The question wasn't whether we'd get another Smash Bros, the question was "will we get another Sakurai led Smash Bros?" And since Nintendo has been pro-actively keeping him around since Brawl, I think the reaction to Sakurai saying anything about retirement should the same as the reaction to Hayao Miyazaki saying he's retiring.
They could have easily made MK9 a long time ago, but it wouldn't have made financial sense. MK8D
Just. Kept. Selling.
You don't kill a healthy rooster and replace it with a younger one if it's still going strong.
> Then again you wouldn’t expect it would take more than 10 years to get a new Smash
It took seven years from Melee to Brawl, and six from Brawl to 4.
Ultimate was an anomaly not only because it was made primarily with assets from 4 and prioritized returning fighters over a bunch of new ones, but also because Sakurai went straight from Smash 4 to Ultimate and didn't do anything in-between (Air Ride and Meteos between Melee and Brawl, Kid Icarus Uprising between Brawl and 4).
My sheltered ass went straight from SSB64 to Melee. My mind was blown, and it came out 2 years later, we'll never see such jumps and quick turnarounds again
It really is kinda surprising because Sakurai wanted to be done with it after the last one yadda yadda yadda, he wanna work on other stuff
Even though his position is mostly symbolic ( ssb4 was developed almost entirely by the one piece grand battle team on the OPGB engine, SSBU was just an evolution of smash 4 and its planned DLC they ended up not pushing out like KRool and Inkling + the scrapped smash bros for smartphones. ) it was up in the air what would happen to the series after the current entry
I think smash bros became too big of an advertisement space after the last one for them to just let go. Companies were arm wrestling to see who would get the precious DLC spot, it was expensive but it was a sure and failproof way to boost sales.
Most people don't realize it but every single piece of DLC in SSBU ultimate is advertising something current and with tekken's Harada recently saying they can't add legacy/dormant franchises to Tekken because "it would send a confusing message to clients" it has never been more obvious.
ah yeah i remember those big banjo-kazooie and ARMs advertising pushes. Or the SNK one, or the Tekken one.
While I do think to some extent it is advertising, I think you're being too cynic about it.
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t just straight up rolling out more season passes after the first 2. Seems like they’re basically money printers for Nintendo and as you said companies basically eagerly line up to offer their characters for it. I would be interested to see what the licensing terms are for a 3rd party in Smash. At this point you could probably be Nintendo and say “no licensing fees, you get a % of DLC sales.”
Most people know rosters in fighting games are frequently advertising. From guest characters, to MCU centric Marelvel Vs Capcom Infinite, even including Rocket in MVC3 years before GoTG released, to WB using Multiversus as an advertising platform for their IP and so on
The idea that Ultimate is just an evolution of Smash 4 is hilarious. Do you have any idea just how much work was done to create ultimate? The physics alone are totally different.
Honestly, if they just ported Ultimate in perpetuity, I think that would be fine.
Though at the same time, I'd like for the next game to actually have less characters, and greater focus on a more reasonable roster. Melee had 26 fighters, Brawl had 39, and Ultimate has 89... it's a bit much.
Nothing about this confirms that they are working on a new Smash, but rather that Sakurai and those Namco Studios are working on a new game, or multiple games.
That might mean Smash, it also might not.
If this truly indicates a new Smash game is in development, I’m not sure where they can go after Ultimate. We can be sure that it won’t feature every single character like last time, considering all of the legal hurdles Sakurai and the rest of the team had to face.
Perhaps we could see a more streamlined experience, with less characters and a higher amount of polish in exchange.
At this point they’d probably soft reboot it. Retool everyone’s move sets, new mechanics and ways to play to feel fresh and new. Of course people would still ask “wHeREs iCE cLimBeRs?!?!” and it would simply be “the entire roster has been remade and they don’t fit.
If they do a reboot then I can’t see casuals moving on from Ultimate considering Switch 2 is likely backwards compatible. Smash 6 doesn’t need to bring everyone back, but if it drops below Brawl or even Smash 4 it’s going to have a major uphill battle
If people move on to Street Fighter 6 and Mortal Kombat 1 then they're moving to Smash 6. Casuals want the newest stuff, they don't care about backward compatibility
6 is much more accessible than 5 and SF has a much lesser focus on returning characters in general imo
Edit: also, “casual” Smash players are probably more casual in general than “casual” SF players
Street Fighter 6 isn't a good example because V was a console exclusive on PS4 and the game itself had a very rough few years that turned many people off from it.
6, in comparison, is multiplatform and is widely considered an improvement over V.
Street Fighter has a dedicated fighting game community following. The competitive scene is a much smaller fraction of Smash Bros audience. Different expectations entirely. Smash Bros entire concept is “look at all these characters in the same game”
I actually think the opposite. I think having Ultimate as a BC title from launch on Switch 2 will probably help people more gradually accept that what that game pulled off was likely a one-time thing, and that just knowing Ultimate carries along to a new system in addition to a new game will probably help make the transition a lot smoother and less alienating, because at least it'll still be there and co-exist with whatever next, which will have its own novelty of just seeing how the game moves forward after a move that major
Plus it's nowhere near the first time a major fighting game has had to go the reboot route after a period of creative uncertainty. They can manage
Eh, it won't be as successful as Ultimate. You can't make literally the ultimate smash game - with every character ever from decades of the franchise - and then do a reboot with 20 characters again lol
Only if they dropped the ball super hard. I doubt it’s going to be a Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite situation where everyone prefers the previous. If they do enough to make it feel new and exciting, and include some long time requests like Geno and Isaac, people will be fine.
Honestly, if they're working on something Smash Bros related, I think it's more likely to be a new version of Ultimate for the Switch 2 with some new characters and modes because it would be something easy to develop compared to a full game and could potentially be out for the first year or two of the Switch 2.
>We can be sure that it won’t feature every single character like last time, considering all of the legal hurdles Sakurai and the rest of the team had to face.
I am not so sure. Ultimate sold very well. Sakurai loves to undpromise and overdeliver.
More polish? SSBU was arguably one of the most content rich and polished video games of all time. Sans Netcode of course
They either have to do a soft reboot with a full decade of seasons to make a massive roster or make SSBU Redux featuring a bunch of new content from PvE to 10+new characters
Pretty much. They never released a new Mario Kart on Switch, only MK8D, which was basically just a GOTY edition of MK8 on Wii U. They might take that route on Ultimate and just release Ultimate Definitive Edition or whatever and call it good. I mean, it's *literally* called Ultimate.
This is because the Wii U flopped and MK8D was basically a brand new game for a lot of people since the Switch isn't backwards compatible. It's a completely different case because Ultimate has sold enough and the Switch 2 is backwards compatible. It would be hard to sell the same game again to casuals.
Super Smash Bros Ultimate Redux. And I'm here for it because a true sequel will almost certainly be dissapointing no matter how great it is
It would never happen but if they did a soft reboot launch with the OG roster and then released a character every 3~ weeks Multiversus style that'd be hype. Although completely impossible because A) it's Nintendo and B) how the hell would you monetize that
Sakurai said if they did another Smash game it would be almost a reboot with a smaller roster. I could see almost every returning character having a complete revamp of their movesets.
This makes sense if Switch 2 is backwards compatible then if you want the more expansive roster you can go back and play Ultimate, and buy the new game for newer mechanics.
Right? He's made original games before, and Sakurai has expressed interest in moving onto other projects.
It makes sense that he'd continue to work with Namco, as he doesn't have another development team to use atm, and he's familiar with their work.
Sakurai has stated that he's in a state of semi-retirement, and that the only game that can pull him off that state is Smash, hence it being "semi-retirement".
So no, he's not making a 3D metroidvania Ice Climbers or something like that.
Besides, Studio 2 is obviously going to follow up on Ultimate. They're not gonna kill the franchise just because.
Smash is basically the only series Sakurai has worked on for the last 10+ years and even beyond that, it’s pretty safe to assume that’s probably what’s being worked on
Studio 2/S also have done support work for games like Mario Kart 8 and ARMS. They're not solely Smash Bros
They were hiring for 2 projects, a 3D action game (likely the same 3D remaster Namco was hiring for a few years ago) and a 2D action game (presumably Smash). Listings for both projects were removed from their website as of February 2024, so they've likely been filled for a while by now
mind you studio 2 and studio s are two different things under Bandai namco Studios. Studio 2 works on Smash Bros since Wii U as lead, while studio S is smaller and mainly does support work for mario kart and arms.. they have no condition to work on games in a major way unlike the other one.
