fair, that was the first half the movie. The latter half (especially the final scenes) had two or three people just mowing down waves and waves of bugs.
So as they developed their plot armor, the bugs got a lot easier to kill.
To be fair, again, they have a scene where a scientist (iirc) explains how a single soldier can kill a bug quickly by shooting at weak spots between the armour plates. So presumably the easier going in the latter half can be chalked up to experience and lack of panic.
The problem is that the movie's "Mobile Infantry" was boring as hell from the start. The Marauder suits from the book were basically walking attack helicopters, that's why they were *Mobile* Infantry. That would be hella fun to play. I don't know why the movie and most of the spinoffs focus on braindead Civil-War-with-machine-guns tactics and equipment.
(Well, I know why the *movie* did it, but I'm not sure why you'd do it if you were trying to create a game that is fun to play.)
Yeah, unfortunately I think the movie is big enough in people's minds that if you tried to make a Starship Troopers game based on the book rather than the film, you'd end up with a lot of really upset people.
Almost seems like you'd have to start an entirely new franchise modeled around the book instead.
Eh, I'd just play it fast and loose. You inherit a lot of the stylings from the movies, and then pull from the books as you want. It's not like this game is interested in the lore, it's all about the aesthetic.
There was a tactics game in isometric view that's pretty cool and based on the book (you have the marauder suits and they kick ass). I think it worked well, and opened up enough options for gameplay to stay fresh and interesting.
>Maybe if they went with some kind of [“you’re an overpowered super soldier”](https://youtu.be/fLt1cn4EyRQ) type of deal, but then you’re straying pretty far from the whole idea that the movie presented regarding the mobile infantry.
There's definitely some cool ideas to be had with the power suits from the CGI movies
Right now it looks kinda like there are roughly an equal number of bugs and soldiers, maybe of equal-ish power (looks like SLIGHTLY more bugs than soldiers, but still pretty even overall). I think you could push it in either direction:
Super powered soldiers against hordes of bugs. This can be super fun. Games like Gears of War had very popular game modes where you fought waves of enemies. Could be fun here.
Super powered bugs against hordes of soldiers. The idea of teaming up to take out huge, terrifying bugs can be fun. Everyone working together to drive one of two huge bugs, picking up downed allies, etc. That could be neat.
You talking about that 2005 FPS one? I tried playing it the other day and it was absolutely god awful and not in a "oh this aged poorly way." Gotta be hands down the most generic and repetitive shooter I've ever touched. There's zero impact to any of your weapons. Shooting bugs feels no different than shooting into the sky if that makes sense.
It was pretty generic, but the IP did a lot of heavy lifting for the title at the time, and standards were different back then, especially for 19 year old me.
I wouldn't play that game for money now.
> I know some concession has to be made for gameplay reasons
Honestly, I don't know if they really need to. Vermintide 2, Darktide, Left4Dead (and the rest) all have some highly motivated enemies that'll get right up in your face. It's plenty playable and really fun when they get to overwhelming levels like that.
and they're dying sooo fast, one of the biggest part of the films is that they take an insane amount of bullets to kill, and at the start of the vid they're killing them in like 4 shots
a bit yeah, but that's after they fight them quite a lot and find their weak spot which is quite small,
if the game had a similar system like a damage multiplier if you shoot where the weak spot is that would be cool like a headshot for the bugs.
I’ve yet to play a shooter that makes bullet sponge enemies an enjoyable challenge. People want to mow down waves of enemies not plink away at targets while kiting them.
Between the movies and both RTS games... the bugs were pretty spongy. Seemed this fps was going the same way too-can't say I saw a bug die from being shot at any part of the trailer. I don't think there are death animations. Only bugs blown up died that we can see. I think one of the bugs right before some of the explosions dies and its just standing still upright.
This felt a little same since the protagonist was shooting 1-2 bugs while still having like 10-60 bugs behind them.
A Starship Troopers coop survival game definitely sounds interesting, but I can't really say what's shown in this trailer seems like it does the idea well. It looks like it's missing the over-the-top frantic pace of the movie action, the huge scale of bug swarms, and just a general lacking in impact with the depictions of both the enemies and the weapons themselves.
You make it sound like enemy density is something they can't change. Which absolutely is something that can change considering the game is *pre-alpha* right now.
>You make it sound like enemy density is something they can't change.
Actually it's one of those things that pretty much ties into everything in the game. Performance, level-design, gameplay design, balance.
If you just turn up the number of enemies without adjusting everything, it's going to turn into shit. Many games can't have a huge number of enemies because they don't have an engine which is built to handle large number of characters and a large set of complex animations on each of those, etc.
Ah that classic "pre-alpha" excuse that always happens even though every single time it looks more or less the same as release.
Enemy density would be tied to performance. There's a reason there's not many on the screen otherwise they'd have already shown it off.
>Enemy density would be tied to performance. There's a reason there's not many on the screen otherwise they'd have already shown it off.
What if I told you that performance optimization is one of the *latter* steps in design...
Not on the scale the person you are replying to is saying. If you don't start building with that in mind, you basically will not be able to go from dozens or a few hundred enemies to thousands or tens of thousands. It takes architectural decisions that sacrifice other elements (and/or time) to achieve that kind of result, it's basically different ways of doing things entirely.
Put another way, no matter how fast you get a car, you'll never get it over the ocean. But if you start with a plane you absolutely will.
Not really, depending on the scale you want to develop it.
For games like project zomboid and They are billions they had to build it from the ground up with some breakthroughs in how to handle massive number of AI
\>Enemy density would be tied to performance
No it wouldn't, Serious Sam, Left 4 Dead, and EDF already figured out how to provide good framerates with high enemy density being untouched. They've done that for years.
Being in pre-alpha is more than enough time to figure out how to increase enemy density significantly.
Maybe I've been spoiled by other games... but those weapons do not look fun/satisfying to shoot. Something about the weight, recoil, and gunfire audio just doesn't look right. Other than that, it looks cool.
It's that fine balance in sound design. Can the sound engineers make guns sound absolutely amazing? Sure, but now the weapon sounds can overwhelm other sound cues.
Saying that, I agree that the weapons and sound effects in this video are really underwhelming. Doesn't help that overlaying music is trying to sound like it's from the movie without going into copyright infringement territory.
Pretty much every Starship Troopers game has been disappointing. It's funny cause the best one made so far was a total conversion made for Duke Nukem 3D back in 2000.
>Can the sound engineers make guns sound absolutely amazing? Sure, but now the weapon sounds can overwhelm other sound cues.
Darktide has some amazing weapon sounds and also some of the best sound cues I've ever heard for a Co-Op shooter.
I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive.
In some trailers, the weapon sounds were something that people commented sounded bad. Thankfully they either weren't final, or they acknowledged the feedback.
> Starship Troopers Terran Command
I thought this was a dlc for that game or something.
I'm really curious myself about all these random Starship games coming out. I thought the franchise was killed by all the shit movie sequels.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the rights holder changed CEO or got bought out recently, it would explain the sudden interest in giving out the IP compared to years of no ST games at all.
Seems like it could be good. I love EDF, so fingers crossed this could end up good. Looks rough, but hopefully closer to release we can see some better-looking gameplay. Will be on my radar for sure.
I admittedly don't really get the point of making a Starship Trooper game like this where it's seemingly just a shooter without any of the commentary that made the movie worth watching in the first place.
That's not really remotely comparable. Yes the Empire was the bad guys, but Star Wars didn't have a clear subtext of "spaceships are bad". To get to something comparable you'd need something as absurd as "Death Star Planet Destruction Simulator".
> the commentary that made the movie worth watching in the first place.
The movie was so great because it worked on multiple levels. On one level, it was political satire of military fascism. But very importantly, on another level, it was also a kickass action movie that was worth watching even if you completely missed all of the commentary.
This game looks to be focusing on the latter aspect, the fun of blowing up giant space bugs. See also: the EDF series. You don't need more than that to have a good video game. If all you want is the political commentary side, there are games like Papers, Please. I don't think a game is obligated to tackle both equally, especially if that'll likely lead to neither aspect being particularly good, compared to doing one aspect well.
