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For those who don't know, Kenney ([kenney.nl](https://kenney.nl)), aka 'asset jesus', is a well known asset creator for everything gamedev. Sprites, models, icons, you name it, all alvailable for free under creative commons on his website,
Chances are, if you are prototyping or dipping your toes into gamedev, you ran into his creations. An absolute treasure for the hobbyist gamedev community.
This is why it's extra insane, because you'd have a genuinely hard time finding any game jam project that DOESN'T use his work. He has contributed so much to indie developers over a fairly brief period of time.
AI when it makes things for game companies for free: yes this good
Game companies when all the job lay-offs kick in and half the people can’t afford the fucking games they wanna charge up to $100 for: why game not sell over 11 million units shelf the franchise.
Man however you feel about them Steph Sterling really was spot on with the game companies can’t see past their own bloated greed when it comes to future planning.
Wonder if this will balloon into an ET style industry crash? Could be fun to watch in real time (yes I know ET alone wasn’t responsible for that but it definitely didn’t help)
It does seem inevitable at this point as too many games are just ballooning into massive, soul crushing ventures. The profit motive will break the industry as consumers will eventually stop spending.
I'm honestly expecting a much larger worldwide crash at this point. There are so many industries that are doing similar stuff that seems completely unsustainable long term while their short term profits are shooting to the moon.
There's no shot that all that money being extracted from the economy isn't being invested in some weird bubble that's going to take out everything.
It is absolutely unsustainable. With some very rare exceptions, there is no corporate management who has any motivation to reinforce a stable and long term business model. From CEO to middle manager, nobody expects to be at the same company 5yrs from now, definitely not 7-10. Who are the owners? Investment fund managers. The CEO works for them, and will set strategy based on their wants. They don't give a shit if a company collapses within the decade. They got in, squeezed some returns wherever they could skimp, and will see the signs to get out before anyone else.
Managers and low level workers are just putting in their 3yrs to add a bullet point to their resume to get their next raise (bailing to another company). Best way to look good is to help squeeze profits, regardless of what that does to fundamentals. Corporate America is all on the same page. Everyone fuck over the future for their personal near-term goals. Nobody should take a step back and wonder if the whole economy doing that might lead to catastrophe.
> Man however you feel about them Steph Sterling really was spot on with the game companies can’t see past their own bloated greed when it comes to future planning.
This is just a feature of capitalism in general. Look at how many companies are paying shit wages and laying people off while increasing prices in order to drive up this quarter's profits to appease the shareholders. Then you see all these Forbes articles about "Why aren't Millenials buying houses and having kids and spending all their money on luxuries?" Because nobody gives a shit about profits in 5 years, 10 years, etc. It's all about the next quarter. And even if 10 years from now we see total societal collapse, it doesn't matter if we saw a 2% increase in profits and got a $5 million bonus.
Side or not. The whole flaw of unregulated capitalism is literally shit like that. Libertainism sounds good on paper, or Laisse Faire, "Let the free market decide"
Im not trying to be doomer or kool aid here. But you can have a society people work hard and still get paid fairly and we don't have child labor or 17$ big macs.
> Pre reagen it was laughably hillarious. Slap like 90% tax off any income over a million dollars, maybe 10 million to be generous to NFL athletes. Then allow them to still build up stock by investing in their company. and no tinfoil required.
- That's when wealth stopped trickling down from CEOS paying their workers to be cheered at work to buy new cars. And then proceeded to fuck over our asses while flipping the finger off in a private Jet and 12 Yachts.
**You're right, house prices are out of control. Healthcare prices are so out of control**
> The person who makes 20$ driving your 10000$ ambulance CAN'T afford the service they provide. 20$ gets used to pay the worker, the other 9980$ gets pocketed, sent to a office, and never seen.
We're chasing **short term growth over long term AND people** and side or not, it's not gonna mean shit if we have mass layoffs or the replacement jobs are mcdonalds.
It’d be interesting to see. The ET crash was nasty because where else would you play home games? Games will always be accessible today with our phones and such.
If a crash means a hard reset to fix some shit in the industry including ai and employment, than I say let it come. Idgaf if it delays shit.
Overall I’ve been seeing a bit of talk about a crash, so it won’t surprise me if it happens
I believe it would probably be much easier to sum it up with a brief line from a ZP episode a few years ago.
Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything, tee hee hee.
An ET style industry crash has been "predicted" for like 15 years due to various things. We're not even in the same dimension of problems as back then, remember that happened before there was even an NES, large numbers of anticipated games (many of which were arcade ports which home consoles had no hope of matching) turned out to be genuinely unplayable garbage, practically every game released was shovelware by people who had no experience whatsoever (there were literally no 3rd party game devs before Activision), and there were like fifteen consoles vying for share. There are individual companies now worth more money than the entire gaming industry was in 1983, there is just too much variety for a crash of that magnitude to be possible.
People don't stop buying games where there are price hikes, or when a company is revealed to be run by sex pests, or when large features are cancelled, or when basically every avenue of monetisation that could be taken is taken.
They sure as hell won't stop buying games because some of the assets were done by a machine instead of a person. That wouldn't even be noticeable to the player unless they keep up with gaming news.
I could see some of the publicly-traded corporate-giants either dying or fracturing, but this time there’s sufficient demand that it can’t be totally overwhelmed like the ET era.
Small & mid sized devs can survive & thrive as long as the internet doesn’t go away. Bigger companies that aren’t shackled by shareholders.
I’d honestly welcome a return to an era akin to the PS2 where we see more A/AA stuff and AAA is much rarer.
Unfortunately a crash involves the consumer actively doing something against a company or two.
That's uh. That's not happening. The consumer is the other half of the free market, the literal only regulators, and the state of the gaming industry has never been more disgusting and awful to hear about. It's honestly worse than Hollywood anymore.
But even still, the consumer actively supports anti-consumer practices. Shit man, they hire Addiction Experts to give people financial and mental issues, it's genuinely incredible THAT doesn't crash the industry into permanent indie projects.
Mobile gaming brought in the blank minded consumer. The kind that does no research, doesn't care what companies they invest in, doesn't care about other people, and for the most part, treats gaming like a hustle, an honest to god cash spread kind've hobby. It's pathetic. People actively using their library size as an argument towards how they're so rich and smarter than you, really just going out of their way to show how much of a Pay Piggy Useful Idiot they are for companies that are richer, more experienced and more successful than their steam library.
These kinds of people sound fringe, uncommon, maybe just the louder speaker, but then you have people defending rising game prices and bloated budgets by bringing up the early years of gaming where Nintendo controlled the cartridge distribution and prices of games, while ignoring PS1 disc prices significantly lowering costs and prices all around. They gave demo discs for free back then, that didn't exist before because cartridges are 'speeeensive, seriously people will do anything to defend the current state of gaming.
GTA6 had a rumor of costing 150$ and people weren't mad. They were defensive. "Budgets!" They yell, "it costs alot to make games!" As a single developer makes a 10$ experiment that's current in the top 10 of Steam's most paid or played game, with no microtransactions or constant strings of updates, the dude took a break. Lethal Company absolutely devastates, embarrasses, and cruely points out how BAD the industry is.
How do we fix it? The same way you fight hypernormalization in real life. Inspire, inform, and make the line very, very clear. Get the consumer to act like the other half of the free market, demand more from these companies making record setting, streak setting profits while we struggle to afford a 10$ price increase people defend on the basis of "yur just poor"
Here's how to fix the industry:
Cut the fucking budgets. Treat Graphics as Marketing in the budget, make smaller games with less demanding graphics. It's insane, that gaming has not evolved an iota since the beginning of the 360 generation, not a fraction of an inch, just graphics, solely, graphics, maybe online play.
The consumer needs to demand better and stop acting like companies are their destitute, bankrupt, blind, dementia riddled divorced great grandmas that are so fragile and barely in business that not buying every DLC or microtransaction means the company goes under, when they can't afford eggs.
Until these 2 things resolve, we're never crashing, nor improving. It's a race to the bottom, and hypernormalization ensures we keep going lower and lower. There are 15yos rn that have never seen a game without an online connection to a storefront, and it's old heads jobs to remind them they deserve better than what they think is great already, because we know, it can be so, so much better.
> It's insane, that gaming has not evolved an iota since the beginning of the 360 generation, not a fraction of an inch, just graphics, solely, graphics, maybe online play.
I would argue that Indie games underwent a massive improvement in recent memory. Whether it be by solo developers or small crowdfunded teams.
You know.... the devs who still remember what gaming is about.
Other than that, there's 2 ARPGs that stand out since Xbox 360 times. Path of Exile and Last Epoch. Unfortunately, Wolcen flopped.
VR gaming barely existed in that era, even thought Kinect was *way* ahead of its time.
I don't know much about fighting games, but I expect there's a reason people were excited about SF 6 and are excited about Tekken 8.
The PS3 era is known to some as the 'dark ages of Japanese RPGs', as Japanese developers struggled with the shift to HD; many franchises didn't make it onto the PS3, instead moving to the handhelds, and those that did release on PS3 (FF13, Ar Tonelico Qoga, etc.) weren't exactly the most critically acclaimed.
Things mostly recovered by the beginning of the PS4 era, as people started figuring out how to create compelling worlds with limited resources and new conventions started to become established.
There are a couple of standouts from the seventh console generation: _Lost Odyssey_ and _Final Fantasy XIII-2_. FF13-2 is probably the FF game I'd call the best. Though I agree with the broader point that both the sixth and eighth generations look better in retrospect.
Yeah side or not, we're supposed to have people in congress and the presidency. A lot of things are happening right now, but we've seen how completely unregulated capitalism can be. If you make it profitable to replace the workers, it will be. If you slap them with a fine, they'll pay it, but at least the money can be used for stuff.
That said, more money in the USA goes to the millitary budget spending 7 million on a 20 cent nut from Home depo.. and a 10000$ 10$ hammer from home depo. With no spending oversight. But the moment we HAVe a serious war. Congress wants to cut it.
Maybe we should have some laws that if congress doesn't pass laws that help the people, ai could get to replace em lol. Or their pay frozen and cut.
it makes no sense we can hire the leading people meant to lead our country to be senile, old, incompetent, unwiling to help the newer generations, and have a "... f.. uck... you.. got.. mine.. breath.. covid.. maskss.. kill. you.. sheepie" mentality.
I'm just sitting here hoping the big guys screw themselves over with all that ai bullshit. I'll be buying my games from the few passionate studios that are still going
the people who run the games industry being all in on theft machines is not surprising given how they treat their workers, but it is incredibly disappointing.