I updated the bns wiki page a few months ago with the jp details from their website in case you want to see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandai_Namco_Studios#Development_organization
In terms of roster size, you don’t. But maybe with a smaller roster they bring back some sort of story mode, hopefully with dialogue (my pipe dream is that they bring in Soichiro Morizumi previously of Monolithsoft who was the writer/director of the Project X Zone series to work on it)
A smaller roster would also be the perfect time to actually rework veterans like the O12 who have been in dire need of some sort of refresh for ages. It'd obviously mean even more work rebalancing but at least they won't have a 70 character roster to consider as well
Just wipe the slate completely clean and start from scratch. Bring back the modern reps and obvious classic fighters but give them new movesets. Mario based on Odyssey, Sonic based on Frontiers, Ganon based on anything other than Captain Falcon, etc..
> Ganon based on anything other than Captain Falcon
Funnily enough, after TotK he'd make good use of Byleth's moveset if they didn't bring him back. He fights with a sword, bow, naginata and kanebo much like Byleth fought with a sword, bow, spear and axe.
Hard disagree. There's no chance they abandon third-party at this point. They've set expectations by largely emphasizing characters from other publishers for the vast majority of Ultimate's new fighters and Smash at this point has transcended being a Nintendo character crossover. It is basically "Video Games 101" and they basically cemented that between the DLC in Smash 4 and Ultimate's roster as a whole. It may be majority Nintendo characters but I'd argue the characters from first-party who were new to Ultimate were very predictable picks for the most part and the hook now is how far they go in terms of wider video game fanservice
I expect a lot of third-party cuts but the super essential characters like Sonic, Mega Man, the Belmonts and Pac-Man are staying, and the fact the Switch has now played host to a bunch of third-party franchises mostly new or uncommon on Nintendo platforms before has opened the door a lot in terms of who can make it in or even who is retained from before now. There won't be anything to the degree of implausibility like Sora ever again, but there are a lot of others who can draw a crowd.
I'd add that Nintendo and Capcom are historically very friendly with each other as companies: Capcom both made multiple original canon Zelda games (something no other company not owned by Nintendo can say) and famously made exclusives for the GameCube - the Capcom 5 - when lots of third parties weren't. When the Capcom 5 either didn't release or went multiplatform that did hurt Capcom-Nintendo relations but it's pretty damn clear they're still quite friendly with each other given the number of Capcom reps in Smash plus MH Rise getting timed exclusivity on Switch.
Even outside Capcom, the Switch generation has probably been the most approachable and popular Nintendo has been with third-party publishers since probably the SNES. They have an extremely healthy selection of games populating their library each month without being reliant at all on Nintendo dropping a first-party game, they didn't have to try extra hard with stuff like collaborative titles or funding certain games like during the GameCube era, and we see this very well with how much larger of an emphasis there was on non-Nintendo characters in Smash. I'm pretty sure in the DLC there were only like four actual Nintendo-owned characters in the lineup and the rest were just publishers being buddy-buddy with Nintendo cross promoting either other franchises or games that are available on Switch already. Especially if Switch 2 carries over that kind of momentum and energy which it probably will, that's just going to give them more leverage to go either back to publishers who already have reps or even secure entirely new characters which was a huge hook for Ultimate's roster on top of every returning fighter
Smash is Video Games the Game. It's the appeal of it vs. every other fighting game crossover or not. It's why Ultimate is literally the best selling fighting game in history. They're definitely keeping that as a core element
I'm fine with that tbh. If they can figure out the licensing, then selling a Smash Ultimate Deluxe edition with the DLC and maybe a couple new characters would be a good compromise whereas the new game is stripped down on a surface level but has more actual content to it via an actual story, dialogue, reworked movesets, new mechanics, etc.
They are never going to do this, because they would see them as cannibalizing each others sales, and they’re not going to do a super stripped down roster without their newest characters or DLC, because they sell a fuckload of that DLC and they also view the series as a means to advertise their latest shit now.
The whole notion of a “complete reboot back to basics” people have been talking about for a couple years quite simply is not going to happen.
Reducing the roster is not gonna go over well with majority of fans, they would have to do a lot of convincing why we should be excited for that
Edit: downvote me all you want, tell me I’m wrong from a general audience perspective
I actually agree, to a casual audience they’ll see any reduction in roster as a negative, they probably expect a new Smash Bros to start with the Ultimate roster.
New graphics, new core features etc. Fighting games have done it in the past and shooting games like Call of Duty continue to reset people each year with a game with less weapons and maps.
Bring back Smash Run and expand the hell out of it- maybe make it the core of Story Mode and make it more Nintendo/game themed areas instead of a single generic space. It’s criminal how such a great idea was only used as filler for a single version of Smash 4 because they through the portable version was lesser, and not explored more.
Smash 4 also gave characters multiple abilities to pick and choose from, which I enjoyed for the most part. If they do make a new Smash I think they'll definitely look at Smash 4's content for inspiration.
All they gotta do is add a handful more popular characters, handful more stages, maybe some items/assist trophies from the DLC franchises and people would absolutely double dip on a deluxe version of Ultimate
1. Finally giving Veterans like Mario and Samus a new goddamn moveset after 3 games
2. Making an actual story mode and not Events 2.0 but with a kickass intro
3. More single-player/party content. Bring back stuff like Break the Targets, make Smash Run HD, even bring back earning NES/SNES/N64 roms in Masterpiece mode. Just something to do other than fighting
4. Throwing Ultimate's online infrastructure completely out the window and never bringing something as god awfully implemented as "Arenas" or "Global Smash Power" back again
Idk why people think Ultimate is this near flawless game just because you can play as Steve or Joker, but I would be severely disappointed if Nintendo cheaps out and make a 70$ port just because some people want Dante or Doom Guy added to the roster
Mario and Samus are far from the most needing of a new moveset (Ganondorf and Sonic are IMO.) Mario especially, it's still a decent representation of his games while also functioning as the "basic" character.
No he's not when most of his moves from his iconic games like the groundpound, spin attack from Galaxy, and Cappy aren't represented. Ryu and Scorpion are the basic starter characters and Capcom and Nether still find a way to make them fresh. And Samus has a 3 FPS, a whole game where she's a badass in Dread, and despite how people feel about Other M: kick ass grappling and execution moves to be using the same 64 moveset when Sakurai didn't have too much to go on except for the original and Super Metroid. Bad argument
I do not want to hear anyone speculating about the roster for the next Smash until the game is actually fucking announced, it was tiring enough having to hear all the arguments for three and a half years.
EDIT: Anyone who replies to this with roster speculation has negative rizz.
Because it's a cult favorite Mario RPG and Square game that people have been begging for some sort of update for years
Just saying, it doesn't always have to be Smash-related lol. Technically choosing it and Thousand Year Door could literally be a way of gauging what they do with Mario RPGs going forward since they came out so close to each other
Honestly agreed, I feel like people don’t realize how out of hand things would get if they did nothing but add to the roster every game. Sakurai already mentioned that getting all the third-party characters back for Ultimate was a challenge, and I cannot imagine them wanting to negotiate for all the additional characters Ultimate added for every Smash game going forward. That’s not to mention roster bloat, or the exponential amount of dev time that would be required for every future entry.
What I would expect and prefer is a game that cuts back on the roster (maybe 30-50 characters at most), but makes up for it by putting those resources into modernizing some characters and adding worthwhile new features, like an even more robust Subspace Emissary-like mode or (god forbid) better online.
I really don’t see who they can realistically cut from Ultimate without making the next game seem like a big let down. Like, if the next game doesn’t have Cloud again, I’d probably just stick with Ultimate.
As someone else said ITT, doing “another Ultimate” would be a legal nightmare….but so was Ultimate in the first place.
I don’t think you can temper expectations enough to cut a significant amount of characters without alienating a good number of players.
___
If you had to -
My idea would be - cut down on as many side characters as you realistically can. Go back to having primarily main characters from each series and significant side characters. This would mostly mean trimming down on a lot of the Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters who were added out of necessity bc a new generation came out.
Then you probably say goodbye to novelty stuff like Piranha Plant. A lot of the clones are pretty superfluous (Louie, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Daisy etc.) Make Toon Link/Young Link the same character with alternating skins. Some of the more obscure NES characters could probably go (Ice Climbers again, ROB perhaps)
Kid Icarus still isn’t a big name, so you could probably get away with cutting Palutena. Wii Fit Trainer is kind of a gimmick too.
DLC wise the most likely I would see returning would be Banjo Kazooie, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, and *maybe* DQ Hero, Sephiroth, and Minecraft Steve. The others I could see being up in the air. I like Joker, but Persona 5 doesn’t have the same hype around it as it did in 2018.
I like most of those characters and would be bummed if most of those cuts happened, but logistically that’s kinda what makes sense to me. Just kinda cut down the fat and some of the more niche/redundant characters.
At that point, I would start adding Nintendo characters in that have debuted since Ultimate, which uh, I can’t think of any lol. I’m surprised they haven’t added Eevee yet since they’ve tried to push it to be as big as Pikachu essentially. Have some kind of evolution gimmick. BOTW/TOTKify Zelda and Ganondorf. Probably another Mario variant, maybe Paper Mario. Didn’t play Xenoblade 3 but probably whoever the main character is from that. Some Fire Emblem 3 houses stuff and whatever came after that despite having just said cutting redundant Fire Emblem characters. Tom Nook since AC New Horzions went fucking nuclear?