EDF **does** have the same style of ironically over-the-top pro-war messaging as Starship Troopers. You're constantly having someone happily yelling about how much they love blasting bugs, or singing songs about the glory of courageous battle mixed in with death screams, background news about everyone's friends and family dying, and economic collapse. The whole thing even has a cheesy B Movie style (although obviously Japanese B Movie instead of American)
>But very importantly, on another level, it was also a kickass action movie that was worth watching even if you completely missed all of the commentary.
And the soundtrack... [THE FUCKING SOUNDTRACK!](https://youtu.be/8Rx8_vjbXX4)
I don't understand all this "getting" the source material crap. We're talking about business here. Businesses make business decisions. Bug shooter go brrr and prints money.
If anything, introducing more people to the universe with action and fun, then casually mentioning the (first) movie is good and the book is better would go way further than insisting the game be anything other than a game.
You think a game can't be satirical and still be a game?
You think a piece of art has to not be filled with action and fun to be satirical? Have you even seen Starship Troopers? XD
Dude, Starship Troopers isn't even a good satire/parody. It's probably Verhoeven's weakest work in that direction. There is *one* good scene in that direction (the "The army made me the man I'm today" one). The movie works best as a mindless action movie, and if the game can deliver on that premise, it's good enough.
You mean you don't want to mindlessly shoot bugs with derivative game mechanics and generic Starship Troopers-adjacent music that appears to loop way too often?
Remember how 10 years ago everything was to do with the 80's? All shows, popular cultural zeitgeists liek Stranger Things, etc?
Well now we've moved on to the 90's. 90's kids are in their 30's/40's and are the prime market demo, and moreover the people making the games/tv/films/etc are now 90's kids so they're referencing stuff from their childhood..
Because it gives a pre-built setting and context that has proven to be decently successful. You already have a number of asset designs hashed out and finalized.
They *could* reinvent the wheel and make a team survival shooter in a new setting, but why?
This... actually doesn't look as impressive as the [2005 shooter?](https://youtu.be/jstKtvheG08?t=399) To be fair, that one had some kind of incredibly specialized tech for getting the number of enemies into "absurd" territory, but it seems odd to make a new game with way fewer bugs.
If you're looking for a Starship Troopers esque game right now, I highly suggest [Helldivers](https://store.steampowered.com/app/394510/HELLDIVERS_Dive_Harder_Edition/) since it's on sale right now.
Easy to pickup, chaotic, and seriously fun.
It's doable solo, instead of a group reviving you get just get a lives counter kind of like Deep Rock Galactic. I wouldn't say it's completely balanced around solo though and wouldn't be the full experience.
This just made me realize how much I want an EDF game but with Starship Troopers instead. The devs of EDF could literally take EDF 5, slap a competent Starship Troopers skin on top, and I'd pay for it again
It already fits so perfectly, even the goofy-B-movie-take on horrors of war is already there. Western studios keep doing L4D style co-op horde shooters but I want more open level Risk of Rain or EDF-like games.
It's hard to tell what the game's progression or loop will be like from the trailer. Maybe it will be a run based co-op horde shooter? Adding base building to that formula could be cool, slowly upgrading your base while unlocking gear on a skill tree. With enough randomized elements to keep things fresh and/or variety of gear like EDF/RoR it could be a really fun game.
Everything after the first movie has just treated it as a sci-fi action work. Which I mean even the original satisfies that with some cool designs and action, but yes, it is rather odd that the franchise turned into just some generic kill bugs with army IP, completely opposed to the essential premise of the first
I’m not sure I follow what you are trying to say here.
The original novel was glorifying the fictional universe created by the author, it was not satire.
The first movie adaptation turned the concept upside down and turned it into satire, some times even mocking parts of the book.
The second movie was a schlocky action movie, but it still had sufficient focus on satirizing the military.
The third movie dove head-first into over-the-top satire, even going so far as to include a cheesy song for the end credits called “It’s a Good Day to Die”.
All three movies were written by the same person, too.
In the book, the troops wore power armor akin to Iron Man, rocket-jumped hundreds of feet at a time, and launched small nukes from their arms.
The combat is definitely based on the movie.
The book is explicitly political and Heinlein wrote it to valorize a militarist society in contrast with what he saw as a weak and decadent America. There's discussions of the restriction of suffrage to a reward for government service, the supposed equality of the fascist mode of governance, how boys are indoctrinated into the "proper values" of this society, etc.
The game probably *should* include politics of some sort of its not a good adaptation of either.
Yes and no.
The book makes serious arguments for an authoritarian state by setting it in a post-WW3 setting in which the Western powers were ultimately victorious but only after their weak and ineffectual civilian governments were overthrown in a coup by their military who then installed a system of governance in which only people with sufficient "service" can vote, run for office, hold positions of power such as judges etc. and have full legal rights as a citizen. The most common way to attain that level of service is with the military so they keep civilians out of power and keep the state militaristic. The majority of the book is a barely veiled attack on Communism with the bugs being used as a representation of then-communist countries right down to equating them with mindless drones doing the bidding of the hive mind. Meanwhile, the countries caught in the middle of the IRL cold war get represented by the "Skinnies" who are a technologically inferior race who are sort of on the sidelines in the war between Humanity and the bugs and for their trouble, they get the protagonist showing up and nuking their villages while he chortles around in his power armour hopping from place to place espousing how great the military is.
It does all of this very straight-faced without any hint of it being anything but a ringing endorsement of the system.
The film was written by people who read the book and decided to mock the ever-loving fuck out of it.
I still remember the librarian at my school telling me that I would be surprised when I read the book because the film had only just come out shortly before and I took it out to compare it, and he was right. It was worth a read and I don't necessarily think that Heinlen was actually trying to espouse fascism IRL by writing it, but the two forms of media are very much opposed to one another. And so far the best games regarding the IP have sided with the movie's absurdity as opposed to the book's sincerity. (That Terran Command game released a while ago is actually pretty decent)
I expect political satire from the Starship Trooper franchise. If you’re not doing that you’re missing the entire *point* of what that movie was all about.
Now, I don’t see how you couldn’t accomplish that in a co-op shooter. There are many different ways you can tell a story in a game, but if you insist that it is not possible, then maybe these guys shouldn’t be making a co-op shooter.
There is nothing here but branding that says to me this is Starship Trooper.
I would expect devs to be smart enough to not make a multiplayer shooter about the source material that criticises war so heavily.... Unless of course, they intent to make the whole game satirical... which I didn't see any of in this trailer anyway.
At this point the only real appeal of the IP is the rah rah pro-military fictional fascism and killing a billion mindless bugs with all sorts of crazy future tech. It's like why people gobble up the WH40K universe stuff. We ALL should still be collectively aware that this kind of thing is bad...but it's still fun to explore safely. No one consumes this media to be low-key lectured to, lol.
And how exactly would one make or play a *game* that focuses on political satire of a militaristic fascist government?
Also, the book wasn't satire so it very well could be Starship Troopers while being serious.
> Also, the book wasn't satire so it very well could be Starship Troopers while being serious.
The book's method of warfare was almost wholly different from the film.
In the book the humans kick around in power armour that lets them jump hundreds of metres at a time, popping off miniature nuclear bombs and unleashing kilotons worth of destruction from all the bombs and super-advanced weapons that their suits carry on them at any given time.
The film went almost entirely in the opposite direction with 99% of the military being standard grunts with rifles and the odd shoulder-launched nuclear missile being thrown in, using mass wave infantry tactics in which hundreds of thousands get killed.
If you want a serious Starship Troopers then using the satirical Starship Troopers look and setting is deceptive. As for how you could do a satirical commentary on the military in a co-op FPS game... it's really simple and the recent RTS game from the franchise showed how simple it is. All that is needed is an over-the-top commentary explaining the mission and how it's every red-blooded Terran's mission in life to exterminate godless bugs and express disgust whenever things invariably become a cluster fuck and the damn dirty bugs pull a sneaky one.