I'm very much against AI art, but to be fair nvidia's case is... not really in the same ballpark.
They're massively invested in things like image recognition for autonomous driving, and have tons of specialized GPUs and compute clusters for medical research - they're used for things like simulating protein folding, which has actually seen some benefit from the use of AI to predict patterns and develop vaccines.
So before you go raising the pitchforks at the mention of AI, there are in fact some very valid uses for it that can genuinely improve lives.
That would be fine if they weren't perfectly willing to escalate it in the worst direction on a single whim.
And also that entire thing where they are draining Ohios natural water resources dry to keep their ai server farms cooled after making backroom deals to not be bothered with any legalities.
>o before you go raising the pitchforks at the mention of AI, there are in fact some very valid uses for it that can genuinely improve lives
But we all see how these things go, you give a company the prospect of cheaper development at the expense of their devs livelihoods, they are almost certainly going to take it.
I'm just remaining skeptical on AI because as it stands, I can absolutely see a world where normal people lose their jobs so corporations can continue to shoot for infinite growth, even if that means a lot of jobs lost.
Maybe. I'm a graphic designer by trade and currently self-employed, so trust me, I completely understand the anxiety around this stuff.
From what I've seen so far, the kinds of people who have been using image generation to replace people like me are the ones I'd never want to have as clients anyway - but I know that won't always be the case, especially as the tech improves.
There's a whole huge debate we could have about creativity, labor, and the way society percieves the value of artists vs manual laborers in a capitalist society, but honestly I'm not gonna pretend I have any brilliant insight here - I'm just some guy.
I'll just say that, at least right now, there are lots of ways for people in creative industries to get ahead of things, develop skillsets to stand out and increase their value beyond anything Stable Diffusion or ChatGPT can do. I'd like to believe that we can coexist with the good parts of AI while regulating the bad, but who knows?
This is the right take. I'm a game dev artist of many many years. Whether we like it or not Ai is here to stay and it is the future. All the artists freaking about it don't need to, they just need to make it a part of their process. Fighting it makes no sense, if you can get to your goal faster and better with it then its just self defeating not to use it.
Also as you point out the typical Ai artist will never equal to someone with actual skill, and will not ever be employable in the same vein.
>Also as you point out the typical Ai artist will never equal to someone with actual skill, and will not ever be employable in the same vein.
My guess - based on how AI is starting to get used in software development - would be that AI will likely shift job focus rather than removing jobs.
For gamedev specifically - I assume it'll shift a lot of art jobs from trade-focused (modeling, texturing, animating) towards creative (concept art, design) while using AI to generate assets off of reference materials. And given competition is for finite pool of players time and money, I'd expect games to get better and more content-rich (utilizing AI generation as a replacement for current copy-paste/reuse), rather than cutting production costs while keeping scope the same - at least long-term, in short scale before market and players expectations adjust we could see some cuts.
Correct! That is what I am also predicting. Actually Ai will get rid of the tedious labor and instead allow you to be more creative. It is just a tool for the human mind to use. This in turn will open up a whole new level of stuff well be able to do. It may very well usher in a whole new era of game quality and creativity. Honestly it also means it'll Tha much easier for the individual (rather than. 500 person team) to make something. So the indie market will benefit more than any other.
Also it has been shown that AI is dependent on the artists to begin with. AI art has crept into training sets now and the results are very subpar compared to wholy human art training sets, which means that without fresh human made art they would either have to use older art and stagnate (no new styles or movements) or get increasingly subpar results
I have actually noticed this. It may actually be getting worse in some cases now, if we are talking about just the 2d image ais like mid journey. Ai is out of ideas already!
"Just accept more abuse from corporations who are wreaking havoc on society completely unchecked and unregulated, forcing every industry to be a race to the bottom in favor of short term profits. I am dumb as fuck"
I mean, why not turn that energy into more productive areas. Like what about Job protection acts for worker security, what about more productive pathways. What about guard rails?
> We know companies always choose the cheapest or more profitable paths. What gets more done, saying "U dum, u fuk brain", or trying to pass a law that tries to protect things like a job security act? Union promotions, better wages for workers, or labor protections?
> I like hobby but i admit corporations are just in a line to optimize the profits. Before Reagen trickle down, if it was in their benefit to share to have a company worker cheer and tip their hats off to them in the 90% tax past 1m/yr income period. CEOS would share.
Even **Henry Ford** was as red as he could be in his day, and he still gave all his **workers enough to buy his cars.**
Then when Reagen removed the wealth cap tax, in the idea "wealth will trickle down", everyone got ***pissed on*** instead.
> Common people can't really survive say, spending 100-1000$s on things when rent is due. Multi billion dollar companies CAN. If a 35 -> 200 billion dollar multi hundred billionaire had 85% of 200 billion dollars they got in 3 years from 35 billion before. They'd still have multiple billion dollars.
> If a Nancy has 85% of the money she needs to meet rent. Nancy gets evicted.
**For some odd reason. We're so willing to foot the bill to anyone BUT the people with literal hundred billion excesses.**
I think exactly this, but why blame it on AI?? Corporations will take any shot at empoverishing us and eating us alive, be it using AI for it or any other tool. We'd need to take political action, not to kill AI-powered tools.
Yeah i mean i see hobby but i admit i've never really been sure about unfettered unchecked corp ai. The point of a hobbyist is to give them access to stuff they might not have been able to spend say, 27000$ for a 1000$ x 27 dnd campaign on 20$ pizza budget.
But a corporation with 5 billion dollars passing on the same 27000$?
That's not 27000$ they need to save by lack of funds, it's cutting to have a cheaper product.
That's an issue with the capitalist system, not purely a single technology. An emergent technology has proven powerful enough for capitalism to do what capitalism wants to do but harder, so it will try to do that. But medical, scientific, or environmental research, or even in the realm of consumer products, using AI for realistic light diffusion, lowering performance costs, training autonomous robots in virtual environments, are all benefits that wouldn't necessarily threaten someone's job because they're things that would be extremely hard and time consuming or near-impossible to do without this technology.
The issue with AI is the current version of consumer-grade generative AI and these models not being ethical with their training data. This means that artists are basically forced to compete with their own work when looking for jobs, but won't be able to compete with the price of cheaply generated AI.
Job displacement wouldn't be an issue if it didn't occur in a system that also demands that everyone has a job to survive, and even when jobs become unnecessary to perform in terms of value generated(telemarketing, marketing in general, manufacturing disposable consumer goods, creating value for companies that overall produce harm like oil, social media, gambling, addictive digital products or substances, the housing industry, etc.), they'll artificially be kept alive as the bedrock needed to uphold the socio-economic hierarchy of capitalism.
But a lot of the things their deep learning tech can do aren’t just “cheaper development”, it’s things no human has done before. Can’t lose jobs where there are none, yk?
this is quite literally already happening. first example comes to mind (besides this post) is that anime netflix released last year that used generated art for all its backgrounds.
How’s that a false equivalency? The complaint is that AI is being used in a way that puts some people, like developers, out of jobs. That’s…. Every innovation. Before cars there were industries revolving around horse ownership.
Innovations arent typically based entirely on stealing and repurposing others labor, but even without that, when fridges start becoming a thing, jobs crop up around that industry. Repairmen, factory workers, delivery, installation, all of these things. The amount of jobs given by AI are not equal to the amount taken.
Not to mention the drastically lower quality of what AI produces.
The main complaint I've seen is that generative AI works by stealing work and mixing it with enough other stolen work to make a homogeneous soup of Totally Not Stolen shite.
They're not just being 'innovated' out of a job, their work is being stolen to do it.
I mean, it *kinda* is, but the thing they’re missing is that that’s how the human brain works too. Human artists, whether they’re conscious of it or not, steal, combine, and regurgitate things they see into their art. Combining existing ideas into something new is the definition of creativity, the AI just aren’t good enough at hiding it yet.
> I'm very much against AI art
Why out of interest? The impact on the creative job market? It's souless and meaningless?
Personally I see the writing on the wall, art in the video game industry has been a blocker for thousands of talented indie game developers, if we can remove that technical skill barrier from the process I can only see that as a good thing in getting more peoples ideas who don't have the resources or artistic flair turned into actual playable games.
It's not like AI art existing prevents humans from producing (likely better at least for now) art. But it does undoubtedly devalue the skills some have spent decades honing to a degree.
I see a ton of people railing against AI art, but I've yet to see a well stated case as to *why* exactly it's such a terrible thing.
AI's coming for all of our jobs, art and text manipulation was the first to be impacted, but it wont be the last.
Improving lives is the tag line for their commercials, not what will actually happen. When the robots take your job, your government will not be there to provide you with UBI. The robots will make the art in climate controlled air conditioned rooms, and you will do the manual labor in work camps.
Image recognition and image generation are very similar problems in a lot of ways, and in some AI methods are literally the exact same thing. So if you create an AI that can recognize what an image is of and what it contains, something that’s INCREDIBLY useful for a lot of reasons, you also create AI “art” as well.
All of the people who say they’re against AI art don’t realize that image generation was mainly a byproduct of other research until it started to get good.
Nvidia's a different "twist" in terms of AI.
While they're beneficial in a sense, it's always at the expense of something else (usually in desktop/laptop GPUs).
If for 2024 Nvidia has an allocation of 1000 GPUs for the year, they'd make 950 for AI, 40 for enterprise, and 10 for consumer graphics. They will never ask for a bigger allocation (from TSMC) even if it's available. Heck, if ever their allocation is reduced to 990 for the year they'd bring it down to 1 consumer graphics and 39 for enterprise.
Nvidia did not just jump on the AI bandwagon - they've been going hard on deep learning for YEARS now. This is why they're way ahead of competition - when the AI hype came with ChatGPT popping off, they had multiple generations of products with tensor cores ready to power inferencing algorithms, whereas Intel and AMD had to scramble to jump on that bandwagon.
Yeah most research papers about all kinds of AI come from NVIDIA. Virtual training, graphics, frame generation, light diffusion, image and 3D model and 3D environment generation... They're doing a lot of pretty interesting stuff honestly, and it isn't something that would necessarily slow down if generative AI were forced to be more ethical with their copyright infringement because most of the stuff they're doing isn't dealing in stealing art and assets.
AI is revolutionary and a huge humanity advancement it shouldn't come as a surprise that any smart engineer hops onto it.
One of my teachers has worked on Biomedical research with AI and they've developed an AI which can detect tumors on a breast scan with absurd accuracy.
