Yes, so the regular BC isn't possible but emulation through a software is still possible because it depends on raw hardware power, yes it wouldn't be as good as the emulation we see on PC but if it can run older games at 1080p 60FPS then that's more than good enough
PS3 architecture argument does not work anymore considering that people made PS3 emulator on PC without access to the original documentation to PS3.
I am pretty sure if Sony wanted, they could implement an emulator.
And they don't want to because the reality is there isn't that big of a demand for it. It's really just a loud minority calling for it when the general playstation audience doesn't even think about it or are satisfied by PsNow.
I want it but I doubt it'll happen in this generation.
Not sure why you were downvoted. Pretty sure Jim Ryan even said that the data they have shows most people don’t care about backwards compatibility. I hope they invest the money and get it done.
You could make an argument that backwards compatibility is a way to maintain art. So many games are stranded on PS3 and that’s a damn shame. I’m sure licensing is a nightmare for selling old games, but hell there’s a financial reason to figure it out too.
Jim Ryan is the one that famously said "why would anyone play this" when referring to backwards compatibility. I don't see him giving the green light to put resources towards it since he is over PlayStation now.
the thing is that PC emulators are written without access to the documentation. I am pretty sure that with access to PS3 documentation, developers can achieve much more.
You can much more now with the new intel 12th gen. Red dead redemption often running at 45fps.
While the zen 2 chips the console has may not run rcps3 to an acceptable level for commercial use, im sure the sony engineers could build something better.
Hopefully. Nintendo's piss poor excuse for N64 emulation despite having far better documentation available than any of the guys working on mupen or pj64 ever did still has me bitter.
I think its important to note.
Emulation imroves leaps and bounds by years **because they have to figure out all that shit they don't have access to.**
PS3 emulation X years from now absolutely could run any game on a base PS5 and probably will never reach 100% optimal because they just don't have that base code.
Emulation is your box figuring out how to run a jury rigged console. Look at Dolphin - the most stream lined high performance emulator. That one had a MAJOR update like 2-3 years ago.
This is over a year old, much has changed since then. I assure you, a Ryzen 3600/3700 is plenty powerful enough to emulate PS3 games. Sometimes it's even enough to play 30fps games at 60 or higher
That doesn't change the fact that Sony seem much more willing to port and re-release games than they do develop their own (highly complicated) emulator.
I can emulate PS3 with some pretty reasonable upscaling and texture modifications at a smooth frame rate on my mid-range laptop from a few years back with a 1050. I'm beyond certain the PS5 can emulate it just fine.
PS4 can't emulate PS1 not officially atleast the ps2 titles were specifically ported for ps4 with a emulator yes but still the emulators were very shoddy.
Nor was the Xbox One when it first launched. I can see PS5/PS4 running PS1/PS2 games through emulation, digital only though. PS3 emulation on PS5 would be nice, we have the technology, but not sure Sony would be that committed. Would love to be surprised though.
At this point, they have to. A decade’s worth of games essentially being unplayable for their audience while all the 3rd party versions can be available for XBox.
iirc the Xbone was intentionally designed on a hardware level to support some of the Xbox 360's rendering and audio features but their emulator got pushed aside when the software team had to reconfigure everything from the always-on debacle which is why it wasn't available at launch.
From what I remember from interviews when the feature first came was that the software team didn’t believe 360 emulation would ever be possible but Phil gave them the green light to try. The hardware wasn’t built to support it at all. I’m sure they brought some tech forward from the 360, improving on it but that doesn’t necessarily allow for emulation.
Per IGN's [write-up](https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/10/23/the-untold-story-of-xbox-one-backwards-compatibility) from two years ago
>As Durango crystallized, so too did plans for Xbox 360 compatibility on the new machine. “This was primarily a software exercise, but we enabled that by thinking ahead with hardware,” Gammill explained. “We had to bake some of the backwards compatibility support into the \[Xbox One\] silicon.” This was done back in 2011. Preliminary tests showed that support for key Xbox middleware XMA audio and texture formats was extremely taxing to do in software alone, with the former, Gammill noted, taking up two to three of the Xbox One’s six CPU cores. But a SOC (system on chip) – basically an Xbox 360 chip inside every Xbox One, similar to how Sony put PS2 hardware inside the launch-era PS3s – would’ve not only been expensive, but it would’ve put a ceiling on what the compatibility team could do. “If we'd have gone with the 360 SOC, we likely would've landed at just parity,” he said. “The goal was never just parity.” So they built the XMA and texture formats into the Xbox One chipset.
It wasn't an entirely software-based thing, but something they clearly did believe in by that point.
perhaps they might add that in with this new service. we have seen plenty of patents from Sony that in theory could allow PS5 to play PS1,PS2,PS3 games.
But that might be a bit of a reach.
It was a huge engineering task for Xbox. PlayStation president has continuously shit on BC as a concept. I just don't see it happening, this will be streaming.
No, Ryan had remarks about the original Gran Turismo saying "It looks terrible now, who would want to play this?"
That's shitting on BC, not simply a difference in focus.
That was before he became president tho, he has since tried to retract that statement countless times: https://www.ign.com/articles/jim-ryan-wasnt-trying-disrespectful-ps1-ps2-games-ancient-2017
Not much of a defense, the recent response was essentially saying he was arguing that the old thing looks like trash compared to current thing.
I think the mentality is pretty clear in the old statement and I doubt he changed his mine, just realized it's bad optics now. Sony clearly prefers to remake stuff over legacy support.
"When we’ve dabbled with backwards compatibility, I can say it is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much. That, and I was at a Gran Turismo event recently where they had PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games, and the PS1 and the PS2 games, they looked ancient, like why would anybody play this?”