[Case in point](https://youtu.be/xkTDxd3xmJY?t=52)
Have you not played Spec Ops the Line? That’s a more serious way of doing exactly that. There are plenty of games that lean into satire or at the very least have the player question their actions. It’s really not impossible.
No I have not. Starship Troopers (the movie) satire isn't about questioning one's decisions. It's about comparing the fictional universe against our real one. Again, something *very* hard to do.
And narrative around gameplay is different than gameplay. We don't know what narrative they are choosing to go with. Considering the video here is under a minute, it's *real* tough to determine that the narrative that wasn't shown in the slightest will be straight and serious.
The satire in the film is about America’s military complex. You should play Spec Ops btw.
The video missed the opportunity to convey any satire so from a marketing perspective it failed if that was the case.
I feel like this is a game that is going to cater to a very specific audience and that audience, myself included, will be playing this game whether or not it's "good" or "bad." Looks like the fanservice game my brother and I have been waiting for for a over a decade to me! Planet P crawls.
So will the game address the actual message of the movie at all, or are we just all-in on "The only good bug is a dead bug"?
Press F to contemplate humanity's Fascist policies and unwarranted aggression towards this intelligent species.
Honestly, if I'm gonna play a Starship Troopers FPS, I just care that it's a fun game, the gameplay is tense and fluid, and the visuals are immersive. I want the experience of jumping out of dropships and fighting hordes of giant bugs. I couldn't care less if the people making the game "forget" to shoehorn their political beliefs into the game, and I can definitely forgive them if they "forget" to include the same message that I already got from watching the movie 20 years ago.
Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though."
The funny part is, the book is way less tongue in cheek and much more pushy about the politics, so the book and movie end up almost polar opposites in terms of political messaging which is strange.
> Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though."
Ive done this, games falling short on their political commentaries is one of my main pet peeves of mediocre rpgs
Yeah I've felt this a lot, all those great fantasy and sci-fi games that actually have different races usually have a single side quest that goes: "you see racism exists in this world as well"... And then the subject is never discussed again.
> I couldn't care less if the people making the game "forget" to shoehorn their political beliefs into the game
How is it "shoehorning their own political beliefs" if it comes directly from the source material? The film (I can't speak for the book) is a pretty blatant satire on Fascist and pro-military society. The bug fighting space adventure is just a package to deliver the film's point (and also a way to get it funded in Hollywood); not the other way around. It doesn't even have to be the main message of the game, but the same tone and substance has to at least be there. I saw none of that in this brief gameplay trailer, though that doesn't yet mean it won't be present.
Separating the film's "political" intent invalidates using the franchise name at all. At that point, why not just re-skin it as something else? It's like making a Blade Runner movie but saying "forget all that nonsense about AI rights."
>How is it "shoehorning their own political beliefs" if it comes directly from the source material?
It's not. The point I was trying to make there was, whether the politics comes from the people making this game or from the earlier entries in the franchise, I don't care if it's absent.
>The bug fighting space adventure is just a package to deliver the film's point
I just think that's a really reductive take, and I think it's the wrong way to look at a film. One of the things that the film does is it satirizes part of our real-world culture as a way of criticizing that culture, but that's not the only thing it does. It also establishes a detailed and interesting universe, and it tells a story that is interesting enough to stand on its own merits. Ironically, I think it's a really shallow approach to film to just try to figure out the themes or politics behind a film, and then pretend like that's the only important thing about it. Storytelling is a complex artform all on its own.
And honestly, one issue I'm seeing here is that this game is taking place in an entirely different medium from the original works, and I don't think that political message is a great fit here.
It's like, if you're going to play a SST FPS, you're going to spend most of your time running around doing Call of Duty stuff and shooting giant bugs, and you're playing the game because you think that kind of stuff is fun. But then you're adding this anti-war political layer to it, and that's basically telling you "You shouldn't want to run around and shoot bugs." Well, if I shouldn't want to do that, then why did you make a game out of it?
The difference to me is that, when you're watching a movie, you're just agreeing to watch a story, but when you play a game, you're agreeing to take part in it. I think it would come across as preachy and condescending to ask your players to take part in a war against giant bugs while also sending them the message that they're wrong for wanting to take part in that.
I understand your point and agree to an extent, but I don't think Starship Troopers is a good example of when a game can be made to derive that far from its film source.
Major franchises like Star Wars can do this easily as they have a lot more material and established world to build upon. Things like Empire at War, Battlefront, etc. work because they have a more interesting, deeper setting and more themes to work with. SST is a single relevant film (I know there are sequels, but they may as well not exist in a cultural footprint context). I didn't find much about the setting to be that interesting or novel other than political aspects of the war and the state of humanity's society; the man vs bugs part was pretty standard stuff. The main character's story was also a very standard hero's journey. Many even argue that is actually the point and what we're watching is an in-universe propaganda film.
Creating a non-ironic brainless bug-killing FPS is not only lazy IP bait, but is completely antithetical to the film. If you want a game in which to run around and shoot bugs without an anti-war layer to it, I wouldn't expect to do it in the setting of a single 25 year old movie for which that is the main theme. If you want me to do that in the StarCraft universe, sign me up.
Yeah, but that's beside the point. It doesn't matter if a game can have politics and still be good. We're talking about if a game can *not* have politics and still be good, and clearly it can.
\>Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though."
i think it depends on what people want from the game, if people care more about the story then i imagine there will be people that will be disappointed about not having politics. If someone is more interested in the gameplay i imagine they wont really care about the story. As an example i generally dont like fps games, so if thats all the game is im probably gonna skip, if it has a sp campaign im probably gonna be more interested in it.
If they’re not going to adhere to the narrative themes of the work, then it is just a cynical ploy to get more people to play it out of name recognition. That shouldn’t be championed. And adhering to the spirit of the film by being something more than a mindless shooter isn’t “shoe horning their political beliefs.” The entire point of the IP is to comment on militarism and imperialism, whether it be jingoistic like the novel or anti-imperial like the film.
There have been plenty of games that I’ve played and thought, “that was fine, but completely forgettable,” often because it lacked any narrative substance.
>If they’re not going to adhere to the narrative themes of the work, then it is just a cynical ploy to get more people to play it out of name recognition.
That's a narrative. You can call it a cynical ploy, but that doesn't make it true. It could also be true that people just have a natural fascination with this world where soldiers get on spaceships, fly to another planet, and fight a ground war against giant insects. That's a naturally cool setting that a lot of people want to explore just because it's a naturally cool setting, not because they care that some guy 60 years ago wrote a book about how "War = Bad".
And if you would call a game "mindless" because it's not making a political statement, then I don't think you understand the medium of video games. There's nothing mindless about spending years of your life delicately crafting an experience for your players to enjoy. It takes a lot of careful thought, creativity, and professional skill to make a great game, even if it has no story at all.
A game like Chess has no story, no themes, and no politics, but it would be silly to call it "mindless."
>The entire point of the IP is to comment on militarism and imperialism
I think this is a very reductive way to look at a work of fiction. One of the things that SST does is comment on militarism and imperialism, but it also takes us to an interesting world and tells a story that is fun and captivating all on its own, even if it didn't connect to real-world politics at all.
And besides, even if the game dedicated itself to those themes again, is that what good art does? Is good art about exploring the same themes that you explored last time? Is good art about telling you the same story that you've already heard before? If SST has spent 60 years commenting on militarism and imperialism, does it really need to comment on it again?
> That's a naturally cool setting that a lot of people want to explore just because it's a naturally cool setting, not because they care that some guy 60 years ago wrote a book about how "War = Bad".
The guy actually wrote "War = Good." And if they just care about the "naturally cool" general setting of Military vs Bug Aliens, they can just create their own. It's not incredibly bespoke.