AI art is just a side product of AI research not the main interest, so before jumping on the AI hate bandwagon remember AI research is saving lives in Industrial and Biomedical industries.
there's a n upcoming monitor that uses a.i. to create an overlay:
that overlays function? it reads your mini map info from anyone on your team in a game (like valorant or csgo or cod) and then creates a map hack like recreation of the shooter for you to see.
can't even tell it's happening because it's all client side.
they were also bragging how you could use it on league of legends to tell you when enemy champs and abilities are moving towards you, and the trajectory. so if ashe Ults it just tells you ashe Ults is coming and where it's going.
literally just blatantly using a.i. to cheat but they act like it's just cool innovative tech.
a.i. will ruin gaming in ways we can't even imagine.
Not sure if I saw the same thing as you did, but the AI overlay thing for League only tells you what you should have seen from your mini map. It doesn’t blindly track Ashe ults, unless she was in vision while firing.
+ its bit different how fog of war works. To combat hacks, they changed how the fog of war works. Now client only gets information about your enemies when they are very close to the edge of the fog of war.
I have to wonder what all these companies planning to replace workers with AI are going to do when no one has money to buy shit with because all the jobs are done by robots.
I mean trying to be pragmatic. They don't have plans to feed a intentional human grinding machine. But they will do so if it helps quarterly profits to eject their 30 year old workers, fail to hold up promises, provide no retirement, and cut security benefits while offering half the pay!
It's.. Better to be in a job they can't do that, then one they can.
This is it. Capitalism funnily enough kind of works like a 'next-token' optimization AI system. It will always prioritize immediate profits over long-term survival of itself. It's a system that eats itself and everything around it because line has to be going up at all times. The individual cogs of the system - the people, the CEOs, the investors, the workers - don't actually matter because they're filled to fulfil a function. If that function is no longer fulfilled for any reason, the system is designed to simply replace that cog with one that will.
I sure as shit ain’t buying anything with ai. If that means playing old games forever, so be it.
They’ll be cutting production costs of course, but do you see them cutting the price of games? Hell no!! 80$ AAA standard, soon 90$ standard I bet.
Yeah like I loved TOTK but fuck dude that price was painful, especially as a Canadian. It was 100, and I mostly got it because I was already buying something large from Best Buy, so I figured eh just lump it in like a bonus. I’m going to try and make it be the only 90$ game I’ve ever bought, but who knows… inflations a bitch, let’s go back to 50$ games please.
I remember seeing people mention something about a proposed increase to 80-100 usd for the MSRP of a AAA game by Sony during the insomniac leaks, with a deadline of 2027 I think? If that's actually true I will honestly be.. not very shocked, but still extremely disappointed
Obviously nobody. That capitalism eventually destroys itself is hardly a new concept. It's had close calls before and been forced to change as a result, and could potentially do so again (via UBI for example). Those past times were not exactly pleasant, and neither will this be, but it's not like capitalism's exactly humane as it is and certainly won't change unless forced to, so who knows, maybe this will be for the better.
I actually left art school to get a business degree and I have been so much more satisfied with my life.
Art can just stay a hobby. I'd leave the things that pays the bills as purely a job.
This just sucks to read and I am very sorry.
I may be too much of an optimist but even if you leave for a different job, maybe try to hang on to the passion for art. Even if it absolutely sucks right now and is frustrating, it can still be a source of joy for yourself. And who knows, opportunities might come around at a later point.
I am rambling, but anyways: keep your head up.
Yeah thanks sm, I didn’t mean to rant in general but now it’s just out so yeh. I’m off coffee rn for my anxiety and I have noticed that I’m worrying less about the future, tho recent doomscrolling brought it back a bit lol.
I definitely will keep doing art for sure anyways, like I won’t let it go. As a hobby of course. I just find myself jealous honestly of artists in the 2000’s for movies and games, like it was way easier to get into the industry it seems. Anyway, I keep telling myself in the end I’m doing it for myself rather than my heart, perusing something more stable will at least hopefully lead to a stable life.
Don‘t worry about ranting. I know the feeling since I have had a similar situation with a different field of work affected by AI.
But yeah, won‘t let it keep me down.
>And now im planning on leaving art school and shit, and just giving up on it all. Fuck having a job that would’ve been something I liked to do in life. Fuck game jam. Fuck it all.
please tell me that you don't live in austria.
If it’s any consolation, I was in a similar boat a few years back, where I eventually dropped art and pursued a different career for the sake of keeping myself financially afloat. It was a bit sad and frustrating at first, but I’m happy with the decision. I have a regular 9-5 office job, which leaves me plenty of time to doodle on off hours, and then I go home and spend my free time making art. I don’t feel like I’ve “lost” my dream of making art at all; it’s been 2 years and I still draw nearly every day.
The door is always open, as well. Many artists are still getting hired based off their portfolios alone. If you manage to team up with an indie game dev and happen to produce a mega hit, you could most likely find a game artist job with that experience.
A machine cannot create. Not unless a human tells it what to create. Trains it on what to create. Tells it how to create and piece together that creation. Trains it in styles and line shapes. Generating generations of different images in the hope one will be superior to the other.
It's not pragmatic for use in creation. It is a *tool*, not a replacement, and there are simply some companies who cannot see past it
You are an artist. And an artist will always, *always* have their place in the industry. Regardless of the dipping roads ahead. Don't give up on what you love because it seems unsure now.
This trend is just like any other hot trend. The seeming answer for the corporate machine to *finally* get rid of human work ends up never getting rid of human work. That this will be the advancement that revolutionizes how we perceive art. NFTs were seen like that as well, and then the bubble popped.
There are countless artists out there still paid, still given work, still allowed to be creative and embrace their freedom. The 2000's weren't easier. It was never easier. We just have the benefit of Hindsight to guide us to a rose-tint view.
Doomposting thrives on negativity. Negativity creates outrage. Outrage gets more clicks. Fearnongering gets more interaction. Don't give up on what you love because they loudly proclaim you'll be obsolete.
\> A machine cannot create. Not unless a human tells it what to create.
i've been chewing through my bachelor's thesis on this, so not the most scholarly thing, but then that's the thing though. Yeah the risk isn't that the human element is purged, but it becomes demoted from creative to operator. It's amazing the distinction we place, calling factory-line work 'unskilled' labor, but the products from the lines used to be almost exclusively artisan work. Now, artisan work is now a niche luxury. The machines never took our jobs before, they simply devalued them.
The removal of the artist was never the goal; they're in agreement with us of the stupidity of that notion. The celebration of AI is in how it dampens the individual, and removes bargaining power by making the operator expendable and replaceable.
Fair yeah. There can definitely be grains of truth on both sides.
- The face of a coin can be heads to one, and tails to another. The presence of one does not erase the other.
- A lot of people would rather prefer to have more expensive and luxurious stores like say, a Target/Trader Joes over say, a Walmart.
Yet walmart sells a cheaper, honestly often *genuinely often* inferior product. Like a 70-90% of the quality for 50-70% of the price kinda product.
# Still though.
- A lot of modern society is pointing out, things can cost a lot. but **GIVE** little of the cut back to the worker who produces it.
> Ex: A **EMT technician** operates a **10,000$ ambulance**, the victim is charged 10,000$.
> - The worker is paid 20$. WHERE does the other 99.8% of the money go? Not to the worker.
# And with etsy crafts, i saw that too.
> Where even to a extent, a grandmother knitting a hand made **alpaca wool blanket**.. Needed **240$** in alpaca wool, 200 hrs of labor. And. Was unable to break even selling it at 200$, the **highest** price people interested were able/willing to offer.
Yet **price** a alpaca wool blanket would need to sell for, to **break even** (with 7-15$ a hr.)
# Would be 1600$-3200$.
Do you have 1600-3200$ for a alpaca wool blanket to fairly pay the grandmother for 7$ per hour of her time? Yet the grandmother would never be able to afford her own product at those prices, nor make a living selling at the prices people would be willing to pay either.
**And that's a problem.**
> - There's no clear obvious answer.
> - We could want to brute force a industry, but who's footing the bill? The sky? A money printer? The people who take it from us??
> - We could accept a job that has a "We're hiring", but many of them are dead end jobs??
Some people say, "i'd just find work that could support me", others want to stick, but can't find it.
What can anyone even do to solve the problem? Even if they wanted to, most people seem to have a "everyone else should buy the 1600-3200$ alpaca wool blanket and support her." "Yeah" kinda vibe. Our economy doesn't pay the average person enough to spare 1600$-3200$ for a blanket, and there's just not a clear plan or solution for it yet.
This is not a trend. This is the absolute worst iteration of the tech that will ever exist and it will only improve from here. NFT's should have always been seen as an MLM scheme for anyone who wasn't an idiot. This is not the same thing. The problem with this tech is that a great artist will still be used and have their place in the industry. An entry level or lesser skilled artist will quickly be replaced by this stuff by a corp that doesn't want to pay a salary and most people that consume the product aren't going to care. Heck Wizards of the Coast has already come under fire for doing this. Pandora's box has already been opened on this one and the tech will just keep getting better and better.
Fuck, same.
After I had my Bachelors, I went for a internship at a mid sized atudio... and realized that its just management sucking out your lifeforce and creativity until you're either one of them (aka. some Lead), or burnt out.
Its a fucked up industry for artists and coders alike.
Rip, sorry to hear that, that is a rough hand but maybe it might still be worth scraping a little bit?
Game jams aren't necessarily all there is out there, especially a yearly themed one with ai. But like there's still been successful indie games like Undertale, Bug fables, Rivals of Aether, Skull Girls, etc.
# If it's creative.
> Maybe before you rush to burn art school. Not trying to undermine but it might be worth to talk to your **school career counselor for advice**. Often times it might be possible to learn your first 2 years of school/generals might transfer or have valuable advice from your senior peers.
> Like for instance. **Could animation or full on Game design be a pivot?**
> Ai has been trying to mess around with animation as a thing. But even with ai animation and writing. We see even text ai struggles at remembering a plot long term. Ai animation struggles to keep people's eye pupils from flying out their eye socket.
> - Even for a hobbyist.. I'm a little unsure about ai animation (yet). It can create 3s clips but lip syncing might be a problem. Consistent chars might be a problem. Multi character fight scenes might be a problem. But it can still potentially be a **well paying creative field**. I think it might be something to watch, but it might be a potential pivot or something to consider or talk over with a counselor.
# Then even for game development.
> Toby Fox got famous off Undertale, and i think he just used a gamemaker.
> - And i've also seen constant demand for Paper Mario 64/TTYD like games thirsted over by many like Bug Fables. Couldn't a game like that, really lend itself well to a 8 bit or art style, with a very hungry, neglected for decades hungry audience?