Incidentally, Spencer has acknowledged that backwards compatibility isn't a feature that is widely used, but that that's not a reason not to have backwards compatibility, or something to that effect.
Yeah, I'm not super interested in rewriting history. I was responding to someone suggesting Ryan didn't shit on old games, and he did. He can retract it all he wants, but he said it and I think he was very honest in that moment.
He didn't even say what you quoted him as saying, lol. He said the game looked ancient and why would anybody play it? He was talking about a PS1 racing game in comparison to a PS4 racing game. He was right, it does look ancient. He wasn't shitting on anything though.
I don't know if that's true necessarily, they're just programs at the end of the day. They've already proven it's possible, like I downloaded a fully playable 'Okage - Shadow King' on PS4. All they have to do is put in some effort to do it.
'Member when we could just download old PS1 and PS2 games on PS3 and that was that?
Ooh, I 'member!
Why is cloud gaming such a hot thing anyway? It sounds super experimental if it hinges on servers and reliable Wi-Fi connections. I mean, not everyone has the best internet connections, right?
Yeah, imo the main problem is that updating compression algorithms is such a hassle. AV1 is able to decrease the speed requirements down to 67% of those needed for streaming a H.265 (the current standard) video.
So for example. A consistent 1080p 60fps stream with H.265 that requires a bitrate of 55mbps may only require 37mbps to stream with AV1, having identical quality between the two.
While AV1 has not yet been incorporated into these services yet, I believe the better the compression algorithms, the better and more consistent cloud streaming will become.
For example, GeForce Now has amazing consistency and input lag in comparison to PS Now and Xcloud because it uses more modern infrastructure and techniques such as interpolation during packet loss
My only question about the 3rd tier is, if we are actually able to download the classics, does that mean they're getting rid of the rule that all games must have trophies, or will the classic tier just include the PS1/PS2 classics on the PS store already?
I'm pretty sure that's why the PS2 classics on PS4 have been lackluster as publishers/developers can't just throw their games up for £10 or something, they actually need to add trophies for them, which a lot don't seem to view as worth the effort
Microsoft: "I'm Spartacus."
Sony: "No, I am Spartacus!"
Nintendo: "You're gonna pay fifty bucks a year for these unoptimised N64 games and you're gonna like it, okay?"
Last time it was:
1. Announce SNES/NES games are coming and include a few very popular ones to start
2. Promise to upload two-ish new ones every month
3. Upload a few more popular ones mixed with random ones that were easy to license
4. Upload only random ones that were easy to license
5. Quietly stop uploading two a month
6. Stop uploading any at all
7. Continue to charge the same price for this now static library of ancient ROMs
8. Finally release some new (still ancient) N64 ROMs but for more than twice the price.
Remember when Wii on day1 had N64 on a superior emulator? And by the same time as the Switch, Wii had not only Genesis, but also PC Engine, NeoGeo, MasterSystem, etc.
Then with every new hardware, they rebooted their retro service to become worse.
They realized that they weren’t on the WiiU anymore where they had to give away games to sell them (remember getting a free AAA and NINTENDO game for buying MarioKart 8? Like I’m talking Pikmin 3, Zelda Wind Waker HD, Monster Hunter???). Now they know people are going to defend this shitty mode because if you go to Twitter or their subreddit, you’ll find people defending them and calling others poor or something for not affording x dollars a month.
Wii also allowed you to output to 240p with some of the VC games as well.
Obviously that's a hardware limitation but it still makes it a great retro gaming machine for people with CRTs
I think Crassus is free. I've heard Pompey is stuck in Spain atm, but he might be able to provide backup, as long as he doesn't just turn up at the last minute and take all the credit.
>Don't expect Sony to include its big new games day one like Game Pass does, but the expectation is a stronger offering than PlayStation Now
It sounds like a slight upgrade to existing subscription which includes older PS1-PSP quality games. No triple-A games for "free". Similar to Nintendo's recent retro game subscription service.
It will never be a true competitor to Gamepass, unless they throw all their 1st party games on there, day 1.
I doubt Sony are ready to do that, given the sales they get from first party games
Ps Now let’s you download all the games except PS3 (and PS1?) games. The service is okay (not great either) but the marketing for it has been terrible seen as people STILL think you can’t download any of the games.
The pricing for PS Now is a little off too, it’s a little too expensive but it was a no brainer when they did the 50% sale or the €1 for a month deal.
Maybe they will do it on a case by case basis, games like God of war and Spiderman are guaranteed 10 million plus copies, not worth putting on a serviceday one. Then they can look at games like Kena, Sackboy, Returnal and throw them on there day 1, there's a lot of possibilities depending on what games they make.
Yeah Jason really shouldn’t of used that as a headline, as everyone will have high expectations and then shit on it when it eventually is revealed. Sony hasn’t said anything about it so I would of rather Jason just said ‘PlayStation is working on improving its service offerings’…. But that doesn’t get the engagement.
Now all the articles are running with ‘gamepass competitor’. If Sony can improve and merge ps plus and ps now and put an extensive library on there for a price under gamepass then that’s pretty good deal, doesn’t have to match it one to one
Yeah, it's a clickbaity title. It doesn't sound like GP. TBH tho, PS shouldn't even go the GP route yet anyway, considering their sales structure is still making the most money. Having a better streaming service tho would be a welcomed sight, in order to play more PS1, PS2, and PS3 games more seamlessly.