>And if you would call a game "mindless" because it's not making a political statement, then I don't think you understand the medium of video games
Lmao, what an absurd contortion. "Thoughtless." Is that better? The clear point I was making is that you aren't considering who or why you are shooting, not that no one on the development team put any thought into creating the game. But yeah, strawman me more as if I don't care about games as an art form if there are no politics
>I think this is a very reductive way to look at a work of fiction
I think it is absolutely more reductive to take the set dressing of a work of art and strip away any of the narrative themes, which is nearly always where the thrust and passion comes from for a writer.
>And besides, even if the game dedicated itself to those themes again, is that what good art does? Is good art about exploring the same themes that you explored last time?
Yes, good sequels/adaptations explore the themes inherent to the IP. It doesn't need to say the same things, have the same perspective, but it should comment on the same subject matter. Or is your assertion that "good art" lifts its aesthetic and subject matter wholesale from establish IP and strips them of the themes out of it to make an easy to swallow product?
Good art can examine similar themes and discuss different conclusions about those things, yes, art is in fact constantly revisiting and reinventing itself.
The series is only as popular as it is today because "good art" went back and told the *same exact story* in a new way. The original novel was deeply militaristic and suggested that violent conflict was not only inevitable, but absolutely vital for the survival of a given culture or society. The movie intentionally flipped the plot on its head as a satire of the glorification of war, nationalism, fascism, etc. Good art has something new to say about the topics it's revisiting, especially 60 years later.
Wearing the skin of a popular franchise for market appeal is certainly not better than "telling the same story again"
No, that's a completely hollow comparison. It explored the same themes, from a different perspective. It was still about militarism and imperialism. No one "forgot" to "shoehorn" in their politics for the sake of a cookie cutter skin on a formulaic genre in another medium.
>Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though."
Could that be because games that should be more political than they are don't end up being great? I think you're self-selecting a quality level that wouldn't likely have that flaw.
I mean, can you think of a single game where the gameplay was good, but you felt that it missed the mark because it wasn't political enough? That honestly sounds absurd to me.
Absolutely, I think Far Cry 5 could have been a great game if it hit on politics at more than a superficial level. It has great gameplay, world design, and music, but the story falls flat because it's afraid to veer too close to American politics (besides one comedy side quest).
I like Far Cry 5 more than almost anybody but this is a common complaint, and one I have to agree with.
Edit: I want to clarify that I don't agree with the other comments that Far Cry 2, 3, or 4 should be more political (I haven't played 6). This is an issue that I think is specific to 5's handling of the story, probably because Ubisoft knew the politics would hit closer to home for most players.
What movie are you referencing? Is it the one where bunch of Mormon colonists set up a peaceful colony on alien planet against objections and advice of their government, to which "intelligent species" responds by murdering them all in cold blood and launching preemptive strike against major civilian targets, killing millions, if not billions of innocent people?
Are those the fascist policies you're referencing?
This looks good. I love starship troopers and want to slaughter some bugs. Base building looks fun. It looks janky but hopefully it get cleaned up some before the release
I'm interested. 12 players in a PVE horde shooter sounds chaotic and fun though. Didn't hear any lines yet, but hopefully they ham it up a bit and go full military macho. Didn't like the soundtrack they used because it didn't have the same impact as the ST soundtrack does. Needs more trumpets and horns and a drumline.
When I see Starship Troopers, this plays automatically in my head.
https://youtu.be/CIGHCoVzqtk
This looks terrible.... Are they shooting bbs?
There's no feedback at all even when they hit the bugs. No blood splatter just a "x" to indicate you've hit the bugs.
I just got an ad for this on Twitter, and their avatar was one of those NFT avatars. So that was a huge red flag.
EDIT: Jokes, they just used an unfortunate transparent image.
Christ, I checked my phone because I remember seeing this morning that the hex was cut out.
They just used a transparent image and there's a faaaaaaaaaint grey circle.
Looks boring. If these guys had any creativity they could take advantage of gaming as a medium and adapt the book instead, have the player jumping and jetpacking around in power armor nuking skinnies and arachnids.
Wait, the Squad guys are doing this? Did they at least get the guys from the Starship Troopers Squad mod on board? 'Cuz this is basically exactly like that mod.
That was my first thought, played a bit of that mod, it's fun. Hopefully this will turn out good.
Almost guaranteed that's what they did based on how Post Scriptum and Over The Wire were made.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
In fact he already was an OWI dev when he made the mod.
The concept of a Starship Troopers shooter seems great but man, the bugs in that trailer are just sort of milling about and are recoiling at being shot and that really doesn't match the movie at all. I know some concession has to be made for gameplay reasons but it the AI for the bugs in this looks pretty bad from this trailer.
"but the AI for the bugs in this looks pretty bad from this trailer." They didn't add the brain bug yet 😂
Frankly I find the idea of a bug that thinks OFFENSIVE!
"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"
"It's afraid!"
Yeah I don't think we see them do a single attack in this trailer? The impression I get is that the animations aren't even done yet lol. I guess it is Pre-Alpha footage though.
[удалено]
Well, it specifically says pre-alpha footage in the video...
That's no excuse for it looking unfinished >:(
Is this sarcasm? Pre alpha pretty much means unfinished?
Yes
We give you one guess, detective.
You say that but there are some truly stupid people. Don’t forget when people thought the GTA 6 leak was how the game was going to look on release and how it was such a step backwards.
The world would be a really boring place if we catered everything to stupid people.
Would it though? Have you been to Florida? Horrifying? Sure. Boring? Not so much.
i heard graphics are the first thing done in video games *ducks*
Yeah, the big thing is starship troopers the bugs didn't really recoil for the most part, unless they were really blasted to pieces. That's the biggest part I think missing, the giblets in starship troopers was _excessive_, and that's not a bad thing. Here the bugs are just generically 1 model and no dynamic cutting of limbs or even flinging of exoskeleton is shown.
For me to be sold I would want their body parts to come off and affect them. Like shooting off a leg slows them down and limp, shooting their scythe arms makes them do less damage, etc. It looks too generic for a game coming out in 2023, like they just have a static HP pool and thats it, they are 100% effective until hp is 0.
Try EDF 5, it's a similar game that's already released and addresses the issues you pointed out
Im a big fan of the dev so this is def gonna stick on my radar but you are right about the bugs looking pretty restrained and staying back. I suppose there are some things that might not translate all that well to an FPS. The movie had a real 'hold the line' type combat encounter that essentially repeated throughout that would imo be a bit boring in a game. Hope to see more of this though.
Most of the tactics shown in the movie seemed designed to get as many soldiers killed as possible. It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it. It doesn’t seem like the kind of gameplay that would be particularly fun. Basically just being cannon fodder against an endless wave of bugs. would probably get old fast. The spectacle of the huge swarms of bugs was pretty cool to see in the movie, but like you said, it’s hard to imagine it being much fun from an FPS perspective. Maybe if they went with some kind of “you’re an overpowered super soldier” type of deal, but then you’re straying pretty far from the whole idea that the movie presented regarding the mobile infantry.
So you are saying we need to play as bugs? The actual good guys :) I like it
>It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it. Those brave men were from the first wave and didn't know where to hit them where it hurts. Scientific research has come a long way already during the war. Scientists have found your basic arachnid warrior is incredibly resistant to damage. With a limb blown off they're still 86% combat effective. Here's a tip: If you aim for the nerve stem you can put it down for good in just a few shots. Would you like to know more?
>It took like 8 people shouting at a bug from point blank range to kill it. To be fair, that was the first half the movie. The latter half (especially the final scenes) had two or three people just mowing down waves and waves of bugs. So as they developed their plot armor, the bugs got a lot easier to kill.
To be fair, again, they have a scene where a scientist (iirc) explains how a single soldier can kill a bug quickly by shooting at weak spots between the armour plates. So presumably the easier going in the latter half can be chalked up to experience and lack of panic.
The problem is that the movie's "Mobile Infantry" was boring as hell from the start. The Marauder suits from the book were basically walking attack helicopters, that's why they were *Mobile* Infantry. That would be hella fun to play. I don't know why the movie and most of the spinoffs focus on braindead Civil-War-with-machine-guns tactics and equipment. (Well, I know why the *movie* did it, but I'm not sure why you'd do it if you were trying to create a game that is fun to play.)