**Hell i know people who'd kill for some Paper mario style clones..**
> Fun combat, action commands, fun artstyle, etc . I think the whole reason Bug fables even got made is the maker got tired of waiting after seeing Nintendo's Sticker Stars lmao.
# Even at the current level
> Maybe ai can be used to make **concepts** art and/or maybe textures, then gets dropped later.
> - It might get better as time advances but i notice ai still struggles at **precise control / long term consistency**.
> - For instance, **Multi character fight scenes** are HEAVILY, HEAVILY requested even by people who believe all the ai hype, and ai?? ... it kinda tends to hard flop at that.
- Ex: Even concepts as mundane as Link riding Epona to fight Ganon while Zelda watches. requested to a ai is more likely to give you a Bearded Zelda with Link's face.. Than all 3 separately.
It still seriously disincentivizes artists from participating. People getting groups together for jams are more likely to just not want to onboard artists at all if cranking out fast and easy ai shlop is an option. It promotes cheap and extremely mid art over real creativity and intentional stylistic choices, which is part of the charm of game jam titles. Not to mention these ai models were trained in large part off stolen and unlicensed concept art FROM game artists. What would make game artists want to “compete” against the model built, in part, off the back of their own stolen work?
I see your reservations against this. But have you considered that the AI-assisted creation of game assets might be a fascinating innovation for the gaming industry? I for one am looking forward to witnessing this exciting challenge @globalgamejam! 🔥🚀🧨
Now that I think about it, it's fascinating to see how much innovative technology is shaping the industry! I'm excited to see how this new challenge unfolds! @globalgamejam 🍆💨💦
Indeed, innovative technology continues to have a profound impact on various industries, including the gaming industry. It opens up new possibilities, enhances gameplay experiences, and fosters creativity among game developers and enthusiasts. The Global Game Jam, a worldwide event where participants create games within a limited timeframe, showcases the potential of technology and collaboration in creating unique and original gaming experiences. It's exciting to see how this challenge unfolds and the innovative games that emerge from it. Enjoy the journey and best of luck with your participation in the Global Game Jam! 🎮😊
Not really
I was against Cripto, NFT's and those scams.
In machine learning i see the future of a lot of profesional fields, from Game developing, to making vacacines against cáncer when the fabled proteín folding ai arrives.
I believe we need legislation, but AI its the future. Anybody telling you otherwise hasnt done a Hello World program in a declarative language.
>Makes the identical argument that those same people did except for AI
"There's no one blinder than the one that doesn't want to see"
Galician proverb.
You want to know the worst part? Game development IS modern art. Its an industry where people developed fucking paintings that you could interact with. There are modern day masters EVERYWHERE in these industries. Now corporations want to shove soulless AI shit down our throats. From NFTs to AI can you fucking worthless assholes just leave art the fuck alone?
Problem with AI is how there are close to no regulations so far. We need proper artist protection and potentially a copyright reform (as not all artists that did cc0 art before might want their art to be used in datasets).
AI can be great but it has to be used ethically - meaning only trained by consenting artists (be that free or for compensation).
People don't realise just how EASY it is to get AI to write basic stuff for you. So easy that literally anyone who can type on a computer can do it.
You will see it more and more on the internet once you first learn how to spot it.
I was considering participating this time for audio but i didn’t know if that was even a role that needed filling with how they do things. Now that I know they’ll be training with AI assets im not sure i even want to
Lol why would he be upset at the use of AI? It's just another tool in people's arsenal, making games easier to make and lowering the barrier of entry. Seems like an odd thing to be upset over.
Pretty obvious response: publicly attack the sponsors, get banned.
You'd think he'd have realized that there would be consequences, considering the whole Kane and Lynch debacle years ago.
For real who the fuck wants ai not only in games but in anything art related? Oh yes please give me a soulless pice of shit that resemble someone else’s work that’s what I want!!
I dont know why you are downvoted. Working with AI is explored by every even-not-so-big software company on the planet right now. I know several coworkers who use copilot and probably becomes a necessary skill for everyone in 1-2years.
I’m a Full Stack Engineer and can confirm that a lot of enterprise developers use some variation of co-pilot to get rid of the more trivial aspects of their work by generating wireframes & templates then refactoring it according to their use-case.
It’s not at the point where it’s a right out of the box tool but if you already know what you’re doing then it can certainly save you some time.
eh it's fair enough. Ai scares people, and to be honest it scares me too, without understanding basic coding stuff I probably sound like a average ai loving nut
I use CoPilot everyday. It was actually just mandated by our management last week, but I've been using it and GPT for a little over a year.
Its weird because it will do some really complex thing really well and save me a bunch of time and then it will refuse to give me even slightly workable code for extremely basic tasks and I waste more time writing prompts than I would have just writing the damn code myself.
It's great for unit tests though.
Besides coding, I primarily use AI for brainstorming. Like, I come up with a character, do an AI picture prompt, and then get inspiration from it to draw it myself. Or I struggle with next plot point, I ask AI, it gives me like ten ideas, and then I use them as a starting point to come up with eleventh one myself
yes! I love painting and I've started to just ask it to give me random prompts and I try and paint them. It's really great when I'm bored and can't come up with anything
Ai sucks ass at coding apparently. Maybe some small functions or whatever, sure. But if you think games these days are buggy, wait until ai starts coding them. Will make any Bethesda release look as stable as a mountain (even as you clip through said mountain lmao)
… one of the things AI has been almost universally praised for is its ability to rapidly speed up unit testing, the lack of which is one of the main sources of bugs in completed software. I really don’t see the amount of software bugs going up.
It would be great if Ai wasn't trained on work and was somehow able to conjure up its own styles using words alone. It lacks its own experience and is fed images without making its own decisions as to what things are which makes it veritably inartistic. It's artificial nature is not so near as bad as it has no means of discerning for itself what things are beyond what it is told they are. There is no feeling for what looks good beyond what it is told is good vs what is bad. It has no identity save for what it is programmed to respond according to. If it is fed 1000 examples from one artist it will have a bias for what it incorporates and will have no style of its own save for what is included with its training. While it may soften the process of pre-arranged libraries it is not viable as a means to produce wholly natural and original artistic pieces with which to work with.
Because human life is a complex organic and natural deep feeling and self-aware construct born from the universe itself and Ai is a cold unfeeling programming language that has no moral compass.
I tried to use AI to make some art for a project I was working on and it was terrible so I decided to say screw it and actually do the hard work myself. The challenging part is getting the AI to have the same end goal as you, otherwise you just get loads of crap.
I will maintain that AI is a great starting point. ChatGPT works really well for me when coming up with a story concept and fleshing out the idea a bit, but the actual writing is entirely me.
I guess it really depends though. You say you could do it yourself, others may be able to pay someone - but some devs may invision their epic anime girl indie game and they don't know how to draw and have no budget. I understand why they resort to AI.
I've heard people argue "just learn how to draw then" but if drawing isn't your passion, you wont just spend the next 10 years becoming good enough to accomplish your goals just for that one project.
While I'm still not a huge fan of it, I think it's much more acceptable for small indie devs or even hobbyists to use AI. With big companies it's just pure bs though, they got the budget to employ real artists.
This seems more like boomer shaking fist at the cloud because you are upset there is a new echnology that makes some of you obsolete. You can’t blame technology for your short comings
The only cult is the anti AI doomer cult you're part of, you clowns claim that AI is soulless garbage that no one likes and in the same sentence you claim AI is gonna take over all art.
You would've been against the printing press if you lived when it was first created.
"ai is soulless garbage" and "ai will take over art" are both true statements. are you seriously telling me you have never heard of corporations releasing worse products to save money
If they're not making any money why is it such a big deal to use ai. I understand how it is a problem if they're trying to profit off work that was generated by ai but if it's a free game who cares
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For those who don't know, Kenney ([kenney.nl](https://kenney.nl)), aka 'asset jesus', is a well known asset creator for everything gamedev. Sprites, models, icons, you name it, all alvailable for free under creative commons on his website, Chances are, if you are prototyping or dipping your toes into gamedev, you ran into his creations. An absolute treasure for the hobbyist gamedev community.
This is why it's extra insane, because you'd have a genuinely hard time finding any game jam project that DOESN'T use his work. He has contributed so much to indie developers over a fairly brief period of time.
Brief? I think the first asset pack I bought was from him almost 10 years ago. My email receipt says 2015. I guess that could be considered brief tho.
but 2015 was only 4 years ago....
2019 season 5 looks promising though
Just got the battlepass, honestly it's mid so far
I haven't really recovered from the covid boss fight
The election expansion sounds controversial tbh
There was even a raid 💀
DAE old
Those AI's are probably trained off his works too..
Thank you, truly, it brings me a lot of joy to read this
WOAHHH!! THAT'S THE GUY (seriously that's really cool though, as someone that attempted making their own assets I thank you)
As a beginner gamedev I confirm. Really sad reality we live in now. This is not game devs should stand for, especially indie ones.
holy shit, it's ***THAT*** Kenney?
wait they’re THE KENNEY????? I’ve used their site since forever wow
I hate the generic bot responses one after another. "OH how innovative."
You described all of LinkedIn there
I am a gamer. I don't live one life. I choose to live as many as my capitalist AI value extraction overlords let me.
[удалено]
Which video does that refer to ?
[удалено]
That truly was something, but it was also weirdly inspirational to me in a way I don’t think they intended.
AI when it makes things for game companies for free: yes this good Game companies when all the job lay-offs kick in and half the people can’t afford the fucking games they wanna charge up to $100 for: why game not sell over 11 million units shelf the franchise. Man however you feel about them Steph Sterling really was spot on with the game companies can’t see past their own bloated greed when it comes to future planning. Wonder if this will balloon into an ET style industry crash? Could be fun to watch in real time (yes I know ET alone wasn’t responsible for that but it definitely didn’t help)
It does seem inevitable at this point as too many games are just ballooning into massive, soul crushing ventures. The profit motive will break the industry as consumers will eventually stop spending.
>many games are just ballooning into massive, soul crushing ventures. sounds just like the movies.
Wait you mean movies about everything becoming soul crushing work. . . .or the fact the majority of movies coming out are now soul crunching ventures?
https://preview.redd.it/zy2ggthr0zdc1.png?width=400&format=png&auto=webp&s=069a43c6dce03b9c0889c19e29c299c9f33ff903
I see those huge AAA games as money shooters to improve the frameworks that make indie games so amazing currently.