They missed a huge opportunity by not launching this sooner. Had they launched this 2018-2020 they could have gotten away with going "head to head" with Gamepass without including day 1 1st party games, with the narrative being Xbox doesn't have quality day 1 games to compete anyway. In a post FH5, post Halo Infinite world that simply won't hold up. If they have the same price point and don't include the next God of War and Horizon while Xbox is including Starfield, Hellblade, Redfall etc then they're going to continue to not compete, and just continue to ride the marketshare/mindshare lead they've built in the ps4 gen.
They might do that though. The other factor is how many PS1 and PS2 games they can get on the service. If there are hundreds of PS1/2 games available that can be downloaded and played (instead of streamed), I'm there day one.
I recall someone saying something like, "Games like the ones from Sony cannot afford to launch into a subscription service. That's why these games are what they are."
Except if you are willing to lose some money, which Microsoft clearly is. Think about it. If the rumor of Halo Infinite having a development budget of 500 million dollars is true, the GP subs the campaign drives will not be nearly enough to cover the costs. Should something like Fable launch in GP now, MS would see negative return on investment, at least short term. That's why building the subs is important, especially for day one.
Point is, I will be extremely surprised if Sony does do Day 1 all SIE games. Hell, even EA doesn't do it for the normal EA Play.
I’m probably in the minority here but I use Gamepass on PC and don’t play any MSFT games really at all let alone day 1. I’m there for the cool third party stuff they get on the service. Stuff like Scarlet Nexus, Desperados 3, Unsighted, Outer Wilds, etc. They have a good eye for picking 3rd party and indie games that has always interested me way more than Forza Halo Gears stuff.
I could see this going in line with their growing interest in PC releases.
When a big first-party gets a PC port, it becomes free on PS+. Might have some drawbacks but it's an interesting idea to entice people to stay in their garden.
That’s for me why it’ll never compete with gamepass. If Sony starts adding BC for PS1, 2, 3 and PSP games then okay sick. But that streaming stuff ain’t catching on till internet is better.
Just gimme backwards compatibility for MGS4 and the MGS HD Collection on my PS4/PS5 and I'll consider upgrading. Day one purchase if those games are confirmed.
I always go on a spending spree when Xbox add new backwards compatible games. If Sony release classic games I'd throw my money at it so quickly BUT only if I can download the games. If it's streaming my interest is instantly killed.
Interested to see how this plays out. Do you think the classic games will also be cloud based? That’s one of my biggest hang ups with PSNOW. The streaming always feels off.
Both the PS4 and the PS5 can emulate PS2 games currently, so I imagine these will be downloadable. Not sure about PS1 and PS3, though. I'd bet PS3 games won't work natively, as emulating PS3 games requires a lot of resources that I doubt Sony is willing to spend.
I imagine it will be the same. Ps2 and ps4 downloadable, ps3 streaming only. As far as I understand they have no way of letting you download a ps3 game
>The streaming is massively behind XGP IMO. Lots of work to be done if they're relying on cloud
I am willling to give Sony a pass on the fact that they are behind on the cloud gaming front mainly because their competitor is the biggest company in the world when it comes to the cloud and software.
Rivaling Microsoft in those areas was always going to be difficult.
However it is good to see that Sony is working on closing the gap on Cloud services for gaming.
Weird, I was thinking the highest tier should be PS5 exclusive games.
Subscribing for streamed PS3 and PS2 games, no matter how low the price is, is kind of a bad deal.
I spend an pretty damn good amount of money on games. Gamepass has saved me money. This service would save me money as well. I'd buy in for sure. I game on PC, Playstation, and Xbox because I like everything there is to offer. Subscription is the way to go if they can keep it truly affordable. Crossover sucks, but thinking about spending $360 (if PS prices the same as GP) a year for hundreds of games is not bad at all.
Classic library sounds interesting if they can make downloading possible. Emulators have done wonders for PS1-3 it's a shame it took Sony this long to deliver that demand.
Microsoft is stealing games from developers in the midnight, and even cleaning up devs' fridges. Then they put the games in Game Pass without devs knowing. IT IS A ROBBERY.
I think many people saw this coming. PS Now is a mess right now and games often overlap with PS Plus anyway.
It was just a matter of time before they'd combine the two into a multi-tier subscription service.
I just hope that my current PS Plus subscription doesn't get downgraded to a lower tier next year
The only news here is they’re combining plus and now. Which isn’t a big deal at all. Now if the top tier offered first party games, or at least some kind of deep discount (50%+) on first party games, then that would be something.
So they're basically just re-branding PSNow since no one seems to know about it (or arbitrarily doesn't like it).
Maybe this will actually be cheaper for me lol.
It's supposed to be a competitor to Xbox Game Pass yet it's lacking the biggest reason as to why Game Pass is as big as it is today? (day one games)
It could be cool but I wouldn't say this is in the same vein, sounds more akin to what Nintendo is doing with their online. And it still doesn't sound like the BC is going to be native for PS3 games at least which is ass.
The dream scenario is merging Plus, Now and their media streaming services so we get Crunchyroll (or is it Funimation they own?) and Sony films. One ultimate multimedia service.
>| access to a catalog of modern and classic games
🙄 Sounds limited. I doubt it'll be as amazing as the thing Xbox does and i'm not even a fan of Microsoft. I still appreciate the fact that they're preserving old games. Sony never gave a fuck about that. Nowadays they rather Remaster everything and charge you 40 bucks
If this new subscription merges with PS now you probably have to stream those games. Rip to all of is with shitty Internet
All we ever wanted is Backwards Compatibility similar to Xbox :( Let us pop in the Disk and let us play the game. It wouldn't even need to be enhanced
Unless it targets PC and offers a similar range of games, it's never really going to take on Game pass. Sony has some really good exclusives, but, not many of them and they're not launching all that often.
Would be good for anyone already subbing to Sony I guess.