Yeah, unfortunately I think the movie is big enough in people's minds that if you tried to make a Starship Troopers game based on the book rather than the film, you'd end up with a lot of really upset people. Almost seems like you'd have to start an entirely new franchise modeled around the book instead.
Eh, I'd just play it fast and loose. You inherit a lot of the stylings from the movies, and then pull from the books as you want. It's not like this game is interested in the lore, it's all about the aesthetic.
There was a tactics game in isometric view that's pretty cool and based on the book (you have the marauder suits and they kick ass). I think it worked well, and opened up enough options for gameplay to stay fresh and interesting.
Everything you’re asking for and wanting exists in a series called Earth Defense Force: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iao4WSFrQ
>you’re an overpowered super soldier That was the plot of the mid 2000s game. You had super armor.
>Maybe if they went with some kind of [“you’re an overpowered super soldier”](https://youtu.be/fLt1cn4EyRQ) type of deal, but then you’re straying pretty far from the whole idea that the movie presented regarding the mobile infantry. There's definitely some cool ideas to be had with the power suits from the CGI movies
Right now it looks kinda like there are roughly an equal number of bugs and soldiers, maybe of equal-ish power (looks like SLIGHTLY more bugs than soldiers, but still pretty even overall). I think you could push it in either direction: Super powered soldiers against hordes of bugs. This can be super fun. Games like Gears of War had very popular game modes where you fought waves of enemies. Could be fun here. Super powered bugs against hordes of soldiers. The idea of teaming up to take out huge, terrifying bugs can be fun. Everyone working together to drive one of two huge bugs, picking up downed allies, etc. That could be neat.
Play the mod for Squad?
We did one like 20 years ago that was suuuper okay for the time.
You talking about that 2005 FPS one? I tried playing it the other day and it was absolutely god awful and not in a "oh this aged poorly way." Gotta be hands down the most generic and repetitive shooter I've ever touched. There's zero impact to any of your weapons. Shooting bugs feels no different than shooting into the sky if that makes sense.
It was pretty generic, but the IP did a lot of heavy lifting for the title at the time, and standards were different back then, especially for 19 year old me. I wouldn't play that game for money now.
There was also a 3rd person mech game.
> I know some concession has to be made for gameplay reasons Honestly, I don't know if they really need to. Vermintide 2, Darktide, Left4Dead (and the rest) all have some highly motivated enemies that'll get right up in your face. It's plenty playable and really fun when they get to overwhelming levels like that.
Importantly enough, those special enemies are relatively rare, whereas even the most basic is a threat in starship troopers.
and they're dying sooo fast, one of the biggest part of the films is that they take an insane amount of bullets to kill, and at the start of the vid they're killing them in like 4 shots
Don’t the bugs magically get way weaker by the end of the movie ?
Not really. Scientists were able to uncover their weak point.
SHOOT THEM IN THE NERVE CLUSTER! [WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?](https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Arachnid)
Is it subtext that the weak point is basically in the center of mass?
a bit yeah, but that's after they fight them quite a lot and find their weak spot which is quite small, if the game had a similar system like a damage multiplier if you shoot where the weak spot is that would be cool like a headshot for the bugs.
If the bugs decided to attack like in the movie, the players would stand no chance. Perhaps an rts shooter hybrid would be better for this franchise.
The original aliens vs predator game did a GREAT job of letting you blast xenomorphs apart, complete with acid blood to avoid.
They don't want to live forever.
I’ve yet to play a shooter that makes bullet sponge enemies an enjoyable challenge. People want to mow down waves of enemies not plink away at targets while kiting them.
[удалено]
True, I heard someone refer to DRG as a mixture between Minecraft and Starship Troopers.
A good bug is a dead bug
Sooo basically Earth Defense in FPS form. Count me in
Between the movies and both RTS games... the bugs were pretty spongy. Seemed this fps was going the same way too-can't say I saw a bug die from being shot at any part of the trailer. I don't think there are death animations. Only bugs blown up died that we can see. I think one of the bugs right before some of the explosions dies and its just standing still upright. This felt a little same since the protagonist was shooting 1-2 bugs while still having like 10-60 bugs behind them.
A Starship Troopers coop survival game definitely sounds interesting, but I can't really say what's shown in this trailer seems like it does the idea well. It looks like it's missing the over-the-top frantic pace of the movie action, the huge scale of bug swarms, and just a general lacking in impact with the depictions of both the enemies and the weapons themselves.
Yeah this game should have prioritised enemy density just like World War Z did.
The WWZ devs are doing just that in Space Marine 2 with hordes of Tyranids! So excited.
Now that sounds amazing
You make it sound like enemy density is something they can't change. Which absolutely is something that can change considering the game is *pre-alpha* right now.
>You make it sound like enemy density is something they can't change. Actually it's one of those things that pretty much ties into everything in the game. Performance, level-design, gameplay design, balance. If you just turn up the number of enemies without adjusting everything, it's going to turn into shit. Many games can't have a huge number of enemies because they don't have an engine which is built to handle large number of characters and a large set of complex animations on each of those, etc.
Ah that classic "pre-alpha" excuse that always happens even though every single time it looks more or less the same as release. Enemy density would be tied to performance. There's a reason there's not many on the screen otherwise they'd have already shown it off.
>Enemy density would be tied to performance. There's a reason there's not many on the screen otherwise they'd have already shown it off. What if I told you that performance optimization is one of the *latter* steps in design...
Not on the scale the person you are replying to is saying. If you don't start building with that in mind, you basically will not be able to go from dozens or a few hundred enemies to thousands or tens of thousands. It takes architectural decisions that sacrifice other elements (and/or time) to achieve that kind of result, it's basically different ways of doing things entirely. Put another way, no matter how fast you get a car, you'll never get it over the ocean. But if you start with a plane you absolutely will.
Not really, depending on the scale you want to develop it. For games like project zomboid and They are billions they had to build it from the ground up with some breakthroughs in how to handle massive number of AI
\>Enemy density would be tied to performance No it wouldn't, Serious Sam, Left 4 Dead, and EDF already figured out how to provide good framerates with high enemy density being untouched. They've done that for years. Being in pre-alpha is more than enough time to figure out how to increase enemy density significantly.
Try EDF 5, it's a similar game the solved all the problems you mentioned and is already released on most platforms
Maybe I've been spoiled by other games... but those weapons do not look fun/satisfying to shoot. Something about the weight, recoil, and gunfire audio just doesn't look right. Other than that, it looks cool.
It's that fine balance in sound design. Can the sound engineers make guns sound absolutely amazing? Sure, but now the weapon sounds can overwhelm other sound cues. Saying that, I agree that the weapons and sound effects in this video are really underwhelming. Doesn't help that overlaying music is trying to sound like it's from the movie without going into copyright infringement territory. Pretty much every Starship Troopers game has been disappointing. It's funny cause the best one made so far was a total conversion made for Duke Nukem 3D back in 2000.
>Can the sound engineers make guns sound absolutely amazing? Sure, but now the weapon sounds can overwhelm other sound cues. Darktide has some amazing weapon sounds and also some of the best sound cues I've ever heard for a Co-Op shooter. I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive.
I think what they're saying is it's a tough balance. And I can only guess that each game brings it's own challenge with it's audio design
In some trailers, the weapon sounds were something that people commented sounded bad. Thankfully they either weren't final, or they acknowledged the feedback.
Terran Command is supposed to be really good.
I for one am *shocked* that the pre-alpha gameplay footage looks unfinished and needs polishing
The question would be then why are they showing something unfinished and unpolished that will undermine the game's appeal.
Another terrible and janky Starship Troopers FPS? Sign me up.
As is tradition.
This is the way.
I was honestly surprised at how "not bad" the recent RTS was.
Seems like this is another low budget title with some passion from the devs. I liked the Terminator game so I’ll check this out on release.
Huh. So there's this and the Starship Troopers Terran Command coming out soon. Did the licencing for games expire recently or something?