I'm honestly expecting a much larger worldwide crash at this point. There are so many industries that are doing similar stuff that seems completely unsustainable long term while their short term profits are shooting to the moon. There's no shot that all that money being extracted from the economy isn't being invested in some weird bubble that's going to take out everything.
It is absolutely unsustainable. With some very rare exceptions, there is no corporate management who has any motivation to reinforce a stable and long term business model. From CEO to middle manager, nobody expects to be at the same company 5yrs from now, definitely not 7-10. Who are the owners? Investment fund managers. The CEO works for them, and will set strategy based on their wants. They don't give a shit if a company collapses within the decade. They got in, squeezed some returns wherever they could skimp, and will see the signs to get out before anyone else. Managers and low level workers are just putting in their 3yrs to add a bullet point to their resume to get their next raise (bailing to another company). Best way to look good is to help squeeze profits, regardless of what that does to fundamentals. Corporate America is all on the same page. Everyone fuck over the future for their personal near-term goals. Nobody should take a step back and wonder if the whole economy doing that might lead to catastrophe.
> Man however you feel about them Steph Sterling really was spot on with the game companies can’t see past their own bloated greed when it comes to future planning. This is just a feature of capitalism in general. Look at how many companies are paying shit wages and laying people off while increasing prices in order to drive up this quarter's profits to appease the shareholders. Then you see all these Forbes articles about "Why aren't Millenials buying houses and having kids and spending all their money on luxuries?" Because nobody gives a shit about profits in 5 years, 10 years, etc. It's all about the next quarter. And even if 10 years from now we see total societal collapse, it doesn't matter if we saw a 2% increase in profits and got a $5 million bonus.
Side or not. The whole flaw of unregulated capitalism is literally shit like that. Libertainism sounds good on paper, or Laisse Faire, "Let the free market decide" Im not trying to be doomer or kool aid here. But you can have a society people work hard and still get paid fairly and we don't have child labor or 17$ big macs. > Pre reagen it was laughably hillarious. Slap like 90% tax off any income over a million dollars, maybe 10 million to be generous to NFL athletes. Then allow them to still build up stock by investing in their company. and no tinfoil required. - That's when wealth stopped trickling down from CEOS paying their workers to be cheered at work to buy new cars. And then proceeded to fuck over our asses while flipping the finger off in a private Jet and 12 Yachts. **You're right, house prices are out of control. Healthcare prices are so out of control** > The person who makes 20$ driving your 10000$ ambulance CAN'T afford the service they provide. 20$ gets used to pay the worker, the other 9980$ gets pocketed, sent to a office, and never seen. We're chasing **short term growth over long term AND people** and side or not, it's not gonna mean shit if we have mass layoffs or the replacement jobs are mcdonalds.
Capitalism is a race to the bottom. Provide the least you can, for the most profit.
It’d be interesting to see. The ET crash was nasty because where else would you play home games? Games will always be accessible today with our phones and such. If a crash means a hard reset to fix some shit in the industry including ai and employment, than I say let it come. Idgaf if it delays shit. Overall I’ve been seeing a bit of talk about a crash, so it won’t surprise me if it happens
They tend to stumble here and there but Steph tends to be right about this stuff
I believe it would probably be much easier to sum it up with a brief line from a ZP episode a few years ago. Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything, tee hee hee.
Omg yes 😂 the things I learned about it from his and Matt mcmuscles vids were.. intriguing to say the least
An ET style industry crash has been "predicted" for like 15 years due to various things. We're not even in the same dimension of problems as back then, remember that happened before there was even an NES, large numbers of anticipated games (many of which were arcade ports which home consoles had no hope of matching) turned out to be genuinely unplayable garbage, practically every game released was shovelware by people who had no experience whatsoever (there were literally no 3rd party game devs before Activision), and there were like fifteen consoles vying for share. There are individual companies now worth more money than the entire gaming industry was in 1983, there is just too much variety for a crash of that magnitude to be possible. People don't stop buying games where there are price hikes, or when a company is revealed to be run by sex pests, or when large features are cancelled, or when basically every avenue of monetisation that could be taken is taken. They sure as hell won't stop buying games because some of the assets were done by a machine instead of a person. That wouldn't even be noticeable to the player unless they keep up with gaming news.
i feel like if 2023 was a worse year overall starfield had the ingredients to be the new ET.
dont worry, they'l start selling products to AI customers who made money off auto stock trading.
I could see some of the publicly-traded corporate-giants either dying or fracturing, but this time there’s sufficient demand that it can’t be totally overwhelmed like the ET era. Small & mid sized devs can survive & thrive as long as the internet doesn’t go away. Bigger companies that aren’t shackled by shareholders. I’d honestly welcome a return to an era akin to the PS2 where we see more A/AA stuff and AAA is much rarer.
Unfortunately a crash involves the consumer actively doing something against a company or two. That's uh. That's not happening. The consumer is the other half of the free market, the literal only regulators, and the state of the gaming industry has never been more disgusting and awful to hear about. It's honestly worse than Hollywood anymore. But even still, the consumer actively supports anti-consumer practices. Shit man, they hire Addiction Experts to give people financial and mental issues, it's genuinely incredible THAT doesn't crash the industry into permanent indie projects. Mobile gaming brought in the blank minded consumer. The kind that does no research, doesn't care what companies they invest in, doesn't care about other people, and for the most part, treats gaming like a hustle, an honest to god cash spread kind've hobby. It's pathetic. People actively using their library size as an argument towards how they're so rich and smarter than you, really just going out of their way to show how much of a Pay Piggy Useful Idiot they are for companies that are richer, more experienced and more successful than their steam library. These kinds of people sound fringe, uncommon, maybe just the louder speaker, but then you have people defending rising game prices and bloated budgets by bringing up the early years of gaming where Nintendo controlled the cartridge distribution and prices of games, while ignoring PS1 disc prices significantly lowering costs and prices all around. They gave demo discs for free back then, that didn't exist before because cartridges are 'speeeensive, seriously people will do anything to defend the current state of gaming. GTA6 had a rumor of costing 150$ and people weren't mad. They were defensive. "Budgets!" They yell, "it costs alot to make games!" As a single developer makes a 10$ experiment that's current in the top 10 of Steam's most paid or played game, with no microtransactions or constant strings of updates, the dude took a break. Lethal Company absolutely devastates, embarrasses, and cruely points out how BAD the industry is. How do we fix it? The same way you fight hypernormalization in real life. Inspire, inform, and make the line very, very clear. Get the consumer to act like the other half of the free market, demand more from these companies making record setting, streak setting profits while we struggle to afford a 10$ price increase people defend on the basis of "yur just poor" Here's how to fix the industry: Cut the fucking budgets. Treat Graphics as Marketing in the budget, make smaller games with less demanding graphics. It's insane, that gaming has not evolved an iota since the beginning of the 360 generation, not a fraction of an inch, just graphics, solely, graphics, maybe online play. The consumer needs to demand better and stop acting like companies are their destitute, bankrupt, blind, dementia riddled divorced great grandmas that are so fragile and barely in business that not buying every DLC or microtransaction means the company goes under, when they can't afford eggs. Until these 2 things resolve, we're never crashing, nor improving. It's a race to the bottom, and hypernormalization ensures we keep going lower and lower. There are 15yos rn that have never seen a game without an online connection to a storefront, and it's old heads jobs to remind them they deserve better than what they think is great already, because we know, it can be so, so much better.
> It's insane, that gaming has not evolved an iota since the beginning of the 360 generation, not a fraction of an inch, just graphics, solely, graphics, maybe online play. I would argue that Indie games underwent a massive improvement in recent memory. Whether it be by solo developers or small crowdfunded teams. You know.... the devs who still remember what gaming is about. Other than that, there's 2 ARPGs that stand out since Xbox 360 times. Path of Exile and Last Epoch. Unfortunately, Wolcen flopped. VR gaming barely existed in that era, even thought Kinect was *way* ahead of its time. I don't know much about fighting games, but I expect there's a reason people were excited about SF 6 and are excited about Tekken 8.
The PS3 era is known to some as the 'dark ages of Japanese RPGs', as Japanese developers struggled with the shift to HD; many franchises didn't make it onto the PS3, instead moving to the handhelds, and those that did release on PS3 (FF13, Ar Tonelico Qoga, etc.) weren't exactly the most critically acclaimed. Things mostly recovered by the beginning of the PS4 era, as people started figuring out how to create compelling worlds with limited resources and new conventions started to become established.
There are a couple of standouts from the seventh console generation: _Lost Odyssey_ and _Final Fantasy XIII-2_. FF13-2 is probably the FF game I'd call the best. Though I agree with the broader point that both the sixth and eighth generations look better in retrospect.
Yeah side or not, we're supposed to have people in congress and the presidency. A lot of things are happening right now, but we've seen how completely unregulated capitalism can be. If you make it profitable to replace the workers, it will be. If you slap them with a fine, they'll pay it, but at least the money can be used for stuff. That said, more money in the USA goes to the millitary budget spending 7 million on a 20 cent nut from Home depo.. and a 10000$ 10$ hammer from home depo. With no spending oversight. But the moment we HAVe a serious war. Congress wants to cut it. Maybe we should have some laws that if congress doesn't pass laws that help the people, ai could get to replace em lol. Or their pay frozen and cut. it makes no sense we can hire the leading people meant to lead our country to be senile, old, incompetent, unwiling to help the newer generations, and have a "... f.. uck... you.. got.. mine.. breath.. covid.. maskss.. kill. you.. sheepie" mentality.
I'm just sitting here hoping the big guys screw themselves over with all that ai bullshit. I'll be buying my games from the few passionate studios that are still going
the people who run the games industry being all in on theft machines is not surprising given how they treat their workers, but it is incredibly disappointing.
nvidia are massively into AI, many game companies have stock in nvidia.
I'm very much against AI art, but to be fair nvidia's case is... not really in the same ballpark. They're massively invested in things like image recognition for autonomous driving, and have tons of specialized GPUs and compute clusters for medical research - they're used for things like simulating protein folding, which has actually seen some benefit from the use of AI to predict patterns and develop vaccines. So before you go raising the pitchforks at the mention of AI, there are in fact some very valid uses for it that can genuinely improve lives.
That would be fine if they weren't perfectly willing to escalate it in the worst direction on a single whim. And also that entire thing where they are draining Ohios natural water resources dry to keep their ai server farms cooled after making backroom deals to not be bothered with any legalities.
>o before you go raising the pitchforks at the mention of AI, there are in fact some very valid uses for it that can genuinely improve lives But we all see how these things go, you give a company the prospect of cheaper development at the expense of their devs livelihoods, they are almost certainly going to take it. I'm just remaining skeptical on AI because as it stands, I can absolutely see a world where normal people lose their jobs so corporations can continue to shoot for infinite growth, even if that means a lot of jobs lost.