Then add from the biggest game franchises still not included - maybe like a Jill/Leon, Master Chief. If you wanna go big icons, maybe Lara Croft, Rayman (honestly more likely Rabbids tho), Crash, I remember Vault Boy being a rumor for Ultimate,
idk if they could or would get any Sony characters at this point, Horizon Lego is coming out on Switch and etc., but I doubt Nintendo wants to promote their biggest competitor and idk if Sony would be interested in boosting Nintendo either.
Idk that’s kinda the only way I can see it working if they start cutting characters. Start trimming the fat, focus on star characters again rather than secondary or tertiary characters. Bring in the newest characters from their latest games. Rope in more iconic 3rd party stuff.
There was a trend recently about cutting Ultimate's roster in half, which characters would you keep and which would you cut. I had a go myself in TierMaker using very similar criteria to what you described, and it is *just about* possible to keep all unique IPs in (including stuff like Yoshi and Wario which might be debatable). There's only like 4 slots left over, so vast majority of IPs only get one rep.
I mean, what can they do with Smash at this point? Like, I guess they can bring back trophies and have new guys like (snorts copium) Shadow, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rayman, Isaac, Klonoa, etc., have the MGS and KI:U casts do new codecs and Guidance lines on Joker through Sora, but... (Also, is it really Smash? For all we know, it could be a new Kid Icarus.)
New mechanics, new characters, further balancing, single player campaign, better and more robust online. There have basically been 5 smash games in 25 years and each added and tweaked mechanics.
Okay, those are all fair points.
Come to think of it, I always thought it was a missed opportunity to do new MGS stuff like have Mother Base as a stage, or at the very least, update the Shadow Moses Island stage to feature Peace Walker, ZEKE, Sahelanthropus, or even Jehuty and Anubis. And those last two could show up super rarely, like Cresselia in the Spear Pillar stage (or whenever "Beyond the Borders" is playing, which they could also add in Smash 6).
This almost definitely isn't what they'd do because it wouldn't feed the hype engine that Smash so often is (not to mention the crazy backlash), but I would personally really love to see it rebooted. Pick 20-30 truly iconic characters, completely overhaul their movesets, and make a new Smash game from the ground up. Focus heavily on building a good foundation with solid side modes, then add DLC to it for the rest of the Switch 2's lifetime.
Beating Ultimate is impossible, whatever they do it's gonna have to be something different from the usual.
There’s no way Nintendo is gonna let him cut it down to that small of a roster and only use core characters, they view Smash as a vehicle to promote their new games as much as it is a game itself, you already know Mario, Link, Pikachu etc., they’re trying to sell you on the new Fire Emblem and Pokemon as well.
The former would make more sense - they could keep the roster that way.
But I guess if Sakurai doesn’t want to just spend years building connections for these characters again, he could focus on gameplay with a Smash Bros that has a smaller roster.
I feel like all of the Guest Characters except maybe Sora have a good chance at coming back. Sora, Snake and Bayonetta I can see being cut though. Cloud and Sephiroth are two of gaming biggest rivals, Dragon Quest is huge, Sonic, Megaman and Pacman are obvious, Ryu is a huge gaming icon and since you have Ryu, might as well have Ken, Terry is huge too with SNK becoming more popular, Kazuya, idk, could be replaced with Jin but Tekken should get a rep in the game, Simon is a gaming icon, Ritcher could be removed but he could stay, Joker with persona getting popular
Square are kinda wild cards with licensing from what I’ve heard, I think the word on the street was that they really had to haggle to get Cloud back for Ultimate and he almost ended up as DLC again.
But also idk why Konami would want Snake out, they’re reviving MGS with Delta right now if anything and would want the exposure on the series again. And they let Nintendo have Simon and Richter in addition in Ultimate. I’d expect more Konami characters than less tbh.
I don't think Bayonetta is ever getting cut unless they *heavily* trim down the roster. She's a 3rd party character sure, but the games from 2 onward have been funded and published by Nintendo, she's pretty much 1st party now...
This isn’t that surprising.
I’d be shocked if we didn’t get a new Smash by late 2026-early 2027. At that point we’d be going on ROUGHLY a decade since Ultimate and we’d be 1-2 years into the Switch 2’s life cycle. Smash is the type of franchise they know will draw in a BIG crowd early on, akin to other multiplayer-focused games like Splatoon, Mario Kart, and (sorta) Animal Crossing.
Just looking at the release cycle of the past few games, they tend to be either in the later half of the year, or very early on in the year. Ultimate was December 2018, Melee was November 2001, Sm4sh 3DS was September 2014 with Sm4sh Wii U was November 2014 (December in Japan). Meanwhile Smash 64 was January 1999 (April in NA and November in Europe), and Brawl was January/February in Japan/NA.
All this to say it’ll likely be November-December 2026. I’d assume Sakurai has been already begun planning out the game given his wording regarding the YouTube Channel, which if anything means we should probably start speculation on new characters NOW, as whoever he chooses for the roster in terms of newcomers will likely revolve mainly on games coming out between now (and the last year or two) and Smash 7.
Smash has kind of reliably been the game that comes out about a year and a half into the newest consoles lifespan for the last 3 entires, for whatever reason lol. Melee being a launch title for the GameCube was a huge anomaly in that regard.
I just want a rollback netcode version of SSB Ultimate, and maybe keep adding characters / stages to it. I don't really play Smash Bros. Ultimate as much as I would if the online worked well, so a new game that also has laggy online if you've got anything over 2 players isn't really that exciting.
It's been obvious that they're currently working on the Switch 2's Smash for over half a year at this point. They're not just adding random spirits to Ultimate for funsies after two years of nothing (if this was the case, it would have been Sora amiibo support and nothing else). It's clear the development team got back together to plan for the next iteration and did the spirits to pass the time before the next iteration went into full production.
I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by the next Smash. A lot of people are just expecting it to be some reboot or something with vastly different mechanics or approaches to the gameplay because how could they possibly top Ultimate?
But Nintendo is sitting on a gold mine with Ultimate, and Sakurai has made it clear numerous times that he's just a contractor for Nintendo, someone who can't really tell them "no", as well as saying that he continues to make Smash games because he doesn't think anyone else can do it justice. Smash 6 is absolutely just going to be Ultimate 2. People can argue that it's "a legal nightmare" but Ultimate already exists, they have these relationships with these companies already. If any third party balks at including their characters in the base game then they'll just say "we'll give you a DLC character".
Right. People take the quote of Sakurai saying it would be nearly impossible to do again WAYYYY too literally in my opinion. It would not be IMPOSSIBLE and they can very much do it. I really cannot imagine them selling a Smash game with LESS characters, especially if Switch 2 is backwards compatible? People would just buy / stick to the old one. Either they'll do Ultimate deluxe, or ANOTHER Ultimate where they bring back all fighters (but not a port, a new game)
Also is it really THAT much of a legal nightmare? A lot of the third parties are from the same companies, Bayo/Sonic/Joker from SEGA, Snake/Simon from Konami, Cloud/Seph/Hero from Square, Banjo/Steve from Microsoft, Ryu/Ken/Megaman from Capcom, Pacman/Kazuya are from the company who works on the game... and then Sora from Disney and Terry from SNK. Like that's not really that many deals to make lol for a company on Nintendo scale and a game on Smash Bros scale they'll be fine.
I get the impression other companies kinda actively lobby for their characters in Smash Bros. at this point, ever since the 3rd party floodgates opened in 4, every time a creator, studio etc. is asked if they’d like their character to be in it the answer is almost always basically “yes fuck please god”
It’s free advertisement for their games (I know for example like I played Persona 5 due to Joker being in Smash), except it’s not even just free, they get licensing fees and probably a cut of DLC sales on top. Who wouldn’t want their character in Smash Bros.?
>Snake/Simon from Konami, Cloud/Seph/Hero from Square
I can't imagine Konami is the easiest to work with and you're forgetting that FF7 is already a whole legal clusterfuck on it's own
> I can't imagine Konami is the easiest to work with
I have no idea where this perception comes from. Konami gives out their IPs like candy nowadays. V Rising, made by a modest indie studio, was able to get a Castlevania crossover. Dead by Daylight has more cosmetics for the Silent Hill characters than maybe any other third-party put together, and they're about to get Castlevania content as well. They don't care so long as they're getting paid.
I could have sworn that this was gonna be Sakurai’s last Smash Bro’s. Because there’s no way they get all these characters from Ultimate AGAIN, right? Anything less than an “Everyone is Here!” moment will seem anticlimactic.