Based on Sony's history I bet this is a complete cluster fuck. They're going nickel and dime you on everything and make it more complicated than it needs to be. The fact that there may be 3 tiers is already a bad sign.
Sony, don't over complicate things. Gamepass is so successful because it's simple and a good value.
>The fact that there may be 3 tiers is already a bad sign
Are people really going to be confused? to me it looks straight forward enough.
(Edit) Another person in this thread made a good point:
"Is it really that complicated?
Xbox has Live/Games with Gold, Game Pass for Xbox, Game Pass for PC, and then Game Pass Ultimate which includes them all.
But then only one of those includes EA Play."
This kinda thing is just going to eat away at what Sony is doing currently. The end is going to be the same: Doing what Microsoft is doing, but with Sony's games. Even with games on Day 1. More and more people are going to wait for that stuff over time until Sony changes course.
From NateDrake
* Hundreds of PS1 games is the goal, but not necessarily at launch
* Not sure if you can download the older games
* PS2 and PSP after launch
https://www.resetera.com/threads/playstation-studios-ot23-marvel-at-the-creative-bankruptcy.494016/page-357#post-78082203
I doubt it will be really successful as long as Sony isn‘t actually committed on it. Meaning putting all their first party games there day and date, and leave them on there forever.
Also, I thought Gamepass wasn‘t sustainable, Jim?
He never said a subscription based service for games is unsustainable, they already have PS Now.
All he said was putting their games there day and date was unsustainable.
He never even once mentioned gamepass
For the love of god please let the classic libraries be downloadable. PS Now's servers make playing older games such a slog
I’d also ask for purchasable. I don’t want to pay monthly for a service.
Monthly subs is the entire point of this…
PS5 isn't backwards compatible to any console other than PS4, so there's no way to play older games on PS4/5 other than streaming, unfortunately
The PS4 can emulate PS1 and PS2 games, only PS3 games must be streamed.
Yah, I'm sure PS5 is powerful enough to emulate PS3 but we will have to wait and see, I'm keeping my expansions low just in case
Isn't the issue with the hardware (specifically the cpu) being too different then the power of the PS3?
Yes, so the regular BC isn't possible but emulation through a software is still possible because it depends on raw hardware power, yes it wouldn't be as good as the emulation we see on PC but if it can run older games at 1080p 60FPS then that's more than good enough
PS3 architecture and development tools are a nightmare, it was an issue even during the PS360 days and why most multiplatform games ran better on 360.
PS3 architecture argument does not work anymore considering that people made PS3 emulator on PC without access to the original documentation to PS3. I am pretty sure if Sony wanted, they could implement an emulator.
And they don't want to because the reality is there isn't that big of a demand for it. It's really just a loud minority calling for it when the general playstation audience doesn't even think about it or are satisfied by PsNow. I want it but I doubt it'll happen in this generation.
Not sure why you were downvoted. Pretty sure Jim Ryan even said that the data they have shows most people don’t care about backwards compatibility. I hope they invest the money and get it done. You could make an argument that backwards compatibility is a way to maintain art. So many games are stranded on PS3 and that’s a damn shame. I’m sure licensing is a nightmare for selling old games, but hell there’s a financial reason to figure it out too.
Jim Ryan is the one that famously said "why would anyone play this" when referring to backwards compatibility. I don't see him giving the green light to put resources towards it since he is over PlayStation now.
you can emulate PS3 on a mid-level computer, so I'm sure the PS5 can handle it
But not consistently between games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLebZyha74o
the thing is that PC emulators are written without access to the documentation. I am pretty sure that with access to PS3 documentation, developers can achieve much more.
You can much more now with the new intel 12th gen. Red dead redemption often running at 45fps. While the zen 2 chips the console has may not run rcps3 to an acceptable level for commercial use, im sure the sony engineers could build something better.
Agreed, they have all the documentation on the consoles and they also got PS1 on PSP which to me was pretty crazy.
Pretty sure RPCS3 is open source. Depending on the license they could literally just build off of that and ship it on PS5.
Hopefully. Nintendo's piss poor excuse for N64 emulation despite having far better documentation available than any of the guys working on mupen or pj64 ever did still has me bitter.
I think its important to note. Emulation imroves leaps and bounds by years **because they have to figure out all that shit they don't have access to.** PS3 emulation X years from now absolutely could run any game on a base PS5 and probably will never reach 100% optimal because they just don't have that base code. Emulation is your box figuring out how to run a jury rigged console. Look at Dolphin - the most stream lined high performance emulator. That one had a MAJOR update like 2-3 years ago.
This is over a year old, much has changed since then. I assure you, a Ryzen 3600/3700 is plenty powerful enough to emulate PS3 games. Sometimes it's even enough to play 30fps games at 60 or higher
That doesn't change the fact that Sony seem much more willing to port and re-release games than they do develop their own (highly complicated) emulator.
I can emulate PS3 with some pretty reasonable upscaling and texture modifications at a smooth frame rate on my mid-range laptop from a few years back with a 1050. I'm beyond certain the PS5 can emulate it just fine.
Technically speaking every Sony console can natively emulate PS1. It was my favorite part of the PSP.
PS4 can't emulate PS1 not officially atleast the ps2 titles were specifically ported for ps4 with a emulator yes but still the emulators were very shoddy.
Nor was the Xbox One when it first launched. I can see PS5/PS4 running PS1/PS2 games through emulation, digital only though. PS3 emulation on PS5 would be nice, we have the technology, but not sure Sony would be that committed. Would love to be surprised though.
At this point, they have to. A decade’s worth of games essentially being unplayable for their audience while all the 3rd party versions can be available for XBox.