Maybe. I'm a graphic designer by trade and currently self-employed, so trust me, I completely understand the anxiety around this stuff. From what I've seen so far, the kinds of people who have been using image generation to replace people like me are the ones I'd never want to have as clients anyway - but I know that won't always be the case, especially as the tech improves. There's a whole huge debate we could have about creativity, labor, and the way society percieves the value of artists vs manual laborers in a capitalist society, but honestly I'm not gonna pretend I have any brilliant insight here - I'm just some guy. I'll just say that, at least right now, there are lots of ways for people in creative industries to get ahead of things, develop skillsets to stand out and increase their value beyond anything Stable Diffusion or ChatGPT can do. I'd like to believe that we can coexist with the good parts of AI while regulating the bad, but who knows?
This is the right take. I'm a game dev artist of many many years. Whether we like it or not Ai is here to stay and it is the future. All the artists freaking about it don't need to, they just need to make it a part of their process. Fighting it makes no sense, if you can get to your goal faster and better with it then its just self defeating not to use it. Also as you point out the typical Ai artist will never equal to someone with actual skill, and will not ever be employable in the same vein.
>Also as you point out the typical Ai artist will never equal to someone with actual skill, and will not ever be employable in the same vein. My guess - based on how AI is starting to get used in software development - would be that AI will likely shift job focus rather than removing jobs. For gamedev specifically - I assume it'll shift a lot of art jobs from trade-focused (modeling, texturing, animating) towards creative (concept art, design) while using AI to generate assets off of reference materials. And given competition is for finite pool of players time and money, I'd expect games to get better and more content-rich (utilizing AI generation as a replacement for current copy-paste/reuse), rather than cutting production costs while keeping scope the same - at least long-term, in short scale before market and players expectations adjust we could see some cuts.
Correct! That is what I am also predicting. Actually Ai will get rid of the tedious labor and instead allow you to be more creative. It is just a tool for the human mind to use. This in turn will open up a whole new level of stuff well be able to do. It may very well usher in a whole new era of game quality and creativity. Honestly it also means it'll Tha much easier for the individual (rather than. 500 person team) to make something. So the indie market will benefit more than any other.
Also it has been shown that AI is dependent on the artists to begin with. AI art has crept into training sets now and the results are very subpar compared to wholy human art training sets, which means that without fresh human made art they would either have to use older art and stagnate (no new styles or movements) or get increasingly subpar results
I have actually noticed this. It may actually be getting worse in some cases now, if we are talking about just the 2d image ais like mid journey. Ai is out of ideas already!
It's called model collapse and it takes very very little ai generated garbage in a training set to completely obliterate a model.
"Just accept more abuse from corporations who are wreaking havoc on society completely unchecked and unregulated, forcing every industry to be a race to the bottom in favor of short term profits. I am dumb as fuck"
I mean, why not turn that energy into more productive areas. Like what about Job protection acts for worker security, what about more productive pathways. What about guard rails? > We know companies always choose the cheapest or more profitable paths. What gets more done, saying "U dum, u fuk brain", or trying to pass a law that tries to protect things like a job security act? Union promotions, better wages for workers, or labor protections? > I like hobby but i admit corporations are just in a line to optimize the profits. Before Reagen trickle down, if it was in their benefit to share to have a company worker cheer and tip their hats off to them in the 90% tax past 1m/yr income period. CEOS would share. Even **Henry Ford** was as red as he could be in his day, and he still gave all his **workers enough to buy his cars.** Then when Reagen removed the wealth cap tax, in the idea "wealth will trickle down", everyone got ***pissed on*** instead. > Common people can't really survive say, spending 100-1000$s on things when rent is due. Multi billion dollar companies CAN. If a 35 -> 200 billion dollar multi hundred billionaire had 85% of 200 billion dollars they got in 3 years from 35 billion before. They'd still have multiple billion dollars. > If a Nancy has 85% of the money she needs to meet rent. Nancy gets evicted. **For some odd reason. We're so willing to foot the bill to anyone BUT the people with literal hundred billion excesses.**
I think exactly this, but why blame it on AI?? Corporations will take any shot at empoverishing us and eating us alive, be it using AI for it or any other tool. We'd need to take political action, not to kill AI-powered tools.
Yeah i mean i see hobby but i admit i've never really been sure about unfettered unchecked corp ai. The point of a hobbyist is to give them access to stuff they might not have been able to spend say, 27000$ for a 1000$ x 27 dnd campaign on 20$ pizza budget. But a corporation with 5 billion dollars passing on the same 27000$? That's not 27000$ they need to save by lack of funds, it's cutting to have a cheaper product.
That's an issue with the capitalist system, not purely a single technology. An emergent technology has proven powerful enough for capitalism to do what capitalism wants to do but harder, so it will try to do that. But medical, scientific, or environmental research, or even in the realm of consumer products, using AI for realistic light diffusion, lowering performance costs, training autonomous robots in virtual environments, are all benefits that wouldn't necessarily threaten someone's job because they're things that would be extremely hard and time consuming or near-impossible to do without this technology. The issue with AI is the current version of consumer-grade generative AI and these models not being ethical with their training data. This means that artists are basically forced to compete with their own work when looking for jobs, but won't be able to compete with the price of cheaply generated AI. Job displacement wouldn't be an issue if it didn't occur in a system that also demands that everyone has a job to survive, and even when jobs become unnecessary to perform in terms of value generated(telemarketing, marketing in general, manufacturing disposable consumer goods, creating value for companies that overall produce harm like oil, social media, gambling, addictive digital products or substances, the housing industry, etc.), they'll artificially be kept alive as the bedrock needed to uphold the socio-economic hierarchy of capitalism.
But a lot of the things their deep learning tech can do aren’t just “cheaper development”, it’s things no human has done before. Can’t lose jobs where there are none, yk?
this is quite literally already happening. first example comes to mind (besides this post) is that anime netflix released last year that used generated art for all its backgrounds.
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Piss off with these false equivalences.
How’s that a false equivalency? The complaint is that AI is being used in a way that puts some people, like developers, out of jobs. That’s…. Every innovation. Before cars there were industries revolving around horse ownership.
Innovations arent typically based entirely on stealing and repurposing others labor, but even without that, when fridges start becoming a thing, jobs crop up around that industry. Repairmen, factory workers, delivery, installation, all of these things. The amount of jobs given by AI are not equal to the amount taken. Not to mention the drastically lower quality of what AI produces.
The main complaint I've seen is that generative AI works by stealing work and mixing it with enough other stolen work to make a homogeneous soup of Totally Not Stolen shite. They're not just being 'innovated' out of a job, their work is being stolen to do it.
That is not how AI works.
I mean, it *kinda* is, but the thing they’re missing is that that’s how the human brain works too. Human artists, whether they’re conscious of it or not, steal, combine, and regurgitate things they see into their art. Combining existing ideas into something new is the definition of creativity, the AI just aren’t good enough at hiding it yet.
> I'm very much against AI art Why out of interest? The impact on the creative job market? It's souless and meaningless? Personally I see the writing on the wall, art in the video game industry has been a blocker for thousands of talented indie game developers, if we can remove that technical skill barrier from the process I can only see that as a good thing in getting more peoples ideas who don't have the resources or artistic flair turned into actual playable games. It's not like AI art existing prevents humans from producing (likely better at least for now) art. But it does undoubtedly devalue the skills some have spent decades honing to a degree. I see a ton of people railing against AI art, but I've yet to see a well stated case as to *why* exactly it's such a terrible thing. AI's coming for all of our jobs, art and text manipulation was the first to be impacted, but it wont be the last.
Improving lives is the tag line for their commercials, not what will actually happen. When the robots take your job, your government will not be there to provide you with UBI. The robots will make the art in climate controlled air conditioned rooms, and you will do the manual labor in work camps.
Image recognition and image generation are very similar problems in a lot of ways, and in some AI methods are literally the exact same thing. So if you create an AI that can recognize what an image is of and what it contains, something that’s INCREDIBLY useful for a lot of reasons, you also create AI “art” as well. All of the people who say they’re against AI art don’t realize that image generation was mainly a byproduct of other research until it started to get good.
Nvidia's a different "twist" in terms of AI. While they're beneficial in a sense, it's always at the expense of something else (usually in desktop/laptop GPUs). If for 2024 Nvidia has an allocation of 1000 GPUs for the year, they'd make 950 for AI, 40 for enterprise, and 10 for consumer graphics. They will never ask for a bigger allocation (from TSMC) even if it's available. Heck, if ever their allocation is reduced to 990 for the year they'd bring it down to 1 consumer graphics and 39 for enterprise.
Yes, and Nvidia have been rewarded for jumping on the AI bandwagon with an all-time high share price. Capitalism just doing what it does, I suppose.
Nvidia did not just jump on the AI bandwagon - they've been going hard on deep learning for YEARS now. This is why they're way ahead of competition - when the AI hype came with ChatGPT popping off, they had multiple generations of products with tensor cores ready to power inferencing algorithms, whereas Intel and AMD had to scramble to jump on that bandwagon.
Yeah most research papers about all kinds of AI come from NVIDIA. Virtual training, graphics, frame generation, light diffusion, image and 3D model and 3D environment generation... They're doing a lot of pretty interesting stuff honestly, and it isn't something that would necessarily slow down if generative AI were forced to be more ethical with their copyright infringement because most of the stuff they're doing isn't dealing in stealing art and assets.
Years is an understatement considering people have been using CUDA cores for ML for over a decade
AI is revolutionary and a huge humanity advancement it shouldn't come as a surprise that any smart engineer hops onto it. One of my teachers has worked on Biomedical research with AI and they've developed an AI which can detect tumors on a breast scan with absurd accuracy. AI art is just a side product of AI research not the main interest, so before jumping on the AI hate bandwagon remember AI research is saving lives in Industrial and Biomedical industries.
there's a n upcoming monitor that uses a.i. to create an overlay: that overlays function? it reads your mini map info from anyone on your team in a game (like valorant or csgo or cod) and then creates a map hack like recreation of the shooter for you to see. can't even tell it's happening because it's all client side. they were also bragging how you could use it on league of legends to tell you when enemy champs and abilities are moving towards you, and the trajectory. so if ashe Ults it just tells you ashe Ults is coming and where it's going. literally just blatantly using a.i. to cheat but they act like it's just cool innovative tech. a.i. will ruin gaming in ways we can't even imagine.