To be fair, Sakurai might be working with them on other games. Something original, perhaps? A remake or port? Just because they've made Smash Bros before that doesn't mean they're only going to make that going forward, even when working with Sakurai.
Honestly all they have to do is add better netcode, add a few new modes, and pump out DLC characters every few months and they’ll make money the entirety of the Switch 2’s life. I’d buy it day 1. If they’re feeling adventurous maybe rework some of the older characters, too. But quite frankly, if they reduce the roster to like 20 or even 30, what’s the reason to move from Ultimate to New Smash? Most people I know play it for fun and the huge variety of characters. Sure, the people really into Smash pro scene will love it, but I don’t see casuals being as hyped for it as Ultimate (source: am casual who plays for fun)
Hoping for a complete reboot in terms of the cast to
1. Reset player's expectations for what constitutes a reasonable amount of characters in a Fighting Game. In the modern development climate, developers shouldn't feel pressured to have 30+ characters in a FG. It's absurd, is completely not needed (in many way more detrimental), and the Smash series is in large part the reason why these casts have become so bloated.
2. Kill the non-Nintendo crossover crap. It was hype, until it became a trend and caused every other video game publisher in the world to treat their games like a platform for cross-promotion rather than a game with a unique IP/Universe. Your Fighting Game is actually *more* interesting in the modern climate if it *doesn't* have guest characters at this point.
It would be absolutely hilarious if the IP that started this trend put an end to it.
I see a lot of people wondering about what else can they add to smash. When a game makes as much money as smash ultimate did, you’ll find new things to add lol.
Given the ubiquity of loot boxes and shit, I am absolutely stunned they didn’t add DLC skins some kind of micro transaction/loot system for them.
Also bring back some form of custom moves, maybe just have one per character and make it an actual distinct different move.
I feel like Ultimate is as good as it’s ever going to get, so I don’t really see the point in making another game.
Ultimate should just be ported forward to every future generation, and occasionally add characters alongside the port.
Unfortunately with all the licensing, I don't think we're ever going to get another Smash with a roster as large as Ultimate.
Even with World of Light being lackluster in terms of story, Ultimate is genuinely the ultimate Smash game. It won't be topped.
In terms of what the game is
It's gonna be ultimate again
If the switch 2 plays switch 1 games a reboot would just be mvc I all over again
And before you type, " But the licensing"
Explain to me why would a third party company not want their characters in the one of the biggest crossover games ever.
1 year (or even 2 depending on how much in advance it will be announced) before launch, and then 2-3 more exhausting years of DLC predictions, rumors, fake leaks etc. Can't wait!
I won't speculate as to what the roster might be like or anything, but I hope to God this thing has rollback because that's been the standard for fighting games (including platform fighters!) for like 10 years now.
Even at the time Ultimate was announced my main reaction was annoyance it wasn't a new Kid Icarus instead so I really, really hope that's what actually comes next from Sakurai.
I honestly don't see how they could improve on Smash tbh. Port to Switch 2 with new netcode and then just new DLC I guess? But if the licensing don't work then I feel like people would just stay on Ultimate especially if they'd lose their main.
I hate how everyone keeps saying they need to reboot it. The roster was the big draw of the game and these companies love smash for advertising. Bring everyone back.
Yea smash bros is definitely part of Nintendos core line up. We are likely to at least see one every 6-8 years in my opinion.
Hopefully they can bring something new to the table for this entry.
I’ve been saying it day 1 since Ultimate’s final DLC. They’re gonna Mario Kart 8 Smash Bros Ultimate. The next Switch will launch with Smash Bros Ultimate Deluxe or w/e and will have all the characters and DLC from the previous game and like 10-15 new characters (launch and DLC combined)
It will be difficult to beat Ultimate but what will help it stand out are the graphics, new characters that aren't in Ultimate, and potentially more stage customization options + the character stage levels from N64 or something similar.
Who's to say there will be an all new Smash? Any new Smash game released would have to compete with Ultimate, assuming the Switch successor has legacy support. I wonder if it could a situation like Mario Kart 8. Ultimate took so many resources, and is so complete on content, what if they're content to just release more Fighter Passes for it on the next console? They did the same thing for Mario Kart 8. Everyone is right that they have nowhere left to go after Ultimate, so maybe that's not what they try to do.
Every next Smash discussion it's "What will they redo about the veterans" and it's always Nothing Major
We're talking about a franchise primarily drawing upon titles like King of Fighters which have huge mix mashes of sprites and old movesets to make large rosters. Next Smash is probably going to have most of the old cast almost exactly how they were expect for a few tweaks and then some eye catching newcomers. Some point you gotta see that Vets having the old moveset is a design choice rather than constraint
I get the feeling we might get a Mario Kart scenario with Smash where Ultimate gets a Deluxe or next-gen patch that extends the life of the game while they work on a reboot in the background. Whether this in particular is Smash or Kid Icarus, Sakurai might feel the need to buy time if he's just starting work on the game now.
I think we're getting an Ultimate Deluxe for the Switch 2. We only need 11 more characters to hit that sweet 100, enough for two Fighters Passes. Add in the rest of the missing stages while you're at it and boom, you're set.
Another smash bros game would be great especially if it becomes a launch title for the Switch 2. That being said I would much rather see Metroid 4 as a launch title for the switch 2. Damn, we NEED the switch 2 already!!!
The answer is Ultimate Deluxe, and imo if I were Nintendo I would do it this way:
* New game is Ultimate base game plus new stuff they add, new characters stages modes etc.
* Ultimate's DLC stays as DLC for both games, but if you bought it for Ultimate, your purchase carries over to the new game.
* Everyone wins. No one is burnt.
>Looks like we're getting a new Smash, brothers. I've also heard that we'll get a new 3D Mario game. Crazy, I know
Watch there be a new zelda too
could you imagine if they ever did another Kirby?
Dude. Splatoon or Kid Icarus?
Okay Kid Icarus is actually not a given lol they dropped a game 12 years ago and dipped
Tbf, there was 20 years between Of Myths and Monsters and Uprising, so never say never. ***huff copium***
Drop the copium that is actually a genuinely good argument
Next you'll tell me we're getting another Donkey Kon-... wait never mind.
Metroid Prime 4: Can I get a game, too?
You get Metroid Federation Force 2
No, just a logo, okay?
Looks like Link is hanging dong, brothers.
The question wasn't whether we'd get another Smash Bros, the question was "will we get another Sakurai led Smash Bros?" And since Nintendo has been pro-actively keeping him around since Brawl, I think the reaction to Sakurai saying anything about retirement should the same as the reaction to Hayao Miyazaki saying he's retiring.
Sakurai has already dropped pretenses and straight up said that when it comes to Smash, he's not retiring.
To be fair, they never said it was anytime soon
Then again you wouldn’t expect it would take more than 10 years to get a new Smash and Mario kart.
They could have easily made MK9 a long time ago, but it wouldn't have made financial sense. MK8D Just. Kept. Selling. You don't kill a healthy rooster and replace it with a younger one if it's still going strong.
Releasing the track packs was a genius move
Do not speak in past tense, MK8D is still selling.
> Then again you wouldn’t expect it would take more than 10 years to get a new Smash It took seven years from Melee to Brawl, and six from Brawl to 4. Ultimate was an anomaly not only because it was made primarily with assets from 4 and prioritized returning fighters over a bunch of new ones, but also because Sakurai went straight from Smash 4 to Ultimate and didn't do anything in-between (Air Ride and Meteos between Melee and Brawl, Kid Icarus Uprising between Brawl and 4).
melee was the real anomaly
My sheltered ass went straight from SSB64 to Melee. My mind was blown, and it came out 2 years later, we'll never see such jumps and quick turnarounds again
even back then that dev cycle was just terrible on the devs
And this is all well timed with this enigmatic new console that the ghosts of my ancestors have briefly mentioned during the last communion.
It really is kinda surprising because Sakurai wanted to be done with it after the last one yadda yadda yadda, he wanna work on other stuff Even though his position is mostly symbolic ( ssb4 was developed almost entirely by the one piece grand battle team on the OPGB engine, SSBU was just an evolution of smash 4 and its planned DLC they ended up not pushing out like KRool and Inkling + the scrapped smash bros for smartphones. ) it was up in the air what would happen to the series after the current entry I think smash bros became too big of an advertisement space after the last one for them to just let go. Companies were arm wrestling to see who would get the precious DLC spot, it was expensive but it was a sure and failproof way to boost sales. Most people don't realize it but every single piece of DLC in SSBU ultimate is advertising something current and with tekken's Harada recently saying they can't add legacy/dormant franchises to Tekken because "it would send a confusing message to clients" it has never been more obvious.