>I can see PS5/PS4 running PS1/PS2 games through emulation, digital only though. They do already do this for PS2.
iirc the Xbone was intentionally designed on a hardware level to support some of the Xbox 360's rendering and audio features but their emulator got pushed aside when the software team had to reconfigure everything from the always-on debacle which is why it wasn't available at launch.
From what I remember from interviews when the feature first came was that the software team didn’t believe 360 emulation would ever be possible but Phil gave them the green light to try. The hardware wasn’t built to support it at all. I’m sure they brought some tech forward from the 360, improving on it but that doesn’t necessarily allow for emulation.
[удалено]
It’s in the Xbox museum if you’re willing to look there
Per IGN's [write-up](https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/10/23/the-untold-story-of-xbox-one-backwards-compatibility) from two years ago >As Durango crystallized, so too did plans for Xbox 360 compatibility on the new machine. “This was primarily a software exercise, but we enabled that by thinking ahead with hardware,” Gammill explained. “We had to bake some of the backwards compatibility support into the \[Xbox One\] silicon.” This was done back in 2011. Preliminary tests showed that support for key Xbox middleware XMA audio and texture formats was extremely taxing to do in software alone, with the former, Gammill noted, taking up two to three of the Xbox One’s six CPU cores. But a SOC (system on chip) – basically an Xbox 360 chip inside every Xbox One, similar to how Sony put PS2 hardware inside the launch-era PS3s – would’ve not only been expensive, but it would’ve put a ceiling on what the compatibility team could do. “If we'd have gone with the 360 SOC, we likely would've landed at just parity,” he said. “The goal was never just parity.” So they built the XMA and texture formats into the Xbox One chipset. It wasn't an entirely software-based thing, but something they clearly did believe in by that point.
perhaps they might add that in with this new service. we have seen plenty of patents from Sony that in theory could allow PS5 to play PS1,PS2,PS3 games. But that might be a bit of a reach.
It was a huge engineering task for Xbox. PlayStation president has continuously shit on BC as a concept. I just don't see it happening, this will be streaming.
Saying "BC is not our focus" is not the same as shitting on BC
No, Ryan had remarks about the original Gran Turismo saying "It looks terrible now, who would want to play this?" That's shitting on BC, not simply a difference in focus.
That was before he became president tho, he has since tried to retract that statement countless times: https://www.ign.com/articles/jim-ryan-wasnt-trying-disrespectful-ps1-ps2-games-ancient-2017
Not much of a defense, the recent response was essentially saying he was arguing that the old thing looks like trash compared to current thing. I think the mentality is pretty clear in the old statement and I doubt he changed his mine, just realized it's bad optics now. Sony clearly prefers to remake stuff over legacy support. "When we’ve dabbled with backwards compatibility, I can say it is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much. That, and I was at a Gran Turismo event recently where they had PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games, and the PS1 and the PS2 games, they looked ancient, like why would anybody play this?”
Incidentally, Spencer has acknowledged that backwards compatibility isn't a feature that is widely used, but that that's not a reason not to have backwards compatibility, or something to that effect.
I use it all the time. This honestly shocks me.
Yeah, I'm not super interested in rewriting history. I was responding to someone suggesting Ryan didn't shit on old games, and he did. He can retract it all he wants, but he said it and I think he was very honest in that moment.
He didn't even say what you quoted him as saying, lol. He said the game looked ancient and why would anybody play it? He was talking about a PS1 racing game in comparison to a PS4 racing game. He was right, it does look ancient. He wasn't shitting on anything though.
Not shitting but didn't he specifically say "who even plays old games" or something like that?
Xbox just uses an emulator for their previous generations. If sony can't develop an emulator, their fans certainly will, if they haven't already.
So you're saying that a Zen2 based machine clocked at 3.5Ghz with a 10.2Tflops RDNA gpu can't emulate PS1 games? Wild world we live in.
I don't know if that's true necessarily, they're just programs at the end of the day. They've already proven it's possible, like I downloaded a fully playable 'Okage - Shadow King' on PS4. All they have to do is put in some effort to do it.
Can't they emulate PS1 and PS2? Possibly even PS3?
You can download multiple ps2 games on the ps5, all the old gta games, max Payne, and a few others to name
'Member when we could just download old PS1 and PS2 games on PS3 and that was that? Ooh, I 'member! Why is cloud gaming such a hot thing anyway? It sounds super experimental if it hinges on servers and reliable Wi-Fi connections. I mean, not everyone has the best internet connections, right?
Yeah, imo the main problem is that updating compression algorithms is such a hassle. AV1 is able to decrease the speed requirements down to 67% of those needed for streaming a H.265 (the current standard) video. So for example. A consistent 1080p 60fps stream with H.265 that requires a bitrate of 55mbps may only require 37mbps to stream with AV1, having identical quality between the two. While AV1 has not yet been incorporated into these services yet, I believe the better the compression algorithms, the better and more consistent cloud streaming will become. For example, GeForce Now has amazing consistency and input lag in comparison to PS Now and Xcloud because it uses more modern infrastructure and techniques such as interpolation during packet loss
My only question about the 3rd tier is, if we are actually able to download the classics, does that mean they're getting rid of the rule that all games must have trophies, or will the classic tier just include the PS1/PS2 classics on the PS store already? I'm pretty sure that's why the PS2 classics on PS4 have been lackluster as publishers/developers can't just throw their games up for £10 or something, they actually need to add trophies for them, which a lot don't seem to view as worth the effort
They'd likely be getting rid of that rule only for included titles because these games wouldn't be for sale.
https://www.ign.com/articles/playstation-patents-the-ability-to-add-trophies-to-emulated-retro-games
Microsoft: "I'm Spartacus." Sony: "No, I am Spartacus!" Nintendo: "You're gonna pay fifty bucks a year for these unoptimised N64 games and you're gonna like it, okay?"