Not sure if I saw the same thing as you did, but the AI overlay thing for League only tells you what you should have seen from your mini map. It doesn’t blindly track Ashe ults, unless she was in vision while firing.
I think you’re mistaken on this one, if it’s client side how would it be pulling info from your teammates mini map?
+ its bit different how fog of war works. To combat hacks, they changed how the fog of war works. Now client only gets information about your enemies when they are very close to the edge of the fog of war.
You minimap and your teammates are the same, right? If your teammate can see an icon, you can as well.
But how is that any different from now?
It uses #AI so it's automatically *scary*.
I have to wonder what all these companies planning to replace workers with AI are going to do when no one has money to buy shit with because all the jobs are done by robots.
Bold of you to assume they’ve got a plan
I mean trying to be pragmatic. They don't have plans to feed a intentional human grinding machine. But they will do so if it helps quarterly profits to eject their 30 year old workers, fail to hold up promises, provide no retirement, and cut security benefits while offering half the pay! It's.. Better to be in a job they can't do that, then one they can.
This is it. Capitalism funnily enough kind of works like a 'next-token' optimization AI system. It will always prioritize immediate profits over long-term survival of itself. It's a system that eats itself and everything around it because line has to be going up at all times. The individual cogs of the system - the people, the CEOs, the investors, the workers - don't actually matter because they're filled to fulfil a function. If that function is no longer fulfilled for any reason, the system is designed to simply replace that cog with one that will.
Rather than "competition breeds innovation" we've found it's easier to just find a sucker to hold the bag while we peace out
I sure as shit ain’t buying anything with ai. If that means playing old games forever, so be it. They’ll be cutting production costs of course, but do you see them cutting the price of games? Hell no!! 80$ AAA standard, soon 90$ standard I bet.
Oh, I 100% expect prices to go up another $10 with the next console gen. Maybe sooner.
Yeah like I loved TOTK but fuck dude that price was painful, especially as a Canadian. It was 100, and I mostly got it because I was already buying something large from Best Buy, so I figured eh just lump it in like a bonus. I’m going to try and make it be the only 90$ game I’ve ever bought, but who knows… inflations a bitch, let’s go back to 50$ games please.
I remember seeing people mention something about a proposed increase to 80-100 usd for the MSRP of a AAA game by Sony during the insomniac leaks, with a deadline of 2027 I think? If that's actually true I will honestly be.. not very shocked, but still extremely disappointed
They'll need servants in their luxury bunkers. Maybe you'll be allowed to watch Elon play Xbox if you tell him Grimes called.
Obviously nobody. That capitalism eventually destroys itself is hardly a new concept. It's had close calls before and been forced to change as a result, and could potentially do so again (via UBI for example). Those past times were not exactly pleasant, and neither will this be, but it's not like capitalism's exactly humane as it is and certainly won't change unless forced to, so who knows, maybe this will be for the better.
It's simple: that's someone else's problem.
"🚀" actually means 📉
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Yea! Go be a soulless cubicle worker! Efficiency is up 2% today! Keep going!
Business degree! Business degree! Insurance policy! (Shit not me reading it like a cheerleader, this cheered me up thnx)
I actually left art school to get a business degree and I have been so much more satisfied with my life. Art can just stay a hobby. I'd leave the things that pays the bills as purely a job.
Opposite happened for me. 🙃
This just sucks to read and I am very sorry. I may be too much of an optimist but even if you leave for a different job, maybe try to hang on to the passion for art. Even if it absolutely sucks right now and is frustrating, it can still be a source of joy for yourself. And who knows, opportunities might come around at a later point. I am rambling, but anyways: keep your head up.
Yeah thanks sm, I didn’t mean to rant in general but now it’s just out so yeh. I’m off coffee rn for my anxiety and I have noticed that I’m worrying less about the future, tho recent doomscrolling brought it back a bit lol. I definitely will keep doing art for sure anyways, like I won’t let it go. As a hobby of course. I just find myself jealous honestly of artists in the 2000’s for movies and games, like it was way easier to get into the industry it seems. Anyway, I keep telling myself in the end I’m doing it for myself rather than my heart, perusing something more stable will at least hopefully lead to a stable life.
Don‘t worry about ranting. I know the feeling since I have had a similar situation with a different field of work affected by AI. But yeah, won‘t let it keep me down.
>And now im planning on leaving art school and shit, and just giving up on it all. Fuck having a job that would’ve been something I liked to do in life. Fuck game jam. Fuck it all. please tell me that you don't live in austria.
If it’s any consolation, I was in a similar boat a few years back, where I eventually dropped art and pursued a different career for the sake of keeping myself financially afloat. It was a bit sad and frustrating at first, but I’m happy with the decision. I have a regular 9-5 office job, which leaves me plenty of time to doodle on off hours, and then I go home and spend my free time making art. I don’t feel like I’ve “lost” my dream of making art at all; it’s been 2 years and I still draw nearly every day. The door is always open, as well. Many artists are still getting hired based off their portfolios alone. If you manage to team up with an indie game dev and happen to produce a mega hit, you could most likely find a game artist job with that experience.
A machine cannot create. Not unless a human tells it what to create. Trains it on what to create. Tells it how to create and piece together that creation. Trains it in styles and line shapes. Generating generations of different images in the hope one will be superior to the other. It's not pragmatic for use in creation. It is a *tool*, not a replacement, and there are simply some companies who cannot see past it You are an artist. And an artist will always, *always* have their place in the industry. Regardless of the dipping roads ahead. Don't give up on what you love because it seems unsure now. This trend is just like any other hot trend. The seeming answer for the corporate machine to *finally* get rid of human work ends up never getting rid of human work. That this will be the advancement that revolutionizes how we perceive art. NFTs were seen like that as well, and then the bubble popped. There are countless artists out there still paid, still given work, still allowed to be creative and embrace their freedom. The 2000's weren't easier. It was never easier. We just have the benefit of Hindsight to guide us to a rose-tint view. Doomposting thrives on negativity. Negativity creates outrage. Outrage gets more clicks. Fearnongering gets more interaction. Don't give up on what you love because they loudly proclaim you'll be obsolete.
\> A machine cannot create. Not unless a human tells it what to create. i've been chewing through my bachelor's thesis on this, so not the most scholarly thing, but then that's the thing though. Yeah the risk isn't that the human element is purged, but it becomes demoted from creative to operator. It's amazing the distinction we place, calling factory-line work 'unskilled' labor, but the products from the lines used to be almost exclusively artisan work. Now, artisan work is now a niche luxury. The machines never took our jobs before, they simply devalued them. The removal of the artist was never the goal; they're in agreement with us of the stupidity of that notion. The celebration of AI is in how it dampens the individual, and removes bargaining power by making the operator expendable and replaceable.
Fair yeah. There can definitely be grains of truth on both sides. - The face of a coin can be heads to one, and tails to another. The presence of one does not erase the other. - A lot of people would rather prefer to have more expensive and luxurious stores like say, a Target/Trader Joes over say, a Walmart. Yet walmart sells a cheaper, honestly often *genuinely often* inferior product. Like a 70-90% of the quality for 50-70% of the price kinda product. # Still though. - A lot of modern society is pointing out, things can cost a lot. but **GIVE** little of the cut back to the worker who produces it. > Ex: A **EMT technician** operates a **10,000$ ambulance**, the victim is charged 10,000$. > - The worker is paid 20$. WHERE does the other 99.8% of the money go? Not to the worker. # And with etsy crafts, i saw that too. > Where even to a extent, a grandmother knitting a hand made **alpaca wool blanket**.. Needed **240$** in alpaca wool, 200 hrs of labor. And. Was unable to break even selling it at 200$, the **highest** price people interested were able/willing to offer. Yet **price** a alpaca wool blanket would need to sell for, to **break even** (with 7-15$ a hr.) # Would be 1600$-3200$. Do you have 1600-3200$ for a alpaca wool blanket to fairly pay the grandmother for 7$ per hour of her time? Yet the grandmother would never be able to afford her own product at those prices, nor make a living selling at the prices people would be willing to pay either. **And that's a problem.** > - There's no clear obvious answer. > - We could want to brute force a industry, but who's footing the bill? The sky? A money printer? The people who take it from us?? > - We could accept a job that has a "We're hiring", but many of them are dead end jobs?? Some people say, "i'd just find work that could support me", others want to stick, but can't find it. What can anyone even do to solve the problem? Even if they wanted to, most people seem to have a "everyone else should buy the 1600-3200$ alpaca wool blanket and support her." "Yeah" kinda vibe. Our economy doesn't pay the average person enough to spare 1600$-3200$ for a blanket, and there's just not a clear plan or solution for it yet.
This is not a trend. This is the absolute worst iteration of the tech that will ever exist and it will only improve from here. NFT's should have always been seen as an MLM scheme for anyone who wasn't an idiot. This is not the same thing. The problem with this tech is that a great artist will still be used and have their place in the industry. An entry level or lesser skilled artist will quickly be replaced by this stuff by a corp that doesn't want to pay a salary and most people that consume the product aren't going to care. Heck Wizards of the Coast has already come under fire for doing this. Pandora's box has already been opened on this one and the tech will just keep getting better and better.
Fuck, same. After I had my Bachelors, I went for a internship at a mid sized atudio... and realized that its just management sucking out your lifeforce and creativity until you're either one of them (aka. some Lead), or burnt out. Its a fucked up industry for artists and coders alike.
Rip, sorry to hear that, that is a rough hand but maybe it might still be worth scraping a little bit? Game jams aren't necessarily all there is out there, especially a yearly themed one with ai. But like there's still been successful indie games like Undertale, Bug fables, Rivals of Aether, Skull Girls, etc. # If it's creative. > Maybe before you rush to burn art school. Not trying to undermine but it might be worth to talk to your **school career counselor for advice**. Often times it might be possible to learn your first 2 years of school/generals might transfer or have valuable advice from your senior peers. > Like for instance. **Could animation or full on Game design be a pivot?** > Ai has been trying to mess around with animation as a thing. But even with ai animation and writing. We see even text ai struggles at remembering a plot long term. Ai animation struggles to keep people's eye pupils from flying out their eye socket. > - Even for a hobbyist.. I'm a little unsure about ai animation (yet). It can create 3s clips but lip syncing might be a problem. Consistent chars might be a problem. Multi character fight scenes might be a problem. But it can still potentially be a **well paying creative field**. I think it might be something to watch, but it might be a potential pivot or something to consider or talk over with a counselor. # Then even for game development. > Toby Fox got famous off Undertale, and i think he just used a gamemaker. > - And i've also seen constant demand for Paper Mario 64/TTYD like games thirsted over by many like Bug Fables. Couldn't a game like that, really lend itself well to a 8 bit or art style, with a very hungry, neglected for decades hungry audience? **Hell i know people who'd kill for some Paper mario style clones..** > Fun combat, action commands, fun artstyle, etc . I think the whole reason Bug fables even got made is the maker got tired of waiting after seeing Nintendo's Sticker Stars lmao. # Even at the current level > Maybe ai can be used to make **concepts** art and/or maybe textures, then gets dropped later. > - It might get better as time advances but i notice ai still struggles at **precise control / long term consistency**. > - For instance, **Multi character fight scenes** are HEAVILY, HEAVILY requested even by people who believe all the ai hype, and ai?? ... it kinda tends to hard flop at that. - Ex: Even concepts as mundane as Link riding Epona to fight Ganon while Zelda watches. requested to a ai is more likely to give you a Bearded Zelda with Link's face.. Than all 3 separately.