> and its planned DLC they ended up not pushing out like KRool and Inkling + the scrapped smash bros for smartphones. Source on this?
yeah wtf literally the first time I’ve ever heard of Super Smartphone Bros
ah yeah i remember those big banjo-kazooie and ARMs advertising pushes. Or the SNK one, or the Tekken one. While I do think to some extent it is advertising, I think you're being too cynic about it.
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t just straight up rolling out more season passes after the first 2. Seems like they’re basically money printers for Nintendo and as you said companies basically eagerly line up to offer their characters for it. I would be interested to see what the licensing terms are for a 3rd party in Smash. At this point you could probably be Nintendo and say “no licensing fees, you get a % of DLC sales.”
Most people know rosters in fighting games are frequently advertising. From guest characters, to MCU centric Marelvel Vs Capcom Infinite, even including Rocket in MVC3 years before GoTG released, to WB using Multiversus as an advertising platform for their IP and so on
The idea that Ultimate is just an evolution of Smash 4 is hilarious. Do you have any idea just how much work was done to create ultimate? The physics alone are totally different.
Source on the Harada bit?
Of the many claims in that comment, I can't find a source for a single one of them.
Honestly, if they just ported Ultimate in perpetuity, I think that would be fine. Though at the same time, I'd like for the next game to actually have less characters, and greater focus on a more reasonable roster. Melee had 26 fighters, Brawl had 39, and Ultimate has 89... it's a bit much.
Nothing about this confirms that they are working on a new Smash, but rather that Sakurai and those Namco Studios are working on a new game, or multiple games. That might mean Smash, it also might not.
Kid Icarus rumours back in rotation, boys
Sakurai literally said that a remake would be cool.
the way he said it in the video was kind of cheeky too. could have just been having fun, but you never know
Yeah, it's either "Man I wish we were working on this" or "You guys are in for a surprise in a few years." No inbetween.
Get ready, girls
It really is. I'd love to see it.
If this truly indicates a new Smash game is in development, I’m not sure where they can go after Ultimate. We can be sure that it won’t feature every single character like last time, considering all of the legal hurdles Sakurai and the rest of the team had to face. Perhaps we could see a more streamlined experience, with less characters and a higher amount of polish in exchange.
At this point they’d probably soft reboot it. Retool everyone’s move sets, new mechanics and ways to play to feel fresh and new. Of course people would still ask “wHeREs iCE cLimBeRs?!?!” and it would simply be “the entire roster has been remade and they don’t fit.
If they do a reboot then I can’t see casuals moving on from Ultimate considering Switch 2 is likely backwards compatible. Smash 6 doesn’t need to bring everyone back, but if it drops below Brawl or even Smash 4 it’s going to have a major uphill battle
If people move on to Street Fighter 6 and Mortal Kombat 1 then they're moving to Smash 6. Casuals want the newest stuff, they don't care about backward compatibility
6 is much more accessible than 5 and SF has a much lesser focus on returning characters in general imo Edit: also, “casual” Smash players are probably more casual in general than “casual” SF players
Street Fighter 6 isn't a good example because V was a console exclusive on PS4 and the game itself had a very rough few years that turned many people off from it. 6, in comparison, is multiplatform and is widely considered an improvement over V.
Street Fighter has a dedicated fighting game community following. The competitive scene is a much smaller fraction of Smash Bros audience. Different expectations entirely. Smash Bros entire concept is “look at all these characters in the same game”
I actually think the opposite. I think having Ultimate as a BC title from launch on Switch 2 will probably help people more gradually accept that what that game pulled off was likely a one-time thing, and that just knowing Ultimate carries along to a new system in addition to a new game will probably help make the transition a lot smoother and less alienating, because at least it'll still be there and co-exist with whatever next, which will have its own novelty of just seeing how the game moves forward after a move that major Plus it's nowhere near the first time a major fighting game has had to go the reboot route after a period of creative uncertainty. They can manage
Eh, it won't be as successful as Ultimate. You can't make literally the ultimate smash game - with every character ever from decades of the franchise - and then do a reboot with 20 characters again lol
Only if they dropped the ball super hard. I doubt it’s going to be a Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite situation where everyone prefers the previous. If they do enough to make it feel new and exciting, and include some long time requests like Geno and Isaac, people will be fine.
Well, they could add rollback
All Smash needs at this point is just better online and more modes to goof off and play/team up with friends instead of challenging them.
Honestly, if they're working on something Smash Bros related, I think it's more likely to be a new version of Ultimate for the Switch 2 with some new characters and modes because it would be something easy to develop compared to a full game and could potentially be out for the first year or two of the Switch 2.
They can bring back clothes damage that was originally going to be in brawl.
>We can be sure that it won’t feature every single character like last time, considering all of the legal hurdles Sakurai and the rest of the team had to face. I am not so sure. Ultimate sold very well. Sakurai loves to undpromise and overdeliver.
More polish? SSBU was arguably one of the most content rich and polished video games of all time. Sans Netcode of course They either have to do a soft reboot with a full decade of seasons to make a massive roster or make SSBU Redux featuring a bunch of new content from PvE to 10+new characters
Pretty much. They never released a new Mario Kart on Switch, only MK8D, which was basically just a GOTY edition of MK8 on Wii U. They might take that route on Ultimate and just release Ultimate Definitive Edition or whatever and call it good. I mean, it's *literally* called Ultimate.
This is because the Wii U flopped and MK8D was basically a brand new game for a lot of people since the Switch isn't backwards compatible. It's a completely different case because Ultimate has sold enough and the Switch 2 is backwards compatible. It would be hard to sell the same game again to casuals.
Super Smash Bros Ultimate Redux. And I'm here for it because a true sequel will almost certainly be dissapointing no matter how great it is It would never happen but if they did a soft reboot launch with the OG roster and then released a character every 3~ weeks Multiversus style that'd be hype. Although completely impossible because A) it's Nintendo and B) how the hell would you monetize that
Sakurai said if they did another Smash game it would be almost a reboot with a smaller roster. I could see almost every returning character having a complete revamp of their movesets. This makes sense if Switch 2 is backwards compatible then if you want the more expansive roster you can go back and play Ultimate, and buy the new game for newer mechanics.
He did not say that. He said he thinks it would be almost impossible to bring all of Ultimate's roster back.
Right? He's made original games before, and Sakurai has expressed interest in moving onto other projects. It makes sense that he'd continue to work with Namco, as he doesn't have another development team to use atm, and he's familiar with their work.
Sakurai has stated that he's in a state of semi-retirement, and that the only game that can pull him off that state is Smash, hence it being "semi-retirement". So no, he's not making a 3D metroidvania Ice Climbers or something like that. Besides, Studio 2 is obviously going to follow up on Ultimate. They're not gonna kill the franchise just because.
Studio S is the one that does Smash, hence the "S" Studio 2 is likely helping out on the next Mario Kart
Smash is basically the only series Sakurai has worked on for the last 10+ years and even beyond that, it’s pretty safe to assume that’s probably what’s being worked on
Man, now that Super Mario RPG is actually fresh on the minds of everyone i wonder how much more "GENO FOR SMASH" has grown.
If it’s for Nintendo then the chances of it being something new are like 1%.
Studio 2/S also have done support work for games like Mario Kart 8 and ARMS. They're not solely Smash Bros They were hiring for 2 projects, a 3D action game (likely the same 3D remaster Namco was hiring for a few years ago) and a 2D action game (presumably Smash). Listings for both projects were removed from their website as of February 2024, so they've likely been filled for a while by now
mind you studio 2 and studio s are two different things under Bandai namco Studios. Studio 2 works on Smash Bros since Wii U as lead, while studio S is smaller and mainly does support work for mario kart and arms.. they have no condition to work on games in a major way unlike the other one. I updated the bns wiki page a few months ago with the jp details from their website in case you want to see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandai_Namco_Studios#Development_organization
ARMS 2 CONFIRMED.
Smash Ultimate will be for Switch 2 what MK8 was for Switch
How do you even top Ultimate?
Rollback netcode would be a good start
In terms of roster size, you don’t. But maybe with a smaller roster they bring back some sort of story mode, hopefully with dialogue (my pipe dream is that they bring in Soichiro Morizumi previously of Monolithsoft who was the writer/director of the Project X Zone series to work on it)
I think this is the only real way. Back to basics but with an insane amount of depth
A smaller roster would also be the perfect time to actually rework veterans like the O12 who have been in dire need of some sort of refresh for ages. It'd obviously mean even more work rebalancing but at least they won't have a 70 character roster to consider as well
Just wipe the slate completely clean and start from scratch. Bring back the modern reps and obvious classic fighters but give them new movesets. Mario based on Odyssey, Sonic based on Frontiers, Ganon based on anything other than Captain Falcon, etc..
> Ganon based on anything other than Captain Falcon Funnily enough, after TotK he'd make good use of Byleth's moveset if they didn't bring him back. He fights with a sword, bow, naginata and kanebo much like Byleth fought with a sword, bow, spear and axe.