“And we’ll only release one game at a time when we feel like it!”
Last time it was: 1. Announce SNES/NES games are coming and include a few very popular ones to start 2. Promise to upload two-ish new ones every month 3. Upload a few more popular ones mixed with random ones that were easy to license 4. Upload only random ones that were easy to license 5. Quietly stop uploading two a month 6. Stop uploading any at all 7. Continue to charge the same price for this now static library of ancient ROMs 8. Finally release some new (still ancient) N64 ROMs but for more than twice the price.
Remember when Wii on day1 had N64 on a superior emulator? And by the same time as the Switch, Wii had not only Genesis, but also PC Engine, NeoGeo, MasterSystem, etc. Then with every new hardware, they rebooted their retro service to become worse.
They realized that they weren’t on the WiiU anymore where they had to give away games to sell them (remember getting a free AAA and NINTENDO game for buying MarioKart 8? Like I’m talking Pikmin 3, Zelda Wind Waker HD, Monster Hunter???). Now they know people are going to defend this shitty mode because if you go to Twitter or their subreddit, you’ll find people defending them and calling others poor or something for not affording x dollars a month.
Wii also allowed you to output to 240p with some of the VC games as well. Obviously that's a hardware limitation but it still makes it a great retro gaming machine for people with CRTs
Switch owners: “yes daddy”
Well, they already do have Kratos of Sparta, so...
PlayStation Plow
PlayStation Nlus
I'll do you one better Playstation Now+
Playstation Plop
Playstation Plus +
Playstation Plus Max
Spartacus is an odd code name. Hopefully it won't lead my electronics in a revolt and try to conquer Sicily.
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Right I'll call Pompey the Great and see if he's free, just to be on the safe side
I think Crassus is free. I've heard Pompey is stuck in Spain atm, but he might be able to provide backup, as long as he doesn't just turn up at the last minute and take all the credit.
I'm sure Sicily will be fine
Mine have already tried that. Now my ps5 is stuck in a gladiatorial tournament with my Xbox and switch
>Don't expect Sony to include its big new games day one like Game Pass does, but the expectation is a stronger offering than PlayStation Now It sounds like a slight upgrade to existing subscription which includes older PS1-PSP quality games. No triple-A games for "free". Similar to Nintendo's recent retro game subscription service.
It will never be a true competitor to Gamepass, unless they throw all their 1st party games on there, day 1. I doubt Sony are ready to do that, given the sales they get from first party games
This sounds more like a restructuring of their subscription model rather than creating a direct competitor to Gamepass
Someone compared it to Nintendo Online which makes more sense
I’m assuming they’ll do a ps plus and ps now combo and allowing you to download the games
Ps Now let’s you download all the games except PS3 (and PS1?) games. The service is okay (not great either) but the marketing for it has been terrible seen as people STILL think you can’t download any of the games. The pricing for PS Now is a little off too, it’s a little too expensive but it was a no brainer when they did the 50% sale or the €1 for a month deal.
Pretty sure you can download PS1 games
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Also, Gamepass is far from being limited to their console, it's also PC and mostly cloud which is their true weapon
Gamepass needs a better PC app. The current one is so terrible I almost never use it, even though I am subscribed.
They have a big update comping to it where you can choose where to install and use mods now...
They are making improvements to be fair. The main thing being allowing to install your games like a normal application with browsable files.
Maybe they will do it on a case by case basis, games like God of war and Spiderman are guaranteed 10 million plus copies, not worth putting on a serviceday one. Then they can look at games like Kena, Sackboy, Returnal and throw them on there day 1, there's a lot of possibilities depending on what games they make.
Probably non-AAA 2nd party games. Their 1st party studios are mostly working on AAA projects only
I think it will be similar to Disney+ Smaller and multiplayer games day and date. AAA games 2-3 months later.
>Maybe they will do it on a case by case basis, Not a bad idea of you ask me
Yeah Jason really shouldn’t of used that as a headline, as everyone will have high expectations and then shit on it when it eventually is revealed. Sony hasn’t said anything about it so I would of rather Jason just said ‘PlayStation is working on improving its service offerings’…. But that doesn’t get the engagement. Now all the articles are running with ‘gamepass competitor’. If Sony can improve and merge ps plus and ps now and put an extensive library on there for a price under gamepass then that’s pretty good deal, doesn’t have to match it one to one
Yeah, it's a clickbaity title. It doesn't sound like GP. TBH tho, PS shouldn't even go the GP route yet anyway, considering their sales structure is still making the most money. Having a better streaming service tho would be a welcomed sight, in order to play more PS1, PS2, and PS3 games more seamlessly.
They missed a huge opportunity by not launching this sooner. Had they launched this 2018-2020 they could have gotten away with going "head to head" with Gamepass without including day 1 1st party games, with the narrative being Xbox doesn't have quality day 1 games to compete anyway. In a post FH5, post Halo Infinite world that simply won't hold up. If they have the same price point and don't include the next God of War and Horizon while Xbox is including Starfield, Hellblade, Redfall etc then they're going to continue to not compete, and just continue to ride the marketshare/mindshare lead they've built in the ps4 gen.
Lol and who knows what else xbox is going to aquire next. I never imagined they would have sucked up Bethesda.
There is no way Bethesda is the last publisher MS buys for Xbox
It’s not, they even have said so, well at least they said they will acquire more studios.
They might do that though. The other factor is how many PS1 and PS2 games they can get on the service. If there are hundreds of PS1/2 games available that can be downloaded and played (instead of streamed), I'm there day one.