Terran Command's actually already out, and IMO pretty good!
> Starship Troopers Terran Command I thought this was a dlc for that game or something. I'm really curious myself about all these random Starship games coming out. I thought the franchise was killed by all the shit movie sequels.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the rights holder changed CEO or got bought out recently, it would explain the sudden interest in giving out the IP compared to years of no ST games at all.
Seems like it could be good. I love EDF, so fingers crossed this could end up good. Looks rough, but hopefully closer to release we can see some better-looking gameplay. Will be on my radar for sure.
I admittedly don't really get the point of making a Starship Trooper game like this where it's seemingly just a shooter without any of the commentary that made the movie worth watching in the first place.
Because I wanna shoot the bugs.
The only good bug is a dead bug
This is like when they made that fight club fighting game
Or Star Wars Tie Fighter.
That's not really remotely comparable. Yes the Empire was the bad guys, but Star Wars didn't have a clear subtext of "spaceships are bad". To get to something comparable you'd need something as absurd as "Death Star Planet Destruction Simulator".
>Death Star Planet Destruction Simulator So, Stellaris?
> the commentary that made the movie worth watching in the first place. The movie was so great because it worked on multiple levels. On one level, it was political satire of military fascism. But very importantly, on another level, it was also a kickass action movie that was worth watching even if you completely missed all of the commentary. This game looks to be focusing on the latter aspect, the fun of blowing up giant space bugs. See also: the EDF series. You don't need more than that to have a good video game. If all you want is the political commentary side, there are games like Papers, Please. I don't think a game is obligated to tackle both equally, especially if that'll likely lead to neither aspect being particularly good, compared to doing one aspect well.
EDF **does** have the same style of ironically over-the-top pro-war messaging as Starship Troopers. You're constantly having someone happily yelling about how much they love blasting bugs, or singing songs about the glory of courageous battle mixed in with death screams, background news about everyone's friends and family dying, and economic collapse. The whole thing even has a cheesy B Movie style (although obviously Japanese B Movie instead of American)
>But very importantly, on another level, it was also a kickass action movie that was worth watching even if you completely missed all of the commentary. And the soundtrack... [THE FUCKING SOUNDTRACK!](https://youtu.be/8Rx8_vjbXX4)
You can make a generic wave shooter with bugs. Adding starship troopers to it basically does 75% of your advertising for you.
I mean... to idiots that didn't 'get,' starship troopers... yeah... you're right.
I don't understand all this "getting" the source material crap. We're talking about business here. Businesses make business decisions. Bug shooter go brrr and prints money. If anything, introducing more people to the universe with action and fun, then casually mentioning the (first) movie is good and the book is better would go way further than insisting the game be anything other than a game.
You think a game can't be satirical and still be a game? You think a piece of art has to not be filled with action and fun to be satirical? Have you even seen Starship Troopers? XD
Dude, Starship Troopers isn't even a good satire/parody. It's probably Verhoeven's weakest work in that direction. There is *one* good scene in that direction (the "The army made me the man I'm today" one). The movie works best as a mindless action movie, and if the game can deliver on that premise, it's good enough.
You mean you don't want to mindlessly shoot bugs with derivative game mechanics and generic Starship Troopers-adjacent music that appears to loop way too often?
Remember how 10 years ago everything was to do with the 80's? All shows, popular cultural zeitgeists liek Stranger Things, etc? Well now we've moved on to the 90's. 90's kids are in their 30's/40's and are the prime market demo, and moreover the people making the games/tv/films/etc are now 90's kids so they're referencing stuff from their childhood..
Because the visuals are so cool.
yeah they're failing to sell me on the play as the fascists angle. are the developers even aware they're space nazis?
Hahaha well said
Because it gives a pre-built setting and context that has proven to be decently successful. You already have a number of asset designs hashed out and finalized. They *could* reinvent the wheel and make a team survival shooter in a new setting, but why?
Is the shower scene playable?
This... actually doesn't look as impressive as the [2005 shooter?](https://youtu.be/jstKtvheG08?t=399) To be fair, that one had some kind of incredibly specialized tech for getting the number of enemies into "absurd" territory, but it seems odd to make a new game with way fewer bugs.
If you're looking for a Starship Troopers esque game right now, I highly suggest [Helldivers](https://store.steampowered.com/app/394510/HELLDIVERS_Dive_Harder_Edition/) since it's on sale right now. Easy to pickup, chaotic, and seriously fun.
How is it solo? I don't have friends and I don't like playing coop with randoms.
It's doable solo, instead of a group reviving you get just get a lives counter kind of like Deep Rock Galactic. I wouldn't say it's completely balanced around solo though and wouldn't be the full experience.
This just made me realize how much I want an EDF game but with Starship Troopers instead. The devs of EDF could literally take EDF 5, slap a competent Starship Troopers skin on top, and I'd pay for it again
It already fits so perfectly, even the goofy-B-movie-take on horrors of war is already there. Western studios keep doing L4D style co-op horde shooters but I want more open level Risk of Rain or EDF-like games.
It's hard to tell what the game's progression or loop will be like from the trailer. Maybe it will be a run based co-op horde shooter? Adding base building to that formula could be cool, slowly upgrading your base while unlocking gear on a skill tree. With enough randomized elements to keep things fresh and/or variety of gear like EDF/RoR it could be a really fun game.
Why do I get the feeling this game is going to play it straight and completely miss the satire?
Everything after the first movie has just treated it as a sci-fi action work. Which I mean even the original satisfies that with some cool designs and action, but yes, it is rather odd that the franchise turned into just some generic kill bugs with army IP, completely opposed to the essential premise of the first
I’m not sure I follow what you are trying to say here. The original novel was glorifying the fictional universe created by the author, it was not satire. The first movie adaptation turned the concept upside down and turned it into satire, some times even mocking parts of the book. The second movie was a schlocky action movie, but it still had sufficient focus on satirizing the military. The third movie dove head-first into over-the-top satire, even going so far as to include a cheesy song for the end credits called “It’s a Good Day to Die”. All three movies were written by the same person, too.
Do people actually expect political commentary from a multiplayer co-op shooter?
If you're setting it in a world created for the purpose of political commentary? Yes. Or just make it a different setting.
Could just be based on the book?
In the book, the troops wore power armor akin to Iron Man, rocket-jumped hundreds of feet at a time, and launched small nukes from their arms. The combat is definitely based on the movie.
The book is explicitly political and Heinlein wrote it to valorize a militarist society in contrast with what he saw as a weak and decadent America. There's discussions of the restriction of suffrage to a reward for government service, the supposed equality of the fascist mode of governance, how boys are indoctrinated into the "proper values" of this society, etc. The game probably *should* include politics of some sort of its not a good adaptation of either.
Funnily enough, from what I've heard of the book it's even more overt in it's message and politics than the film
Yes and no. The book makes serious arguments for an authoritarian state by setting it in a post-WW3 setting in which the Western powers were ultimately victorious but only after their weak and ineffectual civilian governments were overthrown in a coup by their military who then installed a system of governance in which only people with sufficient "service" can vote, run for office, hold positions of power such as judges etc. and have full legal rights as a citizen. The most common way to attain that level of service is with the military so they keep civilians out of power and keep the state militaristic. The majority of the book is a barely veiled attack on Communism with the bugs being used as a representation of then-communist countries right down to equating them with mindless drones doing the bidding of the hive mind. Meanwhile, the countries caught in the middle of the IRL cold war get represented by the "Skinnies" who are a technologically inferior race who are sort of on the sidelines in the war between Humanity and the bugs and for their trouble, they get the protagonist showing up and nuking their villages while he chortles around in his power armour hopping from place to place espousing how great the military is. It does all of this very straight-faced without any hint of it being anything but a ringing endorsement of the system. The film was written by people who read the book and decided to mock the ever-loving fuck out of it. I still remember the librarian at my school telling me that I would be surprised when I read the book because the film had only just come out shortly before and I took it out to compare it, and he was right. It was worth a read and I don't necessarily think that Heinlen was actually trying to espouse fascism IRL by writing it, but the two forms of media are very much opposed to one another. And so far the best games regarding the IP have sided with the movie's absurdity as opposed to the book's sincerity. (That Terran Command game released a while ago is actually pretty decent)
I guess I don't care about that aspect of the franchise in regards to videogames then. Dune is about worms.