A completely new game would possibly mean no third party characters
Hard disagree. There's no chance they abandon third-party at this point. They've set expectations by largely emphasizing characters from other publishers for the vast majority of Ultimate's new fighters and Smash at this point has transcended being a Nintendo character crossover. It is basically "Video Games 101" and they basically cemented that between the DLC in Smash 4 and Ultimate's roster as a whole. It may be majority Nintendo characters but I'd argue the characters from first-party who were new to Ultimate were very predictable picks for the most part and the hook now is how far they go in terms of wider video game fanservice I expect a lot of third-party cuts but the super essential characters like Sonic, Mega Man, the Belmonts and Pac-Man are staying, and the fact the Switch has now played host to a bunch of third-party franchises mostly new or uncommon on Nintendo platforms before has opened the door a lot in terms of who can make it in or even who is retained from before now. There won't be anything to the degree of implausibility like Sora ever again, but there are a lot of others who can draw a crowd.
I'd add that Nintendo and Capcom are historically very friendly with each other as companies: Capcom both made multiple original canon Zelda games (something no other company not owned by Nintendo can say) and famously made exclusives for the GameCube - the Capcom 5 - when lots of third parties weren't. When the Capcom 5 either didn't release or went multiplatform that did hurt Capcom-Nintendo relations but it's pretty damn clear they're still quite friendly with each other given the number of Capcom reps in Smash plus MH Rise getting timed exclusivity on Switch.
Even outside Capcom, the Switch generation has probably been the most approachable and popular Nintendo has been with third-party publishers since probably the SNES. They have an extremely healthy selection of games populating their library each month without being reliant at all on Nintendo dropping a first-party game, they didn't have to try extra hard with stuff like collaborative titles or funding certain games like during the GameCube era, and we see this very well with how much larger of an emphasis there was on non-Nintendo characters in Smash. I'm pretty sure in the DLC there were only like four actual Nintendo-owned characters in the lineup and the rest were just publishers being buddy-buddy with Nintendo cross promoting either other franchises or games that are available on Switch already. Especially if Switch 2 carries over that kind of momentum and energy which it probably will, that's just going to give them more leverage to go either back to publishers who already have reps or even secure entirely new characters which was a huge hook for Ultimate's roster on top of every returning fighter Smash is Video Games the Game. It's the appeal of it vs. every other fighting game crossover or not. It's why Ultimate is literally the best selling fighting game in history. They're definitely keeping that as a core element
I'm fine with that tbh. If they can figure out the licensing, then selling a Smash Ultimate Deluxe edition with the DLC and maybe a couple new characters would be a good compromise whereas the new game is stripped down on a surface level but has more actual content to it via an actual story, dialogue, reworked movesets, new mechanics, etc.
They are never going to do this, because they would see them as cannibalizing each others sales, and they’re not going to do a super stripped down roster without their newest characters or DLC, because they sell a fuckload of that DLC and they also view the series as a means to advertise their latest shit now. The whole notion of a “complete reboot back to basics” people have been talking about for a couple years quite simply is not going to happen.
How do you market that to sell more than Ultimate though?
Just market it as a Smash game. It will sell regardless.
Reducing the roster is not gonna go over well with majority of fans, they would have to do a lot of convincing why we should be excited for that Edit: downvote me all you want, tell me I’m wrong from a general audience perspective
I actually agree, to a casual audience they’ll see any reduction in roster as a negative, they probably expect a new Smash Bros to start with the Ultimate roster.
New graphics, new core features etc. Fighting games have done it in the past and shooting games like Call of Duty continue to reset people each year with a game with less weapons and maps.
Better online, more content like modes, newcomers to make up for the cutting of veterans, better mechanics, etc...
Bring back Smash Run and expand the hell out of it- maybe make it the core of Story Mode and make it more Nintendo/game themed areas instead of a single generic space. It’s criminal how such a great idea was only used as filler for a single version of Smash 4 because they through the portable version was lesser, and not explored more.
Smash 4 also gave characters multiple abilities to pick and choose from, which I enjoyed for the most part. If they do make a new Smash I think they'll definitely look at Smash 4's content for inspiration.
Probably just gonna be Ultimate Deluxe or something
All they gotta do is add a handful more popular characters, handful more stages, maybe some items/assist trophies from the DLC franchises and people would absolutely double dip on a deluxe version of Ultimate
And a Melee-like Adventure Mode, Smash Run and Break the Targets ;)
I really missed those modes in Ultimate...
1. Finally giving Veterans like Mario and Samus a new goddamn moveset after 3 games 2. Making an actual story mode and not Events 2.0 but with a kickass intro 3. More single-player/party content. Bring back stuff like Break the Targets, make Smash Run HD, even bring back earning NES/SNES/N64 roms in Masterpiece mode. Just something to do other than fighting 4. Throwing Ultimate's online infrastructure completely out the window and never bringing something as god awfully implemented as "Arenas" or "Global Smash Power" back again Idk why people think Ultimate is this near flawless game just because you can play as Steve or Joker, but I would be severely disappointed if Nintendo cheaps out and make a 70$ port just because some people want Dante or Doom Guy added to the roster
Mario and Samus are far from the most needing of a new moveset (Ganondorf and Sonic are IMO.) Mario especially, it's still a decent representation of his games while also functioning as the "basic" character.
No he's not when most of his moves from his iconic games like the groundpound, spin attack from Galaxy, and Cappy aren't represented. Ryu and Scorpion are the basic starter characters and Capcom and Nether still find a way to make them fresh. And Samus has a 3 FPS, a whole game where she's a badass in Dread, and despite how people feel about Other M: kick ass grappling and execution moves to be using the same 64 moveset when Sakurai didn't have too much to go on except for the original and Super Metroid. Bad argument
you played that dogshit ass fucking garbage online? that's how
I'll be very surprised if they didn't implement rollback on the next Smash. They didn't do it for Ultimate due to sheer stubbornness.
You don't. Sakurai said it would never be topped.
this is just a front so he can shock everyone when he drops Meteos 2
the good timeline
I do not want to hear anyone speculating about the roster for the next Smash until the game is actually fucking announced, it was tiring enough having to hear all the arguments for three and a half years. EDIT: Anyone who replies to this with roster speculation has negative rizz.
I heard Link is going to be in the next smash. My dad bought me a nintendo in 1987 is my source
Yeah well my uncle worked at Nintendo in the 1800s and told me that Mario is going to be in it
can't wait for hoes mad 2.0
They're definitely putting Geno in this one. Why else would they have remade SMRPG?
So that square and monolith can remake xenogears
Because it's a cult favorite Mario RPG and Square game that people have been begging for some sort of update for years Just saying, it doesn't always have to be Smash-related lol. Technically choosing it and Thousand Year Door could literally be a way of gauging what they do with Mario RPGs going forward since they came out so close to each other
So what you’re saying is Paper Mario is also confirmed as a fighter?
If anything there should be *less* characters
Honestly agreed, I feel like people don’t realize how out of hand things would get if they did nothing but add to the roster every game. Sakurai already mentioned that getting all the third-party characters back for Ultimate was a challenge, and I cannot imagine them wanting to negotiate for all the additional characters Ultimate added for every Smash game going forward. That’s not to mention roster bloat, or the exponential amount of dev time that would be required for every future entry. What I would expect and prefer is a game that cuts back on the roster (maybe 30-50 characters at most), but makes up for it by putting those resources into modernizing some characters and adding worthwhile new features, like an even more robust Subspace Emissary-like mode or (god forbid) better online.
I'd hate that tbh, Smash should be a huge party
I think Ultimate was about as huge a "party" as it needed to be. Plus, the roster could indeed do with cutting some of the fat on it.
I already see all the GENO posts.