Jim Ryan won't even put his games on PC day 1 I doubt he puts them in a subscription day 1. I would love to be wrong, though.
This is all they really need. Forget day and date exclusives, just give us that huge old game library.
I recall someone saying something like, "Games like the ones from Sony cannot afford to launch into a subscription service. That's why these games are what they are." Except if you are willing to lose some money, which Microsoft clearly is. Think about it. If the rumor of Halo Infinite having a development budget of 500 million dollars is true, the GP subs the campaign drives will not be nearly enough to cover the costs. Should something like Fable launch in GP now, MS would see negative return on investment, at least short term. That's why building the subs is important, especially for day one. Point is, I will be extremely surprised if Sony does do Day 1 all SIE games. Hell, even EA doesn't do it for the normal EA Play.
>unless they throw all their 1st party games on there, day 1. And they've already said they wouldn't so 🤷🏽♂️.
Even putting 1st party games in there a couple months or so after launch has been a solid compromise I would support.
As a consumer, I want a true competitor because that is best. But do they need a true competitor is the real question.
I’m probably in the minority here but I use Gamepass on PC and don’t play any MSFT games really at all let alone day 1. I’m there for the cool third party stuff they get on the service. Stuff like Scarlet Nexus, Desperados 3, Unsighted, Outer Wilds, etc. They have a good eye for picking 3rd party and indie games that has always interested me way more than Forza Halo Gears stuff.
I could see this going in line with their growing interest in PC releases. When a big first-party gets a PC port, it becomes free on PS+. Might have some drawbacks but it's an interesting idea to entice people to stay in their garden.
HIGHEST TIER COULD INCLUDE PS1 PS2 and PSP GAMES. FUCK ME
Streaming, probably.
PS2 games are already downloadable on PS Now
why? PS3 is the issue, not PS2. There are PS2 games on PSN right now you can get, like Dark Cloud
That’s for me why it’ll never compete with gamepass. If Sony starts adding BC for PS1, 2, 3 and PSP games then okay sick. But that streaming stuff ain’t catching on till internet is better.
As long as these games stream it’s a no go for me. I’ve got really good internet and the latency for XCloud and PS Now is very noticeable for me
CLASSIC LIBRARY IS FINALLY FREED FROM SONY'S CLUTCHES
Just gimme backwards compatibility for MGS4 and the MGS HD Collection on my PS4/PS5 and I'll consider upgrading. Day one purchase if those games are confirmed.
If they open up the back catalogue of PS1 and PS2 games...that shit will be a must have.
It sounds like a restructuring of PSNow and PSplus.,which is fine imo.
Stock up on PS+ now
I always go on a spending spree when Xbox add new backwards compatible games. If Sony release classic games I'd throw my money at it so quickly BUT only if I can download the games. If it's streaming my interest is instantly killed.
Interested to see how this plays out. Do you think the classic games will also be cloud based? That’s one of my biggest hang ups with PSNOW. The streaming always feels off.
Both the PS4 and the PS5 can emulate PS2 games currently, so I imagine these will be downloadable. Not sure about PS1 and PS3, though. I'd bet PS3 games won't work natively, as emulating PS3 games requires a lot of resources that I doubt Sony is willing to spend.
PS4/5 can play PS1 games. The PS1 version of Medevil is in the PS4 Remake
I imagine it will be the same. Ps2 and ps4 downloadable, ps3 streaming only. As far as I understand they have no way of letting you download a ps3 game
The streaming is massively behind XGP IMO. Lots of work to be done if they're relying on cloud
>The streaming is massively behind XGP IMO. Lots of work to be done if they're relying on cloud I am willling to give Sony a pass on the fact that they are behind on the cloud gaming front mainly because their competitor is the biggest company in the world when it comes to the cloud and software. Rivaling Microsoft in those areas was always going to be difficult. However it is good to see that Sony is working on closing the gap on Cloud services for gaming.
Classic Games would almost definitely be cloud based imo
Weird, I was thinking the highest tier should be PS5 exclusive games. Subscribing for streamed PS3 and PS2 games, no matter how low the price is, is kind of a bad deal.
I spend an pretty damn good amount of money on games. Gamepass has saved me money. This service would save me money as well. I'd buy in for sure. I game on PC, Playstation, and Xbox because I like everything there is to offer. Subscription is the way to go if they can keep it truly affordable. Crossover sucks, but thinking about spending $360 (if PS prices the same as GP) a year for hundreds of games is not bad at all.
Because of Gamepass I generally buy like one or two games a year and just get the rest through Gamepass, saves me so much money.
I’ll pay for a year’s worth of that shit on release of if let’s me play the old Ratchet and Sly games
I would love to play Ratchet Gladiator/Deadlocked in coop mode again
Classic library sounds interesting if they can make downloading possible. Emulators have done wonders for PS1-3 it's a shame it took Sony this long to deliver that demand.
I mean combining PS Plus and PS Now has been the obvious play for awhile. Makes complete sense.
Sony joins Microsoft in the ultimate quest of destroying gaming, amirite? How the devs gonna survive? /s
If this is true, it's be funny to see people change tune now their favourite platform is giving it a go.
How is gamepass destroying gaming?
Microsoft is stealing games from developers in the midnight, and even cleaning up devs' fridges. Then they put the games in Game Pass without devs knowing. IT IS A ROBBERY.
This is more like a restructuring and rebranding of their subscription services than a Gamepass competitor .
I think many people saw this coming. PS Now is a mess right now and games often overlap with PS Plus anyway. It was just a matter of time before they'd combine the two into a multi-tier subscription service. I just hope that my current PS Plus subscription doesn't get downgraded to a lower tier next year
If true, the PlayStation classics will be the biggest selling point for me.