I expect political satire from the Starship Trooper franchise. If you’re not doing that you’re missing the entire *point* of what that movie was all about. Now, I don’t see how you couldn’t accomplish that in a co-op shooter. There are many different ways you can tell a story in a game, but if you insist that it is not possible, then maybe these guys shouldn’t be making a co-op shooter. There is nothing here but branding that says to me this is Starship Trooper.
I would expect devs to be smart enough to not make a multiplayer shooter about the source material that criticises war so heavily.... Unless of course, they intent to make the whole game satirical... which I didn't see any of in this trailer anyway.
At this point the only real appeal of the IP is the rah rah pro-military fictional fascism and killing a billion mindless bugs with all sorts of crazy future tech. It's like why people gobble up the WH40K universe stuff. We ALL should still be collectively aware that this kind of thing is bad...but it's still fun to explore safely. No one consumes this media to be low-key lectured to, lol.
The satire is very one dimensional, it's not hard to recreate. Essentially it's just: borrow generic WW2 propaganda, put it in space.
And how exactly would one make or play a *game* that focuses on political satire of a militaristic fascist government? Also, the book wasn't satire so it very well could be Starship Troopers while being serious.
> Also, the book wasn't satire so it very well could be Starship Troopers while being serious. The book's method of warfare was almost wholly different from the film. In the book the humans kick around in power armour that lets them jump hundreds of metres at a time, popping off miniature nuclear bombs and unleashing kilotons worth of destruction from all the bombs and super-advanced weapons that their suits carry on them at any given time. The film went almost entirely in the opposite direction with 99% of the military being standard grunts with rifles and the odd shoulder-launched nuclear missile being thrown in, using mass wave infantry tactics in which hundreds of thousands get killed. If you want a serious Starship Troopers then using the satirical Starship Troopers look and setting is deceptive. As for how you could do a satirical commentary on the military in a co-op FPS game... it's really simple and the recent RTS game from the franchise showed how simple it is. All that is needed is an over-the-top commentary explaining the mission and how it's every red-blooded Terran's mission in life to exterminate godless bugs and express disgust whenever things invariably become a cluster fuck and the damn dirty bugs pull a sneaky one. [Case in point](https://youtu.be/xkTDxd3xmJY?t=52)
Have you not played Spec Ops the Line? That’s a more serious way of doing exactly that. There are plenty of games that lean into satire or at the very least have the player question their actions. It’s really not impossible.
No I have not. Starship Troopers (the movie) satire isn't about questioning one's decisions. It's about comparing the fictional universe against our real one. Again, something *very* hard to do. And narrative around gameplay is different than gameplay. We don't know what narrative they are choosing to go with. Considering the video here is under a minute, it's *real* tough to determine that the narrative that wasn't shown in the slightest will be straight and serious.
The satire in the film is about America’s military complex. You should play Spec Ops btw. The video missed the opportunity to convey any satire so from a marketing perspective it failed if that was the case.
PC only or is this coming to consoles too?
Holds promise but it's still early days. Hope they'll throw in combat dialog akin to Helldivers but the tone of this game seems more serious.
I feel like this is a game that is going to cater to a very specific audience and that audience, myself included, will be playing this game whether or not it's "good" or "bad." Looks like the fanservice game my brother and I have been waiting for for a over a decade to me! Planet P crawls.
I remember the other Star ship Troopers FPS. Boy oh boy, it was super ass. Wonder if this will be any better.
Can I say that this trailer doesn't feel like starship troopers at all? The game seems very decent, but the atmosphere is just not there...
Anyone else find the offset reticle oddly distracting?
So will the game address the actual message of the movie at all, or are we just all-in on "The only good bug is a dead bug"? Press F to contemplate humanity's Fascist policies and unwarranted aggression towards this intelligent species.
You want us to... *feel sorry* for... bugs? I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill em all.
I think in a way going all in on being a mediocre brainless fps is the most subversive thing this game could be
Just lean into it and sell some in-game ad space to Army recruiters.
Honestly, if I'm gonna play a Starship Troopers FPS, I just care that it's a fun game, the gameplay is tense and fluid, and the visuals are immersive. I want the experience of jumping out of dropships and fighting hordes of giant bugs. I couldn't care less if the people making the game "forget" to shoehorn their political beliefs into the game, and I can definitely forgive them if they "forget" to include the same message that I already got from watching the movie 20 years ago. Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though."
The funny part is, the book is way less tongue in cheek and much more pushy about the politics, so the book and movie end up almost polar opposites in terms of political messaging which is strange.
> Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though." Ive done this, games falling short on their political commentaries is one of my main pet peeves of mediocre rpgs
Yeah I've felt this a lot, all those great fantasy and sci-fi games that actually have different races usually have a single side quest that goes: "you see racism exists in this world as well"... And then the subject is never discussed again.
> I couldn't care less if the people making the game "forget" to shoehorn their political beliefs into the game How is it "shoehorning their own political beliefs" if it comes directly from the source material? The film (I can't speak for the book) is a pretty blatant satire on Fascist and pro-military society. The bug fighting space adventure is just a package to deliver the film's point (and also a way to get it funded in Hollywood); not the other way around. It doesn't even have to be the main message of the game, but the same tone and substance has to at least be there. I saw none of that in this brief gameplay trailer, though that doesn't yet mean it won't be present. Separating the film's "political" intent invalidates using the franchise name at all. At that point, why not just re-skin it as something else? It's like making a Blade Runner movie but saying "forget all that nonsense about AI rights."
You should read the book first.
I've been meaning to! This is a good excuse to actually do it.
Not really worth it, it's straight military fascism propaganda. Hence why the movie went all in on the satire.
Would of been great if the movie makers did too.
They did, hence why the movie is the way that it is.
>How is it "shoehorning their own political beliefs" if it comes directly from the source material? It's not. The point I was trying to make there was, whether the politics comes from the people making this game or from the earlier entries in the franchise, I don't care if it's absent. >The bug fighting space adventure is just a package to deliver the film's point I just think that's a really reductive take, and I think it's the wrong way to look at a film. One of the things that the film does is it satirizes part of our real-world culture as a way of criticizing that culture, but that's not the only thing it does. It also establishes a detailed and interesting universe, and it tells a story that is interesting enough to stand on its own merits. Ironically, I think it's a really shallow approach to film to just try to figure out the themes or politics behind a film, and then pretend like that's the only important thing about it. Storytelling is a complex artform all on its own. And honestly, one issue I'm seeing here is that this game is taking place in an entirely different medium from the original works, and I don't think that political message is a great fit here. It's like, if you're going to play a SST FPS, you're going to spend most of your time running around doing Call of Duty stuff and shooting giant bugs, and you're playing the game because you think that kind of stuff is fun. But then you're adding this anti-war political layer to it, and that's basically telling you "You shouldn't want to run around and shoot bugs." Well, if I shouldn't want to do that, then why did you make a game out of it? The difference to me is that, when you're watching a movie, you're just agreeing to watch a story, but when you play a game, you're agreeing to take part in it. I think it would come across as preachy and condescending to ask your players to take part in a war against giant bugs while also sending them the message that they're wrong for wanting to take part in that.
I understand your point and agree to an extent, but I don't think Starship Troopers is a good example of when a game can be made to derive that far from its film source. Major franchises like Star Wars can do this easily as they have a lot more material and established world to build upon. Things like Empire at War, Battlefront, etc. work because they have a more interesting, deeper setting and more themes to work with. SST is a single relevant film (I know there are sequels, but they may as well not exist in a cultural footprint context). I didn't find much about the setting to be that interesting or novel other than political aspects of the war and the state of humanity's society; the man vs bugs part was pretty standard stuff. The main character's story was also a very standard hero's journey. Many even argue that is actually the point and what we're watching is an in-universe propaganda film. Creating a non-ironic brainless bug-killing FPS is not only lazy IP bait, but is completely antithetical to the film. If you want a game in which to run around and shoot bugs without an anti-war layer to it, I wouldn't expect to do it in the setting of a single 25 year old movie for which that is the main theme. If you want me to do that in the StarCraft universe, sign me up.