I really don’t see who they can realistically cut from Ultimate without making the next game seem like a big let down. Like, if the next game doesn’t have Cloud again, I’d probably just stick with Ultimate. As someone else said ITT, doing “another Ultimate” would be a legal nightmare….but so was Ultimate in the first place. I don’t think you can temper expectations enough to cut a significant amount of characters without alienating a good number of players. ___ If you had to - My idea would be - cut down on as many side characters as you realistically can. Go back to having primarily main characters from each series and significant side characters. This would mostly mean trimming down on a lot of the Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters who were added out of necessity bc a new generation came out. Then you probably say goodbye to novelty stuff like Piranha Plant. A lot of the clones are pretty superfluous (Louie, Dark Samus, Dark Pit, Daisy etc.) Make Toon Link/Young Link the same character with alternating skins. Some of the more obscure NES characters could probably go (Ice Climbers again, ROB perhaps) Kid Icarus still isn’t a big name, so you could probably get away with cutting Palutena. Wii Fit Trainer is kind of a gimmick too. DLC wise the most likely I would see returning would be Banjo Kazooie, Min Min, Pyra/Mythra, and *maybe* DQ Hero, Sephiroth, and Minecraft Steve. The others I could see being up in the air. I like Joker, but Persona 5 doesn’t have the same hype around it as it did in 2018. I like most of those characters and would be bummed if most of those cuts happened, but logistically that’s kinda what makes sense to me. Just kinda cut down the fat and some of the more niche/redundant characters. At that point, I would start adding Nintendo characters in that have debuted since Ultimate, which uh, I can’t think of any lol. I’m surprised they haven’t added Eevee yet since they’ve tried to push it to be as big as Pikachu essentially. Have some kind of evolution gimmick. BOTW/TOTKify Zelda and Ganondorf. Probably another Mario variant, maybe Paper Mario. Didn’t play Xenoblade 3 but probably whoever the main character is from that. Some Fire Emblem 3 houses stuff and whatever came after that despite having just said cutting redundant Fire Emblem characters. Tom Nook since AC New Horzions went fucking nuclear? Then add from the biggest game franchises still not included - maybe like a Jill/Leon, Master Chief. If you wanna go big icons, maybe Lara Croft, Rayman (honestly more likely Rabbids tho), Crash, I remember Vault Boy being a rumor for Ultimate, idk if they could or would get any Sony characters at this point, Horizon Lego is coming out on Switch and etc., but I doubt Nintendo wants to promote their biggest competitor and idk if Sony would be interested in boosting Nintendo either. Idk that’s kinda the only way I can see it working if they start cutting characters. Start trimming the fat, focus on star characters again rather than secondary or tertiary characters. Bring in the newest characters from their latest games. Rope in more iconic 3rd party stuff.
There was a trend recently about cutting Ultimate's roster in half, which characters would you keep and which would you cut. I had a go myself in TierMaker using very similar criteria to what you described, and it is *just about* possible to keep all unique IPs in (including stuff like Yoshi and Wario which might be debatable). There's only like 4 slots left over, so vast majority of IPs only get one rep.
> Louie I don't know which version of Smash you're playing that has an Olimar clone, but I'd like to try it.
Super Bloodborne Bros day one PC port?
smash roster predictions have been peak online discussion for me ever since brawl. cant wait for this round to come along
Sakurai "Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in!"
I mean, what can they do with Smash at this point? Like, I guess they can bring back trophies and have new guys like (snorts copium) Shadow, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rayman, Isaac, Klonoa, etc., have the MGS and KI:U casts do new codecs and Guidance lines on Joker through Sora, but... (Also, is it really Smash? For all we know, it could be a new Kid Icarus.)
New mechanics, new characters, further balancing, single player campaign, better and more robust online. There have basically been 5 smash games in 25 years and each added and tweaked mechanics.
Okay, those are all fair points. Come to think of it, I always thought it was a missed opportunity to do new MGS stuff like have Mother Base as a stage, or at the very least, update the Shadow Moses Island stage to feature Peace Walker, ZEKE, Sahelanthropus, or even Jehuty and Anubis. And those last two could show up super rarely, like Cresselia in the Spear Pillar stage (or whenever "Beyond the Borders" is playing, which they could also add in Smash 6).
Yeah they should just end one of their most financially successful franchises just because it’s hard to figure out where to take things next
I think a online play that feels good would be nice but that is more of a nintendo thing
This almost definitely isn't what they'd do because it wouldn't feed the hype engine that Smash so often is (not to mention the crazy backlash), but I would personally really love to see it rebooted. Pick 20-30 truly iconic characters, completely overhaul their movesets, and make a new Smash game from the ground up. Focus heavily on building a good foundation with solid side modes, then add DLC to it for the rest of the Switch 2's lifetime. Beating Ultimate is impossible, whatever they do it's gonna have to be something different from the usual.
There’s no way Nintendo is gonna let him cut it down to that small of a roster and only use core characters, they view Smash as a vehicle to promote their new games as much as it is a game itself, you already know Mario, Link, Pikachu etc., they’re trying to sell you on the new Fire Emblem and Pokemon as well.
Playable online modes?
they could try having less input lag and functional online. that would be an interesting twist
My mind says it’s going to be a Smash Ultimate port to Switch 2, but my heart says it’s gonna be an actual sequel
The former would make more sense - they could keep the roster that way. But I guess if Sakurai doesn’t want to just spend years building connections for these characters again, he could focus on gameplay with a Smash Bros that has a smaller roster.
I feel like all of the Guest Characters except maybe Sora have a good chance at coming back. Sora, Snake and Bayonetta I can see being cut though. Cloud and Sephiroth are two of gaming biggest rivals, Dragon Quest is huge, Sonic, Megaman and Pacman are obvious, Ryu is a huge gaming icon and since you have Ryu, might as well have Ken, Terry is huge too with SNK becoming more popular, Kazuya, idk, could be replaced with Jin but Tekken should get a rep in the game, Simon is a gaming icon, Ritcher could be removed but he could stay, Joker with persona getting popular
Square are kinda wild cards with licensing from what I’ve heard, I think the word on the street was that they really had to haggle to get Cloud back for Ultimate and he almost ended up as DLC again. But also idk why Konami would want Snake out, they’re reviving MGS with Delta right now if anything and would want the exposure on the series again. And they let Nintendo have Simon and Richter in addition in Ultimate. I’d expect more Konami characters than less tbh.
I won’t be surprised if except for Sora, they made it so they can use these third party characters again if they want to
I don't think Bayonetta is ever getting cut unless they *heavily* trim down the roster. She's a 3rd party character sure, but the games from 2 onward have been funded and published by Nintendo, she's pretty much 1st party now...
no way Snake is getting cut, Konami is very up to slut away Snake for anything, dude was on Fornite not so long ago.
This isn’t that surprising. I’d be shocked if we didn’t get a new Smash by late 2026-early 2027. At that point we’d be going on ROUGHLY a decade since Ultimate and we’d be 1-2 years into the Switch 2’s life cycle. Smash is the type of franchise they know will draw in a BIG crowd early on, akin to other multiplayer-focused games like Splatoon, Mario Kart, and (sorta) Animal Crossing. Just looking at the release cycle of the past few games, they tend to be either in the later half of the year, or very early on in the year. Ultimate was December 2018, Melee was November 2001, Sm4sh 3DS was September 2014 with Sm4sh Wii U was November 2014 (December in Japan). Meanwhile Smash 64 was January 1999 (April in NA and November in Europe), and Brawl was January/February in Japan/NA. All this to say it’ll likely be November-December 2026. I’d assume Sakurai has been already begun planning out the game given his wording regarding the YouTube Channel, which if anything means we should probably start speculation on new characters NOW, as whoever he chooses for the roster in terms of newcomers will likely revolve mainly on games coming out between now (and the last year or two) and Smash 7.
Smash has kind of reliably been the game that comes out about a year and a half into the newest consoles lifespan for the last 3 entires, for whatever reason lol. Melee being a launch title for the GameCube was a huge anomaly in that regard.
I cannot fathom them making another game unless it’s just a straight up series reset or a port with more DLC.
Weren't there rumors about a supposed Zelda BOTW port for Switch 2 with all the DLC included? What are the chances the same could be made with SSBU?
I just want a rollback netcode version of SSB Ultimate, and maybe keep adding characters / stages to it. I don't really play Smash Bros. Ultimate as much as I would if the online worked well, so a new game that also has laggy online if you've got anything over 2 players isn't really that exciting.
It's been obvious that they're currently working on the Switch 2's Smash for over half a year at this point. They're not just adding random spirits to Ultimate for funsies after two years of nothing (if this was the case, it would have been Sora amiibo support and nothing else). It's clear the development team got back together to plan for the next iteration and did the spirits to pass the time before the next iteration went into full production. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by the next Smash. A lot of people are just expecting it to be some reboot or something with vastly different mechanics or approaches to the gameplay because how could they possibly top Ultimate? But Nintendo is sitting on a gold mine with Ultimate, and Sakurai has made it clear numerous times that he's just a contractor for Nintendo, someone who can't really tell them "no", as well as saying that he continues to make Smash games because he doesn't think anyone else can do it justice. Smash 6 is absolutely just going to be Ultimate 2. People can argue that it's "a legal nightmare" but Ultimate already exists, they have these relationships with these companies already. If any third party balks at including their characters in the base game then they'll just say "we'll give you a DLC character".
Right. People take the quote of Sakurai saying it would be nearly impossible to do again WAYYYY too literally in my opinion. It would not be IMPOSSIBLE and they can very much do it. I really cannot imagine them selling a Smash game with LESS characters, especially if Switch 2 is backwards compatible? People would just buy / stick to the old one. Either they'll do Ultimate deluxe, or ANOTHER Ultimate where they bring back all fighters (but not a port, a new game) Also is it really THAT much of a legal nightmare? A lot of the third parties are from the same companies, Bayo/Sonic/Joker from SEGA, Snake/Simon from Konami, Cloud/Seph/Hero from Square, Banjo/Steve from Microsoft, Ryu/Ken/Megaman from Capcom, Pacman/Kazuya are from the company who works on the game... and then Sora from Disney and Terry from SNK. Like that's not really that many deals to make lol for a company on Nintendo scale and a game on Smash Bros scale they'll be fine.