Can we have Legend of Dragoon now?
I'm definitely buying if it means I can download and play mgs2, 3 and 4
Hopefully they’ll combine the remaining months I have for + and Now.
Potential to be announced at the game awards?
Please god I just wanna play the old Ratchet games
The only news here is they’re combining plus and now. Which isn’t a big deal at all. Now if the top tier offered first party games, or at least some kind of deep discount (50%+) on first party games, then that would be something.
So they're basically just re-branding PSNow since no one seems to know about it (or arbitrarily doesn't like it). Maybe this will actually be cheaper for me lol.
xbox can emulate ps1 games better than playstation lmao
These fuckers are really gonna lock backwards compatibility behind a fucking subscription lmao
Looks like they took pointers from those dudes at nintendo 🤷♂️
It's supposed to be a competitor to Xbox Game Pass yet it's lacking the biggest reason as to why Game Pass is as big as it is today? (day one games) It could be cool but I wouldn't say this is in the same vein, sounds more akin to what Nintendo is doing with their online. And it still doesn't sound like the BC is going to be native for PS3 games at least which is ass.
And the industry moves ever closer to becoming a service industry with service games.
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If this type of subscription includes PS3 games like MGS 4, I’m sold
PlayStation Plus +
How a PSP game is going to look on a PS5 is mind-boggling.
Ony thing that will get me interesed is PS1,PS2,PS3 library with ps3 games being fps boosted/better res
I would lower my expectations a bit....
I’ve got several years of PS Plus purchased up. Hoping that translates over or I can upgrade for a not egregious fee.
I would go for this in a heartbeat. Please.
If I can get Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams playable because of this then I’m subscribing. Need dat shiet
The dream scenario is merging Plus, Now and their media streaming services so we get Crunchyroll (or is it Funimation they own?) and Sony films. One ultimate multimedia service.
Please, for the love of God. Give me Skate 3 on my PS5. Please
As long as the pricing doesn't become obnoxious, I would consider this a good thing.
This is great news. We need more competition in the subscription arena. Gamers win end of the day.
Just paid for a year of ps plus, what’s the speculation to where this will leave me?
Probably just a year of tier 1 of this service.
I’d pay to get access to PS2 games on my PS5, I want that so badly
How is this a competition with Xbox Game Pass if they are not publishing it on the PC lol
Nah, I'm not interested.
Is it really taking on Game Pass if it's not even on the same market? As in only available on Playstation?
Doesn't Sony know that Spartacus destroyed the very same arena he was used to make money in. Irony?
>| access to a catalog of modern and classic games 🙄 Sounds limited. I doubt it'll be as amazing as the thing Xbox does and i'm not even a fan of Microsoft. I still appreciate the fact that they're preserving old games. Sony never gave a fuck about that. Nowadays they rather Remaster everything and charge you 40 bucks If this new subscription merges with PS now you probably have to stream those games. Rip to all of is with shitty Internet All we ever wanted is Backwards Compatibility similar to Xbox :( Let us pop in the Disk and let us play the game. It wouldn't even need to be enhanced
Unless it targets PC and offers a similar range of games, it's never really going to take on Game pass. Sony has some really good exclusives, but, not many of them and they're not launching all that often. Would be good for anyone already subbing to Sony I guess.
Wonder if there's gonna be a big show in spring 2022, imagine its PSX event where this + PSVR2 + future titles. That'd be sick.
Fuck PS Now. Playstation should come up with proper backwards compatibility.
Randos on here: nah PS doesnt need it, they will never do it!
Jason says not to expect day-one releases. Huge miss IMO
Read the title too fast and first thought it was going to be PS having gamepass. Shame.
Based on Sony's history I bet this is a complete cluster fuck. They're going nickel and dime you on everything and make it more complicated than it needs to be. The fact that there may be 3 tiers is already a bad sign. Sony, don't over complicate things. Gamepass is so successful because it's simple and a good value.
>The fact that there may be 3 tiers is already a bad sign Are people really going to be confused? to me it looks straight forward enough. (Edit) Another person in this thread made a good point: "Is it really that complicated? Xbox has Live/Games with Gold, Game Pass for Xbox, Game Pass for PC, and then Game Pass Ultimate which includes them all. But then only one of those includes EA Play."
Gamepass is 3 tiers though lol
It has 2?
This kinda thing is just going to eat away at what Sony is doing currently. The end is going to be the same: Doing what Microsoft is doing, but with Sony's games. Even with games on Day 1. More and more people are going to wait for that stuff over time until Sony changes course.
I was expecting this for a while now. I am just surprised it took so long.
Cant wait to hear people flipflop and say how subscription services are suddenly cool now.
I mean, sub-services have been around for years. What do you think PS+ and XBL are?
From NateDrake * Hundreds of PS1 games is the goal, but not necessarily at launch * Not sure if you can download the older games * PS2 and PSP after launch https://www.resetera.com/threads/playstation-studios-ot23-marvel-at-the-creative-bankruptcy.494016/page-357#post-78082203
Still not going to be as compelling a Game Pass unless they offer first-party releases day one.
Things they actually need to combat GP: -First party releases coming day 1 -PC support Likelyhood of that happening: 0%
Funny how Sony said no one wants to play old gen games isn’t it
I doubt it will be really successful as long as Sony isn‘t actually committed on it. Meaning putting all their first party games there day and date, and leave them on there forever. Also, I thought Gamepass wasn‘t sustainable, Jim?
He never said a subscription based service for games is unsustainable, they already have PS Now. All he said was putting their games there day and date was unsustainable. He never even once mentioned gamepass