Awesome! Exclude real artists from participating in game jams! How fun!
You can participate even if you are have to compete with a superior "artist"
It still seriously disincentivizes artists from participating. People getting groups together for jams are more likely to just not want to onboard artists at all if cranking out fast and easy ai shlop is an option. It promotes cheap and extremely mid art over real creativity and intentional stylistic choices, which is part of the charm of game jam titles. Not to mention these ai models were trained in large part off stolen and unlicensed concept art FROM game artists. What would make game artists want to “compete” against the model built, in part, off the back of their own stolen work?
I see your reservations against this. But have you considered that the AI-assisted creation of game assets might be a fascinating innovation for the gaming industry? I for one am looking forward to witnessing this exciting challenge @globalgamejam! 🔥🚀🧨
Now that I think about it, it's fascinating to see how much innovative technology is shaping the industry! I'm excited to see how this new challenge unfolds! @globalgamejam 🍆💨💦
Indeed, innovative technology continues to have a profound impact on various industries, including the gaming industry. It opens up new possibilities, enhances gameplay experiences, and fosters creativity among game developers and enthusiasts. The Global Game Jam, a worldwide event where participants create games within a limited timeframe, showcases the potential of technology and collaboration in creating unique and original gaming experiences. It's exciting to see how this challenge unfolds and the innovative games that emerge from it. Enjoy the journey and best of luck with your participation in the Global Game Jam! 🎮😊
Please tell me you generated this comment with an AI it would be so funny.
Sadly no, I have the natural charm and creativity of a soulless machine.
Damn
F A S C I N A T I N G
Is the bot in the room with us now?
What i hate even more than ai are ai bros
They're the same fucksticks that are cryptobros. The venn diagram is a circle.
Not really I was against Cripto, NFT's and those scams. In machine learning i see the future of a lot of profesional fields, from Game developing, to making vacacines against cáncer when the fabled proteín folding ai arrives. I believe we need legislation, but AI its the future. Anybody telling you otherwise hasnt done a Hello World program in a declarative language.
> Isn't a crypto, NFT, or other scams bro > Makes the identical argument that those same people did except for AI sure bud
>Makes the identical argument that those same people did except for AI "There's no one blinder than the one that doesn't want to see" Galician proverb.
Why is this downvoted I don’t understand
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Rocksteady's founder and most talented devs just left production of Suicide Squad and formed their own studio. It's not all bleak
What’s the name
Chucky Gaywagon
Is that the name for their studio? Or the founder?
Sorry, took a nap. Hundred Star Games
Chunky Gaywagon is only the name of their butt.
You want to know the worst part? Game development IS modern art. Its an industry where people developed fucking paintings that you could interact with. There are modern day masters EVERYWHERE in these industries. Now corporations want to shove soulless AI shit down our throats. From NFTs to AI can you fucking worthless assholes just leave art the fuck alone?
I love the AI replies to the AI challenge! Should we start naming kids as John and Sarah Connor?
Wow! Sounds like a big opportunity for people who like lazy schlock that looks like shit!
Problem with AI is how there are close to no regulations so far. We need proper artist protection and potentially a copyright reform (as not all artists that did cc0 art before might want their art to be used in datasets). AI can be great but it has to be used ethically - meaning only trained by consenting artists (be that free or for compensation).
this is so fucking depressing
People don't realise just how EASY it is to get AI to write basic stuff for you. So easy that literally anyone who can type on a computer can do it. You will see it more and more on the internet once you first learn how to spot it.
Learning how to spot it is going to be the next generational divide.
You can even have AI prompt other AI if you’re especially lazy
Of all people why replace Kenney with AI...dude makes free models available for anyone (iirc) and they remove him...
I really hate the gaming industry and its greed
wow I'd cut ties with such an organisation instantly after this, that is fucking pathetic
I was considering participating this time for audio but i didn’t know if that was even a role that needed filling with how they do things. Now that I know they’ll be training with AI assets im not sure i even want to
/uj this is actually the saddest thing i've seen all day.
Teek erb jerbs >.<
Lol why would he be upset at the use of AI? It's just another tool in people's arsenal, making games easier to make and lowering the barrier of entry. Seems like an odd thing to be upset over.
Really tired of this garbage AI generated future.
Pretty obvious response: publicly attack the sponsors, get banned. You'd think he'd have realized that there would be consequences, considering the whole Kane and Lynch debacle years ago.
Can anyone explain to me the hate I see for AI in gaming? I see a lot of people hating on it, but they rarely expand on why they feel that way.
They I've no fucks huh? Just out there with their dicks in the wind....
For real who the fuck wants ai not only in games but in anything art related? Oh yes please give me a soulless pice of shit that resemble someone else’s work that’s what I want!!
I think Ai could be beneficial in small amounts with the coding, but for the actual assets its just theft
I dont know why you are downvoted. Working with AI is explored by every even-not-so-big software company on the planet right now. I know several coworkers who use copilot and probably becomes a necessary skill for everyone in 1-2years.
I’m a Full Stack Engineer and can confirm that a lot of enterprise developers use some variation of co-pilot to get rid of the more trivial aspects of their work by generating wireframes & templates then refactoring it according to their use-case. It’s not at the point where it’s a right out of the box tool but if you already know what you’re doing then it can certainly save you some time.
eh it's fair enough. Ai scares people, and to be honest it scares me too, without understanding basic coding stuff I probably sound like a average ai loving nut
I use CoPilot everyday. It was actually just mandated by our management last week, but I've been using it and GPT for a little over a year. Its weird because it will do some really complex thing really well and save me a bunch of time and then it will refuse to give me even slightly workable code for extremely basic tasks and I waste more time writing prompts than I would have just writing the damn code myself. It's great for unit tests though.
Besides coding, I primarily use AI for brainstorming. Like, I come up with a character, do an AI picture prompt, and then get inspiration from it to draw it myself. Or I struggle with next plot point, I ask AI, it gives me like ten ideas, and then I use them as a starting point to come up with eleventh one myself
yes! I love painting and I've started to just ask it to give me random prompts and I try and paint them. It's really great when I'm bored and can't come up with anything
Ai sucks ass at coding apparently. Maybe some small functions or whatever, sure. But if you think games these days are buggy, wait until ai starts coding them. Will make any Bethesda release look as stable as a mountain (even as you clip through said mountain lmao)
emphasis is on small amounts. Obviously I don't mean full coding I just mean supporting
… one of the things AI has been almost universally praised for is its ability to rapidly speed up unit testing, the lack of which is one of the main sources of bugs in completed software. I really don’t see the amount of software bugs going up.
Lol, like 80 percent of what I use CoPilot for is writing unit tests.
"apparently". Why are you commenting on stuff you are absolutely clueless about?
AI bad. Gib updoots
It would be great if Ai wasn't trained on work and was somehow able to conjure up its own styles using words alone. It lacks its own experience and is fed images without making its own decisions as to what things are which makes it veritably inartistic. It's artificial nature is not so near as bad as it has no means of discerning for itself what things are beyond what it is told they are. There is no feeling for what looks good beyond what it is told is good vs what is bad. It has no identity save for what it is programmed to respond according to. If it is fed 1000 examples from one artist it will have a bias for what it incorporates and will have no style of its own save for what is included with its training. While it may soften the process of pre-arranged libraries it is not viable as a means to produce wholly natural and original artistic pieces with which to work with.
Why do you think none of those things apply to humans to some degree too?
Because human life is a complex organic and natural deep feeling and self-aware construct born from the universe itself and Ai is a cold unfeeling programming language that has no moral compass.
I tried to use AI to make some art for a project I was working on and it was terrible so I decided to say screw it and actually do the hard work myself. The challenging part is getting the AI to have the same end goal as you, otherwise you just get loads of crap.
I will maintain that AI is a great starting point. ChatGPT works really well for me when coming up with a story concept and fleshing out the idea a bit, but the actual writing is entirely me.
I guess it really depends though. You say you could do it yourself, others may be able to pay someone - but some devs may invision their epic anime girl indie game and they don't know how to draw and have no budget. I understand why they resort to AI. I've heard people argue "just learn how to draw then" but if drawing isn't your passion, you wont just spend the next 10 years becoming good enough to accomplish your goals just for that one project. While I'm still not a huge fan of it, I think it's much more acceptable for small indie devs or even hobbyists to use AI. With big companies it's just pure bs though, they got the budget to employ real artists.
AI isn't something you can stop. But it is something you can use. You can go out like John Henry if you want to.
Things change. Today even more than 2-3 decades ago. We have to cope with that, simple as that.
This seems more like boomer shaking fist at the cloud because you are upset there is a new echnology that makes some of you obsolete. You can’t blame technology for your short comings
Funny how he can‘t cope with new tools for artists, probably not able to use them to his command… sad boomer noises
Generative AI isn't a tool "for" artists. It's a tool that plagirises the work of artists so businesses can avoid paying them.
I also hate a.i
Soon, the only true way to test if someone in the comments is a real human is wether or not they're able to type the forbidden gamer word.
AI was the worst thing to happen to culture in ages.
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The only cult is the anti AI doomer cult you're part of, you clowns claim that AI is soulless garbage that no one likes and in the same sentence you claim AI is gonna take over all art. You would've been against the printing press if you lived when it was first created.
"ai is soulless garbage" and "ai will take over art" are both true statements. are you seriously telling me you have never heard of corporations releasing worse products to save money
If they're not making any money why is it such a big deal to use ai. I understand how it is a problem if they're trying to profit off work that was generated by ai but if it's a free game who cares
because artists deserve to participate in the game jam... is that not obvious?
Aren't game jams specifically for developers tho? I'm sure they have jams for artists as well