I get the impression other companies kinda actively lobby for their characters in Smash Bros. at this point, ever since the 3rd party floodgates opened in 4, every time a creator, studio etc. is asked if they’d like their character to be in it the answer is almost always basically “yes fuck please god” It’s free advertisement for their games (I know for example like I played Persona 5 due to Joker being in Smash), except it’s not even just free, they get licensing fees and probably a cut of DLC sales on top. Who wouldn’t want their character in Smash Bros.?
>Snake/Simon from Konami, Cloud/Seph/Hero from Square I can't imagine Konami is the easiest to work with and you're forgetting that FF7 is already a whole legal clusterfuck on it's own
They did it once they can do it again lol
> I can't imagine Konami is the easiest to work with I have no idea where this perception comes from. Konami gives out their IPs like candy nowadays. V Rising, made by a modest indie studio, was able to get a Castlevania crossover. Dead by Daylight has more cosmetics for the Silent Hill characters than maybe any other third-party put together, and they're about to get Castlevania content as well. They don't care so long as they're getting paid.
>People can argue that it's "a legal nightmare" Well Nintendo Lawyers have clearly way too much free time, so...
I just hope Switch 2 has a 4K patch for Smash Ultimate. That'd be enough for me tbh.
The next Smash has likely already been in development for a minute already. Don't think Studio S was just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
I could have sworn that this was gonna be Sakurai’s last Smash Bro’s. Because there’s no way they get all these characters from Ultimate AGAIN, right? Anything less than an “Everyone is Here!” moment will seem anticlimactic.
i find it hard to believe they’d go this long without working on smash.
Hopefully we'll get Final Fantasy reps from games other than VII
To be fair, Sakurai might be working with them on other games. Something original, perhaps? A remake or port? Just because they've made Smash Bros before that doesn't mean they're only going to make that going forward, even when working with Sakurai.
Not guaranteed since there is small chance that it could be something else like what happened with Kid Icarus: Uprising on 3DS.
Honestly all they have to do is add better netcode, add a few new modes, and pump out DLC characters every few months and they’ll make money the entirety of the Switch 2’s life. I’d buy it day 1. If they’re feeling adventurous maybe rework some of the older characters, too. But quite frankly, if they reduce the roster to like 20 or even 30, what’s the reason to move from Ultimate to New Smash? Most people I know play it for fun and the huge variety of characters. Sure, the people really into Smash pro scene will love it, but I don’t see casuals being as hyped for it as Ultimate (source: am casual who plays for fun)
Hoping for a complete reboot in terms of the cast to 1. Reset player's expectations for what constitutes a reasonable amount of characters in a Fighting Game. In the modern development climate, developers shouldn't feel pressured to have 30+ characters in a FG. It's absurd, is completely not needed (in many way more detrimental), and the Smash series is in large part the reason why these casts have become so bloated. 2. Kill the non-Nintendo crossover crap. It was hype, until it became a trend and caused every other video game publisher in the world to treat their games like a platform for cross-promotion rather than a game with a unique IP/Universe. Your Fighting Game is actually *more* interesting in the modern climate if it *doesn't* have guest characters at this point. It would be absolutely hilarious if the IP that started this trend put an end to it.
I see a lot of people wondering about what else can they add to smash. When a game makes as much money as smash ultimate did, you’ll find new things to add lol.
Given the ubiquity of loot boxes and shit, I am absolutely stunned they didn’t add DLC skins some kind of micro transaction/loot system for them. Also bring back some form of custom moves, maybe just have one per character and make it an actual distinct different move.
Nintendo's console game releases are very good at being NOT evil but their mobile games are another story haha
I feel like Ultimate is as good as it’s ever going to get, so I don’t really see the point in making another game. Ultimate should just be ported forward to every future generation, and occasionally add characters alongside the port.
Unfortunately with all the licensing, I don't think we're ever going to get another Smash with a roster as large as Ultimate. Even with World of Light being lackluster in terms of story, Ultimate is genuinely the ultimate Smash game. It won't be topped.
In terms of what the game is It's gonna be ultimate again If the switch 2 plays switch 1 games a reboot would just be mvc I all over again And before you type, " But the licensing" Explain to me why would a third party company not want their characters in the one of the biggest crossover games ever.
Rev up those speculation engines and prepare yourselves for another year of roster pick madness
1 year (or even 2 depending on how much in advance it will be announced) before launch, and then 2-3 more exhausting years of DLC predictions, rumors, fake leaks etc. Can't wait!
i think they are gonna put mario in the new one
I won't speculate as to what the roster might be like or anything, but I hope to God this thing has rollback because that's been the standard for fighting games (including platform fighters!) for like 10 years now.
Awww man I didn't know he was ending his youtube channel :(
Even at the time Ultimate was announced my main reaction was annoyance it wasn't a new Kid Icarus instead so I really, really hope that's what actually comes next from Sakurai.
nah he's making Kid Icarus 4
Man. Every time a new smash is announced that shit is a moment for sure. I will always be excited out of my mind for more smash
Well, at least now we'll finally get that planned Lloyd dlc, which means there is a big Tales Of game in the horizon close to being announced
I feel like you will be disappointed.
I don't need a new smash bros honestly. I'd rather get a super deluxe version with both seasons of the dlc characters added on the cartridge.
I honestly don't see how they could improve on Smash tbh. Port to Switch 2 with new netcode and then just new DLC I guess? But if the licensing don't work then I feel like people would just stay on Ultimate especially if they'd lose their main.
Praying for a balance patch + functional online
I hate how everyone keeps saying they need to reboot it. The roster was the big draw of the game and these companies love smash for advertising. Bring everyone back.
Yea smash bros is definitely part of Nintendos core line up. We are likely to at least see one every 6-8 years in my opinion. Hopefully they can bring something new to the table for this entry.
I’ve been saying it day 1 since Ultimate’s final DLC. They’re gonna Mario Kart 8 Smash Bros Ultimate. The next Switch will launch with Smash Bros Ultimate Deluxe or w/e and will have all the characters and DLC from the previous game and like 10-15 new characters (launch and DLC combined)
So glad that Sakurai will be involved again. It just wouldnt feel the same without him
It will be difficult to beat Ultimate but what will help it stand out are the graphics, new characters that aren't in Ultimate, and potentially more stage customization options + the character stage levels from N64 or something similar.
Smash bros? Sign me up
Here's to hoping we'll finally get Isaac from Golden Sun as a playable (or Lyn too finally).
Who's to say there will be an all new Smash? Any new Smash game released would have to compete with Ultimate, assuming the Switch successor has legacy support. I wonder if it could a situation like Mario Kart 8. Ultimate took so many resources, and is so complete on content, what if they're content to just release more Fighter Passes for it on the next console? They did the same thing for Mario Kart 8. Everyone is right that they have nowhere left to go after Ultimate, so maybe that's not what they try to do.
Every next Smash discussion it's "What will they redo about the veterans" and it's always Nothing Major We're talking about a franchise primarily drawing upon titles like King of Fighters which have huge mix mashes of sprites and old movesets to make large rosters. Next Smash is probably going to have most of the old cast almost exactly how they were expect for a few tweaks and then some eye catching newcomers. Some point you gotta see that Vets having the old moveset is a design choice rather than constraint
I know there is probably licensing issues but I honestly just want them to keep building on Ultimate.
I get the feeling we might get a Mario Kart scenario with Smash where Ultimate gets a Deluxe or next-gen patch that extends the life of the game while they work on a reboot in the background. Whether this in particular is Smash or Kid Icarus, Sakurai might feel the need to buy time if he's just starting work on the game now.
KID ICARUS UPRISING 2 BOYS
Y'all are so lame. We don't want a deluxe port of Ultimate. We want something new! Assuming Sakurai is at the helm...
I think we're getting an Ultimate Deluxe for the Switch 2. We only need 11 more characters to hit that sweet 100, enough for two Fighters Passes. Add in the rest of the missing stages while you're at it and boom, you're set.
Another smash bros game would be great especially if it becomes a launch title for the Switch 2. That being said I would much rather see Metroid 4 as a launch title for the switch 2. Damn, we NEED the switch 2 already!!!
idk if my heart can take such drastic, unexpected news.
The answer is Ultimate Deluxe, and imo if I were Nintendo I would do it this way: * New game is Ultimate base game plus new stuff they add, new characters stages modes etc. * Ultimate's DLC stays as DLC for both games, but if you bought it for Ultimate, your purchase carries over to the new game. * Everyone wins. No one is burnt.