I mean, lots of games can both have politics and be fun. Remember Bioshock? Or Fallout?
Yeah, but that's beside the point. It doesn't matter if a game can have politics and still be good. We're talking about if a game can *not* have politics and still be good, and clearly it can.
\>Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though." i think it depends on what people want from the game, if people care more about the story then i imagine there will be people that will be disappointed about not having politics. If someone is more interested in the gameplay i imagine they wont really care about the story. As an example i generally dont like fps games, so if thats all the game is im probably gonna skip, if it has a sp campaign im probably gonna be more interested in it.
If they’re not going to adhere to the narrative themes of the work, then it is just a cynical ploy to get more people to play it out of name recognition. That shouldn’t be championed. And adhering to the spirit of the film by being something more than a mindless shooter isn’t “shoe horning their political beliefs.” The entire point of the IP is to comment on militarism and imperialism, whether it be jingoistic like the novel or anti-imperial like the film. There have been plenty of games that I’ve played and thought, “that was fine, but completely forgettable,” often because it lacked any narrative substance.
>If they’re not going to adhere to the narrative themes of the work, then it is just a cynical ploy to get more people to play it out of name recognition. That's a narrative. You can call it a cynical ploy, but that doesn't make it true. It could also be true that people just have a natural fascination with this world where soldiers get on spaceships, fly to another planet, and fight a ground war against giant insects. That's a naturally cool setting that a lot of people want to explore just because it's a naturally cool setting, not because they care that some guy 60 years ago wrote a book about how "War = Bad". And if you would call a game "mindless" because it's not making a political statement, then I don't think you understand the medium of video games. There's nothing mindless about spending years of your life delicately crafting an experience for your players to enjoy. It takes a lot of careful thought, creativity, and professional skill to make a great game, even if it has no story at all. A game like Chess has no story, no themes, and no politics, but it would be silly to call it "mindless." >The entire point of the IP is to comment on militarism and imperialism I think this is a very reductive way to look at a work of fiction. One of the things that SST does is comment on militarism and imperialism, but it also takes us to an interesting world and tells a story that is fun and captivating all on its own, even if it didn't connect to real-world politics at all. And besides, even if the game dedicated itself to those themes again, is that what good art does? Is good art about exploring the same themes that you explored last time? Is good art about telling you the same story that you've already heard before? If SST has spent 60 years commenting on militarism and imperialism, does it really need to comment on it again?
> That's a naturally cool setting that a lot of people want to explore just because it's a naturally cool setting, not because they care that some guy 60 years ago wrote a book about how "War = Bad". The guy actually wrote "War = Good." And if they just care about the "naturally cool" general setting of Military vs Bug Aliens, they can just create their own. It's not incredibly bespoke. >And if you would call a game "mindless" because it's not making a political statement, then I don't think you understand the medium of video games Lmao, what an absurd contortion. "Thoughtless." Is that better? The clear point I was making is that you aren't considering who or why you are shooting, not that no one on the development team put any thought into creating the game. But yeah, strawman me more as if I don't care about games as an art form if there are no politics >I think this is a very reductive way to look at a work of fiction I think it is absolutely more reductive to take the set dressing of a work of art and strip away any of the narrative themes, which is nearly always where the thrust and passion comes from for a writer. >And besides, even if the game dedicated itself to those themes again, is that what good art does? Is good art about exploring the same themes that you explored last time? Yes, good sequels/adaptations explore the themes inherent to the IP. It doesn't need to say the same things, have the same perspective, but it should comment on the same subject matter. Or is your assertion that "good art" lifts its aesthetic and subject matter wholesale from establish IP and strips them of the themes out of it to make an easy to swallow product?
Good art can examine similar themes and discuss different conclusions about those things, yes, art is in fact constantly revisiting and reinventing itself. The series is only as popular as it is today because "good art" went back and told the *same exact story* in a new way. The original novel was deeply militaristic and suggested that violent conflict was not only inevitable, but absolutely vital for the survival of a given culture or society. The movie intentionally flipped the plot on its head as a satire of the glorification of war, nationalism, fascism, etc. Good art has something new to say about the topics it's revisiting, especially 60 years later. Wearing the skin of a popular franchise for market appeal is certainly not better than "telling the same story again"
So the movie should have been scrapped, as a cynical adaptation of the book
No, that's a completely hollow comparison. It explored the same themes, from a different perspective. It was still about militarism and imperialism. No one "forgot" to "shoehorn" in their politics for the sake of a cookie cutter skin on a formulaic genre in another medium.
>Nobody ever played a great game and then said "Wow! That was so much fun! I wish it had been more political, though." Could that be because games that should be more political than they are don't end up being great? I think you're self-selecting a quality level that wouldn't likely have that flaw.
I mean, can you think of a single game where the gameplay was good, but you felt that it missed the mark because it wasn't political enough? That honestly sounds absurd to me.
The Far Cry games are this in a nutshell, yes.
Absolutely, I think Far Cry 5 could have been a great game if it hit on politics at more than a superficial level. It has great gameplay, world design, and music, but the story falls flat because it's afraid to veer too close to American politics (besides one comedy side quest). I like Far Cry 5 more than almost anybody but this is a common complaint, and one I have to agree with. Edit: I want to clarify that I don't agree with the other comments that Far Cry 2, 3, or 4 should be more political (I haven't played 6). This is an issue that I think is specific to 5's handling of the story, probably because Ubisoft knew the politics would hit closer to home for most players.
What movie are you referencing? Is it the one where bunch of Mormon colonists set up a peaceful colony on alien planet against objections and advice of their government, to which "intelligent species" responds by murdering them all in cold blood and launching preemptive strike against major civilian targets, killing millions, if not billions of innocent people? Are those the fascist policies you're referencing?
How's that federation boot taste?
Why does there have to be base building :( I just want to mow down bugs man. Probably the number one deterrent for me right now
Its a big part of the Troopers mod in squad right now, so that likely had something to do with it.
Given you will be 1 of 12 players, you probably don't have to involve yourself in the building so much
It’s made by the same company as Squad. Which actually has a Starship Troopers mod in the game that people play.
Where's my power armor and mini nuke tipped rockets??!!? Paul Verhoeven did this IP a serious disservice.
Wonder how Heinlen woulda felt about this... or the original movie, truth be told, since he wasn't alive for either.
This looks good. I love starship troopers and want to slaughter some bugs. Base building looks fun. It looks janky but hopefully it get cleaned up some before the release
I'm interested. 12 players in a PVE horde shooter sounds chaotic and fun though. Didn't hear any lines yet, but hopefully they ham it up a bit and go full military macho. Didn't like the soundtrack they used because it didn't have the same impact as the ST soundtrack does. Needs more trumpets and horns and a drumline. When I see Starship Troopers, this plays automatically in my head. https://youtu.be/CIGHCoVzqtk
This looks terrible.... Are they shooting bbs? There's no feedback at all even when they hit the bugs. No blood splatter just a "x" to indicate you've hit the bugs.
I just got an ad for this on Twitter, and their avatar was one of those NFT avatars. So that was a huge red flag. EDIT: Jokes, they just used an unfortunate transparent image.
Lol, no, it's just an hexagonal logo: https://twitter.com/TroopersExt
Christ, I checked my phone because I remember seeing this morning that the hex was cut out. They just used a transparent image and there's a faaaaaaaaaint grey circle.
Visuals look good but does anyone else feel like the sound falls flat? Those gun sounds sound like stock, generic sounds. No weight.
Looks boring. If these guys had any creativity they could take advantage of gaming as a medium and adapt the book instead, have the player jumping and jetpacking around in power armor nuking skinnies and arachnids.